BOMANI JONES

Producer, writer, and entrepreneur Bomani Jones shows us
there really isn’t anything he can’t do. Well, except pick out curtains. According to Steve, we can defer to him for good buying practices and bad dad jokes.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is cut to it with Steve Smith Senior at
production of The Black Effect and I Heart Radio. I'm
Steve Smith Senior, and and this is cut to it.
Good do it, Good do it. Let's get down to
do it. Good do it. We asked the questions you

(00:20):
always want to know, but no one ever asked, let's
cut to it. You ain't heard about it, then we're
about to let you. Now it's all. We got a
good one of day. Yes we do. The host of

(00:44):
Game theory entrepreneur. He's a host not of game shows,
but he's also a journalist and super uper uh uper
super super uper. He got so many degrees and yet
he's doing sports. But we'll get into that. Bomani Joe.

(01:06):
No matter thing's happening. I appreciate it. Were about welcome bro,
you about that something fun, kick back, Take shoes off,
close curtain, everything's good, better curtain. Sorry, that's bad, bad bath.
Just that ain't west That ain't right there, that's not

(01:27):
west side. I think you're ignoring the fact that I'm
a single man. Like like like, if you would have
asked me to go get a good curtain, I could
get you. I could go get an expensive curtain, but
I can't tell you that I would know a good
one if I saw it. Hints kind of why you're
still single. That goes the other one. Gonna convince me

(01:54):
that before you got married, all of a sudden you're
furticure game, but you're the floor was just super duper
all point. At least it's up that you did for yourself,
not wonder one, wonder one. I'm light skinned, so I
can say possibly, let's just say we all learned the game.
I was gonna say game recognized games. Did you see

(02:14):
my face? I said possibly? Yeah? Alright, so man, um,
I love this. Well, this is this is really it's
right up Lley. It has nothing to do with the podcast,
just random, just super duper random questions. So iceb it's
called get ice stuff. Yeah. So it's just like you know,
I'm like, why is he asking me that? It's just

(02:36):
just get your relaxing in. Sometimes I'm a dad, so
there's times where I just have I just got terrible
dad jokes, right, so I'm going to your repertoire. Well
they actually there's an app called dad Jokes. You're supposed
to finesse out of it. Yeah, no, no, sometimes you

(02:57):
just gotta on it. Got on it, all right. So
here's a pretty bad one. It's an icebreaker. Why are
rivers so rich? Ohm hm hm m hmm. Good question.
Why are we so rich? Because they have two banks?

(03:21):
But I'm sorry, man, hey, that was the best I
got right there. I gotta say. I was really trying
to like think I could like get it. I'm going
to figure out the answer myself. And Nope, didn't get

(03:41):
to the bank. I was. I was like he said
about currency perhaps, No, Nope, I was when you go
through that performance, I was just gonna wait on the answer. Yeah,
it's really it. Literally. I said this the other day.
We were at dinner. Um, we're at lunch, and my
kids looked at me. I was like, yeah, so whatever,
it doesn't it doesn't matter. It was I was feeling it,

(04:04):
so that's all it counts. Drake talked about that fake love.
That's that's it right there. Yeah, you know that fake love.
I can have it right in the line before we
check on that flight. All right, um man, who is
someone important in your life? Somebody important in my life?
For this one, I'll say my brother. Like I moved

(04:24):
to New York five years ago. And one of the
cool things is that my brother is thirteen years old
than me, so like we're closer in age now than
we've ever been before, if that makes sense. Like when
you're eighteen and you know he's eighteen and you're five,
you know, then what uh and so and so like
I moved here five years ago. He lives like literally

(04:45):
a block away from me now, and so we get
to you know, kick it as adults, like both of
us being adults, which is like a real cool thing,
not like he being an adult and you uh, you know,
like not everything I do now was the reason to
give me advice because you know, otherwise it is it's

(05:07):
like it's your story. Yeah, put you all into something
right fast called the party? Are you? Um man? Where
are you from? In a place you call your hometown?
I was born in Atlanta, but we moved to Houston
when I was six and we stayed there to a
lot of sixteens, so I'd say I grew up in Houston. Now,

(05:27):
how was growing up in Houston for you? Well, it's
interesting because I grew up in like the northwest suburbs
of Houston, but my parents taught at a prairie view
and the university, and my parents thought that where we
lived just had too many white people for them to
feel comfortable put me in the schools um and so
I went to school in this town called Wall of Texas,

(05:48):
population fourteen hundred nine when I graduated. So it's like
I grew up in one place but went to school
in another place. Hold on, how many fourteen? So less
you know how many people are your graduating class? No,
if my graduating class had two hundred people, goes well,

(06:09):
see how it goes in the country is one town
has the school for a bunch of towns, right right,
Like you just got the one that's the location, and
then you know, because the geography, and then they bring
everybody in. So we had like people um in my
graduating class. But yeah, so it's kind of interesting to
like live in one place but you're like day to

(06:32):
day life is in another. And it's also kind of
interesting when you do that. And most people are trying
to go from like lower income areas to find ways
to sneak into the schools of the higher income areas,
and you gotta higher income sneaking. Yeah, the other ways involved,
we call that ask backwards. Yeah, but you know what.

(06:55):
That's the thing about being black though, right, is that
the social the social stuff, it's so important. And so
rather than winding up like isolated as like the one
black dude in some of these other spaces, and I've
seen it happen to other people and I seen him
get destroyed by it. Instead, like I went to school
at what people would kind of think of as like

(07:17):
the middle of nowhere type stuff, and it was the
best thing that could have happened for me because what
I had to learn was how to actually talk to people,
you know, Like you could be the smart kid in
these other places and just only be around the smart
kids and you come out of there and don't know
how to interact with people, right, Like that's how you
you know, And there was a learning process for me.
But I got an awareness of life where if I
had just gone to school with a bunch of people

(07:39):
who grew up in the same neighborhood as I did,
I would have had a much different view of the
world than I did from going somewhere where like classes
and was determined who goes to school here. It's just
pure geography. So you meet a little bit of this,
a little bit of that a little bit. You know,
all these people all over place, so you know that's
that's the thing that's a little different for me about
it is I learned very quickly that Okay, my parents

(07:59):
are us is that's cool. But you better learn how
to talk to like secretaries too, you know what I mean?
You better learn how to talk to the people that
work in the building, and you know and recognize that
they are you, you are them, Like, ain't a whole
lot of difference betweens. So so with parents who were professors,
what were those kitchen table conversations like for you early on? Well,

(08:20):
the thing with them is, at least for me, it
was less about like what they were saying to me
as much as what they were saying to each other.
And I just happened to be there, you know. You're like, yeah, yeah,
you know, so like them talking about what they see
on the news, it lands a little different when it's
an economist and the political scientists talking about it, you

(08:41):
know what I mean. Little yeah, and it's but it's
not like they're talking about it in like high falut
terms or anything like that. Like it's not you know,
it's not that sort of vibe but what what made
that interesting for me? The is so since my siblings
are old, right, like my brother's thirteen years old to me,
my sisters ten years older to be the people I
went to school with twenty something miles away. So like

(09:02):
my handout partners by the house are these professors and
their friends who are also professors. So I'm at home
and there's like that level of conversation that I'm accustomed to.
It took a long time to figure out how to
adapt that to like dealing with everybody else. You know,
It's funny, is mhmm? You sound like my I'm not comparing,

(09:26):
but you sound like my son Deuce, who's seven. My
oldest is four, second should be twenty one in September.
Then I gotta soon to be seventeen year old. Then
who got a seven year old? Right? And when my
seventh year oldest he's at basketball practice, are not at
the house. There are things that me and my wife

(09:49):
are talking about that deuces ear hustling on and then
he's starting to interrupt and ask follow up questions right
like a lab right on that excuse me? Right? And
and so it's you're connecting, Yes, you're connecting. Those dots

(10:10):
like you're talking, I'm going wow, like just just thinking
about it, so you know, and and I interrupted to
to connect the dots. So what are some of those
conversations that that that g s like that you and
maybe that you're even having applied until now that you
like you're just you're just connect your dots like oh like,

(10:32):
because I know they're not sitting there having hyper uh
you know, intellectual conversations. They're like they're at the house
between their walls, right intimate you know, mom and dad,
you got their stuff, and then they're just loose, right,
a little bit loose where they don't have to work
concern themselves with you know, how they said they could

(10:54):
sometimes said in the way that they how they truly
feel uh economically, ethnically, um ship by the end of
the day just kind of like hey, I'm I'm just
tired today and this is and just just saying that
the real way they want to say, Yeah, like I
think the big thing and I picked it up. I
know exactly when I fully put the dots together, like, oh, right,

(11:16):
is like my father's skepticism about racing America. I did
not necessarily share the whole way because then I grew
up in the nineties. The nineties, to me, we're like
the most optimistic time on races. They like like we
actually had an era where high fashion was closed telling
people not to be racist no more, you know, like
it was kind of a dawn of the time that
felt like we might have been doing something. And then

(11:37):
Hurricane can Train a hit and I was like, oh
I was wrong about everything, right, Like wow, No, they
really will just ignore us just because we're black. Oh
they really will stop us from coming over a bridge
just because we're black. Like I just that was like
a wild thought to me up until that point, like
it could be like almost governmental, not just like a
couple of people around and so like here and my

(11:59):
dad and parents are both like sitting, you know, supposed
who did involved in significant like historically significant citty in
and stuff when they were younger. That it's that discussion.
But I think the other part that where I got
really lucky was I spent Since I didn't live where
I went to school, I would go to my mom's
office after school and she was the dean of business
at her view for most of my childhood, and so

(12:22):
I had like exposure to how an office ran, and
importantly it was being exposed to an office where a
woman is at the top of the chain, Like a
woman is the one not just that people have to respect,
but also it's the person who establishes the culture um

(12:43):
of the office. And that as I really look back
at it, like I think about now doing this TV
show and not like being the boss boss, but being
on top of it that learning how to like I
learned how to relate to people in offices and kind
of see the importance of how everybody feels about different
things and stuff like that, people having some good fortune
of being around that managing people, Yes, managing people and

(13:05):
recognizing that like flexi power where people's face ain't gonna work,
like respect is earned. You're gonna have to like if
they don't respect you, you you ain't gonna make them respect you. Right,
you can make them fear you, but you can't make
them respect you. And I think that's something that women
are far more likely to understand than men because in
the end, then you know, as there the parking lot
to really come down to it, you know, like there's

(13:25):
a chain of there's a chain of events to earn
that respect With women now you just gotta hurt it. Yeah,
I like it. I'm it's it's a lot there to unpack,
because there is there are some things that you know,
as men, m it just doesn't add up for us.

(13:48):
We just don't get it. But then you also add
the business aspect of it, where you know, I use
a phrase bulling the china closet, right, and then listening
to everyone in and taking the temperature of the room
and figuring out who you know, for myself is figuring
out what is what is Sally? What is Jenny? What

(14:13):
is James? What are they going through at home? To
know what can I get out of them today and
figuring that out, and then also going, yeah, Alison just
is having a tough day today. So there's no sense
trying to pull that extra out of it, because all
you're gonna do is actually reset the whole office. You're

(14:35):
gonna mess up the whole office, and then that whole
office is gonna be mad at you and you're the boss.
Things you got to navigate through, uh, going going back
through to your your upbringing. You graduated from Wala High
School in Houston when you were sixteen. Now I don't
that's not something that happens every day. Walk us through that. No,

(14:56):
it's just when we moved to Texas, Um I was
a little ahead of the curriculum that they would teaching
slightly time. Yeah, well yeah, well the thing was like
prior to that, the way I described it is, I
did like a home school at somebody else's house, but
it was real like red, black, green, power to the

(15:18):
people type situation, you know what I mean. And so
in a situation like that, you're not going to what
is your quote unquote grade level. You go on as
far as you go. And so when we moved to Texas,
that was just jumping back for me to like things
I had long done before. And it just didn't make
no sense for me to be in the grade that
they had me in, and so they put me up one.

(15:39):
And then on top of that, my birthday is late
as in eight August, and like September is the roll
over for schools there. So for me it became interesting
because I was already one of the youngest people in
the grade I was supposed to be in, and then
you get skipped a grade, so I'm like two years
younger than people in my actual grade. But it's what

(16:00):
it always was, so I never really gave it any thought.
It's stunk in like middle school when everybody's growing and
still you're still waiting for the party. Um. But by
you know, by twelfth grade, I got up six feet,
so you know, I made it back to the point.
Know I I got back. I got back around where
the crew was eventually, you know, but in the and
it it being a time. Yeah, you know, like sports

(16:20):
win't gonna happen for me, like the calendar dictated. That's true.
Did you ever feel out of place because because of that?
And if you did, did you ever feel that being
out of place? Did you ever view that as an opportunity? Now?
I didn't feel out of place because of age stuff,
because I was like I was in school with all
those people from third grade up like whatever it was.

(16:43):
It always was like they might not necessarily know how
old I was. It wasn't. But I didn't get that
part um really too much thought, um, because it wasn't
like I couldn't hang into space as I was in.
So like if I was in like if I if
you skip me a grade and I'm way less mature
than the kids in the grade because I'm too young,
then that's gonna be one thing. But whenever they put

(17:04):
me up in something like that, like I was, I
was cool with being in that space because I like
I knew why I was there. I knew I could
hang Like. It wasn't that I'm spending all this time
hanging out with actually grown ups. You know, these kids
who were just a year older than me. That ain't
You had your folks, right, you had your brother and
then you were you know, age wise, you were you

(17:26):
were younger, So it was it was the status quote
for you. That was that was that was every day
you're flourishing and standing out, you know even you know
what it was. Yeah, you don't even know you're flourishing.
That's just your every day right, Yeah, it's Well. The
other thing was, for whatever reason, I've been somebody that
people could identify as smart, like really early and without

(17:48):
much background. It's not like they're just waiting around to
being like, oh, this guy's really smart. Like for whatever reason,
people catch it pretty quick. And so especially when you
going to school with the same people for all these years,
like they knew I was the smart dude from nineteen
eighties seven, all like that's that's who and what I was,
And so I always had a place because I always
had that, which is actually cool because I learned something

(18:11):
that I think a lot of like smart kids don't
quite get, which is the other kids do. They don't
mind you being smart. They just don't want you to
be a jerk about it, you know what I mean,
Like they might pick on you for being a nerve,
but everybody wants to be smart, and a single person
out here, like man, I wish I was who wants
to Yeah, they just don't want you to be a

(18:33):
jerk about being smart. But it was always my bag,
Like it was when I went to college, it was
a problem because I realized, oh, you gotta have a
different hustle than this, Like that's like I'm the smartest
person in the room. Does not worked as an adult,
but as a child people think that stuff is kind
of cool. What what was some of your dreams growing
up as as a as a child? Man? So it's

(18:53):
actually funny because it's like bo Jackson was my like
number one athlete. He wrote, like and ship still is
what I'm talking about. Used to be um And I
remember I had the boat was closed. I don't know
if you remember, it's one that went long ways across
with the with the bat. This is the one where
he was doing everything like it said when he was
both Yeah, so he's like in a hockey years too poor.

(19:17):
We just had the bat to show the path. I
didn't know there was another Yeah that was I had bikes.
I didn't have nikes. I had bikes. So only only
one I know was to show the pads in the bat.
What you're talking about. I'm not on that side of
the county. I'm on the other yonder. It did not

(19:38):
I did not realize until right now that bikes shoes
were actually blue leg night. I never put the two
with two together. Serious, you can get it from Sears. Yeah,
I just until right like I remember him and I
was like, how what an interesting name for shoes. Consider
that that was it? But now but it was the
closed with him doing all the stuff. And when I
was growing up, I wanted to do everything, like I

(20:00):
believe that I could be good at doing a ziity
and different things like jack ball trades like that was
the idea of what I wanted to do. And it's
actually kind of wild because I did the thirty thirty
on bo Jackson. I sat for that, and I don't
on me while I was in it. Like when you
look at what like, especially with media is in this
day and time. But I am doing like class these
different things at efferent point, you know, like it kind

(20:22):
of worked out there. I love cut to It, and
I love it even more when you download us and
subscribe and you can follow us on social media too, Smithie,
where where at? That's at? Cut to It on Instagram?
What about Twitter? At? Cut to It? Facebook? Cut to

(20:45):
It featuring Steve Smith singr? What about online? And you
can follow us at cut to It podcast dot com
where you can buy merch and you can subscribe to
us wherever you listen to podcasts. I got all my answers, questions. Um,
I got all my questions answered. That's what I'm here for,
a brother cut to a podcast dot com. Bro. You

(21:08):
got all these degrees and went to college, but you're
doing sports? Yeah? How and why? Um? It's a couple
of things. So when I was in college, I started
like freelance writing about music and culture and stuff like that,
and I really enjoyed it. And when I got out
of college, the one thing I knew was that I

(21:28):
did not want to go to graduate school, and I
definitely did not want to study economics again. But I
remember study all of that. Yeah, it was it was
here's I go. So so, while I'm finishing my senior
year and I'm writing, I'm talking to this guy's a freelancer,
and I, you know, looked up to him. He was

(21:49):
far more experience than me. And he sent me an
email saying how excited he was because he had made
ten thousand dollars freelancing in the previous years doing his
taxes and he made ten I was in dollars, and
he was really excited about the fact that he made
ten thousand dollars doing it. And I said, wait a minute.
Four thousand dollars is an exciting figure for this freelance life.

(22:09):
Like if I made ten thousand dollars, maybe I should
be happy about it. I completely misunderstood what kind of
money was out there, and so I ain't know what
I was gonna do. But as a guy who owned
the magazine, I want to say in like Baltimore, he
hit me up and he was trying to start this
and he had all these like kind of Scott things.
He's gonna do for me and you know about paying it,

(22:31):
all this stuff, and I hadn't heard from him for
a while. To my home boys are going to d C.
And I said, look, I'm gonna ride up with y'all
and I'm gonna meeting this cat of all a hundred
dollars for my parents. I got in the car and
the dude stood me up. And I remember I was
at my home boys mama's house on the couch, my
head back to stressed because it's like August. I have
a degree and I had no play. What am I

(22:52):
going to do? And I get a phone call from
Clarenmont Graduate University and Claremont California and they're like, uh
so we essentially the emails about this fellowship, but uh
you never responded and now now I'm here to listen,
you know, tell me some more. And they got talking
and I said, I mean, I'm talking. I said, cool,

(23:14):
and I was like, okay, so this is I'm assuming
for the you know, for January, for the spring, and
they're like, no, this is for the fault. And I
called my parents. It was like, you know, can you
you know, can y'all get me there? And they did,
and so I got there, and my thinking was, Okay,
I want to do this writing thing, but I want

(23:35):
to get to like kind of like that public intellectual space,
right like the Michael Lary Dice and type of stuff.
And I realized there were no people who were no
black economists who were in that space, and I was like, okay,
so if I can become that dude, right, like, I
can use this to do that. And so it was
always really for the writing. And so the first degree

(23:56):
was great, like I really learned a lot just about
the end of played between politics and economics, which is
really helpful in sports with just the business of things,
and when the business of things becomes part of the
actual politics, like not like some Kaeperniic stuff, but like
stadium building stuff like you know, I understood and stuff
like that, and revenue shape exactly, like what's going on
with the commanders, how he's schanging that? Yeah, like that

(24:21):
that yeah. And so I kept going through school with it,
and after I've done that Masters, I was like, yeah,
I kind of dig this. I think I can do
a PhD. And then I started the PhD program. I
was like, I don't enjoy this at all, and it
doesn't enjoy me back, like, this is just a lot
of hard work, and I'm not as good at it
as I want to be. And I realized I had
a master's level of curiosity about that stuff, not a

(24:42):
PhD level of curiosity. And so when I left the
graduate program, I had established myself well enough as a writer.
And in the meantime, I had met the late grade
Ralph Wiley, and he had walked me up to ESPN
already and I was doing some stuff at them. So
when the school thing fell apart, ESPN happened to call them,
was like, look, we got some projects that we think

(25:03):
you might be interested in working on. It's like two
thousand five, And so I started working with them. And
that's so I used the school stuff actually all the time.
It's about the thought process, like it was the thing
I had when I got in the game. I didn't
have access, right, like I'm not in the locker rooms.
I can't talk about things on that level. So I
had to find how can I talk about sports in
a way that's fair to the people that I talked about,

(25:25):
but also unique and worthwhile. And so I started putting
big stuff together. He explain little stuff. Let me ask
you with that because I as an analyst, I struggled
with that. I struggled with it in my day to
day job because there are some people that I work
with and you you know, you've worked with people as well,

(25:46):
which at times the media, the media sometimes when the
reporter talks or beat writer, the fans have a belief
system that that beat writer has a good, bad, or
indifferent some type of relationship with that player or the

(26:08):
organ with that player that they're writing about. Would you say,
and I'm even learning nine times out of ten most
of the time they don't your eyes popping? What was that?
That was a yes? No? And I'm always but what
I was going with this? As an analysts, I'm always

(26:29):
interested as noticing that a lot of the some of
the people that I work with, and I work with
a number of people aren't They don't even go in
the locker room. They will be talking about things. They
didn't go to that training camp. They hadn't talked to anybody.
They may have had a five second conversation and looked

(26:52):
at you know and say, hey, this team is winning
and this is the reason why. So my question from that,
what do you think? Where do you think media and
the way media is reporting things. Now, where do you categorize?
I think that it's always important to recognize, like what

(27:14):
is and is not your lame right. So for me,
if somebody compares me to Stephen A. Smith, the one
thing I always point out is is Steven A. Smith
got thirty years and strikes on the ground that I
don't have because my life just went in a different direction,
you know what I mean, Like it just did. It
didn't go in that place. When Stephen A. Smith is
telling you he heard something, it means something different that

(27:35):
if I say I heard something, Like if I tell
you I heard something, I mean I just heard you
know what I mean, Like I'm just telling you, like yo,
it's a wild stuff like Steven. You know, Stephen A.
Smith tells you he heard something, you need to perk
up and you need to listen. Now. If I tell you,
all right, I know something that I am telling you,
like it ain't normally like that or whatever it is

(27:58):
at this time, like I talking about like you got
you're like, man, I was talking to somebody overheard something.
I was there hustling g and Steve told men you know,
or somebody or at this point you get on TV
long enough, the fish start jumping in the boat, like
people start calling you to tell you stuff, you know,
like like you don't have to go find him, no
more to you start finding you. There's been but there's

(28:19):
been times people have told me that, like told me information.
I'm like, I think this is a trick. I think
they're trying to see if I'm a snitch or not
knowing that happens. And I'm going, yeah, Dane, this is good.
I wonder should I say something. I don't know if
I should say something. Yeah, no, the answer is just
go get go. What's two people tell you? Let's see.

(28:42):
I'm still but I'm still stuck on the first person.
I'd be like, I think this is a trick. I'm
too busy in my yea, Oh no, you're right. But
then at that point it's like, yo, man, I know
you told me this, but like three four people don't
told you know what, like what people don't tell you
you know, like if it's just too But it's like, look, man,
somebody else told me to like you need to know
like this out here now, there ain't really nothing I
can do about it. I don't even get that far.

(29:03):
I'm in the beginning, I was so like I would
get the information. I'll go on my room. I'm in
a hotel room, and I don't know what should I
do write. I'll write it down and I never interact
with anybody else, and then I'm then I'm shook. So
now now I'm at training camp. I'm at training camp.
Do they know? I know that they know that's something's

(29:26):
about to go down. He didn't speak to me. He
knows I know. And then I leave and they go, Man,
do Steve really enjoy yourself? He didn't hardly talk to anybody.
I'm walking around, I'm walking around with their secret, but
it's I'm holding it like it's my secret. Yo. Reporting
is terrified. Like the couple of times that I've like

(29:48):
tried to break something, it's the most terrifying thing in
the world because somebody's gonna say you're not telling the truth.
Ye maybe they're lying, maybe they're not. Maybe the first
you talk to line. Maybe it all goes all over
the play. It's like there's a stomach for that particular
game that I acknowledge. I don't have. I don't you
know what I'm saying, Like like I see guys who

(30:11):
do that. But to your point thought about being on
the ground, it's a whole lot of people, like because
of my background, I'm a member of the media, but
I don't. I don't look at it. It's like I'm
a member of the tribe because I didn't come up
with these cats like on the ground in the same way.
Like there's a solidarity and that they kind of have
amongst each other. That yeah, right, there's no self criticism.
There's not enough self criticism in the emphasis emphasizing thieves.

(30:34):
But I think you don't. But I do think that
we as a group don't don't check each other enough
things unless it's time to, like, unless it's time to
like step on somebody's brave with something. But we don't
do that enough. And so there are a lot of
people who are in a position where you can cover
the NFL only talking to owners and agents, right It's honestly,

(30:55):
it's a lot of white people only talking to white
people right there, talking to the white ages that they know.
They're talking to the white executives that they know, the
white business managers or whatever it is, and that's where
all their information gets traffic. And then they are never
on the ground actually talking to players or the scouts
or guys that are role position coaches, right, and and

(31:17):
there guys that are the opposite. Right. Jay Blazer, for example,
we talk every Yeah, his game is on the Like
Jay Blaze is talking to dudes. He's talking to your
strength coach. He's talking to the dudes, nanny and and
the dog walker like he knows that he was walking
that dog and he had a limp. He's on the ground.
Even Money said earlier, and I'm glad you brought up

(31:38):
Like a lot of people don't realize Stephen, Ay Andy,
I know you spent some time in North Carolina. Stephen,
they went to win Salem State. He was working for
went to Salem Chronicle. He was covering high school football,
like he came up from them. And that's her struggle
because North Carolina high school football, like he's but everywhere
he's gone, everywhere he's gone, he's cultivated sources. So to
his point, like when he says something or was rooted

(32:00):
in fat because he's come from the bottom. But the problem,
they're also still on the ground twice a week. With
all that work that he does, he's still showing his
face in an arena twice a week. The part that
that's struggling though, it really is, as you do all
of that, you almost have to take a side you're

(32:23):
talking about, you know, white or black. It's like you
either pro player or pro front office, right, And there's
times like even with Stephen A, where he can talk
about things and the players are not happy in the

(32:44):
way he's talking, even though you know he's gonna talk
about the sideways anyway. Yeah, I am as interesting because
you're right, I don't think you necessarily have to have
to have side, but I'm transparent by me. I got
a side. My side is pro player. My side is
pro labor generally speaking, like it's always gonna be that

(33:05):
in part because somebody has to balance this out. Now.
I'm not gonna be unfair to management because I recognize
everybody got a job. You know, it's a bunch of
weird stuff. And I also get that from the perspective
of media, especially with football, the players are in and
out so much. The front office guys are going to
be there consistently, and so your game is probably gonna
be to try to work with the guy that you

(33:27):
know is gonna have a job for five years rather
than just dude, there might be a salary cap casualty
next year. It's peaky three of y'all. So you know,
there's so many people. The quarterback don't want to talk
to you. You gotta go through three people to get
the access to him. So it's not that I don't
get how it goes, but I do see people and
the way that they like root for the front office,
and I'm just kind of like, no, I wouldn't raise

(33:49):
like that. Man. I can't imagine doing the job like
this and not recognizing that if there's somebody who needs us,
it is the player more than the team. So that's
being said. The money, you've been able to really find
your niche. You You've talked about it being the intellectual
in sports, intersecting music, pop culture, socialty issues, race, all

(34:11):
these things. How are you comfortable in your own skin?
Why not? Like? The thing that honestly for me is
that you were talking earlier about like being younger and
whether you felt out of place. I don't know if
there's any like space that I'm in where I truly
feel like I'm in that place, Like I always feel

(34:33):
like there's some big difference between me and most people
that are in a room, no matter what the room
happens to be. But instead of feeling out of place
in all those rooms, it just feels like like like,
no matter what room I'm gonna be in, I'm gonna
be on some I'm gonna be off on something that's
different than a lot of people. Or or you may
just be getting there, or someone else in the room

(34:58):
makes a look or a comment that lets you know
if that you're not there yet. Yeah, but you know what, dope.
But the thing for me is, if it's always gonna
feel like that, then either I can trip out in
every room I'm in, or I can trip out in
none of the rooms. And so like I'll tell you this,
when I started with Around the Horn, not really with
the ESPN, but when I started doing Around the Horn
in the first time they called me, I made a decision.

(35:20):
I was like, I got two choices. I can go
about this like, man, I hope they called me back,
or I can go about this as well. I got
one chance, let's just have a ball, and I went
with number two and they wanted that back right. But
like before, I came back to ESPN full time I
had said that I wanted to work at places and
established who I was and what I did so that

(35:42):
whoever hired me next that could be hiring me to
do what they did. You knew you were hiring me
to be bits and once I did that, man, it's
just like what you're gonna do? Be man? Okay, that happens. Yeah,
but then get you on the principal's office a few times.
And so my flip on, my flip, my flip on
a good at staying out of the prison. I'm so

(36:05):
my flip on that was gonna be how you deal
with the haters, because, like you said, when you show
up and you'd be unapologetically you sometimes that pisses people. Also.
Then on the flip side, how do you deal with
the haters? There are so many people in this world
that I like them and that I dislike for no
good reason. I just don't like them. Life. It happens
like not everybody's going like what I do. And we

(36:26):
all know this from a very simple example. What percentage
of your home boys that rap actually made good rap music?
M that's still your man. He just can't wrap. And
so you don't think if you don't think I can wrap,
whether I know you or not. Okay, cool, you don't

(36:47):
think I can wrap. But but if I got people
who do think I can wrap, then I'm gonna wrap
for them. Yes, yes, man, you know, but I think
but no. But I think. The other thing though, is
that those people don't know me. I'm not even a
person to Steve, I said, you know this as press
last as you realize when people screaming at you, they

(37:07):
don't think you're a person. They just think that you
do like to do in the video game, and they
just think that I'm like a dude on the screen
and you could throw something at the screen and they
don't hit the person, right, They're not thinking about me
in that way like what I do on TV. I've
had someone actually on Thursday night throw something at us

(37:29):
on on and um, I might switch one off. Oh,
I would imagine, so personally know it wasn't anything. It
was bear on my suit. Oh so that's not that's
someone who doesn't google the camera. The camera panned off

(37:53):
because they hit me. And you know, when you get hit,
it's a delay reous you know, like when you're a kid,
you put your hand on the stove and it's it's like,
I think this is this is hot. That director does
not get enough credit for their choice that day. Oh yeah,
I saw it and they and I was like, it
was like you look on your phone and you go,
somebody stole money out of my account. Right, It's you're

(38:17):
like you're registering it, but it's just not gathering. It
was like it ain't raining. Whoa and it was camera
and I just looked back like yo, and I know
I'm growing because I was like, man, I hope this

(38:38):
comes out of my suit. That was the first thing
I was thinking about it. Then the second thing was
are they trying me today? You always have to have
that self question. Yeah, that self question in my rest case,
do they not know if I take this jacket off,
I got this stretch underneath, and it's it's just it's

(38:58):
amazing me personally. I I used to when I first
started meeting, I struggled with the haters because they all
tell you're dumb. Well to this day and I could
joke about it. Oh, he can't speak. He's the worst
analysts NFL network has. Well one, Um, I can't speak.

(39:21):
I'm lazy and that's why sometimes I get in trouble
at the house because I curse, right, So I'm lazy
with my tongue. But I know for a fact I'm
not the worst. I know I'm not at least I
know at least there's two other people worse than me.
But you don't happen with me, though, And where I

(39:43):
got lucky was that, like with with because Twitter and
all that has increased the access we give haters. And
so I got on Twitter in two thousand nine, and
I was doing local radio, and so as my following
is building, I'm now like getting it into in spaces.
So then I started doing around the horn. And what
I noticed is when I started doing around before and

(40:06):
the people who were didn't like me, they were a
lot meaner than they had been before. And I was
saying the same stuff, and so I was like, oh,
wait a minute, this is just about the fact that
I'm on TV and this person screams, and whoever's on TV,
that's what they do. And so that gradually builds it.
So because I was becoming more famous and all of

(40:27):
this stuff also as a thirty something year old man,
so I was an adult, you know, as it was happening,
I was able to watch Animated Abundant in the clear. Oh,
this has nothing to do with me personally, because doesn't
have very much to do with my actual work. This
is just what people do. And so there ain't nothing
nobody gonna get on damn Internet and say to me
and really have me taking it personally because I know

(40:48):
these people don't actually know me, and I do know
I'm good at this. Like you might not like it,
and that's cool, but it ain't never gonna be a
day I can't get somebody to pay thee to talk.
I may not be able to give to pay the
millions of dollars, but there's always always gonna pay me
to talk. That I will be just fine. Yah. We
don't need a lot, just one. I don't don't even

(41:12):
need a direct deposit. It's not yes, it's a direct deposit.
Like like Steve, you think about this. It's dudes in
the league that coaches like way more than fans, right,
like somebody that keep on getting the job and fans
are like, I just don't understand it. And somebody's like,
you don't understand he occupies two gaps at one time, right,

(41:34):
and so like they don't take a fan vote before
they put dudes on rosters, right, And so it's the
people there. And I've always been lucky that like people
who made decisions have rocked with what I did. And so,
you know, the public is a little fickle, but people
know talent when they see challenging and they know who
does jobs when they do jobs. And so people who
don't like me, I focus on the people who do

(41:55):
like We have a great time together. The people who
do like it. Good, let's getting down do it? Hey, Gerard,
why did you get that T shirt? Oh? Yes, I
got it from cut to a podcast dot com where
we have exclusive merchandise. Shout out to our guys at
seven or four shot. But yeah, you can go on,

(42:16):
buy you a T shirt, subscribe to us wherever you
listen to podcasts. With all the knowledge and everything you
went through. Why are you in front of the camera
versus being behind the camera, Well, right now, I'm like
doing Game Theory is the first time I've had the chance,

(42:36):
which is super dope. Yeah, like the dynamic of the
ESPN ain't a lot of people also producing their shows. Yeah,
Game Theory ain't nothing going up without it being run
past me. And it was right there. But it was
a trip though, because when the first like the show
has to be your show, in your vision, and I

(42:57):
was like, I've been so used to doing show. There
was somebody else's vision. I didn't even have one, Like
it took me months to figure out like what I
wanted to show to look like to the point where
now we just did our fourth episode and it's so
clear to me now, Like when I hear something, I'm like, Nope,
that don't sound like us. Nope, that's not you know,
the way that I want to go about it. I
got like the corner office with impost didn't you and

(43:20):
all that, and I do, but I could mean my
thought is if this is the last television project I
ever do, I'm fine, Like it's that it's that good
of the gig, like I I don't know how what
else I would do. And then past that, I'm now
at the point where I know enough to then make
that move behind camera because the truth is man being

(43:42):
all camera, there is a measure of like prostituting yourself
like you are the product and that gets all you
have to say it like that and you know, but
it's like different types, there's different types. You know, we're
classy with it, but in the end, it doesn't always
feel good when you are the product, Like when I
be out there later a night on the street shoots
and I want to go home, except you can't get

(44:02):
done without me because I am a product, you know,
Like I don't know. So now that you're sitting in
at what gap do you see that you field with
game theory? So what I think has happened with game
theory is and I tell this story that when they
called me to do the show, I looked at the
deck and it was a very light, straight ahead comedy

(44:24):
sort of thing that was just gonna be about sports,
and that's not me, Like I'm funny, but I'm not
a comedian. And so I looked at the deck and
I told him, I said, look around, this deck doesn't
work for me. But I am literally the only person
who could host this show and didn't have a chance
to be successful. And my explanation was, you can't just

(44:45):
put somebody up telling jokes about sports. People take this
stuff seriously, right, like like they like they don't people
get forced yes, like they needed they need somebody whose
opinion they respect up there, not somebody they think it's funny. Okay,
So once you find that person, you need somebody that
can drive the content that you want to do. And
I was like, I don't see anybody else in this

(45:06):
space that can do it for you that way. But
I made it clear, we can't. We can't try to
make me into a comedian, right. What we need to
do is take what I do and figure out how
to maybe make it funnier and bring it to life.
But we can't make me into a comedian. So what
we got now is we found a good, comfortable space
where there are big issues in sports. And I don't

(45:28):
mean like big like controversial. I just mean big, like
the scope of them is Lord. So our first episode
was about Coach K's legacy. The second I watched man,
I watched the Coach Coach K one and at first
I was like, oh, you're like, where is this coming
from and why and how? And then obviously doing your researchers,
like I went to North Carolina right so and and

(45:51):
I can understand it. But also the clips in which
how you categorize saying America's team, and how you put
it against Duke versus George Town and how the announcers
are talking and it's so crazy. But yet things like
that happened every single day. They was happening in the eighties.

(46:14):
It's happening in where we'll see it, and we see
it now. Less is more in football, be quarterback play, right,
exactly what we'll we'll talk about limiting someone's throwing but
yet paying them forty five million dollars. Right, And and
we're talking about, um, how a guy processes and how

(46:38):
a guy doesn't process and how uh the key word?
And it's funny as you know, doing television and talking
about and talking. I've told them the lingo of athletic
and high motor and what those code words are. Right,
have you ever heard of at the the the high
motor guy, Like the high motor guy is not a

(46:58):
black guy, right? Right. It's funny because the highest motor
guy that I been me and you could think of
off the top of my head was a black dude
exactly a high angry motor. Right. But yet the the
defensive player who has a high motor he has technique,

(47:20):
but he lacks athleticism. So he has a ton of energy.
High motor guy that brings the consistency and then, but
the code word for a black guy is mobility, mobile
and strong. Right that that that's it. Intellect is never

(47:41):
thrown in there, right, Intellect is never thrown in there, especially,
I feel like to some degree, as you know black
athletes and then you if you're an athlete, which I
hear a lot of times, and for myself is I
sat on it, which is athletes are dumb. People who

(48:04):
are in sports are dumb. And most of my career
I kind of play to that narrative, right, the angry guy.
And then I started realizing, like, no, I can't. I
am actually pretty smart, and I need to stop playing
into that narrative because now they're starting to write articles
and trying in the narrative and my behavior is giving

(48:26):
them that narrative to go, yeah, he is dumb. He
he is a hot hair without any intellect. He doesn't think.
And and so trying to change that narrative and go
through it for for for athletes is tough. But then
you bring it back full circles, your snips and how
you put piece that together, it's bananas to me. Indeed,

(48:53):
hold up, we come behind it with a real live
black history. Yes, bro, that was say that was real
and those people were not actors, the people those were
raw reactions. Yeah, yeah, those are real reactions. Here's what
here's why I thought it was not it was it
wasn't real. My man that said Nashburn that he he

(49:17):
in high school with jam it was real. Yeah, But
at first I was kind of like, yeah, now get
you know Jabal from up here, Jabal Harlow, I'm talking
about the guy who was tall. That was just that
was just pure coincidence. Like the thing about Flint that
was like all that stuff that we had there. We
just brought people in and they walked through and like

(49:39):
so for me, you asked what space and were feeling?
Ain't nobody else doing this right? Like I've done the
high minded ideas that I always have, but I've also
always been out here kicking it with this stuff that
I'm doing. And so we're gonna take bigger things and
bring them the eye level where people can understand, because
it's not a matter of showing you how smart I am.
Nobody cares about that. They care about what that spart

(49:59):
can do for So let's take these smart ideas, let's
bring them right to people, and let's kick it and
have fun. Like we got raw on our tests to
do a video about a fake commercial about treasury bonds
as a comparison to all the crypto advertisements. Like that's
the kind of stuff that we make it happen. Right now.
What I love about is basically with the with the comedy,

(50:21):
you basically are saying, hey, if it's too much comedy,
it's gonna be surface. But if you allow me to, yes,
stow my spin on it and and look at it,
you start to you start to get to the core,
the root and that and that's really the show is.
It's about the it's no longer surfacing, it's it's straight
to the core and the root of sports. And also

(50:43):
how how sports looks at everyone. It's the it's the
sports is the microcosm, right of the real life issues.
So you bring into life the life issues. And like
you're talking about, what is the nuance in the language
in black athlete versus white athlete. You can take that
same thing out and you put it in corporate America,
you can put in education, and you can put it
in whatever else. And now we're have you having higher

(51:06):
level conversation that's rooted from sports and the polarization of sports.
But you can take it and talk about that same
stuff in any place in life. The only problem is
that a lot of sports people and the sponsors they
want to check out, and I think that hard. They
don't want to really do that much work. Intellectually. They

(51:27):
want to be able to have a beer, eat a
hot dog, and watch their team play. They don't want
to hear about all the other stuff. And sometimes they
don't really care what physical uh setbacks individuals have. If
you're on the playing field, you're healthy, play, don't nobody
want to hear about it. Correct, and so over here though,

(51:52):
we got the space to get to the other stuff.
But also, and I think it's part as important. I
don't blame people. It's sometimes they don't feel like the
heavy stuff, right, get it? And so when you give
them that stuff, you just gotta be really good at
you know what I mean, Like it doesn't matter. We
gotta figure out how to get the points across that
we want to. But people are gonna watch that show.

(52:14):
If it's fun, it's a good time, they'll watch it. Right.
If they don't make them feel good, they're not gonna
watch it. So they're coming for the emotional time. Yeah,
what's wrong with sports what's wrong with sports media? There?
I think the thing with sports media is, to be
fair to them, is it is a demand driven business.

(52:34):
In part where I think I think most media entities
believe they are giving fans the coverage that they want.
They've done research, they figured this. They think they're giving
fans the coverage that they want. Um. I think part
of what's happened is the revenue models are so messed
up for these publications that they don't have the money
to cover sports properly like they used to. Like it's

(52:56):
not as many people who are on the ground with
the team, is not as many people who can write
like the features and the enterprise stories, and the people
who do write them can't give them the care and
dedication they deserve because there's just not the money to
pay people to do all of those things. You know,
Like there's there's a lot of like profit minded stuff
that's a problem with sports media. But I think what's
good about sports media we have at this point maybe

(53:21):
like the smartest group of sports writers that we've ever had,
the most knowledgeable, and they know more things about the
world because when you're a sports writer, and you get
any young, the world you know is the locker room.
The world you know is the field. You don't have
a chance Like I got lucky. I got to spend
my early twenty's studying all this stuff. These guys were
studying the game, right, so I learned from them about

(53:43):
the game. But when it's time to make bigger connections,
it's not always as easy for them because they have
to dedicate their lives to do with something, you know,
something much different than that. But now I think people
are coming in with broader knowledge, and if they try to,
they'll know the players better, they'll know all this other
stuff there because they should be able to incorporate so
much more into their coverage. But the thing that's most wrong,

(54:07):
I guess always is going to be a lack of
respect for the humanity of the players. Is the hardest
thing for media to do is to see players as people. Yeah,
and then they get offended when the players start to
look at the media. Was that media does That also
resonate with fans too, because it almost goes back to
your port. Yeah, that's the part that you said, how
do you how do you address the guy who says
keep the keep those societal debates out of my sports.

(54:31):
How do you deal with that person too? I mean
that person that person generally, um, they're buying a ticket,
right when sometimes the person who's banging aloud as drum
is buying the chief ticket and the person who may
disagree with it but probably is not gonna say anything.

(54:52):
It's a huge sponsor, and they will have those meetings
after the season. They will talk to the owners and
kind of say or the organization like, you know, we're
really about all lives from there and we like it.
But me, you know, well we got we got this
to do. But now you deal to people you can't
deal with, Like That's the one thing about it is

(55:14):
sometimes people are not gonna like what you're saying. That's fine, right,
you you work with the people that you can work with.
But I just I would just like from my colleagues,
respecting the people they covered is so much more important.
Like I always tell the story, Uh I think it was.
Rick Riley once wrote to column of Sports Illustrated, and
it was about all the players in the locker room

(55:35):
that he said, like to show off the penises, right,
Like he said, they were so proud of them and died.
I died, And I remember I was reading the story
and he gave an example of one player, and I
think I won't name him because I cant remember exactly
appreciate that. Yeah, it's a Hall of Famer. And the
dude apparently turned around at his locker and stood up
and put his foot on a stoop and let his

(55:57):
towel drop and then answer the questions. I read the
story and I realized, you have no idea what's going
on here. This dude is tired of y'all trying to
look at it on the sneak. And he finally said, fine, fowl,
you want to see it, bo, this is what it is,
because Steve, you know them dudes that's walking around in
the locker room looking at these cats like a little

(56:18):
weird about all that stuff that's not respecting to people
that you cover. And the resentments that players have towards
media is often justified because it's not about what you write,
it's about how you treat them in in writing an article.
And and I know you got to go soon, but
one of the interesting things that I've found out, and

(56:39):
even doing media myself, how many people, how many media
guys are walking up to me asking me to as
an analyst, as another media guy, and during an interview
with me to give them the research and doing their job.
I'm kind of like I want now I'm saying, I'm

(56:59):
only to do jobs and then alshow during interview with
someone who has done their research, if they have not
done their research, catch get me when you've done your research,
so you don't spend extra extra time out of my day,
out of my calendar, catching you up on something that

(57:21):
you get, you feed your family with. You supposed to
already know this stuff, You feed your family with this,
and you're asking me to do your job. I need
to get some of that stipend right being a bear.
So man, we appreciate your time. Bro, We're gonna have
to reciprocate this. Bro, You're funny as hell. Doc, I'm

(57:43):
trying to keep up a job. Man. Look, I'm still
trying to image somebody for a beer on you like
it was it was it was, Hey, I conducted myself.
I'm conducted myself with I just I mean, I'm proud
of you for doing that, but to assume that that
was what you were going to do is bo Hey
bo this, this is Joe. So I wasn't there, so

(58:04):
as soon as it happened, he stood up and his
jacket started coming off. They cut to Canberra four and
then everybody. Everybody's texting me like, oh, I don't know
what's about to happen, but he was a hot man.
I took my jacket off actually to see how bad
it was. I did not take it off to jump
in the crap. That's what you took it off, like, Steve,

(58:25):
I think of you like I think a ghost face, right,
like how ghost faces really funny? But I want to
make sure that he was trying to be funny before
I last s. We all want the same page, like, okay,
that was atend to kid joke. I don't want to
expect you. I just thought this is funny. I just
want to keep it on the level. I was like, oh,
he's really joking everything. I was like, here cool, I laughed.

(58:47):
Temperature checker check. I'll tell you this man the COVID
And also, you know, my family at home really have
made have said some things to me. Let me I'll
say this. Have you ever took an emotional ass whooping? Yeah? Yeah,
that's what I'm getting at the house well deserved right

(59:10):
having conversations and asking questions and allowing them to be truthful.
And I could tell you being a being an athlete,
any kind of any kind of success creates an ego,
and then that ego you hate to do it. But
if you want to grow and improve, taking and getting

(59:32):
a pole of which you know is gonna happen, which
is you know how many times I've been married my
wife twent two years, bro four kids. You know how
many times you stepped on the emotional land mine or
you screw something up, But sitting down asking it's tough, right,
and and but yet it's healthy. But also it's like,

(59:53):
you know what, I can hear what they say, and
I can walk away upset and piste off and mad,
or I can change it. Because ultimately, when you get married,
when you're in a relationship, not you yet, but when
you get there, the whole purposes you. You don't want
to die along. You don't want to be sitting in
your rocketing chair, drinking whatever you're drinking, puffing on whatever

(01:00:17):
you're puffing on, by yourself at the remainder, the remainding
days of your life. You want to do it with
someone that at the end of the day, and I
know this probably isn't man somebody you fox with, and
my wife is that person. We're different. We're literally different.
We are a total opposite. I'm Carmel, She's she's Vanilla. Right.

(01:00:39):
I grew up in l a and the inner City
and she grew up in Utah. So we're so totally different.
That's sitting there, and that different perspective sometimes makes such
of the greatest conversations and and and so it's been
awesome and I want to have that as I continue
to get older, to where when when life can lately

(01:01:00):
slows down, we can look backwards and laugh. But I
gotta earn their trust to say, hey, that is worth
rehashing and going backwards on some of the things that
he has said or done um intentionally, unintentionally, conscious, unconsciously,
and is he is he want to hear. And That's
what I've been going through. And so I it's been

(01:01:22):
good and it's bad. But at the end of it,
you know, I get to be myself. And this this
podcast and some of other stuff I'm doing the media,
is I'm being myself? Yeah. Every so often I'll catch
somebody catch catch a little fire when you throw something
on man, I'm gonna give you a little look now,
but ultimately manness just learning myself, you know, and and
and and breaking down my own um my own safeguards,

(01:01:44):
right and just kind of showing people I am goofy,
I am silly, and this is who I am. I
respect you on that man like like on it as
a public is spelled like I mean, necessarily like that
all we all got to look back at who we
are sometimes, you know, And that's because that's what I
mean to get better at this. Like, one of the
things I've learned about athletes in my media travels that's

(01:02:05):
been interesting is self improvement or just generally like the
willingness to improve and to hear hard things is like
I think, I think I find for athletes generally something
they're better at than my other colleagues. But it's still
a hall ball game when it's like, now I'm gonna
take this to me, not this thing I'm doing, but
this person I am these things right and as a

(01:02:27):
would you win in the end, You always do if
you stay with it long enough, you win. And yes, yeah, yeah,
it's a little whack at the beginning, well, appreciate your dog.
Thank you man. You guys, I'm going with you too.
You are a unique person, you are well worth it,

(01:02:48):
you are competent, and most of all, your lovable. I'm
Steve Smith Singer, I'm Gerard Little John and this just
cut to It. Cut to It with Steve Smith Singer.
That Is Me is a production of Cut to It LLC,
Balto Creative Media, The Black Effect and I Heart Radio.

(01:03:12):
For more podcast from I Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows from Cut to It. Executive producer Steve Smith, Singer,
co host Gerard Little John, talent in booking manager Joe Fusci,
social media teamer Wesley Robinson and John show from Balto

(01:03:34):
Creative Media. Cut to It is produced by Brian Baltaschevitch
and Meredith Carter, with production assistance by Alex Lebrek, Production
Coordinator Taylor Robinson. Theme music by Alex Johnson, Lyrics and
vocals by Anthony Hamilton. You ain't heard about it, then
we're about to let you know. It's all there is,

(01:04:00):
nons