March 18, 2024 • 41 mins
Minutes after the school day ends, students from Hazelwood East High School in St. Louis County Missouri, gather to watch the end of a fight between two teen girls.
Kaylee Gain and her alleged attacker Maurnice DeClue square off and DeClue quickly gets the upper hand, pulling Gain to the ground. DeClue pummels Gain in the head and upper body. As Gain is on her back on the pavement, a bystander tries to intervene by trying to get the unnamed girl off Kaylee Gain.
The bystander is quickly rushed by two other girls who push her back from the fight and begin a separate fight of their own while Gain is being pounded by a closed fist to the head and upper body,
DeClue proceeds to pull Kaylee Gain's head about two feet above the concrete, then slams Gain's head into the cement. The first hit renders Kaylee Gain unable to defend herself as her assailant quickly pulls her back up off the concrete and lifting her head further than the first time, smashes the head of Kaylee Gain back into the cement again.
The sound of the back of her head hitting concrete is such a sickening thud, and observers realize something terrible has happened. The attacker, as well as those who have observed the beating, move on to other fights taking place while Kaylee Gain is left alone, unconscious on the pavement.
As EMTs arrive, Kaylee Gain is convulsing.
St. Louis Police stated a 15-year-old suspect has been arrested and is being held in St. Louis County Family Court on assault charges. The determination is still to be made whether DeClue will be charged as an adult.
Maurnice DeClue's family says she is the victim and has been repeatedly bullied. They say she was lured to the fight location.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Chris Slusher - Columbia, Missouri, Attorney
- Caryn L. Stark – Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych/FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice
- Barry Hutchison Sr. – Former Law Enforcement, Owner & Chief Investigator for Barry & Associates Investigative Services LLC
- Dr. Harvey Castro– Board-certified Emergency Care Physician & Healthcare Consultant, CEO of ChatGPT and Healthcare; Author: “Revolutionize your health & fitness with ChatGPT’s modern weight loss hacks;” X: @HarveycastroMD
- Alexis Tereszcuk – (CA) CrimeOnline.com Investigative Reporter, Writer/Fact Checker, Lead Stories; X: @swimmie2009
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grease a sixteen year old girl
and she just turned sixteen. For all intents and purposes,
she's still fifteen. This teen girl is in a coma
(00:27):
with bleeding to the brain. Her grandmother tells us that
she prays every night for the little girl to heal.
Why because of a beat down from another teen girl?
Wait for it. While we all stand by hoping and
(00:52):
praying that Kelly Gain lives, will she be permanently braineddamage
because it looks like she will be at the hands
of another teen who apparently is going to get the
max of around eighteen months in juvenile hall. Yes, you
(01:19):
know what that is. It's you in a dormitory style
setting where you have touchy feely therapy sessions every day,
and you go to school, you learn a trade. While
this girl may be permanently brain damaged if she lives. Hello,
(01:44):
wake up, Saint Louis this girl the purp must be
prosecuted as an adult and catch this The beat down
occurred just a couple of blows away from the high school.
And guess what the school says. We want to extend
(02:06):
our thoughts and prayers to all involved. What to all involved?
What about the little could you put that picture back up? Please?
What about little Kelly Gain lying there? She looks dead
as all of the attackers and bystanders run and scatter,
(02:31):
they leave her there. Ah ah, I'm not leaving it there.
Look at the statement from Hazelwood East High It's a tragedy.
Anytime children are hurt, bullying and fighting in the community
is an issue for which we all need to take ownership.
What does that mean, ownership and work toward resolution? What
(02:52):
does that mean put her rearan behind bars for a
good twenty That's what I call resolution for this of
our children. The Hazelwood School District offers our sincereus condolences
to everyone involved. They don't even mention killing Gain. Are
(03:13):
they extending empathy toward the attackers, because that's what it
sounds like to me. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories
and on Serious XM one eleven. I want to warn
you we're about to play the video of what happened,
and it is very, very disturbing, and if you think
(03:34):
you're gonna get upset, look away for about thirty seconds.
If you could play new York the full video and
cashay while the little girl is being beaten into a
coma some a whole technical legal term videos the whole thing.
They don't bother call nine to one one or help killing.
(03:58):
They video the whole thing. It's all like entertainment for them. Okay,
let's roll it. Video of Kelly Gain being beaten. Okay, listen,
(04:57):
you could actually hear Thistle girls. She's the same age
as my son and daughter, Lucy and John David, and
you could actually hear her head at that distance being
hit down footing against this cement. And I don't know
(05:17):
if this girl will ever be the same. I mean,
I'm just a JD. I'm not an MD, but I
don't see how this little girl can ever ever make
a comeback from that. Just another thing about the video.
You know I've told many many juries. I know you
(05:40):
want to look away. I know it's upsetting and I've
seen many a JR or WinCE and try to look away. No, No,
we have to look. We have to see, we have
to hear and know what's going on and know the
facts before we can render any type of deduction analysis
(06:02):
or judgment. You saw the video. I'm gonna play it
again video of Keillye Gaine being viciously beaten. You think she,
(07:00):
this girl, Marnie Declue, should be treated as a juvenile. Okay, fine,
you take her home and have her in your home
around your children, because there was no way in hgublel
that I would let her get near John, David and Lucy.
Did you see her go back to the victim lying there?
(07:24):
And remember, at this moment, the brain is bleeding, the
little girl is going into a comma. Did you see
Marnie Declue the attacker go back to the victim, and
she looked like a prize fighter. She was, you know,
(07:44):
jabbing and punching in the air, really like she's about
to go back into the ring with the wwe like,
jabbing and dancing around like she's about to take a
Muhammad Ali instead of helping the girl that she just horribly,
horribly maimed. With me an all star panel to make
sense of what we know right now. But first I
(08:06):
want to go out to Alexis Tereschuk, Crime Online dot
Com investigative reporter. Alexis, thank you for being with us.
Let's just start at the beginning. What happened?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So this was a school day.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Right after school in the afternoon, these students leave their school.
They walk not even five minutes away and get into
a fight, but on a public street.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
The girls start.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Fighting with each other, and the one who is obviously
twice the size of Kaylie Keyley looks like she does
not even weigh one hundred pounds. She's tiny skinning. Gets
thrown to the ground, punched in the head multiple times,
and then she's held down on the cement on the street,
picked up, slammed down over and over and over. Her
(08:48):
head is slammed into the ground. There's a whole brawl
going on. There's a melee. The girl that slammed Kaylee
then gets up and starts screaming at other people don't
hit him, don't hit him, and trying to protect a
boy that's there, but the girls the starts the fight.
People drive by and don't stop and help. Some girls
try to pull her off to help their friend, and
(09:09):
she still is the only one there. There are at
least fifteen other kids around, and none of them stop
her from repeatedly and viciously hitting her head on the street.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Guys, I want you to take a listen. Hour cut
forward This is Dave Matt from Crime Online.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Around two thirty pm, minutes after the school day ended,
students from Hazelwood East High School in Saint Louis County, Missouri,
gathered to watch the end of an altercation between two
fifteen year old girls. Profanity has heard from the crowd
as well as one of the participants. The girls square
off with arms outstretched, uncertain of what to do next.
Kaylee Gane is one of the girls in the fight,
(09:46):
her opponent unnamed, but it is the unnamed fifteen year
old girl that quickly gets the upper hand in the fight,
pulling Gain to the ground while pummeling Gane in the
head and upper body. As Gane is now on her
back on the pavement, a bystander tries to intervene by
trying to get the unnamed girl off Kayley Gain. The
bystander is quickly rushed by two other girls who push
her back from the fight and begin a separate fight
(10:08):
of their own while Gain is being pounded by a
closed fist to the head and of her body.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Guys, all of this takes time. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
I want to go to Chris Slusher, high profile lawyer
(10:36):
joining us out of this jurisdiction in Missouri. You can
find him at mid Missouri Lawyers dot com. Chris, thank
you for being with us. The reason I'm bringing up
time It all went by so quickly. When you hear
Dave Matt, the investigative reporter from crime Online describe it,
first this, then that, then this, then that as he
explains it, it takes him a minute to explain it,
(10:58):
but it all happened so quickly, as does as do
most crimes of this nature. My point is to form
intent under the law, intent to do the deed. The
law does not require a prolonged period of planning, such
as poisoning someone over a period of months. Intent to
(11:21):
do a crime can be formed in the blink of
an eye, the twinkling of a moment. The time it
takes you to grab the girl's shoulder and hit her
on the ground is time to form intent under the law.
Isn't that true, Chris Slusher?
Speaker 5 (11:39):
She can be formal very quickly, and under Missouri law.
One of the things that clearly the defense will be
looking at and the prosecution is self defense.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Oh I'm sorry, I just choked on my tea when
you said self defense spoken like a true trial lawyer.
I can see where this is going self defense, my
rear end what there was never any self defense going
on here. She beat the girl, pounding her head into
(12:12):
the cement over and over and over. So where are
you getting the self defense theory?
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Well, I think you're right. The difficulty for the juvenile
charge is not what took place when the fight started.
It's the strikes to the head to the payment. And
what the law says is what you're saying that intent
and mental states have changed during the course of events.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
So if she was reasonable in defending herself when the
fight started, that doesn't mean the force that she used
was reasonable when she caused the strikes to the head
to the pavement.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
And so you're correct about that. And that's the type
of analysis that.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Will take place, guys. Right now, apparently the prosecutor in
this jurisdiction is trying to decide whether adult charges are
going to be pursued. The reality is if they are not.
This young girl, the attacker, Marnie declue. You think this
is her first time at the rodeo? Oh no, she
(13:18):
had some moves that Mike Tyson would end thee This
is not her first time throwing a punch joining me. Also,
in addition to high profile lawyer Chris Slusher and Alexis Treschuk,
doctor Harvey Castro is joining US Board Certified Emergency Care
Physician health care consultant. Harvey, thank you for being with us.
(13:40):
Doctor Castro. Explain to me how bleeding on the brain
has occurred, And I'm looking at the grandmother's most recent statement.
She says the family is devastated and that the condition
is imminent. I'm not quite sure what she means by imminent.
(14:03):
It makes me afraid the girl is about to die.
Talking about Kelly Gang, the sixteen year old girl, it
makes me fear she's about to die. But how do
you get bleeding to the brain? And how is it
that every moment counts as all these people are standing
around taking videos and egging on the fight, every moment
(14:25):
counted for Kelly Gang.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
This is so so gud wrenching.
Speaker 7 (14:28):
As a parent, I am this extremely disturbed by seeing
this video, and as any hour doctor, it's never easy
to watch any of these things. To answer your question, Unfortunately,
what happens is we get struck into our soul, and
in this particular case, when she got struck, the injury
to the skull actually broke the skull, basically a fracture.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Okay, wait wait wait wait wait wait wait Okay. So
you're saying when her head was beaten down the cement,
not just but multiple times, even though one blow could
have done it. I mean I heard the thud, you know,
doctor Castro, when you hear say a rattlesnake, right, you
(15:14):
never forget the sound when you hear when somebody locks
and loads a shotgun. You hear that sound. You never
forget it. That thud is something you never get over
a human head being slammed down on cement, and you
(15:39):
can actually hear kind of a dull, wet sounding thud, Jackie,
Is that how you would? There's no other way to
describe it. It's sickening. It's sickening, and you know instinctively
there's no coming back from that. So you're saying that
hit and it looks like she's being hit on the
(15:59):
back of the head. You pointed to the front of
the head when you were describing it, But you're saying,
on the back of the head that would have fractured
the skull. But how does that cause bleeding to the brain,
and why is bleeding to the brain deadly?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, so there's two things going on.
Speaker 7 (16:16):
Number One, she was hid in the front and there's
this scientific phenomenon called coop countercoop, and all that means
is you get hit in the front, but the brain
actually goes back and forth and gets hit in the back.
In this particular case, she was getting hit front and back,
so it was getting multiple hits.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Okay, hold on just a sec, hold on to the sec.
I want to describe. I want doctor Harvey Castro to
explain more slowly what kup contra qup means. H I
first encountered in shaking baby syndrome, where the child is
shaken like that and the brain literally is bouncing back
and forth like a ping pong ball from the back
(16:51):
of the head to the front of the head and
the baby shaken like that. I hadn't thought about ku
contra coup. Doctor Castro, You're right, because her head is
being slammed down and looks like she's being yanked by
Is it her shoulders or her hair? I think her shoulders,
then yank back up, then slamm down again. It's a
miracle she's even still alive. But you're saying the coup,
(17:14):
countrac coup. The brain will hit the bat, then the front,
then the bat, then the front. Okay, let's go from there.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
And so think of it this way.
Speaker 7 (17:25):
We have arteries and vessels all over our brain, and
so every time we're being hit back and forth, think
of as shearing of those arteries and vessels and blood.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And to answer your.
Speaker 7 (17:35):
Second part that just think of it as two parts
rubbing on each other and causing a little cut micro
cuts on the brain. And then imagine all that swelling
that's going on, putting pressure on the brain, literally killing
the nerves of the brain. And then that blood is
also irritating the brain to the point where it's killing
(17:56):
those cells. And so within seconds we're causing that image
to this child.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Well, I guess I had it best ackwards because I thought, yes,
everything that you just said. But the brain is damaged
like a bruise. When you can kind of feel it
rise up. The brain starts to swell when it encounters
any type very delicate, any type of hit or trauma,
(18:25):
anything will make the brain start swelling up. And the
brain swells and it starts touching the skull and there's
nowhere for it to go, and that causes the brain injury.
Now is that correct?
Speaker 7 (18:39):
Yeah, well you said it's perfectly correct. I'm just going
down to the microscopic level. But what you said, there's
another mechanism of damage to the brain. Now you're mentioning
the pressure, So you're right, our skull.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
There's how much stas left between our brain.
Speaker 7 (18:52):
And our skull, and so any kind of swelling, any blood,
anything that adds volume into our brain to our skull
will cause more irritation. And because of that, we are
hurting our brain. And depending where the damage is of
our brain, we will see different functions. In this particular case,
we saw damage to the frontal low and that basically
(19:13):
creates this personality and our memory and different ways of interacting.
So that immediately that part if she got forbid, anything
bad happens, or let's say she comes back, she's going
to have permanent issues with her frontal emotional state and
just having conversations with people.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Can I tell you something, doctor Harvey Castro. Guys, you
can find doctor Harvey at Harvey Castro md dot info.
Doctor Harvey, I had a young male relative get hit
by a woman in a van with three screaming kids
in the back. He goes he was on his bike.
He goes up in the air, hits her hood and
falls on the sidewalk right there. He was airlifted the
(19:56):
Scottish righte. Long story short. At the original hospital, they
thank the Lord for a brain surgeon that was there
immediately put a shunt, a hole in his head with
sawed A shunt, which is like a tube was immediately
stuck at the top of his head to relieve that
(20:16):
swelling pressure so the brain wouldn't be hurt. And that
had to be done immediately. Do you know it took
him months to be able to learn to walk and
spell and speak again. He couldn't even color with the crayon.
(20:37):
I remember he picked the crayon up like this and
colored the first time he could call it. He didn't
remember anything. And I'm just trying to figure out how
the good good part of that is he completed college
with a double major in it and chemistry, I think
it was, and that now has a happy life with
(21:00):
a family, the works. But this little girl didn't get
that treatment, Doctor Castro. She didn't get that treatment at all.
(21:21):
Crime Stories with Nancy Greese, Karen Stark joining me, renowned
psychologists joining us out of the Manhattan jurisdiction, TV radio
trauma expert at Karenstark dot com and in case you
try to reach her, it's Karen with a C. Karenstark
dot com. Karen, I want you to look at the monitor,
and I know how you feel about violence, but force
(21:45):
yourself to look at the video again because it's not
just this girl, Marnie declue. And again, I'm telling you
this ain't her first time in the ring, no way.
She's throwing punches like a pro, but look at her behavior.
She won't stop. She's punching killy and everybody's just like
(22:10):
there are guys standing around letting it happen. Then she
races off and attacks another group. You're never gonna believe
what Jackie here on the set is telling me, but
I want you to hear this too. Listen to this,
Karen Stark. The family, the family of the defendant is
(22:32):
assisting she is the victim, claiming she has good character,
clean school record, excellent work ethic. She the attacker, is
the victim. So Karen Starks, I believe her or my
lieon eyes.
Speaker 8 (22:49):
I think we need to believe what we see, Nancy,
which is just outrageous. It's outrageous. You're looking at a
culture of aggression, looking at a school system, in my opinion,
where this is allowed to happen. Because this isn't the
first go round. This girl, woman who's attacking her is
(23:11):
obviously somebody who knows what she's doing. She's got her
fist raise, she's ready to go. She even after ignores
her and starts fighting with other people, and then, like
you said, comes back and wants to fight again. No
one pays attention to this girl who's there on the ground.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Nobody.
Speaker 8 (23:31):
They're just fighting with each other and ready to keep fighting.
So something is going on in the school too. I
would suggest that they are allowing this kind of stuff
to happen.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Now, what about that school statement, Karen Stark Hazelwood ease
no responsibility? He kiss my rear end because their statement
does not take any responsibility, and it seemingly gives quote
sincereous condolences to everyone involved. How about kale Jane, the
little girl with brain damage? How about her? I don't
(24:04):
know if since little girl is even gonna.
Speaker 8 (24:06):
Live, they're just making sure they cover all the bases.
They're saying that they're sorry for everybody involved. It just
doesn't make any sense. They want to stay out of trouble.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I want you to hear Sydney Sumner narcut five from
crime online dot Com. Listen.
Speaker 9 (24:23):
Kaylee Gane is on her back being hit in the
head when the unnamed female she is fighting puts her
weight on the smaller Gain and proceeds to pull Kaye
Gaine's head about two feet above the concrete, then slams
Gain's head into the cement. The first hit renders Kaye
Gane unable to defend herself as her assailant quickly pulls
her back up off the concrete, lifts her head up
further than the first time, and smashes the head of
(24:45):
Kaylee Gane back into the cement again. The sound of
the back of her head hitting concrete is such as
sickening thud. Observers realize something terrible has happened. The unnamed attacker,
as well as those who have observed the beating, move
on to other fights taking place, while kalle Gane is
left alone unconscious on the pavement. As EMT's arrived, Gain
is convulsing.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
What is that doctor Harvey Castro, why did Keela go
into convulsions? What are convulsions? Exactly?
Speaker 7 (25:11):
Yeah, Unfortunately, to your point where we talked about this,
the irritation of the blood into the brain is causing
the electricity that we have in our brain to go
start firing. And when it starts firing over and over,
it's causing us to have these seizure type convulsions that
they witness.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
And so that tells me two things.
Speaker 7 (25:31):
One, she was already gleaning. Two she was to your
point again, she was having increased pressure in her brain
to the point where it was swishing down on these
neurons to create this this charge, to create this seizures
like activity.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Joining me now, Barry Hutchinson, senior former law enforcement officer,
owner of Barry and Associates Investigative Services in Kansas City. Barry,
thank you for being with us. I'm sure that both
you and Chris Slusher are very familiar with this area.
Mary Hutchinson, What in the hay are they saying they
don't know if they should charge this This girl that
(26:08):
is not a girl. When I think of a girl,
I think of a you know, nineteen year old girl.
This is a full on woman and she's a violent,
vicious and aggressive. What are they talking about? They don't
know if they're charging her as an adult.
Speaker 10 (26:24):
Well, Nancy, first of all, I'm going to call it
like I see it, and I don't care who it offends.
This girl's aug she's a thug. Yes, yeah, she's a thug.
And if that, you know, if that alienates anybody for
me saying that, you know, they're just sway it is.
Anybody can watch that video and see exactly what kind
of person this is attacking this young lady. And if
(26:47):
I was still in law enforcement and was prosecuting this
case myself, i' would charge you with its attempted murder. It
would just be aggravated assault, because to me, it goes
beyond aggravated assault when she continually founds this girl's head
into the ground like a like a water melon, you know,
just beating it until it just busts over. And that's
exactly what it sounds like. It sounds like somebody taking
(27:10):
a melon and dropping it on the concrete it's sitting.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Mary Hutchison, you took the words right out of my mouth.
A she's a thug, But B I have a note here,
Aga salt, no attempted murder, Yes, because an agasalt puts
someone the victim and immediate fear of serious bodily injury,
(27:35):
immediate fear of serious body injury. For instance, if I
pull a thirty eight on you and I don't even
pull the trigger, but if I put you in immediate
fear of serious body injury under the law, that is
an aga salt. Here, You've got a repeated beat down.
(27:55):
Each thud of her head is another charge in my mind,
that is not self defense. This attacker is not the victim.
What what is upside down? What is going on in
this jurisdiction?
Speaker 10 (28:12):
Barry Well, you know, unfortunately, Nancy, it's a continuation of
the former DiscT attorney over there, Ken Gardner, in the
way that she handled a lot of things over there
and basically just refused to prosecute anybody. I'll go a
step further. I would classify this as a hate crime.
You know what would people say, you know, the al
(28:33):
Sharptons of the world that would say, if the coin
were flipped and it was the white girl that got,
you know, the best of the black girl, they'd be
running up and down margining you know, carrying on about
stuff you know, about a black child being.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Abused, you know, But if you take that factor out
of it, this is a full on aggravated assault. Chris
Slusher joining me, high profile Missouri attorney at mid Missouri
Lawyers dot com. Chris again, thank you to you and
Barry for being with us. Chris, I want to talk
to you about when juveniles get treated as adults. I
(29:12):
want to tell you the first juvenile I tried for
murder was thirteen. Was I happy about it?
Speaker 10 (29:17):
No?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I'm not happy about it. But this was a guy
that was six ' three. He broke into, well, he
didn't break into he busted into a pawn shop, and
he gunned down three people, leaving one dead and one
forever on a catheter in a wheelchair. Okay, so what
(29:41):
was I supposed to do? Give him eighteen months in
GV jail and everybody come buy y'all holding hands every
afternoon at four o'clock. No, no, uh huh. So I'm
not happy if thirteen year old was tried for murder?
Was it the right thing to do? Yes? Did it
taste good going down?
Speaker 8 (30:00):
No?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
It didn't. But it was still justice. This is the
way it works and correct me if I'm wrong in
that jurisdiction. In many jurisdictions, there are seven deadly sins
called DFA's designated felony, attempts assaults. The designated felonies are,
(30:23):
for instance, murder, rape, armed robbery, trafficking drugs, our sun,
child molestation, and aggravated assault. You will get transferred to
adult court for the seven designated felonies. Now, normally there's
(30:47):
a bind over hearing where the case is bound or
transferred over from juvenile court to superior or adult court.
Tell me how does it work in your jurisdiction. How
am I going to get Marnie's de clue prosecuted as
an adult?
Speaker 5 (31:07):
Well, it works in a similar way. The most likely charged,
based on what I've observed under Missouri law is probably
the soul first degree, which is attempting to kill or
knowingly causing serious physical injury. And so what will happen
is the juvenile office will make a charging decision.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
What the juvenile office makes this decision? Uh oh, we're
all up the creek without a paddle, because everybody knows.
In juvenile you bring in psychologists, you all sit around,
no offense care and start you sit around and go, wow,
why did this happen? Was the defendant in an unfortunate
(31:46):
setting as a child. That may all be true, and
I don't like it, but that does not help the victim.
What the juvenile court decides?
Speaker 5 (31:56):
The juvenile court decides the charge, and then we have
a system of its charge assault first says you've described
that then automatically requires what we call a certification here,
and then the things that you just described that you
don't care for about the juvenile process will take place.
There will be background reports and those types of things,
(32:18):
and then a judge will make a decision about whether
the case will then be certified as an adult case
and be transferred into the prosecute attorney's office in the
adult court.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
So who makes that ultimate decision as to whether this
girl Marnie's declue is going to be treated as an adult?
Who's making that decision.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
Judging the juvenile court, which is it's always the most
friendly defense venue for us.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
So a juvenile judge is going to make this decision.
It's not bound over in the district attorney decides.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
No, the juvenile judge makes the decision about a certification.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
As an adult.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah. I don't like that at all. And now we've
got moanings and groanings. Alectis torush, Please tell me it's
not true that the attacker's family is saying she's the victim,
that she was lured there and didn't know anything about
a fight. I mean, listen, when I'm with the twins,
Alexis and you have a young boy, if I smell trouble,
(33:14):
I get them out of there. You know how many
times I want to have road rage or bless somebody out,
but I don't do it because it's not safe. They
are more important than me feeling better after an incident
of some sort. My point is nobody lured her there.
That is a lie, and if she saw a fight brewing,
(33:37):
she could have left.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
What people are saying is that the girls had they
were going to fight, they were together, but they Kaylee
attacked first. They're saying that she charged at the other girl,
and that's why the other girl said that she had
to defend herself. That's what they are saying. That's the
excuse that's coming out for this. They Kaylee charged first,
she threw the first punch, and so therefore that this
(33:59):
absolute beat was justified because she was defending herself. That
is what their side is saying.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Oh okay, So with that theory, Barry Hudgeson's senior former
veteran law enforcement now runs Burying Associates Investigative Services. Barry,
in that scenario that Alexis Tereschuk is trying to feed
me with a silver spoon, I'm not swallowing Alexis.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
Just know that.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
You could slap me, Barry, and then I could pull
out my ouzy and just shoot you right in the head,
and that would be fine because you slapped me first.
Speaker 10 (34:33):
That's not right now the level of threat, and once
the level of threat is stopped to words, it's not
necessary to escalate the amount of force that goes out
the window. So I don't see I don't see that here.
What I see is the young lady that performed to
beat down. I see her as being the definitely being
(34:56):
there over zettous.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Are you calling her a young lady? She looks like
a professional fighter. She like a professional kickbox fighter. She's
using it all wrestling, moves, punches and footwork like a butterfly. Guys,
I want you to hear our friend Nicole Parton Crime online.
Speaker 11 (35:22):
According to a GoFundMe fundraiser set up by a family friend,
Kaylee Gain was left alone on the ground to convulse
before EMT's arrived on the scene. Police and rescue squad
units arrive. Kaylee Gain is taken to the hospital where
she is listed in critical condition with a skull fracture,
(35:42):
frontal lobe damage, major brain bleeding, and swelling. The extent
of brain damage will not be determined until Kaylee Gain wakes.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
The grandmother is telling us that little Kelly's head was
smashed into a cement concrete. Rudd and the doctors are
saying that they won't know the extent of the brain
damage until the little girl wakes up. To doctor Harvey
Castro joining us, harveycastromd dot info, Doctor Harvey, is that true,
(36:17):
they can't tell any level of brain damage until Kelly
wakes up.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
To some extent, you can find out very minimal.
Speaker 7 (36:26):
You can put some electrodes of the brain and see
what activity is going on, but you really can't test
anything until you actually speak to the patient and see
what they're able to say. It's true, and unfortunately it's
a waiting game. We're just literally just waiting and we're
doing everything we can to minimize the damage, like you
said earlier, opening the skull or leading the pressure, but
we really won't know what's going on until we actually
(36:48):
have a conversation with her.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I know a little bit more, Dr Harvey Castro. According
to the family, we have learned that Kelly suffered, as
you pointed out earlier at skull fracture in frontal lobe damage,
which goes back to what you were describing as the
coup contract coup because in the video you can see
her head is being slammed down on cement from behind,
(37:13):
but the frontal lobe damp. There is frontal lobe damage
as well. And of course I'm not an MD, but
I assume that means the front of your brain major
brain bleeding and swelling. Does any of that change your opinion?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 7 (37:31):
Unfortunately I have I'm hopeful that she turns the corner,
but I'm worried that this is going to be her
unfortunately now.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
And what about Alexis Tereshchuk. All the little harpies gathered
around not doing a thing. One girl did try to
pull Marnie de Clue off the victim and the clue
swung at her as well, but the others were not
trying to help. They were videoing in in jeering, and
(38:01):
then they leave the girl to bring blead on the road,
and passers by, adults driving do nothing.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
That's one girl tried to help her, her friend with
scrimmy get off of her and she pulled her, and
then another girl jumped on her and attacked her and
started throwing a punch at her.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
So she did throw up.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Nobody stopped. Nobody tried to help this at all. Once
the vicious meeting. Once she started pounding her on the ground,
even one two, multiple times, nobody stepped in. And then
there are all these fights going on all around it.
And then you can see the girl, Kaylee's lying on
the ground. Her attacker gets up and goes and tries
to defend a boy saying keep your hands off of him,
(38:39):
and dragging someone else, and then just standing around. No
one helps this girl. No one goes up to her,
even her friend that had tried to help. I don't
know if it's her friend. Even the other girl that
tried to help her doesn't go back and try to
see what's going on at all. Nobody helped this little
girl as she was lying.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
On the ground.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
For everyone that wants this defendant, this attacker to be
treated as as a juvenile and get out of Juvi
jail as it's called, it's more like a dorm setting
in a few months. You take her home to your
home and let her be around your children, because I
don't want her. I wouldn't let her within ten feet
(39:15):
of either one of my twins. Oh no, So think
long and hard before you advocate this girl getting out,
and again, I can guarantee you this is not her
first time throwing a punch. Do you want your voice
to be heard? Because I do. The district Attorney is
Gabriel Gore g r. E at three one four six
(39:41):
two two four nine four one. I've got a funny
feeling this is going to go over Gore's head because
I see those signs of Gore doing anything appropriate. The
Attorney General is Andrew Bailey five seven three seven five
one three three to one. Or if you don't want
(40:03):
your number associated with the call, you can write Consumer
dot Help at Ago dot mo dot gov. We've been
assured a hearing will occur within a week to determine
if this attacker Marnise Deuclue will be treated as an adult.
(40:30):
Right now, all we can do is pray. Pray for
this girl, Killie gain tipline eight sixty six three seven
one tips eight six six three seven one eight four
seven seven. What if anything, do you know about the
suspect's movements before, during, and after? Did she brag? Did
(40:54):
she go on social media and brag? Did she talk
about what happened? If so, what did she say? What
does she do with her bloody clothes? What were her
movements and actions following this attack? And remember, Kelly Gaines
will likely be left if she lives with permanent brain damage.
(41:19):
We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grease a sixteen year old girl
and she just turned sixteen. For all intents and purposes,
she's still fifteen. This teen girl is in a coma
(00:27):
with bleeding to the brain. Her grandmother tells us that
she prays every night for the little girl to heal.
Why because of a beat down from another teen girl?
Wait for it. While we all stand by hoping and
(00:52):
praying that Kelly Gain lives, will she be permanently braineddamage
because it looks like she will be at the hands
of another teen who apparently is going to get the
max of around eighteen months in juvenile hall. Yes, you
(01:19):
know what that is. It's you in a dormitory style
setting where you have touchy feely therapy sessions every day,
and you go to school, you learn a trade. While
this girl may be permanently brain damaged if she lives. Hello,
(01:44):
wake up, Saint Louis this girl the purp must be
prosecuted as an adult and catch this The beat down
occurred just a couple of blows away from the high school.
And guess what the school says. We want to extend
(02:06):
our thoughts and prayers to all involved. What to all involved?
What about the little could you put that picture back up? Please?
What about little Kelly Gain lying there? She looks dead
as all of the attackers and bystanders run and scatter,
(02:31):
they leave her there. Ah ah, I'm not leaving it there.
Look at the statement from Hazelwood East High It's a tragedy.
Anytime children are hurt, bullying and fighting in the community
is an issue for which we all need to take ownership.
What does that mean, ownership and work toward resolution? What
(02:52):
does that mean put her rearan behind bars for a
good twenty That's what I call resolution for this of
our children. The Hazelwood School District offers our sincereus condolences
to everyone involved. They don't even mention killing Gain. Are
(03:13):
they extending empathy toward the attackers, because that's what it
sounds like to me. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
Thank you for being with us here at Crime Stories
and on Serious XM one eleven. I want to warn
you we're about to play the video of what happened,
and it is very, very disturbing, and if you think
(03:34):
you're gonna get upset, look away for about thirty seconds.
If you could play new York the full video and
cashay while the little girl is being beaten into a
coma some a whole technical legal term videos the whole thing.
They don't bother call nine to one one or help killing.
(03:58):
They video the whole thing. It's all like entertainment for them. Okay,
let's roll it. Video of Kelly Gain being beaten. Okay, listen,
(04:57):
you could actually hear Thistle girls. She's the same age
as my son and daughter, Lucy and John David, and
you could actually hear her head at that distance being
hit down footing against this cement. And I don't know
(05:17):
if this girl will ever be the same. I mean,
I'm just a JD. I'm not an MD, but I
don't see how this little girl can ever ever make
a comeback from that. Just another thing about the video.
You know I've told many many juries. I know you
(05:40):
want to look away. I know it's upsetting and I've
seen many a JR or WinCE and try to look away. No, No,
we have to look. We have to see, we have
to hear and know what's going on and know the
facts before we can render any type of deduction analysis
(06:02):
or judgment. You saw the video. I'm gonna play it
again video of Keillye Gaine being viciously beaten. You think she,
(07:00):
this girl, Marnie Declue, should be treated as a juvenile. Okay, fine,
you take her home and have her in your home
around your children, because there was no way in hgublel
that I would let her get near John, David and Lucy.
Did you see her go back to the victim lying there?
(07:24):
And remember, at this moment, the brain is bleeding, the
little girl is going into a comma. Did you see
Marnie Declue the attacker go back to the victim, and
she looked like a prize fighter. She was, you know,
(07:44):
jabbing and punching in the air, really like she's about
to go back into the ring with the wwe like,
jabbing and dancing around like she's about to take a
Muhammad Ali instead of helping the girl that she just horribly,
horribly maimed. With me an all star panel to make
sense of what we know right now. But first I
(08:06):
want to go out to Alexis Tereschuk, Crime Online dot
Com investigative reporter. Alexis, thank you for being with us.
Let's just start at the beginning. What happened?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So this was a school day.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
Right after school in the afternoon, these students leave their school.
They walk not even five minutes away and get into
a fight, but on a public street.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
The girls start.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Fighting with each other, and the one who is obviously
twice the size of Kaylie Keyley looks like she does
not even weigh one hundred pounds. She's tiny skinning. Gets
thrown to the ground, punched in the head multiple times,
and then she's held down on the cement on the street,
picked up, slammed down over and over and over. Her
(08:48):
head is slammed into the ground. There's a whole brawl
going on. There's a melee. The girl that slammed Kaylee
then gets up and starts screaming at other people don't
hit him, don't hit him, and trying to protect a
boy that's there, but the girls the starts the fight.
People drive by and don't stop and help. Some girls
try to pull her off to help their friend, and
(09:09):
she still is the only one there. There are at
least fifteen other kids around, and none of them stop
her from repeatedly and viciously hitting her head on the street.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
Guys, I want you to take a listen. Hour cut
forward This is Dave Matt from Crime Online.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
Around two thirty pm, minutes after the school day ended,
students from Hazelwood East High School in Saint Louis County, Missouri,
gathered to watch the end of an altercation between two
fifteen year old girls. Profanity has heard from the crowd
as well as one of the participants. The girls square
off with arms outstretched, uncertain of what to do next.
Kaylee Gane is one of the girls in the fight,
(09:46):
her opponent unnamed, but it is the unnamed fifteen year
old girl that quickly gets the upper hand in the fight,
pulling Gain to the ground while pummeling Gane in the
head and upper body. As Gane is now on her
back on the pavement, a bystander tries to intervene by
trying to get the unnamed girl off Kayley Gain. The
bystander is quickly rushed by two other girls who push
her back from the fight and begin a separate fight
(10:08):
of their own while Gain is being pounded by a
closed fist to the head and of her body.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Guys, all of this takes time. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
I want to go to Chris Slusher, high profile lawyer
(10:36):
joining us out of this jurisdiction in Missouri. You can
find him at mid Missouri Lawyers dot com. Chris, thank
you for being with us. The reason I'm bringing up
time It all went by so quickly. When you hear
Dave Matt, the investigative reporter from crime Online describe it,
first this, then that, then this, then that as he
explains it, it takes him a minute to explain it,
(10:58):
but it all happened so quickly, as does as do
most crimes of this nature. My point is to form
intent under the law, intent to do the deed. The
law does not require a prolonged period of planning, such
as poisoning someone over a period of months. Intent to
(11:21):
do a crime can be formed in the blink of
an eye, the twinkling of a moment. The time it
takes you to grab the girl's shoulder and hit her
on the ground is time to form intent under the law.
Isn't that true, Chris Slusher?
Speaker 5 (11:39):
She can be formal very quickly, and under Missouri law.
One of the things that clearly the defense will be
looking at and the prosecution is self defense.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
Oh I'm sorry, I just choked on my tea when
you said self defense spoken like a true trial lawyer.
I can see where this is going self defense, my
rear end what there was never any self defense going
on here. She beat the girl, pounding her head into
(12:12):
the cement over and over and over. So where are
you getting the self defense theory?
Speaker 5 (12:18):
Well, I think you're right. The difficulty for the juvenile
charge is not what took place when the fight started.
It's the strikes to the head to the payment. And
what the law says is what you're saying that intent
and mental states have changed during the course of events.
Speaker 6 (12:37):
So if she was reasonable in defending herself when the
fight started, that doesn't mean the force that she used
was reasonable when she caused the strikes to the head
to the pavement.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
And so you're correct about that. And that's the type
of analysis that.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Will take place, guys. Right now, apparently the prosecutor in
this jurisdiction is trying to decide whether adult charges are
going to be pursued. The reality is if they are not.
This young girl, the attacker, Marnie declue. You think this
is her first time at the rodeo? Oh no, she
(13:18):
had some moves that Mike Tyson would end thee This
is not her first time throwing a punch joining me. Also,
in addition to high profile lawyer Chris Slusher and Alexis Treschuk,
doctor Harvey Castro is joining US Board Certified Emergency Care
Physician health care consultant. Harvey, thank you for being with us.
(13:40):
Doctor Castro. Explain to me how bleeding on the brain
has occurred, And I'm looking at the grandmother's most recent statement.
She says the family is devastated and that the condition
is imminent. I'm not quite sure what she means by imminent.
(14:03):
It makes me afraid the girl is about to die.
Talking about Kelly Gang, the sixteen year old girl, it
makes me fear she's about to die. But how do
you get bleeding to the brain? And how is it
that every moment counts as all these people are standing
around taking videos and egging on the fight, every moment
(14:25):
counted for Kelly Gang.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
This is so so gud wrenching.
Speaker 7 (14:28):
As a parent, I am this extremely disturbed by seeing
this video, and as any hour doctor, it's never easy
to watch any of these things. To answer your question, Unfortunately,
what happens is we get struck into our soul, and
in this particular case, when she got struck, the injury
to the skull actually broke the skull, basically a fracture.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Okay, wait wait wait wait wait wait wait Okay. So
you're saying when her head was beaten down the cement,
not just but multiple times, even though one blow could
have done it. I mean I heard the thud, you know,
doctor Castro, when you hear say a rattlesnake, right, you
(15:14):
never forget the sound when you hear when somebody locks
and loads a shotgun. You hear that sound. You never
forget it. That thud is something you never get over
a human head being slammed down on cement, and you
(15:39):
can actually hear kind of a dull, wet sounding thud, Jackie,
Is that how you would? There's no other way to
describe it. It's sickening. It's sickening, and you know instinctively
there's no coming back from that. So you're saying that
hit and it looks like she's being hit on the
(15:59):
back of the head. You pointed to the front of
the head when you were describing it, But you're saying,
on the back of the head that would have fractured
the skull. But how does that cause bleeding to the brain,
and why is bleeding to the brain deadly?
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, so there's two things going on.
Speaker 7 (16:16):
Number One, she was hid in the front and there's
this scientific phenomenon called coop countercoop, and all that means
is you get hit in the front, but the brain
actually goes back and forth and gets hit in the back.
In this particular case, she was getting hit front and back,
so it was getting multiple hits.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Okay, hold on just a sec, hold on to the sec.
I want to describe. I want doctor Harvey Castro to
explain more slowly what kup contra qup means. H I
first encountered in shaking baby syndrome, where the child is
shaken like that and the brain literally is bouncing back
and forth like a ping pong ball from the back
(16:51):
of the head to the front of the head and
the baby shaken like that. I hadn't thought about ku
contra coup. Doctor Castro, You're right, because her head is
being slammed down and looks like she's being yanked by
Is it her shoulders or her hair? I think her shoulders,
then yank back up, then slamm down again. It's a
miracle she's even still alive. But you're saying the coup,
(17:14):
countrac coup. The brain will hit the bat, then the front,
then the bat, then the front. Okay, let's go from there.
Speaker 2 (17:24):
And so think of it this way.
Speaker 7 (17:25):
We have arteries and vessels all over our brain, and
so every time we're being hit back and forth, think
of as shearing of those arteries and vessels and blood.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
And to answer your.
Speaker 7 (17:35):
Second part that just think of it as two parts
rubbing on each other and causing a little cut micro
cuts on the brain. And then imagine all that swelling
that's going on, putting pressure on the brain, literally killing
the nerves of the brain. And then that blood is
also irritating the brain to the point where it's killing
(17:56):
those cells. And so within seconds we're causing that image
to this child.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
Well, I guess I had it best ackwards because I thought, yes,
everything that you just said. But the brain is damaged
like a bruise. When you can kind of feel it
rise up. The brain starts to swell when it encounters
any type very delicate, any type of hit or trauma,
(18:25):
anything will make the brain start swelling up. And the
brain swells and it starts touching the skull and there's
nowhere for it to go, and that causes the brain injury.
Now is that correct?
Speaker 7 (18:39):
Yeah, well you said it's perfectly correct. I'm just going
down to the microscopic level. But what you said, there's
another mechanism of damage to the brain. Now you're mentioning
the pressure, So you're right, our skull.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
There's how much stas left between our brain.
Speaker 7 (18:52):
And our skull, and so any kind of swelling, any blood,
anything that adds volume into our brain to our skull
will cause more irritation. And because of that, we are
hurting our brain. And depending where the damage is of
our brain, we will see different functions. In this particular case,
we saw damage to the frontal low and that basically
(19:13):
creates this personality and our memory and different ways of interacting.
So that immediately that part if she got forbid, anything
bad happens, or let's say she comes back, she's going
to have permanent issues with her frontal emotional state and
just having conversations with people.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Can I tell you something, doctor Harvey Castro. Guys, you
can find doctor Harvey at Harvey Castro md dot info.
Doctor Harvey, I had a young male relative get hit
by a woman in a van with three screaming kids
in the back. He goes he was on his bike.
He goes up in the air, hits her hood and
falls on the sidewalk right there. He was airlifted the
(19:56):
Scottish righte. Long story short. At the original hospital, they
thank the Lord for a brain surgeon that was there
immediately put a shunt, a hole in his head with
sawed A shunt, which is like a tube was immediately
stuck at the top of his head to relieve that
(20:16):
swelling pressure so the brain wouldn't be hurt. And that
had to be done immediately. Do you know it took
him months to be able to learn to walk and
spell and speak again. He couldn't even color with the crayon.
(20:37):
I remember he picked the crayon up like this and
colored the first time he could call it. He didn't
remember anything. And I'm just trying to figure out how
the good good part of that is he completed college
with a double major in it and chemistry, I think
it was, and that now has a happy life with
(21:00):
a family, the works. But this little girl didn't get
that treatment, Doctor Castro. She didn't get that treatment at all.
(21:21):
Crime Stories with Nancy Greese, Karen Stark joining me, renowned
psychologists joining us out of the Manhattan jurisdiction, TV radio
trauma expert at Karenstark dot com and in case you
try to reach her, it's Karen with a C. Karenstark
dot com. Karen, I want you to look at the monitor,
and I know how you feel about violence, but force
(21:45):
yourself to look at the video again because it's not
just this girl, Marnie declue. And again, I'm telling you
this ain't her first time in the ring, no way.
She's throwing punches like a pro, but look at her behavior.
She won't stop. She's punching killy and everybody's just like
(22:10):
there are guys standing around letting it happen. Then she
races off and attacks another group. You're never gonna believe
what Jackie here on the set is telling me, but
I want you to hear this too. Listen to this,
Karen Stark. The family, the family of the defendant is
(22:32):
assisting she is the victim, claiming she has good character,
clean school record, excellent work ethic. She the attacker, is
the victim. So Karen Starks, I believe her or my
lieon eyes.
Speaker 8 (22:49):
I think we need to believe what we see, Nancy,
which is just outrageous. It's outrageous. You're looking at a
culture of aggression, looking at a school system, in my opinion,
where this is allowed to happen. Because this isn't the
first go round. This girl, woman who's attacking her is
(23:11):
obviously somebody who knows what she's doing. She's got her
fist raise, she's ready to go. She even after ignores
her and starts fighting with other people, and then, like
you said, comes back and wants to fight again. No
one pays attention to this girl who's there on the ground.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Nobody.
Speaker 8 (23:31):
They're just fighting with each other and ready to keep fighting.
So something is going on in the school too. I
would suggest that they are allowing this kind of stuff
to happen.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Now, what about that school statement, Karen Stark Hazelwood ease
no responsibility? He kiss my rear end because their statement
does not take any responsibility, and it seemingly gives quote
sincereous condolences to everyone involved. How about kale Jane, the
little girl with brain damage? How about her? I don't
(24:04):
know if since little girl is even gonna.
Speaker 8 (24:06):
Live, they're just making sure they cover all the bases.
They're saying that they're sorry for everybody involved. It just
doesn't make any sense. They want to stay out of trouble.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I want you to hear Sydney Sumner narcut five from
crime online dot Com. Listen.
Speaker 9 (24:23):
Kaylee Gane is on her back being hit in the
head when the unnamed female she is fighting puts her
weight on the smaller Gain and proceeds to pull Kaye
Gaine's head about two feet above the concrete, then slams
Gain's head into the cement. The first hit renders Kaye
Gane unable to defend herself as her assailant quickly pulls
her back up off the concrete, lifts her head up
further than the first time, and smashes the head of
(24:45):
Kaylee Gane back into the cement again. The sound of
the back of her head hitting concrete is such as
sickening thud. Observers realize something terrible has happened. The unnamed attacker,
as well as those who have observed the beating, move
on to other fights taking place, while kalle Gane is
left alone unconscious on the pavement. As EMT's arrived, Gain
is convulsing.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
What is that doctor Harvey Castro, why did Keela go
into convulsions? What are convulsions? Exactly?
Speaker 7 (25:11):
Yeah, Unfortunately, to your point where we talked about this,
the irritation of the blood into the brain is causing
the electricity that we have in our brain to go
start firing. And when it starts firing over and over,
it's causing us to have these seizure type convulsions that
they witness.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
And so that tells me two things.
Speaker 7 (25:31):
One, she was already gleaning. Two she was to your
point again, she was having increased pressure in her brain
to the point where it was swishing down on these
neurons to create this this charge, to create this seizures
like activity.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Joining me now, Barry Hutchinson, senior former law enforcement officer,
owner of Barry and Associates Investigative Services in Kansas City. Barry,
thank you for being with us. I'm sure that both
you and Chris Slusher are very familiar with this area.
Mary Hutchinson, What in the hay are they saying they
don't know if they should charge this This girl that
(26:08):
is not a girl. When I think of a girl,
I think of a you know, nineteen year old girl.
This is a full on woman and she's a violent,
vicious and aggressive. What are they talking about? They don't
know if they're charging her as an adult.
Speaker 10 (26:24):
Well, Nancy, first of all, I'm going to call it
like I see it, and I don't care who it offends.
This girl's aug she's a thug. Yes, yeah, she's a thug.
And if that, you know, if that alienates anybody for
me saying that, you know, they're just sway it is.
Anybody can watch that video and see exactly what kind
of person this is attacking this young lady. And if
(26:47):
I was still in law enforcement and was prosecuting this
case myself, i' would charge you with its attempted murder. It
would just be aggravated assault, because to me, it goes
beyond aggravated assault when she continually founds this girl's head
into the ground like a like a water melon, you know,
just beating it until it just busts over. And that's
exactly what it sounds like. It sounds like somebody taking
(27:10):
a melon and dropping it on the concrete it's sitting.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Mary Hutchison, you took the words right out of my mouth.
A she's a thug, But B I have a note here,
Aga salt, no attempted murder, Yes, because an agasalt puts
someone the victim and immediate fear of serious bodily injury,
(27:35):
immediate fear of serious body injury. For instance, if I
pull a thirty eight on you and I don't even
pull the trigger, but if I put you in immediate
fear of serious body injury under the law, that is
an aga salt. Here, You've got a repeated beat down.
(27:55):
Each thud of her head is another charge in my mind,
that is not self defense. This attacker is not the victim.
What what is upside down? What is going on in
this jurisdiction?
Speaker 10 (28:12):
Barry Well, you know, unfortunately, Nancy, it's a continuation of
the former DiscT attorney over there, Ken Gardner, in the
way that she handled a lot of things over there
and basically just refused to prosecute anybody. I'll go a
step further. I would classify this as a hate crime.
You know what would people say, you know, the al
(28:33):
Sharptons of the world that would say, if the coin
were flipped and it was the white girl that got,
you know, the best of the black girl, they'd be
running up and down margining you know, carrying on about
stuff you know, about a black child being.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Abused, you know, But if you take that factor out
of it, this is a full on aggravated assault. Chris
Slusher joining me, high profile Missouri attorney at mid Missouri
Lawyers dot com. Chris again, thank you to you and
Barry for being with us. Chris, I want to talk
to you about when juveniles get treated as adults. I
(29:12):
want to tell you the first juvenile I tried for
murder was thirteen. Was I happy about it?
Speaker 10 (29:17):
No?
Speaker 1 (29:17):
I'm not happy about it. But this was a guy
that was six ' three. He broke into, well, he
didn't break into he busted into a pawn shop, and
he gunned down three people, leaving one dead and one
forever on a catheter in a wheelchair. Okay, so what
(29:41):
was I supposed to do? Give him eighteen months in
GV jail and everybody come buy y'all holding hands every
afternoon at four o'clock. No, no, uh huh. So I'm
not happy if thirteen year old was tried for murder?
Was it the right thing to do? Yes? Did it
taste good going down?
Speaker 8 (30:00):
No?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
It didn't. But it was still justice. This is the
way it works and correct me if I'm wrong in
that jurisdiction. In many jurisdictions, there are seven deadly sins
called DFA's designated felony, attempts assaults. The designated felonies are,
(30:23):
for instance, murder, rape, armed robbery, trafficking drugs, our sun,
child molestation, and aggravated assault. You will get transferred to
adult court for the seven designated felonies. Now, normally there's
(30:47):
a bind over hearing where the case is bound or
transferred over from juvenile court to superior or adult court.
Tell me how does it work in your jurisdiction. How
am I going to get Marnie's de clue prosecuted as
an adult?
Speaker 5 (31:07):
Well, it works in a similar way. The most likely charged,
based on what I've observed under Missouri law is probably
the soul first degree, which is attempting to kill or
knowingly causing serious physical injury. And so what will happen
is the juvenile office will make a charging decision.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
What the juvenile office makes this decision? Uh oh, we're
all up the creek without a paddle, because everybody knows.
In juvenile you bring in psychologists, you all sit around,
no offense care and start you sit around and go, wow,
why did this happen? Was the defendant in an unfortunate
(31:46):
setting as a child. That may all be true, and
I don't like it, but that does not help the victim.
What the juvenile court decides?
Speaker 5 (31:56):
The juvenile court decides the charge, and then we have
a system of its charge assault first says you've described
that then automatically requires what we call a certification here,
and then the things that you just described that you
don't care for about the juvenile process will take place.
There will be background reports and those types of things,
(32:18):
and then a judge will make a decision about whether
the case will then be certified as an adult case
and be transferred into the prosecute attorney's office in the
adult court.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
So who makes that ultimate decision as to whether this
girl Marnie's declue is going to be treated as an adult?
Who's making that decision.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
Judging the juvenile court, which is it's always the most
friendly defense venue for us.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
So a juvenile judge is going to make this decision.
It's not bound over in the district attorney decides.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
No, the juvenile judge makes the decision about a certification.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
As an adult.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
Yeah. I don't like that at all. And now we've
got moanings and groanings. Alectis torush, Please tell me it's
not true that the attacker's family is saying she's the victim,
that she was lured there and didn't know anything about
a fight. I mean, listen, when I'm with the twins,
Alexis and you have a young boy, if I smell trouble,
(33:14):
I get them out of there. You know how many
times I want to have road rage or bless somebody out,
but I don't do it because it's not safe. They
are more important than me feeling better after an incident
of some sort. My point is nobody lured her there.
That is a lie, and if she saw a fight brewing,
(33:37):
she could have left.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
What people are saying is that the girls had they
were going to fight, they were together, but they Kaylee
attacked first. They're saying that she charged at the other girl,
and that's why the other girl said that she had
to defend herself. That's what they are saying. That's the
excuse that's coming out for this. They Kaylee charged first,
she threw the first punch, and so therefore that this
(33:59):
absolute beat was justified because she was defending herself. That
is what their side is saying.
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Oh okay, So with that theory, Barry Hudgeson's senior former
veteran law enforcement now runs Burying Associates Investigative Services. Barry,
in that scenario that Alexis Tereschuk is trying to feed
me with a silver spoon, I'm not swallowing Alexis.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
Just know that.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
You could slap me, Barry, and then I could pull
out my ouzy and just shoot you right in the head,
and that would be fine because you slapped me first.
Speaker 10 (34:33):
That's not right now the level of threat, and once
the level of threat is stopped to words, it's not
necessary to escalate the amount of force that goes out
the window. So I don't see I don't see that here.
What I see is the young lady that performed to
beat down. I see her as being the definitely being
(34:56):
there over zettous.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
Are you calling her a young lady? She looks like
a professional fighter. She like a professional kickbox fighter. She's
using it all wrestling, moves, punches and footwork like a butterfly. Guys,
I want you to hear our friend Nicole Parton Crime online.
Speaker 11 (35:22):
According to a GoFundMe fundraiser set up by a family friend,
Kaylee Gain was left alone on the ground to convulse
before EMT's arrived on the scene. Police and rescue squad
units arrive. Kaylee Gain is taken to the hospital where
she is listed in critical condition with a skull fracture,
(35:42):
frontal lobe damage, major brain bleeding, and swelling. The extent
of brain damage will not be determined until Kaylee Gain wakes.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
The grandmother is telling us that little Kelly's head was
smashed into a cement concrete. Rudd and the doctors are
saying that they won't know the extent of the brain
damage until the little girl wakes up. To doctor Harvey
Castro joining us, harveycastromd dot info, Doctor Harvey, is that true,
(36:17):
they can't tell any level of brain damage until Kelly
wakes up.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
To some extent, you can find out very minimal.
Speaker 7 (36:26):
You can put some electrodes of the brain and see
what activity is going on, but you really can't test
anything until you actually speak to the patient and see
what they're able to say. It's true, and unfortunately it's
a waiting game. We're just literally just waiting and we're
doing everything we can to minimize the damage, like you
said earlier, opening the skull or leading the pressure, but
we really won't know what's going on until we actually
(36:48):
have a conversation with her.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
I know a little bit more, Dr Harvey Castro. According
to the family, we have learned that Kelly suffered, as
you pointed out earlier at skull fracture in frontal lobe damage,
which goes back to what you were describing as the
coup contract coup because in the video you can see
her head is being slammed down on cement from behind,
(37:13):
but the frontal lobe damp. There is frontal lobe damage
as well. And of course I'm not an MD, but
I assume that means the front of your brain major
brain bleeding and swelling. Does any of that change your opinion?
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.
Speaker 7 (37:31):
Unfortunately I have I'm hopeful that she turns the corner,
but I'm worried that this is going to be her
unfortunately now.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
And what about Alexis Tereshchuk. All the little harpies gathered
around not doing a thing. One girl did try to
pull Marnie de Clue off the victim and the clue
swung at her as well, but the others were not
trying to help. They were videoing in in jeering, and
(38:01):
then they leave the girl to bring blead on the road,
and passers by, adults driving do nothing.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
That's one girl tried to help her, her friend with
scrimmy get off of her and she pulled her, and
then another girl jumped on her and attacked her and
started throwing a punch at her.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
So she did throw up.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
Nobody stopped. Nobody tried to help this at all. Once
the vicious meeting. Once she started pounding her on the ground,
even one two, multiple times, nobody stepped in. And then
there are all these fights going on all around it.
And then you can see the girl, Kaylee's lying on
the ground. Her attacker gets up and goes and tries
to defend a boy saying keep your hands off of him,
(38:39):
and dragging someone else, and then just standing around. No
one helps this girl. No one goes up to her,
even her friend that had tried to help. I don't
know if it's her friend. Even the other girl that
tried to help her doesn't go back and try to
see what's going on at all. Nobody helped this little
girl as she was lying.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
On the ground.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
For everyone that wants this defendant, this attacker to be
treated as as a juvenile and get out of Juvi
jail as it's called, it's more like a dorm setting
in a few months. You take her home to your
home and let her be around your children, because I
don't want her. I wouldn't let her within ten feet
(39:15):
of either one of my twins. Oh no, So think
long and hard before you advocate this girl getting out,
and again, I can guarantee you this is not her
first time throwing a punch. Do you want your voice
to be heard? Because I do. The district Attorney is
Gabriel Gore g r. E at three one four six
(39:41):
two two four nine four one. I've got a funny
feeling this is going to go over Gore's head because
I see those signs of Gore doing anything appropriate. The
Attorney General is Andrew Bailey five seven three seven five
one three three to one. Or if you don't want
(40:03):
your number associated with the call, you can write Consumer
dot Help at Ago dot mo dot gov. We've been
assured a hearing will occur within a week to determine
if this attacker Marnise Deuclue will be treated as an adult.
(40:30):
Right now, all we can do is pray. Pray for
this girl, Killie gain tipline eight sixty six three seven
one tips eight six six three seven one eight four
seven seven. What if anything, do you know about the
suspect's movements before, during, and after? Did she brag? Did
(40:54):
she go on social media and brag? Did she talk
about what happened? If so, what did she say? What
does she do with her bloody clothes? What were her
movements and actions following this attack? And remember, Kelly Gaines
will likely be left if she lives with permanent brain damage.
(41:19):
We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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