September 14, 2023 • 39 mins
Ruby Franke makes shocking claims in court. The mom accused of child abuse, claims that one of her minor children sexually abused siblings, and molested several other family members, and children in the neighborhood, for years.
Franke alleges one of her children began looking at pornography at just 3 years old. Franke says two children played a "patting game" with each other, but did not give details to the court about that game.
Franke provided no proof of her allegations. The judge then said that her alleged abusive child 'will then need to be placed in a home with no other children.'
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Heidi Nestel - Executive Director of Utah Crime Victims Legal Clinic (a non-profit legal firm that provides free legal representation to victims in the criminal justice system) and Former County Prosecutor; FaceBook: Utah Crime Victims Legal Clinic, Instagram: @utahvictimsclinic
- Dr. Dana Anderson – Forensic Psychologist, Forensic Expert; Twitter: @psychologydrcom, TikTok: @psychologydr
- Jason Jensen – Private Investigator (Jensen Private Investigations), Cold Case Expert (Salt Lake City, UT), and Co-founder: “Cold Case Coalition;” Investigations; Twitter: @JasonJPI, Facebook/Instagram: “Jensen Investigations”
- Brad Watts - Licensed Professional Counselor and Certified Sex Offender Treatment Provider (who specializes in working with families where sibling sexual abuse has occurred); Author: “Sibling Sexual Abuse: America’s Silent Epidemic;" bradwattslpc.com, Instagram: @bradwattslpc
- Shelby Asher, BSN, RN, NYSAFE, SANE-P, SANE-P - Sexual Assault Forensic Nurse Examiner and Forensic Nurse Expert with Godoy Medical Forensics (extensive background, and training in pediatric physical and sexual assault); Twitter: @godoyforensics, FB: Godoy Medical Forensics Incorporated
- Emily Ashcraft- Reporter, KSL.com in Utah; Twitter: @emilyjaneen3
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Crime Stories with Nancy Greece, incredibly famous YouTuber, a mommy vlogger,
Ruby Frankie. Her family now says she should be quote
put away in jail forever. Really you're saying that? Now, well,
(00:30):
where were you when her children? And this is a
mommy vlagger that gives millions of people parenting advice. Where
were you Frankie family when she was duct taping her
children and starving them? Where were you when she was
keeping them hidden in the house? Now you want her
(00:54):
in jail? Daylight dollar short I Nancy Grace, this is
Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
Foxcination and Serious XM one eleven. This now notorious mommy vlogger.
He believes she is telling all of us how to
raise children. You know, I learned that police or defects
(01:20):
would go to the home and the children would actually hide.
They wouldn't speak to the teachers or the school detectives.
They tried to find out what was going And you
know what, shame on them, not the children, but the cops,
defects and school detectives who didn't follow up. When you
have a child that basically hides from you when you're
(01:42):
asking it a simple question. There's something horribly wrong, but
they just dropped the ball and it resulted in a
little boy, starved, bound with duct tape, sneaking out and
running to an neighbor's home to try to get something
(02:02):
to drink and eat. Yeah, and then when Ruby Frankie
ends up in court, guess what she does. I hope
you're sitting down. You may need to lay down for this.
She actually blames her children and said that at least
one of them started watching porn when he was three
years old, and that they're molesting each other. What oh,
(02:28):
did they starve themselves too and bind themselves with duct tape? Guys,
let's just start at the beginning with a nine to
one one call.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Listen, I just had a twelve year old boy show
up here at my front door asking for help. And
he's said he had just came from a neighbor's house,
and we know there's been problems at this neighbor's house.
He's emaciated, he's got tape around his legs, he's hungry,
and he's thirsty, sitting outside with him on the front patio,
(03:05):
and he asked us to call the police. So he's
very afraid.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
He's twelve years old, okay, And are the neighbors alex
of our home or is anybody looking for them that
you can see?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
No, we are homes are part enough away. I'm not sure.
How did you get out of the house, he says,
he just left through the porch at the neighbor's house.
Their name is Jody Hill. The brand I think Cana.
The houses are far apart, so he walked just under
(03:37):
the block to get to our house. He rang my
doorbell and asked me to call the police.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So it's my understanding with me. An incredible panel. But
first to Emily Ashcroft, reporter KSL dot com in Utah, Emily,
thank you for being with us. From what I'm deciphering
from the nine on one call, I'm sure we'll learn
exactly the answers to all of these questions is that
the little boy wanted them to call nine to one one.
(04:05):
He's twelve years old, and he's very afraid, emaciated and
bound with duct tape.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, that's what it sounds like. He tried to get out,
and that is a good strategy to go to a
neighbor's home and ask for emergency help in this situation.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
This kid must have been so afraid to run to
a neighbor's and beg them to call nine one one.
Let's listen to more than n im on one call
to find out what else we can learn.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
His ankles are taped up and he won't tell us why.
But he has duct taped around each ankle. Yeah, there's
sores around him. I think the good chance he's been.
Oh and he has been around his ankles. I mean
he's rists as well. Okay, this boy has been. This
(04:54):
kid has obviously been. I think he's been. He's been detained,
he's obviously covered in wounds.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Okay, let's get the paramedics headed over that way.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Okay, Oh that's a good idea too.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
See has he told you where his mom or dad are?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Do you know where your mommy is?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I really got well, actually I don't know where my
mom is, but I do know where my dad is.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
He's not here, don't know where Okay, no, he doesn't
see them. He usually knows.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Where his mom is, he doesn't know where his dad is.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
So much to figure out right there, I want to
go to Shelley Asher. Listen to all these initials, B S,
N are in N why safe same dash Pe sex
assault forensic nurse examiner, I know that much. Forensic nurse
expert with Gay Joy Medical Forensics, extensive background and pediatric
(05:58):
physical and sex assault Shelby Asher, thank you for being
with us. Did you hear the male nine on one
call or break down in tears saying he's got duct
type around each ankle, around his wists and there's sores
around them. That means in my mind, he's been duct
(06:20):
taped for a long time and now there are sores.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
For me, Yeah, absolutely, Nancy, You know I wouldn't be
shocked it really. You know, there are some dependent factors depends,
like you said, how long they've been there, how tight
these were on his extremities. But yeah, generally i'd expect
to see, you know, some patterned injury, meaning ligature like
(06:44):
marks around in this case his anklden wrists. I definitely
expect to see abrasions lacerations due to you know, the
shearing of the skin in those areas.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
What do you mean by sharing of the skin, you know.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
The top layer kind of rubbing off like an abrasion,
just from that friction of having that bound his ankles
and rest.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
And just thinking about this little boy and his little
sister that was back in the home. Listen to more
of that nine one one you know where?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
He just says he doesn't live around here. Does your
mom around here? Have you seen her lately? He doesn't
know where she is right now? What's your mom's name? Ruby? Frankie?
Ruby Frankie is his mom's name? F R A M. Katie,
(07:35):
He says, he what's happened to him as his fault.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
God to hear they're coming to you as because they can. Okay, okay, yeah,
really want to make sure he's finding But I've got
him sitting here in my wife.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
He got water and something to give him, something to
eat because he's really he's hungry and a young man,
he said him his hearing his stocking feet, so he escaped.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Does he have anything with him?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
No, he's run a long sleeve shirt and shorts and
it's a way too big for him.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Can you tell me what color is that short?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
The ambulance is here joining me. Thank Goodness is a
forensic psychologist and consultant at psychology doctor dot com. Doctor
Dana Anderson, Doctor Dana, thank you so much for being
with us. It really struck me when you can hear
the little boy saying in the background, living separate, they're divorcing.
(08:37):
My dad is quote nowhere. He doesn't know where his
mom is. And even more striking, he says this is
He says, this is his fault. It's his fault that
he is starving with his bones poking out. It's his fault.
He's covered in wounds, and nobody's really telling us what
(09:00):
those wounds are. But I do know that there are
open sores associated with the duct tape on the wrists
and the ankles, and at one point I read across
his body, which I'm taking to mean the waist or
the chest. In some manner, I know those are our wounds.
(09:25):
Other accounts say open wounds. But he says it's all
his fault. Okay, you know what, if someone asks my
children right now, where is your mom? They would say
she's in the studio. I wouldn't have to tell them
(09:45):
where I am. They know where I am, and I
know where they are according to where I left them
this morning and according to Life three sixty, which I
monitor constantly. If someone asks my children, where's your dad
right now, they would say at his office. We know
where each other is supposed to be. So one he
(10:08):
doesn't know where his mom is, he doesn't know where
his dad is. He says dad is nowhere, and he
thinks all of this is his fault, his fault. You know.
It reminds me of batter women. So is their fault.
They're getting the hell beat out of them, sometimes the
life beat out of them. When I worked at the
Battered Women's Center, I remember when one woman got a
(10:31):
horrible beating that landed her in the hospital. Her husband
said he wanted Mexican for dinner. She made tacos and
he beat her because she made Enchilada's wait, he wanted tacos,
She made enchilada something like that, and she thought that
was her fault. So help me out here, doctor Dana.
Speaker 6 (10:48):
Yeah, it's just heartbreaking to share that ninety one one
call and just putting myself in his position. That boy,
you know wash just like you said, like battered woman's syndrome,
just that battered syndromes.
Speaker 7 (11:05):
Over and over.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
They're being led to believe that it's their fault, that
there's something wrong with them, that something that they're doing
that they need to stop. And that's why they're being abused,
and that that they have to rationalize the punishment. And
then this is what you often hear in victims who
have just been beaten down emotionally and psychologically. Over time,
(11:29):
they tried to cope and rationalize and make sense of it,
so confusing to your brain why this is happening? So
they can say, well, it's my fault if I wouldn't
have done that, if I could have done better, but
I did this.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Why do people do that? Why do they think it's them, like, Oh,
my husband, shady, that's my fault because I'm overweight and
that was not It's not your fault that he did that.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
If you isolate a victim for so long, and isolation
is what's happening in this case, and you only have
that authoritarians figure telling you, it's like brainwashing.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Okay, I got a theory, doctor, Diana. What about this?
You can't accept that the person you love so much
is a monster? Okay, here's an example. A friend told
me about an acquaintance that shot his dog with a
bb gun repeatedly, and the dog kept crawling toward the owner.
(12:30):
The dog. That's the only thing the dog knew. This
is who feeds me. This is where I sleep, this
is my I guess master. And even though the guy
was shooting him with a BB gun, the dog would
crawl toward the owner. And I've never understood that. And
when I'm thinking about this, how awful it must be
(12:53):
for a little child baby to accept the mom has
left me alone, the mom is starving me, the mom
bound me. I don't know where she is. I don't
know where my dad is. And so they blame themselves,
because sometimes that's easier to blame yourself than to accept
your whole world's falling apart. The one person you love
(13:15):
hates you.
Speaker 6 (13:15):
It's so terribly conflicting because this is also the mother,
the person that's supposed to be nurturing or has nurtured
you at times. This is the person that's supposed to
feed you and has before. They need that person they have.
They're reliant on them, as damies or children are on
their parents.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Poor kid, this whole world falling apart. Well, that little
boy says, my sisters still back in this home. So
the cops finally show up and do something. Instead of
looking in the window and see the children cowering and
do nothing, take a listen to our friends a Ku TV.
Speaker 8 (13:53):
The neighbor clearly moved to tears and.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
This boy has been. This kid is obviously I think
he's been. He's entertained, he's obviously covered in wounds.
Speaker 8 (14:10):
Once officers arrived, this is what they discovered inside Hildebrand's home.
Speaker 9 (14:15):
There's aside the garage downstairs underneath the grudges.
Speaker 8 (14:18):
Yeah, some of that audio you just heard is one
law enforcement appeared to be trying to find some of
the boys' siblings.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Okay, who is this person? Hilda Brant? So Emily askov
let me understand this. Jodie Hildebrant, we believe was a
marriage counselor to vlogger mom with over two million followers,
Ruby Frankie. She then became a friend, moved into the
(14:47):
Frankie home for a period of time, and then it
looks like became her co host on Connections, a kind
of an offshoot of Eight Passengers. Eight Passengers was Ruby
Frankie's show for lack of a Better World.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, yeah, so more recently, that's the YouTube channel that
they've been running, and they have an Instagram together called
Moms of Truth.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Oh Dear Lord in Heaven, Okay, I'll tell you what
I know about this friend. Co anchored Jesse Hilda Brant
speaks out. This is Jody Hildebrant's niece. I want you
guys to take a listen if you can stand it
to our cut seventy eight. This is Jody Hilda Brant,
the marriage counselor, describing what happened to her listen. I
(15:31):
was physically.
Speaker 10 (15:35):
I was forced to sleep outside in the snow. I was,
like I said, isolated from up to twelve hours a
day if someone wanted, if someone spoke to me directly,
if I wasn't wearing duct tape on my mouth, I
had to just stare at them and not respond. Because
she also had systems of people that would report back
(15:56):
to her if I broke any of these rules. And
her whole thing, which is deeply darkly ironic, is that
everything is stems from shame, and how horrible shame.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Is, and that.
Speaker 10 (16:12):
All of the reasons, like all of mental illness, all ticks,
so like ocd's addiction, everything stems from shame, which is
just horrifying because she is the greatest perpetuator of shame.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And this is who Ruby Frankie has with her children.
Also on our panel is executive director of Utah Crime
Victims Legal Clanet. It's a nonprofit who represents his victims.
Former County Prosecutor Heidi Nestle is with us. Heidi, thank
(16:49):
you so much for being with us. So the children
are starved, they are covered in open wounds, they are
duct taped at least at the risk and the angles
end quote across the body. The little boy says, dad's divorcing.
He's quote nowhere. I don't know where mommy is. And
(17:09):
they're in this home with this woman who's I guess
her theory is to shame people into a certain behavior.
What happened? I know there have been many calls to
this home. Why are the children still there?
Speaker 11 (17:24):
That's an excellent question. I mean, these are the most
serious physical charges, physical abuse charges that we have in Utah.
But they've been charged with and so it makes sense
that this did not just happen overnight. This abuse was
going on for a long time, and it does call
into question, you know, who saw what, especially as far
(17:48):
as Matt Hildegrand is concerned. The reason she's been charged
for the exact same crime is because in Utah we
have accomplished liability that if you aid or encourage someone
to commit a crime, that's as if you're committing the
crime yourself. And so it's appropriate that she's been charged
and likely will be held accountable for these atrocious crime.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
You know, Jason Jensen is with me. I agree with
everything Heidi Nestell just said. Jason Jensen Jensen private investigator, owner,
Jensen Private Investigations, co founder of the Cold Case Coalition,
and you can find him at Jensenprivate Investigations dot com.
Don't you see a similar transaction happening. You've got the
(18:34):
adult niece of Jodah Hildebrandt saying I wasn't allowed to
speak to anybody, had duct tape on my mouth, and
now we see these children bound in duct tape? What
about that? Jason Jensen, I'm not surprised. When can you
sound so calm? I'm just curious. I'm not surprised. I'm
surprised as hell, and I see it every day. But
(18:55):
the hypocrisy of this woman being a we've logged to look.
I do the best I can with the children I do,
and I know I'm not an expert, and it would
be a cold ay in Hgublel. But I try to
give parenting advice. I want people to give me parenting advice,
and her children are duct taped, they're starved. Jason Jensen, Well, yeah,
(19:17):
I'm shocked. Where's the outrage?
Speaker 9 (19:20):
Probably because I'm not gonna disrupt your show by personally
being emotional about it.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
But what makes me so better about you? You're trying
to save crime stories.
Speaker 7 (19:31):
Okay, go ahead, exactly.
Speaker 9 (19:32):
So basically, the reason why I say I'm not surprised
is this came out of somewhere in her path. It
wasn't just something they invented. So clearly this is something
that she's been cultivating and using in her path. I
guess therapy sessions, which clearly is you know, in my definition,
(19:53):
cruel and unusual for what she's using against her own
family members alone. You know, the Frankie family, What you
put these kids through is cruel, It is torturous, and
it is criminal, So it's going to be hard for
them to justify. And then you know, for what Ruby
(20:15):
Frankie tried to raise in her hearing as the excuse
for is abhorrent.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, you're not gonna believe
what you're gonna hear next. It's not just Ruby Frankie,
It's not just Jadie Hildebrant. The system how to hand
in this. Brad Wats is joining me. Listen to this.
Brad Our Cut sixty sixty one from KSL.
Speaker 12 (20:51):
Records reveal officers responded to Frankie's home in Springville fifteen
times between March twenty nineteen and last week. In April
twenty two, records showed DCFS asked Springville PD to drive
through the neighborhood. In September last year, Frankie's oldest daughter
asked police to check on her younger siblings after hearing
(21:11):
from neighbors that Frankie had left them home alone in.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Springville for days.
Speaker 12 (21:16):
According to police records, the kids were seen through the
windows but would not answer the door, but neighbors told
officers Ruby Frankie would leave her children home for extended
periods of time and go to Saint George to spend
time with her friend, Jody. Hildebrandt's records show police went
back to the Springville home four more times after that
to assist DCFS.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
But nothing was done, and when school members tried to
speak to them. Nothing was done, nothing at all, so
the children continued to starve and be bound. That's not all.
Take a listen to our friends at KSL. This is
Shelby Lofton.
Speaker 13 (21:56):
Neighbors told me everyone noticed the Frankie's windows being covered
in paper earlier this year. We drove by the Frankie's
house today. No one looked like they were home, but
the front door, which looks like it's cracked, is covered
in several strips of black tape. Neighbors told us Kevin Frankie,
Ruby's husband moved out of the family home about one
(22:17):
year ago. Kevin Frankie is now back at that address.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
So Brad Watts, licensed professional counselor, certified sex Offender Treatment provider,
specializes in sibling sex abuse and I want to talk
to you about Reby Frankie's clients as all our children's
thought that they're abusing each other. He's the author of
Sibling Sex Abuse, America's Silent Epidemic and you can find
(22:41):
me at Brad Watts LPC dot com. Brad, what do
you make of the fact that police didn't help defects
didn't help the school detective and counselors. They didn't help.
All they were and the neighbors, they all noticed, they
all knew something was wrong, but they did nothing.
Speaker 7 (23:01):
Nancy, this is just mind blowing. I mean, one of
the first things that popped out to me is the
fact that they didn't do their due diligence on anything.
It's a complete failure. And I would think just anybody
kind of around or familiar you make those calls and
then you go in and investigate in the home, and
the fact that all these different opportunities that they drop
(23:22):
the ball on this is just just really horrific. And
you know, we see the results with the kids. I
can't help but wonder, with all these different calls, all
these different people, you know, you know, seeing red flags
from the family, why in the world this wasn't investigated.
So I'd really be interested to hear what their excuses
for this.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Is, denying the children's food and care, leaving them alone
for days. If this woman wasn't famous, you don't think
she would have been arrested by now. All you have
to do is listen to her on her eight passengers
are now the new connections with our hitch person, Joey Hildebrant,
(24:05):
take a listen to Really Frank on eight Passengers.
Speaker 14 (24:08):
I just got a text message from Eve's teacher and
she said that Eve did not pack a lunch today
and can I bring a lunch over to the school.
This happens quite often when you're having raising children, because
I know that her teacher is uncomfortable with her being
hungry and not having a lunch, and it would ease
(24:29):
her discomfort if I came to the school with lunch.
But I responded and just said Eve is responsible for
making her lunches in the morning, and she actually told
me she did pack a lunch. So the natural outcome
is she's just going to need to be hungry and
hopefully nobody gives her food, and nobody steps in and
gives her a lunch, and my.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Kids are literally starving. I hesitate to say.
Speaker 15 (24:51):
This because it's going to sound like I'm like a
mean barbarian.
Speaker 16 (24:54):
But I told the kids, I said, I'm not even
going to let you eat breakfast until you get your
chores done.
Speaker 15 (24:59):
You're the mother and she is the child. This is
not a relationship where you trust her. That's not your
job as a mother. In fact, your job as a
mother is to constantly be scrutinizing her to constantly be
judging her choices against principles.
Speaker 17 (25:20):
That's Ruby Frankie speaking on a podcast late last year
for Connections, a life coaching platform founded by her business
partner Jody Hildebrand.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Then you're hearing our forensic KUTV And the little girl
that wasn't having any food that day was six years old. Okay.
I was also struck when she refused to let some
of the children have Santa on Christmas morning. Take a
(25:50):
list now cut twenty eight.
Speaker 18 (25:52):
So we sat down with them and we let them
know how deeply sorrowful we've been because of the choices
that they've been making and how it's affected their teachers
at school, it's affected their peers, it's affected in our home, the.
Speaker 6 (26:08):
Siblings, and we just laid it out very clear.
Speaker 16 (26:11):
And we told them that this year they are not
going to be visited by Santa. We let them know
that Christmas morning, therefore, older siblings will be getting Christmas
presents to open and that they will have the gift
of love from their dad.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
And I, yeah, wonder why he left, But that said,
he didn't just leave her. He left his children to
starve in a hell hole. Ruby frank actually appears in
court and astonishingly blames her own children for their suffering,
(26:49):
even claiming that our children watch porn at age three
and that one child molested many other children sex molested them.
Let's start friends at crime online.
Speaker 17 (27:03):
Shocking stories continue to follow Ruby Frankie and Jody Hildebrant
as family members speak out and share their personal frustrations
with the women. But the most shocking thing so far
has to be from Ruby Frankie herself. The Daily Mail
reports that in court, Ruby Frankie sobbed as she appeared
for a shelter hearing for four minor children to determine custody.
(27:24):
Speaking between sobs, the mother of six claims that one
of her minor children sexually abused their sibling and molested
several other family members and children in the neighborhood for years.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I find that really difficult to believe, and I'm going
to go to our expert Brad Watts, who has written
Sibling Sex Abuse America's Silent Epidemic. If this has been
going on for years, it's very hard for me to
believe that a neighbor had not reported it. I would
be lying on the police HQ steps screaming for Joe
(28:00):
if a neighbor attacked one of my children, a neighbor child, Yeah,
I don't believe this for one minute, especially given the
other circumstances that the children are starved now with a
duct tape and have open source.
Speaker 7 (28:16):
Yeah, Nancy, Absolutely, there's all kinds of red flags that
just incongruent with everything in the home. Yeah, it doesn't
appear in any way that that would happen in my opinion,
just because to one of the red flags to be
is a three year old looking at porn. So she's
presenting it as her three year old child is seeking
(28:38):
out porn. Well, a three year old's is not able
to seek out porn on their own, they would come
across it or should it be shown to them. And
then just with the strict abusive nature in her home,
how is that happening And how is I agree with you,
how is a neighbor if he's doing it to all
these family members, all these different neighborhood kids. In my experience,
(29:00):
it's reported, it's talked about, it's brought up, and then
she's just keeping that, you know, to herself, and all that.
Speaker 9 (29:08):
I don't buy it.
Speaker 7 (29:08):
I just don't buy it at all.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
It doesn't make any sense to me. Heidi Nestel is
joining us on the Utah Crime Victim's Legal Clinic, And
all the years I have prosecuted and investigated child molestation,
I've never in my life heard of a three year
old going to the TV and finding porn and watching it.
That is a lie.
Speaker 11 (29:30):
Heidi, You're absolutely correct. I mean, as your panelist just said,
it either didn't happen, or the child was presented with
it or exposed to it by someone who is older
and can make those kind of searches. This just doesn't
make sense. I don't the legal argument to say, you know,
(29:50):
I'm absolved from responsibility or my responsibility is mitigated because
there was this sex abuse going into the home. That
doesn't make sense legally to me make that argument, because
as the parent, you have a legal and moral responsibility
to protect your children, and in Utah we have mandatory
(30:11):
report laws. So if this had been going on, the
parent is responsible at some level, and so it doesn't
make sense legally for her to be making this argument
if anything at aggravates the situation as opposed to mitigating
her liability.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Prime stories with Nancy Grace. I want you to hear
what happened when a school resource officer attempted to speak
to the children. Take a US an hour cut seventy six.
Speaker 12 (30:55):
A school resource officer attempting twice to talk to the
children wants unsuccessfully at school and again later at home
when he.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Asked to talk to them to the mom and the children,
they all went in the house, locked the doors, and
would not respond to any of our attempts for contact.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
It's very concerning when we hear that there were this
many people that sounded the alarm that there might have
been something happening at this home.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
So you're here from our friends at GMA, So I'm
not sure how this goes down. The school resource officer
says he tried to speak to them, but Ruby Frank
and her children all went in the home and just
locked the door. That the children went silent when he
tried to speak to them at school, So what they
just drop it? Just so okay, yeah, I can't talk
(31:43):
to them. Never mind, that's overcase closed. Also, the windows
are covered with paper, no one can get to them.
They're locked in the home and no parent is home.
But I find it really hard to believe. Throw this
to you, Jason Jensen, that the school resource officer just
(32:03):
dropped it because the mom wouldn't speak.
Speaker 9 (32:07):
It's pretty well not uncommon. I mean typically hear in
Utah when a resource officer or a police officer tries
to interview a child at the school, the child does
have that ability to refuse to speak to the officer
about something at home. Oftentimes is because the child is
(32:28):
instructed not to engage with any form of police officer
or something like that while it's school. So you would
think that that would pose a red flag for the investigator.
But I've read many of reports where that's actually occurred here,
but they.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Just let it go. Guys, I want you to hear
more of this mommy vlogger with millions of people taking
our advice, Ruby Frank you take a listen to our
cut ninety five.
Speaker 16 (32:57):
We are going to a movie on your shoes?
Speaker 9 (33:02):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
What does it even matter? If someone asked me if
I wanted to.
Speaker 15 (33:06):
Go to a movie, I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Ask what is it? Run and get your shoes or
you're gonna not go.
Speaker 16 (33:11):
Hurry everyone run, Hey, this is Ruby.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
I was wondering is Brooke available to babysit.
Speaker 10 (33:25):
Sorry, Oh my gosh, that sounds amazing.
Speaker 15 (33:31):
What a good idea for spring break.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I'm really sorry.
Speaker 16 (33:36):
I am not taking Eve unless you come and give
me a huge apology.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
It just hurts me to hear the little baby. I mean,
you can tell she's what would you say, Jackie four
or five? Maybe if that crying saying mommy, I'm sorry.
And now listen to this ninety.
Speaker 15 (33:56):
Six you can give me a hug and you come
say you're sorry.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
No again where I can pay attention.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
It was not very thankful of you.
Speaker 16 (34:05):
I was excited and I told you to go get
on your shoes and your jacket to see a movie
and you should say okay and be grateful instead.
Speaker 9 (34:15):
Of well what movie? Well I don't know, let.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Me think about it.
Speaker 16 (34:19):
That's not very grateful and I'm not going to take
a girl who's not grateful. Can you show some more gratitude?
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Okay, give me a big hick. I mean, is that
common to force your victim to apologize to you? Just
trying to figure that.
Speaker 7 (34:36):
Out, Brad Watts, No, I mean this is it's so
hard to listen to Nancy. I mean, just you know
that these children in the way she treats them, And
you know, I keep thinking that with my therapist eyes,
just this family and these kids and how much they
need to be in therapy and all that they're they're
going to have to work through. And again, kind of
going back to your point, you know, where's dad, you know,
(34:59):
fighting for these kids?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I think he needs to be behind bars too. He's responsible.
You can't just drive off and leave your children with
a demon from hell and then act like you had
no responsibility at all. So what she is brought into
court and by the way, isn't it true back to
Emily Ashcraft asl is that her or Hildebrandt that claim
(35:22):
that they have an ailment and they're on the sick
unit where they get better treatment.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
I think they've both had some medical issues since they've
been in jail, so I think both of them, but
most recently hildebrand apparently had some significant medical issues that
was filed in court documents. What issue it was vague
as to what those were.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I bet it was. Both of them amazingly get medical
issues when they go behind bars and they end up
in a much better position in the sick bay. Guys,
I want you to hear more of what Ruby frank did,
as if she hasn't victimized her children enough, take a
listen our cut eighty one our Forensic Crime online.
Speaker 17 (36:04):
After years of watching Ruby Frankie promote herself as an
expert at parenting, family members now feel it's time to
speak out and set the record straight. To that end,
Frankie's sister in law, Cynthia told The Daily Mail, quote,
I don't think she should get out on bail. I
do believe the allegations against her. After all of this,
she should be put away forever if convicted. Cynthia is
(36:25):
the wife of Frankie's older brother, Allan, and she said
she had no idea what was going on behind closed doors.
She said, quote, I don't know what to believe from her.
I think she's lying. She's putting the blame on her
two kids to validate what she did to her children.
At this point, I think she'll say anything to save herself.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
To Shelby asked her, joining us a forensic nurse examiner,
how often is it that you I see children victimized
while everybody stands by and twiddles their thumbs.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
Yeah, so you know, not men obviously with children, it
does take years and years for them to come forward
in regards to sexual assault. You know, that's because mostly
of fear. They are taught to believe that nobody's going
to believe them, nobody's going to listen, nobody cares.
Speaker 6 (37:19):
You know.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
As far as sibling sexual assault, it is one of
the least reported, so it is hard to establish and
understand the prevalence.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
But if that were happening, you know.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
The question that comes into play and that comes to
mind is, you know, if this is happening, where are
they learning this behavior from? You know, are they repeating
behavior that they've experienced. You know, often children do reenact
what they've experienced.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I'm very curious. Heidi Nestel is joining US executive director
you Taugh Crime Victims Legal Clinic, and you can find
her at Utah Victims Clinic. Heidi, I think it would
be a simple matter of getting the other children to testify,
especially the older daughter who was so worried about her
(38:11):
siblings she called police to go check on them. There's
a reason for that, You're.
Speaker 11 (38:17):
Right, and you can be assured that the children are
going to be interviewed. That's standard practice in criminal investigations
in Utah. We use a children's Justice center system where
I'm confident that each of the children will be interviewed
by a forensic interviewer and so hopefully we'll get now
(38:38):
they'll have the opportunity to talk about what's happened to them,
how they've been raised, and the different potentially abusive scenarios
that they've had to endure. So this investigation is going
to take a while, but assuredly these children will be
interviewed and have the opportunity to speak about what's happened
to them.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
If you know or think you know anything about the
mistreatment of the children of Ruby Frankie and the husband
Kevin Frankie, or any knowledge regarding Jody Hildebrandt, please call
better late than Never tipline two five one eight four
(39:20):
seven two two zero two repeat two five one eight
four seven two two zero two. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Greece, incredibly famous YouTuber, a mommy vlogger,
Ruby Frankie. Her family now says she should be quote
put away in jail forever. Really you're saying that? Now, well,
(00:30):
where were you when her children? And this is a
mommy vlagger that gives millions of people parenting advice. Where
were you Frankie family when she was duct taping her
children and starving them? Where were you when she was
keeping them hidden in the house? Now you want her
(00:54):
in jail? Daylight dollar short I Nancy Grace, this is
Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
Foxcination and Serious XM one eleven. This now notorious mommy vlogger.
He believes she is telling all of us how to
raise children. You know, I learned that police or defects
(01:20):
would go to the home and the children would actually hide.
They wouldn't speak to the teachers or the school detectives.
They tried to find out what was going And you
know what, shame on them, not the children, but the cops,
defects and school detectives who didn't follow up. When you
have a child that basically hides from you when you're
(01:42):
asking it a simple question. There's something horribly wrong, but
they just dropped the ball and it resulted in a
little boy, starved, bound with duct tape, sneaking out and
running to an neighbor's home to try to get something
(02:02):
to drink and eat. Yeah, and then when Ruby Frankie
ends up in court, guess what she does. I hope
you're sitting down. You may need to lay down for this.
She actually blames her children and said that at least
one of them started watching porn when he was three
years old, and that they're molesting each other. What oh,
(02:28):
did they starve themselves too and bind themselves with duct tape? Guys,
let's just start at the beginning with a nine to
one one call.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Listen, I just had a twelve year old boy show
up here at my front door asking for help. And
he's said he had just came from a neighbor's house,
and we know there's been problems at this neighbor's house.
He's emaciated, he's got tape around his legs, he's hungry,
and he's thirsty, sitting outside with him on the front patio,
(03:05):
and he asked us to call the police. So he's
very afraid.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
He's twelve years old, okay, And are the neighbors alex
of our home or is anybody looking for them that
you can see?
Speaker 2 (03:16):
No, we are homes are part enough away. I'm not sure.
How did you get out of the house, he says,
he just left through the porch at the neighbor's house.
Their name is Jody Hill. The brand I think Cana.
The houses are far apart, so he walked just under
(03:37):
the block to get to our house. He rang my
doorbell and asked me to call the police.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So it's my understanding with me. An incredible panel. But
first to Emily Ashcroft, reporter KSL dot com in Utah, Emily,
thank you for being with us. From what I'm deciphering
from the nine on one call, I'm sure we'll learn
exactly the answers to all of these questions is that
the little boy wanted them to call nine to one one.
(04:05):
He's twelve years old, and he's very afraid, emaciated and
bound with duct tape.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Yeah, that's what it sounds like. He tried to get out,
and that is a good strategy to go to a
neighbor's home and ask for emergency help in this situation.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
This kid must have been so afraid to run to
a neighbor's and beg them to call nine one one.
Let's listen to more than n im on one call
to find out what else we can learn.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
His ankles are taped up and he won't tell us why.
But he has duct taped around each ankle. Yeah, there's
sores around him. I think the good chance he's been.
Oh and he has been around his ankles. I mean
he's rists as well. Okay, this boy has been. This
(04:54):
kid has obviously been. I think he's been. He's been detained,
he's obviously covered in wounds.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Okay, let's get the paramedics headed over that way.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Okay, Oh that's a good idea too.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
See has he told you where his mom or dad are?
Speaker 2 (05:16):
Do you know where your mommy is?
Speaker 3 (05:18):
I really got well, actually I don't know where my
mom is, but I do know where my dad is.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
He's not here, don't know where Okay, no, he doesn't
see them. He usually knows.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
Where his mom is, he doesn't know where his dad is.
Speaker 1 (05:35):
So much to figure out right there, I want to
go to Shelley Asher. Listen to all these initials, B S,
N are in N why safe same dash Pe sex
assault forensic nurse examiner, I know that much. Forensic nurse
expert with Gay Joy Medical Forensics, extensive background and pediatric
(05:58):
physical and sex assault Shelby Asher, thank you for being
with us. Did you hear the male nine on one
call or break down in tears saying he's got duct
type around each ankle, around his wists and there's sores
around them. That means in my mind, he's been duct
(06:20):
taped for a long time and now there are sores.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
For me, Yeah, absolutely, Nancy, You know I wouldn't be
shocked it really. You know, there are some dependent factors depends,
like you said, how long they've been there, how tight
these were on his extremities. But yeah, generally i'd expect
to see, you know, some patterned injury, meaning ligature like
(06:44):
marks around in this case his anklden wrists. I definitely
expect to see abrasions lacerations due to you know, the
shearing of the skin in those areas.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
What do you mean by sharing of the skin, you know.
Speaker 5 (06:58):
The top layer kind of rubbing off like an abrasion,
just from that friction of having that bound his ankles
and rest.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
And just thinking about this little boy and his little
sister that was back in the home. Listen to more
of that nine one one you know where?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
He just says he doesn't live around here. Does your
mom around here? Have you seen her lately? He doesn't
know where she is right now? What's your mom's name? Ruby? Frankie?
Ruby Frankie is his mom's name? F R A M. Katie,
(07:35):
He says, he what's happened to him as his fault.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
God to hear they're coming to you as because they can. Okay, okay, yeah,
really want to make sure he's finding But I've got
him sitting here in my wife.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
He got water and something to give him, something to
eat because he's really he's hungry and a young man,
he said him his hearing his stocking feet, so he escaped.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Does he have anything with him?
Speaker 2 (08:06):
No, he's run a long sleeve shirt and shorts and
it's a way too big for him.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Can you tell me what color is that short?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
The ambulance is here joining me. Thank Goodness is a
forensic psychologist and consultant at psychology doctor dot com. Doctor
Dana Anderson, Doctor Dana, thank you so much for being
with us. It really struck me when you can hear
the little boy saying in the background, living separate, they're divorcing.
(08:37):
My dad is quote nowhere. He doesn't know where his
mom is. And even more striking, he says this is
He says, this is his fault. It's his fault that
he is starving with his bones poking out. It's his fault.
He's covered in wounds, and nobody's really telling us what
(09:00):
those wounds are. But I do know that there are
open sores associated with the duct tape on the wrists
and the ankles, and at one point I read across
his body, which I'm taking to mean the waist or
the chest. In some manner, I know those are our wounds.
(09:25):
Other accounts say open wounds. But he says it's all
his fault. Okay, you know what, if someone asks my
children right now, where is your mom? They would say
she's in the studio. I wouldn't have to tell them
(09:45):
where I am. They know where I am, and I
know where they are according to where I left them
this morning and according to Life three sixty, which I
monitor constantly. If someone asks my children, where's your dad
right now, they would say at his office. We know
where each other is supposed to be. So one he
(10:08):
doesn't know where his mom is, he doesn't know where
his dad is. He says dad is nowhere, and he
thinks all of this is his fault, his fault. You know.
It reminds me of batter women. So is their fault.
They're getting the hell beat out of them, sometimes the
life beat out of them. When I worked at the
Battered Women's Center, I remember when one woman got a
(10:31):
horrible beating that landed her in the hospital. Her husband
said he wanted Mexican for dinner. She made tacos and
he beat her because she made Enchilada's wait, he wanted tacos,
She made enchilada something like that, and she thought that
was her fault. So help me out here, doctor Dana.
Speaker 6 (10:48):
Yeah, it's just heartbreaking to share that ninety one one
call and just putting myself in his position. That boy,
you know wash just like you said, like battered woman's syndrome,
just that battered syndromes.
Speaker 7 (11:05):
Over and over.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
They're being led to believe that it's their fault, that
there's something wrong with them, that something that they're doing
that they need to stop. And that's why they're being abused,
and that that they have to rationalize the punishment. And
then this is what you often hear in victims who
have just been beaten down emotionally and psychologically. Over time,
(11:29):
they tried to cope and rationalize and make sense of it,
so confusing to your brain why this is happening? So
they can say, well, it's my fault if I wouldn't
have done that, if I could have done better, but
I did this.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Why do people do that? Why do they think it's them, like, Oh,
my husband, shady, that's my fault because I'm overweight and
that was not It's not your fault that he did that.
Speaker 6 (11:52):
If you isolate a victim for so long, and isolation
is what's happening in this case, and you only have
that authoritarians figure telling you, it's like brainwashing.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Okay, I got a theory, doctor, Diana. What about this?
You can't accept that the person you love so much
is a monster? Okay, here's an example. A friend told
me about an acquaintance that shot his dog with a
bb gun repeatedly, and the dog kept crawling toward the owner.
(12:30):
The dog. That's the only thing the dog knew. This
is who feeds me. This is where I sleep, this
is my I guess master. And even though the guy
was shooting him with a BB gun, the dog would
crawl toward the owner. And I've never understood that. And
when I'm thinking about this, how awful it must be
(12:53):
for a little child baby to accept the mom has
left me alone, the mom is starving me, the mom
bound me. I don't know where she is. I don't
know where my dad is. And so they blame themselves,
because sometimes that's easier to blame yourself than to accept
your whole world's falling apart. The one person you love
(13:15):
hates you.
Speaker 6 (13:15):
It's so terribly conflicting because this is also the mother,
the person that's supposed to be nurturing or has nurtured
you at times. This is the person that's supposed to
feed you and has before. They need that person they have.
They're reliant on them, as damies or children are on
their parents.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Poor kid, this whole world falling apart. Well, that little
boy says, my sisters still back in this home. So
the cops finally show up and do something. Instead of
looking in the window and see the children cowering and
do nothing, take a listen to our friends a Ku TV.
Speaker 8 (13:53):
The neighbor clearly moved to tears and.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
This boy has been. This kid is obviously I think
he's been. He's entertained, he's obviously covered in wounds.
Speaker 8 (14:10):
Once officers arrived, this is what they discovered inside Hildebrand's home.
Speaker 9 (14:15):
There's aside the garage downstairs underneath the grudges.
Speaker 8 (14:18):
Yeah, some of that audio you just heard is one
law enforcement appeared to be trying to find some of
the boys' siblings.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Okay, who is this person? Hilda Brant? So Emily askov
let me understand this. Jodie Hildebrant, we believe was a
marriage counselor to vlogger mom with over two million followers,
Ruby Frankie. She then became a friend, moved into the
(14:47):
Frankie home for a period of time, and then it
looks like became her co host on Connections, a kind
of an offshoot of Eight Passengers. Eight Passengers was Ruby
Frankie's show for lack of a Better World.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Yeah, yeah, so more recently, that's the YouTube channel that
they've been running, and they have an Instagram together called
Moms of Truth.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Oh Dear Lord in Heaven, Okay, I'll tell you what
I know about this friend. Co anchored Jesse Hilda Brant
speaks out. This is Jody Hildebrant's niece. I want you
guys to take a listen if you can stand it
to our cut seventy eight. This is Jody Hilda Brant,
the marriage counselor, describing what happened to her listen. I
(15:31):
was physically.
Speaker 10 (15:35):
I was forced to sleep outside in the snow. I was,
like I said, isolated from up to twelve hours a
day if someone wanted, if someone spoke to me directly,
if I wasn't wearing duct tape on my mouth, I
had to just stare at them and not respond. Because
she also had systems of people that would report back
(15:56):
to her if I broke any of these rules. And
her whole thing, which is deeply darkly ironic, is that
everything is stems from shame, and how horrible shame.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Is, and that.
Speaker 10 (16:12):
All of the reasons, like all of mental illness, all ticks,
so like ocd's addiction, everything stems from shame, which is
just horrifying because she is the greatest perpetuator of shame.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And this is who Ruby Frankie has with her children.
Also on our panel is executive director of Utah Crime
Victims Legal Clanet. It's a nonprofit who represents his victims.
Former County Prosecutor Heidi Nestle is with us. Heidi, thank
(16:49):
you so much for being with us. So the children
are starved, they are covered in open wounds, they are
duct taped at least at the risk and the angles
end quote across the body. The little boy says, dad's divorcing.
He's quote nowhere. I don't know where mommy is. And
(17:09):
they're in this home with this woman who's I guess
her theory is to shame people into a certain behavior.
What happened? I know there have been many calls to
this home. Why are the children still there?
Speaker 11 (17:24):
That's an excellent question. I mean, these are the most
serious physical charges, physical abuse charges that we have in Utah.
But they've been charged with and so it makes sense
that this did not just happen overnight. This abuse was
going on for a long time, and it does call
into question, you know, who saw what, especially as far
(17:48):
as Matt Hildegrand is concerned. The reason she's been charged
for the exact same crime is because in Utah we
have accomplished liability that if you aid or encourage someone
to commit a crime, that's as if you're committing the
crime yourself. And so it's appropriate that she's been charged
and likely will be held accountable for these atrocious crime.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
You know, Jason Jensen is with me. I agree with
everything Heidi Nestell just said. Jason Jensen Jensen private investigator, owner,
Jensen Private Investigations, co founder of the Cold Case Coalition,
and you can find him at Jensenprivate Investigations dot com.
Don't you see a similar transaction happening. You've got the
(18:34):
adult niece of Jodah Hildebrandt saying I wasn't allowed to
speak to anybody, had duct tape on my mouth, and
now we see these children bound in duct tape? What
about that? Jason Jensen, I'm not surprised. When can you
sound so calm? I'm just curious. I'm not surprised. I'm
surprised as hell, and I see it every day. But
(18:55):
the hypocrisy of this woman being a we've logged to look.
I do the best I can with the children I do,
and I know I'm not an expert, and it would
be a cold ay in Hgublel. But I try to
give parenting advice. I want people to give me parenting advice,
and her children are duct taped, they're starved. Jason Jensen, Well, yeah,
(19:17):
I'm shocked. Where's the outrage?
Speaker 9 (19:20):
Probably because I'm not gonna disrupt your show by personally
being emotional about it.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
But what makes me so better about you? You're trying
to save crime stories.
Speaker 7 (19:31):
Okay, go ahead, exactly.
Speaker 9 (19:32):
So basically, the reason why I say I'm not surprised
is this came out of somewhere in her path. It
wasn't just something they invented. So clearly this is something
that she's been cultivating and using in her path. I
guess therapy sessions, which clearly is you know, in my definition,
(19:53):
cruel and unusual for what she's using against her own
family members alone. You know, the Frankie family, What you
put these kids through is cruel, It is torturous, and
it is criminal, So it's going to be hard for
them to justify. And then you know, for what Ruby
(20:15):
Frankie tried to raise in her hearing as the excuse
for is abhorrent.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, you're not gonna believe
what you're gonna hear next. It's not just Ruby Frankie,
It's not just Jadie Hildebrant. The system how to hand
in this. Brad Wats is joining me. Listen to this.
Brad Our Cut sixty sixty one from KSL.
Speaker 12 (20:51):
Records reveal officers responded to Frankie's home in Springville fifteen
times between March twenty nineteen and last week. In April
twenty two, records showed DCFS asked Springville PD to drive
through the neighborhood. In September last year, Frankie's oldest daughter
asked police to check on her younger siblings after hearing
(21:11):
from neighbors that Frankie had left them home alone in.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Springville for days.
Speaker 12 (21:16):
According to police records, the kids were seen through the
windows but would not answer the door, but neighbors told
officers Ruby Frankie would leave her children home for extended
periods of time and go to Saint George to spend
time with her friend, Jody. Hildebrandt's records show police went
back to the Springville home four more times after that
to assist DCFS.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
But nothing was done, and when school members tried to
speak to them. Nothing was done, nothing at all, so
the children continued to starve and be bound. That's not all.
Take a listen to our friends at KSL. This is
Shelby Lofton.
Speaker 13 (21:56):
Neighbors told me everyone noticed the Frankie's windows being covered
in paper earlier this year. We drove by the Frankie's
house today. No one looked like they were home, but
the front door, which looks like it's cracked, is covered
in several strips of black tape. Neighbors told us Kevin Frankie,
Ruby's husband moved out of the family home about one
(22:17):
year ago. Kevin Frankie is now back at that address.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
So Brad Watts, licensed professional counselor, certified sex Offender Treatment provider,
specializes in sibling sex abuse and I want to talk
to you about Reby Frankie's clients as all our children's
thought that they're abusing each other. He's the author of
Sibling Sex Abuse, America's Silent Epidemic and you can find
(22:41):
me at Brad Watts LPC dot com. Brad, what do
you make of the fact that police didn't help defects
didn't help the school detective and counselors. They didn't help.
All they were and the neighbors, they all noticed, they
all knew something was wrong, but they did nothing.
Speaker 7 (23:01):
Nancy, this is just mind blowing. I mean, one of
the first things that popped out to me is the
fact that they didn't do their due diligence on anything.
It's a complete failure. And I would think just anybody
kind of around or familiar you make those calls and
then you go in and investigate in the home, and
the fact that all these different opportunities that they drop
(23:22):
the ball on this is just just really horrific. And
you know, we see the results with the kids. I
can't help but wonder, with all these different calls, all
these different people, you know, you know, seeing red flags
from the family, why in the world this wasn't investigated.
So I'd really be interested to hear what their excuses
for this.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Is, denying the children's food and care, leaving them alone
for days. If this woman wasn't famous, you don't think
she would have been arrested by now. All you have
to do is listen to her on her eight passengers
are now the new connections with our hitch person, Joey Hildebrant,
(24:05):
take a listen to Really Frank on eight Passengers.
Speaker 14 (24:08):
I just got a text message from Eve's teacher and
she said that Eve did not pack a lunch today
and can I bring a lunch over to the school.
This happens quite often when you're having raising children, because
I know that her teacher is uncomfortable with her being
hungry and not having a lunch, and it would ease
(24:29):
her discomfort if I came to the school with lunch.
But I responded and just said Eve is responsible for
making her lunches in the morning, and she actually told
me she did pack a lunch. So the natural outcome
is she's just going to need to be hungry and
hopefully nobody gives her food, and nobody steps in and
gives her a lunch, and my.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Kids are literally starving. I hesitate to say.
Speaker 15 (24:51):
This because it's going to sound like I'm like a
mean barbarian.
Speaker 16 (24:54):
But I told the kids, I said, I'm not even
going to let you eat breakfast until you get your
chores done.
Speaker 15 (24:59):
You're the mother and she is the child. This is
not a relationship where you trust her. That's not your
job as a mother. In fact, your job as a
mother is to constantly be scrutinizing her to constantly be
judging her choices against principles.
Speaker 17 (25:20):
That's Ruby Frankie speaking on a podcast late last year
for Connections, a life coaching platform founded by her business
partner Jody Hildebrand.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Then you're hearing our forensic KUTV And the little girl
that wasn't having any food that day was six years old. Okay.
I was also struck when she refused to let some
of the children have Santa on Christmas morning. Take a
(25:50):
list now cut twenty eight.
Speaker 18 (25:52):
So we sat down with them and we let them
know how deeply sorrowful we've been because of the choices
that they've been making and how it's affected their teachers
at school, it's affected their peers, it's affected in our home, the.
Speaker 6 (26:08):
Siblings, and we just laid it out very clear.
Speaker 16 (26:11):
And we told them that this year they are not
going to be visited by Santa. We let them know
that Christmas morning, therefore, older siblings will be getting Christmas
presents to open and that they will have the gift
of love from their dad.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
And I, yeah, wonder why he left, But that said,
he didn't just leave her. He left his children to
starve in a hell hole. Ruby frank actually appears in
court and astonishingly blames her own children for their suffering,
(26:49):
even claiming that our children watch porn at age three
and that one child molested many other children sex molested them.
Let's start friends at crime online.
Speaker 17 (27:03):
Shocking stories continue to follow Ruby Frankie and Jody Hildebrant
as family members speak out and share their personal frustrations
with the women. But the most shocking thing so far
has to be from Ruby Frankie herself. The Daily Mail
reports that in court, Ruby Frankie sobbed as she appeared
for a shelter hearing for four minor children to determine custody.
(27:24):
Speaking between sobs, the mother of six claims that one
of her minor children sexually abused their sibling and molested
several other family members and children in the neighborhood for years.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
I find that really difficult to believe, and I'm going
to go to our expert Brad Watts, who has written
Sibling Sex Abuse America's Silent Epidemic. If this has been
going on for years, it's very hard for me to
believe that a neighbor had not reported it. I would
be lying on the police HQ steps screaming for Joe
(28:00):
if a neighbor attacked one of my children, a neighbor child, Yeah,
I don't believe this for one minute, especially given the
other circumstances that the children are starved now with a
duct tape and have open source.
Speaker 7 (28:16):
Yeah, Nancy, Absolutely, there's all kinds of red flags that
just incongruent with everything in the home. Yeah, it doesn't
appear in any way that that would happen in my opinion,
just because to one of the red flags to be
is a three year old looking at porn. So she's
presenting it as her three year old child is seeking
(28:38):
out porn. Well, a three year old's is not able
to seek out porn on their own, they would come
across it or should it be shown to them. And
then just with the strict abusive nature in her home,
how is that happening And how is I agree with you,
how is a neighbor if he's doing it to all
these family members, all these different neighborhood kids. In my experience,
(29:00):
it's reported, it's talked about, it's brought up, and then
she's just keeping that, you know, to herself, and all that.
Speaker 9 (29:08):
I don't buy it.
Speaker 7 (29:08):
I just don't buy it at all.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
It doesn't make any sense to me. Heidi Nestel is
joining us on the Utah Crime Victim's Legal Clinic, And
all the years I have prosecuted and investigated child molestation,
I've never in my life heard of a three year
old going to the TV and finding porn and watching it.
That is a lie.
Speaker 11 (29:30):
Heidi, You're absolutely correct. I mean, as your panelist just said,
it either didn't happen, or the child was presented with
it or exposed to it by someone who is older
and can make those kind of searches. This just doesn't
make sense. I don't the legal argument to say, you know,
(29:50):
I'm absolved from responsibility or my responsibility is mitigated because
there was this sex abuse going into the home. That
doesn't make sense legally to me make that argument, because
as the parent, you have a legal and moral responsibility
to protect your children, and in Utah we have mandatory
(30:11):
report laws. So if this had been going on, the
parent is responsible at some level, and so it doesn't
make sense legally for her to be making this argument
if anything at aggravates the situation as opposed to mitigating
her liability.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Prime stories with Nancy Grace. I want you to hear
what happened when a school resource officer attempted to speak
to the children. Take a US an hour cut seventy six.
Speaker 12 (30:55):
A school resource officer attempting twice to talk to the
children wants unsuccessfully at school and again later at home
when he.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
Asked to talk to them to the mom and the children,
they all went in the house, locked the doors, and
would not respond to any of our attempts for contact.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
It's very concerning when we hear that there were this
many people that sounded the alarm that there might have
been something happening at this home.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
So you're here from our friends at GMA, So I'm
not sure how this goes down. The school resource officer
says he tried to speak to them, but Ruby Frank
and her children all went in the home and just
locked the door. That the children went silent when he
tried to speak to them at school, So what they
just drop it? Just so okay, yeah, I can't talk
(31:43):
to them. Never mind, that's overcase closed. Also, the windows
are covered with paper, no one can get to them.
They're locked in the home and no parent is home.
But I find it really hard to believe. Throw this
to you, Jason Jensen, that the school resource officer just
(32:03):
dropped it because the mom wouldn't speak.
Speaker 9 (32:07):
It's pretty well not uncommon. I mean typically hear in
Utah when a resource officer or a police officer tries
to interview a child at the school, the child does
have that ability to refuse to speak to the officer
about something at home. Oftentimes is because the child is
(32:28):
instructed not to engage with any form of police officer
or something like that while it's school. So you would
think that that would pose a red flag for the investigator.
But I've read many of reports where that's actually occurred here,
but they.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Just let it go. Guys, I want you to hear
more of this mommy vlogger with millions of people taking
our advice, Ruby Frank you take a listen to our
cut ninety five.
Speaker 16 (32:57):
We are going to a movie on your shoes?
Speaker 9 (33:02):
What is it?
Speaker 1 (33:03):
What does it even matter? If someone asked me if
I wanted to.
Speaker 15 (33:06):
Go to a movie, I wouldn't.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Ask what is it? Run and get your shoes or
you're gonna not go.
Speaker 16 (33:11):
Hurry everyone run, Hey, this is Ruby.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
I was wondering is Brooke available to babysit.
Speaker 10 (33:25):
Sorry, Oh my gosh, that sounds amazing.
Speaker 15 (33:31):
What a good idea for spring break.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
I'm really sorry.
Speaker 16 (33:36):
I am not taking Eve unless you come and give
me a huge apology.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
It just hurts me to hear the little baby. I mean,
you can tell she's what would you say, Jackie four
or five? Maybe if that crying saying mommy, I'm sorry.
And now listen to this ninety.
Speaker 15 (33:56):
Six you can give me a hug and you come
say you're sorry.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
No again where I can pay attention.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
It was not very thankful of you.
Speaker 16 (34:05):
I was excited and I told you to go get
on your shoes and your jacket to see a movie
and you should say okay and be grateful instead.
Speaker 9 (34:15):
Of well what movie? Well I don't know, let.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Me think about it.
Speaker 16 (34:19):
That's not very grateful and I'm not going to take
a girl who's not grateful. Can you show some more gratitude?
Speaker 1 (34:25):
Okay, give me a big hick. I mean, is that
common to force your victim to apologize to you? Just
trying to figure that.
Speaker 7 (34:36):
Out, Brad Watts, No, I mean this is it's so
hard to listen to Nancy. I mean, just you know
that these children in the way she treats them, And
you know, I keep thinking that with my therapist eyes,
just this family and these kids and how much they
need to be in therapy and all that they're they're
going to have to work through. And again, kind of
going back to your point, you know, where's dad, you know,
(34:59):
fighting for these kids?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
I think he needs to be behind bars too. He's responsible.
You can't just drive off and leave your children with
a demon from hell and then act like you had
no responsibility at all. So what she is brought into
court and by the way, isn't it true back to
Emily Ashcraft asl is that her or Hildebrandt that claim
(35:22):
that they have an ailment and they're on the sick
unit where they get better treatment.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
I think they've both had some medical issues since they've
been in jail, so I think both of them, but
most recently hildebrand apparently had some significant medical issues that
was filed in court documents. What issue it was vague
as to what those were.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
I bet it was. Both of them amazingly get medical
issues when they go behind bars and they end up
in a much better position in the sick bay. Guys,
I want you to hear more of what Ruby frank did,
as if she hasn't victimized her children enough, take a
listen our cut eighty one our Forensic Crime online.
Speaker 17 (36:04):
After years of watching Ruby Frankie promote herself as an
expert at parenting, family members now feel it's time to
speak out and set the record straight. To that end,
Frankie's sister in law, Cynthia told The Daily Mail, quote,
I don't think she should get out on bail. I
do believe the allegations against her. After all of this,
she should be put away forever if convicted. Cynthia is
(36:25):
the wife of Frankie's older brother, Allan, and she said
she had no idea what was going on behind closed doors.
She said, quote, I don't know what to believe from her.
I think she's lying. She's putting the blame on her
two kids to validate what she did to her children.
At this point, I think she'll say anything to save herself.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
To Shelby asked her, joining us a forensic nurse examiner,
how often is it that you I see children victimized
while everybody stands by and twiddles their thumbs.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
Yeah, so you know, not men obviously with children, it
does take years and years for them to come forward
in regards to sexual assault. You know, that's because mostly
of fear. They are taught to believe that nobody's going
to believe them, nobody's going to listen, nobody cares.
Speaker 6 (37:19):
You know.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
As far as sibling sexual assault, it is one of
the least reported, so it is hard to establish and
understand the prevalence.
Speaker 6 (37:29):
But if that were happening, you know.
Speaker 5 (37:31):
The question that comes into play and that comes to
mind is, you know, if this is happening, where are
they learning this behavior from? You know, are they repeating
behavior that they've experienced. You know, often children do reenact
what they've experienced.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
I'm very curious. Heidi Nestel is joining US executive director
you Taugh Crime Victims Legal Clinic, and you can find
her at Utah Victims Clinic. Heidi, I think it would
be a simple matter of getting the other children to testify,
especially the older daughter who was so worried about her
(38:11):
siblings she called police to go check on them. There's
a reason for that, You're.
Speaker 11 (38:17):
Right, and you can be assured that the children are
going to be interviewed. That's standard practice in criminal investigations
in Utah. We use a children's Justice center system where
I'm confident that each of the children will be interviewed
by a forensic interviewer and so hopefully we'll get now
(38:38):
they'll have the opportunity to talk about what's happened to them,
how they've been raised, and the different potentially abusive scenarios
that they've had to endure. So this investigation is going
to take a while, but assuredly these children will be
interviewed and have the opportunity to speak about what's happened
to them.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
If you know or think you know anything about the
mistreatment of the children of Ruby Frankie and the husband
Kevin Frankie, or any knowledge regarding Jody Hildebrandt, please call
better late than Never tipline two five one eight four
(39:20):
seven two two zero two repeat two five one eight
four seven two two zero two. We wait as justice unfolds. Goodbye, friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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