Becoming a Male Lion with Haley Lu Richardson

Haley Lu Richardson (White Lotus) joins Chelsea to talk about her bedside-table collection of “besties”, the text that got her a B- from her therapist, and the breakup that helped her grow the most. Then: A newly-relocated caller debates whether to date on the apps.  And an office romance goes awry. 

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Get your copy of I’m Sad and Horny here

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The Drama Triangle

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Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I just announced all my tour dates. They just went
on sale. It's called the High and Mighty Tour. I
will be starting debuting my new material in February of
next year, So I'm coming to Washington, d c Norfolk, Virginia, Madison, Wisconsin, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Detroit, Michigan, Cleveland, Columbus,
and Cincinnati, Ohio, Denver, Colorado, Portland, Maine, Providence, Rhode Island, Springfield, Massachusetts, Chicago,

(00:27):
of Course, Indianapolis, Indiana, Louisville, Kentucky, Albuquerque, Masa, Arizona, Kansas City, Missouri,
Saint Louis, Missouri, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Nashville, Tennessee, Charlotte, North Carolina, Durham,
North of Carolina, Saratoga, California, Monterey, California, Modesto, California, and

(00:48):
port Chester, New York, Boston, Massachusetts, Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington.
I will be touring from February through June. Those are
the cities that I'm in, So go get your tickets
now if you want good seats and you want to
come see me perform, I will be on the High
and Mighty Tour. Hi Catherine, Hello Chelsea. I am fresh

(01:11):
off of Vegas. I came in a car service I
was supposed to. My flight was redirected here. No, no,
I did not drive here. I was in Vegas. I
forgot to leave Vegas immediately after my show. So I
went to go see Alanis last night. So yes, So
I went to Vegas for my show, my residency. I

(01:33):
do what I do every time I have my show.
I had, like, you know, fifteen friends came out.

Speaker 2 (01:38):
We go.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
When we gamble, I supply the money for everyone to gamble.
Everyone lost my money. Oh, every single person lost, myself included,
And I was like, you guys are bad juju Like whatever, fine,
it's no problem. That's that money was there to lose.
That's right. I haven't allotment that I'd never spend over.
I only take out twenty five hundred dollars and I
give it to everyone and then I don't ever take

(01:58):
out more. So then the next night we went to
see Alanis, and right as as soon as the show
is rapping, they all wanted to go out, and I say,
I have to go win back the money you guys
all lost of mine last night. Have fun. So I went.
I had no money left because it was gone. So
I sat down at a table and looked at the
guy next to me and said, I need to borrow
a thousand dollars and I will pay you right back.

(02:19):
And he was like sure, and I won right away.
I paid him back a thousand, and then I won
my three thousand back, and as soon as I did,
I went upstairs and went to sleep.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
I gotta say, you just like to decide you're going
to win your money back and then it happens like
I've seen it in action.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
Thank you. I know, I like it. It's karmicle because
I'm not being greedy. I just want everyone to have
a good time, and I want to break even, break
even exactly. That's what women can teach men, to not
be so avaricious, to just be happy with what you
have and be grateful exactly. I mean, that's not true.
I'm not grateful. I mean, you know what I mean.
I am grateful, but I'm not grateful enough for all
the things I have. I have to remind myself to

(02:55):
be grateful.

Speaker 3 (02:56):
That's why you have the gratitude journal.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, gratitude, Gratitude, Gratitude, gratitude, keep saying it, say it
all day long.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Well, I'm grateful for our guest today.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
She's very cute. Oh my god, she's the cutest. I
love her. I really like Raisar Spirit. She yes, yes,
this is such a fun interview. You'll know her from
The White Lotus probably, and she's in a lot of
other stuff, but that's how I was introduced to her.
And she's just a little buttercup and we I mean,
she's now living in Arizona, so that's the only questionable

(03:24):
decision of hers that I have a problem with. But
no offense to Arizona. But there's no reason to live there,
you know. And she has a cute book called I'm
Sad and Horny, which is a great title. Yeah, so yes,
welcome Haley Lou Richardson. Hi, Haley Lou, how are you?
I'm a breath of fresh air. That's nice. That's what
you are, fresh air.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (03:46):
Imagine if someone's just like, how are you today, and
you're like, I'm a breath of fresh air.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
But it's nice to hear. Thanks. Yeah, do you feel
like a breath of fresh air?

Speaker 5 (03:58):
Sometimes I'm trying to think if I feel that way today.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
I think you have to feel that way today, because.

Speaker 5 (04:03):
Sink I'm a breath of air. Yeah, I don't know
if it's fresh today. It's like I'm breathing.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
So yeah. Sometimes, you know, when I'm walking through the world,
I feel like I can definitely lift other people up,
you know.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
What I mean.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Like some there are days where I'm like, oh I can.
There are days where I'm like, oh I can infuse
that person, like even a stranger, with like happiness and
just spread joy. And then when I'm in a shitty
mood or a bad mood, I'm like, I hope no
one makes eye contact with me and catches what I'm
traveling around with. Yeah, I know what I mean, I
know it's spread. Yeah, it's like that.

Speaker 5 (04:39):
The best thing you can do on those types of
days is not spread whatever.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
Negativity you have, like maybe just hermit at home.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, just like just like yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what
I do. I usually it involves a xanax and an edible.
I like to pair those two things together just to
take it down, and so that way, I'm almost I
have to numb out, Like if I'm in that state,
I just have to numb out because otherwise I become
it like hysterical and I just want then and there's

(05:07):
like a feeling of rage.

Speaker 5 (05:09):
Yeah, crafts help me. I don't know if you're into crafts,
but crafts are like mind like beating, crocheting, and like
making fridge magnets. Like I don't know if maybe it's
like something about resorting to your inner child that like,
but maybe try xanax an edible and a fridge.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Magnet making and making a bracelet and making a bracelet.
You know, I was reading through your new book of poetry.
Haley Lou has a new book of poetry called I'm
Sad and Horny, which is a great fucking title. It's
a great title for a tour. I'm sorry that you
took it, although I could probably still use it, but
I won't. And which is a surprise, because we know

(05:50):
you your your most famous role, not your only role.
You've been in tons of stuff, but your most sweat
that that's very welcome here. It was a whole bit
of like a tear. My rapids were crying, your armpits
were crying. Yeah, I'm really that sad. Yeah, and that horne.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
How you are?

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah, you're most well known from playing Porscha on White Lotus.
That was a huge role for you. I know you've
been in tons of stuff. You were in a you
were in unpregnant, you were I mean, there's a whole
litany of you've been acting since you were a kid.
But everyone found out about you during White Lotus. So
you're coming out with this book of poetry, which is
very unexpected. I would never have expected that from anyone, really,

(06:32):
so I think, yeah, guessing people on their tone? Yeah,
and so can I just read one of the poems
out loud or would you prefer to read it?

Speaker 4 (06:41):
No?

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Please? Do you want to have it regularly? I'm okay,
because there's lots of art too in this. I'm going
to pick one of the ones at the top because
I didn't like there was all. There's beautiful artwork in this.
Thank you my friend Lily. Yeah, shout out to your
friend Lily. Okay, this one's called New Place Alone in
South Africa. Put my underwear in a drawer and bought
some throw pillows. Maybe it'll finally feel like home. It

(07:04):
never felt like one when we were together. Now I
want to take your last name and fall asleep to
the sound of your deviated septum. The Mandela effect or
am I a spoiled brat. I know myself deeper than that.
To be alone in South Africa is better than being
lonely with you. That's really cool.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
I liked it better.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
That's cool. So that poem is about it sounds like
it's about a breakup. It sounds like it sounds like
it sounds like.

Speaker 5 (07:33):
You moved to South Africa under a breakup. But I
was living in South Africa for a movie. And yeah,
I mean, it's it's kind of self explanatory. It's interesting
because that one is about to me personally, multiple relationships
and just like this journey of like accepting just like
actually being on your own baha.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
But yeah, that was cool hearing you read it.

Speaker 5 (07:55):
Well.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
I think that we have a lot of people who
call in and write in with similar questions to that,
where it's like they're afraid of being alone. And I
mean they might be like thirty two and they're like,
and if I leave this relationship, I'll be alone forever,
and it's like.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
First of all, not likely true.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
Actually, it's better to be alone and be with yourself
than be in a relationship where you're lonely, where.

Speaker 5 (08:19):
You're feeling lonely with that with someone else is like
the most empty feeling in the world, and being feeling
lonely on your own is actually okay, Like it's actually
proving to be not super awful all the time.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
It's awful sometimes, but I like it a lot of
the time. Yeah, and I think, I mean this book
you kind of covers the transition I think from your
twenties to your thirties, right for sure, like a comprehensive.

Speaker 5 (08:44):
Well, I mean I just turned thirty, so it's not
like I.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Moving into thirties. So from your twenties moving into your thirties,
which is a really integral part of like becoming a woman,
you know, Like I didn't really feel like a woman
until I turned fifty this year. Wow, Like now I
feel like a woman, but like, oh god, who like
a lion? Yeah, like a lioness. Actually no, I feel
like a male lion.

Speaker 4 (09:06):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Yeah that is fine. I can't wait to get there.

Speaker 5 (09:09):
Yeah, because I like, I don't feel like a woman,
I feel like a woman.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
Feel like I'm excited to feel like a male lion.
And do you feel like do you feel like a
woman or do you feel like a girl? Do you
feel you feel like a woman okay, that's good. Yeah,
I feel like a not a woman, right, but a woman.
Yeah I do, and that's yeah I do. I mean
I think what is so underappreciated or so we don't
speak enough about it in like the female space is,

(09:34):
and men of course don't want to talk about it
because men don't want us to be alone, you know,
they want us to pair up with them. But the
value of spending time by yourself, the value of going
through breakups, reflecting about back on them, understanding that you survived,
that you're okay, that you're gonna do that no matter
what happens, you will overcome it, unless you're diagnosed with
some of your She's super horny right now. She's do

(09:57):
you need a tissue? Do we need a tissue for
a hand?

Speaker 5 (10:01):
She's everyone from my pit It's okay, okay, but that's
what it is.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
Like I'm not hot. Did you have coffee? I find
coffee makes me.

Speaker 5 (10:10):
But you know what, I will thank you so much.
I think it's truly because of my deodorant I use,
Like it's not it's a deodorant, it's not an anti persper,
and so like my sweat smells good, but it's just
like it almost makes me more wet.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Ye are you using organic deodorant? Because I don't. I know,
it doesn't, it doesn't.

Speaker 5 (10:30):
I just don't want whatever, what is it the setting
it anyway?

Speaker 1 (10:36):
I mean, I know I might as well just surrender.
I might as well, you know, with all this organic stuff.
It's like, that's a great idea if my whole life
was cleaned out by some sort of organic you know,
Buddha or some sort of shaman that was going to
come in and clean out my whole house.

Speaker 5 (10:49):
But that's kind of impossible because we live in this
world at this time, and it's like, yeah, we do.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah, I've just learned to accept it.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
Right, Like what else can we do? It's like okay, okay,
keep it ranic.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
I'll try. I'll get some dove. I'll try one step
at a time. So back to your womanhood. Yeah, So
because you were in a long relationship. You were in
a seven year relationship right at one point. This was
you broke up a long time ago from that, I think,
but you were in a seven year relationship in which
you thought, as many young people in their twenties thing,
that you're gonna be with the person that you love

(11:22):
like that forever.

Speaker 5 (11:24):
Yeah, it was all I saw in my life was
just this person for the rest of it. Like I
actually never even went to the place where I would
be like, but what if it doesn't work? I just
never from the second I met him, I never I
never went there. I was like, always, this is my
person and this is the rest of my life.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
And how did you deal with that breakup? Being dealt information?
Which is okay, now, this is not what you had
to you know, had planned, you know. I think I
dealt with it the best I could. I dealt with it.

Speaker 5 (11:59):
I dealt with it, which is important, Yeah, you know,
And it was like obviously, uh like up and down
roller coaster journey.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
I think that was We're coming up on like almost
five years since that breakup.

Speaker 5 (12:14):
And there's been a lot of like realization since then,
like a lot of aha moments, and obviously the like
it's felt lonely and painful and confusing and all of
the feelings to be able to get to the different
aha moments, But like I do feel like I've let
him go and let that like dream of that future
go at this point when I was five years later,

(12:36):
which was pretty.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Cool and do you feel stronger because of the breakup?

Speaker 5 (12:41):
Yeah, I do feel I feel stronger, and I feel
like I've always had some level of connection to myself
and love for myself. Sometimes it's felt deeper down than
other times, but like it's gotten that tethered, Like myself
has gotten so much stronger, which in turn, I think

(13:02):
makes you stronger, made me stronger. So yeah, actually, I
know this sounds super dumb and cliche, but like, I'm
really happy it happened.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
But that's I think. That's that's the point I'm trying
to make to all of our listeners is that you know,
when you do break up, and we have these ideas
and we have these attachments to outcomes, not even to
the person necessarily, but to the outcome of the situation.
It's like if you knew if you weren't looking at
a relationship and you were just looking at like a
math equation, and you're like, okay, two plus two, Okay,

(13:34):
break a relationship plus a breakup is going to equal this. Yeah,
meaning you're going to get stronger, you're going to get wiser,
you're going to get closer to yourself. These are all
the things that are going to happen because of this heartbreak.

Speaker 5 (13:45):
Yeah, and the journey of the heartbreak is so nonlinear
that and sometimes feels impossible and pitiful and just hopeless.
That It's like it is when you're in that position
in the low times, it seems impossible to believe that equation.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
But you know what I did last night, actually that
is on this topic.

Speaker 5 (14:05):
I journal a lot, which is where a lot of
my poetry comes from.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
And you can write everything, and I handwrite.

Speaker 5 (14:12):
Yeah, I love handwriting because I feel like, like when
I'm angry, like my writing's angry when I'm like feeling grounded.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
My writing is beautiful when I'm and.

Speaker 5 (14:20):
Like it's just just a cool cathartic expression. But every
time I finish a journal, I have this like ritual
where I go through it and I kind of read
back what I was writing about and experiencing, and then
I rip up the pages. Sometimes I burn them. Sometimes
I flush them down the toilet, throw it all away,
and it's like a light sage. It's like a whole
like thing to cleanse from that. And last night I

(14:41):
finished a journal and I went through it, and I
was reading the things at the beginning of my journal
and you know, my current.

Speaker 1 (14:49):
Kind of things that I'm like a heartbreak journey that
I'm on.

Speaker 5 (14:53):
I'm like I was having all these same thoughts that
kind of reoccur that I feel now, but I was
having so much more of them and they were so
much more like hysterical and had like a stronger hold
on me than they do now. Just like nice to
see like even though I'm still feeling these things and
having these thoughts, like there's been a growth.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Well, and I like what you say about going through it,
because that is a choice.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
You can choose to like do the work journal, go
to therapy, cry about it whatever, or you can choose
to like distract yourself just jump into another relationship. Like
it is an act of choice to decide to deal
with the feelings as they come up, and.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Also to blame, like to blame the X or you know,
so many people can do that, whether you're you know,
you know, it's not about just being a woman. Men
can do that too, Like, it doesn't matter whose fault
it is when something's over, it matters how you pick
yourself back up, Like that's the most important thing is
how you are going to restore your energy, your faith

(15:55):
in yourself and how you're going to provide for yourself,
Like it's not about other people coming in to see,
it's about you saving yourself. And I think that's something
that we always forget, you know, like we always forget
you want to be like, well, he's an asshole, and
even your friends will be like he's I can't believe
he's strung you along like that, or he's he's garbage.
It's like, it's not about him, and it doesn't help

(16:16):
to have that energy towards anyone.

Speaker 5 (16:18):
Anyway, although I will say I think that that is
sometimes a necessary phase of the getting too definitely, you know,
like it's it's not the end goal, and it's not
the core of what's happening, right, it's everyone's you know,
trying their best.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Trying their best. I don't know.

Speaker 5 (16:39):
The thing is like it's actually sad. I'm kind of feeling.
And look, maybe when I'm a male lion I will
have a different perspective, but I'm kind of feeling right
now in my life like everyone is trying their best,
and even the really shittiest of the shitty, like awful,
vile people of the world, Like it's actually sad. To

(16:59):
realize is that because of whatever their circumstance.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
That is that a service like the best.

Speaker 5 (17:06):
It's kind of heartbreaking to to realize that, but it
also is almost like a relief, and it also is
it makes it easier to kind of have empathy for
myself that like even in my past, so when I've
handled things now not the way I would handle it
now or not the way like even now I handle
things Like I sent a text last week and my
therapist was like, now, what would you rate that text?
Like what grade would you give that text?

Speaker 1 (17:27):
I was like, probably a B minus. She was like, hmm, interesting.
But it's like, but you know, in that moment, I
was trying my.

Speaker 5 (17:36):
Bet, like I literally could not have done better in
that moment, and I'm trying to learn from how if
that type of moment comes up next time, maybe my
best would be better.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
I think in those moments, if you're in a B
minus mood, don't send the tex. You don't send the text.
You're like, I have to wait for my mood to
get back to recalibrate.

Speaker 5 (17:53):
BE minus is a passing grade, like I was like,
I feel like this is better to do it and
act upon then to well, we didn't ignore her, but
you know.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
B minus is it's not the thing. This is what's
cool is that three years ago, if I was.

Speaker 5 (18:07):
In this exact same position, I would have done something
that was like an f.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
Right like so you know improvement.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (18:16):
I like to think that at all times I am
doing the best I can in the moment. And if
I'm doing that, then that's how we all are, no
matter what our predisposition is that the right word?

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah, and your personality. I'm going to read another poem
that I want to share with our audience. Okay, I
like this, Chelsea.

Speaker 3 (18:36):
It's excited to read to each other a lot on
this show.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
About books a lot on this show, and you read
a lot.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
It sounds like I want to ask you because you
recently poem. I don't know how long ago this was,
but posted like a very cute thirst trap with a
Brandon Sanderson novel.

Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, are you like.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
I've ever posted? I was like, is this born?

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Like?

Speaker 1 (18:56):
My friends were like do it?

Speaker 4 (18:59):
So?

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Are you loving those books? Did you get through? Because
I'm sort of toying with reading. It's like a sack
of books that's like as tall as a person.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
The way of Kings.

Speaker 5 (19:07):
I haven't gotten. To be honest with you, I haven't.
I then got distracted and got into more Cord of
Thorns and Roses books, but I have read probably like
ten Brandon san have you read any.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
Of rand I haven't read any because I'm like, if
I read one, I'm probably gonna to read that.

Speaker 5 (19:22):
That's the I would start with the miss Born trilogy.
Those are actually my three favorite books of all Tage
What kind.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Of genre is? It's fantasy.

Speaker 5 (19:30):
It's like pure fantasy, like world building, but it's also
like the way that Brandon Sanderson writes. It's not like
it's not smut. It's very PG sometimes PG thirteen, Ok,
but it's like very metaphorical. It's like deeply thought provoking
and powerful, but also just like so fun and I

(19:50):
love just getting lost and magic and there is romance,
but it's again it's like, this reminds me of a
Disney World post you once posted when you went to
Disney World.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
You're obsessed with Disney love it, you love it today.
I remember seeing you post that and I was like, oh,
because I am not, I am not, And I was like,
to Disneyland. You know, I've been there, done. But let
me Okay, this is a really cute one and every
audience member or audience listener is going to relate to this.

(20:23):
It's called Bestie, Hot, Pink Heart, Blue, I come home,
I come for you. Plug you in twice a month,
plug me up twice in a row, just me. Can't
sleep hard week? You're always hard? Aren't you? A little
less empty inside? That is really really cute. I just
love it. And I'm talking about my best friend. Yes, yes, yes,

(20:47):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
You said your team would not let you put a
vibrator on the cover of this.

Speaker 5 (20:51):
Yeah, it was a real conversation. It was a real conversation.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
But you know my Lily.

Speaker 5 (20:57):
Kravitz, who designed the book and has been my friend
since well, I say at the beginning of the book,
she's was the first person to ever see me dangle
car keys off my erect nipple.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
And that's trip erection, like a pretty impressive erection. They
can handle a whole gisha. Yeah, I was just thinking
about my own nipples when you were saying that, because
my nipples can get really hard and I've never used
the word erect with my nipples, and I will start
doing that.

Speaker 5 (21:27):
Yeah, it's like some nipples are deserving of the word
erects get really hard, they are serious of substantial.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
They don't say that way very long. It's just like
a seven year old man, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah,
so you probably won't get You don't know what I mean.
You haven't had sex with a seven year old. I
haven't had sex with a seven year old. Yeah, and
neither have I. Yeah, but I have had sex with
men who could be seventy or act like they're seventy,
or have the same erections as a seventy year old

(21:55):
exactly that. I hear what you're saying. Yeah, And okay,
wait back to your book. I want to talk about
how you So you've been writing, You've been journaling your
whole life, Like how did you leave my whole life?
When did you?

Speaker 5 (22:06):
I really started committing to the journal after the big
breakup almost five years ago, uh huh, because that was
a huge turning point in my life because I was
a kid and then I met that person and was
with him for almost eight years and then we broke
up and I was like out in the world for
the first time, like as just human, and so that
was a lot to process and you're an only child,

(22:28):
and I'm an only child.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
So do you have a really are you tight with
your parents? I'm tight with my parents. Yeah, I love them.
I really love them.

Speaker 4 (22:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (22:36):
Yeah, they're good people and they've tried, they've done their best,
you know, like they are.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
They've been really.

Speaker 5 (22:44):
Loving, supportive parents, which is and you know they still
love each other.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
They've been together since they were seventeen and eighteen. Wow
isn't that like amazing and also weird. I'm going, yeah, yeah, yeah,
but it's amazing. Yeah I like them.

Speaker 5 (22:58):
So yeah, I was a kid with my parents, and
I was a young adult with a man, and now
I'm a Haley person.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Now you're a Haley li ch or like catapults you,
like a breakout can sometimes like catapult you into adulthood,
especially if you were just a kid when you got
into that relationship.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
And did you lean on your parents a lot during
like or during any difficult time? Do you lean on
your therapist the most? Like who's your go to person?

Speaker 5 (23:23):
I think I've had different different people throughout my life,
like in relationship obviously, like your partner that you rely
on is your partner and my mom's like want the
closest person in my life and honestly has really grounded advice.
Like my mom's not really in it for the drama
with things I tell her about, she's like really productive,

(23:46):
but with her advice to me, it's nice. Obviously my therapist,
I shout out love her.

Speaker 1 (23:52):
Saw her this morning.

Speaker 5 (23:55):
And you know, friends, although sometimes that can I think
lead to if you rely on a friend too much,
it can lead to you know, codependent things and weird
patterns that happen and then they just get sick and
tired of you, or vice versa, and then it ruins
the friendship in a way.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Let's talk about the difference between codependence and interdependence for
a second, because I thought interdependence was codependence, and somebody
schooled me the other day and said, no, interdependence healthyvers
is a healthy But also I was reading this thing
that like when you couple up with someone, right when
you become you're in a relationship, it's almost impossible not
to become codependent. Even though codependent has a negative connotation,
when you look the phrases up, they're mostly identical interdependency

(24:36):
and codependency. So what do you have an idea of
what the different differentiation is.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
I kind of see it through my own lens, because
I mean, my husband and I we are a little
bit codependent, but I think mostly interdependent because we have sort.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Of opposite skill sets and so and it's sort of
like when one of us isn't able.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
To sort of pick up their end of the slack,
the other one kind of goes double time and you
can put into.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
The back here. That's why that's right. So, but I
think it's like mostly healthy.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
I think codependence is when it's like almost like needy
and you can't do anything without this other person, and
then that gets into like the other person sort of
being a little controlling sometimes, oh I.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
See, or when their problems become your problems and then
you have to like basically like you sacrifice your own
life for their life. That's correct or my worst form,
like I can't make a decision without this howing.

Speaker 5 (25:27):
Yes, And I definitely felt that in relationships totally. There's
a book called Codependent No More that I actually didn't finish.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
Reading, maybe because but there is I'm reminded of that.
I'm like, maybe I should revisit that book.

Speaker 5 (25:43):
But there's this concept that actually my very first meeting
with my therapist that I still talk to now. This
was probably almost ten years ago now. She listened to
me talk for like forty five minutes and then she
was like, I'm gonna get thing and show it to you,
and I was like okay, and she came back from

(26:04):
her little drawer with this piece of paper that had
a triangle on it. It's called the drama triangle. I'm
forgetting the dude that like invented it the concept of it.
Have you guys heard of the drama triangle?

Speaker 1 (26:15):
To speak more, it might be it might resident.

Speaker 5 (26:17):
There's like the dramatic codependent version of the triangle, which
has three points. One of the points is the bully,
one of the points is the victim, and one of
the points is the rescuer. And when you get sucked,
Like it's not like any of us right are like
always or naturally like anxious attached. It's like different situations

(26:42):
and relationships that bring things out in us, and so
like it's kind of the same idea with this triangle.
It's like there are certain people or situations dynamics that
like draw you onto the triangle, and then once.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
You draw or you're onto the triangle.

Speaker 5 (26:55):
You're just doing this dance, this like musical chairs dance,
you know, like around like playing these different roles, which
I think kind of ties into codependency and triangulation and
for everyone. Yeah, and then I was like she was
telling this to me, and I was like mind blown
because I was like, oh my god, I live like

(27:15):
ninety percent of my life on this gosh darn triangle, Like,
how the fuck do I get off? And she was like, well,
let me show you another piece of paper that she
showed me this other piece of paper that had like
the healthy triangle, which instead of the rescuer, there was
the cheerleader instead of the victim.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
You know, I'm not remembering, we just look it.

Speaker 5 (27:37):
Up, but the cheerleader was very important for me because
I think the way I got tied onto the triangle
all the time was wanting to rescue. And I'm like, now,
how can I like not take responsibility for you, but
like encourage you as someone that loves you so much
and wants the best for you to like make these
decisions for yourself.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
There's the coach instead of the bully.

Speaker 3 (27:57):
Oh there, oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
You've picked my care curiosity. I'm curious well, I see
all more work to do.

Speaker 5 (28:02):
I have to finish the codependent, finish, finish of Kings.

Speaker 2 (28:08):
I'll put a link to I'll find this online, put
a link to it in the triangle.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
I know you're a big dancer, like you kind of
came out here to dance, right, original dance and act. Yeah,
but my first like year here was mainly danced work
because I remember seeing your People magazine shoot and I
was like, I didn't know you were a dancer, and
that was just a really beautiful shoot. Yeah, there's like
video attached to it and everything. Yeah, I did. It
was a really beautiful and I had no idea. And

(28:35):
then you were in a Jonas Brother's video dancing because
you're a huge Jonas Brothers fan. Yes I am, and
I was. Some of my friends are like, Heley, are
you gonna like finally let that go now? And I'm
like I wish I could, but no, being such a
rabbid Jonas Brothers fan, how because I know they asked
you a question once like if you had to choose

(28:55):
one of their albums to take away on a dessert
on an island, which one would it be? And I
was like, they should have asked you which Jonas brother
it would have been. That's a better question, and so
let's figure out who that is. If you had to go,
I forget about their marriages, which and they're not married.
We're living in a different alternate reality. Which Jonas brother?
Would you want to be trapped on deserted island getting excited?

Speaker 3 (29:23):
We're going to make this a reality, by the way.

Speaker 5 (29:25):
So well, the thing is, obviously, you know, since I
was like eleven, I've been obsessed with Nicholas, So I
think I like kind of have to say him.

Speaker 6 (29:35):
I have never heard anyone Nicholas Nicholas, Jerry Jonas, that's
his name. There's just certain things you just don't forget
and you don't like, you know, I think we have
the answer.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
It's Nick Nicholas. Nicholas. How were you able to retain
your composure when you were on the set of that?
I didn't. I didn't. I had no self control.

Speaker 5 (29:55):
I was, like, fully just like my teeny bopper eleven
year old me like came out and that's how I
was behaving, and I had I had.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
No I had no control.

Speaker 5 (30:05):
So I was I was eleven, like I really was,
And honestly, it was beautiful.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
It was amazing. I wouldn't have wanted it to be
any other way.

Speaker 5 (30:15):
I wouldn't have wanted to like been processing it as
like twenty eight or hoever old I was at the
time year old me, Like I was just fully seeing
it through these like eyes of this little teeny bopper.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure they deal with that a lot.
I was crying all.

Speaker 5 (30:29):
The time, and I make the artist Jenna like just
kept having to like wipe the mask eara under my
eye because I was like just like smiling and my
cheeks are and I was just like constantly just like.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Tears would come out. Yeah, that was special. I was
once in a music video. I don't know if I've
ever spoken about that. I'm podcast this is funny story, Okay,
I did. I was like seventeen years old. I was
in New York City and I auditioned for this. It
was a band called Natural Selection, and I was hired
as like the pretty girl. The lead singer had to
like just sing to my face. So he was standing

(31:00):
across from me, and I had never worked before, never
done any gigs, and as soon as he started looking
like singing towards me, I my lips just they like
just were quivering, and it was so like embarrassing because I.

Speaker 6 (31:13):
Could feel it and I knew they were feeling just nerves,
so nervous, comfortable, and yeah, like I wouldn't be able
to do that if it were someone I knew saying
to me like that, I don't think.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
Yeah, I mean maybe now I could, but not smiling,
like that's fucking weird. Yeah, but at the time, I
just had no experience. It was almost like, you know, spasming,
like my face was smassming and I knew everyone could
see me, but I was seventeen years old. I had
no resources to be like. I was just like, fuck,
I'm gonna fall and burn right now. And then they
finally removed me and they're like, we'll just have you

(31:43):
as a background extra, you know, and they replaced me,
and it was, you know, one of my very first humiliations. Wow.
I was like, oh, got it. If I had known
about beta blockers, you know, that would have been a
much different story.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
You were not meant to be a video ho.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
Wow. You know I was a video ho a couple
of times.

Speaker 5 (32:00):
Yeah, I was, it's like seventeen, Yeah, for dance, like
there was like this. Actually there was supposed to be
a These boys had a band. They were brothers. They
were called Sonis. They were these Argentinian boys.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Sounds a lot like another band.

Speaker 5 (32:14):
Well, they honestly were like very inspired by and like
hoping to be like the Jonas Brothers, like which was
a big draw for me. Which but they did this
music video on the Venice boardwalk and I was like
each brother had like a love interest and I was,
I think the oldest brother's love interest.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
And uh, there was some singing to my face. Not
like that closed.

Speaker 5 (32:40):
I don't think I would have been able to handle that,
but there was like a lot of serenading and then
I would randomly like do a leap in the middle
of the boardwalk and yeah, I was a video.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
Ho.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Yeah, I mean I feel like music videos well I
guess they still do that, but I just like it
feels like it's a dated thing to be singing into
someone's face, you know what I mean. I mean, I'm
sure that still happens. When I was reading your book
of poetry, I was thinking that you remind me a
lot of Taylor Swift, like cool in terms of writing
all these things down like a lyricist, a poet, you

(33:11):
know that. And then I found out you wanted to
be a singer, right or you want to be a singer.

Speaker 5 (33:17):
There's like a a delusional dream I've had probably my
whole life that I would be an amazing pop star
because I'm like mall and I you know, can dance,
and I would look good in like metallic body suits,
and I have a lot of feelings. But I really
just can't sing, Like I don't have that skill set.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
And I've tried.

Speaker 5 (33:39):
My parents have spent a lot of money throughout the
course of my childhood on voice lessons and didn't work.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
It never worked. Hmmm.

Speaker 3 (33:48):
Yeah, I have a few other talents, that's okay.

Speaker 5 (33:49):
I have a couple others that I'm focusing on now.
But but yeah, I mean I love Taylor Swift.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
Yeah, are you swifty? I guess I am now. I
mean it's kind of hard to be like, it's hard
not time swifty, I think now too, like my level
of interest and the understanding of the impact that she's
had not only on the music industry and for women
coming after her, on all women and all these little girls,
like this is the happiest news we've gotten in six

(34:17):
months engagement. First of all, she was on the podcast
that was like happiness, and then you find out about
the engagement. It's like she's almost singularly responsible for our joy, right.

Speaker 5 (34:28):
Yes, because like thinking we've been rooting for her, like
because we relate through her heartbreak and these things that
she like honestly very generously shares with us, like so
that we can feel like not alone, which is a
big inspiration for me wanting to like give these you know,
poems to the to the world because it's like, I

(34:49):
know what that can do for me when I listen
to music like Taylor.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
And so we're like rooting for her to.

Speaker 5 (34:54):
Like be happy and like have someone choose her, and
this fucking haughty chose her.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
And then the exact way the only way to go
after someone like that, which is what he did, Like
he shot his shot. Yeah, and it fucking worked out.

Speaker 4 (35:10):
I met you.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
No one else did that, I know, no one else
tried to do that except for him, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 5 (35:14):
And he seems obviously don't know these people, but he
seems like a pretty secure dude, ye, And she deserves
that and needs that.

Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, So that's I mean I'm really happy for her.

Speaker 5 (35:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, it is happy making. It's happy making. And when
I was watching this Instagram video about this little girl
and her she was asking her mom if they were
going to Taylor Swift to travel Taylor Swift's wedding. She
was like, Mommy, are we going to the wedding? And
she's like, no, honey, We're probably not going to the
wa And then she's like, but why wouldn't we go?
Like we love Taylor? And I was like, the mom
was like, no, like, honey, we love Taylor because we've

(35:47):
seen we listened to her music and her pictures, but
she doesn't know who we are. And then the little
girl goes, huh, anyway, can you put on hot to go?
I was like, what a cute video?

Speaker 5 (35:59):
Is cute?

Speaker 1 (36:00):
I want to see that? Wow?

Speaker 5 (36:02):
Yeah, I mean she is very poetic, and I honestly like,
I've always listened to Taylor Swift throughout my life. When
I was like thirteen or something was probably it was
like pivotal that song for me and so, but I
never really considered myself a swiftye or really like gave
into my like full like love and respect for Taylor

(36:24):
Swift as like a artist and like amazing force person
in the world. But I went to the Era's tour
in Atlanta because I wanted to see b Badoobie, who's
this sweet girl I know who was opening for her
and I love her music, and she got me a
ticket and so I was like, sure.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
I'll fly to Atlanta and watch b Badooby and then
stay for the Taylor Swift concert.

Speaker 5 (36:46):
And I stayed for the freaking Eras tour and I
was just like, I knew maybe a third of the songs,
but I was like, cause I kind of missed like
the folklore other albums Eras. But I was like, I
was like, it's possible to be at that concert and
watch her presence and her impact and like.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
Not be so blown away. Yeah yeah, and inspired and impressed.

Speaker 5 (37:09):
And then I ended up going to the Aerostore in
LA and at that point I knew every single song
and was.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
Swifty so and the other thing I do love not
that this is a podcast about Taylor Swift on you
never talked about Taylor Swift on this podcast, ABHIV, But
because your poetry does remind me of her writing, like
it is kind of you know, her writing is poetry.
But the other thing is how beautiful the family dynamic.
It was, how her parents have crafted like and it
sounds like you come from a similar structured, loving, normal

(37:39):
family that are like solid because it could go one
of two ways. And we've seen the disasters with all
of these, you know, young people who become famous and
when their parents aren't on solid ground and they aren't grounded,
it's a disaster. And then look at like the beauty
and like you're such a like ray of light. Look
at what your parents did for you, you know, they ray
of light. I'm a breath of fresh air. You're a

(38:00):
ray of light. Yeah, a woman, You're you're a Yeah,
you're a well man. So like, I mean, it's just
nice to see the impact of good parenting. I chose
not to become a parent because I would don't have
time for that ship, you know, And I feel like
that's a very responsible decision to make good for you.
If you're not going to be an A plus parent,
then you should have become a parent.

Speaker 5 (38:21):
Yeah. If you're not going to send the A plus text,
then don't send the text.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah. I got to learn these things now so I
don't become a B plus or minus minus our B
minus person. Yeah, yeah, you're not a B minus person.
Thank you, B plus or definitely.

Speaker 5 (38:38):
Yeah, you're in the A zone you But yeah, my
parents shout out to them.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
Yeah, no, no, I can tell that you have good parents.
I can already tell that.

Speaker 5 (38:45):
They They have like always believed in me and always
loved me. And I think that that is unfortunately rare.
It's something that now like thirty and looking back and
now having this like adult relationship with my parents, I'm like,

(39:07):
you guys were really great. Like you guys really like
supported me and made this life that I live possible,
and they're great.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
They're also like a fun hang. Do you really think
that's rare to be loved and believed in?

Speaker 5 (39:23):
I do think being like deeply believed in, Like the
sacrifice my parents made to like let me leave high
school at sixteen and move to LA and like give
up whatever money they were saving for a college experience
for me and like be away from each other for
a year and a half while my mom lived with
me in LA and my dad was back in Arizona,
like put their lives on hold to like make that

(39:47):
Like that is something that I like people that I
know their parents didn't do that for them and wouldn't right.
And there's people that I even know that they wanted
to like do something unconventional or more like not even unconventional,
but just like arts or something not good and their
parents like encouraged them not to because of X, Y
and Z. And it's like, my parents didn't just encourage me,

(40:09):
not they they sacrificed and like made it possible for me,
which I do think is rare.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
Right.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
Yeah, on that note, we're going to take a break
and we'll be right back with Haleelu Richardson. And we're
back with Haleelu richards and her new book of poetry,
which is called Sad and Horny. Oh sorry, which you
so what?

Speaker 5 (40:35):
That was a question in my publisher was like, are
you sure you don't want to call it sad and Horny?
And I really thought about it because actually, originally I
wanted to call the book I'm sad and horny by
this book because like I just wanted the desperate, the
like aware desperation to be a part of the title.
And they really I had multiple people encouraged me to
get rid of the buy this book, and I agreed

(40:56):
with that, but my publisher was like, are you sure
you want that? I'm because sad and horny is just
so like a thing, and I'm like, you know, I
thought about it, and I was like, I really want
the I'm because it's so personal.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
You own it and I own it.

Speaker 5 (41:09):
And then it's like also the question of like, oh,
what are you reading I'm sad and horny.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
I liked that conversation. Yea happening, So yeah, great, great,
we're going to take some callers and we're going to
give some advice. There's callers.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Yeah, oh cool.

Speaker 1 (41:27):
Yeah, and then I'm glad you're all therapies because that's
going to help you give out some of the Okay, cool.

Speaker 4 (41:32):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
So our first caller is Brie. She's thirty seven.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a thirty seven year old woman,
and I found myself in a precarious situation. For my
entire adult life, I prided myself on my ability to
remain faithful in any and all of my relationships. I
had never cheated and had a very negative perspective toward
the idea of cheating. I was in a faithful and
monogamous although toxic relationship from twenty five to thirty three,
and after ending that, I spent four months being single

(41:58):
and dating my now ex Adam. After almost two and
a half years together, I started to realize that Adam
and I were not compatible, However I didn't initially act
on it.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
About four months ago, I started to pay more.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
Attention to one of my male coworkers, Bryce, even though
we've worked together for years. Something changed and I found
myself thinking about him outside of work. After finding a
work related reason to initiate a text to him, we
began texting regularly.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
Within a few weeks, we.

Speaker 2 (42:23):
Were talking all day at work, taking private walks on
our breaks, and texting all night.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
Needless to say, my partner had no idea.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
This quickly led to us confessing our feelings for one another,
kissing when we had the chance, holding hands on walks,
and pretty soon admitting that we were falling for one another.
I decided at this point that I needed to end
things with Adam and chose not to move forward physically
with Bryce until I did so. However, that did not
stop us from making verbal plans to be together. Once
I ended things with Adam, Here's where things change. Fast

(42:52):
forward to about eight weeks ago. I broke things off
with Adam and moved out into my own place. Following this,
things between Bryce and I began to slow down, and
I noticed a growing distance between us, which I assumed
was because both of us kind of had a realization
that things were moving along quite quickly. Day by day,
our communication dwindled until last week and we decided to
take a step back with things until we both have

(43:13):
our shit figured out and we know what we want.
I'm the one who suggested this because I sensed him
pulling away, almost as if I was trying to beat
him to the punch my dilemma.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
I feel heartbroken.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
I know that ultimately I'm likely still grieving the relationship
with Adam as well, but I cannot get Bryce off
my mind. I recognize that my abandonment issues and attachment
style tie into this, but my question is how can
I find a way to move forward with Bryce?

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Given that we work together. When I say we're coworkers,
we do not just work for the same company.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
We sit next to each other a few feet away
multiple days a week. Although I'm grateful that I still
get to see him, I know that working with him
is going to make this very difficult. We're both fairly
mature and are serious about our careers, so I know
that we'll both do our best to try and maintain
an amicable dynamic at work, especially given that we ended
things mutually. However, I'm having a hard time seeing his
face on a day basis. I've never been in a

(44:02):
situation like this, both in terms of infidelity and the
relationship with a coworker.

Speaker 3 (44:06):
Any advice to help me navigate this challenge, Brie?

Speaker 1 (44:09):
Right, Oh my gosh, you're a real person. Bray, we're here,
You're real. Oh my god. This is Haley lou Richardson,
our special guest today.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
Hi, nice to meet you.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
Nice to meet you, Brie. Thanks for sharing that. Somebody
once told me, when you're in a relationship that's kind
of stale, there's a person who gets you out of
that relationship, and you can sometimes confuse that with like, oh,
I'm in love. Like sometimes you just need to get
out of the position A and move into position B.
And sometimes that only will happen if somebody else comes

(44:43):
around and like lures you away. So this is a
huge opportunity for you for growth, for learning, forgetting to
know yourself, you have to embrace your womanhood, which we've
been discussing. You have to embrace your womanhood right now.
You can handle anything. You're a woman. We can fucking
do anything. You're fierce, powerful and you're resilient. That's what
you have to sell yourself every single morning when you

(45:03):
wake up or before you walk into the office and
think you're gonna melt when you see him. You're stronger
than him. Okay, just remember women are stronger than men.
And that's not sexist, it's true. So I guess so
so like you have the total you're in the driving
driver's seat. You ended things, you know, and the driver's
seat isn't important. But you just have to know as
a woman, you are so powerful you if you want

(45:24):
this to happen with this guy at work, it can happen.
But respect the fact that you just got out of
something and going straight into something isn't really going to
be the most valuable lesson in your life. The more
valuable lesson. And if you want to, like I always say,
I like, I like to make the first time the
last time, Like I don't want to learn the same
lessons twice, and I don't want to go to summer school.

(45:46):
I want to go to Maerica, you know what I mean.
So when there's an opportunity to be mature or easy
and like give in to your lustfulness or your desires,
it's not forever. It's not like you have to do
this for months and months or whatever. But just choose
your higher self and be like, Okay, I just got
out of a long term relationship. The most sensible thing

(46:07):
to do is like, what would you tell your daughter
to do in this situation? If you had a daughter,
what would you say to her? You would say, take
some time regroup. You can have this little flirtation. You
had a flirtation with this guy. It's going to redevelop you.
Just keep your distance and be in the driver's seat
because that's what you are. You are in the driver's seat,
and you could completely control yourself. I know you can.

Speaker 7 (46:30):
I like that, you know what. That's actually great advice.
You are kind of making the point that I feel
like maybe I'm almost giving him the power. Yeah, and
I need to kind of take that back.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4 (46:42):
Really that's really good advice.

Speaker 7 (46:44):
And also to your first point, sometimes we just need
that one person to get us out of the initial
you know, uh, slow loading scale. I like that.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
I'm going to hold on to that.

Speaker 4 (46:55):
That's actually really great advice.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
It was a guy that was having an affair and
he said, I was with two guys who had both
left their wives for other women, and they had been
married to their new wives forever. But they said they
both had the woman they had an affair with got
them out of their marriages and then they ended up
with different women. And there was like and they had
a term for it, and I was like, oh, I'm like, well,
I'm going to take that for women. Hayley, Do you agree?

(47:18):
What do you think I agree with?

Speaker 5 (47:19):
I mean, you want you to be my therapist, but
you also just like you say really like emotionally deep
true things, but you say it like it fucking is
that's so cool to like it must feel so nice
to be getting that advice in that way.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yeah, I completely agree.

Speaker 5 (47:36):
And I also just like actually really commend you because
I think you seem like a like a very aware,
thoughtful person, like the way you go through life, even
like your awareness of the ways that you were unfaithful
in the end of the relationship. Like I'm impressed by
the fact that whatever it was that this guy Bryce

(47:57):
was showing and that attraction was showing you, that was
making it clear to you had to get out of
the relationship with Adam. You know, there were times where
the powerful woman that was making the decisions and in
control of your actions maybe went to the uh, you know,
passenger seat or in the back seat and something else
was taking over. But like you never let you get

(48:20):
like stuffed in the trunk and just like fully act
out of passion, need instinct, lust, out of control, And
like I find that really press honorable.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
So I mean, whatever, if.

Speaker 5 (48:32):
There's a part of you, I don't know, if there's
a part of you that like feels guilty or like
a shame, like see that as like whatever, healthy shame,
So you don't do that again and hurt yourself and
someone else in a way that you wouldn't want to
again if you were in a similar situation. But also
just like really like, I think it's pretty cool the
awareness you had through through all of that.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Right to not like go full throttle with an affair
sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
Yeah, yeah, agreed, So good for you on both fronts. Yeah,
So just gear up and go back to work like
the badass woman that you are and handle.

Speaker 7 (49:04):
It you so much. I feel like I just needed
a little bit of a push. I actually really appreciate.
This is not something that obviously I can talk to about.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
Yeah, with most people, right, I know, you know what
I mean, I can't. I'm not calling up my.

Speaker 7 (49:18):
Mom or another coworker or friends. So I appreciate it.
I just kind of needed another woman's perspectives and that
all makes a lot of sense. And also, thank you
for touching on the guilt and the shame, because of
course that's you know, kind of floating around in the
back of my head or in my part, I should say, so,
I appreciate that.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
I awesome. Awesome you guys, well, thanks for calling in.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
Thank you, ladies.

Speaker 7 (49:40):
I appreciate your time today.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Absolutely, Vibrie, I've got this if I feel the same
way I've had, like you got it.

Speaker 3 (49:48):
You got it.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
That was like a perfect color. Yeah, wow, perfect Because
people call in with these kinds of serious things. I mean,
that is serious. But she wasn't broken, you know what
I mean. Some people do call in and they're broken
and like and then it's like you can't talk to
them like that she had like a real like awareness.

Speaker 5 (50:05):
It was really even like through that hard time because
like the end of her Like it's hard to be
at the end of a relationship and something not working,
especially if you can't admit it to yourself, then you
can't admit it to the other person and then something
out of control happens. That's like hurtful, And I feel
like she actually had a lot of self self awareness.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
There's also this idea that like when there's an attraction,
like we we can't help ourselves and it's just so silly.
It's like we can all help ourselves. You don't have
to fuck your fucking coworker while you're still in a relationship.
That's such a man thing to do, you know, like
you have to have accountability, like leaving the relationship.

Speaker 5 (50:46):
What Well, I just had this like hearing you say
you can't help I can't help myself is like I
just had another meaning of that of like, but you
can help yourself, like whatever you are searching for in
that connection and are trying to get from that external thing,
Like it's like I can't help myself, but actually you
can always help your right WHOA, Yeah, I cave.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
It as now I have a double meaning too.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Okay, great, Well.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Our next question comes from Lauren, and she says, Dear Chelsea,
I'm a thirty three year old therapist in Saint Louis.
I love my job and the life I've built here,
but the dating scene is so challenging. I ended a
long term relationship three years ago and have been trying
everything to meet new people dating apps, singles, events, networking parties,
you name it, I've done it.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
I'm also in maybe the only career that I can't
meet people at work, confidentiality and all. She's a she's
a therapist. I realized that, but yeah, she's a therapist.
I made the decision to move to a new city.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
To experience dating somewhere else. I love advice on how
to make connections and meet singles in a city I
don't know anyone in. You're such an inspiration things for
all you do, Lauren.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Well, that's easier than Hi. Hi, Lauren, Hi, Hi, This
is Haley lou Richardson our special guest today, Aldy.

Speaker 4 (52:03):
It's so good to see guy.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
It's nice to meet you.

Speaker 2 (52:05):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
Lauren. First of all, great for taking the situation and
doing something about it and moving to a different city.
That's great proactive behavior. And as a therapist you probably
already know that. But I think you just have to
put yourself out there in every way possible. You have
to join all sorts of clubs you don't give a
shit about, just like you start join a runners club,

(52:27):
join a biker. What city are you in, by the way.

Speaker 4 (52:30):
I'm in Saint Louis, but I'm moving to Madison, Wisconsin.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Okay, great, jeez, you can you can? I mean you
can join like kayaking, you know, on Saturday mornings. You
could do a paddle board class. You could do all
sorts of shit. But think about things in that like
that are going to yield a more of like an
intersexual kind of community. You don't want to obviously, take
ballet class lessons, you know, like that's not gonna I mean,
you're not gonna meet men. But think of things, and

(52:54):
I'm just saying things off the top of my head,
but really sit down and make a list of like
activities that you'd be down to do. Tennis. If you
want to take like tennis lessons, join a tennis club.
You don't have to join a country club. You can
join a tennis club, and you can join a biking club,
you can join a runner's club. All of those are
going to yield both sexes. So you're going to meet friends,

(53:15):
and you're going to and if you're in a new city,
you're gonna need some new friends. Anyway, you're going to
meet people that way, and don't give up on the
dating sites. Like I understand that they sometimes feel like,
oh god, you know, like it's overwhelming or it's so
depressing because you go on these dates and you're like,
this is all that's out there. It's it's trial and
error like everything else in life. And like, if you
really have a desire to meet somebody, then it's up

(53:37):
to you to make that happen. And you're gonna, like,
you know, push yourself a little bit further. Even if
you're like, oh, like I don't want to do my
fucking Spanish homework. I'm not in the mood, but I
know I'm gonna do it because I want to get
better at learning Spanish. You're going to go on that date.
Maybe you don't feel like up for it, but that's
one step closer to finding the person that you want.
And if a partner. Is that important to you, then
you have to make that like a top line priority.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
Likeat it, like yeah, treat it like a job. And
also I think.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
People forget the value of like asking the cute guy
in line at the coffee shop for his number, you know,
like just be ballsy and make some like conversation and.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
They're like, can I guess your number?

Speaker 1 (54:12):
Yes. That's a great point, Catherine, because everyone would think
that I do whatever I want when I want, and
I have all this confidence, right, I have missed so
many opportunities by not addressing a man that I've seen
at a party or in a store or something like
where I've wanted to be like, oh that guy's hot,
you know, or like I'm trying to catch his eye
and just stupid, Like I should have just walked up

(54:33):
to the table and been like, hey, I think you're
pretty cute. Here's my number. That's what the advice I
would give to anyone. Yet there are many times where
I have not done that, and all I do when
that's the only thing I think I regret in my
life is not actually being as bold as people think
I am with regard to like meeting guys or hooking up.
What do you have to lose? Who gives a shit?
You don't even know the person. So if if they're

(54:54):
not into you, who cares? You know what I mean?
Like you kind of have to grab life by the balls.
Especially now, it's like if that's such an important thing
to you, you really have to just do everything to
make it happen. So that would be my advice. I mean,
Haley's single too. Right now, I'm gonna say I'm kind
of in your boat.

Speaker 5 (55:12):
Kind of in your boat, but I do actually feel
like I act on on the boldness, I guess, or
just like the saying like my thing is, I just am.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Like, hey, I just wanted to tell you you're really handsome.

Speaker 5 (55:26):
And you know, sometimes it unless it's like a nice
response and there's like maybe just like a little night
like maybe they don't ask for my number or nothing
ever happens, but it's just like, oh, I had a
little connection and they told me I was cute too,
and that's like kind of.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
A nice little That's actually a perfect way to do
it because that's so and like that's that's such a
sweet way to do it because it's so charming, like
it's not like, Hey, I want to fuck you, here's
my phone number, which is what I would do. But
I mean I haven't exercised that right and nearly as
much as I but I think you're really handsome. Who's
that gonna love?

Speaker 4 (56:00):
You?

Speaker 1 (56:00):
Know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (56:01):
Yeah, no one, No one that I've done that too
hasn't loved it. Like the worst that I get is
like a.

Speaker 1 (56:06):
Oh, thanks, right to go on with their life. And
I'm like, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah exactly, but yeah, I'm
really in your boat, so I don't.

Speaker 5 (56:15):
I feel like I was listening to her advice and
maybe the same way you were, but just I guess
if there's.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
Anything no that you're not alone.

Speaker 5 (56:23):
There are a lot of us out on the apps
getting sick and tired of the apps, deleting the apps,
thinking they're in love with a waiter because he looked
at her in a certain way, like sliding into someone's
DMS that's on love Island and never getting a response.
Like I mean, like I've done, I've done wild things
and none of it's been really successful yet, and I'm

(56:43):
just like trying to hold on to hope and not
become bitter.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
So right there with you, Lauren, I've tried sliding into
some dms of Love Island because.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
I not always Love Island, but definitely other shows for
sure amazing.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
Have you gotten responses? Because I literally haven't, and I'm like, wait, what.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
I have a new check mark?

Speaker 1 (57:05):
Yeah? Yeah, you're like, what's this same thing for? If
I can't get what I want.

Speaker 4 (57:08):
I definitely need to try to be more bold. I
feel like I fall into the friendship aspect, like I
need to, you know, up my flirting and just like
be confident with it and fake it till I make it.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Yeah, and be active on those dating sites, like just
get on all of them and be active and be
forward about what you're looking for, Like I'm looking for
a relationship. I just always think the more you do
of something, the quicker you're going to get to where
you're going. There's gonna be a lot of rejects or
people that you're not interested in, But in doing that,
you're kind of getting all that stuff out of the
way and getting closer to the person that you will

(57:41):
be into and that you will want to have a
relationship with.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
It's a total number name and you listen.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
You have everything on your side. You're in a brand
new city. The options are endless, you know, and you're
acutie and beauty and people are getting divorced every single day,
so there's something else to think about, you like what
I do?

Speaker 3 (57:58):
Think about that?

Speaker 1 (58:00):
Yeah, maybe you'll get someone on their second time around. Yeah,
oyster is our oyster, all.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
Right, Lauren and Hayley. We'll need you both to follow
up when you put this into practice.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
Yeah, we'll see.

Speaker 5 (58:13):
I'll let you know if any of the Love Island
contestants ever get back, and.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
I'll see you. I'm coming on tour next year to Madison,
so I'll see you there hopefully.

Speaker 4 (58:21):
Oh amazing. Yes, I will definitely see you there. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Okay, have a great day, bye, Lauren, Hie.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
You know what my my sister in law did, which
obviously worked out for her because she's my sister in
law now. She came home from like visiting family in
Ireland who were like teasing her because she was thirty
and not married, which is silly, but she felt some
kind of way about it, so she just decided to.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Like make it her job to go on all these days.

Speaker 2 (58:45):
She went on like one or two dates every single day,
and here was her trick, she goes, I had in
order to not repeat outfits with the same guy. She goes,
I had a first date outfit that I would wear
on all my first dates, a second date outfit, a
third date outfit, and most of them didn't get past
dight three. Eventually she found my brother in law and
they were like, how are you so single? And you know,
fell in love and got married, but she goes by
the end of that, my first date outfit was like

(59:05):
raggedy because they weren't so many times, but it was just.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
Like, she's just a numbers game. Yes, wow, armpitstains.

Speaker 5 (59:12):
Wow. Okay, I mean honestly, that is hopeful to me
because there's so many like especially like my parents and
people of their generation, don't get that, like don't get
the dating apps of putting yourself out there, so they're like, well,
don't you just want to just live your life and
let the person find you?

Speaker 1 (59:31):
And I'm like, that's what I've.

Speaker 8 (59:33):
Been doing it for years and ideally yes, but we
live in and we live in the technology age, so
it's just like a numbers game, and like, that's how
so many people are operating.

Speaker 1 (59:44):
They don't want to waste a night going out to
a bar or going out to a restaurant or whatever,
because they're like, oh, I'm going to save that for
my date night, you know what I mean. Some people
or like orchestrate their entire or organize their lives around that.
So it's like kind of like that's the age we're
living in. So there's nothing wrong with it. We're going
to take a break and we're going to be right
back to wrap up with Haley Loop and we're back

(01:00:07):
with Hailey lu Richardson. Who's gonna I guess, you know,
turn on all your apps when you leave here and
just get I mean ready, I'm actually enjoying. I'm actually
enjoying yourself. I'm enjoying myself. I know, I'm like and
also I'm so as your vibrator, So I'm enjoying myself.
I'm enjoying.

Speaker 5 (01:00:23):
I have multiple besties these days, different shapes for different moods.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
I love them all equally, so I have a pretty
good crew. We're in a polyamorous relationship. I love different
shapes for different moods. I would love to see a
chart on that at some point. Wow. The book is
called her Book of Poetry, which is great and really
funny and sad at times but poignant. It's called I'm

(01:00:51):
Sad and Horny and so please get yourself a copy.
And well, I mean you're just absolutely delightful. Thank you,
so are you both? Yes, thank you for coming. You
really brightened up my day to day. I was having
a shit show this morning. Yes, yes, yes, I wouldn't
you've I felt that at all. Great, but sorry, but
thank you. I mean you really came in like a
ray of sunshine. Okay, I meant that, thank you. I

(01:01:12):
feel the same way. This was fun. Now I want
a podcast. This is so fun.

Speaker 9 (01:01:19):
The word of the week is avaricious adjective greedy of gain,
excessively seeking to hoard riches, avaricious zorin Mamdanie won the
New York City mayoral race because people are tired of
landlords who have become too avaricious avaricious.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
I just announced all my tour dates. They just went
on sale this week. It's called the High and Mighty Tour.
I will be starting in February of next year, so
I will be touring from February through June. So go
get your tickets now if you want good seats, and
you want to come see me perform, I will be
on the High and Mighty tour.

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
Do you want advice from Chelsea?

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
Right into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com. Find
full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching at.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
Dear Chelsea Pod.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive
producer Catherine law And be sure to check out our
merch at Chelseahandler dot com