January 20, 2023 • 43 mins
This week, Rachel Zoe speaks with celebrity stylist and fashion powerhouse Maeve Reilly about what influenced her sense of style, how she dealt with bullies growing up and what kicked off her styling career.
Maeve also mentions that Rachel Zoe has always been her idol from when she was interning in the costume department for a Hallmark show when she was 17 to now, when she styles celebrities like Hailey Bieber and Janelle Monáe.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Currently with Kiatore, where I share my
latest style of obsessions, all of which you can access
through my shopping community Katour. As a Climbing and Heels listener,
you're getting the earliest scoop. We're having a Winter warehouse
sale and get really excited about it. Beginning tomorrow, January twentieth,
you can take an additional thirty percent off a selection
(00:23):
of my favorites, from chic accessories to skincare heroes and beyond.
You have through January thirty first to shop the sale,
and all you have to do is use code Winter
thirty at checkout to get the epic savings. So mark
your calendars and check out the sales starting tomorrow at
kiatore dot com. That's Cure at eu R dot com.
(00:55):
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Heels. This show is all about celebrating the most
extraordinary superwomen who will be sharing their incredible journeys to
the top, all while staying glamorous. Today with me, we
have one of the greatest stylists of our generation, Fashion powerhouse,
(01:15):
mave Rightly. She styles some of the biggest celebrities we
know and love, and I'm so excited to speak with
me about what influenced her sense of style, how she
dealt with countless bullies and mean girls, how her styling
career kicked off, and what she looks forward to working
on in the future. Hi cutie. Okay, so people obviously
(01:40):
know you, if our listeners who don't Meeve is one
of the greatest stylists of our time, our generation current.
I you know, watched you come out into the world,
and from the outside you seem like this like tough
as bitch stylist, right, but you're not. You're actually this
like mushy, sweet person. But I think it's really important
(02:03):
to really go back a little bit to sort of
like who the hell were you before? Like, meaning, did
you always want to be a stylist? I'm like, there
was no freaking such thing. I didn't even know when
I became a stylist that there was a stylist. But
you're much younger, and I think coming up in a
different generation. I think now there are like textbooks on styling,
(02:23):
there's school for styling, there's courses, there's mentorships, there's all
kinds of things. So I think for me and our listeners,
I think it would be important to sort of understand
a little bit, you know, like who you were and
what you were thinking about, and what kind of like
kid teenager were you and did you even go to school? Well,
(02:43):
thank you for saying all of those very nice things
about me, for anyone who doesn't know. You were my
like idol. You know, when I was a kid before
there was social media, because when I started, there wasn't
still maybe like space, you know, but obviously our business
wasn't there, and the only person that existed in this
(03:07):
space was you and this and your show. So to
answer your question, I definitely always knew fashion with my thing.
I didn't know because of social media that this career existed,
that this was an option. It was like when I
went to school, it was like a fashion design or
be a buyer. You know. It was definitely like very
(03:27):
There was not a lot in between. And I couldn't draw,
I couldn't sew, and I wanted to, but I just I, yeah,
I don't have the ability to do it. I was
a super angsty teen I was bullied. You know. I've
talked about this at nauseum from third grade until basically
my senior year in high school, where I was sent
(03:49):
away to rehab. I've been sober for eighteen years. Next
month will be eighteen years. Good for you. And you
grew up in New York City, correct, Yeah? Yeah, and
I had no outlet for that bullying. You know, I'm
not going to say that I became like an addict
because of you know, a lot of people believe it's
like you're born with it or whatever. But because I
(04:11):
was ostracized so much and I had so much. I'm
also very empathic and I'm very sensitive. So when I
think of what that must have been like for a
little kid who didn't know how to describe, like, oh,
I'm taking on these feelings from other people or uncomfortable
and I don't know why, you know, I think it
was just really heavy for me as a kid. And
(04:33):
then you add the bullying, never feeling safe. I mean, karma,
I guess is the only answer. Like it was just
whatever for whatever reason. It's like what I was supposed
to learn on this plane on Earth, you know, I
don't know, you know, And it was constant, it was
it never ended. I think because of that, I obviously
got really tough. I obviously at some point learned to
(04:56):
fight back, and so it took me a really long
time to shake that. And so you add in like
I end up in this industry, and then you add
in being like a young woman without an agent, without
anyone looking out for you, and we have one thing.
Did you go to college? Yeah? I did? I want
(05:16):
to fight. That's an important step because we talk a
lot about education and how it doesn't define you and
that every woman I've had on this podcast has had
a totally different background and some like left dropped out
in high school, some junior high school, someone all the
way someone to ivy Lea, Like it's just really interesting.
I hated it rightfully, and like I had a very
(05:38):
conservative sort of family that just felt like that is
what you do in life if you go to college,
and it's sort of a non negotiable. I wish they
could have seen a little bit more of who I,
my actual essence of who I was, that that wasn't
really the right path for me. I started styling when
I was going into my freshman year of college. So
(05:59):
I was in school, I was interning on its TV
show in New York, and I was working in retail
whole time. You know. For me, I got a liberal
arts degree at George Washington, which I loved and learned
from and Psychnator and the whole thing. But like, given
the opportunity, I would have chosen a fashion school for sure,
had I really thought about it. You know, they had
(06:20):
high school classes that I actually took too. So on
Saturdays you could take two three hour courses and then
on in the summer it was like a three week course,
four days a week, and I did that somehow. Wow,
I just knew that it was where I was supposed
to be. I just didn't. Again, there weren't the like
resources to become a silent at the time, and no
(06:41):
one was talking about it and no one knew about it.
So when I walked onto this set when I was seventeen,
and I was like, wait a minute, this is real,
Like you can this is a job, you know, Like
I had a never been on a TV show or
red set or anything, and this stylist, I'll never forget it.
(07:01):
Her name is Laura Souland. She's still working in New York,
and she she was like commercial whatever, different world, and
she was like, okay, runs the burg Dwarfs. Here's my Ambax.
Hands me her plum card, remember the plong cards that
were okays, her Blong card, and she's like, go to
Burgdwarfs and get every pair of beige pants you can
find in a size six. And I was like okay,
(07:24):
and she's like, saved the receipt. Then take a taxi
and I'm like okay, you know, like first day, and
I did, and I was like I can't leave that.
This is a job, Like what And then it gets
to come back to a set and like sit here
and like hang out and like see all this thing.
You know, you're like what the hell? So that was
like my first intro and as soon as I saw it,
(07:45):
I was like this is this? Is it for me?
And then I think that would have been oh six,
And then you popped up right after, you know, and
I think when I first started, the only person that
people were really talking about was Pat Fields. It's like
breaking legend, I don't know. And then you came along
and I was like la what Yeah, Like what the hell? Wait?
(08:07):
That's so funny because like for me, you know, I
did a freelance job and I had a very similar
reaction because I was styling on my own at the magazine,
making like five dollars a guy like whatever it was.
And I worked for this freelance stylist who was at
the magazine and she was like, here's was literally like
(08:30):
ten thousand dollars. Go get twenty suits and ten pairs
of denim and what save every receipt. You're gonna have
to glue it onto a piece of paper and like hope.
And it's funny because I had a very similar like response,
which was like is this for real? Because and in hindsight,
(08:52):
I'm like, oh my god, it was like in hurricanes, blizzards,
like going up you know, seven floor walk ups to
these like awful studios spaces that weren't even studios. They
were disgusting, And like, in hindsight, it really helped, I think,
shape who you become because you know, as you know,
it's not glamorous most of the time. And but no,
(09:16):
and I think I think the only glamorous moments are
the ones that people see where like your client may
like advocate for you and you know, do a photoshoot
with you on your behalf right, and that is like
a moment and you're like, what just happened, but I
didn't really have those moments. But I think, I think
(09:36):
to your point. You know, first of all, it's so
interesting because I find that creative people very often are
misunderstood and they don't know how to really express it.
And I think now we're living in a time, thankfully,
where there are so many opportunities for creative people not
only to express themselves but also to be who they are.
(09:56):
And I think that in your time that is probably
just beginning. In my time did not exist at all.
You know. The thing I saw in you immediately was
how much you loved it and how grateful you were
to be doing it, and that it clearly was not
handed to you. And you know, very similar to you,
(10:20):
I was mean girled most of my life and had
to kind of figure out how to get to where
I wanted to be somehow by being kind and just
working my ass off, right, And how hard is it
to be in a business that is full of mean girl? Yes,
it's true. I mean, let's be true, you know, and
I say all the time. And also you know the
(10:42):
part of it too that's very hard for me now
and I have to work through, you know, the clients
for instance, it can trigger that like young kid trauma
of like oh that client moved on. And it's hard
not to take it personally because the first time you
called me, yeah, it's very traumatizing, you know, it's very
It's I say to my therapist all the time, like,
(11:02):
it's crazy to me that I have now manifested a
future as an adult that's basically replaying out my childhood,
but now as an adult with a million people watching. Yes,
I want to talk about that because the mean girl
thing is very important to discuss, and the reason being,
And I asked this actually of all the women I
(11:23):
have on the podcast, like, hey, have you had haters,
have you had challenges? How did you deal with it? Whatever?
And a lot of them really didn't. And there was
one woman that I had for them, but right, and
I said, wow, what's that like? And I would look
at Mary, who's always like with me, and I'm like,
why did I get so destroyed by women? What is that?
And so I obviously never manifested it. I never would ever,
(11:46):
but I will say this, I think it forced me
to drive my own path and not expect anything from people.
And I think that if you manage that expectation early,
you're so pleasantly surprised when you get supported by amazing women.
But I think to your point as a stylist, and
I remember when I became a stylist, my sister has
(12:07):
said to me, God, you picked a really ironic business
for someone that has had such problems with women's support.
But I will say, that's why in this time where
everyone's championing women. And I agree that women can do anything,
and I agree that women are invincible on some level
(12:31):
and that we can handle two thousand things at once,
I think that not enough credit goes to those men
that sit next to us, that support us. I think
that for you, styling has been this sort of amazing
creative outlet for you where you can live your best life.
But I think that you still continue to get hurt
(12:51):
when you get let down by people, which is the same.
And I remember you calling me about a client and
how you deal with this and all the stuff. And
I remember losing my first client and it had a
happy ending because she came back. But I literally, I think,
didn't leave my house for like two weeks because I
was horrified. I thought I was literally never going to
(13:12):
work again. I cried. My agent was like happens all
the time, Like, yeah, they're not loyal. They're loyal to
hair and makeup, but they're not loyal to stylist because anyone.
They think anybody can dress them, but when it comes
to their faces. Yeah, I was like, okay, okay, okay,
but but I think just watching you forge your path,
(13:33):
I'm really watching you living the dream that you manifested.
Because also, if I might add, and we can go
back to this, I think you were very clear when
I met you, which is why I just remember going, god,
I love her. You. You were like, hold on, I
want to live the fairytale, like I'm working this hard
(13:55):
because I want that life. I want to be in love,
I want to be loved, I want to be a mom,
like all these things. And I just remember going, okay,
So I fully wasn't expecting that from I really wasn't.
I don't know why, but like I just wasn't. And
I think, you know, was there anyone in your life,
(14:17):
professionally or personally that really was that person that like
either you looked up to and didn't know or did know,
or a person that you did know really well that
said you are so talented, you have gifts, you're really special,
like or you just kind of went at it yourself
and said, I hope I survived this this insanity I think.
I think in the beginning, there wasn't a lot of
(14:40):
support the stylist that I had worked for, you know,
just it wasn't on their radar. I know I went
through a lot to get here, and I also know
how I want to support my assistance as they move on,
like I'm a big cheerleader for all of that. You know.
My last four assistance gone on to do big shit,
(15:01):
you know, and I'm so proud of them. And the
one I have now, who I'm praying never actually leaves
one does. When she does, I will be her biggest cheerleader.
It's really important to me because I feel like I
didn't really have that. It's also just a different time,
and I think that's really good. I think the industry
has changed in hundreds of ways, hundreds of ways. But
(15:23):
I do want to go back to the assistant thing
for a second, because I think that's really important to
talk about in this journey of climbing in heels, Because
you know, you and I have talked about I was
an assistant for a long time. I mean I and
I just don't even feel like people do that like anymore,
you know, as long as I did. I mean I
was between interning and assisting like nine years. That's insane,
(15:47):
like a long time. And I switched cities, so you know,
I did it in New York. I was in school,
I was working retail, so it's not like I was
in it like full time. The economy crash in two
thousand and eight, and I was somehow able to like
live off unemployment and take like random styling jobs that
I would find on literally craigslists. Okay, because again no
social media. Wow, I'm like Craigslist, Like wow. You know.
(16:12):
I landed an assisting job with Robin Maryelle when they
were styling Rihanna, sweet people, yeah, the best, and learned
so much. But then I moved to LA and so
then it was like that was eleven years ago. So
now it's sort of like, Okay, now, who were all
these people and how do I and where do I
fit in sure? And then finding my way, So you know,
(16:32):
it was a long road for me. And I see
these kids today and I don't know if it's like
a generational thing. But I just I think they think
they can do this for like a year and like
learn what they need to learn and then go out
on their own, and maybe that works. Sometimes I don't
believe in that way, but I think, I mean, God
bless whatever someone's journey is. But it took me a
(16:53):
long time to get here, you know. Well, going back
to what you said earlier, I did a job where
I ended up working with Pat Fields that was like
literally like my assisting and I just remember, like I
was terrified of her and she was brilliant but like
a legend, and I was like, what if I say
(17:14):
the wrong thing, what if I do the wrong thing?
What if I Yeah, you know, I think we don't
realize the power of social media and the access that
that provides for people. And it's very impressive that you
assisted for that long. Actually, I want to go back
to you being an advocate for your assistance because I
think that's an important thing to note. Because I have
a thing that I always say is that everyone's going
(17:36):
to leave someday, right, and maybe they won't. I mean,
I know people that have worked in the same place
for twenty years, twenty five years and hopefully they don't.
I mean, I people that have worked with me eleven years,
ten years, twelve years like great. But the thing is
people need to move right And it's not that you leave.
It's never that you leave, it's how you leave. And
I think that's the most important thing that people could
(17:58):
ever learn in any industry. No one expects you to
work for them forever, right, and if you do, that's delusional.
But I think at the end of the day, when
someone's really talented and they need to make a change,
you have to support that. But it's how you do it.
And I've had people that have left me come back.
They still work with us freelance, they still consult with us,
(18:18):
they're still part of our family forever. And then of
course they have a handful of people that left in
the absolute wrong way and I want them nowhere near
my life. There's a lot to learn from that, and
I think in people's work journeys, I think that's really important.
I think the fact that you advocate for your assistance
and they go on to have these incredible careers is
such an amazing takeaway for people because I think that's
(18:39):
a huge challenge in any industry. Well, I just think
it's like they're at the end of the day. It
only it's like if my assistant leave. By the way,
my assistant from a million years ago, let me just
name them. Off is Kim Kardashian Silas Oh, I met her,
she's great. I met her a long time ago. Yes, Okay.
Then there is Morgan, who's now my best friend, who
(19:02):
styles Becky ge and like a bunch of other girls
of it. Then there's Alex who's now styling Kylie Jenner
and Travis Scott. I mean, it's like it goes Also,
I have a weird Kardashian karma. They all leave me
for Kardashians. I don't know why, and my girls are
good girls, and I just think it's like it only
reflects on me, like they learned everything they needed to learn.
They have great taste that probably you know, came from themselves,
(19:23):
but also for me and watching what I did for
so long, and then they're going on to do their
own thing. And I just really am a big believer
and there's enough work for everyone. I also believe that
every client ends up with who they're supposed to end
up with. Like if someone leaves me and it's a
better fit somewhere else. I'm like, God, bless you know. Also,
(19:44):
I've done fittings with people, and I'm sure you've had
the same experience where one job and I'm like, that
was not for me. I don't need that person ever again, Yep,
that energy was not It wasn't a good fit. And like,
the longer you do this, I think and more, are
you realized that so much about your Yeah, it's so
much about your like energy exchange with someone in the
(20:06):
same way that, like you said earlier, like one hundred
different stylists can put a dress on you, but it's
the vibe, it's the magic one hundred percent. I agree,
But I would say that you know, something we also
talk about on climbing and hills is sort of the
confidence through experience, right, because so when I think of
(20:27):
my twenty something self styling, I would never turn down
a job. I would be verbally abused by whomever, work
for thirty six hours straight and I'll ask for overtime
or water or watery yeah, yeah, water or air. But
I do think through the experience, you know what to
(20:47):
walk away from, and you know what doesn't feel right,
and you have that you have that confidence in yourself
to be like, oh no, no no, I'm not working with
this worse than anymore, and you know you're going to
work again. Oh yeah, I have like a nice person
only rule now. You know. It's like I was tortured
enough in my first ten years, not only assisting but
doing my own thing by certain clients, and I just
(21:09):
won't do it anymore. You're taking me away from my peace,
from my life, you know, from my Beyonce, from my
future children, from taking a trip. I am not going
to sacrifice my peace on behalf of an unhappy client.
He's obviously unhappy with themselves and it has nothing to
(21:30):
do with me. So I'm just I'm just not gonna
do it anymore. Now. I did do it, and as
I said, I said no to nothing ever, nothing, you know,
I did every job that ever, you know, like just
sure because you thought you'd never worried again, and listen.
I think that's advice I would give anyone. Though. It's
like when you are starting, like do everything, do every
(21:51):
kind of job to do, you know, like just get
your get your toe in the water and figure out
what feels good and what you like to do and
what you don't like to do. I thought I was
going to be on men'swear stylist, and you know, truthfully,
like I started that, Yeah, yeah, so did I and
I got you know, Janelle Money came into my life
(22:13):
because at the time she was still in suits and
ties and ties and showing zero skin and hired me
because I knew how to addressed men, and she changed
the trajectory of my entire career. But I think also
part of that not just got boring. I actually think
I was just too scared to believe that I could
(22:33):
compete in this arena with other women's stylists. It was
I was looking up to the you know, to the
generation above me, and thinking there's just no way that
I'm going to fit in there, you know, and breaking
into the like publicist game, it's never been my thing.
It's just for whatever reason, they don't call me. Every
client I've ever gotten has been on my own, like
(22:55):
you said, have and like you have had to sort
of forge my own way. You know. All of these big,
big clients I've changed my life have come to me
directly to me, It's like make the B or C
list or the no name girl look amazing. With limited resources,
and that's a good styling. One thing I think is
really important and it's something that I definitely had to
(23:16):
deal with in my career, very unplanned and unexpectedly. It
made me incredibly uncomfortable. Do you feel that when you
became more well known you lost clients? Yeah? Yeah, And
so I think it's interesting because I think it goes
back to a little bit of like when your team
(23:38):
moves on, or like you felt supported to a point,
and then it's a little bit like that because it's
sort of like your clients love you while you're the stylist,
and then if the camera turns a new whether you
ask for it to or not, some will stay because
(23:59):
they don't care and they're confident in themselves and that
doesn't affect them. And some will be like, Nope, time
to change and what and how do you feel about
that in terms of and I ask you this just
more on like, because I feel like you're at a
point in your life where being happy is the number
one most important thing for you, being at peace and
(24:19):
being happy, right, And so I think clearly there are
a ton of clients that are like godspeed, maybe's crushing it.
Her brand's crushing it. She's she's so successful within her
own brand, but she still loves me and looks after
me first, right, Yeah, I mean the thing that's tricky
(24:40):
and no one knows is better than you, Like you're
you went in a different direction, right, like you are,
Like I need a break, Like I'm burnt out, and
I see other opportunities maybe that are worth my time
in a different way. I mean, I don't. I got hurt.
I got hurt too much by people that we're working
with me. How about that I got? I got and
(25:00):
then yes that I was like, I can't do this again.
I need a minute. I learned through the process that
at the end of the day, the only thing I
can rely on is myself. Yes, And so if doing
my brand partnerships are something I can rely on, then
that's something that I need to do. Yeah. If starting
my own brand is something I can rely on within myself,
(25:21):
then that's what I need to do. I we all
know that clients come and go, you know, and some
moments are easier and summer harder, And that's like sort
of an internal journey, right, And I think I think
people's trauma plays a part in that, Like how something
might affect me in that way, like for me, right,
like might be so traumatizing and so painful. But then
(25:45):
for the next person and they're like, this is just
what happens. What are you talking about? Right? No, it's true,
you know, and it's your own own past experience of
how that affects you. Now For me, like as we've
talked about, it's harder for me, I take things harder.
I'm sensitive, I'm empathic, I'm like I you know. And
(26:05):
as much as I of course support whatever their next
chapter is with whoever that is, because I do, it
doesn't change the fact that it's it's triggering to like
that little girl and me that's like why are you leaving? Sure?
You know? Sure, So it's complicated and thank god for
good therapists. Yeah, and by the way, yeah, but but
(26:26):
I have to say, like, I think you're doing it
all right, and I think you and I think you're
going at it exactly as you should. You're in great
hands with Kent because he loves you. You guys are
like family. You know. We've talked so much about challenges
and the journey to get here, which was not easy,
and I think what I want to know is sort
(26:47):
of like what is the dream for next? You know,
like what do you like? Because I do think that
you manifest things. I think you're a huge manifest or
I'm not, and I think I have to start manifested.
Really yeah, well, my team calls me a witch. I
sort of see things before they happen. Well, so I have,
but I don't address it. That's a thing like I
(27:07):
don't go, Okay, this is what's going to happen, this
is what I want to happen, because then I feel
like I'm I'm going to trip over it. Right, So
I think for you, like from where I sit, the
dream's happening right for you. But I think I want
to know because I'm sure it's pretty clear for you,
like what is the dream professionally? Personally I think it's
already happening. But it's so funny because professionally I feel
(27:29):
like I haven't even like touched what I want to do.
You haven't. When I say that, there has been challenges
of like publicists don't want to use me or whatever,
Like I just feel like I've so much in me.
I have so much ability to do what I did
with Hailey, what I did with Janelle what, you know,
like I help these women express themselves grow, you know,
(27:52):
and I want to continue to do that. So it's different.
It's like doing the things that really like light my
soul on fire, you know. I want to just I
want to go back to one thing that you had
sort of touched on earlier. And that's like with my childhood,
with being bullied, with never feeling safe, with having to
become really tough to protect myself because every day I
was trying to just survive. You bring that into your
(28:14):
adult life and you have this like wall, right, I
had a wall that was like don't fucking touch me,
you know, like stay away for me. I don't trust anybody.
Then you add this business. You're just this young, pretty
little girl that's like trying to get jobs and trying
to get budgets and doing music videos for four dollars,
and there's no way to advocate for yourself other than
(28:38):
to be tough, you know, and be like no, I
won't do that job for you know, thirty six hours,
and then you get called difficult. I had sort of
like everything working against me in a way of like
really that little sweet part of myself that was always
there just was never really felt safe to come out,
you know, exactly correct. I think that coming up in
(28:59):
a career, I think I've met women that don't give
one shit what people say or think about them. I
always want a shit, So I'm not that person. I'm
not either. I don't think I'll ever be that person.
And I think that's why I'm somewhat insular, because I
do have a wallup. I think there is finding when
you are a woman who is striving for success and
(29:21):
ultimately achieving success, I think you just I think the
biggest learning along the way is to not become a hater,
not become a cynic, because that's detrimental to yourself. Then
they won. But I do think it is imperative to
keep a little bit of a wall up, a safe wall,
(29:41):
and keeping ten eyes open as to who people really
are and what because I'm so sadly a pro at
that now. I see the red flags, I see the science,
and I know ultimately how something will end before it
ends now, But it took me my whole career. Yeah,
(30:02):
Like still I feel like just in that moment now
of like and you know, mentioning my fiance, it's like
you know, starting a new chapter of my life, the
one that I've wanted for so long, you know, and
I think realizing what really matters, and that is my family,
that is my guy, that is our future children, you know,
(30:24):
and and keeping it smaller than it was, you know,
because that's what matters, and that's where my energy needs
to be. And like it's just what it is, and
scratching the surface of what is to come, and I think,
there can't wait. It's the best thing I was. I
was like cleaning out closets and drawers, like into the
(30:46):
new year on the break, and I found a list
I had written. I'd always believed in writing like a
relationship ideals list or even you could do it for
a client, you use it for anything, rightly. But I
had written out everything I wanted in a partner. And
I found the pieces of paper. It was two pieces
of paper. I read it and I'm looking at Zach
and he literally is every single thing. There's not one
(31:09):
thing missing. And I truly like I slept. It was
in my nightstand, you know, it was like next to
me for however long I had been there, and here's
this guy, you know, who's got all the things I've
ever wanted, and I feel like it took me in
a really long time to find him, but that was
my doesn't matter, It doesn't matter. I always say later
is better. The ones that start really early typically forever,
(31:31):
not forever. If I could tell my younger self something,
that's exactly what I would say, because now that I
have it, I'm like, well, thank God for all the
fun that I had and all the like, you know, like,
because now this is just what it is. But it
always works out, you know, it always works out. I'm
so happy for you, and you know, if it means anything,
I noticed you. I adore you. I think you're so talented.
(31:54):
I think you have your own thing, and I think
that you're just starting to make your mark on the world.
The most importantly that you have clearly achieved, you know,
inner peace and happiness, because ultimately everything else follows after that.
If you don't have that, nothing really can work. I
totally agree with you. Yeah, no, thank you. I mean,
(32:15):
you know, you paved the road for so many not
only stylist but businesswomen, and I'm just so grateful that
we get to know each other that I get. I mean,
I don't know if I did I ever tell you
the story? But my friend we drove past you, like
eleven years ago. My friend was like, follow her and
give her your resume? Did I ever tell you the story?
(32:36):
I came to La. It was probably like the height
of your show. I don't even think I was living
here yet. Oh my god, and you were like my
you know, and my friend and I drove past you
on sunset and she was like, just follow her, just
follow her, and here we are. Was I pregnant? I
don't know? My card. I was like, I think you
would be like so creepy if I like followed you
(32:59):
home or whatever. I'm like, okay, this will will not
do that. And look where we are, and look where
we are. So I say that to say for anyone
you know out there who's you know, inspired by any
of us, you just really never know, you know, how
life turns out. And you really did pave the way
for like, we don't just have to be a stylist,
(33:20):
you know, like we can do other things. And I
think that was kind of hard for me at first
to realize, like you know what it was. It was
when people started introducing me as this is Haley's stylist. Right,
this is Janelle's stylist, right, this is yeah. It's like wait, wait,
hold on a second, Ye, my name is may Riley. Yeah. Yeah.
(33:43):
And that, by the way, is hard for me even
to say out loud, because it's about stepping into like
who I am. It's not about like what about who
I am? You know, like what about that? By the way,
that was your identity and that was my identity. Yeah,
And to say that, I don't adore being there stylist.
(34:03):
I love working for that, you know, like it is
the it is what gets me up in the morning
and inspires me. It definitely makes me who I am
in some in some way. Sure, But what about just like, hey,
this is me Riley, she's a great stylist. I don't know.
By the way, it's so true. And actually on that note,
(34:24):
I will I will finish by saying it kind of
shows how peaceful you are within yourself, because for me,
the biggest struggle was in those moments where we would
go to something or I would be like pulling the
train on the carpet and you know, a pop or
somebody would go, oh, Rachel, Zoe, let's can we talk
(34:44):
to you? Can we get a picture, and I'd be
like no, and I would literally like run and I
would be like, I'm her stylist, and I would literally
leave and like jump in the car and go and
like drive away because the horror of what would happen,
the horror of like how that felt. And so I
do think in that sense you're forging that path of
(35:04):
people really getting to be who they are, and that
being someone's stylist or hairstyles or makeup artists. It's just
a part of who they are. It's just a part
of it there. Yeah, yeah, And I love it, you know,
I never want to stop doing it. Also, can I
do these other things as well? And it has no
reflection on you or you know anything? And what can
(35:25):
I ask you a question like when did it switch
for you? Like when were you like, you know what,
I'm comfortable, just like I'm going to stand on this
vanity fair red carpet and be Rachel though never I
still if you know, no, I'm going to tell you
the truth. If you look at pictures of me, I'll
send you a picture of me and Carolina Kurkova the
year I styled her for the met Ball and it
was the most exciting moment in my career because it
(35:47):
was my first time as an actual designer dressing a
friend slash supermodel in something that I designed from the
very first sketch, right. And I remember going on to
that carpet and if you look at the pictures of me,
I look like you're taking me to my grave. I
am like horrified, I'm nervous. I'm hurling her in front.
(36:11):
They're screaming my name. I'm literally like my whole I'm
like sweating down my back, Like to go back to
your point, how you go. I'm this girl who was bullied.
I'm like that girl that was like a like a
insecure little girl like I was always comfortable on the
other side, which is why I became a stylist. But
I think what ultimately happened is when I took a
(36:33):
break from styling and realized that it was in fact
my name on the door, and we had a hundred employees,
and we had built this Zoe Report, and I had
my show, and I had all these deals and I
had all these things. It was sort of like, Okay,
hold on a second, it's my name on that I'm
leading this company. I'm the one that has to show up.
I'm the one that's getting paid to do this job
(36:57):
or this talk. If I don't show up, we don't
get paid. And so I think it became this moment
for me where it became part of the job. It
was sort of like the strength of my name and
the strength of my brand was all I really had,
right Like, if I didn't keep it strong and I
didn't keep out there, it disappeared there wasn't anyone I
(37:19):
could send in in place of me. So I think
that was really it. And I think that I'm still
always going to be the girl that's not comfortable on
a red carpet. I just still am that girl. I
get so like Roger laughs at me still because I'm
literally like this, I look scared. I'm not that girl
that's like like I look at certain people on the carpet,
(37:39):
I'm like, God, I really need to get better of
the ship, but like I don't. I'm just so comfortable.
By the way, then you're exactly where you're supposed to be.
I'm so comfortable in both, you know what I mean.
Like I am so comfortable being in my sweatpants, fixing
the train, minding my damn business, and I'm also so
comfortable in full gland in address, like I don't know,
(38:01):
it's amazing. Honestly, that's amazing because that means you're actually
supposed to be doing exactly what you're doing. And I
think for me, I think because coming up as a
stylist for so many years, it was being on the
other side, and I think that's just where my psychological
I think it's just my mindset right, and so I'm
grateful and I'm grateful for all the opportunities. I just
(38:24):
think that like instinctually, I'm more comfortable on the other side,
you are crushing it and it just shows you by
the way, like full circle, like what's meant to be.
I love to tell people because you just never know
you know what I mean, and when you're like young
and trying to figure it out, I think it's like
an inspiring story to hear, you know, and hundred That's
(38:45):
why I love telling people because I just never would
have thought, you know, that little kid that drove past
you on sunset, would I wish you followed me because
that would be even more first full circle and funny,
by the way, I know, I'm so happy for you
have a beautiful day. It's that time in the show
(39:08):
when I answer too listener questions. So let's see what
we have today. Okay, so after COVID, I literally hate
wearing Denham. I'll put on a pair of jeans and
then take them off immediately. What should I wear instead
of jeans or what brands do you think are comfortable? Okay,
So that's a really funny question because I'm not someone
(39:29):
that wears a ton of denim, but I just recently
got two full denim looks that I've been living in,
and I think that if you treat your denim not
as denim, and you actually like get some polished denam,
meaning not torn up, not beat up, not like super baggy,
but you have like a nice pair of like denim
(39:50):
trousers in like a dark, clean wash, and then you
treat them more like a pair of trousers rather than
like I'm throwing on jeans with my sneakers. I love
ones from Frame most recently, I love my ones from
a favorite daughter. I actually love like dark Dunam. On
Dark Dunham, I'm just like so into it. It has
like a total seventies vibe. But I think instead of
(40:13):
jeans I would say my go to in my daily
uniform is a pair of black like sort of flared
tuxpants because I think they can always redressier than they
actually feel. I think you always look expensive. I think
thrown a little pair of heels and a sweater and
you just like look appropriate, you know, wherever you go.
(40:37):
So yeah, that would be my favorite alternative. And obviously
comfort is key to make sure you choose a material
that's like feels good wearing for hours on end. What
choos do you wear when you exercise if you don't
own sneakers? So this is really funny. I don't exercise often,
if at all, but when I do, it's more like
(40:59):
a yoga a type workout or some kind of like
Matt on the floor workout. So I'm always barefoot. I'm
really like not in a shoe when I'm on a treadmill,
which I haven't been on since COVID, since the pandemic.
I think I put on a pair of sinkers that
someone sent to me that I just found in my closet.
But since then I did get like a great pair
(41:20):
of Nikes that I keep as like a slip on
to go like walking with my kids and the dog
and stuff like that, because it started to really be
an issue walking up the hills in LA with like
my slides. I was wearing like my Gucci slides to
do like long walks in which I don't recommend honestly. Okay,
don't forget to submit your questions for next week's episode.
(41:43):
All you have to do is DMUs your questions to
at Climbing in Heels pod on Instagram and I just
might answer your question. May have is She's one of
the kindest people I know. I haven't known her very long,
but I imediately loved her because she's kind of this
seemingly really tough girl that you know clearly has been
(42:06):
through it. She's very candid about being sober almost nineteen
years I think now, which is truly incredible because she's
so young, and you know, I always love talking to
women that are so candid about their journey and give
the raw, real goods and bads of the process, because
I think it's unrealistic to only share at the highlights,
(42:29):
because I think anyone successful has not only had highlights.
So thank you so much for listening to Climbing in Heels.
This was one of my favorite episodes, and please don't
forget to write a review wherever you get your podcasts.
It really helps us out and I love reading them
while you're at it. Follow me on at Rachel Zoe
and at Climbing in Heels Pod on Instagram for more
(42:53):
updates on upcoming guests, episodes, and all things Kreatur. Stay
stylish and I'll talk to you next week. My um
Welcome back to Currently with Kiatore, where I share my
latest style of obsessions, all of which you can access
through my shopping community Katour. As a Climbing and Heels listener,
you're getting the earliest scoop. We're having a Winter warehouse
sale and get really excited about it. Beginning tomorrow, January twentieth,
you can take an additional thirty percent off a selection
(00:23):
of my favorites, from chic accessories to skincare heroes and beyond.
You have through January thirty first to shop the sale,
and all you have to do is use code Winter
thirty at checkout to get the epic savings. So mark
your calendars and check out the sales starting tomorrow at
kiatore dot com. That's Cure at eu R dot com.
(00:55):
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Heels. This show is all about celebrating the most
extraordinary superwomen who will be sharing their incredible journeys to
the top, all while staying glamorous. Today with me, we
have one of the greatest stylists of our generation, Fashion powerhouse,
(01:15):
mave Rightly. She styles some of the biggest celebrities we
know and love, and I'm so excited to speak with
me about what influenced her sense of style, how she
dealt with countless bullies and mean girls, how her styling
career kicked off, and what she looks forward to working
on in the future. Hi cutie. Okay, so people obviously
(01:40):
know you, if our listeners who don't Meeve is one
of the greatest stylists of our time, our generation current.
I you know, watched you come out into the world,
and from the outside you seem like this like tough
as bitch stylist, right, but you're not. You're actually this
like mushy, sweet person. But I think it's really important
(02:03):
to really go back a little bit to sort of
like who the hell were you before? Like, meaning, did
you always want to be a stylist? I'm like, there
was no freaking such thing. I didn't even know when
I became a stylist that there was a stylist. But
you're much younger, and I think coming up in a
different generation. I think now there are like textbooks on styling,
(02:23):
there's school for styling, there's courses, there's mentorships, there's all
kinds of things. So I think for me and our listeners,
I think it would be important to sort of understand
a little bit, you know, like who you were and
what you were thinking about, and what kind of like
kid teenager were you and did you even go to school? Well,
(02:43):
thank you for saying all of those very nice things
about me, for anyone who doesn't know. You were my
like idol. You know, when I was a kid before
there was social media, because when I started, there wasn't
still maybe like space, you know, but obviously our business
wasn't there, and the only person that existed in this
(03:07):
space was you and this and your show. So to
answer your question, I definitely always knew fashion with my thing.
I didn't know because of social media that this career existed,
that this was an option. It was like when I
went to school, it was like a fashion design or
be a buyer. You know. It was definitely like very
(03:27):
There was not a lot in between. And I couldn't draw,
I couldn't sew, and I wanted to, but I just I, yeah,
I don't have the ability to do it. I was
a super angsty teen I was bullied. You know. I've
talked about this at nauseum from third grade until basically
my senior year in high school, where I was sent
(03:49):
away to rehab. I've been sober for eighteen years. Next
month will be eighteen years. Good for you. And you
grew up in New York City, correct, Yeah? Yeah, and
I had no outlet for that bullying. You know, I'm
not going to say that I became like an addict
because of you know, a lot of people believe it's
like you're born with it or whatever. But because I
(04:11):
was ostracized so much and I had so much. I'm
also very empathic and I'm very sensitive. So when I
think of what that must have been like for a
little kid who didn't know how to describe, like, oh,
I'm taking on these feelings from other people or uncomfortable
and I don't know why, you know, I think it
was just really heavy for me as a kid. And
(04:33):
then you add the bullying, never feeling safe. I mean, karma,
I guess is the only answer. Like it was just
whatever for whatever reason. It's like what I was supposed
to learn on this plane on Earth, you know, I
don't know, you know, And it was constant, it was
it never ended. I think because of that, I obviously
got really tough. I obviously at some point learned to
(04:56):
fight back, and so it took me a really long
time to shake that. And so you add in like
I end up in this industry, and then you add
in being like a young woman without an agent, without
anyone looking out for you, and we have one thing.
Did you go to college? Yeah? I did? I want
(05:16):
to fight. That's an important step because we talk a
lot about education and how it doesn't define you and
that every woman I've had on this podcast has had
a totally different background and some like left dropped out
in high school, some junior high school, someone all the
way someone to ivy Lea, Like it's just really interesting.
I hated it rightfully, and like I had a very
(05:38):
conservative sort of family that just felt like that is
what you do in life if you go to college,
and it's sort of a non negotiable. I wish they
could have seen a little bit more of who I,
my actual essence of who I was, that that wasn't
really the right path for me. I started styling when
I was going into my freshman year of college. So
(05:59):
I was in school, I was interning on its TV
show in New York, and I was working in retail
whole time. You know. For me, I got a liberal
arts degree at George Washington, which I loved and learned
from and Psychnator and the whole thing. But like, given
the opportunity, I would have chosen a fashion school for sure,
had I really thought about it. You know, they had
(06:20):
high school classes that I actually took too. So on
Saturdays you could take two three hour courses and then
on in the summer it was like a three week course,
four days a week, and I did that somehow. Wow,
I just knew that it was where I was supposed
to be. I just didn't. Again, there weren't the like
resources to become a silent at the time, and no
(06:41):
one was talking about it and no one knew about it.
So when I walked onto this set when I was seventeen,
and I was like, wait a minute, this is real,
Like you can this is a job, you know, Like
I had a never been on a TV show or
red set or anything, and this stylist, I'll never forget it.
(07:01):
Her name is Laura Souland. She's still working in New York,
and she she was like commercial whatever, different world, and
she was like, okay, runs the burg Dwarfs. Here's my Ambax.
Hands me her plum card, remember the plong cards that
were okays, her Blong card, and she's like, go to
Burgdwarfs and get every pair of beige pants you can
find in a size six. And I was like okay,
(07:24):
and she's like, saved the receipt. Then take a taxi
and I'm like okay, you know, like first day, and
I did, and I was like I can't leave that.
This is a job, Like what And then it gets
to come back to a set and like sit here
and like hang out and like see all this thing.
You know, you're like what the hell? So that was
like my first intro and as soon as I saw it,
(07:45):
I was like this is this? Is it for me?
And then I think that would have been oh six,
And then you popped up right after, you know, and
I think when I first started, the only person that
people were really talking about was Pat Fields. It's like
breaking legend, I don't know. And then you came along
and I was like la what Yeah, Like what the hell? Wait?
(08:07):
That's so funny because like for me, you know, I
did a freelance job and I had a very similar
reaction because I was styling on my own at the magazine,
making like five dollars a guy like whatever it was.
And I worked for this freelance stylist who was at
the magazine and she was like, here's was literally like
(08:30):
ten thousand dollars. Go get twenty suits and ten pairs
of denim and what save every receipt. You're gonna have
to glue it onto a piece of paper and like hope.
And it's funny because I had a very similar like response,
which was like is this for real? Because and in hindsight,
(08:52):
I'm like, oh my god, it was like in hurricanes, blizzards,
like going up you know, seven floor walk ups to
these like awful studios spaces that weren't even studios. They
were disgusting, And like, in hindsight, it really helped, I think,
shape who you become because you know, as you know,
it's not glamorous most of the time. And but no,
(09:16):
and I think I think the only glamorous moments are
the ones that people see where like your client may
like advocate for you and you know, do a photoshoot
with you on your behalf right, and that is like
a moment and you're like, what just happened, but I
didn't really have those moments. But I think, I think
(09:36):
to your point. You know, first of all, it's so
interesting because I find that creative people very often are
misunderstood and they don't know how to really express it.
And I think now we're living in a time, thankfully,
where there are so many opportunities for creative people not
only to express themselves but also to be who they are.
(09:56):
And I think that in your time that is probably
just beginning. In my time did not exist at all.
You know. The thing I saw in you immediately was
how much you loved it and how grateful you were
to be doing it, and that it clearly was not
handed to you. And you know, very similar to you,
(10:20):
I was mean girled most of my life and had
to kind of figure out how to get to where
I wanted to be somehow by being kind and just
working my ass off, right, And how hard is it
to be in a business that is full of mean girl? Yes,
it's true. I mean, let's be true, you know, and
I say all the time. And also you know the
(10:42):
part of it too that's very hard for me now
and I have to work through, you know, the clients
for instance, it can trigger that like young kid trauma
of like oh that client moved on. And it's hard
not to take it personally because the first time you
called me, yeah, it's very traumatizing, you know, it's very
It's I say to my therapist all the time, like,
(11:02):
it's crazy to me that I have now manifested a
future as an adult that's basically replaying out my childhood,
but now as an adult with a million people watching. Yes,
I want to talk about that because the mean girl
thing is very important to discuss, and the reason being,
And I asked this actually of all the women I
(11:23):
have on the podcast, like, hey, have you had haters,
have you had challenges? How did you deal with it? Whatever?
And a lot of them really didn't. And there was
one woman that I had for them, but right, and
I said, wow, what's that like? And I would look
at Mary, who's always like with me, and I'm like,
why did I get so destroyed by women? What is that?
And so I obviously never manifested it. I never would ever,
(11:46):
but I will say this, I think it forced me
to drive my own path and not expect anything from people.
And I think that if you manage that expectation early,
you're so pleasantly surprised when you get supported by amazing women.
But I think to your point as a stylist, and
I remember when I became a stylist, my sister has
(12:07):
said to me, God, you picked a really ironic business
for someone that has had such problems with women's support.
But I will say, that's why in this time where
everyone's championing women. And I agree that women can do anything,
and I agree that women are invincible on some level
(12:31):
and that we can handle two thousand things at once,
I think that not enough credit goes to those men
that sit next to us, that support us. I think
that for you, styling has been this sort of amazing
creative outlet for you where you can live your best life.
But I think that you still continue to get hurt
(12:51):
when you get let down by people, which is the same.
And I remember you calling me about a client and
how you deal with this and all the stuff. And
I remember losing my first client and it had a
happy ending because she came back. But I literally, I think,
didn't leave my house for like two weeks because I
was horrified. I thought I was literally never going to
(13:12):
work again. I cried. My agent was like happens all
the time, Like, yeah, they're not loyal. They're loyal to
hair and makeup, but they're not loyal to stylist because anyone.
They think anybody can dress them, but when it comes
to their faces. Yeah, I was like, okay, okay, okay,
but but I think just watching you forge your path,
(13:33):
I'm really watching you living the dream that you manifested.
Because also, if I might add, and we can go
back to this, I think you were very clear when
I met you, which is why I just remember going, god,
I love her. You. You were like, hold on, I
want to live the fairytale, like I'm working this hard
(13:55):
because I want that life. I want to be in love,
I want to be loved, I want to be a mom,
like all these things. And I just remember going, okay,
So I fully wasn't expecting that from I really wasn't.
I don't know why, but like I just wasn't. And
I think, you know, was there anyone in your life,
(14:17):
professionally or personally that really was that person that like
either you looked up to and didn't know or did know,
or a person that you did know really well that
said you are so talented, you have gifts, you're really special,
like or you just kind of went at it yourself
and said, I hope I survived this this insanity I think.
I think in the beginning, there wasn't a lot of
(14:40):
support the stylist that I had worked for, you know,
just it wasn't on their radar. I know I went
through a lot to get here, and I also know
how I want to support my assistance as they move on,
like I'm a big cheerleader for all of that. You know.
My last four assistance gone on to do big shit,
(15:01):
you know, and I'm so proud of them. And the
one I have now, who I'm praying never actually leaves
one does. When she does, I will be her biggest cheerleader.
It's really important to me because I feel like I
didn't really have that. It's also just a different time,
and I think that's really good. I think the industry
has changed in hundreds of ways, hundreds of ways. But
(15:23):
I do want to go back to the assistant thing
for a second, because I think that's really important to
talk about in this journey of climbing in heels, Because
you know, you and I have talked about I was
an assistant for a long time. I mean I and
I just don't even feel like people do that like anymore,
you know, as long as I did. I mean I
was between interning and assisting like nine years. That's insane,
(15:47):
like a long time. And I switched cities, so you know,
I did it in New York. I was in school,
I was working retail, so it's not like I was
in it like full time. The economy crash in two
thousand and eight, and I was somehow able to like
live off unemployment and take like random styling jobs that
I would find on literally craigslists. Okay, because again no
social media. Wow, I'm like Craigslist, Like wow. You know.
(16:12):
I landed an assisting job with Robin Maryelle when they
were styling Rihanna, sweet people, yeah, the best, and learned
so much. But then I moved to LA and so
then it was like that was eleven years ago. So
now it's sort of like, Okay, now, who were all
these people and how do I and where do I
fit in sure? And then finding my way, So you know,
(16:32):
it was a long road for me. And I see
these kids today and I don't know if it's like
a generational thing. But I just I think they think
they can do this for like a year and like
learn what they need to learn and then go out
on their own, and maybe that works. Sometimes I don't
believe in that way, but I think, I mean, God
bless whatever someone's journey is. But it took me a
(16:53):
long time to get here, you know. Well, going back
to what you said earlier, I did a job where
I ended up working with Pat Fields that was like
literally like my assisting and I just remember, like I
was terrified of her and she was brilliant but like
a legend, and I was like, what if I say
(17:14):
the wrong thing, what if I do the wrong thing?
What if I Yeah, you know, I think we don't
realize the power of social media and the access that
that provides for people. And it's very impressive that you
assisted for that long. Actually, I want to go back
to you being an advocate for your assistance because I
think that's an important thing to note. Because I have
a thing that I always say is that everyone's going
(17:36):
to leave someday, right, and maybe they won't. I mean,
I know people that have worked in the same place
for twenty years, twenty five years and hopefully they don't.
I mean, I people that have worked with me eleven years,
ten years, twelve years like great. But the thing is
people need to move right And it's not that you leave.
It's never that you leave, it's how you leave. And
I think that's the most important thing that people could
(17:58):
ever learn in any industry. No one expects you to
work for them forever, right, and if you do, that's delusional.
But I think at the end of the day, when
someone's really talented and they need to make a change,
you have to support that. But it's how you do it.
And I've had people that have left me come back.
They still work with us freelance, they still consult with us,
(18:18):
they're still part of our family forever. And then of
course they have a handful of people that left in
the absolute wrong way and I want them nowhere near
my life. There's a lot to learn from that, and
I think in people's work journeys, I think that's really important.
I think the fact that you advocate for your assistance
and they go on to have these incredible careers is
such an amazing takeaway for people because I think that's
(18:39):
a huge challenge in any industry. Well, I just think
it's like they're at the end of the day. It
only it's like if my assistant leave. By the way,
my assistant from a million years ago, let me just
name them. Off is Kim Kardashian Silas Oh, I met her,
she's great. I met her a long time ago. Yes, Okay.
Then there is Morgan, who's now my best friend, who
(19:02):
styles Becky ge and like a bunch of other girls
of it. Then there's Alex who's now styling Kylie Jenner
and Travis Scott. I mean, it's like it goes Also,
I have a weird Kardashian karma. They all leave me
for Kardashians. I don't know why, and my girls are
good girls, and I just think it's like it only
reflects on me, like they learned everything they needed to learn.
They have great taste that probably you know, came from themselves,
(19:23):
but also for me and watching what I did for
so long, and then they're going on to do their
own thing. And I just really am a big believer
and there's enough work for everyone. I also believe that
every client ends up with who they're supposed to end
up with. Like if someone leaves me and it's a
better fit somewhere else. I'm like, God, bless you know. Also,
(19:44):
I've done fittings with people, and I'm sure you've had
the same experience where one job and I'm like, that
was not for me. I don't need that person ever again, Yep,
that energy was not It wasn't a good fit. And like,
the longer you do this, I think and more, are
you realized that so much about your Yeah, it's so
much about your like energy exchange with someone in the
(20:06):
same way that, like you said earlier, like one hundred
different stylists can put a dress on you, but it's
the vibe, it's the magic one hundred percent. I agree,
But I would say that you know, something we also
talk about on climbing and hills is sort of the
confidence through experience, right, because so when I think of
(20:27):
my twenty something self styling, I would never turn down
a job. I would be verbally abused by whomever, work
for thirty six hours straight and I'll ask for overtime
or water or watery yeah, yeah, water or air. But
I do think through the experience, you know what to
(20:47):
walk away from, and you know what doesn't feel right,
and you have that you have that confidence in yourself
to be like, oh no, no no, I'm not working with
this worse than anymore, and you know you're going to
work again. Oh yeah, I have like a nice person
only rule now. You know. It's like I was tortured
enough in my first ten years, not only assisting but
doing my own thing by certain clients, and I just
(21:09):
won't do it anymore. You're taking me away from my peace,
from my life, you know, from my Beyonce, from my
future children, from taking a trip. I am not going
to sacrifice my peace on behalf of an unhappy client.
He's obviously unhappy with themselves and it has nothing to
(21:30):
do with me. So I'm just I'm just not gonna
do it anymore. Now. I did do it, and as
I said, I said no to nothing ever, nothing, you know,
I did every job that ever, you know, like just
sure because you thought you'd never worried again, and listen.
I think that's advice I would give anyone. Though. It's
like when you are starting, like do everything, do every
(21:51):
kind of job to do, you know, like just get
your get your toe in the water and figure out
what feels good and what you like to do and
what you don't like to do. I thought I was
going to be on men'swear stylist, and you know, truthfully,
like I started that, Yeah, yeah, so did I and
I got you know, Janelle Money came into my life
(22:13):
because at the time she was still in suits and
ties and ties and showing zero skin and hired me
because I knew how to addressed men, and she changed
the trajectory of my entire career. But I think also
part of that not just got boring. I actually think
I was just too scared to believe that I could
(22:33):
compete in this arena with other women's stylists. It was
I was looking up to the you know, to the
generation above me, and thinking there's just no way that
I'm going to fit in there, you know, and breaking
into the like publicist game, it's never been my thing.
It's just for whatever reason, they don't call me. Every
client I've ever gotten has been on my own, like
(22:55):
you said, have and like you have had to sort
of forge my own way. You know. All of these big,
big clients I've changed my life have come to me
directly to me, It's like make the B or C
list or the no name girl look amazing. With limited resources,
and that's a good styling. One thing I think is
really important and it's something that I definitely had to
(23:16):
deal with in my career, very unplanned and unexpectedly. It
made me incredibly uncomfortable. Do you feel that when you
became more well known you lost clients? Yeah? Yeah, And
so I think it's interesting because I think it goes
back to a little bit of like when your team
(23:38):
moves on, or like you felt supported to a point,
and then it's a little bit like that because it's
sort of like your clients love you while you're the stylist,
and then if the camera turns a new whether you
ask for it to or not, some will stay because
(23:59):
they don't care and they're confident in themselves and that
doesn't affect them. And some will be like, Nope, time
to change and what and how do you feel about
that in terms of and I ask you this just
more on like, because I feel like you're at a
point in your life where being happy is the number
one most important thing for you, being at peace and
(24:19):
being happy, right, And so I think clearly there are
a ton of clients that are like godspeed, maybe's crushing it.
Her brand's crushing it. She's she's so successful within her
own brand, but she still loves me and looks after
me first, right, Yeah, I mean the thing that's tricky
(24:40):
and no one knows is better than you, Like you're
you went in a different direction, right, like you are,
Like I need a break, Like I'm burnt out, and
I see other opportunities maybe that are worth my time
in a different way. I mean, I don't. I got hurt.
I got hurt too much by people that we're working
with me. How about that I got? I got and
(25:00):
then yes that I was like, I can't do this again.
I need a minute. I learned through the process that
at the end of the day, the only thing I
can rely on is myself. Yes, And so if doing
my brand partnerships are something I can rely on, then
that's something that I need to do. Yeah. If starting
my own brand is something I can rely on within myself,
(25:21):
then that's what I need to do. I we all
know that clients come and go, you know, and some
moments are easier and summer harder, And that's like sort
of an internal journey, right, And I think I think
people's trauma plays a part in that, Like how something
might affect me in that way, like for me, right,
like might be so traumatizing and so painful. But then
(25:45):
for the next person and they're like, this is just
what happens. What are you talking about? Right? No, it's true,
you know, and it's your own own past experience of
how that affects you. Now For me, like as we've
talked about, it's harder for me, I take things harder.
I'm sensitive, I'm empathic, I'm like I you know. And
(26:05):
as much as I of course support whatever their next
chapter is with whoever that is, because I do, it
doesn't change the fact that it's it's triggering to like
that little girl and me that's like why are you leaving? Sure?
You know? Sure, So it's complicated and thank god for
good therapists. Yeah, and by the way, yeah, but but
(26:26):
I have to say, like, I think you're doing it
all right, and I think you and I think you're
going at it exactly as you should. You're in great
hands with Kent because he loves you. You guys are
like family. You know. We've talked so much about challenges
and the journey to get here, which was not easy,
and I think what I want to know is sort
(26:47):
of like what is the dream for next? You know,
like what do you like? Because I do think that
you manifest things. I think you're a huge manifest or
I'm not, and I think I have to start manifested.
Really yeah, well, my team calls me a witch. I
sort of see things before they happen. Well, so I have,
but I don't address it. That's a thing like I
(27:07):
don't go, Okay, this is what's going to happen, this
is what I want to happen, because then I feel
like I'm I'm going to trip over it. Right, So
I think for you, like from where I sit, the
dream's happening right for you. But I think I want
to know because I'm sure it's pretty clear for you,
like what is the dream professionally? Personally I think it's
already happening. But it's so funny because professionally I feel
(27:29):
like I haven't even like touched what I want to do.
You haven't. When I say that, there has been challenges
of like publicists don't want to use me or whatever,
Like I just feel like I've so much in me.
I have so much ability to do what I did
with Hailey, what I did with Janelle what, you know,
like I help these women express themselves grow, you know,
(27:52):
and I want to continue to do that. So it's different.
It's like doing the things that really like light my
soul on fire, you know. I want to just I
want to go back to one thing that you had
sort of touched on earlier. And that's like with my childhood,
with being bullied, with never feeling safe, with having to
become really tough to protect myself because every day I
was trying to just survive. You bring that into your
(28:14):
adult life and you have this like wall, right, I
had a wall that was like don't fucking touch me,
you know, like stay away for me. I don't trust anybody.
Then you add this business. You're just this young, pretty
little girl that's like trying to get jobs and trying
to get budgets and doing music videos for four dollars,
and there's no way to advocate for yourself other than
(28:38):
to be tough, you know, and be like no, I
won't do that job for you know, thirty six hours,
and then you get called difficult. I had sort of
like everything working against me in a way of like
really that little sweet part of myself that was always
there just was never really felt safe to come out,
you know, exactly correct. I think that coming up in
(28:59):
a career, I think I've met women that don't give
one shit what people say or think about them. I
always want a shit, So I'm not that person. I'm
not either. I don't think I'll ever be that person.
And I think that's why I'm somewhat insular, because I
do have a wallup. I think there is finding when
you are a woman who is striving for success and
(29:21):
ultimately achieving success, I think you just I think the
biggest learning along the way is to not become a hater,
not become a cynic, because that's detrimental to yourself. Then
they won. But I do think it is imperative to
keep a little bit of a wall up, a safe wall,
(29:41):
and keeping ten eyes open as to who people really
are and what because I'm so sadly a pro at
that now. I see the red flags, I see the science,
and I know ultimately how something will end before it
ends now, But it took me my whole career. Yeah,
(30:02):
Like still I feel like just in that moment now
of like and you know, mentioning my fiance, it's like
you know, starting a new chapter of my life, the
one that I've wanted for so long, you know, and
I think realizing what really matters, and that is my family,
that is my guy, that is our future children, you know,
(30:24):
and and keeping it smaller than it was, you know,
because that's what matters, and that's where my energy needs
to be. And like it's just what it is, and
scratching the surface of what is to come, and I think,
there can't wait. It's the best thing I was. I
was like cleaning out closets and drawers, like into the
(30:46):
new year on the break, and I found a list
I had written. I'd always believed in writing like a
relationship ideals list or even you could do it for
a client, you use it for anything, rightly. But I
had written out everything I wanted in a partner. And
I found the pieces of paper. It was two pieces
of paper. I read it and I'm looking at Zach
and he literally is every single thing. There's not one
(31:09):
thing missing. And I truly like I slept. It was
in my nightstand, you know, it was like next to
me for however long I had been there, and here's
this guy, you know, who's got all the things I've
ever wanted, and I feel like it took me in
a really long time to find him, but that was
my doesn't matter, It doesn't matter. I always say later
is better. The ones that start really early typically forever,
(31:31):
not forever. If I could tell my younger self something,
that's exactly what I would say, because now that I
have it, I'm like, well, thank God for all the
fun that I had and all the like, you know, like,
because now this is just what it is. But it
always works out, you know, it always works out. I'm
so happy for you, and you know, if it means anything,
I noticed you. I adore you. I think you're so talented.
(31:54):
I think you have your own thing, and I think
that you're just starting to make your mark on the world.
The most importantly that you have clearly achieved, you know,
inner peace and happiness, because ultimately everything else follows after that.
If you don't have that, nothing really can work. I
totally agree with you. Yeah, no, thank you. I mean,
(32:15):
you know, you paved the road for so many not
only stylist but businesswomen, and I'm just so grateful that
we get to know each other that I get. I mean,
I don't know if I did I ever tell you
the story? But my friend we drove past you, like
eleven years ago. My friend was like, follow her and
give her your resume? Did I ever tell you the story?
(32:36):
I came to La. It was probably like the height
of your show. I don't even think I was living
here yet. Oh my god, and you were like my
you know, and my friend and I drove past you
on sunset and she was like, just follow her, just
follow her, and here we are. Was I pregnant? I
don't know? My card. I was like, I think you
would be like so creepy if I like followed you
(32:59):
home or whatever. I'm like, okay, this will will not
do that. And look where we are, and look where
we are. So I say that to say for anyone
you know out there who's you know, inspired by any
of us, you just really never know, you know, how
life turns out. And you really did pave the way
for like, we don't just have to be a stylist,
(33:20):
you know, like we can do other things. And I
think that was kind of hard for me at first
to realize, like you know what it was. It was
when people started introducing me as this is Haley's stylist. Right,
this is Janelle's stylist, right, this is yeah. It's like wait, wait,
hold on a second, Ye, my name is may Riley. Yeah. Yeah.
(33:43):
And that, by the way, is hard for me even
to say out loud, because it's about stepping into like
who I am. It's not about like what about who
I am? You know, like what about that? By the way,
that was your identity and that was my identity. Yeah,
And to say that, I don't adore being there stylist.
(34:03):
I love working for that, you know, like it is
the it is what gets me up in the morning
and inspires me. It definitely makes me who I am
in some in some way. Sure, But what about just like, hey,
this is me Riley, she's a great stylist. I don't know.
By the way, it's so true. And actually on that note,
(34:24):
I will I will finish by saying it kind of
shows how peaceful you are within yourself, because for me,
the biggest struggle was in those moments where we would
go to something or I would be like pulling the
train on the carpet and you know, a pop or
somebody would go, oh, Rachel, Zoe, let's can we talk
(34:44):
to you? Can we get a picture, and I'd be
like no, and I would literally like run and I
would be like, I'm her stylist, and I would literally
leave and like jump in the car and go and
like drive away because the horror of what would happen,
the horror of like how that felt. And so I
do think in that sense you're forging that path of
(35:04):
people really getting to be who they are, and that
being someone's stylist or hairstyles or makeup artists. It's just
a part of who they are. It's just a part
of it there. Yeah, yeah, And I love it, you know,
I never want to stop doing it. Also, can I
do these other things as well? And it has no
reflection on you or you know anything? And what can
(35:25):
I ask you a question like when did it switch
for you? Like when were you like, you know what,
I'm comfortable, just like I'm going to stand on this
vanity fair red carpet and be Rachel though never I
still if you know, no, I'm going to tell you
the truth. If you look at pictures of me, I'll
send you a picture of me and Carolina Kurkova the
year I styled her for the met Ball and it
was the most exciting moment in my career because it
(35:47):
was my first time as an actual designer dressing a
friend slash supermodel in something that I designed from the
very first sketch, right. And I remember going on to
that carpet and if you look at the pictures of me,
I look like you're taking me to my grave. I
am like horrified, I'm nervous. I'm hurling her in front.
(36:11):
They're screaming my name. I'm literally like my whole I'm
like sweating down my back, Like to go back to
your point, how you go. I'm this girl who was bullied.
I'm like that girl that was like a like a
insecure little girl like I was always comfortable on the
other side, which is why I became a stylist. But
I think what ultimately happened is when I took a
(36:33):
break from styling and realized that it was in fact
my name on the door, and we had a hundred employees,
and we had built this Zoe Report, and I had
my show, and I had all these deals and I
had all these things. It was sort of like, Okay,
hold on a second, it's my name on that I'm
leading this company. I'm the one that has to show up.
I'm the one that's getting paid to do this job
(36:57):
or this talk. If I don't show up, we don't
get paid. And so I think it became this moment
for me where it became part of the job. It
was sort of like the strength of my name and
the strength of my brand was all I really had,
right Like, if I didn't keep it strong and I
didn't keep out there, it disappeared there wasn't anyone I
(37:19):
could send in in place of me. So I think
that was really it. And I think that I'm still
always going to be the girl that's not comfortable on
a red carpet. I just still am that girl. I
get so like Roger laughs at me still because I'm
literally like this, I look scared. I'm not that girl
that's like like I look at certain people on the carpet,
(37:39):
I'm like, God, I really need to get better of
the ship, but like I don't. I'm just so comfortable.
By the way, then you're exactly where you're supposed to be.
I'm so comfortable in both, you know what I mean.
Like I am so comfortable being in my sweatpants, fixing
the train, minding my damn business, and I'm also so
comfortable in full gland in address, like I don't know,
(38:01):
it's amazing. Honestly, that's amazing because that means you're actually
supposed to be doing exactly what you're doing. And I
think for me, I think because coming up as a
stylist for so many years, it was being on the
other side, and I think that's just where my psychological
I think it's just my mindset right, and so I'm
grateful and I'm grateful for all the opportunities. I just
(38:24):
think that like instinctually, I'm more comfortable on the other side,
you are crushing it and it just shows you by
the way, like full circle, like what's meant to be.
I love to tell people because you just never know
you know what I mean, and when you're like young
and trying to figure it out, I think it's like
an inspiring story to hear, you know, and hundred That's
(38:45):
why I love telling people because I just never would
have thought, you know, that little kid that drove past
you on sunset, would I wish you followed me because
that would be even more first full circle and funny,
by the way, I know, I'm so happy for you
have a beautiful day. It's that time in the show
(39:08):
when I answer too listener questions. So let's see what
we have today. Okay, so after COVID, I literally hate
wearing Denham. I'll put on a pair of jeans and
then take them off immediately. What should I wear instead
of jeans or what brands do you think are comfortable? Okay,
So that's a really funny question because I'm not someone
(39:29):
that wears a ton of denim, but I just recently
got two full denim looks that I've been living in,
and I think that if you treat your denim not
as denim, and you actually like get some polished denam,
meaning not torn up, not beat up, not like super baggy,
but you have like a nice pair of like denim
(39:50):
trousers in like a dark, clean wash, and then you
treat them more like a pair of trousers rather than
like I'm throwing on jeans with my sneakers. I love
ones from Frame most recently, I love my ones from
a favorite daughter. I actually love like dark Dunam. On
Dark Dunham, I'm just like so into it. It has
like a total seventies vibe. But I think instead of
(40:13):
jeans I would say my go to in my daily
uniform is a pair of black like sort of flared
tuxpants because I think they can always redressier than they
actually feel. I think you always look expensive. I think
thrown a little pair of heels and a sweater and
you just like look appropriate, you know, wherever you go.
(40:37):
So yeah, that would be my favorite alternative. And obviously
comfort is key to make sure you choose a material
that's like feels good wearing for hours on end. What
choos do you wear when you exercise if you don't
own sneakers? So this is really funny. I don't exercise often,
if at all, but when I do, it's more like
(40:59):
a yoga a type workout or some kind of like
Matt on the floor workout. So I'm always barefoot. I'm
really like not in a shoe when I'm on a treadmill,
which I haven't been on since COVID, since the pandemic.
I think I put on a pair of sinkers that
someone sent to me that I just found in my closet.
But since then I did get like a great pair
(41:20):
of Nikes that I keep as like a slip on
to go like walking with my kids and the dog
and stuff like that, because it started to really be
an issue walking up the hills in LA with like
my slides. I was wearing like my Gucci slides to
do like long walks in which I don't recommend honestly. Okay,
don't forget to submit your questions for next week's episode.
(41:43):
All you have to do is DMUs your questions to
at Climbing in Heels pod on Instagram and I just
might answer your question. May have is She's one of
the kindest people I know. I haven't known her very long,
but I imediately loved her because she's kind of this
seemingly really tough girl that you know clearly has been
(42:06):
through it. She's very candid about being sober almost nineteen
years I think now, which is truly incredible because she's
so young, and you know, I always love talking to
women that are so candid about their journey and give
the raw, real goods and bads of the process, because
I think it's unrealistic to only share at the highlights,
(42:29):
because I think anyone successful has not only had highlights.
So thank you so much for listening to Climbing in Heels.
This was one of my favorite episodes, and please don't
forget to write a review wherever you get your podcasts.
It really helps us out and I love reading them
while you're at it. Follow me on at Rachel Zoe
and at Climbing in Heels Pod on Instagram for more
(42:53):
updates on upcoming guests, episodes, and all things Kreatur. Stay
stylish and I'll talk to you next week. My um
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