June 3, 2024 • 38 mins
The relentless pursuit of Billy Halpern’s killer intensifies. Detective Danny Smith uncovers new intel from a surprising witness, while investigative journalist Scott Weinberger reveals crucial updates on the DNA testing. A shocking new piece of evidence, potentially holding fresh DNA samples, is handed over to the police by the most unexpected source. The investigation also pivots back to a key figure in the infamous Danger Road murders. Could this elusive suspect be the one behind Billy Halpern’s brutal death?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
My dad was a police officer.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
He actually worked at Nearmark Police Department for seven years
when I was a kid growing up, and then he
ultimately left and he went to Metro Dad Police Department,
which happens to be the same department that Gil Fernandez
worked for.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
By March of twenty twenty four, Detective Danny Smith had
been the lead investigator on the Billy Halpern cold case
for eighteen months, knowing that his father had been a
Miramar police officer in nineteen eighty six at the time
of the original investigation, I asked Danny if there was
anything he would like to ask his father if he
(00:40):
was still around.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I'm curious as to the general sense of maybe urgency
on clearing it.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Was this something where it was all hands on deck.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Would they just say put all your stuff down with
everyone to work this or was it just like another
murder violent eighties and we'll do what we can and
then we'll move on.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Over the course of his own investigation, Danny's been able
to verify a lot of what was in the original
case file. The detectives that were Billy's case in nineteen
eighty six were thorough and buy the book, but with
everything that we've learned about this case, it still bothers
us that Billy Hoppin's murder was never cleared and that
(01:21):
his killers were never ideed or held accountable.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I think that there was a small portion of that
where the investigators knew who were involved, they knew the
crew that was involved, and they felt good getting at
the very least kill Fernandez and Bert Christie indicted and
then found guilty.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
That's a sentiment shared by Billy's friend Dave Fosano.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
I think that it was true that they didn't pursue
anything else because they're doing life, so that the cops
and detectives just didn't pursue anything else. I believe that.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Do you think that's right?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
No, because those families don't have clothing. Well, I'm almost
ready to cry, I am.
Speaker 6 (02:15):
I'm just picturning. He was such a nice guy. I
loved him like a brother. He was very good to me.
We had a lot of good times.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
I wish he was alive today because we would still
be by my side and he'd be so proud of me.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Jil Fernandez and Burt Christie's conviction on the Danger Road
murders brought an end to a complicated investigation, but it
also left some important unanswered questions, like who stormed into
Billy Halpern's town home, strangled him and then cut his
throat so deeply he was nearly decapitated, What did he
actually know that made him a target for such a
(02:57):
brutal murder? And is it possible that someone within law
enforcement had tipped off the ex cop Gil Fernandez about
which members of the Apollo Jim posed a threat to
his criminal enterprise.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Danny was determined to keep digging.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff, and
this is cold blooded the Apollo Jim murders. Harry Collier
was a reputed hit man from the Northeast, with an
obsession with knives and a close relationship with Gil Fernandez
(03:38):
and Bert Christie, and in nineteen eighty six, he was
also married with his first child on the way. When
Detective Danny Smith spoke to his widow, she confirmed that
Collier's behavior had become erratic and suspicious in the months
around Billy's murder and leading up to his own, whether
(04:00):
that was due to his steroid use or his new
job working for gil Fernandez doing what he called private investigations.
She was never sure, but she told Danny that there
were telltale signs that he was involved in something criminal.
Guns stashed at their home, new cars, secretive late night
(04:20):
phone calls, and even talk of one last big score,
one that Harry Collier never returned from. But Collier's widow
also made Danny aware of a piece of evidence that
may prove critical improving his involvement in Billy Halpern's murder,
a blood stained towel she discovered in her home shortly
(04:44):
after her husband was killed. It felt like a long shot,
but if forensic analysts could pull Billy's DNA from the
forty year old stains, it would be the first direct
connection between Collier and the crime scene and all but
proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Collier was indeed one
(05:05):
of Billy's killers.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
It's been almost a year that we've been actively involved
in this case.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Christina Savito at DNA Labs International is an expert in
collecting and identifying DNA, and her dedication to this case
has made her an invaluable member of the team.
Speaker 7 (05:27):
The first piece of evidence that we looked at back
in March of last year, were two pieces of electrical tape,
so there was electrical tape from the left wrist and
then electrical tape from the right wrist, which had also
a rubber glove tip on it as well.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Danny thought the electrical tape and the glove tip would
certainly identify the men that bound and killed Billy Halper,
but as we've learned, it's never that easy.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
The DNA sample recovered was just too small.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
All but Danny's hopes were lifted when Christina combined the
samples from the tape and the glove and the DNA
mixture indicated the presence of three unknown individuals.
Speaker 7 (06:13):
When you have a mixture with multiple people, we have
a software that we use. It's called star Mix. It
helps us to resolve some of these mixtures and at
times it can pull out individual profiles for the contributors
or the people in that mixture. Unfortunately, for this sample,
(06:36):
it wasn't able to pull out a specific profile for
the people or the individuals in that mixture. However, it's
still suitable for comparison, so any standards that we get
at any point in time can be compared to this DNA.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Profile in other words, this was not just a matter
of dropping the DNA profile into codis and having it
spit out the name of Billy's killer. We would need
a one to one comparison between this DNA profile and
a potential suspect. But here was the problem. Danny didn't
have the DNA from any of the men at the
(07:13):
top of his suspect list, the men he suspected of
attacking Billy at his home, Harry Collier, Jimmy high Note,
or Gil Fernandez. The blood samples on the spot cards
from high Note and Collier stored by Browerck County ended
up being too degraded and yielded no viable DNA. Fingernail
(07:37):
clippings from Billy Haupern showed no evidence of foreign tissue
or blood, and strands of the killer's hair that was
supposed to be sealed in an evidence envelope had mysteriously
gone missing. But the DNA profile Christina had developed still
had crucial evidentiary value.
Speaker 7 (07:57):
Because this is a sample that is suitable for compares garrison.
At this point we have that we just need additional
standards to compare to in order to figure out who
might be contributing to that DNA profile.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
The solution was straightforward.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Danny needed to find a way to get a fresh
DNA sample from suspects that were either unwilling, missing, or dead.
Speaker 7 (08:23):
That actually happens more than you would think, so, especially
with these cool cases. You know, people pass away and
they're still suspects, right, and you can't go out and
get a buckle swab because they're gone. And maybe you
could go out and exoom their bones and try to
get a reference sample that way, but that's obviously time
consuming and it's costly. So one option we have is
(08:46):
using the DNA profile from a relative, and.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
So that's exactly what Danny did.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Collier's adult son consented to a cheek swab and agreed
to submit his DNA for comparison.
Speaker 7 (09:00):
Able to pull out a DNA profile and we're able
to compare it, we can run something like a paternity
statistic and say, okay, well this person can't be ruled out.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Christina developed a DNA profile of Harry Collier's son, and
Danny and I held our breaths waiting for the results.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
So we compared him to the electrical tape sample and
he was excluded as a contributor to the mixed DNA profile.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
With almost certainty, Harry Collier had been excluded as a
contributor to the DNA found on the electrical tape used
to tie up Billy halper It was a letdown, for sure,
But maybe it just meant that Collier never touched the tape.
Maybe he just held the knife, And now we might
(09:51):
even have the proof that he was in the room.
Speaker 8 (09:56):
And then there was also a white towel which was
collected from Collier's wife at the time.
Speaker 9 (10:04):
Who apparently told us that he brought it home from
on one night and it was full of blood.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
My hope and Danny's hope was this was the hail Mary,
so to speak.
Speaker 7 (10:17):
So in the seventh report, we collected a sample from
the right from both sides of the towel.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
After all, if the bloodstained towel that Collier's widow found
contained any of Billy Halpern's DNA, it would prove a
direct link between Collier and the helping crime scene. Why
else would Collier be in possession of a towel containing
a murder victim's blood unless he was there wiping the
victim's blood from his hands, his face, or even the
(10:48):
murder weapon itself. The towel in question had been stored
at the Briar Sheriff's office. Danny took custody of the
evidence and delivered it to Christina.
Speaker 7 (11:01):
We used a collection device known as the end back,
and I like to think of it as almost like
something like a wet vacuum that you would use in
your house, like if you use one to clean carpet,
for example. It's like that, but for DNA. After we
vacuum it up and we collect that liquid, we run
it through a filter where it basically catches the DNA
(11:23):
but allows all the other liquid to flow through, and
then we cut out that filter and that's what's set
forward in the laboratory.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
As suspected, there was DNA present on the towel.
Speaker 7 (11:38):
The DNA profile obtained from that sample with a mixture
of at least two individuals with at least one male contributor,
but unfortunately, due to the complexity of that sample, it's inconclusive.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
The likely cause.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
The towel had gone through the washing machine before it
was given over to police. The brown stain remained, but
the DNA that survived was just too degraded to be
of much use.
Speaker 7 (12:07):
We discussed it here internally, and we decided that we
wanted to do another sample and try a little bit
of a different strategy in the laboratory, try maybe some
other cleanup methods to try to see if we could
really get a cleaner sample that would get us a
better profile. When we did that, we obtained a mixture
(12:29):
of at least three individuals with at least one male contributor,
But unfortunately it was still too complex and it was
inconclusive for comparison purposes as a result.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
I've got to be honest here.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
At this point, Danny and I were both starting to
lose hope that science was going to solve this case.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
It just felt like one strikeout after another.
Speaker 7 (12:52):
Over time, DNA is going to break down, and you know,
you're kind of almost in a race with it. You
want to use the new technolog as best as possible,
but you don't want to use it if there's not
a good chance you might get a result. So if
we had this technology ten twenty years ago, then maybe
the results would have looked different. So I think time
(13:14):
has definitely been a factor here, and unfortunately a negative
factor here.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
But Danny Smith had been deep in the count before
and was still hopeful that there was one more DNA
sample he could still get, but it would mean getting
back inside the Florida State Prison and taking something from
the one guy least likely to give it up, gil Fernandez.
(13:50):
Danny's theory from the beginning was that Billy Haupurn was
overpowered by multiple assailants, and one of those men could
have been gil Fernandez.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
Could help prove it. Here's Danny.
Speaker 10 (14:05):
Well Go, being in the system, being in prison and
convicted of multiple felonies. He was swabbed, his DNA was taken,
and his DNA profile was uploaded into CODIS.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
The evidence that we have is good.
Speaker 10 (14:19):
For a one to one comparison, so I can't use
the DNA profile that's in CODIS to compare to the
evidence that we have, so I need to actually get
another physical sample for that comparison.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
But as he explains, that was easier said than done.
Speaker 10 (14:39):
Normally, in a situation like this, we would get a
warrant and a judge would sign it, and we would
be able to go ahead and collect his DNA and it.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Would be very simple.
Speaker 10 (14:50):
However, in this case, I don't have probable cause to
get that body warrant.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Bill was an ex cop, he was already doing life
in prison. He had zero incentive to volunteer his own
DNA to help an investigation that could potentially bring yet
another murder charge against him, maybe as many as five.
But as Christina explains, there was another way to get
(15:16):
his DNA, one that would leave Fernandez none the wiser.
Speaker 7 (15:22):
A secondary standard is something where we don't take it
directly off of something, but it's something that if we
get a single source DNA profile, you know there's a
reasonable expectation that it would come from that individual. So
you know, police officers, for example, if they can't get
a warrant for someone's DNA, they might try to collect
(15:44):
discarded items like a cigarette butt or a water bottle
or a coffee cup.
Speaker 10 (15:51):
He's been rafered for thirty plus years, and the idea
would be to work with the Office of the Inspector
General and see if there's a way that we can
surrepiciously obtain an abandoned sample without him knowing.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
But as you can imagine, there were significant obstacles to
this approach too. The guy has been in this particular
prison camp for thirty years and believe it or not.
Even a convicted killer like Gil Fernandez makes friends inside the.
Speaker 10 (16:29):
Fact that he's ben in prison, he has a relationship
with the correction's officers. Presumably, I don't know if.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
He's going to get tipped off.
Speaker 10 (16:40):
I don't know that if I try to get an
abandoned sample from him, that somebody's going to tip him off.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
And remember, Danny had a strong suspicion that it was
Gill's connections in law enforcement that enabled some of his
worst crimes in the past, So what was reason to
assume that being tipped off was again a possibility.
Speaker 10 (17:07):
If he knows that we're coming for his DNA, there's
a very good possibility that he's going to try to
have another inmates DNA on this abandoned sample, and then
when that's tested, it'll come back to someone who has
no association with this case, or maybe not even South Florida,
(17:30):
and that'll throw a big monkey wrench into the investigation.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
As long as Fernandez was in lock up in Rayford,
getting a trusted DNA sample would be next to impossible.
But then, finally, a stroke of incredible good fortune.
Speaker 8 (17:50):
I know you just texted me to tell me to
jump on a call and to record it. You had
some pretty big news, Scott. You're not going to believe this.
I randomly, as I normally do, I pulled up Gill's
Department of Corrections page, and he's been moved.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
Moved within the prison, moved to a block.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
He's no longer in rape.
Speaker 10 (18:17):
He's he's in a facility called Tomoka, which I just
looked it up.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
It's in Daytona Beach.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
After thirty years of the same prison camp. Gil Fernandez
had been moved. But why and why now? And didn't
have anything to do with this new investigation.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
I think this is kind of stunning.
Speaker 9 (18:42):
I mean, is there a possibility that he has struck
some kind of deal with the Feds that maybe they
moved him or did he did he get into a fight?
Speaker 8 (18:53):
Is his life in danger?
Speaker 9 (18:54):
I mean, what what are I mean? What are some
of the post I mean, what are the possibilities?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I mean, he's definitely closer. It's Daytona Beach.
Speaker 10 (19:02):
It's a few hours away as opposed to six hour drive,
so he's definitely closer to the family. I don't know
if he somehow cut a deal. I don't know if
it had anything to do with my visit with him,
the fact that he is now in a new place,
he may not have those relationships with the guards, with
(19:24):
the corrections officers that he had in Rayford, and I
may be able to kind of slide this operation in
a little easier.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
You might have heard it in my voice, but my
concern was that somehow Danny's visit had spooked Gil into
cutting a deal with federal investigators and cutting Danny out
of gaining a potential confession. You know, the rivalry you
hear about local cops and the Feds.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
It's real.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
But Danny did some calling around and was able to
conclude that, as far as he could tell, Gill moved
to a new prison had been in the works for
a while, which means it was entirely coincidental, not a
result from some unwanted attention from a cold case detective.
Speaker 10 (20:13):
It looks like he had been working this process well
before I even met him. So the fact that he
was moved from Rayford to Tomoka really has nothing to
do with my visit. And he's not working a deal.
He has no no plea agreement, nothing going on. He's
not ratting on anyone that I know of.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Just it was a coincidence, and that means Fernandez will
likely not be an alert for any surreptitious efforts to.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
Gain his abandoned DNA.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
More importantly, he likely hasn't had the time to establish
the same relationships with inmates and possibly even correction officers
that could potentially tip them off to these efforts. The
move to a new prison was intended to be a
reward for good behavior and a way for him to
finish his sentence closer to his family. But even for
(21:06):
an ex cop and model prisoner, being the new guy
has its strawbacks.
Speaker 10 (21:12):
The initial plan was simply to have a couple of
different officers or investigators that work in the prison to
do some surveillance follow him, hopefully not be seen that
they're following him, watching him, checking his daily routine, basically
like a pattern of life, and then once they get
(21:35):
a pattern of life, figure out a way that they
would be able to take some kind of something abandoned
from him, a sample abandoned without his knowledge.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
But as it turns out, Danny had more allies inside
than Gilded, and the correction officers had to moke a
prison owed their new prisoner no favors.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
They just wanted to make sure it was done right.
Speaker 10 (22:01):
Part of the issue that was reported back to me
was that he's going to know that they went through
his specific bunk. And when I was told that, I said,
that's great. Actually, when you guys, when you leave and
you leave the bunk and you walk past all the
inmates that are sitting there trying to figure out what's
going on, make sure that he sees the evidence bag
(22:23):
walk past him.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Everyone's going to see the evidence bag.
Speaker 10 (22:25):
No one's going to know exactly what it's about until
Gil gets back to his bunk and he sees that
his stuff was rising through.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
It was a bit of gamesmanship that Danny hoped would
pay dividends, both practical and emotional.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
I wanted to elicit a response.
Speaker 10 (22:44):
I was hoping that, first of all, maybe get him thinking,
Maybe turn the cruise on him a little bit and
get him nervous, have him realize that now we have
his DNA and there's really nothing he can do about it.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Danny had played nice on his first visit to Guilfernande's
in prison, careful not to spook him into a tight
lipped retreat. So this was a dramatic and clear change
in approach, one that would surely not go unnoticed by Gil.
As Sherlock Holmes famously said, the game was afoot. In
(23:31):
search of a new DNA sample to compare with evidence
from the helper and crime scene, Danny had his sights
on gathering personal items from guil Fernandez's new prison cell. Thankfully,
Danny had the full cooperation of correctional officers at the
Tomocha prison who actually had some ideas of their own
and how to execute the operation, not just effectively, but
(23:55):
with a little panache.
Speaker 10 (23:58):
They actually had everyone in his pot or his area,
were in their bunks and their I guess space, and
they ultimately pulled the fire alarm and herded them into
another room kind of around the corner away. And when
they did that, they had other investigators that were more
(24:18):
or less hidden around the corner or in another room.
And as soon as that room was empty, his area,
his bunk was empty, they went in there and they
were able to remove three items.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Specifically, the officers removed a toothbrush, a coffee mug, and
a used water bottle, items most likely to contain gills,
saliva or touch DNA.
Speaker 10 (24:43):
They gave me call and they said that everything was
a success. They did everything appropriately. They had tann of
custody and they packaged all those individually and then they
fed ex them next day over to us.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Upon receipt of the items, hand delivered the new evidence
to Christina at DNA Labs International. After the initial test,
she was confident there was a good viable sample.
Speaker 7 (25:11):
We received a toothbrush, a coffee cup, and a water
bottle from Gilbert Fernandez, and in this case it only
indicated one male contributor. So because of that, we operate
under the assumption that the DNA profile is from Gilbert Fernandez.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
As for the comparison sample, Danny had lost a lot
of confidence in using that DNA mixture that was collected
from the electrical tape, but so far it was all
he had. Unfortunately, those low expectations proved all too realistic.
Christina's test determined that there was a low probability of
(25:53):
a match between gil fernandez fresh DNA sample and the
DNA profile created from the tapes sample.
Speaker 7 (26:01):
So the analysis provided limited support for the proposition that
mister Fernandez is a contributor. Just to give you kind
of perspective on what that means, limited support is the
bottom of our scale. Anything from two to ninety nine
is limited support, and this is two point eight.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
But Danny had to look at the bright side. He
now had a good sample or standard of Gills DNA
that was strong enough for a one to one comparison
to any DNA he may be able to find in
the future.
Speaker 7 (26:35):
With this much contact, with this much blood, I would
say there's a reasonable expectation that you would be able
to find his DNA there.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
But it does raise an important question, what if gil
Fernandez was not there when Billy was killed? What if
this investigation has been on the wrong path from the beginning?
Who else in Gill's crew may have helped to execute
this deadly plan? Somebody who was not in jail or,
in the case of high note Collier and berg Christie
(27:06):
no longer alive.
Speaker 11 (27:09):
I mean, obviously, the name that would stand out as
someone that I would say probably could have been there
is Mike Carbone.
Speaker 12 (27:17):
Michael Bone was a heartless human being.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Michael Carbone, the five time convicted felon that had testified
in court that he had participated in one of Burtingill's
deadly shakedowns.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
The nineteen eighty three scheme to.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Rob three drug dealers of over one million dollars in
cocaine that ended with three people being shot and dumped
in the Everglades off of Danger Road.
Speaker 13 (27:44):
Fernandez and Christy were arrested after Michael Carbone told police
he saw the victims shot to death that night in
the Everglades. The defense says Carbone was the trigger man
and lied to police to protect himself.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Wasn't it possible that this was not carbon Jones's only
time acting as Gill's muscle. Wasn't it possible that before
he testified against Christy and Fernandez that he had played
a part in the murders of Billy Halpern, Mitch Hall,
and Charlondo Drought, maybe even Jimmy high Note and Harry Collier.
(28:18):
Could Michael Carbone be the missing link in solving all
five murders?
Speaker 10 (28:25):
After the press conference, I can easily say that I
got more calls on this particular case than I did
from any case and any other press conferences combined. I
got calls from all over the country, people that somehow
had a connection to.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Either Gill or Billy or some.
Speaker 10 (28:49):
Of the other victims. Mitch Hall Jimmy high Note, Harry Collier.
Many of the calls kept mentioning one particular name, which
is a name that was already on my radar. Then
that was Mike Carbone.
Speaker 14 (29:05):
We can't show you Michael Carbone's face because he's on
the federal witness protection program. Carbone's testimony against Gilbert Fernandez
and Hubert Christie. We'll keep him from going to jail
on unrelated charges.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Obviously, Carbone had been close enough to guil Fernandez to
be asked to be part of a deadly robbery with
a huge payoff. So common sense dictates that this would
not have been Carbone's first time working with Fernandez and
Christie's crew or the last.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
But what else did we know about Michael Carbone.
Speaker 11 (29:40):
Mike Colbone was a collector. It was a trupid collector
down here. It was the muscle behind a lot of
drug dealing. Wherever he went, there was a legal activity,
there was trouble.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
This is the anonymous tipster who called Danny after the
press conference, and if you remember, we are disguising his
voice to protect his identity.
Speaker 11 (30:04):
Mike was just one of those guys who would never smile.
He had this if you look like a shark. You
could look in their eyes. There's like no life, no feeling,
there's no emotions behind it. That's where Mark Carbone was.
He was just a young, ruthless guy.
Speaker 5 (30:25):
Like the rest of Gil's crew. Carbone was also a
regular at the Apollo.
Speaker 12 (30:31):
He was intimidating.
Speaker 11 (30:32):
He had a chest like a barrel, just arms and
a chest that were massive, and he would just look
at you and you could just feel it. This guy
is cold, calculated, no soul.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
But according to this informant, Carbone's muscles were not just
all show. He had the violent temperament to go with them.
Speaker 12 (30:55):
Mike Carbon was just aggressive. He was hostile.
Speaker 11 (30:58):
If someone would mess with him, he would have no
problem just walking up to him and grabbing him, throwing
and punching him.
Speaker 12 (31:06):
He had no problem doing that.
Speaker 11 (31:07):
I just don't remember too many people that were without ordness.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
In other words, he and Gil Fernandez were cut from
the same cloth.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
But it was also always clear who was the boss.
Here's Mark Lopez.
Speaker 15 (31:24):
Gil was also the kind of guy that gave direction
like I wouldn't at all be shocked if Carbone was
a guy who was a trigger man. Might have been
a Gil's direction, and.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
While we don't know the specifics of their working relationship,
investigation revealed the following timeline. In nineteen eighty three, Carbone
and Fernandez together ambushed three men who were held at gunpoint, robbed,
and then executed on Danger Road. In nineteen eighty six,
Billy Halpern was ambushed, potentially robbed of the contents of
(31:58):
his safe, and then killed. In nineteen eighty seven, Mitch
Hall and his girlfriend were killed, and a week later
two of Gil's own crew, Jimmy Hinoe and Harry Collier,
met the same fate. But it was not until nineteen
ninety after Michael Carbone was arrested and was facing yet
another felony extortion charge, that he offered to testify against
(32:23):
Fernandez and Christi in the Danger Road triple homicide. In
other words, he waited seven years to come clean, which
sounds less like he found a conscience and more like
he was trying to stay one step ahead of the law.
In Gil Fernandez, here's Dave Fassano.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
And everyone feels that they were killing all of the
anyone that could turn on them, and we all and
the rumor was that that's why Mike Carbone finally squealed
because he felt that he was the last one left
and they were going to murder him, so he decided
(33:03):
to wrap them out before they could kill him.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
A deal with prosecutors earned him immunity and a new
life and the witness protection program, but did it also
let him avoid blame for multiple other murders.
Speaker 15 (33:18):
You have to realize that in that situation, guys flip,
you know, pretty easy when they realize they're facing major
time and they're going to give you anything they can
to lighten their load. So if you know Carbone was
the shooter by chance, like it's one guy's word against
the others.
Speaker 16 (33:38):
Basically, needless to say, it was time to track down
Michael Carbone, an alleged gangster and informant and maybe even
a killer.
Speaker 5 (33:50):
It wouldn't be easy.
Speaker 10 (33:53):
I can say that in my career I've never actually
had to track somebody down that was in witness p.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
And Danny couldn't expect any help from the federal agency
that had promised to keep him hidden.
Speaker 5 (34:07):
Danny was on his own.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
No one had seen or heard from Carbone in thirty
four years since the days immediately following Fernandez and Christie's sentencing,
and since Carbone had no doubt changed his name, Danny
wasn't even sure what he was looking for.
Speaker 10 (34:27):
So it was frustrating to run names data, birth socials,
family names through the various databases and still come up
with different This could be him, this could be him.
He could be in California, he could be deceased, he
can be overseas. So I got so much different information
(34:48):
it was really hard to pinpoint exactly where he was.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
But Danny had more than a few contacts in law
enforcement and some were willing to help out a fellow
brother and blue I did.
Speaker 10 (35:02):
I had a good friend of mine who's a retired
homicide detective who now is working as a priate investigator,
contacted him and gave him what I had and asked.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Him to do some research and see if he.
Speaker 10 (35:18):
Can't help me out and narrow down exactly where Carbone is.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
While interviewing Billy's friends and people associated with the Apollo,
we had heard all kinds of rumors about Carbones whereabouts.
Some said he was out west, while others suggested he
fled the country and living the life of a John Doe,
while others, like our anonymous tipster had heard that it
was actually back in South Florida, running his mouth like
(35:46):
nothing had ever happened.
Speaker 12 (35:49):
An individual who contacted me today told me.
Speaker 11 (35:52):
That he he said that Carbone was recently down within
a few months ago at Hollywood Beach, exposing himself in
a sense after being in the witness.
Speaker 12 (36:03):
Protection program all this time. That has some level of arrogance.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
So Danny hit the streets, asked around, even rattled some cages,
but unfortunately he had little success running down those leads. Thankfully,
Danny's PI buddy had much better luck.
Speaker 10 (36:24):
My buddy called me and he was excited. He said,
I got him. I'm pretty sure I got him.
Speaker 12 (36:30):
Now.
Speaker 10 (36:31):
I had old photographs of Michael Carbone from back in
the eighties, and my buddy had new photographs, and putting
these two pictures side by side, there was no doubt
he had found them. We were able to get his
new name and where he lives, who he lives with,
So that right there solved the year long issue of
(36:57):
where is Michael Carbone.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
We find found him.
Speaker 12 (37:02):
Gan.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
He's been working this cold case for more than eighteen months.
He'd run through countless scenarios and cast his net far
and wide. But this felt like the big fish. Now
it was time to reel him in Cold Blooded. The
(37:29):
Apollo Jim Murders is a production of iHeart Podcasts and
Authentic Wave Media. Scott Weinberger, Kevin Bennett, and Walker LeMond.
Speaker 5 (37:39):
Are executive producers.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Sabrina Sire is our line producer, scoring sound design and
mixing by Mark lamoorg Z. For iHeart Podcasts, Christina Everett
is executive producer, and David Wasserman is brand marketing manager.
And with special thanks to the Miramar Police Department, Chief
(38:02):
del Rich Moss, p Io Tanya Ardaz
Speaker 5 (38:06):
And Detective Susie Smith
My dad was a police officer.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
He actually worked at Nearmark Police Department for seven years
when I was a kid growing up, and then he
ultimately left and he went to Metro Dad Police Department,
which happens to be the same department that Gil Fernandez
worked for.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
By March of twenty twenty four, Detective Danny Smith had
been the lead investigator on the Billy Halpern cold case
for eighteen months, knowing that his father had been a
Miramar police officer in nineteen eighty six at the time
of the original investigation, I asked Danny if there was
anything he would like to ask his father if he
(00:40):
was still around.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
I'm curious as to the general sense of maybe urgency
on clearing it.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Was this something where it was all hands on deck.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Would they just say put all your stuff down with
everyone to work this or was it just like another
murder violent eighties and we'll do what we can and
then we'll move on.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Over the course of his own investigation, Danny's been able
to verify a lot of what was in the original
case file. The detectives that were Billy's case in nineteen
eighty six were thorough and buy the book, but with
everything that we've learned about this case, it still bothers
us that Billy Hoppin's murder was never cleared and that
(01:21):
his killers were never ideed or held accountable.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I think that there was a small portion of that
where the investigators knew who were involved, they knew the
crew that was involved, and they felt good getting at
the very least kill Fernandez and Bert Christie indicted and
then found guilty.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
That's a sentiment shared by Billy's friend Dave Fosano.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
I think that it was true that they didn't pursue
anything else because they're doing life, so that the cops
and detectives just didn't pursue anything else. I believe that.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
Do you think that's right?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
No, because those families don't have clothing. Well, I'm almost
ready to cry, I am.
Speaker 6 (02:15):
I'm just picturning. He was such a nice guy. I
loved him like a brother. He was very good to me.
We had a lot of good times.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
I wish he was alive today because we would still
be by my side and he'd be so proud of me.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Jil Fernandez and Burt Christie's conviction on the Danger Road
murders brought an end to a complicated investigation, but it
also left some important unanswered questions, like who stormed into
Billy Halpern's town home, strangled him and then cut his
throat so deeply he was nearly decapitated, What did he
actually know that made him a target for such a
(02:57):
brutal murder? And is it possible that someone within law
enforcement had tipped off the ex cop Gil Fernandez about
which members of the Apollo Jim posed a threat to
his criminal enterprise.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
Danny was determined to keep digging.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
I'm Scott Weinberger, investigative journalist and former deputy sheriff, and
this is cold blooded the Apollo Jim murders. Harry Collier
was a reputed hit man from the Northeast, with an
obsession with knives and a close relationship with Gil Fernandez
(03:38):
and Bert Christie, and in nineteen eighty six, he was
also married with his first child on the way. When
Detective Danny Smith spoke to his widow, she confirmed that
Collier's behavior had become erratic and suspicious in the months
around Billy's murder and leading up to his own, whether
(04:00):
that was due to his steroid use or his new
job working for gil Fernandez doing what he called private investigations.
She was never sure, but she told Danny that there
were telltale signs that he was involved in something criminal.
Guns stashed at their home, new cars, secretive late night
(04:20):
phone calls, and even talk of one last big score,
one that Harry Collier never returned from. But Collier's widow
also made Danny aware of a piece of evidence that
may prove critical improving his involvement in Billy Halpern's murder,
a blood stained towel she discovered in her home shortly
(04:44):
after her husband was killed. It felt like a long shot,
but if forensic analysts could pull Billy's DNA from the
forty year old stains, it would be the first direct
connection between Collier and the crime scene and all but
proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Collier was indeed one
(05:05):
of Billy's killers.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
It's been almost a year that we've been actively involved
in this case.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
Christina Savito at DNA Labs International is an expert in
collecting and identifying DNA, and her dedication to this case
has made her an invaluable member of the team.
Speaker 7 (05:27):
The first piece of evidence that we looked at back
in March of last year, were two pieces of electrical tape,
so there was electrical tape from the left wrist and
then electrical tape from the right wrist, which had also
a rubber glove tip on it as well.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Danny thought the electrical tape and the glove tip would
certainly identify the men that bound and killed Billy Halper,
but as we've learned, it's never that easy.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
The DNA sample recovered was just too small.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
All but Danny's hopes were lifted when Christina combined the
samples from the tape and the glove and the DNA
mixture indicated the presence of three unknown individuals.
Speaker 7 (06:13):
When you have a mixture with multiple people, we have
a software that we use. It's called star Mix. It
helps us to resolve some of these mixtures and at
times it can pull out individual profiles for the contributors
or the people in that mixture. Unfortunately, for this sample,
(06:36):
it wasn't able to pull out a specific profile for
the people or the individuals in that mixture. However, it's
still suitable for comparison, so any standards that we get
at any point in time can be compared to this DNA.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Profile in other words, this was not just a matter
of dropping the DNA profile into codis and having it
spit out the name of Billy's killer. We would need
a one to one comparison between this DNA profile and
a potential suspect. But here was the problem. Danny didn't
have the DNA from any of the men at the
(07:13):
top of his suspect list, the men he suspected of
attacking Billy at his home, Harry Collier, Jimmy high Note,
or Gil Fernandez. The blood samples on the spot cards
from high Note and Collier stored by Browerck County ended
up being too degraded and yielded no viable DNA. Fingernail
(07:37):
clippings from Billy Haupern showed no evidence of foreign tissue
or blood, and strands of the killer's hair that was
supposed to be sealed in an evidence envelope had mysteriously
gone missing. But the DNA profile Christina had developed still
had crucial evidentiary value.
Speaker 7 (07:57):
Because this is a sample that is suitable for compares garrison.
At this point we have that we just need additional
standards to compare to in order to figure out who
might be contributing to that DNA profile.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
The solution was straightforward.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Danny needed to find a way to get a fresh
DNA sample from suspects that were either unwilling, missing, or dead.
Speaker 7 (08:23):
That actually happens more than you would think, so, especially
with these cool cases. You know, people pass away and
they're still suspects, right, and you can't go out and
get a buckle swab because they're gone. And maybe you
could go out and exoom their bones and try to
get a reference sample that way, but that's obviously time
consuming and it's costly. So one option we have is
(08:46):
using the DNA profile from a relative, and.
Speaker 5 (08:50):
So that's exactly what Danny did.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Collier's adult son consented to a cheek swab and agreed
to submit his DNA for comparison.
Speaker 7 (09:00):
Able to pull out a DNA profile and we're able
to compare it, we can run something like a paternity
statistic and say, okay, well this person can't be ruled out.
Speaker 3 (09:11):
Christina developed a DNA profile of Harry Collier's son, and
Danny and I held our breaths waiting for the results.
Speaker 7 (09:21):
So we compared him to the electrical tape sample and
he was excluded as a contributor to the mixed DNA profile.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
With almost certainty, Harry Collier had been excluded as a
contributor to the DNA found on the electrical tape used
to tie up Billy halper It was a letdown, for sure,
But maybe it just meant that Collier never touched the tape.
Maybe he just held the knife, And now we might
(09:51):
even have the proof that he was in the room.
Speaker 8 (09:56):
And then there was also a white towel which was
collected from Collier's wife at the time.
Speaker 9 (10:04):
Who apparently told us that he brought it home from
on one night and it was full of blood.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
My hope and Danny's hope was this was the hail Mary,
so to speak.
Speaker 7 (10:17):
So in the seventh report, we collected a sample from
the right from both sides of the towel.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
After all, if the bloodstained towel that Collier's widow found
contained any of Billy Halpern's DNA, it would prove a
direct link between Collier and the helping crime scene. Why
else would Collier be in possession of a towel containing
a murder victim's blood unless he was there wiping the
victim's blood from his hands, his face, or even the
(10:48):
murder weapon itself. The towel in question had been stored
at the Briar Sheriff's office. Danny took custody of the
evidence and delivered it to Christina.
Speaker 7 (11:01):
We used a collection device known as the end back,
and I like to think of it as almost like
something like a wet vacuum that you would use in
your house, like if you use one to clean carpet,
for example. It's like that, but for DNA. After we
vacuum it up and we collect that liquid, we run
it through a filter where it basically catches the DNA
(11:23):
but allows all the other liquid to flow through, and
then we cut out that filter and that's what's set
forward in the laboratory.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
As suspected, there was DNA present on the towel.
Speaker 7 (11:38):
The DNA profile obtained from that sample with a mixture
of at least two individuals with at least one male contributor,
but unfortunately, due to the complexity of that sample, it's inconclusive.
Speaker 5 (11:52):
The likely cause.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
The towel had gone through the washing machine before it
was given over to police. The brown stain remained, but
the DNA that survived was just too degraded to be
of much use.
Speaker 7 (12:07):
We discussed it here internally, and we decided that we
wanted to do another sample and try a little bit
of a different strategy in the laboratory, try maybe some
other cleanup methods to try to see if we could
really get a cleaner sample that would get us a
better profile. When we did that, we obtained a mixture
(12:29):
of at least three individuals with at least one male contributor,
But unfortunately it was still too complex and it was
inconclusive for comparison purposes as a result.
Speaker 5 (12:40):
I've got to be honest here.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
At this point, Danny and I were both starting to
lose hope that science was going to solve this case.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
It just felt like one strikeout after another.
Speaker 7 (12:52):
Over time, DNA is going to break down, and you know,
you're kind of almost in a race with it. You
want to use the new technolog as best as possible,
but you don't want to use it if there's not
a good chance you might get a result. So if
we had this technology ten twenty years ago, then maybe
the results would have looked different. So I think time
(13:14):
has definitely been a factor here, and unfortunately a negative
factor here.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
But Danny Smith had been deep in the count before
and was still hopeful that there was one more DNA
sample he could still get, but it would mean getting
back inside the Florida State Prison and taking something from
the one guy least likely to give it up, gil Fernandez.
(13:50):
Danny's theory from the beginning was that Billy Haupurn was
overpowered by multiple assailants, and one of those men could
have been gil Fernandez.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
Could help prove it. Here's Danny.
Speaker 10 (14:05):
Well Go, being in the system, being in prison and
convicted of multiple felonies. He was swabbed, his DNA was taken,
and his DNA profile was uploaded into CODIS.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
The evidence that we have is good.
Speaker 10 (14:19):
For a one to one comparison, so I can't use
the DNA profile that's in CODIS to compare to the
evidence that we have, so I need to actually get
another physical sample for that comparison.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
But as he explains, that was easier said than done.
Speaker 10 (14:39):
Normally, in a situation like this, we would get a
warrant and a judge would sign it, and we would
be able to go ahead and collect his DNA and it.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Would be very simple.
Speaker 10 (14:50):
However, in this case, I don't have probable cause to
get that body warrant.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Bill was an ex cop, he was already doing life
in prison. He had zero incentive to volunteer his own
DNA to help an investigation that could potentially bring yet
another murder charge against him, maybe as many as five.
But as Christina explains, there was another way to get
(15:16):
his DNA, one that would leave Fernandez none the wiser.
Speaker 7 (15:22):
A secondary standard is something where we don't take it
directly off of something, but it's something that if we
get a single source DNA profile, you know there's a
reasonable expectation that it would come from that individual. So
you know, police officers, for example, if they can't get
a warrant for someone's DNA, they might try to collect
(15:44):
discarded items like a cigarette butt or a water bottle
or a coffee cup.
Speaker 10 (15:51):
He's been rafered for thirty plus years, and the idea
would be to work with the Office of the Inspector
General and see if there's a way that we can
surrepiciously obtain an abandoned sample without him knowing.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
But as you can imagine, there were significant obstacles to
this approach too. The guy has been in this particular
prison camp for thirty years and believe it or not.
Even a convicted killer like Gil Fernandez makes friends inside the.
Speaker 10 (16:29):
Fact that he's ben in prison, he has a relationship
with the correction's officers. Presumably, I don't know if.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
He's going to get tipped off.
Speaker 10 (16:40):
I don't know that if I try to get an
abandoned sample from him, that somebody's going to tip him off.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
And remember, Danny had a strong suspicion that it was
Gill's connections in law enforcement that enabled some of his
worst crimes in the past, So what was reason to
assume that being tipped off was again a possibility.
Speaker 10 (17:07):
If he knows that we're coming for his DNA, there's
a very good possibility that he's going to try to
have another inmates DNA on this abandoned sample, and then
when that's tested, it'll come back to someone who has
no association with this case, or maybe not even South Florida,
(17:30):
and that'll throw a big monkey wrench into the investigation.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
As long as Fernandez was in lock up in Rayford,
getting a trusted DNA sample would be next to impossible.
But then, finally, a stroke of incredible good fortune.
Speaker 8 (17:50):
I know you just texted me to tell me to
jump on a call and to record it. You had
some pretty big news, Scott. You're not going to believe this.
I randomly, as I normally do, I pulled up Gill's
Department of Corrections page, and he's been moved.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
Moved within the prison, moved to a block.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
He's no longer in rape.
Speaker 10 (18:17):
He's he's in a facility called Tomoka, which I just
looked it up.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
It's in Daytona Beach.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
After thirty years of the same prison camp. Gil Fernandez
had been moved. But why and why now? And didn't
have anything to do with this new investigation.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
I think this is kind of stunning.
Speaker 9 (18:42):
I mean, is there a possibility that he has struck
some kind of deal with the Feds that maybe they
moved him or did he did he get into a fight?
Speaker 8 (18:53):
Is his life in danger?
Speaker 9 (18:54):
I mean, what what are I mean? What are some
of the post I mean, what are the possibilities?
Speaker 1 (18:59):
I mean, he's definitely closer. It's Daytona Beach.
Speaker 10 (19:02):
It's a few hours away as opposed to six hour drive,
so he's definitely closer to the family. I don't know
if he somehow cut a deal. I don't know if
it had anything to do with my visit with him,
the fact that he is now in a new place,
he may not have those relationships with the guards, with
(19:24):
the corrections officers that he had in Rayford, and I
may be able to kind of slide this operation in
a little easier.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
You might have heard it in my voice, but my
concern was that somehow Danny's visit had spooked Gil into
cutting a deal with federal investigators and cutting Danny out
of gaining a potential confession. You know, the rivalry you
hear about local cops and the Feds.
Speaker 5 (19:52):
It's real.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
But Danny did some calling around and was able to
conclude that, as far as he could tell, Gill moved
to a new prison had been in the works for
a while, which means it was entirely coincidental, not a
result from some unwanted attention from a cold case detective.
Speaker 10 (20:13):
It looks like he had been working this process well
before I even met him. So the fact that he
was moved from Rayford to Tomoka really has nothing to
do with my visit. And he's not working a deal.
He has no no plea agreement, nothing going on. He's
not ratting on anyone that I know of.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Just it was a coincidence, and that means Fernandez will
likely not be an alert for any surreptitious efforts to.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
Gain his abandoned DNA.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
More importantly, he likely hasn't had the time to establish
the same relationships with inmates and possibly even correction officers
that could potentially tip them off to these efforts. The
move to a new prison was intended to be a
reward for good behavior and a way for him to
finish his sentence closer to his family. But even for
(21:06):
an ex cop and model prisoner, being the new guy
has its strawbacks.
Speaker 10 (21:12):
The initial plan was simply to have a couple of
different officers or investigators that work in the prison to
do some surveillance follow him, hopefully not be seen that
they're following him, watching him, checking his daily routine, basically
like a pattern of life, and then once they get
(21:35):
a pattern of life, figure out a way that they
would be able to take some kind of something abandoned
from him, a sample abandoned without his knowledge.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
But as it turns out, Danny had more allies inside
than Gilded, and the correction officers had to moke a
prison owed their new prisoner no favors.
Speaker 5 (21:57):
They just wanted to make sure it was done right.
Speaker 10 (22:01):
Part of the issue that was reported back to me
was that he's going to know that they went through
his specific bunk. And when I was told that, I said,
that's great. Actually, when you guys, when you leave and
you leave the bunk and you walk past all the
inmates that are sitting there trying to figure out what's
going on, make sure that he sees the evidence bag
(22:23):
walk past him.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Everyone's going to see the evidence bag.
Speaker 10 (22:25):
No one's going to know exactly what it's about until
Gil gets back to his bunk and he sees that
his stuff was rising through.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
It was a bit of gamesmanship that Danny hoped would
pay dividends, both practical and emotional.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
I wanted to elicit a response.
Speaker 10 (22:44):
I was hoping that, first of all, maybe get him thinking,
Maybe turn the cruise on him a little bit and
get him nervous, have him realize that now we have
his DNA and there's really nothing he can do about it.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
Danny had played nice on his first visit to Guilfernande's
in prison, careful not to spook him into a tight
lipped retreat. So this was a dramatic and clear change
in approach, one that would surely not go unnoticed by Gil.
As Sherlock Holmes famously said, the game was afoot. In
(23:31):
search of a new DNA sample to compare with evidence
from the helper and crime scene, Danny had his sights
on gathering personal items from guil Fernandez's new prison cell. Thankfully,
Danny had the full cooperation of correctional officers at the
Tomocha prison who actually had some ideas of their own
and how to execute the operation, not just effectively, but
(23:55):
with a little panache.
Speaker 10 (23:58):
They actually had everyone in his pot or his area,
were in their bunks and their I guess space, and
they ultimately pulled the fire alarm and herded them into
another room kind of around the corner away. And when
they did that, they had other investigators that were more
(24:18):
or less hidden around the corner or in another room.
And as soon as that room was empty, his area,
his bunk was empty, they went in there and they
were able to remove three items.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Specifically, the officers removed a toothbrush, a coffee mug, and
a used water bottle, items most likely to contain gills,
saliva or touch DNA.
Speaker 10 (24:43):
They gave me call and they said that everything was
a success. They did everything appropriately. They had tann of
custody and they packaged all those individually and then they
fed ex them next day over to us.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Upon receipt of the items, hand delivered the new evidence
to Christina at DNA Labs International. After the initial test,
she was confident there was a good viable sample.
Speaker 7 (25:11):
We received a toothbrush, a coffee cup, and a water
bottle from Gilbert Fernandez, and in this case it only
indicated one male contributor. So because of that, we operate
under the assumption that the DNA profile is from Gilbert Fernandez.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
As for the comparison sample, Danny had lost a lot
of confidence in using that DNA mixture that was collected
from the electrical tape, but so far it was all
he had. Unfortunately, those low expectations proved all too realistic.
Christina's test determined that there was a low probability of
(25:53):
a match between gil fernandez fresh DNA sample and the
DNA profile created from the tapes sample.
Speaker 7 (26:01):
So the analysis provided limited support for the proposition that
mister Fernandez is a contributor. Just to give you kind
of perspective on what that means, limited support is the
bottom of our scale. Anything from two to ninety nine
is limited support, and this is two point eight.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
But Danny had to look at the bright side. He
now had a good sample or standard of Gills DNA
that was strong enough for a one to one comparison
to any DNA he may be able to find in
the future.
Speaker 7 (26:35):
With this much contact, with this much blood, I would
say there's a reasonable expectation that you would be able
to find his DNA there.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
But it does raise an important question, what if gil
Fernandez was not there when Billy was killed? What if
this investigation has been on the wrong path from the beginning?
Who else in Gill's crew may have helped to execute
this deadly plan? Somebody who was not in jail or,
in the case of high note Collier and berg Christie
(27:06):
no longer alive.
Speaker 11 (27:09):
I mean, obviously, the name that would stand out as
someone that I would say probably could have been there
is Mike Carbone.
Speaker 12 (27:17):
Michael Bone was a heartless human being.
Speaker 3 (27:21):
Michael Carbone, the five time convicted felon that had testified
in court that he had participated in one of Burtingill's
deadly shakedowns.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
The nineteen eighty three scheme to.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Rob three drug dealers of over one million dollars in
cocaine that ended with three people being shot and dumped
in the Everglades off of Danger Road.
Speaker 13 (27:44):
Fernandez and Christy were arrested after Michael Carbone told police
he saw the victims shot to death that night in
the Everglades. The defense says Carbone was the trigger man
and lied to police to protect himself.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Wasn't it possible that this was not carbon Jones's only
time acting as Gill's muscle. Wasn't it possible that before
he testified against Christy and Fernandez that he had played
a part in the murders of Billy Halpern, Mitch Hall,
and Charlondo Drought, maybe even Jimmy high Note and Harry Collier.
(28:18):
Could Michael Carbone be the missing link in solving all
five murders?
Speaker 10 (28:25):
After the press conference, I can easily say that I
got more calls on this particular case than I did
from any case and any other press conferences combined. I
got calls from all over the country, people that somehow
had a connection to.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Either Gill or Billy or some.
Speaker 10 (28:49):
Of the other victims. Mitch Hall Jimmy high Note, Harry Collier.
Many of the calls kept mentioning one particular name, which
is a name that was already on my radar. Then
that was Mike Carbone.
Speaker 14 (29:05):
We can't show you Michael Carbone's face because he's on
the federal witness protection program. Carbone's testimony against Gilbert Fernandez
and Hubert Christie. We'll keep him from going to jail
on unrelated charges.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Obviously, Carbone had been close enough to guil Fernandez to
be asked to be part of a deadly robbery with
a huge payoff. So common sense dictates that this would
not have been Carbone's first time working with Fernandez and
Christie's crew or the last.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
But what else did we know about Michael Carbone.
Speaker 11 (29:40):
Mike Colbone was a collector. It was a trupid collector
down here. It was the muscle behind a lot of
drug dealing. Wherever he went, there was a legal activity,
there was trouble.
Speaker 3 (29:55):
This is the anonymous tipster who called Danny after the
press conference, and if you remember, we are disguising his
voice to protect his identity.
Speaker 11 (30:04):
Mike was just one of those guys who would never smile.
He had this if you look like a shark. You
could look in their eyes. There's like no life, no feeling,
there's no emotions behind it. That's where Mark Carbone was.
He was just a young, ruthless guy.
Speaker 5 (30:25):
Like the rest of Gil's crew. Carbone was also a
regular at the Apollo.
Speaker 12 (30:31):
He was intimidating.
Speaker 11 (30:32):
He had a chest like a barrel, just arms and
a chest that were massive, and he would just look
at you and you could just feel it. This guy
is cold, calculated, no soul.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
But according to this informant, Carbone's muscles were not just
all show. He had the violent temperament to go with them.
Speaker 12 (30:55):
Mike Carbon was just aggressive. He was hostile.
Speaker 11 (30:58):
If someone would mess with him, he would have no
problem just walking up to him and grabbing him, throwing
and punching him.
Speaker 12 (31:06):
He had no problem doing that.
Speaker 11 (31:07):
I just don't remember too many people that were without ordness.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
In other words, he and Gil Fernandez were cut from
the same cloth.
Speaker 5 (31:17):
But it was also always clear who was the boss.
Here's Mark Lopez.
Speaker 15 (31:24):
Gil was also the kind of guy that gave direction
like I wouldn't at all be shocked if Carbone was
a guy who was a trigger man. Might have been
a Gil's direction, and.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
While we don't know the specifics of their working relationship,
investigation revealed the following timeline. In nineteen eighty three, Carbone
and Fernandez together ambushed three men who were held at gunpoint, robbed,
and then executed on Danger Road. In nineteen eighty six,
Billy Halpern was ambushed, potentially robbed of the contents of
(31:58):
his safe, and then killed. In nineteen eighty seven, Mitch
Hall and his girlfriend were killed, and a week later
two of Gil's own crew, Jimmy Hinoe and Harry Collier,
met the same fate. But it was not until nineteen
ninety after Michael Carbone was arrested and was facing yet
another felony extortion charge, that he offered to testify against
(32:23):
Fernandez and Christi in the Danger Road triple homicide. In
other words, he waited seven years to come clean, which
sounds less like he found a conscience and more like
he was trying to stay one step ahead of the law.
In Gil Fernandez, here's Dave Fassano.
Speaker 4 (32:42):
And everyone feels that they were killing all of the
anyone that could turn on them, and we all and
the rumor was that that's why Mike Carbone finally squealed
because he felt that he was the last one left
and they were going to murder him, so he decided
(33:03):
to wrap them out before they could kill him.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
A deal with prosecutors earned him immunity and a new
life and the witness protection program, but did it also
let him avoid blame for multiple other murders.
Speaker 15 (33:18):
You have to realize that in that situation, guys flip,
you know, pretty easy when they realize they're facing major
time and they're going to give you anything they can
to lighten their load. So if you know Carbone was
the shooter by chance, like it's one guy's word against
the others.
Speaker 16 (33:38):
Basically, needless to say, it was time to track down
Michael Carbone, an alleged gangster and informant and maybe even
a killer.
Speaker 5 (33:50):
It wouldn't be easy.
Speaker 10 (33:53):
I can say that in my career I've never actually
had to track somebody down that was in witness p.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
And Danny couldn't expect any help from the federal agency
that had promised to keep him hidden.
Speaker 5 (34:07):
Danny was on his own.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
No one had seen or heard from Carbone in thirty
four years since the days immediately following Fernandez and Christie's sentencing,
and since Carbone had no doubt changed his name, Danny
wasn't even sure what he was looking for.
Speaker 10 (34:27):
So it was frustrating to run names data, birth socials,
family names through the various databases and still come up
with different This could be him, this could be him.
He could be in California, he could be deceased, he
can be overseas. So I got so much different information
(34:48):
it was really hard to pinpoint exactly where he was.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
But Danny had more than a few contacts in law
enforcement and some were willing to help out a fellow
brother and blue I did.
Speaker 10 (35:02):
I had a good friend of mine who's a retired
homicide detective who now is working as a priate investigator,
contacted him and gave him what I had and asked.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Him to do some research and see if he.
Speaker 10 (35:18):
Can't help me out and narrow down exactly where Carbone is.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
While interviewing Billy's friends and people associated with the Apollo,
we had heard all kinds of rumors about Carbones whereabouts.
Some said he was out west, while others suggested he
fled the country and living the life of a John Doe,
while others, like our anonymous tipster had heard that it
was actually back in South Florida, running his mouth like
(35:46):
nothing had ever happened.
Speaker 12 (35:49):
An individual who contacted me today told me.
Speaker 11 (35:52):
That he he said that Carbone was recently down within
a few months ago at Hollywood Beach, exposing himself in
a sense after being in the witness.
Speaker 12 (36:03):
Protection program all this time. That has some level of arrogance.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
So Danny hit the streets, asked around, even rattled some cages,
but unfortunately he had little success running down those leads. Thankfully,
Danny's PI buddy had much better luck.
Speaker 10 (36:24):
My buddy called me and he was excited. He said,
I got him. I'm pretty sure I got him.
Speaker 12 (36:30):
Now.
Speaker 10 (36:31):
I had old photographs of Michael Carbone from back in
the eighties, and my buddy had new photographs, and putting
these two pictures side by side, there was no doubt
he had found them. We were able to get his
new name and where he lives, who he lives with,
So that right there solved the year long issue of
(36:57):
where is Michael Carbone.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
We find found him.
Speaker 12 (37:02):
Gan.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
He's been working this cold case for more than eighteen months.
He'd run through countless scenarios and cast his net far
and wide. But this felt like the big fish. Now
it was time to reel him in Cold Blooded. The
(37:29):
Apollo Jim Murders is a production of iHeart Podcasts and
Authentic Wave Media. Scott Weinberger, Kevin Bennett, and Walker LeMond.
Speaker 5 (37:39):
Are executive producers.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Sabrina Sire is our line producer, scoring sound design and
mixing by Mark lamoorg Z. For iHeart Podcasts, Christina Everett
is executive producer, and David Wasserman is brand marketing manager.
And with special thanks to the Miramar Police Department, Chief
(38:02):
del Rich Moss, p Io Tanya Ardaz
Speaker 5 (38:06):
And Detective Susie Smith
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