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June 22, 2022 49 mins

Ally is joined by comedian and multihyphenate Wyatt Cenac to discuss making his way through the comedy world and the valuable lessons he’s learned through working in entertainment.

This episode was produced by Isaac Lee of Koldwater Audio.

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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Today's podcast is sponsored by Sea Geek. If you didn't know,
see Geek is the official ticketing partner of the Brooklyn
Whether you're trying to go to a Nets game, Liberty Game, concert,
or any other event at Barclay Center, you really only
need Sea Geek. Welcome to Courtside Conversation. I'm your girl,

(00:31):
Ali Love. After years on the Heartwood as the in
arena host for the Brooklyn Nets, It's time for me
to take a courtside. We're here with artists, athletes, and
all of our favorite people to break down the game
called life. We're getting real about the grow up and
the glow up. So let's take a seat. Comedian, actor, producer, writer,

(00:58):
and native New Yorker I Guess Day does it all Now.
You may recognize him from The Daily Show, King of
the Hill, Nickelodeon, or even his own Netflix comedy special.
Prepare yourselves for some good laughs and great insight because
we are taking at courtside with Wyatt's Sinak. What's up, everybody?

(01:19):
Welcome to Courtside Conversation. I'm your girl, Ali Love, and
I have a special guest. Whyatt Senak? He is a comedian,
He's a host he's an actor and he's a really
down to earth, homebred Brooklyn guy. I'm so excited that
you are here. Wyatt. Now some of you may know
him HBO. He's the host producer of Wyatt Sinac Problems

(01:39):
areas where you talk about social and cultural issues around
the US. One of my favorites. Also, my first introjection
to you was actually the Daily Show John Steward. We
can go on and on and we'll get into some
of that, but first let's check in in this day
and age. I think the question that most of us
are asking but then not fairly answering, is how are

(02:00):
you doing? That is a very good question. I feel
like that is. Yeah, it's such a good question, because yeah,
it's such the answer is, so how many podcast episodes
do we have to just devote to the answer? Um?
It could take, it could take what I feel like
I'm doing all right? You know, I think like everyone

(02:23):
there ups and downs, and it seems like the biggest
thing is trying to make sure you have uh, the
time and the space to deal with the downs and
you have the outlets to kind of burn off that
energy as you need to in healthy ways. And so
I feel like in that. In that regard, I feel
pretty good. I've got resources, have got people for the

(02:45):
down moments. I've also got those people and resources for
the up moments. What is that when the down moments happened?
Because I can say right now, Um, no matter when
you're listening to this, unfortunately, a mass shooting is has
probably happened at some Capac city in your lifetime, no
matter your age, and if you are tuning in. And
so we're right now in the midst of another mass shooting,

(03:08):
and I can tell you waking up with a heavy heart.
I mean that's a luxury to be honest, given what
the families and friends and those that are that have
passed on and we're murdered actually are going through. So
when you're talking about those down moments, because you're talking
about a lot of things including you know, like we said,
social and cultural issues, what we're living right now, what

(03:29):
are some of those resources in the down moments? Give
us some help us out here, help me out, okay? Um,
you know, I think some of it is just being
able to have other people to talk to about these things,
you know, I think it is such a such a
difficult thing to wrap your head around when something's so

(03:49):
horrific happens, and to do it by yourself is you're
only gonna kind of spinning and focus on all the
things that break your heart and sometimes being able to
talk to other people. One, there's that shared that shared

(04:09):
empathy that comes from I see you're hurting, I'm hurting.
Two we can both talk about our hurt together. But
also maybe we can, in talking about it, start trying
to talk about what it is that we can do,
not just for ourselves to to move beyond this moment,

(04:30):
but how do we do things as a society, as
a group of people. Two try to at least curtail
some of these things, because the sad reality is you're
never gonna get rid of the problems that we are
continually faced with as society. But there are things you

(04:53):
can do and steps you can take to try to
limit those things or at least to mitigate them or
slow them down. And you know, I think it starts
with those conversations you have with another person as a
way to process that. But the more conversations, the more
people talking, that's how movements grow. That's how movements happen.

(05:16):
It's that concert of voices collectively coming together and saying
we want change or figuring out how to make change.
It may be talking to that person who is a
lawyer who's like, oh, you know what, Like, let's see
how the legal system. Maybe there's something here we can
do that you know, goes beyond voting, that we can

(05:37):
do to sort of limit, you know, the power of
lobbying dollars that allow legislation. Uh that is way too
friendly to gun control. Uh, you know too Sorry, not
gun control, but to gun rights activists like and the
n r A. Let's like, maybe there are steps we

(05:58):
could take that way. Maybe there are other things we
can do, Maybe we can talk to politicians. But I
think it starts with those conversations and just opening your
heart up to other people, and also both as someone
talking and as someone listening. As a comedian, which I

(06:18):
think is one of the hardest skill set. I am
not funny by any measure or sense of funnness. No, no, no, people,
I am. I'm I own my space. People laugh at me,
and that's what I love. Not with me. I'm the
person who sells a punchline before the joke it gets
all confusing. I can host in front of millions of people.
I cannot tell a joke. I have to read it
off of paper. But what I recognize about comedians and

(06:41):
why I adore y'all so much, is that you have
your It's it's a pretty powerful position. It's not just
making someone laugh. It's making someone laugh, it's making them
laugh twenty times in three minutes um. But also it's
thought provoking. Right, Your job is is somewhat in some
capacity to how do you say, like rub a sensitive

(07:02):
area for you to either think, for you to question,
for you to get irritated, will still lead you to
think and question. So it's it's kind of like the
cycle that you invoked by just a joke and not
and it's not even just a joke, but but the
technique of of being a comedian and what you've done
so well and which is why you have this HBO
show and even on you know, the Daily Stow when

(07:23):
it was around and even funnier Die, is that you
have this ability to get in there and to make
us think, to make us question where did this come from?
Like when did this start for you? And at what
age did you know this is what I'm meant to do?
I didn't. I didn't always know. I think I you know,

(07:43):
as a kid, I was like you, I told the
punchline before the setup, and I always wanted to be funny,
and I always I I admired comedians and I was
I could never tell a joke to save my life.
And then I feel like there was a moment when

(08:04):
I was I don't know how old I must have been,
maybe like eleven or twelve, and I was at a
friend's house and my friend, my friend Brian. He was
the funniest kid I knew, and I could never say
anything that would make Brian laugh. But Brian always had
me in stitches. And I remember another friend of Brian's

(08:26):
was around and I just started I just started making
her laugh and like and it was this thing where
I felt the the joy of it. And maybe it
was because it was something that for so long I
had wanted to be able to do. The moment I

(08:47):
heard somebody laugh and it felt like, Oh, I'm actually
steering this ship, I'm controlling this That became such an
amazing feeling that I then just continue to kind of
chase and obsess over. And you know, I think to
your point, as far as using comedy as a way

(09:08):
to kind of look at conversations that we may or
may not be having in society. I that I feel like,
I feel like just came from growing up as a
black person in America. Where you are, you are faced

(09:29):
with so many injustices, not just the things that you
see that are happening directly to you or to you
as a people, but I think there's also an empathy
when you watch it happen to people of other races
or people of you know, different religions or different backgrounds,

(09:51):
where it's like, oh, I see what they're doing to you.
They do that to us too. I think in in
that it's seeing all those things that it's hard to
it's hard to to live a life and blow past
that like those things don't exist. So it feels like, well, okay,

(10:14):
I'm always being confronted with things, with these things, if
I can use comedy as a way to also process
some of that for myself, but talk about it, and again,
like we talked about earlier, that those connections you make
in dialogue with other people, stand up is a dialogue too.
It's just a one sided dialogue where I talk, but

(10:36):
you respond with laughter or with booze or with applause,
and so there's a dialogue happening there as well, and
so it just felt like, well, these are the things
that I'm always seeing, So why don't we all talk
about this? And uh, maybe with some laughter it's a
way to kind of open the door to those conversations.

(10:59):
That's scenario. You say some material you're you know, whether
it's a scatch with whether it's speaking material comes out,
people respond with a laughter. What's the worst case scenario?
Is it? Are is it when people are booing or
is it silence? Um? I mean, I guess it would
be it would be silence more than booing, because at

(11:21):
least with booing. And I'll be honest with I with
either of them, I think it's actually fine. I think
you're okay. It's like you're fine, You're like, it doesn't penetrate.
If someone is booing you or there's silence in the room,
it hurts. But I think what would hurt more is

(11:42):
if everybody walks out, because if there's silence or if
they're booze, they're still engaged in what's going on. And
so I think, you know, some of the most talented
comedian that I've ever seen are people who still deal

(12:05):
with the room and what's going on in the room.
And there's the late comedian Patrice O'Neil was a master
at that, where he would infuriate people in the audience,
but then he would engage with them, and it was
this dialogue as far as like, all right, you're upset,

(12:28):
but let's talk about it, and let's talk about what's
going on, or I'm gonna try to make my case.
And so I think in that way, yes, even silence,
there's still the opportunity to be like, Okay, that didn't work,
What like what happened here? Where did I lose you?
You know? And some people might be like there might

(12:50):
be one person in the audience who was like they
may answer and then it's like all right, now we're back,
we're we're in it, we're connected. But yeah, I think
the worst would be if the entire audience collectively just
got up and walked out. Being a comedian back in
the day was like one of those skill sets that
was very unique in the sense that you're going to

(13:12):
make a career out of it. It's not easy to
do to make a career out of anything. These days,
but let alone a comedian, they're late hours. I mean,
it's it's it's a very small group of folks that
make it on to the next level, whether it's movies,
whether it's a TV show, as you've done your own show,
multiple Netflix series which you've done, you know, was there

(13:33):
ever a point of contention or internal conflict for those
that are listening that are just like, I feel like
when I see a comedian, I can do this, But
can I really do this? Can I support myself? Can
I make it in that small that I have the needle?
When was that moment for you of and was there
ever a moment of internal conflict where you're just like,
am I really going to pursue this knowing that there's

(13:54):
only a few of us that make it? Right? Only
only people in the n b A, like, it's only
X and of comedians that really make it? Or should
I turn around now and use it and leverage a
different skill set? Right? I I don't know that that conversation.
I don't know that you ever stop having that conversation

(14:16):
because I think to your point, it is like there
is a rarefied air if you can, you know, quote
unquote make it but we live in a time where
there is no job security, there is no all right
you are you know, you could be the greatest comedian

(14:39):
of this moment, but that's just this moment. There's somebody
else who's gonna pop up and they're going to be
that person. And I always I feel like, even before
I started doing comedy professionally where I was getting paid
for it, I always found myself looking at if you

(15:01):
looked at like movies with comedians and like those starring movies.
The one thing that always struck me as interesting was
that there was a pattern that you you would see
that like, Okay, Bill Murray has like four or five
movies where he's box Office Gold, and then it stops,

(15:25):
and then it's like Eddie Murphy his box Office Gold
for like six or seven movies, and then they become flops.
And then it's Steve Martin, and then it's Will Ferrell,
and then it's Kevin Hart, and then it's Tiffany Hattish
and you The thing that I've it felt like I
always saw was that most of these comics, at best,

(15:47):
if they were lucky, got on average like four big
things and then it was okay, how do you pivot.
How do you like? It wasn't the security of like
Bob Hope, where it's like you're gonna get a you're
gonna get a movie every year and you've got a
guarantee TV special and all this stuff. It's like none.

(16:08):
You you gotta figure out what it is that as
the winds change, how do you shift with those? But
also are you are you just shifting with the winds
or are you doing things that you enjoy and that
brings you some sense of fulfillment, Because I think the

(16:30):
other challenge with that is those winds are always gonna shift,
and if all you were doing was chasing the wind
when they shift past you, then what do you have?
You know, like it becomes a thing of like if
what you were doing, if making people laugh, of getting
on stage and make people laugh was truly what you enjoyed,

(16:53):
then you'll find ways to keep doing that. But if
the idea was I want to be the biggest celebrity,
when you're not the biggest celebrity, what do you what
do you have at that point? And so I feel
like that's the thing that I always tried to keep
in mind was just focus on the things that you

(17:15):
enjoy and find a way to make the things you
enjoy enough to like keep a roof over your head
and meals in your belly and do those things that
inspire you because that's where you put your best energy
and effort into. But also then you're not chasing, You're

(17:40):
not chasing something, You're just charting your own path. Today's
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(18:01):
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It's interesting because I feel like that's a theme for
me this week. I was having a conversation. I do
these short segments called Mind over Matter, and um, they're

(18:22):
they're also with athletes, and so I was talking to
Christian McCaffrey, the NFL player, and he was saying, I
do everything with purpose, And that's exactly what you're saying,
is like, if you had if you identify what your purposes.
Then you can apply that purpose, whether it's practice, whether
it's writing material, whether it's producing, whether it's on stage.
And when you look at the other players or the

(18:42):
other comedians or the other folks around you that are
playing in similar spaces, you can almost cheer them on
because your north star is your north star. You've identified
that metric for success, the things that make you happy
that align with your purpose. And you're not. In your words,
which gave me the visual of Pocahon is staying on
the top of the mountain. Um, real pocon is. But
either way, any other top of the mountain. You know,

(19:04):
colors are the rainbow in the wind or whatever. Yeah,
you're not, just like you're not moving with the wind
for you as it pertains too. And maybe this is
a two part or maybe it's like in your professional
life and in your personal life, UM, to really get
to know you, what's a non negotiable for you? Like
when you think of like professionally, as you're lining up
for a job, or you're going in for a meeting,
or you're about to step on in front of the

(19:24):
camera on stage, this is a non negotiable for you.
But why it in b k like, what's a non negotiable? Wow,
what's a non negotiable? Um? You know, I think, uh,
probably the the ability to say stop or to say

(19:49):
no to if if I did not have that, I
feel like that's non negotiable in that. In that, I
feel like there's some any things where you can kind
of especially in in life, if you take a job
and there's something that's not comfortable to you. That too

(20:15):
often we you know, we're in jobs where it's like, well,
you're uncomfortable, but just just grin and bear it and
push through. And I feel like the ability to say stop,
hold on, this isn't making me comfortable. This isn't whether

(20:36):
it's the job itself or whether it's a moment in
the job, that ability to say stop, I need a minute, uh,
and I need to I need to be able to
to either express these things and hopefully have something change
or the ability to walk away. UM. I feel like

(20:57):
those things are uh the non negotiable. I'm not done
a lot of movies, but I've done enough. And I
remember doing a movie and the weird thing about like
a movie is, you know it'll take anywhere from you know,

(21:18):
two weeks to a month to make. And I remember
once making a movie and we're probably about like a
third of the way into it, so maybe we'd already
shot like ten days of this movie, and I remember
thinking to myself, Oh, wow, this movie could be a turd,

(21:42):
Like it could be terrible. Well, like you just from
the material you've seen so far. Yeah, I think because
once we started, there were things going in before we
before we shot anything, it was like, oh, yeah, this
seems like it's a fun idea. It seems like, you know,
everybody seems on board. The directors seem like they you know,

(22:06):
they're interested in hearing our input. They like they seem
excited by the idea. The script seems to make sense,
like there's definitely some jokes that could be funnier, and
we'll be able to do that, you know, as we're
working on it. And then yeah, about like ten days
in it was I think the first day you shoot,

(22:28):
it's like, okay, that was okay, like we're you know,
we're getting our feet wet. And then two three more
days in it's like okay, yeah, that scene that still
wasn't that funny. We didn't really get to fix it,
but all right, there'll be other scenes. And then about
ten days in it was like, oh no, this is
this could be a turd. But I can't walk away

(22:48):
from this. This isn't like. This isn't like another job
where I could say, like you know what, I'm out,
like I like, they can't replace me, like to do
that would mean they'd have to reshoot all ten days
they already shot. And I think it was going through
that experience. I remember talking to one of the other

(23:10):
actors in the film and it was like, this thing
could be a turd, and he was like yeah, and
and and there was something nice about us both being like, Okay,
we're in a turd. And then what became paramount to
us was we are in a turd, but how can

(23:31):
we what is it that we can do? How can we,
at least in this process try to make this smell
slightly less bad? And in some ways that became you know,
we had to find ways in an already moving thing
to do that. But that experience also it made it

(23:53):
very clear to me that Okay, you need to make
sure that throughout any experience that you work in, there
is that ability to say stop and to say hold
on a second, like this is this isn't serving me,
or it's not serving us, or it's not serving that person,

(24:14):
And we got to fix this because even if it's
gonna be a turd, at least, let it be a
turd that we all can walk away from saying like,
all right, at least we tried, at least we gave it.
Are all at least, and at least we felt heard
and enjoyed ourselves. While you know, still still a turd,

(24:36):
but we at least say we had we had the
best time possible making it. There you go, still a turd.
I don't know why that makes you giggle, like I'm
an elementary school, but that's what it's supposed to do.
So it landed very well with this audience. Un let's
up into some game time moments. One of the things
that we talked about for people who are hyper performers,

(24:57):
whether you're an athlete, you're a comedian, or is all
of our favorite people, um are those moments of struggle?
What is how do you define struggle? Struggle? I feel
like it's, you know, if you have a goal in mind,
and I think it's moving towards that goal. I feel like,

(25:19):
once you have a goal, then you accept struggle and
that maybe you know, if you're an athlete and your
goal is to win a championship, it's not supposed to
be a cake walk to the championship. So you know,
the moment you say I want to win a championship,

(25:40):
you have opened the door for struggle and knowing that,
it's like, okay, then that is what you are accepting
to try to get to that goal. And so I
think once you set a goal, you've also set a
struggle once you you know, it's it's any of those things.

(26:03):
It's you know to think about. Uh, you get on
a bike and you set a resistance. The goal is
exactly the goal is to ride for twenty minutes or
an hour, but it's not to it's not to ride
on the lowest setting. It's two put some resistance and
to continue to add that resistance. And yeah, I can't,

(26:27):
I can't do it as eloquently as you, but doing
a great job. I was like, are we are you
auditioning right now? Like I mean instructor, Yeah, turn the
knob to the right. All right, let's just let's just
add a little more. There we go there, we go
down and turn that knob. Let's keep turning the knob. Um,
let's turn the knob at this game time moment to

(26:48):
gratitude or to grace. Tell me one person, maybe it's
people where you would say that that has attribute to
your experience of getting you to where you are, like
a figures like has Linda Hannon? If so? How so sure? Um?
From a from a comedy standpoint, I would say, Uh,

(27:10):
Colin Quinn is probably the person who I throughout my
life has really played like a huge role. And Colin
was He was on Saturday Night Live. He's a stand
up comedian, very very funny stand up comedian. But in

(27:33):
the nineties he was on Saturday Night Live. And my
first job in any of this world when I was
nineteen years old, I got an internship on Saturday Night Live,
and Colin was somebody who made time for me and

(27:54):
answered any question I had. And I would try to
write sketches and Colin would read them and give me
notes on them and was so gracious with his time
when he didn't need to be. I mean, he was
like on television. He was a successful comedian and he
made that time for me at nineteen years old. And

(28:16):
then when I graduated college. Colin remembered those sketches I
wrote and just suggested me to the producers at SNL
for a writing job. And I didn't get the job,
but because of that, I got an agent and throughout
my life Colin. The day I decided I was going

(28:38):
to quit The Daily Show, randomly like you talk about
like just the random sort of magic of New York City,
I got off the train and I was like, I
think this, I think I'm done, And it was raining,
and I just happened to kind of like walk under

(29:02):
this awning of a building, and Colin also happened to
be there, but the he was leaving like his lawyer's office,
which was in this building, and I stood and we
talked for probably forty five minutes or so, and I

(29:22):
talked to him about the decision I was about to make,
and he talked me through it and just was like,
oh wow. At various points in my life, like I
have been fortunate enough to have his advice, to have
his counsel, to have his input, and yeah, So I
would say he is someone I've truly been grateful to

(29:47):
have had come in and out of my my life
and career as a comedian. I had the pleasure of
seeing I go to comedy seller on a certain day
every week my husband. Again, I'm a huge fan of
comedy so much so like I got at the same time,
you know the people at the door. I've been going
for years, and um, it was one of those shows

(30:09):
where Colin Quinn was actually hopped up on stage. You
don't know the lineup, you know how it goes hops
up on stage. And I will say the best gift
he gave me was the gift of laughter, which is
is a really valuable gift to me, especially at moments,
which is why I try to go on a weekly basis. Um,
but I have to ask you. You talked about the
story of Colin Quinn and how he was that moment

(30:29):
of gratitude that he was the assistant you know, for
you in this game moment um. But leaving the Daily Show,
I never looked this up, but I know I watched
a Daily Show up until it's very last show, and
then it trans transition to try to know, like all
the things still currently a fan of the show, what
was it that made you decide to leave? What? What
not even maybe made you decided to leave? This is

(30:50):
a better, better question. How did you know was the
right decision? You never know whether it's the right decision.
I think you could second guess it a dozen times
and come up with a dozen different answers. I think
for me, ultimately, it became a thing of happiness that

(31:16):
this was a job, that this was a job that
I had wanted for a very long time, and I
had hoped it would be one thing, and it became
something that did not bring me h a sense of
happiness personally, and then professionally it felt like I was

(31:38):
hitting a wall um and the and so it it
felt like to grow at both professionally and to grow
in a way that felt less toxic. It was like, Okay,
I think I have to I need to leave. And

(32:01):
that wasn't an easy decision because that's also I'm walking
away from a paycheck and you need those in in
in the world we live in. And so yeah, so
I've learned. So I've learned, yes, very much, so, but yeah,
so it's it's but I think it's one of those

(32:22):
things where you know, it's it's very easy to say,
if a job is making you unhappy, walk away from it.
It's very easy to say that on on the outside,
it's so difficult to do that, to make that decision.
And but I think again, if your goal, as if

(32:47):
you have a goal, whether it is two be fulfilled
in your career or two have a you know, a
healthy work life balance, you again going back to that
Peloton analogy, You're gonna have to reach down and set
that resistance and know that if there's a goal, there

(33:11):
is also the struggle. And so it's I think, you know,
I could have made myself comfortably numb in that job
and dealt with a lot of horrible ship that I
felt like I was experiencing. I could have gone numb
to that and been like, there's a paycheck. I come

(33:33):
in at you know, I come in at nine, I
dip out it six and you know, when I'm here,
I turn it all off and I don't react to
any of it. And I'll give my you know, six
energy and effort into this. But I'm not gonna stress
out or I'm not I'm gonna try not to stress
out and whatever, and I'm gonna collect this check and

(33:55):
it'll be what it will be. But that takes a
toll in other ways, and you could do that but
is that truly what you want to do, because you're
still there's still a struggle with that. There's still the
struggle of you go to you know, you go out
to eat with friends and they talk about the jobs
they're in and it's like, oh, they're not having to

(34:17):
they're not having to you know, deaden themselves the way
you are to to go into the office every day. Huh,
all right, well now is that do you like that feeling?
Do you like hearing them kind of like follow you know,
live their lives in a different way than you, and
not to say that you want their lives, but to
see that like, oh wait, there's a better way. There's

(34:40):
another Like they're working a job that isn't asking them
to you know, like deaden themselves inside. And also they're
ceiling is higher than yours. Because if all you're doing
is given of average word, you're probably not gonna get promoted.

(35:02):
You're probably you're probably gonna stay at that same level.
And so I think in those ways, it's like all right, yeah,
there's there's always going to be a struggle. It's what
goals do you choose to prioritize and if you choose
to prioritize goals that put your own health and well
being and happiness ahead of the you know, just I

(35:25):
can just keep making this paycheck, then yeah, there's gonna
be different struggle, but there's gonna be struggle regardless. It's
the struggles that you want to face versus the ones
you know that are gonna just not really not really
leave you at the end of the day with anything

(35:46):
other than yeah, that paycheck. But the listeners that potentially
will have are experiencing this exact internal conflict um and
making this decision soon just a little more insight. Did
you when you decided to leave? Did you have some
thing lined up or some things lined up? Or was
it more that your time was consumed on the on
the energy to leave. My time was consumed on leaving.

(36:13):
I tried. I think I definitely tried to have some
some things like some other irons in the fire, and
I tried to kind of like look to that. I
think more than anything, what I the main thing I
tried to do was let me save some money so

(36:35):
that I just have a cushion to land on, and
that I think the hardest thing is, like, you know,
you can quit a job and there may be another
job right around the corner. But everything, if you're in
a bad situation, you still probably want a moment to

(36:59):
catch your breath. You still probably want a moment to
recharge your battery, to heal, to to take to recover
and so and and to process at all, and to
recover and process it all in a way that's like, Okay,
now that I'm now that I've stepped away from this,
what are all the things I liked about that job?

(37:21):
What are all the things I didn't like about that job?
You know, and and use all that to decide again.
You know, thinking about athletics, you think about professional athletes,
and when someone decides to move to a different team,
very rarely is it like, well, the season ended on

(37:42):
April fifteen, and on April sixteenth, I've decided to take
my talents to South Beach. It's usually like, let's take
a let's take are still feeling that? Okay, that hurts them,
even though they there was some retribution, It still hurts that.
But there's But usually it's like, Okay, I need I

(38:04):
need some time. I need I need a few weeks
to just kind of like you know, wash off the
last the last season, and I need a few weeks
to just like recover and to think about what is
it that I need? Two to go to set my
goals towards what is it that I need? What is

(38:26):
it that I want? And so I think the biggest thing,
more than anything else, is I would say to anyone
who's thinking about a career change or anything like that,
is like, make sure you've got some cushion, make sure
you have some savings, make sure you have those resources,
you know, a therapist like that, you could talk to
somebody to help process that that you have, that you're

(38:49):
not just jumping and going right into the next thing,
because sometimes doing that, you're like you haven't You're still
your motors still going. You still haven't had that time
to just be like, Okay, take a minute, take a breath,
take take some time, go on a vacation, and just

(39:09):
like get you know, treat yourself for a little bit
and then reset and with a clear head, point your
you know, point your compass in a direction that you
want to go. I love it all right before I
let you go, Um two more things. We're gonna play
something which it's called I call it fire Rappid. I

(39:31):
know it's called rapid fire. Okay, it's it's it's my
it's my form of like second shot clock. So I'm
gonna ask you questions. You can't get a second shot
caught violation. When I go like this, it means you're
taking too long. You get more than two you have,
you get a zero in this game. The goal of
this on every episode is to see which of our

(39:52):
guests actually get the most right. Okay, what's the what's
the record so far? What am I going right now?
It's it's up for alps. We probably have like six
It's it's all kind of in the same area. So
I'm looking for an outstanding guests. I feel you got
it has a lot of pressure. Now, no, no, no, no,
I'm gonna I'm gonna put the timer on. I'm gonna

(40:13):
tee up the first question. So I'll give you the
first question before you answer, I'll press the timer. You
get to start with that one, and then I'll read
from there. Sounds good, okay, So the first question is
going to be don't answer you yet? Your favorite sport
to watch? Are your mark gets set? Basketball? Ad you
started your career? Nineteen? Favorite food rot great Reality TV?

(40:38):
Or scripted TV scripted What's who's your role model? Um?
Grandma switch places with anyone who gonna be Um, I'll
give you extra seconds. And I feel like my name

(40:59):
was coming up in there. We got seven that's still
better than our previous guests. Seven answers. Um. Wait, I
also got caught when you said road t I was like,
I also wanted to jump in and create a shot
violation for myself. Okay, yeah, what's in your roati? Is?
It just wrote to with some curry Like what we
got curry chicken? Um, sometimes sometimes curry goat. Uh. Yeah.

(41:24):
My father was from Grenada. My stepfather was from Trinidad.
I grew up I was born here and but grew
up in Texas. And so whenever my grandmother would come
to visit, my stepfather would always ask her to bring
rotary skins from Gloria's uh, and so she would have
to like freeze them and put them in her luggage,

(41:46):
so her luggage was always cold. Uh and then uh
we would just like feast on those. But in Texas
there wasn't at the time, there wasn't a lot of
like West Indian spots or like Caribbean spot and there
was an ice cream parlor called LaBelle Kreme and it
was owned by some Caribbean folks and like once a month,

(42:10):
on like a Sunday, out of the back of the
ice cream shop, they would make curry chicken and curry
goat and curry beef. And it was a thing where
like my stepfather would get me and my brother and
we would go and they would make row ty and

(42:30):
it was some of the worst ROTI ever, like just
like like horrible ROTI They might be still selling it
right now, they're trying to make their coins. I've checked.
I think the ice cream shop is out of business,
but but it was. It was terrible. But at the

(42:51):
same time we were so starved for any for any curry,
and so it was just like this is great. Like
it's that weird thing of you know, if you if
if that's the best you got, you're gonna like the
flavors are close enough and so that but still even

(43:13):
that bad road tie still like always felt like, okay,
this this connects me back to New York. It connects
me back to my Caribbean heritage, It's like and so
that for me was always uh yeah, always my favorite.
I'll I now will make like I'll make curry chicken

(43:34):
at least once or twice a month, and I'll go
over to like A and A and pick up some
roady skins and just uh and that's my yeah, whenever,
whenever I need a meal. Yeah, you can't. You can't
really get road ty in the city, so you have
to go to Brooklyn. Yeah, it is so you that
in Manhattan proper, you like can't get it. You gotta

(43:54):
go to Brooklyn. But it's funny because your story about
your grandmother reminds me of my mother in law. Every
holiday in her suitcase. I'm not trying to get her
in trouble, but in her suitcase we claim it. You know,
she always brings from my husband kisscakes, um old teen cookies,
which I have them right here on my calendar, and
then um atos guaba jam because you get my two

(44:16):
chaper I used to sell it, then they stopped selling it,
and then if you order on Amazon, it's like fifteen
dollars a bottle. When you're like hold up, no, no, no, no,
this is like it's like two tee tee, like it's
nothing and so, and then she always brings curry powder.
So It's one of those things where I didn't know
exactly what it is after the holidays. It's like you
have your kitchen is full and sorrow, like you know,

(44:37):
proper sal so Sara leaves like dried sal so, you
like have your proper things from Trinidad right like in
your kitchen. So it just reminded me of that because
she still does it to this day and I get excited.
I mean, mat is lit buaba jam is is slass,
you know. Yeah, no, that's it's wow. When you said
I didn't realize matos was now like fifteen dollars, Well

(44:59):
when you order, like, yeah, you have to try to
find it. It's not it's not in New York anywhere.
I don't know where people are where they live in
where it maybe have access to it, but nobody that
I know has access to it. That's for a reasonable price.
Yeah yeah, oh wow. Yeah, it's funny because yeah, that
was always in the cupboard and it was just one
of those things that I think, yeah, I took for granted,

(45:21):
like just always seeing that and yeah, it finds its
way on the kitchen table with dinner and yeah, wow,
last last thing, last bit before I let you go um.
For those that are listening, what is your I don't
want to say what's your next, because I always believe
in going deep instead of going wide. But if that
is appropriate, take it, um. But what's your now? And

(45:43):
if if not now, what's your next? Mm hmm uh.
That's a good question. And I don't know. I don't
know if I have a good answer. I feel like, um,
you know, I think for me, I uh, I've loved

(46:04):
the ability to get to create my own stuff, and
I feel like I enjoy getting to do that. I
enjoy performing, I enjoy writing. I've gotten to direct a
little bit. I feel like I would like to find
more ways to to do that, to kind of find

(46:24):
more ways to tells stories I want to tell in
in ways that feel more complete to me. I think
you write a story, and that's one part of the
journey that's and it's fun, you know, it's it's it's
hard too, but it's like you get to build this world.
And then sometimes you write something and then you hand

(46:45):
it off to other people and then they you've made
the blueprint, then they get to build it. And I
think I enjoy getting to to build it too. And
then I enjoy getting to to ride on the thing
I built, and so I think as much of that
stuff as I can do where Okay, yeah, I wrote it,
and I can perform on it as the person who

(47:08):
gets to ride in it, but also I can direct it,
and that's sort of helping to be the person who's
building it. And so I would say, for me, that's
what more opportunities to kind of do that, to to
have a more what feels to me, more of a complete,
like hands on process from beginning to end, rooted to

(47:30):
the twitter as some might say, rooted to the tutor.
It has been a pleasure. Thank you so much for sharing,
for taking a seat next to me in this court
side conversation. I really do appreciate your time. I love
the work that you do, so please keep doing this
work because people need it. Thank you, no, thank you,

(47:51):
and thank you for what you do too, because I
think you bring a great joy to so many people,
and I have enjoyed. I used to in a building
that had a Peloton bike, and I enjoyed many times
having you as a riding partner, because I think there's
beyond simply just getting my heart rate up. I feel

(48:13):
like there was a lot that you were doing to
help turn what was just like a sweaty experience into
one that feels like, Okay, this is this is more
than just exercise. This is making choices that have impacts

(48:33):
be the after you step off the bike, and that
the energy you put into this exercise is the same
energy you can put into so many other things in
your life. And we joked a lot about reaching down
and turning that knob in terms of how you sort

(48:54):
of approach your work life, relationships, friendships, whatever. But I
think that something that I truly appreciate the you know,
I don't know if that metaphor would exist if I
would have had that metaphor to go to if you
weren't so so great at creating a space for uh,

(49:15):
for that kind of energy to to exist and thrive.
So thank you. Oh that makes me feel really good.
I always say, you know, how do you do how
do you do one thing or how you do a
few things is how you're gonna do everything. So I
try to thank you with me everywhere. So thank you.
Thank you. Mutual Admiration Society. Oh that's our new club.

(49:35):
I'm in it. Yeah,
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