May 9, 2025 • 42 mins
Syracuse, New York, five underclassmen on the Westhill High School lacrosse team were excited when older teammates invited them to watch a rival school's match and get dinner at McDonald’s.
After the game, while driving home, the car’s driver appeared to get lost and pulled over. Suddenly, masked attackers—armed with at least one knife and possibly a gun—emerged from a wooded area and tried to kidnap the boys. Four escaped, but the masked men captured one.
Outnumbered 11 to one, the boy had his hands tied and a pillowcase placed over his head before the assailants forced him into the trunk of a car at knifepoint. The kidnappers taunted him as they drove to another secluded, wooded area and left him on the ground—alone and fearing for his life.
Still bound and blindfolded, the boy heard the attackers return. He didn’t know if they planned to release him or kill him. Instead, they revealed it was a prank. The attackers were upperclassmen on the lacrosse team staging a hazing ritual. The entire incident was recorded on video.
The next morning, the victim’s family reported the incident to the school, as students circulated the video and rumors of the mock kidnapping sparked a social media firestorm in the community.
A school resource officer reported the incident to the Sheriff’s Office, triggering an investigation.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Shari Foltz - Mother of Stone Foltz, Son Died during a hazing incident at a frat initiation at Bowling Green State University // Founder of I Am Stone Foltz Foundation
- David Bianchi - Trial lawyer at Stewart, Tilghman, Fox, Bianchi & Cain, [recognized as "America’s leading hazing lawyer"], Represented Danny Santulli's family who was left permanently impaired after fraternity hazing incident at University of Missouri
- Dr. Gary Brucato - Clinical Psychologist and Author: “The New Evil: Understanding the Emergence of Modern Violent Crime”
- Barry Hutchison - Former 26-year law enforcement veteran and detective, now owner & Chief Investigator for Barry & Associates Investigative Services [located in Kansas & Missouri]
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet," and Host of "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" X:@JoScottForensic
- Mary Kielar - Investigative Reporter for CNY Central Media Group; Instagram @MaryKielar, Facebook @MaryKielarCNYCentral, X: MaryKCNY
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, breaking news.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Tonight, a high school hazing goes horribly wrong. The district
attorney makes a public statement to the perpetrators.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Turn yourself in.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories, and I want
to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Five underclassmen on the West Hill High School lacrosse team
are on a rare social outing with a couple of
older teammates. The occasion is unlike any other. If all
goes well, the younger teams might have a shot at
proving their worth as new players on the team. It's
a golden ticket to the highly coveted prize of social acceptance.
In the intricate hierarchy of high school politics.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Politics, social status, What does nobody get even now that
these hazing incidents end in death. Before I go out
to an all star panel, I want you to meet
someone very near and dear to my heart, and I
(01:05):
finally get to speak to her in person. Sherry Falts
is with us, the mother of Stone Faults, founder of
I Am Stone Falts Foundation, the mission to stop deadly hazing.
She lost her boy, her beautiful boy, Stone. Sherry, thank
(01:30):
you for being with us, Thank you for having me,
Miss folks, when you hear of another, and another and
yet another deadly hazing has happened, what goes through your mind?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
It's just it's unbearable to say the least. You know,
we continue to hear stories. I continue to read it.
You know through Google alerts that it continues to happen.
It's happening more often in high schools. It's just it's
it's a nightmare. I remember four years ago now hazing
(02:10):
wasn't even spoken about. Now it's becoming more prominent. It's
in the news more often. You hear about it every day.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Joining me is stone Faults his mom. There have been
even more hazing arrests and hazing incidents since.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
The case we're covering right now tonight.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
But I want to remind everyone who is stone Folds.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Listen, what county name?
Speaker 5 (02:38):
Well one, what does your emergency?
Speaker 6 (02:40):
Hi?
Speaker 7 (02:42):
The one that we know is a non response to
that you drink alcohol, like a lot of alcohol.
Speaker 8 (02:47):
So where is he at?
Speaker 9 (02:49):
We're how old is your friend?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Uh?
Speaker 9 (02:54):
He's twenty twenty, okay, And what's he doing right now?
He's laying down on his side, and his ears are
his face is really purple, and he his pupils aren't responsive. Okay,
is he breathing? Yeah, he's breathing, but it really shallow
(03:15):
and he's been drinking. He said, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Is he taking anything else we need to know about?
Speaker 10 (03:23):
No?
Speaker 9 (03:24):
What's your name?
Speaker 8 (03:26):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Hay, paga? Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Are you positive he's breathing?
Speaker 9 (03:32):
Yeah, yeah, I'm You see his.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Chest rising up and down?
Speaker 11 (03:37):
No?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
No, right, no, okay, he's blue.
Speaker 9 (03:41):
Yeah, Okay, then there's a good chance he's not breathing.
Speaker 8 (03:44):
I want you to get down.
Speaker 9 (03:45):
Is he on the floor?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Oh yeah he is. Okay, do you see his chest
rising at all?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
He said?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Okay, do you.
Speaker 9 (03:55):
Know how to do CPR?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Do you want me to walk you through it?
Speaker 9 (04:04):
Is there somebody else there that can do PPR?
Speaker 6 (04:07):
No?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
No, I walk joining me?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Is Stone's mother, Sherry, miss Folts. What happened to Stone?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Stone was in his sophomore year at blind Green State
University in Ohio and he was had decided last minute
to join a fraternity. Through the process of joining the fraternity,
they were required to do several different I guess you
would call ritual's traditions and as we know now today,
(04:36):
as we learn have learned over time, that's that's called grooming,
So they basically groom you into thinking these things are
okay and what you have to do in order to
join a fraternity. It ended up early March where the
big little event was taken place. It is an event
(04:57):
that reveals the big brother for the members joining the fraternity. Stone.
He ended up going there that night and was taken
down into a basement at the fraternity house, and there
was seven other pledges that night, pledging to be in
(05:19):
that fraternity, and they tied a blindfold over their eyes,
walked them down the stairs to the basement and there
was really a loud heavy metal music playing, made them
very disoriented. Took them down, there was screaming yelling at him,
you know, and then they actually had them take off
(05:42):
their blindfold, and in front of them was standing their
big brother who had a bottle of liquor in their hand,
which they call the family bottle. It's basically passed down
as a tradition from each big brother's family bottle. And
he was handed that bottle and he was coerced or
(06:05):
forced into drinking that entire bottle, and throughout the night,
which was only twenty minutes, he had finished that bottle
because his big brother was cheering him on and the
other big brothers were throwing out the other pledges drinks,
(06:26):
you know, trying to help them out, giving them a chaser,
and he ended up basically being incoherent. He had asked
to go home. They drug him up the stairs out.
Three of the members drove him back to his apartment.
They drug him up the stairs into his apartment, laid
(06:48):
him on the couch, backpacked him, and for one last enjoyment,
took a video of them and you know, said that
he was snoring, making fun of him, when actually he
was diasperating and dying right in front.
Speaker 9 (07:01):
Of their eyes.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
They then left him there and his roommate showed up.
We don't know when, but he didn't wasn't aware of
how much or if Stone had been drinking, but obviously
the sight of him noticed, you know, uh, he was.
He was in trouble. He ended up calling Stone's girlfriend,
who you heard on the nine one one call, Maddie.
(07:26):
Maddie ended up calling nine one one. Uh. You know,
there was talk about fear of retaliation and what the
furniturey Do would do if you know, Stone did survive
what they would do to him or uh the other
people within the apartment. And from there you're in the
nine one one call.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Miss Falts. I noticed your delivery. When you say what
happened to your boy? I meant asked so many times
what happened to my fiance that I can now recite
it because I don't want to feel it. I don't
want to think about what I'm saying. But I know
(08:08):
the story enough that I can recite it. Sometimes when
people ask me, I go, well, that was a long
time ago, so I don't have to recite it again.
How do you steal yourself to tell that story?
Speaker 4 (08:24):
I think you know to tell that story. I hear
the nine to one one call. You know often we
actually play it in our presentations that we delivered to
high schools and universities. Just because it is an emotional
something to hear. I think people need to hear it.
(08:45):
I think these young adults need to hear it because
this is real. To tell his story over and over,
it is hard. It rips the band aid right off.
But I know that by telling his story, we can
hopefully to look for change or saving lies. And that's
the promise that I made to Stone when I walked
(09:05):
in the icy room and saw all the tubes and
everything on him and you know, not breathing on his own.
We had a ventilator. I knew what was going on,
and I told him the one thing we could do
is to fight to make sure this does not happen
to any other family and to another student. And I guess,
(09:25):
and that's what I'm trying to do, is just retell
his story so that people understand this is real and
this is happening, and it has to be taken seriously,
and things need to be done that are going to
take care of hazing once and for all.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Listen to Rix eight.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Elliott join Folks joined this fraternity to network for a
resume building. He saw red flags that this wasn't good.
In that night, he was brought in. He was told
to take his tie off, They blindfolded him, took him
down to a basement along with the other player, and
forced them to drink a handle of alcohol before they
were allowed to leave. Then the active members took stone
(10:08):
Folts completely incapacitated stone Folts to his apartment and left
him there, left him on the couch, face down on
the couch by himself, and by the way, clear up
one quick thing. While that young woman was on the
nine to one one call, his roommate had come home.
He was a boy scout, he was performing CPR at
the time. But that's what they did. These actives forced
(10:30):
him to drink one hundred and fifty pound kid who
really didn't even have a long drinking history, and they
left him at the apartment all by himself, to slowly
die at the hospital hours later. His blood alcohol content
was zero point three nine.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Four that's a fifth of bourbon in twenty minutes on
a boy that had hardly ever even tasted alcohol. On
the heels of stone Faltse's death, now.
Speaker 12 (11:03):
This he was taken to a remote area of the
county and at some point, by pre arrangement, people came
out of the woods, all dressed in black. They were
armed with what appeared to be at least one handgun
and at least one knife.
Speaker 11 (11:17):
In Syracuse, New York, five underclassmen on the West Hill
High School lacrosse team are excited when older teammates invite
them to go to watch your rival schools lacrosse match
and dinner at McDonald's. Upperclassmen are not known for including
younger teammates and social events, and the boys see this
as an opportunity to be accepted by the older players
on the team.
Speaker 12 (11:37):
The individual had a pillowcase placed over his head, he
was tied up and placed in the trunk of a car.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
From our friends at Syracuse dot com, Miss Folds, does
it never end?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Unfortunately, it's not. It's I'm hearing more and more stories.
It's like I said earlier, it's heartbreaking. It's not ending.
It's it's so much more prominent in high schools and
we only hear about it when it gets reported. So,
you know, you just think about all the incidents that
are happening that are not even getting reported. It's it's
(12:16):
the number is outstanding and something needs to be done
about it. And I kudos to mister Fitzpatrick for doing
what he's doing. I think that's the number one thing
is we have to get these das and the judges
to understand and place a huge penalty against these these
(12:39):
students who are doing these acts. That need to understand that,
you know, lives are being taken from hazing, and it's
I just thank you for what he is doing. I
think it's very important. I think it starts there and
they need to be taken seriously. And that's the only
(13:00):
way we're gonna get hazing to end is if it's
taken seriously in our DA's and judges, as I said,
need to do it.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
The night takes a turn for the young boys when
on the way home, the driver of the car suddenly
loses his way, pulling over to the side in a
secluded area. In what seems like a blink of an eye,
the boys are surrounded by masked assailants armed with knives
and possibly even a gun.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
He wasn't lost. The driver pulled over intentionally for hazing. Hazing.
This is what happens. Listen.
Speaker 12 (13:35):
He was taken to a remote area of the county
and at some point, by pre arrangement, people came out
of the woods, all dressed in black. They were armed
with what appeared to be at least one handgun and
at least one knife. The individual had a pillowcase placed
over his head. He was tied up and placed in
(13:56):
the trunk of a car.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
That from our friends at Syracuse dot com and then
the District Attorney, William Fitzpatrick issues a stark warning.
Speaker 12 (14:05):
You have forty eight hours to turn yourself into the Sheriff's.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Department, joining me an all star panel.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
In addition to MISSUS Folks joining us, Mary Keeler is
joining US investigative reporter see in Why Central Media Group.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Mary, thank you for being with us. What happened.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
What we know is that it was a serious criminal
hazing act that District Attorney Bill Fitzpatrick called hazing on
steroids when he started that press conference.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
You just pulled a little bit of sound from there.
Speaker 7 (14:35):
But we know that eleven upper classmen, we know at
least four of them are eighteen.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
From a source.
Speaker 7 (14:41):
Close to the investigation, they put together a ruse that
authorities say was maybe even practice.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Or a dry run.
Speaker 7 (14:49):
Was done the Wednesday night before the April twenty fourth,
That was not last Thursday, but the Thursday before that.
They were going to have younger students go to a
cross game with the upperclassmen, then go to McDonald's for dinner.
That was quickly found out to be a ruse. They
were tied at the hands, they had a pillowcase placed
(15:10):
over their head. They were placed in a trunk of
a car driven to a remote part of Onondaga County
and it's there. We're told that many other members of
the team are there with black clothing. They're coming out
of a wooded area in what appears to be in
a gun and a knife, and they're all wearing black,
black clothing. And we also know that this whole ordeal
(15:34):
was videotape, that there was a there are as a
video at least that authorities have seen that has been circulating.
But what we do know is that this could have
gone a lot worse. We just confirmed with the district
attorney before I joined this program that he believes it
based on interviews with investigators for people who have come in,
that it was an airsoft gun that was used. But
(15:56):
his point being that if Amber of Law Enforcement that
was on duty pulled over or drove by that scene
in that remote part of the county with some sort
of weapon drawn, whether it be real or fake, it
could have been a completely different scenario.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Joining us now, in addition to Mary Keeler and Sheer
Fols is a renowned attorney in this field representing victims families.
David Biyonki joining US trial lawyer Stuart Tillman, Fox, Beyonki,
and Kaine.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Did you just hear the description and this was rehearsed.
There's no way really to argue this was hazing that
got out of hand.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
This was rehearsed.
Speaker 13 (16:40):
Nancy, You're right, it was rehearsed, and it's unimaginable that
this still goes on.
Speaker 6 (16:47):
But let me just give you my perspective on this.
Speaker 13 (16:51):
I've been involved in these hazing cases for maybe twenty
five years or so, and I've seen all kinds of
bad things. At this point in time, in the year
twenty twenty five, almost every state in the country has
an anti hazing law, Every major university has an anti
hazing policy, every major fraternity and sorority has an anti
(17:13):
hazing policy. Yet it continues. So what we're doing to
try to stop it is not working. But you remember
six years ago at Cornell, Antonio Sianalis died after a
night of hazing and the next day they found his
body at the bottom of a gorge.
Speaker 10 (17:31):
And despite the fact that it was hazing on steroids
in that case, also also in the state of New York,
no criminal charges were ever filed against anybody. So what
kind of a message does that sound? So we've got
together a very.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Very weak message, and I'm going to throw this to
our shrink. Joining us clinical forensic psychologist, visiting scholar, Boston
College and author of The New Evil, Understanding the Emergence
of Modern Violent Crime. Joining us, doctor Gary Bracato, Doctor Bricado,
thank you for being with us. What I don't understand
(18:08):
is why we keep sugarcoating this to call it hazing incident.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I mean, doctor Bricatto, I'm going to do something with.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
You that no lawyer is allowed to do with a
jury and a criminal prosecution, and that is asked you
to put yourself in the shoes of the victim. You
just heard Sherry Foltz describe what was done to her son,
left there and mocked videoed as he was dying. Now,
(18:37):
in the case in Chief, you have boys assailed with
hoods put over their heads, hoods, black hoods put over
their heads, put in car trunks.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
What if that happened to you?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
What if the worst thing that happened to the defendant
that did that to you was that he couldn't go
to work for six months? Really, because that's what the
penalty is, Doctor Precanto.
Speaker 14 (19:08):
No, it's it's awful what I find so especially horrifying
about hazing cases is that they are a perversion of
the idea of seeking affiliation, closeness, of family like connection
with a group of people. And of course the idea
is to break down the will the morality of an individual,
(19:31):
so they basically will do whatever it is that you
want them to do. You groom them to do that.
It's very similar to what you see in cults or
abusive relationships, things like that. And of course in those
groups there are going to be a mixture of people
who are seeking that kind of bond and who are afraid.
The greater the fear, the more likely you are to
(19:51):
create a cohesive bond like that. That's an ancient thing
that happens to human beings.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
You know what all of this is, which is running
by like a stream. The penalty, the penalty for what
they did. You just heard one moment ago David Biyonki,
the lawyer, state that one hazing victim was found at
(20:18):
the bottom of a gorge dead and there were no charges.
I mean, okay, listen to this, doctor.
Speaker 11 (20:26):
Players and parents of the varsity West Hill High School
lacrosse team are informed by the school district. Their season
is officially over. The reason given was not just the
hazing incident, but the increased media attention and concerns that
other teams would not want to play against West Hill.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
The season is over.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
That's the punishment that the lacrosse season is over.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
No and no.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace hazing.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
In other words, murder, kidnapping, aggravator salt is not going
to end.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
If the worst that happens is the lacrosse season is over,
boo oo.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
And you read where parents are upset about this, and
it's like, but you don't understand what that victim is
going to face potentially for the rest of his life.
You know, that is going to haunt him. He is
going to have mental mental health issues, probably for the
rest of his life. I don't think parents and the
(21:41):
staff of these high schools understand the severity that is causing.
You know, they just say that these are pranks, or
you know, it's not to be meant to be harmful,
or it's just you know, unsportsmanlike conduct. These things need
to be taken seriously, and there needs to be churches
pressed and it's the only way. If there's several of
(22:03):
them that are eighteen, they need to be tried as adults.
It needs to be taken further, otherwise it's just going
to continue to happen.
Speaker 15 (22:09):
Outnumbered eleven to one, the boy's hands are tied in
a pillowcase is placed over his head before he has
thrown into the trunk of a car at knife point.
The kidnappers taught the boy as they drive to another
secluded wooded area of the counting and dump him on
the ground a nightmare. As the boy has left alone
in feared for his life.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Joseph Scott Morgan is joining me, renowned professor forensic Jacksonville
State University, author of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon,
and now star of hit podcast Body Bags with Joe
Scott Morgan, but for my purposes. He is a death
investigator who has investigated literally thousands of death scenes. Just
(22:50):
got Morgan by putting a hood over a young boy
or anybody's face, a hood securing it around their.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Over their nose, over their mouth.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I mean, think of tot Mom's case Kelly Anthony, where
Kelly's nose and mouth were covered in duct tape. Okay,
think of the most recent case that you and I covered,
Little Miranda Corsetti, where she had something put over her head.
The dangers of putting a hood as in this case
(23:26):
over anyone's had much less and unsuspected high school boy
and throwing them in the trunk. What happens, of course tragedy,
just Scott, what happens when someone is hooded and thrown.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
In a trunk?
Speaker 8 (23:39):
Well, the first thing that happens, Nancy, is the fact
that you're putting this person in the position of suffering
from severe sensory deprivation. And when that means that they
have they're completely disoriented. And it's.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Okay, I'm sorry, Jessicott, mar you're the death investigator focused
on on deat h death when you have a hood
or a covering.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Over your nose and mouth.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I just gave you two examples, Kelly Anthony and we're
Rando Corsetti. Two examples. Their faces were covered, they died.
Can we talk about being disoriented at the end? People
died just gone with coverings.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Over their face.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
So it's the important The important part of this names
that I was trying to get at is the fact
that they begin to shallow breathe, and if if an
individual is using a bag or a hood. They're also
they're shallow breathing, and then it's not going to be
porous perhaps, and so their oxygen, their oxygen is greatly reduced.
(24:46):
You talk about binding of hands, that they're sequestered in
a dark space and then they're set out and they
have no way of being able to take care of themselves,
and so that fear will cause an adrenaline spike in them, Nancy.
And many times an individual at shallow breathe this can
actually lead to cardiospart or respiratory arrest. That was the
(25:08):
point I was trying to make. And that have no
idea as to what might happen to them. You can
imagine some of the thoughts that are running through their mind.
Am I going to be beaten to death? Am I
going to be abandoned? Is it cold? Am I going
to be subjected to this? All these questions are rolling
through their mind, and all the while they're anxious, and
so the shallow breeze and they can't breede. That's one
(25:31):
of the things that happens that brings about death in
cases like this. Nancy.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
You know what, Joe Scott, You're right. So the shallow
breathing when you're, as you say, disori and afraid. How
does that lead to asphyxiation?
Speaker 8 (25:43):
Well, the airway is blocked and if you're shallow breathing,
or it's compromised. We won't say blocked, but it is
greatly compromised, and so the individual can actually go into
a cardiac arrest as a result of that. There's no
here's the problem. You have no way of understanding what
an individual's anatomy and physiology is. We're all predisposed to
(26:06):
certain types of responses in our body. So this young man.
Speaker 6 (26:11):
He's a kid.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
You have no idea the effects that are happening on
his body specific that are specific to him. It's kind
of like these alcohol poisoning cases where you have individuals
that are forced to drink copious amounts of alcohol. Okay,
you know, we commonly think that point four is lethal range,
and it generally is, but if somebody has a tolerance
(26:36):
for this sort of thing, they can go above that.
And I've actually seen that happen in my career. But
it impacts the individual very specific to them. So you
don't know what you're doing to this child, and he
is a child when you take him out here and
abandon him.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
A hazing prank goes horribly wrong. To Barry Hudginson, joining
us twenty six years in LA law enforcement, now owner,
chief investigator, Barry and associates, Barry, thank you for being
with us. What I don't understand is when you throw
a hood, a black hood, over a boy's head, force him,
(27:19):
tie his hands, and force him into a trunk, why
wouldn't there be charges of kidnapping? And in the other
case we've discussed, why not murder charges?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Why?
Speaker 6 (27:32):
Well?
Speaker 16 (27:32):
The answer, first of all, let me say to you
everybody that's listening, there's a very distinct difference between a
prank and a felon, and what these guys did is
an absolute felony.
Speaker 14 (27:44):
I mean, even if it would have been.
Speaker 16 (27:45):
A toy gun, as long as that person believes and
you know this is to prosecute, as long as that
person believes that it's a real gun, and it can
be a toy gun, the laws the same. It's an
imminent threat. They believe it's an eminent threat, so they're
supposed to act according lander's the letter of law. Why
this hasn't been pursued nationwide as an actual crime is
(28:07):
beyond me. Because it's well beyond that, and the schools
aren't doing anything about it. They don't want their names
to be sullied.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Well, it's not just the schools, Barry, it's not just
the schools. It's law enforcement. It's prosecutors all across the
country going light on hazing incidents. So they keep happening.
To David Beyonke joining me, high profile trial lawyer who
is America's leading hazing lawyer. David, you mentioned the case
(28:37):
of a hazing victim found at the bottom of a gorge.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
We always hear the big lead up.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Turn yourself in in forty eight hours or else. But
it's what happens after that. The purps are either not
treated as adults, of course we all know juveniles can't
be tried as adults, or they're evan like sentences. How
often in a case like this, even when there is
a death, David Biyanci, do you see a murder charge? Look,
(29:09):
I can't hold a gun to your face and pull
the trigger and when you're dead, I go, oh, I
just meant to scare him.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
That's not the letter of the law. David, No, no, Nancy,
it's not.
Speaker 13 (29:21):
And to answer your question, how many times have I
seen a murder charge where someone dies in hazing.
Speaker 8 (29:26):
Never, I can tell you never.
Speaker 17 (29:28):
And in many of the instances, I don't see any charges.
I come back to Antonio Sialis at Cornell twenty nineteen,
a very carefully orchestrated night of hazing, and the next
day he's found dead at the bottom of a gorge.
Not a single criminal charge filed. I reached out to
the prosecutor at Thompson County, spoke to the office, laid
(29:49):
out all the evidence about why they should bring the charges.
They never filed a single charge, and the universities go
light on these guys to participate. It just leads to
the same thing over and over again. It doesn't curtail
the conduct. And I don't care how many laws you pass, well,
how many seminars they have to go to.
Speaker 10 (30:09):
It's not enough.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
His wrists and hands are bound and a pillowcase thrown
over his head as he's stuffed into the trunk of
a car. The mass men drive and dump the boy
at another secluded area as they taunt and mock the underclassmen.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I want you to hear about the case of Danny.
Speaker 13 (30:38):
Listen, Danny Santully is still unable to speak. He has
massive brain damage. He's lost his eyesight, he's blind, and
he cannot walk.
Speaker 10 (30:48):
They got all these pledges to come to the fraternity house.
They all had to take off their shirts. They then
were all blind told that this is all on video.
You don't have to trust what I'm telling you. It's
all on surveillance video. They then paraded them down into
the basement and down there they met their dad and
they removed their blindfolds. They were given their bottle, their
(31:10):
family bottle to alcohol. Many of them then had the
bottle taped to their hand. They then paraded upstairs with
the bottle tape to their hand and then started to
drink with the alcohol that was spread out around the house.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Reports eyewitnesses relate that a funnel a funnel was actually
put shoved into Danny's mouth.
Speaker 10 (31:34):
WebStar comes along, puts a tube in his mouth with
a funnel, pour his beer down his throat. After he
had consumed about half the bottle of alcohol, and approximately
twenty minutes later, while Danny is still out in the
courtyard with maybe one hundred pledges and trap members, you
can see Danny start to wabble and then he collapses.
You see him fall backwards over a piece of furniture
(31:56):
and onto the ground. They then pick them up. They
carry him into the house and they put him in
a TV room where they have couches, and a couple
of guys bring him in and they PLoP them down
on the couch and he's still alive. He's moving around,
but you can tell he's in distress. And more so
now Danny is totally left alone. He's now flat on
(32:18):
the couch. He slides off the couch with his face
planted on the floor and his feet on the couch,
and he's not moving at all. They see that he's
unresponsible on the couch and they think, oh my god.
Speaker 8 (32:29):
Maybe he's dead.
Speaker 10 (32:31):
And they go to pick him up, and he's having
a hard time picking Danny up. So they got some
big guy to pick him up and they scoop him
up off the couch and they're not going to call
nine to one one, and they're holding him upside down,
if you can picture such a thing. And as they're
getting to the exit door, they drop him on his
head and then they have to get him back up
again and they carry him outside, put him in the car.
(32:53):
He's now technically dead. They get him over to the hospital,
to the er somebody can twenty hours from the eer,
they do CPR and then restart as hard.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Oh my stage, does it never end? David beyond you?
What happened to Danny.
Speaker 13 (33:08):
Danny Santulli at the University of Missouri is the worst
fraternity hazing injury where a victim lived in the history
of the United States. You cannot be more seriously injured
than the injuries that Danny has. He is alive today,
being taken care of by his parents. That's their choice,
in their home. Again their choice, and his condition is
(33:33):
unchanged today. He still is blind, can't walk, can't speak,
will never be able to take care of himself, all
because he went through a hazing incident that's been repeated
hundreds of times around the United States over many years,
the passing of the family bottle of alcohol, and every
time it happens, everybody says, we're going to make sure
(33:56):
this never happens again, and it does happen again because
we're not doing the right things to stop it.
Speaker 11 (34:03):
When Robert Champion was experiencing a ritual hazing at Florida
A and M. At least eighteen band members were present.
Band members described a chaotic and violet ritual called crossing
bus se. The band buses parked behind an Orlando hotel
after a game and Champion has to push his way
from the front of the bus to the back with
roughly twenty people punching, kicking, and hitting him with drum mallets.
Speaker 9 (34:28):
Was he like shaking or anything like that part of it? Oh? Yeah,
he wasn't.
Speaker 6 (34:31):
He wasn't shaking.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
I don't know how he would tug and then you
know he was.
Speaker 10 (34:38):
He was.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
He was shaking it and.
Speaker 15 (34:41):
Not doing anything.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Okay, he's totally lying.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
The boy was not just sitting there, this young man,
Robert Champion, for peace sake, he was a member of
the band.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
The band I mean data BEYONKEI.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
How often do you think of the school band turning
violent and killing a band member?
Speaker 9 (35:07):
Never?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Maybe lacrosse, maybe football, but the band for Pete Satan Beyonki.
Speaker 6 (35:13):
No, No, you're right, hardly ever.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Doctor Bricado, even in the band Fatal Hazy.
Speaker 14 (35:20):
Unfortunately, in any group of people where there are people
that are trying to come together under the umbrella of
you know, group, brotherhood, the sisterhood, whatever, it can bring
out this awful quality in people where some sadistic person
who wants you to depend upon them convinces other people
(35:40):
in the group to basically participate in the process of
breaking these people, so that in the name of cohesion,
you give up your will and you're abused, and it
is horrendous. And I have to tell you, Nancy, I
think it's wonderful that you're calling it out because it
is not properly prosecuted. Often I think because it's.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Not it's not darger bricado, and there's no nice way
to say it. We keep calling it hazing. This is
an aggravated assault. The other cases are murder. And what
I don't understand to Joe Scott Morgan, who is describing
what actually happens when you have a hood put over
your head, your hands are bound, you're breathing shallow lee,
(36:21):
and you're thrown.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
In the trunk of a car.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Joe Scott Morgan, if this happened to an adult, not
a child, these would be murder and kidnapping charges. As
a matter of fact, Joe Scott, you have everybody on
this panel is going to know this nine one one
caller is lying about what happened to this young man,
the band member, Robert Champion. Listen to this, Joe Scott,
(36:45):
Are you with him right now?
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I'm with him?
Speaker 10 (36:48):
Maam?
Speaker 9 (36:48):
You got okay?
Speaker 10 (36:50):
Okay?
Speaker 9 (36:51):
Well I want to lay him on the floor. Be
on the floor.
Speaker 6 (36:53):
Okay, on the floor.
Speaker 9 (36:55):
Okay. Is there anything under him? No? No man looking
on them? Okay? Is there an ad available?
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Joe Scott, Morgan and ad running get one in the hotel.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
It's too late for that. Robert is dead.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
And that nine one one caller is lying that Robert,
the little boy on the band, was just sitting there
and suddenly died.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
That's a lie.
Speaker 8 (37:21):
Yeah, that's a load of crap. And you know, way
they're way past this idea that they're going to be
able to disfigulate this young man. Right now, he's just
trying to cover his tracks. Did you hear kind of
how confused he was, not really confused. He's trying to
get his damn story straight at this point in Top And.
Speaker 6 (37:37):
The thing about it means he is that when mister
Champion died, there was a whole bust full of witnesses
and also participants that were egging this thing on.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
You know what, Joe Scott, I'm so glad you said
that same thing here. And Mary Keeler, what are the
charges in the current case.
Speaker 7 (38:01):
So, because all eleven of those players that have turned
themselves in itselves in within that forty eight hour window,
that amnesty window ultimatum that the district attorney gave last Tuesday,
what they were all given was an appearance ticket for
unlawful imprisonment. Imprisonment that is a Class A misdemeanor.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Are any of them in jail?
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Let me make it, pull it down. Are any of
them in jail? Okay to Sherry Folds. You heard Mary Keeler,
None of them are in jail. That was some ultimatum.
It's never going to end unless we crack down and
sentence these perps to jail time.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Do I want to see a seventeen or eighteen year
old go to jail.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
No, But what I don't want to see even more
is another dead child over hazing.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
Absolutely, it's just so distrating. And I think until staff
of these high schools and parents starts with the parents
take this seriously, it's not going to change. We can
do as much education.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
As When you say that, Sherry Foults, that means another mother,
another mother like you, is going to get that phone
call another mother. Do you know, Sherry, that my children
are looking at colleges right now, and every time we
go look at a college, I think about Stone, I
(39:41):
think about Timothy, I think about Robert Champion. It just
nothing is changing, Sherry, Nothing is changing.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
And it's very frustrating from the parents who have to
continue to watch this, who've lost their child from hazing.
And you know, we send our kids off. I sent
Stone off to college. You know, he was considered an adult,
and you expect that the university, the university president, all
(40:13):
the faculty, you're going to take care of them, that
they're doing what they're supposed to do in their jobs
and preventing this this type of tragedy. And unfortunately, and how.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Do you keep from just running out in the street
and screaming your head off every day?
Speaker 4 (40:30):
It's it's definitely it's mental. I've learned to, you know,
just deal with it and continue to to do as
many speaking engagements that we can. We're fighting to push
more laws, you know, and and you know the federal
(40:51):
law has passed this previous uh last October November. And
you know, those types of laws being passed if we
can't enforce them because of the federal law is a
transparency Act and more transparency is being pushed pushed upon hazing.
But if these laws are not being enforced, it's not
(41:14):
going to do any good.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
If you know or think you know anything about the
current hazing incident, dial three one five four three five
three zero four four. We remember American Hero Sergeant Lionel Martinez, Junior,
Almo College, PD, Texas, twenty one years in law enforcement,
(41:38):
leaving behind wife turned widow, Claudia, children Liza, Lionel, Kimberly, Kathleen,
and Lacy. American Hero Sergeant Lionel Martinez Junior, Nancy Grace
signing off goodbye friend B
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, breaking news.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
Tonight, a high school hazing goes horribly wrong. The district
attorney makes a public statement to the perpetrators.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Turn yourself in.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories, and I want
to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Five underclassmen on the West Hill High School lacrosse team
are on a rare social outing with a couple of
older teammates. The occasion is unlike any other. If all
goes well, the younger teams might have a shot at
proving their worth as new players on the team. It's
a golden ticket to the highly coveted prize of social acceptance.
In the intricate hierarchy of high school politics.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Politics, social status, What does nobody get even now that
these hazing incidents end in death. Before I go out
to an all star panel, I want you to meet
someone very near and dear to my heart, and I
(01:05):
finally get to speak to her in person. Sherry Falts
is with us, the mother of Stone Faults, founder of
I Am Stone Falts Foundation, the mission to stop deadly hazing.
She lost her boy, her beautiful boy, Stone. Sherry, thank
(01:30):
you for being with us, Thank you for having me,
Miss folks, when you hear of another, and another and
yet another deadly hazing has happened, what goes through your mind?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
It's just it's unbearable to say the least. You know,
we continue to hear stories. I continue to read it.
You know through Google alerts that it continues to happen.
It's happening more often in high schools. It's just it's
it's a nightmare. I remember four years ago now hazing
(02:10):
wasn't even spoken about. Now it's becoming more prominent. It's
in the news more often. You hear about it every day.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Joining me is stone Faults his mom. There have been
even more hazing arrests and hazing incidents since.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
The case we're covering right now tonight.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
But I want to remind everyone who is stone Folds.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Listen, what county name?
Speaker 5 (02:38):
Well one, what does your emergency?
Speaker 6 (02:40):
Hi?
Speaker 7 (02:42):
The one that we know is a non response to
that you drink alcohol, like a lot of alcohol.
Speaker 8 (02:47):
So where is he at?
Speaker 9 (02:49):
We're how old is your friend?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Uh?
Speaker 9 (02:54):
He's twenty twenty, okay, And what's he doing right now?
He's laying down on his side, and his ears are
his face is really purple, and he his pupils aren't responsive. Okay,
is he breathing? Yeah, he's breathing, but it really shallow
(03:15):
and he's been drinking. He said, yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Is he taking anything else we need to know about?
Speaker 10 (03:23):
No?
Speaker 9 (03:24):
What's your name?
Speaker 8 (03:26):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (03:26):
Hay, paga? Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
Are you positive he's breathing?
Speaker 9 (03:32):
Yeah, yeah, I'm You see his.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
Chest rising up and down?
Speaker 11 (03:37):
No?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
No, right, no, okay, he's blue.
Speaker 9 (03:41):
Yeah, Okay, then there's a good chance he's not breathing.
Speaker 8 (03:44):
I want you to get down.
Speaker 9 (03:45):
Is he on the floor?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Oh yeah he is. Okay, do you see his chest
rising at all?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
He said?
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Okay, do you.
Speaker 9 (03:55):
Know how to do CPR?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Do you want me to walk you through it?
Speaker 9 (04:04):
Is there somebody else there that can do PPR?
Speaker 6 (04:07):
No?
Speaker 1 (04:08):
No, I walk joining me?
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Is Stone's mother, Sherry, miss Folts. What happened to Stone?
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Stone was in his sophomore year at blind Green State
University in Ohio and he was had decided last minute
to join a fraternity. Through the process of joining the fraternity,
they were required to do several different I guess you
would call ritual's traditions and as we know now today,
(04:36):
as we learn have learned over time, that's that's called grooming,
So they basically groom you into thinking these things are
okay and what you have to do in order to
join a fraternity. It ended up early March where the
big little event was taken place. It is an event
(04:57):
that reveals the big brother for the members joining the fraternity. Stone.
He ended up going there that night and was taken
down into a basement at the fraternity house, and there
was seven other pledges that night, pledging to be in
(05:19):
that fraternity, and they tied a blindfold over their eyes,
walked them down the stairs to the basement and there
was really a loud heavy metal music playing, made them
very disoriented. Took them down, there was screaming yelling at him,
you know, and then they actually had them take off
(05:42):
their blindfold, and in front of them was standing their
big brother who had a bottle of liquor in their hand,
which they call the family bottle. It's basically passed down
as a tradition from each big brother's family bottle. And
he was handed that bottle and he was coerced or
(06:05):
forced into drinking that entire bottle, and throughout the night,
which was only twenty minutes, he had finished that bottle
because his big brother was cheering him on and the
other big brothers were throwing out the other pledges drinks,
(06:26):
you know, trying to help them out, giving them a chaser,
and he ended up basically being incoherent. He had asked
to go home. They drug him up the stairs out.
Three of the members drove him back to his apartment.
They drug him up the stairs into his apartment, laid
(06:48):
him on the couch, backpacked him, and for one last enjoyment,
took a video of them and you know, said that
he was snoring, making fun of him, when actually he
was diasperating and dying right in front.
Speaker 9 (07:01):
Of their eyes.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
They then left him there and his roommate showed up.
We don't know when, but he didn't wasn't aware of
how much or if Stone had been drinking, but obviously
the sight of him noticed, you know, uh, he was.
He was in trouble. He ended up calling Stone's girlfriend,
who you heard on the nine one one call, Maddie.
(07:26):
Maddie ended up calling nine one one. Uh. You know,
there was talk about fear of retaliation and what the
furniturey Do would do if you know, Stone did survive
what they would do to him or uh the other
people within the apartment. And from there you're in the
nine one one call.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Miss Falts. I noticed your delivery. When you say what
happened to your boy? I meant asked so many times
what happened to my fiance that I can now recite
it because I don't want to feel it. I don't
want to think about what I'm saying. But I know
(08:08):
the story enough that I can recite it. Sometimes when
people ask me, I go, well, that was a long
time ago, so I don't have to recite it again.
How do you steal yourself to tell that story?
Speaker 4 (08:24):
I think you know to tell that story. I hear
the nine to one one call. You know often we
actually play it in our presentations that we delivered to
high schools and universities. Just because it is an emotional
something to hear. I think people need to hear it.
(08:45):
I think these young adults need to hear it because
this is real. To tell his story over and over,
it is hard. It rips the band aid right off.
But I know that by telling his story, we can
hopefully to look for change or saving lies. And that's
the promise that I made to Stone when I walked
(09:05):
in the icy room and saw all the tubes and
everything on him and you know, not breathing on his own.
We had a ventilator. I knew what was going on,
and I told him the one thing we could do
is to fight to make sure this does not happen
to any other family and to another student. And I guess,
(09:25):
and that's what I'm trying to do, is just retell
his story so that people understand this is real and
this is happening, and it has to be taken seriously,
and things need to be done that are going to
take care of hazing once and for all.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Listen to Rix eight.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Elliott join Folks joined this fraternity to network for a
resume building. He saw red flags that this wasn't good.
In that night, he was brought in. He was told
to take his tie off, They blindfolded him, took him
down to a basement along with the other player, and
forced them to drink a handle of alcohol before they
were allowed to leave. Then the active members took stone
(10:08):
Folts completely incapacitated stone Folts to his apartment and left
him there, left him on the couch, face down on
the couch by himself, and by the way, clear up
one quick thing. While that young woman was on the
nine to one one call, his roommate had come home.
He was a boy scout, he was performing CPR at
the time. But that's what they did. These actives forced
(10:30):
him to drink one hundred and fifty pound kid who
really didn't even have a long drinking history, and they
left him at the apartment all by himself, to slowly
die at the hospital hours later. His blood alcohol content
was zero point three nine.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Four that's a fifth of bourbon in twenty minutes on
a boy that had hardly ever even tasted alcohol. On
the heels of stone Faltse's death, now.
Speaker 12 (11:03):
This he was taken to a remote area of the
county and at some point, by pre arrangement, people came
out of the woods, all dressed in black. They were
armed with what appeared to be at least one handgun
and at least one knife.
Speaker 11 (11:17):
In Syracuse, New York, five underclassmen on the West Hill
High School lacrosse team are excited when older teammates invite
them to go to watch your rival schools lacrosse match
and dinner at McDonald's. Upperclassmen are not known for including
younger teammates and social events, and the boys see this
as an opportunity to be accepted by the older players
on the team.
Speaker 12 (11:37):
The individual had a pillowcase placed over his head, he
was tied up and placed in the trunk of a car.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
From our friends at Syracuse dot com, Miss Folds, does
it never end?
Speaker 4 (11:52):
Unfortunately, it's not. It's I'm hearing more and more stories.
It's like I said earlier, it's heartbreaking. It's not ending.
It's it's so much more prominent in high schools and
we only hear about it when it gets reported. So,
you know, you just think about all the incidents that
are happening that are not even getting reported. It's it's
(12:16):
the number is outstanding and something needs to be done
about it. And I kudos to mister Fitzpatrick for doing
what he's doing. I think that's the number one thing
is we have to get these das and the judges
to understand and place a huge penalty against these these
(12:39):
students who are doing these acts. That need to understand that,
you know, lives are being taken from hazing, and it's
I just thank you for what he is doing. I
think it's very important. I think it starts there and
they need to be taken seriously. And that's the only
(13:00):
way we're gonna get hazing to end is if it's
taken seriously in our DA's and judges, as I said,
need to do it.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
The night takes a turn for the young boys when
on the way home, the driver of the car suddenly
loses his way, pulling over to the side in a
secluded area. In what seems like a blink of an eye,
the boys are surrounded by masked assailants armed with knives
and possibly even a gun.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
He wasn't lost. The driver pulled over intentionally for hazing. Hazing.
This is what happens. Listen.
Speaker 12 (13:35):
He was taken to a remote area of the county
and at some point, by pre arrangement, people came out
of the woods, all dressed in black. They were armed
with what appeared to be at least one handgun and
at least one knife. The individual had a pillowcase placed
over his head. He was tied up and placed in
(13:56):
the trunk of a car.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
That from our friends at Syracuse dot com and then
the District Attorney, William Fitzpatrick issues a stark warning.
Speaker 12 (14:05):
You have forty eight hours to turn yourself into the Sheriff's.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Department, joining me an all star panel.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
In addition to MISSUS Folks joining us, Mary Keeler is
joining US investigative reporter see in Why Central Media Group.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Mary, thank you for being with us. What happened.
Speaker 7 (14:22):
What we know is that it was a serious criminal
hazing act that District Attorney Bill Fitzpatrick called hazing on
steroids when he started that press conference.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
You just pulled a little bit of sound from there.
Speaker 7 (14:35):
But we know that eleven upper classmen, we know at
least four of them are eighteen.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
From a source.
Speaker 7 (14:41):
Close to the investigation, they put together a ruse that
authorities say was maybe even practice.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Or a dry run.
Speaker 7 (14:49):
Was done the Wednesday night before the April twenty fourth,
That was not last Thursday, but the Thursday before that.
They were going to have younger students go to a
cross game with the upperclassmen, then go to McDonald's for dinner.
That was quickly found out to be a ruse. They
were tied at the hands, they had a pillowcase placed
(15:10):
over their head. They were placed in a trunk of
a car driven to a remote part of Onondaga County
and it's there. We're told that many other members of
the team are there with black clothing. They're coming out
of a wooded area in what appears to be in
a gun and a knife, and they're all wearing black,
black clothing. And we also know that this whole ordeal
(15:34):
was videotape, that there was a there are as a
video at least that authorities have seen that has been circulating.
But what we do know is that this could have
gone a lot worse. We just confirmed with the district
attorney before I joined this program that he believes it
based on interviews with investigators for people who have come in,
that it was an airsoft gun that was used. But
(15:56):
his point being that if Amber of Law Enforcement that
was on duty pulled over or drove by that scene
in that remote part of the county with some sort
of weapon drawn, whether it be real or fake, it
could have been a completely different scenario.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Joining us now, in addition to Mary Keeler and Sheer
Fols is a renowned attorney in this field representing victims families.
David Biyonki joining US trial lawyer Stuart Tillman, Fox, Beyonki,
and Kaine.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Did you just hear the description and this was rehearsed.
There's no way really to argue this was hazing that
got out of hand.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
This was rehearsed.
Speaker 13 (16:40):
Nancy, You're right, it was rehearsed, and it's unimaginable that
this still goes on.
Speaker 6 (16:47):
But let me just give you my perspective on this.
Speaker 13 (16:51):
I've been involved in these hazing cases for maybe twenty
five years or so, and I've seen all kinds of
bad things. At this point in time, in the year
twenty twenty five, almost every state in the country has
an anti hazing law, Every major university has an anti
hazing policy, every major fraternity and sorority has an anti
(17:13):
hazing policy. Yet it continues. So what we're doing to
try to stop it is not working. But you remember
six years ago at Cornell, Antonio Sianalis died after a
night of hazing and the next day they found his
body at the bottom of a gorge.
Speaker 10 (17:31):
And despite the fact that it was hazing on steroids
in that case, also also in the state of New York,
no criminal charges were ever filed against anybody. So what
kind of a message does that sound? So we've got
together a very.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Very weak message, and I'm going to throw this to
our shrink. Joining us clinical forensic psychologist, visiting scholar, Boston
College and author of The New Evil, Understanding the Emergence
of Modern Violent Crime. Joining us, doctor Gary Bracato, Doctor Bricado,
thank you for being with us. What I don't understand
(18:08):
is why we keep sugarcoating this to call it hazing incident.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
I mean, doctor Bricatto, I'm going to do something with.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
You that no lawyer is allowed to do with a
jury and a criminal prosecution, and that is asked you
to put yourself in the shoes of the victim. You
just heard Sherry Foltz describe what was done to her son,
left there and mocked videoed as he was dying. Now,
(18:37):
in the case in Chief, you have boys assailed with
hoods put over their heads, hoods, black hoods put over
their heads, put in car trunks.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
What if that happened to you?
Speaker 2 (18:52):
What if the worst thing that happened to the defendant
that did that to you was that he couldn't go
to work for six months? Really, because that's what the
penalty is, Doctor Precanto.
Speaker 14 (19:08):
No, it's it's awful what I find so especially horrifying
about hazing cases is that they are a perversion of
the idea of seeking affiliation, closeness, of family like connection
with a group of people. And of course the idea
is to break down the will the morality of an individual,
(19:31):
so they basically will do whatever it is that you
want them to do. You groom them to do that.
It's very similar to what you see in cults or
abusive relationships, things like that. And of course in those
groups there are going to be a mixture of people
who are seeking that kind of bond and who are afraid.
The greater the fear, the more likely you are to
(19:51):
create a cohesive bond like that. That's an ancient thing
that happens to human beings.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
You know what all of this is, which is running
by like a stream. The penalty, the penalty for what
they did. You just heard one moment ago David Biyonki,
the lawyer, state that one hazing victim was found at
(20:18):
the bottom of a gorge dead and there were no charges.
I mean, okay, listen to this, doctor.
Speaker 11 (20:26):
Players and parents of the varsity West Hill High School
lacrosse team are informed by the school district. Their season
is officially over. The reason given was not just the
hazing incident, but the increased media attention and concerns that
other teams would not want to play against West Hill.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
The season is over.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
That's the punishment that the lacrosse season is over.
Speaker 6 (20:52):
No and no.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace hazing.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
In other words, murder, kidnapping, aggravator salt is not going
to end.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
If the worst that happens is the lacrosse season is over,
boo oo.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
And you read where parents are upset about this, and
it's like, but you don't understand what that victim is
going to face potentially for the rest of his life.
You know, that is going to haunt him. He is
going to have mental mental health issues, probably for the
rest of his life. I don't think parents and the
(21:41):
staff of these high schools understand the severity that is causing.
You know, they just say that these are pranks, or
you know, it's not to be meant to be harmful,
or it's just you know, unsportsmanlike conduct. These things need
to be taken seriously, and there needs to be churches
pressed and it's the only way. If there's several of
(22:03):
them that are eighteen, they need to be tried as adults.
It needs to be taken further, otherwise it's just going
to continue to happen.
Speaker 15 (22:09):
Outnumbered eleven to one, the boy's hands are tied in
a pillowcase is placed over his head before he has
thrown into the trunk of a car at knife point.
The kidnappers taught the boy as they drive to another
secluded wooded area of the counting and dump him on
the ground a nightmare. As the boy has left alone
in feared for his life.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Joseph Scott Morgan is joining me, renowned professor forensic Jacksonville
State University, author of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon,
and now star of hit podcast Body Bags with Joe
Scott Morgan, but for my purposes. He is a death
investigator who has investigated literally thousands of death scenes. Just
(22:50):
got Morgan by putting a hood over a young boy
or anybody's face, a hood securing it around their.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Over their nose, over their mouth.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I mean, think of tot Mom's case Kelly Anthony, where
Kelly's nose and mouth were covered in duct tape. Okay,
think of the most recent case that you and I covered,
Little Miranda Corsetti, where she had something put over her head.
The dangers of putting a hood as in this case
(23:26):
over anyone's had much less and unsuspected high school boy
and throwing them in the trunk. What happens, of course tragedy,
just Scott, what happens when someone is hooded and thrown.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
In a trunk?
Speaker 8 (23:39):
Well, the first thing that happens, Nancy, is the fact
that you're putting this person in the position of suffering
from severe sensory deprivation. And when that means that they
have they're completely disoriented. And it's.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Okay, I'm sorry, Jessicott, mar you're the death investigator focused
on on deat h death when you have a hood
or a covering.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Over your nose and mouth.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I just gave you two examples, Kelly Anthony and we're
Rando Corsetti. Two examples. Their faces were covered, they died.
Can we talk about being disoriented at the end? People
died just gone with coverings.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Over their face.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
So it's the important The important part of this names
that I was trying to get at is the fact
that they begin to shallow breathe, and if if an
individual is using a bag or a hood. They're also
they're shallow breathing, and then it's not going to be
porous perhaps, and so their oxygen, their oxygen is greatly reduced.
(24:46):
You talk about binding of hands, that they're sequestered in
a dark space and then they're set out and they
have no way of being able to take care of themselves,
and so that fear will cause an adrenaline spike in them, Nancy.
And many times an individual at shallow breathe this can
actually lead to cardiospart or respiratory arrest. That was the
(25:08):
point I was trying to make. And that have no
idea as to what might happen to them. You can
imagine some of the thoughts that are running through their mind.
Am I going to be beaten to death? Am I
going to be abandoned? Is it cold? Am I going
to be subjected to this? All these questions are rolling
through their mind, and all the while they're anxious, and
so the shallow breeze and they can't breede. That's one
(25:31):
of the things that happens that brings about death in
cases like this. Nancy.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
You know what, Joe Scott, You're right. So the shallow
breathing when you're, as you say, disori and afraid. How
does that lead to asphyxiation?
Speaker 8 (25:43):
Well, the airway is blocked and if you're shallow breathing,
or it's compromised. We won't say blocked, but it is
greatly compromised, and so the individual can actually go into
a cardiac arrest as a result of that. There's no
here's the problem. You have no way of understanding what
an individual's anatomy and physiology is. We're all predisposed to
(26:06):
certain types of responses in our body. So this young man.
Speaker 6 (26:11):
He's a kid.
Speaker 8 (26:13):
You have no idea the effects that are happening on
his body specific that are specific to him. It's kind
of like these alcohol poisoning cases where you have individuals
that are forced to drink copious amounts of alcohol. Okay,
you know, we commonly think that point four is lethal range,
and it generally is, but if somebody has a tolerance
(26:36):
for this sort of thing, they can go above that.
And I've actually seen that happen in my career. But
it impacts the individual very specific to them. So you
don't know what you're doing to this child, and he
is a child when you take him out here and
abandon him.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
A hazing prank goes horribly wrong. To Barry Hudginson, joining
us twenty six years in LA law enforcement, now owner,
chief investigator, Barry and associates, Barry, thank you for being
with us. What I don't understand is when you throw
a hood, a black hood, over a boy's head, force him,
(27:19):
tie his hands, and force him into a trunk, why
wouldn't there be charges of kidnapping? And in the other
case we've discussed, why not murder charges?
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Why?
Speaker 6 (27:32):
Well?
Speaker 16 (27:32):
The answer, first of all, let me say to you
everybody that's listening, there's a very distinct difference between a
prank and a felon, and what these guys did is
an absolute felony.
Speaker 14 (27:44):
I mean, even if it would have been.
Speaker 16 (27:45):
A toy gun, as long as that person believes and
you know this is to prosecute, as long as that
person believes that it's a real gun, and it can
be a toy gun, the laws the same. It's an
imminent threat. They believe it's an eminent threat, so they're
supposed to act according lander's the letter of law. Why
this hasn't been pursued nationwide as an actual crime is
(28:07):
beyond me. Because it's well beyond that, and the schools
aren't doing anything about it. They don't want their names
to be sullied.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Well, it's not just the schools, Barry, it's not just
the schools. It's law enforcement. It's prosecutors all across the
country going light on hazing incidents. So they keep happening.
To David Beyonke joining me, high profile trial lawyer who
is America's leading hazing lawyer. David, you mentioned the case
(28:37):
of a hazing victim found at the bottom of a gorge.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
We always hear the big lead up.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Turn yourself in in forty eight hours or else. But
it's what happens after that. The purps are either not
treated as adults, of course we all know juveniles can't
be tried as adults, or they're evan like sentences. How
often in a case like this, even when there is
a death, David Biyanci, do you see a murder charge? Look,
(29:09):
I can't hold a gun to your face and pull
the trigger and when you're dead, I go, oh, I
just meant to scare him.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
That's not the letter of the law. David, No, no, Nancy,
it's not.
Speaker 13 (29:21):
And to answer your question, how many times have I
seen a murder charge where someone dies in hazing.
Speaker 8 (29:26):
Never, I can tell you never.
Speaker 17 (29:28):
And in many of the instances, I don't see any charges.
I come back to Antonio Sialis at Cornell twenty nineteen,
a very carefully orchestrated night of hazing, and the next
day he's found dead at the bottom of a gorge.
Not a single criminal charge filed. I reached out to
the prosecutor at Thompson County, spoke to the office, laid
(29:49):
out all the evidence about why they should bring the charges.
They never filed a single charge, and the universities go
light on these guys to participate. It just leads to
the same thing over and over again. It doesn't curtail
the conduct. And I don't care how many laws you pass, well,
how many seminars they have to go to.
Speaker 10 (30:09):
It's not enough.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
His wrists and hands are bound and a pillowcase thrown
over his head as he's stuffed into the trunk of
a car. The mass men drive and dump the boy
at another secluded area as they taunt and mock the underclassmen.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
I want you to hear about the case of Danny.
Speaker 13 (30:38):
Listen, Danny Santully is still unable to speak. He has
massive brain damage. He's lost his eyesight, he's blind, and
he cannot walk.
Speaker 10 (30:48):
They got all these pledges to come to the fraternity house.
They all had to take off their shirts. They then
were all blind told that this is all on video.
You don't have to trust what I'm telling you. It's
all on surveillance video. They then paraded them down into
the basement and down there they met their dad and
they removed their blindfolds. They were given their bottle, their
(31:10):
family bottle to alcohol. Many of them then had the
bottle taped to their hand. They then paraded upstairs with
the bottle tape to their hand and then started to
drink with the alcohol that was spread out around the house.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
Reports eyewitnesses relate that a funnel a funnel was actually
put shoved into Danny's mouth.
Speaker 10 (31:34):
WebStar comes along, puts a tube in his mouth with
a funnel, pour his beer down his throat. After he
had consumed about half the bottle of alcohol, and approximately
twenty minutes later, while Danny is still out in the
courtyard with maybe one hundred pledges and trap members, you
can see Danny start to wabble and then he collapses.
You see him fall backwards over a piece of furniture
(31:56):
and onto the ground. They then pick them up. They
carry him into the house and they put him in
a TV room where they have couches, and a couple
of guys bring him in and they PLoP them down
on the couch and he's still alive. He's moving around,
but you can tell he's in distress. And more so
now Danny is totally left alone. He's now flat on
(32:18):
the couch. He slides off the couch with his face
planted on the floor and his feet on the couch,
and he's not moving at all. They see that he's
unresponsible on the couch and they think, oh my god.
Speaker 8 (32:29):
Maybe he's dead.
Speaker 10 (32:31):
And they go to pick him up, and he's having
a hard time picking Danny up. So they got some
big guy to pick him up and they scoop him
up off the couch and they're not going to call
nine to one one, and they're holding him upside down,
if you can picture such a thing. And as they're
getting to the exit door, they drop him on his
head and then they have to get him back up
again and they carry him outside, put him in the car.
(32:53):
He's now technically dead. They get him over to the hospital,
to the er somebody can twenty hours from the eer,
they do CPR and then restart as hard.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Oh my stage, does it never end? David beyond you?
What happened to Danny.
Speaker 13 (33:08):
Danny Santulli at the University of Missouri is the worst
fraternity hazing injury where a victim lived in the history
of the United States. You cannot be more seriously injured
than the injuries that Danny has. He is alive today,
being taken care of by his parents. That's their choice,
in their home. Again their choice, and his condition is
(33:33):
unchanged today. He still is blind, can't walk, can't speak,
will never be able to take care of himself, all
because he went through a hazing incident that's been repeated
hundreds of times around the United States over many years,
the passing of the family bottle of alcohol, and every
time it happens, everybody says, we're going to make sure
(33:56):
this never happens again, and it does happen again because
we're not doing the right things to stop it.
Speaker 11 (34:03):
When Robert Champion was experiencing a ritual hazing at Florida
A and M. At least eighteen band members were present.
Band members described a chaotic and violet ritual called crossing
bus se. The band buses parked behind an Orlando hotel
after a game and Champion has to push his way
from the front of the bus to the back with
roughly twenty people punching, kicking, and hitting him with drum mallets.
Speaker 9 (34:28):
Was he like shaking or anything like that part of it? Oh? Yeah,
he wasn't.
Speaker 6 (34:31):
He wasn't shaking.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
I don't know how he would tug and then you
know he was.
Speaker 10 (34:38):
He was.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
He was shaking it and.
Speaker 15 (34:41):
Not doing anything.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Okay, he's totally lying.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
The boy was not just sitting there, this young man,
Robert Champion, for peace sake, he was a member of
the band.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
The band I mean data BEYONKEI.
Speaker 2 (35:01):
How often do you think of the school band turning
violent and killing a band member?
Speaker 9 (35:07):
Never?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Maybe lacrosse, maybe football, but the band for Pete Satan Beyonki.
Speaker 6 (35:13):
No, No, you're right, hardly ever.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Doctor Bricado, even in the band Fatal Hazy.
Speaker 14 (35:20):
Unfortunately, in any group of people where there are people
that are trying to come together under the umbrella of
you know, group, brotherhood, the sisterhood, whatever, it can bring
out this awful quality in people where some sadistic person
who wants you to depend upon them convinces other people
(35:40):
in the group to basically participate in the process of
breaking these people, so that in the name of cohesion,
you give up your will and you're abused, and it
is horrendous. And I have to tell you, Nancy, I
think it's wonderful that you're calling it out because it
is not properly prosecuted. Often I think because it's.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Not it's not darger bricado, and there's no nice way
to say it. We keep calling it hazing. This is
an aggravated assault. The other cases are murder. And what
I don't understand to Joe Scott Morgan, who is describing
what actually happens when you have a hood put over
your head, your hands are bound, you're breathing shallow lee,
(36:21):
and you're thrown.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
In the trunk of a car.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Joe Scott Morgan, if this happened to an adult, not
a child, these would be murder and kidnapping charges. As
a matter of fact, Joe Scott, you have everybody on
this panel is going to know this nine one one
caller is lying about what happened to this young man,
the band member, Robert Champion. Listen to this, Joe Scott,
(36:45):
Are you with him right now?
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I'm with him?
Speaker 10 (36:48):
Maam?
Speaker 9 (36:48):
You got okay?
Speaker 10 (36:50):
Okay?
Speaker 9 (36:51):
Well I want to lay him on the floor. Be
on the floor.
Speaker 6 (36:53):
Okay, on the floor.
Speaker 9 (36:55):
Okay. Is there anything under him? No? No man looking
on them? Okay? Is there an ad available?
Speaker 2 (37:03):
Joe Scott, Morgan and ad running get one in the hotel.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
It's too late for that. Robert is dead.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
And that nine one one caller is lying that Robert,
the little boy on the band, was just sitting there
and suddenly died.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
That's a lie.
Speaker 8 (37:21):
Yeah, that's a load of crap. And you know, way
they're way past this idea that they're going to be
able to disfigulate this young man. Right now, he's just
trying to cover his tracks. Did you hear kind of
how confused he was, not really confused. He's trying to
get his damn story straight at this point in Top And.
Speaker 6 (37:37):
The thing about it means he is that when mister
Champion died, there was a whole bust full of witnesses
and also participants that were egging this thing on.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
You know what, Joe Scott, I'm so glad you said
that same thing here. And Mary Keeler, what are the
charges in the current case.
Speaker 7 (38:01):
So, because all eleven of those players that have turned
themselves in itselves in within that forty eight hour window,
that amnesty window ultimatum that the district attorney gave last Tuesday,
what they were all given was an appearance ticket for
unlawful imprisonment. Imprisonment that is a Class A misdemeanor.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Are any of them in jail?
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Let me make it, pull it down. Are any of
them in jail? Okay to Sherry Folds. You heard Mary Keeler,
None of them are in jail. That was some ultimatum.
It's never going to end unless we crack down and
sentence these perps to jail time.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Do I want to see a seventeen or eighteen year
old go to jail.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
No, But what I don't want to see even more
is another dead child over hazing.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
Absolutely, it's just so distrating. And I think until staff
of these high schools and parents starts with the parents
take this seriously, it's not going to change. We can
do as much education.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
As When you say that, Sherry Foults, that means another mother,
another mother like you, is going to get that phone
call another mother. Do you know, Sherry, that my children
are looking at colleges right now, and every time we
go look at a college, I think about Stone, I
(39:41):
think about Timothy, I think about Robert Champion. It just
nothing is changing, Sherry, Nothing is changing.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
It's not.
Speaker 4 (39:52):
And it's very frustrating from the parents who have to
continue to watch this, who've lost their child from hazing.
And you know, we send our kids off. I sent
Stone off to college. You know, he was considered an adult,
and you expect that the university, the university president, all
(40:13):
the faculty, you're going to take care of them, that
they're doing what they're supposed to do in their jobs
and preventing this this type of tragedy. And unfortunately, and how.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Do you keep from just running out in the street
and screaming your head off every day?
Speaker 4 (40:30):
It's it's definitely it's mental. I've learned to, you know,
just deal with it and continue to to do as
many speaking engagements that we can. We're fighting to push
more laws, you know, and and you know the federal
(40:51):
law has passed this previous uh last October November. And
you know, those types of laws being passed if we
can't enforce them because of the federal law is a
transparency Act and more transparency is being pushed pushed upon hazing.
But if these laws are not being enforced, it's not
(41:14):
going to do any good.
Speaker 2 (41:16):
If you know or think you know anything about the
current hazing incident, dial three one five four three five
three zero four four. We remember American Hero Sergeant Lionel Martinez, Junior,
Almo College, PD, Texas, twenty one years in law enforcement,
(41:38):
leaving behind wife turned widow, Claudia, children Liza, Lionel, Kimberly, Kathleen,
and Lacy. American Hero Sergeant Lionel Martinez Junior, Nancy Grace
signing off goodbye friend B
Host
Nancy Grace
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.