September 26, 2023 • 21 mins
Emmy briefly disappeared as a kid. In trying to figure out what happened, she uncovers something else: the ongoing battle between the two women that raised her.
CONTENT WARNING: This podcast has content that may not be appropriate for all audiences. You'll hear about some difficult subjects like drug abuse, domestic violence, suicidal thoughts, and sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.
RESOURCES: There’s a lot of difficult subjects that we cover in this show. If you or someone you know needs help - you can reach the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration hotline at 1-800-662-4357. They’ll connect you with information and resources on treatment. There’s also the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK. Both are available 24/7. You don't have to be in crisis to reach out either. They're available for anyone who needs help.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This podcast has content that may not be appropriate for
all audiences. You'll hear about some difficult subjects like drug abuse,
domestic violence, suicidal thoughts, and sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.
Episode four, War of the Mothers. The memories we have
(00:24):
about our childhoods aren't always like real, solid memories. They're
influenced by how other people tell us the stories of
our childhoods. Like you see a photo of you are Christmas.
You're smiling in the photo, probably holding up a brand
new Barbie doll, and your dad's telling you begged him
for the barbie for months, and when you opened it,
(00:45):
you were so excited that you started sobbing. It's hard
to say if you remember the moment or just that
story about it. I think that growing up a lot
of people believe that their parents are telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
The stories about my childhood were told to me by
two very different people, my mom and the other woman
who raised me, Mamilicha, and they told very different stories.
There's one story Mamicha would always tell. It's about the
time I went missing. We still don't know what happened,
(01:23):
but my Molycha's telling was dramatic. I was kidnapped like
something out of the telenovela as we watched religiously, and
it made my mom look bad.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Mamicha brought it up.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
All the time. I've never even heard of my mom's
version of the story. I guess I assumed she'd lie
about it. I don't know if that's fair. She was
an addict and all around just unreliable. But my mom
was the only person who was actually there, so I
wanted to tell her Mamilicha's version and get her version,
(01:56):
because somewhere in all this is the closest thing we
have have to the truth. This episode is about two
women who raised me and their battle to control me,
and the narrative I'm Emmy and this is crumbs. It's
a show about the things we settle for and the
(02:17):
bits of ourselves that make us who we are. So, Mom,
we ended the last episode right after your divorce and
the beginning of your addiction. Mamilia thought that you getting
(02:38):
a divorcement she would be in control again.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Oh yes, in control of me, but also more importantly,
control of you. After Nita and I got divorced, I
moved back home with her, and she loved us living
with her, and did too, but then I moved out again.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Was mamily man when you moved out?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, yeah, she was, but I was really stubborn and
I just had a way of going and doing things
my way. I think she let these things happen mainly
because she knew I'd be back eventually. Right, So.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Mommy started to tell me a story about this time,
and the way she told it kind of felt like
she had a camera to the house or something.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
You were her camera.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yes, I'm aware today, I'm aware.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Well, tell me about that story. What does she say?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So, it's about that time that you and I were
living in that apartment in Shula Vista.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
We weren't living with her, which is you and me.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
And it's my understanding that I was watching TV, watching
cartoons or something Sessame Street on, and then you were high.
You probably fell asleep with maybe like a cigarette in
your hand.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I can't picture that because I say that just because
I saw that so many times. And then a stranger
comes into the house and takes me and you didn't
notice because you were too strung out, kind of like
the robachicos that they talk about in Mexico. Right, it's
based on this myth of like a big scary guy
(04:21):
who comes around with the bag and just snatches the kids,
puts them in the bag, and runs away.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
But it's a real thing. It's a real phenomenon.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
It's like where the kidnapper comes and takes kids from
parents who are being negligent. But also like things that
I would see on the news when I was little,
like organized crime just coming in vans and stealing kids
from these little towns in Mexico where they would then
disappear and then they'd find the kid dead with missing organs,
or they'd play some in different households. That was one
(04:51):
of my biggest fears when I was little. The next
thing that comes to mind is I'm on the trolley
with this in the trench coat, and then they take
me on the trolley and then all of a sudden,
they changed their mind. They don't want to kidnap me anymore,
(05:11):
so they just dumped me in downtown San Diego. And
because of what I've been told, the next image that
comes up in my mind is in downtown San Diego
feeding the pigeons popcorn. That's the version that I grew
up with that you were high I got kidnapped by
some scary person, that it was because of your neglect.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
That is so far from the truth.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Why don't you tell me your version?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
That for me was one of the worst days of
my life. I even remember exactly what you were wearing
that morning. You're in the living room watching sesame. You're
wearing some Superman blue pajamas and slippers. You had beautiful
(06:07):
blue eyes and curly blonde hair, and your hair was
down to your shoulders or longer. You had long hair,
beautiful hair, and I'd never cut your hair since you
were born. At this point, you would see your dad
sometimes he would say like, we got to cut his hair,
and I'd be like, no, never. You're watching TV, and
(06:31):
I remember telling you, Okay, what are We're going to
take a bath? Now? It's probably nine am. The phone rings,
the phones in the kitchen, and so I go to
the kitchen to talk to whoever it was. So I'm
in the kitchen talking on the phone. I don't know
if a minute went by or five or ten. But
when I hung up, our front door was a sliding
(06:53):
glass door and it was open, and you were gone.
So you weren't high this morning. No, this was early
in the morning. You were still in pajamas. I hadn't
(07:15):
got high yet. I would usually go to your dad's
house later on in the day and that's when I
would get high.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Did the family know about your addiction? Did Mamilichena No,
not yet.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Nobody knew. I had just started using, so I was
new into my addiction. I want to say that around
that time she started maybe getting suspicious that something was
going on.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
So her story was just very believable to me because
it just checks out with the rest of your patterns
as a parent. So for me, it was very easy
to believe that this is what had happened, that because
of your neglect and your drug use, I got kidnapped
by some random person and like a junkie.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Let me just say this. It wasn't until she started
schooling you on what to look for, teaching you about
drug use, that's when you started changing with me.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
MAMMI said, was always like, you have to be my
little spy.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
From a very young age. She said, I had to
go through your stuff and report back to her.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And as much as Mammy Lcha wanted me to be
a part of my children, to be in their lives.
She taught them how to. I'm not gonna say hate me,
but they had no respect for me. They I'm sorry,
(08:47):
I just why are you getting emotional? Because to this
day sometimes I feel that nothing has changed.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
You know, it's like to not feel respected.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I just feel like and I just started feeling this
as of lately. My mom did a really good job
of like still being in control after she's gone, you know,
and all my children are quick to judge me or
tell me how bad. You know, It's like, no matter
(09:27):
how hard I try, I'm still stuck in that place.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Couldn't be that.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So let me just clarify something. I don't feel that
way towards you. I don't feel that feeling of like
better than or any I.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Don't feel that I I oh my god, I don't
want to do this right now. I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Take your time, let it out. We're back.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
We have to take a little break. But this is
a difficult episode to record because I understand where you're
coming from.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Mom.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
How Ma Militia always had her way of like manipulating
us into acting a certain way with you, and how
that has carried over through the years. So I'm sorry
that you're going through this right now at this moment.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, don't be sorry. I mean, it's not your fault.
I guess I just feel like but like she's been
gone how long and she's still calling shots.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
You know, all these years, like the thought of you
not being high never crossed my mind.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You were always suspicious of me, And again that's what
she taught you. You didn't just one day wake up
and say, I think my mom's using So I disappear
from the How what did you do? So I go
out there, Oh, I don't looking for you nothing. Our
(11:11):
apartments were connected to the parking lot, to the trolley station,
and then there was like an Arco gas station across
the street. I remember going to the Arco station. I
went and knocked on neighbors doors. I went to the
trolley station, and I'm looking for you like crazy everywhere,
and I can't find you. So now I'm scared.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I called a militia and I told her what happened,
and I'm crying hysterically, and her and your grandpa Papaveto
showed up right away. And so your grandma walks in
and I'm sitting there crying, and she comes up to
me and slaps me, and then she says, what happened?
Real calm. First she slaps the shit out of me,
(11:56):
and then she says what happened? And she said, well,
have you called the police? And I said no. She said,
well what are you waiting for? Call the police. We're
going to go look for the baby. So they take off,
you know, and I'm sitting there. I have to stay
there because you might come back. Right.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
So, I didn't know she slapped you when she showed up.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
She sure did. She fucking slapped me. She had a
heavy hand, so it really hurt.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Oh, I remember, I mean, you lost her grandbaby, you
lost your little prince. But also fucked up that she
slapped you because she could be harsh to put into
nice words.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
And so she and Papaweo go out looking for you
and I have to stay at home. I called the
police and then I was like stuck at home, just
going crazy. By now, it's already like probably three pm
had gone by, and I remember calling the police and
(13:04):
I asked, you have an update, you know, on my son. No,
they haven't found any little boys whatever. They actually found
the little girl. They're taking her to Polinsky. Now she's
the same age as your son, but no, we haven't
found him. And what is Polinski like child protective services
where they take children that the system takes away. And
(13:28):
I said, what does this little girl look like? And
they said hold on and they get back on the
phone and they're like, well, this little girl has long,
curly blonde hair and she's wearing blue pajamas. I'm like,
that's my son. That's my son.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So it's actually so funny and probably my favorite part
of the story that the police thought I was a
little girl. Yeah, because it's crazy to me that, even
from a young age, I had such a femine essence, right,
something I tried to cover up for years.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, I never thought of it that way. You're right,
So you picked me up and then did the police
say what happened? We had to go pick you up
at the Chila Vista police station and you were sitting
there like nothing, you know, just mommy, you ran up
(14:25):
to me and you know, all happy, and Mammy Leicha
and everybody. They found you at what was it, La
Placita and downtown San Diego, like from H Street to
downtown San Diego is a long way, very far.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yes, that's like ten fifteen miles I think.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
And you were feeding the pigeons because there's a lot
of pigeons, or you know, you were feeding them I
think popcorn or something. But the police didn't know what
happened when I called back, they had no idea. They
never fail yeared it out.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
So even you with calling the police back that doesn't
really feel with the story that I heard. But before
we get into over things with Mami Dechael, after this.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
When I told her that I was moving out and
taking my baby boy with me, she was very upset.
So this was like the perfect opportunity for her to
tell me, you can't handle taking care of a baby.
Do whatever you want with your life, Suck it up.
You already have done a good job of destroying everything.
(15:37):
She was now focused on this little boy that she
was going to mold into which she wanted. So can
you see now how you have no business taking this
little boy and trying to raise them on your own
because you're never going to be good at it.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
It seems very accurate something that she would say or do,
But also like you had to be so young, so
you really have like no defense because how old are you,
like seventeen.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I think I was still sixteen.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
It's very possible, like somebody could have knocked on the door,
I open it and they just take me. That's possible.
It has nothing to do with you or Mamilicha.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, well it was neglectful on my part. I know
that because I stayed on the phone. I don't know
if it was two minutes or five or ten. I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I mean, but mothers do that. That's very normal thing
for parents to do. Because you're in your house, you
feel secure, you feel safe. Do you think this story
the disappearance could have had something to do with Mamilita's business.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
No. I was still very young, and I don't want
to say innocent. You know, I really believe that you
walked out and the trolley opened, you got on with
all these people. I never thought of it being anything
more than that, because you're right, it does happen. I
(17:13):
went from being a straight A student and playing with
dolls to having babies and sharing needles like really quick.
I got burned a lot at the beginning of my
drug use because I was still so naive. I never
even thought that somebody took you away or none of
(17:34):
that went through my mind. I was just scared shit
listed you were gone, and all I wanted was you
back safe.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
It's more of a mystery than I thought. And Mymia
was always so quick to blame you for everything. It
just kind of made sense for me that that you
were igh. It's hard for me to deal with how
different my mom's version of this story is Frommilcha's, because
(18:07):
in my mom's telling, she recognized that she fucked up,
but not in the way I heard and believed for
so long. And if my mom is right, should I
trust her about the other stories too? I guess what
I'm realizing is that my instinct is to not trust her,
and that I was taught to think that way because
of how Mamilicha raised me. I was taught that Mamilichia
(18:30):
and I were the ones in control. My mom was
out of control. Mamilita was safe, my mom wasn't. In
a lot of ways, that was true, but not all
the time. If I've learned one thing about Mamilicha is
that she liked to be in control.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
My mom made that hard. She was rebellious.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
She challenged her a lot, and so after my mom
had me, Mamilichia had a chance. She couldn't control my mom,
you could control me. And it wasn't just our lives
she wanted to control. It was the narrative too. From
a young age, my Milichev planted to see that my
mom was not to be trusted. And some of that's valid, right,
(19:14):
but Mymiche was always quick to tell the story that
painted my mom in a certain light. She was trying
to undermine her to have full control, and that continued
for a while, basically until mimiche went to prison. Next
time on Crumbs, I.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Just had this perfect little visual in my head of
the perfect family we were going to be in Utah.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
So weird. I don't remember any of this, but he
would change.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
He was like a doctor Jackal and mister Hyde.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Hey, listeners, there's a lot of difficult subjects that we
cover in this show. If you are someone you know
needs help, you can reach the Substance Abuse and Mental
Health Services Administration Hotline at one eight hundred sixty six
's two four three five seven. They'll connect you with
information and resources on treatment. There's also the National Suicide
(20:16):
Prevention Lifeline at one eight hundred two seven three T
A l K. Both are available twenty four to seven.
You don't have to be in crisis to reach out either.
They're available for anyone who needs help. Crumbs is a
Sonato production in partnership with Iheartsmichaels, Thura Network and Trojan Horse.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
It's produced by.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Hannah Bottom and edited by Margaret Catcher, Rodrigo Crespo and
Alex Umero, with support from Elizabeth Schutzel. Original music by
D Peter Schmidt and engineering by Catosmgagna and Mandel Barra Studio,
Recording by JTV Recording and Podcasting Studio. Executive produced by
(21:02):
Cono Byrne and Giselan Says for iHeart, Alex Fumetro and
Margaret Catcher for Chrodren Horse, Camilla Victoriano and Joshua weinsteinfer
Sonoro and me Emmi OLEA special things to Marina Cornella
Gire and of course my mom Il de Gambois.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Listen to Crumbs on.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your
podcasts and don't forget. You can also listen to our
show on Amazon Music
This podcast has content that may not be appropriate for
all audiences. You'll hear about some difficult subjects like drug abuse,
domestic violence, suicidal thoughts, and sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.
Episode four, War of the Mothers. The memories we have
(00:24):
about our childhoods aren't always like real, solid memories. They're
influenced by how other people tell us the stories of
our childhoods. Like you see a photo of you are Christmas.
You're smiling in the photo, probably holding up a brand
new Barbie doll, and your dad's telling you begged him
for the barbie for months, and when you opened it,
(00:45):
you were so excited that you started sobbing. It's hard
to say if you remember the moment or just that
story about it. I think that growing up a lot
of people believe that their parents are telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
The stories about my childhood were told to me by
two very different people, my mom and the other woman
who raised me, Mamilicha, and they told very different stories.
There's one story Mamicha would always tell. It's about the
time I went missing. We still don't know what happened,
(01:23):
but my Molycha's telling was dramatic. I was kidnapped like
something out of the telenovela as we watched religiously, and
it made my mom look bad.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
Mamicha brought it up.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
All the time. I've never even heard of my mom's
version of the story. I guess I assumed she'd lie
about it. I don't know if that's fair. She was
an addict and all around just unreliable. But my mom
was the only person who was actually there, so I
wanted to tell her Mamilicha's version and get her version,
(01:56):
because somewhere in all this is the closest thing we
have have to the truth. This episode is about two
women who raised me and their battle to control me,
and the narrative I'm Emmy and this is crumbs. It's
a show about the things we settle for and the
(02:17):
bits of ourselves that make us who we are. So, Mom,
we ended the last episode right after your divorce and
the beginning of your addiction. Mamilia thought that you getting
(02:38):
a divorcement she would be in control again.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Oh yes, in control of me, but also more importantly,
control of you. After Nita and I got divorced, I
moved back home with her, and she loved us living
with her, and did too, but then I moved out again.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Was mamily man when you moved out?
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yeah, yeah, she was, but I was really stubborn and
I just had a way of going and doing things
my way. I think she let these things happen mainly
because she knew I'd be back eventually. Right, So.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Mommy started to tell me a story about this time,
and the way she told it kind of felt like
she had a camera to the house or something.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
You were her camera.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Yes, I'm aware today, I'm aware.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Well, tell me about that story. What does she say?
Speaker 1 (03:38):
So, it's about that time that you and I were
living in that apartment in Shula Vista.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
We weren't living with her, which is you and me.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
And it's my understanding that I was watching TV, watching
cartoons or something Sessame Street on, and then you were high.
You probably fell asleep with maybe like a cigarette in
your hand.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I can't picture that because I say that just because
I saw that so many times. And then a stranger
comes into the house and takes me and you didn't
notice because you were too strung out, kind of like
the robachicos that they talk about in Mexico. Right, it's
based on this myth of like a big scary guy
(04:21):
who comes around with the bag and just snatches the kids,
puts them in the bag, and runs away.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
But it's a real thing. It's a real phenomenon.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
It's like where the kidnapper comes and takes kids from
parents who are being negligent. But also like things that
I would see on the news when I was little,
like organized crime just coming in vans and stealing kids
from these little towns in Mexico where they would then
disappear and then they'd find the kid dead with missing organs,
or they'd play some in different households. That was one
(04:51):
of my biggest fears when I was little. The next
thing that comes to mind is I'm on the trolley
with this in the trench coat, and then they take
me on the trolley and then all of a sudden,
they changed their mind. They don't want to kidnap me anymore,
(05:11):
so they just dumped me in downtown San Diego. And
because of what I've been told, the next image that
comes up in my mind is in downtown San Diego
feeding the pigeons popcorn. That's the version that I grew
up with that you were high I got kidnapped by
some scary person, that it was because of your neglect.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
That is so far from the truth.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Why don't you tell me your version?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
That for me was one of the worst days of
my life. I even remember exactly what you were wearing
that morning. You're in the living room watching sesame. You're
wearing some Superman blue pajamas and slippers. You had beautiful
(06:07):
blue eyes and curly blonde hair, and your hair was
down to your shoulders or longer. You had long hair,
beautiful hair, and I'd never cut your hair since you
were born. At this point, you would see your dad
sometimes he would say like, we got to cut his hair,
and I'd be like, no, never. You're watching TV, and
(06:31):
I remember telling you, Okay, what are We're going to
take a bath? Now? It's probably nine am. The phone rings,
the phones in the kitchen, and so I go to
the kitchen to talk to whoever it was. So I'm
in the kitchen talking on the phone. I don't know
if a minute went by or five or ten. But
when I hung up, our front door was a sliding
(06:53):
glass door and it was open, and you were gone.
So you weren't high this morning. No, this was early
in the morning. You were still in pajamas. I hadn't
(07:15):
got high yet. I would usually go to your dad's
house later on in the day and that's when I
would get high.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Did the family know about your addiction? Did Mamilichena No,
not yet.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Nobody knew. I had just started using, so I was
new into my addiction. I want to say that around
that time she started maybe getting suspicious that something was
going on.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
So her story was just very believable to me because
it just checks out with the rest of your patterns
as a parent. So for me, it was very easy
to believe that this is what had happened, that because
of your neglect and your drug use, I got kidnapped
by some random person and like a junkie.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Let me just say this. It wasn't until she started
schooling you on what to look for, teaching you about
drug use, that's when you started changing with me.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
MAMMI said, was always like, you have to be my
little spy.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
From a very young age. She said, I had to
go through your stuff and report back to her.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
And as much as Mammy Lcha wanted me to be
a part of my children, to be in their lives.
She taught them how to. I'm not gonna say hate me,
but they had no respect for me. They I'm sorry,
(08:47):
I just why are you getting emotional? Because to this
day sometimes I feel that nothing has changed.
Speaker 1 (08:56):
You know, it's like to not feel respected.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
I just feel like and I just started feeling this
as of lately. My mom did a really good job
of like still being in control after she's gone, you know,
and all my children are quick to judge me or
tell me how bad. You know, It's like, no matter
(09:27):
how hard I try, I'm still stuck in that place.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Couldn't be that.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
So let me just clarify something. I don't feel that
way towards you. I don't feel that feeling of like
better than or any I.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Don't feel that I I oh my god, I don't
want to do this right now. I'm sorry.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Take your time, let it out. We're back.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
We have to take a little break. But this is
a difficult episode to record because I understand where you're
coming from.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
Mom.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
How Ma Militia always had her way of like manipulating
us into acting a certain way with you, and how
that has carried over through the years. So I'm sorry
that you're going through this right now at this moment.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, don't be sorry. I mean, it's not your fault.
I guess I just feel like but like she's been
gone how long and she's still calling shots.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
You know, all these years, like the thought of you
not being high never crossed my mind.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You were always suspicious of me, And again that's what
she taught you. You didn't just one day wake up
and say, I think my mom's using So I disappear
from the How what did you do? So I go
out there, Oh, I don't looking for you nothing. Our
(11:11):
apartments were connected to the parking lot, to the trolley station,
and then there was like an Arco gas station across
the street. I remember going to the Arco station. I
went and knocked on neighbors doors. I went to the
trolley station, and I'm looking for you like crazy everywhere,
and I can't find you. So now I'm scared.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
I called a militia and I told her what happened,
and I'm crying hysterically, and her and your grandpa Papaveto
showed up right away. And so your grandma walks in
and I'm sitting there crying, and she comes up to
me and slaps me, and then she says, what happened?
Real calm. First she slaps the shit out of me,
(11:56):
and then she says what happened? And she said, well,
have you called the police? And I said no. She said,
well what are you waiting for? Call the police. We're
going to go look for the baby. So they take off,
you know, and I'm sitting there. I have to stay
there because you might come back. Right.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
So, I didn't know she slapped you when she showed up.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
She sure did. She fucking slapped me. She had a
heavy hand, so it really hurt.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Oh, I remember, I mean, you lost her grandbaby, you
lost your little prince. But also fucked up that she
slapped you because she could be harsh to put into
nice words.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
And so she and Papaweo go out looking for you
and I have to stay at home. I called the
police and then I was like stuck at home, just
going crazy. By now, it's already like probably three pm
had gone by, and I remember calling the police and
(13:04):
I asked, you have an update, you know, on my son. No,
they haven't found any little boys whatever. They actually found
the little girl. They're taking her to Polinsky. Now she's
the same age as your son, but no, we haven't
found him. And what is Polinski like child protective services
where they take children that the system takes away. And
(13:28):
I said, what does this little girl look like? And
they said hold on and they get back on the
phone and they're like, well, this little girl has long,
curly blonde hair and she's wearing blue pajamas. I'm like,
that's my son. That's my son.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
So it's actually so funny and probably my favorite part
of the story that the police thought I was a
little girl. Yeah, because it's crazy to me that, even
from a young age, I had such a femine essence, right,
something I tried to cover up for years.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Yeah, I never thought of it that way. You're right,
So you picked me up and then did the police
say what happened? We had to go pick you up
at the Chila Vista police station and you were sitting
there like nothing, you know, just mommy, you ran up
(14:25):
to me and you know, all happy, and Mammy Leicha
and everybody. They found you at what was it, La
Placita and downtown San Diego, like from H Street to
downtown San Diego is a long way, very far.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Yes, that's like ten fifteen miles I think.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
And you were feeding the pigeons because there's a lot
of pigeons, or you know, you were feeding them I
think popcorn or something. But the police didn't know what
happened when I called back, they had no idea. They
never fail yeared it out.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
So even you with calling the police back that doesn't
really feel with the story that I heard. But before
we get into over things with Mami Dechael, after this.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
When I told her that I was moving out and
taking my baby boy with me, she was very upset.
So this was like the perfect opportunity for her to
tell me, you can't handle taking care of a baby.
Do whatever you want with your life, Suck it up.
You already have done a good job of destroying everything.
(15:37):
She was now focused on this little boy that she
was going to mold into which she wanted. So can
you see now how you have no business taking this
little boy and trying to raise them on your own
because you're never going to be good at it.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
It seems very accurate something that she would say or do,
But also like you had to be so young, so
you really have like no defense because how old are you,
like seventeen.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
I think I was still sixteen.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
It's very possible, like somebody could have knocked on the door,
I open it and they just take me. That's possible.
It has nothing to do with you or Mamilicha.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Yeah, well it was neglectful on my part. I know
that because I stayed on the phone. I don't know
if it was two minutes or five or ten. I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
I mean, but mothers do that. That's very normal thing
for parents to do. Because you're in your house, you
feel secure, you feel safe. Do you think this story
the disappearance could have had something to do with Mamilita's business.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
No. I was still very young, and I don't want
to say innocent. You know, I really believe that you
walked out and the trolley opened, you got on with
all these people. I never thought of it being anything
more than that, because you're right, it does happen. I
(17:13):
went from being a straight A student and playing with
dolls to having babies and sharing needles like really quick.
I got burned a lot at the beginning of my
drug use because I was still so naive. I never
even thought that somebody took you away or none of
(17:34):
that went through my mind. I was just scared shit
listed you were gone, and all I wanted was you
back safe.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
It's more of a mystery than I thought. And Mymia
was always so quick to blame you for everything. It
just kind of made sense for me that that you
were igh. It's hard for me to deal with how
different my mom's version of this story is Frommilcha's, because
(18:07):
in my mom's telling, she recognized that she fucked up,
but not in the way I heard and believed for
so long. And if my mom is right, should I
trust her about the other stories too? I guess what
I'm realizing is that my instinct is to not trust her,
and that I was taught to think that way because
of how Mamilicha raised me. I was taught that Mamilichia
(18:30):
and I were the ones in control. My mom was
out of control. Mamilita was safe, my mom wasn't. In
a lot of ways, that was true, but not all
the time. If I've learned one thing about Mamilicha is
that she liked to be in control.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
My mom made that hard. She was rebellious.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
She challenged her a lot, and so after my mom
had me, Mamilichia had a chance. She couldn't control my mom,
you could control me. And it wasn't just our lives
she wanted to control. It was the narrative too. From
a young age, my Milichev planted to see that my
mom was not to be trusted. And some of that's valid, right,
(19:14):
but Mymiche was always quick to tell the story that
painted my mom in a certain light. She was trying
to undermine her to have full control, and that continued
for a while, basically until mimiche went to prison. Next
time on Crumbs, I.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Just had this perfect little visual in my head of
the perfect family we were going to be in Utah.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
So weird. I don't remember any of this, but he
would change.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
He was like a doctor Jackal and mister Hyde.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Hey, listeners, there's a lot of difficult subjects that we
cover in this show. If you are someone you know
needs help, you can reach the Substance Abuse and Mental
Health Services Administration Hotline at one eight hundred sixty six
's two four three five seven. They'll connect you with
information and resources on treatment. There's also the National Suicide
(20:16):
Prevention Lifeline at one eight hundred two seven three T
A l K. Both are available twenty four to seven.
You don't have to be in crisis to reach out either.
They're available for anyone who needs help. Crumbs is a
Sonato production in partnership with Iheartsmichaels, Thura Network and Trojan Horse.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
It's produced by.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Hannah Bottom and edited by Margaret Catcher, Rodrigo Crespo and
Alex Umero, with support from Elizabeth Schutzel. Original music by
D Peter Schmidt and engineering by Catosmgagna and Mandel Barra Studio,
Recording by JTV Recording and Podcasting Studio. Executive produced by
(21:02):
Cono Byrne and Giselan Says for iHeart, Alex Fumetro and
Margaret Catcher for Chrodren Horse, Camilla Victoriano and Joshua weinsteinfer
Sonoro and me Emmi OLEA special things to Marina Cornella
Gire and of course my mom Il de Gambois.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
Listen to Crumbs on.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your
podcasts and don't forget. You can also listen to our
show on Amazon Music
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