September 15, 2023 • 39 mins
Eight-year-old Gretchen Harrington leaves home, walking to vacation bible school at a church just a half mile from her home. Usually, Gretchen is accompanied by her two sisters, but this day, she walks alone. The older girls stay home.
It was just after 9 a.m. when Pastor Harold Harrington waved goodbye. Two hours passed before he found out Gretchen never made it to VBS. Hundreds of people took part in the search for the little girl. A police helicopter continuously flew overhead. Teams of searchers combed the hillside of the community. Friends and family hand out fliers with Gretchen’s picture on it. Some witnesses said they had seen Gretchen outside a car, talking to someone, but nothing came of the lead.
Two months later, a jogger found the skeletonized human remains of a little girl. The Harringtons confirmed the clothing found with the body as Gretchen’s. It was only 20 minutes from her home.
Gretchen’s manner of death is ruled a homicide. The girl's skull has been fractured by multiple vicious blows. An autopsy does not reveal sex assault, but police believe that was the motive.
Now, years later, a new book leads to the capture of a murderer.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Joanna Falcone Sullivan - Co-author: ‘Marple’s Gretchen Harrington Tragedy: Kidnapping, Murder and Innocence Lost in Suburban Philadelphia’, Editor in chief, Baltimore Business Journal; Facebook: Gretchen Harrington: Innocence Lost in Suburban Philadelphia
- Jarrett Ferentino - Homicide Prosecutor, Facebook & Instagram: Jarrett Ferentino
- Dr. Jeff Kieliszewski - Forensic Psychologist, Author: “Darksides;" FB: forensicsandmediapsychologist/TikTok: Dr. Jeff Kieliszewski
- Brandon M. Graeff - Chief of Police with Marple Township Police Department in Broomall, PA;@marplepolice on Facebook, X, and Instagram
- Dr. Karl E. Williams, MD, MPH - Chief Medical Examiner for Allegheny County, PA
- Audrey Conklin- Crime Reporter for Fox News Digital, Twitter: @audpants
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Vacation Bible School.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I certainly went to Vacation Bible School every single summer,
as have my children, and we've loved it. But how
does a simple walk to VBS turn into murder? Murder
for an eight year old little girl, and how does
(00:40):
a book written years later shed light on this child's
disappearance and gruesome death.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Thank you for being with us here at Fox Sination
and Serious exem one eleven.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Take a listens to our friends a crime online.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
It's a summertime ritual for many, Vacation Bible School and
that's where eight year old Gretchen Harrington was headed. She
left home planning to walk the half mile to Trinity
Christian Reform Church and then on to nearby Brumall Reform
Presbyterian Church. Gretchen's dad was a pastor there. Gretchen walked alone.
Usually she was accompanied by her two sisters, but this day,
(01:22):
the older girls decided to stay home to see a
newborn sister their mom was bringing home. Two hours passed
before Pastor Harrington found out. Gretchen never made it to BBS.
Trinity's pastor and his wife were working the vacation Bible
School program and they knew Gretchen well. One of their
daughters was Gretchen's best friend. After speaking with Gretchen's father,
(01:42):
the pastor called police, as Gretchen's father had asked. As
the day got dark around eight pm. No sign of Gretchen.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Wow, I cannot even imagine. So a short walk turns
into a disappearance. Joining me an all star panel to
make sense of what we know right now.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
But first I want.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
To go out to Audrey Conklin, crime reporter with Fox
News Digital.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Audrey, thank you so much for being with us.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Tell me where this happened and how far this eight
year old little girl had to walk.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
It happened in Marple Township, Pennsylvania, which is a suburb
of Philadelphia, where as I have learned, a lot of people,
a lot of families moved to kind of escape urban crime,
and the walk wasn't far. Her father was actually passed
through at one of the churches that was part of
(02:34):
this Bible camp. So he washed her leave home every
morning and walked to camp. And on that morning, for
some reason, he just turned around and didn't see her.
Finish her walk up the road.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Now, this is just so reminiscent of the disappearance of
little Aton Pats who the first day he was to
walk to school, and I believe it's only one or
two blocks, and they've been practicing and practicing the very
first day that he.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Used to walk to school.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
He is kidnapped and murdered again with me an all
star panel to make sense of what we know right now.
But interesting to Jarrett Farentino joining me high profile homicide prosecutor,
joining us out of the Pennsylvania jurisdiction, Jarrett, in a
world where it should be safe to let your child
(03:30):
walk one block or two blocks, it's not. It's really
not safe at all, Jarrett.
Speaker 6 (03:36):
It could happen anywhere, any place, at any time, and
it looks like this little girl and she was targeted.
She was alone that day, there was a lot going
on at their home. It's just horrifying here in Pennsylvania
and anywhere when this happens.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
What can you tell me about this particular area, Jarrett Fiorentino,
Is that rural are there? Is there a dense population,
is it wooded, is it farmland?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
What is it?
Speaker 6 (04:04):
It's less rule today than it was then. But it
certainly was Nancy an escape, a place where people and
families such as this would go to escape the rigors
of the city and the dangers of the city.
Speaker 7 (04:16):
Quite honestly, you know, a.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
Child should be safe in any community, particularly this one,
to walk to Bible School.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Even now, Broomall only has a population.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Ten thousand, seven eighty nine, and that was a couple
of years ago that since this was taken, but still
a very very small area. Joining me right now, Brandon
m Great special guest Chief of Police in the Marple
Township PD there in brooml You can find them at
Marplepolice dot com. Chief, thank you for being.
Speaker 7 (04:47):
With us, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I believe that the case of this little girl, Gretchen
Harrington has hung like a pall, like a specter over
the police department when you first came in as chief,
were you familiar with Gretchen's case?
Speaker 8 (05:05):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (05:05):
Yes, not only when I became chief in twenty twenty,
but when I got hired here Marple it was a
you know, one of three unsolved serious cases homicides that
were part of the lure of this police department, and
of course with the neat year old girls the victim.
It ranks right at the top of those that really
stick in the crawl.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
You know, it's true that certain cases define certain areas,
like Atlanta is always associated with the Wayne Williams serial killings,
were dozens of children and teens go missing.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
And are murdered by Wayne Williams. It goes on. For instance,
people associate, let's just see Ted Bundy with the Cayomega killings,
although he started out west. You associate Scott Peterson with Modesto.
It's a horrible stigma to be attached to any particular town.
(06:05):
But that was the impact of the disappearance of this.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Eight year old little girl on her way to Bible
School of all places, take a listen to our friend
Dave Mack.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Hundreds of people took part in the search for the
little girl. A police helicopter continuously flew overhead. Teams of
searchers combed the hillside of the community. Friends and family
handed out flyers with Gregen's picture on it. Some witnesses
said they had seen Gregen outside a car talking to someone,
but nothing came of the lead. Just two days after
(06:35):
she disappeared, with little to go on, police called off
the large scale search.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
We're more familiar with the ways of the world now,
but when I see a kid outside a car, I
always stop. I just stopped and I watch to see
what happened, will what will happen because I'm just so
indoctrinated in cars snatching children. At the time Gretchen was
snatched off the street, no one thought a thing about it,
(07:05):
and then a gruesome discovery listen.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Two months after Gretchen left for vacation Bible school, a
jogger found skeletonized human remains of a little girl. The
Harringtons confirmed the clothing found with the body as Gretchen's.
It was only twenty minutes from her home. Dental records
were used to positively identify the remains. Gretchen's manner of
death was ruled a homicide. The girl's skull had been
(07:29):
fractured by multiple vicious blows. An autoposy did not reveal
sex assault, but police believed that was the motive. Police
received numerous tips, but none lead to a suspect.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Joining me right now.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Renowned medical examiner, the chief medical Examiner for Alleghany County,
doctor Carl Williams and Fyi. Alleghany County is in Pennsylvania
where Gretchen was kidnapped and murdered. Doctor Williams, thank you
for being with us, please, Doctor Williams. A couple of
questions about the discovery of Gretchen's body. Now we know
(08:04):
that even though hundreds of people had taken part in
the search for this little girl combing the hillside of
the community, it was two months after she goes missing
a jog or finds or skeletonized remains. She was identified
by her clothing and by dental records. Is it odd
(08:28):
that she is totally skeletonized in just two months.
Speaker 7 (08:32):
No, depending on the season, that can happen in a
matter of weeks very easily. So that's not surprising. That's
not surprising at all.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
You know, we're so used to watching programs on TV
and Blockbuster movies where all sorts of high tech is used.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
The truth is, that's not truth. It's not like that.
Very often.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Ideas are made from clothing, are made from dental records,
and then if.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
We can get DNA, we do.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
How is the identification of a body made through dental records,
Doctor Williams.
Speaker 7 (09:11):
Well, you really don't even need dental records in this
case because the identitian was so intact and so obvious
from the photographs. But that was the combination of the
distinctive clothing, the braids, and the hair. It was a
pretty easy identification. They say dental records. I'm not even
sure if she had records, but you wouldn't even need
(09:31):
it because of the distinctive nature of the insize or
some things. It was a pretty straightforward identification.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
What do you mean by the distinctive features of the incisors?
Speaker 7 (09:41):
She had two large incisors, gaps on either side, and
the photographs okay, so just as a matter of the
stage of dentician. So I didn't see any specific records.
I didn't any specific reference to dental records other than
dental identification. So having the pictures, having the incisors are
(10:01):
found in the skullton things that would have been sufficient. Again,
very distinctive braids in the hair, very distinctive clothes. I
don't think there was any question whatsoever about the identification.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Prime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
It's very curious to me, doctor Carl Williams, that you
have mentioned the gap next to her incisors.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I noticed the same thing.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
It looks like she still had her baby teeth in
part some of them.
Speaker 7 (10:43):
You're absolutely right. Just seeing the photograph and comparing that
with what would have been seen in the skeletonized remains,
I would not have had any problem in making the
identification for those of.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
You that cannot see doctor Williams and I are talking about,
I'm looking at a picture of this. I mean, just
a precious, precious little girl, the daughter of a Presbyterian
minister and his wife, who goes missing mid August on
her way to Bible school at Trinity Church Chapel. She's
got a big smile and when he's saying the gap
(11:16):
beside her incisors on either side of the nose if
you come straight down, there is a big noticeable gap
to the side on her right side of her front teeth,
a big gap between that, and it's on the top
and the bottom. When she smiles, it kind of makes
(11:37):
a diamond shape of a gap. It's very noticeable, and
you see her adult teeth, her adult front two teeth
have come in, but from there back it looks like
she this little child still has her baby teeth, and
there's a big gap between the hront teeth and the
(11:58):
beginning of the teeth. Now the incisor, isn't that basically
your fangs?
Speaker 7 (12:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Exactly, okayisers now I see what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
It's a big gap between the front tooth and the incisor,
your vampire fang.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Got it. It's very noticeable.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
And I'm sure when her grown teeth will come in
that would have straightened up. But this little child never
even got her adult teeth. This little baby girl still
had her baby teeth. I'm curious, do we know, Audrey
Conklin or doctor Carl Williams. Was she clothed? Well, she
was clothed when she was found, because she was partially
(12:37):
identified based on her clothing. Is that right, Audie Conklin, Yes.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
I believe part of her clothing was ripped damaged in
some way.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Did you say ripped? Yeah, there goes, there goes, doctor Williams.
Go ahead, doctor, Well, I.
Speaker 7 (12:49):
Was gonna say, you can't tell again by the clothes
because they'd be associated again with the decomposition. And it
was August, and in August a matter of weeks is
more than enough because the skeletonization and the clothes typically
would be at least a part of that. So everything
(13:10):
fits in a way, and why she was not found
I can't say back.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
To doctor Jeff Kealashevski, renowned psychologists joining us, author of
Dark Sides. You can find them on TikTok at doctor
Jeff Kalashevski. Doctor, I mean I name a shrink because
why with the perp fold up the child's clothes next
to her naked body and put her underwear up in
(13:35):
a tree.
Speaker 8 (13:36):
Well, I'll tell you when you look at So this
area in the research is called sexual homicide, and we
know a lot more about sexual homicide with adult victims
than we actually do about child victims. Well, thing that
we do know in the research is that typically with
sexual homicide child victims, this tends to be more of
(13:57):
a crime of opportunity and not as well planned out.
So what we see in sexual homicide of child cases
is a lot of times the perpetrator has not really
figured it all out and hadn't really premeditated a plan.
You know, in a situation where he folds the clothes
(14:18):
and puts the underwear in the tree, it's obvious that
he wanted to signal so that the child would be found,
which just offers more questions rather than any answers about
his motivation behind the ground, and.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Doctor Kelshevski another question. The part left her there and
closed out in the woods with her underwear hanging up
in a branch like a flag. But he made rudimentary
steps in trying to cover up her body. That's something
I've always been curious about, Doctor Kelishevski. A killer's attempt
(14:56):
to hide, particularly the face. Now, I understand burying about
it because you don't want it to be found, but
he didn't do a.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Very good job.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
He was more hiding part of her, hiding her with
Lee's what is a phenomena of killers trying to cover
the faces of their victims.
Speaker 8 (15:17):
In situations, particularly when there's a sexual homicide. I mean,
I've seen a lot of cases myself where killers do
various things to people's faces. I had a case where
a guy super glued the victim's eye shut, and when
(15:38):
I asked him about it, he talked about how it
was unpleasant for him to see the victim's face, particularly
when the victim was alive. So the motivation behind the
idea of not covering the face or covering the face.
You know, it really has to do with in that moment,
(16:01):
what the murderer is sort of getting out of that experience,
in what they don't want to be exposed to.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I understand.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I'm thinking about this little eight year old girl and
what she lived through before her murder, and then, seemingly,
out of the blue, we hear from an author. An
author Joanna Falcone Sullivan take a listen to our friends
(16:32):
at KYWTV.
Speaker 10 (16:34):
Joanna was nine years old and living in Brumal, Delaware County,
when eight year old Gretchen Harrington was kidnapped while walking
to a vacation Bible school less than a quarter mile
from her home. Gretchen's body was found by a jogger
in a state park nearly two months later. The case
has always haunted this journalist, so she wrote the book
detailing the ongoing investigation.
Speaker 11 (16:56):
I had wanted to write this story for.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Decades and more. Listen.
Speaker 11 (17:02):
I grew up in Broomall. My co author Mike Mathis
grew up in Broomall as well. He grew up in
Lawrence Park where this happened. It affected both of us
as kids, and it affected a lot of kids. We
started interviewing people. We went to Marble Police Department and
went through the file repeatedly.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
In joining me right now that author Joanna Falcone Sullivan,
co author of marpls Gretchen Harrington Tragedy, Kidnapping, murder and
Innocence Lost in suburban Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Wow, that title really says it all. Joanne.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I've got so many questions for you, But first of all,
thank you for being with us. And tell me how
Gretcha's disappearance, her kidnap, her assault and murder affected you
as a child growing up in the same area.
Speaker 12 (18:00):
You know, one of those things that never left my mind.
I remember that day very vividly, and so does Mike,
my co author. We talked about it over the years.
We ran into each other at a high school reunion
and we talked about writing the book together, and you know,
(18:21):
it was something that I remember so clearly. I remember
following the story over the years, and it always was
so sad to me because things really seemed to change
after that for a lot of families.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
How did things change?
Speaker 12 (18:38):
I think, you know, people we had the feeling that
we were so safe, we were invincibles in this you know,
at this time and after this, I remember, you know,
thinking when people would say, oh, it was so great
to be able to ride your bikes till midnight and
don't come in until the dinner belt found sounded. And
(18:59):
you know, I hear people of my generation saying that,
and I all I could think of was Gretchen Harrington.
You know it was not true. It was not you know,
you were not so steep all the time.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
You know, it's interesting and what you're saying, Joanna guys
with me. Joeannaflcone Sullivan, the co author of a definitive
book on Gretchen's eight year old Gretchen's disappearance and murder, Joanna,
I would walk home from Bible school and home from school.
We'd catch a bus or a ride to get there
in the mornings, but would walk home. It was over
(19:37):
a mile, but both my parents would be gone to
work by then, and nobody thought a thing about it.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
And yes, we could.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Ride iur bikes until literally we heard the chimes and
the church steeple, and that would mean it was about
six o'clock and we needed to go home, or would
hear my mom or dad too the car horn in
the distance, and we would know that that was our
horn and we had to come home because we would
be so far away. And it was absolutely fine. But
(20:06):
the reality is, in many places it's not. I mean,
it would be through hell and high water that I
would let my children go out at age eight and
walk anywhere by themselves, period, end of story. But I
guess it's because of the business I'm in. Most people
are very trusting, as were Gretchen's parents. I mean, she
(20:30):
had such a short distance to go from where her
dad was pastor to the next church over for Bible school.
Who would have thought in that short space now? Joanna
fl Cone Sullivan, author of Marpool's Gretchen Harrington Tragedy. Joanna,
you said you remember the day so clearly when you learned.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
About Gretchen's disappearance. What is your recollection?
Speaker 12 (20:54):
My recollection is we were at our swim club called
the Large Park Swim Club, not far from where Gretchen
was abducted, and we started seeing a helicopter flying over
the woods behind the swim club. So of course everyone
was curious, you know, what's going on? You know, we
didn't know until we got home that day that a
little girl was missing, and that stuck with me. We
(21:18):
ended up the first chapter starts with that helicopter, and
we discovered over the years that it was the same
memory that so many people had. Mike and I talked
to so many people and they remember that day with
the helicopter. They the next day, Mike remembers his dad
took part in the search. There were hundreds of community members,
(21:41):
volunteer firefighters, police from other jurisdictions participating in the search,
and they combed the area. They combed the creek area,
the woods behind. There were a lot more woods back then.
But you know, so that those days were very vivid,
And I also remember her being found because there was
(22:03):
always that hope that maybe she would be found alive.
And that October day when she was found, I remember
and seeing it in the papers. I was a newtown
then as well, and read the Philadelphia papers and the
local Delaware County papers, and I remember that very clearly.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
You know, Joanna, just the way you describe that just
runs chills down me. That you remember seeing the helicopters overhead,
and then finding out a couple of months later, the
hope that she was alive somewhere, and then finding out
that her remains had been found. I've got a question
(22:44):
for you, Joanna, and maybe Chief Graef can answer. Chief
of police there in Marble Township, did search or search
that area of woods where her body was ultimately found, either.
Speaker 9 (22:57):
Of you know no where she was found was I think,
as the crow flies, probably about five miles away.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Okay, I'll tell you what I was worried about, Chief.
I was worried that she was held captive. If they
had searched that area and didn't find her, and then
two months later a jograph finds her in that same area,
that is even worse because that would have meant he
kept her alive, raping her and sodomizing her for a
period of time, and then went and put her body
(23:26):
out there, hanging her underwear up in a tree so
she would be found.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
That is an even worse scenario.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
So I'm glad to hear that guys with us an
all star panel and including the woman who takes the
case on based on memories she had a Gretchen going
missing on her walk to Bible school and then really
digging in to find the truth, but then out of
nowhere a break.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Take a listen to our friends at crime Online.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Years passed before a case busting phone call come into
the Marble Township headquarters. A woman says she thinks she
knows who killed Gretchen. The officer contacts state police, an
interview is set up. The woman spoke of her diaries
kept as a little girl and about an incident that
happened it pastored David Zanstra's home. The woman was friends
with the pastor's daughters. During a sleepover, she said she
(24:19):
woke up to Pastor Zanstra touching her private area. She
moved and says he immediately rushed from the room, but
the next night it happened again. She mentioned what happened
to her friend and they said, basically, he does that sometimes.
The girl told her parents it was the last time
she stated a Zanstra's home. Police came to believe that
(24:39):
incident happened one week before Gretchen disappeared.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Okay, Audrey Conklin joining US investigative report with Fox News Digital.
What all the parents did was say, Okay, well, you
can't stay over there anymore. Nobody brought a case against
this guy, and am I getting it right?
Speaker 5 (24:56):
He's a pastor, Yes, she was a pastor, And I
leave a pretty well known member of the community. I
don't know exactly how parents handled these accusations from his
daughter's friend, but I guess, I guess according to her account,
it was kind of pushed under the rug.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Joining me is the chief of police there in Marvel Township,
Chief Brandon M.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Graf.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Tell me about what happened. Tell me about what this
little girl said.
Speaker 9 (25:27):
Well, we got a phone call from her in January
of this year and she spoke with or a sergeant
of detectives, Nick Coffin, and told him about the diary,
told him about her suspicions, and the ANSWER's name had
been peppered throughout the file, although nothing you know, that
(25:50):
would draw anyone's attention, you know, five ten forty years later,
during the investigations or the relooction looking back into it.
So we took the information and frankly, because of Joanna
and Mike's work on the book, I had reached out
to the State Police barracks, the cold case unit, who
(26:12):
was handling the murder investigation. So even before this woman
called us, you know, the bulls was rolling, you know,
a little.
Speaker 7 (26:21):
Faster, I'll say.
Speaker 9 (26:22):
You know, the interest was peaked again between us and
the state police. So you know, it's kind of like
a perfect storm because they had, you know, continued to
look into it or you know, their investigators. You know,
I would say, probably put it more at the top
of the list of the cold cases. And then this
woman calls fortuitously and we get them the information and
(26:44):
you know, off it went.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I'm with you, Chief Grave, I do not believe there
are coincidences in criminal law. So Joanna Falcone Sullivan and
her co author published Marple's Gretchen Harrington Tragedy, Kidnapping, Murder
and Innocence Lost in Suburban Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
That is published.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
I think it was in October and in January, this
woman calls in to recount what happened to her is
do I have the timeline correct?
Speaker 9 (27:13):
Chief, Yes, ma'am, yes you do.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Okay, so no coincidence. Take a listen to our friends
at KYWTV.
Speaker 9 (27:19):
Today.
Speaker 13 (27:19):
Police invited us along as they looked for a report
filed by a mom who told officers back then a
stranger attempted to kidnap her son near Westchester Pike and
Newardmore Avenue. Chief Brandon Graef, a.
Speaker 9 (27:33):
Man pulled up in a car, opened the trunk, got
out and actually grabbed her brother and she they just
knew he was going to with the intention of kidnapping him.
Speaker 13 (27:45):
Police are still looking for that incident report that goes
back to the nineteen seventies concerning that attempted kidnapping, and
eyewitness to the crime first contacted us here at CBS
News Philadelphia, concerned about the information she knew the way
back when about that attempted kidnapping.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
So you've got Gretchen, eight year old, Gretchen kidnapped, sex assaulted,
and murdered. You've got another little girl who was molested
at the hands of a pastor at a sleepover.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And now you've got.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
A little boy who was the victim of an attempted
kidnapping in a vehicle. How many other victims are out there?
And then finally take a list hour cut thirteen.
Speaker 13 (28:32):
Ky WTV prosecutor say Zanstra, a one time reverend, moved
around a lot. The results of a DNA test are
pending and will be entered into a national database to
determine possible connections to other investigations.
Speaker 9 (28:47):
My mind go to the places that he's lived at,
you know, for the past forty eight years in Texas,
California and Georgia. You know this general is not somebody
who doesn't do this one time.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
True or words were never spoke and now sent to
Fox five our cut one.
Speaker 14 (29:02):
He's accused of murdering eight year old Gretchen Harrington and Zanstruk.
At the time, I'd been working as a pastor at
a Pennsylvania church. In August of nineteen seventy five, police
tell us that Gretchen left her home to go to
Bible camp that was hosted by that very same church.
And that's when investigator say, zanstru who was also a
family friend of the Herringtons, abducted her, took her to
(29:24):
the woods, and beat her to death when she refused
to take off her clothes. It took them about two
months to find her body.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Back to our friend joining us from Fox News Digital,
Audrey Coughlin, Audrey, what is the understanding now of what
happened to Gretchen?
Speaker 5 (29:42):
We understand now that Gretchen was sought out by xanstra
and attacked and left her dead, unfortunately, and he went
on to live the rest of his life. He had
a family. He was eighty three years old at the
time of his arrest. So we under the radar for decades.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
But police paint a very different picture of him, as
opposed to the image of a loving and benevolent local
pastor take us now are cut For Joe.
Speaker 13 (30:16):
Holden, police painted a picture of an evil man who,
they say, Lord gretchento his car, attempted to molest her
and then beat her to death when she refused to
give into his demands. Her remains were located months later
at Ridley Creek State Park.
Speaker 15 (30:32):
He killed this poor eight year old girl he knew
and who trusted him, and then he acted as if
he was a family friend, not only doing her burial
and the period after that, but for.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Years prime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Doctor carl A.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Williams joining as chief medical Examiner Alleghany County there in Pennsylvania.
Doctor Williams, I know that you have literally performed thousands
and thousands of autopsies. How is it different for you
to perform an autopsy on a little girl?
Speaker 7 (31:19):
Yeah, children are all was difficult for emotional reasons. I mean,
the technology, what you have to do, what you have
to document is all pretty much the same, but it's
harder to separate it from the emotional content. Of dealing
with a child. So that's about all I can say.
(31:40):
You know, you can do thousands of autopsies and still
have kind of an emotional response to certain types of cases.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
So it's difficult, isn't it true?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Chief Graf that it was the defendant himself that called
nine to one one.
Speaker 9 (31:55):
Yes, it was as sick as it makes you feel. Yeah,
he was, and just like the strict attorney Stolsteimer said
in his news conference, you know, really is the epitome
of evil. You know. He played himself as the good
family friend that he was and that the Harringtons believed
him to be, But he was.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
The one that called take a listener, our cut f
Zanstra told troopers he offered Gretchen a ride that day,
which she accepted, but Zanstra didn't drive toward the church.
Realizing it, Gretchen asked to go home. Zanstra described how
he took her to a wooded area where she refused
his demands for her to take off her clothes. That's
when Zanstra attacked, beating the girl in the head with
(32:37):
his fist, killing her. He covered her half naked body
with sticks in the woods before resuming his life.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Jarrett F.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Garantina joining me. Renowned homicide prosecutor Jarrett so often the
molester or the killer of children as a trusted family friend,
a relative, a member of the neighborhood that no one
whatever suspect.
Speaker 6 (33:01):
We know Nancy. Those predators, they operate in many instances
on trust, and it looks like Danstra built that trust
both with this family and this little girl before and after.
That's part of their weapon, that trust both in the
community and oftentimes with they're victims, and this case is
no different.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Now.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
She's been asked many times if she believes her book
brought about this arrest. Take alsafras A kyw in Our Cut.
Speaker 10 (33:31):
Eight when asked if she believes her book may have
helped police get the break they needed to make an
arrest in this case. Nearly fifty years later.
Speaker 11 (33:40):
We've been told that by Marvel Police and we're encouraged
that we somehow contributed to this. We got people talking again.
Speaker 10 (33:50):
Well, this was Joanna's first book, but she says she
does plan to revise and edit this true crime story
here to now reflect the arrest and any updated in
from about this case.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Joanna Falcone Sullivan joining us along with Chief Brandon m. Graf, Joanna,
you're two modest. I agree with the Chief that it's
no coincidence your book comes out and then the other
little girl, now grown woman, comes forward. It's amazing in retrospect,
(34:28):
How do you feel about the journey you've been through
investigating this case.
Speaker 12 (34:34):
We never imagine this kind of outcome. You know, we
had hoped that maybe you had shed some light on
the case. We had named a prime suspect who died
in jail. We were hoping, you know, eventually DNA evidence
would come, you know, help solve this. So we never
imagine this. We had hoped for this, and you know,
(34:55):
in many ways, I'm relieved. I mean, the family will
never you know, still never get over it, you know,
but hopefully they've found some peace. I imagine it's really
hard the fact that it was someone it could be
somebody they knew and trusted.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Again, you are too humble and too modest. You and
your co author have done an amazing, amazing thing. Of course,
it could not have been done without the Marvel.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Police, correct, Chief Grace. When you reflect on this, yes,
justice was slow in coming, but it came.
Speaker 9 (35:32):
It finally came, and you know, the wheels of justice.
We all know if they grind, they grind, Souwy, but honestly,
they don't stop, especially in cases like this, they don't stop.
When you're advocating for an eight year old girl who
can no longer speak for herself, it's our job than
(35:52):
to take that the con and speak for her and
her family and do everything we can to see that
she can rest truly in peace.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
You know, Chief Grace. I remember going to so many
crime scenes and visiting with so many crime victims families,
and they would I'd go to their home and sit
me down somewhere, usually in the living room, and I
could tell it was the best chair, and they would
look at me, expecting me to pull some kind of
(36:21):
magic trick and make everything okay. And I would always
leave feeling like crap because I couldn't make everything okay.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Again, people look to.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Law enforcement as if we're going to have all the
answers and we're going to find the person in a
timely manner and justice will proceed. At the end of
the day, they're going to feel better. But we're not magicians.
We can't work miracles.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Chief. I'm just amazed at what.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Your force has done of course, with the help of
Joe NFL Consulivan's.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
It's amazing to me this case was ever solved.
Speaker 7 (37:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 9 (37:03):
And it is a team effort. It always has been
and was. You know, as law enforcement we grapple with
you know, the responsibility of everyone expects prevention, right, we
want to prevent crime from happening. We know that's not possible,
so the best we can do is once a crime happens,
(37:25):
you know, now our responsibilities do everything we can to
get justice for victims. We don't know what we don't
know as far as prevention, you know, we don't know
what we prevent. But you know, the cases like this,
and I honestly can speak for all law enforcement here.
Cases like this don't ever get dusty. They really don't,
(37:46):
you know.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
To doctor Jeff Kelschewsky joining US renowned forensic psychologist and
author of Dark Sides, Doctor Jeff, you know, I was
listening to Joe NFL Coon Solomon just a few moments
ago talking about trying to help the family. And it
does help the family, it does. If she ever wonders,
if you ever wonder, Joanna, you have no idea how
(38:07):
much justice and resolution means. But dtr Klashevsky, I want
to be clear about one thing. As a victim of
violent crime myself, it changes you forever. You never quote
get over it. It changes you. It just changes your DNA
kind of. I've had people come up to me and say,
(38:27):
you know, you're nothing like you used to be before
Keith was murdered my fiance. I don't even remember that girl.
Dr Klashevski, I don't even remember what they describe to
me as how I was then and now.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
And affakes everything for the rest of your life.
Speaker 8 (38:45):
It absolutely does, And I think you really hit the
nail on the head. You don't get over something like this.
When I would work doing tree mill of folks who've
been through terms of crime, you have to try to
help them get pasted as well as they can. But
you're absolutely right, you're fundamentally changed as a person after
something like this.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
But step number one and at least moving forward with
your life in some fashion, not the way you were before,
but in some fashion. It's a resolution to what happened
to the person you loved and you, Joanna FELCN Sullivan
and you, Chief Brandon M. Graff and your department have
(39:27):
given that to this child's family, and there are no
words to thank you. Okay, one down, ten million to go, Goodbye.
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Vacation Bible School.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
I certainly went to Vacation Bible School every single summer,
as have my children, and we've loved it. But how
does a simple walk to VBS turn into murder? Murder
for an eight year old little girl, and how does
(00:40):
a book written years later shed light on this child's
disappearance and gruesome death.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Thank you for being with us here at Fox Sination
and Serious exem one eleven.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Take a listens to our friends a crime online.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
It's a summertime ritual for many, Vacation Bible School and
that's where eight year old Gretchen Harrington was headed. She
left home planning to walk the half mile to Trinity
Christian Reform Church and then on to nearby Brumall Reform
Presbyterian Church. Gretchen's dad was a pastor there. Gretchen walked alone.
Usually she was accompanied by her two sisters, but this day,
(01:22):
the older girls decided to stay home to see a
newborn sister their mom was bringing home. Two hours passed
before Pastor Harrington found out. Gretchen never made it to BBS.
Trinity's pastor and his wife were working the vacation Bible
School program and they knew Gretchen well. One of their
daughters was Gretchen's best friend. After speaking with Gretchen's father,
(01:42):
the pastor called police, as Gretchen's father had asked. As
the day got dark around eight pm. No sign of Gretchen.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Wow, I cannot even imagine. So a short walk turns
into a disappearance. Joining me an all star panel to
make sense of what we know right now.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
But first I want.
Speaker 3 (02:01):
To go out to Audrey Conklin, crime reporter with Fox
News Digital.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Audrey, thank you so much for being with us.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Tell me where this happened and how far this eight
year old little girl had to walk.
Speaker 5 (02:13):
It happened in Marple Township, Pennsylvania, which is a suburb
of Philadelphia, where as I have learned, a lot of people,
a lot of families moved to kind of escape urban crime,
and the walk wasn't far. Her father was actually passed
through at one of the churches that was part of
(02:34):
this Bible camp. So he washed her leave home every
morning and walked to camp. And on that morning, for
some reason, he just turned around and didn't see her.
Finish her walk up the road.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Now, this is just so reminiscent of the disappearance of
little Aton Pats who the first day he was to
walk to school, and I believe it's only one or
two blocks, and they've been practicing and practicing the very
first day that he.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Used to walk to school.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
He is kidnapped and murdered again with me an all
star panel to make sense of what we know right now.
But interesting to Jarrett Farentino joining me high profile homicide prosecutor,
joining us out of the Pennsylvania jurisdiction, Jarrett, in a
world where it should be safe to let your child
(03:30):
walk one block or two blocks, it's not. It's really
not safe at all, Jarrett.
Speaker 6 (03:36):
It could happen anywhere, any place, at any time, and
it looks like this little girl and she was targeted.
She was alone that day, there was a lot going
on at their home. It's just horrifying here in Pennsylvania
and anywhere when this happens.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
What can you tell me about this particular area, Jarrett Fiorentino,
Is that rural are there? Is there a dense population,
is it wooded, is it farmland?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
What is it?
Speaker 6 (04:04):
It's less rule today than it was then. But it
certainly was Nancy an escape, a place where people and
families such as this would go to escape the rigors
of the city and the dangers of the city.
Speaker 7 (04:16):
Quite honestly, you know, a.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
Child should be safe in any community, particularly this one,
to walk to Bible School.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Even now, Broomall only has a population.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
Ten thousand, seven eighty nine, and that was a couple
of years ago that since this was taken, but still
a very very small area. Joining me right now, Brandon
m Great special guest Chief of Police in the Marple
Township PD there in brooml You can find them at
Marplepolice dot com. Chief, thank you for being.
Speaker 7 (04:47):
With us, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
I believe that the case of this little girl, Gretchen
Harrington has hung like a pall, like a specter over
the police department when you first came in as chief,
were you familiar with Gretchen's case?
Speaker 8 (05:05):
Oh?
Speaker 9 (05:05):
Yes, not only when I became chief in twenty twenty,
but when I got hired here Marple it was a
you know, one of three unsolved serious cases homicides that
were part of the lure of this police department, and
of course with the neat year old girls the victim.
It ranks right at the top of those that really
stick in the crawl.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
You know, it's true that certain cases define certain areas,
like Atlanta is always associated with the Wayne Williams serial killings,
were dozens of children and teens go missing.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
And are murdered by Wayne Williams. It goes on. For instance,
people associate, let's just see Ted Bundy with the Cayomega killings,
although he started out west. You associate Scott Peterson with Modesto.
It's a horrible stigma to be attached to any particular town.
(06:05):
But that was the impact of the disappearance of this.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Eight year old little girl on her way to Bible
School of all places, take a listen to our friend
Dave Mack.
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Hundreds of people took part in the search for the
little girl. A police helicopter continuously flew overhead. Teams of
searchers combed the hillside of the community. Friends and family
handed out flyers with Gregen's picture on it. Some witnesses
said they had seen Gregen outside a car talking to someone,
but nothing came of the lead. Just two days after
(06:35):
she disappeared, with little to go on, police called off
the large scale search.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You know, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
We're more familiar with the ways of the world now,
but when I see a kid outside a car, I
always stop. I just stopped and I watch to see
what happened, will what will happen because I'm just so
indoctrinated in cars snatching children. At the time Gretchen was
snatched off the street, no one thought a thing about it,
(07:05):
and then a gruesome discovery listen.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Two months after Gretchen left for vacation Bible school, a
jogger found skeletonized human remains of a little girl. The
Harringtons confirmed the clothing found with the body as Gretchen's.
It was only twenty minutes from her home. Dental records
were used to positively identify the remains. Gretchen's manner of
death was ruled a homicide. The girl's skull had been
(07:29):
fractured by multiple vicious blows. An autoposy did not reveal
sex assault, but police believed that was the motive. Police
received numerous tips, but none lead to a suspect.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Joining me right now.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
Renowned medical examiner, the chief medical Examiner for Alleghany County,
doctor Carl Williams and Fyi. Alleghany County is in Pennsylvania
where Gretchen was kidnapped and murdered. Doctor Williams, thank you
for being with us, please, Doctor Williams. A couple of
questions about the discovery of Gretchen's body. Now we know
(08:04):
that even though hundreds of people had taken part in
the search for this little girl combing the hillside of
the community, it was two months after she goes missing
a jog or finds or skeletonized remains. She was identified
by her clothing and by dental records. Is it odd
(08:28):
that she is totally skeletonized in just two months.
Speaker 7 (08:32):
No, depending on the season, that can happen in a
matter of weeks very easily. So that's not surprising. That's
not surprising at all.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
You know, we're so used to watching programs on TV
and Blockbuster movies where all sorts of high tech is used.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
The truth is, that's not truth. It's not like that.
Very often.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Ideas are made from clothing, are made from dental records,
and then if.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
We can get DNA, we do.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
How is the identification of a body made through dental records,
Doctor Williams.
Speaker 7 (09:11):
Well, you really don't even need dental records in this
case because the identitian was so intact and so obvious
from the photographs. But that was the combination of the
distinctive clothing, the braids, and the hair. It was a
pretty easy identification. They say dental records. I'm not even
sure if she had records, but you wouldn't even need
(09:31):
it because of the distinctive nature of the insize or
some things. It was a pretty straightforward identification.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
What do you mean by the distinctive features of the incisors?
Speaker 7 (09:41):
She had two large incisors, gaps on either side, and
the photographs okay, so just as a matter of the
stage of dentician. So I didn't see any specific records.
I didn't any specific reference to dental records other than
dental identification. So having the pictures, having the incisors are
(10:01):
found in the skullton things that would have been sufficient. Again,
very distinctive braids in the hair, very distinctive clothes. I
don't think there was any question whatsoever about the identification.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Prime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
It's very curious to me, doctor Carl Williams, that you
have mentioned the gap next to her incisors.
Speaker 2 (10:36):
I noticed the same thing.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
It looks like she still had her baby teeth in
part some of them.
Speaker 7 (10:43):
You're absolutely right. Just seeing the photograph and comparing that
with what would have been seen in the skeletonized remains,
I would not have had any problem in making the
identification for those of.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
You that cannot see doctor Williams and I are talking about,
I'm looking at a picture of this. I mean, just
a precious, precious little girl, the daughter of a Presbyterian
minister and his wife, who goes missing mid August on
her way to Bible school at Trinity Church Chapel. She's
got a big smile and when he's saying the gap
(11:16):
beside her incisors on either side of the nose if
you come straight down, there is a big noticeable gap
to the side on her right side of her front teeth,
a big gap between that, and it's on the top
and the bottom. When she smiles, it kind of makes
(11:37):
a diamond shape of a gap. It's very noticeable, and
you see her adult teeth, her adult front two teeth
have come in, but from there back it looks like
she this little child still has her baby teeth, and
there's a big gap between the hront teeth and the
(11:58):
beginning of the teeth. Now the incisor, isn't that basically
your fangs?
Speaker 7 (12:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Exactly, okayisers now I see what you're saying.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
It's a big gap between the front tooth and the incisor,
your vampire fang.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Got it. It's very noticeable.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
And I'm sure when her grown teeth will come in
that would have straightened up. But this little child never
even got her adult teeth. This little baby girl still
had her baby teeth. I'm curious, do we know, Audrey
Conklin or doctor Carl Williams. Was she clothed? Well, she
was clothed when she was found, because she was partially
(12:37):
identified based on her clothing. Is that right, Audie Conklin, Yes.
Speaker 5 (12:41):
I believe part of her clothing was ripped damaged in
some way.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
Did you say ripped? Yeah, there goes, there goes, doctor Williams.
Go ahead, doctor, Well, I.
Speaker 7 (12:49):
Was gonna say, you can't tell again by the clothes
because they'd be associated again with the decomposition. And it
was August, and in August a matter of weeks is
more than enough because the skeletonization and the clothes typically
would be at least a part of that. So everything
(13:10):
fits in a way, and why she was not found
I can't say back.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
To doctor Jeff Kealashevski, renowned psychologists joining us, author of
Dark Sides. You can find them on TikTok at doctor
Jeff Kalashevski. Doctor, I mean I name a shrink because
why with the perp fold up the child's clothes next
to her naked body and put her underwear up in
(13:35):
a tree.
Speaker 8 (13:36):
Well, I'll tell you when you look at So this
area in the research is called sexual homicide, and we
know a lot more about sexual homicide with adult victims
than we actually do about child victims. Well, thing that
we do know in the research is that typically with
sexual homicide child victims, this tends to be more of
(13:57):
a crime of opportunity and not as well planned out.
So what we see in sexual homicide of child cases
is a lot of times the perpetrator has not really
figured it all out and hadn't really premeditated a plan.
You know, in a situation where he folds the clothes
(14:18):
and puts the underwear in the tree, it's obvious that
he wanted to signal so that the child would be found,
which just offers more questions rather than any answers about
his motivation behind the ground, and.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Doctor Kelshevski another question. The part left her there and
closed out in the woods with her underwear hanging up
in a branch like a flag. But he made rudimentary
steps in trying to cover up her body. That's something
I've always been curious about, Doctor Kelishevski. A killer's attempt
(14:56):
to hide, particularly the face. Now, I understand burying about
it because you don't want it to be found, but
he didn't do a.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Very good job.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
He was more hiding part of her, hiding her with
Lee's what is a phenomena of killers trying to cover
the faces of their victims.
Speaker 8 (15:17):
In situations, particularly when there's a sexual homicide. I mean,
I've seen a lot of cases myself where killers do
various things to people's faces. I had a case where
a guy super glued the victim's eye shut, and when
(15:38):
I asked him about it, he talked about how it
was unpleasant for him to see the victim's face, particularly
when the victim was alive. So the motivation behind the
idea of not covering the face or covering the face.
You know, it really has to do with in that moment,
(16:01):
what the murderer is sort of getting out of that experience,
in what they don't want to be exposed to.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I understand.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
I'm thinking about this little eight year old girl and
what she lived through before her murder, and then, seemingly,
out of the blue, we hear from an author. An
author Joanna Falcone Sullivan take a listen to our friends
(16:32):
at KYWTV.
Speaker 10 (16:34):
Joanna was nine years old and living in Brumal, Delaware County,
when eight year old Gretchen Harrington was kidnapped while walking
to a vacation Bible school less than a quarter mile
from her home. Gretchen's body was found by a jogger
in a state park nearly two months later. The case
has always haunted this journalist, so she wrote the book
detailing the ongoing investigation.
Speaker 11 (16:56):
I had wanted to write this story for.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Decades and more. Listen.
Speaker 11 (17:02):
I grew up in Broomall. My co author Mike Mathis
grew up in Broomall as well. He grew up in
Lawrence Park where this happened. It affected both of us
as kids, and it affected a lot of kids. We
started interviewing people. We went to Marble Police Department and
went through the file repeatedly.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
In joining me right now that author Joanna Falcone Sullivan,
co author of marpls Gretchen Harrington Tragedy, Kidnapping, murder and
Innocence Lost in suburban Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Wow, that title really says it all. Joanne.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
I've got so many questions for you, But first of all,
thank you for being with us. And tell me how
Gretcha's disappearance, her kidnap, her assault and murder affected you
as a child growing up in the same area.
Speaker 12 (18:00):
You know, one of those things that never left my mind.
I remember that day very vividly, and so does Mike,
my co author. We talked about it over the years.
We ran into each other at a high school reunion
and we talked about writing the book together, and you know,
(18:21):
it was something that I remember so clearly. I remember
following the story over the years, and it always was
so sad to me because things really seemed to change
after that for a lot of families.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
How did things change?
Speaker 12 (18:38):
I think, you know, people we had the feeling that
we were so safe, we were invincibles in this you know,
at this time and after this, I remember, you know,
thinking when people would say, oh, it was so great
to be able to ride your bikes till midnight and
don't come in until the dinner belt found sounded. And
(18:59):
you know, I hear people of my generation saying that,
and I all I could think of was Gretchen Harrington.
You know it was not true. It was not you know,
you were not so steep all the time.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
You know, it's interesting and what you're saying, Joanna guys
with me. Joeannaflcone Sullivan, the co author of a definitive
book on Gretchen's eight year old Gretchen's disappearance and murder, Joanna,
I would walk home from Bible school and home from school.
We'd catch a bus or a ride to get there
in the mornings, but would walk home. It was over
(19:37):
a mile, but both my parents would be gone to
work by then, and nobody thought a thing about it.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
And yes, we could.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Ride iur bikes until literally we heard the chimes and
the church steeple, and that would mean it was about
six o'clock and we needed to go home, or would
hear my mom or dad too the car horn in
the distance, and we would know that that was our
horn and we had to come home because we would
be so far away. And it was absolutely fine. But
(20:06):
the reality is, in many places it's not. I mean,
it would be through hell and high water that I
would let my children go out at age eight and
walk anywhere by themselves, period, end of story. But I
guess it's because of the business I'm in. Most people
are very trusting, as were Gretchen's parents. I mean, she
(20:30):
had such a short distance to go from where her
dad was pastor to the next church over for Bible school.
Who would have thought in that short space now? Joanna
fl Cone Sullivan, author of Marpool's Gretchen Harrington Tragedy. Joanna,
you said you remember the day so clearly when you learned.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
About Gretchen's disappearance. What is your recollection?
Speaker 12 (20:54):
My recollection is we were at our swim club called
the Large Park Swim Club, not far from where Gretchen
was abducted, and we started seeing a helicopter flying over
the woods behind the swim club. So of course everyone
was curious, you know, what's going on? You know, we
didn't know until we got home that day that a
little girl was missing, and that stuck with me. We
(21:18):
ended up the first chapter starts with that helicopter, and
we discovered over the years that it was the same
memory that so many people had. Mike and I talked
to so many people and they remember that day with
the helicopter. They the next day, Mike remembers his dad
took part in the search. There were hundreds of community members,
(21:41):
volunteer firefighters, police from other jurisdictions participating in the search,
and they combed the area. They combed the creek area,
the woods behind. There were a lot more woods back then.
But you know, so that those days were very vivid,
And I also remember her being found because there was
(22:03):
always that hope that maybe she would be found alive.
And that October day when she was found, I remember
and seeing it in the papers. I was a newtown
then as well, and read the Philadelphia papers and the
local Delaware County papers, and I remember that very clearly.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
You know, Joanna, just the way you describe that just
runs chills down me. That you remember seeing the helicopters overhead,
and then finding out a couple of months later, the
hope that she was alive somewhere, and then finding out
that her remains had been found. I've got a question
(22:44):
for you, Joanna, and maybe Chief Graef can answer. Chief
of police there in Marble Township, did search or search
that area of woods where her body was ultimately found, either.
Speaker 9 (22:57):
Of you know no where she was found was I think,
as the crow flies, probably about five miles away.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Okay, I'll tell you what I was worried about, Chief.
I was worried that she was held captive. If they
had searched that area and didn't find her, and then
two months later a jograph finds her in that same area,
that is even worse because that would have meant he
kept her alive, raping her and sodomizing her for a
period of time, and then went and put her body
(23:26):
out there, hanging her underwear up in a tree so
she would be found.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
That is an even worse scenario.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
So I'm glad to hear that guys with us an
all star panel and including the woman who takes the
case on based on memories she had a Gretchen going
missing on her walk to Bible school and then really
digging in to find the truth, but then out of
nowhere a break.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Take a listen to our friends at crime Online.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Years passed before a case busting phone call come into
the Marble Township headquarters. A woman says she thinks she
knows who killed Gretchen. The officer contacts state police, an
interview is set up. The woman spoke of her diaries
kept as a little girl and about an incident that
happened it pastored David Zanstra's home. The woman was friends
with the pastor's daughters. During a sleepover, she said she
(24:19):
woke up to Pastor Zanstra touching her private area. She
moved and says he immediately rushed from the room, but
the next night it happened again. She mentioned what happened
to her friend and they said, basically, he does that sometimes.
The girl told her parents it was the last time
she stated a Zanstra's home. Police came to believe that
(24:39):
incident happened one week before Gretchen disappeared.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Okay, Audrey Conklin joining US investigative report with Fox News Digital.
What all the parents did was say, Okay, well, you
can't stay over there anymore. Nobody brought a case against
this guy, and am I getting it right?
Speaker 5 (24:56):
He's a pastor, Yes, she was a pastor, And I
leave a pretty well known member of the community. I
don't know exactly how parents handled these accusations from his
daughter's friend, but I guess, I guess according to her account,
it was kind of pushed under the rug.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Joining me is the chief of police there in Marvel Township,
Chief Brandon M.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Graf.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Tell me about what happened. Tell me about what this
little girl said.
Speaker 9 (25:27):
Well, we got a phone call from her in January
of this year and she spoke with or a sergeant
of detectives, Nick Coffin, and told him about the diary,
told him about her suspicions, and the ANSWER's name had
been peppered throughout the file, although nothing you know, that
(25:50):
would draw anyone's attention, you know, five ten forty years later,
during the investigations or the relooction looking back into it.
So we took the information and frankly, because of Joanna
and Mike's work on the book, I had reached out
to the State Police barracks, the cold case unit, who
(26:12):
was handling the murder investigation. So even before this woman
called us, you know, the bulls was rolling, you know,
a little.
Speaker 7 (26:21):
Faster, I'll say.
Speaker 9 (26:22):
You know, the interest was peaked again between us and
the state police. So you know, it's kind of like
a perfect storm because they had, you know, continued to
look into it or you know, their investigators. You know,
I would say, probably put it more at the top
of the list of the cold cases. And then this
woman calls fortuitously and we get them the information and
(26:44):
you know, off it went.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
I'm with you, Chief Grave, I do not believe there
are coincidences in criminal law. So Joanna Falcone Sullivan and
her co author published Marple's Gretchen Harrington Tragedy, Kidnapping, Murder
and Innocence Lost in Suburban Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
That is published.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
I think it was in October and in January, this
woman calls in to recount what happened to her is
do I have the timeline correct?
Speaker 9 (27:13):
Chief, Yes, ma'am, yes you do.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Okay, so no coincidence. Take a listen to our friends
at KYWTV.
Speaker 9 (27:19):
Today.
Speaker 13 (27:19):
Police invited us along as they looked for a report
filed by a mom who told officers back then a
stranger attempted to kidnap her son near Westchester Pike and
Newardmore Avenue. Chief Brandon Graef, a.
Speaker 9 (27:33):
Man pulled up in a car, opened the trunk, got
out and actually grabbed her brother and she they just
knew he was going to with the intention of kidnapping him.
Speaker 13 (27:45):
Police are still looking for that incident report that goes
back to the nineteen seventies concerning that attempted kidnapping, and
eyewitness to the crime first contacted us here at CBS
News Philadelphia, concerned about the information she knew the way
back when about that attempted kidnapping.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
So you've got Gretchen, eight year old, Gretchen kidnapped, sex assaulted,
and murdered. You've got another little girl who was molested
at the hands of a pastor at a sleepover.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
And now you've got.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
A little boy who was the victim of an attempted
kidnapping in a vehicle. How many other victims are out there?
And then finally take a list hour cut thirteen.
Speaker 13 (28:32):
Ky WTV prosecutor say Zanstra, a one time reverend, moved
around a lot. The results of a DNA test are
pending and will be entered into a national database to
determine possible connections to other investigations.
Speaker 9 (28:47):
My mind go to the places that he's lived at,
you know, for the past forty eight years in Texas,
California and Georgia. You know this general is not somebody
who doesn't do this one time.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
True or words were never spoke and now sent to
Fox five our cut one.
Speaker 14 (29:02):
He's accused of murdering eight year old Gretchen Harrington and Zanstruk.
At the time, I'd been working as a pastor at
a Pennsylvania church. In August of nineteen seventy five, police
tell us that Gretchen left her home to go to
Bible camp that was hosted by that very same church.
And that's when investigator say, zanstru who was also a
family friend of the Herringtons, abducted her, took her to
(29:24):
the woods, and beat her to death when she refused
to take off her clothes. It took them about two
months to find her body.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Back to our friend joining us from Fox News Digital,
Audrey Coughlin, Audrey, what is the understanding now of what
happened to Gretchen?
Speaker 5 (29:42):
We understand now that Gretchen was sought out by xanstra
and attacked and left her dead, unfortunately, and he went
on to live the rest of his life. He had
a family. He was eighty three years old at the
time of his arrest. So we under the radar for decades.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
But police paint a very different picture of him, as
opposed to the image of a loving and benevolent local
pastor take us now are cut For Joe.
Speaker 13 (30:16):
Holden, police painted a picture of an evil man who,
they say, Lord gretchento his car, attempted to molest her
and then beat her to death when she refused to
give into his demands. Her remains were located months later
at Ridley Creek State Park.
Speaker 15 (30:32):
He killed this poor eight year old girl he knew
and who trusted him, and then he acted as if
he was a family friend, not only doing her burial
and the period after that, but for.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Years prime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Doctor carl A.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
Williams joining as chief medical Examiner Alleghany County there in Pennsylvania.
Doctor Williams, I know that you have literally performed thousands
and thousands of autopsies. How is it different for you
to perform an autopsy on a little girl?
Speaker 7 (31:19):
Yeah, children are all was difficult for emotional reasons. I mean,
the technology, what you have to do, what you have
to document is all pretty much the same, but it's
harder to separate it from the emotional content. Of dealing
with a child. So that's about all I can say.
(31:40):
You know, you can do thousands of autopsies and still
have kind of an emotional response to certain types of cases.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
So it's difficult, isn't it true?
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Chief Graf that it was the defendant himself that called
nine to one one.
Speaker 9 (31:55):
Yes, it was as sick as it makes you feel. Yeah,
he was, and just like the strict attorney Stolsteimer said
in his news conference, you know, really is the epitome
of evil. You know. He played himself as the good
family friend that he was and that the Harringtons believed
him to be, But he was.
Speaker 4 (32:15):
The one that called take a listener, our cut f
Zanstra told troopers he offered Gretchen a ride that day,
which she accepted, but Zanstra didn't drive toward the church.
Realizing it, Gretchen asked to go home. Zanstra described how
he took her to a wooded area where she refused
his demands for her to take off her clothes. That's
when Zanstra attacked, beating the girl in the head with
(32:37):
his fist, killing her. He covered her half naked body
with sticks in the woods before resuming his life.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Jarrett F.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Garantina joining me. Renowned homicide prosecutor Jarrett so often the
molester or the killer of children as a trusted family friend,
a relative, a member of the neighborhood that no one
whatever suspect.
Speaker 6 (33:01):
We know Nancy. Those predators, they operate in many instances
on trust, and it looks like Danstra built that trust
both with this family and this little girl before and after.
That's part of their weapon, that trust both in the
community and oftentimes with they're victims, and this case is
no different.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Now.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
She's been asked many times if she believes her book
brought about this arrest. Take alsafras A kyw in Our Cut.
Speaker 10 (33:31):
Eight when asked if she believes her book may have
helped police get the break they needed to make an
arrest in this case. Nearly fifty years later.
Speaker 11 (33:40):
We've been told that by Marvel Police and we're encouraged
that we somehow contributed to this. We got people talking again.
Speaker 10 (33:50):
Well, this was Joanna's first book, but she says she
does plan to revise and edit this true crime story
here to now reflect the arrest and any updated in
from about this case.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
Joanna Falcone Sullivan joining us along with Chief Brandon m. Graf, Joanna,
you're two modest. I agree with the Chief that it's
no coincidence your book comes out and then the other
little girl, now grown woman, comes forward. It's amazing in retrospect,
(34:28):
How do you feel about the journey you've been through
investigating this case.
Speaker 12 (34:34):
We never imagine this kind of outcome. You know, we
had hoped that maybe you had shed some light on
the case. We had named a prime suspect who died
in jail. We were hoping, you know, eventually DNA evidence
would come, you know, help solve this. So we never
imagine this. We had hoped for this, and you know,
(34:55):
in many ways, I'm relieved. I mean, the family will
never you know, still never get over it, you know,
but hopefully they've found some peace. I imagine it's really
hard the fact that it was someone it could be
somebody they knew and trusted.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Again, you are too humble and too modest. You and
your co author have done an amazing, amazing thing. Of course,
it could not have been done without the Marvel.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
Police, correct, Chief Grace. When you reflect on this, yes,
justice was slow in coming, but it came.
Speaker 9 (35:32):
It finally came, and you know, the wheels of justice.
We all know if they grind, they grind, Souwy, but honestly,
they don't stop, especially in cases like this, they don't stop.
When you're advocating for an eight year old girl who
can no longer speak for herself, it's our job than
(35:52):
to take that the con and speak for her and
her family and do everything we can to see that
she can rest truly in peace.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
You know, Chief Grace. I remember going to so many
crime scenes and visiting with so many crime victims families,
and they would I'd go to their home and sit
me down somewhere, usually in the living room, and I
could tell it was the best chair, and they would
look at me, expecting me to pull some kind of
(36:21):
magic trick and make everything okay. And I would always
leave feeling like crap because I couldn't make everything okay.
Speaker 2 (36:32):
Again, people look to.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
Law enforcement as if we're going to have all the
answers and we're going to find the person in a
timely manner and justice will proceed. At the end of
the day, they're going to feel better. But we're not magicians.
We can't work miracles.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Chief. I'm just amazed at what.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Your force has done of course, with the help of
Joe NFL Consulivan's.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
It's amazing to me this case was ever solved.
Speaker 7 (37:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 9 (37:03):
And it is a team effort. It always has been
and was. You know, as law enforcement we grapple with
you know, the responsibility of everyone expects prevention, right, we
want to prevent crime from happening. We know that's not possible,
so the best we can do is once a crime happens,
(37:25):
you know, now our responsibilities do everything we can to
get justice for victims. We don't know what we don't
know as far as prevention, you know, we don't know
what we prevent. But you know, the cases like this,
and I honestly can speak for all law enforcement here.
Cases like this don't ever get dusty. They really don't,
(37:46):
you know.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
To doctor Jeff Kelschewsky joining US renowned forensic psychologist and
author of Dark Sides, Doctor Jeff, you know, I was
listening to Joe NFL Coon Solomon just a few moments
ago talking about trying to help the family. And it
does help the family, it does. If she ever wonders,
if you ever wonder, Joanna, you have no idea how
(38:07):
much justice and resolution means. But dtr Klashevsky, I want
to be clear about one thing. As a victim of
violent crime myself, it changes you forever. You never quote
get over it. It changes you. It just changes your DNA
kind of. I've had people come up to me and say,
(38:27):
you know, you're nothing like you used to be before
Keith was murdered my fiance. I don't even remember that girl.
Dr Klashevski, I don't even remember what they describe to
me as how I was then and now.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
And affakes everything for the rest of your life.
Speaker 8 (38:45):
It absolutely does, And I think you really hit the
nail on the head. You don't get over something like this.
When I would work doing tree mill of folks who've
been through terms of crime, you have to try to
help them get pasted as well as they can. But
you're absolutely right, you're fundamentally changed as a person after
something like this.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
But step number one and at least moving forward with
your life in some fashion, not the way you were before,
but in some fashion. It's a resolution to what happened
to the person you loved and you, Joanna FELCN Sullivan
and you, Chief Brandon M. Graff and your department have
(39:27):
given that to this child's family, and there are no
words to thank you. Okay, one down, ten million to go, Goodbye.
Host
Nancy Grace
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