February 4, 2023 • 34 mins
In the second half of the show, we finish the story of us getting pulled over and draw some parallels to a significant amount of police interactions with Black and Brown people. We make a case that the system in place benefits White people in society more than everyone else and often comes at the expense of those of us who are non-White.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now my mic back you're like that.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Strikes from head borders behind him.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
And then for those of who just tuning in the
civic cipher, I'm your host, Ramses John, he is Ramses John,
I am h Ward. You are now and again tuned
in to civic cycling. And that's the truth, all right,
So stick around. We've got a little bit more story
to tell you. Uh again, it's not black and it's
not white. It's not black or white. It's not black
(00:33):
versus white. It's blue. Okay, it's a lot more than blue,
but we're gonna start with the blue to help y'all
to see what reality looks like, and then we're gonna
slowly work from there to explain all these other less
visible forces that don't get recorded. But today we're talking
about how it's not black or white, it's blue. And
(00:55):
we're also gonna spend some time talking about, uh, a
enormous bank robbery where the largest in the country came
from black people by white owned banks and it was
very sad. But right about now we are going to
teach you how to be aba that has become a
(01:15):
better ally baba. So today's Baba sponsored by major Threads
for the finest in menswear, checkout major threads dot com.
And if you would like to become a better ally,
we're inviting you to check out the NAACP that's at
NAACP dot org. I got a note from them. It
says last week the world watched with horror as the
(01:36):
city of Memphis released the footage from the heinous police
brutality that killed Tyree Nichols. The police officers involved have
been charged, but there's far from that is far from enough.
We have run out of thoughts and prayers. Thoughts and
prayers do not change the lack of regard for black lives.
Ten thousand urgent signatures are needed at your name now
to urge Congress to past critical police reform legislation to
(01:58):
end police brutality. Ending the inhumane and unjustified trauma police
violence against black Americans is going to take more than
what we've seen from people in power today. There's not
a single federal law on the books addressing police violence.
We are making sure Congress knows that failing to act
now means writing another obituary. We need real legislative action
now so no one experiences this kind of horrific violence
(02:20):
at the handles the law enforcement. Ever, again that's from
the NAACP. Again, NAACP dot org. They do have a
fund where you can donate for this as well. And
this is important. You know, we're not all going to
agree on what the best thing to do is, but
(02:41):
the NAACP is doing something. And if you're doing nothing
right now, then you can at least help some organization
do something because what we're seeing right now it's hurtful
and it's awful, and it's clearly not working. And so
now's not the time to to play the politics game.
(03:02):
We need to move the needle in a lot of arenas,
this being, you know, one of the ones that we
have to talk about because it's important in this arena
for us. So check out the NBACP. All right, now
back to our story. So Q has stepped out of
(03:23):
the car and I'm still in the car. Now. I
know full well I'm not new to this. I don't
want you to think that I got active in twenty
twenty and then read a couple of books and then
(03:44):
I was like on my level, on my square. No,
I've been this person. For those that are not familiar,
Q's mom and my dad are both preachers, and in
the black community, more often than not, the the preachers
are the ones who obviously they're your spiritual advisors and
(04:06):
so forth, but they're also kind of like community leaders, right,
So us being children of ministers meant that we also
had a dose of take care of your community, protect
your community. So for me, since a young age, I
always knew that that was going to be a part
(04:30):
of my existence forevermore. I was born into a group
that is considered disadvantaged by every meaningful metric in this country,
and it is my job to know that and work
against that. Right and so I've read books my whole life,
(04:50):
you know, my study. You know, for those that watch
the show or listen to the show and are familiar
with doctor Westernberg, I met doctor Westernberg when I was nineteen.
She was my teacher. So for past twenty one years
she has been influencing me and providing me with deeper insight.
(05:10):
I was the president of the Black Student Union when
I was in college. She was the advisor. So this
gives you a little bit of an idea. So when
we're pulled over in Mississippi and they ask you to
get out of the car again very clearly, we're not drunk,
and he asked you to step back. And remember, I
(05:31):
can't see out that window, so I don't know what's
happening with Q. Not only is there a bright spotlight,
but I've now stepped out of view. Out of view.
So he didn't say, hey, I want to give you
sobriety tell He didn't say any of that. He's hey,
just step back back here, and you listen to Q talk.
He talks like that all the time. Drunk people sound different,
they look different, they move different, or people on drugs
(05:54):
or whatever. That's my understanding. Obviously, don't have any firsthand
knowledge of that. You've seen it, were degiting. Yeah, so
once that happened, I'm like, uh, oh, now it's a problem.
Now you may say something different, but I just know
that this is the way those stories tend to go.
(06:16):
Everyone is talking about Tyree Nichols and how much of
a skater he was and how cool he was and
how he was such a kind person or whatever. That
that's not the first time that happened. Yeah, people may
have been able to find out, oh, seven years ago
George Floyd did this, and oh yeah, that one guy.
He did this a long time ago, and oh yeah,
he smoked a joint in high school whatever, you know,
(06:36):
and try to make these people all look like criminals.
They darken their photographs when they put their their pictures
up on the news and that sort of stuff to
try to make them look more sinister. And they couldn't
do that with Tyree. But we know that that's just
the media trying to reach and really police trying to
reach to try to you know, achieve it as a
(06:59):
more artel the way of describing it, but effectually, what
he says is that they're trying to erode some of
the sympathy from the popular, uh consensus view vantage point.
So again, we didn't have to be perfect in order
to get him up on some some silly stuff or
(07:20):
you know, beat up or even killed on the side
of the road. Right, So I'm in full panic mode.
All the alarm bells are going on because there's no
reason for them to take you out of the car
where I can't see him. So what do I do?
Because I know what's coming next. They're about to come
to this car and they're going to take me out
of the car too. I wasn't even driving the car. Now,
(07:43):
first off, it's not my way to abandon nobody. If
you're going down, I'm going down with you. I'm just
made that way. So if that ever happens, especially if
your name is Yup. But I didn't even do anything,
and I know that they're coming back to me. I
wasn't driving the car, nothing right, So what do I do.
(08:06):
I'm like, Okay, the only thing I have is my phone.
But we've been bumping outcasts the whole time, and we
don't have charges for this car. Maybe Q was plugged
up and I wasn't, you know. I was thinking we
can charging to the hotel. I'm buying and charging we
didn't have, so there you go. Yeah. So I'm like,
let me turn on my phone and record this. The
(08:28):
problem is, again I'm not new to this. I'm true
to this. I don't record it because if something happens,
I can't get that footage out. They can go on
my phone and delete it. We've seen police officers do
that too. So I go on Facebook Live. Remember I
told you the backstory. It's twenty twenty. People is in
the streets, active people knows I petition people outside, Yes,
(08:53):
mad and everybody's at home looking at Facebook because ain't
nobody at work, right. It was a little later in
the day for people back home. Of course, we're on
the East Coast. The benefit though, is that people were
still awake where we're from. Yeah, two in the morning
on the East Coast, it's eleven o'clock at night, and
a lot of people that we know on their phone, DJs,
(09:15):
people that work in night life, people that don't have
traditional nine to fives. They up. Yep. So I go
on Facebook Live because y'all about to see whatever's about
to happen. Okay, So I turn on my Facebook Live
and that's it. I just put my phone in the
dashboard kind of wedg died in there to wear. It's upright,
(09:36):
the phone is on me and sort of looking back.
The problem is that those police lights are so bright,
and I maybe you know it's for the police officers protection,
and maybe you know, but I one of the things
that I don't love, like I do want police to
be protected. Of course, they're the human beings. They're endowed
(09:58):
with consciousness from our common creator, and therefore I want
them to be protected. But I also want our lives
to be prioritized too, right, and so people are who
it's through the officers protection, like somehow their life is
more valuable, you know what I mean, the life of
the men who are carrying guns more valuable than those
of us who are just driving our cars. And I
(10:19):
disagree with that. You're not wrong, but that's something that
I fundamentally disagree with. I think that a life is
a life, you know, a human life especially. I recognize
that we eat animals and step on bugs and that
sort of thing. I don't step on bugs, but you know, anyway,
So now my Facebook is picking up and people are
(10:42):
jumping in because they can see sirens. That read first
thing you see when you ah rams is live. Oh yeah,
you jump on and you see spotlight and sirens. Yeah.
So after or red and blue lights? Yeah yeah, red
and blue lights. Right. So after a minute or so,
(11:04):
now I'm not talking to the camera. I'm trying to
hide it so that the officer doesn't, you know whatever.
So the officer comes back and he's talking to me
with that thick accent. He's standing behind the pillar in
the car, so you know, the a window. I'm in
the passenger seat, so on my right side, there's a
pillar just behind my head that's almost kind of parallel
(11:27):
with the seat. So he's standing behind that pillar speaking
to me, but I can't see him, so again, I
don't know what he looks like, none of that. And
I hear that that Mississippi accent. I'm like, oh man,
this is this is bad. But the thing is that
people on Facebook are here too, so now people like
(11:48):
where is Ramses where? You know? And someone had put
in the uh the comments because you can interact with
the live feed that Ramses is in Mississippi. Right, So,
just like I thought, the officer asks for my ID,
and I wasn't being combative at all, but I'm like,
(12:11):
I'm just curious, what is it about me that makes
you want or need my ID, just so that I
know what we're dealing with here. And he's like, you know,
whatever he said standard procedure was just made some so
I just want to know make sure whatever whatever he's on.
But I don't have a problem. Here's my ID. Take it,
you know.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Now.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
My idea is I can say it on the radio.
My idea is beat up and had that ID since
I had an ID and it is old and the
only club I have to go to I own it,
and any other clubs that I have to go to,
the people know me. I don't go out unless I'm invited,
and usually they're paying me, so ID is never important.
(12:55):
And then so anyway, I got this beat up. ID
takes it, he looks at it and takes down the information,
gives it back to me, makes a comment about the
idea or whatever. But that's that. So I'm thinking, Okay,
we're cool. And then he says, I need you to
step out of the car, and I'm like, oh man,
And I knew it was coming. So now I'm like, okay,
(13:16):
let me jump out the car. And I asked him.
I was like, so what is it about me that
I need to get out of the car. He's like, man, listen,
just get out of the car. Walk back to to
the car with me to my police car. And again,
like you said, I don't want to argue with this man,
So I jump out of the car. Right then my
(13:37):
phone dies, So everybody watching on Facebook, the screen just
goes black and then the live feed has ended. The
live session is ended, so now everybody at home the
last thing they heard was this officer asking Rams to
get out of the car, where Q is what's happening
with you? They don't know yet because RAM just wasn't
(13:57):
able to narrate. I couldn't figure it out. I couldn't
see so before I have to kind of rewind because
to tell both stories you kind of have to jump
back and forth a little bit, because our stories at
some point become the same. But during this part of it,
there are two very very different stories happening. I step
(14:18):
out of the car and I turn around and I
see that this state trooper it's black, and my heart
rate slows down. So this is the interesting part. My
heart rate didn't slow down because I was going to
be okay. My heart rates slowed down because I felt
(14:41):
like I wasn't about to be killed at least that
And what a notion that I felt that way today?
What a notion because now I see because in Mississippi
at three o'clock in the morning, if these white state
troopers and white Highway patrol officers pull us out of
(15:06):
this car it's Porsche, this could go really, really bad.
And somehow to me, seeing that this first officer was black,
because I haven't seen the second officer yet, made me
feel like I wouldn't die that night, which means every
(15:27):
moment prior to that I felt like I might. And
that is a crippling level of fear because you can't
logic your way out of it. I already know I
haven't done anything that would lead to me being asked
to get out of my car. I already know that
(15:47):
it does not require me to be non compliant or
aggressive or violent or a criminal for them to escalate
this to something awful. I know that if you didn't
look like you, and you look like pick a person
who's not black, that it would have happened. Well, more specifically,
picked someone that is white. Yeah, that's that's what I'm
(16:10):
going for. I know you don't like when I do that,
But sixty five year old white, no corporate executives, just white.
Ram just thinks all those other factors. It just it
just helps you. It helps you to visualize if I
was justin Bieber, not even him, but looked like him,
it'd be the same. I wouldn't have to be sixty
five in corporate I wouldn't have to have a suit
on be old year olds. Being white would help a lot.
(16:33):
I get it. And the reason I know this is
because you guys, have no such video of someone that
doesn't look like me being beat to death by police
officers for no reason. It doesn't exist, because, trust me,
the system that runs the country that we live in
would have made sure that we saw it by now,
(16:55):
over and over again to prove that they're not as
racist that as we say they are. I go to
the back of the car and I start two different conversations,
one of them with a Mississippi State trooper, the other
one with a black man that just so happens to
(17:21):
either be a sheriff or a highway patrol officer. Two
very very distinctly different interactions. The black man that walks
that I'm sorry, that works as a member of the
law enforcement community, has a very human being conversation with him.
How you doing, brother? Where you from? Where? Where you
(17:46):
guys headed? Oh? You guys came all the way from
out there. What do you do? Oh you do that?
I know somebody that does that. It's a really human
being conversation, which again creates my heart makes my heart
rate slow down a little bit more. Except officer other
(18:07):
guy is going to make sure this feels like an
interaction with law enforcement in Mississippi at three o'clock in
the morning and you're black, yep, and he was black.
It was the wildest thing. Now Ramses gets out of
the car, so I'm walking back to the sound of
his voice. My phone is off, so I'm like, dang,
(18:30):
nobody's even seeing this. So now my heart is hitting hard,
and everything that man tells me to do, I'm doing
it exactly the way that he says to do it.
Robot like, yep, you not. I need you to stand
right here, right here. This is where I'm standing, and
I'm standing behind Ramses, behind the car watching this interaction.
(18:52):
I didn't turn my head. I didn't turn my nothing.
No sudden movements, no, no movements period. Like if this
is the direction I'm facing it, you all over there
having the comers, and then I'm gonna just stay for
you didn't tell me I could look that way, right.
So here's where it gets interesting. So far, you're like, Okay,
(19:14):
two black guys pulled over in Mississippi driving a nice car.
Officers wanted to pull them out, just talk to him
a little bit. Whatever. The system judges us unfairly. The
system causes these people to take on prejudices against their
(19:38):
own people. The system causes people to associate traits and
characteristics with blackness that aren't necessarily there. It's something that's
very important to say. You know, there's this statistic that
you know, it shared on right wing commentators and sites
(20:03):
and you know places around the internet. Black people commit
the majority of the crimes, right, and they have the
data to back it up or whatever. Right, And it's
the that that information is flawed, uh, in that black
people get arrested more frequently for for crimes criminal activity,
(20:30):
and if you want to dig deeper, black communities are
over policed and and so then you start to see
why data could look that way. But it starts with
interactions like this one. So what happens next, Well, as
awkward as I am and I'm standing there, we're out
there for hours with these people, they start shaking us down. Hey,
(20:54):
so what are you guys doing? You know, he starts
shaking him that the one, the one officer, officer black
as he was was shaking us down, right, what are
you guys doing? Blah blah blah. Stand well, you know,
and he was answering all the questions. I don't have
nothing to say. I don't know if you go all
the way to Florida to get a car, because it's
a nice car, and we got to go very very
specific car that she wanted that I went to get. Yeah. Anyway,
(21:18):
so then you guys got any drugs in the car? Well,
he already answered that. No, I've never done a drug.
He's never done a drug. We don't sell drugs when
we're radio people. We're DJed. That's not what we do.
All right, Well, do you mind if I search the car? Absolutely?
Please search the cars. But actually, of course we do, right,
(21:38):
because you're supposed to have a warrant for that. However, Mississippi,
and it's three o'clock in the morning and our it's
black and we're terrified. So sir, anything that you could
do that would mean we can get back in the
car and leave here alive. That'd be tight, right, So
(22:00):
go for it. So watch this. Now, searches the car.
Nothing comes up. Of course, nothing came up. The car
is new and it's us. So we're like, okay, cool,
we can get up out of here. No, so I'm
gonna go ahead and get the dog out here to
smell the car. So now we got to wait for
the dog, they get drug, the drug sniffing dog. Right,
(22:23):
so they walk in, they walk the dog around the car. Okay,
brand new car, put the dog back, and then comes back,
tells them how brand new we left the dealership? Yeah,
the car, it's not over to where we are, that's it.
The dog gets put back away, and then the same cop,
(22:44):
super cop comes back and it's like, yeah, well, the
dog indicated the presidence of drugs in the car, so
we're going to have to do another search, another search
of the car. Right, So he goes back around, of course,
finds nothing, then gives us the lamest excuse I've ever heard.
He said that somebody may have had a joint in
(23:05):
their pocket and put maybe brushed up against the side
of the car when we stopped to get gas in Alabama,
and the dog could smell the person bumping up against
the side of the car despite us driving for hours,
dogs and the wind blowing, what smelling sensories than us
something like that. So there's no version of the conversation
(23:30):
that we're having about the Tyree Nichols situation, or really
any of this stuff that means more to us than
our own lived experience. We do recognize that the policing
as an institution is biased against us. It presupposes and
it assumes it, and it prejudges people like us. And
if you get the wrong one on the wrong night
(23:51):
and do everything right cost your life. You can see
if you do everything right, if you do the if
you have a mental health, anything like this, We're playing
a life and death game. And it feels like it's
only us and we were born to lose. And so
I say once again, it is not a black and
white issue, it is a blue issue. Moving on, it's
(24:16):
time for the Way Black History Fact. Today's Way Black
History Fact is sponsored by the Black Information Network Daily Podcasts,
and today we are going to talk about money. Money.
Wealth indeed shapes outcomes with respect to pretty much everything politics,
(24:45):
certainly with the criminal justices, not even pretty much everything, Bro.
You can just flat out say it, healthcare, everything in
this country specifically. So I came across the story for
our Way Black History Fact that I thought was pertinent.
That helps folks to know that we weren't born to
(25:05):
just be poor. We weren't just born to get beat
up by the police or commit crimes or whatever. We
have done our best at several points in history, to
come together, to build our community, to pool our resources,
to invest in ourselves. Once upon a time we could
(25:26):
not depend on the government, because well we still can't.
But you know what I'm trying to say, You know
what I mean, thanks for that look, by the way,
But once upon a time that was not even a question.
We had to do it ourselves, and we did. And
this is part of what I want to share today.
So I will read Booker T. Washington, the founder of
(25:51):
the Tuskegee Institute and the son of slaves, once wrote,
by habits of thrift and economy, we are coming up.
The American dream is deeply rooted in the belief that
thrifting and saving are the necessary needs to an end
that is comprised of prosperity and abundance. This belief, coupled
(26:12):
with the banking needs of formerly enslaved black soldiers, spurred
the incorporation of the Freedmen's Savings and Trust Company in
eighteen sixty five. Quote this bank is just what the
freedmen need, proclaimed Abraham Lincoln on March third, eighteen sixty five,
(26:33):
as he signed the Freedman's Bank Act and authorized the
organization of a National Bank for ex slaves, due in
part to aggressive recruiting tactics, The number of ex slave
depositors grew rapidly. From eighteen sixty five to eighteen seventy.
Thirty four branches were established in cities across the nation,
including Atlanta, Charleston, Philadelphia, and Washington.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
D c.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Quote go in any form noon, and the offices found
full of negroes depositing little sums of money, drawing little sums,
or remitting to a distant part of the country where
they have relatives to support or debts to discharge. Unquote.
This is reported in the Charleston Journal in eighteen sixty seven. Right.
(27:22):
And yet thrifting and saving did not yield desired results.
The dream of prosperity and abundance slowly spiraled into a
nightmare of fraud, mismanagement, and discriminatory lending. In eighteen seventy one,
Congress authorized banks to provide business loans and mortgages. Paradoxically,
such mortgages and loans were usually administered to whites at
(27:45):
the expense of black depositors. Of course, risky investments and
lending patterns coupled with cronyism and corruption at the level
of upper management slowly undermine the stability of the bank,
according to Black past quote and by eighteen seventy four,
(28:07):
massive fraud among upper management and among the board of directors.
Mind you, these are white folks, or at least mostly.
I know that part because I actually did read that
part in a different article. This, by the way, comes
from Black enterprise. Border directors had taken its toll in
the bank. Moreover, economic instability brought upon by the Panic
(28:30):
of eighteen seventy three, coupled with the bank's rapid expansion,
proved disastrous unquote. The Freedman Bank was officially closed in
June twenty ninth, eighteen seventy four. At the point of closing,
six thousand, one or sorry, sixty one and forty four
black depositors were robbed of the modern equivalent of sixty
six million dollars.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Failure of the bank left many black depositors and borrowers
distrustful of the white banking community, especially since the Freedman's
Bank was established and managed by white men. So in short,
so far white people were managing the bank where the
(29:11):
earnings of ex slaves were being deposited. They used that
money to make more risky loans on the go ahead.
Talk to me. I don't know that a greater human
(29:32):
trait or characteristic exist than the love, trust, empathy, and
perpetual forgiveness of black people to America. Yeah, white men
established and ran a bank for free black people and
(29:54):
stole their money from them. Yeah, well it goes on,
so I'll read the In subsequent years, the white banking
community has imposed higher interest rates on black borrowers or
simply rejected their applications for mortgages and small business loans.
Although black depositors should be far less concerned about being
overtly robbed of their money, today, research indicates that blacks
continue to be treated far worse than whites when seeking
(30:16):
loans or mortgages, even when all other variables such as
credit history or academic and professional credentials are the same. Quote.
If you are white and set up and set out
to get financing for an entrepreneurial venture, it might be
a tough journey, said Glenn Christensen, professor of marketing at
Brigham Young University. He goes on, but generally speaking, you
would experience fewer obstacles and find more help along the
(30:37):
way than if you came from African American or Hispanic background,
and then we'll wrap it up here. In recognition of
these age old disparities and access to a growing number
of community leaders are supporting black owned banking institutions. Quote
empower Empowerment starts with ownership unquote, explained a renowned singer
song Sorry, explain renowned singer songwriter Sure, during a Black
(31:01):
History Month appearance at the bank It's sorry at the
black owned citizens Trust Bank in Atlanta. He continues, we're
here supporting citizens Trust Bank as a black bank, but
it also stands for the support of all the black
business businesses that they support. It's all about supporting our own. Uh.
And I think we'll just leave it right there. So yeah,
(31:26):
you're absolutely right to there's a lot of stories. This
is mind you This isn't you know Rosewood, This isn't
you know, I forget the name of the town in Florida.
This isn't you know Tulsa, Uh, where there was Blackwall Street.
You know, this isn't I think there was another establishment
(31:48):
that did really well politically and economically. And I want
to say it was either North or South Carolina. Uh.
But the Carolinas. And so this is a story that's
happened many times in history, and oftentimes black people lose
(32:09):
out and white men would benefit from it. And so
it's important to understand your history, y'all, just so we
know where we stand and where we're going and how
to best be there for each other. We don't hate anyone,
We just need to tell the truth right and that's
what we do each and every week here on Civic Cipher.
So once again, I am your host, Ramsy's jaw he
(32:30):
iss jah. I am q ward love. That's my message. Love.
We are the greatest example of love that the world
has ever seen. And we appreciate you listening to us
each and every week. If you want to support us
at the website Civic cipher dot com, submit any questions,
any topics, anything you want us to cover, make a donation,
(32:53):
and follow us on all social media at Civic Cipher.
And I want to make a correction. Last week we
said that there were eighty million slaves that drowned in
the little Passage. That number was misquoted. Uh, it's somewhere
between one and four million. So once again, thanks for
listening to sim Cipher and we'll talk to y'alls.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, like Yo, we had to live These brothers a
fabulous the our lady showing you where Rob travel is
speak tune from sunlight to move, busting on stage like
the fights and move rove my mic back. You're like
that journalist with journalist too. We can strike back called
borders with waters from headquarters behind in the beline.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Sides up and the borders with press passing. We bring
it to you as it happits.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
The streets, love moping from music, you're wrapping the street
compand the slash pet expando. You're going to fight the
slander with the proper propaganda.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
What's happening? It's how you've got any questions to ask?
If Deduce is just a TV show? You're passing?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
And this from a white wartime journalist headlines wait God,
pre peace and.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Resist like this like what like this? Like is us
And now my mic back you're like that.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Strikes from head borders behind him.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
And then for those of who just tuning in the
civic cipher, I'm your host, Ramses John, he is Ramses John,
I am h Ward. You are now and again tuned
in to civic cycling. And that's the truth, all right,
So stick around. We've got a little bit more story
to tell you. Uh again, it's not black and it's
not white. It's not black or white. It's not black
(00:33):
versus white. It's blue. Okay, it's a lot more than blue,
but we're gonna start with the blue to help y'all
to see what reality looks like, and then we're gonna
slowly work from there to explain all these other less
visible forces that don't get recorded. But today we're talking
about how it's not black or white, it's blue. And
(00:55):
we're also gonna spend some time talking about, uh, a
enormous bank robbery where the largest in the country came
from black people by white owned banks and it was
very sad. But right about now we are going to
teach you how to be aba that has become a
(01:15):
better ally baba. So today's Baba sponsored by major Threads
for the finest in menswear, checkout major threads dot com.
And if you would like to become a better ally,
we're inviting you to check out the NAACP that's at
NAACP dot org. I got a note from them. It
says last week the world watched with horror as the
(01:36):
city of Memphis released the footage from the heinous police
brutality that killed Tyree Nichols. The police officers involved have
been charged, but there's far from that is far from enough.
We have run out of thoughts and prayers. Thoughts and
prayers do not change the lack of regard for black lives.
Ten thousand urgent signatures are needed at your name now
to urge Congress to past critical police reform legislation to
(01:58):
end police brutality. Ending the inhumane and unjustified trauma police
violence against black Americans is going to take more than
what we've seen from people in power today. There's not
a single federal law on the books addressing police violence.
We are making sure Congress knows that failing to act
now means writing another obituary. We need real legislative action
now so no one experiences this kind of horrific violence
(02:20):
at the handles the law enforcement. Ever, again that's from
the NAACP. Again, NAACP dot org. They do have a
fund where you can donate for this as well. And
this is important. You know, we're not all going to
agree on what the best thing to do is, but
(02:41):
the NAACP is doing something. And if you're doing nothing
right now, then you can at least help some organization
do something because what we're seeing right now it's hurtful
and it's awful, and it's clearly not working. And so
now's not the time to to play the politics game.
(03:02):
We need to move the needle in a lot of arenas,
this being, you know, one of the ones that we
have to talk about because it's important in this arena
for us. So check out the NBACP. All right, now
back to our story. So Q has stepped out of
(03:23):
the car and I'm still in the car. Now. I
know full well I'm not new to this. I don't
want you to think that I got active in twenty
twenty and then read a couple of books and then
(03:44):
I was like on my level, on my square. No,
I've been this person. For those that are not familiar,
Q's mom and my dad are both preachers, and in
the black community, more often than not, the the preachers
are the ones who obviously they're your spiritual advisors and
(04:06):
so forth, but they're also kind of like community leaders, right,
So us being children of ministers meant that we also
had a dose of take care of your community, protect
your community. So for me, since a young age, I
always knew that that was going to be a part
(04:30):
of my existence forevermore. I was born into a group
that is considered disadvantaged by every meaningful metric in this country,
and it is my job to know that and work
against that. Right and so I've read books my whole life,
(04:50):
you know, my study. You know, for those that watch
the show or listen to the show and are familiar
with doctor Westernberg, I met doctor Westernberg when I was nineteen.
She was my teacher. So for past twenty one years
she has been influencing me and providing me with deeper insight.
(05:10):
I was the president of the Black Student Union when
I was in college. She was the advisor. So this
gives you a little bit of an idea. So when
we're pulled over in Mississippi and they ask you to
get out of the car again very clearly, we're not drunk,
and he asked you to step back. And remember, I
(05:31):
can't see out that window, so I don't know what's
happening with Q. Not only is there a bright spotlight,
but I've now stepped out of view. Out of view.
So he didn't say, hey, I want to give you
sobriety tell He didn't say any of that. He's hey,
just step back back here, and you listen to Q talk.
He talks like that all the time. Drunk people sound different,
they look different, they move different, or people on drugs
(05:54):
or whatever. That's my understanding. Obviously, don't have any firsthand
knowledge of that. You've seen it, were degiting. Yeah, so
once that happened, I'm like, uh, oh, now it's a problem.
Now you may say something different, but I just know
that this is the way those stories tend to go.
(06:16):
Everyone is talking about Tyree Nichols and how much of
a skater he was and how cool he was and
how he was such a kind person or whatever. That
that's not the first time that happened. Yeah, people may
have been able to find out, oh, seven years ago
George Floyd did this, and oh yeah, that one guy.
He did this a long time ago, and oh yeah,
he smoked a joint in high school whatever, you know,
(06:36):
and try to make these people all look like criminals.
They darken their photographs when they put their their pictures
up on the news and that sort of stuff to
try to make them look more sinister. And they couldn't
do that with Tyree. But we know that that's just
the media trying to reach and really police trying to
reach to try to you know, achieve it as a
(06:59):
more artel the way of describing it, but effectually, what
he says is that they're trying to erode some of
the sympathy from the popular, uh consensus view vantage point.
So again, we didn't have to be perfect in order
to get him up on some some silly stuff or
(07:20):
you know, beat up or even killed on the side
of the road. Right, So I'm in full panic mode.
All the alarm bells are going on because there's no
reason for them to take you out of the car
where I can't see him. So what do I do?
Because I know what's coming next. They're about to come
to this car and they're going to take me out
of the car too. I wasn't even driving the car. Now,
(07:43):
first off, it's not my way to abandon nobody. If
you're going down, I'm going down with you. I'm just
made that way. So if that ever happens, especially if
your name is Yup. But I didn't even do anything,
and I know that they're coming back to me. I
wasn't driving the car, nothing right, So what do I do.
(08:06):
I'm like, Okay, the only thing I have is my phone.
But we've been bumping outcasts the whole time, and we
don't have charges for this car. Maybe Q was plugged
up and I wasn't, you know. I was thinking we
can charging to the hotel. I'm buying and charging we
didn't have, so there you go. Yeah. So I'm like,
let me turn on my phone and record this. The
(08:28):
problem is, again I'm not new to this. I'm true
to this. I don't record it because if something happens,
I can't get that footage out. They can go on
my phone and delete it. We've seen police officers do
that too. So I go on Facebook Live. Remember I
told you the backstory. It's twenty twenty. People is in
the streets, active people knows I petition people outside, Yes,
(08:53):
mad and everybody's at home looking at Facebook because ain't
nobody at work, right. It was a little later in
the day for people back home. Of course, we're on
the East Coast. The benefit though, is that people were
still awake where we're from. Yeah, two in the morning
on the East Coast, it's eleven o'clock at night, and
a lot of people that we know on their phone, DJs,
(09:15):
people that work in night life, people that don't have
traditional nine to fives. They up. Yep. So I go
on Facebook Live because y'all about to see whatever's about
to happen. Okay, So I turn on my Facebook Live
and that's it. I just put my phone in the
dashboard kind of wedg died in there to wear. It's upright,
(09:36):
the phone is on me and sort of looking back.
The problem is that those police lights are so bright,
and I maybe you know it's for the police officers protection,
and maybe you know, but I one of the things
that I don't love, like I do want police to
be protected. Of course, they're the human beings. They're endowed
(09:58):
with consciousness from our common creator, and therefore I want
them to be protected. But I also want our lives
to be prioritized too, right, and so people are who
it's through the officers protection, like somehow their life is
more valuable, you know what I mean, the life of
the men who are carrying guns more valuable than those
of us who are just driving our cars. And I
(10:19):
disagree with that. You're not wrong, but that's something that
I fundamentally disagree with. I think that a life is
a life, you know, a human life especially. I recognize
that we eat animals and step on bugs and that
sort of thing. I don't step on bugs, but you know, anyway,
So now my Facebook is picking up and people are
(10:42):
jumping in because they can see sirens. That read first
thing you see when you ah rams is live. Oh yeah,
you jump on and you see spotlight and sirens. Yeah.
So after or red and blue lights? Yeah yeah, red
and blue lights. Right. So after a minute or so,
(11:04):
now I'm not talking to the camera. I'm trying to
hide it so that the officer doesn't, you know whatever.
So the officer comes back and he's talking to me
with that thick accent. He's standing behind the pillar in
the car, so you know, the a window. I'm in
the passenger seat, so on my right side, there's a
pillar just behind my head that's almost kind of parallel
(11:27):
with the seat. So he's standing behind that pillar speaking
to me, but I can't see him, so again, I
don't know what he looks like, none of that. And
I hear that that Mississippi accent. I'm like, oh man,
this is this is bad. But the thing is that
people on Facebook are here too, so now people like
(11:48):
where is Ramses where? You know? And someone had put
in the uh the comments because you can interact with
the live feed that Ramses is in Mississippi. Right, So,
just like I thought, the officer asks for my ID,
and I wasn't being combative at all, but I'm like,
(12:11):
I'm just curious, what is it about me that makes
you want or need my ID, just so that I
know what we're dealing with here. And he's like, you know,
whatever he said standard procedure was just made some so
I just want to know make sure whatever whatever he's on.
But I don't have a problem. Here's my ID. Take it,
you know.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Now.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
My idea is I can say it on the radio.
My idea is beat up and had that ID since
I had an ID and it is old and the
only club I have to go to I own it,
and any other clubs that I have to go to,
the people know me. I don't go out unless I'm invited,
and usually they're paying me, so ID is never important.
(12:55):
And then so anyway, I got this beat up. ID
takes it, he looks at it and takes down the information,
gives it back to me, makes a comment about the
idea or whatever. But that's that. So I'm thinking, Okay,
we're cool. And then he says, I need you to
step out of the car, and I'm like, oh man,
And I knew it was coming. So now I'm like, okay,
(13:16):
let me jump out the car. And I asked him.
I was like, so what is it about me that
I need to get out of the car. He's like, man, listen,
just get out of the car. Walk back to to
the car with me to my police car. And again,
like you said, I don't want to argue with this man,
So I jump out of the car. Right then my
(13:37):
phone dies, So everybody watching on Facebook, the screen just
goes black and then the live feed has ended. The
live session is ended, so now everybody at home the
last thing they heard was this officer asking Rams to
get out of the car, where Q is what's happening
with you? They don't know yet because RAM just wasn't
(13:57):
able to narrate. I couldn't figure it out. I couldn't
see so before I have to kind of rewind because
to tell both stories you kind of have to jump
back and forth a little bit, because our stories at
some point become the same. But during this part of it,
there are two very very different stories happening. I step
(14:18):
out of the car and I turn around and I
see that this state trooper it's black, and my heart
rate slows down. So this is the interesting part. My
heart rate didn't slow down because I was going to
be okay. My heart rates slowed down because I felt
(14:41):
like I wasn't about to be killed at least that
And what a notion that I felt that way today?
What a notion because now I see because in Mississippi
at three o'clock in the morning, if these white state
troopers and white Highway patrol officers pull us out of
(15:06):
this car it's Porsche, this could go really, really bad.
And somehow to me, seeing that this first officer was black,
because I haven't seen the second officer yet, made me
feel like I wouldn't die that night, which means every
(15:27):
moment prior to that I felt like I might. And
that is a crippling level of fear because you can't
logic your way out of it. I already know I
haven't done anything that would lead to me being asked
to get out of my car. I already know that
(15:47):
it does not require me to be non compliant or
aggressive or violent or a criminal for them to escalate
this to something awful. I know that if you didn't
look like you, and you look like pick a person
who's not black, that it would have happened. Well, more specifically,
picked someone that is white. Yeah, that's that's what I'm
(16:10):
going for. I know you don't like when I do that,
But sixty five year old white, no corporate executives, just white.
Ram just thinks all those other factors. It just it
just helps you. It helps you to visualize if I
was justin Bieber, not even him, but looked like him,
it'd be the same. I wouldn't have to be sixty
five in corporate I wouldn't have to have a suit
on be old year olds. Being white would help a lot.
(16:33):
I get it. And the reason I know this is
because you guys, have no such video of someone that
doesn't look like me being beat to death by police
officers for no reason. It doesn't exist, because, trust me,
the system that runs the country that we live in
would have made sure that we saw it by now,
(16:55):
over and over again to prove that they're not as
racist that as we say they are. I go to
the back of the car and I start two different conversations,
one of them with a Mississippi State trooper, the other
one with a black man that just so happens to
(17:21):
either be a sheriff or a highway patrol officer. Two
very very distinctly different interactions. The black man that walks
that I'm sorry, that works as a member of the
law enforcement community, has a very human being conversation with him.
How you doing, brother? Where you from? Where? Where you
(17:46):
guys headed? Oh? You guys came all the way from
out there. What do you do? Oh you do that?
I know somebody that does that. It's a really human
being conversation, which again creates my heart makes my heart
rate slow down a little bit more. Except officer other
(18:07):
guy is going to make sure this feels like an
interaction with law enforcement in Mississippi at three o'clock in
the morning and you're black, yep, and he was black.
It was the wildest thing. Now Ramses gets out of
the car, so I'm walking back to the sound of
his voice. My phone is off, so I'm like, dang,
(18:30):
nobody's even seeing this. So now my heart is hitting hard,
and everything that man tells me to do, I'm doing
it exactly the way that he says to do it.
Robot like, yep, you not. I need you to stand
right here, right here. This is where I'm standing, and
I'm standing behind Ramses, behind the car watching this interaction.
(18:52):
I didn't turn my head. I didn't turn my nothing.
No sudden movements, no, no movements period. Like if this
is the direction I'm facing it, you all over there
having the comers, and then I'm gonna just stay for
you didn't tell me I could look that way, right.
So here's where it gets interesting. So far, you're like, Okay,
(19:14):
two black guys pulled over in Mississippi driving a nice car.
Officers wanted to pull them out, just talk to him
a little bit. Whatever. The system judges us unfairly. The
system causes these people to take on prejudices against their
(19:38):
own people. The system causes people to associate traits and
characteristics with blackness that aren't necessarily there. It's something that's
very important to say. You know, there's this statistic that
you know, it shared on right wing commentators and sites
(20:03):
and you know places around the internet. Black people commit
the majority of the crimes, right, and they have the
data to back it up or whatever. Right, And it's
the that that information is flawed, uh, in that black
people get arrested more frequently for for crimes criminal activity,
(20:30):
and if you want to dig deeper, black communities are
over policed and and so then you start to see
why data could look that way. But it starts with
interactions like this one. So what happens next, Well, as
awkward as I am and I'm standing there, we're out
there for hours with these people, they start shaking us down. Hey,
(20:54):
so what are you guys doing? You know, he starts
shaking him that the one, the one officer, officer black
as he was was shaking us down, right, what are
you guys doing? Blah blah blah. Stand well, you know,
and he was answering all the questions. I don't have
nothing to say. I don't know if you go all
the way to Florida to get a car, because it's
a nice car, and we got to go very very
specific car that she wanted that I went to get. Yeah. Anyway,
(21:18):
so then you guys got any drugs in the car? Well,
he already answered that. No, I've never done a drug.
He's never done a drug. We don't sell drugs when
we're radio people. We're DJed. That's not what we do.
All right, Well, do you mind if I search the car? Absolutely?
Please search the cars. But actually, of course we do, right,
(21:38):
because you're supposed to have a warrant for that. However, Mississippi,
and it's three o'clock in the morning and our it's
black and we're terrified. So sir, anything that you could
do that would mean we can get back in the
car and leave here alive. That'd be tight, right, So
(22:00):
go for it. So watch this. Now, searches the car.
Nothing comes up. Of course, nothing came up. The car
is new and it's us. So we're like, okay, cool,
we can get up out of here. No, so I'm
gonna go ahead and get the dog out here to
smell the car. So now we got to wait for
the dog, they get drug, the drug sniffing dog. Right,
(22:23):
so they walk in, they walk the dog around the car. Okay,
brand new car, put the dog back, and then comes back,
tells them how brand new we left the dealership? Yeah,
the car, it's not over to where we are, that's it.
The dog gets put back away, and then the same cop,
(22:44):
super cop comes back and it's like, yeah, well, the
dog indicated the presidence of drugs in the car, so
we're going to have to do another search, another search
of the car. Right, So he goes back around, of course,
finds nothing, then gives us the lamest excuse I've ever heard.
He said that somebody may have had a joint in
(23:05):
their pocket and put maybe brushed up against the side
of the car when we stopped to get gas in Alabama,
and the dog could smell the person bumping up against
the side of the car despite us driving for hours,
dogs and the wind blowing, what smelling sensories than us
something like that. So there's no version of the conversation
(23:30):
that we're having about the Tyree Nichols situation, or really
any of this stuff that means more to us than
our own lived experience. We do recognize that the policing
as an institution is biased against us. It presupposes and
it assumes it, and it prejudges people like us. And
if you get the wrong one on the wrong night
(23:51):
and do everything right cost your life. You can see
if you do everything right, if you do the if
you have a mental health, anything like this, We're playing
a life and death game. And it feels like it's
only us and we were born to lose. And so
I say once again, it is not a black and
white issue, it is a blue issue. Moving on, it's
(24:16):
time for the Way Black History Fact. Today's Way Black
History Fact is sponsored by the Black Information Network Daily Podcasts,
and today we are going to talk about money. Money.
Wealth indeed shapes outcomes with respect to pretty much everything politics,
(24:45):
certainly with the criminal justices, not even pretty much everything, Bro.
You can just flat out say it, healthcare, everything in
this country specifically. So I came across the story for
our Way Black History Fact that I thought was pertinent.
That helps folks to know that we weren't born to
(25:05):
just be poor. We weren't just born to get beat
up by the police or commit crimes or whatever. We
have done our best at several points in history, to
come together, to build our community, to pool our resources,
to invest in ourselves. Once upon a time we could
(25:26):
not depend on the government, because well we still can't.
But you know what I'm trying to say, You know
what I mean, thanks for that look, by the way,
But once upon a time that was not even a question.
We had to do it ourselves, and we did. And
this is part of what I want to share today.
So I will read Booker T. Washington, the founder of
(25:51):
the Tuskegee Institute and the son of slaves, once wrote,
by habits of thrift and economy, we are coming up.
The American dream is deeply rooted in the belief that
thrifting and saving are the necessary needs to an end
that is comprised of prosperity and abundance. This belief, coupled
(26:12):
with the banking needs of formerly enslaved black soldiers, spurred
the incorporation of the Freedmen's Savings and Trust Company in
eighteen sixty five. Quote this bank is just what the
freedmen need, proclaimed Abraham Lincoln on March third, eighteen sixty five,
(26:33):
as he signed the Freedman's Bank Act and authorized the
organization of a National Bank for ex slaves, due in
part to aggressive recruiting tactics, The number of ex slave
depositors grew rapidly. From eighteen sixty five to eighteen seventy.
Thirty four branches were established in cities across the nation,
including Atlanta, Charleston, Philadelphia, and Washington.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
D c.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Quote go in any form noon, and the offices found
full of negroes depositing little sums of money, drawing little sums,
or remitting to a distant part of the country where
they have relatives to support or debts to discharge. Unquote.
This is reported in the Charleston Journal in eighteen sixty seven. Right.
(27:22):
And yet thrifting and saving did not yield desired results.
The dream of prosperity and abundance slowly spiraled into a
nightmare of fraud, mismanagement, and discriminatory lending. In eighteen seventy one,
Congress authorized banks to provide business loans and mortgages. Paradoxically,
such mortgages and loans were usually administered to whites at
(27:45):
the expense of black depositors. Of course, risky investments and
lending patterns coupled with cronyism and corruption at the level
of upper management slowly undermine the stability of the bank,
according to Black past quote and by eighteen seventy four,
(28:07):
massive fraud among upper management and among the board of directors.
Mind you, these are white folks, or at least mostly.
I know that part because I actually did read that
part in a different article. This, by the way, comes
from Black enterprise. Border directors had taken its toll in
the bank. Moreover, economic instability brought upon by the Panic
(28:30):
of eighteen seventy three, coupled with the bank's rapid expansion,
proved disastrous unquote. The Freedman Bank was officially closed in
June twenty ninth, eighteen seventy four. At the point of closing,
six thousand, one or sorry, sixty one and forty four
black depositors were robbed of the modern equivalent of sixty
six million dollars.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Sure.
Speaker 1 (28:51):
Failure of the bank left many black depositors and borrowers
distrustful of the white banking community, especially since the Freedman's
Bank was established and managed by white men. So in short,
so far white people were managing the bank where the
(29:11):
earnings of ex slaves were being deposited. They used that
money to make more risky loans on the go ahead.
Talk to me. I don't know that a greater human
(29:32):
trait or characteristic exist than the love, trust, empathy, and
perpetual forgiveness of black people to America. Yeah, white men
established and ran a bank for free black people and
(29:54):
stole their money from them. Yeah, well it goes on,
so I'll read the In subsequent years, the white banking
community has imposed higher interest rates on black borrowers or
simply rejected their applications for mortgages and small business loans.
Although black depositors should be far less concerned about being
overtly robbed of their money, today, research indicates that blacks
continue to be treated far worse than whites when seeking
(30:16):
loans or mortgages, even when all other variables such as
credit history or academic and professional credentials are the same. Quote.
If you are white and set up and set out
to get financing for an entrepreneurial venture, it might be
a tough journey, said Glenn Christensen, professor of marketing at
Brigham Young University. He goes on, but generally speaking, you
would experience fewer obstacles and find more help along the
(30:37):
way than if you came from African American or Hispanic background,
and then we'll wrap it up here. In recognition of
these age old disparities and access to a growing number
of community leaders are supporting black owned banking institutions. Quote
empower Empowerment starts with ownership unquote, explained a renowned singer
song Sorry, explain renowned singer songwriter Sure, during a Black
(31:01):
History Month appearance at the bank It's sorry at the
black owned citizens Trust Bank in Atlanta. He continues, we're
here supporting citizens Trust Bank as a black bank, but
it also stands for the support of all the black
business businesses that they support. It's all about supporting our own. Uh.
And I think we'll just leave it right there. So yeah,
(31:26):
you're absolutely right to there's a lot of stories. This
is mind you This isn't you know Rosewood, This isn't
you know, I forget the name of the town in Florida.
This isn't you know Tulsa, Uh, where there was Blackwall Street.
You know, this isn't I think there was another establishment
(31:48):
that did really well politically and economically. And I want
to say it was either North or South Carolina. Uh.
But the Carolinas. And so this is a story that's
happened many times in history, and oftentimes black people lose
(32:09):
out and white men would benefit from it. And so
it's important to understand your history, y'all, just so we
know where we stand and where we're going and how
to best be there for each other. We don't hate anyone,
We just need to tell the truth right and that's
what we do each and every week here on Civic Cipher.
So once again, I am your host, Ramsy's jaw he
(32:30):
iss jah. I am q ward love. That's my message. Love.
We are the greatest example of love that the world
has ever seen. And we appreciate you listening to us
each and every week. If you want to support us
at the website Civic cipher dot com, submit any questions,
any topics, anything you want us to cover, make a donation,
(32:53):
and follow us on all social media at Civic Cipher.
And I want to make a correction. Last week we
said that there were eighty million slaves that drowned in
the little Passage. That number was misquoted. Uh, it's somewhere
between one and four million. So once again, thanks for
listening to sim Cipher and we'll talk to y'alls.
Speaker 2 (33:12):
Yeah, like Yo, we had to live These brothers a
fabulous the our lady showing you where Rob travel is
speak tune from sunlight to move, busting on stage like
the fights and move rove my mic back. You're like
that journalist with journalist too. We can strike back called
borders with waters from headquarters behind in the beline.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Sides up and the borders with press passing. We bring
it to you as it happits.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
The streets, love moping from music, you're wrapping the street
compand the slash pet expando. You're going to fight the
slander with the proper propaganda.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
What's happening? It's how you've got any questions to ask?
If Deduce is just a TV show? You're passing?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
And this from a white wartime journalist headlines wait God,
pre peace and.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Resist like this like what like this? Like is us
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