June 10, 2021 • 40 mins
Welcome back from a long holiday! Chef Andrea Drummer is the woman behind The Original Cannabis Cafe in West Hollywood, which is the first cafe in that city licensed to serve cannabis along with its menu. We’re going to talk to her about pioneering a new segment of the two industries, and how exactly one orchestrates pairings that feel more like ordering from a sommelier as opposed to a liquor store. We also talk to Senator Kim Jackson of Georgia, who was elected to the State Senate this year. She co-sponsored a bill to amend the state’s constitution to legalize recreational consumption, all under the larger mission of criminal justice reform. She helps to remind us that this is about way more than just enjoying a nice high with our burgers and nachos.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Citizen Chef is a production of I Heart Radio. You
can sell marijuana, you can sell edibles. Can you do infusions?
Or we couldn't do infusions. All edibles had to be prepackaged. God,
everything has to be prepackaged. How do you six? You
can because it's a measured dose, right. Yes, it sounds
to be pretty stramped like a normal restaurant, except you can, guy,
(00:22):
it was absolutely a normal setting. You know. It was
beautiful to be honest with you. Hey, everyone, welcome back
to Citizen Chef. Today's episode is so exciting because we
are talking about a new frontier in fine dining. Not
only does today's topic inspired creative new interpretations in the
(00:45):
restaurant and hospitality industry along with a totally different way
to experience your food with the side helping of social justice,
the pioneers in this field are making sure that there
are new pathways to capital, not just for the entrepreneurs,
but for all of those who have been wrong by
overregulation in the past. I am talking, of course, about cannabis,
and so today we get to talk to two of
(01:06):
those pioneers. Jeff Andrea Drummer is the woman behind the
original Cannabis cafe in West Hollywood, which is the first
cafe that to say license to serve cannabis along with
its menu. And we're going to talk to her about
the process of getting that license and the hurdles that
she had to jump through, and how exactly orchestrate pairings
so that I feel it's more like ordering from a
soma is opposed to a liquor store. We're also going
(01:28):
to talk to Senator Kim Jackson of Georgia, who was
elected to the state Senate this year. She co sponsored
the bill to a men the States Constitution to legalize
recreational consumption all under the larger mission of criminal justice reform.
She helps to remind us that this is about more
than just enjoying a nice buzz with our burgers and nachos.
So please join me as we get in the weeds.
(01:48):
U pun absolutely intended of cannabis and its new role
in the restaurant industry. Andrea, how you doing. I've got
so many questions to ask you. This is crazy. So
you may know New York State legalized cannabis and the
first thing that came to mind was they're allowing cafes.
(02:10):
I was like, I gotta figure how to get one
of these. This is like, gotta do this and call
them some people. You know, it's gonna take a few years.
I just kind of started kicking around and seeing what
was going on out there. And it was really funny
because I was shooting season seventeen of Top twelve in
Los Angeles, and looking back on it now, it dawned
at me that opening night I drove by. I looked
(02:32):
to my left and I was like, what is going
on there? What are they giving away at that place?
And I had no idea what it was. A few
days later I asked someone. They told me that, oh, yeah,
it's a canapis restaurant cafe that just opened up. So
I guess I was driving by opening day and and
so you know, it's one of these things where it
happens and you file it away, and then you know
two years later it's like, oh, that's what was, Yeah,
(02:54):
that's what that was. What is that thing that you're
doing there? This is a place where you can go
and unwind, smoker and jest, eat great food, have a coffee,
relaxed and just chill. And yet I guess it's a
hard path for this to happen. Yeah, so that the
first question like why did you want to do this?
And how long did it take it? What were the
hooks and licensees to jump through? I want to learn
(03:15):
all that, partly because I'm thinking of doing it. You
should as you should. Interestingly enough, some years ago I
did a consultancy with the James Nomad in Manhattan and
I got them through a CBD menu for an in
room dining experience, and it was going really well, and
(03:36):
that got shut down. And this was probably about three
or four years ago. Fast forward, and here we are
in West Hollywood, and what we did was lobby the
city of West Hollywood to you know, permit these licensings
for on site consumption. It was a wild go, but
they were very open for that experience for so many reasons,
including tourism, attraction and just you know, normalizing conversation about
(04:01):
cannabis consumption and thereby changing other laws. So we did that,
lobb beat them, and then once they agreed to do it,
there was a process of submitting application. There are only
eight licenses permitted. All those eight licenses, right, most of
them also offering a high end dining series. Yeah, already
(04:21):
these open already of these actually functioning right now beside yours.
Unfortunately none of them were able to come to bear
because of COVID. They were set to come online. I
was absolutely looking forward to it, as we all were.
Any entity participating in this. This thing is helpful to
the community. So hopefully we'll be able to see those
(04:41):
happened come through in the future. So you had to
jump through some hoops just to get open. You're allowed
to consume on premise, but she couldn't serve food and
alcohol where you're consuming, And how did you work around that?
It is absolutely work around being the operative words. So
we kind of had to split the cafe into two entities,
one being a food service component and the other being
(05:04):
essentially a dispensary. And the way that the cafe was
set up it worked out in our favor. I think
in the future as we delve into these conversations and
we get the right people having the conversations, yourself included
to understand one. You know, we were the first to
bring it to bear, and so no one really knew
what that looked like. And now that we have a
(05:26):
broader scope of what that should look like and how
to integrate it into just regular day to day life,
which is no different than ordering a bottle of wine.
I think we could very well communicate that and get
these policies and these ideals changed about you know, having
to separate the entities in etcetera, etcetera, because it's really
just an everyday experience. It's just life. So obviously you're
(05:51):
an advocate for cannabis. Were you always aving for cannabis?
Absolutely not? Okay, absolutely Sometimes I feel like epigrite, but
I like to ouch it under the guise of being reformed.
I was once a prevention counselor was the first part
of my career, and worked in on profit for many years.
And my whole spield was cannabis as the gateway drug
(06:12):
and therefore you should not consume. You will either end
up in prison or on skid rock. It was moving
to California and kind of educating myself and learning more
about cannabis and you know, not judging it is. Was
there one specific, Aham and it was a series of things.
At one point I worked for an advocate who was
(06:35):
an attorney and he was also a consumer and I thought, oh,
this this man is brilliant. We have great conversations. He's
going to court and winning his cases, so it can't
be that bad, right, And again there was the educational component,
understanding the propaganda and how myself I was used to
push that agenda, understanding how the war on drugs led
(06:58):
to mass incarceration, and so there was a paradigm shift there,
and so I was just kind of open and everything
was ripe. And then switching gears and getting into the
culinary industry and how that took a toll on my
body and deciding for myself to become a patient of
medical marijuana. Did you start advocating before you became a chef?
(07:20):
Where you were you advocating for cannabis rights? And when
I mean you touch a little bit on and car
sharrace rates for small fraction like marijuana. Was that something
that you were advocated for before you started cooking? Or
coincide in a small capacity, but more or less it
did coincide with the transition of careers again, going into
the culinary industry and having this having an impact on
(07:43):
my body and making the decision for myself to medicate
using medicinal cannabis and then understanding that you know, I
live in a state. That's twenty two plus years out
in legalization for medical marijuana, look no less and I
could still lose my livelihood, you know, And it did
make sense to me. So that's when the work began.
(08:06):
If you work for my friend Neil Frasier, is that right?
I did? I did? That was pretty phenomenal. How long
into your chef's career where you and this happened two
years in that about sciatica and I decided to go
the route of infusing food and in two thousand and
twelve that was That was a turn about for me
and I've been on my own since that. So many
(08:27):
people don't understand if legalized marijuana and there's there's greater access,
I mean, maybe you can get people off opiates. Oh,
absolutely absolutely. It's the absolute opposite of being the gateway drug.
Her listeners understand this. You can sell marijuana, you can
sell edibles, correct infusions? Can you do infusions? Or we
couldn't do infusions? All edibles had to be prepackaged. God,
(08:48):
everything has to be prepackaged. Um, so you couldn't use
like honey sticks and things like that as it honey sticks. Yes,
how do you thinks you can't because it's a measured dose, right, correct, Yeah,
got it. Now we know why. So to get into
how tell us more about the actual experience of visiting
the original cannabis cafe. It sounds to be pretty stramped
like a normal restaurant, except you can it was absolutely
(09:10):
a normal setting, you know, and it was Yeah, it
was beautiful, to be honest with you. It's an absolute
stunning just you know, a cafe that you would walk
into in any given city that just happens to have
cannabis and had, you know, a separate cannabis menu, and
when you got bud tenders, someone was bringing over buds
(09:32):
and and so there's a lot of it's education. You know,
whenever I go into a store, a part of so
much part of the experience is the education part of it. Absolutely,
it's more than here, take a bag and you know,
going your way. Yeah, for sure, absolutely. And one of
the exciting things for me was that we were creating
new industry under the umbrella of this cafe. And so
you know, our servers had to be versed as bud
(09:53):
tenders as well, and then they and they as well,
they had to learn to be efficient servers. So that
comes with a new understanding. But yeah, us they were
very efficient and understanding cannabis and had to relay this
to the guests. So you have to explain the dose city,
to explain the different strains and how it's going to affect. You,
understand the guests and their preferences and their tolerance level, etcetera. Right,
(10:18):
So this is all waiters is there responsibility just to again,
like you would sell a menu or sell a wine.
Understand th h levels, understand potency, Understand this is gonna
last long, This is gonna you know, you can get
sleepy from this one. This one's going to speech up.
You know all of that information absolutely when you go
in to a restaurant. He asked about the chicken, he
said poland exactly right, right, so you you can you
(10:40):
want to know, you know what what budger's looking, what
farmers from farmers from, how it sours, how it's grown outdoor, indoor,
organic or otherwise, how long the company has been in existence. Yeah,
all of those great things. And it's important for the
guests to fill a sense of comfort because this is
the first thing that's the first of it's kind. And
(11:00):
so someone who just got in from Kentucky or drove
in from the Bay Area. You know, they want to
have a sense of comfort and know that the servers
have their back and can explain in depth what the
experience maybe right, and so some of the other screens
where the offering seems a little i would say, pretentious,
just a little more trying to sell us upscale as
(11:23):
opposed to food that is cravable. You know, you get
cannabis induced cravings and you want to just you know,
you want food that is is yummy, delicious and comfortable,
but you certainly don't need a kind of crazy upscale,
fancy setting. And it sounds like that's where you're providing
a great experience that I think people want absolutely. You know,
I wanted to create a menu that was just great food,
(11:43):
cravable and complementary of the cannabis experience. So you know,
that's a lot of innovative as well. But you know,
we have vegan nachos, which was one of the most
popular menu items. You're great burgers, but you know, sourced
appropriately again match the experience of cannabis. You know, we
use local farmers, local growers, cannabis users take care about
(12:06):
the budget spores, but did you get a sense of
at a deeper level, they care about the environment, they
care about how their food has produced. Yeah. Absolutely, And
we're here in California, so you have a lot of
pures here with regards to their consumption of cannabis. And
we'll see how that planes out accross the nation because
we have had the freedom here in California to grow
(12:26):
and what one might say appropriately or freely, you know,
without harming the plant. So I think in due time
will have federal legalization where we could exchange product if
you will, and exactly, you know, it makes sense to me.
This is this is part of the farm to table
movement when when you think about it, right, oh, absolutely,
(12:47):
I can't imagine living in a state where we don't
have that level of legalization and that freedom to grow
and source appropriately. And a great part of my work
is to see that happen on a global scale. So
you're certainly not the only one. And just a little
bit we'll talk to a senator working to make that
(13:08):
reality for many people who are not lucky enough to
live in a state like California. But first I have
a few more questions for Chef Andrea about what it's
like to be both an advocate and a chef. Also,
if you already have the munchies, don't worry. We're going
to dig it to the food as well. We'll be
back with more citizen chefs. Welcome back. You're listening to
Citizen Chef and I'm Tom Collikio, and we are talking
(13:30):
about cannabis regulation in restaurants. Would work are in California
doing our are on a federal level right now in
terms of lobbying local governments federal governments. Are you working
on that as those issues as well? We have been
We've tried. You know, when I first got into the industry,
part of my work was aligning with Drug Policy Alliance
(13:51):
and getting Top six before passed. We're still making a
stink unfortunately, you know, we're you know, at the home
of an administration that you know, spoke about legalization federally
on a federal level, but I have not really addressed
the issues or kind of skirted around it. So I
don't know that we still have to continue to make
(14:11):
noise and more people that we get involved in these
conversations and to lobby in every city, in every place.
I think the more movement, more traction we can make.
I think it's coming. I mean, I think you can't
ignore it. No, absolutely not. No, I mean I love it.
John Bayner, who was the Speaker of the House, who
was dead set against it, is now on the board
of a cannabis company, and uh so, yeah, it's you
(14:35):
can feel different ways about these things, you know, especially
as a as a black woman in this industry. But
you know, all of it is good movement. And when
I when I started out, I was called crazy that
I even considered that there could be a cannabis cafe
or restaurant. The more we keep up and be more
vocal about it and link arms in this movement of
(14:59):
globally regalization and not just here in this country. But
you know, the two thousand nineteen we opened the cannabis cafe,
the first of its kind, so it could happen, and
I have hoped that it will. Yeah. So it's interesting
though it sounds like what you're actually asking for could
make it where your business isn't as unique anymore. If
(15:19):
you're able to smoke openly, you could just step out
out of any restaurant and you know, take your hits
and go back and tide. If it's that normalized, that
normalized means prison reform, that normalized means expungement for people,
the true pioneers of this industry, So that all of
that is important and right, that's all part of it.
(15:40):
It's right. So your advocacy obviously goes a lot deeper
than just making sure a few restaurants can current administration
has talked about it, although you know President By didn't
run on it when asked, it was opposed, but it
wasn't part of his platform. Do you think we have
to wait till maybe President Harris are than sort of
(16:00):
the next Democrat possibly, or do you think you can
possibly get federal adaptation this administration? When this administration was
ushered in, I was hopeful. Conversely, some of the conversations
I've heard around it is kind of back pedaled or
or to say that we're going to set this aside
for an hour. We're unable to address this thing. I
(16:21):
think it may take the next Democratic administration. I don't know.
Hopefully there's a turn about that's not going to stop
anyone who's who's making noise and who's doing the work.
So you know, it sounds like the legalization of candadis
on a federal level just needs to be more probably
won't be a single voter issue, but it's got to
be higher up there. Yes, absolutely, Yeah, I think you're
(16:44):
going about the right way where economic comparative, there's also
again the the justice, the social justice issue around what
you're fighting for, which seems to be even probably more
important than the actual cafe itself. Yes, in the restaurant,
is there literature about what you're doing on the other
side of it? Are you building out the community of
full legalization in the restaurant? Is that part of the mission?
(17:05):
You know, when we first started this and initiate our application,
all of those things were written into that, right, But
the reality is, you know, when you get into the
restaurant es you got to figure out a lot of things,
you know, especially especially the last year exactly. But I
think now that we kind of got a handle on
(17:27):
what it looks like, and I think there could absolutely
be a focus on these very specific details, you know.
I know one of our goals was hired some you know,
people that had their records expunge or that we're re
entering the space with non violent cannabis in fractions, if
you will, so a lot of things that can be done.
(17:48):
We just have to figure out, you know we I mean,
we were talking about systems of how to order, so
how to order food versus cannabis, and how to you know,
you know, maintain the letter of the law. So the
crazy stuff. You have to do a lot of workarounds.
We were, we were creative. We were like building doors,
closing doors, closing entrances, you have to go outside to
(18:10):
go to the restauranom. Yeah, it's a lot of it was.
There was a lot of things. But again, you know,
we've been in the in the mix, in the thick up,
so there's a greater understanding. And I also believe like
the city of West Hollywood, being able to come there
and see what it looks like and you're not like,
you know, envisioning or imagining this thing in your head
(18:31):
or thinking that there are people spilling out of the
building high and fighting. And we had zero physical or
violent incidents. That's a tame night in West Hollywood. Open
a bar and and and stake that claim. Let me
know how it goes, right. I drove by almost every day,
the cool thing, but I kept saying, please, just looks great.
I want to go in there, and you know that
(18:51):
was working most nights, so I didn't get a chance,
but I wish you had next time. I am in California,
which I'm not sure I have a restaurant. I haven't
been in a while because of COVID, but I will
definitely check it out. I want to check out the food.
Tell me about food. Tell me what are you what
are you doing there? I mean I saw some of
the menu. You talked about Vigano to talk about burgers,
but what other credible items are there? I mean, what
(19:12):
could people expect when they go into the restaurant. Just
so our listeners can understand what they're in for when
they go to it's now called the Original Cannabis Cafe.
One of the draws was absolutely the brunch menu, port
billion grits and chuck shuka, you know, some of some
of the fun menu items. The go to a lot
of shared plates, so it made it was a good time.
It's a great time to be creative and to think
(19:35):
about the farm to table on both aspects. You know,
it was a kind of a separate you know, you know,
we had the kitchen going and then you had the
Cannabis experience, but to collaborate with the front of the
house and do pairings as well. So we of course
couldn't infuse the food, but I could take a menu
item and pair it with a new product that was
(19:56):
coming out of the dispensary and explain why that pairing
works by the flavor profiles and the turpenes. All right,
so let's get back into food. Who are some of
your culinary heroes when you were in school or thinking
about cooking, Who who did you look up to? You know,
I have to say, for very reasons Grant Ackets hearing
(20:16):
his story about tongue cancer and having to use all
of your senses to cook. I think that kind of
gets lost, you know, especially when you're culinary school or
taste everything, taste everything, and sometimes you know, you get
in the weeds. Maybe you can't, but for me having
to really um and at one point there was like
(20:36):
a two year period that I was completely vegan. But
I'm cooking for constituents that ate lots of meat and
so having to put that into practice. But just being
so in tune with all of your senses when you cook,
I think is so important and sometimes get lost with us. Yeah,
I was talking about using your sense of hearing. Oh yeah,
listening to this all you know, you can tell if
(20:57):
something's cooking too hard, too fast, if it's doin too
hard too fast. And I teach class I often talk
about it. Yeah. Absolutely, So what's next? Do you see
another cafe? Can you do multiple cafes and they're more
licenses or granted? I mean, do you see going out
of California if you can in doing more in other states?
So what's the future for you. One of the things
that that we were able to do is lobby. The
(21:17):
city was Hollywood. I think there are other cities, other
places that would be interested in in hearing about these ideals.
And prior to COVID, I was in communication with one
of those cities, Palm Springs, and they were interested in
bringing something to bear. I see a limitations on where
this could go. In fact, what we were looking to
(21:38):
do is open one of the first cannabis inspired hotels,
Boutique Hotel, and I still want to see that come
to bear. But COVID hit and investors got a little skittish, understandable,
But I don't I don't see any uh, I don't
see any limitations. I and I've always said this from
two thousand and twelve when I got in industry. I
(21:58):
see cafes, I see restaurants, see spas, hotels, destination experiences.
There was one of the entities are supposed to be
like a gaming experience. I think it for as much
as you could create or envision it could have happened.
Anything outside of cannabis can happen under the umbrella. I mean,
what you're talking about is is a lot of these experiences,
(22:19):
whether it's spa or whether it's gaming, it can be
enhanced by by the experience. Absolutely, it's not just an adjunct.
It's not sort of, well, you have the experience, we're
going to a spa and then you know you can
get high to No, it's actually part of the experience. Yeah,
do you have any recommendations for other chefs that are
are looking to do this as a sort of state
(22:40):
by state you've got to just figure it out. Of course,
it's state by state. But first and foremost, you know,
be an advocate, lobby understand just as any chef has
to understand the product and how to source it and
what it means to the experience, what it means to
have on site consumption, what what what it's going to
mean to the city. So be versed in that, go
(23:01):
to the things and and lobby and advocate for what
you want to see to come to bear in your city,
and then just be bold enough to execute PRIs. I
mean listen here, I am like a am near middle
aged black woman having a conversation with Tom Collikio. So
(23:22):
who's an older white dude. You know, I think we
leave it at that. It's it's been great talking to you.
And instead, if I'm in California, I'll definitely come and
look you up. And uh, I would love to try
your food, either stone or not. But this is a
(23:43):
braving world and it's just you know, to me, it's
fascinating who actually is the first mover here? Um and
how it happened because it's not gonna be the last
day we're gonna see cafes and I agree with you,
I think they'll they'll be a time when this is
normalized and you know, part of the just part of
the scenery and part of the experience. Um So, but
it's it's great too. It's great to be able to
talk to the pioneer Ya. Thank you so much. Thank
(24:06):
you for having me. Now that we have a sense
of what it takes to be bold enough to make
waves in the cannabis industry, we're gonna come right back
with another pioneer working to make the same type of change,
but in a different arena. Stick with us. Chief Drummer
is such a pioneer in her field. But one thing
that was so evident in both our research and in
our conversation with her is that reforming the regulation of
(24:29):
cannabis is such a larger issue than just allowing it
into restaurants. This is especially true when you look at
it from a national perspective, since it's not been legal
as on a federal level yet. So we wanted to
speak to someone on the front lines of fighting for
reform in a state where marijuana is still illegal. We
are so lucky to get to talk to Senator Kim Jackson,
who was elected to the States Senate this year, and
(24:51):
one of her first acts was co sponsoring a resolution
paving the way to decriminalize cannabis. She's also been working
on the Agriculture and Consumer Affairs committe to work on
the state's practices surrounding him, and is just an all
around great person to talk to you about the bigger
picture when it comes to cannabis. Hi, We're thrilled to
have you. You're already doing so much for the great
(25:11):
state of Georgia, and I cannot wait to hear more
about why the legalization of cannabis is so important to
your platform. You can tell us a bit about yourself
and your remarkable career even outside of being a state center,
I serve Stone Mountain, Clarkson and Tucker in Georgia really
great places for those of you who may not be
from around these parts. When I'm not working as a Senator,
which is kind of always, I also am an episcopal priest,
(25:35):
and I have the great privilege of serving a congregation
of people who are currently experiencing homelessness in downtown Atlanta.
So when it comes to this topic of cannabis, I
have a number of reasons why I'm deeply passionate and
care about it. But one of the first reasons is
because the people who attend my church have often found
themselves caught up in a criminal justice system that quite
(25:57):
frankly was in just particularly when it pertains to their
use of cannabis. Jackson cites her own work as a
priest as the key component in shaping the way she
approaches cannabis. In particular, she notes the benefit of the
plant for her constituents experiencing homelessness. My prissioners sleep outside.
Many of them are folks who have been trying to
(26:19):
find a way to kind of make it through really
difficult times in life, and they do things to survive.
They do things also to just relax and find themselves
just some peace, and quite frankly, marijuana has been one
of those sources of relaxation and peace when you're living
in survival mode. Just being able to kind of sit
back and relax and chill with some folks has been
(26:40):
really helpful. And uh, and so I recognize that as
a recreational analysists in some ways as a source of
kind of soothing their souls in the midst of a
really deeply difficult time in their lives. And so that's
been a part of my own story of just watching
and being in relationship with these folks who live outside,
and as a past that's part of my job too,
(27:01):
is to help soothe their soul, right, Like, that's really
really part of my work. But I also recognize that
they use cannabis for recreational purposes and for some soul healing.
But also you know, I serve a district of people
who lived just outside of Metro Atlanta. We are a
majority African American district. The average age is only thirty
two in my district. So we are young, and we
(27:24):
are people of color, and so we enjoy finding ways
to recreate with one another. So you're arguing about cannabis
soothing the soul makes so much sense to me. Cannabis
is definitely not the first tool people think of when
they think of the work as a as a senator
and a priest. But how do you reconcile people the
view of the scripture and your own interpretation, and how
(27:44):
does cannabis play into that. Yeah, So I like to
remind people that the very first miracle that we have
recorded of Jesus is that he goes to a party
and he turns water into wine so that they can
continue their party. For me, that is an incredible lesson
and metaphor for the value of a party and the
value of having some enhanced substances that helped to enjoy
(28:08):
that party. Right, And I know some people will listen
to this and sound like, Hey, this sounds like heresy,
but I think that there's real legit evidence within scripture
that talks about the use of natural substances, right, Like
cannabis is a naturally occurring substance that God helped create. Right.
And also, I'm really clear, and this is some of
the work that I do with my parishioners is to
(28:30):
talk about you know, God calls us to live a
life of moderation and all things in moderation, right, And
so I think that there's really great theological grounding for
us being in that place. And and certainly if we
look beyond kind of the traditional Christian religion, there are other, many,
many examples of the use of psychedelics to help enhance
(28:50):
people's spiritual experiences. You know, mushrooms like those are those
are coming to the world of cooking light. Let's be clear,
there's so so many tragedy sational religions across this this
country and across the world that have used mushrooms in
particular to enhance their relationship with the spirit in the
spirit world. So cannabis has never adjument about recreation. It's
(29:14):
not just about recreation or relaxation. It's also about healing,
and I would make the argument as a pastor in
the priest that that healing is not just physical, but
there is a way in which we're able to connect
spiritually in a deeper way, and that that has some
spiritual healing aspects to it as well. Restaurants do they
have a role in fighting the stigma against cannabis. One
(29:35):
of the reasons why I think that having cannabis and
restaurants is important is because it helps us in this
process of destigmatizing the use of cannabis. So think about it.
You go to a nice restaurant anywhere, and they're going
to offer you wine to go with your meal because
they understand that wine helps enhance the experience the flavors.
(29:57):
You know. There there's all kinds of thought senses, And
I'm not a chef, but I do know that there
are people who think very intentionally about the pairing of
a wine with a particular pasta, a particular meat, and
the same thing could be true and should be true
as it relates to marijuana and how it's infused in
different foods. Uh So, I imagine a world where you
(30:18):
go to a nice restaurant and you're offered wine, but
you're also offered cannabis because that's a part of the
process of enhancing the experience of the food, and it
ultimately will do this work of helping to destigmatize the
use of cannabis as a general use that people participate in.
And so one of my goals with this podcast is
(30:38):
to address the stigma that comes along with cannabis, especially
as we discussed the potential benefits of the plant. You know,
you mentioned the hurdle that you're facing in Georgia. So
I was wondering if you could tell us a bit
more about why these thigmas are in place and your
goals with the bill that you preferred back in February.
S R one six five was written by Shake Rahman.
He is a state senator here. He's actually the only
(31:01):
Muslim state senator here in Georgia. And so s R
one simply creates a pathway for us to begin the
process of decriminalizing marijuana. It's a resolution, so it wouldn't
be a law, but it lays out the legal pathway
for us to move in that direction. Now, again, we
live in a very red state right now in terms
(31:22):
of who's in power and because of the great stigma
both religious and I think social and racist stigma connected
to it. We don't believe that s R one sixty
five will move, but it is a really clear signal
to people that that's the direction that we that shake
Raman and that I am moving in and I believe
that we as a party, as Senate Democrats, are moving towards.
(31:45):
Is the process of decriminalizing marijuana. Is this industry that
literally starts to grow and it quits so many people
who ended up incarcerated because if a marijuana charge. The
irony would be that they're left out of the marijuana business,
and not even that they're getting a license to grow,
but that they're allowed to work either in the dispensary,
are working on a farm, are working in the marketing
(32:06):
of cannabis, being in the cannabis industry, and the irony
that's that's someone who lost the ability to work because
of a cannabis charge can't work in the cannabis industry.
It doesn't make sense to me. Right. So, Georgia's laws
around prohibiting people who have felonies from growing hemp, those
are Georgia's specific laws, but the federal regulations also limit
(32:27):
if you have a felony drug conviction, you cannot get
a license to grow hemp for the ten years after
you finish your sentence. So even on our federal level,
so I want to encourage people wherever you are in
this nation to check your local laws and your federal laws.
We are actively discriminating against people who simply want to
put their hands in the dirt and grow something that's useful, right,
(32:50):
grow something that is helpful in healing to our souls,
and we are saying, no, you can't do it if
you have a felony drug convictions and it's less than
ten you since you've had that felony joke condition, I
want to just name you. Know, you asked about stigma
associated with cannabis, and the reality is it's all rooted
in racism. And we have a long trajectory here in
(33:13):
the United States. If any time we find a people
group that is using a substance that is different from
what the majority white culture has been using, it suddenly
becomes illegal. And that is what has happened with marijuana.
And so until we really confront our racist past and
the racism that is rooted in these practices, we're not
going to be able to overcome them. And I can
(33:35):
give you a great example of what that looks like
here in Georgia. So I'm sitting on the Agriculture committee
here in Georgia on the Georgia Senate, and we were
reviewing our practices for growing cannabis in the hemp form,
and we restrict people in Georgia. If you are a
convicted felon for any felony, you cannot grow hemp in Georgia.
(33:58):
You cannot receive a license. And I asked during committee,
I said, you know, if I wanted to grow corn,
can I be a convicted felon? Yes, of course, if
I wanted to grow tomatoes, is it okay if I
have a felony on my record? Sure? And hemp, let's
all be clear. Hemp is not something that you can
get high from. And I's like, so, hemp is not
(34:18):
something you can get high from. But you're still telling
me that if I'm a convicted felon, I cannot grow hemp.
And the answer was yes, because it's too close to
the drug. Right. So that's the kind of built in
racism and stigma that we have even in hemp farming,
and I'll tell you the amount of like somersaults that
(34:42):
we do in Georgia to make sure that our hemp
producers are not producing hemp that has higher levels of
th HC. They're extraordinary because it's almost like we have
this great fear and in fact that a former Georgia
Agriculture commissioner used to refer to hemp as the of
all lettuce. So not only is racism kind of build
(35:03):
into this, there's also some real interesting religion and theological
understandings around what marijuana is about that's also being built
into why currently there's just great stigma around the use
of and the growing of cannabis. As we conclude this episode,
New York State has just legalized recreational use for marijuana.
(35:24):
In the law, there is space for restaurants and cafes,
and obviously in New York State is still trying to
figure out how that's all going to work. I'm hoping
that obviously that when these licenses are given out, that
they're keeping people who have been incarcerated for minor marijuana
violations and hopefully that those some fractions are going to
be held against them when it comes time to issuing
(35:46):
those licenses because I think people who parts their years
of their lives were taken away, especially under a three
strike rule or some something like that, where at least
they could benefit from new regulations because they were put
in jail for maybe you know, having possessed of a
small amount of marijuana and that you know, they ended
up in jail, and hopefully when these regulations change, hopefully
they can benefit from from that. Right, So, I will
(36:08):
say so I am deeply passionate about issues of criminal
justice reform and in decarceration of people, the ending of
mass incarceration. It's one of the platforms that I ran
on and before I even became an elected official, that
was the activism that I engaged with. And what we
know is that there are literally thousands, thousands of in
(36:29):
particularly black men, but black women are not you know,
precluded from this as well. But there are thousands and
thousands of black folks who were sitting in our prisons
today because of silly little convictions over the possession of cannabis.
And it's often even small amounts of cannabis. And so
part of this work of decriminalizing and de stigmatizing the
(36:52):
use of cannabis is about helping to set people free.
I will say one of the things that I feel
very much called to in my life is about helping
set people free. Uh. And so if we can decriminalize cannabis,
then we can get people out of prison and they
can move forward with their lives and more in ways
that our whole and healthy. I would go further to
say that when we decriminalize cannabis, it will open us
(37:16):
up to beginning to explore and to think more critically
about how we do criminal justice as it relates to
drug uses in general. I am of a school of
thought that believes that people who are addicted to drugs
need treatment, not prison. They need treatment not jail. I
believe that if we can do this work of thinking
critically about cannabis, then we can also begin the work
(37:38):
of thinking importantly and critically about how we do drug
treatment broadly and move folks from prison to treatment to freedom. So,
if you're sitting there wishing you knew how you could
help address some of these issues and your local jurisdictions,
the Centator had some suggestions and what you can do
on a national level as well. So I want to
encourage folks as they are doing the work of serving
(38:00):
advocates and activists around the legalization of cannabis, and lawmakers
in particular to give special attention to making sure that
we build in equality into the process of being able
to farm for cannabis. So when I talk about issues
of restricting people from being able to grow cannabis because
they have a felony like that is a form of
(38:20):
systemic racism and we have to avoid that. I will
say that in all of our talks about policy here
in Georgia, for whether it's growing hemp or medical marijuana
or hopefully ultimately legalized cannabis, our goal is to make
sure that we write into it provisions to ensure that
black farmers have access to that work. That's really really important,
(38:42):
and we can't do it accidentally. What we know about
these United States, particularly when it comes to introducing kind
of new revenues for people to enter into, whether it's
licensed to be able to sell alcohol or a license
to be able to grow cannabis, unless we intentionally say
that their provisions to make sure that minority farmers, black
(39:04):
farmers in particular get to have access to those then
accidentally on purpose, because racism is built into the system,
it'll all be white farmers and we can't have that right.
And so yes, here's the reality. Black folks have been
selling marijuana and making their life work through the selling
(39:25):
of marijuana on you know, kind of underground, and when
we legalize it, we have to be careful to not
undermine those folks who have made their livelihood from selling
it underground. So we need to make sure we have
access and avenues for folks who've been selling it currently,
who are working is what we kind of colloquially called
street pharmacists, making sure that they have safe avenues into
(39:47):
the practice of continuing to be able to sell that
product in a way that's legal and that supports their livelihood.
Thanks again to both Chef Andrew Drummer and Senator Kim
Jackson for joining us. I have a feeling this will
not be the last time we discussed the intersection of
cannabis and food. You know, I get excited about any
(40:07):
new innovation in the fool world, but it means even
more when it's so closely is tied to justice for
so many. Let's hope that the original Cannabis Cafe is
just the beginning of a new wave of cannabis experiences,
and with legislators like Senator Jackson, I have no doubt
we'll start to see things change. Citizen Chef is executive
produced by Christopher howse Yodas, produced by Gabby Collins, and
(40:29):
researched by the Lilian Pullman. Citizen Chef is a production
of Piheart Radio. For more podcasts, visit the I heart
Radio app. Apple podcasts are anywhere you subscribe to podcasts.
Citizen Chef is a production of I Heart Radio. You
can sell marijuana, you can sell edibles. Can you do infusions?
Or we couldn't do infusions. All edibles had to be prepackaged. God,
everything has to be prepackaged. How do you six? You
can because it's a measured dose, right. Yes, it sounds
to be pretty stramped like a normal restaurant, except you can, guy,
(00:22):
it was absolutely a normal setting. You know. It was
beautiful to be honest with you. Hey, everyone, welcome back
to Citizen Chef. Today's episode is so exciting because we
are talking about a new frontier in fine dining. Not
only does today's topic inspired creative new interpretations in the
(00:45):
restaurant and hospitality industry along with a totally different way
to experience your food with the side helping of social justice,
the pioneers in this field are making sure that there
are new pathways to capital, not just for the entrepreneurs,
but for all of those who have been wrong by
overregulation in the past. I am talking, of course, about cannabis,
and so today we get to talk to two of
(01:06):
those pioneers. Jeff Andrea Drummer is the woman behind the
original Cannabis cafe in West Hollywood, which is the first
cafe that to say license to serve cannabis along with
its menu. And we're going to talk to her about
the process of getting that license and the hurdles that
she had to jump through, and how exactly orchestrate pairings
so that I feel it's more like ordering from a
soma is opposed to a liquor store. We're also going
(01:28):
to talk to Senator Kim Jackson of Georgia, who was
elected to the state Senate this year. She co sponsored
the bill to a men the States Constitution to legalize
recreational consumption all under the larger mission of criminal justice reform.
She helps to remind us that this is about more
than just enjoying a nice buzz with our burgers and nachos.
So please join me as we get in the weeds.
(01:48):
U pun absolutely intended of cannabis and its new role
in the restaurant industry. Andrea, how you doing. I've got
so many questions to ask you. This is crazy. So
you may know New York State legalized cannabis and the
first thing that came to mind was they're allowing cafes.
(02:10):
I was like, I gotta figure how to get one
of these. This is like, gotta do this and call
them some people. You know, it's gonna take a few years.
I just kind of started kicking around and seeing what
was going on out there. And it was really funny
because I was shooting season seventeen of Top twelve in
Los Angeles, and looking back on it now, it dawned
at me that opening night I drove by. I looked
(02:32):
to my left and I was like, what is going
on there? What are they giving away at that place?
And I had no idea what it was. A few
days later I asked someone. They told me that, oh, yeah,
it's a canapis restaurant cafe that just opened up. So
I guess I was driving by opening day and and
so you know, it's one of these things where it
happens and you file it away, and then you know
two years later it's like, oh, that's what was, Yeah,
(02:54):
that's what that was. What is that thing that you're
doing there? This is a place where you can go
and unwind, smoker and jest, eat great food, have a coffee,
relaxed and just chill. And yet I guess it's a
hard path for this to happen. Yeah, so that the
first question like why did you want to do this?
And how long did it take it? What were the
hooks and licensees to jump through? I want to learn
(03:15):
all that, partly because I'm thinking of doing it. You
should as you should. Interestingly enough, some years ago I
did a consultancy with the James Nomad in Manhattan and
I got them through a CBD menu for an in
room dining experience, and it was going really well, and
(03:36):
that got shut down. And this was probably about three
or four years ago. Fast forward, and here we are
in West Hollywood, and what we did was lobby the
city of West Hollywood to you know, permit these licensings
for on site consumption. It was a wild go, but
they were very open for that experience for so many reasons,
including tourism, attraction and just you know, normalizing conversation about
(04:01):
cannabis consumption and thereby changing other laws. So we did that,
lobb beat them, and then once they agreed to do it,
there was a process of submitting application. There are only
eight licenses permitted. All those eight licenses, right, most of
them also offering a high end dining series. Yeah, already
(04:21):
these open already of these actually functioning right now beside yours.
Unfortunately none of them were able to come to bear
because of COVID. They were set to come online. I
was absolutely looking forward to it, as we all were.
Any entity participating in this. This thing is helpful to
the community. So hopefully we'll be able to see those
(04:41):
happened come through in the future. So you had to
jump through some hoops just to get open. You're allowed
to consume on premise, but she couldn't serve food and
alcohol where you're consuming, And how did you work around that?
It is absolutely work around being the operative words. So
we kind of had to split the cafe into two entities,
one being a food service component and the other being
(05:04):
essentially a dispensary. And the way that the cafe was
set up it worked out in our favor. I think
in the future as we delve into these conversations and
we get the right people having the conversations, yourself included
to understand one. You know, we were the first to
bring it to bear, and so no one really knew
what that looked like. And now that we have a
(05:26):
broader scope of what that should look like and how
to integrate it into just regular day to day life,
which is no different than ordering a bottle of wine.
I think we could very well communicate that and get
these policies and these ideals changed about you know, having
to separate the entities in etcetera, etcetera, because it's really
just an everyday experience. It's just life. So obviously you're
(05:51):
an advocate for cannabis. Were you always aving for cannabis?
Absolutely not? Okay, absolutely Sometimes I feel like epigrite, but
I like to ouch it under the guise of being reformed.
I was once a prevention counselor was the first part
of my career, and worked in on profit for many years.
And my whole spield was cannabis as the gateway drug
(06:12):
and therefore you should not consume. You will either end
up in prison or on skid rock. It was moving
to California and kind of educating myself and learning more
about cannabis and you know, not judging it is. Was
there one specific, Aham and it was a series of things.
At one point I worked for an advocate who was
(06:35):
an attorney and he was also a consumer and I thought, oh,
this this man is brilliant. We have great conversations. He's
going to court and winning his cases, so it can't
be that bad, right, And again there was the educational component,
understanding the propaganda and how myself I was used to
push that agenda, understanding how the war on drugs led
(06:58):
to mass incarceration, and so there was a paradigm shift there,
and so I was just kind of open and everything
was ripe. And then switching gears and getting into the
culinary industry and how that took a toll on my
body and deciding for myself to become a patient of
medical marijuana. Did you start advocating before you became a chef?
(07:20):
Where you were you advocating for cannabis rights? And when
I mean you touch a little bit on and car
sharrace rates for small fraction like marijuana. Was that something
that you were advocated for before you started cooking? Or
coincide in a small capacity, but more or less it
did coincide with the transition of careers again, going into
the culinary industry and having this having an impact on
(07:43):
my body and making the decision for myself to medicate
using medicinal cannabis and then understanding that you know, I
live in a state. That's twenty two plus years out
in legalization for medical marijuana, look no less and I
could still lose my livelihood, you know, And it did
make sense to me. So that's when the work began.
(08:06):
If you work for my friend Neil Frasier, is that right?
I did? I did? That was pretty phenomenal. How long
into your chef's career where you and this happened two
years in that about sciatica and I decided to go
the route of infusing food and in two thousand and
twelve that was That was a turn about for me
and I've been on my own since that. So many
(08:27):
people don't understand if legalized marijuana and there's there's greater access,
I mean, maybe you can get people off opiates. Oh,
absolutely absolutely. It's the absolute opposite of being the gateway drug.
Her listeners understand this. You can sell marijuana, you can
sell edibles, correct infusions? Can you do infusions? Or we
couldn't do infusions? All edibles had to be prepackaged. God,
(08:48):
everything has to be prepackaged. Um, so you couldn't use
like honey sticks and things like that as it honey sticks. Yes,
how do you thinks you can't because it's a measured dose, right, correct, Yeah,
got it. Now we know why. So to get into
how tell us more about the actual experience of visiting
the original cannabis cafe. It sounds to be pretty stramped
like a normal restaurant, except you can it was absolutely
(09:10):
a normal setting, you know, and it was Yeah, it
was beautiful, to be honest with you. It's an absolute
stunning just you know, a cafe that you would walk
into in any given city that just happens to have
cannabis and had, you know, a separate cannabis menu, and
when you got bud tenders, someone was bringing over buds
(09:32):
and and so there's a lot of it's education. You know,
whenever I go into a store, a part of so
much part of the experience is the education part of it. Absolutely,
it's more than here, take a bag and you know,
going your way. Yeah, for sure, absolutely. And one of
the exciting things for me was that we were creating
new industry under the umbrella of this cafe. And so
you know, our servers had to be versed as bud
(09:53):
tenders as well, and then they and they as well,
they had to learn to be efficient servers. So that
comes with a new understanding. But yeah, us they were
very efficient and understanding cannabis and had to relay this
to the guests. So you have to explain the dose city,
to explain the different strains and how it's going to affect. You,
understand the guests and their preferences and their tolerance level, etcetera. Right,
(10:18):
So this is all waiters is there responsibility just to again,
like you would sell a menu or sell a wine.
Understand th h levels, understand potency, Understand this is gonna
last long, This is gonna you know, you can get
sleepy from this one. This one's going to speech up.
You know all of that information absolutely when you go
in to a restaurant. He asked about the chicken, he
said poland exactly right, right, so you you can you
(10:40):
want to know, you know what what budger's looking, what
farmers from farmers from, how it sours, how it's grown outdoor, indoor,
organic or otherwise, how long the company has been in existence. Yeah,
all of those great things. And it's important for the
guests to fill a sense of comfort because this is
the first thing that's the first of it's kind. And
(11:00):
so someone who just got in from Kentucky or drove
in from the Bay Area. You know, they want to
have a sense of comfort and know that the servers
have their back and can explain in depth what the
experience maybe right, and so some of the other screens
where the offering seems a little i would say, pretentious,
just a little more trying to sell us upscale as
(11:23):
opposed to food that is cravable. You know, you get
cannabis induced cravings and you want to just you know,
you want food that is is yummy, delicious and comfortable,
but you certainly don't need a kind of crazy upscale,
fancy setting. And it sounds like that's where you're providing
a great experience that I think people want absolutely. You know,
I wanted to create a menu that was just great food,
(11:43):
cravable and complementary of the cannabis experience. So you know,
that's a lot of innovative as well. But you know,
we have vegan nachos, which was one of the most
popular menu items. You're great burgers, but you know, sourced
appropriately again match the experience of cannabis. You know, we
use local farmers, local growers, cannabis users take care about
(12:06):
the budget spores, but did you get a sense of
at a deeper level, they care about the environment, they
care about how their food has produced. Yeah. Absolutely, And
we're here in California, so you have a lot of
pures here with regards to their consumption of cannabis. And
we'll see how that planes out accross the nation because
we have had the freedom here in California to grow
(12:26):
and what one might say appropriately or freely, you know,
without harming the plant. So I think in due time
will have federal legalization where we could exchange product if
you will, and exactly, you know, it makes sense to me.
This is this is part of the farm to table
movement when when you think about it, right, oh, absolutely,
(12:47):
I can't imagine living in a state where we don't
have that level of legalization and that freedom to grow
and source appropriately. And a great part of my work
is to see that happen on a global scale. So
you're certainly not the only one. And just a little
bit we'll talk to a senator working to make that
(13:08):
reality for many people who are not lucky enough to
live in a state like California. But first I have
a few more questions for Chef Andrea about what it's
like to be both an advocate and a chef. Also,
if you already have the munchies, don't worry. We're going
to dig it to the food as well. We'll be
back with more citizen chefs. Welcome back. You're listening to
Citizen Chef and I'm Tom Collikio, and we are talking
(13:30):
about cannabis regulation in restaurants. Would work are in California
doing our are on a federal level right now in
terms of lobbying local governments federal governments. Are you working
on that as those issues as well? We have been
We've tried. You know, when I first got into the industry,
part of my work was aligning with Drug Policy Alliance
(13:51):
and getting Top six before passed. We're still making a
stink unfortunately, you know, we're you know, at the home
of an administration that you know, spoke about legalization federally
on a federal level, but I have not really addressed
the issues or kind of skirted around it. So I
don't know that we still have to continue to make
(14:11):
noise and more people that we get involved in these
conversations and to lobby in every city, in every place.
I think the more movement, more traction we can make.
I think it's coming. I mean, I think you can't
ignore it. No, absolutely not. No, I mean I love it.
John Bayner, who was the Speaker of the House, who
was dead set against it, is now on the board
of a cannabis company, and uh so, yeah, it's you
(14:35):
can feel different ways about these things, you know, especially
as a as a black woman in this industry. But
you know, all of it is good movement. And when
I when I started out, I was called crazy that
I even considered that there could be a cannabis cafe
or restaurant. The more we keep up and be more
vocal about it and link arms in this movement of
(14:59):
globally regalization and not just here in this country. But
you know, the two thousand nineteen we opened the cannabis cafe,
the first of its kind, so it could happen, and
I have hoped that it will. Yeah. So it's interesting
though it sounds like what you're actually asking for could
make it where your business isn't as unique anymore. If
(15:19):
you're able to smoke openly, you could just step out
out of any restaurant and you know, take your hits
and go back and tide. If it's that normalized, that
normalized means prison reform, that normalized means expungement for people,
the true pioneers of this industry, So that all of
that is important and right, that's all part of it.
(15:40):
It's right. So your advocacy obviously goes a lot deeper
than just making sure a few restaurants can current administration
has talked about it, although you know President By didn't
run on it when asked, it was opposed, but it
wasn't part of his platform. Do you think we have
to wait till maybe President Harris are than sort of
(16:00):
the next Democrat possibly, or do you think you can
possibly get federal adaptation this administration? When this administration was
ushered in, I was hopeful. Conversely, some of the conversations
I've heard around it is kind of back pedaled or
or to say that we're going to set this aside
for an hour. We're unable to address this thing. I
(16:21):
think it may take the next Democratic administration. I don't know.
Hopefully there's a turn about that's not going to stop
anyone who's who's making noise and who's doing the work.
So you know, it sounds like the legalization of candadis
on a federal level just needs to be more probably
won't be a single voter issue, but it's got to
be higher up there. Yes, absolutely, Yeah, I think you're
(16:44):
going about the right way where economic comparative, there's also
again the the justice, the social justice issue around what
you're fighting for, which seems to be even probably more
important than the actual cafe itself. Yes, in the restaurant,
is there literature about what you're doing on the other
side of it? Are you building out the community of
full legalization in the restaurant? Is that part of the mission?
(17:05):
You know, when we first started this and initiate our application,
all of those things were written into that, right, But
the reality is, you know, when you get into the
restaurant es you got to figure out a lot of things,
you know, especially especially the last year exactly. But I
think now that we kind of got a handle on
(17:27):
what it looks like, and I think there could absolutely
be a focus on these very specific details, you know.
I know one of our goals was hired some you know,
people that had their records expunge or that we're re
entering the space with non violent cannabis in fractions, if
you will, so a lot of things that can be done.
(17:48):
We just have to figure out, you know we I mean,
we were talking about systems of how to order, so
how to order food versus cannabis, and how to you know,
you know, maintain the letter of the law. So the
crazy stuff. You have to do a lot of workarounds.
We were, we were creative. We were like building doors,
closing doors, closing entrances, you have to go outside to
(18:10):
go to the restauranom. Yeah, it's a lot of it was.
There was a lot of things. But again, you know,
we've been in the in the mix, in the thick up,
so there's a greater understanding. And I also believe like
the city of West Hollywood, being able to come there
and see what it looks like and you're not like,
you know, envisioning or imagining this thing in your head
(18:31):
or thinking that there are people spilling out of the
building high and fighting. And we had zero physical or
violent incidents. That's a tame night in West Hollywood. Open
a bar and and and stake that claim. Let me
know how it goes, right. I drove by almost every day,
the cool thing, but I kept saying, please, just looks great.
I want to go in there, and you know that
(18:51):
was working most nights, so I didn't get a chance,
but I wish you had next time. I am in California,
which I'm not sure I have a restaurant. I haven't
been in a while because of COVID, but I will
definitely check it out. I want to check out the food.
Tell me about food. Tell me what are you what
are you doing there? I mean I saw some of
the menu. You talked about Vigano to talk about burgers,
but what other credible items are there? I mean, what
(19:12):
could people expect when they go into the restaurant. Just
so our listeners can understand what they're in for when
they go to it's now called the Original Cannabis Cafe.
One of the draws was absolutely the brunch menu, port
billion grits and chuck shuka, you know, some of some
of the fun menu items. The go to a lot
of shared plates, so it made it was a good time.
It's a great time to be creative and to think
(19:35):
about the farm to table on both aspects. You know,
it was a kind of a separate you know, you know,
we had the kitchen going and then you had the
Cannabis experience, but to collaborate with the front of the
house and do pairings as well. So we of course
couldn't infuse the food, but I could take a menu
item and pair it with a new product that was
(19:56):
coming out of the dispensary and explain why that pairing
works by the flavor profiles and the turpenes. All right,
so let's get back into food. Who are some of
your culinary heroes when you were in school or thinking
about cooking, Who who did you look up to? You know,
I have to say, for very reasons Grant Ackets hearing
(20:16):
his story about tongue cancer and having to use all
of your senses to cook. I think that kind of
gets lost, you know, especially when you're culinary school or
taste everything, taste everything, and sometimes you know, you get
in the weeds. Maybe you can't, but for me having
to really um and at one point there was like
(20:36):
a two year period that I was completely vegan. But
I'm cooking for constituents that ate lots of meat and
so having to put that into practice. But just being
so in tune with all of your senses when you cook,
I think is so important and sometimes get lost with us. Yeah,
I was talking about using your sense of hearing. Oh yeah,
listening to this all you know, you can tell if
(20:57):
something's cooking too hard, too fast, if it's doin too
hard too fast. And I teach class I often talk
about it. Yeah. Absolutely, So what's next? Do you see
another cafe? Can you do multiple cafes and they're more
licenses or granted? I mean, do you see going out
of California if you can in doing more in other states?
So what's the future for you. One of the things
that that we were able to do is lobby. The
(21:17):
city was Hollywood. I think there are other cities, other
places that would be interested in in hearing about these ideals.
And prior to COVID, I was in communication with one
of those cities, Palm Springs, and they were interested in
bringing something to bear. I see a limitations on where
this could go. In fact, what we were looking to
(21:38):
do is open one of the first cannabis inspired hotels,
Boutique Hotel, and I still want to see that come
to bear. But COVID hit and investors got a little skittish, understandable,
But I don't I don't see any uh, I don't
see any limitations. I and I've always said this from
two thousand and twelve when I got in industry. I
(21:58):
see cafes, I see restaurants, see spas, hotels, destination experiences.
There was one of the entities are supposed to be
like a gaming experience. I think it for as much
as you could create or envision it could have happened.
Anything outside of cannabis can happen under the umbrella. I mean,
what you're talking about is is a lot of these experiences,
(22:19):
whether it's spa or whether it's gaming, it can be
enhanced by by the experience. Absolutely, it's not just an adjunct.
It's not sort of, well, you have the experience, we're
going to a spa and then you know you can
get high to No, it's actually part of the experience. Yeah,
do you have any recommendations for other chefs that are
are looking to do this as a sort of state
(22:40):
by state you've got to just figure it out. Of course,
it's state by state. But first and foremost, you know,
be an advocate, lobby understand just as any chef has
to understand the product and how to source it and
what it means to the experience, what it means to
have on site consumption, what what what it's going to
mean to the city. So be versed in that, go
(23:01):
to the things and and lobby and advocate for what
you want to see to come to bear in your city,
and then just be bold enough to execute PRIs. I
mean listen here, I am like a am near middle
aged black woman having a conversation with Tom Collikio. So
(23:22):
who's an older white dude. You know, I think we
leave it at that. It's it's been great talking to you.
And instead, if I'm in California, I'll definitely come and
look you up. And uh, I would love to try
your food, either stone or not. But this is a
(23:43):
braving world and it's just you know, to me, it's
fascinating who actually is the first mover here? Um and
how it happened because it's not gonna be the last
day we're gonna see cafes and I agree with you,
I think they'll they'll be a time when this is
normalized and you know, part of the just part of
the scenery and part of the experience. Um So, but
it's it's great too. It's great to be able to
talk to the pioneer Ya. Thank you so much. Thank
(24:06):
you for having me. Now that we have a sense
of what it takes to be bold enough to make
waves in the cannabis industry, we're gonna come right back
with another pioneer working to make the same type of change,
but in a different arena. Stick with us. Chief Drummer
is such a pioneer in her field. But one thing
that was so evident in both our research and in
our conversation with her is that reforming the regulation of
(24:29):
cannabis is such a larger issue than just allowing it
into restaurants. This is especially true when you look at
it from a national perspective, since it's not been legal
as on a federal level yet. So we wanted to
speak to someone on the front lines of fighting for
reform in a state where marijuana is still illegal. We
are so lucky to get to talk to Senator Kim Jackson,
who was elected to the States Senate this year, and
(24:51):
one of her first acts was co sponsoring a resolution
paving the way to decriminalize cannabis. She's also been working
on the Agriculture and Consumer Affairs committe to work on
the state's practices surrounding him, and is just an all
around great person to talk to you about the bigger
picture when it comes to cannabis. Hi, We're thrilled to
have you. You're already doing so much for the great
(25:11):
state of Georgia, and I cannot wait to hear more
about why the legalization of cannabis is so important to
your platform. You can tell us a bit about yourself
and your remarkable career even outside of being a state center,
I serve Stone Mountain, Clarkson and Tucker in Georgia really
great places for those of you who may not be
from around these parts. When I'm not working as a Senator,
which is kind of always, I also am an episcopal priest,
(25:35):
and I have the great privilege of serving a congregation
of people who are currently experiencing homelessness in downtown Atlanta.
So when it comes to this topic of cannabis, I
have a number of reasons why I'm deeply passionate and
care about it. But one of the first reasons is
because the people who attend my church have often found
themselves caught up in a criminal justice system that quite
(25:57):
frankly was in just particularly when it pertains to their
use of cannabis. Jackson cites her own work as a
priest as the key component in shaping the way she
approaches cannabis. In particular, she notes the benefit of the
plant for her constituents experiencing homelessness. My prissioners sleep outside.
Many of them are folks who have been trying to
(26:19):
find a way to kind of make it through really
difficult times in life, and they do things to survive.
They do things also to just relax and find themselves
just some peace, and quite frankly, marijuana has been one
of those sources of relaxation and peace when you're living
in survival mode. Just being able to kind of sit
back and relax and chill with some folks has been
(26:40):
really helpful. And uh, and so I recognize that as
a recreational analysists in some ways as a source of
kind of soothing their souls in the midst of a
really deeply difficult time in their lives. And so that's
been a part of my own story of just watching
and being in relationship with these folks who live outside,
and as a past that's part of my job too,
(27:01):
is to help soothe their soul, right, Like, that's really
really part of my work. But I also recognize that
they use cannabis for recreational purposes and for some soul healing.
But also you know, I serve a district of people
who lived just outside of Metro Atlanta. We are a
majority African American district. The average age is only thirty
two in my district. So we are young, and we
(27:24):
are people of color, and so we enjoy finding ways
to recreate with one another. So you're arguing about cannabis
soothing the soul makes so much sense to me. Cannabis
is definitely not the first tool people think of when
they think of the work as a as a senator
and a priest. But how do you reconcile people the
view of the scripture and your own interpretation, and how
(27:44):
does cannabis play into that. Yeah, So I like to
remind people that the very first miracle that we have
recorded of Jesus is that he goes to a party
and he turns water into wine so that they can
continue their party. For me, that is an incredible lesson
and metaphor for the value of a party and the
value of having some enhanced substances that helped to enjoy
(28:08):
that party. Right, And I know some people will listen
to this and sound like, Hey, this sounds like heresy,
but I think that there's real legit evidence within scripture
that talks about the use of natural substances, right, Like
cannabis is a naturally occurring substance that God helped create. Right.
And also, I'm really clear, and this is some of
the work that I do with my parishioners is to
(28:30):
talk about you know, God calls us to live a
life of moderation and all things in moderation, right, And
so I think that there's really great theological grounding for
us being in that place. And and certainly if we
look beyond kind of the traditional Christian religion, there are other, many,
many examples of the use of psychedelics to help enhance
(28:50):
people's spiritual experiences. You know, mushrooms like those are those
are coming to the world of cooking light. Let's be clear,
there's so so many tragedy sational religions across this this
country and across the world that have used mushrooms in
particular to enhance their relationship with the spirit in the
spirit world. So cannabis has never adjument about recreation. It's
(29:14):
not just about recreation or relaxation. It's also about healing,
and I would make the argument as a pastor in
the priest that that healing is not just physical, but
there is a way in which we're able to connect
spiritually in a deeper way, and that that has some
spiritual healing aspects to it as well. Restaurants do they
have a role in fighting the stigma against cannabis. One
(29:35):
of the reasons why I think that having cannabis and
restaurants is important is because it helps us in this
process of destigmatizing the use of cannabis. So think about it.
You go to a nice restaurant anywhere, and they're going
to offer you wine to go with your meal because
they understand that wine helps enhance the experience the flavors.
(29:57):
You know. There there's all kinds of thought senses, And
I'm not a chef, but I do know that there
are people who think very intentionally about the pairing of
a wine with a particular pasta, a particular meat, and
the same thing could be true and should be true
as it relates to marijuana and how it's infused in
different foods. Uh So, I imagine a world where you
(30:18):
go to a nice restaurant and you're offered wine, but
you're also offered cannabis because that's a part of the
process of enhancing the experience of the food, and it
ultimately will do this work of helping to destigmatize the
use of cannabis as a general use that people participate in.
And so one of my goals with this podcast is
(30:38):
to address the stigma that comes along with cannabis, especially
as we discussed the potential benefits of the plant. You know,
you mentioned the hurdle that you're facing in Georgia. So
I was wondering if you could tell us a bit
more about why these thigmas are in place and your
goals with the bill that you preferred back in February.
S R one six five was written by Shake Rahman.
He is a state senator here. He's actually the only
(31:01):
Muslim state senator here in Georgia. And so s R
one simply creates a pathway for us to begin the
process of decriminalizing marijuana. It's a resolution, so it wouldn't
be a law, but it lays out the legal pathway
for us to move in that direction. Now, again, we
live in a very red state right now in terms
(31:22):
of who's in power and because of the great stigma
both religious and I think social and racist stigma connected
to it. We don't believe that s R one sixty
five will move, but it is a really clear signal
to people that that's the direction that we that shake
Raman and that I am moving in and I believe
that we as a party, as Senate Democrats, are moving towards.
(31:45):
Is the process of decriminalizing marijuana. Is this industry that
literally starts to grow and it quits so many people
who ended up incarcerated because if a marijuana charge. The
irony would be that they're left out of the marijuana business,
and not even that they're getting a license to grow,
but that they're allowed to work either in the dispensary,
are working on a farm, are working in the marketing
(32:06):
of cannabis, being in the cannabis industry, and the irony
that's that's someone who lost the ability to work because
of a cannabis charge can't work in the cannabis industry.
It doesn't make sense to me. Right. So, Georgia's laws
around prohibiting people who have felonies from growing hemp, those
are Georgia's specific laws, but the federal regulations also limit
(32:27):
if you have a felony drug conviction, you cannot get
a license to grow hemp for the ten years after
you finish your sentence. So even on our federal level,
so I want to encourage people wherever you are in
this nation to check your local laws and your federal laws.
We are actively discriminating against people who simply want to
put their hands in the dirt and grow something that's useful, right,
(32:50):
grow something that is helpful in healing to our souls,
and we are saying, no, you can't do it if
you have a felony drug convictions and it's less than
ten you since you've had that felony joke condition, I
want to just name you. Know, you asked about stigma
associated with cannabis, and the reality is it's all rooted
in racism. And we have a long trajectory here in
(33:13):
the United States. If any time we find a people
group that is using a substance that is different from
what the majority white culture has been using, it suddenly
becomes illegal. And that is what has happened with marijuana.
And so until we really confront our racist past and
the racism that is rooted in these practices, we're not
going to be able to overcome them. And I can
(33:35):
give you a great example of what that looks like
here in Georgia. So I'm sitting on the Agriculture committee
here in Georgia on the Georgia Senate, and we were
reviewing our practices for growing cannabis in the hemp form,
and we restrict people in Georgia. If you are a
convicted felon for any felony, you cannot grow hemp in Georgia.
(33:58):
You cannot receive a license. And I asked during committee,
I said, you know, if I wanted to grow corn,
can I be a convicted felon? Yes, of course, if
I wanted to grow tomatoes, is it okay if I
have a felony on my record? Sure? And hemp, let's
all be clear. Hemp is not something that you can
get high from. And I's like, so, hemp is not
(34:18):
something you can get high from. But you're still telling
me that if I'm a convicted felon, I cannot grow hemp.
And the answer was yes, because it's too close to
the drug. Right. So that's the kind of built in
racism and stigma that we have even in hemp farming,
and I'll tell you the amount of like somersaults that
(34:42):
we do in Georgia to make sure that our hemp
producers are not producing hemp that has higher levels of
th HC. They're extraordinary because it's almost like we have
this great fear and in fact that a former Georgia
Agriculture commissioner used to refer to hemp as the of
all lettuce. So not only is racism kind of build
(35:03):
into this, there's also some real interesting religion and theological
understandings around what marijuana is about that's also being built
into why currently there's just great stigma around the use
of and the growing of cannabis. As we conclude this episode,
New York State has just legalized recreational use for marijuana.
(35:24):
In the law, there is space for restaurants and cafes,
and obviously in New York State is still trying to
figure out how that's all going to work. I'm hoping
that obviously that when these licenses are given out, that
they're keeping people who have been incarcerated for minor marijuana
violations and hopefully that those some fractions are going to
be held against them when it comes time to issuing
(35:46):
those licenses because I think people who parts their years
of their lives were taken away, especially under a three
strike rule or some something like that, where at least
they could benefit from new regulations because they were put
in jail for maybe you know, having possessed of a
small amount of marijuana and that you know, they ended
up in jail, and hopefully when these regulations change, hopefully
they can benefit from from that. Right, So, I will
(36:08):
say so I am deeply passionate about issues of criminal
justice reform and in decarceration of people, the ending of
mass incarceration. It's one of the platforms that I ran
on and before I even became an elected official, that
was the activism that I engaged with. And what we
know is that there are literally thousands, thousands of in
(36:29):
particularly black men, but black women are not you know,
precluded from this as well. But there are thousands and
thousands of black folks who were sitting in our prisons
today because of silly little convictions over the possession of cannabis.
And it's often even small amounts of cannabis. And so
part of this work of decriminalizing and de stigmatizing the
(36:52):
use of cannabis is about helping to set people free.
I will say one of the things that I feel
very much called to in my life is about helping
set people free. Uh. And so if we can decriminalize cannabis,
then we can get people out of prison and they
can move forward with their lives and more in ways
that our whole and healthy. I would go further to
say that when we decriminalize cannabis, it will open us
(37:16):
up to beginning to explore and to think more critically
about how we do criminal justice as it relates to
drug uses in general. I am of a school of
thought that believes that people who are addicted to drugs
need treatment, not prison. They need treatment not jail. I
believe that if we can do this work of thinking
critically about cannabis, then we can also begin the work
(37:38):
of thinking importantly and critically about how we do drug
treatment broadly and move folks from prison to treatment to freedom. So,
if you're sitting there wishing you knew how you could
help address some of these issues and your local jurisdictions,
the Centator had some suggestions and what you can do
on a national level as well. So I want to
encourage folks as they are doing the work of serving
(38:00):
advocates and activists around the legalization of cannabis, and lawmakers
in particular to give special attention to making sure that
we build in equality into the process of being able
to farm for cannabis. So when I talk about issues
of restricting people from being able to grow cannabis because
they have a felony like that is a form of
(38:20):
systemic racism and we have to avoid that. I will
say that in all of our talks about policy here
in Georgia, for whether it's growing hemp or medical marijuana
or hopefully ultimately legalized cannabis, our goal is to make
sure that we write into it provisions to ensure that
black farmers have access to that work. That's really really important,
(38:42):
and we can't do it accidentally. What we know about
these United States, particularly when it comes to introducing kind
of new revenues for people to enter into, whether it's
licensed to be able to sell alcohol or a license
to be able to grow cannabis, unless we intentionally say
that their provisions to make sure that minority farmers, black
(39:04):
farmers in particular get to have access to those then
accidentally on purpose, because racism is built into the system,
it'll all be white farmers and we can't have that right.
And so yes, here's the reality. Black folks have been
selling marijuana and making their life work through the selling
(39:25):
of marijuana on you know, kind of underground, and when
we legalize it, we have to be careful to not
undermine those folks who have made their livelihood from selling
it underground. So we need to make sure we have
access and avenues for folks who've been selling it currently,
who are working is what we kind of colloquially called
street pharmacists, making sure that they have safe avenues into
(39:47):
the practice of continuing to be able to sell that
product in a way that's legal and that supports their livelihood.
Thanks again to both Chef Andrew Drummer and Senator Kim
Jackson for joining us. I have a feeling this will
not be the last time we discussed the intersection of
cannabis and food. You know, I get excited about any
(40:07):
new innovation in the fool world, but it means even
more when it's so closely is tied to justice for
so many. Let's hope that the original Cannabis Cafe is
just the beginning of a new wave of cannabis experiences,
and with legislators like Senator Jackson, I have no doubt
we'll start to see things change. Citizen Chef is executive
produced by Christopher howse Yodas, produced by Gabby Collins, and
(40:29):
researched by the Lilian Pullman. Citizen Chef is a production
of Piheart Radio. For more podcasts, visit the I heart
Radio app. Apple podcasts are anywhere you subscribe to podcasts.
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