May 26, 2021 • 27 mins
Making health care decisions for yourself -- or the people in your care -- are some of the most important choices you will ever make. It's understandable to have questions about the efficacy of the COVID-19 vaccines. Community health care navigators are there to help ease vaccine-related concerns, and bridge the gap of trust between their communities and the health care providers that serve them. These navigators can be a local nurse or pharmacist, or even just a faith leader or friendly neighbor. This episode, we hear from Heather Simpson, a mother who was once part of the anti-vax community. Thoughtful discussion helped change her mind, and now she's been vaccinated against COVID-19. She talks about the best way to open up discussions with vaccine-hesitant people. Then, we hear from Dr. Rochelle Walensky, Director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, about the importance of these health care navigators, and what the CDC is doing to support them.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to COVID nineteen Immunity in Our Community. Before we
kick off the show, here's the latest COVID nineteen vaccination
news at the time of this recording on Monday May.
At the start of this week, over two five million
vaccines have been administered in the US, and six out
(00:20):
of ten American adults have received at least one COVID
vaccine dose. The FDA recently authorized the Fiser COVID vaccine
for adolescence between twelve to fifteen years old. The CDC
recently updated mask guidelines. Fully vaccinated individuals can resume activities
without wearing a mask or physically distancing you are fully
(00:43):
vaccinated two weeks after your final dose. That's it for now,
enjoy the show. Hello, Yeah you Hi. I'm Robin Roberts
of ABC's Good Morning America, and welcome the COVID nineteen
Immunity in Our Community, brought to you by the U
S Department of Health and Human Services. COVID nineteen Immunity
(01:19):
in Our Community has been created to provide you with
the groundbreaking science, honest facts, unvarnished truth about the deadly
coronavirus and the revolutionary vaccines that could put this pandemic
behind us. Today, we're talking about vaccine hesitancy and the
people that bridge the gap of trust between hesitant folks
(01:40):
and the healthcare providers who want to help them. These
liaisons are community healthcare navigators. Sometimes the people who take
on this role are professional mediators through government programs, but
other times they're simply our neighbors or our family. Many
(02:04):
of these figures are women responsible for balancing social distancing, homeschooling,
remote work, and the healthcare decisions for their own families.
But what does it take to change minds about the
safety of COVID nineteen vaccines. Well to find out, we
sat down with Heather Simpson, a mother who used to
(02:24):
be part of the anti vaccine community. However, some compassionate
friends and thoughtful experts led her to research the science
behind the COVID nineteen vaccines. Now she's a community healthcare
navigator herself. Heather offers her unique insights on how we
can best convince others to roll up their sleeves and
(02:46):
get vaccinated. Then we talked to Dr Rochelle Wolinski, director
of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. She discussed
the community health Workers Initiative and effort to support healthcare
worker and navigators. She also covered how our health care
system can work to build and repair trust in these
(03:06):
hesitant communities, and what each of us can do to help.
Once upon a time, Heather Simpson was stringently anti vaccine
or anti vax. When COVID nineteen hit and talk of
(03:29):
a vaccine started to circulate, she knew she wouldn't take
her daughter to be vaccinated. Nope. Heather had long been
active and anti vax Facebook groups. One year, you know
what she did. She dresses measles for Halloween because she
says it was the least scary thing she could imagine.
That image of Heather in her costume circulated the Internet
(03:51):
and earned her no shortage of mocking online. The anti
vax hmmunity was the only place Heather felt really understood
and except did. But when the COVID nineteen pandemic hit
the country hard, Heather still felt it was important to
wear masks and protect the community. The anti vax Facebook
groups did not agree, and they turned against her. After
(04:13):
losing her anti vax community, Heather decided to speak to
experts about the efficacy of vaccines. Slowly, she realized that
vaccines are safe, and now Heather has been vaccinated against
COVID nineteen. Here's Heather Simpson now to share her story
of how she came to become anti vaccine, how she
(04:34):
realized that vaccines work, and how empathy played a key
role in that journey. Then she'll talk about her mission
to spread the truth about COVID nineteen vaccines. I am
(04:56):
a mother of a three and a half year old
all and her name is Charlotte. She is a wild child.
She loves dinosaurs and the great outdoors, and she she
quite literally never stops going. So I grew up vaccinated.
Um I got my Heppy series when I was a teen.
(05:17):
I guess it was a different schedule but then and
that's just what we did. We didn't worry about it.
We didn't like them, but we just did it. And
when I was eighteen and going off to college, my
mom gave me the choice to get my meningitis shot.
And I hate needles, so being eighteen, I said no.
(05:39):
And I guess there was a little spark of hesitancy
in me at that point, like, well, why why do
we get vaccinated? And you know what, what would be
the dangers, but I just kind of shut that down.
And a couple of years later, I poked myself with
some old jewelry, so I ran to the local clinic
and I got a tennis shot. A couple of years
(06:00):
after that, I had to get a flu shop for school.
I almost passed out, but I wasn't worried that I
would have a crazy side effect. It wasn't until I
think two thousand fifteen, when me and my husband started
thinking about having a kid and trying to get pregnant,
that we realized, oh, my goodness, we have We're going
(06:25):
to have this life that we're in charge of. We
have to make these kinds of heavy decisions. And that's
when we were at our most vulnerable. And that's when
I saw this ad for a documentary series about vaccines,
and it was completely anti vaccine. It was about nine
hours long, and we decided to watch it all, which
(06:52):
the hard part about it was it was full of doctors,
um anti vaccine doctors. But you know, growing up having
trusted doctors, I'm listening to these doctors like, Wow, they're correct,
this is this is crazy. How have I not known
that vaccines were so dangerous? They blamed everything under the
(07:14):
sun on vaccines, and I just ate it up. I
was terrified after that. At the same time she developed
her distrust of vaccines, Heather and her husband were experiencing
fertility issues that no doctor could seem to solve. She
didn't feel like she was being listened to by the
medical professionals in her life. Then, when natural methods finally
(07:36):
helped Heather get pregnant, she decided to go the natural
route for good. Natural medicine seemed to help her when
no doctor could. When COVID kind of became this big
pandemic and the vaccine was being talked about, I in
no way wanted anything to do with it. I definitely
(08:00):
didn't want my daughter to have it. I didn't want
myself to have it. I didn't want my husband to
have it. I did not trust it. I was a
bit of a conspiracy theorist. I was still an anti
vaxtor when COVID hit um and still somewhat vocal about
my anti vaccine beliefs online. So as ironic as it
(08:21):
is that a doctor kind of made me distrust Western medicine,
another doctor kind of turned the situation around for me.
I have in demetriosis to last February. It was really bad,
and my kind of coologists wanted to do surgery. I
posted online to my friends, my anti VAXX friends, and
(08:41):
they were telling me it's the lazy way out. You
just need to eat healthier, and doing the surgery is
just kind of pathetic. And then I went to my
doctor and I cried, master if this was my fault,
if I just needed to eat better, and she told
me it was not my fault, and I needed the
surgery and I felt better after the surgery. And that
(09:04):
was kind of when I started to trust Western medicine more.
As Heather started to warm up to the medical system,
the anti vax community turned against her. Now they're also
noticed that the anti vax community was stringently anti mask,
but wearing masks in public was something Heather felt passionate
(09:26):
about because of her different opinions. The anti vax community
completely rejected her, so she turned to her friends and
vaccine experts for the truth. So I had a friend
named Jess that forward hours and hours of her time
into talking with me about my fears, and that really,
(09:51):
to have someone care so deeply and actually listened to me,
that was one of the biggest things that kind of
turned the tide for me. I mean, she was just
so empathetic and in all of our previous conversations, she
never judged. She would ask why, you know, well, why
are you scared of that? What is your thought process
(10:12):
behind that? Okay, well this is why I believe that's
not correct. I started reading actual pro vaccine books instead
of anti vaccine propaganda, and then I started talking to
online doctors that became friends on Facebook and online scientists
that became friends on Facebook, and they were so happy
(10:34):
to help answer my questions and they actually explained the
science to me. A lot of anti vaccine people believe
that aluminum from vaccine gets into your brain because they
read these studies that show that there's a luminium in
your brain. What actually happens at the end of these studies,
if you read the details, it's environmental aluminum. It's not
(10:58):
the vaccine aluminum. And that that blew my mind. I
was like, we've been reading all these studies wrong. It's
like we're not doctors. I still feel this fear. I
think every parent feels a little bit of anxiety going
in to get your child's vaccines because you don't know.
I mean, one in a million can have aniflexus, probably
(11:19):
not your kid, but it's just it's just a medical procedure.
You know, everybody has a little bit of anxiety. But
telling myself those scientific facts, it was just such a
relief to know that there's hard science out there that
you can trust. After learning the truth about vaccines from
(11:42):
experts and speaking to hympathetic friends, Heather made it her
mission to use the same science and patients to spread
the facts about all vaccines. She also booked her COVID
nineteen vaccine appointment. I am nervous because needles. You know,
I have been known to faint um, but you know
(12:02):
that happens, and I'm glad to be part of her immunity.
I have heard a lot of rumors, you know that
the COVID vaccine effects fertility, or you know my mom
died the next day, you know, things like that. And
what I'm doing is just posting and trying to explain
to people the science that I've read. And I personally
(12:24):
got to talk to Dr Paul off It about that
because that was kind of my fear. You know, when
you read about fertility and you want another kid, you
don't want to stop that, And he just put my fear,
my fears at ease, And that was just such a
wonderful conversation. And so I'm confident moving forward that it
(12:44):
is a good vaccine with solid science behind it. All
I can do is just share those articles with my
friends and share what I know. If you are going
to talk to a vaccine hesitant person or an anti
vaxer and try to bridge that gap, just keep in
mind that they are terrified and they they truly believe
(13:06):
what they believe. Mocking them is not going to do anything.
Being sarcastic is only going to build that wall. When
I got a ton of hate as an anti factor,
that just strengthened my platform and I believed, Oh I
got hate, that means I'm doing something right. So just
(13:26):
be on their team. And these hard scientific facts that
you can't get around, have those ready, have those written down,
whatever you need to do. But there are hard scientific facts,
even about the COVID vaccine that you can't feel your
way out of, you can't argue with your way out of.
(13:47):
You can empathize with them and say, I understand how
scary it is to read these stories you can explain, uh,
you know, there's actually a lot of funny correlation does
not equal causation things on the internet. That's that's what
helped me and the scientific facts. Man, I couldn't argue
my way out of those scientific facts. Heather Simpson stressed
(14:15):
the importance of listening to vaccine hesitant people without judgment,
patiently sharing the real science with them. That's what changed
her mind about vaccines and turned her into a community
healthcare navigator. To learn more about how the medical system
can build trust in the communities they served, we spoke
to Dr Rochelle Walnsky, Director of the Centers for Disease
(14:37):
Control and Prevention. Dr Walnsky was a professor at Harvard
Medical School for eight years and chief of the Division
of Infectious Diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital for three years.
She also spent a year working on the front lines
of the COVID nineteen pandemic. This gave her an up
close understanding of how this disease has impacted vone A
(15:00):
Bowl communities, as well as what may cause those communities
to be hesitant about vaccines. Dr Willinsky discussed how the
CDC is working to support and fund community healthcare workers
and navigators, as well as what you listeners can do
from home to become small scale healthcare navigators yourselves. I
(15:25):
think it's really important that we understand where people are
when they're thinking about vaccines and whether they are confident
in the vaccines, whether they want the vaccines, and who
they get their information from, because not everybody trusts everyone
UM and they have trusted people in their lives and
their communities and they really want to understand vaccine safety,
(15:46):
vaccine efficacy and learn it from the people who they trust.
And so it is those people UM locally. It may
be in their faith based organizations, it may be in
their communities, that may be in their pharmacy sees that
maybe their loved ones. And it is those people who
really have to extend the confidence and the message that
vaccines are effective, they will prevent disease, and vaccines are safe.
(16:11):
To meet people where they are. We need to convey
the science. We need to communicate it. We need to
bring it to the people UM at the level that
they want to hear it, that they want to understand it.
We need to be able to you know, this is
this is going to happen. One person at a time. UM,
we need to make sure that people get the answers
to their specific questions, and they get the answers to
(16:31):
those questions in the context of where they have trusted messengers.
So some people get that information from their pharmacists, some
people don't have a trusted pharmacist. Some people might go
to their their minister and want to get it from
their faith based organization. And so we're really trying to
spread all over local communities to make sure that they
(16:52):
get those trusted messages from those trusted messengers and in
fact that it's science based and they have all of
the tool hits that they need to convey that information
based on that science. The CDC recognizes the importance of
trusted figures like healthcare navigators to spread the facts about
(17:13):
the COVID nineteen vaccines. That's why they're devoting resources to
encouraging more people to take on the role in developing
the skills of people who already have. We have devoted
three D thirty two million dollars to our community health
worker initiative. We know as part of getting people excited
um and motivated to take the vaccine that we really
(17:35):
need to meet people where they are. It is those
community workers who understand the people in their community, who
understand where or why they might be hesitant, who know
how to find them, who understand what their reluctancy might be.
And I think when we talk about vaccine confidence, we
really need to understand that some people are worried because
it's not convenient. Some people are worried that the side
(17:58):
effects might keep them out of work the next day.
Some people are worried about their safety or whether they
really work, or maybe some people aren't concerned that they
would get COVID at all, and a disease. Trusted community
workers who live in the community, who can come with
informed discussions where people can really ask the questions of
the people in their community and get the answers to
(18:20):
the questions that they perceive as the reason that they
don't want to get the vaccine. And I think it's
really those community workers. The the money and resources that
CDC is putting forward towards this community worker program, is
going to help with community worker education, is going to
help with evaluation, technical assistance so that we can really
inform these community workers and they can bring that message
(18:41):
out to the members of their community. Dr Wilinsky said
that community healthcare navigators should focus on sharing the overwhelming
scientific evidence that vaccines are safe and effective. I think
it's really important to recognize that now hundreds of millions
of Americans have rolled up their sleeve and gotten the vaccine,
(19:04):
and we are starting to see the data that demonstrates
that that vaccine is leading to decreased hospitalizations, decreased disease
in the communities that have been vaccinated. I think it's
really important to understand that the safety of as vaccine
has been demonstrated not only in clinical trials of a
hundred thousand people, but now through the experience of a
(19:26):
hundred million people. And I think it's really important that
people understand that that it is so critical for people
to roll up their sleeves and get vaccinated. It will
help with with curbing disease, and it will um it
is safe to do. Health care systems and clinical providers
have been at the front lines working with patients and
(19:47):
are working now to ensure consistent communication, trusted communication, and
accountability for the work that they're doing. And UM, I'm
really enthusiastic that over this next tenures were building up
vaccine trust that they will be there leading with science
to lead that trusted message. All of you listening at home,
(20:11):
and we're so glad that you are. You can become
healthcare navigators too by talking to the hesitant people in
your lives about why it's important to get a COVID
nineteam vaccine. The very first step is leading by example
people who are listening at home. The first thing you
(20:32):
can do is roll up your own sleeve and get vaccinated.
And the next thing that you can do locally is
just look around you and be the messenger for someone else.
There are a lot of resources on the CDC dot
gov website. There are a lot of resources on that
we can do this website and UM. Those resources can
be used as tool kits to engage in your community
(20:52):
to spread the word out. When the mailman comes, I
might ask have you been vaccinated? UM, and the people
really us want to hear about it in their community.
So so send the message to the people around you,
to your community, to your loved ones, and really understand
what it is that is causing them to not necessarily
roll up their sleeves. If it's the ride, you can
(21:14):
be there to provide it for them. If it's the
appointment you can be that help access it. We are
going to do this one person at a time. When
I say meet people where they're at, I mean it
both figuratively and literally. So if you are if the
mailman comes, if you're in the pharmacy, if you're having
(21:35):
a casual discussion, UM, talk to people about whether they've
gotten the vaccine? Where a sticker or where where a
bracelet that says you've gotten the vaccine? And and and
be the walking advertisement and in fact when then you
have this conversation, So not only are you literally meeting
them and finding them wherever it is that they go
every day, but then you're having a conversation with them
(21:57):
about why if you haven't gotten the vaccine, why not? UM?
What is it about the vaccine that either has you concerned?
Was it not convenient? Could you not find it? Did
you not have the time, did you not have the
time off? UM? Or were you worried about its side effects?
Where you worried about its safety profile? Because if you're
empowered with all the information to answer those questions, then
(22:18):
UM you will be the one to motivate UM their
decision making as they roll up the sleeves and get
the vaccine themselves. You know, I spent a year on
the front lines during this pandemic, so I have so
many stories. What I can tell you is when it
comes to reaching communities, there are people who might be reluctant.
There are people who don't really understand the impact of
(22:42):
this disease. So often early on we said, you need
to stay home, you need to quarantine, you need to isolate. UM. Quarantine,
as I've found in so many of these communities, is
actually a privilege that many people don't have the opportunity
to quarantine and um. It is those community health workers
who live in these communities who find people who can
(23:04):
convey to those people that their healthcare workers out there,
who care, who want them to come in, who want
to see them, who want to see them before they're
super sick, so we can intervene early and to really
want to make sure that they can get vaccinated so
that they are not at risk to themselves or to
their families. So each of us can also help bridge
(23:38):
the gap of trust between our communities and the health
care systems that serve us. In fact, we encourage you
to join the COVID nineteen Community Core to receive information
on how you can help build vaccine confidence in your community.
You know it's understandable for people to ask questions about
the COVID nineteen vaccines. Decisions about our health are some
(24:01):
of the most important decisions we will ever make, and
if we're responsible for making healthcare decisions for a child
or relative, the pressure to do things right can be overwhelming.
But each of us can listen to those concerns with
empathy and patience and then help hesitant folks understand the
solid science behind the COVID nineteen vaccines. Both Heather Simpson
(24:26):
and Dr Rochelle Rolinsky stressed how important it is for
healthcare navigators to use a combination of empathy and science
to change minds, and more importantly, to listen to the
questions and fears people have. Lead by example and book
your vaccine appointment today. To get vaccinated, go to vaccines
(24:56):
dot gov and click find COVID nineteen vaccines. The site
will help you determine where you can get the vaccine
and how to make an appointment. Now you don't have
to worry about paying for your vaccine. Your taxpayer dollars
are funding the rollout, so there's no individual cost to you,
So if someone asked you to provide your insurance information,
(25:19):
that's only so your vaccination provider can build your insurance
for the administrative costs, but you will not be personally
responsible for any expenses. I'd like to thank our guests,
Heather Simpson and Dr Rochelle Willinski for sharing their thoughts
and their expertise with us today. Tune in again for
episode six, where we'll address how the COVID nineteen pandemic
(25:43):
has impacted the Hispanic community. COVID nineteen Immunity in Our
Community was developed and paid for by the U. S
Department of Health and Human Services, part of a public
education campaign to increase public confidence in COVID nineteen vaccines
(26:07):
while reinforcing basic prevention measures. We Can Do This Presented
by I Heart Radio and ABC News, this podcast is
hosted by me Robin Roberts. The episode was executive produced
Ethan Fixal with production by Wonder Media Network. It was written, engineered,
(26:29):
and edited by Edie Aller to Triple Threat, with research
assistance from Alessandra Hata. If you haven't already subscribed, rated,
or reviewed COVID nineteen Immunity in our community. What are
you waiting for? Please do so on the I Heart
radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
(26:51):
Until next week. I am Robin Roberts and this is
COVID nineteen immunity in our community. We could do this.
Thank you for listening. E
Welcome to COVID nineteen Immunity in Our Community. Before we
kick off the show, here's the latest COVID nineteen vaccination
news at the time of this recording on Monday May.
At the start of this week, over two five million
vaccines have been administered in the US, and six out
(00:20):
of ten American adults have received at least one COVID
vaccine dose. The FDA recently authorized the Fiser COVID vaccine
for adolescence between twelve to fifteen years old. The CDC
recently updated mask guidelines. Fully vaccinated individuals can resume activities
without wearing a mask or physically distancing you are fully
(00:43):
vaccinated two weeks after your final dose. That's it for now,
enjoy the show. Hello, Yeah you Hi. I'm Robin Roberts
of ABC's Good Morning America, and welcome the COVID nineteen
Immunity in Our Community, brought to you by the U
S Department of Health and Human Services. COVID nineteen Immunity
(01:19):
in Our Community has been created to provide you with
the groundbreaking science, honest facts, unvarnished truth about the deadly
coronavirus and the revolutionary vaccines that could put this pandemic
behind us. Today, we're talking about vaccine hesitancy and the
people that bridge the gap of trust between hesitant folks
(01:40):
and the healthcare providers who want to help them. These
liaisons are community healthcare navigators. Sometimes the people who take
on this role are professional mediators through government programs, but
other times they're simply our neighbors or our family. Many
(02:04):
of these figures are women responsible for balancing social distancing, homeschooling,
remote work, and the healthcare decisions for their own families.
But what does it take to change minds about the
safety of COVID nineteen vaccines. Well to find out, we
sat down with Heather Simpson, a mother who used to
(02:24):
be part of the anti vaccine community. However, some compassionate
friends and thoughtful experts led her to research the science
behind the COVID nineteen vaccines. Now she's a community healthcare
navigator herself. Heather offers her unique insights on how we
can best convince others to roll up their sleeves and
(02:46):
get vaccinated. Then we talked to Dr Rochelle Wolinski, director
of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. She discussed
the community health Workers Initiative and effort to support healthcare
worker and navigators. She also covered how our health care
system can work to build and repair trust in these
(03:06):
hesitant communities, and what each of us can do to help.
Once upon a time, Heather Simpson was stringently anti vaccine
or anti vax. When COVID nineteen hit and talk of
(03:29):
a vaccine started to circulate, she knew she wouldn't take
her daughter to be vaccinated. Nope. Heather had long been
active and anti vax Facebook groups. One year, you know
what she did. She dresses measles for Halloween because she
says it was the least scary thing she could imagine.
That image of Heather in her costume circulated the Internet
(03:51):
and earned her no shortage of mocking online. The anti
vax hmmunity was the only place Heather felt really understood
and except did. But when the COVID nineteen pandemic hit
the country hard, Heather still felt it was important to
wear masks and protect the community. The anti vax Facebook
groups did not agree, and they turned against her. After
(04:13):
losing her anti vax community, Heather decided to speak to
experts about the efficacy of vaccines. Slowly, she realized that
vaccines are safe, and now Heather has been vaccinated against
COVID nineteen. Here's Heather Simpson now to share her story
of how she came to become anti vaccine, how she
(04:34):
realized that vaccines work, and how empathy played a key
role in that journey. Then she'll talk about her mission
to spread the truth about COVID nineteen vaccines. I am
(04:56):
a mother of a three and a half year old
all and her name is Charlotte. She is a wild child.
She loves dinosaurs and the great outdoors, and she she
quite literally never stops going. So I grew up vaccinated.
Um I got my Heppy series when I was a teen.
(05:17):
I guess it was a different schedule but then and
that's just what we did. We didn't worry about it.
We didn't like them, but we just did it. And
when I was eighteen and going off to college, my
mom gave me the choice to get my meningitis shot.
And I hate needles, so being eighteen, I said no.
(05:39):
And I guess there was a little spark of hesitancy
in me at that point, like, well, why why do
we get vaccinated? And you know what, what would be
the dangers, but I just kind of shut that down.
And a couple of years later, I poked myself with
some old jewelry, so I ran to the local clinic
and I got a tennis shot. A couple of years
(06:00):
after that, I had to get a flu shop for school.
I almost passed out, but I wasn't worried that I
would have a crazy side effect. It wasn't until I
think two thousand fifteen, when me and my husband started
thinking about having a kid and trying to get pregnant,
that we realized, oh, my goodness, we have We're going
(06:25):
to have this life that we're in charge of. We
have to make these kinds of heavy decisions. And that's
when we were at our most vulnerable. And that's when
I saw this ad for a documentary series about vaccines,
and it was completely anti vaccine. It was about nine
hours long, and we decided to watch it all, which
(06:52):
the hard part about it was it was full of doctors,
um anti vaccine doctors. But you know, growing up having
trusted doctors, I'm listening to these doctors like, Wow, they're correct,
this is this is crazy. How have I not known
that vaccines were so dangerous? They blamed everything under the
(07:14):
sun on vaccines, and I just ate it up. I
was terrified after that. At the same time she developed
her distrust of vaccines, Heather and her husband were experiencing
fertility issues that no doctor could seem to solve. She
didn't feel like she was being listened to by the
medical professionals in her life. Then, when natural methods finally
(07:36):
helped Heather get pregnant, she decided to go the natural
route for good. Natural medicine seemed to help her when
no doctor could. When COVID kind of became this big
pandemic and the vaccine was being talked about, I in
no way wanted anything to do with it. I definitely
(08:00):
didn't want my daughter to have it. I didn't want
myself to have it. I didn't want my husband to
have it. I did not trust it. I was a
bit of a conspiracy theorist. I was still an anti
vaxtor when COVID hit um and still somewhat vocal about
my anti vaccine beliefs online. So as ironic as it
(08:21):
is that a doctor kind of made me distrust Western medicine,
another doctor kind of turned the situation around for me.
I have in demetriosis to last February. It was really bad,
and my kind of coologists wanted to do surgery. I
posted online to my friends, my anti VAXX friends, and
(08:41):
they were telling me it's the lazy way out. You
just need to eat healthier, and doing the surgery is
just kind of pathetic. And then I went to my
doctor and I cried, master if this was my fault,
if I just needed to eat better, and she told
me it was not my fault, and I needed the
surgery and I felt better after the surgery. And that
(09:04):
was kind of when I started to trust Western medicine more.
As Heather started to warm up to the medical system,
the anti vax community turned against her. Now they're also
noticed that the anti vax community was stringently anti mask,
but wearing masks in public was something Heather felt passionate
(09:26):
about because of her different opinions. The anti vax community
completely rejected her, so she turned to her friends and
vaccine experts for the truth. So I had a friend
named Jess that forward hours and hours of her time
into talking with me about my fears, and that really,
(09:51):
to have someone care so deeply and actually listened to me,
that was one of the biggest things that kind of
turned the tide for me. I mean, she was just
so empathetic and in all of our previous conversations, she
never judged. She would ask why, you know, well, why
are you scared of that? What is your thought process
(10:12):
behind that? Okay, well this is why I believe that's
not correct. I started reading actual pro vaccine books instead
of anti vaccine propaganda, and then I started talking to
online doctors that became friends on Facebook and online scientists
that became friends on Facebook, and they were so happy
(10:34):
to help answer my questions and they actually explained the
science to me. A lot of anti vaccine people believe
that aluminum from vaccine gets into your brain because they
read these studies that show that there's a luminium in
your brain. What actually happens at the end of these studies,
if you read the details, it's environmental aluminum. It's not
(10:58):
the vaccine aluminum. And that that blew my mind. I
was like, we've been reading all these studies wrong. It's
like we're not doctors. I still feel this fear. I
think every parent feels a little bit of anxiety going
in to get your child's vaccines because you don't know.
I mean, one in a million can have aniflexus, probably
(11:19):
not your kid, but it's just it's just a medical procedure.
You know, everybody has a little bit of anxiety. But
telling myself those scientific facts, it was just such a
relief to know that there's hard science out there that
you can trust. After learning the truth about vaccines from
(11:42):
experts and speaking to hympathetic friends, Heather made it her
mission to use the same science and patients to spread
the facts about all vaccines. She also booked her COVID
nineteen vaccine appointment. I am nervous because needles. You know,
I have been known to faint um, but you know
(12:02):
that happens, and I'm glad to be part of her immunity.
I have heard a lot of rumors, you know that
the COVID vaccine effects fertility, or you know my mom
died the next day, you know, things like that. And
what I'm doing is just posting and trying to explain
to people the science that I've read. And I personally
(12:24):
got to talk to Dr Paul off It about that
because that was kind of my fear. You know, when
you read about fertility and you want another kid, you
don't want to stop that, And he just put my fear,
my fears at ease, And that was just such a
wonderful conversation. And so I'm confident moving forward that it
(12:44):
is a good vaccine with solid science behind it. All
I can do is just share those articles with my
friends and share what I know. If you are going
to talk to a vaccine hesitant person or an anti
vaxer and try to bridge that gap, just keep in
mind that they are terrified and they they truly believe
(13:06):
what they believe. Mocking them is not going to do anything.
Being sarcastic is only going to build that wall. When
I got a ton of hate as an anti factor,
that just strengthened my platform and I believed, Oh I
got hate, that means I'm doing something right. So just
(13:26):
be on their team. And these hard scientific facts that
you can't get around, have those ready, have those written down,
whatever you need to do. But there are hard scientific facts,
even about the COVID vaccine that you can't feel your
way out of, you can't argue with your way out of.
(13:47):
You can empathize with them and say, I understand how
scary it is to read these stories you can explain, uh,
you know, there's actually a lot of funny correlation does
not equal causation things on the internet. That's that's what
helped me and the scientific facts. Man, I couldn't argue
my way out of those scientific facts. Heather Simpson stressed
(14:15):
the importance of listening to vaccine hesitant people without judgment,
patiently sharing the real science with them. That's what changed
her mind about vaccines and turned her into a community
healthcare navigator. To learn more about how the medical system
can build trust in the communities they served, we spoke
to Dr Rochelle Walnsky, Director of the Centers for Disease
(14:37):
Control and Prevention. Dr Walnsky was a professor at Harvard
Medical School for eight years and chief of the Division
of Infectious Diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital for three years.
She also spent a year working on the front lines
of the COVID nineteen pandemic. This gave her an up
close understanding of how this disease has impacted vone A
(15:00):
Bowl communities, as well as what may cause those communities
to be hesitant about vaccines. Dr Willinsky discussed how the
CDC is working to support and fund community healthcare workers
and navigators, as well as what you listeners can do
from home to become small scale healthcare navigators yourselves. I
(15:25):
think it's really important that we understand where people are
when they're thinking about vaccines and whether they are confident
in the vaccines, whether they want the vaccines, and who
they get their information from, because not everybody trusts everyone
UM and they have trusted people in their lives and
their communities and they really want to understand vaccine safety,
(15:46):
vaccine efficacy and learn it from the people who they trust.
And so it is those people UM locally. It may
be in their faith based organizations, it may be in
their communities, that may be in their pharmacy sees that
maybe their loved ones. And it is those people who
really have to extend the confidence and the message that
vaccines are effective, they will prevent disease, and vaccines are safe.
(16:11):
To meet people where they are. We need to convey
the science. We need to communicate it. We need to
bring it to the people UM at the level that
they want to hear it, that they want to understand it.
We need to be able to you know, this is
this is going to happen. One person at a time. UM,
we need to make sure that people get the answers
to their specific questions, and they get the answers to
(16:31):
those questions in the context of where they have trusted messengers.
So some people get that information from their pharmacists, some
people don't have a trusted pharmacist. Some people might go
to their their minister and want to get it from
their faith based organization. And so we're really trying to
spread all over local communities to make sure that they
(16:52):
get those trusted messages from those trusted messengers and in
fact that it's science based and they have all of
the tool hits that they need to convey that information
based on that science. The CDC recognizes the importance of
trusted figures like healthcare navigators to spread the facts about
(17:13):
the COVID nineteen vaccines. That's why they're devoting resources to
encouraging more people to take on the role in developing
the skills of people who already have. We have devoted
three D thirty two million dollars to our community health
worker initiative. We know as part of getting people excited
um and motivated to take the vaccine that we really
(17:35):
need to meet people where they are. It is those
community workers who understand the people in their community, who
understand where or why they might be hesitant, who know
how to find them, who understand what their reluctancy might be.
And I think when we talk about vaccine confidence, we
really need to understand that some people are worried because
it's not convenient. Some people are worried that the side
(17:58):
effects might keep them out of work the next day.
Some people are worried about their safety or whether they
really work, or maybe some people aren't concerned that they
would get COVID at all, and a disease. Trusted community
workers who live in the community, who can come with
informed discussions where people can really ask the questions of
the people in their community and get the answers to
(18:20):
the questions that they perceive as the reason that they
don't want to get the vaccine. And I think it's
really those community workers. The the money and resources that
CDC is putting forward towards this community worker program, is
going to help with community worker education, is going to
help with evaluation, technical assistance so that we can really
inform these community workers and they can bring that message
(18:41):
out to the members of their community. Dr Wilinsky said
that community healthcare navigators should focus on sharing the overwhelming
scientific evidence that vaccines are safe and effective. I think
it's really important to recognize that now hundreds of millions
of Americans have rolled up their sleeve and gotten the vaccine,
(19:04):
and we are starting to see the data that demonstrates
that that vaccine is leading to decreased hospitalizations, decreased disease
in the communities that have been vaccinated. I think it's
really important to understand that the safety of as vaccine
has been demonstrated not only in clinical trials of a
hundred thousand people, but now through the experience of a
(19:26):
hundred million people. And I think it's really important that
people understand that that it is so critical for people
to roll up their sleeves and get vaccinated. It will
help with with curbing disease, and it will um it
is safe to do. Health care systems and clinical providers
have been at the front lines working with patients and
(19:47):
are working now to ensure consistent communication, trusted communication, and
accountability for the work that they're doing. And UM, I'm
really enthusiastic that over this next tenures were building up
vaccine trust that they will be there leading with science
to lead that trusted message. All of you listening at home,
(20:11):
and we're so glad that you are. You can become
healthcare navigators too by talking to the hesitant people in
your lives about why it's important to get a COVID
nineteam vaccine. The very first step is leading by example
people who are listening at home. The first thing you
(20:32):
can do is roll up your own sleeve and get vaccinated.
And the next thing that you can do locally is
just look around you and be the messenger for someone else.
There are a lot of resources on the CDC dot
gov website. There are a lot of resources on that
we can do this website and UM. Those resources can
be used as tool kits to engage in your community
(20:52):
to spread the word out. When the mailman comes, I
might ask have you been vaccinated? UM, and the people
really us want to hear about it in their community.
So so send the message to the people around you,
to your community, to your loved ones, and really understand
what it is that is causing them to not necessarily
roll up their sleeves. If it's the ride, you can
(21:14):
be there to provide it for them. If it's the
appointment you can be that help access it. We are
going to do this one person at a time. When
I say meet people where they're at, I mean it
both figuratively and literally. So if you are if the
mailman comes, if you're in the pharmacy, if you're having
(21:35):
a casual discussion, UM, talk to people about whether they've
gotten the vaccine? Where a sticker or where where a
bracelet that says you've gotten the vaccine? And and and
be the walking advertisement and in fact when then you
have this conversation, So not only are you literally meeting
them and finding them wherever it is that they go
every day, but then you're having a conversation with them
(21:57):
about why if you haven't gotten the vaccine, why not? UM?
What is it about the vaccine that either has you concerned?
Was it not convenient? Could you not find it? Did
you not have the time, did you not have the
time off? UM? Or were you worried about its side effects?
Where you worried about its safety profile? Because if you're
empowered with all the information to answer those questions, then
(22:18):
UM you will be the one to motivate UM their
decision making as they roll up the sleeves and get
the vaccine themselves. You know, I spent a year on
the front lines during this pandemic, so I have so
many stories. What I can tell you is when it
comes to reaching communities, there are people who might be reluctant.
There are people who don't really understand the impact of
(22:42):
this disease. So often early on we said, you need
to stay home, you need to quarantine, you need to isolate. UM. Quarantine,
as I've found in so many of these communities, is
actually a privilege that many people don't have the opportunity
to quarantine and um. It is those community health workers
who live in these communities who find people who can
(23:04):
convey to those people that their healthcare workers out there,
who care, who want them to come in, who want
to see them, who want to see them before they're
super sick, so we can intervene early and to really
want to make sure that they can get vaccinated so
that they are not at risk to themselves or to
their families. So each of us can also help bridge
(23:38):
the gap of trust between our communities and the health
care systems that serve us. In fact, we encourage you
to join the COVID nineteen Community Core to receive information
on how you can help build vaccine confidence in your community.
You know it's understandable for people to ask questions about
the COVID nineteen vaccines. Decisions about our health are some
(24:01):
of the most important decisions we will ever make, and
if we're responsible for making healthcare decisions for a child
or relative, the pressure to do things right can be overwhelming.
But each of us can listen to those concerns with
empathy and patience and then help hesitant folks understand the
solid science behind the COVID nineteen vaccines. Both Heather Simpson
(24:26):
and Dr Rochelle Rolinsky stressed how important it is for
healthcare navigators to use a combination of empathy and science
to change minds, and more importantly, to listen to the
questions and fears people have. Lead by example and book
your vaccine appointment today. To get vaccinated, go to vaccines
(24:56):
dot gov and click find COVID nineteen vaccines. The site
will help you determine where you can get the vaccine
and how to make an appointment. Now you don't have
to worry about paying for your vaccine. Your taxpayer dollars
are funding the rollout, so there's no individual cost to you,
So if someone asked you to provide your insurance information,
(25:19):
that's only so your vaccination provider can build your insurance
for the administrative costs, but you will not be personally
responsible for any expenses. I'd like to thank our guests,
Heather Simpson and Dr Rochelle Willinski for sharing their thoughts
and their expertise with us today. Tune in again for
episode six, where we'll address how the COVID nineteen pandemic
(25:43):
has impacted the Hispanic community. COVID nineteen Immunity in Our
Community was developed and paid for by the U. S
Department of Health and Human Services, part of a public
education campaign to increase public confidence in COVID nineteen vaccines
(26:07):
while reinforcing basic prevention measures. We Can Do This Presented
by I Heart Radio and ABC News, this podcast is
hosted by me Robin Roberts. The episode was executive produced
Ethan Fixal with production by Wonder Media Network. It was written, engineered,
(26:29):
and edited by Edie Aller to Triple Threat, with research
assistance from Alessandra Hata. If you haven't already subscribed, rated,
or reviewed COVID nineteen Immunity in our community. What are
you waiting for? Please do so on the I Heart
radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
(26:51):
Until next week. I am Robin Roberts and this is
COVID nineteen immunity in our community. We could do this.
Thank you for listening. E
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