Hard to Penetrate with Sophia Bush

Hard to Penetrate with Sophia Bush

Description:

Sophia Bush joins Chelsea to discuss using her wedding to spread awareness of history, how her treasured memories are turning into clutter, and why most of us don’t realize we’ve been steeped in the tea of the patriarchy. Then: A new mom with one on the way discovers her husband has been seduced by conspiracy theories. A widow turns to travel and comedy to deal with her grief.  And a wife wonders if she does, indeed, have a sugar daddy.

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Produced by Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert

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The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, Hello, Hello, how are you this morning. I'm good,
I'm good. How was your vacation? Oh my god, it
was so good? Oh yeah, yeah, Oh my gosh, it
was wonderfault. We stayed at the Weston Resort that had
waterfalls and slides and all kinds of things, and of
course I like did all the kitty water slides, which

(00:22):
was very fun. And then we went to the wedding
at the Four Seasons on Maui, the White Lotus Hotel.
Oh yeah, oh cute. So that was fun. I remember
when Connie Britton was filming there, She's like, this place's magic,
come visit because it was all closed off for COVID. Mmmmmm,
Hi Brad, Hi Brad you guys, Chelsea. I have to

(00:45):
say I love that you caught the ire of Tucker
Carlson and those motherfuckers. I take a lot of pleasure
in that. Yeah, your response was pretty epic, though, it
was pretty Oh thanks. Can you imagine having a conversation
about women drying? In twenty twenty three, somebody wrote there
parodying misogyny, like it it's not even how you really

(01:07):
are misogynistic anymore. It's so ridiculous, it's so basic intellectual
like women hating. I just love men telling us how
miserable we are, because what the fuck do you care
what we're doing? You fucking go get a life. Oh
imagine reporting on me and my childless video as a

(01:28):
news anchor. His hot takes, his hot takes. There's any
more hot takes? We need it. It's not from Tucker Carlson.
Oh my god, serio journalism. Are we calling that journalist? No,
it's not journalism. I don't even think he claims to
be a journalist. He's just talking. He's like an entertainer, yes,
a personality, if you will, just like me, I also

(01:49):
have a personality, indeed, you dude, And when those two
personalities collide, it makes for entertainment, makes for very very
good content. You must be so sad up there, surrounded
by friends and family, having the time of your life
on a mountaintop. I know, I was sitting in my underwear.
It was so funny. I was lying in bed, just

(02:09):
like he thought I would be. I was lying in bed,
and I was taking the day off from skiing because
I had to I had to read a script. I
had to read all this stuff. I'm sitting in bed
and then I get all these alerts from like, you know,
people going have you seen this? Have you seen this?
And after like the sixteenth one, I'm like, I guess
I'm gonna have to take a shower and fucking respond
to this asshole. And then the Daily Show emailed me

(02:30):
and they're like, do you have to respond? We will
help you write a response. I was like, great, this
is what I want to say. They wrote it, then
send it back to me, and then I edited it
and like added some stuff, and then I was like, Okay.
It was really funny because that's what got me out
of bed that day was Tucker Carlson. I was like,
I can't believe I had to take a shower for
this fucking asshole so I can film something. Yeah, oh

(02:52):
my goodness, that's one way to do that. I can't
wait to see what he says next. But it'd be
funny if he got so scared that he just didn't
respond again my god, all right, oh my goodness. I
just added a show to Red Rocks Amphitheater in Morrison, Colorado. Yes,

(03:13):
I'm coming to Red Rocks, which is gonna be awesome.
That's gonna be very very cool. I know that's like
one of Brad's favorite venues. Okay, So, our guest today
is a friend of mine. She is a co host
of the iHeart podcast Drama Queens with her co stars
from One Tree Hill. She hosts her own podcast called
Work in Progress, which I've been in or on, and

(03:35):
she starts in the upcoming film called Junction. She's an actress,
she's an entrepreneur my favorite word, and activist. Sophia Bush.
It's here, Hi Sophia, Hi, Hi honey Bunny, Hi cutie pie.
Oh you're the best. Thanks for coming in so on
such short notice. Oh my god, wouldn't miss it. How's Whistler?

(03:57):
Pretty magical? We've been getting a lot of snow. It's
been light all season and now it's coming. So yesterday
was just like it was like skiing on clouds. We
were just like bouncing all over. It was so fun.
I gotta get out there with you one of these seasons.
I just love it so much. Sophia, this is Katherine,
this is my co host. How are you? I'm great?
How are you? Thank you good? Got your ice coffee?

(04:21):
What are you drinking? Sophia? What kind of concoction is that?
It's bone broth. Oh god, I knew it would be
something of that elk. You know, I was wondering. I
was like, is she going to answer the zoom? She
going to be in like maple leaf pasties with a martini.
I would have loved it, I know. I know. That's
usually how I operate around here. I just go throughout
the town the villages. I like to refer to it

(04:42):
as because to me, it is a village. Sophia. We
have a lot to catch up on because you got
married without my permission and I was planning being there,
but then I was on tour, so I couldn't come
to your wedding, which was I really wanted to be
there with you on your special day. Tell me about it.
I know I missed your humor. It was amazing. It
was so tremendously special. Also, your tour was fucking badass.

(05:07):
I love the New Special so much. I'm really having
a great time. I watched it three times. Oh my god,
making nighttime like joy moment. So thank you. The wedding
was amazing, you know it's I mean, I don't know
how you feel about the weird shit that comes with
what we do, but when we got engaged. It was

(05:28):
wild to see, like the amount of attention that an
Instagram post garnered. I wasn't prepared for articles and languages
that I have no idea how to read, and for
it to be such news. I was like, you know,
like Jennifer Aniston is famous, like Reese Witherspoon is famous,
like I don't know, like I do TV. But I didn't.

(05:49):
I didn't expect that, And it actually really enabled us
in talking about how that felt and what that meant
and was there a way to make it seem less overwhelming.
It enabled us to figure out how, if that was
going to be the sort of attention that comes from
our relationship, how we could do something really good with it.
And so we went to Tulsa and it was really

(06:10):
an unbelievable moment. And being able to use our wedding
to teach folks about the nineteen twenty one race massacre
and about doctor Tiffany Crutcher and all the people on
the ground, the Blackwall Street Times and their staff, all
the people who were doing the work to rebuild Greenwood.
Getting Vogue magazine to talk about Greenwood felt really cool.

(06:32):
So it was special for us, and it was special
for our community. And did you guys, either one of
you have a tie tell Tulsa. Yeah. Grant is a
fifth generation Oklahoma and he grew up in a farming
family and their three hours west of Tulsa. And so
when we went on our very first trip to visit
his family, he was like, Hey, I have these friends

(06:52):
working on progressive politics and social justice and Tulsa and
do you want to go three hours east of my
parents and meet them too? And I was like, I'm
going to marry the shit out of this man. Good
I do. I want to go meet that whole community.
So for the last three years, Tulsa has kind of
been our home away from home. Oh cute, that's cool.

(07:13):
I'm performing in Tulsa coming up when, oh my god,
we'll come. I don't know. I have to look at
my calendar, but I know I have a Tulsa, Oklahoma date.
Oh great. And I don't think I've ever performed in Tulsa.
I've performed Oklahoma City, which is always fun. It's always
fun to go to those cities because you just like
what you're talking about. There's a whole you know, undercurrent
of liberalism. Always to pocket in these cities, and so

(07:35):
when you go there and then you meet up with
your people, you're like, oh, yeah, this is great. You know,
there's like minded at people everywhere, truly, and Tulsa so special,
and the sort of richness of the history there and
the black history there and the progressive history there and
the sort of classic Americana and the music and all
the art, and it's just like a really unbelievably beautiful

(07:58):
place and it's well, we should probably cover the Tulsa
massacre for those of you who are listening who are
not familiar with what happened in Tulsa, Sophia, do you
want to lead on this? Yeah, So in nineteen twenty one,
a case that began very similarly. You know, most people
know about the murder of Emmett Till when he was
young and accused of whistling at a white woman who

(08:19):
happens to still be alive and has never been brought
to justice for what she did to that fourteen year
old boy. It was the photographs of him that really
helped to educate America on what the enactment of racist
violence looks like. And Tulsa is as an event the
massacre of nineteen twenty one, which was inaccurately called a

(08:41):
race riot. You know, they love to call things riots
that have harmed at risk communities, and in Tulsa as well,
there's so much evidence in terms of not just photographs,
but insurance records. We understand the devastation of families, and
we understand not only the emotional and graphical impacts, but
we understand the financial impacts of those things, which historically

(09:04):
in violence against black communities have been harder to prove.
It's harder to go back into the eighteen hundreds, for example,
and have those conversations. So Tulsa is an interesting place
to get educated for the breadth of information that you
can gather. And in nineteen twenty one, a young man
was accused of attacking a young black man was accused

(09:25):
of attacking a white woman in an elevator. Didn't happen.
He was then taken to jail, and fathers and men
in the black community came to the jail and surrounded
it to ensure that this young man was not lynched
by white members of the community, who publicly stated that
day that they were going to bring a lynch mob
to the jail that night. And the men came armed

(09:49):
both sides did. It turned into a pretty violent situation
very quickly. And the really arresting thing to understand about
Tulsa is that, with the support of the National Guard,
white citizens were deputized as sheriff's deputies on the spot
and they murdered hundreds of black families. They got farmers

(10:13):
who had planes for crop dusting up in the air
and firebombed Greenwood. And many of the people who have
seen the Watchman or who have looked into this, know
the corner of Greenwood and Archer, and they think, like
that was Blackwall Street, that street was Blackwall Street. But
Blackwall Street was a neighborhood that was forty square blocks
in a city forty blocks by forty blocks, and the

(10:36):
entire thing was burned to the ground. Hotels and doctors
offices and movie theaters and car dealerships. This was the
wealthiest black community in America. There were multi millionaires in
nineteen twenty one in Tulsa, in Greenwood, and people didn't
like it. They didn't like the success of a community
that they had been trying to oppress for so long.

(10:58):
And it is one of the most gregious violent acts
that has been recorded in our nation's history, and it's heavy.
It's not lost on me, and it certainly was not
lost on my husband and I that in a moment
where we see so many people like Ding Dong, Ron
DeSantis and every other asshole chatting on Fox News trying

(11:18):
to literally ban our history. We know survivors of the
race massacre. There are still living survivors of this massacre
in nineteen twenty one, and if we don't learn our history,
we're not going to see it coming when it begins
to repeat itself. And so for us, it felt really
important to have our big beautiful day on a Saturday.

(11:40):
But ask all the people who know us, it's like, look,
you're gonna you're coming to the wedding of your favorite
activist friend and her former public school teacher husband. Like
you're gonna do some homework. And so we did this big,
beautiful museum day and toured through Greenwood and met with
the Crutcher Foundation. And I have to just say thank
you to everyone in Tulsa, because when I said to
doctor Krutcher, who works on these justice issues every day,

(12:03):
like can I bring two hundred people to your office?
She was like what sure, okay, And so we literally
split everyone into these four groups to fifty and we
rotated people through Greenwood all day. Wow, people time to process,
and they've been to museums and journalists offices and the
Greenwood Cultural Center and the John Hope Reconciliation Park and

(12:26):
some people needed to cry and some people needed to
talk about it. And we rented out a bar and
we were like, do whatever you feel like you need
to do, have a beer when you go home, when
you talk about our wedding, please tell this story because like,
plenty of people get married, but we need to make
sure that this is a story that doesn't get you
pulled off the bookshelves and schools like we're seeing now, Wow,

(12:50):
that's so beautiful. It was gnarly, like a lot of
people cried. But what's been beautiful about it, And what
I find so special is I you know, I know
it can be painful to look back at history like this.
It's painful for communities, and it's hard to know that
we come from humans that do this to each other, right,
But what always gives me hope when I learn hard

(13:12):
history is the people that are helping now. So it
felt special to say you need to know about this,
And here's all the people who have rebuilt a community
from the ground and are continuing to do so. When
you want to know what to do about things that
are this hard, look to these people and support their work.
And that's where the inspiration comes, and that's where the

(13:32):
joy comes. And that's where like the beauty out of
things that were so ugly in the past, I think
comes in the present. And I'll be forever grateful that
that whole community said absolutely, tell us who you want
to bring, and tell us what you want to want
them to learn about and the best people I know. Well,
it's also nice to be married to somebody who's so

(13:53):
aligned with your political leanings right and human Well, you're
passion for human rights is probably a better way to
describe it, because it's been past as politics and it's
not political, but it has somehow has become political. Your body,
your race, all of it. So, yeah, tell me about
that like kind of relationship having somebody who's totally on

(14:14):
the same page as you, because I don't know, I've
never really felt completely aligned with that person that I
was dating politically, like we might have some of the
same beliefs but still there's a lot of disagreement. Yeah,
I get that. I think what you first said is
really important, right, This idea that people deserve to be

(14:34):
treated equally shouldn't be political, the idea that whether you
are a woman or you are a member of a
historically repressed community, you're not supposed to just be there
to serve the ruling class. We don't live in the
French aristocracy, and yet there's a lot of folks in
our country who love a modern day aristocracy because they

(14:55):
get really, really rich. And the lol to me is
always that they're the people who yell at us for
being rich. And I'm like, I'm paying a thirty year
mortgage on my house, Like having had a down payment
is certainly a privilege. But Tucker Carlson is so rich,
Like that guy makes forty six million dollars a year
and he's yelling at us. You know, we're out here
like making independent movies for a dollar. I'm like, oh,

(15:16):
fund yourself, dude. So it's not lost on me. I
won't ever say a bad word about Tucker Carlson. So
don't try, Sophia. I know, I know, Chelsea, You're just
you're a classier broad than I. But um, you know,
it's not lost on me that people make money off
convincing the populace that our basic human rights are political.

(15:41):
And I think because things have gotten so hot, like
the pot is boiling right, everybody's real jumpy and people
feel like their identity is tied to politics. I don't
feel like that. I just feel like I'm not a
ding dong who doesn't get that equal is equal and
inequal isn't. And so that's sort of my first place.

(16:02):
And I will say it is hard to find a partner,
regardless of how progressive so many of the men we
know are. You know, if you're looking for a heterosexual relationship,
a lot of guys are like, yeah, I'm all in.
But then when it's their girl that's the bright, shiny one,

(16:23):
or their girls the one who draws the attention, or
their girls the reason they get invited to the White House,
or their girl makes more money than them, suddenly what
they say they believe in is egotistically very difficult. And
so what I think is really important is for me,
at least having found a human being who had entered

(16:43):
a stage in his life where he said, okay, I'm
saying I want to meet the woman of my dreams?
Where am I not aligned with what I say? But
he had to confront some things, and so did I.
I had to. He had to confront the ways in
which he could actually tabolize what masculinity and patriarchy does

(17:04):
in relationships, even unconsciously. For someone as evolved as he is,
who has three master's degrees and loves the environment and
was a teacher and all the stuff. He had to
really do some inquiry about the way society kind of
steeps us in these teas that are gross. And I
had to do some real inquiry and go, oh, I've

(17:25):
been in relationships with people who didn't deserve me. It's
been my fault because I've tolerated somebody's ineptitude and competitiveness.
So as much as past relationships and certain circumstances were trash,
I took trash home with me. So you two fault
system here. And I had to really get clear on
where I was going to realign my boundaries. And I

(17:48):
also had to get clear on how those experiences and
other traumas I'd been through had made me really hard
and I don't mean hard to be around. I mean
hard to like, emotionally penetrate. I was going to say
hard to penetrate. I'm like, what emotionally panget like hard

(18:09):
to get into the heart all the way, I've had
such walls, and I have such healthy emotional relationships with
my friends. My platonic relationships are so loving that I
was kind of like, I'm good and I had to
really do some work on getting vulnerable in a way
where I could not only have a rallying cry for us,

(18:30):
for community, for justice, but I could also gently cry
and say this is really hard for me. I need help.
This is where I need support. This is where I
normally isolate and say fuck you don't. I don't need
you to carry that for me. And now I'm like,
will you please just put my bag in the overhead
been I'm so tired and so in a way, we
had to meet on so many levels, and interestingly, in

(18:53):
analyzing how society affects relationships between men and women, I
think it made it so clear that the community politics
that we believe in was like, for sure the easiest part.
Dealing with your own internal individual psychosis is way harder,
at least in my recent experience than aligning with somebody politically,

(19:15):
because every dingdong they tried to date me that then
was like mad about female success. I was just like, bye, Yeah,
it's very true what you say about how people say
they're one thing and they're down with it and they're
you know, with it, and they're supportive of women, and
then it becomes a totally different story when you come
face to face with it in like a romantic relationship. Yeah,
And I wonder about this for somebody like you, because

(19:37):
you are one of the most successful women in our industry.
You are brilliant, you are you're always the funniest person
in the room, which has to be hard for people
who like to be funny. And you have not only
always been at this level of success, but you've also
so publicly shown what it's like to continue evolving and

(19:57):
growing and getting like qushier and more tender, and your
political lessons you learn out loud and in public, which
is such a beautiful model for people. And like, sometimes
I think about it when when men are obsessed with
you as most of them are, where I'm like, you
knew exactly what you were getting into, Like that's Chelsea
fucking handler. Nothing is a surprise. I know. It's like

(20:19):
there are six books about it, so if I could
pick one up and it'll cover all your bases. She's badass.
She's this person. Did you think at home she was
going to be like, oh honey, sweetie baby, what can
I do for your feet? My apron on all of
a sudden, I'm just like living two parallel lives. Okay,
So Sophia, well thank you for those accolades. I feel

(20:40):
the same way about you. You're always constantly learning and
evolving and sharing, and you're brilliant. You're so fucking smart.
I remember the first time I hung out with you,
and I think it was Connie Britten was with us
and then Cindy leave. Not the first time, but one
of the times we respect together. I was when Connie
and I were driving home and I was like, fuck,
she's smart. I was like, she is Mark. And it's

(21:01):
not I mean not to put everyone else in this
industry down, but it's just always really encouraging when you
sit down next to somebody at a Hollywood event and
you're like blown away, you know, So there's that. Anyway,
what we're gonna do is we have live callers calling
in or writing in, and we're just going to tell
them what to do with their lives. Okay, Sophie. I
think we're totally both very well equipped for this partnership today. Absolutely.

(21:24):
I'm the multiple degrees I have in psychology. No, I
don't make me profied for this. I'm self certified, which
is much different than a degree, a certification. I'm like
a masseuse, a massage therapist. And then someone goes, where'd
you train? And you're like on people University of Phoenix,
Like Malcolm Gladwell has that whole ten thousand hours theory right,

(21:46):
and I'm like, well, ten thousand hours of like therapy
and psychedelic therapies and the retreats I've done and the
places I've gone, and I have to be a professional
at this by now. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah,
And I think I don't even think it needs you
need ten thousand hours. I think things, if you're smart enough,
I think you need half that time. Perfect. Okay, Katherine,

(22:09):
what do we have in stir Oh? First we'll take
a quick break and then we're gonna come right back. Okay,
and we're back, Yes we are. I actually have a
perfect question for the conversation we've just been having. It
was question number four and now it's jumping to number one.
But this is like the top forty, It's like Saturday

(22:30):
Afternoons with Casey Kasum. Yes, so this is from back,
the singer the same question, right, Just be easy. It's
a back I probably is okay. I would be thrilled
to give advice to back to back, but I would
exchange it for performed songs. Be like every every question

(22:52):
is a song. Well be a concert anyway, you railed
the conversation album concert. What what does Beck be easy
see want to know from us? So, Beck says, Dear Chelsea.
First off, I'm a huge fan of the show and
have listened regularly since day one. You guys keep me
accountable and encourage me to try and grow. Here's my problem.

(23:13):
I'm in a long term relationship with a man who
has only in the last year or so started to
share worrying opinions. We have one six month old baby
together and another on the way. Whoopsie doodle. That's pretty quick,
which makes it hard to know what is the right
thing to do in this situation. My partner recently has
started to openly and overtly express his opinions on an

(23:36):
array of different groups and conspiracies of late think Jordan
Peterson think, Russell Brand COVID is a hoax, women are
out for blood, the world is ending. Russia are the
good guys today? He said something along the lines of
today's woke agenda is so mortifying. It's all just a
group of white women acting marginalized and campaigning for people
who don't want their help. I bite my tongue most

(23:58):
of the time because these conversations always go nowhere, and
he's not open to hearing my counter argument. He spends
all his time on YouTube, watching alien conspiracy videos and
thinking he's smarter than everyone else. This is not the
man I originally started a relationship with, or even the
man I planned to have children with. He seems to
be going deeper and deeper into his way of thinking

(24:18):
at an alarming rate. What the fuck do I do?
Thanks back, yaikes? That is not a good situation, is no.
I mean you're gonna have to skidattle unfortunately. I mean
you can't reason with somebody. Anybody who's reading conspiracy theories
online is gone. They've left the building, and it's not

(24:41):
your job to get them back. I mean, I'm really
sorry to hear well. I mean I'm happy. I'm sure
you are happy that you have your daughter and then
you have one on the way or I'm sorry, I
don't know if it was a daughter or son. I
missed that part. But you have one child and you've
one on the way. I understand how difficult this is
going to be, but you're going to be a champion
if you just get yourself out of this situation. Because
if you can't listen to your point of view and

(25:02):
you're not having this is such a big huge sign
for you to get out and explain to him that
you can't be with somebody who's reading make it up
stories on the internet, like the least likely scenario is
the least likely scenario. So anyone who doesn't have the
gift of critical thinking or has learned about that and
how to understand what's true and what's not, that's not

(25:25):
somebody that you want, even around your children. So you
immediately have to like draw a line in the sand
and let him know this is a unacceptable. I'm not
down with this. You're scaring me. And if you're not
going to like do something about it and actually get
some help, or be open minded to my opinions and
actually have real conversations, which is just too far gone anyway,
he's already wrapped up in his nonsense. I think you

(25:48):
just got to get out of there, Sophia. Yeah, I mean,
I don't know how you come back from it. You know,
I understand there is a toxicity in those algorithms where
when you start to look, suddenly that's all you see.
And I think it's important to understand that it is
being under an influence. It's like this guy's doing heroin.

(26:09):
Conspiracy theories are a drug and they are designed to
make you addicted, and the psychology of them, if you
do any light study, proves that the way they work
is they make people feel special because they get to
say I know something you don't know. I have the
information you haven't found yet. It's not grounded in reality.

(26:30):
Something that I have found really helpful recently. I've been
very horrified to learn that someone who I have loved
for a very long time has gotten on the edges,
sucked into the Jordan Peterson world. And the thing that
I saw get through it wasn't saying Jordan Peterson defends rapists,
defends the sex trafficking of children. He believes Andrew Tate

(26:51):
is a good guy. He is a misogynist in a suit.
He's like a guy who beats his wife dressed up
like a college professor. Jordan Peterson is none of that cracked.
But when I said so, the generations of global study
about equity aren't swaying you. But this one guy who's

(27:11):
speaking in a way that you think is deep, who
charges forty ninety nine a month to teach you how
to be a man, seems like the guy, the guy
with all the answers, makes you pay him to give
them to you. It's just like Tucker Carlson. He makes
forty six million dollars a year to lie. And just
this week all those text messages were published about him
making fun of Donald Trump and making fun of Rudy

(27:33):
Giuliani and calling them all a bunch of lunatics and
saying there was no voter fraud and they all knew
from the beginning, but they pushed the lies on Fox
News because they made money. People are taking brains like
this woman Beck's husband's hostage for profit. And if that
truth can't give him just enough of a coldwater shock,

(27:55):
so look elsewhere. Then, you know, to Chelsea's point, he's
way too far are gone and it's heartbreaking and I
can't imagine having to leave the person who I thought
was the love of my life. But I wouldn't let
a heroin addict around my children. And that's what these
conspiracy theories amen to. That. Yeah, there is no reasoning
your way out of it. I think if he'll agree to,

(28:17):
like find some counseling with you, or maybe you just
need to talk to a therapist by yourself, because my
guesses seems probably gonna say no, you could try that,
but it does sound like there is an exit in
your future. Back yeah, and pick up some bone broth
on the way. I mean, Sophia is drinking it and
she's as sharp as attack, so I have heard lots

(28:37):
of good things about it. Did you make that yourself?
Because it looks like iced coffee? Like it's that isn't
thick and unctious? I make my owne. I make my
own too. I did not make because it's been a
crazy week. So I did the bougiel A thing and
I went to Rowan and I was like cooking, maybe in.
One of them paid nine for expensive chart. So yeah,

(29:02):
on Monday, I'll be making more of my own because
you have to pay. Like I said earlier, Yeah, people
are always shocked. So they opened up my freezer like
why are there just a bunch of bones in here? Yeah?
I keep mine in a paper bag in the freezer
because it's less upsetting to the people who well come
over me and the people who often come over here.
I realized the like gallon ziplock was a little traumatizing,

(29:26):
So now it goes in a brown paper bag and
nobody has to know what's in there but me. Yes exactly.
People were like, what'd you get your husband for your wedding?
I'm like a bag of bonds. I don't know what
I would do a poor one. I know, well, I
mean I just don't understand how someone how long could
they have been they've had to been together or at

(29:46):
least over a year, and how does somebody keep their
opinions like that. I once had a boyfriend who blurted
out something. We were going to lunch and I had
dated him for a while and he hadn't said he
wasn't really into politics, but like he didn't really know
what he was talking about about anything, but he never
spoke about them, so it wasn't that upsetting, right. But
then once we were at lunch and he goes, God,

(30:07):
this fucking Bill Gates guy running everybody's healthcare into the ground.
Why does he get to be like the health czar
for America? And I remember going, what, what what are
you talking about? He's like, why is everybody listening to
Bill Gates? And just went on this Bill Gates And
I was like, oh, you've read you're listening to people
who talk about conspiracy theories. But it's it's insidious, like

(30:29):
there there is a person in my life who like
is not conservative, and you know, they're very us dauntily independent,
they vote with who they like, but every once in
a while something will slip out of their mouth that's
like a little little duds over there, you know, and
it's just like it's in it's insidious, like some of

(30:50):
these ideas are woven through like actual journalism and sneaks
in there sometimes depending on what you're reading. You know,
what's interesting to me that I'm just from and bring
about what she said, this notion that her husband is
parroting the now progressive politics is just white women supporting
people who don't want their support. I'm like, oh, you

(31:11):
can't read between the lines at the deep patriarchy and that,
because what the nightmare of the conservative white man is
is that the women they want to marry who look
like the three of us, get over their bullshit and
we join up with all the people they've been oppressing forever.
So now they're like, no, no, no, don't don't let

(31:32):
those white women come and listen in your rooms. Oh no.
And I'm like, are you worried that so many of
us are going and paying attention or you know what
I mean. It's such a tactic. It's like separating communities,
pitting different communities against each other. And it's been so
beautiful this year and this past year, I guess is
more accurate in the wake of all this horrible community

(31:52):
violence to see groups coming together, like Black and Asian
communities advocating alongside each other, Christian and Jewish community. He's
advocating alongside each other historically separated groups saying no, no, no, no,
we're not going to fall into those tropes. And it's
not lost on me that the conspiracy theorists want to
pooh poo groups of people coming together because they know

(32:14):
that the sum total of all of us is so
many more than just what's left of them, and they're
still afraid. Yeah. Our next question comes from Kristen Dear Chelsea.
My husband had a heart attack and passed February of
twenty twenty two. COVID played a role in his death.

(32:34):
I'm thirty five and he was only forty two. I
currently live on the East Coast. Our dream was to
head west and we were in the process of figuring
out our next journey there. I'm coming up to the
one year anniversary of his death. I'm going to Denver
to celebrate his life instead of sit in my apartment.
That's just two miles away from the hospital where he passed. Also,
I'm a firm believer that being in high altitude will

(32:57):
heal anything. I need advice as far as where to move.
I've been to California. I'm about to go to Denver,
and I'm very in tune with myself. I go to
mediums often. I'm a very spiritual person, but it's really
hard to figure out what the right move is. I
can't rebuild where I lived with him. Everything I see
is him. I need to go where we haven't been together.

(33:17):
I need to go where I have a blank canvas.
I just don't know where. Kristin Cushman, Hi, Kristen, Hi.
We have Sophia Bush today as our special guest. So
say hello to Sophia. It's nice to meet you. Oh,
nice to meet you. Thank you for your letter. And
I know we're all just so sorry for your loss.
Thank you, thank you. You have great brown hair. I'm

(33:38):
a huge fan of it. We have lots of hair
colors represented on this zoom girls, all of the body,
I'm sure. So how are you feeling a year out
of this? How are you mentally, emotionally, physically, psychologically? All
great questions. So I first went to California for his
birthday in December. He passed February twenty twenty two. That

(34:02):
was magical. I found peace, I found happiness again. I
could feel him there. Then I was like, you know what,
let me go to Denver. We've both never been to Denver.
Let me go have a week out there. And Denver
was everything that I thought it wasn't going to be.
I was not ready for Denver like Denver I thought
I was a free person, and I thought I was

(34:22):
very spiritual. I looked like a goddamn Republican. I was like,
I was like, okay, okay, so Denver. It made Raleigh
feel more like home. It made me realize it's not
a location. So how are you feeling about moving now?
Is that out the window or are you still considering it?
You know, I am still open to it. It's hard

(34:44):
to find the right location because very in tuned with
myself energy is really important. Finding people who say the
right things instead of like, oh, I just can't imagine
what that feels like. It's like you can't imagine. You
just don't want to imagine it. You know, it's like
that's not the right thing to say. You could say
something like I know you're not okay, and then that
will make someone relax because then you're validating them, you know,

(35:05):
like trying to find places where people would understand me more,
or stop trying to find places when someone's in grief,
of displaying how good it you are for showing up
for them instead of just listening. You know, a lot
of people are trying to like show you I'm here
for you and this is how good I am in
this situation, it's like, it's not about you, it's about

(35:26):
the person grieving. But I also think you just answer
that question for yourself. At the beginning of this call,
you said, I realize it's not a location anymore, it's
an energy, and that he's going to be wherever you go.
It's just about you finding peace. So that's why I'm
still curious you still feel as passionately about moving as
you did before. I do, I really do, Okay, I

(35:48):
know I can feel it. I'm supposed to. And the
thing is, I think if you're on the precipice and
you feel the next chapter coming, then you just have
to go with that feeling. That's what you know. You
can't know what place is going to be right for
you until you give it a shot. But what do
know is that you want to go. And we live
in this moment that if we were in our mom's generation,

(36:11):
it would have been so much harder for us to
pick up and move. We're the airbnb kids. You can
go anywhere for six weeks and rent an apartment or
a house, no strings attached. Who cares? So go to
Denver and see and then I don't know, go to
San Jose and like hike in the Redwoods every weekend
in California. Do whatever you and your work enables you

(36:33):
to do. I'm assuming if you're moving you can either
work remote or there's a plan. So if you have
the good fortune in terms of geography to be able
to move around, go explore and to your point, see
what place offers you the hikes that you want. See
what place you feel him in your ear when you're

(36:54):
out walking in the morning. See what place you meet
people who feel like the kind of people you want
to break bread with at the coffee shop. You're in
a moment of depth. Not everyone you meet is going
to meet you in that kind of depth, but when
they do, you're going to be able to go, all right,
I'm gonna get out of my short term thing here
and I'm gonna look for an apartment that I'm going
to sign like a year lease on and that's probably

(37:17):
gonna feel amazing. Yeah, but you have to experience it
before you know where it is. You have a good
community where you are. I have joined a word a
group since he died, and I call them my widows.
They don't fuck around. They listen to me. I'm telling
you right now, like they are sixty five and they
get down and they tell me all about it. I'm like, okay, okay,

(37:37):
Like they are perful and I'm a comic here. I
have a great The community, the comedy community in Raleigh,
North Carolina, is it's very strong. It's a very strong community. Yeah,
it sounds like you're pretty good with your own intuition
as well. First of all, comedy is the best doing
stand up is like the best outlet possible for you,

(37:58):
you know, in this moment especially and during this time.
So if there's no rush for you to leave, like
it sounds like you are attuned and in tuned with
yourself and with like what is right for you. So
I wouldn't put your pressure on it to make the decision.
I think you're gonna you have a pretty good grip
on what's what is right for you, and then you're
going to handle that with a plum. I would just
trust yourself a little bit, like you you're gonna know

(38:20):
when it's time to go. You're in a good space.
You seem like you're you've got a total handle on
the situation and you're handling everything in the right amount
of time. So I think you're coming into what you're
going to be doing permanently through this grief, and the
only way out is through. That's correct. There's no way
to jump to the end. So to Chelsea's point, you

(38:44):
are making something. You can't rush it. You're the experience
and you're gonna You're gonna get to the end of
that road, to the last page of that book only
when you write all the pages of the book that
come before it. It allows me to not suppress the grief.
It allows me when I get anxious, I know I

(39:04):
need to cry. And that's a very strong woman. It's
hard for me to ask help, so it's hard for
me to let myself feel the feelings I need to feel.
So when I feel anxious, I'm like, just cry, just cry,
just let it out. And I start writing. And I
know it's unique to be my agent to be a widow.
And he was really young too, and I know if
I didn't do something with that, I would be doing

(39:24):
a dishonor to him. So we'll keep us posted and
let us know what you do, decide where you end
up going, and you know all that good stuff. Yeah, yeah,
all right, you guys taking here all right, We're rooting
for you. Thanks Kristen, thank you. Bye. All right, Well,
this question is from Sarah. Sarah says, Dear Chelsea, what's

(39:46):
considered a sugar daddy and why are there's so many
opinions about it. I'm Sarah, thirty two years old, and
according to my friends, I have one of these so
called sugar daddies. To give a little background, I was
raised with my three siblings by or loving single mother.
My father was a deadbeat, so I have the typical
daddy issues people associate with that. When I was twenty

(40:07):
in a Florida college, I met an older man the
age of my father at my apartment complex. We became
fast friends in a short amount of time and started
going to lunch and dinners together. He always paid, and
he started taking me shopping and paying for my car,
oil changes, etc. When I moved across the country, he
gifted me five thousand dollars to help me get started.

(40:27):
We talk or text daily or at least every few days,
and he's been such a great friend with consoling me
when I had a few breakups and actually when my
father passed. He was so easy and supportive to talk to. Anyway,
I feel I made a mistake telling my friend of
two years about my relationship with this older man. She
brings it up in front of others at social events
and seems to want to make fun of me, laughing

(40:49):
and saying I have a sugar daddy. She repeatedly tells
me how she's baffled that my husband is okay with this.
It's embarrassing to me the way she makes it seem
like I'm having sex with the man, insinuating that I'm
doing anything inappropriate. He's more of a father figure to
me than I've ever had. I have two children and
they call him pop pop. He always remembers our birthdays

(41:09):
and sends a card. I'm so frustrated with my friend
and have explained to her that he's like my father
as her father is to her. Should I confront her?
And what could I possibly say to her now? When
it's just me and her. She's sweetest pie. Around others,
she takes on this bully persona, always saying that I
should have my sugar daddy pay for our dinner and
drinks and letting everyone know about my situation. To me,

(41:31):
he has no wife or children. He's wealthy and I'm not.
It's very kind, all the help he's given me over
the twelve years we've been close. I'm proud to have
a real friendship with someone that is not a likely bestie,
being that he's sixty and I'm about half his age.
Thank you and take care, Sarah. Well, that's confusing, but
they're not sleeping together, I know. But it's so confusing

(41:52):
because you're taking money from a stranger, like I find
that to be. I don't know how I feel about that. Honestly,
I think it lovely. This man's probably very lonely, and
he is attached to this gal and her kids and
doesn't seem to be a creepy situation. I mean, first
of all, you should definitely talked to your friend to

(42:12):
sufferinging it up because that you didn't tell her for
her to be making fun of you, and you're not
in a sexual relationship, right, so you need to tell her. Yeah,
I guess you know. I say that, yet I've given
money to strangers and they've taken it, but that's not
I feel like it's different coming from a man. Yet
I also understand that this man is probably like seeking
out a relationship with her as a daughter figure too.

(42:33):
It sounds like as long as he's not ever tried
to hit on you, which would be completely unacceptable. So
I don't know. I'm conflicted. That doesn't sound like there's
anything untoward happening, but also, yeah, it's like something to
think about. So you know what's interesting is I realized
as you got through the letter that this is a
ten year relationship, yeah, friendship. And when she said you

(42:56):
know that it's not a sexual relationship, I went, oh, same,
Because I had a friend who was twenty one who
had a fifty year old neighbor who was trying to
take her out and buy her stuff. I'd be like,
don't you fall down that rabbit hole? Right. However, ten
years in, to your point, it really does sound like
a very paternal relationship. And like you said, Chelsea, if

(43:19):
he's never hit on her, he's never made her uncomfortable.
He knows her husband, he knows her children. You know
what it makes me think of is we have this
lovely neighbor. I mean, well, a neighbor I grew up
with at my parents' house. Our sweet neighbor, Charlie is
an elderly man in our neighborhood who doesn't have a family.
He is like the Pasadena historian. He knows everything about

(43:41):
everything in nature. He can tell you the Latin name
of any tree. He is just the sweetest old man.
And when our family moved into the neighborhood and my
grandpa would come visit, we'd go out on walks, and
my grandpa and Charlie struck up a conversation one morning,
and from that year, Charlie has spent the holidays with
my family. Oh I after my grandfather passed away, we

(44:05):
you know, we used to call him our bonus grandpa.
And after my grandfather passed away, Charlie still spends all
of the holidays with my family. It's it's been twenty
five years now, yea. And no, you know, Charlie's not
like some man of means who's like giving money away
to everybody. But he's a really important person in our life,
and we are his family, and I think that those

(44:27):
relationships are meaningful. And so I get why the dynamic
of this guy being financially supportive rings the alarm bells
of older guy taking advantage of younger woman. But he's
never tried to fuck hers. He seems to be seeking
a family, and who is this person to judge anyone

(44:48):
else's family and how they make it is really where
I land as I go through the sort of stream
of consciousness list that I'm making with you now well,
and it sounds like she's not even living in the
same stage him anymore, So I mean, probably not anything
untoward there. My parents always talk about this concept of
giving with warm hands. My dad is in elder law,

(45:09):
so he helps a lot of people prepare for their
eventual death and where they want to leave their money.
But for my parents, it's always been really important to
give with warm hands, like give while they're still alive.
So they give a lot to charities and they help
out people that they love. They've certainly helped me out,
And it sounds like that's kind of what he wants
to do. You know, he has this and he's able
to do that. But I do think Chelsea's right the friend.

(45:32):
Sometimes people will rib you about stuff and like not
realize they're actually pretty offended by it. So maybe if
you talk to this friend. I also think there's something
that means to be explored there. And I know people
get real touchy when their egos get pressed, but it
sounds like this friend has a dynamic of jealousy and
if she's just with her best friend, she can love

(45:54):
her best friend. But when she sees the way people
react to her best friend, she needs to get competitive.
And it really sounds like this woman. I don't think
she's doing it to be mean. Maybe she's not conscious
she's doing it, but it really sounds like she has
some self inquired to do to figure out why she
needs to neg her friend in front of other people.

(46:15):
Why is she trying to knock her down a notch
in front of others? Like, you need friends who want
to lift you up and who want to push you
in front of them when an opportunity comes around, and
I think you might be well off to ask your friend,
why do you want to make me small in front
of other people? It's really hurtful. Yeah, yeah, definitely you

(46:35):
to confront that issue. And we've decided that the other
relationship is okay, said, we talked through it. Yes, Sarah,
let us know how it goes with your friend, and
we wish you the best of luck. But let's take
a quick break and we'll be right back. Okay, and

(46:56):
we're back. Hello, Well, Sophia, Is there any advice you'd
like to ask of Chelsea? Oh Man, Yeah, I'm really
curious about something because I'm in this process right now,
and when you work on projects and you get to
travel and you work with all these crews. For me, anyway,

(47:18):
it has resulted in some really outsized nostalgia. And I'm
really curious because you do a similar thing. How do
you decide what nostalgic memory items, trinkets, chatskes you keep
and what goes so that your house doesn't get cluttered
because your house is very organized, and I feel a

(47:41):
little bit like I live in somebody's grandma's house, like
there's just shit everywhere. Oh yeah, No, you can't be
a hoarder. No, well, I have a hoarder tendency and
I don't know what to do about it. I know,
but memorabilia of our own little trinkets or reminders are fine.
I'm not really a sentimental person, so all of my stuff,
I don't know who saves my stuff quite frankly, I
mean probably my relatives or my assistants or something like.

(48:04):
I don't have a thing about Like I opened my
cabinet the other day and there was like eighty five
thousand books of ours. I'm like, why are we keeping these?
I don't need my own books. Let's bring them on tour,
sell them, like, get rid of them, give them some
charity whatever. I have the opposite mentality, because I just
feel like everything's being recorded anyway. Who cares? It's not say, yeah,

(48:26):
all of the things you've done are like there forever
and ever and ever and ever. So why are we
Pictures are the most important thing to me. That's all
I care about our pictures. Yeah, I have a lot
of pictures. I frame letters, but I'm one of those
people who keeps every ticket stuff by from every concert
of them. Oh yeah, no, no, no notable book. And
I'm like, I think I'm running out of bloom. I

(48:48):
don't know where to put things anymore. I know, I
know it's good just to make as like photocopies of
all of it, because what are you really ever going
to do look through your tickets? I mean, who are
you saving them for? Like your grandchildren? I don't know.
So yeah, I would say less is more, Sophia, I
would say, get rid of a lot of things. Memories
you just need, you just need the pictures of the memories.

(49:10):
You just need a picture of you at the concert.
I mean, another reason that I don't have to save
anything is because I'm not having any children, so I'm
not having any grandchildren. So it's up to my nieces
and nephews to preserve my legacy. Whatso gone. That'll be
a nice challenge for them, send them the box of books. Yeah,
thank you Sophia for being on today. I love you
so much and I'm so happy we got to connect.

(49:31):
I know too, we go connected person when I'm when
I'm back in LA for sure, I'll hit you up.
Otherwise I'm going to mail myself to Whistler soon. Well
you can come here too. Everyone's invited to pass through. Okay, okay,
thank you, Thank Sophia. You. I'm so nice to see Catherine. Likewise,
bye bye, and don't forget everybody. My new special Revolution

(49:54):
is now streaming on Netflix and it's badass. And then
I'm doing a tour a little big bit store. You
can go to Chelsea Panelo dot com for tickets. I've
added some new dates. I added a date in Monticello,
New York. I'm coming to Colorado to Red Rocks Amphitheater.
I'm coming to Kalamazoo, and then I'm coming to a
bunch of places in Tennessee, Memphis, Knoxville, and Chattanooga. That's

(50:15):
May nineteenth, twentieth, and twenty first. And then I'll be
in Atlantic City June tenth, which is almost still doubt
so get your tickets. So if you'd like advice from Chelsea,
just send us an email at Dear Chelsea podcast at
gmail dot com. Dear Chelsea is a production of iHeartRadio,
produced by Catherine Law and edited and engineered by Brad Dickert.