March 25, 2023 • 24 mins
In the first half of the show, we take back the term “woke” by defining it properly for everyone and by examining the attacks against the term and the people associated with it. We shout out Gayle King for our Ebony Excellence segment.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. Army host Ramsy's
job is Rams This job, I am q ward.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You are tuned into Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm more gain a lot to stick around for it
today because there's a lot going on in the world today.
And let me be the first to tell you we
need to help each other out. Let's let's put it
like that, all right, So first up on the show,
we are going to be talking about wokeness. As you
may know, being woke is somehow under attack or it's
(00:35):
like a bad word as a blade. And you know, I.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Always say they always find a way.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Isn't that crazy? But I always say, like, you know,
it's wild because would you rather be sleep? You know,
like it's just, you know, just the language in and
of itself is harmless. But you know, we're gonna we're
gonna peel back some layers there and redefine that for
everybody so that you don't no longer have to be
afraid of being woke. You understand a little bit of
(01:01):
history there, and you recognize the tactics that are being
used as always to try to minimize or diminish efforts
on the part of a progressive facet of this country,
trying to move us more toward what we consider to
be a racial utopia. We're also going to be talking
(01:21):
about Bill nine in Florida, so that means more Ron
DeSantis aka Donald Trump two point zero again, a lot
of nonsense, a lot of fear mongering, and a whole
lot of misinformation. And as we know, people are susceptible
(01:42):
to misinformation, so we're going to be talking about that
as well, informing you best we can with respect to that.
And we're going to dedicate our way Black History fact
to the late King Khalif Browder because he's deserving of
it and you definitely need to know about that. But
first and foremost, let's discuss some ebony excellence. Q. How
(02:02):
do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Shall we shall so?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Ebny excellence? This week is brought to you by Hip
Hop Weekly Media and I'm reading from Fenura. I believe
that's how it's pronounced. We're gonna celebrate the one and
only Gail King. So without further ado, broadcast journalist Gail King,
who was the co host of CBS Mornings, recently accepted
(02:25):
the thirty ninth Walter Cronkite Award for Excellence in Journalism,
presented by Arizona State Universities Walter Cronkite School of Journalism
and Mass Communication. Full disclosure, Q and I are both
in Arizona and we have a distant relationship with that school,
so we were very proud that they took the time
to honor a Gail King, a black woman.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Forgetta Gibson too, who indeed, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
She was Yeah, shout out Yetta. But anytime we get
a chance to celebrate someone, especially in the space that
we're in, we realize how difficult it is to work
in journalism and media, so we wanted to take a moment.
I'll keep reading. There's a quote. We are very excited
to honor Gail with the thirty ninth Walter Conkite Award
and celebrate her tremendous career, Cronkite School Dean Batino L.
(03:14):
Bats Junior said at the event. It goes on to
say she has had a profound impact on a journalism
industry and the communities across the nation that benefit from
her excellence in reporting and storytelling. King is often recognized
for her longtime friendship with media mogul Oprah Winfrey. The
two women met when they were working at a local
television station in Baltimore. King has worked as a reporter
(03:35):
in Washington, d C. And Kansas City, Missouri, before becoming
a news anchor in Hartford, Connecticut. In addition to serving
as co host for CBS Mornings, King if also editor
at large for Oprah Daily and hosts a live weekly
radio show on Sirius XM. Gail King in the House.
King's net worth, I don't know why that's here, is
(03:56):
valued at forty million dollars according to Celebrity Networth. So
there you go, all right, Now, moving on what's wrong
with being woke?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Now?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
I saw a video. I think we both saw this
video this week. It was of a woman, you know,
in some sort of on some sort of show. The
host was black, a black woman, and the woman was
the guest was a white woman. And the guest says
something like, well, you know, the radical left because of
(04:39):
their woke black practices and blah blah blah blah work,
they're woke agenda something like this she said. And then
the host says, well, what does woke mean to you?
To find woke for me? And then the guest, the
white woman, she started to kind of fumble over her words,
and she's like, well, oh god, this is going to
be one of those moments that goes viral, and sure
(05:00):
enough it did, because of course we saw it. But
again she proceeded to fumble, you know, through her idea
of what wokeness is, which I think illustrates she's not
the only person to fall victim of that. Many people,
when they're asked to define what wokeness is are either
(05:23):
forced to explain that wokeness is kind of a person
who is enlightened with respect to how folks are mistreated.
This is a loose definition. We'll actually get to the
real definition. And oftentimes that person wants to pursue a
reality where people are treated more fairly. And so when
(05:48):
people attack wokeness, people who attack wokeness are forced to
identify it. Then they're forced to kind of come face
to face with the idea that they're on the wrong
side of history. To be frank, and so not to
pick on any one person, because we recognize that everyone
is susceptible to and that is.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
However, not not unique to woke or wokeness.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Oh yeah, like words like socialism, words like critical race theory,
words that the other side, if you will, uses in
poor context to stoke the fear or hate or you know,
whatever their agenda is with their audience, and then their
audience just adopts it.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
They don't do any research, they don't they don't even
seek to understand beyond that, and when faced with having
to identify what it is, they either have to admit
out loud that they have no idea, which happens way
more than you would imagine, or they do know and
they have to, like you said, present the actual definition,
not just to their audience but to everyone that's listening
(06:57):
and reveal themselves on the wrong side of whatever argument
that they're having.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
It's such a crazy thing to see happen. These people
flounder about, and the best ones are the ones when
they do come to terms with the reality of it,
and they have to try their best to try to
make this beautiful sounding definition have some sort of sinister
element to it, and it's not possible, because wokeness in
(07:25):
truth is something that all people should aspire to. Now, granted,
it is a slang term, and I won't keep you waiting,
so let's go ahead and read the definition. Now, this
is perfectly googleable. In fact, I just copied and pasted
in its entirety because I do want to present both
sides googleable.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I like that, Yes, but I implore you to do
the same, just so you know that we're not coloring
anything here. Excuse me. This is a term used chiefly
in the United States, and it is a slang term.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Now, wokeness is defined as aware of, an actively attentive
to importance societal facts and issues, especially issues of racial
and social justice. So it's hard to suggest that being
(08:23):
woke is sinister. In other words, to be the opposite
of this is to be frankly a racist person. And
that's why it's so difficult for these people to make
it sound bad, because they're like, well, yeah, of course
I want that too.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
It's only difficult to make it sound bad when they're
talking to someone who stands opposed to it. Exact they're
speaking in an echo chamber.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
No one's going to even question it. The definition doesn't
matter about the question. Isn't of itself a bad word
in that space. So I'll read some of the examples
of the language being used, but we will only succeed
if we reject the growing pressure to retreat into cynicism
and hopelessness. We have a moral obligation to stay woke,
(09:09):
take a stand and be active, challenge injustices and racism
in our communities, and fighting hatred and discrimination wherever it rises.
That's from Barbara Lee. Here's another one argued that Brad
Pitt is not only woke, but the wokest man in
Hollywood because he uses his status and his production company
(09:31):
Plan B to create space for artists of color with
such films as Twelve Years of Slave Selma in the
upcoming film Moodlight. This comes from Jiselle de Fares. All right,
And there's another one. Being woke to gender discrimination is difficult.
It ruins things you love. Entire canons of art are
rotten to the core with it. It's from Rachel Edelstein,
(09:54):
and I think that's where we're going to stop with
this one.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Now.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Being woke is something that also is not new. It's
something that has been around since at least the civil
rights movement, the idea being exactly what it sounds like.
There's a bunch of you know how you hear the
word sheeple all the time. I'll make up this word
(10:29):
right now. But there's a bunch of sleeple everywhere, right,
people who accept the status quo, people who just say, hey,
that's the way the world is, or people that you know,
these are the people that we get the most often.
You know, change is slow. You can't have everything overnight.
Why are you protesting? Why are you, you know, demanding
(10:51):
to be heard and insisting that we respect your rights
in this moment? Right, those would be categorized in this
thought experiment as the sleeper right, And it's the people
who are woke that recognize that it's not only possible,
it helps everybody, and there's an idea of how to
(11:13):
get there expeditiously, you know, with some intentionality, people who
have done research, people who have the insight that most
folks don't have, that would fall under the category of
being woke. That coupled with some conviction in their hearts
(11:33):
and a moral compass that points them in the positive direction,
would certainly qualified folks as being woke. Right. This supplies
to black people, supply, to white people, supply to anybody
who checks these boxes. And it's not until, in my belief,
we see folks like aoc and ilhar Oman get elected
(11:57):
to public office and get a lot of attention, or
really challenging the status quo and being champions of wolkness
in those more visible spaces that the term starts to
get co opted by the right and associated with people
(12:19):
that they hate. The concept. The idea of it is
hater proof, but if you can align it with someone
that you don't like, then people can buy into it,
and then you start to see the idea behind it shift.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Yeah, they either veil it in poor context or they
speak directly to people who feel how they feel. Right,
so they kind of turned into a two edged sword.
I can veil it in poor context, and I'm a
good enough speaker. I'm a good enough salesperson that I
can convince people that bad that it's bad, the word
bad in and of itself, and then every argument meant
(12:54):
that I make where I use it, I deliver it
in that way intentionally, and I get the sponsors I
want from people who wouldn't even take the time to
use Google. And or I'm speaking to people who feel
exactly how I feel and they celebrate me for it.
So they've done a very brilliant job of co opting it.
(13:15):
And we've talked about this on a recent episode, someone
who we once believed in ally assist in that co opting.
You know, a gentleman with a very popular TV show
on HBr. Won't say his name because I don't want
to use my platform to uplift his But my co
host and brother knows who I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Well, I mean, I know who you're talking about, and
the fact that you don't want to say his name
makes me not want to say it.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
No, I'm not going to say his name, just using
him as an example of another person who I don't
believe it is ignorant to what woke actually means. But
he has started to show some true colors in light
of I think himself, like many supporters of the right,
(14:06):
not defending the right, not defending the right wing politician,
not defending you know, our former president, but defending themselves, right,
they start to look around and realize, oh my god,
the things that are being attacked are kind of some
of the things that I feel.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It's kind of some of the things that I think.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
And I'm not bad, So then our former president couldn't
be that bad, and maybe all of these people aren't
that bad.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
You know what really bugs me because you're absolutely right.
What bugs me though, is that people think of things
often enough to your point, as good or bad, right
or wrong, as opposed to a spectrum and being fluid right.
(14:55):
In other words, once upon a time, when I was
six years old, five years old, I did some things
that I didn't know we're wrong. This was back when
(15:18):
the Ninja Turtles first came out, okay, and there was
these Ninja Turtle coloring books that they had. Turtles was
cracking listening and there were so many Ninja Turtle coloring books,
and I was just thinking like, well, if there's this
many Ninja Turtle coloring books, then they have to have
(15:39):
some for me. Just makes perfect sense. Why would they
have this many? So I took a Ninja Turtle coloring book.
Just made sense. And it wasn't until I got a
little older that I realized, ye know, that was stealing.
I didn't ask for that, that was Jack moves on
yang them. And the wild thing about it is that
(16:04):
in that moment I wouldn't have known better. But looking
back on it, I could see like, yeah, I was
the wrong thing to do. And I don't look at
myself as a bad person. You know, now older ramses
a person who's a grown man that has kind of
fleshed out the fullness of the world and the experience
(16:27):
of experiences that life holds. I got a little bit
more to work with. But rarely do I look at
things as bad or good, right or wrong. Instead, you know,
as I mentioned, there's kind of a morality what feels
like the highest good in this moment based on everything
that I know? Am I open to receiving alternative perspectives?
(16:54):
Is my goal as a human being to put goodness
into the world, whereas my goal to get as much
as I can for my own benefit or the benefit
of you know, the people that are immediately around me.
You know what I mean? How far do I want
my goodness to radiate? These are These are really foundational
(17:17):
ideas that I have to discuss in my own internal
monologue and arrive at conclusions in terms of who it.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Is that I want to be.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
And some things it makes perfect sense. Look, I got
to I gotta do my thing first. And some things
it's like, listen, I don't really stand a benefit from
this thing as much as other people do. And if
I can help, then I will help often. I mean,
you know, the story full well, in fact behind you
in the studio here we have some of our some
(17:52):
of the things that celebrators, some of the publications have
celebrated us for all the charity work we've done. We
don't like talking about it because who talks about maturity
work we've done. But at the same time, we kind
of have to because we had a lot of volunteers.
That was the name of the game. But I don't
think either one of us had the intention of going
out there to feed homeless people so we can be
(18:15):
celebrated and be you know what I'm saying, like, yeah, listen.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Quite ironically though very loudly accused of that.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
I remember, I didn't want us to start a five
or one seed three. I did not want us to
start an organization. I wanted this to just be us
doing something right, and for us to do that with
the amount of reach that we eventually did, we needed
to take those steps.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
But I wanted to remove us from it.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Because very early on that was like accusation one, these
dudes are doing this so that they can look good, right,
because we used social media to promote what we were doing,
which more than quadrupled and quintupled or ten times the
amount of people that came out and were able to
give back and have an impact. There were people who
(19:01):
would jump on Facebook and Twitter or whatever the popular
social media platform was at the time and accuse us
of doing exactly that these dudes are just doing that
so that they can look good. And I used to
always make the argument, so, what like, even if we are,
it's still the same outcome, maybe a better outcome because
(19:21):
we're quote unquote making ourselves look good.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
So I just no, I know that I know the frustration.
I remember I went through with you, of course, But yeah,
I think that that is kind of one of the
things that you know, folks need to really understand about
themselves before deciding what ultimately good and bad and right
(19:46):
and wrong means to them, because there are a lot
of people who deserve equal treatment. And if you were
to come to terms with the question that I believe
it's Jane Elliott. Elliott is the one that asked us,
you're a non black person, if you would feel comfortable
being treated the way black people are treated in this country,
(20:09):
please stand up. She asked a question twice. She says,
I don't think you heard me. If you non black
people would wake up tomorrow and be happy to be
treated by the criminal justice system, by the education system,
by the you know, on and on and on banking system,
healthcare system, you would be happy to be treated the
(20:29):
way black people are treated in this country. Please stand up.
So I ask you, our listener, if this is kind
of how you feel, or if you know people in
your world where you can ask a question like that,
it shows that they know that there's a different reality
for us, all of us, and for you to decide,
(20:55):
often enough, from a place of privilege, a place of advantage,
what is good and bad or right and wrong, It
often is going to reflect your version of reality, and
very much keep yourself insulated from that. And I will
(21:15):
make that live for you a bit. Because now secondary definition,
very much a secondary definition, very much a secondary definition
of wokeness is effectively disapproving. You'll see that also under
the same definition. So I'll read the definition beyond disapproving
(21:41):
politically liberal, as in matters of racial and social justice,
especially in a way that is considered unreasonable or extreme.
So this is the newish, newest version of the definition,
and not the primary definition, but very much a secondary
(22:03):
I want to make that very clear if I haven't
done so yet, but it basically means argumentative, combative people
that cause you to feel uncomfortable by pointing out that
you know, in matters of racial and social justice, that
(22:24):
you know your version of reality needs to change. And
often the pushback is that these people are unreasonable. And again,
that's a very easy claim to make when your children
aren't getting gunned down on video. It's a very easy
(22:45):
claim to make when healthcare outcomes are more beneficial for you,
a very easy claim to make when you're not losing wealth,
rather the opposite of true, you're gaining wealth, your people,
your you know, that list goes on. You know, it's
not just the criminal, just as education, there's employment, there's
(23:05):
you know, there's historical, documented governmental efforts plural in this country.
You know that's it's very easy to say when you're
not combating environmental racism, where your communities aren't being polluted needlessly,
it's very easy to say that these people are being
extreme and their wokeness is unreasonable. And so I say,
(23:34):
there's nothing wrong with being woke. It's way better than
being asleep. You know, you don't want to be one
of the sleeper I'm running with that word. There, go
for it. And here's a great example of what people
will pick apart, you know what I mean. So, James
(23:56):
Bond's books are kind of being rewritten to reflect modern sensitivities,
and people on the right hate this. They say, James
Bond is not supposed to be politically correct. He's James Bond, right,
So the books are being rewritten to account for the
(24:16):
world we live in. Well, once upon a time, black
people used to be called negroes until it fell out
of fashion due to cultural pressures and influences. And now
it is looked unfavorably upon calling black people negroes. You know,
we decided that we would be called black or African American,
(24:38):
and this is where we are now. So to call
someone a negro, especially like in the government documents or
on the news or anything like that in a public
space is frowned upon. And it's because of this same
type of momentum from people who would be considered woke.
Things change, such as the way of all things
Welcome to another episode of Civic Cipher. Army host Ramsy's
job is Rams This job, I am q ward.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You are tuned into Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
I'm more gain a lot to stick around for it
today because there's a lot going on in the world today.
And let me be the first to tell you we
need to help each other out. Let's let's put it
like that, all right, So first up on the show,
we are going to be talking about wokeness. As you
may know, being woke is somehow under attack or it's
(00:35):
like a bad word as a blade. And you know, I.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Always say they always find a way.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Isn't that crazy? But I always say, like, you know,
it's wild because would you rather be sleep? You know,
like it's just, you know, just the language in and
of itself is harmless. But you know, we're gonna we're
gonna peel back some layers there and redefine that for
everybody so that you don't no longer have to be
afraid of being woke. You understand a little bit of
(01:01):
history there, and you recognize the tactics that are being
used as always to try to minimize or diminish efforts
on the part of a progressive facet of this country,
trying to move us more toward what we consider to
be a racial utopia. We're also going to be talking
(01:21):
about Bill nine in Florida, so that means more Ron
DeSantis aka Donald Trump two point zero again, a lot
of nonsense, a lot of fear mongering, and a whole
lot of misinformation. And as we know, people are susceptible
(01:42):
to misinformation, so we're going to be talking about that
as well, informing you best we can with respect to that.
And we're going to dedicate our way Black History fact
to the late King Khalif Browder because he's deserving of
it and you definitely need to know about that. But
first and foremost, let's discuss some ebony excellence. Q. How
(02:02):
do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Shall we shall so?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Ebny excellence? This week is brought to you by Hip
Hop Weekly Media and I'm reading from Fenura. I believe
that's how it's pronounced. We're gonna celebrate the one and
only Gail King. So without further ado, broadcast journalist Gail King,
who was the co host of CBS Mornings, recently accepted
(02:25):
the thirty ninth Walter Cronkite Award for Excellence in Journalism,
presented by Arizona State Universities Walter Cronkite School of Journalism
and Mass Communication. Full disclosure, Q and I are both
in Arizona and we have a distant relationship with that school,
so we were very proud that they took the time
to honor a Gail King, a black woman.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Forgetta Gibson too, who indeed, yes.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
She was Yeah, shout out Yetta. But anytime we get
a chance to celebrate someone, especially in the space that
we're in, we realize how difficult it is to work
in journalism and media, so we wanted to take a moment.
I'll keep reading. There's a quote. We are very excited
to honor Gail with the thirty ninth Walter Conkite Award
and celebrate her tremendous career, Cronkite School Dean Batino L.
(03:14):
Bats Junior said at the event. It goes on to
say she has had a profound impact on a journalism
industry and the communities across the nation that benefit from
her excellence in reporting and storytelling. King is often recognized
for her longtime friendship with media mogul Oprah Winfrey. The
two women met when they were working at a local
television station in Baltimore. King has worked as a reporter
(03:35):
in Washington, d C. And Kansas City, Missouri, before becoming
a news anchor in Hartford, Connecticut. In addition to serving
as co host for CBS Mornings, King if also editor
at large for Oprah Daily and hosts a live weekly
radio show on Sirius XM. Gail King in the House.
King's net worth, I don't know why that's here, is
(03:56):
valued at forty million dollars according to Celebrity Networth. So
there you go, all right, Now, moving on what's wrong
with being woke?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Now?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
I saw a video. I think we both saw this
video this week. It was of a woman, you know,
in some sort of on some sort of show. The
host was black, a black woman, and the woman was
the guest was a white woman. And the guest says
something like, well, you know, the radical left because of
(04:39):
their woke black practices and blah blah blah blah work,
they're woke agenda something like this she said. And then
the host says, well, what does woke mean to you?
To find woke for me? And then the guest, the
white woman, she started to kind of fumble over her words,
and she's like, well, oh god, this is going to
be one of those moments that goes viral, and sure
(05:00):
enough it did, because of course we saw it. But
again she proceeded to fumble, you know, through her idea
of what wokeness is, which I think illustrates she's not
the only person to fall victim of that. Many people,
when they're asked to define what wokeness is are either
(05:23):
forced to explain that wokeness is kind of a person
who is enlightened with respect to how folks are mistreated.
This is a loose definition. We'll actually get to the
real definition. And oftentimes that person wants to pursue a
reality where people are treated more fairly. And so when
(05:48):
people attack wokeness, people who attack wokeness are forced to
identify it. Then they're forced to kind of come face
to face with the idea that they're on the wrong
side of history. To be frank, and so not to
pick on any one person, because we recognize that everyone
is susceptible to and that is.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
However, not not unique to woke or wokeness.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Oh yeah, like words like socialism, words like critical race theory,
words that the other side, if you will, uses in
poor context to stoke the fear or hate or you know,
whatever their agenda is with their audience, and then their
audience just adopts it.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
They don't do any research, they don't they don't even
seek to understand beyond that, and when faced with having
to identify what it is, they either have to admit
out loud that they have no idea, which happens way
more than you would imagine, or they do know and
they have to, like you said, present the actual definition,
not just to their audience but to everyone that's listening
(06:57):
and reveal themselves on the wrong side of whatever argument
that they're having.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
It's such a crazy thing to see happen. These people
flounder about, and the best ones are the ones when
they do come to terms with the reality of it,
and they have to try their best to try to
make this beautiful sounding definition have some sort of sinister
element to it, and it's not possible, because wokeness in
(07:25):
truth is something that all people should aspire to. Now, granted,
it is a slang term, and I won't keep you waiting,
so let's go ahead and read the definition. Now, this
is perfectly googleable. In fact, I just copied and pasted
in its entirety because I do want to present both
sides googleable.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
I like that, Yes, but I implore you to do
the same, just so you know that we're not coloring
anything here. Excuse me. This is a term used chiefly
in the United States, and it is a slang term.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Now, wokeness is defined as aware of, an actively attentive
to importance societal facts and issues, especially issues of racial
and social justice. So it's hard to suggest that being
(08:23):
woke is sinister. In other words, to be the opposite
of this is to be frankly a racist person. And
that's why it's so difficult for these people to make
it sound bad, because they're like, well, yeah, of course
I want that too.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
It's only difficult to make it sound bad when they're
talking to someone who stands opposed to it. Exact they're
speaking in an echo chamber.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
No one's going to even question it. The definition doesn't
matter about the question. Isn't of itself a bad word
in that space. So I'll read some of the examples
of the language being used, but we will only succeed
if we reject the growing pressure to retreat into cynicism
and hopelessness. We have a moral obligation to stay woke,
(09:09):
take a stand and be active, challenge injustices and racism
in our communities, and fighting hatred and discrimination wherever it rises.
That's from Barbara Lee. Here's another one argued that Brad
Pitt is not only woke, but the wokest man in
Hollywood because he uses his status and his production company
(09:31):
Plan B to create space for artists of color with
such films as Twelve Years of Slave Selma in the
upcoming film Moodlight. This comes from Jiselle de Fares. All right,
And there's another one. Being woke to gender discrimination is difficult.
It ruins things you love. Entire canons of art are
rotten to the core with it. It's from Rachel Edelstein,
(09:54):
and I think that's where we're going to stop with
this one.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Now.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Being woke is something that also is not new. It's
something that has been around since at least the civil
rights movement, the idea being exactly what it sounds like.
There's a bunch of you know how you hear the
word sheeple all the time. I'll make up this word
(10:29):
right now. But there's a bunch of sleeple everywhere, right,
people who accept the status quo, people who just say, hey,
that's the way the world is, or people that you know,
these are the people that we get the most often.
You know, change is slow. You can't have everything overnight.
Why are you protesting? Why are you, you know, demanding
(10:51):
to be heard and insisting that we respect your rights
in this moment? Right, those would be categorized in this
thought experiment as the sleeper right, And it's the people
who are woke that recognize that it's not only possible,
it helps everybody, and there's an idea of how to
(11:13):
get there expeditiously, you know, with some intentionality, people who
have done research, people who have the insight that most
folks don't have, that would fall under the category of
being woke. That coupled with some conviction in their hearts
(11:33):
and a moral compass that points them in the positive direction,
would certainly qualified folks as being woke. Right. This supplies
to black people, supply, to white people, supply to anybody
who checks these boxes. And it's not until, in my belief,
we see folks like aoc and ilhar Oman get elected
(11:57):
to public office and get a lot of attention, or
really challenging the status quo and being champions of wolkness
in those more visible spaces that the term starts to
get co opted by the right and associated with people
(12:19):
that they hate. The concept. The idea of it is
hater proof, but if you can align it with someone
that you don't like, then people can buy into it,
and then you start to see the idea behind it shift.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
Yeah, they either veil it in poor context or they
speak directly to people who feel how they feel. Right,
so they kind of turned into a two edged sword.
I can veil it in poor context, and I'm a
good enough speaker. I'm a good enough salesperson that I
can convince people that bad that it's bad, the word
bad in and of itself, and then every argument meant
(12:54):
that I make where I use it, I deliver it
in that way intentionally, and I get the sponsors I
want from people who wouldn't even take the time to
use Google. And or I'm speaking to people who feel
exactly how I feel and they celebrate me for it.
So they've done a very brilliant job of co opting it.
(13:15):
And we've talked about this on a recent episode, someone
who we once believed in ally assist in that co opting.
You know, a gentleman with a very popular TV show
on HBr. Won't say his name because I don't want
to use my platform to uplift his But my co
host and brother knows who I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Well, I mean, I know who you're talking about, and
the fact that you don't want to say his name
makes me not want to say it.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
No, I'm not going to say his name, just using
him as an example of another person who I don't
believe it is ignorant to what woke actually means. But
he has started to show some true colors in light
of I think himself, like many supporters of the right,
(14:06):
not defending the right, not defending the right wing politician,
not defending you know, our former president, but defending themselves, right,
they start to look around and realize, oh my god,
the things that are being attacked are kind of some
of the things that I feel.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It's kind of some of the things that I think.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
And I'm not bad, So then our former president couldn't
be that bad, and maybe all of these people aren't
that bad.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
You know what really bugs me because you're absolutely right.
What bugs me though, is that people think of things
often enough to your point, as good or bad, right
or wrong, as opposed to a spectrum and being fluid right.
(14:55):
In other words, once upon a time, when I was
six years old, five years old, I did some things
that I didn't know we're wrong. This was back when
(15:18):
the Ninja Turtles first came out, okay, and there was
these Ninja Turtle coloring books that they had. Turtles was
cracking listening and there were so many Ninja Turtle coloring books,
and I was just thinking like, well, if there's this
many Ninja Turtle coloring books, then they have to have
(15:39):
some for me. Just makes perfect sense. Why would they
have this many? So I took a Ninja Turtle coloring book.
Just made sense. And it wasn't until I got a
little older that I realized, ye know, that was stealing.
I didn't ask for that, that was Jack moves on
yang them. And the wild thing about it is that
(16:04):
in that moment I wouldn't have known better. But looking
back on it, I could see like, yeah, I was
the wrong thing to do. And I don't look at
myself as a bad person. You know, now older ramses
a person who's a grown man that has kind of
fleshed out the fullness of the world and the experience
(16:27):
of experiences that life holds. I got a little bit
more to work with. But rarely do I look at
things as bad or good, right or wrong. Instead, you know,
as I mentioned, there's kind of a morality what feels
like the highest good in this moment based on everything
that I know? Am I open to receiving alternative perspectives?
(16:54):
Is my goal as a human being to put goodness
into the world, whereas my goal to get as much
as I can for my own benefit or the benefit
of you know, the people that are immediately around me.
You know what I mean? How far do I want
my goodness to radiate? These are These are really foundational
(17:17):
ideas that I have to discuss in my own internal
monologue and arrive at conclusions in terms of who it.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Is that I want to be.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
And some things it makes perfect sense. Look, I got
to I gotta do my thing first. And some things
it's like, listen, I don't really stand a benefit from
this thing as much as other people do. And if
I can help, then I will help often. I mean,
you know, the story full well, in fact behind you
in the studio here we have some of our some
(17:52):
of the things that celebrators, some of the publications have
celebrated us for all the charity work we've done. We
don't like talking about it because who talks about maturity
work we've done. But at the same time, we kind
of have to because we had a lot of volunteers.
That was the name of the game. But I don't
think either one of us had the intention of going
out there to feed homeless people so we can be
(18:15):
celebrated and be you know what I'm saying, like, yeah, listen.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Quite ironically though very loudly accused of that.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
I remember, I didn't want us to start a five
or one seed three. I did not want us to
start an organization. I wanted this to just be us
doing something right, and for us to do that with
the amount of reach that we eventually did, we needed
to take those steps.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
But I wanted to remove us from it.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Because very early on that was like accusation one, these
dudes are doing this so that they can look good, right,
because we used social media to promote what we were doing,
which more than quadrupled and quintupled or ten times the
amount of people that came out and were able to
give back and have an impact. There were people who
(19:01):
would jump on Facebook and Twitter or whatever the popular
social media platform was at the time and accuse us
of doing exactly that these dudes are just doing that
so that they can look good. And I used to
always make the argument, so, what like, even if we are,
it's still the same outcome, maybe a better outcome because
(19:21):
we're quote unquote making ourselves look good.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
So I just no, I know that I know the frustration.
I remember I went through with you, of course, But yeah,
I think that that is kind of one of the
things that you know, folks need to really understand about
themselves before deciding what ultimately good and bad and right
(19:46):
and wrong means to them, because there are a lot
of people who deserve equal treatment. And if you were
to come to terms with the question that I believe
it's Jane Elliott. Elliott is the one that asked us,
you're a non black person, if you would feel comfortable
being treated the way black people are treated in this country,
(20:09):
please stand up. She asked a question twice. She says,
I don't think you heard me. If you non black
people would wake up tomorrow and be happy to be
treated by the criminal justice system, by the education system,
by the you know, on and on and on banking system,
healthcare system, you would be happy to be treated the
(20:29):
way black people are treated in this country. Please stand up.
So I ask you, our listener, if this is kind
of how you feel, or if you know people in
your world where you can ask a question like that,
it shows that they know that there's a different reality
for us, all of us, and for you to decide,
(20:55):
often enough, from a place of privilege, a place of advantage,
what is good and bad or right and wrong, It
often is going to reflect your version of reality, and
very much keep yourself insulated from that. And I will
(21:15):
make that live for you a bit. Because now secondary definition,
very much a secondary definition, very much a secondary definition
of wokeness is effectively disapproving. You'll see that also under
the same definition. So I'll read the definition beyond disapproving
(21:41):
politically liberal, as in matters of racial and social justice,
especially in a way that is considered unreasonable or extreme.
So this is the newish, newest version of the definition,
and not the primary definition, but very much a secondary
(22:03):
I want to make that very clear if I haven't
done so yet, but it basically means argumentative, combative people
that cause you to feel uncomfortable by pointing out that
you know, in matters of racial and social justice, that
(22:24):
you know your version of reality needs to change. And
often the pushback is that these people are unreasonable. And again,
that's a very easy claim to make when your children
aren't getting gunned down on video. It's a very easy
(22:45):
claim to make when healthcare outcomes are more beneficial for you,
a very easy claim to make when you're not losing wealth,
rather the opposite of true, you're gaining wealth, your people,
your you know, that list goes on. You know, it's
not just the criminal, just as education, there's employment, there's
(23:05):
you know, there's historical, documented governmental efforts plural in this country.
You know that's it's very easy to say when you're
not combating environmental racism, where your communities aren't being polluted needlessly,
it's very easy to say that these people are being
extreme and their wokeness is unreasonable. And so I say,
(23:34):
there's nothing wrong with being woke. It's way better than
being asleep. You know, you don't want to be one
of the sleeper I'm running with that word. There, go
for it. And here's a great example of what people
will pick apart, you know what I mean. So, James
(23:56):
Bond's books are kind of being rewritten to reflect modern sensitivities,
and people on the right hate this. They say, James
Bond is not supposed to be politically correct. He's James Bond, right,
So the books are being rewritten to account for the
(24:16):
world we live in. Well, once upon a time, black
people used to be called negroes until it fell out
of fashion due to cultural pressures and influences. And now
it is looked unfavorably upon calling black people negroes. You know,
we decided that we would be called black or African American,
(24:38):
and this is where we are now. So to call
someone a negro, especially like in the government documents or
on the news or anything like that in a public
space is frowned upon. And it's because of this same
type of momentum from people who would be considered woke.
Things change, such as the way of all things
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