March 18, 2023 • 34 mins
We were recently asked ‘What is allyship and why is it important?’ This question sparked a stream of consciousness that we tried to capture in today’s episode. Often many folks consider themselves to be allies or are trying to learn and do more, but we break down our thoughts on what this means and just how far allyship can go!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And now watching my mic back, you're like that.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You can strike.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Waters from head borders behind in the line. All right,
and uh, if you're just tuning in the civic cipher,
i'my host Rams'.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Job, he is joh, I am q ward. You guys
go back with us once again, or one more again,
as my brother would say, that checking out another another.
We call our show an episode. You call it a
it's a good question, rendition, another installment, you know what
I'm saying, one of those, any of them.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I feel like all of it. I feel like it.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Feels like TV slash movie slash radio slash like. I
feel like we're in every media span. I think it's
the way let me shameless plug. Rams has built such
an incredible studio for us. It feels like we're on television,
in a movie, doing a podcast for the radio.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Well, I love that, and uh, in this studio, there's
a lot for you to stick around for. Of course,
we're going to keep talking about ally ships, so please
stick around for that, and then of course for our
way Black History fact, we'll be talking about Rosewood. But
first and foremost, let's discuss Baba, how to become a
better ally All right. For today's Baba Becoming a Better Ally,
(01:19):
I just know that it is sponsored by Major Threads.
For the finest in quality men's sportswear, checkmajorthreads dot com.
And for today's Baba, we are asking you let me
let me preface this, okay, Q and I are reevaluating
our relationship with social media, particularly after Elon Musk's takeover
(01:42):
of Twitter right, and we realize how important social media
is and how it gets information out, but also we
realize it can be very overwhelming, and we realize that
if you're caught in a strange algorithm, you might not
get information that might be helpful to you. So we're
gonna shout out a few names, a few accounts that
we believe are folks you can keep up with during
(02:05):
the week outside of ramses Jah and IMQ or. These
folks are like really dialed in, So allow me to
get a couple of these names off for those of
you who are on IG. We found a bit of
a cowboy, kind of an older white man. His name
is at Paul t X eight nine zero, and that
guy is of the truth. So once again, Paul t
(02:25):
X eight nine zero, he's got a bunch of followers.
He puts out great content and all still have to
keep you informing and engage on your journey of allyship.
Another one that we like is at Indigo Underscore Carolina,
and then we're going to shout out another one as well,
Garrison h. And then one Accu's favorites is at Joy
(02:48):
and Reed one of my absolute favorite r E I D.
And then for those of you who are on TikTok,
I would love for you to check out Lavert the
Bit the Baseman. Lavert the Baseman. He's an amazing person.
He does the credible thing about everything is racist and
it is. I hope we can be fascinate. Get him
on the show, and then also be sure to check
(03:10):
out Spitfire Speaking and Adam Conover. So yeah, a lot
of times it's really easy to get disheartened. You know,
I've seen that when we were out on the streets.
There was the groups of people that were so excited,
Hey I want to support, Hey I want to support,
and you know, people would get out of line. People
(03:33):
would want to be the voice and it's like, listen,
are you going to be an ally or did you
come here to be the leader? You know what I'm saying,
because these black women are capable of telling their own stories.
So you need to sit down and you need to listen.
If in fact, that's what you're here to do. If
you're here because you want to be the savior, then
(03:54):
this isn't the fight for you. We don't need a savior.
We can save ourselves. We need to articulate what it is.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
And it doesn't disqualify you from ever leading, right, because
there's going to be spaces where you need that absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
But you know a lot of times people would show
up and they would think, well, I'm here now, so
let me fix all of their problems, you know what
I mean. And the thing is they've been taught that
that's how you can approach everything. Well as with everything, bro,
there's nuance.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
There are some situations where you very ggulator come in
with your do that, yeah, because in this space we
need that. But as it recognized the spaces when that's
not the case.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And so here's what I was saying when I say
that those people that would show up where their whole
life is taught them you are the savior. You're the
person that can fix all these poor Africans problems with
stomachs sticking out and flies. You can spend thirty five
cents a day and fix it. You know. The people
that grew up with that that's their reality. They show
(04:53):
up well intentioned, they show up feeling like they want
to do what it is that they've been told that
they are capable of doing, and then they get shut
down because it's like, no, this isn't the space for
that type of you know energy. This is a space
where you can support us. We don't need for you
(05:17):
to tell us what to do. We need to tell
the world what it is that we need. It is
our time to speak, and we need you to listen
and support us. Right So for people that have the
right type of their intentions are good, that might knock
the wind out of their sales, you know, hearing like, oh,
(05:38):
that's not what we need right now. We just need
you to kind of fall back, listen, be a fly
on a well observed and then when we call on you,
we need you to be a foot soldier. Right yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I think lastly, just to this point, not that this
conversation is over, but just so we can get you know,
what we've written and now what we're thinking out loud,
you know, back to our fantastic team. There is cost
to allyship. There are going to be people that you
(06:09):
love that disagree with you. There are gonna be opportunities
that are no longer presented to you. There are gonna
be colleagues at work that no longer talk to you.
Block them versus The answer is to be liberal with
the block button. But I mean it's I've lived it right.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I work.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
I work still like you know, my brother here is
full time in the creative space. I still work full time,
day to day, every day, corporate American. I was all
over the national news behind that trademark. The temperature at
work is different.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Now.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
There is a cost to pay. There are people who
have not said a single word to me since CNN,
and that's me. When you don't look like me and
you're fighting on this side of it, it is going
to cost maybe your parents, maybe your children, maybe your boss,
maybe your favorite coworker.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Friends from high school. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
So I have learned that people I love and have
decades of friendship and relationships with are on the opposite
side of this, and some of those people look just
like us. So you can only imagine for people who fight.
This is not for those who are declaring themselves allies.
(07:35):
You are going to ruffle some feathers for people who
you've probably got years and years of love relationship, and
that these people are integral parts of your daily life.
You will lose some of them if you actually commit
to this fight. It is important to understand that going
in and not let that be the reason why you
give up.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So let me make that live if I may, and
then will put a bonus. But there's a woman that
I know, and then you know. Her name is Maya.
And I met Maya when she was seventeen years old.
(08:15):
And Maya has a father who is a doctor and
a mother who is a doctor. And Maya is probably
some sort of German white like white white, you know
what I'm saying. Met her father. Her father wanted to
meet me because of radio. And it's like, hey, my
(08:35):
daughter was interested in becoming a radio person in DJ
Could I introduce the two of you. I'm like, sure,
no problem, happy to help. Then his daughter drove to
my house. I didn't know how old she was. It
was a seventeen year old. I'm a grown girl, super
girl man at least double her age. At the time
when I met her, seventeen year old child came into
(09:01):
my home to meet me, and I'm like, ooh, and
she said, yeah, I'm getting ready to go to school.
I'm going to go to an Ivy League university and
I'm going to school because i want to be a
civil rights attorney. Sure, oh that's different, Okay, So what
(09:22):
do you need from me? Right? This is this is
my energy. Of course, everything that she's ever needed she's
gotten from me. She came to my little words that morning.
I did recently. But she firmly believes that the world
(09:44):
could be a better place for everybody, and the way
to go about doing that is by starting where there's
the most the greatest need. Right hence the civil rights attorney. Right,
if I can help black people, if I can help
marginalize people, if I can help Hispanic people, I can
help trans people or whatever. But she met me, that
(10:06):
was a very black and white conversation. But I know
that she has one of those hearts now in the
years since I've known her her father, remember, her father
was the one that introduced the two of us. Not
to put her business out there too much, but I
know that her relationship with her father has been tested,
(10:29):
and I know that other relationships of hers had been
tested because she comes from pretty conservative town, you know,
and she was kind of the person that saw the
world with a little bit more empathy, a little bit
more compassion, a little bit more understanding, a little bit
more hope and optimism, like this could be better. She
(10:53):
never never once needed to do anything for anybody else.
She could have just lived and thrived. Remember both parents
are doctors. She stepped out of her comfort zone. She
decided to walk a path that might not be fiscally
as rewarding, might be super rewarding spiritually. That's my belief
(11:15):
because she seems like one of the happiest people I've
ever met, constantly, every time I see her, every time
I talk on the phone. But she's also paid that
cost that you mentioned, and you know, I mentioned her
relationship with her dad, but there's other relationships too where
it's like, listen, here's what it is, here's what it's not.
And to be fair, she's challenged me too on some things,
(11:39):
you know, where I'm thinking I'm saying this and this
is a good thing. She's like, there's a better way
to say that. There's a better way to go about
doing that. And you know in Princeville, she knows what
I mean. But there are some things that you're absolutely right.
There's some things that allyship will cost that you may
not be aware of that you should be that. You
may not know who it is, you may not know
how it impacts your life, but if you really do
(12:02):
plan on walking this path, you know there's people that
pay with their lives. Remember the I forget his name,
he deserves to be mentioned, but he was in the
Olympics and he took he shared his gloves with the athletes,
I want to say, and he took the podium and
there was we need to figure this out immediately. But
(12:25):
you know the photograph I'm thinking.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
About, right, yeah, one Carlos and yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I'll look that up for you. Sure. But yeah, So
there's three athletes that are all on the podium and
the white man that was I believe it was second place.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
What he took, Tommy Smith and John Carlos.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Okay, so the white man that was there was standing
in solidarity with him, and I believe, if the story
is correct in my memory, he's the one that gave
them the gloves to wear, and he knew that that
wasn't his moment, but he stood firmly with the athletes,
the black athletes there, and they ridiculed that man. They
took everything from that man, and he died very very
(13:05):
much before his time as a result of that. So
my point is that allyship can cost more than just relationships.
It can cost everything up to and including even your life.
There's lots of our heroes that we celebrate and their
names will be forever with us.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
That gentleman's name was Peter Norman Peter, and he stood
in solidarity with them exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yes, yes, So that's all that's standing in solidarity with
people that's not seeking to get the attention. Notice his
hand wasn't in the air. That wasn't his moment, you know,
And obviously that's not what you want to see someone
get ridiculed and pay with their life. Ultimately, I believe that,
either directly or indirectly, that was the way his story went.
(13:51):
But we're talking about him now as an ally who
did write by us. If there is such a thing
as heaven and I get there and that man isn't there,
and I've gone to the wrong place, and you know,
what else is crazy. If I am here, I want
to point out something else. There's a lot of white
(14:13):
people throughout history who have been allies to black people,
and one of the things that is kind of unfortunate
is that a lot of them aren't known to us,
and as a result, they're not celebrated for doing the
right thing. And I'm sure that you know, many of
(14:34):
them aren't really looking to be celebrated. It's simply a
matter of following their internal moral compass and just simply
doing what's right. But when I hear stories like that,
I feel encouraged that other white people will feel like
doing the right thing is greater than the sum of
(14:56):
its parts. Right, there's a bigger impact. They can make
a change, voice matters, et cetera. And so that's why
often on this show, when it makes sense, we will
do a deep dive about someone who's not black, oftentimes
they're white, who has been a tremendous ally to black
people and all people from being honest and folks that
(15:18):
want to see the world just treat everyone a little
bit more fairly. And so, you know, I hope that
that story and stories like that aren't just stories, but
they actually serve as motivation because you got a bear
in mind. You know, he's on a stage second place
(15:41):
in the Olympics. The world is watching, and you know,
it's kind of make it or break it moment and
we as we know, it costs a lot. But he's
remembered for rather more than making second place. He's just
not widely remembered. I think he's more remembered than perhaps
anyone else from the Olympics that year who was not
(16:04):
a black activist. But still, you know, there's there's levels
to this.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
And even if he's not remembered, he's ever present because
of the photo, you know what I mean. So people
who never knew his name, people who never knew or
still don't know his story, you know, people that may
not be listening to us, they've seen that picture. Yeah,
and I'm sure some have questioned, yo, who who is
the guy that came in second? That story has has
(16:31):
had to be told. Now, I don't know, when we're
talking about allies white allies throughout history, there's a a
measure of self awareness that's necessary there because you have
to say to yourself in that moment, I'm advantage, I'm advantaged,
like I'm disadvantages is a much more naturally natural inclination,
(16:55):
if you will, I'm privileged and or advantaged, not so much.
It's hard to see that. Yeah, So people who are
self aware enough to see in a way that's not
paying themselves a compliment that I'm privileged. Yeah, because I'm
sure there were many people who are very very aware
of there, of the difference in stature and throughout you know,
(17:16):
the civilized world. Sure, but in a way that says
I'm unfairly privileged. You know, this is not something that
was earned. This is just the way it is. I
benefit from something. That's something that something's at play here
that I'm benefiting from, and it's not necessarily a good thing.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
There's there's something about this where, you know, a lot
of times people who are not black feel like black
people are kind of picking on them because they're white.
And I feel like, you know, this is obviously a
conversation for our would be allies and obviously people that
experience the world the same way that we do. But
(17:58):
there's something worth and it's that you know, a lot
of times these issues aren't with white people because they're white.
It's the issues are with human beings. Being human beings,
and they often happen to be white. I'll give you
an example to your point. Q. I recall a couple
(18:19):
of times in my life coming across a story about Monopoly,
the game Monopoly, Right, I've told that story on the show. Yeah, yeah, okay,
So for our listeners, for our listeners, I want to
make sure that you are brought up to speed. So basically,
there's a story, a study that was done, and I'm
(18:41):
sure you can find this on YouTube and check out
the results. It's fascinating. And again, this is not about
white people. This is not about capital, this isn't about
anything that we tend to pick on here at this show.
This is about human nature. So what happens is there
is a study and there's a game of Monopoly, and
one person gets to roll both dice and gets two
(19:07):
hundred dollars every time they pass go and they get
the full They don't get any advantages, so no privileges,
but they critically they don't have any disadvantages, right, and
then the other players in the game to varying levels.
If my memory serves me correct our disadvantage. Maybe they
can only roll one dice, maybe they can get only
(19:29):
one hundred dollars when they pass go, maybe every other
turn is skipped, whatever the case is. Right, So you
listening to this understands clearly that, well, the person who's
able to roll both dice and enjoy all of the
advantages afforded by the game is going to win, right.
(19:52):
But they weren't studying whether or not the person will win,
because I think there's no question there. They were studying
how they reacted to the advantage that they had. And
funnily enough, the more that the person with the and
I shouldn't say advantage, but the person who was able
to play the game fully, it was very difficult for
(20:14):
them to just to show behavior that suggested that they
were privileged. It's like they couldn't see it. It was like, oh,
well back to me, all right, I'm gonna buy that
from you. Okay, pay up. You know, there was no empathy.
It wasn't like, hey man, you're about to get bankrupt.
I realized that I'm playing the game here. I know
full well. They told me the rules in the beginning
(20:34):
that I this is deck. They told me that there's
a catch here, and it's the disadvantage is levied against you.
Not against me, but they still played the game aggressively,
and of course they won, and it was celebrated the
win exactly as though they somehow go ahead, you said,
(20:57):
as though somehow they had earned it. And so I
say that to say that a lot of times, it's
very difficult for people to see their own Again, privilege
is a word that triggers a lot of folks, but
the lack of disadvantages in their world. And again, this
is not a matter of it being a person who's white.
(21:19):
It's a matter of a human being behaving as a
human being would, and overwhelmingly in our story at least,
they happen to be white folks. And so we're not
mad at white people because they're white. We're not mad
at white people at all. We recognize their human beings.
But they need to be educated about their privilege. And
try as you might, a lot of people will push
(21:40):
back against it because in their opinion, well, look, I
wrote the disce same as everyone else. Look I bought it.
That was the price everybody, if you you could have
bought it, you know, And these are like realistic things,
and you can see how easily that translates into the
world that we all share, right, So allieship or would
be allyship in this instance is something that also lies
(22:05):
just beyond the self reflection necessary to see the world
for what it is. And of course, of course anybody
can fly around the world and say, listen, look at
those kids in Africa with the belly sticking out and
the flies in their eyes. Or look at those kids
living in the slums in India, or look at how
(22:25):
the North Koreans are being treated, or look at you know,
all these places around the world, very distant, far off lands,
but it's very difficult to see that. Oftentimes circumstances that
or the invisible forces behind let's say capitalism or political
(22:47):
agendas or whatever that privilege and benefit people who are
very much empathetic to all of these, you know, places
around the world where people are suffering, they often fail
to connect that suffering to the world that they live in.
I and I don't want to point fingers because I'm
Ramsey's job, and I have an iPhone. You know, I
(23:09):
have tons of shoes. I'm sure they're made in trying
to you know, this sort of thing. So we all
are learning how to be better allies to each other,
but often enough, the you know, the biggest uh and
the and the and the greatest overreach, I should say,
appears certainly from this vantage point to often enough be
(23:30):
from white individuals who have wealth, power, status, uh support
from all the systems, the political establishment, the criminal justice system,
the educational system, the medical fields, you know, the uh,
you know, you name it. That list goes on and.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I was going to say, that's going to turn into
an infinite list here.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So yeah, and again, this is not a matter of
complaining or anything like that. This is just a conversation,
the conress on what it means to be an ally
and why that's important, and you know, how you can
become a better ally, ways you can challenge yourself. And
(24:12):
I think that conversations like these are mission critical to
anybody who's listening to this show. I don't imagine you'd
be listening to the show for this long without thinking
that something like that is possible, Like a positive, favorable
outcome for all folks is possible. A more empathetic world,
a world where we understand each other, and I think critically,
(24:34):
a world where people recognize that when I pass go,
I get two hundred dollars and when you pass go.
There's varying levels of disadvantages that you might encounter at
that point or indeed as you play the game of life.
Forgive the switch in the metaphor, but I think it
works to me.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Just be great to have those things acknowledged.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
That's all, yeah, exactly, So, all right now it is
time for the way Black History effect. And today's way
Black History fact is about the Rosewood Massacre. I'm reading
this from history dot Com, and just know that this
is brought to you by the Black Information Network Daily Podcasts.
(25:15):
I know a lot of you may have seen the
movie Rosewood, but this is black history and we got
to talk about it too. And for those of you
haven't seen it, I'm sure this will be informative, to
say the least. So I'll read. The Rosewood Massacre was
an attack on the predominantly African American town of Rosewood, Florida,
in nineteen twenty three by large groups of white aggressors.
(25:37):
The town was entirely destroyed by the end of the violence,
and the residents were driven out permanently. The story was
mostly forgotten until the nineteen eighties, when it was revived
and brought to public attention. Though it was originally settled
in eighteen forty five by both black and white people,
Black codes and Jim Crow laws in the years after
the Civil War fostered segregation in Rosewood and much of
(25:57):
the South. Employment was provided by pencil factories, but the
Cedar Tree population soon became decimated, and white families moved
away in the eighteen nineties and settled in the nearby
town of Summoner. By the nineteen twenties, Rosewood's population of
about two hundred was entirely made up of black citizens,
except for one white family that ran the general store there.
(26:19):
On January first, nineteen twenty three, in Summer, Florida, or
Sorry in Sumner, Florida, twenty two year old Fanny Taylor
was heard screaming by a neighbor. The neighbor found Taylor
covered in bruises and claiming a black man had entered
the house and assaulted her. The incident was reported to
Sheriff Robert Elias Walker, with Taylor's specifying that she had
(26:40):
not been raped. Fanny Taylor's husband, James Taylor, a foreman
at the local mill, escalated the situation by gathering an
angry mob of white citizens to hunt down the culprit.
He also called for help from white residents in neighboring counties,
among them a group of about five hundred Ku Klux
Klan members who were in Gainesville for a rally. White
mobs prowed the area woods, searching for any black man
(27:04):
they might find. Law enforcement found out that a black
prisoner named Jesse Hunter had escaped a chain gang and
immediately designated him with suspect. The mobs focused their searches
on a Hunter, convinced that he was being hidden by
the black residents. Searchers were led by dogs to the
home of Aaron car Carrier in Rosewood. Carrier was a
nephew of Sarah Carrier, who did the laundry for Taylor.
(27:26):
The white men dragged Carrier out of his house, tied
him to a car, and dragged him to Sumner, where
he was cut loose and beaten. Sheriff Wagner intervened, putting
a Carrier in his car and driving him to Gainesville,
where he was placed under the protective custody of the sheriff. There,
another mob showed up at the home of blacksmith Sam Carter,
torturing him until he admitted that he was hiding Hunter
(27:48):
and agreed to take them to the hiding spot. Carter
led them to into the woods, but when Hunter failed
to appear, someone in the mob shot him. His body
was hung on a tree before the mob moved on,
meaning he didn't actually know. He just said that he
couldn't say anything else, all right. The Sheriff's office had
attempted and failed to break up white mobs and advised
(28:09):
black workers to stay in their places of employment for safety.
As many as twenty five people, mostly children, had taken
refuge in the home of Sarah Carrier when on the
night of January fourth, armed white men surrounded house in
the belief that Jesse Hunter was hiding there. Shots were
fired in the ensuing confrontation. Sarah Carrier was shot in
the head and died, and her son, Sylvester was also
(28:30):
killed by a gunwound. Two white attackers were also killed.
The gun battle and standoff lasted overnight. It ended when
the door was broken down by white attackers. The children
inside the house escaped through the back and made their
way to safety through the woods, where they hid. News
of the stand off at the Carrier house spread with
newspapers inflating the number dead and falsely reporting bands of
armed black citizens going on a rampage. Even more white
(28:53):
men poured into the area, believing that a race war
had broken out. Huh. Some of the first targets of
this influx where the children in Rosewood, which were burned
sorry the churches in Rosewood, which were burned down. Houses
were then attacked, first setting fire to them and then
shooting people as they escape from burning doings. Lexi Gordon
was one of those murdered, taking a gunshot to her
(29:15):
face as she hid under her burning house. Gordon had
sent her children fleeing when white attackers approached, but suffering
from typhoid fever, she stayed behind. Many Rosewood citizens fled
to the nearby swamps for safety, spending days hiding in them.
Some attempted to leave the swamps were turned back by
men working for the sheriff. James Carrier, brother of Sylvester
(29:38):
and son of Sarah did manage to get out of
the swamp and take refuge with the help of a
local turpentine factory manager. A white mob found him anyhow,
and forced him to dig a gray for himself before
murdering him. Others found help from white families willing to
shelter them. Some black women and children escaped thanks to
John and William Brice, to wealthy brothers who owned a
(29:58):
train where the violence and ROAs and familiar with the population,
the brothers drove their train to the area and invited escapees,
though refused to take the black men in, afraid of
being attacked by white moms. Many of those who fled
by train had been hidden in the home of the
white general store owner, John Wright, and continued to do
(30:18):
so throughout the violence. Sheriff Walker helped the terrified residents
make their way to Wright, who then arranged escape with
the help of the Brice brothers.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
All Right.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Florida Governor Carry Hardy offered to send the National Guard
to help, but Sheriff Walker declined the help, believing that
he had the situation under control. Mobs began to disperse
after several days, but on January seventh, many returned to
finish off the town, burning what little remained of it
to the ground except for the home of John Wright.
Special grand Jury and Special Prosecutor were appointed by the
(30:49):
governor to investigate the violence. The jury heard the testimonies
of nearly thirty witnesses, mostly white, over several days, but
claimed not to find enough evidence for prosecution. The surviving
citizens of Rosewood did not return philforda fearful that the
horrific bloodshed would recur. The story of Rosewood faded away quickly.
Most newspapers stopped reporting on it soon after the violence
(31:10):
had ceased, and many survivors kept quiet about their experience,
even to subsequent family members. It was in nineteen eighty
two when Gary Moore, a journalist for the Saint Petersburg Times,
resurrected the history of Rosewood through a series of articles
that gained national attention. The living survivors of the massacre
at that point, all in their eighties and nineties, came forward,
led by Rosewood descended Arnett Doctor and demanded restitution from Florida.
(31:34):
The action led to the bill passing sorry. The action
led to the passing of a bill awarding them two
million dollars and created an educational fund for descendants. The
bill also called from an investigation into the matter to
clarify the events, which Moore took part in. Further awareness
was created through John Singleton's nineteen ninety seven film Rosewood,
which dramatized the events and scene.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
So the most shocking thing when we do way black
history facts and even when we draw stories from our
past to tie them into things that are happening today,
is how normal things like earning houses fell of black people,
and hanging black people and at the stake and shooting
(32:22):
him in the face and dragging them behind your car.
It wasn't just normal, it was celebrated. Would they would
have parties just for these events and bring their children
and you know what I mean, Like, it's just a
lot of these people thought or consider themselves decent human
beings and would and would have been insulted had you
(32:44):
called them anything different.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I think that goes back to the point of its
being very difficult to see privilege. They're just entitled to
black bodies and can do with us what they wanted,
And so I'm glad they were having these conversations today.
So with that said, I think we're gonna wrap it
up here and then of course follow us on on
social media at raams joh I am q Ward and
(33:06):
of course you can follow us at Civic Cipher and
we'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
All right, perect y'all like Yo, we had the label.
These brothers are fabulous, our ladies showing you where Ron
traveled this world spik too, from sunlight to move, busting
on stage like gonna fight supposed roll my mic back.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
You're like that.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Journalists with journalists too, we can strike back horb borders
with orders from head, borders behind and the bline side
setup and the borders with press passing.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
We bring it to you as it.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Happens, the streets, love popped on from music and rapping,
the street compland the slash week expander. You're gonna fight
the slander with the proper propaganda.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
What's happening?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
It's hot. You gotta question to ask if Deduce is
just a TV show you're passing And this from a
quiet wartime journalists headlines, wake up, pregis and resist like
this like this, like this, like it it I so
And now watching my mic back, you're like that.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You can strike.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Waters from head borders behind in the line. All right,
and uh, if you're just tuning in the civic cipher,
i'my host Rams'.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Job, he is joh, I am q ward. You guys
go back with us once again, or one more again,
as my brother would say, that checking out another another.
We call our show an episode. You call it a
it's a good question, rendition, another installment, you know what
I'm saying, one of those, any of them.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
I feel like all of it. I feel like it.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Feels like TV slash movie slash radio slash like. I
feel like we're in every media span. I think it's
the way let me shameless plug. Rams has built such
an incredible studio for us. It feels like we're on television,
in a movie, doing a podcast for the radio.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Well, I love that, and uh, in this studio, there's
a lot for you to stick around for. Of course,
we're going to keep talking about ally ships, so please
stick around for that, and then of course for our
way Black History fact, we'll be talking about Rosewood. But
first and foremost, let's discuss Baba, how to become a
better ally All right. For today's Baba Becoming a Better Ally,
(01:19):
I just know that it is sponsored by Major Threads.
For the finest in quality men's sportswear, checkmajorthreads dot com.
And for today's Baba, we are asking you let me
let me preface this, okay, Q and I are reevaluating
our relationship with social media, particularly after Elon Musk's takeover
(01:42):
of Twitter right, and we realize how important social media
is and how it gets information out, but also we
realize it can be very overwhelming, and we realize that
if you're caught in a strange algorithm, you might not
get information that might be helpful to you. So we're
gonna shout out a few names, a few accounts that
we believe are folks you can keep up with during
(02:05):
the week outside of ramses Jah and IMQ or. These
folks are like really dialed in, So allow me to
get a couple of these names off for those of
you who are on IG. We found a bit of
a cowboy, kind of an older white man. His name
is at Paul t X eight nine zero, and that
guy is of the truth. So once again, Paul t
(02:25):
X eight nine zero, he's got a bunch of followers.
He puts out great content and all still have to
keep you informing and engage on your journey of allyship.
Another one that we like is at Indigo Underscore Carolina,
and then we're going to shout out another one as well,
Garrison h. And then one Accu's favorites is at Joy
(02:48):
and Reed one of my absolute favorite r E I D.
And then for those of you who are on TikTok,
I would love for you to check out Lavert the
Bit the Baseman. Lavert the Baseman. He's an amazing person.
He does the credible thing about everything is racist and
it is. I hope we can be fascinate. Get him
on the show, and then also be sure to check
(03:10):
out Spitfire Speaking and Adam Conover. So yeah, a lot
of times it's really easy to get disheartened. You know,
I've seen that when we were out on the streets.
There was the groups of people that were so excited,
Hey I want to support, Hey I want to support,
and you know, people would get out of line. People
(03:33):
would want to be the voice and it's like, listen,
are you going to be an ally or did you
come here to be the leader? You know what I'm saying,
because these black women are capable of telling their own stories.
So you need to sit down and you need to listen.
If in fact, that's what you're here to do. If
you're here because you want to be the savior, then
(03:54):
this isn't the fight for you. We don't need a savior.
We can save ourselves. We need to articulate what it is.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
And it doesn't disqualify you from ever leading, right, because
there's going to be spaces where you need that absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
But you know a lot of times people would show
up and they would think, well, I'm here now, so
let me fix all of their problems, you know what
I mean. And the thing is they've been taught that
that's how you can approach everything. Well as with everything, bro,
there's nuance.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
There are some situations where you very ggulator come in
with your do that, yeah, because in this space we
need that. But as it recognized the spaces when that's
not the case.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
And so here's what I was saying when I say
that those people that would show up where their whole
life is taught them you are the savior. You're the
person that can fix all these poor Africans problems with
stomachs sticking out and flies. You can spend thirty five
cents a day and fix it. You know. The people
that grew up with that that's their reality. They show
(04:53):
up well intentioned, they show up feeling like they want
to do what it is that they've been told that
they are capable of doing, and then they get shut
down because it's like, no, this isn't the space for
that type of you know energy. This is a space
where you can support us. We don't need for you
(05:17):
to tell us what to do. We need to tell
the world what it is that we need. It is
our time to speak, and we need you to listen
and support us. Right So for people that have the
right type of their intentions are good, that might knock
the wind out of their sales, you know, hearing like, oh,
(05:38):
that's not what we need right now. We just need
you to kind of fall back, listen, be a fly
on a well observed and then when we call on you,
we need you to be a foot soldier. Right yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I think lastly, just to this point, not that this
conversation is over, but just so we can get you know,
what we've written and now what we're thinking out loud,
you know, back to our fantastic team. There is cost
to allyship. There are going to be people that you
(06:09):
love that disagree with you. There are gonna be opportunities
that are no longer presented to you. There are gonna
be colleagues at work that no longer talk to you.
Block them versus The answer is to be liberal with
the block button. But I mean it's I've lived it right.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
I work.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
I work still like you know, my brother here is
full time in the creative space. I still work full time,
day to day, every day, corporate American. I was all
over the national news behind that trademark. The temperature at
work is different.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Now.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
There is a cost to pay. There are people who
have not said a single word to me since CNN,
and that's me. When you don't look like me and
you're fighting on this side of it, it is going
to cost maybe your parents, maybe your children, maybe your boss,
maybe your favorite coworker.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
Friends from high school. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
So I have learned that people I love and have
decades of friendship and relationships with are on the opposite
side of this, and some of those people look just
like us. So you can only imagine for people who fight.
This is not for those who are declaring themselves allies.
(07:35):
You are going to ruffle some feathers for people who
you've probably got years and years of love relationship, and
that these people are integral parts of your daily life.
You will lose some of them if you actually commit
to this fight. It is important to understand that going
in and not let that be the reason why you
give up.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
So let me make that live if I may, and
then will put a bonus. But there's a woman that
I know, and then you know. Her name is Maya.
And I met Maya when she was seventeen years old.
(08:15):
And Maya has a father who is a doctor and
a mother who is a doctor. And Maya is probably
some sort of German white like white white, you know
what I'm saying. Met her father. Her father wanted to
meet me because of radio. And it's like, hey, my
(08:35):
daughter was interested in becoming a radio person in DJ
Could I introduce the two of you. I'm like, sure,
no problem, happy to help. Then his daughter drove to
my house. I didn't know how old she was. It
was a seventeen year old. I'm a grown girl, super
girl man at least double her age. At the time
when I met her, seventeen year old child came into
(09:01):
my home to meet me, and I'm like, ooh, and
she said, yeah, I'm getting ready to go to school.
I'm going to go to an Ivy League university and
I'm going to school because i want to be a
civil rights attorney. Sure, oh that's different, Okay, So what
(09:22):
do you need from me? Right? This is this is
my energy. Of course, everything that she's ever needed she's
gotten from me. She came to my little words that morning.
I did recently. But she firmly believes that the world
(09:44):
could be a better place for everybody, and the way
to go about doing that is by starting where there's
the most the greatest need. Right hence the civil rights attorney. Right,
if I can help black people, if I can help
marginalize people, if I can help Hispanic people, I can
help trans people or whatever. But she met me, that
(10:06):
was a very black and white conversation. But I know
that she has one of those hearts now in the
years since I've known her her father, remember, her father
was the one that introduced the two of us. Not
to put her business out there too much, but I
know that her relationship with her father has been tested,
(10:29):
and I know that other relationships of hers had been
tested because she comes from pretty conservative town, you know,
and she was kind of the person that saw the
world with a little bit more empathy, a little bit
more compassion, a little bit more understanding, a little bit
more hope and optimism, like this could be better. She
(10:53):
never never once needed to do anything for anybody else.
She could have just lived and thrived. Remember both parents
are doctors. She stepped out of her comfort zone. She
decided to walk a path that might not be fiscally
as rewarding, might be super rewarding spiritually. That's my belief
(11:15):
because she seems like one of the happiest people I've
ever met, constantly, every time I see her, every time
I talk on the phone. But she's also paid that
cost that you mentioned, and you know, I mentioned her
relationship with her dad, but there's other relationships too where
it's like, listen, here's what it is, here's what it's not.
And to be fair, she's challenged me too on some things,
(11:39):
you know, where I'm thinking I'm saying this and this
is a good thing. She's like, there's a better way
to say that. There's a better way to go about
doing that. And you know in Princeville, she knows what
I mean. But there are some things that you're absolutely right.
There's some things that allyship will cost that you may
not be aware of that you should be that. You
may not know who it is, you may not know
how it impacts your life, but if you really do
(12:02):
plan on walking this path, you know there's people that
pay with their lives. Remember the I forget his name,
he deserves to be mentioned, but he was in the
Olympics and he took he shared his gloves with the athletes,
I want to say, and he took the podium and
there was we need to figure this out immediately. But
(12:25):
you know the photograph I'm thinking.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
About, right, yeah, one Carlos and yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I'll look that up for you. Sure. But yeah, So
there's three athletes that are all on the podium and
the white man that was I believe it was second place.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
What he took, Tommy Smith and John Carlos.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Okay, so the white man that was there was standing
in solidarity with him, and I believe, if the story
is correct in my memory, he's the one that gave
them the gloves to wear, and he knew that that
wasn't his moment, but he stood firmly with the athletes,
the black athletes there, and they ridiculed that man. They
took everything from that man, and he died very very
(13:05):
much before his time as a result of that. So
my point is that allyship can cost more than just relationships.
It can cost everything up to and including even your life.
There's lots of our heroes that we celebrate and their
names will be forever with us.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
That gentleman's name was Peter Norman Peter, and he stood
in solidarity with them exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yes, yes, So that's all that's standing in solidarity with
people that's not seeking to get the attention. Notice his
hand wasn't in the air. That wasn't his moment, you know,
And obviously that's not what you want to see someone
get ridiculed and pay with their life. Ultimately, I believe that,
either directly or indirectly, that was the way his story went.
(13:51):
But we're talking about him now as an ally who
did write by us. If there is such a thing
as heaven and I get there and that man isn't there,
and I've gone to the wrong place, and you know,
what else is crazy. If I am here, I want
to point out something else. There's a lot of white
(14:13):
people throughout history who have been allies to black people,
and one of the things that is kind of unfortunate
is that a lot of them aren't known to us,
and as a result, they're not celebrated for doing the
right thing. And I'm sure that you know, many of
(14:34):
them aren't really looking to be celebrated. It's simply a
matter of following their internal moral compass and just simply
doing what's right. But when I hear stories like that,
I feel encouraged that other white people will feel like
doing the right thing is greater than the sum of
(14:56):
its parts. Right, there's a bigger impact. They can make
a change, voice matters, et cetera. And so that's why
often on this show, when it makes sense, we will
do a deep dive about someone who's not black, oftentimes
they're white, who has been a tremendous ally to black
people and all people from being honest and folks that
(15:18):
want to see the world just treat everyone a little
bit more fairly. And so, you know, I hope that
that story and stories like that aren't just stories, but
they actually serve as motivation because you got a bear
in mind. You know, he's on a stage second place
(15:41):
in the Olympics. The world is watching, and you know,
it's kind of make it or break it moment and
we as we know, it costs a lot. But he's
remembered for rather more than making second place. He's just
not widely remembered. I think he's more remembered than perhaps
anyone else from the Olympics that year who was not
(16:04):
a black activist. But still, you know, there's there's levels
to this.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
And even if he's not remembered, he's ever present because
of the photo, you know what I mean. So people
who never knew his name, people who never knew or
still don't know his story, you know, people that may
not be listening to us, they've seen that picture. Yeah,
and I'm sure some have questioned, yo, who who is
the guy that came in second? That story has has
(16:31):
had to be told. Now, I don't know, when we're
talking about allies white allies throughout history, there's a a
measure of self awareness that's necessary there because you have
to say to yourself in that moment, I'm advantage, I'm advantaged,
like I'm disadvantages is a much more naturally natural inclination,
(16:55):
if you will, I'm privileged and or advantaged, not so much.
It's hard to see that. Yeah, So people who are
self aware enough to see in a way that's not
paying themselves a compliment that I'm privileged. Yeah, because I'm
sure there were many people who are very very aware
of there, of the difference in stature and throughout you know,
(17:16):
the civilized world. Sure, but in a way that says
I'm unfairly privileged. You know, this is not something that
was earned. This is just the way it is. I
benefit from something. That's something that something's at play here
that I'm benefiting from, and it's not necessarily a good thing.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
There's there's something about this where, you know, a lot
of times people who are not black feel like black
people are kind of picking on them because they're white.
And I feel like, you know, this is obviously a
conversation for our would be allies and obviously people that
experience the world the same way that we do. But
(17:58):
there's something worth and it's that you know, a lot
of times these issues aren't with white people because they're white.
It's the issues are with human beings. Being human beings,
and they often happen to be white. I'll give you
an example to your point. Q. I recall a couple
(18:19):
of times in my life coming across a story about Monopoly,
the game Monopoly, Right, I've told that story on the show. Yeah, yeah, okay,
So for our listeners, for our listeners, I want to
make sure that you are brought up to speed. So basically,
there's a story, a study that was done, and I'm
(18:41):
sure you can find this on YouTube and check out
the results. It's fascinating. And again, this is not about
white people. This is not about capital, this isn't about
anything that we tend to pick on here at this show.
This is about human nature. So what happens is there
is a study and there's a game of Monopoly, and
one person gets to roll both dice and gets two
(19:07):
hundred dollars every time they pass go and they get
the full They don't get any advantages, so no privileges,
but they critically they don't have any disadvantages, right, and
then the other players in the game to varying levels.
If my memory serves me correct our disadvantage. Maybe they
can only roll one dice, maybe they can get only
(19:29):
one hundred dollars when they pass go, maybe every other
turn is skipped, whatever the case is. Right, So you
listening to this understands clearly that, well, the person who's
able to roll both dice and enjoy all of the
advantages afforded by the game is going to win, right.
(19:52):
But they weren't studying whether or not the person will win,
because I think there's no question there. They were studying
how they reacted to the advantage that they had. And
funnily enough, the more that the person with the and
I shouldn't say advantage, but the person who was able
to play the game fully, it was very difficult for
(20:14):
them to just to show behavior that suggested that they
were privileged. It's like they couldn't see it. It was like, oh,
well back to me, all right, I'm gonna buy that
from you. Okay, pay up. You know, there was no empathy.
It wasn't like, hey man, you're about to get bankrupt.
I realized that I'm playing the game here. I know
full well. They told me the rules in the beginning
(20:34):
that I this is deck. They told me that there's
a catch here, and it's the disadvantage is levied against you.
Not against me, but they still played the game aggressively,
and of course they won, and it was celebrated the
win exactly as though they somehow go ahead, you said,
(20:57):
as though somehow they had earned it. And so I
say that to say that a lot of times, it's
very difficult for people to see their own Again, privilege
is a word that triggers a lot of folks, but
the lack of disadvantages in their world. And again, this
is not a matter of it being a person who's white.
(21:19):
It's a matter of a human being behaving as a
human being would, and overwhelmingly in our story at least,
they happen to be white folks. And so we're not
mad at white people because they're white. We're not mad
at white people at all. We recognize their human beings.
But they need to be educated about their privilege. And
try as you might, a lot of people will push
(21:40):
back against it because in their opinion, well, look, I
wrote the disce same as everyone else. Look I bought it.
That was the price everybody, if you you could have
bought it, you know, And these are like realistic things,
and you can see how easily that translates into the
world that we all share, right, So allieship or would
be allyship in this instance is something that also lies
(22:05):
just beyond the self reflection necessary to see the world
for what it is. And of course, of course anybody
can fly around the world and say, listen, look at
those kids in Africa with the belly sticking out and
the flies in their eyes. Or look at those kids
living in the slums in India, or look at how
(22:25):
the North Koreans are being treated, or look at you know,
all these places around the world, very distant, far off lands,
but it's very difficult to see that. Oftentimes circumstances that
or the invisible forces behind let's say capitalism or political
(22:47):
agendas or whatever that privilege and benefit people who are
very much empathetic to all of these, you know, places
around the world where people are suffering, they often fail
to connect that suffering to the world that they live in.
I and I don't want to point fingers because I'm
Ramsey's job, and I have an iPhone. You know, I
(23:09):
have tons of shoes. I'm sure they're made in trying
to you know, this sort of thing. So we all
are learning how to be better allies to each other,
but often enough, the you know, the biggest uh and
the and the and the greatest overreach, I should say,
appears certainly from this vantage point to often enough be
(23:30):
from white individuals who have wealth, power, status, uh support
from all the systems, the political establishment, the criminal justice system,
the educational system, the medical fields, you know, the uh,
you know, you name it. That list goes on and.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
I was going to say, that's going to turn into
an infinite list here.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
So yeah, and again, this is not a matter of
complaining or anything like that. This is just a conversation,
the conress on what it means to be an ally
and why that's important, and you know, how you can
become a better ally, ways you can challenge yourself. And
(24:12):
I think that conversations like these are mission critical to
anybody who's listening to this show. I don't imagine you'd
be listening to the show for this long without thinking
that something like that is possible, Like a positive, favorable
outcome for all folks is possible. A more empathetic world,
a world where we understand each other, and I think critically,
(24:34):
a world where people recognize that when I pass go,
I get two hundred dollars and when you pass go.
There's varying levels of disadvantages that you might encounter at
that point or indeed as you play the game of life.
Forgive the switch in the metaphor, but I think it
works to me.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
Just be great to have those things acknowledged.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
That's all, yeah, exactly, So, all right now it is
time for the way Black History effect. And today's way
Black History fact is about the Rosewood Massacre. I'm reading
this from history dot Com, and just know that this
is brought to you by the Black Information Network Daily Podcasts.
(25:15):
I know a lot of you may have seen the
movie Rosewood, but this is black history and we got
to talk about it too. And for those of you
haven't seen it, I'm sure this will be informative, to
say the least. So I'll read. The Rosewood Massacre was
an attack on the predominantly African American town of Rosewood, Florida,
in nineteen twenty three by large groups of white aggressors.
(25:37):
The town was entirely destroyed by the end of the violence,
and the residents were driven out permanently. The story was
mostly forgotten until the nineteen eighties, when it was revived
and brought to public attention. Though it was originally settled
in eighteen forty five by both black and white people,
Black codes and Jim Crow laws in the years after
the Civil War fostered segregation in Rosewood and much of
(25:57):
the South. Employment was provided by pencil factories, but the
Cedar Tree population soon became decimated, and white families moved
away in the eighteen nineties and settled in the nearby
town of Summoner. By the nineteen twenties, Rosewood's population of
about two hundred was entirely made up of black citizens,
except for one white family that ran the general store there.
(26:19):
On January first, nineteen twenty three, in Summer, Florida, or
Sorry in Sumner, Florida, twenty two year old Fanny Taylor
was heard screaming by a neighbor. The neighbor found Taylor
covered in bruises and claiming a black man had entered
the house and assaulted her. The incident was reported to
Sheriff Robert Elias Walker, with Taylor's specifying that she had
(26:40):
not been raped. Fanny Taylor's husband, James Taylor, a foreman
at the local mill, escalated the situation by gathering an
angry mob of white citizens to hunt down the culprit.
He also called for help from white residents in neighboring counties,
among them a group of about five hundred Ku Klux
Klan members who were in Gainesville for a rally. White
mobs prowed the area woods, searching for any black man
(27:04):
they might find. Law enforcement found out that a black
prisoner named Jesse Hunter had escaped a chain gang and
immediately designated him with suspect. The mobs focused their searches
on a Hunter, convinced that he was being hidden by
the black residents. Searchers were led by dogs to the
home of Aaron car Carrier in Rosewood. Carrier was a
nephew of Sarah Carrier, who did the laundry for Taylor.
(27:26):
The white men dragged Carrier out of his house, tied
him to a car, and dragged him to Sumner, where
he was cut loose and beaten. Sheriff Wagner intervened, putting
a Carrier in his car and driving him to Gainesville,
where he was placed under the protective custody of the sheriff. There,
another mob showed up at the home of blacksmith Sam Carter,
torturing him until he admitted that he was hiding Hunter
(27:48):
and agreed to take them to the hiding spot. Carter
led them to into the woods, but when Hunter failed
to appear, someone in the mob shot him. His body
was hung on a tree before the mob moved on,
meaning he didn't actually know. He just said that he
couldn't say anything else, all right. The Sheriff's office had
attempted and failed to break up white mobs and advised
(28:09):
black workers to stay in their places of employment for safety.
As many as twenty five people, mostly children, had taken
refuge in the home of Sarah Carrier when on the
night of January fourth, armed white men surrounded house in
the belief that Jesse Hunter was hiding there. Shots were
fired in the ensuing confrontation. Sarah Carrier was shot in
the head and died, and her son, Sylvester was also
(28:30):
killed by a gunwound. Two white attackers were also killed.
The gun battle and standoff lasted overnight. It ended when
the door was broken down by white attackers. The children
inside the house escaped through the back and made their
way to safety through the woods, where they hid. News
of the stand off at the Carrier house spread with
newspapers inflating the number dead and falsely reporting bands of
armed black citizens going on a rampage. Even more white
(28:53):
men poured into the area, believing that a race war
had broken out. Huh. Some of the first targets of
this influx where the children in Rosewood, which were burned
sorry the churches in Rosewood, which were burned down. Houses
were then attacked, first setting fire to them and then
shooting people as they escape from burning doings. Lexi Gordon
was one of those murdered, taking a gunshot to her
(29:15):
face as she hid under her burning house. Gordon had
sent her children fleeing when white attackers approached, but suffering
from typhoid fever, she stayed behind. Many Rosewood citizens fled
to the nearby swamps for safety, spending days hiding in them.
Some attempted to leave the swamps were turned back by
men working for the sheriff. James Carrier, brother of Sylvester
(29:38):
and son of Sarah did manage to get out of
the swamp and take refuge with the help of a
local turpentine factory manager. A white mob found him anyhow,
and forced him to dig a gray for himself before
murdering him. Others found help from white families willing to
shelter them. Some black women and children escaped thanks to
John and William Brice, to wealthy brothers who owned a
(29:58):
train where the violence and ROAs and familiar with the population,
the brothers drove their train to the area and invited escapees,
though refused to take the black men in, afraid of
being attacked by white moms. Many of those who fled
by train had been hidden in the home of the
white general store owner, John Wright, and continued to do
(30:18):
so throughout the violence. Sheriff Walker helped the terrified residents
make their way to Wright, who then arranged escape with
the help of the Brice brothers.
Speaker 3 (30:27):
All Right.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Florida Governor Carry Hardy offered to send the National Guard
to help, but Sheriff Walker declined the help, believing that
he had the situation under control. Mobs began to disperse
after several days, but on January seventh, many returned to
finish off the town, burning what little remained of it
to the ground except for the home of John Wright.
Special grand Jury and Special Prosecutor were appointed by the
(30:49):
governor to investigate the violence. The jury heard the testimonies
of nearly thirty witnesses, mostly white, over several days, but
claimed not to find enough evidence for prosecution. The surviving
citizens of Rosewood did not return philforda fearful that the
horrific bloodshed would recur. The story of Rosewood faded away quickly.
Most newspapers stopped reporting on it soon after the violence
(31:10):
had ceased, and many survivors kept quiet about their experience,
even to subsequent family members. It was in nineteen eighty
two when Gary Moore, a journalist for the Saint Petersburg Times,
resurrected the history of Rosewood through a series of articles
that gained national attention. The living survivors of the massacre
at that point, all in their eighties and nineties, came forward,
led by Rosewood descended Arnett Doctor and demanded restitution from Florida.
(31:34):
The action led to the bill passing sorry. The action
led to the passing of a bill awarding them two
million dollars and created an educational fund for descendants. The
bill also called from an investigation into the matter to
clarify the events, which Moore took part in. Further awareness
was created through John Singleton's nineteen ninety seven film Rosewood,
which dramatized the events and scene.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
So the most shocking thing when we do way black
history facts and even when we draw stories from our
past to tie them into things that are happening today,
is how normal things like earning houses fell of black people,
and hanging black people and at the stake and shooting
(32:22):
him in the face and dragging them behind your car.
It wasn't just normal, it was celebrated. Would they would
have parties just for these events and bring their children
and you know what I mean, Like, it's just a
lot of these people thought or consider themselves decent human
beings and would and would have been insulted had you
(32:44):
called them anything different.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I think that goes back to the point of its
being very difficult to see privilege. They're just entitled to
black bodies and can do with us what they wanted,
And so I'm glad they were having these conversations today.
So with that said, I think we're gonna wrap it
up here and then of course follow us on on
social media at raams joh I am q Ward and
(33:06):
of course you can follow us at Civic Cipher and
we'll talk to you next week.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
All right, perect y'all like Yo, we had the label.
These brothers are fabulous, our ladies showing you where Ron
traveled this world spik too, from sunlight to move, busting
on stage like gonna fight supposed roll my mic back.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
You're like that.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Journalists with journalists too, we can strike back horb borders
with orders from head, borders behind and the bline side
setup and the borders with press passing.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
We bring it to you as it.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Happens, the streets, love popped on from music and rapping,
the street compland the slash week expander. You're gonna fight
the slander with the proper propaganda.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
What's happening?
Speaker 2 (33:46):
It's hot. You gotta question to ask if Deduce is
just a TV show you're passing And this from a
quiet wartime journalists headlines, wake up, pregis and resist like
this like this, like this, like it it I so
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