November 17, 2025 • 53 mins
The House Oversight Committee releases more than 20,000 documents subpoenaed from
Epstein’s estate, on the heels of a smaller release of emails implying President Trump knew
about Epstein’s abuse.
The documents include thousands of emails with high-profile contacts, financial and property records, excerpts from James Patterson’s Filthy Rich, and records of Epstein’s ‘fixers’ desperate attempts to improve his public image.
Republican congressman Thomas Massie implies Donald Trump's ordering of a fresh investigation is making a “last-ditch effort” to keep the files on the late sex offender from becoming public.
President Trump’s ‘Ghislaine Maxwell problem’ is just as serious as his ‘Epstein problem.’
Maxwell’s transfer to ‘Club Fed’ just days after assuring Deputy Attorney General Blanche
Trump did not participate in the abuse; it appears to be quite the ‘quid pro quo.’
In addition to the low-security facility’s general privileges, Maxwell is reportedly demanding VIP treatment that has the warden complaining she’s “tired of being Maxwell’s bitch.”
Maxwell reportedly receives custom meals in her cell and enjoys private exercise time and access
to service puppies. Warden Tanisha Hall has been ordered to make all requested
accommodations for Maxwell, including carrying out secretarial duties on her behalf, providing
snacks for her private meetings with guests, letting her visitors bring in computers, and
punishing staff members who refuse to cooperate.
And Attorney Alan Dershowitz joins Nancy to discuss the latest developments in the Epstein Files and share his unique insight into the case. The emeritus Harvard Law professor was accused of having sex with “Jane Doe #3”—identified in court documents as Epstein victim Virginia Roberts Giuffre. Dershowitz long maintained his innocence, and in 2022 Giuffre withdrew those accusations and admitted she may have misidentified Dershowitz. He tells Nancy why he wants "everything out there" in the Epstein case.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Alan Dershowitz: Jeffery Epstein's Former Defense Attorney and Former Harvard Law Professor
- Eric Faddis - Partner at Varner Faddis Elite Legal, Former Felony Prosecutor and Current Criminal Defense and Civil Litigation Attorney; Instagram: @e_fad @varnerfaddis; TikTok: @varnerfaddis
- Dr. Bethany Marshall - Psychoanalyst, Author: "Deal Breaker," and featured in hit show "Paris in Love" on Peacock; Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall, X: @DrBethanyLive
- Lynn Shaw - Founder and Executive Director of Lynn's Warriors - an organization committed to ending human trafficking and sexual exploitation, and Host of Lynn's Warriors on YouTube; X: @lynns_warriors, YouTube: @LynnsWarriors
- Barry Levine - Author of “The Spider: Inside the Tangled Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell,” and Veteran Investigative and Editor in Print and Television.
- Rob Shuter - Host: Naughty But Nice Podcast, Author of Upcoming Novel, “It Started With A Whisper," and Former publicist of Sean Combs; IG: @naughtygossip
- Victoria Churchill - U.S. Political Reporter for DailyMail.com; Instagram & Facebook: VictoriaSnitsarChurchill
- Sydney Sumner - Investigative Reporter, ‘Crime Stories’
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Ricky News Tonight bombshell the Epstein files to be released finally.
Is it justice or just another smoke screen? I'm Nancy Grace,
this is Crime Stories.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I never thought i'd see the day when we had
to go to Washington and demand a child sex molester's
files become public.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
What is this? Russia? China? H E double l n oh.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I ain't shutting up about this. Will there finally be
justice for Epstein victims? Not just Epstein? But when I
say Epstein, I'm talking about many, many powerful and or
wealthy men that absolutely engaged.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
In sex with minors. We know, do we not?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Straight out to Barry Levine joining us, author of The
Spider inside the Tangle Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Gallain Maxwell,
we know beyond a doubt that.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Girls as young as twelve years old were flown to
Lolita Island. Isn't that true?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (01:14):
It is true, Nancy, And the only way we're going
to get justice for these victims. And the Department of
Justice told us there's more than a thousand victims of
Jeffrey Epstein and Gahlain Maxwell is to see these files,
is to see the one hundred thousand pages of documents
that include police reports, depositions, interviews, and focus in on
(01:35):
the twenty men that Representative Tom Massey said have been
sex trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Absolutely, and my point is in the last hours a
stark reversal where President Trump is now calling for the
release of the files. But something very very critical to
Victoria Churchill joining us US political investigative.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Reporter for deallymail dot com.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
We need the release of the DOJ, Department of Justice,
and Judicial files, not just the congressional files.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I'm not parsing words.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
The congressional files consist largely of email and phone conversations.
The DOJ and judicial files consist of depositions, terrabytes and
terrabytes of evidence that has been amassed by the DOJ.
I'm talking about videos, terribites of videos taken in the
(02:45):
Epstein homes, taken at Lolita Island and beyond. The judicial
and DOJ files are much more extensive than the congressional files.
Giving me the congressional files is going to advance that much.
We need it all, explain Victoria Churchill. The most recent
(03:08):
order from the White House regarding the Epstein files for Victoria.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Sure so, President Donald Trump, on his way back from
mar A Lago in Florida last night, said that he
is totally okay with Republicans in the US House of
Representatives voting for the DOJ files to be released. That,
of course, is after this discharge petition led by Thomas Massey,
is mentioned by your other guest, as well as Marjory
Taylor Green, who Trump has had a field day with
(03:36):
over the past weekend, you know, insulting her mainly because
she has been one of the main people who is
pushing to go ahead and live, you know, to release
these files, as well as other representatives, you know, other
Republican female representatives. But now it looks like that even
though those signatures on that discharge petition hit that to
(03:57):
eighteen number that they needed last week, excuse me with
the swernon of Adelita Grihalva, who of course they took
fifty days to swear her in Congress, but she was
out last signature on that petition. Now Speaker Mike Johnson
said last week that it will be up for a
vote this week, and now Trump is saying okay, Republicans
can vote for it, so that is a change in
the position that he has had throughout his time in office.
(04:21):
But I also do want to note that in September
of twenty twenty four, when he was on the campaign trail,
he actually promised to release the files related to Epstein,
as well as JFK and even MLK. So it's kind
of interesting how the President has flip flopped on this.
But I also think that goes to show that he
doesn't think that he will be implicated in anything nefarious
(04:43):
in these files, and so I think that really two things.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Can be true.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
I think his name can be mentioned as a former
business associate of Epstein. You know, in the Daily Mail,
we constantly run pictures of Trump and Milania at mar
A Lago with Epstein, with Maxwell, they were known associates.
That's undeniable. However, his name can be all over the
files and he cannot be implicated in anything nefarious, which
I think is what will what we will.
Speaker 6 (05:06):
Discover to be the truth.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
In the last hours of start reversal from the White House,
Trump now claiming he wants the Epstein files release after
much furor over the past months. Why why the turnaround.
Do we care or is this just another smoke screen Listen.
Speaker 7 (05:26):
To glame, Maxwell Epstein writes, Trump spent hours at my
house with a victim. Corresponding with Trump biographer Michael Wolfe,
Epstein says, of course Trump knew about the girls. He
asked Elaine to stop wolf Warren's Epstein. Trump will be
asked about their relationship at an upcoming debate, and the
two discuss hop answers may benefit Epstein.
Speaker 8 (05:46):
These emails prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that
President Trump did nothing wrong. And what President Trump has
always said is that he was from Palm Beach and
so was Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein was a member at
Marla until President Trump kicked him out because Jeffrey Epstein
was a pedophile and he was a creep.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
What we are hearing is just more political mumbo jump by.
For instance, is time to move on from the Democrat
hoax perpetrated.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
By the radical left lunatics.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
But nobody cares about politics on this. This is about
crime victims that were raped as children.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Listen.
Speaker 9 (06:29):
For so many years, it felt like Epstein's criminal behavior
was an open secret. Not only did many others participate
in the abuse. It is clear that many were aware
of his interest in girls and very young women and
chose to look the other way because it benefited them
to do so. They wanted access to his circle and
(06:50):
his money. Their choice to align with his power left
those of us who had been harmed by this man
and his associates feeling very isolated.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
That's from Representative Thomas Massey on X Is this real
we are now learning in the last hours of White
House has done an abrupt u turn demanding the release
of the Epstein files. But so far we have been stonewalled,
one smokescreen after the next, being led to believe we're
finding the truth, only to find out it's all bs.
(07:22):
For instance, in the last days, the House Oversight Committee
releases twenty thousand documents They were nothing.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Listen.
Speaker 10 (07:33):
The House Oversight Committee releases twenty thousand documents subpoenat from
Epstein's estate on the heels of a smaller release, implying
President Trump knew about Epstein's abuse. The documents include thousands
of emails with high profile contacts, financial and property records,
excerpts from James Patterson's Filthy Rich in records of Epstein's
(07:54):
fixer's desperate attempts to improve his public image.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Joining me now and Shaw.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
She is a founderer and director of Lynn's Warriors, dedicated
to ending sex exploitation and human trafficking. If this is
just another Roos, I think there's going to be an insurrection.
Speaker 11 (08:18):
All absolutely coming straight from the Warriors leading the charge.
Because let's call this what this is, Nancy, I see
this as kicking the can.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Down the road.
Speaker 11 (08:28):
That's what's happening.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Take that as you may.
Speaker 11 (08:31):
We do have something we are urging starting today six
am this morning, every member of Congress.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
It's called the.
Speaker 11 (08:37):
Epstein Files Transparency Act. And I'll tell you why we're
doing this. Even though we want, you know, more from
the Justice Department. That's where it is right now. We
will not be silenced about any of this. We're going
to keep up the pressure. We're going to keep showing
up in front of Congress. We're going to keep talking
about it because these women are numbered in one thousand plus.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
That's what we know about.
Speaker 11 (08:58):
And all of the women in Vidio I keep seeing.
We know all of those women, and they bravely are
coming forward to speak on behalf of those who cannot speak,
and all of them have trauma in their own lives.
And there's a wonderful video we put out today from
our colleagues at World Without Exploitation, and everybody should see
it because these are women who have come forward, who say,
hold up a picture. I am twelve, this is me
(09:21):
when I met Jeffrey Epstein, I am fourteen, this is
me when I met Jeffrey Epstein. And it's a whole
slew of women. So let me tell you more of
this kicking the can down the road.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
We are not having it.
Speaker 11 (09:31):
We're going to keep the pressure up.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
As a matter of fact, let's take a look at
Lynnshaw's video.
Speaker 10 (09:36):
I was fourteen years old.
Speaker 9 (09:38):
I was sixteen years old.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I was sixteen, seventeen, fourteen years old.
Speaker 12 (09:42):
This is me, this was me, this is me when
I met Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 13 (09:46):
This is me when I met Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 14 (09:51):
It's time to bring the secrets out of the shadows.
It's time to shine a light into the darkness.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us psychoas from the California Jurisdiction, Author.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
And star on Peacock.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com,
Doctor Bethany.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
The victims have been through so much.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
You and I have dealt with child molestation, child rape victims,
our whole lives essentially since we got into me the
legal business, you the psycho analysts business, doctor Bethany, after
living through what they've lived through as children, after waiting
all these years, now they hear from the White House
(10:34):
release the files for what the second or third time?
If this is another smoke screen and it's all bs,
I'm just a trial lawyer, Bethany, but I would conjecture
that will cause irreparable damage for the President to say
release the files and then it not happen again, and.
Speaker 12 (10:59):
Nancy causes a ruppable damage because it's part of the
same offending pattern. The victims in all of their interviews
are saying that once they were on the island as minors,
as once after they were sex trafficked, that Epstein would
stalk them and would offer them jobs at like say
modeling agency or with a with a media mogul, or
(11:22):
to give them a singing contract or something like that,
the same offending pattern as P Diddy. He would just
get ahead of the story by offering them goodies offering
to promote their career. Now, isn't that the same thing
that politicians are doing with the public. They're just getting
ahead of the story. They're offering us something. They're saying, Look, children,
(11:45):
we are going to release all these files and you're
going to learn so much.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Joining me now A P. R.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Gury Robsheeter, you know him well, author of a brand
new hit book on Amazon. It started with a whisper, rob.
Very often a cover up ends up being worse than
the actual crime, right, the cover up intensifies the crime.
(12:11):
In this case, I don't know, other than murder, what
could be worse than molesting children?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
But trying to suppress that evidence is.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Even more wrongdoing heaped on top. Now, I want you
to hear something, Rob Sheeter, and you're gonna have to
take it with a box, not a pinch, a box
of salt.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
But listen to this.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
Epstein's mcc cellmate X cop Nicholas Tartaglioni claims Epstein told
him prosecutors were really after Trump, and Maureen Comy promised
Epstein a deal as long as he implicated the President
in his crimes. Joey told Epstein he did not have
to prove anything as long as Trump could not disprove it.
Tartaglioni claims Epstein told him Trump was not involved.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Rob, you and I are so far on the outside
looking in. We hear that Trump told Glaine Maxwell to
quote stop what she and Epstein were doing, which of
course does suggest guilty conscience, but also an effort to
stop what was happening.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Here.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
We hear from a cellmate. Yes he's a seal mate,
that means he's convicted, but also an ex cop, and
he says Epstein was being pushed to a deal where
he would implicate Trump before he was killed behind bars.
Before Epstein was killed behind bars, and was told you
(13:37):
don't have to prove it because Trump can't disprove it.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
My question that was.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
The lead up, Rob, Do you believe Trump has been
afraid to release these files because of the damage to
his reputation, Not that he necessarily did anything wrong, but
that it would be so damning his friendship with Epstein.
Speaker 13 (14:03):
Very good question, Nancy. I believe the answer to that
is most likely yes. However, I can't be totally confident
in my answer because we haven't seen the documents. We
haven't seen the information. This is why stories, conspiracy theories,
maybe even the truth is all just swishing around because
(14:26):
we don't have all the information. This information has to
be released, Nancy. It's got to the point now where
I agree with you. It has to be released. And
I think at this point we are gonna be absolutely
shocked with what we find out. However, I think that
is going to be better than saying nothing. The current
(14:49):
situation cannot sustain itself.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
And again I do not like to veer into politics, but.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
We practically had to hold a hot poker to his
rear end to get Trump to go this far. Was
he so afraid of what would be in those files,
whether he did anything wrong or not, that he had
knowledge of what was happening that he was implicated in
that he was on the plane that he was with Epstein.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Has that been the hold up?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Or are their more powerful people even more powerful that
will be implicated. The concern has been so far, and
we know Rob Shooter that a lot of the files
have been redacted. In other words, you get a piece
of paper and half of it has been marked out
with a black magic marker. Names to protect the innocent
have been redacted but when these files are released, they
(15:45):
very likely may not be redacted. So a lot of
innocent people are going to be thrown in the same
pot to stew with the guilty.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 13 (15:54):
Yeah, all the names are going to come out. Anybody
that has had any interaction, emails, exchange with Jeffrey, It's
all going to come out.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
When you said, is there somebody.
Speaker 13 (16:02):
Even more powerful than the President of the United States here,
I just can't think of that person. I've worked this
business a long time. No celebrity, no billionaire, is more
powerful at the moment than the President of the United States,
So I don't think I buy that. I also have
worked around the Trump family for over thirty years. When
(16:23):
he was in the entertainment business. He would often invite
me to Trump Tower, to the celebrity Apprentice set. He
is a master, a master at reading the public, and
so the fact that he has decided it is better
off to take all this anger, to take all this
all this really valid emotion, and not release all the
(16:45):
information tells me he really really wants to hide.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Him In this case, Rob Sheeter, the innocent are going
to be thrown in the same part with the guilty
diste but that is the price for full transparency. Joining
us tonight is a very special guest who has once
again landed at the forefront of the national news because
(17:10):
of Jeffrey Epstein. May Epstein rot in Hell. I'd like
to start, of course, the news of the night is
President Trump's stark reversal on releasing the Epstein files, and
they are volume us. The twenty thousand documents we've gotten
so far as only a very small percentage of what
(17:32):
there is. Just imagine it goes by years and years
and years. And Allen, you've seen cases with thousands and
thousands and thousands of documents. But before we get into that,
I want to make it very clear. At one time
Professor Dershowitz was accused of molesting Virginia Giffrey.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
It has been agreed upon by Geffrey and her lawyers
that Dershowitz was not involved.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
That said, Alan, you have landed in the middle of
a stink bomb on this case.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
And part of it is because just recently.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
You parsed words on Epstein's conviction. Remember that conviction in
the early two thousands where he plagued guilty to solicitation
of a minor. Remember that many people call that pedophilia,
but you are saying, no, it was not pedophilia.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Well, I just think we have to get our words right.
Pedophilia means very young girls thirteen, fourteen twelve. The woman
that he the girl that he admitted to having sought
sex on, was seventeen years and ten months. That's terrible,
and it's a crime, and it's underage, but it's not pedophilia.
And so you can't say he's been convicted of pedophilia.
(18:56):
Not that it makes such a difference, because he was
accused of terrible, terrible things, including relatively young people. But
let's get it's bad enough without distorting the reality. And
so what he did was horrible. What he did was inexcusable,
and the moment I found out that he did it,
I terminated my friendship with him. And by the way,
the newly released documents proved that I was telling you
(19:19):
the truth when I said that Jeffrey hated my guts.
It his emails, he talks about me being mentally ill.
He talked about me being a terrible, terrible lawyer. If
I had ever done anything wrong, the first thing you
would have done was reveal it to people. But he didn't.
So I'm glad these new emails are coming out, and
I'm glad that President Trump has finally agreed to urge
(19:41):
people to vote to have everything come out. The day
I was falsely accused, I announced I want everything out.
I want the FBI to investigate me. I waive all
privileges because I knew I hadn't done anything wrong and
therefore everything would exculpate me. Is of course, as of
course it has. So if you're innocent, you should want
everything out, and if you're guilty.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Should crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, I'm very
curious as to why this has been such an obstacle
in DC, why these files have been It's like hide
(20:25):
the ball. From the very beginning, we've gotten conflicting statements.
We've been told by BONDI they're sitting right here on
my desk, I've got the client list.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
But then claiming, oh, there is no such thing. Do
they think we're idiots?
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Alan, Well, there is a list, a list of FBI
names that the FBI got in interviewing the victims. And
there is such a list. I've seen it, and the
names have been redacted. Some of them has been made public.
Being on the list doesn't necessarily mean you're guilty. It
means somebody has accused you. But there is such a
(20:59):
li There's no Jeffrey Epstein client list. He didn't have
a little book in which he said, this woman is
going to go to this guy, this woman is going
to go here or there. There's no such lists like that.
But the FBI does have names that they're suppressing. And
the judges, judges, this is the important point. Judges have
been suppressing information. They have sealed depositions, including in my case,
(21:21):
and I'd love to see all those depositions. I made
motions in court to get them revealed, but the courts
have said no. The courts have said we're not going
to release this. So the courts have been suppressing information.
The government has been suppressing information. Now I think we're
going to see the government information out there, but the
court information is still going to be suppressed. And I
think that your program, other programs have the right to
(21:44):
go to court and say, look, please, the public has
the right to see this. Let's unseal these depositions.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Now. Alan having built many, many, so many cases, I
can't remember them anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I can't keep count of them.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
But I'm confounded in the face of so many allegations
and so many victims that I believe victims of Epstein,
your former client, victims of his friends, child trafficking girls
as young as twelve years old, and we've been able
to document that from all around the world, from Turkey,
(22:23):
from the stands, all going, many of them anyway to
Lolita Island. There have to be witnesses, Alan, there has
to be documentation of their flights, their fairy rides. What
I don't understand, Alan, is why, at this juncture, in
the face of overwhelming evidence, there is not a full
(22:44):
on investigation of who these men are.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Epstein's dead.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Can we now focus on other offenders? Why are they
being protected? And why is there not an ongoing federal investigation?
Part of hearing about politics, Alan, I'm tired of hearing
about what Trump wants and Bonding wants, and the Democrats want,
the Republicans want.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Why isn't there a.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Federal investigation finding the names of these alleged perpetrators and
prosecuting them.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I agree with that if they're guilty, they should be prosecuted,
but at the same time, all information should be released
about whether or not these accusations are true, false, or
somewhere in between. We have to hear all sides of
the issue. I wrote a book called Guilt by Accusation.
You can't find somebody guilty just because they're accused. They
have to have a due process right to defend themselves.
(23:38):
But I think every name should be revealed, everybody who's
been on the island, everybody who's been on the airplanes, everybody.
Then they have to explain what they were doing on
the island, what they were doing on the airplane, what
they were doing in the house. I've done that. I've
explained that completely, and everything I've ever said has been
completely corroborated by the release of the recent email. So
(23:59):
I think is a case in point. If you're innocent,
please please push to have everything revealed. If you're guilty,
I understand you're a little bit reluctant to have the
truth come out. But if you're innocent, you want the
truth to come out.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Well, Allan, I appreciate that I do, and I agree
with you, but I am not suggesting guilt by accusation
or trial in the media. What I'm saying is I
keep hearing about there is no client list.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Well, it's just like a witness list.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
A police report or an allegation by a victim is
not a client list. You, the prosecutor, have to go
and create the witness list. You have to investigate. I'm
not asking for trial by media. I'm saying, why Allan,
is there not an investigation into these claims? Why are
we talking about there's no client list, Well, go make
(24:57):
one investigate. Find out who they are are when they
were there, who are their victims? These victims are now
adult women. They can can say what happened to them.
I don't understand what's the hold up?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I agree completely. Look there is I've seen it. I've
held it in my hand. There is an FBI report
in which the names are redacted, in which victims say
these are the men ABCD, they identified them by name,
and the court has required that all those names be redacted,
and cross that they shouldn't be. I want every single
(25:34):
name released, and I went to court to try to
get every name released, but the people whose names are
there obviously don't want them released. But at this point
in time, every name should be made public, every accusation
should be made public, and then the people whose names
are on the list should have an opportunity to explain,
to deny, to disprove. But right now, nobody benefits from suppression.
(25:58):
And that's why I'm so upset at courts, courts, federal
judges keeping names out. They shouldn't be doing that. I
want to see that FBI unredacted list of the names,
and then we can judge whether the allegations are true
or false.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Which leads me allan to the question why.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Normally, as you know, in a criminal proceeding, the state
doesn't have to prove motive.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
But I'm curious because I think it will lead me
to more wrongdoing.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Why do you believe that these names have been suppressed
as you say redacted, But I think they're being suppressed.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
They are, They are being suppressed, and they're being suppressed
by federal judges. So let's get the federal judges to
release every name of everybody and release the name of
information that might undercut the claims. Let me give you
an example. There's a woman named Sarah videotapes of Donald Trump,
(26:59):
Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Richard Branson and others having sex
with the young children. So okay, So she sent hundreds
of emails to the New York Post making those allegations.
Then she admitted she made the whole thing up. So
if you're going to release the accusations, you also have
to release the admission that she made it up. So
(27:19):
as long as we get the whole picture, innocent people
shouldn't be concerned. Guilty people should be concerned. But that's
the process of criminal justice to distinguish between the innocent
and the guilty. So please let's release everything. I have
an interest, obviously, because I'm innocent and I want everything
out there. Other people have an interest in suppressing it.
But the interest in suppressing it shouldn't prevail. The public
(27:42):
has the right to know Allan.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I'm sure that you can understand why all of us, the.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Regular people who were not on the inside of this
investigation what you have been, are stymied.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
We don't understand.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
And you know how I feel about politics, Alan, We've
discussed it before. I don't care if you're a Republican
agreeing a Democrat. Don't care. But we were told these
would be released. Then there's an sudden about face. As
soon as Trump got into the White House, and Bondie
has been the spokesperson the stark reversal on that in
(28:24):
the last hours is encouraging, but I'm still left with
a feeling we're never going to know the truth, and
that the onus is on the victims themselves to somehow
put together their own investigation to pursue.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
It shouldn't be It shouldn't be on the victims. It
should be on the government. The government should be producing everything.
They should be going to court and saying the public
interest outweighs any privacy interests at this point, and we
want to see everything out, but we haven't seen that
happen yet. And you're right to ask the question why.
But I'm so please. Is that President Trump has now
(29:02):
said he does want to make sure the Republicans vote
to release at least the congressional material, But I also
want the government to go in and try to release
the judicially suppressed material. Then maybe we can get close
to everything. What I want to see is every single document,
every video tape, every call, everything out there. You know,
not lawyer client privileged material if those are if they
(29:25):
have a special status, but everything else should be.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Out there allan what's the difference between the congressional documents
and the judicial documents, because as of right now only
congressional documents are being released.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
That's right. So the documents are depositions. I was supposed
for hours and hours, My false accuser was a cause
for hours and hours. Those have been suppressed, along with
everybody else in the Gallaine Maxwell case. In other cases
the judges have suppressed, and they've also suppressed grand jury minutes. Now,
(29:59):
I don't think grand jury minutes they're going to give
us very much because prosecutors, all I have to do
is send somebody into the grand jury to describe the evidence.
But the depositions are very substantial, and they involve people
very close to Jeffrey Fscene. I'm not at liberty to
disclose the names of these people because they're sealed, but
(30:20):
some of them are extremely close to e. F Scene,
and it would be very very important to have those
documents out there, and I think the judges should release
those documents. And they're more in many ways at least
as important.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Allen, before we move on to our other guests for
this evening, I'm very very disturbed by you, and I'm
circling back to it, parsing words on pedophilia. I just
want to be clear, your former client, Jeffrey Epstein Plague
(30:55):
guilty to solicitation and procurement of a minor of miners
for sex. Whether they're twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen,
as was the case, there is still a miner in
the eyes of the law. And as you know, in
other cases, girls as young as twelve have been sent
(31:17):
to Lolita Island.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
That has been documented.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Now in the case where he played guilty, the victim
was not twelve, but still a minor.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Allan, so people should say he is a convicted sex offender,
he is convicted of having sex with a minor, but
they shouldn't say he's a convicted pedophile because when you
combine the two words convicted, which means he's he depleted, guilty,
has been found guilty, and pedophile, it suggests that he
has been found guilty after due process of having sex
(31:50):
with twelve thirteen, fourteen years and that is the true
What he did is bad enough. All I'm I'm not
trying to defend them because it really doesn't make much
of a difference. All I'm suggested thing is that if
you want to be credible, let's get it all straight,
and let's make clear that he never pleaded guilty or
was found guilty of anything that, according to the Diagnostic
and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association and other
(32:13):
medical sources would label him a pedophile. You could disagree
and say it's a question of words, and I don't
think it makes it be.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Not disagree with the black and white definition of pedophile,
which is an attraction to pre pubescent children.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Pre pubescent. Let me break that down. That means the
girl doesn't have breast yet, she.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
May not have pubic here, she's around the age of
thirteen or younger typically speaking, but at this juncture, to
parse words about whether he's convicted pedophile or convicted child
sex molester or procuring sex with the minor is largely
(32:56):
a false argument. At this point, what do you think
is going to happen?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Alan?
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Now? Will we ever get the truth?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I think so. I think we're going to get the truth.
I think there's so much public pressure and there's so
much pressure from Congress that I think ultimately we're going
to see all the emails, We're going to see the videotapes.
If there are videotapes, and I know there are at
least some videotapes of what happened in the living room
of his house, because he arranged those videotapes with the
police in Bombage County because somebody had stolen material from him.
(33:28):
So I want everything out there, and I think that
the public has been pushing for that. You've been pushing
for it. Other people have been pushing, and I think
you're going to prevail. I think in the end everything
will come out. It will exculpate innocent people like me.
It will incumpate guilty people, and I don't know who
they are, but whoever they are should be found guilty.
And I think in the end the truth will prevail
(33:49):
because I'm interested, you know, as a professor, I'm interested
in the truth. As an advocate, obviously, I'm interested in
getting the best possible conclusion from my clients, But as
a professor, I'm interested in the truth and I want
the whole truth to come out, and I think it will,
and I think it will because of people like you
pushing so hard to get everything out there, and you should.
(34:11):
You should keep pushing. Don't stop.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Alan Dershowitz representing one nasty devil after the next. Thanks
for being with us tonight, allan, thank you.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Also represents the medicine loation represented the time Sharansky. I
represented Bill Clinton, I represented Ted Kennedy. That are all innocent,
but you know my representation. I also, as I said,
represented many women who have been abused and threatened and
so gay.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
To Kennedy, okay, I think I would leave him out
of that mix.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
That said, good night, sir.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Good night.
Speaker 10 (34:45):
After Jeffrey comes forward with her allegations, Epstein writes publicist
Peggy Siegel, urging her to suggest to Ariana Huffington that
Andrew's accuser is a total liar with a long criminal history.
In the Huffington Post should publish a story championing the
dangers of false allegations. Epstein denies the girl in the
photo was under each while in his employee claiming she
(35:07):
was a telephone answerer.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
So much is happening on the other side of the ocean.
Back to Rob Shooter, our favorite britt pr guru, we
are now learning in the email dump that Prince Andrew
tried to undermine claims that the photo of he and
(35:30):
Giffrey was faked. Epstein says, and I quote, yes, she
was on my plane talking about Jeffrey. Yes, she had
her picture taken with Andrew, as many employees have. Epstein
himself validates that photo, which leads me to my question, Rob.
(35:51):
Right now there is a move underfoot to have Andrew
and Frugie as well prosecuted for using their powers to
smear Virginia Jeffrey.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
What's happening this?
Speaker 13 (36:06):
This is really the topic of conversation in Britain. It's
going to be the conversation I think for several days now.
People are furious, people are outraged about this. If Andrew
used this tax payer security, we paid for this, we
paid for his protection. If he's using his security to
get himself out of some ugly, nasty, dirty situations, that
(36:30):
is a total, total outrage, and the British public will
not stand for it.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
I think the.
Speaker 13 (36:36):
Palace hoped that after they stripped him of his palace,
of his titles, we had stopped talking about him. But
this story is not going away, Nancy. There are still
too many questions. Andrew will be held accountable and this
story far from over.
Speaker 10 (36:53):
Royal biographer Andrew Lowney says it's likely Andrew and ex
wife Sarah Ferguson wind up behind bars, but he doesn't
believe it will be for sex trafficking. Lowney says the
case against Windsor is quite clear financial impropriety, misconduct in office,
and various public offenses. While Ferguson goes down for unscrupulous
use of charity money. Lowney predicts the divorces we'll flee
(37:17):
the country. Mount Batten likely taking advantage of the UAE's privacy,
much like Spain's former king Juan Carlos.
Speaker 15 (37:24):
She was the reason I came forward, and I know
the reason why so many others have as well. And
so she just walks such a fearless path that I
just wish that she were alive to see this day.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
That's from our friends at CBS as Danielle Binski and
Epstein victim. So where Virginia Jeffrey left off after her
untimely death, other victims have been reignited by her to
move forward, including on people within.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
The US and Andrew. So let me understand this.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Rob Sheeter, joining US PR guru and author of it,
started with a whisper on Amazon right now, and by
the way, it's amazing, Rob Shooter, Andrew and Fergie may
go down on nothing to do with Jeffrey. But without you, afraid,
this would never have happened. So what will they potentially
(38:19):
go down on?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
What crime?
Speaker 13 (38:22):
Financial crimes here?
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Nancy?
Speaker 13 (38:24):
Let's remember al Capone went to prison for tax evasion,
not for murdering people. And so what's happened here is
the Jeffrey Epstein case has pulled the thread into a
royal couple who use their power in the most outrageous way.
We've pulled the thread and now more is going to
be coming out. He was a trade ambassador for years.
They always had a dodgy reputation. Now it looks like
(38:47):
they are outright grifters. This will be easier to prove
because the Monday trail doesn't disappear. They're pulling at this
and people are assuming. People are pretty much confident that
this is going to prove some really serious financial crimes.
Andrew did not have a lot of money. So you think,
(39:08):
as a prince, the son of Queen Elizabeth, he would
have millions and millions.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
He didn't.
Speaker 13 (39:13):
He had barely any money of his own. He didn't
really have a job, so how did he live like this?
A lot of people are saying Jeffrey Epstein paid and
who else? Who else paid? We're about to find.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Did you see that multimillion dollar view that Epstein had?
Speaker 3 (39:30):
That?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
These stinks when you think about some pos abusing her
in that massage room looking out over that beach. They
can all go straight to ATENLEL.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Ryan A.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Pitchford. Is it real? Will we truly see the Epstein files?
Speaker 2 (39:47):
To Eric Fattus joining US, veteran trial lawyer joining US
out of Colorado, founding partner of Varner Fattus, elite legal
and former felony prosecutor. Eric There's a big difference between
releasing congressional files, which are a lot of emails and
included excerpts from Filthy Rich. That's a streaming show. Nobody cares.
(40:09):
It's a streaming movie made about Epstein. No one cares.
Those files are one thing. The DOJ and judicial files
are an entirely different matter and contain judicial documents such
as depositions, filings, motions, subpoenas, affidavits. The DOJ files will
(40:35):
include terabytes of video taken from the Epstein homes, the mansion,
Lalita Island and beyond Palm Beach.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
That's what we need. The DOJ and the judicial files.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Is this real fattest and how long can we be stonewalled?
Speaker 16 (40:53):
Well, Nancy, those DOJ files, they really contained the guts
of this substance of investigation that I think has spanned years,
if not longer, but potentially decades. You know, they're going
to have probably interviews with witnesses, interviews with alleged victims.
They're gonna have photographs, videos. This is really the heart
of the matter, that this is what the public wants
(41:14):
to see. You know, some emails between two people, you know,
vaguely discussing something or other is one thing. But we're
talking about serious investigative materials that function as evidence and
that can give the public a true glipse into what
this investigation held and what it's conclusion.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
For crime stories with Nancy Grace and Eric Fatas, here
is the danger in that The danger is that innocent people.
For instance, Dershowitz, he may represent a lot of dirty
(41:54):
dogs that are totally guilty of the worst crimes imaginable,
But the fact that he flew on a private plane
with Epstein does not implicate him in wrongdoing or Trump.
Whether Trump piled around with Epstein, that does not mean
he did anything wrong. However, it's not just those two.
(42:17):
There are many many other people that met with Epstein
on different matters that are totally innocent.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
They will be, as I say, in the same pot,
distu with the guilty.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
But that's the price of full transparency, correct it is?
Speaker 16 (42:33):
You know, I think there's going to be significant collateral
damage here, like you're referencing Nancy. You know, there are
folks who are going to be caught in the cross
heres who may be engaged in no wrongdoing at all.
There might even be implications or outright accusations from people
that turn out to be false. You know, Jeffrey Epstein
is not the most credible dude. Prince Antrew is not
the most credible dude. And so if they're pointing fingers
(42:55):
at folks, that's.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Certainly putting perfume on the pig, you know.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
I mean, think about it, fattest, how many times have
you been alone with the worst the convicted fell on, that.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Molested children, that committed a crime.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I remember driving all over Atlanta with a convicted rapist
who had been out of jail for X number of years,
and I needed him to lead me to a cereal
child molester. We drove all over Atlanta, him and me
in the car for hours and hours. Could it look bad? Yeah,
(43:32):
it could look bad. So that's what I'm talking about.
And you've been in the same position, and I don't
want innocent people implicated. But for these crime victims, there
must be a full release of the files. Victoria Churchill
joining US US political reporter Deally mail in a nutshell Victoria,
And it can get really complicated.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
What is the Transparency Act?
Speaker 5 (43:56):
Yes, so the Epstein Files Transparency Act is the bill
that was introduced in Congress bipartisan with Thomas Massey and Rocanna.
It is for the DoD to release their files. Now
that is a congressional bill, But of course the big
question comes into can Congress absolutely mandate the DOJ to
(44:18):
release every single file?
Speaker 6 (44:20):
And then if they.
Speaker 5 (44:21):
Can, the redactions, of course, are the big question. As
you pointed out, the files that have already been released
contain extensive redactions. The Department of Justice will most likely
argue that that is to protect the victims. But if
you've also looked at press conferences, the victims say they
want all of the files released so that people know
(44:42):
the extent of Epstein's crimes.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
For so long, you've been told there is no client list,
and the onus has been put on the crime victims,
some of them just twelve years old at the time
they were molested to come up with that. Will we
finally get the documents necessary to create that client list
what and hand it over to the government to pursue Listen, I.
Speaker 15 (45:04):
Feel a lot of the time that survivors are being
asked to come forward with all of this, and I
just in feeling like, you know, they just need to
do their jobs and find the names.
Speaker 17 (45:16):
I have been threatened considerably. I've been threatened, uh in
phone calls, in packages that have arrived at my house
with unpleasant contents. I do believe that they might be
intended to silence me, certainly to frighten me into perhaps
not coming forward and not being as persistent.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Those are victims of Epstein and others. That was Danielle
Binski and Anuska de Georgious from CBS and BBC. Even
if this is real, it's not a smokescreen, and we
do get the DOJ and judicial documents, There's.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Still another problem. Juline Maxwell.
Speaker 14 (46:02):
Trump's Gawayne Maxwell problem is just as serious as his
Epstein problem. Maxwell's transferred to Club FED just days after
assuring Deputy Attorney General Blanche Trump did not participate in
the abuse, appears to be quite the quid pro quo.
In addition to the low security facilities general privileges, Maxwell
is reportedly demanding VIP treatment that has the warden complaining
(46:26):
she's tired of being Maxwell's bitch.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Maxwell getting custom meals behind bars?
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Who's allowing this?
Speaker 10 (46:37):
Maxwell reportedly receives custom meals in her cell, enjoys private
exercise time and access to service puppies. Warden Hall ordered
to make all requested accommodations for Maxwell, including carrying out
secretarial duties on her behalf, providing snacks for her private
meetings with guests, letting her visitors bring in computers, and
(46:57):
punishing staff members who refuse to cooperate. Haul is also
rumored to be personally assisting Maxwell in preparing a commutation application.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Sidney Sumner joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter. This looks bad,
and you know what it is bad, Gallaine Max was
a convicted child sex trafficker and she's getting special meals
behind bars. If Trump pardons her, all hell is gonna
break loose.
Speaker 6 (47:28):
Absolutely, this is a huge problem for his administration. On
top of the Epstein files, Gallainne Maxwell's treatment is just
horrifying for victims who went through years of testimony and
depositions and trying to get Maxwell put behind bars, and
now she's getting treated like a VIP star client. It's awful.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
To Lynn Shaw joining us, Gallaine Maxwell's special treatment.
Speaker 11 (47:58):
Yeah, hard to say those words special treatment. We also
hear we don't have proof, but we hear from some sources.
She's also picked up once or twice a week in
a big black suv and disappears for a few hours. Now,
if this isn't a slap in the face of all victims,
not only of this crime duo, but of all sex trafficking,
sexually exploited women, even men, boys, girls. What's going on here?
(48:22):
Why aren't more people out screaming about this one? The
proof's in the pudding.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Barry Levine joining us, author of The Spider inside the
Tangled Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Galline Maxwell, veteran investigative.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Reporter and editor.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Barry, I'm actually afraid to get my hopes up. We've
discussed the problems of the innocent being thrown in the
pot with the guilty on this. We've discussed the reactions,
We've discussed the possibility that this.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Is a smoke screen.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Again, if the government was intent on getting the guys
that TuS did these, then girls, all they have to
do is read your book.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Explain it's not rocket size.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
You've laid it all out, particularly the financial trail.
Speaker 4 (49:16):
That's absolutely correct, Nancy, and in fact Senator Ron Wyden,
who went down the financial road, identified more than one
billion dollars in dubious and suspicious wire transfers that Jeffrey
Epstein sent through Russian banks, through American banks, to enablers,
to men who were helping him over two decades to
(49:41):
bring little girls from foreign countries, putting them on planes,
dressing them up in college sweatshirts so they would look older,
to bring these girls to islands. There's a money trail,
more than one billion dollars in money that Jeffrey Epstein
sent out to conduct his sex trafficking. And it's all there, it's.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
All in the financial records.
Speaker 4 (50:05):
And why hasn't the Justice Department continued to look into this?
Why are we getting these whistleblowers who are only now
coming forward. You know, it is so upsetting to me
and on behalf of the victims that we're not seeing justice,
as I said earlier. Representative Tom Massey said that there's
(50:26):
twenty men on his list who received sex trafficking from
Jeffrey Epstein. Six billionaires, one of them from Canada, people
in the government, people from the music industry, a royal
who we know is Prince Andrew, even though he's denied
any wrongdoing. We need to see the files, We need
(50:48):
to see what the FBI did over the years to
investigate these men.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Finally, justice for Epstein's victims or another smoke screen to
doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renowned psychoanalyst, Doctor Bethany, your
advice to the crime victims as we wait to find
out the answer to that question, justice or smokescreen?
Speaker 12 (51:15):
Well, I would say to the victims there are no innocence.
I disagree with everybody on this panel. I think anybody
who was on the plane the Lalita Express had to
have seen something. You can't be on an island with
twelve year olds dressed up like college kids and think
that nothing is amiss. The offending pattern, I would say
to the victims. As I said earlier, the offending pattern
(51:36):
is going on. Rich powerful people are using Gillan Maxwell
are using withholding documents to maintain their power, privilege and
their dark secrecy. But don't you worry, victims, because there
are disruptors in society, positive disruptors like Nancy, the people
(51:57):
on this panel, people who care about you, who want
to protect you. And I do believe that those disruptors
will win out at the beat at the end.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
Of the day.
Speaker 12 (52:05):
And you, dear victim, are a disruptor too. You are
standing up for victims who will come after you. You're
playing a very important role. And whenever you think you
cannot trust somebody, a partner, a child, a parent, think
about the people who are coming forward and also speaking
on your behalf, and think about those people so that
you can stabilize your attachment systems and have a really
(52:28):
good life, which is what you deserve.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Tonight we remember an American hero, Corporal Blake Reynolds, Delaware
County Sheriff's Indiana, killed in the line of duty, leaving
behind a graving wife, now widow Allison. American hero Corporal
Blake middles Nancy Gray signing off, Goodbye f
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Ricky News Tonight bombshell the Epstein files to be released finally.
Is it justice or just another smoke screen? I'm Nancy Grace,
this is Crime Stories.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
I never thought i'd see the day when we had
to go to Washington and demand a child sex molester's
files become public.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
What is this? Russia? China? H E double l n oh.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
I ain't shutting up about this. Will there finally be
justice for Epstein victims? Not just Epstein? But when I
say Epstein, I'm talking about many, many powerful and or
wealthy men that absolutely engaged.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
In sex with minors. We know, do we not?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Straight out to Barry Levine joining us, author of The
Spider inside the Tangle Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Gallain Maxwell,
we know beyond a doubt that.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Girls as young as twelve years old were flown to
Lolita Island. Isn't that true?
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (01:14):
It is true, Nancy, And the only way we're going
to get justice for these victims. And the Department of
Justice told us there's more than a thousand victims of
Jeffrey Epstein and Gahlain Maxwell is to see these files,
is to see the one hundred thousand pages of documents
that include police reports, depositions, interviews, and focus in on
(01:35):
the twenty men that Representative Tom Massey said have been
sex trafficked by Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Absolutely, and my point is in the last hours a
stark reversal where President Trump is now calling for the
release of the files. But something very very critical to
Victoria Churchill joining us US political investigative.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Reporter for deallymail dot com.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
We need the release of the DOJ, Department of Justice,
and Judicial files, not just the congressional files.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I'm not parsing words.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
The congressional files consist largely of email and phone conversations.
The DOJ and judicial files consist of depositions, terrabytes and
terrabytes of evidence that has been amassed by the DOJ.
I'm talking about videos, terribites of videos taken in the
(02:45):
Epstein homes, taken at Lolita Island and beyond. The judicial
and DOJ files are much more extensive than the congressional files.
Giving me the congressional files is going to advance that much.
We need it all, explain Victoria Churchill. The most recent
(03:08):
order from the White House regarding the Epstein files for Victoria.
Speaker 5 (03:13):
Sure so, President Donald Trump, on his way back from
mar A Lago in Florida last night, said that he
is totally okay with Republicans in the US House of
Representatives voting for the DOJ files to be released. That,
of course, is after this discharge petition led by Thomas Massey,
is mentioned by your other guest, as well as Marjory
Taylor Green, who Trump has had a field day with
(03:36):
over the past weekend, you know, insulting her mainly because
she has been one of the main people who is
pushing to go ahead and live, you know, to release
these files, as well as other representatives, you know, other
Republican female representatives. But now it looks like that even
though those signatures on that discharge petition hit that to
(03:57):
eighteen number that they needed last week, excuse me with
the swernon of Adelita Grihalva, who of course they took
fifty days to swear her in Congress, but she was
out last signature on that petition. Now Speaker Mike Johnson
said last week that it will be up for a
vote this week, and now Trump is saying okay, Republicans
can vote for it, so that is a change in
the position that he has had throughout his time in office.
(04:21):
But I also do want to note that in September
of twenty twenty four, when he was on the campaign trail,
he actually promised to release the files related to Epstein,
as well as JFK and even MLK. So it's kind
of interesting how the President has flip flopped on this.
But I also think that goes to show that he
doesn't think that he will be implicated in anything nefarious
(04:43):
in these files, and so I think that really two things.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Can be true.
Speaker 5 (04:46):
I think his name can be mentioned as a former
business associate of Epstein. You know, in the Daily Mail,
we constantly run pictures of Trump and Milania at mar
A Lago with Epstein, with Maxwell, they were known associates.
That's undeniable. However, his name can be all over the
files and he cannot be implicated in anything nefarious, which
I think is what will what we will.
Speaker 6 (05:06):
Discover to be the truth.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
In the last hours of start reversal from the White House,
Trump now claiming he wants the Epstein files release after
much furor over the past months. Why why the turnaround.
Do we care or is this just another smoke screen Listen.
Speaker 7 (05:26):
To glame, Maxwell Epstein writes, Trump spent hours at my
house with a victim. Corresponding with Trump biographer Michael Wolfe,
Epstein says, of course Trump knew about the girls. He
asked Elaine to stop wolf Warren's Epstein. Trump will be
asked about their relationship at an upcoming debate, and the
two discuss hop answers may benefit Epstein.
Speaker 8 (05:46):
These emails prove absolutely nothing other than the fact that
President Trump did nothing wrong. And what President Trump has
always said is that he was from Palm Beach and
so was Jeffrey Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein was a member at
Marla until President Trump kicked him out because Jeffrey Epstein
was a pedophile and he was a creep.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
What we are hearing is just more political mumbo jump by.
For instance, is time to move on from the Democrat
hoax perpetrated.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
By the radical left lunatics.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
But nobody cares about politics on this. This is about
crime victims that were raped as children.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
Listen.
Speaker 9 (06:29):
For so many years, it felt like Epstein's criminal behavior
was an open secret. Not only did many others participate
in the abuse. It is clear that many were aware
of his interest in girls and very young women and
chose to look the other way because it benefited them
to do so. They wanted access to his circle and
(06:50):
his money. Their choice to align with his power left
those of us who had been harmed by this man
and his associates feeling very isolated.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
That's from Representative Thomas Massey on X Is this real
we are now learning in the last hours of White
House has done an abrupt u turn demanding the release
of the Epstein files. But so far we have been stonewalled,
one smokescreen after the next, being led to believe we're
finding the truth, only to find out it's all bs.
(07:22):
For instance, in the last days, the House Oversight Committee
releases twenty thousand documents They were nothing.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Listen.
Speaker 10 (07:33):
The House Oversight Committee releases twenty thousand documents subpoenat from
Epstein's estate on the heels of a smaller release, implying
President Trump knew about Epstein's abuse. The documents include thousands
of emails with high profile contacts, financial and property records,
excerpts from James Patterson's Filthy Rich in records of Epstein's
(07:54):
fixer's desperate attempts to improve his public image.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
Joining me now and Shaw.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
She is a founderer and director of Lynn's Warriors, dedicated
to ending sex exploitation and human trafficking. If this is
just another Roos, I think there's going to be an insurrection.
Speaker 11 (08:18):
All absolutely coming straight from the Warriors leading the charge.
Because let's call this what this is, Nancy, I see
this as kicking the can.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Down the road.
Speaker 11 (08:28):
That's what's happening.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Take that as you may.
Speaker 11 (08:31):
We do have something we are urging starting today six
am this morning, every member of Congress.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
It's called the.
Speaker 11 (08:37):
Epstein Files Transparency Act. And I'll tell you why we're
doing this. Even though we want, you know, more from
the Justice Department. That's where it is right now. We
will not be silenced about any of this. We're going
to keep up the pressure. We're going to keep showing
up in front of Congress. We're going to keep talking
about it because these women are numbered in one thousand plus.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
That's what we know about.
Speaker 11 (08:58):
And all of the women in Vidio I keep seeing.
We know all of those women, and they bravely are
coming forward to speak on behalf of those who cannot speak,
and all of them have trauma in their own lives.
And there's a wonderful video we put out today from
our colleagues at World Without Exploitation, and everybody should see
it because these are women who have come forward, who say,
hold up a picture. I am twelve, this is me
(09:21):
when I met Jeffrey Epstein, I am fourteen, this is
me when I met Jeffrey Epstein. And it's a whole
slew of women. So let me tell you more of
this kicking the can down the road.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
We are not having it.
Speaker 11 (09:31):
We're going to keep the pressure up.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
As a matter of fact, let's take a look at
Lynnshaw's video.
Speaker 10 (09:36):
I was fourteen years old.
Speaker 9 (09:38):
I was sixteen years old.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
I was sixteen, seventeen, fourteen years old.
Speaker 12 (09:42):
This is me, this was me, this is me when
I met Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 13 (09:46):
This is me when I met Jeffrey Epstein.
Speaker 14 (09:51):
It's time to bring the secrets out of the shadows.
It's time to shine a light into the darkness.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Doctor Bethany Marshall joining us psychoas from the California Jurisdiction, Author.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
And star on Peacock.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
You can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com,
Doctor Bethany.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
The victims have been through so much.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
You and I have dealt with child molestation, child rape victims,
our whole lives essentially since we got into me the
legal business, you the psycho analysts business, doctor Bethany, after
living through what they've lived through as children, after waiting
all these years, now they hear from the White House
(10:34):
release the files for what the second or third time?
If this is another smoke screen and it's all bs,
I'm just a trial lawyer, Bethany, but I would conjecture
that will cause irreparable damage for the President to say
release the files and then it not happen again, and.
Speaker 12 (10:59):
Nancy causes a ruppable damage because it's part of the
same offending pattern. The victims in all of their interviews
are saying that once they were on the island as minors,
as once after they were sex trafficked, that Epstein would
stalk them and would offer them jobs at like say
modeling agency or with a with a media mogul, or
(11:22):
to give them a singing contract or something like that,
the same offending pattern as P Diddy. He would just
get ahead of the story by offering them goodies offering
to promote their career. Now, isn't that the same thing
that politicians are doing with the public. They're just getting
ahead of the story. They're offering us something. They're saying, Look, children,
(11:45):
we are going to release all these files and you're
going to learn so much.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Joining me now A P. R.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Gury Robsheeter, you know him well, author of a brand
new hit book on Amazon. It started with a whisper, rob.
Very often a cover up ends up being worse than
the actual crime, right, the cover up intensifies the crime.
(12:11):
In this case, I don't know, other than murder, what
could be worse than molesting children?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
But trying to suppress that evidence is.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Even more wrongdoing heaped on top. Now, I want you
to hear something, Rob Sheeter, and you're gonna have to
take it with a box, not a pinch, a box
of salt.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
But listen to this.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
Epstein's mcc cellmate X cop Nicholas Tartaglioni claims Epstein told
him prosecutors were really after Trump, and Maureen Comy promised
Epstein a deal as long as he implicated the President
in his crimes. Joey told Epstein he did not have
to prove anything as long as Trump could not disprove it.
Tartaglioni claims Epstein told him Trump was not involved.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Rob, you and I are so far on the outside
looking in. We hear that Trump told Glaine Maxwell to
quote stop what she and Epstein were doing, which of
course does suggest guilty conscience, but also an effort to
stop what was happening.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Here.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
We hear from a cellmate. Yes he's a seal mate,
that means he's convicted, but also an ex cop, and
he says Epstein was being pushed to a deal where
he would implicate Trump before he was killed behind bars.
Before Epstein was killed behind bars, and was told you
(13:37):
don't have to prove it because Trump can't disprove it.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
My question that was.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
The lead up, Rob, Do you believe Trump has been
afraid to release these files because of the damage to
his reputation, Not that he necessarily did anything wrong, but
that it would be so damning his friendship with Epstein.
Speaker 13 (14:03):
Very good question, Nancy. I believe the answer to that
is most likely yes. However, I can't be totally confident
in my answer because we haven't seen the documents. We
haven't seen the information. This is why stories, conspiracy theories,
maybe even the truth is all just swishing around because
(14:26):
we don't have all the information. This information has to
be released, Nancy. It's got to the point now where
I agree with you. It has to be released. And
I think at this point we are gonna be absolutely
shocked with what we find out. However, I think that
is going to be better than saying nothing. The current
(14:49):
situation cannot sustain itself.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
And again I do not like to veer into politics, but.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
We practically had to hold a hot poker to his
rear end to get Trump to go this far. Was
he so afraid of what would be in those files,
whether he did anything wrong or not, that he had
knowledge of what was happening that he was implicated in
that he was on the plane that he was with Epstein.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Has that been the hold up?
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Or are their more powerful people even more powerful that
will be implicated. The concern has been so far, and
we know Rob Shooter that a lot of the files
have been redacted. In other words, you get a piece
of paper and half of it has been marked out
with a black magic marker. Names to protect the innocent
have been redacted but when these files are released, they
(15:45):
very likely may not be redacted. So a lot of
innocent people are going to be thrown in the same
pot to stew with the guilty.
Speaker 3 (15:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 13 (15:54):
Yeah, all the names are going to come out. Anybody
that has had any interaction, emails, exchange with Jeffrey, It's
all going to come out.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
When you said, is there somebody.
Speaker 13 (16:02):
Even more powerful than the President of the United States here,
I just can't think of that person. I've worked this
business a long time. No celebrity, no billionaire, is more
powerful at the moment than the President of the United States,
So I don't think I buy that. I also have
worked around the Trump family for over thirty years. When
(16:23):
he was in the entertainment business. He would often invite
me to Trump Tower, to the celebrity Apprentice set. He
is a master, a master at reading the public, and
so the fact that he has decided it is better
off to take all this anger, to take all this
all this really valid emotion, and not release all the
(16:45):
information tells me he really really wants to hide.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Him In this case, Rob Sheeter, the innocent are going
to be thrown in the same part with the guilty
diste but that is the price for full transparency. Joining
us tonight is a very special guest who has once
again landed at the forefront of the national news because
(17:10):
of Jeffrey Epstein. May Epstein rot in Hell. I'd like
to start, of course, the news of the night is
President Trump's stark reversal on releasing the Epstein files, and
they are volume us. The twenty thousand documents we've gotten
so far as only a very small percentage of what
(17:32):
there is. Just imagine it goes by years and years
and years. And Allen, you've seen cases with thousands and
thousands and thousands of documents. But before we get into that,
I want to make it very clear. At one time
Professor Dershowitz was accused of molesting Virginia Giffrey.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
It has been agreed upon by Geffrey and her lawyers
that Dershowitz was not involved.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
That said, Alan, you have landed in the middle of
a stink bomb on this case.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
And part of it is because just recently.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
You parsed words on Epstein's conviction. Remember that conviction in
the early two thousands where he plagued guilty to solicitation
of a minor. Remember that many people call that pedophilia,
but you are saying, no, it was not pedophilia.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Well, I just think we have to get our words right.
Pedophilia means very young girls thirteen, fourteen twelve. The woman
that he the girl that he admitted to having sought
sex on, was seventeen years and ten months. That's terrible,
and it's a crime, and it's underage, but it's not pedophilia.
And so you can't say he's been convicted of pedophilia.
(18:56):
Not that it makes such a difference, because he was
accused of terrible, terrible things, including relatively young people. But
let's get it's bad enough without distorting the reality. And
so what he did was horrible. What he did was inexcusable,
and the moment I found out that he did it,
I terminated my friendship with him. And by the way,
the newly released documents proved that I was telling you
(19:19):
the truth when I said that Jeffrey hated my guts.
It his emails, he talks about me being mentally ill.
He talked about me being a terrible, terrible lawyer. If
I had ever done anything wrong, the first thing you
would have done was reveal it to people. But he didn't.
So I'm glad these new emails are coming out, and
I'm glad that President Trump has finally agreed to urge
(19:41):
people to vote to have everything come out. The day
I was falsely accused, I announced I want everything out.
I want the FBI to investigate me. I waive all
privileges because I knew I hadn't done anything wrong and
therefore everything would exculpate me. Is of course, as of
course it has. So if you're innocent, you should want
everything out, and if you're guilty.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Should crime stories with Nancy Grace, you know, I'm very
curious as to why this has been such an obstacle
in DC, why these files have been It's like hide
(20:25):
the ball. From the very beginning, we've gotten conflicting statements.
We've been told by BONDI they're sitting right here on
my desk, I've got the client list.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
But then claiming, oh, there is no such thing. Do
they think we're idiots?
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Alan, Well, there is a list, a list of FBI
names that the FBI got in interviewing the victims. And
there is such a list. I've seen it, and the
names have been redacted. Some of them has been made public.
Being on the list doesn't necessarily mean you're guilty. It
means somebody has accused you. But there is such a
(20:59):
li There's no Jeffrey Epstein client list. He didn't have
a little book in which he said, this woman is
going to go to this guy, this woman is going
to go here or there. There's no such lists like that.
But the FBI does have names that they're suppressing. And
the judges, judges, this is the important point. Judges have
been suppressing information. They have sealed depositions, including in my case,
(21:21):
and I'd love to see all those depositions. I made
motions in court to get them revealed, but the courts
have said no. The courts have said we're not going
to release this. So the courts have been suppressing information.
The government has been suppressing information. Now I think we're
going to see the government information out there, but the
court information is still going to be suppressed. And I
think that your program, other programs have the right to
(21:44):
go to court and say, look, please, the public has
the right to see this. Let's unseal these depositions.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Now. Alan having built many, many, so many cases, I
can't remember them anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I can't keep count of them.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
But I'm confounded in the face of so many allegations
and so many victims that I believe victims of Epstein,
your former client, victims of his friends, child trafficking girls
as young as twelve years old, and we've been able
to document that from all around the world, from Turkey,
(22:23):
from the stands, all going, many of them anyway to
Lolita Island. There have to be witnesses, Alan, there has
to be documentation of their flights, their fairy rides. What
I don't understand, Alan, is why, at this juncture, in
the face of overwhelming evidence, there is not a full
(22:44):
on investigation of who these men are.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Epstein's dead.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Can we now focus on other offenders? Why are they
being protected? And why is there not an ongoing federal investigation?
Part of hearing about politics, Alan, I'm tired of hearing
about what Trump wants and Bonding wants, and the Democrats want,
the Republicans want.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Why isn't there a.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
Federal investigation finding the names of these alleged perpetrators and
prosecuting them.
Speaker 3 (23:15):
I agree with that if they're guilty, they should be prosecuted,
but at the same time, all information should be released
about whether or not these accusations are true, false, or
somewhere in between. We have to hear all sides of
the issue. I wrote a book called Guilt by Accusation.
You can't find somebody guilty just because they're accused. They
have to have a due process right to defend themselves.
(23:38):
But I think every name should be revealed, everybody who's
been on the island, everybody who's been on the airplanes, everybody.
Then they have to explain what they were doing on
the island, what they were doing on the airplane, what
they were doing in the house. I've done that. I've
explained that completely, and everything I've ever said has been
completely corroborated by the release of the recent email. So
(23:59):
I think is a case in point. If you're innocent,
please please push to have everything revealed. If you're guilty,
I understand you're a little bit reluctant to have the
truth come out. But if you're innocent, you want the
truth to come out.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
Well, Allan, I appreciate that I do, and I agree
with you, but I am not suggesting guilt by accusation
or trial in the media. What I'm saying is I
keep hearing about there is no client list.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Well, it's just like a witness list.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
A police report or an allegation by a victim is
not a client list. You, the prosecutor, have to go
and create the witness list. You have to investigate. I'm
not asking for trial by media. I'm saying, why Allan,
is there not an investigation into these claims? Why are
we talking about there's no client list, Well, go make
(24:57):
one investigate. Find out who they are are when they
were there, who are their victims? These victims are now
adult women. They can can say what happened to them.
I don't understand what's the hold up?
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I agree completely. Look there is I've seen it. I've
held it in my hand. There is an FBI report
in which the names are redacted, in which victims say
these are the men ABCD, they identified them by name,
and the court has required that all those names be redacted,
and cross that they shouldn't be. I want every single
(25:34):
name released, and I went to court to try to
get every name released, but the people whose names are
there obviously don't want them released. But at this point
in time, every name should be made public, every accusation
should be made public, and then the people whose names
are on the list should have an opportunity to explain,
to deny, to disprove. But right now, nobody benefits from suppression.
(25:58):
And that's why I'm so upset at courts, courts, federal
judges keeping names out. They shouldn't be doing that. I
want to see that FBI unredacted list of the names,
and then we can judge whether the allegations are true
or false.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
Which leads me allan to the question why.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Normally, as you know, in a criminal proceeding, the state
doesn't have to prove motive.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
But I'm curious because I think it will lead me
to more wrongdoing.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Why do you believe that these names have been suppressed
as you say redacted, But I think they're being suppressed.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
They are, They are being suppressed, and they're being suppressed
by federal judges. So let's get the federal judges to
release every name of everybody and release the name of
information that might undercut the claims. Let me give you
an example. There's a woman named Sarah videotapes of Donald Trump,
(26:59):
Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, Richard Branson and others having sex
with the young children. So okay, So she sent hundreds
of emails to the New York Post making those allegations.
Then she admitted she made the whole thing up. So
if you're going to release the accusations, you also have
to release the admission that she made it up. So
(27:19):
as long as we get the whole picture, innocent people
shouldn't be concerned. Guilty people should be concerned. But that's
the process of criminal justice to distinguish between the innocent
and the guilty. So please let's release everything. I have
an interest, obviously, because I'm innocent and I want everything
out there. Other people have an interest in suppressing it.
But the interest in suppressing it shouldn't prevail. The public
(27:42):
has the right to know Allan.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I'm sure that you can understand why all of us, the.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Regular people who were not on the inside of this
investigation what you have been, are stymied.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
We don't understand.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
And you know how I feel about politics, Alan, We've
discussed it before. I don't care if you're a Republican
agreeing a Democrat. Don't care. But we were told these
would be released. Then there's an sudden about face. As
soon as Trump got into the White House, and Bondie
has been the spokesperson the stark reversal on that in
(28:24):
the last hours is encouraging, but I'm still left with
a feeling we're never going to know the truth, and
that the onus is on the victims themselves to somehow
put together their own investigation to pursue.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
It shouldn't be It shouldn't be on the victims. It
should be on the government. The government should be producing everything.
They should be going to court and saying the public
interest outweighs any privacy interests at this point, and we
want to see everything out, but we haven't seen that
happen yet. And you're right to ask the question why.
But I'm so please. Is that President Trump has now
(29:02):
said he does want to make sure the Republicans vote
to release at least the congressional material, But I also
want the government to go in and try to release
the judicially suppressed material. Then maybe we can get close
to everything. What I want to see is every single document,
every video tape, every call, everything out there. You know,
not lawyer client privileged material if those are if they
(29:25):
have a special status, but everything else should be.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Out there allan what's the difference between the congressional documents
and the judicial documents, because as of right now only
congressional documents are being released.
Speaker 3 (29:38):
That's right. So the documents are depositions. I was supposed
for hours and hours, My false accuser was a cause
for hours and hours. Those have been suppressed, along with
everybody else in the Gallaine Maxwell case. In other cases
the judges have suppressed, and they've also suppressed grand jury minutes. Now,
(29:59):
I don't think grand jury minutes they're going to give
us very much because prosecutors, all I have to do
is send somebody into the grand jury to describe the evidence.
But the depositions are very substantial, and they involve people
very close to Jeffrey Fscene. I'm not at liberty to
disclose the names of these people because they're sealed, but
(30:20):
some of them are extremely close to e. F Scene,
and it would be very very important to have those
documents out there, and I think the judges should release
those documents. And they're more in many ways at least
as important.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Allen, before we move on to our other guests for
this evening, I'm very very disturbed by you, and I'm
circling back to it, parsing words on pedophilia. I just
want to be clear, your former client, Jeffrey Epstein Plague
(30:55):
guilty to solicitation and procurement of a minor of miners
for sex. Whether they're twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen,
as was the case, there is still a miner in
the eyes of the law. And as you know, in
other cases, girls as young as twelve have been sent
(31:17):
to Lolita Island.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
That has been documented.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Now in the case where he played guilty, the victim
was not twelve, but still a minor.
Speaker 3 (31:27):
Allan, so people should say he is a convicted sex offender,
he is convicted of having sex with a minor, but
they shouldn't say he's a convicted pedophile because when you
combine the two words convicted, which means he's he depleted, guilty,
has been found guilty, and pedophile, it suggests that he
has been found guilty after due process of having sex
(31:50):
with twelve thirteen, fourteen years and that is the true
What he did is bad enough. All I'm I'm not
trying to defend them because it really doesn't make much
of a difference. All I'm suggested thing is that if
you want to be credible, let's get it all straight,
and let's make clear that he never pleaded guilty or
was found guilty of anything that, according to the Diagnostic
and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association and other
(32:13):
medical sources would label him a pedophile. You could disagree
and say it's a question of words, and I don't
think it makes it be.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
Not disagree with the black and white definition of pedophile,
which is an attraction to pre pubescent children.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Pre pubescent. Let me break that down. That means the
girl doesn't have breast yet, she.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
May not have pubic here, she's around the age of
thirteen or younger typically speaking, but at this juncture, to
parse words about whether he's convicted pedophile or convicted child
sex molester or procuring sex with the minor is largely
(32:56):
a false argument. At this point, what do you think
is going to happen?
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Alan?
Speaker 1 (33:01):
Now? Will we ever get the truth?
Speaker 3 (33:05):
I think so. I think we're going to get the truth.
I think there's so much public pressure and there's so
much pressure from Congress that I think ultimately we're going
to see all the emails, We're going to see the videotapes.
If there are videotapes, and I know there are at
least some videotapes of what happened in the living room
of his house, because he arranged those videotapes with the
police in Bombage County because somebody had stolen material from him.
(33:28):
So I want everything out there, and I think that
the public has been pushing for that. You've been pushing
for it. Other people have been pushing, and I think
you're going to prevail. I think in the end everything
will come out. It will exculpate innocent people like me.
It will incumpate guilty people, and I don't know who
they are, but whoever they are should be found guilty.
And I think in the end the truth will prevail
(33:49):
because I'm interested, you know, as a professor, I'm interested
in the truth. As an advocate, obviously, I'm interested in
getting the best possible conclusion from my clients, But as
a professor, I'm interested in the truth and I want
the whole truth to come out, and I think it will,
and I think it will because of people like you
pushing so hard to get everything out there, and you should.
(34:11):
You should keep pushing. Don't stop.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Alan Dershowitz representing one nasty devil after the next. Thanks
for being with us tonight, allan, thank you.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Also represents the medicine loation represented the time Sharansky. I
represented Bill Clinton, I represented Ted Kennedy. That are all innocent,
but you know my representation. I also, as I said,
represented many women who have been abused and threatened and
so gay.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
To Kennedy, okay, I think I would leave him out
of that mix.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
That said, good night, sir.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Good night.
Speaker 10 (34:45):
After Jeffrey comes forward with her allegations, Epstein writes publicist
Peggy Siegel, urging her to suggest to Ariana Huffington that
Andrew's accuser is a total liar with a long criminal history.
In the Huffington Post should publish a story championing the
dangers of false allegations. Epstein denies the girl in the
photo was under each while in his employee claiming she
(35:07):
was a telephone answerer.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
So much is happening on the other side of the ocean.
Back to Rob Shooter, our favorite britt pr guru, we
are now learning in the email dump that Prince Andrew
tried to undermine claims that the photo of he and
(35:30):
Giffrey was faked. Epstein says, and I quote, yes, she
was on my plane talking about Jeffrey. Yes, she had
her picture taken with Andrew, as many employees have. Epstein
himself validates that photo, which leads me to my question, Rob.
(35:51):
Right now there is a move underfoot to have Andrew
and Frugie as well prosecuted for using their powers to
smear Virginia Jeffrey.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
What's happening this?
Speaker 13 (36:06):
This is really the topic of conversation in Britain. It's
going to be the conversation I think for several days now.
People are furious, people are outraged about this. If Andrew
used this tax payer security, we paid for this, we
paid for his protection. If he's using his security to
get himself out of some ugly, nasty, dirty situations, that
(36:30):
is a total, total outrage, and the British public will
not stand for it.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
I think the.
Speaker 13 (36:36):
Palace hoped that after they stripped him of his palace,
of his titles, we had stopped talking about him. But
this story is not going away, Nancy. There are still
too many questions. Andrew will be held accountable and this
story far from over.
Speaker 10 (36:53):
Royal biographer Andrew Lowney says it's likely Andrew and ex
wife Sarah Ferguson wind up behind bars, but he doesn't
believe it will be for sex trafficking. Lowney says the
case against Windsor is quite clear financial impropriety, misconduct in office,
and various public offenses. While Ferguson goes down for unscrupulous
use of charity money. Lowney predicts the divorces we'll flee
(37:17):
the country. Mount Batten likely taking advantage of the UAE's privacy,
much like Spain's former king Juan Carlos.
Speaker 15 (37:24):
She was the reason I came forward, and I know
the reason why so many others have as well. And
so she just walks such a fearless path that I
just wish that she were alive to see this day.
Speaker 2 (37:37):
That's from our friends at CBS as Danielle Binski and
Epstein victim. So where Virginia Jeffrey left off after her
untimely death, other victims have been reignited by her to
move forward, including on people within.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
The US and Andrew. So let me understand this.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Rob Sheeter, joining US PR guru and author of it,
started with a whisper on Amazon right now, and by
the way, it's amazing, Rob Shooter, Andrew and Fergie may
go down on nothing to do with Jeffrey. But without you, afraid,
this would never have happened. So what will they potentially
(38:19):
go down on?
Speaker 1 (38:20):
What crime?
Speaker 13 (38:22):
Financial crimes here?
Speaker 3 (38:23):
Nancy?
Speaker 13 (38:24):
Let's remember al Capone went to prison for tax evasion,
not for murdering people. And so what's happened here is
the Jeffrey Epstein case has pulled the thread into a
royal couple who use their power in the most outrageous way.
We've pulled the thread and now more is going to
be coming out. He was a trade ambassador for years.
They always had a dodgy reputation. Now it looks like
(38:47):
they are outright grifters. This will be easier to prove
because the Monday trail doesn't disappear. They're pulling at this
and people are assuming. People are pretty much confident that
this is going to prove some really serious financial crimes.
Andrew did not have a lot of money. So you think,
(39:08):
as a prince, the son of Queen Elizabeth, he would
have millions and millions.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
He didn't.
Speaker 13 (39:13):
He had barely any money of his own. He didn't
really have a job, so how did he live like this?
A lot of people are saying Jeffrey Epstein paid and
who else? Who else paid? We're about to find.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Did you see that multimillion dollar view that Epstein had?
Speaker 3 (39:30):
That?
Speaker 2 (39:30):
These stinks when you think about some pos abusing her
in that massage room looking out over that beach. They
can all go straight to ATENLEL.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Ryan A.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Pitchford. Is it real? Will we truly see the Epstein files?
Speaker 2 (39:47):
To Eric Fattus joining US, veteran trial lawyer joining US
out of Colorado, founding partner of Varner Fattus, elite legal
and former felony prosecutor. Eric There's a big difference between
releasing congressional files, which are a lot of emails and
included excerpts from Filthy Rich. That's a streaming show. Nobody cares.
(40:09):
It's a streaming movie made about Epstein. No one cares.
Those files are one thing. The DOJ and judicial files
are an entirely different matter and contain judicial documents such
as depositions, filings, motions, subpoenas, affidavits. The DOJ files will
(40:35):
include terabytes of video taken from the Epstein homes, the mansion,
Lalita Island and beyond Palm Beach.
Speaker 1 (40:43):
That's what we need. The DOJ and the judicial files.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Is this real fattest and how long can we be stonewalled?
Speaker 16 (40:53):
Well, Nancy, those DOJ files, they really contained the guts
of this substance of investigation that I think has spanned years,
if not longer, but potentially decades. You know, they're going
to have probably interviews with witnesses, interviews with alleged victims.
They're gonna have photographs, videos. This is really the heart
of the matter, that this is what the public wants
(41:14):
to see. You know, some emails between two people, you know,
vaguely discussing something or other is one thing. But we're
talking about serious investigative materials that function as evidence and
that can give the public a true glipse into what
this investigation held and what it's conclusion.
Speaker 2 (41:32):
For crime stories with Nancy Grace and Eric Fatas, here
is the danger in that The danger is that innocent people.
For instance, Dershowitz, he may represent a lot of dirty
(41:54):
dogs that are totally guilty of the worst crimes imaginable,
But the fact that he flew on a private plane
with Epstein does not implicate him in wrongdoing or Trump.
Whether Trump piled around with Epstein, that does not mean
he did anything wrong. However, it's not just those two.
(42:17):
There are many many other people that met with Epstein
on different matters that are totally innocent.
Speaker 1 (42:23):
They will be, as I say, in the same pot,
distu with the guilty.
Speaker 2 (42:28):
But that's the price of full transparency, correct it is?
Speaker 16 (42:33):
You know, I think there's going to be significant collateral
damage here, like you're referencing Nancy. You know, there are
folks who are going to be caught in the cross
heres who may be engaged in no wrongdoing at all.
There might even be implications or outright accusations from people
that turn out to be false. You know, Jeffrey Epstein
is not the most credible dude. Prince Antrew is not
the most credible dude. And so if they're pointing fingers
(42:55):
at folks, that's.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Certainly putting perfume on the pig, you know.
Speaker 2 (43:02):
I mean, think about it, fattest, how many times have
you been alone with the worst the convicted fell on, that.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Molested children, that committed a crime.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
I remember driving all over Atlanta with a convicted rapist
who had been out of jail for X number of years,
and I needed him to lead me to a cereal
child molester. We drove all over Atlanta, him and me
in the car for hours and hours. Could it look bad? Yeah,
(43:32):
it could look bad. So that's what I'm talking about.
And you've been in the same position, and I don't
want innocent people implicated. But for these crime victims, there
must be a full release of the files. Victoria Churchill
joining US US political reporter Deally mail in a nutshell Victoria,
And it can get really complicated.
Speaker 1 (43:52):
What is the Transparency Act?
Speaker 5 (43:56):
Yes, so the Epstein Files Transparency Act is the bill
that was introduced in Congress bipartisan with Thomas Massey and Rocanna.
It is for the DoD to release their files. Now
that is a congressional bill, But of course the big
question comes into can Congress absolutely mandate the DOJ to
(44:18):
release every single file?
Speaker 6 (44:20):
And then if they.
Speaker 5 (44:21):
Can, the redactions, of course, are the big question. As
you pointed out, the files that have already been released
contain extensive redactions. The Department of Justice will most likely
argue that that is to protect the victims. But if
you've also looked at press conferences, the victims say they
want all of the files released so that people know
(44:42):
the extent of Epstein's crimes.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
For so long, you've been told there is no client list,
and the onus has been put on the crime victims,
some of them just twelve years old at the time
they were molested to come up with that. Will we
finally get the documents necessary to create that client list
what and hand it over to the government to pursue Listen, I.
Speaker 15 (45:04):
Feel a lot of the time that survivors are being
asked to come forward with all of this, and I
just in feeling like, you know, they just need to
do their jobs and find the names.
Speaker 17 (45:16):
I have been threatened considerably. I've been threatened, uh in
phone calls, in packages that have arrived at my house
with unpleasant contents. I do believe that they might be
intended to silence me, certainly to frighten me into perhaps
not coming forward and not being as persistent.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Those are victims of Epstein and others. That was Danielle
Binski and Anuska de Georgious from CBS and BBC. Even
if this is real, it's not a smokescreen, and we
do get the DOJ and judicial documents, There's.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Still another problem. Juline Maxwell.
Speaker 14 (46:02):
Trump's Gawayne Maxwell problem is just as serious as his
Epstein problem. Maxwell's transferred to Club FED just days after
assuring Deputy Attorney General Blanche Trump did not participate in
the abuse, appears to be quite the quid pro quo.
In addition to the low security facilities general privileges, Maxwell
is reportedly demanding VIP treatment that has the warden complaining
(46:26):
she's tired of being Maxwell's bitch.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Maxwell getting custom meals behind bars?
Speaker 1 (46:35):
Who's allowing this?
Speaker 10 (46:37):
Maxwell reportedly receives custom meals in her cell, enjoys private
exercise time and access to service puppies. Warden Hall ordered
to make all requested accommodations for Maxwell, including carrying out
secretarial duties on her behalf, providing snacks for her private
meetings with guests, letting her visitors bring in computers, and
(46:57):
punishing staff members who refuse to cooperate. Haul is also
rumored to be personally assisting Maxwell in preparing a commutation application.
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Sidney Sumner joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter. This looks bad,
and you know what it is bad, Gallaine Max was
a convicted child sex trafficker and she's getting special meals
behind bars. If Trump pardons her, all hell is gonna
break loose.
Speaker 6 (47:28):
Absolutely, this is a huge problem for his administration. On
top of the Epstein files, Gallainne Maxwell's treatment is just
horrifying for victims who went through years of testimony and
depositions and trying to get Maxwell put behind bars, and
now she's getting treated like a VIP star client. It's awful.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
To Lynn Shaw joining us, Gallaine Maxwell's special treatment.
Speaker 11 (47:58):
Yeah, hard to say those words special treatment. We also
hear we don't have proof, but we hear from some sources.
She's also picked up once or twice a week in
a big black suv and disappears for a few hours. Now,
if this isn't a slap in the face of all victims,
not only of this crime duo, but of all sex trafficking,
sexually exploited women, even men, boys, girls. What's going on here?
(48:22):
Why aren't more people out screaming about this one? The
proof's in the pudding.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Barry Levine joining us, author of The Spider inside the
Tangled Web of Jeffrey Epstein and Galline Maxwell, veteran investigative.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Reporter and editor.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Barry, I'm actually afraid to get my hopes up. We've
discussed the problems of the innocent being thrown in the
pot with the guilty on this. We've discussed the reactions,
We've discussed the possibility that this.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Is a smoke screen.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Again, if the government was intent on getting the guys
that TuS did these, then girls, all they have to
do is read your book.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
Explain it's not rocket size.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
You've laid it all out, particularly the financial trail.
Speaker 4 (49:16):
That's absolutely correct, Nancy, and in fact Senator Ron Wyden,
who went down the financial road, identified more than one
billion dollars in dubious and suspicious wire transfers that Jeffrey
Epstein sent through Russian banks, through American banks, to enablers,
to men who were helping him over two decades to
(49:41):
bring little girls from foreign countries, putting them on planes,
dressing them up in college sweatshirts so they would look older,
to bring these girls to islands. There's a money trail,
more than one billion dollars in money that Jeffrey Epstein
sent out to conduct his sex trafficking. And it's all there, it's.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
All in the financial records.
Speaker 4 (50:05):
And why hasn't the Justice Department continued to look into this?
Why are we getting these whistleblowers who are only now
coming forward. You know, it is so upsetting to me
and on behalf of the victims that we're not seeing justice,
as I said earlier. Representative Tom Massey said that there's
(50:26):
twenty men on his list who received sex trafficking from
Jeffrey Epstein. Six billionaires, one of them from Canada, people
in the government, people from the music industry, a royal
who we know is Prince Andrew, even though he's denied
any wrongdoing. We need to see the files, We need
(50:48):
to see what the FBI did over the years to
investigate these men.
Speaker 2 (50:53):
Finally, justice for Epstein's victims or another smoke screen to
doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renowned psychoanalyst, Doctor Bethany, your
advice to the crime victims as we wait to find
out the answer to that question, justice or smokescreen?
Speaker 12 (51:15):
Well, I would say to the victims there are no innocence.
I disagree with everybody on this panel. I think anybody
who was on the plane the Lalita Express had to
have seen something. You can't be on an island with
twelve year olds dressed up like college kids and think
that nothing is amiss. The offending pattern, I would say
to the victims. As I said earlier, the offending pattern
(51:36):
is going on. Rich powerful people are using Gillan Maxwell
are using withholding documents to maintain their power, privilege and
their dark secrecy. But don't you worry, victims, because there
are disruptors in society, positive disruptors like Nancy, the people
(51:57):
on this panel, people who care about you, who want
to protect you. And I do believe that those disruptors
will win out at the beat at the end.
Speaker 3 (52:04):
Of the day.
Speaker 12 (52:05):
And you, dear victim, are a disruptor too. You are
standing up for victims who will come after you. You're
playing a very important role. And whenever you think you
cannot trust somebody, a partner, a child, a parent, think
about the people who are coming forward and also speaking
on your behalf, and think about those people so that
you can stabilize your attachment systems and have a really
(52:28):
good life, which is what you deserve.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Tonight we remember an American hero, Corporal Blake Reynolds, Delaware
County Sheriff's Indiana, killed in the line of duty, leaving
behind a graving wife, now widow Allison. American hero Corporal
Blake middles Nancy Gray signing off, Goodbye f
Host
Nancy Grace
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