January 14, 2023 • 34 mins
The second half we discuss code-switching or ‘talking White” as well as why Black people will sometimes switch up their dialect, cadence, tone, and even posture when interacting with White people or people in positions of authority. We give insight into this phenomenon and why it’s necessary for Black people to essentially be bilingual in America.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Watch moving my mic back.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're like that.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You can strike waters from headquarters behind him.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
And then if you're just tuning in the civic cipher,
I am your host Rams's job.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
He is, I am Q board you are listening to again.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
But thank you for this civic cer. Yeah, we do
appreciate your tuning in every week. Man, we're trying to
do something for you, and it seems like you're trying
to do something for yourself and for your community and
for your brothers and sisters who may or may not
look like you. That goes a long way in my book.
I will see you in Heaven. Stick around because we've
got a lot more show coming up for you, including
code switching. That is uh what I'm what I said
(00:45):
earlier basically kind of covered it. Black people are in
this country are bilingual and you may not anew it
and that and you might know it if you've been
around a black person long enough for in different circumstances,
but were going to spend some time talking about that.
We're also gonna discuss our Way Black History Fact today.
(01:06):
We're going to talk about a white man named Benjamin
Lay for our Way Black History Fact and if you
think that sounds interesting, wait until you hear the story.
But first and foremost, we're going to show you, or
rather tell you, how to become a better ally. It's
time for ba ba ba ba, and today's Babba is
brought to you by Major Threads Sportswear. Check out Major
(01:27):
threads dot com for the finest in men's sportswear. Today.
To become a better ally, we want you to read
a book. The book is called How White Folks Got
So Rich? The Untold Story of American White Supremacy, And
basically it kind of dispels the myth of kind of
(01:52):
the pioneer, you know, westward expansion or you know, the
colonists crossing the Atlanta Tick to the New World and
making a life for themselves and making a go at it.
It largely dispels a lot of myths associated with that
way of thinking, because that way of thinking kind of
(02:12):
suggests that everyone else is lazier, doesn't work hard, or
something like that, right, And the truth is, there were
lots of deliberate, intentional levels in society that you know,
encouraged people to do things, to pioneer, to take over lands,
and you were given things and you were able to
grow and you know, transfer wealth from one generation to
(02:35):
the next. I'll quickly read a review. How White Folks
Got So Rich is a critical and essential information that
non whites need to understand it be able to make
sense of how we ended up in the situation we
find ourselves in today. Specifically, information people classified as black
need to know and overstand. Black adults, and even more importantly,
young black people need to understand how the system of
racism and white supremacy has played a major role in
(02:57):
how people who classify themselves as white maintain dominance in
control through a system of cleverly crafted laws and rules
designed to undermine black progress every step of the way
and privilege white people every step of the way. So yeah,
check that book out, How White Folks Got So Rich?
It is interesting. And again we're not knocking anybody, We're
(03:21):
just trying to tell the truth so that everybody understands
why we are where we are. Once we understand that,
then we know how to move forward as brothers and sisters. Now,
code switching, que you ever had the code switch? Probably
not even aware of the all just happened without second thought.
(03:44):
And I don't think this is I think most people
hear that and they immediately connect it to corporate America
or the difference in cultures. But it's the difference between
the way you talk at school versus the way you
talk at church. It's not just about your black friends
and your white friends from corporate America versus home. It's
your friends versus your mom, your pastor versus your teacher,
your football coach versus your you know, the deacon at
(04:06):
your church. It's just all these different forms of not
just language but behavior growing up in this skin, in
this country. Absolutely, there's it's interesting because you know, you're right,
at church, you wouldn't talk the same way you would,
(04:30):
let's say, after school with your friends, you know, growing up,
or if you're I don't know, hanging out with your buddies.
That's not a word I would normally use. But your
buddies at a night club, you know what I mean. Now,
everybody can kind of say, well, yeah, I'm gonna like
push my tongue out a little further if I'm hanging
(04:52):
with my friends versus if I'm in church. That's not
what code switching is. Code switching is an entirely different
hash sharing different tone you know, you got to make
sure you don't sound too angry, too aggressive. It's it's
basically you're putting on your whitest display. I'll challenge that
(05:13):
in in in the right settings, you know, and the
other ones. It's kind of like, well, uh, I think
what you're calling well articulated speech is white. So that
you're you're right, You're right putting on your whitest as
if to substitute white for professional welfare. I have to
(05:34):
push back on that. Please, please push back on it.
So let me before you push back, let me finish
what I'm saying, and then what you're about to say
is very necessary. So we are often taught to be
like them, be better than them, to be good enough. Right,
they hold the opportunities. They're the ones that hire fire,
(05:56):
advance grade. Uh, you know, whatever it is that you're
doing in life. And by day I mean white people.
This is the world that we live in, right, And
so this is a skill that I believe that black
people develop at a young age because we recognize that
(06:17):
we are or I guess I should speak for myself.
I recognize that if I sound like them and I
move like them, then I might be able to fly
under the radar. I might get a passing mark. I
might you know, I might not be challenged. I might
(06:37):
have an easier go at things. You have no idea
the amount of code switching that happens. If the police
are behind me and they're like, sir, can you step
out of the car? Yes or no? Certain Absolutely, I
don't talk like that right, And to call it whitening
making yourself as white as you possibly can is absolutely
(06:59):
the wrong way to describe it. But when you boil
it down to it, I think that it's very easy
for black folks to make a connection with that code
switch and whiteness in a vast majority of the instances,
like there is a white presence that is that is
(07:22):
telling me or that that makes this switch preferable if
I want certain outcomes here right. In other words, I
may not lean on as as my friend Cheryl would
call it jive talk, interacting with an employer, a person
(07:43):
that holds the keys to opportunity, any anybody that I
need to take me seriously. I could be talking to,
you know, someone who's given me bad service at a restaurant.
I could be talking to a manager. I could be
you know, whatever, the situation is you put on you're
provided that it's a person that looks white. I could
(08:06):
be at the doctor's office, you put on that language,
that faced that posture, and try to have that conversation.
Now in contrast, and I do want to hear from me,
but let me just wrap this up. In contrast, if
I go to a doctor and the doctor is black,
it's not strictly speaking necessary. In fact, it might feel
a little awkward because you also know, doctor that I
(08:28):
don't talk like this, right, and so there's the potential
to have a much more comfortable conversation. This is the
experience I had recently. I took my little sister to
get her blood drawn for a something that she had
to take care of medically. And the doctor came in
and she was a black woman braids, you know, just
(08:49):
and she was like, oh, look at you. And my
little sister's name is Princess, right, that's her given name.
My dad is a g anyway, So the doctor comes
in and she's like, your name is princess. Oh wow,
we're about to have some fun today, girl, you know.
And that's you can't imagine a different It's hard to
explain the rhythm of we bout that has some fun
(09:10):
today girl from a black woman to another black woman.
And how important and comforting that is. How the doctor
didn't have to code switch. The doctor can just kind
of stay where she is and get on my sister's level.
My sister received that information. She's terrified in needles. She's
got that blood drawn off, blood draw off, no problem,
(09:31):
no tears this time. My sister is an adult woman,
and it's it's a really traumatic thing for her. That's
why I go with her wonderful experience, right, So pushback
against the whiteness. The thing I've said about why so I.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Think the reason why my variance of examples was so
different is I'm from Detroit, Okay, So yeah, everybody, I
mean everybody to hear that I'm from Detroit, born in
the eighties. Yeah, and not eighty nine, eighty one eighties,
born in the eighties.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I lived my whole eighties childhood in Detroit.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Teachers, friends, neighbors, pastor, doctor, police officers, dentists all black.
So even the word codes which means something different to me,
because my change in vernacular, attitude, behavior, and language had
nothing to do with your skin color. I spoke different
to Pastor William Revelee, doctor.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Right doctor.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
First of all, that my pastor was doctor William Revelee.
My associate pastor was Reverend Estella Seacrest, who for people
who listened to the show a lot, no, that's my mother.
The way I spoke to them was much different than
the way I spoke to everybody else. So that change
(10:47):
was more about respective position and respective place than skin color.
I spoke different to my doctor, my pastor, my teachers
than I did, like I said, my football coach, my classmates,
and my friends.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So it was never about being more white. It's a
respect thing. It was in a lot of where am
I and what type of impression do I need to
make care of. I'm trying to get a job.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I'm going to let these people know that I'm learned,
that I'm a scholar, that I'm educated, and that particulating thoughts. Yeah,
So that didn't mean I'm going to talk like my
white friend because I didn't have any.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
There was no white example.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Mister Wardale who taught me math, and Miss Moy was
Asi and mister Wardale was black. They were just smart.
My brain didn't think that means they're more like white people, right,
And fortunately the white people in my life at that
age were also teachers, so they just were people that
(11:43):
cared about me. There was not even that I mean
these teachers they didn't just work in Detroit, they lived
in the city too. So the experience was very, very
much about the students in the classroom, not like the
idea of the white savior didn't even play a part,
because the teaching staff was diverse but predominantly black as well.
Because again Detroit, Michigan. My first white classmate was at
(12:06):
cast Technical High School my freshman year, but that was
almost singular. I didn't have class rooms full of white
students until Bowling Green State University. And I think I've
told the story of my first actual intery encounter with
flagrant overt racism. Sure, and then of course that turned
(12:26):
into a snowball and you start to experience it more
as an adult. But there was a kind of sheltering
of growing up in Detroit with a best friend in
high school who moved to Detroit from Gary, Indiana.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yes, Jackson five, Gary, Indiana, right, So the hood. Yeah,
so all of our.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Experiences, the lawyers, the doctors and every type of doctor,
your PhD, your MD, your sociologists, your psychologists, your dentist.
Everybody was all black, your pastors, your principles, your assistant principles,
the people who ran the Jesuit High School that you
had to test to get into, from Castech to Martin
(13:05):
Luther King to Renaissance black people. So that's my pushback
on the idea that this behavior was about being more
like white people, not for not. Yeah, it had nothing
to do so so absolutely nothing. It was about, Okay,
you're about to go talk to.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Doctor.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah, you got a reverend, mister whatever name came after that.
You need to straighten up your pants up, tuck your
shirt in. It's about the use proper language, be respectful.
If you want to receive respect, you have to give it,
and you have to present yourself as respectable, not as white.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
You sound like an athlete, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Much different experience for me than maybe some people who
grew up in the space were what articulate and educated,
looked and sounded like was white.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Sure, sure, but I think that I think that your
example what it does is it suggests what our initial
statement was, is that we're when you grow up black
in America, you grow up bilingual. Because I know you've
(14:15):
heard this. Man, you guys talk so cool. Man, can
you explain what the lyrics of that rap song means?
What is it? You know, like, what is a bando?
You know, like that sort of stuff. Right, you talk
so cool? Right, So again having to like, I know
for a fact that if you were to take the
(14:36):
type of conversation that you would have with your friends
in high school and try to have that conversation in
front of your mom, she might get lost it maybe
three or four points of the conversation, like, well, okay,
I missed that. You know, through context clues, you can
get still a majority of it, but there are certain
parts where they get lost. This happened with my father
because we would often leave here, go to Last Angeles,
(15:02):
me and my friends from high school, we go to
Los Angeles, hang out with my father, and he would
get lost in our conversations. He'd be like, man, the
way you guys talk is so different. My father is
as black as me. Right. But again, that illustrates illuminates
the fact that, yes, there is sort of a bilingual
component to being black that is not readily found in
(15:27):
every other culture. Right with that said for places where
it's not as monocultural, like a place like Detroit, an
environment where it's kind of mixed up a bit. I
think California, you know, which is where I'm from, and
(15:54):
where you think of a lot of the people who
are in positions of authority. How do they move, how
do they sit? How do they talk? You know, your
examples come from classrooms often enough and the news. When
you see these people and they all look white and
(16:15):
they all talk like this, they say the whole word
like this, to quote Riley from The Boondocks, and you
realize that you're playing a game in their world where
they make the rules and they are the deciders at
the end of the day. And so this code switching
(16:37):
becomes more important as you mature. But I think from
a young age a lot of us recognize that having
those two languages and knowing when to deploy them in
conversations can make a significant impact on outcomes in your life. Now,
I do want to read something here. So the question
was why do black people switch the sound of their
(16:59):
voice to say white when speaking to white people? Okay,
this is the question that was asked, and the answer was,
it's an example of outstanding soft skills as masters of
customer service within an assimilated integrationist token environment. The technique
(17:20):
of mimicking the customer's cadence, tone, and accent is used
to help alleviate the stereotype based terror white people feel
when they speak to black people. In other words, we
don't want you to feel intimidated, afraid, We don't want
you to feel like we're going to mess things up
for you, and that sort of stuff. Right, So this
response is speaking to those parts of it, right, which
(17:40):
may not be true one percent of the time for
one hundred percent of the people, but it kind of
gives you some insight into the necessity of being bilingual
while being black in this country. Right, I'm talking to
you on the radio right now, I realize that I
have to have an intellectual conversation on the radio every week.
I talk like this, Man, I am the coolest due
(18:02):
in the world. Man, if you just listen to me
on the show, you think I'm a square as that
CD cover in the corner. But I also recognize that
this is something that has come very natural for me.
You know, I might code switch six or eight times
in the day, depending on how many people I'm around.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
I actually gotta tell our audience I need to work
with Rams' on his code switch, though, mean, because sometimes
there's very very necessary code switch and I don't do it,
and then I don't do it forgive my language be tripping. Yeah,
I've been having to retext Rams. It's like, Bro, did
(18:42):
you really just mean to say that to that person again?
And He's like, yeah, man, you know they're cool, And
I'm like, I don't know if she's that cool. I
don't know if that's how we want to address.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Any important people.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Off track, but Rams be tripping, you know again. Rams
is from Compton, So let me let me remind Q
is from Detroit right seven mile Road. To be specific,
Ramsey's job is from Compton. I'll let you guys do
your own mental math on culturally what these conversations sound
(19:21):
like when the microphones are not here.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, but I think to piggyback off of the first
part of the show. You know, Q and I are
both people that we're in classes for smart kids, and
you know, we took tests well and we can articulate
our thoughts better than most people. I hope that doesn't
(19:47):
sound like we're bragging but this is something that we
found to be true, and we try to use this
these what we what we consider gifts to kind of
give people insight into what it's like to us, to
give you a little bit more firsthand knowledge of something
(20:11):
you may not otherwise be made aware of, and having
the ability to articulate these things we feel like in
my translate and so yeah, sometimes the that switching is
is definitely necessary. And then sometimes you're right, I just
don't do it MS. But you know there's another part
(20:33):
of it too, and I think that this is something
that now that we're here, is worth mentioning. Code switching.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Is it is?
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I know in my heart of hearts, it's not a
betrayal of who I am. It's not a betrayal of
my people, my culture, my ancestors. That's not it. Community
kating takes place in a lot of ways. Just because
someone else says, you know, the King James version of
English is the way to get an idea out of
your head into someone else's head. Doesn't make them right,
(21:13):
doesn't make you right, doesn't make anyone right. Communication is
can I get a thought from my head into your head?
And if I can do that, then we are communicating.
I'm not the best Spanish speaker, although it was the
first language I spoke. I have a grandmother, my grandmother
from Cuba. She raised me the first few years of
my life. If you were to drop me off in
the middle of Mexico, I'd sound like a three year
old talking to anybody. But am I communicating? Yes, absolutely.
(21:35):
I could get myself to a phone booth, I can
get myself to a station where the people that can
help me. I can get myself a ticket and get
back to the US right, or get myself a translator.
That's communicating. If someone has an accent that you don't love,
it's an accent in no way is a reflection of
their cognitive abilities. Some people have brilliant minds and they're
(21:57):
not the best speakers. Or some people have minds and
they are the best speakers. They just don't speak in
a way that you're accustomed to listening. And these are
things that we all have to challenge because for a
long time I had stereotypes about people that came from
the South, and I thought that people from the South
were just slow, and that's not true. They're just Southern.
They have a different way of talking. They're not in
(22:18):
a rush to get the thoughts out of their brain.
They can sort of take their time a bit and
let the words lean on top of each other. Once
I learned that, I felt like, oh, maybe I'm misjudging.
Maybe I'm being prejudiced, you know, And this is something
that we all may be guilty of at different points
in our life. So if you happen to come across
(22:41):
a black person that hasn't code switched in your presence,
maybe they're trying to let you know who they really are.
Maybe they're trying to bring you over to their side
of things. Maybe they're trying to make you feel comfortable
with their authentic self. And sometimes I be tripping, and
sometimes I'd be trying to make time trying to make
people feel a little bit more comfortable. Let me finish
reading this. Okay, the alleviate the stereotyped based terror white
(23:09):
people feel when they speak to black people. Okay, many times, however,
despite our best efforts, the customer will still attack and
kill the customer service tech during due to self inflicted
anti black racism being stronger than civility. In other words,
if you hear this example, forgive me for not providing
(23:30):
the proper context here. But this example came from obviously
a customer service example of a black person at work
having to communicate.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
This could be in a store, this could be over
the phone, whatever. It's kind of like the same thing
when you hit a call center and you can tell
that the person based on their accent is from India,
you might think they don't know what they're talking about.
It's a very natural thing to think if you were
raised to think that people off of the news speak
(24:00):
the right way. The question you should be asking yourself, however,
now and in the future, is can I understand what
they are saying to me? And if the answer is yes,
that means they are communicating And at that point you
need to check your prejudices. All right, So it's time
for the Way Black History Fact. Today's Way Black History
(24:21):
Fact is sponsored by the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
And as I mentioned, we're going to be talking about
a gentleman named Benjamin Lay. So let's get started. January
twenty sixth, sixteen eighty two through February eighth, seventeen fifty nine.
Well that was a while ago. Benjamin Lay was an
Anglo American Quaker, humanitarian and abolitionist that means he was white.
(24:47):
He worked as a sailor. Sorry he was best known
for his early and strident anti slavery activities, which would
culminate in dramatic protest. He was also an author, farmer, vegetarian,
and distinguished by his early concern that the ethical treatment
of animals. Born in England into a farming family, his
early trade was as a shepherd and a glove maker.
(25:07):
After becoming a Quaker, he worked as a sailor and
in seventeen eighteen moved to Barbados. Here he witnessed the
poor treatment of African slaves that instilled in him his
lifelong abolitionist principles. Lay later settled in Philadelphia and was
made unpopular among his fellow Quakers by his confrontational anti
slavery stance. He published several pamphlets on social causes during
(25:30):
his lifetime, and one book, All slave Keepers That Keep
the Innocent in Bondage Apostates, one of the earliest North
American works against slavery. While man Ley stood barely four
feet tall, referring to himself as Little Benjamin, he was
a hunchback with a protruding chest, and his arms were
(25:53):
as long as his legs. He was a vegetarian. He
only ate fruits, vegetables, and honey, and drank only milk
and water. He did not believe that humans were superior
to non human animals, and created his own clothes to
boycott the slave labor industry. He would not wear anything
nor eat anything made from the loss of animal life
(26:13):
or provided by any degree of slave labor, refusing to
participate in what he described as his tracks as a degraded, hypocritical, tyrannical,
and even demonic society. Lay was committed to a lifestyle
of almost complete self sustenance after his beloved wife died
a man.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
I hope people realize how difficult it was to live
that lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Back then time. Yeah, I bet he sounds like an
amazing person.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Though.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
That's why we're talking about him there. It's the way
black history fact. Mind, you go ahead, Benjamin Lay, all right.
He first began advocating for the abolition of slavery when
in Barbados, he saw an enslaved man commit suicide rather
than be hit again by his owner. His passionate enmity
of slavery was partially fueled by his Quaker beliefs. They
(27:00):
made several dramatic demonstrations against the practice. He once stood
outside a Quicker meeting in winter with no coat and
at least one foot bear and in the snow. When
passer by passers by express concern for his health, he
said that slaves were made to work outdoors in winter,
dressed as he was. On another occasion, he kidnapped the
(27:21):
child of slaveholders temporarily to show them how Africans felt
when their relatives were sold overseas. That is a gangster move. Indeed,
the most notable act occurred in Burlington, New Jersey, at
the seventeen thirty eight Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of Quakers. Dressed
as a soldier, he concluded a diatribe against slavery, quoting
(27:42):
the Bible saying that all men should be equal under
God by plunging a sword into the Bible containing a
bladder of a blood red pokeberry juice, which splattered over
those nearby. So he had a flare for the dramatic
as well. Okay, his next part comes from this. I
pull some of this from Wikipedia, just so you know
my source. This next part comes from a Smithsonian Magazine
(28:05):
article which regarded the Burlington Quaker meeting incident. Okay, so
you might hear some stuff again because two different sources,
all right. He finally rose to address this gathering of
weighty Quakers and many friends in Pennsylvania and in New
Jersey had grown rich on Atlantic commerce, and many bought
human property to them. Lay announced in a booming voice
(28:28):
that God Almighty respects all people, equally, rich and poor,
men and women, white and black alike. He said that
slave keeping was the greatest sin in the world, and asked,
how can a people who profess the Golden rule keep slaves?
He then threw off his great coat, revealing the military garb,
the book, and the blade. A murmur filled the hall
as the prophet thundered his judgment. Thus shall God shed
(28:52):
the blood of those persons who enslaved their fellow creatures.
He pulled out sword, raised the book above his head,
and plunged the sword through it. People gasped as the
red liquid gushed down his arm. Women swooned with the
shock of all he splattered blood on the slave keepers.
He prophesied a dark, violent future. Quakers who failed to
heed the prophets called must expect physical, moral and spiritual death.
(29:15):
The room exploded into chaos, but Lay stood quiet and still,
like a statue. A witness remarked. Several Quakers quickly surrounded
the armed soldier of God and carried him from the building.
He did not resist. He had made his point. The
article also describes Lay throwing tobacco pipes at fellow Quakers
at meetings in Philadelphia, while loudly protesting the slave labor
(29:35):
upon which the tobacco growing relied. At other Quaker meetings,
whenever anyone who owned slaves stood up to talk, which
is how Quaker meetings work, he jump up and yelled
things like there's another inward master to shame them. He
regularly said slave owners bore the mark of the beasts
and were basically Satan incarnate. It came as no surprise
(29:56):
to Lay or anyone else that ministers and elders had
him removed from one gathering after another. Indeed, they appointed
a constablary to keep him out of meetings all around Philadelphia,
and even that wasn't enough. After he was tossed into
the street one rainy day, he returned to the main
door of the meetinghouse and lay down in the mud.
Requiring every person leaving the meeting to step over his body.
(30:21):
Lay was disowned by the Quaker Society in seventeen thirty
eight because he just wouldn't stop calling out elders as
rich members for their hypocrisy on the issue of slavery.
Also that year, Benjamin Franklin published one of Lai's anti
slavery pamphlets, All Keepers That Keep the Innocent in Bondage
Apple States. But Franklin owned a slave and later bought
(30:44):
two more. Lay called him out Ley refused to eat
or wear anything produced in anyway from slavery. He was
a vegetarian and his wife died. He lived in a cave,
kept goats and bees, farm vegetables and fruit trees, and
grew flax so he could spin it to make his
own clothes. And he had a library of about two
(31:05):
hundred books. So I think that's kind of partially some
way black history for you and Boba as well, becoming
a better ally becas that guy was risking it all,
all four feet of him.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
And not just risking it, but going to astronomical lengths. Yeah,
sure to minimize his impact on is to be the example.
The entire industry of the country at that time, was
your backs of black people. Yes, that's what I said
at that time, to be semi vegan or to not
(31:38):
wear cotton.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Take that stance. Yet there was no.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Artificial There wasn't the store you can go to where
you could buy clothes that weren't either animal or slave work. Yeah,
So to eat and dress and live in that manner
at that time far more difficult than it sounds. Lot
of people in the it's in vogue to live like
that now because we have so many options. They didn't
(32:04):
exist then fair point.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Well, if no one else remembers Benjamin Lay, we're definitely
going to do it today one time, and uh, that'll
be it for us today here on Civic Cipher. So
once again i'm your host. Rams' job is Rams and Cube.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
Man.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I don't know what you want me to say.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
You word man net word okay, cue word indeed, Uh,
the man, the myth, the legend, Okay, don't let ramses
cash a no man, this big facts over here. Anyway,
We want to thank you for listening to the show.
Do us a favor. Hit the website Civiccipher dot com.
Download this any previous episodes, make a donation to the show.
We keep growing. It's because of you. We got more
announcements coming your way as well. If you've missed any shows,
(32:42):
go ahead and download any previous episodes around all the
podcasting platforms. Tap in with us on social media. We
are at Civic Cipher on all social media platforms. Talk
to us as well, send us feedback, share the content,
let us know what you want us to cover. We
will do our best to empower you to create the
best ally that we can out of you. And we
(33:04):
promise you that we are going to be your brothers
on the other side of that into well into the future.
So until next week, y'all peace.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Yeah, like yo, we had to live these brothers a
fabulous our lady showing you where ROMB travel is speak
tone from sunlight to move, busting on stage like gonna
fights and move rove my mic back.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
You're like that journalist with journalist too.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
We can strike back all borders with waters from headquarters
behind in the beline sides up and the borders, the
press passing.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
We bring it to you as it happens. The streets.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Love popped in from music You're wrapping the street compand
the slash expando.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
You're going to fight the slander with the proper propaganda.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
What's happening, It's how You've got a questions to ask
if the grease is just a TV show you're passing.
And this from a white wartime journalist, headlines wait got
preas and resist like this like like this likened its
And now.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Watch moving my mic back.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're like that.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You can strike waters from headquarters behind him.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
And then if you're just tuning in the civic cipher,
I am your host Rams's job.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
He is, I am Q board you are listening to again.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
But thank you for this civic cer. Yeah, we do
appreciate your tuning in every week. Man, we're trying to
do something for you, and it seems like you're trying
to do something for yourself and for your community and
for your brothers and sisters who may or may not
look like you. That goes a long way in my book.
I will see you in Heaven. Stick around because we've
got a lot more show coming up for you, including
code switching. That is uh what I'm what I said
(00:45):
earlier basically kind of covered it. Black people are in
this country are bilingual and you may not anew it
and that and you might know it if you've been
around a black person long enough for in different circumstances,
but were going to spend some time talking about that.
We're also gonna discuss our Way Black History Fact today.
(01:06):
We're going to talk about a white man named Benjamin
Lay for our Way Black History Fact and if you
think that sounds interesting, wait until you hear the story.
But first and foremost, we're going to show you, or
rather tell you, how to become a better ally. It's
time for ba ba ba ba, and today's Babba is
brought to you by Major Threads Sportswear. Check out Major
(01:27):
threads dot com for the finest in men's sportswear. Today.
To become a better ally, we want you to read
a book. The book is called How White Folks Got
So Rich? The Untold Story of American White Supremacy, And
basically it kind of dispels the myth of kind of
(01:52):
the pioneer, you know, westward expansion or you know, the
colonists crossing the Atlanta Tick to the New World and
making a life for themselves and making a go at it.
It largely dispels a lot of myths associated with that
way of thinking, because that way of thinking kind of
(02:12):
suggests that everyone else is lazier, doesn't work hard, or
something like that, right, And the truth is, there were
lots of deliberate, intentional levels in society that you know,
encouraged people to do things, to pioneer, to take over lands,
and you were given things and you were able to
grow and you know, transfer wealth from one generation to
(02:35):
the next. I'll quickly read a review. How White Folks
Got So Rich is a critical and essential information that
non whites need to understand it be able to make
sense of how we ended up in the situation we
find ourselves in today. Specifically, information people classified as black
need to know and overstand. Black adults, and even more importantly,
young black people need to understand how the system of
racism and white supremacy has played a major role in
(02:57):
how people who classify themselves as white maintain dominance in
control through a system of cleverly crafted laws and rules
designed to undermine black progress every step of the way
and privilege white people every step of the way. So yeah,
check that book out, How White Folks Got So Rich?
It is interesting. And again we're not knocking anybody, We're
(03:21):
just trying to tell the truth so that everybody understands
why we are where we are. Once we understand that,
then we know how to move forward as brothers and sisters. Now,
code switching, que you ever had the code switch? Probably
not even aware of the all just happened without second thought.
(03:44):
And I don't think this is I think most people
hear that and they immediately connect it to corporate America
or the difference in cultures. But it's the difference between
the way you talk at school versus the way you
talk at church. It's not just about your black friends
and your white friends from corporate America versus home. It's
your friends versus your mom, your pastor versus your teacher,
your football coach versus your you know, the deacon at
(04:06):
your church. It's just all these different forms of not
just language but behavior growing up in this skin, in
this country. Absolutely, there's it's interesting because you know, you're right,
at church, you wouldn't talk the same way you would,
(04:30):
let's say, after school with your friends, you know, growing up,
or if you're I don't know, hanging out with your buddies.
That's not a word I would normally use. But your
buddies at a night club, you know what I mean. Now,
everybody can kind of say, well, yeah, I'm gonna like
push my tongue out a little further if I'm hanging
(04:52):
with my friends versus if I'm in church. That's not
what code switching is. Code switching is an entirely different
hash sharing different tone you know, you got to make
sure you don't sound too angry, too aggressive. It's it's
basically you're putting on your whitest display. I'll challenge that
(05:13):
in in in the right settings, you know, and the
other ones. It's kind of like, well, uh, I think
what you're calling well articulated speech is white. So that
you're you're right, You're right putting on your whitest as
if to substitute white for professional welfare. I have to
(05:34):
push back on that. Please, please push back on it.
So let me before you push back, let me finish
what I'm saying, and then what you're about to say
is very necessary. So we are often taught to be
like them, be better than them, to be good enough. Right,
they hold the opportunities. They're the ones that hire fire,
(05:56):
advance grade. Uh, you know, whatever it is that you're
doing in life. And by day I mean white people.
This is the world that we live in, right, And
so this is a skill that I believe that black
people develop at a young age because we recognize that
(06:17):
we are or I guess I should speak for myself.
I recognize that if I sound like them and I
move like them, then I might be able to fly
under the radar. I might get a passing mark. I
might you know, I might not be challenged. I might
(06:37):
have an easier go at things. You have no idea
the amount of code switching that happens. If the police
are behind me and they're like, sir, can you step
out of the car? Yes or no? Certain Absolutely, I
don't talk like that right, And to call it whitening
making yourself as white as you possibly can is absolutely
(06:59):
the wrong way to describe it. But when you boil
it down to it, I think that it's very easy
for black folks to make a connection with that code
switch and whiteness in a vast majority of the instances,
like there is a white presence that is that is
(07:22):
telling me or that that makes this switch preferable if
I want certain outcomes here right. In other words, I
may not lean on as as my friend Cheryl would
call it jive talk, interacting with an employer, a person
(07:43):
that holds the keys to opportunity, any anybody that I
need to take me seriously. I could be talking to,
you know, someone who's given me bad service at a restaurant.
I could be talking to a manager. I could be
you know, whatever, the situation is you put on you're
provided that it's a person that looks white. I could
(08:06):
be at the doctor's office, you put on that language,
that faced that posture, and try to have that conversation.
Now in contrast, and I do want to hear from me,
but let me just wrap this up. In contrast, if
I go to a doctor and the doctor is black,
it's not strictly speaking necessary. In fact, it might feel
a little awkward because you also know, doctor that I
(08:28):
don't talk like this, right, and so there's the potential
to have a much more comfortable conversation. This is the
experience I had recently. I took my little sister to
get her blood drawn for a something that she had
to take care of medically. And the doctor came in
and she was a black woman braids, you know, just
(08:49):
and she was like, oh, look at you. And my
little sister's name is Princess, right, that's her given name.
My dad is a g anyway, So the doctor comes
in and she's like, your name is princess. Oh wow,
we're about to have some fun today, girl, you know.
And that's you can't imagine a different It's hard to
explain the rhythm of we bout that has some fun
(09:10):
today girl from a black woman to another black woman.
And how important and comforting that is. How the doctor
didn't have to code switch. The doctor can just kind
of stay where she is and get on my sister's level.
My sister received that information. She's terrified in needles. She's
got that blood drawn off, blood draw off, no problem,
(09:31):
no tears this time. My sister is an adult woman,
and it's it's a really traumatic thing for her. That's
why I go with her wonderful experience, right, So pushback
against the whiteness. The thing I've said about why so I.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Think the reason why my variance of examples was so
different is I'm from Detroit, Okay, So yeah, everybody, I
mean everybody to hear that I'm from Detroit, born in
the eighties. Yeah, and not eighty nine, eighty one eighties,
born in the eighties.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
I lived my whole eighties childhood in Detroit.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Teachers, friends, neighbors, pastor, doctor, police officers, dentists all black.
So even the word codes which means something different to me,
because my change in vernacular, attitude, behavior, and language had
nothing to do with your skin color. I spoke different
to Pastor William Revelee, doctor.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Right doctor.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
First of all, that my pastor was doctor William Revelee.
My associate pastor was Reverend Estella Seacrest, who for people
who listened to the show a lot, no, that's my mother.
The way I spoke to them was much different than
the way I spoke to everybody else. So that change
(10:47):
was more about respective position and respective place than skin color.
I spoke different to my doctor, my pastor, my teachers
than I did, like I said, my football coach, my classmates,
and my friends.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
So it was never about being more white. It's a
respect thing. It was in a lot of where am
I and what type of impression do I need to
make care of. I'm trying to get a job.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I'm going to let these people know that I'm learned,
that I'm a scholar, that I'm educated, and that particulating thoughts. Yeah,
So that didn't mean I'm going to talk like my
white friend because I didn't have any.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
There was no white example.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Mister Wardale who taught me math, and Miss Moy was
Asi and mister Wardale was black. They were just smart.
My brain didn't think that means they're more like white people, right,
And fortunately the white people in my life at that
age were also teachers, so they just were people that
(11:43):
cared about me. There was not even that I mean
these teachers they didn't just work in Detroit, they lived
in the city too. So the experience was very, very
much about the students in the classroom, not like the
idea of the white savior didn't even play a part,
because the teaching staff was diverse but predominantly black as well.
Because again Detroit, Michigan. My first white classmate was at
(12:06):
cast Technical High School my freshman year, but that was
almost singular. I didn't have class rooms full of white
students until Bowling Green State University. And I think I've
told the story of my first actual intery encounter with
flagrant overt racism. Sure, and then of course that turned
(12:26):
into a snowball and you start to experience it more
as an adult. But there was a kind of sheltering
of growing up in Detroit with a best friend in
high school who moved to Detroit from Gary, Indiana.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yes, Jackson five, Gary, Indiana, right, So the hood. Yeah,
so all of our.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Experiences, the lawyers, the doctors and every type of doctor,
your PhD, your MD, your sociologists, your psychologists, your dentist.
Everybody was all black, your pastors, your principles, your assistant principles,
the people who ran the Jesuit High School that you
had to test to get into, from Castech to Martin
(13:05):
Luther King to Renaissance black people. So that's my pushback
on the idea that this behavior was about being more
like white people, not for not. Yeah, it had nothing
to do so so absolutely nothing. It was about, Okay,
you're about to go talk to.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Doctor.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah, you got a reverend, mister whatever name came after that.
You need to straighten up your pants up, tuck your
shirt in. It's about the use proper language, be respectful.
If you want to receive respect, you have to give it,
and you have to present yourself as respectable, not as white.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
You sound like an athlete, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
Much different experience for me than maybe some people who
grew up in the space were what articulate and educated,
looked and sounded like was white.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Sure, sure, but I think that I think that your
example what it does is it suggests what our initial
statement was, is that we're when you grow up black
in America, you grow up bilingual. Because I know you've
(14:15):
heard this. Man, you guys talk so cool. Man, can
you explain what the lyrics of that rap song means?
What is it? You know, like, what is a bando?
You know, like that sort of stuff. Right, you talk
so cool? Right, So again having to like, I know
for a fact that if you were to take the
(14:36):
type of conversation that you would have with your friends
in high school and try to have that conversation in
front of your mom, she might get lost it maybe
three or four points of the conversation, like, well, okay,
I missed that. You know, through context clues, you can
get still a majority of it, but there are certain
parts where they get lost. This happened with my father
because we would often leave here, go to Last Angeles,
(15:02):
me and my friends from high school, we go to
Los Angeles, hang out with my father, and he would
get lost in our conversations. He'd be like, man, the
way you guys talk is so different. My father is
as black as me. Right. But again, that illustrates illuminates
the fact that, yes, there is sort of a bilingual
component to being black that is not readily found in
(15:27):
every other culture. Right with that said for places where
it's not as monocultural, like a place like Detroit, an
environment where it's kind of mixed up a bit. I
think California, you know, which is where I'm from, and
(15:54):
where you think of a lot of the people who
are in positions of authority. How do they move, how
do they sit? How do they talk? You know, your
examples come from classrooms often enough and the news. When
you see these people and they all look white and
(16:15):
they all talk like this, they say the whole word
like this, to quote Riley from The Boondocks, and you
realize that you're playing a game in their world where
they make the rules and they are the deciders at
the end of the day. And so this code switching
(16:37):
becomes more important as you mature. But I think from
a young age a lot of us recognize that having
those two languages and knowing when to deploy them in
conversations can make a significant impact on outcomes in your life. Now,
I do want to read something here. So the question
was why do black people switch the sound of their
(16:59):
voice to say white when speaking to white people? Okay,
this is the question that was asked, and the answer was,
it's an example of outstanding soft skills as masters of
customer service within an assimilated integrationist token environment. The technique
(17:20):
of mimicking the customer's cadence, tone, and accent is used
to help alleviate the stereotype based terror white people feel
when they speak to black people. In other words, we
don't want you to feel intimidated, afraid, We don't want
you to feel like we're going to mess things up
for you, and that sort of stuff. Right, So this
response is speaking to those parts of it, right, which
(17:40):
may not be true one percent of the time for
one hundred percent of the people, but it kind of
gives you some insight into the necessity of being bilingual
while being black in this country. Right, I'm talking to
you on the radio right now, I realize that I
have to have an intellectual conversation on the radio every week.
I talk like this, Man, I am the coolest due
(18:02):
in the world. Man, if you just listen to me
on the show, you think I'm a square as that
CD cover in the corner. But I also recognize that
this is something that has come very natural for me.
You know, I might code switch six or eight times
in the day, depending on how many people I'm around.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
I actually gotta tell our audience I need to work
with Rams' on his code switch, though, mean, because sometimes
there's very very necessary code switch and I don't do it,
and then I don't do it forgive my language be tripping. Yeah,
I've been having to retext Rams. It's like, Bro, did
(18:42):
you really just mean to say that to that person again?
And He's like, yeah, man, you know they're cool, And
I'm like, I don't know if she's that cool. I
don't know if that's how we want to address.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Any important people.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Off track, but Rams be tripping, you know again. Rams
is from Compton, So let me let me remind Q
is from Detroit right seven mile Road. To be specific,
Ramsey's job is from Compton. I'll let you guys do
your own mental math on culturally what these conversations sound
(19:21):
like when the microphones are not here.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, but I think to piggyback off of the first
part of the show. You know, Q and I are
both people that we're in classes for smart kids, and
you know, we took tests well and we can articulate
our thoughts better than most people. I hope that doesn't
(19:47):
sound like we're bragging but this is something that we
found to be true, and we try to use this
these what we what we consider gifts to kind of
give people insight into what it's like to us, to
give you a little bit more firsthand knowledge of something
(20:11):
you may not otherwise be made aware of, and having
the ability to articulate these things we feel like in
my translate and so yeah, sometimes the that switching is
is definitely necessary. And then sometimes you're right, I just
don't do it MS. But you know there's another part
(20:33):
of it too, and I think that this is something
that now that we're here, is worth mentioning. Code switching.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Is it is?
Speaker 1 (20:52):
I know in my heart of hearts, it's not a
betrayal of who I am. It's not a betrayal of
my people, my culture, my ancestors. That's not it. Community
kating takes place in a lot of ways. Just because
someone else says, you know, the King James version of
English is the way to get an idea out of
your head into someone else's head. Doesn't make them right,
(21:13):
doesn't make you right, doesn't make anyone right. Communication is
can I get a thought from my head into your head?
And if I can do that, then we are communicating.
I'm not the best Spanish speaker, although it was the
first language I spoke. I have a grandmother, my grandmother
from Cuba. She raised me the first few years of
my life. If you were to drop me off in
the middle of Mexico, I'd sound like a three year
old talking to anybody. But am I communicating? Yes, absolutely.
(21:35):
I could get myself to a phone booth, I can
get myself to a station where the people that can
help me. I can get myself a ticket and get
back to the US right, or get myself a translator.
That's communicating. If someone has an accent that you don't love,
it's an accent in no way is a reflection of
their cognitive abilities. Some people have brilliant minds and they're
(21:57):
not the best speakers. Or some people have minds and
they are the best speakers. They just don't speak in
a way that you're accustomed to listening. And these are
things that we all have to challenge because for a
long time I had stereotypes about people that came from
the South, and I thought that people from the South
were just slow, and that's not true. They're just Southern.
They have a different way of talking. They're not in
(22:18):
a rush to get the thoughts out of their brain.
They can sort of take their time a bit and
let the words lean on top of each other. Once
I learned that, I felt like, oh, maybe I'm misjudging.
Maybe I'm being prejudiced, you know, And this is something
that we all may be guilty of at different points
in our life. So if you happen to come across
(22:41):
a black person that hasn't code switched in your presence,
maybe they're trying to let you know who they really are.
Maybe they're trying to bring you over to their side
of things. Maybe they're trying to make you feel comfortable
with their authentic self. And sometimes I be tripping, and
sometimes I'd be trying to make time trying to make
people feel a little bit more comfortable. Let me finish
reading this. Okay, the alleviate the stereotyped based terror white
(23:09):
people feel when they speak to black people. Okay, many times, however,
despite our best efforts, the customer will still attack and
kill the customer service tech during due to self inflicted
anti black racism being stronger than civility. In other words,
if you hear this example, forgive me for not providing
(23:30):
the proper context here. But this example came from obviously
a customer service example of a black person at work
having to communicate.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Right.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
This could be in a store, this could be over
the phone, whatever. It's kind of like the same thing
when you hit a call center and you can tell
that the person based on their accent is from India,
you might think they don't know what they're talking about.
It's a very natural thing to think if you were
raised to think that people off of the news speak
(24:00):
the right way. The question you should be asking yourself, however,
now and in the future, is can I understand what
they are saying to me? And if the answer is yes,
that means they are communicating And at that point you
need to check your prejudices. All right, So it's time
for the Way Black History Fact. Today's Way Black History
(24:21):
Fact is sponsored by the Black Information Network Daily Podcast
And as I mentioned, we're going to be talking about
a gentleman named Benjamin Lay. So let's get started. January
twenty sixth, sixteen eighty two through February eighth, seventeen fifty nine.
Well that was a while ago. Benjamin Lay was an
Anglo American Quaker, humanitarian and abolitionist that means he was white.
(24:47):
He worked as a sailor. Sorry he was best known
for his early and strident anti slavery activities, which would
culminate in dramatic protest. He was also an author, farmer, vegetarian,
and distinguished by his early concern that the ethical treatment
of animals. Born in England into a farming family, his
early trade was as a shepherd and a glove maker.
(25:07):
After becoming a Quaker, he worked as a sailor and
in seventeen eighteen moved to Barbados. Here he witnessed the
poor treatment of African slaves that instilled in him his
lifelong abolitionist principles. Lay later settled in Philadelphia and was
made unpopular among his fellow Quakers by his confrontational anti
slavery stance. He published several pamphlets on social causes during
(25:30):
his lifetime, and one book, All slave Keepers That Keep
the Innocent in Bondage Apostates, one of the earliest North
American works against slavery. While man Ley stood barely four
feet tall, referring to himself as Little Benjamin, he was
a hunchback with a protruding chest, and his arms were
(25:53):
as long as his legs. He was a vegetarian. He
only ate fruits, vegetables, and honey, and drank only milk
and water. He did not believe that humans were superior
to non human animals, and created his own clothes to
boycott the slave labor industry. He would not wear anything
nor eat anything made from the loss of animal life
(26:13):
or provided by any degree of slave labor, refusing to
participate in what he described as his tracks as a degraded, hypocritical, tyrannical,
and even demonic society. Lay was committed to a lifestyle
of almost complete self sustenance after his beloved wife died
a man.
Speaker 3 (26:31):
I hope people realize how difficult it was to live
that lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Back then time. Yeah, I bet he sounds like an
amazing person.
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Though.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
That's why we're talking about him there. It's the way
black history fact. Mind, you go ahead, Benjamin Lay, all right.
He first began advocating for the abolition of slavery when
in Barbados, he saw an enslaved man commit suicide rather
than be hit again by his owner. His passionate enmity
of slavery was partially fueled by his Quaker beliefs. They
(27:00):
made several dramatic demonstrations against the practice. He once stood
outside a Quicker meeting in winter with no coat and
at least one foot bear and in the snow. When
passer by passers by express concern for his health, he
said that slaves were made to work outdoors in winter,
dressed as he was. On another occasion, he kidnapped the
(27:21):
child of slaveholders temporarily to show them how Africans felt
when their relatives were sold overseas. That is a gangster move. Indeed,
the most notable act occurred in Burlington, New Jersey, at
the seventeen thirty eight Philadelphia Yearly Meeting of Quakers. Dressed
as a soldier, he concluded a diatribe against slavery, quoting
(27:42):
the Bible saying that all men should be equal under
God by plunging a sword into the Bible containing a
bladder of a blood red pokeberry juice, which splattered over
those nearby. So he had a flare for the dramatic
as well. Okay, his next part comes from this. I
pull some of this from Wikipedia, just so you know
my source. This next part comes from a Smithsonian Magazine
(28:05):
article which regarded the Burlington Quaker meeting incident. Okay, so
you might hear some stuff again because two different sources,
all right. He finally rose to address this gathering of
weighty Quakers and many friends in Pennsylvania and in New
Jersey had grown rich on Atlantic commerce, and many bought
human property to them. Lay announced in a booming voice
(28:28):
that God Almighty respects all people, equally, rich and poor,
men and women, white and black alike. He said that
slave keeping was the greatest sin in the world, and asked,
how can a people who profess the Golden rule keep slaves?
He then threw off his great coat, revealing the military garb,
the book, and the blade. A murmur filled the hall
as the prophet thundered his judgment. Thus shall God shed
(28:52):
the blood of those persons who enslaved their fellow creatures.
He pulled out sword, raised the book above his head,
and plunged the sword through it. People gasped as the
red liquid gushed down his arm. Women swooned with the
shock of all he splattered blood on the slave keepers.
He prophesied a dark, violent future. Quakers who failed to
heed the prophets called must expect physical, moral and spiritual death.
(29:15):
The room exploded into chaos, but Lay stood quiet and still,
like a statue. A witness remarked. Several Quakers quickly surrounded
the armed soldier of God and carried him from the building.
He did not resist. He had made his point. The
article also describes Lay throwing tobacco pipes at fellow Quakers
at meetings in Philadelphia, while loudly protesting the slave labor
(29:35):
upon which the tobacco growing relied. At other Quaker meetings,
whenever anyone who owned slaves stood up to talk, which
is how Quaker meetings work, he jump up and yelled
things like there's another inward master to shame them. He
regularly said slave owners bore the mark of the beasts
and were basically Satan incarnate. It came as no surprise
(29:56):
to Lay or anyone else that ministers and elders had
him removed from one gathering after another. Indeed, they appointed
a constablary to keep him out of meetings all around Philadelphia,
and even that wasn't enough. After he was tossed into
the street one rainy day, he returned to the main
door of the meetinghouse and lay down in the mud.
Requiring every person leaving the meeting to step over his body.
(30:21):
Lay was disowned by the Quaker Society in seventeen thirty
eight because he just wouldn't stop calling out elders as
rich members for their hypocrisy on the issue of slavery.
Also that year, Benjamin Franklin published one of Lai's anti
slavery pamphlets, All Keepers That Keep the Innocent in Bondage
Apple States. But Franklin owned a slave and later bought
(30:44):
two more. Lay called him out Ley refused to eat
or wear anything produced in anyway from slavery. He was
a vegetarian and his wife died. He lived in a cave,
kept goats and bees, farm vegetables and fruit trees, and
grew flax so he could spin it to make his
own clothes. And he had a library of about two
(31:05):
hundred books. So I think that's kind of partially some
way black history for you and Boba as well, becoming
a better ally becas that guy was risking it all,
all four feet of him.
Speaker 3 (31:17):
And not just risking it, but going to astronomical lengths. Yeah,
sure to minimize his impact on is to be the example.
The entire industry of the country at that time, was
your backs of black people. Yes, that's what I said
at that time, to be semi vegan or to not
(31:38):
wear cotton.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Take that stance. Yet there was no.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
Artificial There wasn't the store you can go to where
you could buy clothes that weren't either animal or slave work. Yeah,
So to eat and dress and live in that manner
at that time far more difficult than it sounds. Lot
of people in the it's in vogue to live like
that now because we have so many options. They didn't
(32:04):
exist then fair point.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Well, if no one else remembers Benjamin Lay, we're definitely
going to do it today one time, and uh, that'll
be it for us today here on Civic Cipher. So
once again i'm your host. Rams' job is Rams and Cube.
Speaker 4 (32:18):
Man.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
I don't know what you want me to say.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
You word man net word okay, cue word indeed, Uh,
the man, the myth, the legend, Okay, don't let ramses
cash a no man, this big facts over here. Anyway,
We want to thank you for listening to the show.
Do us a favor. Hit the website Civiccipher dot com.
Download this any previous episodes, make a donation to the show.
We keep growing. It's because of you. We got more
announcements coming your way as well. If you've missed any shows,
(32:42):
go ahead and download any previous episodes around all the
podcasting platforms. Tap in with us on social media. We
are at Civic Cipher on all social media platforms. Talk
to us as well, send us feedback, share the content,
let us know what you want us to cover. We
will do our best to empower you to create the
best ally that we can out of you. And we
(33:04):
promise you that we are going to be your brothers
on the other side of that into well into the future.
So until next week, y'all peace.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Yeah, like yo, we had to live these brothers a
fabulous our lady showing you where ROMB travel is speak
tone from sunlight to move, busting on stage like gonna
fights and move rove my mic back.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
You're like that journalist with journalist too.
Speaker 4 (33:28):
We can strike back all borders with waters from headquarters
behind in the beline sides up and the borders, the
press passing.
Speaker 2 (33:36):
We bring it to you as it happens. The streets.
Speaker 4 (33:38):
Love popped in from music You're wrapping the street compand
the slash expando.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
You're going to fight the slander with the proper propaganda.
Speaker 4 (33:45):
What's happening, It's how You've got a questions to ask
if the grease is just a TV show you're passing.
And this from a white wartime journalist, headlines wait got
preas and resist like this like like this likened its
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