May 4, 2021 • 32 mins
David Lamar was known for walking about Manhattan with his diamond-studded walking stick, for being brash and cutthroat in his dealings, and went on to become a legend for his financial scams as well as impersonating powerful and influential people.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shonda Land Audio in
partnership with I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the
third season of Criminalia. This season, we're exploring the lives
and motivations of some of the most notorious impostors throughout history.
(00:23):
Today we're talking about the original and legendary Wolf of
Wall Street. I'm Maria Tremarki and I'm Holly Fry. And
you may think you know who. The Wolf of Wall
Street was based on Martin Scorsese's movie, which was appropriately
named The Wolf of wall Street. Right, that is a
person named Jordan Belford, and that movie was based on
(00:44):
Jordan's book where he described his debaucherous rise as a
New York stockbroker right up to his very corrupted, messy fault. Yeah,
so Jordan's rise. At his peak, he bought mansions. He
bought cars for those car people out there, especially from
the eighties. He had two superstars, the Lamborghini Kuntosh and
(01:04):
the Ferrari Tester Rosa. He bought a helicopter which he crashed.
He bought a yacht which he sank. And as a
side note to that yacht, he bought it from cocosan. Now,
he took a lot, a lot which explains a lot
of his behavior. He took a lot of coludes. He
said that he modeled himself after his on screen hero,
(01:24):
Gordon Gecko, who was the ruthless corporate raider played by
Michael Douglas in the eighties movie Wall Street. Ultimately, Jordan
was arrested that was in and he pled guilty to
fraud and various crimes associated with defrauding investors out of
more than two hundred million dollars. And because he was
willing to cooperate with the FBI and give testimony against
(01:46):
his partners and subordinates in this whole thing, his sentence
was lightened. He only spent twenty two months in prison,
and it was during his prison time when he began
writing his book, his memoirs, which he called the Wolf
of Wall Street. That's a road name. We're going to
talk about that in the second need. He did steal
something in years after Jordan had served his time, Martin
(02:09):
Scor says, he's movie was released, it wouldn't be wrong
to call Jordan's the Wolf of Wall Street because he
certainly sounds as though he could be the wolf of
Wall Street. But it turns out though that Jordan's just
a Wolf of Wall Street. He's not the first, and
of all things he did, he actually never impersonated anyone.
(02:30):
Enter the real topic of today's conversation, David Lamar. David
Lamar is the original Wolf of Wall Street, not Jordan Belfort.
Although comedically enough, they do have something in common despite
that it's in their name. Neither of these men actually
ever really worked on Wall Street. It's just coincidence. Bryan,
(02:52):
So um, it is a little bit early, But we're
going to stop now for a break for a word
from our sponsor, so that when we come back, will
introduce David Lamar. Welcome back to criminal LYA. Do you
(03:13):
know how to short stock? This has been in the
news in recent times. Everyone's trying to figure it out. Well,
David Lamar, sha knew how to do it. Yes, So
David David was born in or around seventy seven, we
don't know the exact date. He went on to become
a legend for his financial scams as well as his
(03:34):
impersonation of a member of Congress and various other people.
Let's just say for right now, he was known for
walking about New York City with his diamond studied walking
stick for his horses, and also for being brash and
cutthroat in his dealings. So he was actually born David Levy.
(03:55):
We know that because he had a brother, Henry, who
would sign his last name Levy, and that how people
put it together. But David later told people that he
changed his last name to Lamar to match that of
a noted Mississippi senator in order to help facilitate his
business dealings. And Holly just said facilitate with quotation marks
around him. Yeah, that person he's referencing would presumably be
(04:19):
a man named Lucius Quintus Cincinnatis Lamar. And in the
eighteen seventies and eighteen eighties that Lamar served as both
a member of the U. S. House of Representatives and
then the U. S. Senate, and then he became Secretary
of the Interior and eventually an Associate Justice of the
Supreme Court. But here's the thing. L QC. Lamar's legacy
(04:40):
is one that is deeply rooted in racism. It is
extraordinarily ugly, and he had a lot of very active
rhetoric around white supremacy. So really not a great choice
for someone to associate yourself with via a name change.
It was not actually the only name that he would use, though,
David at Lamar also went by David Lewis, particularly during
(05:04):
a stretch of time he spent in Omaha, Nebraska, and
at one point JP Morgan smartly had become suspicious of
Lamar and his financial doings, and he put two and
you together, and he figured out that these were very
likely the very same man. So Morrigan actually paid to
have a judge from Omaha who had had dealings with
(05:26):
David Lewis fly to New York to identify David Lamar
as being the same man. And as you probably expected,
he was. And many sources say that David pretended to
be the heir of a wealthy Georgia family that allowed
him not only to live very extravagantly, but also gave
him better access to politicians and financial heavyweights. Some sources
(05:49):
also suggest that around people with money, David pretended to
be a legitimate businessman. He was charged with bribery in
in Virginia after what he got involved with, which the
press called quote electric franchise fight. Presumably he was trying
to help monopolize the delivery of electricity to people. He
(06:10):
went on to pose as a New York businessman while
he was in Mobile, Alabama. I mean, the list goes
on and on and on. It's actually kind of tricky
if you look back partically at his obituaries that came
out when he died, all of the newspapers are just
like lists of weird things that he was involved in,
and like his rap sheet, and it's actually so thick
it's you can see that they were even having trouble
(06:32):
keeping it all straight. It's hard to track the timeline
with the name and the associated event. Because he was mobile,
he was in a lot of places, and you can
see he managed to get into a lot of scrapes.
But he was very driven and even after any of
these scrapes, he always continued simply moving on from one
(06:54):
ruse to the next because he he had big imagination
um and knew a lot of people. Uh So, David
was the type of fraudster who would do whatever it
took to close a deal and make some money. And
early and really significant score for him was when he
fleeced the Rockefeller's in by manipulating George Rogers, who was
(07:17):
the secretary to Standard Oil founder John D. Rockefeller Senior.
David convinced the junior Rockefeller to buy stock in US Leather.
Rockefeller did buy that stock, and then David did short it.
Rockefeller Junior lost about a million dollars of his father's money. Okay,
so we told you we would talk about shorting. If
(07:38):
you do not know what shorting is, here is the
quick and dirty version because this will come up again,
and also it's just good life information to have. Shorting stock,
also called short selling, is when an investor borrows shares
and then immediately sells them with the intention of buying
them back later at a lower price. This is a
trading technique for people who are willing to take substantial
(08:01):
risk of capital laws, at least potentially substantial risk and lass.
It's also a trading technique that can make someone like
Jordan who we mentioned earlier, or David Lamar a lot
of pocket change. Yeah, he's gonna need a lot of
pockets right now. So much of David's story actually revolves
(08:21):
around following his arrest record, So we're moving ahead a
few years to a really great example of how ruthless
and cutthroat he could be, as well as his air
of feeling sort of above the laws he was doing things.
So in July, David's coachman was a man named James McMahon,
(08:42):
and he was supposed to appear in court to testify
against David Lamar on an assault charge. But unfortunately McMahon
was stabbed and beaten before he was able to enter
the courthouse, and because of this he was unable to testify.
David's brother in law and two of David's plays were
arrested and subsequently charged with having been involved in the
(09:04):
attack on McMahon. So now we're going to move on
the timeline to and that was an extraordinarily busy year
for Lamar. And during one scandal, a reporter actually asked
Lamar about his name change and his involvement in various
nefarious business dealings, and David replied, quote, I'm sorry, I've
never given an interview and I can't start now on
(09:26):
a personal matter. As for the matter of my change
in name, well, the Senate records show I declined to
tell the right one because it would make the innocent suffer.
Perhaps we really have no idea what he was getting
at with that, none whatsoever. I my personal suspicion is
that he was just trying to continue to cultivate his
air of mystery. I agree to, especially the addition of perhaps.
(09:52):
But it's here in nineteen thirteen when David begins to
impersonate some real big fish for power and financial gain.
Say you want an drive down steel prices in an
effort to short the stock and make huge amounts of
money for yourself. If you're David, you settle on a
plan to defraud the US Steel Corporation as well as
JP Morgan and Company, which pretty much dominated the corporate
(10:15):
finance world on Wall Street at the time. So to
do this, he figured he would pretend to be a
member of Congress. And he really did just do exactly that. Yes,
Like he woke up one day, I know this will work. Uh.
His target to impersonate was Pennsylvania Representative Alexander Mitchell Palmer,
(10:38):
who was a lawyer and a politician, and David faked
this persona in telephone interviews, and he even attempted but
failed to deliver a floor speech to persuade Congress to
his proposal. Sometimes your schemes, though, do not go as planned.
In this instance, while no one could see him over
the phone, and that seemed to work. He could not
(10:58):
mask his face in front of all those gersman who
actually knew Alexander Mitchell Palmer. That would actually been really
impressive on his impersonate, like the way that he was
imperson in people. And now he's like, now I covered
my face and face job it becomes Harry mission impossible
with the very much right, so Palmer. Actually, Palmer served
(11:19):
in Congress from nineteen and nine to nineteen fifteen, although
you probably actually know him better as the U. S.
Attorney General under President Wilson Woodrow Wilson. By nineteen twenty,
Palmer had his eye on the White House, and so
if you're not really familiar with his name, you may
be familiar with one of the things he's most famous
(11:40):
for doing, which were the Palmer Raids, conducted by the U. S.
Department of Justice between nineteen nineteen and January nine. The
raids kicked off what became known as the Red Summer,
and this was all led by Palmer, but it was
executed by a young j Edgar Hoover. This campaign targeted
(12:00):
people who were alleged communists anarchists, focused on people of
certain countries Russians were targeted, but basically any people who
were suspected of far left extremism were targets, and in
the end, about four thousand people were arrested and about
eight hundred were deported. Yeah, that whole thing started because
(12:20):
there was a bombing attack on Palmer, but then he
parlayed that into I am going after anyone I don't like,
particularly anyone for him, Like he just went mad with
his quest on that. It was kind of a weird
little story, you know, like somebody tried to bomb his house,
that messed up and blew themselves up, and the Roosevelts
(12:42):
looked across the street and they were afraid. So all
of this kind of played into what became this terrible year. Yeah,
they treated people absolutely horribly. David Lamar, not surprisingly, did
not get away with impersonating the Palmer, even though this
was several years price or when Palmer really would have
been in the every single paper in the United States,
(13:04):
though he was already a prominent politician, and David was
subsequently arrested at his apartment at the Hotel Laurelton, which
was in Manhattan's Midtown neighborhood. So to set the wealth scene. Here.
Let's say, if you're not familiar with New York City,
this is a neighborhood today where you'll find the Empire,
State Building, the christ they're building Times Square. I can
(13:26):
just keep listing them. There are many more attractions. But
back at the turn of the twentieth century, Midtown was
kind of a stagnant, almost commercial neighborhood. When David moved
in there though, it was undergoing a huge transformation and
moneyed families were turning the neighborhood into this bustling business district.
(13:47):
And that's when the big towers were created, the Prysler
Building was built, and it was all on par with
Wall Street when it came to power. Yeah, if you
look at the history of New York City, it's very
fascinating how initially the population was all clustered at the
south end of the island and it just slowly spread
up and up and up and up northward. Um, that's
(14:07):
a whole other story. It's a whole another show. In
a Senate committee hearing on this whole matter, Lamar, calmly
and perhaps amazingly, just confessed to impersonating people all the time.
A big deal. He would be like a picture of
nonchalance about it, and joked about it, like, oh yeah,
you got me. I'm impersonated people. It's hilarious, Like you
(14:30):
don't do that too. One press write up noted quote,
never before had the national lawmakers listened to such brazen
effrontery and acknowledgement of chicanery as came from the lips
of the Wolf of Wall Street on that occasion. His
own confessions clearly proved that his character was a dash
of Baron, Munchausen and Anius and a trace of Cagliostro.
(14:55):
I love that. That's a good description. It's a great
description that just apeared in the newspaper, like it has
a great description of him. So David was charged for
his attempt at impersonating a member of Congress, and on
December three, he appeared in the Federal District Court before
he had judged sessions, and after just about forty five minutes,
(15:17):
the jury found him guilty of impersonating by telephone representative
Alexander Mitchell Palmer with the intention of defrauding two major
corporate players. He was convicted on two counts of the
second of three indictments against him and his council planned
to appeal, and the court granted his counsel a writ
of error that meant a stay of execution of the
(15:40):
sentence pending the result of that appeal. And if that
just sounds like a lot of legal language in mumbo jumbo,
because kind of is. What it boils down to, is
that the court temporarily suspended David's sentence while his lawyers
prepared to challenge the case's outcome. And we did look
that up, of course as well. David did go on
to serve two years in Atlanta pen a tentury in Atlanta, Georgia.
(16:02):
We're going to take a quick break for a word
from our sponsor, but when we're back, we'll talk about
the sunset of david sordid occupation. Welcome back to Criminalia. Okay,
let's kick things off with David conspiring with a German
(16:24):
spy surprises no one. So over the years, the type
of David's engagements kind of changed a bit, although his
end goal was still, of course, power and money. So
fresh out of prison in nineteen fifteen, he acted as
an agent for Captain Franz von Rintelin, who was a
German naval intelligence officer which you could also call him
(16:48):
a German spy in the United States during World War One.
Much later, while giving a speech, the Captain joke amid
the audience is laughter that a secret service agent is
a spy. He is on the other side, but an
intelligence officer if working for you. He also admitted he
had lived in New York under five aliases, but that
(17:09):
was just about all he ever divulged of his intelligence
slash spy work. He was always pretty tight lipped about
what exactly he did and how exactly he did it.
Von Brintlin spoke on occasion about how the war would
not be decided in Europe. He believed rather that it
would be in the United States. So he struck a
plan to conduct a campaign of propaganda to improve relations
(17:32):
between the United States and Germany, and it would also,
he hoped, create a pro German sentiment in the US.
There was actually a second piece to this plan as well.
You know. So this was war and he also wanted
to curtail the commercial power in other countries and in
particular Great Britain. To do that, he wanted to prevent
(17:53):
munition manufacturing and shipments, and that meant strikes in American
munitions factories. This was important to the war effort, of course,
because munitions factories were making military weapons and equipment that
we're in high demands. Working together, Von Rintlin and David
Lamar as David Lamar this time concocted a plan to
(18:14):
pressure American munitions factories and shipping agencies to strike. They
figured out that they could do this by taking aim
at financial institutions and business organizations. And because of his
talent for manipulating people, as well as his obvious total
disregard for ethics and morals, David was considered the brains
behind this campaign. Von Rinteln gave him somewhere between three
(18:38):
hundred thousand to five hundred thousand dollars at the reports
on just how much vary. It's all big numbers, uh.
And this was given to David to implement the plan. Yeah.
You know, when you're doing spy work, you don't really
like broadcast your receipts on people speak your David Lamar
(19:00):
was not signing a received three dollars with a copy
right for this little carbon book. This whole thing, though,
despite all the money involved and promises of what would
be done with it, did not go as planned, and
that is because of David. Remember he was not any
kind of expert in such matters. He was an opportunistic poser.
(19:25):
David's reports on the campaign's success, when he reported von Riddlen,
we're all faked and they were always exaggerated, he was
basically like, yes, boss, everything is according to plan. Where
it was not until later that von Rentalin realized that
David had swindled him out of a large amount of
money and didn't deliver any results. And we should point
(19:48):
out this really doesn't reflect well on von Rentalin's intelligence
at all, Like, yeah, surely he should have spotted a collaborator,
but David somehow convinced him that he would be a
great partner in such a move. Why not, I's got
a lot of risk in and here's five thousand dollars um.
(20:11):
So it actually wasn't after he was swindled. It wasn't
bon Vinoline or any other man involved in the plan
as far as we can tell, who actually tipped off
the authorities. But David was yet again arrested. This time
he was convicted of conspiring with Germans and interfering with
munitions shipments, which technically yes, um he testified on his
(20:34):
own behalf that indeed he had engaged in the anti
munitions scam. David also gave up the captain and claimed
that the campaign was done at the request of actually
another man, someone named the Reverend doctor Thomas C. Hill,
who had also been a professor of Christian ethics at
Union Theological Seminary. Hill only comes up in the men's testimony.
(20:56):
Actually he remains a bit of a mystery to both
of us. Another man who was implicated in this plan
was Henry B. Martin, and he, like David, took the stand.
While he denied he knew that the money came from
a German source, he did admit that he accepted large
amounts of money from David, which he spent on the
behalf of the Labors National Peace Council as well as
(21:19):
promoting and distributing pro German propaganda to Americans. All of
the Labors National Peace Council really does sound like a
very official group. It actually wasn't at all. It was
a reputable organization, it was just one that David formed
all as part of this larger plan. So also taking
the stand that day was George Plockman, who was treasurer
(21:41):
of the Transatlantic Trust Company. He testified against von Riddlin, David,
a former congressman, and five associates for the Labors National
Peace Council. Other prominent businessmen and former politicians all denied
that they knew about any of this, and they definitely
or so claimed did not know that the Labor's National
(22:02):
Peace Council was backed by a German spy. The Sherman
Act passed in eight nine as a way to prosecute
violations that would include things like price fixing, market allocation,
and interfering with trade with the intent of lowering economic
competition for your personal gain. And if that doesn't sound
like David Lamar to you, yeah it does to us.
(22:25):
So the charge was conspiracy to instigate strikes, and the
men were all found guilty. David, Ron Ridlin, and Martin
were all sentenced to one year in jail. Yeah, it
kind of sounds like David Lamar read the Sherman Act
as like a job description, right, He's like, I could
do all these things, check in check. It should surprise
(22:47):
no one that after losing a scheme this big David
initially tried to run. According to the Evening Star of Washington,
d C quote, he jumped an appeal bond and fled
to Mexico by airplane, subsequently sur rendering himself and serving
out the sentence in Trenton, New Jersey. There's actually a
pretty steady stream of press coverage about all of this
(23:08):
while it was going on, and one of the most
fun to read is uh this story that ran in
the San Francisco Examiner in April of n under the
headline the Wolf of Wall Street Trapped, with the subheadline
A prison cell at Last awaits David Lamar, the most
daring and resourceful pirate whoever tormented New York's Great Financial District,
(23:33):
And perhaps the best paragraph from all of this the
reads quote, David Lamar has been one of those hovering vultures,
and from time to time he has prayed upon the
best workers of the financial district for many years until
he became known as the Wolf of Wall Street. While
he was surely active in his fraud and impersonations games,
(23:55):
it actually wasn't until ninety three when we find that
David again gets arrested, and this time it was a
charge of grand larceny involving the sale of rubber. History
actually doesn't have to say about this particular trial and
arrest and jailing. We don't really know that much about
the story except that he sold but he never delivered.
(24:19):
Throughout all of this, we should mention that David he
wasn't just scheming. He had a social life and a family.
In Nive he got married to an actress who was
thirty six years younger than him. She was just twenty
one at the time, and her name was Edna French.
But that was actually his second marriage, his first wife,
Marie Anderson. You'll remember we mentioned his brother in law earlier,
(24:39):
but Marie divorced him in nineteen four, a year before
he married French. Yeah, and and she doesn't come up
very much at all. So, not long after his rubber scandal,
on January twelve, four, when he was in his mid fifties,
David was found dead in a hotel room at the
Hotel Wellington in New York City. His death was determined
(25:01):
to have been caused by heart disease um and all
that was left of his fortune, which at one time
was said to be in the millions, was thirty eight
dollars in cash, a suit, a hat, a cane, a
gold watch and chain. And gold cuff links. The front
page of the New York Times the day after he
died ran the headline Lamar found dead in midtown hotel
(25:24):
Wolf of Wall Street dies obscure and alone owing a
week's room rent. Yeah, all of those stories that broke
when he was found dead, you could tell they were
just aching for it to be something more dramatic than
it was, and they're like listing out, like, well, a
hotel porter said he did um stick to his room
by himself and wanted his towels delivered without knocking like
(25:46):
a druggist down the street. Was like he did buy
a lot of heartburn medication. And it's like, yeah, because
he had heart disease, because he was about to die
of heart disease. Yes, it's not really a very thrilling
end for someone that led nefarious, but thrilling to the
spectator life exactly. No spy came and got him in
his room, right, and the whereabouts of his wife when
(26:09):
he was initially found were unknown according to those first
press coverage appearances about his death. But David's body was
claimed by Edna French Lamar on January sixteenth, that's four
days after the story broke from the Riverside Memorial Chapel
in Manhattan. A funeral was arranged for the following day,
and a burial immediately followed. Friends, and we're using quotes
(26:31):
around that because that is who Edna named of David.
We're covering the expenses. And that was all according to
a story that ran in the Brooklyn Daily Eagle. So
at one time in his I don't necessarily want to
call it a career, but like you know, it kind
of was a long career. He had an estate in
(26:52):
New Jersey, and he had a mansion on Fifth Avenue.
He had wealth on and off, but what do you want?
It really was power and recognition and I mean, yeah,
and wealth, but like he wanted that to come with it.
While we mentioned a few of the highlights, and there
are way more than we even talked about. There are
(27:12):
much smaller incidents that lended David in court over the years,
usually under accusations of swindling someone out of money. Often
and seemingly miraculously, he often went free, uh not totally free, though.
You know, you play this game long enough and you might,
like David, find yourself forbidden to have transactions with various
(27:33):
stock firms due to your various unscrupulous doings, um or
you know, often you'll just find yourself broke. Oh, David,
I know he wanted wealth and power so badly. I
mean he got it sometimes sometimes not and off sometimes
(27:57):
so h it's an interesting one actually to do a
mocktail for I think, um, I know, researching David, I
wanted to take a few shots of whatever. So uh,
you know, So what do you bring to the table
this week, my dear. So this is a drink that
I'm calling a wolf and sweet clothing, and this is
(28:20):
one that is, um, it's very yummy, but it does
have a surprise little kick even without any alcohol in it.
So it starts out with three ounces of orange juice,
and then you are going to take any kind of
spicy syrup. I did mind two ways. I have one
that's a spicy mango syrup and I have another that's
(28:40):
a hobby nurro lime syrup. And I made it both
ways and both were very delicious. The aftertaste was the
primary difference. Interesting. I always love when you bring in
the mango one good. I'll describe how they taste a
little bit different afterwards. Um. And then on top of that,
you're gonna pour three ounces of sprite, and I like
to not mix this as I go because I like
a little subtle gradient to it. And then you're going
(29:03):
to take some black cherry puree just and just drizzle
it on top, and it's going to sink largely to
the bottom, but it creates these pretty streaks in the drink,
and then you kind of top it with three to
four marrish you no cherries. So it looks very beautiful
and sweet, and it is very sweet. But what happens
(29:23):
because of that spiky syrup that's in there afterwards, Like
it leaves this like film in your mouth where you're
like hot, spicy hot. It's very subtle, it's not it's
not bad, but I feel like this is how people
felt when they met this person who looked very handsome
and very put together, and then they realized, like, I've
been duped. Where did um? Oh? This bites a little
(29:49):
bit at the end. So yeah, So the one that
I did with spicy mango, it leaves that sense of
spice in your mouth. And the one that I did
with the Habbanniro limes syrup, it's not so much a
taste is just the sensation of heat, so it's a
little bit different, but both are very yummy. And if
there's like another syrup that you have that is in
that sort of family, like sometimes I'll make hallepeen you syrup,
(30:11):
which is super easy. If anyone's interested, you just do
your simple syrup recipe, which is one part sugar to
one part water. Throw a couple of sliced Halloween ews
in there while you get it to boiling point and
make sure the sugar is dissolved, and then you let
it cool and then you strain out or pull out
the Halloween news if you want, you can leave them
in there to steep. It will make it hotter and
hotter depending on the Halloween you. There are lots of fun,
(30:31):
easy ways to make hot syrup, but that was the
one I did and it was very yummy. Now for
my drinkers in the crowd, I will shock you because
in my experiments, this is another time where I thought
vodka was going to be the easy clear winner, and
again it was gin. I don't know how it is changing.
What's going on. Jim. Jim goes so well with that,
(30:53):
like hyper sweet and citrus combination. This drink can be,
if you are not into sweetness, a little bit cloying.
So when you add gin, it really kind of like
cuts back on that that soda sweetness. And it was
really really yummy. But I didn't try it. But I
think you could also throw rum in here, like a
white rum, and it would be delightful. It would feel
(31:13):
very tropical at that point. Yeah, exactly. So I actually
will admit that I found Marischino chraerries in my refrigerator
and happened to mention it to Holly, who promised me
that she would use them for a drink at some point.
And so I am very excited about this because it's
either used them in his drink or eat them on
a fork. Well, you can also make yourself a little
(31:35):
Shirley Temple course with a lemon lime soda and some
Maraschino cherries and some pomegranate juice or any kind of
juice really, if you just do half juice, half lemon
lime soda, or even club soda, if you want to
take it back from that sweet place and throw those
cherries in there, delicious. I have a lot of options,
but I like yours, got to do it too. Uh yeah,
(31:58):
throw a little spicy sir up in there and you'll
get a nice surprise and you won't be cheated out
of your money and doing so, I hope, we all hope,
like I paid seven hundred dollars to this bottle of syrup,
Please don't do that. You can make it for a buck.
This guy outside the story told me that it would
be the cheapest that I would find in town ever. Ever. Alrighty,
(32:24):
thank you so much. We hope if you trying this
mocktail or cocktail that you dig it. We want to
thank you again for spending this time with us, and
we will see you right back here next week with
more imposters. Criminalia is a production of Shonda land Audio
in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
(32:44):
Shonda land Audio, please visit the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shonda Land Audio in
partnership with I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the
third season of Criminalia. This season, we're exploring the lives
and motivations of some of the most notorious impostors throughout history.
(00:23):
Today we're talking about the original and legendary Wolf of
Wall Street. I'm Maria Tremarki and I'm Holly Fry. And
you may think you know who. The Wolf of Wall
Street was based on Martin Scorsese's movie, which was appropriately
named The Wolf of wall Street. Right, that is a
person named Jordan Belford, and that movie was based on
(00:44):
Jordan's book where he described his debaucherous rise as a
New York stockbroker right up to his very corrupted, messy fault. Yeah,
so Jordan's rise. At his peak, he bought mansions. He
bought cars for those car people out there, especially from
the eighties. He had two superstars, the Lamborghini Kuntosh and
(01:04):
the Ferrari Tester Rosa. He bought a helicopter which he crashed.
He bought a yacht which he sank. And as a
side note to that yacht, he bought it from cocosan. Now,
he took a lot, a lot which explains a lot
of his behavior. He took a lot of coludes. He
said that he modeled himself after his on screen hero,
(01:24):
Gordon Gecko, who was the ruthless corporate raider played by
Michael Douglas in the eighties movie Wall Street. Ultimately, Jordan
was arrested that was in and he pled guilty to
fraud and various crimes associated with defrauding investors out of
more than two hundred million dollars. And because he was
willing to cooperate with the FBI and give testimony against
(01:46):
his partners and subordinates in this whole thing, his sentence
was lightened. He only spent twenty two months in prison,
and it was during his prison time when he began
writing his book, his memoirs, which he called the Wolf
of Wall Street. That's a road name. We're going to
talk about that in the second need. He did steal
something in years after Jordan had served his time, Martin
(02:09):
Scor says, he's movie was released, it wouldn't be wrong
to call Jordan's the Wolf of Wall Street because he
certainly sounds as though he could be the wolf of
Wall Street. But it turns out though that Jordan's just
a Wolf of Wall Street. He's not the first, and
of all things he did, he actually never impersonated anyone.
(02:30):
Enter the real topic of today's conversation, David Lamar. David
Lamar is the original Wolf of Wall Street, not Jordan Belfort.
Although comedically enough, they do have something in common despite
that it's in their name. Neither of these men actually
ever really worked on Wall Street. It's just coincidence. Bryan,
(02:52):
So um, it is a little bit early, But we're
going to stop now for a break for a word
from our sponsor, so that when we come back, will
introduce David Lamar. Welcome back to criminal LYA. Do you
(03:13):
know how to short stock? This has been in the
news in recent times. Everyone's trying to figure it out. Well,
David Lamar, sha knew how to do it. Yes, So
David David was born in or around seventy seven, we
don't know the exact date. He went on to become
a legend for his financial scams as well as his
(03:34):
impersonation of a member of Congress and various other people.
Let's just say for right now, he was known for
walking about New York City with his diamond studied walking
stick for his horses, and also for being brash and
cutthroat in his dealings. So he was actually born David Levy.
(03:55):
We know that because he had a brother, Henry, who
would sign his last name Levy, and that how people
put it together. But David later told people that he
changed his last name to Lamar to match that of
a noted Mississippi senator in order to help facilitate his
business dealings. And Holly just said facilitate with quotation marks
around him. Yeah, that person he's referencing would presumably be
(04:19):
a man named Lucius Quintus Cincinnatis Lamar. And in the
eighteen seventies and eighteen eighties that Lamar served as both
a member of the U. S. House of Representatives and
then the U. S. Senate, and then he became Secretary
of the Interior and eventually an Associate Justice of the
Supreme Court. But here's the thing. L QC. Lamar's legacy
(04:40):
is one that is deeply rooted in racism. It is
extraordinarily ugly, and he had a lot of very active
rhetoric around white supremacy. So really not a great choice
for someone to associate yourself with via a name change.
It was not actually the only name that he would use, though,
David at Lamar also went by David Lewis, particularly during
(05:04):
a stretch of time he spent in Omaha, Nebraska, and
at one point JP Morgan smartly had become suspicious of
Lamar and his financial doings, and he put two and
you together, and he figured out that these were very
likely the very same man. So Morrigan actually paid to
have a judge from Omaha who had had dealings with
(05:26):
David Lewis fly to New York to identify David Lamar
as being the same man. And as you probably expected,
he was. And many sources say that David pretended to
be the heir of a wealthy Georgia family that allowed
him not only to live very extravagantly, but also gave
him better access to politicians and financial heavyweights. Some sources
(05:49):
also suggest that around people with money, David pretended to
be a legitimate businessman. He was charged with bribery in
in Virginia after what he got involved with, which the
press called quote electric franchise fight. Presumably he was trying
to help monopolize the delivery of electricity to people. He
(06:10):
went on to pose as a New York businessman while
he was in Mobile, Alabama. I mean, the list goes
on and on and on. It's actually kind of tricky
if you look back partically at his obituaries that came
out when he died, all of the newspapers are just
like lists of weird things that he was involved in,
and like his rap sheet, and it's actually so thick
it's you can see that they were even having trouble
(06:32):
keeping it all straight. It's hard to track the timeline
with the name and the associated event. Because he was mobile,
he was in a lot of places, and you can
see he managed to get into a lot of scrapes.
But he was very driven and even after any of
these scrapes, he always continued simply moving on from one
(06:54):
ruse to the next because he he had big imagination
um and knew a lot of people. Uh So, David
was the type of fraudster who would do whatever it
took to close a deal and make some money. And
early and really significant score for him was when he
fleeced the Rockefeller's in by manipulating George Rogers, who was
(07:17):
the secretary to Standard Oil founder John D. Rockefeller Senior.
David convinced the junior Rockefeller to buy stock in US Leather.
Rockefeller did buy that stock, and then David did short it.
Rockefeller Junior lost about a million dollars of his father's money. Okay,
so we told you we would talk about shorting. If
(07:38):
you do not know what shorting is, here is the
quick and dirty version because this will come up again,
and also it's just good life information to have. Shorting stock,
also called short selling, is when an investor borrows shares
and then immediately sells them with the intention of buying
them back later at a lower price. This is a
trading technique for people who are willing to take substantial
(08:01):
risk of capital laws, at least potentially substantial risk and lass.
It's also a trading technique that can make someone like
Jordan who we mentioned earlier, or David Lamar a lot
of pocket change. Yeah, he's gonna need a lot of
pockets right now. So much of David's story actually revolves
(08:21):
around following his arrest record, So we're moving ahead a
few years to a really great example of how ruthless
and cutthroat he could be, as well as his air
of feeling sort of above the laws he was doing things.
So in July, David's coachman was a man named James McMahon,
(08:42):
and he was supposed to appear in court to testify
against David Lamar on an assault charge. But unfortunately McMahon
was stabbed and beaten before he was able to enter
the courthouse, and because of this he was unable to testify.
David's brother in law and two of David's plays were
arrested and subsequently charged with having been involved in the
(09:04):
attack on McMahon. So now we're going to move on
the timeline to and that was an extraordinarily busy year
for Lamar. And during one scandal, a reporter actually asked
Lamar about his name change and his involvement in various
nefarious business dealings, and David replied, quote, I'm sorry, I've
never given an interview and I can't start now on
(09:26):
a personal matter. As for the matter of my change
in name, well, the Senate records show I declined to
tell the right one because it would make the innocent suffer.
Perhaps we really have no idea what he was getting
at with that, none whatsoever. I my personal suspicion is
that he was just trying to continue to cultivate his
air of mystery. I agree to, especially the addition of perhaps.
(09:52):
But it's here in nineteen thirteen when David begins to
impersonate some real big fish for power and financial gain.
Say you want an drive down steel prices in an
effort to short the stock and make huge amounts of
money for yourself. If you're David, you settle on a
plan to defraud the US Steel Corporation as well as
JP Morgan and Company, which pretty much dominated the corporate
(10:15):
finance world on Wall Street at the time. So to
do this, he figured he would pretend to be a
member of Congress. And he really did just do exactly that. Yes,
Like he woke up one day, I know this will work. Uh.
His target to impersonate was Pennsylvania Representative Alexander Mitchell Palmer,
(10:38):
who was a lawyer and a politician, and David faked
this persona in telephone interviews, and he even attempted but
failed to deliver a floor speech to persuade Congress to
his proposal. Sometimes your schemes, though, do not go as planned.
In this instance, while no one could see him over
the phone, and that seemed to work. He could not
(10:58):
mask his face in front of all those gersman who
actually knew Alexander Mitchell Palmer. That would actually been really
impressive on his impersonate, like the way that he was
imperson in people. And now he's like, now I covered
my face and face job it becomes Harry mission impossible
with the very much right, so Palmer. Actually, Palmer served
(11:19):
in Congress from nineteen and nine to nineteen fifteen, although
you probably actually know him better as the U. S.
Attorney General under President Wilson Woodrow Wilson. By nineteen twenty,
Palmer had his eye on the White House, and so
if you're not really familiar with his name, you may
be familiar with one of the things he's most famous
(11:40):
for doing, which were the Palmer Raids, conducted by the U. S.
Department of Justice between nineteen nineteen and January nine. The
raids kicked off what became known as the Red Summer,
and this was all led by Palmer, but it was
executed by a young j Edgar Hoover. This campaign targeted
(12:00):
people who were alleged communists anarchists, focused on people of
certain countries Russians were targeted, but basically any people who
were suspected of far left extremism were targets, and in
the end, about four thousand people were arrested and about
eight hundred were deported. Yeah, that whole thing started because
(12:20):
there was a bombing attack on Palmer, but then he
parlayed that into I am going after anyone I don't like,
particularly anyone for him, Like he just went mad with
his quest on that. It was kind of a weird
little story, you know, like somebody tried to bomb his house,
that messed up and blew themselves up, and the Roosevelts
(12:42):
looked across the street and they were afraid. So all
of this kind of played into what became this terrible year. Yeah,
they treated people absolutely horribly. David Lamar, not surprisingly, did
not get away with impersonating the Palmer, even though this
was several years price or when Palmer really would have
been in the every single paper in the United States,
(13:04):
though he was already a prominent politician, and David was
subsequently arrested at his apartment at the Hotel Laurelton, which
was in Manhattan's Midtown neighborhood. So to set the wealth scene. Here.
Let's say, if you're not familiar with New York City,
this is a neighborhood today where you'll find the Empire,
State Building, the christ they're building Times Square. I can
(13:26):
just keep listing them. There are many more attractions. But
back at the turn of the twentieth century, Midtown was
kind of a stagnant, almost commercial neighborhood. When David moved
in there though, it was undergoing a huge transformation and
moneyed families were turning the neighborhood into this bustling business district.
(13:47):
And that's when the big towers were created, the Prysler
Building was built, and it was all on par with
Wall Street when it came to power. Yeah, if you
look at the history of New York City, it's very
fascinating how initially the population was all clustered at the
south end of the island and it just slowly spread
up and up and up and up northward. Um, that's
(14:07):
a whole other story. It's a whole another show. In
a Senate committee hearing on this whole matter, Lamar, calmly
and perhaps amazingly, just confessed to impersonating people all the time.
A big deal. He would be like a picture of
nonchalance about it, and joked about it, like, oh yeah,
you got me. I'm impersonated people. It's hilarious, Like you
(14:30):
don't do that too. One press write up noted quote,
never before had the national lawmakers listened to such brazen
effrontery and acknowledgement of chicanery as came from the lips
of the Wolf of Wall Street on that occasion. His
own confessions clearly proved that his character was a dash
of Baron, Munchausen and Anius and a trace of Cagliostro.
(14:55):
I love that. That's a good description. It's a great
description that just apeared in the newspaper, like it has
a great description of him. So David was charged for
his attempt at impersonating a member of Congress, and on
December three, he appeared in the Federal District Court before
he had judged sessions, and after just about forty five minutes,
(15:17):
the jury found him guilty of impersonating by telephone representative
Alexander Mitchell Palmer with the intention of defrauding two major
corporate players. He was convicted on two counts of the
second of three indictments against him and his council planned
to appeal, and the court granted his counsel a writ
of error that meant a stay of execution of the
(15:40):
sentence pending the result of that appeal. And if that
just sounds like a lot of legal language in mumbo jumbo,
because kind of is. What it boils down to, is
that the court temporarily suspended David's sentence while his lawyers
prepared to challenge the case's outcome. And we did look
that up, of course as well. David did go on
to serve two years in Atlanta pen a tentury in Atlanta, Georgia.
(16:02):
We're going to take a quick break for a word
from our sponsor, but when we're back, we'll talk about
the sunset of david sordid occupation. Welcome back to Criminalia. Okay,
let's kick things off with David conspiring with a German
(16:24):
spy surprises no one. So over the years, the type
of David's engagements kind of changed a bit, although his
end goal was still, of course, power and money. So
fresh out of prison in nineteen fifteen, he acted as
an agent for Captain Franz von Rintelin, who was a
German naval intelligence officer which you could also call him
(16:48):
a German spy in the United States during World War One.
Much later, while giving a speech, the Captain joke amid
the audience is laughter that a secret service agent is
a spy. He is on the other side, but an
intelligence officer if working for you. He also admitted he
had lived in New York under five aliases, but that
(17:09):
was just about all he ever divulged of his intelligence
slash spy work. He was always pretty tight lipped about
what exactly he did and how exactly he did it.
Von Brintlin spoke on occasion about how the war would
not be decided in Europe. He believed rather that it
would be in the United States. So he struck a
plan to conduct a campaign of propaganda to improve relations
(17:32):
between the United States and Germany, and it would also,
he hoped, create a pro German sentiment in the US.
There was actually a second piece to this plan as well.
You know. So this was war and he also wanted
to curtail the commercial power in other countries and in
particular Great Britain. To do that, he wanted to prevent
(17:53):
munition manufacturing and shipments, and that meant strikes in American
munitions factories. This was important to the war effort, of course,
because munitions factories were making military weapons and equipment that
we're in high demands. Working together, Von Rintlin and David
Lamar as David Lamar this time concocted a plan to
(18:14):
pressure American munitions factories and shipping agencies to strike. They
figured out that they could do this by taking aim
at financial institutions and business organizations. And because of his
talent for manipulating people, as well as his obvious total
disregard for ethics and morals, David was considered the brains
behind this campaign. Von Rinteln gave him somewhere between three
(18:38):
hundred thousand to five hundred thousand dollars at the reports
on just how much vary. It's all big numbers, uh.
And this was given to David to implement the plan. Yeah.
You know, when you're doing spy work, you don't really
like broadcast your receipts on people speak your David Lamar
(19:00):
was not signing a received three dollars with a copy
right for this little carbon book. This whole thing, though,
despite all the money involved and promises of what would
be done with it, did not go as planned, and
that is because of David. Remember he was not any
kind of expert in such matters. He was an opportunistic poser.
(19:25):
David's reports on the campaign's success, when he reported von Riddlen,
we're all faked and they were always exaggerated, he was
basically like, yes, boss, everything is according to plan. Where
it was not until later that von Rentalin realized that
David had swindled him out of a large amount of
money and didn't deliver any results. And we should point
(19:48):
out this really doesn't reflect well on von Rentalin's intelligence
at all, Like, yeah, surely he should have spotted a collaborator,
but David somehow convinced him that he would be a
great partner in such a move. Why not, I's got
a lot of risk in and here's five thousand dollars um.
(20:11):
So it actually wasn't after he was swindled. It wasn't
bon Vinoline or any other man involved in the plan
as far as we can tell, who actually tipped off
the authorities. But David was yet again arrested. This time
he was convicted of conspiring with Germans and interfering with
munitions shipments, which technically yes, um he testified on his
(20:34):
own behalf that indeed he had engaged in the anti
munitions scam. David also gave up the captain and claimed
that the campaign was done at the request of actually
another man, someone named the Reverend doctor Thomas C. Hill,
who had also been a professor of Christian ethics at
Union Theological Seminary. Hill only comes up in the men's testimony.
(20:56):
Actually he remains a bit of a mystery to both
of us. Another man who was implicated in this plan
was Henry B. Martin, and he, like David, took the stand.
While he denied he knew that the money came from
a German source, he did admit that he accepted large
amounts of money from David, which he spent on the
behalf of the Labors National Peace Council as well as
(21:19):
promoting and distributing pro German propaganda to Americans. All of
the Labors National Peace Council really does sound like a
very official group. It actually wasn't at all. It was
a reputable organization, it was just one that David formed
all as part of this larger plan. So also taking
the stand that day was George Plockman, who was treasurer
(21:41):
of the Transatlantic Trust Company. He testified against von Riddlin, David,
a former congressman, and five associates for the Labors National
Peace Council. Other prominent businessmen and former politicians all denied
that they knew about any of this, and they definitely
or so claimed did not know that the Labor's National
(22:02):
Peace Council was backed by a German spy. The Sherman
Act passed in eight nine as a way to prosecute
violations that would include things like price fixing, market allocation,
and interfering with trade with the intent of lowering economic
competition for your personal gain. And if that doesn't sound
like David Lamar to you, yeah it does to us.
(22:25):
So the charge was conspiracy to instigate strikes, and the
men were all found guilty. David, Ron Ridlin, and Martin
were all sentenced to one year in jail. Yeah, it
kind of sounds like David Lamar read the Sherman Act
as like a job description, right, He's like, I could
do all these things, check in check. It should surprise
(22:47):
no one that after losing a scheme this big David
initially tried to run. According to the Evening Star of Washington,
d C quote, he jumped an appeal bond and fled
to Mexico by airplane, subsequently sur rendering himself and serving
out the sentence in Trenton, New Jersey. There's actually a
pretty steady stream of press coverage about all of this
(23:08):
while it was going on, and one of the most
fun to read is uh this story that ran in
the San Francisco Examiner in April of n under the
headline the Wolf of Wall Street Trapped, with the subheadline
A prison cell at Last awaits David Lamar, the most
daring and resourceful pirate whoever tormented New York's Great Financial District,
(23:33):
And perhaps the best paragraph from all of this the
reads quote, David Lamar has been one of those hovering vultures,
and from time to time he has prayed upon the
best workers of the financial district for many years until
he became known as the Wolf of Wall Street. While
he was surely active in his fraud and impersonations games,
(23:55):
it actually wasn't until ninety three when we find that
David again gets arrested, and this time it was a
charge of grand larceny involving the sale of rubber. History
actually doesn't have to say about this particular trial and
arrest and jailing. We don't really know that much about
the story except that he sold but he never delivered.
(24:19):
Throughout all of this, we should mention that David he
wasn't just scheming. He had a social life and a family.
In Nive he got married to an actress who was
thirty six years younger than him. She was just twenty
one at the time, and her name was Edna French.
But that was actually his second marriage, his first wife,
Marie Anderson. You'll remember we mentioned his brother in law earlier,
(24:39):
but Marie divorced him in nineteen four, a year before
he married French. Yeah, and and she doesn't come up
very much at all. So, not long after his rubber scandal,
on January twelve, four, when he was in his mid fifties,
David was found dead in a hotel room at the
Hotel Wellington in New York City. His death was determined
(25:01):
to have been caused by heart disease um and all
that was left of his fortune, which at one time
was said to be in the millions, was thirty eight
dollars in cash, a suit, a hat, a cane, a
gold watch and chain. And gold cuff links. The front
page of the New York Times the day after he
died ran the headline Lamar found dead in midtown hotel
(25:24):
Wolf of Wall Street dies obscure and alone owing a
week's room rent. Yeah, all of those stories that broke
when he was found dead, you could tell they were
just aching for it to be something more dramatic than
it was, and they're like listing out, like, well, a
hotel porter said he did um stick to his room
by himself and wanted his towels delivered without knocking like
(25:46):
a druggist down the street. Was like he did buy
a lot of heartburn medication. And it's like, yeah, because
he had heart disease, because he was about to die
of heart disease. Yes, it's not really a very thrilling
end for someone that led nefarious, but thrilling to the
spectator life exactly. No spy came and got him in
his room, right, and the whereabouts of his wife when
(26:09):
he was initially found were unknown according to those first
press coverage appearances about his death. But David's body was
claimed by Edna French Lamar on January sixteenth, that's four
days after the story broke from the Riverside Memorial Chapel
in Manhattan. A funeral was arranged for the following day,
and a burial immediately followed. Friends, and we're using quotes
(26:31):
around that because that is who Edna named of David.
We're covering the expenses. And that was all according to
a story that ran in the Brooklyn Daily Eagle. So
at one time in his I don't necessarily want to
call it a career, but like you know, it kind
of was a long career. He had an estate in
(26:52):
New Jersey, and he had a mansion on Fifth Avenue.
He had wealth on and off, but what do you want?
It really was power and recognition and I mean, yeah,
and wealth, but like he wanted that to come with it.
While we mentioned a few of the highlights, and there
are way more than we even talked about. There are
(27:12):
much smaller incidents that lended David in court over the years,
usually under accusations of swindling someone out of money. Often
and seemingly miraculously, he often went free, uh not totally free, though.
You know, you play this game long enough and you might,
like David, find yourself forbidden to have transactions with various
(27:33):
stock firms due to your various unscrupulous doings, um or
you know, often you'll just find yourself broke. Oh, David,
I know he wanted wealth and power so badly. I
mean he got it sometimes sometimes not and off sometimes
(27:57):
so h it's an interesting one actually to do a
mocktail for I think, um, I know, researching David, I
wanted to take a few shots of whatever. So uh,
you know, So what do you bring to the table
this week, my dear. So this is a drink that
I'm calling a wolf and sweet clothing, and this is
(28:20):
one that is, um, it's very yummy, but it does
have a surprise little kick even without any alcohol in it.
So it starts out with three ounces of orange juice,
and then you are going to take any kind of
spicy syrup. I did mind two ways. I have one
that's a spicy mango syrup and I have another that's
(28:40):
a hobby nurro lime syrup. And I made it both
ways and both were very delicious. The aftertaste was the
primary difference. Interesting. I always love when you bring in
the mango one good. I'll describe how they taste a
little bit different afterwards. Um. And then on top of that,
you're gonna pour three ounces of sprite, and I like
to not mix this as I go because I like
a little subtle gradient to it. And then you're going
(29:03):
to take some black cherry puree just and just drizzle
it on top, and it's going to sink largely to
the bottom, but it creates these pretty streaks in the drink,
and then you kind of top it with three to
four marrish you no cherries. So it looks very beautiful
and sweet, and it is very sweet. But what happens
(29:23):
because of that spiky syrup that's in there afterwards, Like
it leaves this like film in your mouth where you're
like hot, spicy hot. It's very subtle, it's not it's
not bad, but I feel like this is how people
felt when they met this person who looked very handsome
and very put together, and then they realized, like, I've
been duped. Where did um? Oh? This bites a little
(29:49):
bit at the end. So yeah, So the one that
I did with spicy mango, it leaves that sense of
spice in your mouth. And the one that I did
with the Habbanniro limes syrup, it's not so much a
taste is just the sensation of heat, so it's a
little bit different, but both are very yummy. And if
there's like another syrup that you have that is in
that sort of family, like sometimes I'll make hallepeen you syrup,
(30:11):
which is super easy. If anyone's interested, you just do
your simple syrup recipe, which is one part sugar to
one part water. Throw a couple of sliced Halloween ews
in there while you get it to boiling point and
make sure the sugar is dissolved, and then you let
it cool and then you strain out or pull out
the Halloween news if you want, you can leave them
in there to steep. It will make it hotter and
hotter depending on the Halloween you. There are lots of fun,
(30:31):
easy ways to make hot syrup, but that was the
one I did and it was very yummy. Now for
my drinkers in the crowd, I will shock you because
in my experiments, this is another time where I thought
vodka was going to be the easy clear winner, and
again it was gin. I don't know how it is changing.
What's going on. Jim. Jim goes so well with that,
(30:53):
like hyper sweet and citrus combination. This drink can be,
if you are not into sweetness, a little bit cloying.
So when you add gin, it really kind of like
cuts back on that that soda sweetness. And it was
really really yummy. But I didn't try it. But I
think you could also throw rum in here, like a
white rum, and it would be delightful. It would feel
(31:13):
very tropical at that point. Yeah, exactly. So I actually
will admit that I found Marischino chraerries in my refrigerator
and happened to mention it to Holly, who promised me
that she would use them for a drink at some point.
And so I am very excited about this because it's
either used them in his drink or eat them on
a fork. Well, you can also make yourself a little
(31:35):
Shirley Temple course with a lemon lime soda and some
Maraschino cherries and some pomegranate juice or any kind of
juice really, if you just do half juice, half lemon
lime soda, or even club soda, if you want to
take it back from that sweet place and throw those
cherries in there, delicious. I have a lot of options,
but I like yours, got to do it too. Uh yeah,
(31:58):
throw a little spicy sir up in there and you'll
get a nice surprise and you won't be cheated out
of your money and doing so, I hope, we all hope,
like I paid seven hundred dollars to this bottle of syrup,
Please don't do that. You can make it for a buck.
This guy outside the story told me that it would
be the cheapest that I would find in town ever. Ever. Alrighty,
(32:24):
thank you so much. We hope if you trying this
mocktail or cocktail that you dig it. We want to
thank you again for spending this time with us, and
we will see you right back here next week with
more imposters. Criminalia is a production of Shonda land Audio
in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from
(32:44):
Shonda land Audio, please visit the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Hosts And Creators
Holly Frey
Maria Trimarchi
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