Ep. 146: Elk Calling with Chris Cabral

Chris Cabral is an accomplished lifelong elk hunter and hunting guide. This week Dirk picks Chris' brain on trail cams, locating bulls, calling bulls, and late season rifle elk hunting tactics.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
And we're back to another episode of Cutting the Distance Podcast.
I'm Dirk Durham, and today's show I have Chris Cabral.
You guys might remember Chris from a show earlier this spring.
We talked about bear baiting and Chad Antler hunting. Chris
runs Russell Pond Outfitters in North Idaho, and I just
want to say welcome to the show, Chris.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Hi. How's it going, dude?

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Good? Good? Good? How much now that bear season's over
and you finally get a break? How many bears did
you guys get this spring?

Speaker 2 (00:44):
I think we ended up with thirty seven spring bears total,
not counting wounded our mess those just kills.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Okay, that's pretty impressive. That's a lot of bears.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, for sure. We do pretty good on bears in
the spring.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yeah. Man, that's got to help the elk.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Yeah for sure. There's no question. You can just tell
when you bring those big bores in in June which
ones are the elk caveaters. Every time we got one,
we open up the stomachs and you can tell which
ones I've been calving.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, he got some pretty good ones too.
This spring seems like.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Some Yeah, on average, we killed a lot over six foot,
which is a really good spring. Oh, almost every single
one was bores, maybe a couple soles. Was all total wow.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Wow. Well then it looked like you're you got done
hunting and you start putting up some hay. That's always fun.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah, straight from bear season to the hayfield. But I
thought i'd get so forth to dry off, but that
didn't happen this year.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Man's been so dry.

Speaker 2 (01:44):
I was worried that, hey, we're gonna get burnt.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's always funny the fourth of July,
it's like everybody haze and it's like it's always kind
of a crapshoot because it seems like there's always a
little storm that sneaks in and about the time you
get your hay on the ground, my dad, farmers are
going to get their hay washed this time and dang it,

(02:09):
but it looks like you lucked out.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
Huh yeah, I did a little bird.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Now. Some of our listeners may ask why do you
Interviete Why do you interview guides and outfitters, And I
think it's a pretty simple answer. These guys do this
for a living. They hunt they're in the woods probably
more than anybody. You know, they're up there with loggers
as far as spending time in woods every day, but
they spend a lot of time in the woods, and

(02:36):
I arguably think it'd be hard to find somebody else
that that has this much time in the woods and
hunting experience. So, you know, I I like to get
outfitters and guides on here just to pick your brains on.
You know, what, what what you're doing, what are your
what's your little secrets letter? How do you do it?

(02:56):
And you know, I've been doing this a long time,
but I'm I'm I'm a student of elk hunting. I'm
always I'm always looking for for more information and I
feel like about the time I think I got it
figured out, than the elk proved me wrong. So anyway,
that's uh, that's why I get I bring these outfitters

(03:17):
and guides on because I just really like to hear
here what what they're doing and how they do it.
You run a pretty strong camera game trail cams. Is
there anything that stands out monitoring elk for all these years?
Have you noticed like some some little cool things, some
little nuances that maybe kind of surprised you before you

(03:39):
really start kind of keying in on your.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Cameras, you know, not really, you know, I try to
are where I hunt. It seems pretty consistent every year
as far as where the elk are moving and the
you know, the walls I put my cameras on. In
the game trails, what we have seen is a lot
less ridge top running than we used to see because
of predators. We go so many wolves and cats in

(04:01):
areas now. Elk don't like to be on the ridge
tops anymore, hang on the ridgetops as much as they
used to. When they come over the top, it seems
like they you know, go back down into where they
can you know, have poorly winds and really keep a
track of the predator. They definitely don't bed You find
way less beds on the ridge stops now than he
used to. And I've noticed that, so a lot of

(04:23):
your ridgetop cameras aren't producing like they used to, you know.
Fifteen twenty Yuvo.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
Yeah, Yeah, that's that's an excellent point. What do you
think about like meadows too, like meadowy areas are do
you think they're elker avoiding those two?

Speaker 2 (04:38):
I do? I do I think it depends on the
size of meta. Of course, I can't really say so
much meadows as burns. We have a lot of prescribed
burns where I hunt, and man, the wolves really run
the burns are as soon as those blowdowns are cleaned
up by fire, the windfalls are cleaned up. They don't
want to be out there because the wolves can catch
them out there. You know, they're they're using the blowdowns

(04:59):
and the brush, which they've always use the brush for protection,
but now they use the windfalls to stay away from
the predators and really noticeable where I hut.

Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yeah, yeah, I'm glad you're saying these things. These are
the same thing kind of things I'm kind of noticing too.
Like you say, the ridgetops, like the old trails that
were there. Man, you'd almost say there hadn't been an
elk there in twenty years. You know, there's no there's
no sign, there's no there's no scat, there's no elk tracks.
But like you say, you get off on the sides.
You know, a lot of the places I find elk

(05:31):
seems like, you know, especially if the road system's on top,
you know, and and and maybe it don't matter where
the road system is, but that bottom one third of
the the drainage, that that halfway down to bottom one third,
it seemed like the elk. I'm really finding elk in
those kind of places. Yeah, go ahead, I'm sorry, I
gonna say. I think it's back to your point of

(05:52):
like using the winds and the swirling winds and stuff like,
like elk can really take advantage of those predators running
those ridge tops.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Yeah, and I think they really use the water where
we are. They say that bottom third on the on
the river bank to the creek beds and then they
can just shoot across, run down the kirk, do whatever
they need to do to get you know, fortible to
lose their trail, you know. And I think and I
think honestly fishermen too, uh you know, they're out there
all summer fifth in these rivers. I think the elk

(06:19):
hang out down by the fishermen because there's that maney
less woolves, the old the lot of the fishermen. And
we've seen a lot of that way where in the
last few years.

Speaker 1 (06:28):
Yeah, yeah, I believe it. I've you know, it seems
like a lot of area, especially north central Idaho, North
Idaho you're starting to see more and more elk close to town. Yeah,
like like right out of right out of city limits
and just right out, you know, the first five to
ten miles out of town. Then elker seemed to be

(06:49):
hanging around because I think they feel safe from predators there.

Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah. I definitely notice it with the fishermen later, because
you got all the five fishermen out of staters with
their dogs bark and and just came mp and along
the river. I mean those elk are hanging right down
there by both people, for sure, There's no doubt about it.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah. Do you ever get bulls on your cam that
just kind of appear out of nowhere and you're like,
where the heck did that guy come from? I've never
seen him before.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Yeah. Actually, way more often than you think. And it'll
you know, sometimes it's five to ten years before you'll
get another picture of that same bull. But I save everything,
I keep track of it. You out label everything, so
I really pay attention to bulls over a ten year period,
not just a couple of year period. You know, you
really got to pay attention to the old picks to
keep track of them, because you know, it is where

(07:36):
we are they don't change drastically. A lot of times
with the mature bulls, you know, they might have a
picker here there that throws you off, and it makes
you think of the different bowl, and you really got
to look for signs. Like I have certain bulls I
keep track of because they have a ripped ready or
a knock on their left ear, and a lot of
times you pay attention to that stuff too, and then
you know I've had I have bulls for a fact,
I know for a fact that are over twenty on camera.

(07:59):
Hole lot of them, a lot of them, but there's
a few that I know over twenty years old.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Yeah. Do you see them things regressing after a certain point,
like they used to be a giant and then they
just start like not growing a big a rack.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, we see that a lot. But what's crazy is
it can just be a hard winter that regresses. They'll
drop twenty inches that year, then have an easy winner
into right back up to three thirty or something like that.
So you see it, you think that you're loving them.
One year you're like, oh no, no, you know, he
doesn't score anything, and then the next year you have
an easy winner and they have a lot of you know,
good feed, and he's back up to the size he

(08:35):
was the year before. So it's kind of deceiving. They
go up and down a lot where depending on the winter.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
Yeah, I think a lot of that seems like that
North Country maybe it seems like you those bulls don't
start hitting their potential till they get pretty damn old,
like they're eight ten years old. You know, it's just
my opinion. I don't have anything to back it up,
but man, they started getting that eight ten years old.
It looks they look like a freaking bulldozer right there.

(09:03):
Their bodies just keep getting bigger and bigger, their racks
get like now they're starting to grow some friacking handlers.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, when you know their neck and head, when they
look like they're nine hundred pounds, you know, a thousand
pounds their neck and their head, you know, compared to
a you know, immature six point it's a totally different animal.
It's on the bodies, we get what.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
Yeah, it's amazing. Do you do you have some cams that, like,
all summer long, you've got cows on them, and then
you got your cut your your cams that have bachelor
balls all summer and then like August fifth, or eighth
or tenth, somewhere in that first part of August, those
bulls shed their velvet. You see a couple shed, and

(09:45):
then you don't see another bull on that camera for months,
you know, a couple of months, and then they show
up with the cows.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, it seems like they do. They take a walk,
you see the end of August, August twenty seventh to September. Second,
they'll take a walk and then you'll catch them on
a different camera with a cow or so. And then
you'll catch them ten miles away on a different camera
back by themselves. The next thing, though, they got a
hair them right back where they started here.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
I go, wow, that's that's so crazy. How much how
much ground they can they can cover. I know guys
that are like down in you know, not just North Idaho,
like Southeast Idaho. You know, one guy I know was
had a giant on his camera for a few years
and that thing would always disappear and he's just like, man,
where's that thing going. Well, he got talking to some

(10:32):
guy from Utah. He's like, yeah, you have been getting
this big bullet or a camera and like they're like
twenty miles away from each other air miles and he's like,
that's the one that's been disappearing in Idaho. On me,
he's like, nothing's changing states.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
So all right, I'm on the Montana border. So I
deal with that all the time. A lot of my
big ones go over to Montana for rut and don't
see him till after season. Again, there were vice versa
Montana bulb will show up, you know, the new ones
you've never seen, and then go back after.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
That's crazy. So you have some pretty big, nasty country.
How are you locating bulls and then targeting them in
September out? I have an idea, but let's let's kind
of break that down for our listeners, Like, you know,
where do you even start? Like what what's your thought
process there?

Speaker 2 (11:19):
So for me early season especially, I do a lot
more glass and obviously than bugle and to locate, and
I do a lot of glasses in August early mornings
and Rick before dark, and I try to have you know,
most of the patterns of them, you know, late August
where to hang. I try to keep track of that,

(11:39):
and I do a lot of glassing room season, and
I just try to get in close autumn and I'm
not calling like crazy. I like that first week of September. Obviously,
that's the only time I get the hunts that I'm
guiding the rest of the season. But I always like it.
I like to be the first person to call it
a bowl. I think, you know, with any big mature bull,
like I'm trying to haunt, you know, you kind of

(12:00):
only had one mess up early season and they win
you or something doesn't go right, and I feel like
a lot of times those twelve the you know, eighteen
year old bulls are educated for the season. After that,
I feel like you get that one good chance stuff
first week of September, and if you can make that
happens bulls.

Speaker 1 (12:16):
Yeah. Do you think that bulls are getting more call
shy every year?

Speaker 2 (12:22):
I did. I mean I have dealt with call shy
oak my whole life since I started because of wolves.
I do think we're you know, certain other units that
are more pressured. Yes, they're definitely getting more call shy,
but I think where I am, it's more predator thing
than it. There's people, honestly.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Sure, yeah you're pretty remote.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Yeah, they're uh, you know, they're they're tight lipped. But
once you're in closed, they're not crazy call shy. You know,
they're not used to people like.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
A lot of units, right do you do? You So
basically sometimes you'll be across the drange and you'll bugle
and they're like, no, I'm not answering. But you walk
across that draine and you get on, you know, mix
it up. You know, you walk within a hundred two
hundred yards of them, they'll crack off and then you
can play him from there.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Yeah. I really know where their betting ground is. Obviously.
It all comes to just scouting and in the same
area for years and years, and I just I don't
go in there betting, you know, and blow him out.
I just get on the outskirts of it. And you know,
that's where I do my calling. If if I'm going
to work a bowler, you know, I know he he's uh,
you know, the the chance of calling him man, I
try to get just close man and my you know,

(13:32):
I practiced call him my all life. I think I'm
a decent caller, but I think every all of my
success is kind of attributed to my setup, you know,
making sure the winds good and having the customer in
the right position as everything. You know, they're not like
us at the elk kind of their whole life. I
know where to be and when to be there, so
I you know, I try to get my hunter in position,

(13:52):
my shooter and position, and then I run around him essentially,
you know, to make it work.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's super important. I think a lot
of our a lot of our listeners, well from a
lot of folks I talk to every year, they're like,
you know, I get bulls bugling really good. They come in,
they hang up, and then just I never can't go
from there, get them, get them past there. So, man,
with a having a hunter, especially maybe a not experienced

(14:20):
elk hunter, you know, set up coming in, you know,
waiting for a bull to come in, that's got to
be tough. So kind of what are some of those
things you're looking for when you set set your hunter up,
and what do you tell them? What? What? What's the conversation?

Speaker 2 (14:33):
Number one thing obviously is to never try to draw
while they're you know, looking at you. That's the number
one thing I got to tell my people. And not
hold back too long either, always waiting till the bull
gets the twenty broadside staring looking for me, you know,
before they're trying to draw. That's a big thing. Obviously,
stay out of the sunshine. You see these guys all
the time. They go to the one open jackpne wide

(14:55):
open wood sunshine, and you know, and the bull's coming
out of the shade, you know, definitely, you know they
are out of the sunlight. The bet you can, you
can get away with so much more. I'm fortunate now
I have enough repeat clients. You know, they're helped with
me a couple of years. They learned kind of the
system and they you know, we kind of will do
hand signals. You know, we get a little better, you know,

(15:17):
getting them, you know, to cut the distance and be
in their clothes. But a lot of guys, I think too,
they try to get to where they're in too much cover.
And they came and picked their bow up with limb,
you know, the limbs are moving and then both see
that a lot of time too, So I try to
make sure that they you know, can pick their bow
up without moving brush and everything else too. Brush is

(15:39):
the hard part where I am, you know, just getting
a tunnel to couture. A lot of times you use
the old thing you got.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
Yeah, yeah, I got. I got a ten yard shooting
line here and it's pretty crappy, and I got a
five yard and he's gonna have to step on me
if I'm gonna shoot this pole.

Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, And I mean I'll tell a lot of my
customers when they're booking a hot this is not wide
open like New Mexico. You know, there are times where
you just got to take a chance, you know. There
it's hard to get that perfect quartered away broadside, no brush,
no you know anything, And I just oh.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah, oh yeah. Do you do you find that the
elk that those they're call shy in the predator country?
Do you you find that they'll sometimes answer maybe a
little maybe at a distance, but it's like quieter, or
maybe they're as you start talking to them, they're like
real quiet, and then as you work them, you know,
they kind of open up.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
But yeah, I agree that I do think that's a
big A lot of times you'll just get that that girl,
you know, and a lot of times it's the same
as a really her heavy pressure pressured hunting units too.
They kind of do the same thing to them, you know,
they just let out that little girl at the end
or just a little peep and then but way, Yeah,
once you get in on them and you get them
up and the other pushing, they'll get a lot more vocal.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
Nice. Now, if you work a bowl one day and
you don't spook him, but you've what some calling pressure
on him, how soon do you go back after that bowl?
Let's say he's a pretty nice and you're like, man,
I don't really want to get that bull. How soon
you go back on that bull?

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Man? Immediately, I've really said, don't wait, because they're not
going to be there tomorrow. You know, a lot of
where I hunt, you go into an area, say you
got a bull, be you going he's screaming? You don't.
You don't get an opportunity at him that day. A
lot of times you go in the next day both
screaming in the same spot. That's not the same elk.
A lot of times that bull's got his coys. He's
three ridges away doing their big old circle like they do,

(17:29):
and uh, it's another you know, another bowl in that
same spot. That just seems like a lot of times
that's what we see.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, yeah, So don't give them too much breathing room.
Do you try to mix things up. Do you try
to sound like a different elk the next time you
go at them? You're like, I'm gonna take a different
tube or different some different reads or something.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
Yeah, I owner, you know, I take it all or
use it all. But uh, yeah I do. I do
try to change it up. I try to definitely change
up the way I do my sequences, you know, I
try not to go at them with the same krow
calls starting and stuff like that. Well, you know, they're
they they're smart. It's tough tough to be about their
own game.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, yeah, that's true. I kind of agree. I definitely
agree with what you said earlier about you want to
be the first you wanted the first crack at that bowl.
Like every time you haven't encounter with that bowl, man,
your odds to me that your success go way down.
Like the first time he's learning you, and then the
second time's like, oh man, this is tough.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, And I think the problem that I have where
I hunt as I've hounted there for twenty something years,
so they're all like, oh, that's Chris over there again.
You know, he just grab this down. They're like, well,
last year he didn't chase near this ridge, So I'm
gonna go here and anger. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I think
they know me very well.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Oh yeah, that's it. Yeah yeah the way he chuckles. Yeah,
that's good.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Yeah, September, it's August thirtieth. It's wrapped it again.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
Yeah. How much cow calling do you do?

Speaker 2 (19:11):
Quite a bit. I would say I have more success
with bugling and chuckling and imitating bulls. But I mean
I got a you know, probably a three to twenty
both for a customer last year, and that was strictly
three cow calls. I had called him in and he
only gave us a front shout at ten yards. The
hunter didn't shoot. We let him go over the hill.

(19:32):
I gave him like probably an hour break, made sure
the wind was good, and then I snuck right into
his bedroom where he was down and bugling with his cows,
and we just sat We had warm opening to make
it happen. We sat down on a rock, just took
our time. I read out three soft calls and we
just sat there, and within twenty minutes he come with
his note to the ground. I had no idea we
were in americ couldn't worked out and butter.

Speaker 1 (19:55):
Man, that's awesome. You find that kind of just planting
that seed. Sometimes may you do may not get a
response right away, but those elk are hearing your calls,
and if you give it some time to work, you
find that that, like, eventually they'll show up a lot
of times.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
Yeah, well a lot of times they come from so
much further away than you expect. You're working the one
below you, but it's across the cane, the three you
weren't paying attention to. That sneak in on the end. Obviously,
Patients is key. It's it's tough. I got better with
age to be a little more patient, you know, but
I'm pretty bad about just you know, grabbing my bow
and be going trucking again. But you know, you run

(20:32):
into them a lot of turns. Mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Yeah, I've man, I you sound just like me. The
older I get. Yeah, I'm giving, I'm getting more patient.
I'm like the least patient person ever. And man, I've
I've learned. I've learned over the years and and especially
as I think it's like, you know, the physicality of
getting old too, it's like, oh yeah, I'm not as
I'm not that as much of a stud as it

(20:55):
used to be. I'm not a stud at all, but
you know, honest have to slow down, take a little
more time. And man, I had a bowl here a
couple of years ago. I started on him in the morning,
and you know, he bugled pretty decent. Then he went
to bed super early, like at eight am, and I
got up there, crawled in there, and I was probably
sixty seventy yards from him most of the day in

(21:15):
hiss betting area, and I'd call to him a little
bit and he'd just kind of growl at me, and
he didn't want to come over and check me out.
But luckily I had the wind good all day, and
finally in the evening shadow started getting long, he got up,
started being more active, started calling, and a bowl from
about as far away as you could hear. I could
just be like, man, I think I heard a bugle,

(21:36):
And then a little bit later, oh yeah, I do,
hear a bugle over that way, and pressing that bolt
starts coming. I mean, this thing's coming from a mile away, right,
And he's bugling a lot more than the guy I'm with, right,
And I'm trying to call to him, and he ain't
taken my bait. He just kind of given those those
mony bugles. Well, this other bowl he comes from a

(21:57):
mile away, gets up there, he gets to about one
hundred fifty yards from this bull I've been messing with
all day. The bull I was with, you know, I'm
you know, he's got just a wimpy bowl. Everybody'd be like, oh,
I think at the five point he gives this Jurassic
Park blood curdling I'm going to kill you scream at
that bowl. Once he gets close now, and he charges

(22:19):
off the hill and chases that bulk, screaming at him
the whole way out of the drainage, up and over
the up and over the ridge and completely gone. Like
I was right between him. I thought, man, this could
be a I didn't. I didn't even get to see
either one during that whole show. You know, It's like,
dang it, I thought for sure, doesn't kill that sucker.
And he just chased out of the bull, completely out

(22:39):
of here. He must have knew him. He's like, I don't. Yeah,
I know. You get the hell out of here, you sucker.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, I've seen that before too. Where up the bowl
ruins You're hot by chasing the smaller bull you were calling.

Speaker 1 (22:51):
Yeah, yeah, so, but the but I feel like sometimes
you don't even you don't even hear those bulls like
a long distance until you know. I'm typically pretty quick,
you know, I'll do in a matter of five minutes.
When I'm locating, I'll do three bugles, a few cow calls,
and listen. I'm like, all right, I don't hear nothing

(23:11):
five minutes, let's go hike over to the next spot
and call. Well, man, it seems like lately I've been
kind of given, especially if I haven't heard no bulls,
I'll just get I'll sit down for thirty minutes, and man,
pretty soon, like way off in the distance, you'll hear one,
and then they'll get closer and closer. So it's just like, man,
sometimes I think they're a lot further away than you

(23:32):
think they're going to be, and you just kind of
let them get into ear shot, you know, for us,
you know, I don't think we hear nearly like an auctoz.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
But yeah, there's no question about that. And they you know,
a lot of times they get there past too. They
could be there far away but only take some five
minutes to get to where you didn't even hear them.
But I've noticed since I've been a lot more patient
the last several years, you definitely run into where the
silent ones come in a lot more, you know, come
all the way and a lot of times the silent
one of the footers, you know. Like I said, that's

(24:02):
the same reason I like that early feed. And I
when I'm running for myself, I don't even hunt wear
a guide because I don't want to screw up all
those oak for where I'm giving. So you know, I
try to say I got my spots, and then I
got my guidepop, and I try to lead.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Those alone for the client. Yeah, that's smart. Keep them fresh,
keep them fresh for the clients. I can't. I mean,
that's that's a that's a great tip for success there.
I mean, that's good. Not to be selfish. So h
here's a question. I hear this a lot from from
hunters or you know, some will say, never call like

(24:39):
a big bull. Always call like a squeaker bul. Some
guys say, no, no, you want to call it a
big bull. What's your take, man?

Speaker 2 (24:45):
I I don't know. I'm just thinking about this there
day while watching you guys as uh in the salmon
last last year. I might I think I do more
small bulls than I do streaming streaming bowls. I think
I'm not not like spike squeaks or any thing, but
I'm not always getting rasty with everyone of them. One
of the reasons is, you know, I hud an area
where they're not always that fired up. You know, they're

(25:07):
not always fighting with other bulls. They only have a
couple of cows themselves, you know. So I think I
always try to kind of sound the medium too small,
you know, more than anything cool. But I found myself
going to New Mexico and bowling as hard as I can.
So it just earned different pactics for different places.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
I guess, yeah, okay, here's here's a question, and we
kind of I kind of talked about that a second ago.
Can you judge a bu bul by his bugle?

Speaker 2 (25:40):
No, not a chance. And honestly, an Idaho where I hunt,
I feel like anything with a growl is always the
herd ball and immature. But I went down to New
Mexico and I got rude awakening really quick day one
because I was going after the growlers and rastiness every
time and every I'd get in there and to be
a four by four or four by five I got dupe.
The big bulls weren't talking, you know, it didn't even

(26:02):
make a peep, and a lot of the smaller ones
were screamers. So I think where I hunt, you know,
where I guide, I'm a lot better at judging by
their bagle than I am. Other points about that.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, no, I I think I think you're right. That's
been my experience too with New Mexico and in north
Side hosts. Like some of that north Side host stuff,
you're like, you hear a bowl that's just like they
got that sound like, okay, that's an old bowl. Like
there's I mean, there's some some pretty pissed off five
points that can sound pretty pretty tough and pretty raspy.

(26:35):
But man, some of those old suckers, it's like, oh yeah,
that's definitely an old bowl.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
Almost of the time in North Side, I know there's
only one of those in that area. You know, it's
right right Mexico, and there's several you know, yep.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
So would you say, and you kind of hit on
this a little bit, are you more aggressive or more
of a passive elk hunter? As in, do you do
you dive in it right after him? Or do you
kind of let the situation develop over time, or maybe
you kind of do both.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
I would say a little bit of bowl, but man,
I'm done it so long and I'm not the same area.
The bulls are kind of consistent. Uh. If you ever
talk to my best friend Aaron, he'll tell you he's like,
anytime you know, a bowl of beatles across the canyon,
like that one's killable. I don't know what it is
that tells me that, what makes me think that it's
just years of experience or what you know, a lot

(27:34):
of times I'm right, it's just the way they're talking,
you know, the way they've an area down, the way
they're acting around the cows, the way they're acting around
other elks. Like I said, I think the number one
thing is just getting in close and not trying until
you're you're in their bedroom. They're a lot more uh
you know, they feel a lot more comfortable coming in
that last I've been trying to call them from.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, yeah, I'm the same. Like I think a lot
of a lot of hunters kind of they get kind
of I call it the wallflower syndrome. So they finally
get a bold a bugle and they're like, oh man,
a bowl, and then they kind of like hesitate, they
hang back and they're like, oh man, what do I do?
And and a lot of times, but I think, you know,
you have to get within a certain distance of elk

(28:17):
to like really have an impact where okay, we can
elevate this conversation with hisself to where he wants to
come in.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
Yeah, and let me touch base on two where we
hunt is really brushy and everything is loud. If you
were trying to tippy toe and walk the blow downs,
they know you're not a bowoak, you know what I mean.
I mean, I'm jumping on the boat out. I'm crashing
through my buddy Aaron, who I'm calling for. He's he's
held back, he hesitant. You know, we're in our run
route past him, and then he gets behind me, and

(28:45):
then I get into that range and you know, Aaron
back out in front of me. But I think people
are too quiet at times for the country. I like
to make noise all its's of the time. I can't
tell you how many times they come into the noise
you're making more than you're calling, you know, Yeah, yeah,
I mean they come in as sometime as the best
of me as you know, as I am to them.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. There's this one spot. Every time I've
been there in September, there's there's bulls down this big debt,
big deep, nasty hole. And it don't matter what way
you go into it.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
The wind is.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Always screwy, right, And I'm like, all right, I'm gonna
try this way, I'm gonna try that way. But i
mean every time, you know, and this place is this
right off of a road, you know, but it's this,
you know, fifteen hundred vertical feet dropped down into this
crap hole and there's always bulls down there. And they
know this because there's a pull out there. Everybody pulls
over and bugles from this pull out, right, so they're

(29:40):
just like, all right, here's another dude up there. So
they're all right, everybody take your places. Get ready to
smell them.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Man.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
I've tried everything, Like I'll stop in one spot and bugle,
and by the end of season, like if you bugle
from the turnout, they won't answer. But if you walk
over the hill and cut around three hundred yards, they'll
screw their head off at you. It's funny. They get
really conditioned, as you know, so, but it don't matter

(30:07):
how how what side of this, it's a big drange
what side of the drainage. I'll get him talking. I'm like,
all right, let's get out of here. Let's go circle around,
go over, drop in on them, and man as quite
as you think you are, Like, all right, when we
get down in there and you pop a few sticks. Man,
them suckers every time they hear me coming and they're like, oh,
there's a bowl, you know. They come over and they

(30:29):
catch me. I'm like, oh go, I'll be on the
other side of the drainage from where I heard the bugles,
and I'll start coming down. Well, I make some pop
brush pops. Pretty soon you get down towards the bottom
of the drainage there, that sucker is wins me every time,
and man like back to your point. Just like man,
they they hear that and they think, oh, yeah, that's

(30:49):
another elk. A. I have a hunting buddy that used
to hunt with a lot and he's like, oh, you're
making too much noise. They know we're not elk. I'm like, dude,
they think we're elk. Let's make let's make lots of noise.
He's like, no, no, that bull hurt you. He he
thought you were a person, Like, no, he didn't.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
There I should see some of my hunter's looks that
I get. When I'll grab a stick and just be
raking it down the breast, you make more noise, like
I'm moral, and I mean a lot of times it
really works. Le's see where I am. And like I said,
with their kind of call sye over wolves, they come
to the sound of brush breaking. It's unreal, you know,
And I imagine they you know, when just just when

(31:27):
their moose are walking and then they're full. Were a
guarantee that come to moose walking through the woods, even
just because.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Do you ever this is off topic elk, Well not really,
but kind of do you ever? As you're hunting for elk,
you're bugling, bugling. Pretty soon you start hearing Oh and
here comes a moose, a bull moose. He's like, yeah,
he don't like your bugling around here. I've had him
come in, like, you know, to chase me out of there.
They don't. They don't want that bull elk bugling around
there or something. I guess. I don't know you ever

(31:58):
had that.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
I have, Yeah, And one time there was actually snow
on the ground, and I thought I was calling in
an elk, but I'm like, this does not sound right,
And that's exactly what happened. The bull came in trying
to push me out, and I mean there was aggress
that they ran uside of the woods pretty much. Yeah, yeah, late,
so you're in it snowed. So the bull just went
quiet and the yeah a mood. Look what I called in.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
My brother in law. He was sitting in a tree
stand and doing a little bit of calling, and this big,
big bull moose come up and started walking around his stand,
and the thing would just rub and rub, you know,
drake's horns. And finally it's getting dark. He's like, I
gotta get out of here. So he climbs down. Well,
he's packing a pistol. He starts walking up this trail
back to He's got about a mile and a half

(32:42):
hike back to his pickup. This moose is following him.
He sees it like he sees a dude walking. That
moose just follows him. Every time he'd stop and turn around,
it would stop and just stare at him and go
over and rub a tree or whatever. He's like, oh
my god, I'm gonna have to kill this moose. So
he's got his pistol cocked and ready to go in
case he's gonna try, and it's fallen from like twenty
yards away. It follows him all the way back to

(33:04):
his pickup, and he's like, I'm freaked out. I gotta
get the hell out of here. So he took off,
and then I met him later that night and he's
telling me the story. I'm like, eh, the freaking moose
and you didn't have a moose follow you that far.
We get to his camper and this is no shit.
There were moose rubs all around his camper. That thing
stood around his camper, just destroying these little trees. I'm like,

(33:26):
holy cow, I can't believe that thing. He's like, man,
he's like, it wasn't a little one. It's like a
trophy moose. He's like, man, if a guy had a
moose tag, he'd be able to kill that thing. But
we didn't see no guys with moose tags.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
But yeah, I sell all my customers when they're worried
about bears, cats and wolves. I'm like, y'all, I think
in our wood you need to worry about the Syris Moose.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, that's for sure. I agree with that. So you
talked about New Mexico, Well, how much different is hunting
New Mexico to hunt North Idaho? I know the answer
from my perspective.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
Uh, to be honest with So, the first couple of
years I went down, we had really good luck calling
the bulls, and you know, I was calling them and
left and right. My problem was not being picky enough,
and I was shooting too early on the hunt. Uh.
And then the last time I went down that was
on the heel, and I got humbled drastically. We couldn't
call in anything. Those bulls were just I mean they
had bugle, they asked, but they were running away the

(34:23):
entire time, you know. And there's just got to the
point where you just drop your backpack, carry your bow,
release and arrows and just a romb and gun. The
easiest I noticed by the end I was it's easier
to cut them off and try chasing them, try to
get in front of them is definitely the way to
hunt those out.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
Yeah. Yeah, do you did you find that? At least
for where I was at New Mexico. You hear boths
bugle are like, oh yeah, there is right over there,
and you go set up, you know, like and then
you hear them bugle again, and they're like way further
away than you ever thought. Like the sound travels so
much differently.

Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah that and they moved so fast. And what I've
really and not even at a run, just walking away
from you, it is impossible to give up the better
health out your own. And what I noticed here or
there is when you think they're coming closer, they get louder.
That's only because they went through the canyon in front
of you and they're coming up the other side, so
they're one le mountain aware. So every time they get wilder,

(35:19):
you're like, oh, he's coming, He's coming. You get ready. Nope,
that was just increesting the you know ridge to go
over the next one.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Okay, yeah, yeah, uh yeah, it's it's it's a different play.
New Mexico is definitely different. And I've heard all sorts
of advice. There's some guys never bugle, do now ever,
bugled only cow call. I tried that and they the
bulls wouldn't even answer my cow call. And they okay,
only use a open read cow call, you know, like

(35:47):
you know they'll bite and blow style. Okay, I'm blue
on that, Like, yeah, I didn't really seem to trip
their trigger and then I'd bugle out the boom they'd answer.
So but it almost kind of depend on the day too,
like not every day was the same. You know, you
chase them for a day or two and like you
do bugles in the next day, then it was it
was a lot different.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
I've hunted a couple of different units, and one thing
I will say is they've never seen the same bowl
twice in New Mexico. Oh you know, even going into
the same area after a big whatever three fifty boll
we saw, I've never seen the same bowlt toy. And
all my times upon the balry, it just seems like
they're on a big circle, you know, and who knows

(36:28):
where they are the next day.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
From my experience, yeah, I saw that too. They're always
on a big circuit. And the last place I hunted
New Mexico is close to an Indian reservation. I was
hunting the edge of that, and every day there was
less and less bugles on my side of the fence
and more of them on their side of the fence.
Is like, man, I better get this done, or there's

(36:50):
all the elker going to be over on the other
side where I can't hunt.

Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, man, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
You could just hear the chaos on the on the
on the res side, just they would go in behind
a ridge and you couldn't see what was going on,
but man, it sounded like there was forty bulls back
there just screaming all day long. And you're like, man,
I wish I could just see it. Didn't you have
a drawn or nothing.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
I kind of a funny story hunting that same Indian
reservation line that you were. I called I had we
spotted the three forty five three fifty bowl right on
the edge with thirty eight cows standing right all the
fence on and I just messed with my buddy and
I said, I bet you money, I can call that
bull over here to you. I was already tagged out,
so I didn't have a bowl or tag and he's like, no,

(37:35):
you can't, and I'm like and I really didn't think
I could. But I was just you know, talks and
playing with it, and Carl went a wild me and
it sounded like the old Primos team behind them, you know,
getting treated break that bull. Left all thirty eight cows
and jump part fence and came right to our side,
and he tried a frontal shot on it, and I
watched them whirl around and basically look at us the

(37:58):
whole way. He was walking back and I was like,
that's not good. Jump the fence back to his cows
and the the DNR or whatever. The Indian drove us
around for two days looking for that bowl. And you
should see the trophies we got to see that are
on the other side of the fence.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Oh god, it was like a tour.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
It was the funnest thing I've ever done. I mean,
there was giants everywhere.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Dang it. That's cool to be able to see behind
the curtain.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Sorry your buddy didn't get his bull though. What's your
take on frontal shots, man?

Speaker 2 (38:32):
I you know, I tried to. I try to tell
them all my customers to not even chant it. Have
I killed several that way myself? Yeah? I have. I
definitely think it's a legal shot if you hit him
in the right spot. I think, my buddy, that one
was two quartered and I think you hit him in
the front and it came out behind the shoulder and
missed the viral completely. There really wasn't much of a

(38:53):
blood trail at all, and I mean it was false.
It was like nine air eleven yards or something like that.
Waited losing that ome. Yeah, I'm kind of I go
both ways on you know, I don't recommend it, but
at the same time, I'll payk one.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Right, right. I think. I think hunters, you know, just
have to be honest with themselves in the moment, you know.
And I feel like every bowl that comes into me,
I I'm not ic in my veins every time. I'm
not and I'm not like jacked up every time too.
It's like every time it's a little different. And there's
been times where I've been pretty excited when it out
comes in. It's like there'd be no way in hell

(39:26):
I'd be able to execute a good frontal shot. And
other times it'd be like, oh, yeah, this is good.
Like I shot a bowl frontal ones, I had my
bow drawn back, I could see his horns coming, and
he popped out of the brush and he literally walked
his chest right into my pin. I'm like, all right,
he's eighteen yards. It's just perfectly shot. And he ran
over there tipped over dead in forty seconds. You know.

(39:48):
It was like, holy cow, I can't believe it. But
then I get over there. I thought he was perfectly
straight frontal. Well, I get over there, and my arrow,
you know, it didn't penetrate very far. I'm like, what
the heck. Well, I'd hit his like corroded artery juggler
whatever it is, there in the neck. I'd hit him
there instead of down the pipe, down the hole, you know,

(40:09):
the thracic opening there. And uh, he wasn't quite as
straight on as I thought, And I was just aiming
in the wrong spot, but luckily I got him. But
but still, like you, it's it's a it's a can
of worms to to try to do. I don't know.
I did kind of a quartering shot on a really
big bull up in North Idaho one year, called him

(40:31):
into like five yards, like oh, I watched Jason Phelps
shoot a ball on YouTube just like this in the
same in the same spot. I'm gonna go ahead and
shoot him right there. And I didn't hit the right
spot and it didn't penetrate good. It like hit the
tip of a shoulder or something, shoulder bone or something,
and uh, he ran off and I tracked him for like,

(40:52):
oh a mile and a half and never get in.
The blood dried up well. The next day I was
in there looking at I hear him bugle. He had
a really distinct bugle back to those. He didn't have
any high pitch due he his bugle at all. It's
just like, oh, yeah, that's him, that's him again. So
I answer him at bugle at him never I'd never
heard another word of him. He's probably like, that's a

(41:14):
son of a bitch that shot me.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Uh. I agree with that. I think a lot of
people don't really pay attention exactly how the body is
standing when they come in frontal. They always think it's
facing straight on. So many times it's quartered hard. You
see him in the chest, and then it comes up
with shouldery you know, and missus the behind the shouldered
and misses the vitals completely. I definitely think more you

(41:38):
need to pay attention exactly how that don't good standing.
I think that is a problem with people losing frontos
a lot.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, if you had to pick one call to use
all season, and if you said, okay, this is all
you get, are you going to pick a cow call

(42:04):
or a bugle perceptible. Okay, yeah, me too. I mean
I use a cal call a lot. You know, I
cal call pretty heavy, but I google more than a
cal caol. But it's almost like, I'm like, all right,
there's cows over here. I want to give you a
reason to come over and fight. Like, sure, you want
to fight, you know, if you can get them to
fight without any cow calls or whatever. But I want

(42:26):
them to think there's a good reason there to come
over and fight and beat this bowl. There's cows here,
there's something to win over.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah, I do it all. I do. Think I would
say if I, you know, added up, you know what
works the best throughout a season for me. I I
really do chuckle in a lot of them, you know
what I mean? A lot of times it's copying what
they're doing or imitating them, but I I really do
call in a lot of elk with chuckles. A lot
of people don't like it or you know, say it
doesn't work for them. But I think if you're you know,

(42:53):
you're good, and you practice a lot, and I just
think there's not a lot of people out there that
can chuckle great. And then I just don't you know,
if you're hunting a pressured area. They'll come to chuckle
before google can alcohol a lot of times. Yeah, and
that's my opinion obviously.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
But yeah, yeah, I agree with you. You know, there's
there's some there's some information out there nowadays. You know,
there's a there's a guy, he's a good friend of mine,
and he's like, never chuckle at a bowl, you know,
never ever chuckle the ball. Always just do like he
calls it a bull calling cow's bugle. He does a scream,

(43:30):
kind of a short scream, which does work too, but
he's like, never chuckle a bull. But man, I just
like you. I've chuckled in so many bulls with chuckling
only and then bugling and chuckling. Seems like some bulls
just chuckle a lot, and they like it when you
chuckle at him, like there they you know, they get
mad when you chuckle back at him, where some bulls

(43:50):
don't chuckle a lot. I kind of just go with
what the bull's doing.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Percent I do that exact same thing, and I really
do try to copy him and you know, imitate it
on those much as possible, and they just they get irritated.
They don't like that.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah, yeah, I try not to get I don't try
to take my aggression or my vibe any higher than theirs.
I try to like keep it at the same, if
not a little less, especially if it's early in the
conversation or early in the argument, whatever you want to say.
My son, he was trying to tell his wife about,

(44:24):
you know, what elk calling is all about, and she's like,
I don't get it. He's like, well, you're basically arguing
with an elkie, you know, until you get him mad
enough to come fight. He's She's like, okay, you're you're
having an argument with a wild animal. Oh okay, Like
I never thought of that before. I was like, that's funny,
you know for me, Yeah, from people who are who

(44:46):
aren't elk hunters or callers, like, it's a it's a
funny perspective. But yeah, that's that's pretty accurate. But anyway, Yeah,
I like to try to match their their their intensity,
you know, I don't and I like I like to
let them kind of like escalate first before I escalate.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yeah, And I probably should have said that earlier when
you asked me if I'm a big bull bugler kind
of a smaller I kind of do what they do
more than anything, you know, I kind of I should
have said that, you know, leave it up to the bowl.
I'm kind of you know, you know, imitate and like
we were talking about.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Right, I found some of those really big old growler bowls.
If I try to bugle wimpy at them, they're just like, yeah,
I'm not really interested. But I start bringing the same heat,
the same intensity as they're giving. They're like, Okay, yeah,
this guy's a possible rival here. I'm going to tell
him to shut his mouth.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Yeah. I think it's different everywhere you hunt. Like I said,
I wearn a lot. I learn every day, same thing
as you said, we get to learn. I mean, you
learn every single day you're out there. But I definitely
think I'm better at honey elk in my ear than
I have other dates.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Yeah, oh I agree, Yeah, I'm the same, same, same.
There are some some cool places to hunt out that
that are similar, Like Wyoming. It's you know, a lot
of the elk there like to fight. At least the
places I've gone they like to. They want to fight.
Montana some of the place I've been in Montana. Man,
it's tough. It's tough. Well, just finding bulls, it'll bugle

(46:12):
the haven't just been molested, you know, by the general public.
It's tough, so you know, finding those little pockets and
bulls that want to fight, it's it's a lot tougher,
well for at least for me. I think once a
guy cracks that code and kind of gets his spot
dialed in and knows, you know, has elk that like
to fight, and then they haven't been pressured a lot,
I think it could be really, really good, But I
just haven't found that spot yet.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
I kind of have a little bit of an advantage
owning mules. So what I like to do is hit
all the roadsides stuff early and the easy stuff that
I know that everyone's going to come in and massacre.
I try to be the first one and all that stuff,
you know, and and then I go to the back
country and mules later in the season, so I can
kind of get away from people or the pressured elk anyway,
maybe not people get away from the call. So kind

(46:57):
of a kind of cheating a little bit, But mules
are a blessing.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Yeah. Yeah, if I said I wasn't jealous, I'd be lying, Yeah,
that's that's awesome. I wish. I wish my legs would
be able to take me to those places.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Yeah, and it's kind of funny. I don't really use
them to help for myself. I'm pretty hard hit. It'll
usually walk anywhere. But once you're guid and you know,
the clients can't go as good, so you gotta use
them as much as.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Yeah, you got to keep them in the game. You
don't want to burn them out the first day or two. Yeah,
So let's talk about October a little bit. October tenth
in your country is the opener, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yep? That's opay.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah. Do you guys get any bugles that first week season?

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Yes, it all depends on the weather. A lot of
times we'll get a snow between October first and tenth
when the season's closed, and that shuts everything right down
where I if you got beautiful weather sixty seventies, they'll
still be talking a little bit. Uh Am, I gonna
run around trying to call him in every day. No,
I've prayer at them for the full month beforehand, so
I try to just use the locate, you know, and

(48:04):
then set up cross bridges, you know, and shoot across
at them. But those big bulls. Typically by the end
for me, the big bulls have already left their cows.
You got some of the smaller six points of five
points running all the cows around. Usually you get on
a big one, you'll find them by themselves that time
of the year in my area. So hey, it just

(48:24):
depends on how picky the hunter is, whether you know,
we'll try to stay with the cows if you just
want to shoot a decent bull, or if we're trophy hunting.
You know, I'm looking for those single bowls that are
off on their own, trying to hit the real back country,
getting like from the roads.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
And so yeah, yeah, I've kind of had that same experience.
It seems like that that that big shitty weather or
snow that that happens between September and October tenth really
does some some something for that calling like usually always bad.
It'll be going good and then it just shuts them down.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
I'd see those hunts on TV where her streaming in
the snow. I guess they're jealous because I've never seen
that they don't. Maybe one time ever I had a
good three twenty three thirty bulls streaming in the snow.
But most of the time they shut right down, and
where I am, they'll actually migrate out too. You get
too much snow, you know. Ever since the ninety five
ninety six winter, they don't mess around with snow. They

(49:21):
got it in their heads. Now. No, it starts to fly,
they start walking out. But then you got to hunt
a whole different area guiding, you know, we got to
go down down in elevation.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, I've had bulls the opening week
bugling like crazy. At one time, I had a little
snow come in and they were cracking off a little bit.
My son and I we were following them around and
this bull was bugling every little bit and just never
could catch him. It's like, oh, and then he kind

(49:52):
of started doing money bugles from one spot for a while.
All right, they're bedding down right here, so let's just
sit down and wait them out. Let's wait till you know,
this evening, afternoon whatever they start getting active again. Maybe well,
you know, the sun was coming out and the snow
was dripping out of the trees, like okay, you only
had a skiff, you know, So we sat down and
pretty soon it's like, ah, my son, you know, he

(50:14):
was I don't know, fifteen or something at the time,
and he lays down. Pretty soon he's sleeping. I'm like,
I might kick back and take a little nap too.
It's pretty early morning, and we got up. So I'm
sleeping and I'm rudely awoken by hoof beats and I
look up just to see this freaking dandy like three
hundred inch bowl just running by. I'm like, oh God,
So I shake him like well, I grabbed my bolt,

(50:36):
my bugle right away and just scream and I shake
Austin awake. I'm like, get up, get up, there's a bull.
So I get him stud up and and I kind
of seen where the bull went, and I got him
by the shoulders, like you know, driving my son right
to where okay, stand right here. Pretty soon he raised
his rifle and puts it raised his rifle and puts
it raisy rifle, boom shoots. I'm like, I couldn't see

(50:58):
the bull. I'm like, did you get in my Oh yeah,
but I didn't hear no flopping around or nothing. I'm like,
it was just silent, huh. And all of a sudden,
that bull just takes off running. So we give a
little bed I'm like, where did you shoot? He's like
in the neck. I'm like, were you steady? He's like,
f no, I wasn't wasn't steady. You just woke me up.

(51:21):
So I go over there. I start following tracks, and
there's not a bit of blood. He completely missed him
this deep shot at like, I know, ten fifteen yards,
so that's a pretty tough shot anyway. I think you
probably see hair in the scope and you just jerk
the trigger. But I start following tracks and follow he
just plowing, you know, down the hill and then hit
the crick and went up the other side. And yeah,

(51:42):
there's no blood. I'm like, well, that opportunity was gone.
But like we'd like set there for two hours and
hadn't made a peep in two hours. But what that
bull did, for my best calculations is he put his
girls to bed, and then he'd be like, you know,
I heard that other bowl over there, I heard some
cow calls, I'm gonna go check that out, and you
just come over there quiet, you know, walked right up

(52:04):
on us and stared as sleeping. So that's one other
reason why I kind of, you know, back to that
point of like give it things some time and be patient.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Man.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Sometimes you can just be patient and they'll just come
back to you.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
Yeah. That reminds me of the time a couple of
years ago I had a rifle hunter. He shot at
this bullet six hundred yards on the dot. It shot
fifteen times. I never even had that many bullets with him.
This birrel stayed eating under being down to like fire.
I think we got to five hundred and thirty two
yards and literally on shot fifteen was the only time

(52:39):
it even picked up a legger's head. And I'm like,
you might have hit him on the last shot. So
we're like, Rob, we'll give it two or three hours
to die. We're kind of in a big bowl. And
we sat there two hours later. That bowl had done
a whole loop around the bowl. We're just sitting there
about dozing off, deciding what time we're going to go
look for blood. And I heard hood's an antler crashing

(53:01):
below us, you know, on our side of the canyon. Ye,
what was that? And I said, I'm pretty sure that
was your bowl, and that bowl just yeah, he fed
all the way around the canyon. We never touched him
at five hundred. From six hundred to five hundred and
thirty yards. That guy missed every shot with a He
had a three hundred, but he only had a three
by Erne and scope and it was not enought.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Old Kentucky wind. Did you I guess?

Speaker 2 (53:26):
Yeah, I roote down. It is gone. And the first
thing that came out of my mouth was, oh, no,
we're gonna miss.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
That's hilarious. So once the bugling's over once, once you
can't hear bugles anymore during October, what are you doing?
Are you just glassing? Is it a glass?

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Yeah? That point, Yeah, a lot of glass. And where
I'm at in the north Sideaho, there's a lot of
meadows and glades that they especially when the weather changes.
Hopefully not the snow. A lot of times we'll get
rain right after that, and I like the stormier wetter days.
It's usually always foggy, so that's you're contending with the fog.
But once the fog clears, a lot of glasses in

(54:10):
those meadows, they look gae I say meadows, they look
like meadows. Most of them are brush fields. You have
to be shooting from one side to the neck, you know.
But I try to find them in those older fields,
you know, And m stuff like that. I don't do
too much calling after the first week of bright well.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
Yeah, yeah, I had a question. What was it. So
once the do you find like, once you get a
lot of the leaves off that brush to it makes
it a lot easier spot them.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Oh it's night and day.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
Man.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
The years that we have real warm weather, it cuts
my success in half. Honestly with the leaves being on.
The worst for me is when all the leaves turn yellow,
because everything looks you know, it really does. It cuts
my success right in half. You know, knows those leaves
fall off, I can see so much more.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Oh yeah, so typically that by the time, you know,
end of October, by the the last week or so,
then you're like, man, you know you can usually count
on some of them leaves being gone.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Yeah. It seems like if you get a snow or
like I said, that real cold, late season rain, they'll
leave the leave a lot that you know, they call
up a lot quickly.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
So a lot of people that have a hunted country
like that, they don't understand that that rain in North
Idaho rain like how long are you dry from the
time you step out of the tent so you step
into the brush like.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
So for me, it's we started saddling our mules at
two fifty am, so usually about three o'clock I've already
got a couple of mules saddled. I'm soaked from that
point all I don't even try to go change back
in different angers. It's like, you know, I just we
as long as they stay were all day, it's fine.
You know. Once I'm wet, I'm wet. It suck to
get wet at first, but there, just do it in

(55:59):
the dark. Can suffer all there.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Yeah, keep moving, keep warm. Do you find like on
those downpour days, like once it finally does like quit
and the sun comes out a little bit, man, the
elk just pop out.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yeah, it seems like for sure they move right after
the storm is the best for us. The worst is
when you get that bluebird days for seven days straight,
you know, when it's seventy degrees there, nothing moves like,
you don't even see no clear dose at that time.
You know, it's crazy how the wood just shuts down.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Everything turns into a vampire at that point.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Yeah. And the other thing I really haven't said much about,
like for rif Fonton in my country, and you said
earlier about bulls going to bed early at eight o'clock.
It's like for me, I have that last forty five
minutes before dark and I only have an hour in
the morning. A lot of times in rifle season, it's
really tough. They did not move all day like some states,
you know, it's different, and they bed out so early

(56:55):
whom it almost doesn't give you a chance A lot
of times.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, especially on those blue bird days, like
like you say, you're just like, you're just nothing. You'd
there's not a living creature out here that Those are
frustrating days. Man, You're like, man, why can't I even
turn up with your dough?

Speaker 2 (57:13):
Yeah, well, it's it's uh, you know, it's bittersweet because
you love having a nice weather. You're not getting snowed
and rain now, but you've seen nothing. Yeah, it's just
really slow and that actually that's what happened to us
the first week last year, and then second week the
weather rolled in. We smacked some nice bowler up about. Yeah. Yeah,
that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
So do you have any cool hunts lighting up this fall?
Are you getting the old home turf there?

Speaker 2 (57:39):
Yeah, pretty much. I am just hunting elk and Idaho,
and I'll probably do hunt and I'm Plahoma, but that's
pretty much it. Uh oh. I got a guy in
two weeks, well, kind of three weeks. One of my
best friends with me every year, but I take him hunting,
so pretty much hunt by myself for one week, hunt
with my best friend one week, and then huh uh,
and then guide the rest of the sea.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
So oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
It seems like every year I get a little less
time because I get these repeat customers that want to
keep coming back, and it's so hard to tell them no,
I'm using my days of elk.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Yeah, are you a one man band or do you
have other guides that help you?

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Now I have other guides. I'll usually run three elk
guides and then there'll be a bear guide in camp
at the same time. In the fall, we do our
Archeril cunts at the same time as fall bear, so
it's just two weeks of four Archeril hunters and two
weeks of four fall bear hunters at the same time.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Okay, yeah, I was going to ask you about your
fall bear. If you guys run any fall fall bear.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
Yea, yeah, not many, just a yeah. That's all over
bit and Uh. It makes a nice having the bear
guide in camp at the same time too, because it
gives you one more person to help you pack out
and ELK. If you get one in an l you know, yeah,
just more hands to help it'll go.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Yeah. Well that's awesome. Well, man, I appreciate you coming
on today. Is there anything else you can think of
you want to talk about on on?

Speaker 2 (59:04):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (59:04):
Hunting ELK and calling ELK?

Speaker 2 (59:06):
No, I think I I think I did pretty good.
I didn't forget as much of what I did last time.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
I know how it is. You get out into a
conversation or you get in a podcast and talk about something,
then an hour later you're like, man, I should have
talked about this or that.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
Yeah, after our last month a lot, but it came
to mind. But I think I did a little better
this time.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Yeah, yeah, he did great. He did good both times.
But well, where can people find you? If they want
to look you up?

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Okay, on Facebook you can look up Rustle Pond and
dbar c Outfitters, or on Instagram, and then we have
a website well www. Dot russell Pond dot com. Or
if you just want to see the stuff that I'm
going you can follow me Chris cabral on Facebook or Instagram.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
Yeah cool cool, Well, thanks man, appreciate you having on
having you on the show and look forward to seeing
your success.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Is Faul that happened? Thanks, Thanks a lot, It's always
good talking to you, dude.

Speaker 1 (01:00:05):
Heck yeah yeah, we'll catch everybody on the flip flock
m m m m hm

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
H