March 5, 2019 • 40 mins
Convicted pedophile Gary Oliva is claiming he killed JonBenet Ramsey, the six-year-old girl whose murder is Boulder, Colorado, was one of the biggest crime stories of the last two decades. Nancy Grace looks at the claim and the evidence with Colorado private investigator Bobby Brown, Los Angeles defense lawyer Troy Slaten, Cold Case Research Institute director Sheryl McCollum, South Carolina medical examiner Dr. Michelle Dupre -- author of "Homicide Investigation Field Guide," Crime Stories reporter Robyn Walensky -- author of "Beautiful Life?: The CSI Behind the Casey Anthony Trial & My Observations."
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(01:10):
are kidnap all right? Please plain to me what's going on?
Are you? Oh? My god? Please, I'm okay, the show,
We're okay. Do you know how long she'd think? I
don't please? We just got up and here, Oh my god. Please.
Twenty two years after the little pageant princess was found
(01:31):
strangled to death in her parents' basement, the murder of
John Bennet Ramsey remains one of America's greatest unsolved mysteries.
But now we're learning yet another man claims that he
committed the gruesome crime. In a series of letters exclusively
obtained by Daily Mail TV, convicted pedophile Gary Oliva says
he killed the six year old andis this terrifying phone call?
(01:55):
He's screaming, I heard a little girl. It was shocked.
It was pure shock. Michael Vale recalls the early morning
phone call he received from his former high school pal
Gary Oliva. It was December twenty six, nineteen ninety six.
At the time, Oliva lived blocks from the Ramsey home
in Boulder, Colorado. That was the same day Patsy Ramsey
(02:20):
would make her own frantic call to nine one one,
notifying authorities that her precious little girl was missing. About
eight hours later, John Bennet's body was discovered inside a
locked room in the basement at six years old, John
(02:43):
Bennet had already become a padget princess, and the quest
of finder killer garnered international attention to the killer has
been our position now two decades later, Vale says he
has a series of disturbing letters from convicted pedophial Gary
Oliva that he believes may solve the mystery of John
(03:03):
Benay's death once and for all. That was our friend
Jesse Palmer at Daily Mail reporting it. In the background,
you could hear John Benay singing, and snippets of her
mother or Patsy Ramsey's desperate nine one one call or
was it? Questions still lingering as to who killed the
(03:24):
pageant princess, the beautiful little girl, John Benet. But it's
all hit the headlines again when a convicted pedophile already
behind bars, Gary Oliva, said I did it. But do
I believe him? With me right now? An all star panel.
Troy Slayton, renowned LA defense lawyer, director of the Cold
(03:46):
Case Research Institute and no stranger to a crime Saint.
Cheryl McCollum, Bobby Brown, Colorado private investigator, intimately familiar with
this case, medical AMiner and author of homicide investigation field guide.
We're very fortunate to have doctor Michelle Duprie with us
(04:07):
today and joining me right now. Crime online investigative reporter,
author of Beautiful Life, The CSI behind Casey Anthony Trial.
Robin Wilansky. Robin, who is Gary Oliva? And why now
does he jump up and say, oh, yeah, I killed
(04:28):
John Benet Nancy. Gary Oliva was a guy who lived
in the area and police had been looking at him.
He was a guy who was obsessed with little John
Benet and how beautiful she was and in her little
outfits with her teased hair. I mean, this was a
four or five year old girl who looked like, hey, hey, hey, hey,
(04:50):
hey hey, what's from a fluffy outfits and teased hair. Well,
apparently he was very into her look and she really
looked like an adult. And I think that that's why
we've been talking about this case for so many years.
When those little videos came out of her and her
little pageant costumes, she looked so mature. Well, anyway, this
(05:11):
guy had hundreds of pictures of her, hundreds of pictures
of her, you know what, as weird as it may be, weird,
but true to Bobby Brown, Colorado private investigator. They're sadly
are probably thousands of creepy, lonely guys across the country
(05:34):
that have hundreds of pictures of John bin A Ramsey.
I'm sorry to have to report that, but he's I mean,
you know, they're a dime a dozen pedophiles with obsessions
on particular little girls, I mean, and John benay Is
turned out to be fodder for pedophiles all across the country.
(05:56):
How many millions of times do you think Bobby Brown
videos of her dancing and singing at the pageants completely
innocently have been exchanged. That's their stock in trade. That's
what they live for us to get another video of
a little girl. That's that's totally true. And it's been
shown a god doing those tens and tens of thousands
(06:19):
of times. You asked, who believes I believe that? Uh
that you know, and and and when we started, it's
like it almost sounded like that Gary e'll leevis just
now had this idea, Well, I'm going to confess to
John Benett. He has confessed two three different times over
(06:43):
the years, and uh, he actually became a suspect. I
was working at that time. I was working on a
private team with Lusement, Charlie he Peas and I and
(07:05):
one morning Luke Smith asked me to meet with him
at a restaurant that we always met at. I did
was in September of two thousand and seven, and at
that time lou explained to me, this is when the
name Gary Oliva became, you know, part of my Spark
(07:28):
money answers with me as a very well known Colorado
private investigator, Bobby Brown, very familiar with the John Banay investigation.
So if this guy Gary Oliva raises his hand and
said I killed John Benay, he might as well get
in line. Listen. I've contact to the Ramsey family, but
(07:51):
especially before Patricia passed away, and I can paid to
her many things, among them that I am so very
sorry for what happened to Jean Manet. And it's very
important for me that everyone knows that I love for
(08:11):
very much and that her death was unintentional and it
was an accident. And um I made several efforts to
communicate with Patricia before she passed away, and I my
understanding that that she did read my letters and she
was aware of me before she passed away. What happened
(08:31):
in the basement. Um, that's it would take several hours
to describe it, to describe that if you could be brief. Uh,
there's no way that I could be brief about There's
no way I can remember about it. But it's it's
it's a very involved um series of apens would require
(08:57):
a lot of time, and I, uh, I can't. I
wouldn't want to to say something briefly about it because
if you would not. First of all, it's very painful
for me to talk about the only thing that I
can say is, it's not what it seems to be everyway.
(09:19):
It's not people, not at all what it seems an
absolutely not. Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute.
You've been on every kind of crime scene known to man.
In fact, you claim that's where we first met. I
claim we met in court. But okay, I guess two
honest people can disagree. So Cheryl McCollum, please did you
(09:42):
hear him say, oh, this can't be quick, because my
story of how I accidentally killed John Benny Ramsey needs
a lot of time, translation, a lot of attention on
me in front of the microphone, in front of the camera,
with everybody clicking their their photos. What a load of BS? Now, Cheryl,
(10:04):
you are a crime scene investigator. Extraordinary, Now that's a legal, technical,
legal term, load of b asked or I need to
explain that to you. Let me tell you it ain't Latin. No,
it is a load of BS. And I'll tell you
I'm going to explain why it's a load of BS.
I have been on thousands of crime scenes and anthy
and when something is an accident, that scene can absolutely
(10:28):
be staged. But I have not seen where a stranger
makes an accident looks worse. So here's what he wants
us to believe. Johnny slipped and hit her head and died.
So he doesn't admit to killing her. He said she flipped.
He doesn't talk about the strangulation. He doesn't talk about
(10:51):
the sexual assault. He doesn't talk about whether or not
there was a taser involved with this child. He doesn't
talk about anything but an accident. It was an accident
breaking into the house. It wasn't an accident, you know,
taking her from her bedroom on the third floor and
finding a lost room in a basement and a house
she's supposedly never been in. How in the world did
(11:15):
this man write a three page ransom note? Asked her.
She accidentally dies, so he ain't hurry to get out
of that house, which is also croup, but he stays
there and writes this ransom note. And he just happens
to be ether to write exactly like her mama, to
the point that FBI can't rule the mama out, which
(11:36):
is another reason I do not believe Gary Oliva, and
I didn't believe John Mark Carr, also known as Captain
Underpants at the time. I can't recall why, but I
think both of them are lying and capitalizing on the
death of a little girl. John Vane completely changed me
and removed all evil from me. Just one look at
(11:57):
her beautiful face, her glowing, beautiful skin, and her divine
God body. I lit her slip and her head bashed
in half, and I watched her die. It was an accident.
I believe in my heart of hearts that these are
confessional letters. He told me that if he had the chance,
he would have eaten John Benet Oliva also made these
chilling drawings of the kindergartener. The fifty four year old
(12:19):
has a history of sexually abusing miners. He's currently serving
a ten year sentence in Colorado for possessing child pornography.
Oliva isn't the first to confess to killing little John Bennet.
In two thousand and six, John Mark Carr confessed to
her murder Die accidentally, Carr, who was cleared of all charges.
(12:42):
As for Oliva, although he has confessed to the crime,
investigators are not convinced he did it. Oliva is eligible
for parole in twenty twenty, but Vale, a writer and
publicist who lives in California, says his former friend needs
to stay behind bars. The day he walks free is
the day that I will be terrified for every child
(13:02):
within hundreds of miles of him, because he is not
safe to be out of society. The police department in Boulder,
Colorado has come under heavy criticism for not bringing John
Benet's killer to justice, even admitting that crime scene evidence
may have been mishandled. You're hearing our friend Jesse Palmer
at Delhi Mail TV and part of this guy, Gary
(13:25):
Oliva's letter being read about this little girl's god body
and her beauty and her purity, later saying he wanted
to eat her. Okay, twenty twenty, well, that's certainly a
year we can all look forward to the year that
this guy will make parole. Troice Layton joining me along
with Cheryl McCollum, Bobby Brown, doctor Michelle Dupree, and Robin Willinsky. Troy,
(13:47):
you're the famous LA defense attorney. Why with this guy,
Gary Eliva festering behind bars make this confession because he
won attention, Because just like the other people who have
confessed to this crime but proved to not be the murderer,
(14:09):
done it for exactly what you said, they want, they're
five minutes of fame. Now, thank goodness, there's an illegal
principle just because someone confesses to a crime doesn't allow
them to be prosecuted unless there's other evidence that they
committed the crime. And thank goodness for that rule. You're right,
(14:32):
Troice Layton, You're absolutely right. The law is throughout every jurisdiction,
and this has been taken all the way to the
US Supreme Court, and that is why it's a uniform
and every jurisdiction. You know, violent crimes are usually prosecuted
by the states, and we've got fifty of them. You'd
think there'd be fifty different sets of rules. There are
not they may differ in some ways, but many state opinions, decisions,
(14:59):
and criminal cod have been taken all the way to
the US Supreme Court. The Supremes make a decision and
then all the other states fall into line with that.
Now he's right, Royce Layton is right. You cannot prosecute
someone based on their confession alone. There has to be
corroborating evidence, Thank the Lord. So, Robin Willinski, let me
(15:25):
ask you this, what do we know about the physical
evidence opposing or supporting this freak Gary Oliva's confession he
killed John Benet? Well, Nancy, there is not a DNA link.
From what I understand, there was DNA in John Benet's
underwear to this day that has never been identified. Every year,
(15:48):
to my understanding, the FBI crime lab in Virginia runs
that sample over and over and over again more than
twenty years to this day. Nancy ever has been identified.
And it's interesting, and you know this because you have kids.
If you go to a store or a Target of
Walmart wherever, and you go to buy underwear that's just
(16:11):
hanging on a little hanger, that's not in a plastic wrap,
and someone if she had on, for example, new underpants,
and someone would have touched that in a store, or
the lady who man or someone who's checking you out
at the counter touches that. They still don't know where
that DNA is. And Gary Oliva does not match that
DNA sample. Well, I mean, Cheryl Wia call them. You
(16:32):
and I both are raising a boy and a girl.
A million times. I've been the one the mom and
I hate that mom sitting in the floor of Target
or wherever, and I take the underwear out of the pack.
I know it's also neatly package, and I take it out.
I try not to destroy the package, and I hold
(16:52):
it up and to Lucy's shot in horror, I hold
it up to her as she's standing there in her clothes,
going mom to see, okay, is this gonna fit her?
So I've handled it. You know, I may have on lotion,
I may have just washed my hands. Whatever the minute
amount of DNA on John Benet's underwear, What if anything
(17:15):
does that mean? Except one thing, we know it's not
Gary Oliva's. What else do we know about that also
doesn't match anybody in her family. So again, it could
very well come from the person that was examining the
underwear before it left the factory. Somebody could have sneezed,
They could have been sweating, who knows, We don't know.
That's the whole point. But it doesn't match this guy
(17:36):
and the other thing that falls short with his story, Nancy.
He wants us to believe that he stopped and fed
the child pineapple. He wants us to believe that he's
spent all this time looking for a legal pad and
looking for a pen and writing his three page ransom
note and just walking all over the house instead of
getting the hell out of there because he just killed
the child. None of this makes sense. He just happened
(17:59):
to know John's bonus of one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars.
He just happened to know about this lost room. None
of this makes any sense. And here's the biggest thing
for me. In the autopsy, they are very clear to
point out that John Banet had chronic vaginal injuries that
to me does not suggest a stranger at all. But
(18:21):
does it suggest And again let me point out that
the brother, who I have never once suspected based on
statistics alone, but especially looking at him compared to John Banat,
I think she could crack him in two with one
hand behind her back. The brother has actually sued when
it was suggested he was guilty, and you know, if
(18:43):
doing that it would have basically allowed him to be
put on the stand, and he was not afraid of that.
So I've never believed Burke did it, and I don't
believe the dad did it because John Benet, to my understanding,
still had a hymen means an adult male had never
had relations with her. Gary Eliva now confessing I did it,
(19:08):
is the case now solved in the murder of John Benet,
or is it simply more murky? I and Nancy Grace here,
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a crush. Fifty seven percent of Americans admit to keeping
(19:30):
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But Google and Facebook the tip of the iceberg when
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(19:52):
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(20:15):
Go to truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy right away
to start searching truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy truthfinder
dot com forward slash Nancy. Find the truth crime stories
(20:35):
with Nancy Grace. Boulder Police say Gary Olivia is still
a suspect and the John Vannie Ramsey murderer. He has
not been cleared, but is well known to officers and
city leaders. Tell me if new information comes to light
through his most recent arrest, they will certainly look into it.
(20:56):
Nearly two decades after John Vaney Ramsey was killed Insider
Families Boulder Home, a suspect and the infamous Christmas Night
murder is behind bars, accused of downloading child pornography. We
haven't ruled him in or out in connection with the
Ramsey case. Boulder Police, the same agency investigating the Ramsey case,
arrested fifty two year old Gary Oliva after getting a
cyber tip that looked like somebody was getting in pornography
(21:18):
materials related to children to an address the investigators were
able to link to mister Oliva. Court documents show he
downloaded twenty two separate sexually explicit images. All of the
photos showed children under ten years of age, who certainly
understand the interests in mister Oliva, both in connection with
the new charges and his possible connection in the past.
Oliva wasn't one of the early suspects in the Ramsey case,
(21:40):
but the convicted sex offender may have been close to
the Ramsey home on the night of the murder and
when he was arrested on other charges back in two thousand,
police found a photo of Ramsey in his possession and
he did admit to having an obsession with a young
beauty queen. Feel like we ought to look at all
people as being possible suspects that have been possible suspects before.
For now, Boulder Police say it's focused on the most
(22:00):
recent charges, but that could change if additional information about
him becomes available subsequent to his arrest. In this case,
we'll certainly look at it now. Eliva is charged with
three felonies for sexual exploitation of a child. You are
hearing our friend at ABC seven. They're in Denver. That's
Jennifer Kovaleski talking about the twenty sixteen arrest of Gary
(22:22):
Eliva on child porn. Now he jumps up and says,
I kill John Banet. But Bobby Brown, Colorado Private Investigator
is correct, he said it before. But you know what,
as I always love to say in court when the
defense jumps up and over and ever, I'm like, you
can say that, oh all you want to. You can
say a hundred times, two hundred times, a thousand times.
(22:42):
It doesn't make it true. Just because he keeps saying
I did it, I did it doesn't make it true.
Joining me right now, renown medical examiner and author of
Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Now there's some good reading right there,
Homicide Investigation Field Guide. You know, Jackie and Allan, Jackie
Howard and Allen Duke always roll their four eyeballs when
(23:06):
I talk about one of my favorite books ever, Method
and Assessment of Homicide and Suicide. I mean, I can't
tell you how many times I read that. And of
course the Gun Lover's Bible, so I would familiarize myself
with ballistics. So you know, Homicide Investigation Field Guide I'm
very impressed, doctor Michel Dupree, But that's not my issue today.
(23:28):
My issue is Gary Oliva, because a lot of people
want to believe, yes, he did it and put the
case to bed. But I don't take it very lightly
when somebody makes a false confession, because you know what
that does. That ruins a potential future prosecution of the
real killer because as giving no offense choice Layton slimy
(23:53):
defense attorneys a defense on a silver platter, say I
catch the real killer. And then here comes TROYE Slate
bouncing into court and his two thousand dollars Armani suit
and his fancy Italian loafers. He comes up and he goes,
oh really, because John Mark Carr said he did it
and Gary Olivia said he did it, it doesn't help,
(24:16):
doctor Michelle Dupree. It doesn't help at all when some
nut job like Oliva claims he did it, and hey,
what if he did? So, Michelle Dupree, Doctor Dupree, how
do I prove he did or didn't do it based
on the crime scene in the DNA fancy? That's an
excellent question. We go with a physical evidence, I mean,
(24:37):
physical evidence does not lie, and your guests are far
have mentioned many instances and where it just doesn't add up.
The DNA doesn't match, there's no other physical evidence at
the crime scene to make a confession. We all know
that some people just want the spotlight, and so that's
where we'd have to go on the defense of this.
Go with the physical evidence and you will never go wrong.
(24:57):
You know what. I used to argue something like that
to juries all the time, not as eloquently as you
just did. And you didn't even train three years to
speak in front of a jury. Very well. Put, you
have to follow the hard forensics if you've got it,
And here, Cheryl McCollum, we have a glaring lack of
(25:18):
forensics pointing to Oliva. Cheryl McCollum, if you had one
minute in front of the jury, what would you say
to sum up the fact did Gary Oliva murder little
beauty Queen John Benet. He has not given us one
thing about that crime scene we didn't already know or
(25:40):
we didn't publish. He's a liar and he's out for attention, period.
What about forensic Cheryl, There is no zero that leads
to him. There's no DNA, he's got no clothing with
her blood on it. He's got no hair from her, nothing,
nothing leads us to him. And Anthia is another thing.
No blame, get it. The whole surrounding of that house,
(26:02):
the whole perimeter. There's no footprints coming or going from
that house. What did he do? H a bag out
of there? Come on, he didn't do it. He does
it right like her mama. He didn't spend hours in
that house after he quote accidentally killed her and found
a paint brush and a piece of rope and did
(26:23):
a makeshift you know, way to strangle that base rite. Yeah. So,
Troy Slayton, you're the renowned defense attorney. If you were
defending a future defendant, what would you say? Because I
know you can spin a yarn. No offense, Troy, and
I'm sure an untaken But what would you what would
(26:44):
you say? It sounds like to say he can do it.
If you say you're you aren't defending Jackie Howard five
years from now, who's now charged with murdering John Benett.
How would you try and pin this on a leva?
Why would certainly point to his confession? I would say,
let's believe a person when they make a statement against
(27:07):
penal interest. Here's another legal theory for the audience. When
somebody says something that goes so far against what an
average person would do and tends to inculpate themselves, tends
to make themselves look guilty, that type of statement is
more trustworthy here. A normal person doesn't commit I mean,
(27:29):
doesn't admit to committing a crime that they didn't do.
A normal person doesn't. Obviously Oliva's is not a normal person.
And if I was called upon to defend Oliva's in
some sort of future prosecution, well you have my witness
list already all set for me too. Bobby Brown, who
is a veteran in law enforcement Colorado private investigator, Bobby Brown, again,
(27:53):
thank you for being with us. You've heard Cheryl McCollum
explying why she doesn't think Oliva is response or committed
the crime, but you disagree. Explain. I want everybody to
know that I am not saying by any means that
Gary Oliva is, even though he confessed again that he
(28:16):
is the person that is responsible for the death of
John Benet. But I just wanted to say a couple
of things. Is that after John Benet's death, Gary Olivia
did leave the state and where he sexually molested a
seven year old little girl. And he was in Boulder
(28:41):
the night that John Benet was killed. He was supposedly
staying at a church near by their house, and the
next morning he called his friend. He tells his friend
that he had done something really bad that a little girl.
(29:02):
One thing that I will say that when I called
up when he was arrested in two thousand and sixteen
with the pornography charges I did, I got all of
the bonding information, which I have printed out right in
front of me, and it clearly says that he was
arrested on April tenth. However, he was booked into the
(29:24):
Boulder County Jail on June seventeenth, and he had a
bond set for twenty five thousand dollars. When I asked
the jail where was he between April tenth and June seventeenth,
and the exact quote from the deputy or person that
(29:45):
I spoke to the jail said that it was the
sixty four thousand dollars question of the day. The world
was shocked to hear about the motive of the six
year old beauty pageant princess jumping a Ramsey. Since this
horrible day, her death has remained as one of the
biggest mysteries of all time, which has set in motion
at many conspiracy theories, some crazy but others more grounded
in reality. Today, Lauren Forces are on the brig of
(30:09):
closing the case after Gary Oliver, a fifty four year
old convicted pedophile who is currently serving time in prison,
confessed to her murder. The Daily Mail obtained letters written
by Gary Oliver. The report claimed the fifty four year
old is taking full responsibility for the crime, saying he
killed her by accident. I never loved anyone like it
did John Bernee, and yet I let her slipped, her
(30:29):
head bashed and I watched her die. He allegedly wrote,
it was an accident. Please believe me. She was not
like other kids. John Bernee completely changed me and removed
all evil from me. Oliver stated, just one look at
her beautiful face, her beautiful skin and divine God body.
I realized I was wrong to kill other kids. Yet
(30:50):
by accident she died and it was my fault. The
sensational letters was sent to the music publicist to Michael Vale,
a former mate of Oliver's who has quartedly suspected his
involvement in the crime for many years. The shock admission
is one of the biggest breakthroughs in the now infamous case,
which has had detective stumped for years. My suspicion began
(31:11):
when Gary called me late one night on December twenty six,
nineteen sixty six. He was sobbing and said, I heard
a little girl. The fifty five year old told the publication,
you're hearing our friends at Daily Mail regarding Gary Oliva
announcing he murdered John Benet. I don't know that I
would call his confession a breakthrough. I think I call
it more of a speedbop. To Bobby Brown, Colorado private investigator,
(31:34):
how did you first learn about Eliva? At the breakfast
meeting that Lou Smith and I had? And Lou Smith
was the one that brought up that there was a suspect,
Gary Oliva, and Lou was very serious about it. I was,
and obviously that's how I I put a lot of
work to this. And I want to say that, you know,
(31:55):
when people ask real quick, why would anybody confess to this?
You know, why would you leave? But consessted this, and
you know that's a great question, because somebody that's been
around with this for a long time. The sex offenders
and especially pedophiles, they don't do really well in prison.
So you know, if you're in prison and all of
a sudden you're you're saying, here's this gigantic case that's
(32:18):
been out there for all these decades, and then you're
saying that you are the one that did it, you know,
that's not a very smart move by any meaning. Well,
it could be. To Robin Willinski, Crime Online dot Com
investigative reporter and author of Beautiful Life See Aside behind
Casey Anthony Trial on Amazon, Robin, you've studied this very
very carefully. We all covered at John Manai's death and
(32:41):
the investigation intensely at the time. What do you make
of it? What about his confession is consistent or inconsistent
with the facts, the forensic facts as we know them. Well,
I'll tell you an aunty. I was actually out there
in another lifetime in two thousand and six working for
another network when they bought brought John Mark Carr back
to the United States, And I will tell you that
(33:02):
I knew of Aliva, but I do not believe that
the DNA there's no DNA that puts him inside that house.
For me personally, my big takeaway after all these years,
the only thing that connects John Mark Carr, the other
guy who said that he killed John Beday, the only
thing in my mind that connects him to the case.
You know, there's no receipts, there's no DNA. That ransom
(33:23):
note that Patsy finds on the bottom of the staircase
is signed s b TC, and no one has ever
been able to explain what those letters stand for. Well,
in my old job at a different network, we had
a producer that was sniffing around in this little town
in Alabama where John Mark Carr is from. And in
(33:44):
one of his yearbooks he signs it SBTC shall be
the Conqueror. And to me, that's an interesting takeaway to
this case. Also, there was a window in the basement
that there's some glass that was pushed in. The only
person skinny enough, physically small enough to have gotten into
(34:05):
that window from the outside is not Aliva. He's a
much bigger guy. The only person who would fit through
that window would be someone like John Mark Carr, who
is that sick you know, Roby Mallinski. When I would
try cases. In closing argument, I carried with me a
huge jar of water, and at the bottom, Cheryl, don't grown,
because you remember this, there was dirt at the bottom.
(34:29):
And at the beginning of my closing statement. Sometimes, if
it fit, i would take the big jar and I'd
shake it in front of the jury to make sure
they saw me do it. I'd set it down on
council table and then I'd start my closing argument, which
would at the least take one hour. By the time
(34:50):
the hour was up, I would pick up the jar,
which now all the soil was at the bottom, and
I'd hold it up and say that defense is trying
to muddy the water. I've explained to you the facts
and see now is crystal clear you are muddying the water.
(35:11):
Robin Wilinsky, I'm just gonna tell you right now because
and you have me. You're like a little snake charmer.
Oh SBTC and he could fit through the window. I'm
calling b yes again, Troy S Laton, LA defense lawyer.
Isn't it true John Mark Carr was in another state
when John Benet was killed. That's when all the evidence
(35:32):
shows and it's it's unbelievable to why can't you just
say yes like a normal person. Why why do you
have to leave a little doubtling? Really well, that's what
the evidence shows, as if to say, bet Man I wasn't.
Maybe he was with Harry Potter. Maybe he was with
Harry Potter and they transported what's the word they use
in Harry Potter. I've got I've read them so many times,
(35:54):
and they appeared in John Manay's basement. He wasn't out
of the state. Troy Slayton, he may have been out
of the state. That's what the evidence appears to show, Nancy,
But I wasn't with them. You weren't with them, so
we can't say for sure. And it's this exact type
of confession from Oliva that is, as you've said, a
(36:19):
goldmine for the defense in any future prosecution of this
horrific tragedy. To doctor Michelle Duprey, medical examiner and author
Homicide Investigation Field Guide, do you see anything on the
scene of the murder that indicates Oliva is the killer? Nancy,
not that I can tell. I mean, there is no
physical evidence, and that's always what we have to go for.
(36:40):
Everything that your other guest have said is absolutely true.
There's no way to tie him to this. We depend
on something called low cards exchange, where a perpetrator comes in,
brings something from outside into the crime scene and then
take something away from the crime scene outside. We don't
have that here too, Cheryl McCollum, Cold Case Research Institute Director,
CSI expert. Cheryl, you know, give me your best shot
(37:04):
as to why he did do it. I know that's
gonna be tough. Zero there's nothing, and I'm gonna blow
your mind. Cadn't you just use your imagination for Pete's sake?
Defense attorneys to do it all the time. I do,
And in order to do that, I would have to
make something up, which is exactly what he's done it.
But I'm going to blow your mind. He didn't even confess,
he said, John Beney slipt and she hit her head.
(37:28):
We don't even have a confessience. He's a liar, is
that true? Bobby Brown Colorado a PI Is there nowhere
he says I did it? Not from ideal and there
is one to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case
Research Institute. I know you couldn't stretch your imagination to
(37:51):
come up with an argument that Eliva's guilty. But if
you were arguing to the jury right now, why would
you say he's not guilty of John Benet's murder. His
handwriting does not match the ransom note. He writes an
all caps the ransom note does not in the ransom note.
It says things like at ashe and she's gonna be beheaded,
(38:13):
and all of these things. His confessions, it's not it's
not a confession number one and number two. He doesn't
say what he hit her in the head with. It
doesn't say you know why he did it. He doesn't
say he's molested her or anything. He doesn't say how
he got in her out of the house. He doesn't
say how he knew where the locked bedroom was or
(38:35):
the room. He doesn't say where the pineapple came from,
or why he took time to feed this child. He
doesn't say where he found a legal pad or the inkpen,
or why he would go from the third floors to
the basement, and spends all of this time in this
house writing a three page note looking for these instruments
to do that, all the while there's a dead six
(38:56):
year on the basement that he didn't mean to really
kill in the first place. None, none of it makes
any sense. And Nancy, he's a liar, and he's an opportunist.
And he and his you know, elementary school friend. Maybe
they want to write a book. I don't know what
they're doing. But it's not true. There's nothing authentic. Again,
he has not told us one thing that is not
(39:18):
public knowledge about that thing. Explain whether or not she
was paved. Tell me, tell me what the marks are
on her neck, Tell me how the scratch has got
on her back. Tell me why the paintbrush. Why you
would make this really crude garrett to strangle her with?
And why do you keep talking about the head in dream?
You don't mention his trangulation at all. Just patiki eye. There.
(39:40):
We know she was strangled. That's the official rule. Explain
it to me. Why would you make a little drawing
in the palm of her hand? Why would you go
back up the stairs and get her favorite toy? He
can't explain any of that because he didn't do it.
I think that says it all, Kama says. Tells me
Gary Olivia is just seeking attention, a book deal, a
movie deal, or who knows what, maybe even protective custody.
(40:04):
We'll see Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off goodbye friend,
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Quell radio dot com. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. We
(01:10):
are kidnap all right? Please plain to me what's going on?
Are you? Oh? My god? Please, I'm okay, the show,
We're okay. Do you know how long she'd think? I
don't please? We just got up and here, Oh my god. Please.
Twenty two years after the little pageant princess was found
(01:31):
strangled to death in her parents' basement, the murder of
John Bennet Ramsey remains one of America's greatest unsolved mysteries.
But now we're learning yet another man claims that he
committed the gruesome crime. In a series of letters exclusively
obtained by Daily Mail TV, convicted pedophile Gary Oliva says
he killed the six year old andis this terrifying phone call?
(01:55):
He's screaming, I heard a little girl. It was shocked.
It was pure shock. Michael Vale recalls the early morning
phone call he received from his former high school pal
Gary Oliva. It was December twenty six, nineteen ninety six.
At the time, Oliva lived blocks from the Ramsey home
in Boulder, Colorado. That was the same day Patsy Ramsey
(02:20):
would make her own frantic call to nine one one,
notifying authorities that her precious little girl was missing. About
eight hours later, John Bennet's body was discovered inside a
locked room in the basement at six years old, John
(02:43):
Bennet had already become a padget princess, and the quest
of finder killer garnered international attention to the killer has
been our position now two decades later, Vale says he
has a series of disturbing letters from convicted pedophial Gary
Oliva that he believes may solve the mystery of John
(03:03):
Benay's death once and for all. That was our friend
Jesse Palmer at Daily Mail reporting it. In the background,
you could hear John Benay singing, and snippets of her
mother or Patsy Ramsey's desperate nine one one call or
was it? Questions still lingering as to who killed the
(03:24):
pageant princess, the beautiful little girl, John Benet. But it's
all hit the headlines again when a convicted pedophile already
behind bars, Gary Oliva, said I did it. But do
I believe him? With me right now? An all star panel.
Troy Slayton, renowned LA defense lawyer, director of the Cold
(03:46):
Case Research Institute and no stranger to a crime Saint.
Cheryl McCollum, Bobby Brown, Colorado private investigator, intimately familiar with
this case, medical AMiner and author of homicide investigation field guide.
We're very fortunate to have doctor Michelle Duprie with us
(04:07):
today and joining me right now. Crime online investigative reporter,
author of Beautiful Life, The CSI behind Casey Anthony Trial.
Robin Wilansky. Robin, who is Gary Oliva? And why now
does he jump up and say, oh, yeah, I killed
(04:28):
John Benet Nancy. Gary Oliva was a guy who lived
in the area and police had been looking at him.
He was a guy who was obsessed with little John
Benet and how beautiful she was and in her little
outfits with her teased hair. I mean, this was a
four or five year old girl who looked like, hey, hey, hey, hey,
(04:50):
hey hey, what's from a fluffy outfits and teased hair. Well,
apparently he was very into her look and she really
looked like an adult. And I think that that's why
we've been talking about this case for so many years.
When those little videos came out of her and her
little pageant costumes, she looked so mature. Well, anyway, this
(05:11):
guy had hundreds of pictures of her, hundreds of pictures
of her, you know what, as weird as it may be, weird,
but true to Bobby Brown, Colorado private investigator. They're sadly
are probably thousands of creepy, lonely guys across the country
(05:34):
that have hundreds of pictures of John bin A Ramsey.
I'm sorry to have to report that, but he's I mean,
you know, they're a dime a dozen pedophiles with obsessions
on particular little girls, I mean, and John benay Is
turned out to be fodder for pedophiles all across the country.
(05:56):
How many millions of times do you think Bobby Brown
videos of her dancing and singing at the pageants completely
innocently have been exchanged. That's their stock in trade. That's
what they live for us to get another video of
a little girl. That's that's totally true. And it's been
shown a god doing those tens and tens of thousands
(06:19):
of times. You asked, who believes I believe that? Uh
that you know, and and and when we started, it's
like it almost sounded like that Gary e'll leevis just
now had this idea, Well, I'm going to confess to
John Benett. He has confessed two three different times over
(06:43):
the years, and uh, he actually became a suspect. I
was working at that time. I was working on a
private team with Lusement, Charlie he Peas and I and
(07:05):
one morning Luke Smith asked me to meet with him
at a restaurant that we always met at. I did
was in September of two thousand and seven, and at
that time lou explained to me, this is when the
name Gary Oliva became, you know, part of my Spark
(07:28):
money answers with me as a very well known Colorado
private investigator, Bobby Brown, very familiar with the John Banay investigation.
So if this guy Gary Oliva raises his hand and
said I killed John Benay, he might as well get
in line. Listen. I've contact to the Ramsey family, but
(07:51):
especially before Patricia passed away, and I can paid to
her many things, among them that I am so very
sorry for what happened to Jean Manet. And it's very
important for me that everyone knows that I love for
(08:11):
very much and that her death was unintentional and it
was an accident. And um I made several efforts to
communicate with Patricia before she passed away, and I my
understanding that that she did read my letters and she
was aware of me before she passed away. What happened
(08:31):
in the basement. Um, that's it would take several hours
to describe it, to describe that if you could be brief. Uh,
there's no way that I could be brief about There's
no way I can remember about it. But it's it's
it's a very involved um series of apens would require
(08:57):
a lot of time, and I, uh, I can't. I
wouldn't want to to say something briefly about it because
if you would not. First of all, it's very painful
for me to talk about the only thing that I
can say is, it's not what it seems to be everyway.
(09:19):
It's not people, not at all what it seems an
absolutely not. Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute.
You've been on every kind of crime scene known to man.
In fact, you claim that's where we first met. I
claim we met in court. But okay, I guess two
honest people can disagree. So Cheryl McCollum, please did you
(09:42):
hear him say, oh, this can't be quick, because my
story of how I accidentally killed John Benny Ramsey needs
a lot of time, translation, a lot of attention on
me in front of the microphone, in front of the camera,
with everybody clicking their their photos. What a load of BS? Now, Cheryl,
(10:04):
you are a crime scene investigator. Extraordinary, Now that's a legal, technical,
legal term, load of b asked or I need to
explain that to you. Let me tell you it ain't Latin. No,
it is a load of BS. And I'll tell you
I'm going to explain why it's a load of BS.
I have been on thousands of crime scenes and anthy
and when something is an accident, that scene can absolutely
(10:28):
be staged. But I have not seen where a stranger
makes an accident looks worse. So here's what he wants
us to believe. Johnny slipped and hit her head and died.
So he doesn't admit to killing her. He said she flipped.
He doesn't talk about the strangulation. He doesn't talk about
(10:51):
the sexual assault. He doesn't talk about whether or not
there was a taser involved with this child. He doesn't
talk about anything but an accident. It was an accident
breaking into the house. It wasn't an accident, you know,
taking her from her bedroom on the third floor and
finding a lost room in a basement and a house
she's supposedly never been in. How in the world did
(11:15):
this man write a three page ransom note? Asked her.
She accidentally dies, so he ain't hurry to get out
of that house, which is also croup, but he stays
there and writes this ransom note. And he just happens
to be ether to write exactly like her mama, to
the point that FBI can't rule the mama out, which
(11:36):
is another reason I do not believe Gary Oliva, and
I didn't believe John Mark Carr, also known as Captain
Underpants at the time. I can't recall why, but I
think both of them are lying and capitalizing on the
death of a little girl. John Vane completely changed me
and removed all evil from me. Just one look at
(11:57):
her beautiful face, her glowing, beautiful skin, and her divine
God body. I lit her slip and her head bashed
in half, and I watched her die. It was an accident.
I believe in my heart of hearts that these are
confessional letters. He told me that if he had the chance,
he would have eaten John Benet Oliva also made these
chilling drawings of the kindergartener. The fifty four year old
(12:19):
has a history of sexually abusing miners. He's currently serving
a ten year sentence in Colorado for possessing child pornography.
Oliva isn't the first to confess to killing little John Bennet.
In two thousand and six, John Mark Carr confessed to
her murder Die accidentally, Carr, who was cleared of all charges.
(12:42):
As for Oliva, although he has confessed to the crime,
investigators are not convinced he did it. Oliva is eligible
for parole in twenty twenty, but Vale, a writer and
publicist who lives in California, says his former friend needs
to stay behind bars. The day he walks free is
the day that I will be terrified for every child
(13:02):
within hundreds of miles of him, because he is not
safe to be out of society. The police department in Boulder,
Colorado has come under heavy criticism for not bringing John
Benet's killer to justice, even admitting that crime scene evidence
may have been mishandled. You're hearing our friend Jesse Palmer
at Delhi Mail TV and part of this guy, Gary
(13:25):
Oliva's letter being read about this little girl's god body
and her beauty and her purity, later saying he wanted
to eat her. Okay, twenty twenty, well, that's certainly a
year we can all look forward to the year that
this guy will make parole. Troice Layton joining me along
with Cheryl McCollum, Bobby Brown, doctor Michelle Dupree, and Robin Willinsky. Troy,
(13:47):
you're the famous LA defense attorney. Why with this guy,
Gary Eliva festering behind bars make this confession because he
won attention, Because just like the other people who have
confessed to this crime but proved to not be the murderer,
(14:09):
done it for exactly what you said, they want, they're
five minutes of fame. Now, thank goodness, there's an illegal
principle just because someone confesses to a crime doesn't allow
them to be prosecuted unless there's other evidence that they
committed the crime. And thank goodness for that rule. You're right,
(14:32):
Troice Layton, You're absolutely right. The law is throughout every jurisdiction,
and this has been taken all the way to the
US Supreme Court, and that is why it's a uniform
and every jurisdiction. You know, violent crimes are usually prosecuted
by the states, and we've got fifty of them. You'd
think there'd be fifty different sets of rules. There are
not they may differ in some ways, but many state opinions, decisions,
(14:59):
and criminal cod have been taken all the way to
the US Supreme Court. The Supremes make a decision and
then all the other states fall into line with that.
Now he's right, Royce Layton is right. You cannot prosecute
someone based on their confession alone. There has to be
corroborating evidence, Thank the Lord. So, Robin Willinski, let me
(15:25):
ask you this, what do we know about the physical
evidence opposing or supporting this freak Gary Oliva's confession he
killed John Benet? Well, Nancy, there is not a DNA link.
From what I understand, there was DNA in John Benet's
underwear to this day that has never been identified. Every year,
(15:48):
to my understanding, the FBI crime lab in Virginia runs
that sample over and over and over again more than
twenty years to this day. Nancy ever has been identified.
And it's interesting, and you know this because you have kids.
If you go to a store or a Target of
Walmart wherever, and you go to buy underwear that's just
(16:11):
hanging on a little hanger, that's not in a plastic wrap,
and someone if she had on, for example, new underpants,
and someone would have touched that in a store, or
the lady who man or someone who's checking you out
at the counter touches that. They still don't know where
that DNA is. And Gary Oliva does not match that
DNA sample. Well, I mean, Cheryl Wia call them. You
(16:32):
and I both are raising a boy and a girl.
A million times. I've been the one the mom and
I hate that mom sitting in the floor of Target
or wherever, and I take the underwear out of the pack.
I know it's also neatly package, and I take it out.
I try not to destroy the package, and I hold
(16:52):
it up and to Lucy's shot in horror, I hold
it up to her as she's standing there in her clothes,
going mom to see, okay, is this gonna fit her?
So I've handled it. You know, I may have on lotion,
I may have just washed my hands. Whatever the minute
amount of DNA on John Benet's underwear, What if anything
(17:15):
does that mean? Except one thing, we know it's not
Gary Oliva's. What else do we know about that also
doesn't match anybody in her family. So again, it could
very well come from the person that was examining the
underwear before it left the factory. Somebody could have sneezed,
They could have been sweating, who knows, We don't know.
That's the whole point. But it doesn't match this guy
(17:36):
and the other thing that falls short with his story, Nancy.
He wants us to believe that he stopped and fed
the child pineapple. He wants us to believe that he's
spent all this time looking for a legal pad and
looking for a pen and writing his three page ransom
note and just walking all over the house instead of
getting the hell out of there because he just killed
the child. None of this makes sense. He just happened
(17:59):
to know John's bonus of one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars.
He just happened to know about this lost room. None
of this makes any sense. And here's the biggest thing
for me. In the autopsy, they are very clear to
point out that John Banet had chronic vaginal injuries that
to me does not suggest a stranger at all. But
(18:21):
does it suggest And again let me point out that
the brother, who I have never once suspected based on
statistics alone, but especially looking at him compared to John Banat,
I think she could crack him in two with one
hand behind her back. The brother has actually sued when
it was suggested he was guilty, and you know, if
(18:43):
doing that it would have basically allowed him to be
put on the stand, and he was not afraid of that.
So I've never believed Burke did it, and I don't
believe the dad did it because John Benet, to my understanding,
still had a hymen means an adult male had never
had relations with her. Gary Eliva now confessing I did it,
(19:08):
is the case now solved in the murder of John Benet,
or is it simply more murky? I and Nancy Grace here,
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(19:30):
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(20:15):
Go to truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy right away
to start searching truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy truthfinder
dot com forward slash Nancy. Find the truth crime stories
(20:35):
with Nancy Grace. Boulder Police say Gary Olivia is still
a suspect and the John Vannie Ramsey murderer. He has
not been cleared, but is well known to officers and
city leaders. Tell me if new information comes to light
through his most recent arrest, they will certainly look into it.
(20:56):
Nearly two decades after John Vaney Ramsey was killed Insider
Families Boulder Home, a suspect and the infamous Christmas Night
murder is behind bars, accused of downloading child pornography. We
haven't ruled him in or out in connection with the
Ramsey case. Boulder Police, the same agency investigating the Ramsey case,
arrested fifty two year old Gary Oliva after getting a
cyber tip that looked like somebody was getting in pornography
(21:18):
materials related to children to an address the investigators were
able to link to mister Oliva. Court documents show he
downloaded twenty two separate sexually explicit images. All of the
photos showed children under ten years of age, who certainly
understand the interests in mister Oliva, both in connection with
the new charges and his possible connection in the past.
Oliva wasn't one of the early suspects in the Ramsey case,
(21:40):
but the convicted sex offender may have been close to
the Ramsey home on the night of the murder and
when he was arrested on other charges back in two thousand,
police found a photo of Ramsey in his possession and
he did admit to having an obsession with a young
beauty queen. Feel like we ought to look at all
people as being possible suspects that have been possible suspects before.
For now, Boulder Police say it's focused on the most
(22:00):
recent charges, but that could change if additional information about
him becomes available subsequent to his arrest. In this case,
we'll certainly look at it now. Eliva is charged with
three felonies for sexual exploitation of a child. You are
hearing our friend at ABC seven. They're in Denver. That's
Jennifer Kovaleski talking about the twenty sixteen arrest of Gary
(22:22):
Eliva on child porn. Now he jumps up and says,
I kill John Banet. But Bobby Brown, Colorado Private Investigator
is correct, he said it before. But you know what,
as I always love to say in court when the
defense jumps up and over and ever, I'm like, you
can say that, oh all you want to. You can
say a hundred times, two hundred times, a thousand times.
(22:42):
It doesn't make it true. Just because he keeps saying
I did it, I did it doesn't make it true.
Joining me right now, renown medical examiner and author of
Homicide Investigation Field Guide. Now there's some good reading right there,
Homicide Investigation Field Guide. You know, Jackie and Allan, Jackie
Howard and Allen Duke always roll their four eyeballs when
(23:06):
I talk about one of my favorite books ever, Method
and Assessment of Homicide and Suicide. I mean, I can't
tell you how many times I read that. And of
course the Gun Lover's Bible, so I would familiarize myself
with ballistics. So you know, Homicide Investigation Field Guide I'm
very impressed, doctor Michel Dupree, But that's not my issue today.
(23:28):
My issue is Gary Oliva, because a lot of people
want to believe, yes, he did it and put the
case to bed. But I don't take it very lightly
when somebody makes a false confession, because you know what
that does. That ruins a potential future prosecution of the
real killer because as giving no offense choice Layton slimy
(23:53):
defense attorneys a defense on a silver platter, say I
catch the real killer. And then here comes TROYE Slate
bouncing into court and his two thousand dollars Armani suit
and his fancy Italian loafers. He comes up and he goes,
oh really, because John Mark Carr said he did it
and Gary Olivia said he did it, it doesn't help,
(24:16):
doctor Michelle Dupree. It doesn't help at all when some
nut job like Oliva claims he did it, and hey,
what if he did? So, Michelle Dupree, Doctor Dupree, how
do I prove he did or didn't do it based
on the crime scene in the DNA fancy? That's an
excellent question. We go with a physical evidence, I mean,
(24:37):
physical evidence does not lie, and your guests are far
have mentioned many instances and where it just doesn't add up.
The DNA doesn't match, there's no other physical evidence at
the crime scene to make a confession. We all know
that some people just want the spotlight, and so that's
where we'd have to go on the defense of this.
Go with the physical evidence and you will never go wrong.
(24:57):
You know what. I used to argue something like that
to juries all the time, not as eloquently as you
just did. And you didn't even train three years to
speak in front of a jury. Very well. Put, you
have to follow the hard forensics if you've got it,
And here, Cheryl McCollum, we have a glaring lack of
(25:18):
forensics pointing to Oliva. Cheryl McCollum, if you had one
minute in front of the jury, what would you say
to sum up the fact did Gary Oliva murder little
beauty Queen John Benet. He has not given us one
thing about that crime scene we didn't already know or
(25:40):
we didn't publish. He's a liar and he's out for attention, period.
What about forensic Cheryl, There is no zero that leads
to him. There's no DNA, he's got no clothing with
her blood on it. He's got no hair from her, nothing,
nothing leads us to him. And Anthia is another thing.
No blame, get it. The whole surrounding of that house,
(26:02):
the whole perimeter. There's no footprints coming or going from
that house. What did he do? H a bag out
of there? Come on, he didn't do it. He does
it right like her mama. He didn't spend hours in
that house after he quote accidentally killed her and found
a paint brush and a piece of rope and did
(26:23):
a makeshift you know, way to strangle that base rite. Yeah. So,
Troy Slayton, you're the renowned defense attorney. If you were
defending a future defendant, what would you say? Because I
know you can spin a yarn. No offense, Troy, and
I'm sure an untaken But what would you what would
(26:44):
you say? It sounds like to say he can do it.
If you say you're you aren't defending Jackie Howard five
years from now, who's now charged with murdering John Benett.
How would you try and pin this on a leva?
Why would certainly point to his confession? I would say,
let's believe a person when they make a statement against
(27:07):
penal interest. Here's another legal theory for the audience. When
somebody says something that goes so far against what an
average person would do and tends to inculpate themselves, tends
to make themselves look guilty, that type of statement is
more trustworthy here. A normal person doesn't commit I mean,
(27:29):
doesn't admit to committing a crime that they didn't do.
A normal person doesn't. Obviously Oliva's is not a normal person.
And if I was called upon to defend Oliva's in
some sort of future prosecution, well you have my witness
list already all set for me too. Bobby Brown, who
is a veteran in law enforcement Colorado private investigator, Bobby Brown, again,
(27:53):
thank you for being with us. You've heard Cheryl McCollum
explying why she doesn't think Oliva is response or committed
the crime, but you disagree. Explain. I want everybody to
know that I am not saying by any means that
Gary Oliva is, even though he confessed again that he
(28:16):
is the person that is responsible for the death of
John Benet. But I just wanted to say a couple
of things. Is that after John Benet's death, Gary Olivia
did leave the state and where he sexually molested a
seven year old little girl. And he was in Boulder
(28:41):
the night that John Benet was killed. He was supposedly
staying at a church near by their house, and the
next morning he called his friend. He tells his friend
that he had done something really bad that a little girl.
(29:02):
One thing that I will say that when I called
up when he was arrested in two thousand and sixteen
with the pornography charges I did, I got all of
the bonding information, which I have printed out right in
front of me, and it clearly says that he was
arrested on April tenth. However, he was booked into the
(29:24):
Boulder County Jail on June seventeenth, and he had a
bond set for twenty five thousand dollars. When I asked
the jail where was he between April tenth and June seventeenth,
and the exact quote from the deputy or person that
(29:45):
I spoke to the jail said that it was the
sixty four thousand dollars question of the day. The world
was shocked to hear about the motive of the six
year old beauty pageant princess jumping a Ramsey. Since this
horrible day, her death has remained as one of the
biggest mysteries of all time, which has set in motion
at many conspiracy theories, some crazy but others more grounded
in reality. Today, Lauren Forces are on the brig of
(30:09):
closing the case after Gary Oliver, a fifty four year
old convicted pedophile who is currently serving time in prison,
confessed to her murder. The Daily Mail obtained letters written
by Gary Oliver. The report claimed the fifty four year
old is taking full responsibility for the crime, saying he
killed her by accident. I never loved anyone like it
did John Bernee, and yet I let her slipped, her
(30:29):
head bashed and I watched her die. He allegedly wrote,
it was an accident. Please believe me. She was not
like other kids. John Bernee completely changed me and removed
all evil from me. Oliver stated, just one look at
her beautiful face, her beautiful skin and divine God body.
I realized I was wrong to kill other kids. Yet
(30:50):
by accident she died and it was my fault. The
sensational letters was sent to the music publicist to Michael Vale,
a former mate of Oliver's who has quartedly suspected his
involvement in the crime for many years. The shock admission
is one of the biggest breakthroughs in the now infamous case,
which has had detective stumped for years. My suspicion began
(31:11):
when Gary called me late one night on December twenty six,
nineteen sixty six. He was sobbing and said, I heard
a little girl. The fifty five year old told the publication,
you're hearing our friends at Daily Mail regarding Gary Oliva
announcing he murdered John Benet. I don't know that I
would call his confession a breakthrough. I think I call
it more of a speedbop. To Bobby Brown, Colorado private investigator,
(31:34):
how did you first learn about Eliva? At the breakfast
meeting that Lou Smith and I had? And Lou Smith
was the one that brought up that there was a suspect,
Gary Oliva, and Lou was very serious about it. I was,
and obviously that's how I I put a lot of
work to this. And I want to say that, you know,
(31:55):
when people ask real quick, why would anybody confess to this?
You know, why would you leave? But consessted this, and
you know that's a great question, because somebody that's been
around with this for a long time. The sex offenders
and especially pedophiles, they don't do really well in prison.
So you know, if you're in prison and all of
a sudden you're you're saying, here's this gigantic case that's
(32:18):
been out there for all these decades, and then you're
saying that you are the one that did it, you know,
that's not a very smart move by any meaning. Well,
it could be. To Robin Willinski, Crime Online dot Com
investigative reporter and author of Beautiful Life See Aside behind
Casey Anthony Trial on Amazon, Robin, you've studied this very
very carefully. We all covered at John Manai's death and
(32:41):
the investigation intensely at the time. What do you make
of it? What about his confession is consistent or inconsistent
with the facts, the forensic facts as we know them. Well,
I'll tell you an aunty. I was actually out there
in another lifetime in two thousand and six working for
another network when they bought brought John Mark Carr back
to the United States, And I will tell you that
(33:02):
I knew of Aliva, but I do not believe that
the DNA there's no DNA that puts him inside that house.
For me personally, my big takeaway after all these years,
the only thing that connects John Mark Carr, the other
guy who said that he killed John Beday, the only
thing in my mind that connects him to the case.
You know, there's no receipts, there's no DNA. That ransom
(33:23):
note that Patsy finds on the bottom of the staircase
is signed s b TC, and no one has ever
been able to explain what those letters stand for. Well,
in my old job at a different network, we had
a producer that was sniffing around in this little town
in Alabama where John Mark Carr is from. And in
(33:44):
one of his yearbooks he signs it SBTC shall be
the Conqueror. And to me, that's an interesting takeaway to
this case. Also, there was a window in the basement
that there's some glass that was pushed in. The only
person skinny enough, physically small enough to have gotten into
(34:05):
that window from the outside is not Aliva. He's a
much bigger guy. The only person who would fit through
that window would be someone like John Mark Carr, who
is that sick you know, Roby Mallinski. When I would
try cases. In closing argument, I carried with me a
huge jar of water, and at the bottom, Cheryl, don't grown,
because you remember this, there was dirt at the bottom.
(34:29):
And at the beginning of my closing statement. Sometimes, if
it fit, i would take the big jar and I'd
shake it in front of the jury to make sure
they saw me do it. I'd set it down on
council table and then I'd start my closing argument, which
would at the least take one hour. By the time
(34:50):
the hour was up, I would pick up the jar,
which now all the soil was at the bottom, and
I'd hold it up and say that defense is trying
to muddy the water. I've explained to you the facts
and see now is crystal clear you are muddying the water.
(35:11):
Robin Wilinsky, I'm just gonna tell you right now because
and you have me. You're like a little snake charmer.
Oh SBTC and he could fit through the window. I'm
calling b yes again, Troy S Laton, LA defense lawyer.
Isn't it true John Mark Carr was in another state
when John Benet was killed. That's when all the evidence
(35:32):
shows and it's it's unbelievable to why can't you just
say yes like a normal person. Why why do you
have to leave a little doubtling? Really well, that's what
the evidence shows, as if to say, bet Man I wasn't.
Maybe he was with Harry Potter. Maybe he was with
Harry Potter and they transported what's the word they use
in Harry Potter. I've got I've read them so many times,
(35:54):
and they appeared in John Manay's basement. He wasn't out
of the state. Troy Slayton, he may have been out
of the state. That's what the evidence appears to show, Nancy,
But I wasn't with them. You weren't with them, so
we can't say for sure. And it's this exact type
of confession from Oliva that is, as you've said, a
(36:19):
goldmine for the defense in any future prosecution of this
horrific tragedy. To doctor Michelle Duprey, medical examiner and author
Homicide Investigation Field Guide, do you see anything on the
scene of the murder that indicates Oliva is the killer? Nancy,
not that I can tell. I mean, there is no
physical evidence, and that's always what we have to go for.
(36:40):
Everything that your other guest have said is absolutely true.
There's no way to tie him to this. We depend
on something called low cards exchange, where a perpetrator comes in,
brings something from outside into the crime scene and then
take something away from the crime scene outside. We don't
have that here too, Cheryl McCollum, Cold Case Research Institute Director,
CSI expert. Cheryl, you know, give me your best shot
(37:04):
as to why he did do it. I know that's
gonna be tough. Zero there's nothing, and I'm gonna blow
your mind. Cadn't you just use your imagination for Pete's sake?
Defense attorneys to do it all the time. I do,
And in order to do that, I would have to
make something up, which is exactly what he's done it.
But I'm going to blow your mind. He didn't even confess,
he said, John Beney slipt and she hit her head.
(37:28):
We don't even have a confessience. He's a liar, is
that true? Bobby Brown Colorado a PI Is there nowhere
he says I did it? Not from ideal and there
is one to Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case
Research Institute. I know you couldn't stretch your imagination to
(37:51):
come up with an argument that Eliva's guilty. But if
you were arguing to the jury right now, why would
you say he's not guilty of John Benet's murder. His
handwriting does not match the ransom note. He writes an
all caps the ransom note does not in the ransom note.
It says things like at ashe and she's gonna be beheaded,
(38:13):
and all of these things. His confessions, it's not it's
not a confession number one and number two. He doesn't
say what he hit her in the head with. It
doesn't say you know why he did it. He doesn't
say he's molested her or anything. He doesn't say how
he got in her out of the house. He doesn't
say how he knew where the locked bedroom was or
(38:35):
the room. He doesn't say where the pineapple came from,
or why he took time to feed this child. He
doesn't say where he found a legal pad or the inkpen,
or why he would go from the third floors to
the basement, and spends all of this time in this
house writing a three page note looking for these instruments
to do that, all the while there's a dead six
(38:56):
year on the basement that he didn't mean to really
kill in the first place. None, none of it makes
any sense. And Nancy, he's a liar, and he's an opportunist.
And he and his you know, elementary school friend. Maybe
they want to write a book. I don't know what
they're doing. But it's not true. There's nothing authentic. Again,
he has not told us one thing that is not
(39:18):
public knowledge about that thing. Explain whether or not she
was paved. Tell me, tell me what the marks are
on her neck, Tell me how the scratch has got
on her back. Tell me why the paintbrush. Why you
would make this really crude garrett to strangle her with?
And why do you keep talking about the head in dream?
You don't mention his trangulation at all. Just patiki eye. There.
(39:40):
We know she was strangled. That's the official rule. Explain
it to me. Why would you make a little drawing
in the palm of her hand? Why would you go
back up the stairs and get her favorite toy? He
can't explain any of that because he didn't do it.
I think that says it all, Kama says. Tells me
Gary Olivia is just seeking attention, a book deal, a
movie deal, or who knows what, maybe even protective custody.
(40:04):
We'll see Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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