Military has confirmed it sought information on using a ‘heat ray' against D.C. protesters

The military has confirmed it sought information on using a ‘heat ray' against D.C. protesters. If that weren’t enough, there were other military grade weapons being considered through startling investigative reporting by Dina Temple-Raston, Investigations correspondent for NPR who will walk us through the inquiries and the subsequent implications.

Then, if you want to get away, Hawaii may be the place to do it.  Hawaii is to begin allowing travelers who test negative for COVID to bypass quarantine starting Oct. 15. David Oliver, social media editor for the Travel section at USAToday will tell us how we’ll need to pack.

And finally, if you’re in California or Oregon you might have noticed the orange to almost red hue of the sky. The phenomenon is connected to the ongoing brush fires, but not necessarily in the way you may think. Sara Kiley Watson, editorial assistant for Popular Science will paint a clearer picture for us.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's Friday, September eighteenth in Los Angeles. I'm o Kelly
in for Oscar Ramirez and this is the Daily Dive.
The military has confirmed it sought information on using a
heat ray against d C protesters. If that weren't enough,
there were other military grade weapons being considered. Through startling

(00:23):
investigative reporting by Dina Temple Raston Investigations, correspondent for NPR,
who will walk us through the inquiries and the subsequent implications.
Then if you want to get away, Hawaii may be
the place to do it. Hawaii is to begin allowing
travelers who test negative for COVID nineteen to bypass quarantine
starting October fifteenth. David Oliver, social media editor for the

(00:46):
Travel section at USA Today, will tell us how we'll
need to pack. And finally, if you're in California or Oregon,
you might have noticed the orange to almost red hue
of the sky. The phenomenon is connected to the ongoing
brush fires, but not necessarily in the way you think.
Sarah Kylie Watson, editorial assistant for Popular Science, will paint
a clearer picture for us. It's the news without the noise.

(01:11):
Let's dive in it only penetrates one sext and fourth
of an into your skin goes very shallow, uh into
where your nerve receptors are joining us. Now is Dina
Temple Raston Investigations, correspondent for NPR Dona, thank you for
coming on today. The military confirms it sought information on

(01:33):
using a heat ray against d C protesters. That's the headline,
and that would seem concerning all by itself. My first
question is why would the military be seeking to intervene
in a domestic protest. Well, it was the military police.
And this is in Washington, d C. Right, not Portland, Oregon,
so it's a little bit different. But the National Guard

(01:55):
and military police were all involved, along with me Apolitan
police in trying to not necessarily quell the protests that
certainly control protesters in the nation's capital. What do we
know about the capabilities of this heat ray at this point,
because I assume the military would be very tight lipped

(02:17):
about any technology, much less as capabilities. Well not this one. Actually,
this has been around for a couple of decades and
there actually if you go on YouTube, you can find
quite a number of military promotional videos about it, the
heat ray, which makes it sound almost cartoonish. It's actually
on a like a an or like a like a

(02:38):
ray gun that you would see in some sort of
space cartoon. It's actually mounted on top of the truck.
It looks like a giant satellite dish. And if you
go on YouTube, you can find a lot of sort
of promotional films about the A d S system that
is put out by the military itself, and basically what
it shows is that they use see millimeter waves, which

(03:01):
are different than microwaves, that basically give a sensation on
the skin of heat. And the videos are almost oddly
comical because they have sort of high ranking military officials
who are sort of soft with dis ray and they
immediately it's kind of the sensation you have. They look
like they've just been bidden by something. You know, how
you kind of start when you've been bidden. That's what

(03:23):
it looks like. As far as I note, has never
been deployed inside the United States. There was some talk
of it being deployed on the fringes of a G
eight meeting in Pittsburgh, but like this talk that they
did this time, it never really amounted to anything. Was
one of the options that they discussed. You took My
next question, because the obvious question was for me, was

(03:45):
the extent of use. If it's been around for decades
and some former fashion, that means it's being used in
some former fashion most likely. Is there any indication from
your investigation where it has been used around the world.
Let me give you a generic example. The idea of
it was always that safe example, you had a crowd

(04:06):
outside an embassy somewhere, or you had a crowd that
was descending on military soldiers who were on the field
of battle, that it would be used in that sort
of content. Do we know if and when it's used
from any promotional video or any type of information within
military communications that you've seen that this is a weapon

(04:28):
which is only used on a certain portion of the
body or could be used anywhere. And I want to
make this comparison that although it's billed as being non lethal,
depending on how it's used, isn't there the possibility of
it being lethal? The idea behind it is that it
isn't lethal. The idea is that this is something that

(04:48):
you would use so that you wouldn't be using the
bullets to what your option is a burning sensation instead
of bullets. It's not it's not a great option, but
the idea has always been that this would not be
a lethal device. But in the same way that there
has been This other device that they were looking for
from the DC National Guard is something called an l RAT,

(05:09):
a long range acoustical device, and l RAD is very loud,
and if you're standing next to it, it could at
least temporarily deafenite you, in the same way that if
you're standing right next to a cyrus it would temporarily
sort of ring your ears. These are all part of
these weapons. I mean, this is a militarization of weapons
that are being used on demonstrators. I'm not making any

(05:31):
excuses for them whatsoever. All I'm saying is that the
idea behind these weapons is that they're non lethal weapons
that could be used in crowd control. But as far
as we've been able to tell from the reporting that
we've done, never ever been used. And l RAD has
been used to court police use that, but something like
this a d S system has never been used in

(05:51):
the United States. Is it fair then, to wonder where
there is an escalation in the terms of techniques or
technologies which may be employed or are being considered to
quell these demonstrations. I get the sense and correct me
if I'm wrong that it's a new class of weaponry
which had not been considered before. Allegedly it was briefly

(06:12):
considered on the fringes of the G eight when the
G eight within Pittsburgh. But as a general matter, I
guess I would take your supposition that there is sort
of a militarization of this militarization of how you respond
to protests. I think we've seen that across the board.
I don't think it just has to do with these
particular weapons systems or these particular devices, if you think

(06:35):
about it. We have been looking at the way police
departments have been up armored for years now as a
concern about these A P. A PC type vehicles that
they drive with the kind of weapons that they're using.
So this is sort of along that CONTINUOUM. It's been
a worrisome trend for a while, and this is just
a continuation. I started our conversation highlighting the fact that

(06:57):
the military confirmed that it sought information on using a
heat ray. Do we know how the story ends A
big picture in the sense of they've fought the information,
they've likely received the information. Do we have any indication
of what they planned to do with the information in
legitimate terms? So let me just give you sort of
the TikTok of how this went. So we understand from

(07:18):
military whistleblower who provided written testimony to the House Natural
Resources Committee. He basically wrote that he was forwarded an email.
He was a top National guardsman in the DC National Guards.
He's now a military whistleblower. He was forwarded an email
that asked about these two systems l RADS and the

(07:42):
ADS the active denial system. So he was sent to
the email and it was asked, does the DC National
Guard He was sent this email from the Joint Forces
Headquarters Command of Washington, d C. And this email said
it's the National Guard in possession of these two devices.
And the way it was confirmed to us that the
military is they said that the command inquired informally about

(08:05):
capabilities across the full spectrum of non legal systems to
include the long range Acoustic device and the active denial system,
and they said that they didn't possess those systems and
they didn't actually request them, and no further action was
taken as a result of this email inquiry on the

(08:26):
Joint Forces Commands part Well, we understood from whistle blower
is his response about half an hour after this email
was forwarded to him was he responded and said, no,
the VC National Guard doesn't have these systems, and then
it was left at that. So this was at around
eleven in the morning on June one. Hours later, federal police,
DC police and US part police cleared Lahead Square in

(08:50):
front of the White House with tear gas and smoke.
And as we know, those were peaceful protesters who were
cleared that way. So it's sort of a continuum of events.
Right in the morning, They're asked me about this. We
don't know exactly where they were going to use them.
Maybe it wasn't going to be last, maybe it was
going to be somewhere else where they thought that would
be probably, But whatever it was, this was the continuation

(09:12):
of events, and finally they culminated, as we all remember,
not only in the clearing of the square before the
Kirchie started in d C. So a lot of people
were surprised. But in addition to that, remember that President
Trump then came out and had a photo of outside St.
John's Episcopal Church, which is just on the side of
Lafia Square. She is Dina Temple, Wrestling Investigations correspondent for NPR.

(09:37):
Thank you, Dina for all that fantastic information, and thank
you for coming on today. You bet, thanks for having
me revisit sort of somewhat you know, bowing to pressure,
but somewhat needing to get people traveling to Hawaii again.

(09:57):
Joining us now is David Oliver, social media editor for
the Travel section at USA Today. How are you today,
sir Hi, I'm doing well. How are you doing well?
Looking forward to possibly traveling again? Hawaii is going to
let travelers who test negative for COVID nineteen to bypass
quarantine starting October fifteen. That would suggest to me that

(10:18):
we're moving in the right direction as a country. The
bad news would be that we're moving towards winter, not spring,
and also as soon as we haven't already started trending
in a more negative direction by then. How would you
read this announcement big picture? I would be this announcement
it's something that has been postponed several times. So Hawai's

(10:40):
governor wanted to, you know, put this in place August one,
but you know, I had to keep postponing it as
COVID cases kept spiking on both the US mainland and
also in Hawaii, and then they're going to start September one,
and then they had to cancel that. So it's been
pushed back so many different times. So I would read
this as sort of somewhat you know, bowing to pressure,
but somewhat needing to get people traveling to Hawaii again.

(11:01):
And you know, cases have actually break down some higher
average from like last week. So in theory, this could
be the time to try it. But time will tell
and this is gonna work out. It's interesting you say
time will tell as if we really know what the
future is going to hold. But from what it seems
like you're telling me, it will be subject to what
is happening not only in Hawaii but in the United

(11:23):
States as far as just infections. Correct. That's what that means,
because in theory, as people start to travel again and
these things need to happen, like you know, there could
be lapses and then whatnot. So if matters on both
the US mainland and in Hawaii, yes, travelers will have
to take COVID nineteen tests within seventy two hours before
their flight arrives. So it matters where their origination point

(11:45):
is arrives in the island. CVS and healthcare provider Kaise
Permanente have agreed to conduct the tests as part of
this agreement with the state. But it highlights the obvious
that people will be coming into contact with a lot
of other people in life and in the airport in
those preceding hours after the test. Would they not, Yes,
that's true, and airlines are supposed to be helping inform

(12:06):
travelers of this requirement. And then Hawaii actually earlier this
summer they're requiring travelers to fill out an online Safe
Traveled application in order to keep both residents and visitors
healthy during the pandemic. So you know, that's a digitizing
a process that was once for a paper. But you
know they're trying to, I guess, you know, just make
sure that people are aware of what's going on and

(12:28):
they keep talking where people have been. All in theory
too obviously prevent a spike in cases, but as we've
seen with this pandemic, like it can take one person
to fall out of line or to not answer truthfully
or whatnot that could end up becoming a super spreader.
There is not necessarily complete freedom of movement for traveler.
If you are to fly into y ki Ki, it

(12:48):
does not mean that you can go to the other
neighboring islands and just have free run and free exploration.
Is that correct now? At least not right now? No,
in theory, like you can't just like once you're there,
you have to say it a specific resort if they're
you know, if they're part of this program. But a
resort has to me to send the guidelines in order
to become a part of this resort program that was

(13:09):
floated earlier this summer. Has this notification been met with
overall cheer, glee? Are people happy about this or is
it just very cautious in nature right about now? Just
a general reaction? I think in general, I think it's
something that we all sort of saw coming eventually, and
then we were anticipating kind of each month this is

(13:31):
going to happen or not. But then as you know,
cases started spanking, it was kind of a general like,
oh no, But then I think you've just seen it
around the country. People are really set up with the
quarantined or you know, not being able to move around
as much. You're just seeing in terms of like you know,
like I guess even the whole Big Ten decision to
start playing games again, Like it's just, you know, it's
around the country this feeling. So I think it was
not unexpected this is gonna be listed, or that there

(13:53):
was you know, there's probably in place soon enough. But
what's kind of like I was saying before, it's like
we're gonna have to wait and see if this is
actually gonna work out as well as people hope. When
is the high time for Hawaii tourism specifically? Is it
this time of year or is it some other time?
It doesn't even necessarily matter at this point, like in
terms of like the best season. It's like I think

(14:14):
if they can get travelers, you know, can go to Hawaii,
I think that would be great for everybody in terms
of trying to, you know, fix what's already really mattered
economy right now. He is David Oliver, social media editor
for the Travel section at USA Today. David, thank you
for all of your insight and taking time out to
share it with us today. Of course, thank you so

(14:35):
much to appreciate it. When you're looking at a sunset
and the sun keeps peering over the horizon, all of
those wavelength of light are having to go through four
layers of the atmosphere. Joining us now is Sarah Kylie Watson,
who is an editorial assistant with Popular Science. How are

(14:58):
you today? I am great. Thank you so much for
having me Beyond the wildfires. We've had wildfires here in
Los Angeles County and surrounding counties for many years, but
I don't remember a time in which I've seen that
bright orange glow. Is there something more specific which is
driving that particular color, or the plentiful nature of the
fires which is making it orange in nature? So when

(15:21):
you have a fire that's as big as these ones are,
you've got a bunch of extra particles going up in
the air. So on a normal day, if you're just
looking outside your window and there aren't wildfires going on,
if the sky is blue, what's happening is that the
particles that are normally in the air that are water
and other gases are breaking out the Sun's light into
different wavelengths. The smallest wavelengths that sounds the farthest are true,

(15:43):
so you've got your blue particles in there. It's harder
for the smaller wavelengths that are blue and so on
to get through all of that and light up the sky.
So what happens is as orange and red the longer
wavelengths kind of are able to take center stage. So
you've got these dark, gloomy, weird orang red skies going on.
We have a lot of particle pollution in the air,

(16:05):
which is what's happening right now in San Francisco and
other parts of the Pacific Northwest. I've heard conflicting information
about whether it would be ideal to go outside even
for a walk, much less any type of other strenuous
activity outside given the poor air quality. Is there any
type of guide as far as when we might be
able to get back to doing that? Saying nothing of

(16:27):
COVID nineteen, but just as the fires get more under control,
what would be a good rule of thumb in terms
of returning to our normal outdoor activity after the fires.
You're going to very obviously for places along the West coast. Personally,
I think it's just important to keep paying attended to
your local news outlets because if you're in San Francisco
or if you're in Oregon, it might be a little

(16:48):
bit different. So just keep checking in on your local
news because they're going to be the ones to get
that information first. I don't know if you are a
pet lover like I am, but I have two dogs
and I have to be mindful about how much time
they're spending outside because they're breathing the same air that
we are, and maybe they might be hyper sensitive to that.
What type of other considerations might pet owners might have

(17:10):
to make being sure that you're only taking enough timeout
fly that you need. And also something you can think
about when you're doing that is making sure that you're
protecting yourself. Obviously, your pets are very important, but they
aren't passing around COVID, so they aren't only dealing with
the fired. So something can remember is if you're taking
your dog for a walk, or they need to go

(17:32):
to the bathroom or whatever, take them up for a
short little walk. Try to spend as little time outside
as possible, and make sure to wear your mask and
pay attention to those kinds of things as well. I'm
going to circle back to something you said near the
beginning of our conversation. You were talking about the fires
as far as how they are impacting, how light is refracting,
as far as giving its orange hue so it's not

(17:55):
necessarily connected to how brightly or how much a fire
is burning. Is that correct. It's mostly about the atmosphere,
not necessarily like the color of a fire. So it's
basically the atmosphere is full of these particles, and so
when it's full these particles, when you're dealing with the
wavelength and it's kind of like a sunset. So when
you're looking at a sunset and the sun just peering

(18:17):
over the horizon, all of those wavelengths of light are
having goes through the foler layers of the atmosphere. Stuff
why your seams and spreads and oranges. So it's pretty
much the same thing, except murkier and all day. That's
what's going on in the atmosphere around these places that
are having the fires. I am fifty years old, and

(18:38):
I don't remember a time in which I've seen anything
like that. Is it relatively uncommon or somewhat common for
this phenomena as far as the color of the skies.
So I guess it's conny think about the sunset situation,
but it's obviously not very common when it comes to
everyday life, you know, as fires are progressively getting worse,

(18:59):
possibly the climate change, maybe it will be something that
will be more common, but yeah, this is not something
that is that should happen on a normal day. She
is Sarah Kylie Watson, editorial assistant at Popular Science. Sarah Kylie,
thank you so much for coming on today and your contributions.
Thank you so much. All Right, that's it for today.

(19:28):
Join us on social media at Daily Dive pod on
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Follow us on I Heart Radio, or subscribe wherever you
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produced by Victor Wright and engineered by Tony Sorrentino. I'm

(19:48):
Mo Kelly and for Oscar Ramirez, and this was your
Daily Dive