September 12, 2023 • 25 mins
Hilda didn't exactly have a conventional childhood. Her mom worked for a Mexican drug cartel, after all. So Emmy and Hilda talk about Mami Licha's life - and how she came from humble beginnings in Mexico to end up as the family matriarch who shaped their lives.
CONTENT WARNING: This podcast has content that may not be appropriate for all audiences. You'll hear about some difficult subjects like drug abuse, domestic violence, suicidal thoughts, and sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.
RESOURCES: There’s a lot of difficult subjects that we cover in this show. If you or someone you know needs help - you can reach the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration hotline at 1-800-662-4357. They’ll connect you with information and resources on treatment. There’s also the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK. Both are available 24/7. You don't have to be in crisis to reach out either. They're available for anyone who needs help.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This podcast has content that may not be appropriate for
all audiences. You'll hear about some difficult subjects like drug abuse,
domestic violence, suicidal thoughts, and sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.
Episode two, The Hustler. I think most people would agree
(00:22):
that I'm a hustler. I work hard, I try to
always look put together, and I appreciate the finer things
in life. But like a lot of other hustlers, I
wasn't born. I was made, and sure my mom had
an influence on me growing up, but I really take
after my grandma. Picture this, it's the nineteen seventies. Cruising
(00:47):
through the palmline streets of San Diego, is an elegant
forty something woman with voluminous, short gold hair like Blanche
Devereaux a La Golden Girls. It's perfectly done, as it
always is, but from the rearview mirror of her brown
Classic Chevy Caprice, you can see she's wearing sunglasses like
a movie star. She's always on the move, driving from
(01:10):
her suburban home in del Sooul to meetings with business associates,
mostly men, in dimly lit bars and steakhouses. She's intimidating
cold to many, but to me all of an affection.
I relied on my miliche for everything while my mom
was in her addiction. My midie provided me with stability.
(01:32):
I'd go along with her on business. She showed me
how to dress, how to act. I saw how she
ran our family and her business. But one day she
was arrested and her picture ended up on the front
page of the San Diego Union Tribune. Even after this,
(01:56):
she was still my role model. I respected that she
came from nothing to be the breadwinner for our family,
and again she always gave me the love and care
I needed. I missed her dearly, but for my mom
it was more complicated. My mom and her mom loved
each other fiercely, but my Militia was controlling, and this
(02:18):
wasn't the first time she was arrested. It had happened
before when my mom was.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Just a kid.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So this episode is about women across generations and how
we shape each other. It's about my mom and her mom,
Mamilicha the matriarch, he original hustler. I'm emmy and this
is crumbs. It's to show all the things we settle
for and the bits of ourselves that make us who
(02:44):
we are. What I know about my mom's life is
that she grew up in San Diego, just like me,
but unlike me, she's still there. She lives just a
few miles down the road from where she grew up.
Her family lived in Delsoul, right by the border with Mexico.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I think the first years of my life, I think
we were kind of poor. I don't know exactly when
Mamilicha started working, but maybe I was around six or seven,
but I always remember having everything.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
When did you realize when you see Mamilita started working?
When did you realize what she did for a living?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Probably the time when the DEA agents showed up. We
were at the house and I was in my room
watching TV. My mom and dad were in the bedroom
with the door closed, and we had two beautiful German
Shepherd huskies in the backyard. Our house was all fenced around,
(03:55):
and someone came and knocked at the door. I went
answered the door, and there were some guys from the
gus An Electra company with a clipboard and asked, is
your mom or d at home? And I said yeah.
I closed the door and I went inside to call them.
I went to the room, I opened the door and
(04:16):
my mom shoved something under the bed and looked at
me startled and said, what did I tell you about
opening the door without knocking? And I said, well, there's
someone at the door for you, and I closed the door.
I went back to my room, but by this time
my dogs were barking a lot. So I looked out
the door, the side kitchen door, and I see the
dogs scratching at our fence, and so I go in
(04:40):
the backyard to see what they're barking at. I climb
over the fence and I see our houses surrounded by
men with guns, like literally all lined up on the fence,
and so I screamed, and then they start jumping the
fence over running into our house. By now I'm running
(05:03):
into the house, running towards my parents' room, and one
of them grabbed me in the hallway, and that's when
my dad walked out of the room and he sees
this man holding me, and so my dad attacks the
man and they're fighting, and now there's these two men
attacking him. And at some point I saw some pictures
on the table of drugs and they were arrested, and
(05:33):
then I had to go to court.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
For me.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
The experience of having to go testify in a courtroom
at the age of maybe ten years old on behalf
of my parents after the federal agents bursted into our house,
after I found out for the first time that my
parents worked for a Mexican drug cartel, and having it
(06:01):
drilled into my head by the attorneys and my parents
that I was a decide in factor whether they went
to prison or not. It was like a huge responsibility
on my shoulders. It was scary, and so I'm in
(06:22):
front of all these people in suits in a courtroom.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I just can't believe they asked that of a child.
Were you scared?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
My asthma also played a big factor because there was
an asthma attack that I got out of.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
You know how scared I was.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I guess I did very well because they didn't go
to prison. I didn't have to go move out or anything.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So they stayed out of prison and you got to
stay with them. I know you think of it as
a good thing, of course, but what kind of home.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
My mom was very overbearing, and my dad and her
had a very abusive relationship. My father was an alcoholic,
and my mom was very controlling. My sisters were much older,
so I pretty much grew up by myself. I was
very spoiled. I had everything that a kid could net
(07:26):
or want, except my parents. They were gone a lot.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
I had to get some shots on my arms every
Tuesdays and Thursdays, and they would give me a shot
on each arm for the asthma, right the allergies, and
I would kick and scream. I hated needles. I hated
these shots. So my dad came up with this idea
that if I'll pay you one dollar for every shot
(07:57):
that you let them give, you.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Lost my fear for needles.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Ironically, Yeah, but you told me your dad wasn't always around.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Right when my parents got arrested, this time, a lot
of other things started making sense in my head, like
the time that my dad was gone for a while.
We would go visit him on weekends, and him and
all the other men that were there wore the same uniform.
(08:30):
And I was told that Papa Vetto was working there
building airplanes or making the seats for the planes, is
what I was told, and so we would.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Go visit him.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I was so proud of my dad because he was
building airplanes, he was making the seats for these airplanes.
And I remember now as an adult, because I've been
in the federal system myself, I know that every year
they have what's called Children's Day in the federal prisons.
We were able to walk around the prison, and I
remember looking in every building that we walked by and
(09:06):
looking into the windows looking.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
For his room.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I wanted to see, well, where's your room, where's your room?
And I saw this weird looking room with some metal
bunk beds, and like, that can't be my dad's room.
So I just ignored it.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Hearing the stories we tell ourselves when we were little,
it's cute. I would also make up stories for where
you were. I'd be like, Oh, my mom's in the military,
that's why she's not here. So this is a story
that's been repeating across generations of kids dealing with adult
shit and needing to grow up really fast. So I
want to jump back in time a little bit to
(09:49):
talk about mamivi Cha, because she's the beginning of it
all in a way. She had a crazy life. She
always took pride in telling me how she started working
at a young age, and she was always a hustler,
right like, she was always trying to find the next whatever.
Since she was little growing up in the Goatlan Jalisco,
(10:12):
a small town on the outskirts of Wueralajara in Mexico, Mammi.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Licha had a very hard life. I believe she was
four years old when her father died. He was a
soldier in the war, so her mom had to work
selling food at the market, and Mammy Licha had took
on the role of caring for her younger siblings. And
(10:40):
there were times when she was hungry, when her siblings
were hungry, and Mammy Licha went out and did well.
She had to feed these boys while her mother was
off at work, whatever job she had to do to
help her mother to put food on the table for
these boys. And it wasn't until just a few years
(11:08):
before she passed away that I found out that her mother,
my grandmother, wasn't another relationship after her husband died. I
don't know for how long or how serious this relationship was.
I just know that this man is the one that
sexually abused Mammy Lecha when she was about twelve or thirteen.
(11:29):
She gave birth when she was thirteen to her first child,
and she was so naive at the time that she
knew she was pregnant, because people would tell her that
she was pregnant, but she had no idea what giving
birth was. And so when she went in labor, she
just was in a lot of pain. But she didn't
(11:50):
know that there was a baby coming until she went
and told a neighbor, and the neighbor said, no, you
don't have enopset stomach having a baby. After she had
the baby, I'm assuming she had to work to provide
for this baby and herself and by then her two
(12:12):
younger brothers. You know, you just have to kind of
imagine these three kids are home alone every day while
the mom is off working. Maybe a year later or so,
she met this man. I don't know how they met,
but this man and her fell in love, and so
(12:33):
Mammy Lecha moves in with this man, who is sort
of wealthy, good looking, the only child. He lives at
home with his parents. He turns her into a refined lady.
She starts wearing nice clothes and going to nice, fancy restaurants,
(12:54):
and she fell in love with that life very quick.
And this man six daughters, but like I said, they
lived with his parents, and so his mother called the
shots in that house. So this lady decided on everything
(13:16):
from what would be served from dinner, as to what
schools these girls would go to.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Everything.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
To this day, my sisters when they talk about their mom,
their referring to their grandma. She was not in control,
you know, they weren't completely hers. And I just thought
about that, how I felt like an outcast when it
came to our relationship, you and I, my mother and I.
(13:47):
She had gone through the same thing, you know, So
maybe it was just a pattern that maybe that's all
she knew.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
That makes sense her mother in law to go over,
so she did the same to you. So mammytas with
this guy.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
She was happy, she was in love with this man,
and she wasn't poor anymore, and she was learning all
these things. But at the same time, she was unhappy
because she didn't have him completely. He was you know,
he was a very good looking man, and he would
go out a lot, you know, and I'm guessing she
(14:22):
finally got fed up after six kids, and you know,
followed him one day and discovered that he had a
second family. And so she was so hurt when she
found out about this man's betrayal, and she packed up
her stuff and left, leaving her six seven daughters behind,
(14:47):
and she got on a bus and went to the border.
She stayed there with some relatives until she found ways
to come to the United States.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I know it was very hard for her to make
the decision to leave her daughters and come start a
new life in the US, but you know, she wanted
a better life, She wanted a better quality of life,
and the US scene promising.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I think that deep down she was already a strong
woman and she was not going to settle for those crumbs.
You know that everyone had given her up done till
that day.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So she makes it to the US.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
And then a cousin of hers and her went to
Los Angeles. They lived in Ease La. It was like
in the early sixties, and they had these big old hairdoes.
Mami Lecha had two jobs. She would get out of
one job, she would worked at this laundry place and
(15:56):
went to another one. And I remember that she lived
with her cousin and my aunt. They had a roommate,
some other lady, and they told my mom, you work
too much, Let's go out this weekend, you know, and
my mom was like, oh no. Her thing was to
save up money to someday have enough to bring her
daughters home with her. That's what her goals were. But
(16:20):
of course, I mean, she was young and she worked
a lot, so she deserved to go out, you know,
and so she started going out with them.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
They went to a bar.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
They're at a table, and you know, there's music playing,
and there's these two men in the background. I keep
looking their way. So my aunt tells my mom, I
believe that guy's looking at you. He's checking you out,
you know, and she's like, I'm not interested. I'm not
here for that, you know.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Now.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Her story is she wasn't interested in talking to him
at the beginning, but he just wouldn't go away. So
my mom was like, he just started showing up all
the time and then started offering me rights, you know,
like I could pick you up from work, you know,
and take you to your other job. And I'm assuming
my dad started you know, being really sweet to her whatever,
(17:27):
because she eventually she gave in and she started, you know,
getting feelings for him as well.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I can totally see her being cold and stunt offish
before falling in love. So they got married quickly, and
then they had you.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
I was born in East LA and I guess they
lived there for a year or two. But by now
Mammy Lecha's mom is in Tijuana. She moved down to Tijuana,
and she's older and she's sick, and so I guess
every weekend they were driving over there to visit, and
at some point they made the decision to just move
(18:02):
down to San Diego so they could be close to
the border and be close to her mom, so they
could take care of her. And that's when my memories
come in. I would describe my parents' relationship as very toxic.
My first memories one dark night in San Diego. There
(18:25):
was a storm, I believe there was lightning, something from
her movie kind of, and my parents were fighting. I
remember my dad broke a window. I was really scared,
and yet they needed each other. Years later, they went
through this whole divorce process with attorneys and the court
(18:47):
and splitting properties and whole ordeal, but then they still
saw each other every day.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
They couldn't be without each other.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
That makes sense too, because it's like it's all they know.
They both had rough childhoods with abuse, lots of hardships,
so I'm not excusing it, but it makes sense that
they weren't an healthy couple because that's all they had
seen as examples. It's it's like a generational thing. And
you know, she has a child at the age of thirteen.
(19:23):
You have a child at the age of fourteen. You're
forced to grow up very fast even before that, because, like,
let's be real, when my my Moadi Chiampapavetto got arrested
that time that you know, the story you told us
about them raiding the house, you got to grow up
really fast. Like usually people like kids at that age
(19:44):
aren't exposed to something so significant.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
My life was like that too, one thing after another.
Hers was the same, And now you're living all that.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I have built up an armor.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
This leads into like every area of my life, my work, relationships,
my romantic relationships. Like I always I'm very guarded in
things involving feelings. I also feel that my Milichev was
very much like that, right she was, and so I
(20:22):
think I must have learned it from her.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
You fell right into what she always tried to do
with me, you know, and your strings are a part
of that.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
With me.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I remember her telling me over and over stop showing
your weakness. You're not weak, you know, and that's just
who I was and with you was it just came easy.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I don't mind learning those defense mechanisms from Emily Chia.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
I think you feel pride.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
There is a sense of pride because regardless of my
with each other, did or how she lived like, I
am so proud of her for being the strong woman
that she was. And if I'm anything like her, wow,
that's just like a huge honor to me.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
She was the most important person.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
In my life, and yet I felt I couldn't breathe
when I was around her. She was such a strong woman.
She was so compassionate, but she was one to fear also,
like I knew a lot of her deepest dark secrets.
I knew who she could be. I can't say no
that I was afraid of her. I wasn't afraid of her.
(21:38):
I just didn't. I just didn't like who I was
when I was around her, and yet I wanted to
be around her all the time.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Mothers and daughters, it's always a complicated relationship. It's wild
to hear about the parallels in my mom's life with
my own, how we were both exposed to drugs, to
prison to violence.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
At such a young age.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
How we both tried to make sense of this adult
world as kids, and the stories we told ourselves to cope.
It's also crazy how we can trace directly the ways
in which our families and our past shape us. Mamiicha's
life was.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
A lot like mine.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
She had to provide for her siblings at a young age.
She faced heartbreak early on, so as an adult, she
craved one thing control.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
She wanted to call the shots. She was the boss.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
She ran her own business, and she ran our lives too,
especially when she felt we couldn't. And I'm a lot
like that too. It's how I show up for the
people in my life. But my mom is different. She
didn't care about the material stuff as much, and she
didn't crave control.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
She craved warmth.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
She just wanted her mom's affection, so she went looking
for it somewhere else. I think it's fair to say
that she found it with my dad. But Mami Lecha
never cared for him. As always, she had her hat
in things, so she played a big role, not just
in them getting married, but in their divorce too.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Next time on Crumbs.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Mammy Lecha thought that by me getting divorced. She was
going to have full control of me again, but she
didn't know about the heroine.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
It's really sad to hear that story, I think because
of how Heroin affected my life. Hey, listeners, there's a
lot of difficult subjects that we cover in this show.
If you're someone you know needs help, you can reach
the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration Hotline at
(23:53):
one eight hundred sixty six Y two four three five seven.
They'll connect you with information and resource on treatment. There's
also the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at one eight hundred
two seven three T A l K. Both are available
twenty four to seven. You don't have to be in
crisis to reach out either. They're available for anyone who
(24:15):
needs help. Crumbs is a Sonato production in partnership with
Iheart's Michael Thura Network and Trojan Horse. It's produced by
Hannah Bottom and edited by Margaret Catcher, Rodrigo Crespo and
Alex Umero, with support from Elizabeth Schutzel. Original music by
(24:39):
Dee Peter Schmidt and engineering by Carosmgagna e Mandel Barra Studio.
Recording by JTV Recording and Podcasting Studio. Executive produced by
Cono Brn and Giselvan Says for iHeart, Alex Fumetro and
Margaret Catcher for Trojan Horse, Gamila Victoriano and Joshua Weinstein
for Sonoro and me Emmy Lea Special things to Marina
(25:02):
Coronella and of course my mom Il Gambois. Listen to
Crumbs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
This podcast has content that may not be appropriate for
all audiences. You'll hear about some difficult subjects like drug abuse,
domestic violence, suicidal thoughts, and sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.
Episode two, The Hustler. I think most people would agree
(00:22):
that I'm a hustler. I work hard, I try to
always look put together, and I appreciate the finer things
in life. But like a lot of other hustlers, I
wasn't born. I was made, and sure my mom had
an influence on me growing up, but I really take
after my grandma. Picture this, it's the nineteen seventies. Cruising
(00:47):
through the palmline streets of San Diego, is an elegant
forty something woman with voluminous, short gold hair like Blanche
Devereaux a La Golden Girls. It's perfectly done, as it
always is, but from the rearview mirror of her brown
Classic Chevy Caprice, you can see she's wearing sunglasses like
a movie star. She's always on the move, driving from
(01:10):
her suburban home in del Sooul to meetings with business associates,
mostly men, in dimly lit bars and steakhouses. She's intimidating
cold to many, but to me all of an affection.
I relied on my miliche for everything while my mom
was in her addiction. My midie provided me with stability.
(01:32):
I'd go along with her on business. She showed me
how to dress, how to act. I saw how she
ran our family and her business. But one day she
was arrested and her picture ended up on the front
page of the San Diego Union Tribune. Even after this,
(01:56):
she was still my role model. I respected that she
came from nothing to be the breadwinner for our family,
and again she always gave me the love and care
I needed. I missed her dearly, but for my mom
it was more complicated. My mom and her mom loved
each other fiercely, but my Militia was controlling, and this
(02:18):
wasn't the first time she was arrested. It had happened
before when my mom was.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Just a kid.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So this episode is about women across generations and how
we shape each other. It's about my mom and her mom,
Mamilicha the matriarch, he original hustler. I'm emmy and this
is crumbs. It's to show all the things we settle
for and the bits of ourselves that make us who
(02:44):
we are. What I know about my mom's life is
that she grew up in San Diego, just like me,
but unlike me, she's still there. She lives just a
few miles down the road from where she grew up.
Her family lived in Delsoul, right by the border with Mexico.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
I think the first years of my life, I think
we were kind of poor. I don't know exactly when
Mamilicha started working, but maybe I was around six or seven,
but I always remember having everything.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
When did you realize when you see Mamilita started working?
When did you realize what she did for a living?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Probably the time when the DEA agents showed up. We
were at the house and I was in my room
watching TV. My mom and dad were in the bedroom
with the door closed, and we had two beautiful German
Shepherd huskies in the backyard. Our house was all fenced around,
(03:55):
and someone came and knocked at the door. I went
answered the door, and there were some guys from the
gus An Electra company with a clipboard and asked, is
your mom or d at home? And I said yeah.
I closed the door and I went inside to call them.
I went to the room, I opened the door and
(04:16):
my mom shoved something under the bed and looked at
me startled and said, what did I tell you about
opening the door without knocking? And I said, well, there's
someone at the door for you, and I closed the door.
I went back to my room, but by this time
my dogs were barking a lot. So I looked out
the door, the side kitchen door, and I see the
dogs scratching at our fence, and so I go in
(04:40):
the backyard to see what they're barking at. I climb
over the fence and I see our houses surrounded by
men with guns, like literally all lined up on the fence,
and so I screamed, and then they start jumping the
fence over running into our house. By now I'm running
(05:03):
into the house, running towards my parents' room, and one
of them grabbed me in the hallway, and that's when
my dad walked out of the room and he sees
this man holding me, and so my dad attacks the
man and they're fighting, and now there's these two men
attacking him. And at some point I saw some pictures
on the table of drugs and they were arrested, and
(05:33):
then I had to go to court.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
For me.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
The experience of having to go testify in a courtroom
at the age of maybe ten years old on behalf
of my parents after the federal agents bursted into our house,
after I found out for the first time that my
parents worked for a Mexican drug cartel, and having it
(06:01):
drilled into my head by the attorneys and my parents
that I was a decide in factor whether they went
to prison or not. It was like a huge responsibility
on my shoulders. It was scary, and so I'm in
(06:22):
front of all these people in suits in a courtroom.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
I just can't believe they asked that of a child.
Were you scared?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
My asthma also played a big factor because there was
an asthma attack that I got out of.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
You know how scared I was.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
I guess I did very well because they didn't go
to prison. I didn't have to go move out or anything.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
So they stayed out of prison and you got to
stay with them. I know you think of it as
a good thing, of course, but what kind of home.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
My mom was very overbearing, and my dad and her
had a very abusive relationship. My father was an alcoholic,
and my mom was very controlling. My sisters were much older,
so I pretty much grew up by myself. I was
very spoiled. I had everything that a kid could net
(07:26):
or want, except my parents. They were gone a lot.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
You know.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
I had to get some shots on my arms every
Tuesdays and Thursdays, and they would give me a shot
on each arm for the asthma, right the allergies, and
I would kick and scream. I hated needles. I hated
these shots. So my dad came up with this idea
that if I'll pay you one dollar for every shot
(07:57):
that you let them give, you.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Lost my fear for needles.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
Ironically, Yeah, but you told me your dad wasn't always around.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Right when my parents got arrested, this time, a lot
of other things started making sense in my head, like
the time that my dad was gone for a while.
We would go visit him on weekends, and him and
all the other men that were there wore the same uniform.
(08:30):
And I was told that Papa Vetto was working there
building airplanes or making the seats for the planes, is
what I was told, and so we would.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Go visit him.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
I was so proud of my dad because he was
building airplanes, he was making the seats for these airplanes.
And I remember now as an adult, because I've been
in the federal system myself, I know that every year
they have what's called Children's Day in the federal prisons.
We were able to walk around the prison, and I
remember looking in every building that we walked by and
(09:06):
looking into the windows looking.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
For his room.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I wanted to see, well, where's your room, where's your room?
And I saw this weird looking room with some metal
bunk beds, and like, that can't be my dad's room.
So I just ignored it.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Hearing the stories we tell ourselves when we were little,
it's cute. I would also make up stories for where
you were. I'd be like, Oh, my mom's in the military,
that's why she's not here. So this is a story
that's been repeating across generations of kids dealing with adult
shit and needing to grow up really fast. So I
want to jump back in time a little bit to
(09:49):
talk about mamivi Cha, because she's the beginning of it
all in a way. She had a crazy life. She
always took pride in telling me how she started working
at a young age, and she was always a hustler,
right like, she was always trying to find the next whatever.
Since she was little growing up in the Goatlan Jalisco,
(10:12):
a small town on the outskirts of Wueralajara in Mexico, Mammi.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Licha had a very hard life. I believe she was
four years old when her father died. He was a
soldier in the war, so her mom had to work
selling food at the market, and Mammy Licha had took
on the role of caring for her younger siblings. And
(10:40):
there were times when she was hungry, when her siblings
were hungry, and Mammy Licha went out and did well.
She had to feed these boys while her mother was
off at work, whatever job she had to do to
help her mother to put food on the table for
these boys. And it wasn't until just a few years
(11:08):
before she passed away that I found out that her mother,
my grandmother, wasn't another relationship after her husband died. I
don't know for how long or how serious this relationship was.
I just know that this man is the one that
sexually abused Mammy Lecha when she was about twelve or thirteen.
(11:29):
She gave birth when she was thirteen to her first child,
and she was so naive at the time that she
knew she was pregnant, because people would tell her that
she was pregnant, but she had no idea what giving
birth was. And so when she went in labor, she
just was in a lot of pain. But she didn't
(11:50):
know that there was a baby coming until she went
and told a neighbor, and the neighbor said, no, you
don't have enopset stomach having a baby. After she had
the baby, I'm assuming she had to work to provide
for this baby and herself and by then her two
(12:12):
younger brothers. You know, you just have to kind of
imagine these three kids are home alone every day while
the mom is off working. Maybe a year later or so,
she met this man. I don't know how they met,
but this man and her fell in love, and so
(12:33):
Mammy Lecha moves in with this man, who is sort
of wealthy, good looking, the only child. He lives at
home with his parents. He turns her into a refined lady.
She starts wearing nice clothes and going to nice, fancy restaurants,
(12:54):
and she fell in love with that life very quick.
And this man six daughters, but like I said, they
lived with his parents, and so his mother called the
shots in that house. So this lady decided on everything
(13:16):
from what would be served from dinner, as to what
schools these girls would go to.
Speaker 4 (13:22):
Everything.
Speaker 3 (13:24):
To this day, my sisters when they talk about their mom,
their referring to their grandma. She was not in control,
you know, they weren't completely hers. And I just thought
about that, how I felt like an outcast when it
came to our relationship, you and I, my mother and I.
(13:47):
She had gone through the same thing, you know, So
maybe it was just a pattern that maybe that's all
she knew.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
That makes sense her mother in law to go over,
so she did the same to you. So mammytas with
this guy.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
She was happy, she was in love with this man,
and she wasn't poor anymore, and she was learning all
these things. But at the same time, she was unhappy
because she didn't have him completely. He was you know,
he was a very good looking man, and he would
go out a lot, you know, and I'm guessing she
(14:22):
finally got fed up after six kids, and you know,
followed him one day and discovered that he had a
second family. And so she was so hurt when she
found out about this man's betrayal, and she packed up
her stuff and left, leaving her six seven daughters behind,
(14:47):
and she got on a bus and went to the border.
She stayed there with some relatives until she found ways
to come to the United States.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I know it was very hard for her to make
the decision to leave her daughters and come start a
new life in the US, but you know, she wanted
a better life, She wanted a better quality of life,
and the US scene promising.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
I think that deep down she was already a strong
woman and she was not going to settle for those crumbs.
You know that everyone had given her up done till
that day.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
So she makes it to the US.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
And then a cousin of hers and her went to
Los Angeles. They lived in Ease La. It was like
in the early sixties, and they had these big old hairdoes.
Mami Lecha had two jobs. She would get out of
one job, she would worked at this laundry place and
(15:56):
went to another one. And I remember that she lived
with her cousin and my aunt. They had a roommate,
some other lady, and they told my mom, you work
too much, Let's go out this weekend, you know, and
my mom was like, oh no. Her thing was to
save up money to someday have enough to bring her
daughters home with her. That's what her goals were. But
(16:20):
of course, I mean, she was young and she worked
a lot, so she deserved to go out, you know,
and so she started going out with them.
Speaker 4 (16:36):
They went to a bar.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
They're at a table, and you know, there's music playing,
and there's these two men in the background. I keep
looking their way. So my aunt tells my mom, I
believe that guy's looking at you. He's checking you out,
you know, and she's like, I'm not interested. I'm not
here for that, you know.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Now.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Her story is she wasn't interested in talking to him
at the beginning, but he just wouldn't go away. So
my mom was like, he just started showing up all
the time and then started offering me rights, you know,
like I could pick you up from work, you know,
and take you to your other job. And I'm assuming
my dad started you know, being really sweet to her whatever,
(17:27):
because she eventually she gave in and she started, you know,
getting feelings for him as well.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I can totally see her being cold and stunt offish
before falling in love. So they got married quickly, and
then they had you.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
I was born in East LA and I guess they
lived there for a year or two. But by now
Mammy Lecha's mom is in Tijuana. She moved down to Tijuana,
and she's older and she's sick, and so I guess
every weekend they were driving over there to visit, and
at some point they made the decision to just move
(18:02):
down to San Diego so they could be close to
the border and be close to her mom, so they
could take care of her. And that's when my memories
come in. I would describe my parents' relationship as very toxic.
My first memories one dark night in San Diego. There
(18:25):
was a storm, I believe there was lightning, something from
her movie kind of, and my parents were fighting. I
remember my dad broke a window. I was really scared,
and yet they needed each other. Years later, they went
through this whole divorce process with attorneys and the court
(18:47):
and splitting properties and whole ordeal, but then they still
saw each other every day.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
They couldn't be without each other.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
That makes sense too, because it's like it's all they know.
They both had rough childhoods with abuse, lots of hardships,
so I'm not excusing it, but it makes sense that
they weren't an healthy couple because that's all they had
seen as examples. It's it's like a generational thing. And
you know, she has a child at the age of thirteen.
(19:23):
You have a child at the age of fourteen. You're
forced to grow up very fast even before that, because, like,
let's be real, when my my Moadi Chiampapavetto got arrested
that time that you know, the story you told us
about them raiding the house, you got to grow up
really fast. Like usually people like kids at that age
(19:44):
aren't exposed to something so significant.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
My life was like that too, one thing after another.
Hers was the same, And now you're living all that.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
I have built up an armor.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
This leads into like every area of my life, my work, relationships,
my romantic relationships. Like I always I'm very guarded in
things involving feelings. I also feel that my Milichev was
very much like that, right she was, and so I
(20:22):
think I must have learned it from her.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
You fell right into what she always tried to do
with me, you know, and your strings are a part
of that.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
With me.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
I remember her telling me over and over stop showing
your weakness. You're not weak, you know, and that's just
who I was and with you was it just came easy.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I don't mind learning those defense mechanisms from Emily Chia.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
I think you feel pride.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
There is a sense of pride because regardless of my
with each other, did or how she lived like, I
am so proud of her for being the strong woman
that she was. And if I'm anything like her, wow,
that's just like a huge honor to me.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
She was the most important person.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
In my life, and yet I felt I couldn't breathe
when I was around her. She was such a strong woman.
She was so compassionate, but she was one to fear also,
like I knew a lot of her deepest dark secrets.
I knew who she could be. I can't say no
that I was afraid of her. I wasn't afraid of her.
(21:38):
I just didn't. I just didn't like who I was
when I was around her, and yet I wanted to
be around her all the time.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Mothers and daughters, it's always a complicated relationship. It's wild
to hear about the parallels in my mom's life with
my own, how we were both exposed to drugs, to
prison to violence.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
At such a young age.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
How we both tried to make sense of this adult
world as kids, and the stories we told ourselves to cope.
It's also crazy how we can trace directly the ways
in which our families and our past shape us. Mamiicha's
life was.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
A lot like mine.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
She had to provide for her siblings at a young age.
She faced heartbreak early on, so as an adult, she
craved one thing control.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
She wanted to call the shots. She was the boss.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
She ran her own business, and she ran our lives too,
especially when she felt we couldn't. And I'm a lot
like that too. It's how I show up for the
people in my life. But my mom is different. She
didn't care about the material stuff as much, and she
didn't crave control.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
She craved warmth.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
She just wanted her mom's affection, so she went looking
for it somewhere else. I think it's fair to say
that she found it with my dad. But Mami Lecha
never cared for him. As always, she had her hat
in things, so she played a big role, not just
in them getting married, but in their divorce too.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Next time on Crumbs.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Mammy Lecha thought that by me getting divorced. She was
going to have full control of me again, but she
didn't know about the heroine.
Speaker 1 (23:30):
It's really sad to hear that story, I think because
of how Heroin affected my life. Hey, listeners, there's a
lot of difficult subjects that we cover in this show.
If you're someone you know needs help, you can reach
the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration Hotline at
(23:53):
one eight hundred sixty six Y two four three five seven.
They'll connect you with information and resource on treatment. There's
also the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at one eight hundred
two seven three T A l K. Both are available
twenty four to seven. You don't have to be in
crisis to reach out either. They're available for anyone who
(24:15):
needs help. Crumbs is a Sonato production in partnership with
Iheart's Michael Thura Network and Trojan Horse. It's produced by
Hannah Bottom and edited by Margaret Catcher, Rodrigo Crespo and
Alex Umero, with support from Elizabeth Schutzel. Original music by
(24:39):
Dee Peter Schmidt and engineering by Carosmgagna e Mandel Barra Studio.
Recording by JTV Recording and Podcasting Studio. Executive produced by
Cono Brn and Giselvan Says for iHeart, Alex Fumetro and
Margaret Catcher for Trojan Horse, Gamila Victoriano and Joshua Weinstein
for Sonoro and me Emmy Lea Special things to Marina
(25:02):
Coronella and of course my mom Il Gambois. Listen to
Crumbs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
get your podcasts.
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