November 14, 2025 • 46 mins
Anna Kepner, 18, starts her senior year at Temple Christian School, excited about her future.
Anna paints her parking spot to match her favorite movie,"Clueless," and is ecstatic to be back on the field, cheering for the Lions. She loves the water and is licensed to boat and scuba-certified. She also enjoys making TikTok videos with her friends and brother.
Anna plans on joining the military after high school and is already in talks with recruiters. In fact, she’s waiting on the results of her ASVAB testing to determine which jobs will suit her best.
Anna Kepner, a cheerleader, was found dead aboard the Carnival Horizon cruise ship during a recent western Caribbean voyage that ended in Miami on Saturday, November 8, 2025. The FBI is now investigating the death.
Carnival has stated it is fully cooperating with the investigation. The cause of death has not been released, and an autopsy is pending.
Anna Kepner's Celebration of Life will be held November 20.
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Spencer Aronfeld - Lawyer for Dulcie White, Trial Lawyer and Founder of Aronfeld Trial Lawyers, Author of Illustrated Children's book, "Sara Rose, Kid Lawyer;" Facebook: Aronfeld Law, Instagram: Aronfeld_Trial_Lawyers
- Dr. Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, and Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital
- Robert Crispin - Private Investigator at Crispin Special Investigations, Former Federal Task Force Officer for the United States Department of Justice, DEA and Miami Field Division, and Former Homicide and Crimes Against Children Investigator; Facebook: Crispin Special Investigations Inc.
- Joseph Scott Morgan - Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author of "Blood Beneath My Feet," and Host: "Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;" Instagram @JoScottForensic
- Susan Hendricks - Journalist, and Author of “Down the Hill: My Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi;" IG @susan_hendricks X @SusanHendicks
- Sydney Sumner - Investigative Reporter, 'Crime Stories'
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a gorgeous little teenage girl
cheerleader dead on a carnival cruise ship tonight, the FBI
joining the investigation. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
(00:21):
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Eighteen year old Anna Kapner, a brilliant straight A student
from Titusville, Florida, embarks on what is meant to be
a celebratory cruise, marking the end of her high school journey.
This trip is supposed to be a joyful escape. Unaware
of what is to come.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
This little girl was a high school cheerleading star, a
star in so many ways. She had all as she
was already set to go into the military, had already
spoken to recruiters, had her mind made up to serve
her country. Now she's dead on a cruise ship. You know,
maybe I'm the crazy on here. Straight out to Susan
(01:01):
Hendricks joining us. You know her well investigative journalist who
shot to fame on hl N and then her close
coverage of the Delphi double murder. She even wrote a
book in all her spare time, Down the Hill, My
Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi Susan Hendricks. This
little girl should be on her way to college or
into the military. How is it so many people keep
(01:25):
dropping dead on cruise ships. Look at her, She's a baby.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah she is.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And I was looking through her TikTok last night. I
have a daughter around the same age, and you see
just how young and full of life she was, with
the dances going on this cruise, with her grandmother loving
to do that. I even saw on her TikToker dancing
with her grandmother, full of life, her grandmother calling her
Anna Banana, so much ahead of her, And really what happened?
(01:55):
That's what we're trying to piece together.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Susan Hendricks. We have taken the twins on a lot
of cruises, okay, like four five Disney cruises. That's my comparison,
a Disney cruise where everything is in a controlled environment.
I guess you could. I wouldn't, but you could let
your children run wild. But I just don't understand how
(02:21):
a young teen girl ends up dead and we can't
even get the right time of death. Isn't it true,
Susan Hendrix, that at first we were all told this
little girl died eleven eight, But now we're learning they
even had the date wrong by twenty four hours. She
(02:43):
died eleven seven, around eleven seventeen A m. Isn't that true?
Speaker 5 (02:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:51):
And the cruise ship docked back when it was supposed
to on Saturday. So we're learning now you're right, eleven
seventeen on Friday. We're trying to piece together exactly what happened.
But it seemed like she loved cruises. She was excited
to go. They were looking forward to it. How did
she end up dead?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
What happened to her?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
It feels like everyone's tight lipt.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Well, i'll tell you the FBI on it. Now. That's
never a good thing when you have the FBI picking
through your trash and going over your movements. Joining me
there on the scene is private investigator Robert Crispin. He's
joining us at the Port of Miami, where so many
cruise ships depart, including this one. He is the owner
(03:35):
and founder of Crispin Special Investigations. But that's just part
of his story. He was with the former Federal Task
Force Officer US Department of Justice DEA in that jurisdiction,
Miami Field Division, former Homicide Crimes against Children, and he's
at Crispininvestigations dot Com. Crispin, this is right up your alley,
(03:57):
but I can't stress it enough. In a moment, I'm
going to go to our friend Joe Scott Morgan on this, Robert.
They can't I mean, did they know their tail from
a hole in the ground a cruise ship investigating a
potential homicide and they don't even get the time of
death even the day of death right. Do you know
(04:20):
how many witnesses are now lost forever because they didn't
get the TOD time of death down twenty four hours
plus Crispin, who was with her on eleven seven? We
don't know what was she doing, what did she eat,
what did she drink? Did she leave on a port adventure?
(04:40):
It's all gone, Crispin.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
Yeah, listen, this is why the FBI is involved.
Speaker 6 (04:48):
And when you get twelve nautical miles off the coast,
pretty much up the entire coast, it's international waterway. And
the problem is these types of cases, Nancy, an issue
for the FBI.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
Why Because the problem.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
With these cuse ships are the clime scenes that are
moving constantly. If you have evidence that was just rounded out,
it's in five thousand feet two that's the problem for the.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
FBI joining us an all star panel to make sense
of what we're learning tonight, Straight out to death Investigator,
professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University, the author of
Blood Beneath My Feet, and you can hear him now
on a hit podcast Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan
Joe Scott, thank you for being with us. It's a
death investigator's nightmare. It's a floating crime scene. How did
(05:39):
the little girl die? Who was with her? What time
did she die? Not just the cod cause of death,
the manner of death. And just like you heard Robert
Crispin say accurately, those guests, over five thousand of them
on this particular cruise ship have scattered to the four
(05:59):
core of the Earth. They weren't all even from the US.
Speaker 7 (06:04):
So what do you do first, Well, you tried to
get access to the area where she was actually living
in that cabin that I assumed that she was in
there with her grandmother. Bits of evidence that are contained
therein all the stuff that was in her baggage. But
here's one of the problems, Nancy. Once that stuff is
removed out of there, you lose all contexts for the
(06:26):
rest of the investigation. Here's another problem. We don't have
an established timeline you had mentioned earlier. Has she ingested anything?
What kind of meals did she take on board? Who
was she hanging out with on the ship? Was there
anybody that could have slipped her something at some point
in time? Did she have access to alcohol when she's
in international waters? So all of this works out to
(06:47):
be just an absolute nightmare scenario. The upside here, though,
I think, if there is any is that when they
put in, they put in to Miami, and Miami Dade
has one of the finest medical examiner offices in the country,
so they are going to be working this case from
a medical legal perspective, and we're talking about toxicology, and
(07:10):
we're also talking about a physical examination here because we
want to try to rule out, if we can, any
kind of trauma that might be there. That's one of
the reasons we're waiting. We don't have a cod yet,
but they're also waiting on talks, and therein might lie
the answers. J.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Scott, This is a morbid question, but it must be asked.
Where our dead bodies stored on a cruise ship? They
actually have a location for.
Speaker 7 (07:38):
Them, Yeah, they do. Having worked in New Orleans for
many years a major port, I work several cases coming
off of ships, everything from tankers to cruisers, you name it.
Even out on oil platforms. There are locations where bodies
can be stored. Sometimes they're referred to as a cool room.
(07:59):
Other times I've actually had remains that were placed into
a literal deep freeze. And so it's going to vary
from uh structure to structure or from platform to platform.
With a cruise ship, though, they have a dedicated area
most of the time, and that's a big that's a
big issue, Nancy, because in the medical legal world, we
(08:20):
want to try to put the body into stasis in
depth so that you're not going to have or you're
gonna you're not going to have any kind of degrading
of the remains because that's going to compromise evidence as well,
and how well was the body protected. You know, I
begin to think about elements like trace evidence. It drives
me nuts thinking about this because you're going to have
people that are unversed in this area. They're going to
(08:43):
be handling her remains and this is your primary bit
of evidence here I'm not being disrespectful to the dead,
but you know and I know that that's the issue here.
You have to protect this body at all costs because
they're in lie all of the answers.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Just got Morgan joining us death investigator with literally thousands
of death investigations under his belt. Scott, you just said
the condition of the body. Let's just think for a moment.
You know how small the cabins are on these cruise ships.
Think of her. She's basically in a tin can in
a closed room in the Caribbean hot as h E
(09:24):
double l. You know the implications that has for eight
dead human body. You lose evidence with every minute that
ticks by.
Speaker 7 (09:36):
Yes, you do. And that's one of the major problems,
particularly when you begin to think about her tissues. And
just let me kind of lay this out. This is
they're going to be three the body in total is
going to be examined. Her body will, but there are
three major areas you're looking at anatomically here with a
person this age that suddenly passes away, the heart, the lungs,
(09:58):
and the brain, and so you want to be able
to preserve those so that you're not going to have
any decomposition or degradation of the body to the point
where it's going to compromise any kind of evidence that
you can recover that rest therein. That's why it's so
important to be able to keep this her remains so
that they are as intact as you possibly can until
(10:20):
Theme in Miami can retrieve the remains and examine them
as they should be examined.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Joining us now, Spencer Aarenfeld. He is the lawyer for
the family of Dulcy White, another woman that dies at sea.
He is known as the cruise ship lawyer, and for
a reason, he takes on these seemingly impossible cases and
(10:46):
actually wins them, not on behalf of the cruise ship,
on behalf of the families. Spencer, I wouldn't trust a
cruise ship investigator as far as I could throw them.
Not that they're evil people, I mean, for Pete's sake,
they don't even have the right day of death, much
less time of death. We had to get a medical
(11:07):
examiner in the States to give me a time of death.
I mean, really, if they can't even do that, did
you hear Joe Scott Morgan, he's the professor of forensics,
describing what all has been lost because if they're ineptness Nancy.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
The security officers on cruise ships are really nothing more
than glorified mall cops. Most of them have little to
no training in law enforcement, in forensics and investigation. This
is one of the primary problems that people have on
cruise ships is they expect that they're actually being guarded
by a police level security force. These are men and
(11:49):
women primarily from the Philippines, from Indonesia, who could have
been a bartender, could have been a dishwasher, but they
got a job on the security.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Stop.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Please stop. Okay, my ears are bleeding. You've made my
ears bleed. Did you say the cruise ship investigators were
a bartender back on the island and now they're the
investigator on the cruise ship.
Speaker 8 (12:16):
The entire training they've had in being a security guard
is generally the training that the cruise line gives them.
They're recruited in these countries and they apply for different
positions and that they get a job in security, then
the cruise line trains them themselves. They usually have no
military part.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
You're killing me. You just gagged me. Wait a minute,
Wait a minute, I just opened a whole can of worms.
Right there, you're hearing Spencer Aaronfeld talking the cruise ship
lawyer Joe Scott. Do you know how hard I had
to train to go on crime scenes as a district
attorney and assistant district attorney. How hard did you have
(12:57):
to train to be a death investigator? And now I
got a bouncer from some bar from the Caribbean, and
that's the cruise ship security. That's the investigator.
Speaker 7 (13:12):
Yeah, and here's another piece. If you like that one,
let me give you this one as well. We work
in a world now in forensic science where we're talking
about molecular evidence. Now, so to my colleague's earlier point,
where there's no manner of death ruled at this point
in time. If we're talking about a homicide here, we
(13:32):
start to get off in areas like DNA. We treat
scenes many times now, Nancy, those of us that are professionals,
as if we're going into surgery. You know, you see
us in the taiex suits with the hoods on and
the gloves and the booties and the mask and all that. Well,
there's a reason we do that. It's because the evidence
many times is very very fragile, and when you don't
(13:52):
when you don't have specific evidence at a scene that's
going to point o something, just like Comer, just like Coburg.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
No eyewitnesses, no confession, nothing, no fingerprints, no footprints, no nothing.
And if it had not been for molecular forensic evidence,
a quadruple homicide would have gone unsolved. There was no motive,
There was no connection that we knew of between Coburger
and his four victims. The state was just hanging in
(14:22):
the wind. We were gone until people like you came
in with molecular evidence. Think about it, The evidence was
found on the snap of the hilt of a knife
and got him dead in the water because of molecular evidence.
There is no way that investigators on this cruise ship
(14:44):
got molecular evidence.
Speaker 7 (14:47):
No. I just hope that they didn't compromise those things
that are there. Sometimes it's better just to keep your
hands off. But we know that that didn't happen because
in fact, they have to take care of the body.
That goes back to what you said earlier about play
the body in a location that is at minimum cool,
hopefully colder more like what we have actually in the morgue,
(15:08):
because at that point time we can cease or slow
down the process of decomposition. And also it secures the body.
How do I know where her remains were on that ship?
That other people didn't have access to her body? You know,
you go to the m's office and look, you're going
to have to pass through several layers or or gates
of security in order to get access to a body.
(15:29):
You're talking about a rolling city here with five thousand occupants,
just like our colleague said earlier, that are in the wind.
They're gone. Now, Nancy, how are you going to track
them down?
Speaker 5 (15:39):
You know?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
May to Spencer Erinfield the cruise ship lawyer, Spencer, let
me tell a story about what happened to us on
a Disney cruise through no fault of Disney. So you know,
they have like a tween hangout. I believe it's called
the Edge, which is edgy, where like if you're eleven
ten to say fourteen, you can go there and pretend
(16:01):
you're eighteen, right, and you play games. Believe me, I
stoop the whole thing out. They play games, they watch
Disney movies of course, and they have like kool aid
and pretzels, and there is a guard at the door.
The only entry exit. I checked the whole thing out.
So we went on another Disney cruise and John Lucy
(16:23):
wanted to come back from the edge and come to
the room. So I was already in my pajamas, shorts
and a T shirt and went to edge to go
get her. I bring her back with strict instructions to
John David, do not leave until I get back. He's like, sure.
I go back forty five minutes later, get Lucy all set.
(16:47):
He's not there. He was with a little friend from
our hometown and they left together. He thought it would
be okay, because I always say travel in a group.
I was running in my pajama up and down the
hallways of the Disney Cruise line, trying to find John David,
because you know how fast somebody could have dragged him
(17:07):
into one of their rooms, molested him and killed him,
just like that, out of all those thousands of rooms.
I went berserk. Now, granted, that was all on John David,
not on Disney. In fact, we went on another Disney
cruise after that that following summer, where I would not
(17:27):
I had a handcuffed to me. He could not leave
Lucy here, John David here, no matter where they went.
I was there, Spencer. This is so wrong, and people
wonder why I'm so angry and upset. This is I'm
not mad at the investigator who doesn't know what he,
she or doing. I'm mad because this is the only
thing left that we can do for this little girl.
(17:50):
This is it is to solve her case. Spencer.
Speaker 8 (17:55):
Well, probably Nancy, and I agree with you. The most
important evidence for me would be the surveillance video. These
cruise lines are wired like casinos from Boust, with high
definitions CCTV covering all the common areas, covering the elevators,
covering the dining rooms, the pool, the night bull. And
(18:18):
my question is where's the CCTV. In my experience, and
I've sued Carnival thousands of times, they will either not
have all the CCTV or failed to preserve it, which
is why I think the FBI boarding the ship the
minute it got to Fort Miami was essential for the
(18:39):
preservation of the CCTV. They're going to get it off
the ship and the FBI will take possession of it
before Carnival destroys it, loses it takes over it. I
think the cameras are going to tell a lot of the.
Speaker 9 (18:52):
Story of what happened to her senior year at Temple Christians,
and it paints her parking spot to match your favorite
movie Clueless and is ecstatic be back on the field
cheering for the Lions. Licensed to boat Ann scoobas she
enjoys making tiktoks with her friends and brother. Anna plans
on joining the military. In fact, she's waiting on the
results of her ASVAB testing to determine which jobs will
(19:13):
suit her best.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Anna's grandparents gift her a spring cruise as an eighteenth
birthday gift. Anna enjoys the experience so much she books
a six day trip with stops in Oto Rios, Jamaica,
the Grand Caymans, and Cosimo, Mexico. Anna Kefner is known
for her infectious spirit and love for people, with dreams
of serving her community through military service. That's why what
happens on her trip devastates all.
Speaker 7 (19:36):
And know her.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
How long had this little girl been dead in her
room if that's where she was actually found.
Speaker 10 (19:45):
Lindsay Allison, a passenger staying just down the hall from
Anna's room, remembers crew responding to a medical call around
eleven am Friday morning.
Speaker 8 (19:54):
Security never left. They guarded the room very well.
Speaker 10 (19:56):
Though she doesn't know what happened, Alison can imagine the
terror that ensues when your vacation turns into a floating prison.
Speaker 8 (20:03):
You're out in the middle of the ocean.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
You can't go anywhere, you can't get on land, you
can't sleep.
Speaker 10 (20:08):
Early Saturday, the last day of the Horizon's voyage, a
passenger is found dead. The cruise ship returns to port,
asking passengers to disembark quickly. The FBI now investigating the death.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
From our friends at Fox thirteenth Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,
Another debacle at sea, a case that may never be solved.
Now of this little cheerleader eerily reminiscent of the so
(20:43):
called Missing Groom, Captain Michael.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
May I give your attention please, every person may have
gone overboard last night.
Speaker 10 (20:53):
George Smith and his bride spend the night gambling with
friends they met on the Royal Caribbeans Brilliance of the Seas.
When the ship's casino closes, the group heads to the club,
but Jennifer leaves after a drunken argument with George. By
the time the club closes at three point thirty, the
young men have to carry George back to his room.
At four, around four thirty, neighbors here a sickening thud,
(21:15):
which investigators believe was George's body slamming against a lifeboat
canopy before falling into the ocean below.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that my
son was murdered on that cruise ship.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
There's so much evidence, it's overwhelming.
Speaker 8 (21:33):
It's just been a complete and awful nightmare for my family.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
That last bit from our friends at forty eight hours,
I personally investigated the George Smith missing groom case. Just
Gott Morgan, you also have studied the case. I spoke
with his mother, his sister at length, went through all
of the evidence. There is no way did you know
they tried to climb he fell over the rail when
(22:00):
the friends' friends that he just met in the bar
that night and they were all drinking absinthe, which you
know I believe it's outlawed, and certain jurisdictions so powerful.
They left him in his room and the rail to
George Smith's balcony was chest high and there were several
rails so nobody could just fall over the side. He
(22:25):
was thrown overboard and the evidence is overwhelming that he
was murdered. I agree with his mother that you just
heard speaking. But it's never been solved because everyone scattered.
As I said, to the four corners of the earth.
Speaker 7 (22:40):
Yeah, you took a look just at that image of
the blood deposition alone. You know, how has that explained?
And again, this is another great example of how can
the scene be processed or secured? Because I'm not thinking
I misspoke when I said processed. I would not expect
security on one of the ships to process a scene.
But they even understand basic scene security, how you lock
(23:04):
down an area once you get there, and you understand
the value and how delicate this evidence is, you know,
to get back to port in order to allow those
that are professionals to work the scene, to interpret the scene.
So now you've got a fantastical story about this, this
fellow going over this rail that's chest high. These rails
(23:26):
are designed this way for a reason. It would take
him being propelled in order to get over the side.
And so that's that's one of these things. It's a
fantastic example of what a potential train wreck these deaths
are at sea, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
And of course there had been arguments the night before
he had a huge argument with his fiance. Well, they
had just gotten married, this is their honeymoon. She Jennifer,
I could recall her name, was spotted on cam like
sitting in a hallway completely drunk, just you know, had
been totally overserved. Long story short. I don't think she
(24:05):
had anything to do with his death, but I believe
he was murdered potentially by people he was with at
the bar that night. And when I say, by the way,
Joe Scott, that the real was chest high, that's chest
high on me, not on you. Okay, I'm five to
one and a half. You're like, what six two or
six three, so it would be different. But still it
(24:26):
was to a height. He didn't just fall over. He
had to be, as you said, propelled. And part of
the problem Doctor Angela Arnold with us psychiatrist. You can
find her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Doctor Angie
is the family never will know what happened. And here
with this little cheerleader, we see the same thing all
(24:50):
over again with Anna terrific Nancy.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
It's a form of trauma that this family will never
be able to get over. That's why, you know, that's
why we have funerals and things like this. It's for
people to process the death of someone. But if you
never ever know what actually happened to that person, you
can never fully process their death, and so they will
all be traumatized by those in ways that we don't
(25:18):
even realize for the rest of their lives. It's true,
it's very sad.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Anna is mourned by classmates and teachers at Temple Christian.
Mister Bruner writes a heartfelt note. Your curiosity, your gentle spirit,
and the way you cared for those around you made
a lasting impression on me and on everyone who knew you.
Anna's family parks her car in the parking spot for
the last time. The white key is stacked high with
bouquets of Anna's favorite flowers.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Susan Hendrick is joining US investigative journalists and author. Susan,
there's something that's so poignant about that photo of her
car in her little parking spot. Seniors get their own spot,
and she painted hers after her favorite movie Clueless. Her
car was still part there and then everyone began putting
(26:03):
flowers on it, and it reminds me, Susan, you and
I have both lived in the South. How it's very typical.
You'll be driving along the interstate and you'll see a
cross covered in flowers. It's all that's left. The family
is so bereft. All they can do is go put
flowers on her car. It's just it's heartbreaking to me.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Yeah, when I see that car, I think of a
teenager with their whole lives ahead of them, and the
school decided, hey, we're going to keep that car there.
It's staying put for now. And you see all the
memorials that young girl's best friends thinking she was just
here what happened? And as doctor Arnold was talking and
Joe Scott, I'm thinking, is that the place to commit
(26:49):
the perfect crime? That floating vessel. I mean, it's blocked off,
it's already back out at sea. Passengers are shuffled off
and there's no answers.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Okay, Robert Crisp and is joining us at the Port
of Miami, the departure spot for all of these cruises
we're talking about. Okay, Robert Crispin, get ready, it's not
just Anna that dies at sea. Now we've got Dulcy White,
a loving wife and mom who apparently is overserved, falls
(27:21):
over the edge and the boat doesn't even go back
to look for her.
Speaker 10 (27:26):
Dulcy White, a loving wife to Terry, a mom of
three nursing patients in West Berlin, New York. When Dulcy's
daughter Meghan suggests they take a girl's trip, Dulcy immediately
suggests a cruise.
Speaker 9 (27:38):
Dulci a Meghan decide on a four day Taylor Swift
themed cruise to Nasau and Royal Caribbean's Cocoa Key. The
cruise promises themed efense, friendship bracelet exchanges and a clever
T shirt in my cruise era for fifteen hundred per person.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I mean to you, Robert Crispin, what could be more
fun than that? A Taylor Swift theme cruise without all
all the girls, the young teen girls running around exchanging
those friendship bracelets, and some grown man I've seen wearing
the tailor's with her whatever. So much fun, so innocent.
But the allegation tonight is she was horribly overserved and
(28:17):
fell overboard and the ship didn't even turn around to
go find her nothing. They just let her drown. What's
the likelihood we'll ever gonna find her body?
Speaker 5 (28:29):
That's never gonna happen In an open sea in the
middle of nowhere. You know, Nancy.
Speaker 6 (28:34):
Everything starts off so exciting and everyone's happy when I
get on this cruise ship. But the problem is when
somebody falls off and the cruise ship pilot does not
turn the vessel around, and Williamson turn and Anderson turn,
that didn't happen. That allegation alone is sickening and it
makes people not want to get out a cruise ship.
(28:55):
God forbid something happens.
Speaker 10 (28:57):
Dulcie and Meghan depart Miami on board the Allure of
the Seas. Dulcy decides to sclurge on a drink package
as well, opting for Royal Caribbeans Deluxe Beverage Package so
she doesn't need to pay for individual drinks.
Speaker 9 (29:10):
Royal Caribbeans Deluxe Beverage Package can cost more than one
hundred dollars per day, not including an eighteen percent gratuity
charged at the end of the cruise.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Dulcy White eagerly boards the All in On Taylor Swift
Cruise with her family, expecting to have a wonderful weekend
filled with all her favorite songs. Little does she know
this trip will soon turn into a tragedy.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
That's right, it's not just that gorgeous teen girl cheerleader
Anna Kepner that dies at sea. Now a mom of
three dead and the boat didn't even turn around to
try and look for her body. Why joining us an
all star panel, you know, I just want to be
clear about something to Robert Crispin, former DEEA former vice.
(29:57):
That's where this comes in. Ford j who's joining us
there at the Port of Miami and the States. It's
against the law to overserve someone who is obviously inebriated.
What those rules don't apply on a cruise ship, you.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
Know, Nancy, You would think it does, but it doesn't.
Speaker 6 (30:14):
And sadly enough, even though they're inebriated, they're staggering, their
slurge speech, their bloodshot, watery eyes, they're still getting alcohol served.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
Why because they got the wristband on. It's the deluxe
all you can drink. What happens they get them back
to their room.
Speaker 11 (30:30):
They end up dying or something bad, really bad happens
to these people, and there's no accountability, you.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Know, part of it though, Doctor Angie Arnold joining us,
renowned psychiatrist. I think when you get on a cruise ship,
I kind of did it with the twins. Of course,
we're all teetotalers. Sadly we're not in the party. But
you think you're safe. You're surrounded by children, adults don't
get to come like just on their own pervs wandering around,
(30:58):
I don't think anyway, and you just feel totally insulated,
especially on a Disney cruise. And I'm wondering if that
has anything to do with the attitude on cruise ships.
You think, oh, I can drink as much as I want.
All have to do is walk to my room.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Well, Nancy, what I was thinking about was this, once
a person has had a certain amount to drink, they're
really not in control of their cognition at some point,
so they're being overserved. And they really don't realize that
they're being overserved because the alcohol is affecting their brain
(31:35):
so they're no longer capable of making good choices. That's
why in the United States it's illegal to overserve people.
So it's really quite a shame because they can ask
and ask for more, but Nancy, they're not aware of
what they're doing.
Speaker 8 (31:51):
And then something tragic.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Like this happens Tuesday night. Do we'll see and Meghan
grabbing drinks along with pizza. Meghan is socializing with other fans,
doesn't notice her inebriated after ordering drinks back to back.
By seven point thirty, another passenger has taken note of
Doolsey's glassy eyed slurring and struggling to maintain balance. The
concerned passenger escorts Doolsey back to the room.
Speaker 10 (32:12):
Megan returns shortly after and is shocked by how intoxicated
her mother is. She's never seen her mother in this
kind of state. The mom and daughter start getting ready
for bed. To save space, the pair leave their suitcases
out on the balcony, so they have to venture out
to grab fresh clothes.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Nine p forty, Meghan notices Duolsey out on the balcony
and assumes her mom is grabbing pajamas. When she next looks,
she sees Doolsey sitting on the railing of the balcony,
her feet dangling over the edge. Before Meghan can get
to her, Doolsey slips off the balcony and Megan can't
catch her as she falls into the water below.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Oh my stars, straight out to the cruise ship. Lawyer,
Spencer Erenfeld, you're the lawyer for Doulcy White's family. I'm stunned.
She was served so much she could barely walk. Everybody
let it happen. Then she falls over board. Her daughter
(33:08):
races to catch her and couldn't make it. Is it
true the ship didn't even turn around after the daughter
raised the alarm.
Speaker 8 (33:16):
Well, the case has just been filed, Nancy. We don't
have all of the ship position logs. We don't have
the captain's logs. So I have what the family has
told me, which there was a delay in initiating the
man overboard protocol. But once we start taking depositions and
getting all of the data from the ship, I could
(33:37):
answer that question specifically. But the allegation from the daughter
who watched her mother fall to her death is that
the ship did not stop, did not contact the US
Coast Guard or Bahamian Coast Guard immediately, and did not
initiate rescue efforts timely. But I also wanted to say this, Nancy,
(33:58):
and I've investigated one hundred of man overboard cases. The
common denominator is always alcohol, and in most cases, the
over service of alcohol and cruise line do have a
legal responsibility under federal maritime law to not overserve visibly
(34:19):
intoxicated passengers. The problem is this perfect storm of the
all you can drink drink package encourages people to want
to get their money's worth because they've already prepaid it.
And the crew members are incentivized to serve and keep
serving because that's how they get tips. So the cruise
(34:42):
lines pay these folks below a minimum wage. They're not
subject the federal minimal minimum wage laws, so they're paying
these guys pennies on the pennies per hour. And if
they can get a dollar two dollars five dollars tips
per passenger fifteen times an hour, they're gonna keep serving
(35:02):
and scarming and sport. And it's really a recipe for disaster.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Crime stories.
Speaker 12 (35:13):
With Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
To Sidney Summer joining US Crime Stories, investigative reporter, what
about Williamson and Anderson? Those are two distinct maritime maneuvers
that are to be employed when someone is a quote
man overboard. Right.
Speaker 12 (35:34):
That obviously did not happen in this case. It feels
like Royal Caribbean did nothing to try and save Doolcy.
Despite Meghan's quick report of what happened to her mom.
Meghan says she felt hopeless and that no one did
anything in any timely manner. After she reported her mom
fell overboard.
Speaker 10 (35:54):
Megan immediately reports her mother's fall overboard to crew members,
but the ship does not perform a Williamson or Anderson
turn to return to the man overboard location, and no
rescue boats are launched. The crew doesn't even immediately report
Dulcie missing, though her fall was caught on the ship's cameras. Eventually,
cruise from the Royal Bahamas Defense Force and the US
(36:15):
Coast Guard search for dulci employing helicopters, but Dulcie's body
is not recovered.
Speaker 13 (36:22):
She did overdo it, just trying to maybe get her
money is worth. I don't know. It saddens me that
that is my last memory of her.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
From CBS, Dulce White falls from the balcony after allegedly
being served one too many drinks. Her body is never recovered,
leaving her family and friends in shock and mourning.
Speaker 10 (36:44):
Dulce White's family files a lawsuit, claiming the cruise line
overserved her alcohol and delayed an emergency response. The filing
alleges Dulcy was served seven drinks in six hours and
eight minutes despite obvious signs of intoxication. The cruise line
is accused of failing to comply with statutes enumerated in
US maritime law when they failed to launch an adequate
(37:06):
search for Julcy.
Speaker 13 (37:08):
It will haunt us for the rest of our lives.
I feel that the over consumption of alcohol and the
over service of alcohol was the cause of this.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Now, for my friends at CBS, the daughter literally haunted
the rest of her life because she didn't catch her
mom before she fell overboard. Was it her fault? No,
but I'm sure she has survivor guilt. And these two
that we've highlighted tonight, Dulce and Anna, they aren't the
only ones. Does the name Amy Bradley ring a bell?
Because I will never forget it.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Amy Bradley was twenty three and she was on her
family vacation.
Speaker 9 (37:47):
The water was crystal clear. Her life is good, everything
is great.
Speaker 8 (37:51):
Taught us here tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
They went to bed.
Speaker 8 (37:55):
Around five thirty in the morning.
Speaker 9 (37:56):
I saw Amy on the balcony six o'clock again, she
wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
He said, I've been looking for Amy and I can't
find her.
Speaker 8 (38:05):
And we check every inch of the ship.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
The captain came in. He says the FBN, they've search Gord,
daughter's not on this bank.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Now years have passed and we've had so many sightings.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I saw her that from our friends at Netflix. Amy
Bradley is missing. To be told by the captain, your
daughter's not on this boat. How do you know that?
How do you know she's not on the boat. I mean,
Robert Crispin, you're joining us from port of Miami. How
big are these behaymoths?
Speaker 11 (38:39):
They're massive, They're massive, and Nancy, if they told him that,
then they knew something. They looked at the cameras, they
saw a fall, they knew something.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
But how can you tell someone.
Speaker 6 (38:51):
That when you haven't even done an investigation, if you
don't see your falling off the boat on a cruise ship.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
You know, the ship from which Anna Kevin went missing
was monstrous huge. There were thousands and thousands of not
only cruise ship passengers. I tried to add it up.
Let's say the fourteen deck Carnival Horizon sales the carib
(39:19):
Caribbean four thousand passengers and fifteen hundred person crew. That's
at least fifty five hundred people. And they come in
and tell the dad yet she's not on the ship. Okay,
and there's more.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Now years have passed and we've had so many sightings.
Speaker 12 (39:42):
I saw her.
Speaker 11 (39:43):
That's where I was standing.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Amy's life.
Speaker 9 (39:46):
Your taxi driver said, your daughter, he's on this owl
and she could have been lured on the ship.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I saw in the rest of Bob Barbadis. I said,
what's your name? Amy?
Speaker 7 (39:55):
I was in toros onand girl said, my name is
Amy Bradley.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I need of I thought that could be Amy from
our friends at Netflix. Amy Bradley missing and it's still unsaw,
which goes back to Joe Scott Morgan's insistence that you
have to solve the case before everyone departs from the ship.
Joe Scott, I'm not sure you're familiar with Jackie Castanellis.
(40:22):
Another similar cruise chip misshap Well.
Speaker 14 (40:25):
She was in New York City, waitteressing on her way
to becoming a star. She went to some open call
auditions and this was one of them for this high
end cruise line and Alon Behold. They called her back.
Speaker 15 (40:38):
They liked what they saw on her and booked her
onto the first of what turned out to be three
cruises over the course of the next year and a half.
That was her really her first big break doing what
she loved doing, which was singing and performing.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Robert Crispin joining us there at the Port of Miami. Robert,
if they can't keep up with the safekeeping of their
own employees. She was a performer, right, She was there
as part of the performances that the ship puts on to,
you know, entertain the passengers. They can't keep up with
a star performer. She ends up dead in her room
(41:16):
and nobody knows what happened, much less the passengers.
Speaker 11 (41:22):
Let me tell you some if you've ever been on
one of these, they're floating cities.
Speaker 5 (41:25):
They can't keep track of everybody. They just can't. It's impossible.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
To you, Joe Scott Morgan, exactly why you were insisting
that the case be investigated while everyone is still on
the cruise ship, before witnesses can leave like they did
in the George Smith case and evidence lost. I mean,
they're never going to find Dulcie's body ever.
Speaker 7 (41:49):
No, no, they will not gone forever and ever. Amen,
you know we're covering a similar case as well, not
similar in that sense in the sense of the crew lines,
but you know, we had the burning man homicide from
a couple of months ago and Nancy, there were seventy
thousand people at that event. There's a high probability that
that will never be solved. Do you know why? That
(42:10):
was a non permanent location where people just went into
the wind from all over the world. It's identical to
the cruise lines as well. You have these people that
go down there for fun. They relaxed they should be.
You've earned it, you pay for it. You go down there,
you want a taste of the good life, and then
you begin to indulge in alcohol. You meet strangers. Some
(42:31):
of them you don't know who they are, where they're from,
You don't know what their intentions are relative to you.
And so it's not like working in Atlanta or New
Orleans or New York or wherever where you have a
static location where you can go out and process a scene.
You can go out and canvas and interview people and
all these sorts of things. This is an absolute nightmare
(42:52):
scenario for everyone involved.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Spencer Aaronfield, cruise ship lawyer Dulcy is your what are
you going to do? Man?
Speaker 8 (43:04):
So the first thing we're going to find is the
surveillance video. We're going to interview the servers. We're going
to find out what they saw, what they knew, what
they observed. We're going to get the ship's position log
and find out from the moment that the daughter called
the bridge and informed them that her mom had gone
(43:25):
off the side of the ship, how long did it
take the ship to notify the Coastguard, notify the Bahamian authorities,
and to initiate any type of man overboard protocols. There's
technology available right now that alerts the bridge without having
(43:45):
to have a call. It's actually mandated by funeral law.
But most cruise lines are not following this and they
do not have installed man overboard technology. To my knowledge,
the only cruise line that is really fully compliant with
that is Disney. But all these new mega cruise ships
are coming out that are floating cities. They are doing
(44:07):
it in contradiction to US federal maritime law and they
do not have man overboard technology. There are so many
ways now that passengers who go overboard can be found.
A simple air tag can be included on their lanyard
so that when they go overboard, they can find them
(44:27):
with GPS within seconds. But the cruise lines choose to
put their profits ahead of passenger safety, and they don't
invest in the technology that they're required to have, and
they can easily have to rescue people that go off
the side of ships.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Two more unsolved cruise ship fatalities. If you know or
think you know anything about these cases, please contact Miami
F ANDBI seven five four seven zero three two thousand,
repeat seven five four seven zero three two thousand. Your
(45:05):
tip may make the difference in solving these cases. We
remember American hero Deputy Sheriff Lawrence Canfield, Sacramento County Sheriffs, California,
killed in the line of duty after thirteen years serving
and protecting, leaving behind his grieving wife and two children
without a dad. American hero Deputy Sheriff Lawrence Canfield. Nancy
(45:31):
Gray signing off goodbye Frien
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a gorgeous little teenage girl
cheerleader dead on a carnival cruise ship tonight, the FBI
joining the investigation. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
(00:21):
I want to thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Eighteen year old Anna Kapner, a brilliant straight A student
from Titusville, Florida, embarks on what is meant to be
a celebratory cruise, marking the end of her high school journey.
This trip is supposed to be a joyful escape. Unaware
of what is to come.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
This little girl was a high school cheerleading star, a
star in so many ways. She had all as she
was already set to go into the military, had already
spoken to recruiters, had her mind made up to serve
her country. Now she's dead on a cruise ship. You know,
maybe I'm the crazy on here. Straight out to Susan
(01:01):
Hendricks joining us. You know her well investigative journalist who
shot to fame on hl N and then her close
coverage of the Delphi double murder. She even wrote a
book in all her spare time, Down the Hill, My
Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi Susan Hendricks. This
little girl should be on her way to college or
into the military. How is it so many people keep
(01:25):
dropping dead on cruise ships. Look at her, She's a baby.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Yeah she is.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
And I was looking through her TikTok last night. I
have a daughter around the same age, and you see
just how young and full of life she was, with
the dances going on this cruise, with her grandmother loving
to do that. I even saw on her TikToker dancing
with her grandmother, full of life, her grandmother calling her
Anna Banana, so much ahead of her, And really what happened?
(01:55):
That's what we're trying to piece together.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Susan Hendricks. We have taken the twins on a lot
of cruises, okay, like four five Disney cruises. That's my comparison,
a Disney cruise where everything is in a controlled environment.
I guess you could. I wouldn't, but you could let
your children run wild. But I just don't understand how
(02:21):
a young teen girl ends up dead and we can't
even get the right time of death. Isn't it true,
Susan Hendrix, that at first we were all told this
little girl died eleven eight, But now we're learning they
even had the date wrong by twenty four hours. She
(02:43):
died eleven seven, around eleven seventeen A m. Isn't that true?
Speaker 5 (02:51):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (02:51):
And the cruise ship docked back when it was supposed
to on Saturday. So we're learning now you're right, eleven
seventeen on Friday. We're trying to piece together exactly what happened.
But it seemed like she loved cruises. She was excited
to go. They were looking forward to it. How did
she end up dead?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
What happened to her?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
It feels like everyone's tight lipt.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Well, i'll tell you the FBI on it. Now. That's
never a good thing when you have the FBI picking
through your trash and going over your movements. Joining me
there on the scene is private investigator Robert Crispin. He's
joining us at the Port of Miami, where so many
cruise ships depart, including this one. He is the owner
(03:35):
and founder of Crispin Special Investigations. But that's just part
of his story. He was with the former Federal Task
Force Officer US Department of Justice DEA in that jurisdiction,
Miami Field Division, former Homicide Crimes against Children, and he's
at Crispininvestigations dot Com. Crispin, this is right up your alley,
(03:57):
but I can't stress it enough. In a moment, I'm
going to go to our friend Joe Scott Morgan on this, Robert.
They can't I mean, did they know their tail from
a hole in the ground a cruise ship investigating a
potential homicide and they don't even get the time of
death even the day of death right. Do you know
(04:20):
how many witnesses are now lost forever because they didn't
get the TOD time of death down twenty four hours
plus Crispin, who was with her on eleven seven? We
don't know what was she doing, what did she eat,
what did she drink? Did she leave on a port adventure?
(04:40):
It's all gone, Crispin.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
Yeah, listen, this is why the FBI is involved.
Speaker 6 (04:48):
And when you get twelve nautical miles off the coast,
pretty much up the entire coast, it's international waterway. And
the problem is these types of cases, Nancy, an issue
for the FBI.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
Why Because the problem.
Speaker 6 (05:04):
With these cuse ships are the clime scenes that are
moving constantly. If you have evidence that was just rounded out,
it's in five thousand feet two that's the problem for the.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
FBI joining us an all star panel to make sense
of what we're learning tonight, Straight out to death Investigator,
professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University, the author of
Blood Beneath My Feet, and you can hear him now
on a hit podcast Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan
Joe Scott, thank you for being with us. It's a
death investigator's nightmare. It's a floating crime scene. How did
(05:39):
the little girl die? Who was with her? What time
did she die? Not just the cod cause of death,
the manner of death. And just like you heard Robert
Crispin say accurately, those guests, over five thousand of them
on this particular cruise ship have scattered to the four
(05:59):
core of the Earth. They weren't all even from the US.
Speaker 7 (06:04):
So what do you do first, Well, you tried to
get access to the area where she was actually living
in that cabin that I assumed that she was in
there with her grandmother. Bits of evidence that are contained
therein all the stuff that was in her baggage. But
here's one of the problems, Nancy. Once that stuff is
removed out of there, you lose all contexts for the
(06:26):
rest of the investigation. Here's another problem. We don't have
an established timeline you had mentioned earlier. Has she ingested anything?
What kind of meals did she take on board? Who
was she hanging out with on the ship? Was there
anybody that could have slipped her something at some point
in time? Did she have access to alcohol when she's
in international waters? So all of this works out to
(06:47):
be just an absolute nightmare scenario. The upside here, though,
I think, if there is any is that when they
put in, they put in to Miami, and Miami Dade
has one of the finest medical examiner offices in the country,
so they are going to be working this case from
a medical legal perspective, and we're talking about toxicology, and
(07:10):
we're also talking about a physical examination here because we
want to try to rule out, if we can, any
kind of trauma that might be there. That's one of
the reasons we're waiting. We don't have a cod yet,
but they're also waiting on talks, and therein might lie
the answers. J.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Scott, This is a morbid question, but it must be asked.
Where our dead bodies stored on a cruise ship? They
actually have a location for.
Speaker 7 (07:38):
Them, Yeah, they do. Having worked in New Orleans for
many years a major port, I work several cases coming
off of ships, everything from tankers to cruisers, you name it.
Even out on oil platforms. There are locations where bodies
can be stored. Sometimes they're referred to as a cool room.
(07:59):
Other times I've actually had remains that were placed into
a literal deep freeze. And so it's going to vary
from uh structure to structure or from platform to platform.
With a cruise ship, though, they have a dedicated area
most of the time, and that's a big that's a
big issue, Nancy, because in the medical legal world, we
(08:20):
want to try to put the body into stasis in
depth so that you're not going to have or you're
gonna you're not going to have any kind of degrading
of the remains because that's going to compromise evidence as well,
and how well was the body protected. You know, I
begin to think about elements like trace evidence. It drives
me nuts thinking about this because you're going to have
people that are unversed in this area. They're going to
(08:43):
be handling her remains and this is your primary bit
of evidence here I'm not being disrespectful to the dead,
but you know and I know that that's the issue here.
You have to protect this body at all costs because
they're in lie all of the answers.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Just got Morgan joining us death investigator with literally thousands
of death investigations under his belt. Scott, you just said
the condition of the body. Let's just think for a moment.
You know how small the cabins are on these cruise ships.
Think of her. She's basically in a tin can in
a closed room in the Caribbean hot as h E
(09:24):
double l. You know the implications that has for eight
dead human body. You lose evidence with every minute that
ticks by.
Speaker 7 (09:36):
Yes, you do. And that's one of the major problems,
particularly when you begin to think about her tissues. And
just let me kind of lay this out. This is
they're going to be three the body in total is
going to be examined. Her body will, but there are
three major areas you're looking at anatomically here with a
person this age that suddenly passes away, the heart, the lungs,
(09:58):
and the brain, and so you want to be able
to preserve those so that you're not going to have
any decomposition or degradation of the body to the point
where it's going to compromise any kind of evidence that
you can recover that rest therein. That's why it's so
important to be able to keep this her remains so
that they are as intact as you possibly can until
(10:20):
Theme in Miami can retrieve the remains and examine them
as they should be examined.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Joining us now, Spencer Aarenfeld. He is the lawyer for
the family of Dulcy White, another woman that dies at sea.
He is known as the cruise ship lawyer, and for
a reason, he takes on these seemingly impossible cases and
(10:46):
actually wins them, not on behalf of the cruise ship,
on behalf of the families. Spencer, I wouldn't trust a
cruise ship investigator as far as I could throw them.
Not that they're evil people, I mean, for Pete's sake,
they don't even have the right day of death, much
less time of death. We had to get a medical
(11:07):
examiner in the States to give me a time of death.
I mean, really, if they can't even do that, did
you hear Joe Scott Morgan, he's the professor of forensics,
describing what all has been lost because if they're ineptness Nancy.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
The security officers on cruise ships are really nothing more
than glorified mall cops. Most of them have little to
no training in law enforcement, in forensics and investigation. This
is one of the primary problems that people have on
cruise ships is they expect that they're actually being guarded
by a police level security force. These are men and
(11:49):
women primarily from the Philippines, from Indonesia, who could have
been a bartender, could have been a dishwasher, but they
got a job on the security.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Stop.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Please stop. Okay, my ears are bleeding. You've made my
ears bleed. Did you say the cruise ship investigators were
a bartender back on the island and now they're the
investigator on the cruise ship.
Speaker 8 (12:16):
The entire training they've had in being a security guard
is generally the training that the cruise line gives them.
They're recruited in these countries and they apply for different
positions and that they get a job in security, then
the cruise line trains them themselves. They usually have no
military part.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
You're killing me. You just gagged me. Wait a minute,
Wait a minute, I just opened a whole can of worms.
Right there, you're hearing Spencer Aaronfeld talking the cruise ship
lawyer Joe Scott. Do you know how hard I had
to train to go on crime scenes as a district
attorney and assistant district attorney. How hard did you have
(12:57):
to train to be a death investigator? And now I
got a bouncer from some bar from the Caribbean, and
that's the cruise ship security. That's the investigator.
Speaker 7 (13:12):
Yeah, and here's another piece. If you like that one,
let me give you this one as well. We work
in a world now in forensic science where we're talking
about molecular evidence. Now, so to my colleague's earlier point,
where there's no manner of death ruled at this point
in time. If we're talking about a homicide here, we
(13:32):
start to get off in areas like DNA. We treat
scenes many times now, Nancy, those of us that are professionals,
as if we're going into surgery. You know, you see
us in the taiex suits with the hoods on and
the gloves and the booties and the mask and all that. Well,
there's a reason we do that. It's because the evidence
many times is very very fragile, and when you don't
(13:52):
when you don't have specific evidence at a scene that's
going to point o something, just like Comer, just like Coburg.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
No eyewitnesses, no confession, nothing, no fingerprints, no footprints, no nothing.
And if it had not been for molecular forensic evidence,
a quadruple homicide would have gone unsolved. There was no motive,
There was no connection that we knew of between Coburger
and his four victims. The state was just hanging in
(14:22):
the wind. We were gone until people like you came
in with molecular evidence. Think about it, The evidence was
found on the snap of the hilt of a knife
and got him dead in the water because of molecular evidence.
There is no way that investigators on this cruise ship
(14:44):
got molecular evidence.
Speaker 7 (14:47):
No. I just hope that they didn't compromise those things
that are there. Sometimes it's better just to keep your
hands off. But we know that that didn't happen because
in fact, they have to take care of the body.
That goes back to what you said earlier about play
the body in a location that is at minimum cool,
hopefully colder more like what we have actually in the morgue,
(15:08):
because at that point time we can cease or slow
down the process of decomposition. And also it secures the body.
How do I know where her remains were on that ship?
That other people didn't have access to her body? You know,
you go to the m's office and look, you're going
to have to pass through several layers or or gates
of security in order to get access to a body.
(15:29):
You're talking about a rolling city here with five thousand occupants,
just like our colleague said earlier, that are in the wind.
They're gone. Now, Nancy, how are you going to track
them down?
Speaker 5 (15:39):
You know?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
May to Spencer Erinfield the cruise ship lawyer, Spencer, let
me tell a story about what happened to us on
a Disney cruise through no fault of Disney. So you know,
they have like a tween hangout. I believe it's called
the Edge, which is edgy, where like if you're eleven
ten to say fourteen, you can go there and pretend
(16:01):
you're eighteen, right, and you play games. Believe me, I
stoop the whole thing out. They play games, they watch
Disney movies of course, and they have like kool aid
and pretzels, and there is a guard at the door.
The only entry exit. I checked the whole thing out.
So we went on another Disney cruise and John Lucy
(16:23):
wanted to come back from the edge and come to
the room. So I was already in my pajamas, shorts
and a T shirt and went to edge to go
get her. I bring her back with strict instructions to
John David, do not leave until I get back. He's like, sure.
I go back forty five minutes later, get Lucy all set.
(16:47):
He's not there. He was with a little friend from
our hometown and they left together. He thought it would
be okay, because I always say travel in a group.
I was running in my pajama up and down the
hallways of the Disney Cruise line, trying to find John David,
because you know how fast somebody could have dragged him
(17:07):
into one of their rooms, molested him and killed him,
just like that, out of all those thousands of rooms.
I went berserk. Now, granted, that was all on John David,
not on Disney. In fact, we went on another Disney
cruise after that that following summer, where I would not
(17:27):
I had a handcuffed to me. He could not leave
Lucy here, John David here, no matter where they went.
I was there, Spencer. This is so wrong, and people
wonder why I'm so angry and upset. This is I'm
not mad at the investigator who doesn't know what he,
she or doing. I'm mad because this is the only
thing left that we can do for this little girl.
(17:50):
This is it is to solve her case. Spencer.
Speaker 8 (17:55):
Well, probably Nancy, and I agree with you. The most
important evidence for me would be the surveillance video. These
cruise lines are wired like casinos from Boust, with high
definitions CCTV covering all the common areas, covering the elevators,
covering the dining rooms, the pool, the night bull. And
(18:18):
my question is where's the CCTV. In my experience, and
I've sued Carnival thousands of times, they will either not
have all the CCTV or failed to preserve it, which
is why I think the FBI boarding the ship the
minute it got to Fort Miami was essential for the
(18:39):
preservation of the CCTV. They're going to get it off
the ship and the FBI will take possession of it
before Carnival destroys it, loses it takes over it. I
think the cameras are going to tell a lot of the.
Speaker 9 (18:52):
Story of what happened to her senior year at Temple Christians,
and it paints her parking spot to match your favorite
movie Clueless and is ecstatic be back on the field
cheering for the Lions. Licensed to boat Ann scoobas she
enjoys making tiktoks with her friends and brother. Anna plans
on joining the military. In fact, she's waiting on the
results of her ASVAB testing to determine which jobs will
(19:13):
suit her best.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Anna's grandparents gift her a spring cruise as an eighteenth
birthday gift. Anna enjoys the experience so much she books
a six day trip with stops in Oto Rios, Jamaica,
the Grand Caymans, and Cosimo, Mexico. Anna Kefner is known
for her infectious spirit and love for people, with dreams
of serving her community through military service. That's why what
happens on her trip devastates all.
Speaker 7 (19:36):
And know her.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
How long had this little girl been dead in her
room if that's where she was actually found.
Speaker 10 (19:45):
Lindsay Allison, a passenger staying just down the hall from
Anna's room, remembers crew responding to a medical call around
eleven am Friday morning.
Speaker 8 (19:54):
Security never left. They guarded the room very well.
Speaker 10 (19:56):
Though she doesn't know what happened, Alison can imagine the
terror that ensues when your vacation turns into a floating prison.
Speaker 8 (20:03):
You're out in the middle of the ocean.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
You can't go anywhere, you can't get on land, you
can't sleep.
Speaker 10 (20:08):
Early Saturday, the last day of the Horizon's voyage, a
passenger is found dead. The cruise ship returns to port,
asking passengers to disembark quickly. The FBI now investigating the death.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
From our friends at Fox thirteenth Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,
Another debacle at sea, a case that may never be solved.
Now of this little cheerleader eerily reminiscent of the so
(20:43):
called Missing Groom, Captain Michael.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
May I give your attention please, every person may have
gone overboard last night.
Speaker 10 (20:53):
George Smith and his bride spend the night gambling with
friends they met on the Royal Caribbeans Brilliance of the Seas.
When the ship's casino closes, the group heads to the club,
but Jennifer leaves after a drunken argument with George. By
the time the club closes at three point thirty, the
young men have to carry George back to his room.
At four, around four thirty, neighbors here a sickening thud,
(21:15):
which investigators believe was George's body slamming against a lifeboat
canopy before falling into the ocean below.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that my
son was murdered on that cruise ship.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
There's so much evidence, it's overwhelming.
Speaker 8 (21:33):
It's just been a complete and awful nightmare for my family.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
That last bit from our friends at forty eight hours,
I personally investigated the George Smith missing groom case. Just
Gott Morgan, you also have studied the case. I spoke
with his mother, his sister at length, went through all
of the evidence. There is no way did you know
they tried to climb he fell over the rail when
(22:00):
the friends' friends that he just met in the bar
that night and they were all drinking absinthe, which you
know I believe it's outlawed, and certain jurisdictions so powerful.
They left him in his room and the rail to
George Smith's balcony was chest high and there were several
rails so nobody could just fall over the side. He
(22:25):
was thrown overboard and the evidence is overwhelming that he
was murdered. I agree with his mother that you just
heard speaking. But it's never been solved because everyone scattered.
As I said, to the four corners of the earth.
Speaker 7 (22:40):
Yeah, you took a look just at that image of
the blood deposition alone. You know, how has that explained?
And again, this is another great example of how can
the scene be processed or secured? Because I'm not thinking
I misspoke when I said processed. I would not expect
security on one of the ships to process a scene.
But they even understand basic scene security, how you lock
(23:04):
down an area once you get there, and you understand
the value and how delicate this evidence is, you know,
to get back to port in order to allow those
that are professionals to work the scene, to interpret the scene.
So now you've got a fantastical story about this, this
fellow going over this rail that's chest high. These rails
(23:26):
are designed this way for a reason. It would take
him being propelled in order to get over the side.
And so that's that's one of these things. It's a
fantastic example of what a potential train wreck these deaths
are at sea, Nancy.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
And of course there had been arguments the night before
he had a huge argument with his fiance. Well, they
had just gotten married, this is their honeymoon. She Jennifer,
I could recall her name, was spotted on cam like
sitting in a hallway completely drunk, just you know, had
been totally overserved. Long story short. I don't think she
(24:05):
had anything to do with his death, but I believe
he was murdered potentially by people he was with at
the bar that night. And when I say, by the way,
Joe Scott, that the real was chest high, that's chest
high on me, not on you. Okay, I'm five to
one and a half. You're like, what six two or
six three, so it would be different. But still it
(24:26):
was to a height. He didn't just fall over. He
had to be, as you said, propelled. And part of
the problem Doctor Angela Arnold with us psychiatrist. You can
find her at Angela Arnold MD dot com. Doctor Angie
is the family never will know what happened. And here
with this little cheerleader, we see the same thing all
(24:50):
over again with Anna terrific Nancy.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
It's a form of trauma that this family will never
be able to get over. That's why, you know, that's
why we have funerals and things like this. It's for
people to process the death of someone. But if you
never ever know what actually happened to that person, you
can never fully process their death, and so they will
all be traumatized by those in ways that we don't
(25:18):
even realize for the rest of their lives. It's true,
it's very sad.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Anna is mourned by classmates and teachers at Temple Christian.
Mister Bruner writes a heartfelt note. Your curiosity, your gentle spirit,
and the way you cared for those around you made
a lasting impression on me and on everyone who knew you.
Anna's family parks her car in the parking spot for
the last time. The white key is stacked high with
bouquets of Anna's favorite flowers.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Susan Hendrick is joining US investigative journalists and author. Susan,
there's something that's so poignant about that photo of her
car in her little parking spot. Seniors get their own spot,
and she painted hers after her favorite movie Clueless. Her
car was still part there and then everyone began putting
(26:03):
flowers on it, and it reminds me, Susan, you and
I have both lived in the South. How it's very typical.
You'll be driving along the interstate and you'll see a
cross covered in flowers. It's all that's left. The family
is so bereft. All they can do is go put
flowers on her car. It's just it's heartbreaking to me.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
Yeah, when I see that car, I think of a
teenager with their whole lives ahead of them, and the
school decided, hey, we're going to keep that car there.
It's staying put for now. And you see all the
memorials that young girl's best friends thinking she was just
here what happened? And as doctor Arnold was talking and
Joe Scott, I'm thinking, is that the place to commit
(26:49):
the perfect crime? That floating vessel. I mean, it's blocked off,
it's already back out at sea. Passengers are shuffled off
and there's no answers.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Okay, Robert Crisp and is joining us at the Port
of Miami, the departure spot for all of these cruises
we're talking about. Okay, Robert Crispin, get ready, it's not
just Anna that dies at sea. Now we've got Dulcy White,
a loving wife and mom who apparently is overserved, falls
(27:21):
over the edge and the boat doesn't even go back
to look for her.
Speaker 10 (27:26):
Dulcy White, a loving wife to Terry, a mom of
three nursing patients in West Berlin, New York. When Dulcy's
daughter Meghan suggests they take a girl's trip, Dulcy immediately
suggests a cruise.
Speaker 9 (27:38):
Dulci a Meghan decide on a four day Taylor Swift
themed cruise to Nasau and Royal Caribbean's Cocoa Key. The
cruise promises themed efense, friendship bracelet exchanges and a clever
T shirt in my cruise era for fifteen hundred per person.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
I mean to you, Robert Crispin, what could be more
fun than that? A Taylor Swift theme cruise without all
all the girls, the young teen girls running around exchanging
those friendship bracelets, and some grown man I've seen wearing
the tailor's with her whatever. So much fun, so innocent.
But the allegation tonight is she was horribly overserved and
(28:17):
fell overboard and the ship didn't even turn around to
go find her nothing. They just let her drown. What's
the likelihood we'll ever gonna find her body?
Speaker 5 (28:29):
That's never gonna happen In an open sea in the
middle of nowhere. You know, Nancy.
Speaker 6 (28:34):
Everything starts off so exciting and everyone's happy when I
get on this cruise ship. But the problem is when
somebody falls off and the cruise ship pilot does not
turn the vessel around, and Williamson turn and Anderson turn,
that didn't happen. That allegation alone is sickening and it
makes people not want to get out a cruise ship.
(28:55):
God forbid something happens.
Speaker 10 (28:57):
Dulcie and Meghan depart Miami on board the Allure of
the Seas. Dulcy decides to sclurge on a drink package
as well, opting for Royal Caribbeans Deluxe Beverage Package so
she doesn't need to pay for individual drinks.
Speaker 9 (29:10):
Royal Caribbeans Deluxe Beverage Package can cost more than one
hundred dollars per day, not including an eighteen percent gratuity
charged at the end of the cruise.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Dulcy White eagerly boards the All in On Taylor Swift
Cruise with her family, expecting to have a wonderful weekend
filled with all her favorite songs. Little does she know
this trip will soon turn into a tragedy.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
That's right, it's not just that gorgeous teen girl cheerleader
Anna Kepner that dies at sea. Now a mom of
three dead and the boat didn't even turn around to
try and look for her body. Why joining us an
all star panel, you know, I just want to be
clear about something to Robert Crispin, former DEEA former vice.
(29:57):
That's where this comes in. Ford j who's joining us
there at the Port of Miami and the States. It's
against the law to overserve someone who is obviously inebriated.
What those rules don't apply on a cruise ship, you.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
Know, Nancy, You would think it does, but it doesn't.
Speaker 6 (30:14):
And sadly enough, even though they're inebriated, they're staggering, their
slurge speech, their bloodshot, watery eyes, they're still getting alcohol served.
Speaker 5 (30:22):
Why because they got the wristband on. It's the deluxe
all you can drink. What happens they get them back
to their room.
Speaker 11 (30:30):
They end up dying or something bad, really bad happens
to these people, and there's no accountability, you.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Know, part of it though, Doctor Angie Arnold joining us,
renowned psychiatrist. I think when you get on a cruise ship,
I kind of did it with the twins. Of course,
we're all teetotalers. Sadly we're not in the party. But
you think you're safe. You're surrounded by children, adults don't
get to come like just on their own pervs wandering around,
(30:58):
I don't think anyway, and you just feel totally insulated,
especially on a Disney cruise. And I'm wondering if that
has anything to do with the attitude on cruise ships.
You think, oh, I can drink as much as I want.
All have to do is walk to my room.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Well, Nancy, what I was thinking about was this, once
a person has had a certain amount to drink, they're
really not in control of their cognition at some point,
so they're being overserved. And they really don't realize that
they're being overserved because the alcohol is affecting their brain
(31:35):
so they're no longer capable of making good choices. That's
why in the United States it's illegal to overserve people.
So it's really quite a shame because they can ask
and ask for more, but Nancy, they're not aware of
what they're doing.
Speaker 8 (31:51):
And then something tragic.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
Like this happens Tuesday night. Do we'll see and Meghan
grabbing drinks along with pizza. Meghan is socializing with other fans,
doesn't notice her inebriated after ordering drinks back to back.
By seven point thirty, another passenger has taken note of
Doolsey's glassy eyed slurring and struggling to maintain balance. The
concerned passenger escorts Doolsey back to the room.
Speaker 10 (32:12):
Megan returns shortly after and is shocked by how intoxicated
her mother is. She's never seen her mother in this
kind of state. The mom and daughter start getting ready
for bed. To save space, the pair leave their suitcases
out on the balcony, so they have to venture out
to grab fresh clothes.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Nine p forty, Meghan notices Duolsey out on the balcony
and assumes her mom is grabbing pajamas. When she next looks,
she sees Doolsey sitting on the railing of the balcony,
her feet dangling over the edge. Before Meghan can get
to her, Doolsey slips off the balcony and Megan can't
catch her as she falls into the water below.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
Oh my stars, straight out to the cruise ship. Lawyer,
Spencer Erenfeld, you're the lawyer for Doulcy White's family. I'm stunned.
She was served so much she could barely walk. Everybody
let it happen. Then she falls over board. Her daughter
(33:08):
races to catch her and couldn't make it. Is it
true the ship didn't even turn around after the daughter
raised the alarm.
Speaker 8 (33:16):
Well, the case has just been filed, Nancy. We don't
have all of the ship position logs. We don't have
the captain's logs. So I have what the family has
told me, which there was a delay in initiating the
man overboard protocol. But once we start taking depositions and
getting all of the data from the ship, I could
(33:37):
answer that question specifically. But the allegation from the daughter
who watched her mother fall to her death is that
the ship did not stop, did not contact the US
Coast Guard or Bahamian Coast Guard immediately, and did not
initiate rescue efforts timely. But I also wanted to say this, Nancy,
(33:58):
and I've investigated one hundred of man overboard cases. The
common denominator is always alcohol, and in most cases, the
over service of alcohol and cruise line do have a
legal responsibility under federal maritime law to not overserve visibly
(34:19):
intoxicated passengers. The problem is this perfect storm of the
all you can drink drink package encourages people to want
to get their money's worth because they've already prepaid it.
And the crew members are incentivized to serve and keep
serving because that's how they get tips. So the cruise
(34:42):
lines pay these folks below a minimum wage. They're not
subject the federal minimal minimum wage laws, so they're paying
these guys pennies on the pennies per hour. And if
they can get a dollar two dollars five dollars tips
per passenger fifteen times an hour, they're gonna keep serving
(35:02):
and scarming and sport. And it's really a recipe for disaster.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Crime stories.
Speaker 12 (35:13):
With Nancy Grace.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
To Sidney Summer joining US Crime Stories, investigative reporter, what
about Williamson and Anderson? Those are two distinct maritime maneuvers
that are to be employed when someone is a quote
man overboard. Right.
Speaker 12 (35:34):
That obviously did not happen in this case. It feels
like Royal Caribbean did nothing to try and save Doolcy.
Despite Meghan's quick report of what happened to her mom.
Meghan says she felt hopeless and that no one did
anything in any timely manner. After she reported her mom
fell overboard.
Speaker 10 (35:54):
Megan immediately reports her mother's fall overboard to crew members,
but the ship does not perform a Williamson or Anderson
turn to return to the man overboard location, and no
rescue boats are launched. The crew doesn't even immediately report
Dulcie missing, though her fall was caught on the ship's cameras. Eventually,
cruise from the Royal Bahamas Defense Force and the US
(36:15):
Coast Guard search for dulci employing helicopters, but Dulcie's body
is not recovered.
Speaker 13 (36:22):
She did overdo it, just trying to maybe get her
money is worth. I don't know. It saddens me that
that is my last memory of her.
Speaker 2 (36:33):
From CBS, Dulce White falls from the balcony after allegedly
being served one too many drinks. Her body is never recovered,
leaving her family and friends in shock and mourning.
Speaker 10 (36:44):
Dulce White's family files a lawsuit, claiming the cruise line
overserved her alcohol and delayed an emergency response. The filing
alleges Dulcy was served seven drinks in six hours and
eight minutes despite obvious signs of intoxication. The cruise line
is accused of failing to comply with statutes enumerated in
US maritime law when they failed to launch an adequate
(37:06):
search for Julcy.
Speaker 13 (37:08):
It will haunt us for the rest of our lives.
I feel that the over consumption of alcohol and the
over service of alcohol was the cause of this.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Now, for my friends at CBS, the daughter literally haunted
the rest of her life because she didn't catch her
mom before she fell overboard. Was it her fault? No,
but I'm sure she has survivor guilt. And these two
that we've highlighted tonight, Dulce and Anna, they aren't the
only ones. Does the name Amy Bradley ring a bell?
Because I will never forget it.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Amy Bradley was twenty three and she was on her
family vacation.
Speaker 9 (37:47):
The water was crystal clear. Her life is good, everything
is great.
Speaker 8 (37:51):
Taught us here tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
They went to bed.
Speaker 8 (37:55):
Around five thirty in the morning.
Speaker 9 (37:56):
I saw Amy on the balcony six o'clock again, she
wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
He said, I've been looking for Amy and I can't
find her.
Speaker 8 (38:05):
And we check every inch of the ship.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
The captain came in. He says the FBN, they've search Gord,
daughter's not on this bank.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Now years have passed and we've had so many sightings.
Speaker 1 (38:20):
I saw her that from our friends at Netflix. Amy
Bradley is missing. To be told by the captain, your
daughter's not on this boat. How do you know that?
How do you know she's not on the boat. I mean,
Robert Crispin, you're joining us from port of Miami. How
big are these behaymoths?
Speaker 11 (38:39):
They're massive, They're massive, and Nancy, if they told him that,
then they knew something. They looked at the cameras, they
saw a fall, they knew something.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
But how can you tell someone.
Speaker 6 (38:51):
That when you haven't even done an investigation, if you
don't see your falling off the boat on a cruise ship.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
You know, the ship from which Anna Kevin went missing
was monstrous huge. There were thousands and thousands of not
only cruise ship passengers. I tried to add it up.
Let's say the fourteen deck Carnival Horizon sales the carib
(39:19):
Caribbean four thousand passengers and fifteen hundred person crew. That's
at least fifty five hundred people. And they come in
and tell the dad yet she's not on the ship. Okay,
and there's more.
Speaker 4 (39:37):
Now years have passed and we've had so many sightings.
Speaker 12 (39:42):
I saw her.
Speaker 11 (39:43):
That's where I was standing.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Amy's life.
Speaker 9 (39:46):
Your taxi driver said, your daughter, he's on this owl
and she could have been lured on the ship.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I saw in the rest of Bob Barbadis. I said,
what's your name? Amy?
Speaker 7 (39:55):
I was in toros onand girl said, my name is
Amy Bradley.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
I need of I thought that could be Amy from
our friends at Netflix. Amy Bradley missing and it's still unsaw,
which goes back to Joe Scott Morgan's insistence that you
have to solve the case before everyone departs from the ship.
Joe Scott, I'm not sure you're familiar with Jackie Castanellis.
(40:22):
Another similar cruise chip misshap Well.
Speaker 14 (40:25):
She was in New York City, waitteressing on her way
to becoming a star. She went to some open call
auditions and this was one of them for this high
end cruise line and Alon Behold. They called her back.
Speaker 15 (40:38):
They liked what they saw on her and booked her
onto the first of what turned out to be three
cruises over the course of the next year and a half.
That was her really her first big break doing what
she loved doing, which was singing and performing.
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Robert Crispin joining us there at the Port of Miami. Robert,
if they can't keep up with the safekeeping of their
own employees. She was a performer, right, She was there
as part of the performances that the ship puts on to,
you know, entertain the passengers. They can't keep up with
a star performer. She ends up dead in her room
(41:16):
and nobody knows what happened, much less the passengers.
Speaker 11 (41:22):
Let me tell you some if you've ever been on
one of these, they're floating cities.
Speaker 5 (41:25):
They can't keep track of everybody. They just can't. It's impossible.
Speaker 1 (41:30):
To you, Joe Scott Morgan, exactly why you were insisting
that the case be investigated while everyone is still on
the cruise ship, before witnesses can leave like they did
in the George Smith case and evidence lost. I mean,
they're never going to find Dulcie's body ever.
Speaker 7 (41:49):
No, no, they will not gone forever and ever. Amen,
you know we're covering a similar case as well, not
similar in that sense in the sense of the crew lines,
but you know, we had the burning man homicide from
a couple of months ago and Nancy, there were seventy
thousand people at that event. There's a high probability that
that will never be solved. Do you know why? That
(42:10):
was a non permanent location where people just went into
the wind from all over the world. It's identical to
the cruise lines as well. You have these people that
go down there for fun. They relaxed they should be.
You've earned it, you pay for it. You go down there,
you want a taste of the good life, and then
you begin to indulge in alcohol. You meet strangers. Some
(42:31):
of them you don't know who they are, where they're from,
You don't know what their intentions are relative to you.
And so it's not like working in Atlanta or New
Orleans or New York or wherever where you have a
static location where you can go out and process a scene.
You can go out and canvas and interview people and
all these sorts of things. This is an absolute nightmare
(42:52):
scenario for everyone involved.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
Spencer Aaronfield, cruise ship lawyer Dulcy is your what are
you going to do? Man?
Speaker 8 (43:04):
So the first thing we're going to find is the
surveillance video. We're going to interview the servers. We're going
to find out what they saw, what they knew, what
they observed. We're going to get the ship's position log
and find out from the moment that the daughter called
the bridge and informed them that her mom had gone
(43:25):
off the side of the ship, how long did it
take the ship to notify the Coastguard, notify the Bahamian authorities,
and to initiate any type of man overboard protocols. There's
technology available right now that alerts the bridge without having
(43:45):
to have a call. It's actually mandated by funeral law.
But most cruise lines are not following this and they
do not have installed man overboard technology. To my knowledge,
the only cruise line that is really fully compliant with
that is Disney. But all these new mega cruise ships
are coming out that are floating cities. They are doing
(44:07):
it in contradiction to US federal maritime law and they
do not have man overboard technology. There are so many
ways now that passengers who go overboard can be found.
A simple air tag can be included on their lanyard
so that when they go overboard, they can find them
(44:27):
with GPS within seconds. But the cruise lines choose to
put their profits ahead of passenger safety, and they don't
invest in the technology that they're required to have, and
they can easily have to rescue people that go off
the side of ships.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
Two more unsolved cruise ship fatalities. If you know or
think you know anything about these cases, please contact Miami
F ANDBI seven five four seven zero three two thousand,
repeat seven five four seven zero three two thousand. Your
(45:05):
tip may make the difference in solving these cases. We
remember American hero Deputy Sheriff Lawrence Canfield, Sacramento County Sheriffs, California,
killed in the line of duty after thirteen years serving
and protecting, leaving behind his grieving wife and two children
without a dad. American hero Deputy Sheriff Lawrence Canfield. Nancy
(45:31):
Gray signing off goodbye Frien
Host
Nancy Grace
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