Nyakio Grieco: Building a Brand

On today’s episode, Rachel Zoe speaks with Nyakio Grieco, entrepreneur and founder, behind some of the best skincare brands on the market. Together, they speak about her career pivots throughout her life along with the hardships of building a brand and dealing with haters once you’ve achieved your goals and become successful.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:44):
Currently with Curator, where I share my latest style obsessions,
all of which you can purchase through my shopping community Curatour.
My spring curation is here. Throughout the season, I'm going
to be telling you more about everything inside of it,
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(01:05):
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(01:30):
These boxes are in limited supply, so head to curator
dot com that cure at eu R dot com to
clean this offer. Now. Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and
you're listening to Climbing in Heels. This show is all

(01:53):
about celebrating the most extraordinary superwoman who will be sharing
their incredible journeys to the top, all while staying glamorous.
Today with me, I have entrepreneur, founder and my friend
Nikio Greco, who is behind some of the best skincare
brands on the market. Nikio is all about using clean

(02:13):
and green beauty products specifically called pressed oils to treat
the skin and trust me, they work. Look at her skin,
I promise you. On today's episode, Nikio talks about her
career pivots, of which there are many, from being a
CIA assistant to creating her own e commerce business for
bipoc beauty products. She also talks about the hardships of

(02:37):
building a brand and dealing with haters once you've achieved
your goals and becoming successful. You didn't hear it from me,
but this may be one of my very favorite episodes
of this season. You are going to learn a lot.

(03:00):
I'm so happy to have you on. We've had so
many amazing women on this podcast in I think you
probably know pretty much all of them, if not ninety percent,
And I think you know first off, I like to
just say why I started Climbing in Heels is because,
like you, we have the most incredible women that surround us,

(03:23):
and everyone does something different, everyone's at the top of
their game. And for me, you know, it's been so
incredible to watch like everyone kind of forge their own path.
Some people have gone to a lot of school, some

(03:43):
people have gone to barely any school. Some people have
had one hundred jobs, some people started out of their garage.
And so I think for me, I wanted to really
get into like women's paths to the top because they
are so different. And it's called climbing in Heels because
all the women that have been on here are women

(04:05):
who really do embrace being a woman. And what that
means to them and that I think the struggle has
been for us coming up over the last whatever it
is twenty years, call it um fighting for our space
but owning being a woman. And I think they're sort

(04:26):
of like and now it's I think, becoming easier to
be a woman that succeeds. But as you know, it
hasn't always been that way. So I think, um, I
always like to just start a little bit um from
the beginning because I find and this is like, you know,

(04:46):
as a psych major, and I'd like to say that
my career in styling has has has really served me
as a psychologist left well yeah, but I mean yeah,
but um but I I do like to start a
little bit as like who were you as as a
little girl? Like were you this like fiery, ambitious like

(05:08):
girl or were you painfully shy and like you know,
scared of your own shadow kind of kid? Or like
none of the above. So let's go back. First of all,
where were you born and where did you grow up?
Like like where, yes, how did you come to how
did you come to be in this world? Oh my gosh,
I love this. I love this, I love this setup.
I love the pod. I just I'm so excited that

(05:28):
you're doing that, and it is It is so much
fun to to listen and to watch, um you know,
the content around the pod and see you know here
everybody's trajectory. It's so important. It's our stories. Um So.
I am a first generation American of Kenyan descent. I
was born in Upstate New York and then moved from

(05:49):
Upstate New York to New York City and New Jersey,
where I lived until I was eight in Wayne. I
know we have that Jersey connection no one else does
and no one else does, right, I think Ali Larder
might be our only Yeah, that's our Jersey world action.
But when I was eight, I to Oklahoma. So my

(06:11):
father started the African Studies program at the University of Oklahoma.
So one day he came home in Tena, Jersey and
he was like, we're moving to Oklahoma. So that's where
I was, right where. So did you how did that
affect you at eight? Because I think about my son
who's eight, and I try and figure out, like, right,
I mean, kids are very resilient and very adaptable, and
I think, but you know I do. I have had

(06:32):
women on this pod that are like Oh my god.
I was moved around one hundred times. I never had
friends in one place. I had a single mom. So, like,
how was that? Were you freaked out? Were you excited?
Was Oklahoma hard? Yeah? You know, I actually had a
very happy childhood in Oklahoma. But when I got to

(06:52):
Oklahoma from New Jersey, you know, I went to preschool, kindergarten,
first grade, you know, moved in second grade. And I
remember or the first day of school, my teacher asking me,
you know, do you have any questions? And I looked
around the room and I didn't say, you know, where
are the other black shore of course, I literally said
where are all the Puerto Rican, Italian and Jewish people?

(07:16):
Because I'd never been in such like a homogenous looking
room in my entire life. I mean, we lived in Wayne,
New Jersey, which is right around the blockchol City. So
you know, my early childhood days were taking all my
dance classes. My mom took us into the city every weekenday,
you know, So that was that was all I knew
up until that point. But you know, surprisingly and luckily

(07:41):
I really thrived in Oklahoma. Who knew by the way,
which is so by the way, and that's so incredible
because because you would think the opposite, honestly, because this
was a while ago. Not that you're old, because you're
still very young, but yeah, yeah, no, it was the eighties.
And you know, I will say that, you know, I
grew up around the Oklahoma City area in Norman, Oklahoma,

(08:03):
which is a college town which definitely recruits people from
all over. And I do find that when you grow
up in a college town, it doesn't necessarily reflect the
small towns around, right, So I think I was fortunate
to be sort of in the metro Oklahoma City and
Norman area and then was there, you know, all the
way through state and went to college there. So you really,

(08:25):
that's so nice. You got to stay close to your family. Yes,
they didn't want me to. My parents wanted me to
go away. They were like, you've been here for quite
some time. It's time to sew your oats. It's let's
go to Syracuse or somewhere on the East coast. And
I stayed. I was really happy there. And you know
the transition of going to growing up in a town

(08:48):
and then going to college in the same town is
also quite a transition. Because I moved on campus, joined
histrority house. See that's so nice. I think that's so
nice because a lot of kids don't want to leave home,
so they like go to school. And my parents are like,
if you're not leaving the state, you're definitely leaving this up.
I did get to go, you know, it was nice.

(09:08):
I had a place to go, do my laundry and
drop in for you know, family dinners and things like that.
But yeah, it was it was lovely and and and
the transition between you know, going to Norman High School
and then going to oh you was dramatically too, because
then all of a sudden there were all these people
that came in from right other places with different sort
of upbringings, etc. So that was an interesting transition. And

(09:31):
you could you grew up with working parents both both working, okay,
both parents academia. My mom and dad both professors deans
except hence you, hence you. This was this was like
this was the brain was going to be passed down
one way or another. Okay, So that that actually makes
a lot of sense. But I also feel that, especially

(09:53):
if you grow up in a happy family with a
happy childhood, very often that work ethic and all of
those things that you're surrounded by. I think it's just osmosis,
Like it's what you see, it's what you know, it's
what you're like. Oh no, I'm doing this, I'm working.
This is not like I'm not marrying some random person
and like trying to live that way, like not that

(10:14):
that's not okay, I'm not judging Mary whoever you want.
But yeah, but um, but I do think our work ethic,
whether in an obvious way or or a less obvious way,
really does come from our upbringing. And so okay, so
at what point were you like, Hey, all right, this
is this is my dream, these are my goals, Like

(10:34):
what happened first? Because I know a little bit of course,
like from our conversations and like obviously I've read a
million things that you've done and like whatever, but I
like to hear it from you because sometimes things get
you know, turned around, but I want to hear your story. Yeah. So,
so I went to University of Oklahoma. I studied business
smart as that was very smart by the way it was,

(10:57):
it was smart, but it was also like and I'm
so great for that degree, but I didn't know, honestly
what I wanted to be when I grew up until
I was probably in my thirties, and you said, okay,
it was you know, often when you're a first generation American,
there's this expectation that you're going to be, you know,
an academier, You're going to be an engineer, You're going

(11:17):
to be a doctor, you're gonna be a lawyer. And
while those things were suggested to me, it was never
what I wanted to do. And I actually wanted to
be a newscaster. That's what I wanted to do. And
I wanted to study um and my parents, you know,
definitely talked to me after that. You wanted you wanted
to get up at two o'clock in the morning and

(11:37):
like to make up at three and then now I
want some other places. Yeah, now I wanted to be
Diane Lawyer. By the way, chung like I had lofty goal.
That's a local I understand that. By the way, and
by the way, Diane Sawyer is like the queen. I
love her, and and by the way, the same everyone's like,
who's your hero, I'm like oprah duh, Like yeah, I

(12:00):
loved category of icons. Yes, So when my parents, you know,
suggested that I don't study to be a newscaster. I
decided that business was well rounded, wanted to be a
lawyer for a little while, decided that wasn't my path,
and so, you know, I was a business marketing major,
and I guess in hindsight, I didn't ever plan to

(12:23):
go have a marketing job per se. I just wanted
to graduate and figure out what I wanted to be
when I grew up. But when I was in college,
I worked a lot in sports, and so you know,
in Oklahoma sports it's a business thing, and so I
worked for the men's basketball team, I worked for the
men's baseball team at the university, and did an internship

(12:43):
with ESPN, and so I thought, ultimately, you know, maybe
I'll work in sports, maybe I'll be a sports agent.
And I ended up moving to LA when I was
twenty three because I didn't want all the jobs that
I was being offered in pharmaceuticals and you know, investment
firms and all those things. I was like, that sounds
really cool. So I'm going to move to LA and
I'm going to be a sports agent. And then, you know,

(13:05):
I got here and realized that that was not an
easy path, and so I became an assistant at CIA.
That was my first out of interesting so so so entertainment.
It's funny because like you grew up in Oklahoma, you
come from these super academic parents, you go to this
great school. You're a business major, which, by the way,

(13:25):
in hindsight, like I wish, I mean, being a psych
major has definitely served me. But I would say, right,
if I had to rewind, I would say business, business,
business can only help you in life, no matter what
yath you choose, right exactly, and it's it's a great
well rounded. Although I really loved my psychology and syciategy classes.
I would just run around diagnosing people up all day.

(13:48):
I diagnosed people all day still, But I will say that,
like it's funny because you know, I think for so
many people, I mean, you know, coming from sort of
like New York, LA, like New Jersey, like everyone's like,
I want to be an agency. I want to be
an agency. But like nobody understands really what that means.
It's not cute in the beginning, it's not glamorous. It's not.

(14:11):
But there are just endless success stories of the people
that really stayed do that. But so but okay, so
you're like, okay, I'm I'm this academic person. I want
to be an entertainment There was obviously to me, there's
a common thread here. You want it. There was something
you were seeking because me knowing you on a personal level,
you have a very loud, strong voice that needs to

(14:34):
be heard, right, And it's nice that you saw that
early and you felt that. So there was something pulling
you to that. And I think, if I'm just playing me,
I'm seeing that, Like you're sort of like, Okay, I
want to use my brain, but I want to use
my voice. I have a lot to say. How do

(14:56):
I start this? And it's very confusing because you're twenty
to your twenty three and you're like, jerk, got I
don't know what I want to do, but like, what's
my first steps? You end up at CIA, right, and
what happens room? Yeah? No, I luckily got straight on
a nice nice I worked in the reality TV department,
which this is before reality TV was what we know

(15:19):
it to be today. This is like when animals attack pops.
Taxicab Confessions was the runaway hit, right, like this was not.
It was the only department at the time were they
accepted unsolicited material. You know, Yeah, you know, for people
who don't speak agent, that's you know, most agencies don't

(15:39):
let you just drop off the show, but that's called
unsolicited material. But that was allowed because they were just
looking for content. And so my part of my job
was taking home VHS teams at night and watching the
most messed up ideas for TV shows, like really a

(15:59):
true lesson in humanity. Um so when I say reality TV,
people think we then, but no, this was real. This
was real. That's like what Charlie did, like original Media,
I think, if I remember correctly, like they were doing
a lot of this and they were doing so well.
I mean there, but yeah, it's hardcore. That was our
first foray into it. So I worked on a desk

(16:20):
with the actually very lovely agent, so I didn't have
you know, I mean, yes, they were sure, but she
was kind of amazing, and so you know, I was
as I was making friends, I was like, oh, I'm
the lucky one. I really loved out on the desk,
and so I worked with her for a while and
then you know, moved on. I didn't necessarily want to
do the training program. I was pretty shure at that point.

(16:41):
I didn't want to be an agent, and so I
left and I went to a management company and worked
there for a while. Three Arts right, three Arts. I
went to Yeah. So I went to three Arts. After
I actually went from to a small management company that
doesn't exist anymore called Elephant Walk, and then I went
and I left. My actually worked with Sweet the late

(17:03):
Jay Maloney for many years, and then after he passed away,
then I went to three Arts and I worked with
and then that's when I realized, like as much as
I love the clients, I love the fashion and beauty aspect,
I want to be in the makeup trailers. I want
to get to know people like you. I want to
know the stylists. I want to It wasn't about reading

(17:23):
scripts and finding actors jobs that I found my passion.
And it was in that time that I would get
so many products. Well, first of all, it was a
really interesting time. It was an incredible time for indie beauty.
This is like the days of Steela and Hard Candy
and all of these brands like Yeah coming to the forefront.
And then also it was this really interesting time when

(17:44):
you started to see actresses on covers as opposed to
just models or actresses sort of diversify their careers by
getting you know, Nutrogena campaigns, and so you know, this
was the very early two thousands, and by the way,
wanted celebrities on the cover. At that point, there was
that wave where it was like there was no models

(18:05):
on covers for like a long stretch of time. I
remember that because because actors sold Yeah yeah, I missed print.
But you know, at that at that time, it was
exciting because I got to be a part of this
sort of evolution in fashion and beauty while still working

(18:27):
at a at a talent management company, and so you know,
I had a lot of products that came across my
desk and a lot of really sweet actresses that were like,
oh yeah, I was. I was such a product fanatic.
And you know, it was in that moment, I'd say,
that was my aha, like twenty seven year old moment
that I realized that there were all these incredible beauty

(18:49):
products coming across my desk. And because I had had
this Kenyan heritage and learned my first beauty secrets from
my Kenyon grandmother in the Chaou when I was eight,
I I understood in that moment that the continent of
Africa was so underrepresented, especially in premium beauty, and when
the most beautiful skin exists there by the way, let's

(19:12):
talk about got so what is that right? And the
beauty rituals. Yeah, like every product I would look at
would use like Marilla, But nobody talked about Africa at
that time. And so I decided, at the ripled age
of twenty seven twenty eight, I'm going to quit my
job and make my grandmother's coffee scrubs. That's how it happened.

(19:34):
I wanted to celebrate the sophistication of Africa and teach
everybody about all the incredible ingredients. I mean, it's just
so fascinating sometimes when I look back to, you know,
twenty three years ago me, and it's amazing the courage
and resilience and just go get them attitude that you

(19:54):
have at that age that you have to kind of see.
It's kind of crazy. And I think, you know, one
of the question I get asked a lot, whether social
media or just doing interviews, is like, I'm thirty five
or I'm forty or forty five? Is it too late
to start a new path? And I'm like, there is
no age on starting a new path. There just isn't now,

(20:15):
you know, I just think there isn't. And I think
it takes a lot of trial and error sometimes to
find your path. And I think, you know, it's very
interesting because I think for you, you got to now
combine all these different things that you've learned at all
your different jobs. And I think it's important to always

(20:36):
step back and be like, Okay, if I didn't do
that step, right, Like, if I didn't do that step,
I would have never figured out that I could have
done this or that I didn't like doing that. And
there's a lot of what ifs, I think in our lives, right,
and a lot of like our path is always very like,
it's very crooked. It's not really like Rice right, it's

(20:58):
not really straight and easy. And I feel like those
left and right turns sometimes are what sometimes kicks our
ass takes us come down. But I think when you
get up, you're like, Okay, if that didn't almost kill me,
I would have never had the courage to just be like, hey,

(21:22):
you know what, I'm just doing this because this is
what I really love. And now do you feel like
I mean, listen, you're probably working harder now than you've
ever worked in your life because it's for you. You
have a lot of people involved, you have all these
different brands you are representing. I want to talk about
now what you're doing, because I feel like you started
your own brand right then, and then you launched thirteen Loon,

(21:46):
and I want to hear about what I know about it,
but I want to share about it, and then I
want to hear also now you recently launched Relevant, which
is getting bigger and bigger, so I want to talk
about all that too, because well, first off, the products
are amazing, so I want to say that thank you
so totally, like unbiased, unsolicited. She didn't ask me to
say that. I just I'm here to say that they're

(22:08):
really incredible. Thank you so much. And I think what
you're doing is so important but also beautiful and smart.
But it's like I was at the lunch this summer
and I left there just so like filled with emotion.
I'm filled with like excitement to like talk to the
founders and like use the products, and like I went

(22:30):
home with this massive back of goodies and I was
like slathering all these like oils all over me and
like that so well, because we can never have enough oil, right,
like never, never, but never. So so tell me how
that because I feel like you started with a scrub,
then you still like you at your brand? And then
what happened? Yeah? So, so I started with my grandmother's

(22:51):
Scotty scrub. That was the very first product ever made.
And by the way, you were at my very first
month right in two thousand and like, talk about so
crazy supportive sister, a woman who moved supports women. You've
been doing it for now twenty one year. I yeah,
so I started as an indie brand. I had barely

(23:13):
any capital. I learned very quickly as a young female,
a young black female, how hard it would be to
raise the thing. So I just didn't waste my time. Rice.
I was like, forget it. I'm just gonna go. And
by the way, I always stayd You know, young people
today or even people who were starting new journeys in
their thirties or forties, don't don't get deterred by the stats.

(23:36):
I had no idea that only I mean, I can't
even imagine in two thousand and two two percent of
women get VC funding or point zero zero zero six
percent of people of hunt. I had no idea what
the stats were I just knew, like I needed a job.
I quit my job. I wanted to make this coffee
scrub thing work, and I needed to make it work.

(23:57):
So I got friends and family capital, didn't waste my
time when I didn't get return phone calls from from
vcs or private equity, and then had a tiny bit
of cash enough to make the products, enough to launch
it into fred Siegel. Ron Robinson's apathy at fred Siegel. God,
I love that. That was the best. He was my
very first yes. I always give him credit. He was

(24:19):
my first yes in this. And and then you know,
back in those days, nobody believed LA to be a
beauty hub, so you had to have a New York retailer.
So I launched at Jeffrey New York. By the way,
it could also the best, like that's a thing like
you those are two of the absolute If it wasn't
it Jeffrey's, it didn't exist right best store ever. I

(24:39):
miss it so much, but you know, and then you know,
I couldn't afford a staff. I was shipping and receiving
customer service. I gave you know, some equity in the
company to our friend Troy Nankin so he could do
the pr because I couldn't afford a publiciste, and he
loved beauty as much as I did, and so partnered
with him and really just sort of learned how to

(25:00):
be an entrepreneur by teaching myself and asking a lot
of questions and making a ton of mistakes and had
many tons, so many and how many times do you
get asked do you ever make mistakes? Have you made
any mistakes? Yeah, you're not. You're not actually paying attention
to if you're not making mistakes or honoring those mistakes,

(25:21):
because they always lead you to a better lesson. And
so I had a lot of stops and starts. Most
of my stops had to do with the business getting
to this level, but I didn't have the capital to
take it to that level. And and so I would
I mean that business relaunch. I mean, I don't can't
even remember how many relaunch parties I had. It was
like just this running ongoing, but like the resilience of like, Okay,

(25:45):
well I'm gonna go await for a little while, try
to find so many you know, help my friends start
a T shirt brand, or help this one start a
candle brand. Stores, and then I'm back do you ever
and feel like, Okay, wait, do you ever feel like
you're in the ocean right, Like, do you ever feel
like you're in the ocean swimming out and then like

(26:05):
the wave comes and you fall backwards and then you
swim yeah, and then the wave and you go back. Yes,
that it's called entrepreneurs it's it's it's wild and and
so yeah, there were there were gut wrenching moments. Um.
You know, I always sell people. I used to have
a real trigger to the word failure because when our

(26:26):
kids learned to write nice and they fall, we didn't
think look at them failures. The only failure was not
getting back up and trying that. And so I had
a lot of get back up moments in that journey.
And then, you know, got to be an amazing portfolios.
At one point I was part of the Girlwige portfolio
which founded Lord Mercier, and I got to learn so
much being a part of this big portfolio. And then

(26:46):
they sold. And this happens a lot, especially in beauty.
You have a brand and then the big company cells
and then you have to move on. And so I
did that a couple of times. And hold on, were
you having kids at this point, were you like also
having children, right, yes, yes, baby number one came in
two thousand and six. I shut the business down in
two thousand and eight. Baby number two came in two

(27:08):
thousand and ten, had to find new investors in two
thousand and fourteen. I mean it was, yes, it was
quite quite And I'm married to an artist, right, So
it was you know, very much a you know, yes,
we do arts and crafts for a living, but you
feel it sometimes and and so it's crazy at all,

(27:31):
Like I look back, I look back at the mistakes.
I look at the times I didn't trust my gut,
I took bad deal, I got in business with people
I had no business getting business with him, and I
knew it, and I knew it, but I didn't I
did it out of des did it because yeah, yeah,
And so those lessons were big lessons learned. But it

(27:52):
was really in twenty twenty that I found that my
passion and my purpose aligned, which is I had been
doing this Nicao beauty dance for eighteen years at that point, yeah,
had sold to Unilever in two thousand and seventeen. You know,

(28:12):
it was still considered niche and boutique, even though it
was Unilever brand, and it after the murder of George Floyd.
When I tell you, in my eighteen year beauty career
had never received more pressed, more attention, more sales. And
at this point I didn't even own the company. I

(28:33):
just worked there, right, m dms flying at me, and
at that point, truth be told, I didn't I wasn't
thinking about beauty. We were in the middle of a
globi What were we thinking about at that point? Surviving? Literally,
like staying alive? Yeah. Literally, My husband had almost died
of COVID, but he got in March for twenty twenty

(28:53):
where nobody really knew what was happening. I am black,
I have two buy racial children. I was not caring
about beauty things at that moment. But I couldn't believe
how many lists Top Black owned, Black Shop, follow etc.
List that I was on. And so rather than just

(29:14):
be pissed about it all, I started shopping the list.
That's how I depended to take my pain and turn
it into perfect. Let me just start buying some of
these ts. First of all, I was shocked because it's
someone who had been in premium skincare for eighteen years.
I'd always thought I was the only Right now I'm
on a list of five hundred brands, one hundred brands,

(29:35):
a thousand brands that I've never heard of, it very
little distribution. When I went to their instagrams and started
going down a rabbit hole, I couldn't believe how many
of them didn't have very many followers. Started reading their
stories incredible humans, and I'm like, this is ridiculous. How
is it that I never knew they existed? And if

(29:55):
I didn't know black female founder and beat a lot
of people, well right. And so that's when you know,
Patrick and I, one of my dear friends and co
founder of thirteen Loon, we've been talking about starting something together.
We didn't know if we wanted to do fashion. We
didn't know if we wanted to do beauty. He had
always wanted to do something in beauty. I'd always wanted
to do something in fashion. And then it was just

(30:18):
this moment of you know, I'm going to go create
the retailer I always wished I had, wow And and
I know what it's like to be them, and I
know how hard it is to win it shelf, but
I've had the opportunities that they may never see if
we don't start something like this. And so that's how
thirteen of its kind truly inclusive beauty retail platform. And

(30:40):
you know, there were beautiful initiatives happening, like the fifteen
percent Pledge and pull up for teen all of this
happening in twenty twenty, and permission for black and brown
people to stand up and not have to ask for
permission for equality and justice. But it was also very
confusing to me that there's I'm on a list of
five hundred brands, How's it so hard to get to

(31:02):
thirteen on shell? Yeah? So it's like, I guess we'll
do it. Yeah, But I mean it's so brilliant, and
it's also I think just given your history and experience,
it's like you know, I mean I know personally obviously
because they know and love you, but like, I know,

(31:23):
anything that's going on thirteen Loon is going to be amazing, right.
So yeah, yeah, because one would say, Okay, why would
I why would I go here versus Altar or Sephora
or wherever? Right? And I think because obviously, like I'm
biased in saying this, but like you know, right, so
I'm saying that. But I think, but I think for

(31:43):
for my listeners and our listeners, it's sort of like
this is the destination to go for. It's it's it
offers discovery. It's like early yes, Saphoria. Yeah, I remember
when Sephora, you know, first came to the US, and
I would walk through there and discover brands I'd never
go back before, right, And so yes, ninety percent of

(32:04):
our brands are you know, created by people of color
who make products for everyone, because we also needed to
debunk the myths that black and brown people only make
products for ourselves. But ten, that's ridiculous. First of all,
that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Sorry. And
by the way, like your products have African ingredients in
that right, Like like whether they're made by a black
or brown person, for sure, there's stuff in your cabinet

(32:26):
that comes from Africa, I mean, or South America or
Southeast Asia. So you know, we really it was sad
to me how many people in Supportive in twenty twenty
would send me DMS when Nicao when I was still
working with the Nicao brand, and they would say, I
really want to buy your face oil, But I don't
look like you will it work on my skin? And

(32:46):
then my response to that would be like, I hope
if I use this oil, my skin will turn into
your skin. What are you talking about? Yes, like, yeah,
it's it's face oil. This is just ignorant. So yeah.
And by the way, everybody has melanie. That's the other
to the other teaching moments that I have to do
from time to time is when some people get you

(33:06):
say melanine rich or melanine period, and people just assume
you're talking about I mean, no, no, no, every single
person in the world have melanane in their skin. Some
have more. I only laugh because I'm just like, oh
my god, does this actually still Yes, it's still a
thing though. Wow. Entrepreneurs, No climbing to the top starts

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(34:35):
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so you know, in ten percent of our brands are
obviously dedicated to fostering ally ships because because we really

(34:58):
wanted to honor brands that long before twenty twenty, brands
like we carry Goop, our brands that long before our
journey cared about all in their formulations, really exhibited inclusion
and diversity in their companies, and so we have our
ALLY brands as well. But you know, I think it
has to be that way though, because then it's sort

(35:20):
of like it's sort of like it's almost like to
draw light in the sand and say this is only
black and brown owned, right. It's sort of like okay,
but wait, no, we it's not inclusion, right, that's not inclusion.
And if we say we're going to be the first
of its kind totally inclusive US beauty platform and score,
then we have to be totally inclusive. And by the way,

(35:42):
allyship has been a big part of my and my
journey and beauty and many of our ALLY brands are
founders who helped me when I was an independent founder
trying to survive its shelf, and so you know, and
you know, we also have big brands that are bipoc
owned like Path and and Farrell's Human Rights and you know.
And so it's great because what ultimately happens is that

(36:04):
we have created a family of brands and we really
operate as a family where we all support one another.
And yes, the products are incredible, and we have the
greatest VP of merchandise and she came from Netta Porte.
She helped build beauty at Netta Porte under David Olson.
Her name is Janelle Freeman, also a black woman, so
really actually, yeah, she's the best. I was so jealous

(36:27):
of her name obviously. Oh yeah, I was like, it
was your birth name, and I guess she's the best. Um,
So yeah, it's it's been this journey of you know,
we started with thirteen black owned brands in December of
twenty twenty. We now have over one hundred and seventy.

(36:49):
Jess opened or about to complete opening six hundred store
and stores in JC Chenney opening a flagship store. So
it is just I think the proof is in the
playing and that people want to make their shopping more
meaning and I think that's really what will attribute the
success that we've had thus far to the fact that

(37:09):
people just want to do good and by great beauty product.
Let me ask you a question. So, okay, so you've
clearly had there's been a lot of bumps in the road.
You've started and stopped a million times, you whatever was there?
Did you find any of the because I know, for
me and I talk about it very openly, I have
always had a lot of females that were not nice

(37:32):
to me, that were very awful and very just threw
up every obstacle they ever could for me to fail,
and so and and I think, now, you know, I
think that's probably why I'm so supportive of women, because
I do know how much that means, and I do
have incredibly supportive women in my life, and I think,

(37:54):
you know, when you know the difference, it kind of
matters more. So I'm curious, like, you know, you've obviously
had your own set of obstacles, but I mean, did
you ever have to deal with that pettiness, the copycat,
that jealousy? Did you deal with that? And like on
the flip side of that, I write, and then and
then on the flip side of that, yeah, is there

(38:14):
one person that you're like, this person changed my life?
This person Like so, okay, so did you did you?
So you did have haters, you did have copycats? Yeah?
Or you know, it's interesting, Um, it's interesting because you know,
I've always been, like it sounds cliche, just a girl's bole,
like I loved females. I have the most incredible group

(38:38):
of women in my life. If I've been god iss
circling since you know, I was in my twenties with
this group of women, and you know, it's just something
that I really prioritize. Or are my female friendships half
my You know, my best friend Shannon moved here love
from Olahoma because I had no friends. And you know, wait,
Shannon's from Oklahoma. Yes, Shannon, I mean was at seventeen.

(39:02):
Oh my god, I don't know why I thought she
was from Texas. We were sorry sisters, we were kappets together.
I rushed her. Wow, but yes, yeah, so Shannon's my sister.
We used to When she first moved here. We lived
in an apartment with two other people, but it was
a two bedroom and we slept on twin matches to
each other in the smaller. This is our dear friendsh Rottenberg,

(39:25):
who is also like a fatass female. She's and like
a true woman who supports women. But what's interesting is
in my journey, I've always felt so supported by women,
and if I had haters, I had no idea. In
the last two years of my life and I'm about
to turn fifty, I have experienced it. I was crying

(39:47):
to my husband about it last night, like wow, a
mean girl situation. And it's so interesting because I get
very triggered by you know, and this is like a
very supportive husband thing to say is, well, don't worry
about it. She's just jealous of you. To be what
does she have to be jealous of. I have worked

(40:08):
my ass off for twenty one year. I am dedicated
to changing lives of other people, like there's there's literally
room for all of us there. I don't believe that
there's anything anybody would have to be jealous of me,
So it doesn't resonate with me. But I will say
I believe that in success, yes, that's when the haters

(40:29):
are going to come back. And I never had experienced
that before because I was always trying to get to
a level. Yes, I had success with Nikaa, but I
was always brind always in the struggle. Even in the
high moments, it was still just trying to get to
the higher place, etc. I'm still on that journey, you know,
trying to help others build generational wealth, trying to build

(40:51):
my own generational wealth. But I will tell you whether
it's that I'm being seen more because I need to
be seen in order to support the mission, whatever it is.
I've had a few breakups with girlfriends, and it's really
freaking painful. It's real painful. And I think you're one
hundred percent right, and it is an absolute takeaway. And

(41:13):
I'll be honest with you. I've been dealing with it.
I mean, look in reality, and I've talked about this.
I've been dealing with it since I was in kindergarten however,
which is insane. But in my business life probably when
I was about probably since my first job and don't forget,
I'm in fashion, so um, you know you kind of
sign up for that. But like, but I will say

(41:35):
that from probably twenty five from from when the first
write up was done about me and my career, it
my whole it's just I've been like just tears and that,
you know, like I've been brought to tears on so
many occasions and with you know, and it's not like

(41:56):
I want to play victim. It's not at all that.
It's just more like at all right, And I think
we I think we just wonder that. And I think
you just mean such an interesting point that I never
really heard it. So so sort of like like in success,
it's sort of like there's this there isn't jealousy when
people are like, oh, she's really having a hard time.

(42:17):
This is really hard for her. She's really gotten knocked down.
It's like for some delusional reason, I think they think
that it's easy, or like, for some reason, you're getting lucky.
And I think that for whatever reason, you know, I
taught my kids at a very young age, when they
were old enough to understand, and I will never forget.
Because I was driving with my boys in the backseat.
My little one said, Mommy, wats jealousy? And he had

(42:39):
a lisp and it came off like He's like, good's jealousy.
It's like, you know what I said. I said, it's
the meanest, worst emotion that you'll ever feel. He said why,
I like hate, and I said, yes, but it's even
worse because jealousy is this trick emotion where it's like
a trigger, right, and it makes you think bad things,

(43:03):
it makes you do bad things. It makes you think
things or do things that you'll regret, and it's very
often out of jealousy, and it really makes you do
bad things. And I think sometimes people use it like
and I'm very I'm very mindful even now when I
say to somebody Oh my god, I'm so jealous of
your skin. I don't even want to use the word
jealous in that moment. I want to use the word

(43:24):
I'm envious of your skin, right, right, And I think
you're right, and I think I think that now you're
really having this moment. And to me, it's funny because
it's like like all of us to the outside, I've
always thought of you as this huge success, right, but
like you have three kids, and I want to talk
about that because I just had Anina being on my
on the pod last week, and yeah's great. I've known

(43:47):
her for so long, and I think that beyond I
can't I secretly hope Skyler and Bionca get married one day,
but the best, but they're the best. Benjamin's amazing, They're amazing,
And so I think, you know, it's interesting because while
she was building her company and similar to you, I
think the thing that I like to talk about because

(44:09):
I had my children later and I still work my
freaking ass off, but it's different because I always say,
when you're having children and building your career, I believe
there's no harder challenge there because those first ten years

(44:30):
of your children's life and let alone, you have three?
Don't you have three? You're two. I don't know why
I thought you had a third along the lines, but two.
So so you have four? U. But I that to
me is the ultimate hardship in this because having your

(44:51):
baby business and growing that and all the things, and
then having your babies who need you so bad they're
there most needy. It's sort of like to me, it's
sort of like that is the challenge. And so I
always say, like, okay, and I say this to Roger
all the time, like what would it have been if
I was doing if I was having the kids while

(45:14):
I was building my career. And I always think, like,
I think one of them would have greatly suffered, and
clearly years have not. But I do want to just
really commend you for that because I think with all
of these like you had to have your boxing gloves on,
you had to hide your tissues by for you know,
constantly I'm sure crying at night when no one was looking.

(45:37):
But yeah, yeah, now definitely, I mean, you know, but
it's interesting because yes, I had I had a brand
before I had a baby. You know, I had a
brand before I had a husband. So which is another
baby by the way, Yeah, I mean he was there.
He was my boyfriend. He helped me pack boxes and
and help me load the card. He was definitely a

(46:00):
hands on boyfriend. Best then stayed around and became my
husband and father of my children. But he you know,
I do think there was something pretty phenomenal, especially when
I had Lulu, m my oldest child, who's turning seventh
this week. Is crazy. We just did. We just went
through the seventh grade hustle to get Rocco into all

(46:22):
day nine head straight to a dinner when I'm abub
So even though it was really tough to be a
startup and be a mom with a newborn, there was
something really special about the fact that that kid came
to work with me every day because work was at
job and you know, I would say the greater, greater

(46:43):
challenge has probably been you know. And then when I
had Rocco, I was going through so many transitions and
business and partners and whatever that you know, it was
their five years of parts. So I had this you know,
built in, sweet big sister helper. But it was a
really traumatic time for me on so many levels professionally

(47:06):
that I sometimes felt like he sort of got robbed
that first year because I was trying to figure out
what my next checks were going to be. Um And now,
you know, it's interesting I said this. I was on
a panel the other day and someone said to me,
what triggers you? And I said, you know what triggers
me when? And it's sadly it happens a lot from

(47:27):
other women. Oh my god, is it so hard for
David that you travel so much with the kids, or gosh,
it seems like you're just all over the place, like
you're you're you're everywhere, you're out, you're that is my job, right,
And nobody's ever asked my husband when he went on
and it's hard and it's hard for me. Well, they ever,

(47:53):
And so that's one thing that turns you know that, Yeah,
mom guilt is real anybody, So it's real. But I
will say now that I have a seventeen year old
daughter that's, you know, starting to look at college independent.
She's so freaking independent, so proud wants to start her

(48:15):
own beauty brand. So we did something. Yeah, and my
mom worked around and I turned out just so, I
think I think you're right, and I think, look, I
think it's harder on us when they're babies. To be honest,
I think it's harder on us because truth be told,
it's so funny. I didn't leave Skyler until he was
like four. I just took him everywhere. I literally just

(48:36):
took him everywhere. And then Um and Caius I left
much younger because I was like, he doesn't even freaking
remember it. Literally like and it's funny because I remember
the first time I left them both they were like
four and one and I went to Australia and I
cried the higher flight. I cried the entire flight. Roger

(48:58):
was like, at some point, you have to stop crying.
This is so embarrassing. And I was like, and now
the other day, it's funny. I literally said to the kids,
do you remember that time I went to Australia when
Lada and They're like no, I'm like and that was
a real aha moment for me because what I realize
is it's us, it's us and and and so I think, Um,

(49:24):
I do think that ultimately it formed them. And I
think that really great kids with great work ethics come
from parents that work their ass off because it's all
they know and they know that they need to work
for what they want in life, you know, absolutely absolutely,
and I do. I do think it's it's quite a gift.
I mean, listen, being a stay at home mom, I

(49:46):
can't imagine a harder job. No, I do think that
there there is value and it also I think what
it does too, is it helps you to really truly
prioritize your hundreds. Right. And you know, even last night
when I was crying about someone hurting my feelings a
friend of former friend, doesn't it just take your stomach out? Yeah,

(50:10):
tally and then my husband at one point, and then
it's like and then I just stopped crying, and I thought, well,
this is just silly. Like I'm hanging out with you,
having a glass of wine, like I haven't seen you
all day. Like I don't want to spend my time
crying about hum. I want to ask you about your day. Right.
It's it's that constant prioritization of your moments that I

(50:30):
think that you get the privilege to figure out that
in self care, because without the self care, all the
wheels I got to get better at that because my
wheels are fun, just like my wheels are dalling off
of it, I just take a nap every day. Yeah,
I can just get every oven nap since I was pregnant.
But I'm also just not a great sleeper to begin with.

(50:51):
So I think that's beautiful. Now you have to practice
it is. I was a terrible nap. My mom said
I was the worst napper as a kid. I hated
taking naps growing up. I never valued a nap. Once
I had kids, and I wasn't even that mom that's
like sleep when the baby sleeps, like I would just say.
And one day I just was so exhausted, like with

(51:13):
life and yet my two kids, like I in a
remember it was the middle of the day. It was
like one o'clock in the afternoon, and I was like, yeah,
I'm gonna go to bed. So wait, is it like
a disc going up like a thirty minute or is
it like a two hours? Never, it's I set my
clop for thirty seven minutes because it takes me about
seven minutes to fall asleep seven to nine minutes. So

(51:34):
I kind of meditated in bed, and then at the
end of the meditation, I sort of drift off. You
go into this like nope, like your phone has to
be away, so you're forced to get up when it rings,
and then you kind of go into this really deep
sleep and then about the twenty fifth twenty six minute,
you know it's when the alarm actually gets to the

(51:54):
thirty seventh minute and you feel like a new kid
out of here. Okay, this is brilliant. I want you
after practice. It's hard, and then once you start doing it,
then you crave it. I schedule it, baby. It would
take me thirty seven minutes to wrap my head around
going to sleep, so like I can't even eater some
My team literally thinks I'm a lunatic. Like I literally

(52:17):
will text some about something so freaking random at like
two in the morning, and then at like five, I
just I suck. I have to really take this away
from today. The thirty seven minute I'm use and and
it doesn't even have to be midday whatever. Yo. I
had an eight am zoom and a nine am zoom,

(52:37):
but I don't have anything else to learn. I'm going
to do it at ten thirty like a baby. But
I also have the gift of sleeping anywhere, Like I'm
the person that falls asleep on the plane before. I
hate it. I sleep in cars. I actually hate you
right now, that's like, that's okay, So that is a gift.
I want you to recognize that as an actual gift, because,

(52:58):
like it is, there's no way I could do all
I do if I didn't sleep as much as that's beautiful. Well,
I love you so much. I'm very excited. I am
really genuinely. I'm such a fan and I love you
obviously as a person, and I've just gotten to know
you so much more over the last several years. And

(53:20):
like I'll never forget our kids playing at so a
house when they were little, and they're so cute, and
I hope they reconnect again. But I just I love
watching what you're doing. I also get very inspired by
you every time we speak. And you know, I also
love your journey, and I love that it wasn't easy,

(53:40):
and I love that you've done it all yourself. I
love that you have. You know when I say yourself,
what I mean by that is that you've had to
be your own champion to keep going, because you could
have quit a thousand times. But I'm very excited for
what's to come, for thirteen loon at, for relevant and
all of it. So thank you. I love you, love

(54:02):
you madly. And thank you for being there for the last.
You are truly truly to bed. I will always be
and I will always be. So let's keep doing it. Yes,
let's do it together. Please tell me what things I
have to slather all over my face to look more
like you. When I got off the phone, just take

(54:23):
a nap, right, Sure, that's that's going to be it,
all right, my sweet have a beautiful day, take your
disc on out. Thank you. It's the time in the
show when I answer to listener questions, So let's see
what we have today. If you were to wear one

(54:45):
dress from the Oscars, which ones would you choose? And why?
I would have to say, hands down, no questions, asked
Cardelavine's red Eelie Sob couture was salute perfection from top
to bottom. I would wear it. I love everything about it.

(55:06):
I love that it was this very subtle kind of
sexy moment. I loved how grace Kelly she looked. I
loved the jewelry. I literally looked at that and said,
if there was one look at the Oscars that I
would have styled exactly the same way, without tweaking a thing.

(55:27):
It would have been on Kardelavin's Okay, do you get
eyelash extensions? That's really funny. So the answer is I
do not, and I have not in ten years. I
did used to get them when they first came out
because I thought it was like a dream come true

(55:49):
that I could have like Bardol lashes permanently. And then
I quickly stopped doing them for a few reasons. One
because they broke my actual real eyelash off and two
because I found them to be very high maintenance, and
as someone who gets their makeup done a lot for
shoots and things like that, I found that the makeup

(56:11):
artists really struggled with them. And then I really struggled
when I was traveling and I would lose some and
some would come out, and then I couldn't get them replaced,
and it was such a thing, and so I do not.
I put on individual lashes myself and it's very easy
and I just do my own so and I like

(56:34):
being able to take them on and off, so that's
what I do. Don't forget to submit your questions for
next week's episode. All you have to do is dm
us your questions to at Climbing in Heels pod on Instagram,
and I might just answer your question. Thank you so
much to Niko for coming on the podcast today and

(56:54):
opening up about her life, career, and her goals. Niko
is truly one of them most thoughtful and passionate people
I know, and I can't wait to see what else
comes her way. And I have to say, of all
the episodes we've done this far, this one has really
the most takeaways in terms of all of you out

(57:15):
there trying to build a brand, trying to make a
career pivot, trying to you know, sort of get over
your fears of trying to really live out your dreams,
no matter how unrealistic they may seem. I think Nikeo
has clearly had hurdles to jump over, and you know,
she's here. She's smiling, she's excited, she's more passionate than ever,

(57:39):
she's still going stronger than ever, and you know, really
doing what she believes in. And you know, I'm certainly
a fan. I get very inspired every time I speak
to her, whether just you know, hanging out at a
party or you know, actually interviewing her like today. I
learned so much and I hope you did too, And
I really think you're gonna love this episode, and don't

(58:01):
forget to check out thirteen luon because it's pretty out back.
And if you want more Climbing Inhales content, follow me
on at Rachel Zoe and at Climbing Inhales Pod on
Instagram For more updates on upcoming guests, episodes, and all
things creature. I will see you next week.