July 31, 2025 • 33 mins
In her work as a therapist who focuses on trauma, Michelle Hernandez often speaks with patients – including law enforcement officers and other first responders – whose daily lives involve incredible stress. Enrique speaks to Michelle about the effects of PTSD and available resources, and the importance of communication and mutual respect between law enforcement and the people they interact with daily.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
From School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. This is Cold
Case Files Miami. I'm your host, Anddrique Santos this is
Cold Case Files Miami. So part of our goal on
this show is to have open conversations with professionals about
what law enforcement or first responders deal with behind the scenes.
(00:27):
Much of what we know or see of folks in
this profession.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
For media TV, and we want to humanize their experience.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
As you know, I'm a reserve Miami police officer and
the time I worked as a full time cop left
me marked in more ways than one. I've seen the
mental toll it can take and have experienced it firsthand.
There's a lot of stigma around asking for help, and
that's why I wanted to speak to my friend Michelle Ernandez.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Michelle Ernandez is a licensed mental.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Health counselor and psychotherapist who specializes in trauma. Started her
own private practice after spending nearly a decade working with
Christy House, an organization here in Miami that.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Treats children with severe trauma.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Today, her clients are of all ages, but she focuses
on people suffering from PTSD, anxiety and grief. Michelle, welcome,
Let's start with defining PTSD, how do you define it?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
So, post traumatic stress disorder is something that happens after
somebody experiences a traumatic event. Now this has evolved a
little bit, right. It used to be that we used
to think, well, it's this is from military that are
coming back from service. But the reality is that so
many people have experienced something that can be traumatic, from
a sexual abuse to a physical abuse, you know, victims
(01:47):
of crime. There's so many ways that someone can experience trauma.
I've seen levels of PTSD even after COVID for some
people it was that traumatic. So it's something that you know,
you experience something that's really traumatic, you can't stop thinking
about it. There's people that experience flashbacks, there's people that
are triggered, they're right back in that moment. They can
(02:09):
have trouble sleeping. It can impact their relationships, it can
impact their health. There's research that shows that prolonged exposure
two events that contribute to PTSD can actually shorten somebody's life.
And so I've dedicated my life to kind of working
with children in foster care, police fire, anybody that has
(02:31):
experienced PTSD. It's very important to me. I think that
quality of life is important, and I think it's important
for people to understand that even though you've seen really
terrible things or bad things, that there can be a
quality of life and that you can overcome some of
these things.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Talking about PTSD not only affecting life but shortening life.
Many people dealing with PTSD unfortunately end up committing so
side how much of that is a factor and how
worried are you with this factor?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
So it's interesting for the general population, the risk of
suicide is about seven to twelve percent for people with PTSD.
When you look at police and fire, those numbers are
really high. In the state of Florida, there is the
number is about twenty percent of suicide risk. The numbers
(03:29):
are pretty high in Florida, and we're not the highest.
I believe Montana, Alaska, and Wyoming have the highest incidents
of suicide. I think that it falls on our agencies
or community leaders. I know that it's difficult when we
lose a first responsor, but I have to say that
the past few months, it's happened a few times and
(03:51):
the conversations have been refreshing. In my opinion, I think
that the leaders of these agencies we have to have
an open conversation. Why are we losing senior people? Why
do they feel, after dedicating their life to their community
that suicide is the answer? How much pain are they
in and what are we missing? How can we help them?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
So I think it's also important to remember that it's
not just new recruits who might struggle with mental health
issues right well, people starting their job, in the middle
of their job, towards the end of their careers.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
This also affects.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Veterans, like like like you're explaining, and this affects the family.
How can we identify and deal with a loved one
that's dealing with PTSD.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
So I think open communication is always the important thing, right.
I think it's it's lovely, and I think a lot
of people think, oh, I married my hero. They're a
first responder. And I feel like first responders oftentimes don't
want to bring that burden home. My partner can't. I
don't want to share that what I say today with them.
(05:01):
I don't want to share that I saw a little
child drown or that I wasn't able to save somebody
from a gunshot wound, or that there was a terrible
car accident. They want to kind of keep that to
themselves and maybe share it with other first responders. So
I think as a spouse of a first responder, or
a partner, an intimate partner, or even just parents siblings,
(05:22):
asking your person, are you okay? You don't have to
give me the details of what you have experienced, but
how are you doing? How are you coping? How can
we support you? Right? I think also giving first responders
a breather when they walk through the door. You know,
oftentimes we want them to jump back in into family life.
(05:43):
And I don't know what this person saw while they
were on shift, so maybe they didn't need a minute
to regroup, right, and then kind of jump back into too,
whatever's happening in the household.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Let's talk about the stigma a little bit. There are
there many studies, Yeah, and you've mentioned some numbers as
well as that this takes high rates of mental health
issues among police and first responder uh and much higher
than the general public.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Do you think law enforcement officers and first responders are
encouraged internally within their police departments, within their circles to
talk about these issues?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Is there enough support for them? Are we failing them?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I think I think we have to understand them. I
think I'll speak to providers. So let's start with providers.
So if you're a provider, and you and you're a
mental health provider, you treat PTSD, it's imperative that you
understand this subsection of our population. Right. You have to
understand how police talk. You have to understand how firefighters talk,
(06:40):
you their lingo, their language. It's also important to note
that first responders, police and fire experience PTSD differently. A
police a police officer can be very solitary. They're in
their car, they might have somebody that's in their in
their same district that they work with, right or somebody
that they body up with. But firefighters go back to
(07:01):
their fire station and they can kind of hash some
of this stuff out. And so we have to understand
that we're also everybody's first responders. But they're all so different.
Just like dispatchers. Dispatchers are getting these raw calls and
there's no filter. They're getting these raw calls. If somebody's
screaming and yelling and they're trying to help this person.
They're trying to relay that information to whoever's responding, and
(07:25):
they experience BTSC differently. And so I think it's important
to hold that space to support them. I can speak
to Miami, I think culturally right for Hispanics and maybe
for other minorities. The stigma of I'm not crazy. I
don't need to talk to anybody. You don't need to
be crazy. You've chosen a vocation that is admirable and
(07:47):
it's beautiful, but it comes with a cost, right your
own sense of being, your sense of mental health, becoming
a little bit jaded about the world. And so I
think it's important to have open spaces where people can
talk about these things.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Okay, so talking about this with your buddies, with your
peers on the force can be helpful. But some fear
that if they take it to the next level and
speak to an expert like you, and if what's shared
is a little too dark, that might threaten their job,
their career, and their families.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
There's definitely a fear of are they going to take
my gun? Are they going to take me off the
fire truck? Am I going to be put on dust duty?
If I share these concerns. In my opinion, I feel
like we need providers that are very specialized and also
that are not attached to the agency. So standalone, I
(08:45):
don't have to answer to the fire department, I don't
have to answer to the police department. I can hold
this space for my client while also having those serious
conversations of when do you need a break, should you
still be working? Do you need a time out, but
not having that fear of if I share too much,
is this immediately going to be reported to my boss?
(09:07):
And I think that that's helpful.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
So what you're describing outside third party not your agency?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Are you describing union?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Uh? It could be the union. You know, every union
works differently. I know, I think locally the PBA does
a great job of connecting people with third parties. It's
not necessarily something that's going to go right back to
the police department. You know. I'm not talking about you
were involved in a shooting and now they're doing an
investigation the way that they do because you just start
(09:36):
your firearm. That's normal, right, that has to be done.
I'm talking about. This is not specific to one incident.
This is a culmination of I just got on the
forest and I don't know how to deal with this,
or I've been on the force for ten years and
I can't deal with it anymore. I need somebody where
I can where I can kind of talk about these things.
(09:56):
I do think we need third party people that are qualified,
that are not necessarily linked back to the agencies. I
spoke locally to do different people, one with the fire department,
one with a county police who told me that when
people are in the academy, they kind of brush over
the topic of PTSD. Now imagine you have recruits that
(10:18):
are put through these academies, right, which are intense physically, emotionally,
and so I wonder how much of them are filtering that.
I do think that there are. There's some grants in
motion at this time, and what they want to do
is follow This is specific to the fire department. They
want to follow people. You just got on board, all right,
(10:40):
So let's have a conversation in six months, in a
year and see how you're adjusting. I loved that idea.
I think it's fantastic of telling people this is not
you're going to see a therapist once. This is throughout
your career. Let's do some check ins, right, Let's do
a wellness check and see how you doing mentally. Have
you even asked yourself how am I doing mentally because
(11:02):
some of us don't do that, We don't even check
in with ourselves.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Let's talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Do you think that separation between work and home life
is important to maintain? And how do you how can
first responders that are listening right now, what would you
say to them that they're looking for that, for that
healthy balance.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
So I believe that work life balance is extremely important
when we're looking at first responders. How do we help
them do that? When they drove by a particular corner
and they can remember an accident that was on that corner,
they can remember where they arrested someone. Some people don't
live where they police, but a lot of people do.
(11:40):
And you know if you do, if you choose to
live in the same city where you're policing, you do
have to kind of be be mindful of that. Are
these triggers? Oh I remember where I responded to a
call of a pool and a little kid drowned, that
it was right on the street, And so understanding that
these are to be triggers, and how to prepare for that? Meaning,
(12:04):
how do you talk about that? And how do you
understand that this number one, this is a vocation so
processing a lot of your guilt. The reality is you're
not going to save everybody. The reality is, in the
beginning of your career, you might make mistakes that I
don't want to say, cast somebody their life. But but
(12:25):
that can change the outcome of something, right. That's just
the process of learning and so letting go of that
guilt and of that of that feeling of why didn't
I say this person? Why didn't I? You know, let's
focus on other people you have helped, and I think
shifting that perspective a little bit of Wow, how much
(12:46):
good have I done in the world versus all the
bad things that I've been exposed to. It sounds simplistic,
but I think it can be helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Do you see this as a two way street?
Speaker 1 (12:58):
In other words, first responder are there to protect, serve, help,
But should the general public also understand, have some empathy,
have some sympathy for what our first responders and the
positions that they are being placed in and the decisions
that they have to make under so much pressure. What
would you say to the general public? How can they
(13:20):
better understand our first responders?
Speaker 3 (13:22):
So I highly recommend for anyone to do a ride
along that's my personal opinion. I did one many years
ago and it was eye opening.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Explain the right along so those that don't know what
that is.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
So a ride along is you know, you fill out
some paperwork and you go to your local police department.
You can choose whatever municipality you do it in. I
did it in Hialiyah. It was fascinating, great police department,
absolutely and it was it was you know, you have
to sign this paperwork, you sit down, you can't get
out of the car when the police officer gets out
(13:56):
of the car. You're just there to observe. You're not
there to interfere. But it was interesting. You know, when
they pull over a car, my adrenaline was going a
little bit like what are they walking up on? Yeah,
this person took us oop sign, But do they have
a weapon in the car? You know, is there somebody
that's been kidnapped in the car. I don't know, I
don't know. Is this person going to be friendly? Are
(14:17):
they going to be apologetic? Are they going to be aggressive?
And so these are all things that police are in
their minds. It's going going going there, adrenaline is up,
their nervous system is constantly going and so I think
it's important for the public to also understand, you know,
what our police go through. But I will say I
(14:38):
truly believe City of Miami does a beautiful job of
community policing. They engage their communities, They're out there the
resources talking to people. So I think a big part
of this is educating our communities and understanding. You know,
a lot of people live in a municipality and they
don't even realize they have two commissioners and two mayors, right,
(15:00):
and that they have a police department. Depending on what
it is, might be your city, if it's bigger, it
might get bounced to county. It kind of depends on
what the crime is. Right. Definitely understanding all these nuances
and all these things that police have to understand. The
same with fire departments. You know, oh, well they came
and they broke all the windows. Understanding that, you know,
(15:21):
the fire department their job is to protect life. They
want to protect your property as well, but if they
have to make a choice, it's going to be your life.
And so understanding some of the procedures of why they
do the things that they do.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
You mentioned the Miami Police Department and the leadership by
police chief. Current police chief Many Morales, who leads with integrity, accountability,
and a strong focus on community. He's done a fantastic
job with community outreach, specifically with the religious community and
(16:01):
local Hispanic Latino Spanish speaking community, but with the black
community as well. There's very close ties there and he
has personally told me that since he came into the office,
it was important to understand that community and for the
community to understand the police department and their challenges and
have a direct line. And I think that's very important
for police departments to have that rapport with the people
(16:22):
that they that they serve.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I think, you know, our first response just can traumatize
as well if there's not good police work, if we
don't acknowledge the things that okay, we apologize that that's
the way that something was handled in the past. You know.
I have a friend who's who for many years was
on the swat team, you know, and he said, they
thought that person fit the description, and you know, eventually
(16:47):
they realized that that was not the case. There was
illegal activity coming out of that house, but it wasn't
this particular person. And he actually apologized to that person
and sat down and had a conversation and learned the
communities that they're policing. I think it's easy for the
community to say, oh, the police just comes in here
and tears everything up. And I think it's easy for
(17:09):
police to say, oh, this particular community is always a problem.
And I think we need to get away from generalizing that,
right because and every kind of profession and every kind
of department. Yeah, of course we're humans, right, So there
are always people that don't have good intentions. Are there
bad seeds only in one community, No, there's good people everywhere.
So I think opening those lines of communication is also
(17:32):
really important. We don't want our children to fear the police.
We want our kids to if if somebody touches you inappropriately,
if something's happening at school, you know, I teach kids
that that's a trusted adult. And so I think the
police also has to understand kind of that responsibility that
(17:53):
they have to uphold that uniform.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
And with that said, going back to the two way
street and knowing your police department and the police department
knowing the community, it's also would you say the responsibility
of the community to hold their elected officials accountable their
police departments accountable, not just when there's bad times, but
(18:16):
they should have a healthy and ongoing conversation. They should
know who their leaders are. It's about accountability as well,
not just when there's crisis.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Right, there should be a thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I say this often, and I don't see it in
a kind of a nonchalant way. I really mean it.
I sleep very well. I have a seven year old,
and I sleep very well at night knowing that if
something goes wrong, if we have a medical emergency, we
can call people and they're going to respond. And I think,
you know, someone might say, well, you've never had a
(18:51):
negative experience with the police. I mean I did pulled
over and kind of had an experience with somebody that
wasn't that pleasant, but you kind of take it with
a grain of salt. I don't know what that person
was dealing with that day, right. The other part of
that is taking responsibility for my actions. What did I
do that got myself pulled over? Right? So I think
(19:15):
we all have to take responsibility for what we're doing.
It doesn't mean that you're a terrible person. Anyone can
be distracted in a moment and go oh, I didn't
realize I was going a little bit over the speed limit, okay,
but just being cordial to each other. It is a
two way street. And understanding to be cordial and respectful
to each other. And again understanding what are the what
(19:36):
are the things that are impacting my community that I'm policing,
and what is my responsibility as as a person, as
a member of this community to understand what my police
is dealing with? Right? I think that's important.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
On the other hand, there's people probably listening that think otherwise,
that think, I pay my taxes, this is not my problem.
The police department needs to investigate. I need answers. Why
haven't they solved this crime? What would you tell that person?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So I would tell them what are we talking about?
Are we talking about a home invasion? Are we talking
about a murder? Are we talking about somebody took your
garbage can from your front yard? Like I you know,
I'm not saying that these things are not important. When
it's your property and it's your stuff, it's important to you.
But also again that's part of being of community and
(20:29):
understanding you know, this really and the scale of life.
This really isn't a big deal. You know, why am
I calling the police department. You know, I think this
is a really big issue when you talk about people
who are calling the police department because somebody's suffering a
mental health crisis. Right, And so we've had instances where
(20:53):
police are called and that person ends up dead because
that person was being aggressive or they didn't know. And
then we have that are upset but I called for
them to help. It's a very it's a very complex issue.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
It is what would you tell somebody that does have
somebody that's suffering from PTSD or has another mental health
issue that has now turned violent?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Should they call a police?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Ah, that's kind of a loaded question in Tickese. So
we should call police if you need a Baker act.
But I think that that the police can't be the
last resort. I feel like the police has become the
people that we call for everything. And the reality is
that some police officers are trained, but they're not all
trained in mental health or crisis. We're very lucky in
(21:40):
Miami Dade County. We do have now some specialized units
that go out when they know it's a mental health call.
But if you're in the parking lot somewhere and somebody's
being aggressive, you don't know that that person is having
a psychotic break because you're not a mental health provider, right,
so you I can kind of tell I'm like, oh, oh,
I think this is not what it looks like. This
might be somebody happy being a mental health crisis, but
(22:01):
somebody's going to call the police because they're scared. And
so I think understanding maybe for those family members, how
can we get better treatment? You know, how can we
get better treatment for these individuals? And understanding the role
of police. Police are not mental health providers. If you
call the police, you may have an outcome that you
don't want to have, right, So how do we kind
(22:24):
of get around that? And that's where the hard question is,
because if you need this person hospitalized, you may contact
the police. So I think maybe giving better information to
the dispatcher. Listen, I'm calling because we're concerned, right, but
this person does have mental health issues, and I think
maybe frontloading some of that information for the officer, maybe
(22:46):
that could be a better way to handle that situation. Versus, Oh,
my brother has a knife and we're trying to calm
him down and we can't see. That's a different call,
right Versus, Hey, I'm calling you because My brother struggles
with bipolar disorder. He's a little bit out of control
right now. I don't think he's gonna hurt us, but
I don't know who else to call. That's a different
call for that dispatcher and how those officers may approach
(23:09):
that call. So you know, again this all boils down
to education. How do how do we educate police and
how do we educate communities? And again, so what does
that come down to? Education about mental health which is
now in our faces whether we like it or not.
It used to be a thing that people hit away,
right They would send their family members who were sick
(23:30):
to a mental hospital, or they would send them away
to a special place. Well, we don't do that anymore.
We don't hide people that have mental health issues, right,
And so we all have to learn how to how
to kind of live together or work together for the
better men of everyone.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Would you say, then, then the more we talk about it,
the better the situation is, because it's not an easy answer,
to your point, and knowing that someone that's unstable mentally
can fly off the handle at any given moment, and police,
to your point as well, arrive on a scene and
they're dealing with some unknown person and they have to
escalate or de escalate that, and that that situation very
very quickly, and family members know better the history behind
(24:10):
what's going on with that person, if you know, IF's
bipolar disorder, if it's somebody that's medicated and it's off
their their medication. So does that responsibility fall more on
the family and is that something they should handle more
on their doctor level with their loved one.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I think they should handle it on their on their
treatment level, obviously with physicians and things like this, But
I think also, you know, I'm just kind of thinking
out loud and speaking with you, but what if you
go by the police station and say, hey, we live
at this particular address and we might call you sometimes
because we have somebody that lives with us that has
some mental health issues. Again, that's a perfect world, right
(24:48):
because it's not like they're going to relay that to
everybody on shift. But maybe getting to know the officers
that you know patrol your area and again that that's
also part of that community policing. Hey, we let somebody
lives in that cornerhouse and they have good days and
bad days, and on bad days, this is how we
address that. Now, that might be a little more challenging
(25:09):
in a metropolitan area like ours, but it's not impossible
because when you're on shift, you're in your particular district,
your zone, and so you get to know your people.
You know who's the troublemakers, you know who's the helpers.
You get to know all these things.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
To your point, and you had mentioned the Hialea Police
Department in South Florida, they the hialia A Police Department
has us implemented an autism Awareness decal program for homes
and vehicles to alert for responders about individuals with autism.
And this helps, to your point, officers respond appropriately based
on specialized training. They know that when they're arriving at
(25:44):
that house, the dispatcher is able to tell them if
that resident has registered with the police department, that there's
an autistic person, for example, living in that home, so
that the officers know that if someone's not responding to
their verbal commands or is acting in an odd way
or different way just not responding to them, they will
know why. So maybe this is a great way. They
might be nonverbal, and there's a lot of people on
(26:05):
the autism spectrum that are nonverbal. So to your point,
this could be helpful. And a lot of police departments,
like the Miami Police Department, have certain households that are
registered where there's people that have openly threatened police officers,
threatened to kill police officers. So responding officers, if they're
going to that address, the dispatcher is able to relay
(26:25):
that information for officer safety, to let them know, Hey,
there's an individual that lives at that residence that's named
like this and this is their date of birth, and
they've made open threats to kill police officers, so the
officers are better prepared to handle that situation.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yeah, I think that's lovely and I think understanding, right,
these are our needs in our households, and I want
to keep my person safe and I want to keep
the police safe. I don't want this to have a
terrible outcome, right, you know. And part of that is
just mental health, some diagnosis. The behaviors can be a
(27:02):
little bit unpredictable. People take their medicine, then they stop
taking their medicine when they feel better or they're having
a psychotic break and they just completely stop taking medicine.
They mix their medicine. If you have co occurring where
they have substance abuse issues as well. So, yeah, there's
a lot of things. You know, it's not like the
police gets a chart, right and you know what this
person is dealing with. You're kind of called in that moment.
(27:26):
Tensions are already high in this household, and now we're
adding police to this. And so I like that idea
of maybe a decal or of getting to know getting
to know your officers, you know the other side of
that and thin Gas, we can't shy away from the
issues that we're having now with I hear this a
lot with clients, and it's a topic of conversation that
(27:48):
we have to kind of approach, which is, you know
what if I call the police and I have immigration issues, now,
what's going to happen? So I think some of this
leads to a lot of the miscommunication with police. I
think it leads to more mental health issues of people
who are depressed, anxious, feeling desperate, you know. And I
(28:10):
think that a lot is being asked of our police
departments to enforce all kinds of things, which I understand,
but we can't make pretend that these things happen in
a vacuum, right, there's consequences to all of it.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So there have been a lot of studies that show
a much higher rate of intimate partner violence among police.
Can you talk about how that might connect to officer
mental health?
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Absolutely. So it's a high stress job. There's a lot
going on, and unfortunately, sometimes that can lead to coming
home and just having poor communication with an intimate partner.
It can lead to domestic violence, it can lead to
all kinds of different things. And so then the person
in that relationship, it's twofold, right because who am I
(28:59):
going to call the police on the police officer? That's
that can get tricky. It's so important again to have
open communication, to seek out therapy. But we know that
officers are exposed to complex trauma every day. That's why
the treatment has to be different because what they're you know,
what I can do with someone who's experienced one traumatic event,
(29:20):
We can process that one event. I can't process with
a police officer or firefighter every day because every day
they're exposed to trauma. And so just not finding a
way to not bring that home to your spouse. And
I don't want anyone to misunderstand me and think that
I'm victim blaming, but also I think for spouses to
fully understand what their partner is exposed to and knowing
(29:44):
to kind of read those signs of I think this
person had a bad day today. That's never an excuse
for domestic violence or for putting your hands on someone.
But I do think that you have to understand your partner,
understand their triggers, and they need to understand yours. You know,
when you come home and you don't speak to me
because you saw a lot of bad things today, I
take that as neglect or is that you're upset with me?
(30:07):
That erodes trust in the police. If we have now
police officers engaging in domestic violence, now we have other
issues and that's and that's not helpful either.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Michelle.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
What are some of the available resources, both locally here
in Miami but also nationally.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
So people can call the National Center for PTSD. They
also have a great website that has tons of information.
They can call NAMI, which is the National Alliance on
Mental Illness. And then with your local department if you
choose to go through your department, you can go through
the employee Assistance program, you can go through your union.
There's you know, various unions, the local for the fire Department,
(30:49):
the PBA, the FLP, like there's there's several places where
you can go and ask for help. You can always
call the Suicide Crisis Hotline if you're at that point,
right and you can always receive help. There's always help,
And I think the most important thing for first responders
to understand is that there is a therapist suited for you.
(31:10):
And it's important to ask for help because you always
respond to the call for help, but it's okay to
also ask.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
For help, and it's so important.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
The National Suicide Hotline, if you need to talk, the
nine eight eight lifeline is there for you in both
English and in Spanish. You can text nine eight eight,
or you can simply pick up your phone and down
nine eight eight and thinkay.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
There's also a great local organization if you want to
reach out to Bleeding Blue. They do a fantastic job
of linking officers with any kind of therapist peer support,
and they've done a really beautiful job of doing that locally.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Thank you, thank you so much for coming on the show,
Michelle here. Your work is really powerful and necessary. Thank you,
thank you. If you have information to share on any
cold case please caller send in a tip with your
local crime stoppers or law enforcement department in Miami. That
number is three zero five four to seven to one tips.
(32:09):
That's three zero five four seven one eight four seven seven.
You can also visit Crimestoppers three zero five dot com
and select give a tip Cold Case Files Miami. As
(32:30):
a production of Iheart'smichael Duda podcast Network and School of Humans,
I'm your host Imbriqua Santos.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
This show is.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Written and researched by Marissa Brown. Our lead producer is
Josh thing Eedeli Spees is our senior producer. Sound design
and mix by Josh Thain, fact checking by Savannah Hugley.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Our production manager is Daisy Church.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Executive producers include me Mbriquessantos, Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and
Elsie Crowley from School of Humans. For more podcasts, listen
to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
From School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts. This is Cold
Case Files Miami. I'm your host, Anddrique Santos this is
Cold Case Files Miami. So part of our goal on
this show is to have open conversations with professionals about
what law enforcement or first responders deal with behind the scenes.
(00:27):
Much of what we know or see of folks in
this profession.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
For media TV, and we want to humanize their experience.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
As you know, I'm a reserve Miami police officer and
the time I worked as a full time cop left
me marked in more ways than one. I've seen the
mental toll it can take and have experienced it firsthand.
There's a lot of stigma around asking for help, and
that's why I wanted to speak to my friend Michelle Ernandez.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Michelle Ernandez is a licensed mental.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Health counselor and psychotherapist who specializes in trauma. Started her
own private practice after spending nearly a decade working with
Christy House, an organization here in Miami that.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Treats children with severe trauma.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Today, her clients are of all ages, but she focuses
on people suffering from PTSD, anxiety and grief. Michelle, welcome,
Let's start with defining PTSD, how do you define it?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
So, post traumatic stress disorder is something that happens after
somebody experiences a traumatic event. Now this has evolved a
little bit, right. It used to be that we used
to think, well, it's this is from military that are
coming back from service. But the reality is that so
many people have experienced something that can be traumatic, from
a sexual abuse to a physical abuse, you know, victims
(01:47):
of crime. There's so many ways that someone can experience trauma.
I've seen levels of PTSD even after COVID for some
people it was that traumatic. So it's something that you know,
you experience something that's really traumatic, you can't stop thinking
about it. There's people that experience flashbacks, there's people that
are triggered, they're right back in that moment. They can
(02:09):
have trouble sleeping. It can impact their relationships, it can
impact their health. There's research that shows that prolonged exposure
two events that contribute to PTSD can actually shorten somebody's life.
And so I've dedicated my life to kind of working
with children in foster care, police fire, anybody that has
(02:31):
experienced PTSD. It's very important to me. I think that
quality of life is important, and I think it's important
for people to understand that even though you've seen really
terrible things or bad things, that there can be a
quality of life and that you can overcome some of
these things.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Talking about PTSD not only affecting life but shortening life.
Many people dealing with PTSD unfortunately end up committing so
side how much of that is a factor and how
worried are you with this factor?
Speaker 3 (03:06):
So it's interesting for the general population, the risk of
suicide is about seven to twelve percent for people with PTSD.
When you look at police and fire, those numbers are
really high. In the state of Florida, there is the
number is about twenty percent of suicide risk. The numbers
(03:29):
are pretty high in Florida, and we're not the highest.
I believe Montana, Alaska, and Wyoming have the highest incidents
of suicide. I think that it falls on our agencies
or community leaders. I know that it's difficult when we
lose a first responsor, but I have to say that
the past few months, it's happened a few times and
(03:51):
the conversations have been refreshing. In my opinion, I think
that the leaders of these agencies we have to have
an open conversation. Why are we losing senior people? Why
do they feel, after dedicating their life to their community
that suicide is the answer? How much pain are they
in and what are we missing? How can we help them?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
So I think it's also important to remember that it's
not just new recruits who might struggle with mental health
issues right well, people starting their job, in the middle
of their job, towards the end of their careers.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
This also affects.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Veterans, like like like you're explaining, and this affects the family.
How can we identify and deal with a loved one
that's dealing with PTSD.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
So I think open communication is always the important thing, right.
I think it's it's lovely, and I think a lot
of people think, oh, I married my hero. They're a
first responder. And I feel like first responders oftentimes don't
want to bring that burden home. My partner can't. I
don't want to share that what I say today with them.
(05:01):
I don't want to share that I saw a little
child drown or that I wasn't able to save somebody
from a gunshot wound, or that there was a terrible
car accident. They want to kind of keep that to
themselves and maybe share it with other first responders. So
I think as a spouse of a first responder, or
a partner, an intimate partner, or even just parents siblings,
(05:22):
asking your person, are you okay? You don't have to
give me the details of what you have experienced, but
how are you doing? How are you coping? How can
we support you? Right? I think also giving first responders
a breather when they walk through the door. You know,
oftentimes we want them to jump back in into family life.
(05:43):
And I don't know what this person saw while they
were on shift, so maybe they didn't need a minute
to regroup, right, and then kind of jump back into too,
whatever's happening in the household.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Let's talk about the stigma a little bit. There are
there many studies, Yeah, and you've mentioned some numbers as
well as that this takes high rates of mental health
issues among police and first responder uh and much higher
than the general public.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Right.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Do you think law enforcement officers and first responders are
encouraged internally within their police departments, within their circles to
talk about these issues?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Is there enough support for them? Are we failing them?
Speaker 3 (06:17):
I think I think we have to understand them. I
think I'll speak to providers. So let's start with providers.
So if you're a provider, and you and you're a
mental health provider, you treat PTSD, it's imperative that you
understand this subsection of our population. Right. You have to
understand how police talk. You have to understand how firefighters talk,
(06:40):
you their lingo, their language. It's also important to note
that first responders, police and fire experience PTSD differently. A
police a police officer can be very solitary. They're in
their car, they might have somebody that's in their in
their same district that they work with, right or somebody
that they body up with. But firefighters go back to
(07:01):
their fire station and they can kind of hash some
of this stuff out. And so we have to understand
that we're also everybody's first responders. But they're all so different.
Just like dispatchers. Dispatchers are getting these raw calls and
there's no filter. They're getting these raw calls. If somebody's
screaming and yelling and they're trying to help this person.
They're trying to relay that information to whoever's responding, and
(07:25):
they experience BTSC differently. And so I think it's important
to hold that space to support them. I can speak
to Miami, I think culturally right for Hispanics and maybe
for other minorities. The stigma of I'm not crazy. I
don't need to talk to anybody. You don't need to
be crazy. You've chosen a vocation that is admirable and
(07:47):
it's beautiful, but it comes with a cost, right your
own sense of being, your sense of mental health, becoming
a little bit jaded about the world. And so I
think it's important to have open spaces where people can
talk about these things.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Okay, so talking about this with your buddies, with your
peers on the force can be helpful. But some fear
that if they take it to the next level and
speak to an expert like you, and if what's shared
is a little too dark, that might threaten their job,
their career, and their families.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
There's definitely a fear of are they going to take
my gun? Are they going to take me off the
fire truck? Am I going to be put on dust duty?
If I share these concerns. In my opinion, I feel
like we need providers that are very specialized and also
that are not attached to the agency. So standalone, I
(08:45):
don't have to answer to the fire department, I don't
have to answer to the police department. I can hold
this space for my client while also having those serious
conversations of when do you need a break, should you
still be working? Do you need a time out, but
not having that fear of if I share too much,
is this immediately going to be reported to my boss?
(09:07):
And I think that that's helpful.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
So what you're describing outside third party not your agency?
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Are you describing union?
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Uh? It could be the union. You know, every union
works differently. I know, I think locally the PBA does
a great job of connecting people with third parties. It's
not necessarily something that's going to go right back to
the police department. You know. I'm not talking about you
were involved in a shooting and now they're doing an
investigation the way that they do because you just start
(09:36):
your firearm. That's normal, right, that has to be done.
I'm talking about. This is not specific to one incident.
This is a culmination of I just got on the
forest and I don't know how to deal with this,
or I've been on the force for ten years and
I can't deal with it anymore. I need somebody where
I can where I can kind of talk about these things.
(09:56):
I do think we need third party people that are qualified,
that are not necessarily linked back to the agencies. I
spoke locally to do different people, one with the fire department,
one with a county police who told me that when
people are in the academy, they kind of brush over
the topic of PTSD. Now imagine you have recruits that
(10:18):
are put through these academies, right, which are intense physically, emotionally,
and so I wonder how much of them are filtering that.
I do think that there are. There's some grants in
motion at this time, and what they want to do
is follow This is specific to the fire department. They
want to follow people. You just got on board, all right,
(10:40):
So let's have a conversation in six months, in a
year and see how you're adjusting. I loved that idea.
I think it's fantastic of telling people this is not
you're going to see a therapist once. This is throughout
your career. Let's do some check ins, right, Let's do
a wellness check and see how you doing mentally. Have
you even asked yourself how am I doing mentally because
(11:02):
some of us don't do that, We don't even check
in with ourselves.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Let's talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Do you think that separation between work and home life
is important to maintain? And how do you how can
first responders that are listening right now, what would you
say to them that they're looking for that, for that
healthy balance.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
So I believe that work life balance is extremely important
when we're looking at first responders. How do we help
them do that? When they drove by a particular corner
and they can remember an accident that was on that corner,
they can remember where they arrested someone. Some people don't
live where they police, but a lot of people do.
(11:40):
And you know if you do, if you choose to
live in the same city where you're policing, you do
have to kind of be be mindful of that. Are
these triggers? Oh I remember where I responded to a
call of a pool and a little kid drowned, that
it was right on the street, And so understanding that
these are to be triggers, and how to prepare for that? Meaning,
(12:04):
how do you talk about that? And how do you
understand that this number one, this is a vocation so
processing a lot of your guilt. The reality is you're
not going to save everybody. The reality is, in the
beginning of your career, you might make mistakes that I
don't want to say, cast somebody their life. But but
(12:25):
that can change the outcome of something, right. That's just
the process of learning and so letting go of that
guilt and of that of that feeling of why didn't
I say this person? Why didn't I? You know, let's
focus on other people you have helped, and I think
shifting that perspective a little bit of Wow, how much
(12:46):
good have I done in the world versus all the
bad things that I've been exposed to. It sounds simplistic,
but I think it can be helpful.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Do you see this as a two way street?
Speaker 1 (12:58):
In other words, first responder are there to protect, serve, help,
But should the general public also understand, have some empathy,
have some sympathy for what our first responders and the
positions that they are being placed in and the decisions
that they have to make under so much pressure. What
would you say to the general public? How can they
(13:20):
better understand our first responders?
Speaker 3 (13:22):
So I highly recommend for anyone to do a ride
along that's my personal opinion. I did one many years
ago and it was eye opening.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Explain the right along so those that don't know what
that is.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
So a ride along is you know, you fill out
some paperwork and you go to your local police department.
You can choose whatever municipality you do it in. I
did it in Hialiyah. It was fascinating, great police department,
absolutely and it was it was you know, you have
to sign this paperwork, you sit down, you can't get
out of the car when the police officer gets out
(13:56):
of the car. You're just there to observe. You're not
there to interfere. But it was interesting. You know, when
they pull over a car, my adrenaline was going a
little bit like what are they walking up on? Yeah,
this person took us oop sign, But do they have
a weapon in the car? You know, is there somebody
that's been kidnapped in the car. I don't know, I
don't know. Is this person going to be friendly? Are
(14:17):
they going to be apologetic? Are they going to be aggressive?
And so these are all things that police are in
their minds. It's going going going there, adrenaline is up,
their nervous system is constantly going and so I think
it's important for the public to also understand, you know,
what our police go through. But I will say I
(14:38):
truly believe City of Miami does a beautiful job of
community policing. They engage their communities, They're out there the
resources talking to people. So I think a big part
of this is educating our communities and understanding. You know,
a lot of people live in a municipality and they
don't even realize they have two commissioners and two mayors, right,
(15:00):
and that they have a police department. Depending on what
it is, might be your city, if it's bigger, it
might get bounced to county. It kind of depends on
what the crime is. Right. Definitely understanding all these nuances
and all these things that police have to understand. The
same with fire departments. You know, oh, well they came
and they broke all the windows. Understanding that, you know,
(15:21):
the fire department their job is to protect life. They
want to protect your property as well, but if they
have to make a choice, it's going to be your life.
And so understanding some of the procedures of why they
do the things that they do.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
You mentioned the Miami Police Department and the leadership by
police chief. Current police chief Many Morales, who leads with integrity, accountability,
and a strong focus on community. He's done a fantastic
job with community outreach, specifically with the religious community and
(16:01):
local Hispanic Latino Spanish speaking community, but with the black
community as well. There's very close ties there and he
has personally told me that since he came into the office,
it was important to understand that community and for the
community to understand the police department and their challenges and
have a direct line. And I think that's very important
for police departments to have that rapport with the people
(16:22):
that they that they serve.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
I think, you know, our first response just can traumatize
as well if there's not good police work, if we
don't acknowledge the things that okay, we apologize that that's
the way that something was handled in the past. You know.
I have a friend who's who for many years was
on the swat team, you know, and he said, they
thought that person fit the description, and you know, eventually
(16:47):
they realized that that was not the case. There was
illegal activity coming out of that house, but it wasn't
this particular person. And he actually apologized to that person
and sat down and had a conversation and learned the
communities that they're policing. I think it's easy for the
community to say, oh, the police just comes in here
and tears everything up. And I think it's easy for
(17:09):
police to say, oh, this particular community is always a problem.
And I think we need to get away from generalizing that,
right because and every kind of profession and every kind
of department. Yeah, of course we're humans, right, So there
are always people that don't have good intentions. Are there
bad seeds only in one community, No, there's good people everywhere.
So I think opening those lines of communication is also
(17:32):
really important. We don't want our children to fear the police.
We want our kids to if if somebody touches you inappropriately,
if something's happening at school, you know, I teach kids
that that's a trusted adult. And so I think the
police also has to understand kind of that responsibility that
(17:53):
they have to uphold that uniform.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
And with that said, going back to the two way
street and knowing your police department and the police department
knowing the community, it's also would you say the responsibility
of the community to hold their elected officials accountable their
police departments accountable, not just when there's bad times, but
(18:16):
they should have a healthy and ongoing conversation. They should
know who their leaders are. It's about accountability as well,
not just when there's crisis.
Speaker 3 (18:27):
Right, there should be a thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
I say this often, and I don't see it in
a kind of a nonchalant way. I really mean it.
I sleep very well. I have a seven year old,
and I sleep very well at night knowing that if
something goes wrong, if we have a medical emergency, we
can call people and they're going to respond. And I think,
you know, someone might say, well, you've never had a
(18:51):
negative experience with the police. I mean I did pulled
over and kind of had an experience with somebody that
wasn't that pleasant, but you kind of take it with
a grain of salt. I don't know what that person
was dealing with that day, right. The other part of
that is taking responsibility for my actions. What did I
do that got myself pulled over? Right? So I think
(19:15):
we all have to take responsibility for what we're doing.
It doesn't mean that you're a terrible person. Anyone can
be distracted in a moment and go oh, I didn't
realize I was going a little bit over the speed limit, okay,
but just being cordial to each other. It is a
two way street. And understanding to be cordial and respectful
to each other. And again understanding what are the what
(19:36):
are the things that are impacting my community that I'm policing,
and what is my responsibility as as a person, as
a member of this community to understand what my police
is dealing with? Right? I think that's important.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
On the other hand, there's people probably listening that think otherwise,
that think, I pay my taxes, this is not my problem.
The police department needs to investigate. I need answers. Why
haven't they solved this crime? What would you tell that person?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So I would tell them what are we talking about?
Are we talking about a home invasion? Are we talking
about a murder? Are we talking about somebody took your
garbage can from your front yard? Like I you know,
I'm not saying that these things are not important. When
it's your property and it's your stuff, it's important to you.
But also again that's part of being of community and
(20:29):
understanding you know, this really and the scale of life.
This really isn't a big deal. You know, why am
I calling the police department. You know, I think this
is a really big issue when you talk about people
who are calling the police department because somebody's suffering a
mental health crisis. Right, And so we've had instances where
(20:53):
police are called and that person ends up dead because
that person was being aggressive or they didn't know. And
then we have that are upset but I called for
them to help. It's a very it's a very complex issue.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
It is what would you tell somebody that does have
somebody that's suffering from PTSD or has another mental health
issue that has now turned violent?
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Should they call a police?
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Ah, that's kind of a loaded question in Tickese. So
we should call police if you need a Baker act.
But I think that that the police can't be the
last resort. I feel like the police has become the
people that we call for everything. And the reality is
that some police officers are trained, but they're not all
trained in mental health or crisis. We're very lucky in
(21:40):
Miami Dade County. We do have now some specialized units
that go out when they know it's a mental health call.
But if you're in the parking lot somewhere and somebody's
being aggressive, you don't know that that person is having
a psychotic break because you're not a mental health provider, right,
so you I can kind of tell I'm like, oh, oh,
I think this is not what it looks like. This
might be somebody happy being a mental health crisis, but
(22:01):
somebody's going to call the police because they're scared. And
so I think understanding maybe for those family members, how
can we get better treatment? You know, how can we
get better treatment for these individuals? And understanding the role
of police. Police are not mental health providers. If you
call the police, you may have an outcome that you
don't want to have, right, So how do we kind
(22:24):
of get around that? And that's where the hard question is,
because if you need this person hospitalized, you may contact
the police. So I think maybe giving better information to
the dispatcher. Listen, I'm calling because we're concerned, right, but
this person does have mental health issues, and I think
maybe frontloading some of that information for the officer, maybe
(22:46):
that could be a better way to handle that situation. Versus, Oh,
my brother has a knife and we're trying to calm
him down and we can't see. That's a different call,
right Versus, Hey, I'm calling you because My brother struggles
with bipolar disorder. He's a little bit out of control
right now. I don't think he's gonna hurt us, but
I don't know who else to call. That's a different
call for that dispatcher and how those officers may approach
(23:09):
that call. So you know, again this all boils down
to education. How do how do we educate police and
how do we educate communities? And again, so what does
that come down to? Education about mental health which is
now in our faces whether we like it or not.
It used to be a thing that people hit away,
right They would send their family members who were sick
(23:30):
to a mental hospital, or they would send them away
to a special place. Well, we don't do that anymore.
We don't hide people that have mental health issues, right,
And so we all have to learn how to how
to kind of live together or work together for the
better men of everyone.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Would you say, then, then the more we talk about it,
the better the situation is, because it's not an easy answer,
to your point, and knowing that someone that's unstable mentally
can fly off the handle at any given moment, and police,
to your point as well, arrive on a scene and
they're dealing with some unknown person and they have to
escalate or de escalate that, and that that situation very
very quickly, and family members know better the history behind
(24:10):
what's going on with that person, if you know, IF's
bipolar disorder, if it's somebody that's medicated and it's off
their their medication. So does that responsibility fall more on
the family and is that something they should handle more
on their doctor level with their loved one.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
I think they should handle it on their on their
treatment level, obviously with physicians and things like this, But
I think also, you know, I'm just kind of thinking
out loud and speaking with you, but what if you
go by the police station and say, hey, we live
at this particular address and we might call you sometimes
because we have somebody that lives with us that has
some mental health issues. Again, that's a perfect world, right
(24:48):
because it's not like they're going to relay that to
everybody on shift. But maybe getting to know the officers
that you know patrol your area and again that that's
also part of that community policing. Hey, we let somebody
lives in that cornerhouse and they have good days and
bad days, and on bad days, this is how we
address that. Now, that might be a little more challenging
(25:09):
in a metropolitan area like ours, but it's not impossible
because when you're on shift, you're in your particular district,
your zone, and so you get to know your people.
You know who's the troublemakers, you know who's the helpers.
You get to know all these things.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
To your point, and you had mentioned the Hialea Police
Department in South Florida, they the hialia A Police Department
has us implemented an autism Awareness decal program for homes
and vehicles to alert for responders about individuals with autism.
And this helps, to your point, officers respond appropriately based
on specialized training. They know that when they're arriving at
(25:44):
that house, the dispatcher is able to tell them if
that resident has registered with the police department, that there's
an autistic person, for example, living in that home, so
that the officers know that if someone's not responding to
their verbal commands or is acting in an odd way
or different way just not responding to them, they will
know why. So maybe this is a great way. They
might be nonverbal, and there's a lot of people on
(26:05):
the autism spectrum that are nonverbal. So to your point,
this could be helpful. And a lot of police departments,
like the Miami Police Department, have certain households that are
registered where there's people that have openly threatened police officers,
threatened to kill police officers. So responding officers, if they're
going to that address, the dispatcher is able to relay
(26:25):
that information for officer safety, to let them know, Hey,
there's an individual that lives at that residence that's named
like this and this is their date of birth, and
they've made open threats to kill police officers, so the
officers are better prepared to handle that situation.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yeah, I think that's lovely and I think understanding, right,
these are our needs in our households, and I want
to keep my person safe and I want to keep
the police safe. I don't want this to have a
terrible outcome, right, you know. And part of that is
just mental health, some diagnosis. The behaviors can be a
(27:02):
little bit unpredictable. People take their medicine, then they stop
taking their medicine when they feel better or they're having
a psychotic break and they just completely stop taking medicine.
They mix their medicine. If you have co occurring where
they have substance abuse issues as well. So, yeah, there's
a lot of things. You know, it's not like the
police gets a chart, right and you know what this
person is dealing with. You're kind of called in that moment.
(27:26):
Tensions are already high in this household, and now we're
adding police to this. And so I like that idea
of maybe a decal or of getting to know getting
to know your officers, you know the other side of
that and thin Gas, we can't shy away from the
issues that we're having now with I hear this a
lot with clients, and it's a topic of conversation that
(27:48):
we have to kind of approach, which is, you know
what if I call the police and I have immigration issues, now,
what's going to happen? So I think some of this
leads to a lot of the miscommunication with police. I
think it leads to more mental health issues of people
who are depressed, anxious, feeling desperate, you know. And I
(28:10):
think that a lot is being asked of our police
departments to enforce all kinds of things, which I understand,
but we can't make pretend that these things happen in
a vacuum, right, there's consequences to all of it.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So there have been a lot of studies that show
a much higher rate of intimate partner violence among police.
Can you talk about how that might connect to officer
mental health?
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Absolutely. So it's a high stress job. There's a lot
going on, and unfortunately, sometimes that can lead to coming
home and just having poor communication with an intimate partner.
It can lead to domestic violence, it can lead to
all kinds of different things. And so then the person
in that relationship, it's twofold, right because who am I
(28:59):
going to call the police on the police officer? That's
that can get tricky. It's so important again to have
open communication, to seek out therapy. But we know that
officers are exposed to complex trauma every day. That's why
the treatment has to be different because what they're you know,
what I can do with someone who's experienced one traumatic event,
(29:20):
We can process that one event. I can't process with
a police officer or firefighter every day because every day
they're exposed to trauma. And so just not finding a
way to not bring that home to your spouse. And
I don't want anyone to misunderstand me and think that
I'm victim blaming, but also I think for spouses to
fully understand what their partner is exposed to and knowing
(29:44):
to kind of read those signs of I think this
person had a bad day today. That's never an excuse
for domestic violence or for putting your hands on someone.
But I do think that you have to understand your partner,
understand their triggers, and they need to understand yours. You know,
when you come home and you don't speak to me
because you saw a lot of bad things today, I
take that as neglect or is that you're upset with me?
(30:07):
That erodes trust in the police. If we have now
police officers engaging in domestic violence, now we have other
issues and that's and that's not helpful either.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
Michelle.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
What are some of the available resources, both locally here
in Miami but also nationally.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
So people can call the National Center for PTSD. They
also have a great website that has tons of information.
They can call NAMI, which is the National Alliance on
Mental Illness. And then with your local department if you
choose to go through your department, you can go through
the employee Assistance program, you can go through your union.
There's you know, various unions, the local for the fire Department,
(30:49):
the PBA, the FLP, like there's there's several places where
you can go and ask for help. You can always
call the Suicide Crisis Hotline if you're at that point,
right and you can always receive help. There's always help,
And I think the most important thing for first responders
to understand is that there is a therapist suited for you.
(31:10):
And it's important to ask for help because you always
respond to the call for help, but it's okay to
also ask.
Speaker 2 (31:17):
For help, and it's so important.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
The National Suicide Hotline, if you need to talk, the
nine eight eight lifeline is there for you in both
English and in Spanish. You can text nine eight eight,
or you can simply pick up your phone and down
nine eight eight and thinkay.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
There's also a great local organization if you want to
reach out to Bleeding Blue. They do a fantastic job
of linking officers with any kind of therapist peer support,
and they've done a really beautiful job of doing that locally.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Thank you, thank you so much for coming on the show,
Michelle here. Your work is really powerful and necessary. Thank you,
thank you. If you have information to share on any
cold case please caller send in a tip with your
local crime stoppers or law enforcement department in Miami. That
number is three zero five four to seven to one tips.
(32:09):
That's three zero five four seven one eight four seven seven.
You can also visit Crimestoppers three zero five dot com
and select give a tip Cold Case Files Miami. As
(32:30):
a production of Iheart'smichael Duda podcast Network and School of Humans,
I'm your host Imbriqua Santos.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
This show is.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Written and researched by Marissa Brown. Our lead producer is
Josh thing Eedeli Spees is our senior producer. Sound design
and mix by Josh Thain, fact checking by Savannah Hugley.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Our production manager is Daisy Church.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
Executive producers include me Mbriquessantos, Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and
Elsie Crowley from School of Humans. For more podcasts, listen
to the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
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