CZM Book Club: "Transmutation" by Katherine Sparrow

Margaret reads Sophie a story of love gone wrong between a magician and an alchemist.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Call Zone Media.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Book Club Club book Club. I wonder if that'll ever
get old or the listener the fact that you can't
coordinate I chant over zoom. Yeah, but you can introduce
Coolson Media book Club, which comes out every Sunday and

(00:27):
is a piece of fiction read by me Margaret Kilchroy.
And today my guest is the only award winning guest
we've ever had, Sophie Lichterman. Hi, maybe other people have
won awards. I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
They only give them to me legally.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Oh okay, yeah, all awards in the world go to Sophie.
That seems fair. Sophie does all of the work in
the world, including running all of the great cool Zone
Media podcasts that you listen to, whether on micro behind
the scenes. But I was like, I want Sophie to
be the guest of this story.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Well, I've been requesting this specific kind of story since
we first started talking about doing this book club series.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
I know, and I'm going to still find you another
Sophie has asked for a love story. Yeah, and this
is not a This is not a happy ending love story,
but it is a story about the complications of love
and it is a one of the best uses of
genre fiction to describe relationship dynamics that I've ever read,

(01:36):
and so I was excited to have you on for
it because this week's story is by an author named
Catherine Sparrow.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Catherine Sparrow.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Cool, Oh, awesome, cool, Oh, I'm so excited. Catherine Sparrow
is a writer who is deeply interested in creating stories
about transformation, struggle, and solidarity. You can check out her
debut fantasy book, Little Apocalypse, which is about deadly monsters
and a kid who loves them. And this particular story
was originally published in Fantasy Magazine under the title Chemical Magic,

(02:08):
but it comes to us under the title Transmutation.

Speaker 1 (02:12):
I'm so excited. This is going to be so nice
and just some context for the listeners. I have had
back to back to back to back to back stuff
this entire day, and I was like, Magpie, can I
get ten minutes to eat? And her suggestion was, why
don't you mute yourself while I read you this story?
And I was like, lunch hower story time, I highly

(02:34):
recommend soothing eating while listening to Magpie. Tell me a
love story that of sorts doesn't actually end with Hollywood
ending with a Hollywood ending that doesn't actually end with
a Hollywood ending.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, and I want to at some point, I'm going
to get you another love story to read, because there
are really good stories that do end with a little
bit more happiness. But I just I really like this story.
Transmutation by Catherine sparrom One. The magician pulled a rabbit,
a sock, monkey, a rainbow, and a flowering plum tree

(03:15):
out of his hat. He reached in deeper for everything
that was missing. He searched for something, anything, that would
make it right and bring her back from the far
off land seventeen subway stops away. His gap toothed audience,
smiling and applauding, yelled for him to do more. While
the birthday boy sucked on a large purple lollipop. The
magician began pulling kerchiefs from his sleeve, a huge pile

(03:38):
of bright colored silks, never ending as they fell onto
the floor around his shiny leather boots. He stared down
at them and knew, no matter how long he kept pulling,
that there could never be enough to cover his grief.
When his performance was done, the children clapped, the parents smiled,
He bowed, and scurried home to his lonely apartment, empty

(04:00):
except for the box that was his best trick, if
only a girl allowed him to do it. The Alchemist
scratched her nose with a gnawed fingernail and watched the
flow of information that turned pithy phrases into charitable donations.
She clicked over to the Alchemist's for Peace project's financial
page and made a complicated exchange that turned euros into

(04:22):
gold sterling. She felt a small contentment and held on
to that feeling until it faded away. Maybe I'll go
see a movie, she said out loud, as though she
had roommates. She scratched her belly along the red lined
scar and missed him for a moment. There were still
good memories.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
That made her ache.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
She looked out the window and saw one of the
Magician's doves pecking at his foot, where a message had
been tied to his leg. The Alchemist opened the window,
took the trembling bird into her hands, and untied the message.
She turned the paper into fire. Two two months earlier,

(05:02):
the magician stood on the dance floor wondering how to
magic his feet into graceful motion rather than the choppy
glitched movement of a thirteen year old boy. He hated
his dancing, but hated more those men who stood in
the club's shadows and watched without ever moving their bodies.
So he bounced and swayed while his elbows jerked backwards
in a hopeless gesture. He hit something soft that squished

(05:25):
and said out. He spun around to see a woman
holding her breast and glaring at him. She had the
kind of breasts he loved, round and droopy. Sorry, he
mouthed over the bass boom. She rolled her eyes. He
tried to elbow himself in the chest. It only seemed fair,
but the laws of physics only allowed him a blow

(05:46):
to the belly. At least it made her smile a little.
Her hard edged face turned lovely for a moment. She
flinched a little when he reached forward and pulled a
lollipop from behind her ear. She shook her head and
patted her lips with two fingers, so he reached behind
her other ear and pulled out a cigarette. He followed
her outside, out past the butchy ladies, comparing pecks to

(06:07):
the alley full of rain and soggy cardboard. I'm the
magician he said, alchemist, she replied. She took a mode
of dust from her pocket and placed it on the
edge of her cigarette. She turned the dust into flame.
Those things will kill you, he said, Cancer turned cells
into monsters, she said, with professional admiration. The alchemist offered

(06:31):
him a drag, and he took it, shivering a little
when he placed the wet tip on his lips. So, magician,
what kind of magic are you into? He shrugged? Anything? Really,
magic is all one thing underneath. I keep most of
my tricks small so I don't scare people, so they
don't ask too many questions. You know I do, she smiled.

(06:53):
At least people understand what a magician is. Everyone thinks
an alchemist makes perfume. One time I turned per fumano urine,
but that's not really my thing. Why'd you do it? Oh,
A lover cheated on me. The magician nodded. He thought
about the women he'd been with, how they'd all turned
from something magical into something awful. Maybe an alchemist could

(07:14):
keep that from happening. I bet your current lover doesn't cheat,
he said, trying not to sound too obvious. She raised
one eyebrow. I hope he won't. She stared until the
magician felt himself turning into something hot and bothered. She
walked away, and he followed, listening as she turned words
into a smoldering flirtation. He pulled flower after flower from

(07:37):
his breast pocket until he found her favorite, a collar lily,
and tucked it behind her ear. She turned his apartment
key into an invitation. He led her through his doorway
and into the world of his magical carpet, his magical bed,
and his magical bathtub, all of which are's for sale
from our sponsors. Get your own magical carpet, bed, and

(08:00):
bathtub from Magical Bed, bathtub, carpet, and beyond.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
I was hoping you were going to do the beyond part.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
It was like it was right there.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yes, it's pretty much necessary.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yeah, and we're back.

Speaker 2 (08:30):
Three. Some days they made elaborate plans and then never
ended up leaving the bed. Other days they would go
to the movies like teenagers in search of a dark space.
They would come out dazed, not having any idea what
it was about. I want to know everything about you,
the magician said. The alchemist reminded herself to stay safe.

(08:50):
She pulled herself out of his arms. Insighed, you know
what happens when you get too close to an alchemist.
I'd like to find out, the magician teased, he understood nothing.
He grinned, took a pair of lovebirds out of his
vest pocket and let them fly into the air. They
swooped and swirled around each other, fainting and surging in
a secret bird dance, before settling down on the magician's shoulder.

(09:14):
One thing becomes another, she lectured him, objects lose integrity.
Transmutation is a true danger of my profession. She talked
on about how it worked, but wasn't sure why she bothered.
He played with his birds and didn't listen. He didn't understand.
Maybe he didn't want to. The alchemist took one of

(09:35):
the birds into her hands and licked her fingers. When
she stroked its green feathered head, its feathers grew black
and crow like. She whispered in its ear to be
free and let the bird fly. Four. I want to
see what you can really do, he said to her.
One day at the park, all the squirrels watched her,

(09:56):
and all the boats in the sailboat pond blew towards her.
The magician couldn't tear his attention away from her, and
his magic leaked out all over the park. It filled
him up and spilled all over. He'd never been happier.
What I can really do, she smiled, with equal parts
condescension and affection. She liked him, he knew that, but

(10:17):
not as much as he liked her. She kept her distance.
He hated that most things can become most other things,
She said. The key is to figuring out how it changes,
like water into wine. You wonder how Jesus did it, Sure,
the magician said. He glanced around, hoping no one religious
stood nearby. The only people nearby were little kids trying

(10:39):
to push their boats away from her and back out
to the middle of the pool. So there are both liquids.
That helps, but it doesn't go very far. Water quenches
one kind of thirst, and wine another physiological and psychological,
so that moves them closer together. Then consider how water
to the thirsty is a relief, and how alkyl to

(11:00):
the wary is a relief. She gazed out across the
oval pond. When I hold all of that in my mind,
then it is only a small step into knowing what
chemical compounds are needed. To bridge the difference between them.
She opened her clunky purse and took out what looked
like a moldy bread crumb. She flicked it into the water,
and it sank down between the bobbing miniature sailboats. The

(11:24):
magician blinked, and in the time it took for his
eyes to flutter back open, the water became a dark
red stain stretching the length of the pool. The alchemist
cupped her hand and dipped it into the liquid. She
sipped it delicately, A fine sancho vesse, you are amazing.
I love you. The words slipped out, and he wondered

(11:45):
if she had given him something to turn his infatuation
into something deeper. Her wary smile told him she had not.
The magician lowered his mouth to the red liquid of
the pond and drank as much as he could without choking.
Your face is a mess, she said. When he sat
back up again, A cold breeze blew across the pond,

(12:06):
capsizing some of the sailboats. They left as kids started
crying and parents began swearing and making phone calls to
the city water department.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
Five.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
They spent Monday through Friday playing phone tag, always missing
each other. The alchemist was busy with guild meetings, dinner
with friends, and deadlines. She watched the magician's anger when
he couldn't spend time with her. She worried over his brooding.
She tried to educate him about balance and object integrity.

(12:38):
The magician left flowers that bloomed into other flowers on
her doorstep. He made her a box of endless chocolates.
The treffles made me a little sick, she admitted later.
I turned them into toffees less intense, I guess with
little gestures and words. She tried to keep both of
them safe, even though he was such a pretty magician. Six,

(13:02):
show me a trick, the alchemist said to the magician.
They sat at a booth in a restaurant where the
food was much too greasy. But she had sprinkled her
own salt on top of the fried blintzes to turn
them nourishing and healthy without losing any taste. She turned
their sprites into gin and tonics, and both of them
were tipsy. The magician put on a smile and held

(13:22):
up his fork. It drooped in the middle. She laughed
and brushed her fingers across his forearm. He felt a
chasm between them, even though she sat two feet away.
More please, she sucked on her straw. He liked the
way alcohol softened her. Magic is fussy, it comes and goes,
he said. It's an art, not a science. He said

(13:44):
the words that all magicians are taught to say in
order to hide their inadequacy. And if you want to
hide your inadequacy, you can buy a brand new car
from cars Are Bus. I hope that's not a real.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Thing, but I feel like there are brands that are
very similar to that.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
I was gonna be like cart Calm, but that's probably real.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
There's ones that are like, get your car from a
vending machine type shit, and I'm like, sure.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, why not. You can get anything from any of
our sponsors. You call them. They will sell you anything
that you ask for, as long as it's legal to sell.
And not a crime for me to say that you
should call them to ask for But here are those ads,

(14:50):
and we're back. She nodded and yawned into the palm
of her hand. He was losing her. The magician ran
his hand through her hair as much remind himself that
he could. As for the feel of her tangled curls
that came undone beneath his touch. Magic can be dangerous,
he said. He sipped the perfectly balanced gin and tonic
for small things. It will act predictably, but it's like electricity,

(15:14):
always taking the most direct path home, and the bigger
the magic. The mor can spark and spike. His hands
shook and he looked away, explaining any of it made
him feel naked in a new way. But you're a
really good magician, right, the alchemist asked.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
He nodded.

Speaker 2 (15:30):
He wanted it to be true, and besides, she looked
so interested. There is one trick, my best trick, he said.
Maybe she would finally be the girl who liked it.
Drink all of that, he ordered her, and then took
a big gulp of his own drink. Let's go to
my place. The magician pulled five dollar bills out of
his nose until he had enough to cover the bill.

(15:52):
He clutched her hand as they walked through the dusky
city and up the stairs to his apartment. A month ago.
She turned and his dryer lint into lavender seeds, and
the whole place smelt hopeful. The magician took off his
vest and hat, and gestured for the alchemist to sit
at his kitchen table for tonight and one night only.
He began come see the magician's most daring and death,

(16:13):
the fine trick. He paused and studied the curl of
her smile. Her fingers twitched and a pack of cards
appeared in one hand. She raised an unimpressed eyebrow. Good
start with low stakes, as though nothing interesting would happen.
He threw the cards up into the air and they
burst into tiny fireworks before disappearing. He coughed and then

(16:34):
pulled a three foot long rapier out of his mouth.
The razor sharp edge cut the top of his palate
and his mouth filled with blood. The alchemist applauded it
was time. We are ready for this, He decided. For
my next trick, I will need an assistant. Is there
anyone in the audience, any brave girl willing to help?
The alchemist raised her hand, and the magician spent a

(16:55):
long moment scanning his lazy boy his fish tank in
the stereo before finally noticing her. Ah, yes, you fine lady.
What is your name? The alchemist? She said primly, Ah,
a perfumest in the house. How lovely. She stuck her
tongue out and took his outstretched hand. You sure about this,
he whispered, You trust me. You wanted that more than anything.

(17:18):
She hesitated, and then nodded. He led her into the
bedroom and over to the box that sat near his window.
It stood on sixteen legs, and every inch of it
was carved and painted with a faded carnival cobalt and umber.
The magician opened the lid and gestured for the alchemist
to lay down within it. The length of her body
went inside the box, while her head and feet stuck
out the ends. One thing, she said, looking a bit frozen.

(17:42):
If I say stop, you have to Her boundary hit
the magician like a slap. He smiled, shut the lid
to the box, and slid four different bolts shut. The
magician opened a slim drawer in the side of the
box and took out two panes of glass, knife sharpened
along one edge. His hands trembled as he showed them
to her. Peering through them and smiling, The colors of

(18:05):
her face bleached out to white. Magic and need bubbled
through him, seeking release. He took the sheets and held
them above the perfectly fitted slots of the box that
lay just above her belly. She cleared her throat, about
to say something, maybe about leaving him. We both need this,
he thought. It will bring us closer. He plunged the
panes of glass into her through her magic flushed through him,

(18:28):
hard and down. It caught on her spinal cord before
slicing through. She screamed, quiet, it doesn't hurt. He said,
that was part of the trick. The magician didn't look
at her face, but knelt down and rolled away the
two separate pieces of the box. Through the glass, he
could see her internal landscape. She can't hide from me anymore,
he thought. Her scream turned into a short, panting breath.

(18:51):
Look away, she whispered. Please. He had already split her
in two, so how could he resist. He turned torso
side and watched a lovely redcarp flit about, moving in
and out of her undulating organs. Its mouth gaped in
open o shape around her stomach. He saw Grandma curled
up and sleeping with her grandchild. The magician smiled and

(19:12):
peered closer. Something tar like oozed around her liver, taking
on shadowy menacing forms. Please stop, put me back together, Please,
she begged. It doesn't hurt, the magician repeated. Everyone is
so sure it will hurt, but it doesn't. I'm a
good magician, so it doesn't. The magician turned to look
into her lower half. At the center lay a coiled

(19:34):
pit viper, who pulled back its head and struck at
the glass. He studied the marrow of her slit bones
and watched rainbow swirling through her left side. A whispering
came from her right. He leaned close, but he couldn't
make out any of the words. You're way more amazing
than any other woman I've looked into, not that there's
been many, he added, hurriedly, not wanting her to think
this meant nothing to him. When he was done, he

(19:57):
pushed the two sides of the box back together and
looked at her face. Her eyes looked cartoonish and huge.
It doesn't hurt, he whispered. It may be shocking, but
there's no pain.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Right.

Speaker 2 (20:08):
He took out four more panes of glass to separate
her legs from each other, and to sever a section
of her torso off. There was still so much more
to see. He saw everything, and she made sense to him.
Now He saw that she loved him in the curl
of bright green leaves growing through her steadfast heart. Feeling
sated and a little faint, he pushed the box back
together and pulled out the panes of glass streaked with

(20:29):
red and a faint sheen of viscerah. He held his
hand over the box, let magic flow out and through him,
putting her back together until he became empty. He unlocked
the box and pulled her limp form out, pulling her
into his arms. She wouldn't look at him and kept
her face turned away like a stubborn child. He went
to go get two glasses of water from the kitchen.

(20:51):
She had lost fluids and was probably thirsty. He couldn't
wait to tell her what he'd seen, what he knew now.
When he came back, she was gone. She turned the
front door into a massive wasp nest and written a
note she left on the box. I warned you. He
started crying. He thought she'd be the one who would

(21:12):
be a good box girl. He had hoped an alchemist
would understand him, and she loved him. He knew that
he'd seen it. Maybe she needed a little time. He
turned back to the box and ran a finger along
one of the glass panes. He touched his reddened finger
to his tongue, tasting her It held nuances of smoke, rain,
and fresh bread. He took each of the glass panes

(21:34):
and licked them clean. The magician slept an uneasy sleep
and woke with the feeling that his half remembered dreams
had all been violent. He got up to make his
coffee and felt a weight and shift of gravity within
his body. Something fluttered in his belly, and he ran
to the bathroom. Just getting to the toilet, as he
started throwing up, red carp slipped out of his throat

(21:55):
and into the toilet bowl. They swam in circles in
the water. He ran a hand through his hair and
it felt thick and curly like the alchemist's. When he peed,
he felt the sting of snake venom, burning as urethra
from the inside. He called the Alchemist and left her
a long message, saying that he missed her and loved her,
and that yesterday had been the best moment of his life.

(22:17):
His voice squawked and brayed like a teenager's. Not knowing
what to do, he made eggs and toast, but they
tasted wrong in his mouth. He drank black coffee instead,
just like she liked it. Wasps swarmed around his food,
stealing tiny chunks with their front legs and buzzing around him.
He left her another message, saying some weird things were happening,

(22:38):
what should he do to change back? Then he left
another telling her how beautiful she was inside and out,
but mostly inside. Two days later, he started to shake.
At first, it was a physical sensation, but it invaded everything,
and he panicked, unable to calm down, to sit still,
to do anything but freak out. Someone had cut him

(22:58):
up into pieces. He loved, had done that and liked it,
and he couldn't catch his breath. And also that someone
was him, and he had loved it, and he had
cried and cried loud and ugly. He went to his
box and came close to destroying him, but parts of
him were still him, so he did not. The panic
turned a grayness to a nothingness, like he sat in

(23:20):
a shroud of clouds and could touch nothing, feel nothing.
He needed her, he thought, numbly. She had done this
to him, she had destroyed him. He didn't want to
know what it felt like to have a magician cut
you in half and love it, even as you begged
him to stop. But she had invaded him with herself.
He sickened himself, and he was himself. He wrote on

(23:42):
a piece of paper, I get it. I know what
I did, and tied it to his pigeon's foot, sending
it out to find her. When the pigeon came back,
he wrote another note. You warned me. I get it now,
and you should have told me how dangerous you are.
Even as he wrote the words, he knew that she
had told him and he hadn't listened. He called more

(24:05):
magic into him than ever before and tried to make
a spell that would turn back time. He tried to
change fact into fiction, to erase his own memory, to
become wise and not care about any of this. He
failed over and over again. He had never been a
very good magician. The end, yay, I.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Took a lot of notes.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Cool.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
That was really good.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
It gets kind of intense. I have to admit I
liked it.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
It was like I was like slowburn, slowburn, sloburn fire. Yeah.
My favorite line I wrote it down was I keep
all of my tricks small so I don't scare people.
That is an incredible line. Yeah. Wow, Yeah, Another part
that I thought was interesting was the flower choice because

(24:58):
the evolution of the cowl and like the meaning behind it,
Like originally I think it was back in Egypt, it meant,
you know, the meaning behind it, the symbolism behind it
was more of like sexuality, and it's matured throughout the
years to mean more of like And I'm thinking, just
broadly speaking, is more of you know, union and purity

(25:21):
and marriage and things like that. So it's interesting, it's interesting. Interesting,
that choice of flowers interesting to me. And I don't
know if that's what the author had in mind, but
that's what came to my weird plant loving brain.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah. No, I wouldn't be surprised if that was a
conscious choice. But I love all of the symbols throughout it,
all the car the lavender seeds, the like. This is
such a beautiful story and yet I mean it's so brutal. Yeah,
but it, like I understand why fiction has to engage

(25:57):
with like really hard and complex and dark subjects, right,
in order to say a lot of true and meaningful things,
you have to sometimes go a little dark. And I
feel like the average author doesn't really earn that, you know,
like the average author is just like and now for
some shock value, and then like, this story is about

(26:18):
a consent violation and it is framed non sexually on purpose,
and it is like really clear. Like it's like, oh,
let's talk about what the story is. But to me,
it's just it's so clear. It's like the story says
it better than what I could think of to say
about it. In most ways.

Speaker 1 (26:36):
It started off where I was like, this is giving
very much five hundred days of Summer vibes, where it's like,
I don't know if you've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
That movie, I don't think so. Is that is that one?
Is like a manic Pixie dream girl.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
It's it's a story where you're seeing two versions of
a love story that isn't actually a love story.

Speaker 3 (26:55):
Oh and uh.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
The male protagonist is protagonist in quotes, is definitely more
into her than she's into him. But he has this
version of what's happening within their relationship that is his
made up version, and it's actually not the love story

(27:18):
that the audience thinks is unfolding, and you get the
real versions of what's actually happening. And it's very much
that he's so much into more into her, which I
think is something that happens in this episode. And there's
you know, different boundaries that are that are not respected,
and it starts off I feel like the story starts
off with a lot of that, the same metaphors, and

(27:39):
then it gets lit on fire, which is and like
they could have done that in five and Day Summer
and it would have been really cool. Yeah, but I
think there's just so many ways that this magician. First
of all, don't match with a witchy woman, don't don't
mess with a witchy woman. She has magical powers.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yeah, goodness in your apartment, it's not going to be good. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah. I think this is just a really interesting story
about why boundaries are so important and why you should
listen to people when they say things too. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:13):
And one of the things I like about it is
that it's like she likes him. Most of the stories,
most of the like stories about even like male violence
for example, are always framed in this sort of black
and white like, oh, well, just this man is a
monster and everyone knows he's a monster, or even he's

(28:36):
a secret monster.

Speaker 1 (28:37):
But not.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
But like in a not realistic way, this feels like
such a realistic Yeah, like it's just so funny because
it's about an alchemist and a magician. We're both literally
alchemists and magicians. But it at the same time, it's
like more realistic of a relationship dynamic than like almost
anything I read.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
I will say he does start showing his red flags early.
It's true, like different different lines, like telling her to
show him what she can really do, worrying about religious
folks seeing, and worrying about what people think. Yeah, I
think he said something like I liked the way the
alcohol softened her.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yes, gross, that's like the creepiest line. And no, there's
creepier lines, but that's one of them.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
That's one of the top creepy lines. And then I
wrote I think.

Speaker 3 (29:26):
I hate him a question mark.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Yeah, yeah, that's where it is.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
And then he like directly disrespects her in public and
belittles that it calls her a perfumist instead of an alchemist.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
And oh see, I thought that was a I think
that was like him being clever, like doing a joke
between that. I think that was like an inside joke
between the two of them.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
I think it was I read it read I read
it as negative, read it as like he does fake magic,
she does real magic. So he's going to belitteral her title.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
Yeah, no, no, I wouldn't put it past him, and like, yeah,
I dislike him as soon as he's like even though
this is such a real line and it's like a
pretty good male written by a non male author, moment
is like, oh, I accidentally hit her in the boob.
It's the kind of boob I like, yeah, you know,
like big and droopy or round and droopy or something

(30:18):
like that.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
And it's just like, I was just gonna ask, is
there a We often see this split her into split
her in half metaphor within literature and within you know,
just artsy media in general. Is there a bigger meaning
behind that to you? Or did you take it more
literally like he was doing a trick or was it

(30:40):
that he was trying to uh morph her some way?

Speaker 2 (30:46):
I took it kind of literally. I think it's like
I mean, I think it's like a metaphor for like
I mean, when you do something intense with someone doesn't
even have to be a metaphors for something sexual. Sometimes
when you do something really intense with someone, you're gonna
like see inside them, You're going to see them past
the boundaries that they try to keep people away from, right,
And so he's looking inside of her, and it's this

(31:08):
this clever way I think to be able to like frame,
he got to see what was really inside her, He
got to like see her completely, like more than naked.

Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, you know he called her a good box girl
and that made my skin crawl.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
And then like it's funny because upon rereading it the
first the first section is afterwards like it's and so
he's like, now he's just doing magic tricks at you know,
a kid's birthday party or whatever, and he misses her
and but he doesn't really He's like, when am I
gonna find my good lie?

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Do you catch that that he got downgraded from big
show to kids birthday party? Yeah, that's so interesting.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
I just like this was, you know, super relatable to
a lot of people's ex experience dating and having their
boundaries disrespected. Yeah, and I felt like she and you know,
he says it at the end, he says something like
you should have told me how dangerous you are. And
then he was like you did, And it's like, first
of all, she has magical powers, bro. Second of all,

(32:17):
you chose not to listen, tell us your choice. You
chose to disrespect your boundaries and you went too far
and you'll regret that the rest of your life. But yeah,
the only person you can be mad at here is yourself.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Like, it would be so such an interesting version of
this story where she's like never mind and he's like okay,
and they like almost do this really dangerous thing together,
but she's like nope, I'm good, I gotta stop, and
then they like go back to like cause that's like
a that's such a real relationship thing too, right as

(32:53):
you have those moments where you're like, oh, are we
doing this thing? And you're like, yeah, we're doing this thing,
and then you're like wait no and both people are
like oh did we'd go too far? But you actually
talk about it and you don't do what this man
did that I don't know anyway, this version of the
story is clearly the better way to do it, but

(33:15):
it's like it would be an interesting comparison to make,
you know.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah, I mean it could be the type of thing
like going back to five hundred Days of Summer where
you see the idealized version of the story versus what
actually happened and having those two comparisons look at like
what could have been?

Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah, yeah, Like what is the version that each of
them will tell their grandkids happened.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
I don't think she'll tell her grandkids anything happened. I
think she'll no.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
And I don't think he'll ever have kids.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
And I don't think he'll ever have kids. One and two.
I don't think he is a strong enough person to
admit what actually happened here, and so he would tell
some ridiculous story that's not actually accurate in anyway she
performed that makes him look better than he is.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
I think that as the years go by, it would
become further and further divorced from reality. I think he would,
you know, by the time he is by the time
those kids and grandkids, he'd be like, oh, the love
that got away from me, because you know, this one
thing that she was to anyway, whatever, Well, what the
author had to say about it, I asked Catherine Sparrow.

(34:27):
She wrote, when I wrote it, I was feeling feistier
than usual about the ways that romance and straight love
are often told in the rosy patriarchal glow of consent
violations and boundary crossings, and I hate that. God, I
love her. I know it's so good.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Oh, Catherine, what a fantastic author. You are just amazing.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
I am really excited to read more by her. Yeah,
and I asked for plugs and she said, as far
as plugs. The Fay Morgan Chronicles or some ebooks available
at Amazon, and they are about a modern day Morgan
le Fay who is a long lived anarchist witch fighting
the power and grumpily saving the world. So that might
be up some people's alleys who are listening to this.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
That's so freaking cool. Yeah, awesome. I enjoyed this so much.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
But yeah, thanks for thanks for being guessed on Cool
Zone Media book Club if people want to check out.
If you're listening on this on the It Could Happen
Here feed, I have another cool Zone Media podcast called
Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff? And if you're listening
to this on the Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff Feed,
there's another Cool Zone Media podcast called it Could Happen
Here that is a daily look at all of the

(35:39):
things happening in the world that should or shouldn't be happening.
That's your al's official tagline, right.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
We're chronicling collapse as it happens.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, that's a better way to put it. Yeah, all right, Well,
see you all next week.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Nie. It could Happen Here as a production of cool
Zone Media. For more podcasts from coal Zone Media, visit
our website coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
You can find sources for It could Happen Here, updated

(36:15):
monthly at coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.