May 24, 2024 • 38 mins
While Rebecca Grossman awaits sentencing for mowing down Mark and Jacob Iskander while the Iskander family walked through a crosswalk, Grossman has allegedly been misusing her jail phone privileges.
Prosecutors say the recorded calls document potential criminal conspiracies, such as requests to disclose protected discovery, discussion of various attempts to interfere with witnesses and their testimony, and attempts to tamper with the jury and influence a judge from behind bars.
In one call, Grossman tells her husband to call Scott Erickson, her ex-lover and former major league pitcher, and "tell him to get on a video and that he needs to confess.” In another, Grossman is said to have told her 19-year-old daughter, Alexis, to release the body-camera video footage from the deputy on the scene even though that footage has been sealed. Her daughter responds, "I will."
Grossman's private investigator, Paul Stuckey, also allegedly contacted at least two jurors from Grossman's trial. The DA argues that the only way Stuckey could have found out juror names would be to access a pre-dealing jury list, which amounts to both jury tampering and illegally having jurors' personal information.
The Iskander family also accuses Grossman of "playing games" in court, by hiring a new defense attorney, James Spertus, currently representing Diana Teran from the Los Angeles District Attorney's office. Teran is charged with 11 felonies for allegedly misusing confidential law enforcement records.
Before she was charged, Teran oversaw the prosecutors in Grossman's second-degree murder trial. Because of this, the DA reassigned the prosecutors from the case due to a potential conflict of interest.
The DA's office backtracked on the move days later, reinstating the original prosecutors on the case. At a hearing addressing Spertus' conflict of interest, Judge Joseph Brandolino says he sees no sign of conflict and Grossman’s sentencing hearing will go on as scheduled on June 10. Grossman is expected back in court in early June to address Spertus' recent filing for a new trial.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Matthew Mangino – Attorney, Former District Attorney (Lawrence County); Author: “The Executioner’s Toll: The Crimes, Arrests, Trials, Appeals, Last Meals, Final Words and Executions of 46 Persons in the United States”
- Caryn L. Stark – Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych/FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice
- Robin Dreeke – Behavior Expert & Retired FBI Special Agent / Chief of the FBI Counterintelligence Behavioral Analysis Program; Author: “Sizing People Up: A Veteran FBI Agents Manual for Behavior Prediction;” X: @rdreekeke
- Dr. Jan Gorniak – Medical Examiner, Clark County Office of the Coroner/Medical Examiner (Las Vegas, NV), Board Certified Forensic Pathologist
- Eamon Murphy - Writer for 'The Acorn' Newspaper in California
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace breaking news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Tonight, a young mom and dad walking with their children
on a stroll in the neighborhood when suddenly, out of nowhere,
a married millionaire socialite comes flying around the curve after
a boozy date with her boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Drag racing, Yes, drag racing.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Mom tries desperately to save all of her children, risking
her own life to save them, but she could not
reach two of her little boys. Tonight, after mowing down
two little boys dead and then fleeing the seed of
the crash, only stopping when her airbags deploy on her
(00:47):
Mercedes and it literally stopped. Now am I actually hearing
reports she is tampering with the jury. Good evening, I'm
Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Two SUVs are speeding toward a crosswalk where the Iskander
family is crossing. Nancy Askander says the cars are zigzagging
with each other as if they were playing or racing.
The drivers don't stop at the intersection, not even when
two children are hit. Nancy A. Skander says the cars
didn't stop even with her eleven year old son Mark
(01:25):
on the hood of the car he has found two
hundred and fifty four feet away. Her eight year old son,
Jacob is tossed fifty feet and is lying near the curb.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
You know, I've covered a lot of the hicular homicides.
I have prosecuted vehicular homicides, and I don't believe I
have ever seen a case where a human was thrown
two one hundred and fifty feet the other child thrownd
fifty feet That is nearly the length of a football field.
(01:58):
There's been a lot of back and forth about whether
she was drag racing or not.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Does it matter? After drinking and reportedly.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Using drugs on some boozy date with her boyfriend, this
multi millionaire woman, She's got everything, Why does she have
to do this? And then apparently the athlete boyfriend she
was canondling with goes and hides in the bushes and sees,
oh yeah, him, him, goes in highs to see what unfold.
(02:32):
Did anybody go out and try to save the boys?
Did they even stop? No, they didn't. And now is
this real? She's actually trying to get to the judge,
trying to get friends to talk the judge into a
new trial, trying to reach out to giors to say
(02:53):
what what, trying to get a new trial, and even
contacting the boys mother and father with me an all
star panel to make sense of what we know right now.
But first, to Amen Murphy joining us with the Acorn News,
Aimen what first?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I'm going to get back to.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
The actual lowing down the two little boys and then
continuing to go into your airbags, deploy and stop your mercedes.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I'll get back to that.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
But what can you tell me about this woman who
the judge amazingly says, Oh, she's just naive? Really, what
can you tell me about them trying to reach the
mom and dad of the little boy victims.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Well, she sent them a letter after she was convicted,
and they had previously expressed a desire not to be
contacted by her.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
Well, aim, when you're exactly correct. Listen, Nancy and Kareem
Eskinder endured the Denzil. They're two boys hitting killed by
social aite Rebecca Grossman speeding through the streets. Now, they
claim Grossman is writing them from jail after receiving a
love from grosswand on March thirteenth, the Eskinders reach out
to the county, asking.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Officials to put a stop to it. You know, very curious.
Do we know aimon what she's writing about?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Now? This is after the victim's parents specifically say go away, woman,
leave us alone. Yes, she writes them to say what
she had a chance to apologize already.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
We're not sure what the letter said. It hasn't been
made public. The judge did order her not to have
any more contact, so we don't know at this point
what she said to to Nancy and Kareema Scander.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Take a listen to how this young mom describes the
moment she finds son, Jacob.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
His mother described finding Jacob near the curb. Dori say
he was thrown about fifty feet in the collision. She
said it looked like he was sleeping, and she put
her ear to his chest and heard his heart beating.
He was taking to the hospital, where he was pronounced
dead a few hours later. Mark was two hundred and
fifty four feet away, a distance a deputy who specializes
in crash incidents previously testified was the farthest he has
known a human to be tossed in a crash. His
(05:11):
mother said his body was crumpled and he had blood
pouring out of his nose. He was pronounced dead of
the scene straight.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Back to Aman Murphy joining us from the acorn. Tell
me about what happened the day that these two little
boys were mowed down by socialite Rebecca Grossman. Well.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
It was September twenty twenty and the family had gone
out to take a walk along the lake in Westlake
Village where they lived. It was covid, so they were
out getting some air. Nancy Ascander and her three sons
and went to cross the street towards the lake. Her
husband and their baby daughter had proceeded down the street further,
(05:51):
so they were separate at that point. While Nancy and
her sons were crossing the street, Nancy was in front
with her youngest boy, and the two older boys, Mark
and Jacob were behind them in the crosswalk. As Nancy
got towards the curb in the second two lanes of traffic,
(06:14):
because it's a four lane divided road, two SUVs came
roaring up the road, a black and a white. The
black was in front. She said they were zigzagging as
if they were playing or racing. She grabbed her youngest
boy and dove out of the way of the first car,
the black car, and then the white car went through,
(06:35):
and she turned and saw that Mark and Jacob were gone.
And Mark had been struck and was fifty feet forward,
and Jacob was sorry. Mark was two hundred and fifty
feet and Jacob was fifty feet and Jacob died at
(06:57):
the hospital and Mark died at the scene.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
An ulstar panel and makes sense of what we know
right now to doctor jan Gorniac joining us, Doctor Gorniac,
Board certified forensic pathologist, renowned medical examiner for a medical
examiner Clark County, that's Vegas. Doctor Garniac has always such
an honor to have you on with us. Thank you
(07:21):
for taking time to be with us and address this case.
For a child to be thrown two hundred and fifty
four feet through the air, another child fifty feet one
of them was on the hood of the car for
a period of time, the internal injuries had to be horrific.
Speaker 7 (07:45):
Yes, just looking at the vehicle, you see how much
damage is to the vehicle, and that's from impact to
the children, you know, horrifically. So I say that Jacob
was the one that was to the curb, Do I
have that correct? And so and he was, and so
(08:06):
he his mom Unfortunately this is so Sad could still
hear his heart beating and was taken to the hospital
where he was later pronounced dead.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So he I'm.
Speaker 7 (08:18):
Just looking at the the height difference. So unlike an
adult getting hit by a car, right, you think more
lower impact to the body. So the height of these kids,
you're thinking more chest impact and more head impact. So Jacob,
who was close, he probably you know, didn't fly up
(08:41):
onto the hood like Mark did, and that's why he
traveled more. So he probably got more depending on what
part of the suv hit him. He could have been
tossed by like the front corner panel and tossed. Meanwhile,
Mark got up on the hood and you can actually
see the indentation on the hood, and then was carried
(09:03):
by the speed and then when he was tossed off,
he went that far. So I'm surmising head trauma, definitely,
chest trauma, internal injuries, fractures, multiple, multiple injuries. And unfortunately,
obviously this is the story that we're talking about today.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Taking a look at these two little boys out walking
with their mom and dad and sibling in their neighborhood
and they never make it back home. Why because Rebecca
Grossman a wealthy socialite, plows them down with her Mercedes,
playing some kind of a drag racing game with her boyfriend.
(09:43):
Where was her husband? Long story short? What happens next? Listen?
Speaker 5 (09:47):
Deputies reportedly catch up with the white Mercedes with significant
front end damage a third of a mile from the scene.
Behind the wheel is Rebecca Grossman. A deputy describes finding
the vehicle stopped at the curb, Engrossman saying she didn't
know why her airbag had been triggered. As Grossman speaks
to a nine to one to one operator, she's asked
if she hit someone. Grossman can be heard saying, I
(10:08):
don't know what I hit.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
But isn't it true?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
To Amon Murphy joining us from the acorn, she actually
a riald.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Tried to blame.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
The boyfriend and why was he hiding in the bushes
watching everything?
Speaker 4 (10:22):
That was the whole defense was that the boyfriend's car,
the boyfriend being Scott Erickson, a former Major League Baseball pitcher,
that it was in fact his car that hit the boys.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
First question, Yes, you think I care he was with
e MLB. I don't care.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I don't care who he is, I don't care if
he's Elvis Presley come back from the dead.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Okay, he's hiding in the bushes.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Why why do people hide amon because they're afraid? Okay,
why is he afraid because he knows they've done something wrong?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
That's actually that was part of the defense, the hiding
in the bush's bit and it was a Grossman's daughter
who testified to that. Alexis Grossman said she saw Scott
Erickson hiding in the bushes. The prosecution disputed this, challenged
her account of that evening and the hiding in the
(11:16):
bushes was was no deputy reported or anybody reported seeing
anyone hiding in the bushes throughout the whole investigation. But
as part of the story that cast suspicion on Scott Erickson,
it was said by Rebecca Grossman's lawyers that he hid
in the bushes to watch the investigation and also went
back to confront Alexis Grossman saying, you know, don't tell
(11:40):
anybody about this, you know, threatening her and so on.
That was all part of the defense.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Okay, Well, let me ask you a couple more questions
regarding the boyfriend. Now, is the boyfriend also married like
Rebecca grossmayos I believe he's divorced. Okay, So then no,
I don't care who's cheating on, who, who's with who,
who's getting drunk at lunch. I don't care what they're
(12:04):
doing and their spare time. That's between her and her husband.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
But when it comes to what happened after that, I
care crime stories with Nancy Grace. So that night, that night, tell.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Me aimon the cops come to her car, which is
now disabled because the air bag went off, And what
does she say, I didn't do it with the whole
front end of the car bashed in.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Well, she said that her airbag, she came around the
corner and the airbag went off, and that she didn't
know what she hit. So that that was her position
immediately afterwards, and the deputies had indicated to her that
there was an accident and there were perhaps children involved,
(13:00):
and she, you know, it was her position that she
hadn't seen, you know, what she had in the road
and that she didn't know why. Dera Beg went off.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Straight out to Matthew Mangino, joining US high profile lawyer,
former prosecutor, author of the Executioner's Toll, Get this crimes
arrest Trials appeals last meals and final words of the
executions of forty six people in the US. Okay, you
have me at last meals. The rest of that was
just fluff, that said Matthew Mangino. What is this woman thinking?
(13:35):
You know, first of all, point zero eight is typically
the legal limit throughout across our country.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Point zero eight.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Now, this woman had valium and booze in her system.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I'm going to go back to doctor Gorniack in just
a moment on this.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
But man Gino, why don't we just mix those two together.
Shouldn't the blood alcohol be in hand when your act
also popping pels?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I mean, I don't get it. This woman has everything.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
She and her husband created this wonderful burn clinic that's
done so much good. She's like the nonprofit queen of California.
She's got it all. Designer, this designer that you name it.
Why does she have to get drunk and high on
valume at lunch with her boyfriend and do this?
Speaker 8 (14:33):
Well, Nancy, she's obviously a very selfish person as well.
You know, she's going to use alcohol and valume. She's
going to drive through a residential area at a high
rate to speed, maybe drag racing with her lover as
she goes to her home.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Mangino, what do you mean, maybe drag racing?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Just say it, man.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
The witnesses say, she's weaving back in fourth The boyfriend,
the one they climb, hid in the bushes after the crash.
He's weaving back and forth, two cars, weaving back and
forth in a residential area. Her speed seventy three mph.
I call that drag racing. That's what I call that,
and that's against the law. So why are you so
(15:18):
timid about it? Say it, man, Speak the truth.
Speaker 8 (15:21):
I'm sorry, Nancy.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Oh now you're still apologizing. Don't this woman killed two boys?
She did think about your child at age eight, at
age eleven?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I mean, no shame, no shamman, Gino. Why couldn't we
merge the alcohol with the valume?
Speaker 8 (15:43):
Well, I don't know why. There couldn't be a relation
back test, so we know three hours later she's at
point zero eight. That means that if she hasn't had
any alcohol, which I would assume she wouldn't, you could
relate back. You know, with a toxic cology is to
show what her alcohol level might have been at the
time of the accident, and you mix that with valume.
(16:06):
At least in Pennsylvania where I practice, any drug in
your system that could impair you could result in a
DUI because there's no way of measuring the level of
valume or the level of marijuana to determine whether or
not that you are under the influence. So just any
(16:26):
trace of it in your blood is enough to charge
somebody with driving under Therey.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Matthew, you're a veteran trial lawyer, and I say that
with a great deal of respect, because you know, there's
a lot of lawyers that claim their trial lawyers because
they send interrogatories like written questions to the other side,
and then they write their answers, and then they send them.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Back and they go back.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
I mean, you've been in the courtroom, duking it out,
getting hot, sweaty, dirty, bloody in the courtroom.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Trying a case on both sides. You know what.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
This is what I've learned from my vehicular homicides. Point
zero eight typically put a mail at four drinks. Okay,
point zero eight equals four drinks for an adult, So
she's had four alcoholic drinks.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And I don't mean a beer, I mean hard liquor.
Plus the valuume.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
She's out of her gourd and trying to drive in
her big fat Mercedes at seventy three miles an hour.
You know what, she probably didn't know what she hit.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Matthew, Yeah, she may not have.
Speaker 8 (17:45):
I mean, she is impaired, and she's driving through a
residential neighborhood at a high rate of speed, drag racing
that ultimately, you know that, you know defense that I
don't know what I hit in my airbag deployed and
I continue driving and I never went back to see
(18:06):
what I hit. You know, all adds up to someone
who does know that they did something terribly wrong and
doesn't want to face that.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
In the hours before the crash, Grossman has seen drinking
marguerite as the former Mets and Yankees pitcher Scott Erickson.
Grossman and Rickson were reportedly driving from Julio's restaurant in
separate SUVs. Police said the two sped closely together through
the crosswalk, with Ericson in the lead racing. Ericson is
charged with misdemeanor, but judge orders him to make a
public service announcement about the importance of safe driving with
a teenage audience in mind. His case wrapped in twenty
(18:35):
twenty two. Still Ericson's attorney maintains he wasn't racing or
driving recklessly and had no involvement in the hit and
run that killed the boys. Ericson's SUV shows no sign
of damage.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Okay, his suv shows no sign of damage to the boyfriend.
Hers is bashed in in the front, Yet she says
she didn't do it and tries to blame the boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
The antics don't stop there. The dirty tactics of killer
socialite Rebecca Roastman all to try and get a new
trial go on. She mowed down to little boys while drunk,
and on there they are, and on valium. And as
(19:16):
far as drag racing or not drag racing, listen.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Two cars for racing.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
We believe speed is a factor, alcohol is a factor.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
You are hearing right there, Captain Salvador Bakara from the
La County Sheriff's Department.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
That's our friends at NBCLA four.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
A grown woman, a millionaire, drag racing drunk her Mercedes
joining me.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Audition to Karen Start.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Renowned psychologist is Robin Drake, behavior expert, former FBI special
agent and author of Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI
agent'cy manual for behavior prediction. Also, it's not all about me.
He've got a ton of awesome books. Wow, okay, I've
(20:07):
only got time to put out two of them, Robin Drake,
What is a grown woman married?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
And I'm not the church lady.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
If people want to run around, go go, I'd just
be mad if you didn't. But a grown woman with
everything she could possibly want ever, a family, a lovely family,
a husband, a philanthropist, a mansion, the Mercedes, the clothes.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
The hair, the this, the that. I mean, what is.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
A grown woman drunk on valium, flying at seventy three
mph through a residential neighborhood and mowing down these two boys.
Speaker 9 (20:49):
Well you said she's a grown woman, but she's not.
I mean, our first impressions we get when we hear
the stories like this that fill us her with rage
is exactly what we saw. We saw a drunk teenage
because that's when her development stopped, I think. And she's
chasing happiness through her life, and happiness she thinks is
through materialism, and so she keeps chasing it. She's caught
up in the cult of more to the disease of comparison,
(21:11):
and the tragedy came because of her being a drunk teenager.
It's really plain and simple because all her behaviors from
that point are exactly the same. It's me, me, Me.
Even that letter that she sent to the family that
she wasn't supposed to, I guarantee you if we had
a copy of that, it would be all about her.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Okay, Robin Drake, I'm totally with you, except when you
say she's a junk teenager. Everybody in this studio and
huh what Okay, because that's kind of letting her off
the hook.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
She's not a teenager.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
She's a fifty something year old woman. She's gorgeous. She
has this everything you could possibly want in life, all right,
and calling her even if you think her her development
stopped as a team, it didn't. This woman is at
one charity ball after the next in designer clothes.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Karen Stark, can you help me because I obviously was
not clear in my question to Robert Drink, former FBI
I expected something different from him.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I'm gonna let him think about what he said.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Karen Stark Renow TV radio trauma expert at Karenstark dot com.
Karen joining us today from Manhattan helped me, Karen, what
is it? What the more all your dreams come true,
the more your prayers are answered, the wors she become.
That's completely bast ackwards and then trying to pin it
on the boyfriend, Nancy. She's a narcissist. She's not a teenager.
Speaker 10 (22:34):
I'm sorry to say, but she really is a narcissist
who only thinks about herself. Think about what she said.
Even with the jury, they're not a good jury. Why
are they not a good jury? Because I can already
tell they're not going to be on my side. And
you bet that what she wrote to that family, which
she wasn't supposed to write, was all of that mouse.
(22:54):
She didn't mean it, She couldn't have done it. She
didn't know, and yet she knew. She hit so thing.
I don't know what I hit, but I hit something.
She's totally responsible for what happened.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Karen, Please come down out of your ivory tower for
just one moment. I know she's responsible. I'm saying, what,
why does she do this? What is her behavior?
Speaker 8 (23:20):
Why?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I don't understand it?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Because I have this plat I guess you would call
it sits on our kitchen island. And you know what
it says. It says I remember what I prayed for,
the things I have now, my husband, my family, my
mom is still with me.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Hell, this incredible job, so many blessings.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I see that every single morning.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
But it seems like some people get all these prayers answered,
all these blessings, and they just gobble it up and
keep gobbling it up at everyone else's expense. And even
now that she's convicted, she's trying to get somebody to
get to the judge, to influence the judge in this case,
(24:10):
trying to contact the Gurrrs and Kara Start. I learned
about this as a prosecutor. The defense will send out
their own PI private investigator, and they won't tell the
witness or the gurror or the whoever I work for
the defense. They go, hey, I'm a private investigator working
on the case of Blah, and then they'll try to
get information out of the target. A lot of these
(24:33):
people said, we didn't even know who we were talking to.
They didn't identify they were working for her. Rebecca Grosberg,
I just explain to me what this behavior is even
now trying to manipulate the system.
Speaker 10 (24:49):
I know it's hard to believe Nancy, but she doesn't
care about anyone but herself. Yes, she has everything in
the world, and you're grateful, and I like to think
I am really grateful, But she could care less because
she believes she's entitled to have what she has, and
she's entitled to get away with this and say that
(25:11):
she's innocent and influence the jurors and have it be
all about her, not what she did. She doesn't care
what she did. She's going to make sure that she's
going to get off and be okay.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 6 (25:37):
Prosecutors fear Grossman maybe using her phone privileges to find
someone to get to Judge Joseph Brandolino to convince the
judge to give her a new trial. Prosecutors say the
recorded calls document potential criminal conspiracies, such as requested as
close protected discovery, discussions of various attempts to interfere with
witnesses and their testimony. In one call, Grossman tells her
husband to talk to her ex lover, former major league
(25:59):
pitcher Scott Ericson. On the recording call, February twenty fifth,
Rebecca Grossman tells her husband to quote call Scott ericson
and tell him to get on a video and that
he needs to confess.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Aimon Murphy, an investigative reporter writer for the Acorn News,
aimen again, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
What did I just hear?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
She actually is trying to suborn perjury and nobody's doing
anything trying to get the boyfriend to make.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
A video or what catch him on video.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Or record him on the phone, trying to get him
to claim he's the one that mowed down the little boys.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
That's suborning perjury.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Well, the judge addressed that in court. His position was
they weren't asking Scott Erickson to do anything that they
didn't think was true.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
That's what the judge said.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Wait wait, whit whit whit whit Wait wait hold on, amen,
I'm having a hard time ingesting what you're just saying.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Is this the same judge that sat through the jury trial?
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Yes, same judge.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Okay, so he knows that it was Rebecca Grossman that
mowed down the two little boys.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Yes, no, well he knows that that was what the
jury found.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
He didn't see that picture that I just saw of
the front end of her white Mercedes bashed in from a.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Little boy getting run down. He didn't see that.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
He saw that, and more he heard from experts talking
about how the impact matched the position of the boys,
even how the pattern on the grill matched wounds on
one of the boys.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
So he heard all about that. Okay, I'm going to
ask a tough question, Amon Murphy. So the judge saw that.
The judge heard the testimony. The judge, you noticed what
the jury said.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
But this judge actually stated with a straight face, well,
trying to get her boyfriend to say.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
He really ran the boys down, that's not.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Really suborning perjury because she thinks they think it's true.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
It's not true. It is suborning perjury. Why is this
judge beaming over.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Backwards, contorting the facts and the law and Rebecca Grossmand's favor.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Why, Aimen, I.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Mean, I can't speculate about, you know, what's going on
in the judge's head. I think throughout the process that
I've seen, he's been at pains to be very even
handed in the sense of ensuring a process that is
totally fair and you know, would hold up on appeal
(28:29):
to be really frank, because now we do have emotion
for a new trial, which is not an appeal, but
it is an attempt to question the process that led
to the conviction, and all of it is being questioned
by her new lawyers. So the judge, I think, wanted
to make sure all the boxes were checked, you know,
all the eyes dotted, all the tea's crossed.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Well, is it true?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Also, Aimon Murphy from the Acorn that he kind of
wrote off all of her behavior.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And this is not just her.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Somebody's on the other end of that phone, that jail
phone that is recording FYI, somebody's going along with it,
aid a betting, encouraging her, responding to her. That is
what we call under the law, Matthew Mangino, a conspiracy
to commit a crime when you have someone colluding and
(29:22):
aiding and a betting encouraging that's conspiring to do a
bad thing. This woman is convicted of a double vehicular
homicide and now she's trying to get her ex lover
to go on video and say okay, I did it.
That is the borning perjury, Mangino. Why is a judge
(29:44):
dancing around it like a ballet artist.
Speaker 8 (29:46):
Well, The first thing that's most appalling is that she
was able to contact the victims in this case. Normally
after conviction, and even when you're on bell there's a
no contact order, you can't reach out contact the victims
as a defendant directly. The issue with regard to talking
(30:06):
to jurors, that's common. Private investigator is going to talk
to jurors.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Unless they're trying to get them to claim misdoing, like
an Alex murdog and trying to get a new try.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
And you think that's okay. No, it's not okay.
Speaker 8 (30:18):
But it's not necessarily inappropriate to reach out to jurors
after a case. But what is inappropriate and illegal is
to try to influence the outcome of your appeal by
number one, trying to seek someone to talk to the judge.
Number two, by trying to influence witnesses in some way
(30:39):
and trying to have someone confess that you know is
not guilty, have that person confess to the crime. I
think it's a wild idea and no one's going to
do it.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Still suborning perjury.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Can you just say yes, no, Matthew Mangino, I don't
know why am I saying inappropriate it's more than in
a it's suborning perjury. You're trying to get someone to
lie about what happened and submit it, show it to
the court.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Matthew Mangino.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
The jury has spoken, the judge knows what happened, and
now this woman is trying to get a new trial
based on perjured testimony.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Is that not suborning perjury? Matthew You, well, it would be.
Speaker 8 (31:26):
But Nancy, the idea here, and this is where I
think the judge is talking maybe about being naive. Do
you think someone is going to come forward and confess
to killing two children because your husband?
Speaker 1 (31:38):
No, I don't you know what I think.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
I think that some people for the right amount of
money a million dollars and knowing that they would be
acquitted at trial if the boyfriend went on trial.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Let's just get real. What about a drake.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
If the boyfriend goes on trial, If the boyfriend does
this video that she's asking him to do, and he
just goes on trial, okay, or her case gets reversed
because of it new evidence, he's going to get acquitted
because all his lawyers got to do is say, hey,
they already convicted her. Siam and they'll let him go too.
(32:17):
Under those circumstances, he might do it.
Speaker 9 (32:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Maybe. And I don't like any of this having to
do with the judge. I don't like any of it
having to.
Speaker 9 (32:25):
Do with the fact that hal Com it took them
three hours for law enforcement to give her to blog
alcohol test. I just don't like the look of all
the confirmation bias in her favor going on here. So
I'm I don't put it by it. I don't think
it was naivitate at all. I think it was completely
her trying to subvert the system for her own benefit.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
I'll tell you my theory.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
My theory is Robin Drake that Rebecca Grossman and her
husband are wealthy.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
They're millionaires with high social standing versus the scanders.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Who are nowhere, nowhere in money, in power, in prestige
that the Grossmans have, and so everybody is bending over
backwards to help the Grossman's. She is behind bars, trying
(33:32):
to get her friends to influence the judge, trying to
reach the jurors to do what recan't say that they
that was not a true verdict, change their minds post
a verdict, trying to suborn perjury, and nothing is happening.
In fact, the judge actually calls her, quote naive, help me, Dreek,
(33:56):
this is BS.
Speaker 9 (33:58):
I totally agree, Nancy, And whenever we see a behavior
like this, it's very rarely the first time the behavior
has happened. And so I think they just have in
this area with that kind of affluence, they probably have
a reputation and a lifetime of reps, as I call them,
of doing just this kind of thing, having favoritism towards
this part of society. And I think it's incredibly unjust
(34:19):
two little boys who were murdered by her, complete narcissistic negligence.
Speaker 6 (34:25):
When Rebecca Grossman adds defense attorney James Furtis to our
team the prosecution of Jack's over a possible conflict of interest,
as Spurtis currently represents Diana Taran from the Los Angeles
District Attorney's Office. Tiranas charged with eleven felonies for allegedly
misusing confidential law enforcement records, but before she was charged
with those crimes, she oversaw the prosecutors Engrossman's second degree
(34:48):
murder trial. Because of this, the DA reassigned the prosecutors
from the case due to a potential conflict of interest
straight out.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
To a special guest joining us Aimon from Acorn Murphy.
What exactly is the alleged conflict of interest that could
result in a new trial for Rebecca Grossman.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
Well, it's not that the conflict would result in a
new trial. It's more that it could be an issue
on appeal. The conflict is that James Burtis, her new lawyer,
also represents Diana Turan, who was an assistant district attorney
supervising the prosecution of Rebecca Grossman. So at first the
prosecutors filed emotion saying this is a potential conflict because
(35:33):
he's representing a defendant who was prosecuted by a team
that she oversaw. Then they looked into it further and
they filed emotion earlier this month saying there's an actual
conflict here because when James Burtis prepares a motion for
a new trial, one argument he might make is prosecutorial
misconduct that would require him impugning the work of his
(35:56):
other client. So that's a conflict for her Diana Turan.
And if he doesn't do that on appeal, Rebecca Grossman
could claim, well, he didn't do that because he was
representing Diana Turenn, and he didn't want to call her
work into question.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
The judge has just ruled there is no conflict of
interest in Grossman's case after she hired a lawyer who
also That lawyer also represents a woman who used to
work for the DA's office, and that woman oversaw the trial.
(36:32):
So there is a lawyer that represents a form a prosecutor.
That prosecutor has now caught some charges. That prosecutor worked
on Grossman's prosecution. Okay, So Grossman goes and hires the
lawyer for the prosecutor. That's her decision. She knows about
(37:01):
the conflict and she's waiving the conflict by hiring that lawyer.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
The judge didn't find an actual conflict. He did have
her wave the potential conflict so that it won't come
up as an appeal issue. The charges against Diana Turenn
were announced about a month after James Burtis became attorney
of record for Rebecca Grossman, so she was not charged
(37:26):
at that point when he joined Rebecca Grossman's team, but
his firm had represented her in the past in another matter,
and the judge said, you know, these cases are not related,
so we don't have an actual conflict, but out of
an abundance of caution, we'll have the defendant waive this
as a potential issue so she can't bring it up
down the road.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Just more heartache for the victim's parents. We wait as
justice unfolds, and we stopped to remember American hero Deputy
share of David Bosker, shot and killed in the line
of duty. Deputy Bosker, a US Marine veteran twenty one
(38:08):
years in law enforcement, survived by grieving wife Brenda and
stepson John. American hero Deputy Sheriff David Bosker. Thank you
to all of our guests for being with us tonight,
but especially to you for joining with us. Nancy Gray
(38:28):
signing off, good night friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace breaking news.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Tonight, a young mom and dad walking with their children
on a stroll in the neighborhood when suddenly, out of nowhere,
a married millionaire socialite comes flying around the curve after
a boozy date with her boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Drag racing, Yes, drag racing.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Mom tries desperately to save all of her children, risking
her own life to save them, but she could not
reach two of her little boys. Tonight, after mowing down
two little boys dead and then fleeing the seed of
the crash, only stopping when her airbags deploy on her
(00:47):
Mercedes and it literally stopped. Now am I actually hearing
reports she is tampering with the jury. Good evening, I'm
Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
with us.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Two SUVs are speeding toward a crosswalk where the Iskander
family is crossing. Nancy Askander says the cars are zigzagging
with each other as if they were playing or racing.
The drivers don't stop at the intersection, not even when
two children are hit. Nancy A. Skander says the cars
didn't stop even with her eleven year old son Mark
(01:25):
on the hood of the car he has found two
hundred and fifty four feet away. Her eight year old son,
Jacob is tossed fifty feet and is lying near the curb.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
You know, I've covered a lot of the hicular homicides.
I have prosecuted vehicular homicides, and I don't believe I
have ever seen a case where a human was thrown
two one hundred and fifty feet the other child thrownd
fifty feet That is nearly the length of a football field.
(01:58):
There's been a lot of back and forth about whether
she was drag racing or not.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Does it matter? After drinking and reportedly.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Using drugs on some boozy date with her boyfriend, this
multi millionaire woman, She's got everything, Why does she have
to do this? And then apparently the athlete boyfriend she
was canondling with goes and hides in the bushes and sees,
oh yeah, him, him, goes in highs to see what unfold.
(02:32):
Did anybody go out and try to save the boys?
Did they even stop? No, they didn't. And now is
this real? She's actually trying to get to the judge,
trying to get friends to talk the judge into a
new trial, trying to reach out to giors to say
(02:53):
what what, trying to get a new trial, and even
contacting the boys mother and father with me an all
star panel to make sense of what we know right now.
But first, to Amen Murphy joining us with the Acorn News,
Aimen what first?
Speaker 1 (03:14):
I'm going to get back to.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
The actual lowing down the two little boys and then
continuing to go into your airbags, deploy and stop your mercedes.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
I'll get back to that.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
But what can you tell me about this woman who
the judge amazingly says, Oh, she's just naive? Really, what
can you tell me about them trying to reach the
mom and dad of the little boy victims.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
Well, she sent them a letter after she was convicted,
and they had previously expressed a desire not to be
contacted by her.
Speaker 5 (03:46):
Well, aim, when you're exactly correct. Listen, Nancy and Kareem
Eskinder endured the Denzil. They're two boys hitting killed by
social aite Rebecca Grossman speeding through the streets. Now, they
claim Grossman is writing them from jail after receiving a
love from grosswand on March thirteenth, the Eskinders reach out
to the county, asking.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Officials to put a stop to it. You know, very curious.
Do we know aimon what she's writing about?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Now? This is after the victim's parents specifically say go away, woman,
leave us alone. Yes, she writes them to say what
she had a chance to apologize already.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
We're not sure what the letter said. It hasn't been
made public. The judge did order her not to have
any more contact, so we don't know at this point
what she said to to Nancy and Kareema Scander.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Take a listen to how this young mom describes the
moment she finds son, Jacob.
Speaker 6 (04:49):
His mother described finding Jacob near the curb. Dori say
he was thrown about fifty feet in the collision. She
said it looked like he was sleeping, and she put
her ear to his chest and heard his heart beating.
He was taking to the hospital, where he was pronounced
dead a few hours later. Mark was two hundred and
fifty four feet away, a distance a deputy who specializes
in crash incidents previously testified was the farthest he has
known a human to be tossed in a crash. His
(05:11):
mother said his body was crumpled and he had blood
pouring out of his nose. He was pronounced dead of
the scene straight.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Back to Aman Murphy joining us from the acorn. Tell
me about what happened the day that these two little
boys were mowed down by socialite Rebecca Grossman. Well.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
It was September twenty twenty and the family had gone
out to take a walk along the lake in Westlake
Village where they lived. It was covid, so they were
out getting some air. Nancy Ascander and her three sons
and went to cross the street towards the lake. Her
husband and their baby daughter had proceeded down the street further,
(05:51):
so they were separate at that point. While Nancy and
her sons were crossing the street, Nancy was in front
with her youngest boy, and the two older boys, Mark
and Jacob were behind them in the crosswalk. As Nancy
got towards the curb in the second two lanes of traffic,
(06:14):
because it's a four lane divided road, two SUVs came
roaring up the road, a black and a white. The
black was in front. She said they were zigzagging as
if they were playing or racing. She grabbed her youngest
boy and dove out of the way of the first car,
the black car, and then the white car went through,
(06:35):
and she turned and saw that Mark and Jacob were gone.
And Mark had been struck and was fifty feet forward,
and Jacob was sorry. Mark was two hundred and fifty
feet and Jacob was fifty feet and Jacob died at
(06:57):
the hospital and Mark died at the scene.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
An ulstar panel and makes sense of what we know
right now to doctor jan Gorniac joining us, Doctor Gorniac,
Board certified forensic pathologist, renowned medical examiner for a medical
examiner Clark County, that's Vegas. Doctor Garniac has always such
an honor to have you on with us. Thank you
(07:21):
for taking time to be with us and address this case.
For a child to be thrown two hundred and fifty
four feet through the air, another child fifty feet one
of them was on the hood of the car for
a period of time, the internal injuries had to be horrific.
Speaker 7 (07:45):
Yes, just looking at the vehicle, you see how much
damage is to the vehicle, and that's from impact to
the children, you know, horrifically. So I say that Jacob
was the one that was to the curb, Do I
have that correct? And so and he was, and so
(08:06):
he his mom Unfortunately this is so Sad could still
hear his heart beating and was taken to the hospital
where he was later pronounced dead.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
So he I'm.
Speaker 7 (08:18):
Just looking at the the height difference. So unlike an
adult getting hit by a car, right, you think more
lower impact to the body. So the height of these kids,
you're thinking more chest impact and more head impact. So Jacob,
who was close, he probably you know, didn't fly up
(08:41):
onto the hood like Mark did, and that's why he
traveled more. So he probably got more depending on what
part of the suv hit him. He could have been
tossed by like the front corner panel and tossed. Meanwhile,
Mark got up on the hood and you can actually
see the indentation on the hood, and then was carried
(09:03):
by the speed and then when he was tossed off,
he went that far. So I'm surmising head trauma, definitely,
chest trauma, internal injuries, fractures, multiple, multiple injuries. And unfortunately,
obviously this is the story that we're talking about today.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Taking a look at these two little boys out walking
with their mom and dad and sibling in their neighborhood
and they never make it back home. Why because Rebecca
Grossman a wealthy socialite, plows them down with her Mercedes,
playing some kind of a drag racing game with her boyfriend.
(09:43):
Where was her husband? Long story short? What happens next? Listen?
Speaker 5 (09:47):
Deputies reportedly catch up with the white Mercedes with significant
front end damage a third of a mile from the scene.
Behind the wheel is Rebecca Grossman. A deputy describes finding
the vehicle stopped at the curb, Engrossman saying she didn't
know why her airbag had been triggered. As Grossman speaks
to a nine to one to one operator, she's asked
if she hit someone. Grossman can be heard saying, I
(10:08):
don't know what I hit.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
But isn't it true?
Speaker 2 (10:10):
To Amon Murphy joining us from the acorn, she actually
a riald.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Tried to blame.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
The boyfriend and why was he hiding in the bushes
watching everything?
Speaker 4 (10:22):
That was the whole defense was that the boyfriend's car,
the boyfriend being Scott Erickson, a former Major League Baseball pitcher,
that it was in fact his car that hit the boys.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
First question, Yes, you think I care he was with
e MLB. I don't care.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I don't care who he is, I don't care if
he's Elvis Presley come back from the dead.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Okay, he's hiding in the bushes.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Why why do people hide amon because they're afraid? Okay,
why is he afraid because he knows they've done something wrong?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
That's actually that was part of the defense, the hiding
in the bush's bit and it was a Grossman's daughter
who testified to that. Alexis Grossman said she saw Scott
Erickson hiding in the bushes. The prosecution disputed this, challenged
her account of that evening and the hiding in the
(11:16):
bushes was was no deputy reported or anybody reported seeing
anyone hiding in the bushes throughout the whole investigation. But
as part of the story that cast suspicion on Scott Erickson,
it was said by Rebecca Grossman's lawyers that he hid
in the bushes to watch the investigation and also went
back to confront Alexis Grossman saying, you know, don't tell
(11:40):
anybody about this, you know, threatening her and so on.
That was all part of the defense.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Okay, Well, let me ask you a couple more questions
regarding the boyfriend. Now, is the boyfriend also married like
Rebecca grossmayos I believe he's divorced. Okay, So then no,
I don't care who's cheating on, who, who's with who,
who's getting drunk at lunch. I don't care what they're
(12:04):
doing and their spare time. That's between her and her husband.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
But when it comes to what happened after that, I
care crime stories with Nancy Grace. So that night, that night, tell.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Me aimon the cops come to her car, which is
now disabled because the air bag went off, And what
does she say, I didn't do it with the whole
front end of the car bashed in.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Well, she said that her airbag, she came around the
corner and the airbag went off, and that she didn't
know what she hit. So that that was her position
immediately afterwards, and the deputies had indicated to her that
there was an accident and there were perhaps children involved,
(13:00):
and she, you know, it was her position that she
hadn't seen, you know, what she had in the road
and that she didn't know why. Dera Beg went off.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Straight out to Matthew Mangino, joining US high profile lawyer,
former prosecutor, author of the Executioner's Toll, Get this crimes
arrest Trials appeals last meals and final words of the
executions of forty six people in the US. Okay, you
have me at last meals. The rest of that was
just fluff, that said Matthew Mangino. What is this woman thinking?
(13:35):
You know, first of all, point zero eight is typically
the legal limit throughout across our country.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Point zero eight.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Now, this woman had valium and booze in her system.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
I'm going to go back to doctor Gorniack in just
a moment on this.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
But man Gino, why don't we just mix those two together.
Shouldn't the blood alcohol be in hand when your act
also popping pels?
Speaker 1 (14:04):
I mean, I don't get it. This woman has everything.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
She and her husband created this wonderful burn clinic that's
done so much good. She's like the nonprofit queen of California.
She's got it all. Designer, this designer that you name it.
Why does she have to get drunk and high on
valume at lunch with her boyfriend and do this?
Speaker 8 (14:33):
Well, Nancy, she's obviously a very selfish person as well.
You know, she's going to use alcohol and valume. She's
going to drive through a residential area at a high
rate to speed, maybe drag racing with her lover as
she goes to her home.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Mangino, what do you mean, maybe drag racing?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Just say it, man.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
The witnesses say, she's weaving back in fourth The boyfriend,
the one they climb, hid in the bushes after the crash.
He's weaving back and forth, two cars, weaving back and
forth in a residential area. Her speed seventy three mph.
I call that drag racing. That's what I call that,
and that's against the law. So why are you so
(15:18):
timid about it? Say it, man, Speak the truth.
Speaker 8 (15:21):
I'm sorry, Nancy.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Oh now you're still apologizing. Don't this woman killed two boys?
She did think about your child at age eight, at
age eleven?
Speaker 1 (15:35):
I mean, no shame, no shamman, Gino. Why couldn't we
merge the alcohol with the valume?
Speaker 8 (15:43):
Well, I don't know why. There couldn't be a relation
back test, so we know three hours later she's at
point zero eight. That means that if she hasn't had
any alcohol, which I would assume she wouldn't, you could
relate back. You know, with a toxic cology is to
show what her alcohol level might have been at the
time of the accident, and you mix that with valume.
(16:06):
At least in Pennsylvania where I practice, any drug in
your system that could impair you could result in a
DUI because there's no way of measuring the level of
valume or the level of marijuana to determine whether or
not that you are under the influence. So just any
(16:26):
trace of it in your blood is enough to charge
somebody with driving under Therey.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Matthew, you're a veteran trial lawyer, and I say that
with a great deal of respect, because you know, there's
a lot of lawyers that claim their trial lawyers because
they send interrogatories like written questions to the other side,
and then they write their answers, and then they send them.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Back and they go back.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
I mean, you've been in the courtroom, duking it out,
getting hot, sweaty, dirty, bloody in the courtroom.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Trying a case on both sides. You know what.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
This is what I've learned from my vehicular homicides. Point
zero eight typically put a mail at four drinks. Okay,
point zero eight equals four drinks for an adult, So
she's had four alcoholic drinks.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And I don't mean a beer, I mean hard liquor.
Plus the valuume.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
She's out of her gourd and trying to drive in
her big fat Mercedes at seventy three miles an hour.
You know what, she probably didn't know what she hit.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Matthew, Yeah, she may not have.
Speaker 8 (17:45):
I mean, she is impaired, and she's driving through a
residential neighborhood at a high rate of speed, drag racing
that ultimately, you know that, you know defense that I
don't know what I hit in my airbag deployed and
I continue driving and I never went back to see
(18:06):
what I hit. You know, all adds up to someone
who does know that they did something terribly wrong and
doesn't want to face that.
Speaker 6 (18:13):
In the hours before the crash, Grossman has seen drinking
marguerite as the former Mets and Yankees pitcher Scott Erickson.
Grossman and Rickson were reportedly driving from Julio's restaurant in
separate SUVs. Police said the two sped closely together through
the crosswalk, with Ericson in the lead racing. Ericson is
charged with misdemeanor, but judge orders him to make a
public service announcement about the importance of safe driving with
a teenage audience in mind. His case wrapped in twenty
(18:35):
twenty two. Still Ericson's attorney maintains he wasn't racing or
driving recklessly and had no involvement in the hit and
run that killed the boys. Ericson's SUV shows no sign
of damage.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Okay, his suv shows no sign of damage to the boyfriend.
Hers is bashed in in the front, Yet she says
she didn't do it and tries to blame the boyfriend.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
The antics don't stop there. The dirty tactics of killer
socialite Rebecca Roastman all to try and get a new
trial go on. She mowed down to little boys while drunk,
and on there they are, and on valium. And as
(19:16):
far as drag racing or not drag racing, listen.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Two cars for racing.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
We believe speed is a factor, alcohol is a factor.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
You are hearing right there, Captain Salvador Bakara from the
La County Sheriff's Department.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
That's our friends at NBCLA four.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
A grown woman, a millionaire, drag racing drunk her Mercedes
joining me.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
Audition to Karen Start.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Renowned psychologist is Robin Drake, behavior expert, former FBI special
agent and author of Sizing People Up, a veteran FBI
agent'cy manual for behavior prediction. Also, it's not all about me.
He've got a ton of awesome books. Wow, okay, I've
(20:07):
only got time to put out two of them, Robin Drake,
What is a grown woman married?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
And I'm not the church lady.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
If people want to run around, go go, I'd just
be mad if you didn't. But a grown woman with
everything she could possibly want ever, a family, a lovely family,
a husband, a philanthropist, a mansion, the Mercedes, the clothes.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
The hair, the this, the that. I mean, what is.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
A grown woman drunk on valium, flying at seventy three
mph through a residential neighborhood and mowing down these two boys.
Speaker 9 (20:49):
Well you said she's a grown woman, but she's not.
I mean, our first impressions we get when we hear
the stories like this that fill us her with rage
is exactly what we saw. We saw a drunk teenage
because that's when her development stopped, I think. And she's
chasing happiness through her life, and happiness she thinks is
through materialism, and so she keeps chasing it. She's caught
up in the cult of more to the disease of comparison,
(21:11):
and the tragedy came because of her being a drunk teenager.
It's really plain and simple because all her behaviors from
that point are exactly the same. It's me, me, Me.
Even that letter that she sent to the family that
she wasn't supposed to, I guarantee you if we had
a copy of that, it would be all about her.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
Okay, Robin Drake, I'm totally with you, except when you
say she's a junk teenager. Everybody in this studio and
huh what Okay, because that's kind of letting her off
the hook.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
She's not a teenager.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
She's a fifty something year old woman. She's gorgeous. She
has this everything you could possibly want in life, all right,
and calling her even if you think her her development
stopped as a team, it didn't. This woman is at
one charity ball after the next in designer clothes.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Karen Stark, can you help me because I obviously was
not clear in my question to Robert Drink, former FBI
I expected something different from him.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I'm gonna let him think about what he said.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Karen Stark Renow TV radio trauma expert at Karenstark dot com.
Karen joining us today from Manhattan helped me, Karen, what
is it? What the more all your dreams come true,
the more your prayers are answered, the wors she become.
That's completely bast ackwards and then trying to pin it
on the boyfriend, Nancy. She's a narcissist. She's not a teenager.
Speaker 10 (22:34):
I'm sorry to say, but she really is a narcissist
who only thinks about herself. Think about what she said.
Even with the jury, they're not a good jury. Why
are they not a good jury? Because I can already
tell they're not going to be on my side. And
you bet that what she wrote to that family, which
she wasn't supposed to write, was all of that mouse.
(22:54):
She didn't mean it, She couldn't have done it. She
didn't know, and yet she knew. She hit so thing.
I don't know what I hit, but I hit something.
She's totally responsible for what happened.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Karen, Please come down out of your ivory tower for
just one moment. I know she's responsible. I'm saying, what,
why does she do this? What is her behavior?
Speaker 8 (23:20):
Why?
Speaker 1 (23:20):
I don't understand it?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Because I have this plat I guess you would call
it sits on our kitchen island. And you know what
it says. It says I remember what I prayed for,
the things I have now, my husband, my family, my
mom is still with me.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
You know.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Hell, this incredible job, so many blessings.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I see that every single morning.
Speaker 2 (23:49):
But it seems like some people get all these prayers answered,
all these blessings, and they just gobble it up and
keep gobbling it up at everyone else's expense. And even
now that she's convicted, she's trying to get somebody to
get to the judge, to influence the judge in this case,
(24:10):
trying to contact the Gurrrs and Kara Start. I learned
about this as a prosecutor. The defense will send out
their own PI private investigator, and they won't tell the
witness or the gurror or the whoever I work for
the defense. They go, hey, I'm a private investigator working
on the case of Blah, and then they'll try to
get information out of the target. A lot of these
(24:33):
people said, we didn't even know who we were talking to.
They didn't identify they were working for her. Rebecca Grosberg,
I just explain to me what this behavior is even
now trying to manipulate the system.
Speaker 10 (24:49):
I know it's hard to believe Nancy, but she doesn't
care about anyone but herself. Yes, she has everything in
the world, and you're grateful, and I like to think
I am really grateful, But she could care less because
she believes she's entitled to have what she has, and
she's entitled to get away with this and say that
(25:11):
she's innocent and influence the jurors and have it be
all about her, not what she did. She doesn't care
what she did. She's going to make sure that she's
going to get off and be okay.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 6 (25:37):
Prosecutors fear Grossman maybe using her phone privileges to find
someone to get to Judge Joseph Brandolino to convince the
judge to give her a new trial. Prosecutors say the
recorded calls document potential criminal conspiracies, such as requested as
close protected discovery, discussions of various attempts to interfere with
witnesses and their testimony. In one call, Grossman tells her
husband to talk to her ex lover, former major league
(25:59):
pitcher Scott Ericson. On the recording call, February twenty fifth,
Rebecca Grossman tells her husband to quote call Scott ericson
and tell him to get on a video and that
he needs to confess.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Aimon Murphy, an investigative reporter writer for the Acorn News,
aimen again, thank you for being with us.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
What did I just hear?
Speaker 2 (26:19):
She actually is trying to suborn perjury and nobody's doing
anything trying to get the boyfriend to make.
Speaker 1 (26:29):
A video or what catch him on video.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Or record him on the phone, trying to get him
to claim he's the one that mowed down the little boys.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
That's suborning perjury.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
Well, the judge addressed that in court. His position was
they weren't asking Scott Erickson to do anything that they
didn't think was true.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
That's what the judge said.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Wait wait, whit whit whit whit Wait wait hold on, amen,
I'm having a hard time ingesting what you're just saying.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Is this the same judge that sat through the jury trial?
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Yes, same judge.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Okay, so he knows that it was Rebecca Grossman that
mowed down the two little boys.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
Yes, no, well he knows that that was what the
jury found.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
He didn't see that picture that I just saw of
the front end of her white Mercedes bashed in from a.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Little boy getting run down. He didn't see that.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
He saw that, and more he heard from experts talking
about how the impact matched the position of the boys,
even how the pattern on the grill matched wounds on
one of the boys.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
So he heard all about that. Okay, I'm going to
ask a tough question, Amon Murphy. So the judge saw that.
The judge heard the testimony. The judge, you noticed what
the jury said.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
But this judge actually stated with a straight face, well,
trying to get her boyfriend to say.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
He really ran the boys down, that's not.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Really suborning perjury because she thinks they think it's true.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
It's not true. It is suborning perjury. Why is this
judge beaming over.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Backwards, contorting the facts and the law and Rebecca Grossmand's favor.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Why, Aimen, I.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Mean, I can't speculate about, you know, what's going on
in the judge's head. I think throughout the process that
I've seen, he's been at pains to be very even
handed in the sense of ensuring a process that is
totally fair and you know, would hold up on appeal
(28:29):
to be really frank, because now we do have emotion
for a new trial, which is not an appeal, but
it is an attempt to question the process that led
to the conviction, and all of it is being questioned
by her new lawyers. So the judge, I think, wanted
to make sure all the boxes were checked, you know,
all the eyes dotted, all the tea's crossed.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Well, is it true?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Also, Aimon Murphy from the Acorn that he kind of
wrote off all of her behavior.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And this is not just her.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Somebody's on the other end of that phone, that jail
phone that is recording FYI, somebody's going along with it,
aid a betting, encouraging her, responding to her. That is
what we call under the law, Matthew Mangino, a conspiracy
to commit a crime when you have someone colluding and
(29:22):
aiding and a betting encouraging that's conspiring to do a
bad thing. This woman is convicted of a double vehicular
homicide and now she's trying to get her ex lover
to go on video and say okay, I did it.
That is the borning perjury, Mangino. Why is a judge
(29:44):
dancing around it like a ballet artist.
Speaker 8 (29:46):
Well, The first thing that's most appalling is that she
was able to contact the victims in this case. Normally
after conviction, and even when you're on bell there's a
no contact order, you can't reach out contact the victims
as a defendant directly. The issue with regard to talking
(30:06):
to jurors, that's common. Private investigator is going to talk
to jurors.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Unless they're trying to get them to claim misdoing, like
an Alex murdog and trying to get a new try.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
And you think that's okay. No, it's not okay.
Speaker 8 (30:18):
But it's not necessarily inappropriate to reach out to jurors
after a case. But what is inappropriate and illegal is
to try to influence the outcome of your appeal by
number one, trying to seek someone to talk to the judge.
Number two, by trying to influence witnesses in some way
(30:39):
and trying to have someone confess that you know is
not guilty, have that person confess to the crime. I
think it's a wild idea and no one's going to
do it.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Still suborning perjury.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Can you just say yes, no, Matthew Mangino, I don't
know why am I saying inappropriate it's more than in
a it's suborning perjury. You're trying to get someone to
lie about what happened and submit it, show it to
the court.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Matthew Mangino.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
The jury has spoken, the judge knows what happened, and
now this woman is trying to get a new trial
based on perjured testimony.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Is that not suborning perjury? Matthew You, well, it would be.
Speaker 8 (31:26):
But Nancy, the idea here, and this is where I
think the judge is talking maybe about being naive. Do
you think someone is going to come forward and confess
to killing two children because your husband?
Speaker 1 (31:38):
No, I don't you know what I think.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
I think that some people for the right amount of
money a million dollars and knowing that they would be
acquitted at trial if the boyfriend went on trial.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Let's just get real. What about a drake.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
If the boyfriend goes on trial, If the boyfriend does
this video that she's asking him to do, and he
just goes on trial, okay, or her case gets reversed
because of it new evidence, he's going to get acquitted
because all his lawyers got to do is say, hey,
they already convicted her. Siam and they'll let him go too.
(32:17):
Under those circumstances, he might do it.
Speaker 9 (32:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Maybe. And I don't like any of this having to
do with the judge. I don't like any of it
having to.
Speaker 9 (32:25):
Do with the fact that hal Com it took them
three hours for law enforcement to give her to blog
alcohol test. I just don't like the look of all
the confirmation bias in her favor going on here. So
I'm I don't put it by it. I don't think
it was naivitate at all. I think it was completely
her trying to subvert the system for her own benefit.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
I'll tell you my theory.
Speaker 2 (32:46):
My theory is Robin Drake that Rebecca Grossman and her
husband are wealthy.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
They're millionaires with high social standing versus the scanders.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Who are nowhere, nowhere in money, in power, in prestige
that the Grossmans have, and so everybody is bending over
backwards to help the Grossman's. She is behind bars, trying
(33:32):
to get her friends to influence the judge, trying to
reach the jurors to do what recan't say that they
that was not a true verdict, change their minds post
a verdict, trying to suborn perjury, and nothing is happening.
In fact, the judge actually calls her, quote naive, help me, Dreek,
(33:56):
this is BS.
Speaker 9 (33:58):
I totally agree, Nancy, And whenever we see a behavior
like this, it's very rarely the first time the behavior
has happened. And so I think they just have in
this area with that kind of affluence, they probably have
a reputation and a lifetime of reps, as I call them,
of doing just this kind of thing, having favoritism towards
this part of society. And I think it's incredibly unjust
(34:19):
two little boys who were murdered by her, complete narcissistic negligence.
Speaker 6 (34:25):
When Rebecca Grossman adds defense attorney James Furtis to our
team the prosecution of Jack's over a possible conflict of interest,
as Spurtis currently represents Diana Taran from the Los Angeles
District Attorney's Office. Tiranas charged with eleven felonies for allegedly
misusing confidential law enforcement records, but before she was charged
with those crimes, she oversaw the prosecutors Engrossman's second degree
(34:48):
murder trial. Because of this, the DA reassigned the prosecutors
from the case due to a potential conflict of interest
straight out.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
To a special guest joining us Aimon from Acorn Murphy.
What exactly is the alleged conflict of interest that could
result in a new trial for Rebecca Grossman.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
Well, it's not that the conflict would result in a
new trial. It's more that it could be an issue
on appeal. The conflict is that James Burtis, her new lawyer,
also represents Diana Turan, who was an assistant district attorney
supervising the prosecution of Rebecca Grossman. So at first the
prosecutors filed emotion saying this is a potential conflict because
(35:33):
he's representing a defendant who was prosecuted by a team
that she oversaw. Then they looked into it further and
they filed emotion earlier this month saying there's an actual
conflict here because when James Burtis prepares a motion for
a new trial, one argument he might make is prosecutorial
misconduct that would require him impugning the work of his
(35:56):
other client. So that's a conflict for her Diana Turan.
And if he doesn't do that on appeal, Rebecca Grossman
could claim, well, he didn't do that because he was
representing Diana Turenn, and he didn't want to call her
work into question.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
The judge has just ruled there is no conflict of
interest in Grossman's case after she hired a lawyer who
also That lawyer also represents a woman who used to
work for the DA's office, and that woman oversaw the trial.
(36:32):
So there is a lawyer that represents a form a prosecutor.
That prosecutor has now caught some charges. That prosecutor worked
on Grossman's prosecution. Okay, So Grossman goes and hires the
lawyer for the prosecutor. That's her decision. She knows about
(37:01):
the conflict and she's waiving the conflict by hiring that lawyer.
Speaker 1 (37:05):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
The judge didn't find an actual conflict. He did have
her wave the potential conflict so that it won't come
up as an appeal issue. The charges against Diana Turenn
were announced about a month after James Burtis became attorney
of record for Rebecca Grossman, so she was not charged
(37:26):
at that point when he joined Rebecca Grossman's team, but
his firm had represented her in the past in another matter,
and the judge said, you know, these cases are not related,
so we don't have an actual conflict, but out of
an abundance of caution, we'll have the defendant waive this
as a potential issue so she can't bring it up
down the road.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Just more heartache for the victim's parents. We wait as
justice unfolds, and we stopped to remember American hero Deputy
share of David Bosker, shot and killed in the line
of duty. Deputy Bosker, a US Marine veteran twenty one
(38:08):
years in law enforcement, survived by grieving wife Brenda and
stepson John. American hero Deputy Sheriff David Bosker. Thank you
to all of our guests for being with us tonight,
but especially to you for joining with us. Nancy Gray
(38:28):
signing off, good night friend,
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