How Do I Put This… with Laura Wasser

Chelsea and Brandon get help from divorce-attorney-to-the-stars Laura Wasser to tackle questions from listeners who need relationship advice. A lovebird wonders how to bring up the subject of a prenup. A friend-breakup raises some good questions about leaving a friendship vs. a romantic relationship. And a wife wants to know how long to share the same roof with her husband after asking for a divorce. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, well, good afternoon or good evening, whatever time you're
listening to this podcast. Good day. I am on my
first full completed week of not smoking cannabis out of
a paper. Where's that going? I mean, the first couple
of days, I was grossed out by myself because I
was coughing, and that made me grossed out by cannabis.

(00:23):
But it didn't last very long, and I feel a
mental clarity that I haven't felt in a while, so
I feel the benefits of it for sure. It's really
just not that hard to stop smoking pot well, and
you cough quite a bit while you're smoking, so then
there's a come down period where you're coughing more right,
well like cough when I don't smoke the good joints,
like when they're not the proper joints or they're chemically treated,

(00:44):
like that's why you want the own natural organic you
know me? And I'm just like such a Quaker about
everything I put into my body because it's a temple.
So there's a lot of power in taking a break
from something, especially when it's got a hold over you,
like our friend Shane, which brings me to my next question.
Who is in contact with Shane. I don't know that

(01:05):
anyone's been in contact. I think someone from the heart side,
Catherine has our producer Catherine. What's the status is Shane
also staying off the weed? Shane is also staying off
the weed. Feels very clear, doing well and yeah, oh wait.
And there was another screen grab that I sent you,
Brandon of a woman who said she was going to
do the thirty Day Detox with us too. She DM

(01:27):
me on Instagram and said she was going to quit
weed for a month, and I said, please do it
with us. I think a lot of people are. I've
seen a lot of conversation online where people are already
invested in this path of no canvas for you and Shane.
I don't know if people think it will last, but
they're very interested in it. Well, I mean, it doesn't
have to last. That's what the beauty of it is
is that it only has to last for thirty days.

(01:48):
You can last for thirty days, yeah, yeah, yeah, I
mean I'll definitely last for three weeks. I can't. I
think probably the other thing is is that I don't
have a very competitive side to myself in terms of
like having to prove a point or beat somebody at
something so I could see myself like quitting before I
reached the thirty days because I just don't care anymore

(02:09):
and that's something I've had to live with my whole life. Well,
we'll have to check in with Shane. I think we
should get him back on the phone at some point
to get a real update on what he has going
on and how it's affected his work life. Right, that's
an important update. There's also an important update. Have you
been watching Mayor of Eastown Brennan? I just want someone
yesterday and they're like, I'm not getting anything done. All

(02:30):
I'm doing is watching the show. Yeah, it's really good.
I watched each episode twice so that I really understand
what's going on and I want there to be a
new episode of it every week for the rest of
my life. Is it a limited series or is it
a series? It's a limited series because Kate Winslet is
in it. Yeah, they're all limited series now or maybe not?
Maybe no, maybe it will be another year. I don't know.
But she is fucking awesome, Oh my god. And the

(02:52):
accent is a little bit much, but it's that's the
SNL skit that they did Kate McKinnon did it about
my daughter's murder ditter dirt or fund or murderer accent
was really funny. But the show is really good. I
just love detective dramas. I also tried to watch a
show called Luther with Idris Elba and he was so hot.

(03:13):
Oh god, so he's distracting. Yeah, he's so sexy that
I googled to see if he was married, and he was,
and I had to stop watching the show. Well, they've
discussed him being the new James Bond and I could not.
I've never watched James Bond. I have zero interests. But
if he was James Bond, I would have my act
at the theater. Yeah. Yeah, he's he's pretty hot. And
he's tall. You know that's nice too, A nice tall,

(03:36):
masculine and not one of these actors that you see
that looks tall and then you meet them and they're
like underneath you, any tyke. It's like, how are you
not even a real person? You're a whisper of a man.
Just a little itty bitty thing, a little itty body,
titty committee. That's just what you need. A committee that
I will never be a member of. Should we get
into it today. I feel like there's a lot to cover. Yeah,

(03:58):
are we talking to Laura Walser today? We are talking
to That's a lot of relationship perspectives. Issues, people need
your thoughts. Okay, well, I'm excited to dive right into it.
You know, interpersonal affairs are my number one passion projects.
I don't know that we have an affair today, but
I'm sure we could find well, just interpersonal relations. It
doesn't have to be an affair, but if we could
find one that would be better. Yes, all right, to

(04:20):
be hurt. Well, for this week, we had a lot
of submissions and they all had an overarching theme of
like uncomfortable conversations that you have to have with different
people in your life. And we've had to have a
few of those together and separately that then we've discussed
what do you mean separately, like you've had to have
an uncomfortable conversation with a friend or someone that you
work with. I got to have one someone in my life,

(04:41):
like my mom right inviding you about it. So we're
all having them all the time, it seems, because this
week they're very The key is to continue having them.
Yes they are, yes, right, right, right, the more uncomfortable,
the more necessary. Probably, I would think so, because there's
no way to get around some those topics and you
just have to. And for one of them, I thought

(05:03):
that we would give an expert a call, even though
we are experts in our Yeah, why do we need
any more experts? Well, sometimes I think it's good to
get a third opinion. Okay, a third Okay, well not
more than a third, though, that would be too many
cooks in the kitchen. So after this break, we'll get
right into him. Okay, this first submission, I'm gonna have

(05:23):
to look up what this even means. I truly don't know.
I have a general idea, but this is a written
submission that says, Dear Chelsea, how do I tell women
I'm into cut holding? Do you know what that is?
Cut holding? Well, yes, I mean cut holding is like
to have another man's woman, like to be in a
relationship with someone else's wife. I would have had no

(05:46):
idea what that is. I had to google it. It
is for a man, a cuckold is having a sexual
relationship with another man's wife. Okay, yeah, right, it's so
desiring actly what you can't have. And do you know
anyone who has done this. God, it's hard to decipher
between shows I've seen an actual friends of mine because

(06:09):
they kind of all blend together. So it could be
a TV show that I'm watching. But yeah, somebody likes
to have sex with somebody who's married because it gives
them all the freedom to not have to really participate
in the relationship but get the sex when they want it.
Does this man watch his wife have sex with another man?
Is it just something that he allows? So wait, say

(06:30):
it again. I thought you said he likes to have women.
Cup Hold it. It doesn't have to be his wife. Okay,
this is the Google definition of a man make another
man a cuphold by having a sexual relationship with his wife. Yeah,
so you're having sexual relationship with the wife of someone
else's husband. It's not your wife, it's someone else. Yeah,

(06:51):
you like to have affairs with married women, but the
husband knows. Isn't that like part of the whole dynamic?
So again, are they watching? Is this just an exit?
I mean I don't know. I mean they don't always know, though,
I mean I think it's up to like whatever the
party is. But what what's he asked? Well, he wants
to know how to address that. How does he broach
that subject? Don't know, I mean, I don't have any

(07:15):
advice on that because it's all it's cheating, and you
know how christ like I am, I hate cheating. I
think it is just so cowardly the morality. Yeah, so
as long as you're involved with someone being cheated on,
you know, even if you're not cheating on someone and
the person you're fucking is cheating on someone, Yeah, like

(07:38):
that's a guilty party. I know, shit happens. Like we've
all fucking you know, we've all done it, and we've
all been in bad situations where we made poor decisions.
But seriously, okay, So hypothetically, then say that cut holding
is an approved situation for one involved. What if a
man came to you was like, oh, I want to
fund someone else's wife, like they all know and approve

(07:58):
of this. Yeah, it would be hard to not pass
my judgment on that, Like that's so gross. First of all,
men can't talk about fucking wives anymore, Like that's a
wrap on that ship sail. Yeah, the ship is sailed
about men talking about whatever they want to fuck, like
no one cares any more. Parties over so that already
annoys me. So if we flipped the switch and we
say cuckolding is basically a man allowing his wife to

(08:23):
cheat and know about it, he's the one being cuckolded. Yeah,
it's the man whose wife is out on loan like
a rental car. I see, And I don't know. I
always thought the cuck holding and it wasn't even a
cheating aspect, because it was something that was set up that, like,
this guy liked either watching his wife have sex as
someone else or knowing that she was having sex. So

(08:45):
this this is obviously not our area of expertise. Maybe
we could find a cut holding coupled. Maybe if the
fucking word cuckold wasn't so stupid, maybe more people would
know what it meant. I mean, you just it's like
a word you don't even ask twice about. No, that's
an urban dictionary word. It's not one we need to
concern ourselves with. Isn't that what Republicans call liberals cux snowflakes.
I've never put that together, but that sounds right well.

(09:06):
Cut so cut holding it would come from cox. Maybe
it's short for that. It probably is. I I does
that mean they're sleeping with our who's sleeping with who
and not scenario. I don't know someone's getting fucked, but
you know who. I'm not sleeping with people. Okay, well
we'll have to ask somebody else about that. Well, we'll
put an add up on Craigslist. I'm sure someone will respond.

(09:26):
That seems like exactly where you'd find a cut holding
couples Craigslist. Yeah, that seems like it would be easy
to find that online, along with a bunch of other
six ship We hope that answers your question. Well, this
next one is from a woman, and this is where
I think. Is she willing to transition to become a man?
She could. We'll get her on the phone. Her name
is Caitlin, and she says, Dear Chelsea, how do you

(09:47):
tell someone you're going to marry that you want to
prenup without making it awkward? Okay, well, this is something
we could get help from an outside source. But I
would honestly say, yeah, why not get a prenup? In
this fucked up, crazy world where fifty of people get
to worse, All you have to say is write down
the sentence fifty of people get divorced. Put that on
a piece of paper, show it to the person you're marrying,

(10:08):
and say I need a prenup. It doesn't matter how
much we think we love each other, we need to
protect ourselves. I would think that if you're going to
get married, this is a conversation that would have been
had in advance, or that you kind of know the
person's temperament. Like, I don't know how it could be
awkward if the person you're with. Well, because some people's
parents have money and it doesn't come up until you know,

(10:28):
the last minute, or it comes up after you're engaged,
so it's like it's not about you, it's about your
family's money. Like I know plenty of people who have
done that and are like, oh, you know their parents
have a lot of money, or I've seen people who
you know, that's how it happens. You can. I mean,
it could be a variety of reasons. If it's just
one person, like a Jeff Bezos saying hey, I need

(10:50):
a prenup, you know, that's a different story. Would you
get a prenup? Yeah? What if your potential husband also
had money? Definitely? Okay, So it really is just a
way to say life guard yourself regardless. Yeah, safeguard. And
it's like and if, yeah, everyone should be open to
signing a prenup, who gives a ship? I know I
have my own thing going, but still, like, it's just
a way to say, like, it's like guaranteeing not to

(11:13):
get into a fight, right, And Caitlyn, as a woman,
you should just be able to stand the ground and
say that you want to protect what's yours and that's
that you shouldn't You shouldn't have to rationalize it. I
second that emotion. If you were presented with a prenup,
I think a lot of times it's so awkward because
this is finally the last time that you can identify
if someone is in the relationship for money, if that's

(11:34):
an underlying factor for them. If you're presented with the prenup,
is that how you would feel? Yeah? Well, I mean
if you're really asking someone if they're in it for money,
isn't the answer? Yeah, I mean if you have to
ask someone that, can't you? I know it happens all
the time. I know, and maybe just because it hasn't
happened to me, I don't relate to it. But the

(11:56):
idea that you could get married to somebody who's only
in it to get your money, Like, that's a long
way to go. I think it's multifaceted. There are elements
of how long have you been with this person, were
you with them before they had the money, and now
collectively you know you've both invested different things. Well in
Our next submission comes from Lindsay with a similar question,

(12:17):
but hers is regarding divorce, So let's see what you
think on this. She says, I've never been divorced, and
I don't think you have either, so you're the obvious
choice to give advice on the matter. Here's what I
can't figure out. Do you tell your husband you want
to divorce some random night and then spend two weeks
together in the same house or do you tell him
and then walk out of the door and come back
for all of your stuff? What is the worst situation

(12:37):
to move out while he is at work and leave
a note? No one talks about this situation. Plus, we
have two dogs. Can I really take my dogs legally?
Not being an attorney makes you the obvious choice for
legal advice. Asking for your help is just another bad
decision to add to my twenty years of bad decision making.
Thanks in advance for your help your bad decisions. Walking

(12:57):
out the door and leaving a note when you're breaking
up with your husband is not That's not an option
unless he's abusive. So what do you do in the situation?
Down and have a conversation with him? And especially when
they have two dogs? She can't just take the dogs
if they got them. She can out, well, she can
if she was in an abusive relationship or if he was, like,

(13:20):
you know, cheating on her or something. But like handling
it in an adult way is the best way to
handle that conversation. Sitting down and saying, hey, I'm unhappy
in this marriage. Can't just bolt? We got to figure
it out. Yeah, I mean that sounds harsh. Can you
know what? Maybe we should ask Laura Walster about this
as well. What sort of timeline there is when you

(13:41):
finally make the decision that you want the divorce, how
and when to talk to them about it and then
where you go from there? I mean, I can't imagine
that it's a brief or swift move when you finally
make the choice to have the divorce. Maybe she have
some insight for Lindsay Young. Well, yeah, I mean, after
you tell the person, Hey, I'm leaving and then you
stay for two weeks. I would think you have a

(14:02):
game plan, you have something set up. Yeah, you should
have a game like once you make the decision like
I no longer want to be with this person, Like
you know that internally, it's not two weeks like a job,
like I'm giving you two weeks notice. But you have
things kind of in motion or set up, so you
know that you have some work to go if things
go poorly, that you know you have your money available
to you so you can take care of yourself. Right, Yeah, yeah,

(14:25):
I would say so for sure. Well let's see what
Laura Wasser has to say. Hey, but just there she is. Hi,
Laura Wasser. Are you How are you? I'm good. You
know I moved across the street from your ex husband. Yeah,
he's really gone to ship with my kid. As a result,
he got caught vaping at school. I blame you. I

(14:47):
feel like you've been kind of an absent co parent
to me. I know, I know, I do that a lot.
I don't show up in the way that I promised to,
or I show up sporadically, so I'm more of the
father figure husband, like a divorce father is what I
am like. I come in with rainbows and money and
then I leave right before things get serious. All about
a Disneyland parent, Yeah, that's exactly a Disneyland parent. I

(15:10):
would never be caught dead at Disneyland, right. Thank you
for calling us, of course we wanted to ask. We're
giving a lot of advice, solicited advice for the first time,
and people are calling them with legal questions, so obviously
that's a little bit out of my wheelhouse. Yes, which
I kind of like it when you make shut up
though and tell them the legal answers. I've watched it

(15:32):
on Instagrams sometimes I think it's good, you're doing well.
And how accurate does she seem to be in her guidance?
Very much so, I mean about as much, about as
accurate as me and I've been doing it for twenty
six years, so yeah, you're good. Well everything I know
I've learned from you, so thank you. People think that
it's solely for celebrities, and it's not. You hear of it.
More and more people introducing prenups into their relationship preemptively,

(15:55):
really just as a means to make it a smooth transition.
If you do have to divorce. That's not about necessarily
how much you have, or even before even if you're
not planning on getting divorce. Because people are like, oh,
I wouldn't do a prenup, but just pre negotiating my divorce,
that's not what it is. What a prenup is is
a means for you to opt out of what the
law would otherwise be. A lot of people are like,

(16:17):
I'm not down with this whole California community property. The
minute I get married, half of everything I make or
create goes to the other person. I don't like that.
I want to support them, I want to have a
commitment with them. I want to raise kids at them.
But I've been a writer, sculptor, painter, lawyer for all
these years already. What I make and earn and create
I want to be mine, and I'll share some of

(16:38):
it with my spouse. But I don't want it to
automatically be fifty fifty or I've worked really hard. I've
got this amazing lifestyle I'm happy for when we're married.
We fly private, we go to five star resorts, we
have nice meals. But if we split up, I'm not
down with having to continue that. You know, going into
the future, I want us both to be kind of contributing.

(16:59):
So I think it's really important for people, even if
you're not flying private or going to five star resorts,
to have a conversation. So many people come to me
and they don't even know what the law is that
they're entering into when they're getting married. They don't even
know what the law is. Knowing the law, deciding whether
that law fits for you and your partner, and if
it doesn't, kind of figuring out a way to carve

(17:20):
it out so that you make the law that is
applicable to you. Also, by having a prenup, you have
a lot of discussions that you might not otherwise have
when everything's rosy and sexy and romantic and you're planning
this wedding, have some real life discussions, because if you're
going to stay married for a long time, there's gonna
be some not sexy, romantic, loving times in your life.

(17:40):
Might as well start having those communications and having those
tools to get through those times before you get married. Right, Well,
that's the perfect segue because we had a woman, right
and her name is Caitlin, and she wants to know
how to broach that subject of wanting a prenup as
she enters into this relationship. Let's tell her, so, what
do you think how you go into the conversation confidently

(18:01):
and without putting someone on the defense or making them
worried that the relationship doesn't have longevity. I think you say,
this is something that's really important to me that through.
I hope we stay married forever. However, in order to
do that, we're going to have to have some real
life moments here. One maybe when I'm giving birth to

(18:22):
your child and I like poop on the delivery table.
One might be having a discussion about money and finances
and what's mine and what's yours, and what our expectations
of each other are, and a testaments how much I
love you and how much I want this to work.
Is entering into this discussion now, which isn't super comfortable
for me, but I want to do it so that
we're able to make it through anything. M That's a

(18:45):
great way to frame it, that we're able to make
it through anything. I like that sentence. Write that down, sweetheart,
The way that you just spoke about that, it really
seems to be a safeguard for both people. So even
if one person maybe the breadwinner, and the other person
is taking care of, you know, stereotypically more domestic aspects
of the relationship, it's really protecting them both in the
long run to negotiate what they would like. And it's

(19:08):
also an eye opener for both. You have so many
people that are these supported spouts that go into relationships
and they're constantly like looking over their shoulder. They don't
know what the rights will be, what happens if we
break up? Am I going to have to move out
of my home? Am I going to have to get
a job working at the landcomb counter and even markets? Like?
What's going to happen to me? Let's talk about that now.
Let's figure out exactly how to protect both of you

(19:29):
and make you feel comfortable so that you're equipped no
matter what ends up happening. Yeah, because a lot of people, though,
would argue I think that for a woman agreeing to
get a pre nup with a man that has more money, right,
if I were to get married, which I won't, but
if I were and somebody had a lot more money
than I did them asking for the prenup, it invokes
a certain amount of like unease, Right, it makes you

(19:51):
feel uneasy to have to have the discussion about potentially
breaking up. So there is a natural defense that comes
up right when people are faced with us. Unless you're
dealing with two people who both agree they want a
prenup and for their own reasons, right, have you seen
that men or women are more resistant to a prenup?
Because around l A there are a lot of very
well to do women who enter in relationships knowing they

(20:14):
want a prenup. Is it harder for a man to
accept because of his masculinity. No. Most men are like,
I'm down with that. I'm a guy, I can But
the women that I've represented, particularly younger ones whose managers
or parents or entertainment lawyers are like, you really need
to get a prenup, They're very resistant because they really

(20:34):
want it to be romantic and loving. Most of the time,
the guys are like, yeah, I'm fine with that. I
have had women that have been asked to sign prenups
by their male counterparts who are very offended. And I
say that the guys, because I'm usually representing them, you
need to really look at that. You need to really
look at why they're so offended. A lot of prenups

(20:55):
give an annual gift to the less moneyed spouse. I
mean they're actually doing better as a result of having
a prenup than they would if not. So I mean
it's not always like screw you. If we break up,
you're leaving and you're going to go live in a
refrigerator box under a bridge. The refusal to kind of
get educated and understand what's happening and be a partner

(21:17):
in the relationship is something I think anybody who is
being met with that kind of resistance really needs to
examine before they enter under a marriage with that person. Well,
it's such a good point because people forget and we're
not set up at a young age to acknowledge the
fact that a relationship is a business to some degree.
It's it's work that you enter into these things, and
it's not smooth sailing. It's constant addressing the issues and

(21:41):
reassessing and growing. And part of that is the monetary
side and the collection and the accumulation of things together.
So it's much easier to separate those with the brain
up and as women particularly, we're so quick to abdicate.
I don't want to hear about that. I want to
worry about being pretty and doing that. I don't want
to think about money. I don't want to be bothered

(22:02):
at that. If you want to answer into a relationship
with someone, even if they have more money than you're
starting out and be a real partner to them, find
out about the money. Insists that you go to the
quarterly meetings with the business manager. Even if it's not
your money. You're still using that money to live, raise
your children. Get involved in some of it, because it
really does it will enable you to grow better together

(22:24):
as partners. Okay, So Laura, we had a caller call
in our a listener. Well, she then she became a
caller when she called, and she called him with a
story about she wants to get divorced, but she doesn't know,
like in what order she's supposed to do things. Does
she tell her husband she wants to get divorced and
then move out immediately? Does she tell her husband she
wants to get divorced and then stay a couple of weeks?

(22:45):
And she has two dogs? She's like, am I allowed
to take them? And I'm like, yeah, you know what,
great question? I have no fucking idea. Is it best
to put something in place of a place to go,
a way to get yourself out of a potentially complicated
situation or harmful. Like what would you say to someone
who's coming in and they're like, I know, I want
a divorce? What now? So I think again? It depends
a lot on the circumstances, Like God forbid, you're in

(23:08):
an abusive relationship and you tell your stuff that you
want a divorce and you get the ship beat out
of you. That's not good. But sometimes it's really just
a difficult conversation. Sometimes what do we do about the kids?
We don't want the kids to think mommy's leaving daddy. Also,
the law in different states is different, but in almost
every state there's nothing like an abandonment anymore. That's not

(23:28):
very US friendly. So particular in California, you don't have
to worry about leaving the house and somebody saying, oh,
you abandoned the house, so now your rights are kind
if you own part of the house, you can leave,
it's okay. But I would always recommend that somebody either
goes online, makes a consultation a point with an attorney,
figures out what the law is in your state to
start putting your ducks in a row. That's why we

(23:50):
created It's over Easy the website. There's a ton of
information on there. Even if you're not ready to start
filing divorce papers, educate yourself so that you can put
a plan in place. As for the dog, interesting question, Chelsea.
Always dogs have been chattel property no more than you
know this this bowl. Whoever bought the bowl, that's who
owns the dogs. Now in California, we've changed that law

(24:12):
a little only in the last couple of years, to
say that a judge may actually listen to evidence about
who took care of the dogs, who had a better
bond with the dogs. I mean, I know this is
the kind of stuff that you care about, and that
person even if the dogs were not purchased by one
or the other, or they were purchased jointly. Because they're
not going to cut a dog in half, sometimes will
be I mean, I'm not opposed to splitting a dog

(24:33):
in half. I want the back half of birth. If
my bell ever takes him, I'm want the back half off.
So that law has changed a little bit, but generally
they're just property, just like a car or a vase
or whatever else. So will they interview the dogs. No,
they don't do like a child custody evaluation like they
do with kids. But you could actually give a judge

(24:55):
evidence like, yes, I bought this dog for my husband
for his birthday, so generally it would be characterize as
a separate property asset because it was a gift to
my husband. However, my husband never did anything with the dog.
I took the dog, I walked the dog, and I judge, Michael,
you know what, I'm gonna find that the dog's ears.
That's like literally in the past year and a half
new law. So but what would your advice be to

(25:17):
we do we know what state she's in, because she
was asking if she if she could take her two dogs,
what would be the repercussions of that? And I guess
what you're saying is that she can do that. Probably right,
and again, I think and similarly to kids, I mean,
if you're not if you don't have any orders in place,
and you need to go somewhere to kind of get clear,
as long as you're not like kidnapping them, you leave

(25:38):
an email thing. Listen, I'm gonna move out for a
little bit. I've got the dogs. Let's discuss this. I'm
not disappearing with them, but I just think we need
a little bit of physical space, and I don't want
you to worry you will see them again. That is
what I would probably tell her to do, because I
don't think anybody is then going to accuse her of
stealing the dog. She's just taking the dogs for right now,
all right. So that's a great advice. What what other

(26:00):
like top tips does Laura Wasser have for people going
through a divorce to make it just an easy event
for everyone, Like, no one wants to go through a divorce,
and it's never gonna be easy. It's heartbreaking, it's difficult,
it's confusing. But my top tips would be educate yourself,
find out what the law is in your state and
how it applies to you. And if you didn't know
a lot about some of the financial stuff, find out.

(26:21):
There's basically four components to the financial part of a divorce,
right There's what you have, what you own, what you owe,
any debts you have, if you've got you know, mortgages
or car leases, loans or whatever, what you earn you
and your spouse, and what you spent, how much what's
your budget every month with those are the four things.
Find that shipped out. Find out what the law is

(26:42):
in your state. If you've got kids, you have got
to figure out a way. Most states now, particularly California
and New York, but now almost everywhere in between, are
much more dad centric than we used to be. Dads
are no longer seen kids every other weekend and one
Wednesday for dinner. We really are sharing custody more. We

(27:02):
want your kids to be able to have as much
time with both of their parents as possible, because in
most instances, we believe that's best for your kids. Remember,
if you have kids, you're going to be dealing with
this person for the rest of your life, So don't
burn a bridge. Okay, I mean so many people say
and write things they regret to their spouse as they're

(27:22):
going through a divorce. And the greatest is they're paying
somebody to write and save these things because they're paying
some lawyer to do it. Take it back. Think about
the moment when you fell in love with that person,
when we were with them and you first had that baby.
Think about the things you loved about that person. You
don't want to live with them anymore, You don't want
to be marry to them anymore. But you are going
to co parent with them. You are probably still going

(27:44):
to be sharing some assets with them. One of you
is going to be writing the other one at support
check for a certain period of time. Figure out a
way to make it as pleasant and civil and respectful
as possible. That's what I would say is the main tip.
Because I've heard so many people say to me, runly
new then what I know now about this, I would
have approached it so much differently. I spent so much

(28:06):
money and so much toxic energy going through this. If
I could have approached it more like a business transaction
and approached it with a little bit more, you know,
the golden rule, do unto others. Treated my spouse like
I would have liked to be treated, and he would
have done the name you will. It's not gonna be easy.
It's still gonna be scary and heartbreaking and whatever, but
you'll come through it to the other end in your
next chapter, and you'll be so much better off. I

(28:27):
have a bunch of friends who are going through divorce. Actually,
what age or kids allowed to decide if they want
to be like you know, at a certain point it's
their decision if they want to go to the dad's
or if they want to stay with the mom. Right,
not really, not really. At a certain point there their
position will be heard by a judge. It's usually thirteen
or fourteen in California, but they don't get to decide.
I mean, let me tell you something. If your dad's

(28:48):
you know, the dad that's like in the den smoking
a bomb five nights a week, and and you're a teenager,
you're like, I want to go live with dad. Your
preference will be taken into consideration by the judge, but
you're still a minor, and so your best interests are
still going to be decided and factored into everything else.
So yes, you can have a say, it's not going
to be till your thirteen or fourteen. That's in California.

(29:09):
Other states take it differently. Almost every state has really
said by now, we don't want a kid on the
stand in a courtroom like you saw in the movies
from the sixties and seventies saying what he or she wants.
So usually either going chambers and talk to the judge
with a court reporter there, or they'll have a mental
health evaluator that they'll speak with and talk about their
preference and why that's their preference? Is that their preference?
Because mom really understands when I'm going through because I

(29:32):
like boys and I might lose my virginity and have
my period and i'm and I'm a girl. Or is
it because dad lets me be on my computer and
my iPad and my play games as much as I want? What?
Why is that your preference? And then what's going to
be in your best interest? So I think the moral
of the story is, do not get married and do
not have children. You should have children, children, okay, And
if you're gonna get married, get married knowing that this

(29:55):
is a relationship like any other relationship, that you have
to work at if you want it to work, and
if for some reason it doesn't or things change, which
obviously happens quite a bit. I mean, look, when we
used to live till we were thirty five, getting married
till death do us part was a lot easier than
if you're living into years old. That person is going
to start getting a little stale for you. Oh my god,

(30:15):
if I live till ninety, shoot me, seriously, I do
not want to be around and see what we'll be
willing you over around and your depends sweetheart, sweetheart, don't
say such things, Laura. I can ask one more question.
This is just a personal interesting question. I love any
time I see an attorney remove themselves from a case.
Why would an attorney choose to not move forward with

(30:36):
their client choose to like when I see, like, okay,
that so and so is no longer representing them. Is
it like a joint decision that they make, or is
an attorney like I'm tapping out, like this is just
too much for me? It depends. Are you talking about
Britney Spears and her lawyer from that? Oh? No, I
would love to talk about that if you have if
you have any insight or any thoughts on on a
conservator ship. I have no insight. I cannot read that.

(31:00):
I would like to put Chelsea on a conservator ship
if it all possible, and I would love your help
with that. But if we just made Chelsea Brittany's conservator,
I would do that. I think I'm qualified to take
care of her. I wouldn't overwork her, and I would
be sympathetic to her, very sympathetic, I am. I mean,
how does something like that happen? Though? Laura like, how
does he get to be her conservator? Like? Why is

(31:20):
her mother not in that role? You can't, Laura's too
close to She's She's she's too in Hollywood. All right,
Well forget it. Thanks for nothing, Laura, I can't believe you. Okay, Well,
this was very helpful for the questions that you did
choose to I would love to get Laura back. I
love anything legal I know, and I love you Laura.
I love you guys too. Anytime when Catherine Law tells
me I have to be somewhere, I just show up. Awesome.

(31:43):
I love it. Thank you so much, Laura. Guys have
a good one. Catherine Law, for the record, is one
of our producers in the podcast. There are a lot
of people behind the scenes who make this all come
together and work, and one of them is. One of
them is Catherine, who got a little her hair is
pink and she's got a cute French opening. Get back
to Britney Spears for a second. I watched that New
York Times Hulu documentary. It's pretty upsetting. It's very upsetting.

(32:08):
I mean, I can't imagine they either have her on
so many drugs or she's been lobotomized because something is
really off right, like something's wrong. So my friend said,
it feels like she got electric shock therapy, and I
was like, oh my god, do you think so? And
it's like, well, of course yeah, that nothing would be
surprising in this fucking town, right, But why is her

(32:28):
father in that role? So the way I understand is
that the conservator has to be requested by a person,
So her father probably is the onlooker saw something going
on and maybe with good intention to like, we need
to get her back on track. But then there becomes
a point which I think she has surpassed, where that
person is capable of taking care of themselves. They've gotten

(32:49):
out of this situation. Well, if she's working, which she
was as soon as that conservatorship happened, he cleaned up
her act and sent her out to work, right, she's
able to work at that capacity, then she is a
will to also take care of herself in a sense.
So if the conservator the fact that he is making
money off of her is a complete conflict of interest,
well it's the whole team of people making money off

(33:11):
of her. And what people should understand celebrities have a
team around them there's like a nucleus, which is the
celebrity and then the people all around. Yeah, it's like
you're you're the center nucles. There's no use after the
sea and nu nucle That's like when George W. Bush
said nuclear nuclear nuclear. Anyway, So the celebrities at the

(33:31):
center of it, and there are people around them, a
business manager who who helps them manage their finances and
keep them on track. And sometimes they're bad, a lot
of times they're really great. You have managers and agents,
you have all these people who you do end up
paying out to to help keep your brand on track.
Your assistant. Yes, everyone wants you to be successful because
they're all making money off of that. However, her team
has become so expansive that the number of people she's

(33:54):
paying is no longer proportionate for her situation. Well, and
it's also like a concern of it. Her in my opinion,
should be a legal guardian that is getting paid a
salary and that's it. There's no like you know, commission.
So he was supposed to be helping oversee her finances,
which she already has a business manager in place to

(34:15):
do so. Again, they're kind of like doubling down on
that to just to make sure she's not overspending in
certain ways and that she's retaining her wealth, which is
good and appropriate. The personal control is what I think
more people have issue with in this situation that some
people are just not good money managers, but her not
being able to drive a car, her not being able
to kind of leave at her own will, or having

(34:36):
to check in on where she's going and who she's
with at a certain point. If she's going to make
bad decisions, she's an adult. She should be allowed to
make those. Yeah, and then and she doesn't see those kids,
those boys, like there must be a medical reason. It
just all is like white male patriarchy, the judicial system,
the father getting they go to court, keep going to court,

(34:57):
and he keeps winning. Well. I think that's why she
likes say, I don't want him to be my conservator.
And right now I believe she has a woman as
a co conservator who she's asked to take over the
permanent role and remove her father. And I'm sure that
there is a comfort that comes with having a woman.
Women need other women because it's women supporting women, whereas
I'm sure for a woman it feels very much I'm

(35:17):
being controlled by this man whereas I'm being guided by
this woman. Yeah, it's an unfortunate situation. And again, if
you want to look this up, you can go to
it's over easy dot com. That's Laura Wasser's website to
help you get divorced quickly over easy. So the last
write in for the day is not so much about
an intimate partner, but sort of the platonic relationships in

(35:38):
your life that we all go through this. So I'm
interested to get your take on this, She says, Dear Chelsea,
what is the best way to tell some of my
loser friends to get out of my life? So hard?
It is so hard, but it has to be done sometimes,
I know, but it's so hard, it really is. I
end up just participating in the relationship and just making
myself fucking nuts because of it. God, I have so

(36:01):
many situations where I'm just like, are you fucking kidding me?
Why am I still in this relationship? I don't know, Brandon,
you're pretty good. I mean you don't have a lot
of friends. No, I have basically zero friends because I
don't That's what I mean. I don't know. People are
so annoying, and but no, not everyone is annoying. Some
people are not annoying, and some people are awesome friends.

(36:23):
A lot of people are annoying. A lot of people
suck suck, suck energy or you've allowed yourself to expend
too much energy on them. And that's the story of
my life. Well, so what I started doing was I
overly invested in a lot of relationships and friendships. Like
I would if I've not heard from you a year,
I would still drop a birthday gift off at your door,
like I'd be the one offered. I'd be the one

(36:43):
offered to take you to the airport. And as soon
as I realized, and this was during quarantine, that was like,
I'm not going to keep investing time. It's not equitable
in these relationships. So once you make the decision to
not overly invest yourself, those people fade away. So I
don't even know. That's nessarily something you have to tell
people most of the time. Hello, I have like five

(37:04):
examples of people that you do have to tell because
I've not returned their text, I've not done so many things,
and they do not get it listening to this podcast,
and they will still not get it, but she says
lose her friends. So imagine these people don't have a
super high commitment to whatever the friendship is anyway, and
then a lot of people just fade into the background.
And that's kind of the best way to deal with

(37:25):
it is you don't overly invest. People just kind of
distance itself naturally. But to your point, a lot of
times people do not get the fucking hint. No, I
just I can't understand how people don't get the hint
when you don't want to hang out. Can you remember
the last time that you had to verbally tell someone like,
I'm no longer interested in this relationship? Well, I had

(37:47):
to do that with a guy that I started seeing.
It was just because I was I was done seeing him.
It was that it was a wrap and he didn't
get the hint. So I had to say it. Is
it harder in a more intimate relationship like that then
with a friend? What do you find? I think it's
harder with a friend because there's history with the with
the guy you're dating. It's like, you know, whatever you've
known for a few weeks or a few months, it's

(38:08):
not that big of a deal. So there's not water
under the bridge. With friends, it's like you know their
history and how sensitive they can be and how they'll
react if you blow them off, like actually say, hey,
I don't want to be friends with you anymore. It
seems pretty harsh thing to say you had a history
for a while, what you've discussed where you would just
kind of cut people off as soon as they did

(38:28):
something that you did not like or gross you out.
I'm a friendship end, Yeah, And that's right. You would
be like, no more, no interesting people and their friendships
with me for something I've done. But I have a
lot of friendships that end for sure. Do you feel
that it is healthier to try and maintain some sort
of communication with all of your friends, even if it's
not one that you want to engage in often? I mean,

(38:51):
I'm so serious about like saying the truth and telling
people the truth that people I understand do not like
that and that they don't want to hear the truth
or my version of the truth. So I have a
really hard time not expressing that that could be a
friendship ender because I've had it and then this is it.

(39:13):
Or I tell someone the truth and they're like whoa,
whoa WHOA, WHOA, like they don't want to hear that. Okay,
there's a large conversation going on right now, kind of
generally about mental health and investing your energy and time
into the right things that provide you something. So do
you feel that it is better to maintain some sort
of connection with people or cut them off completely, like

(39:35):
for your own mental well being? Yeah, I think for
your own mental well being, it's better to maintain a
connection with everybody and have good vibes with people you
know and try and maintain some level of decorum or friendship. Yeah.
I think that's probably the healthier way to go through life.
I try and often remind myself that everyone has something
worth enjoying. Everyone has an aspect of something you would

(39:58):
like about them as a friend. It's sucking hard sometimes
because that's very Jesuit of you. Well, it's not the
trait that comes out most often, which is the hard part.
So normally this is what I do if I don't
like someone anymore. I go through these phases where I
really want gay friends, and then as soon as I
get them, I would just want to drop him with
the nearest goodwill, Like I want nothing to do with them,
so then I have to pawn them off my boyfriend,

(40:18):
I'm like, oh, I had to change my number or
I'm out of town. What's the worst is when I
tell him I'm doing something with you and they see
you're out of town and I'm like, fuck. But you
can always blame me. You could always just say you're
doing something of that or that my Bell needs, you know,
some sort of body wax. For those of you who
don't know, my Bell is my housekeeper. She's been my
housekeeper for a very long time and she has a

(40:40):
maternal instinct and I don't. And that's why my dogs
love her and hate me. I said, I had to
go over and brush your hair when I was like,
she couldn't get her extensions out and I have to
go take them out for her. God, my extensions. Those
were so disgusting. Well thanks, you're sweetheart. Now they're gone.
What do you mean thanks to my sweeeart? Did you
cut them out? You're sleeping? I know that we really

(41:00):
answered that thoroughly for her, but okay, so yeah, I guess,
try and do it softly by stop returning their calls
and texts. Try and do it like that, and if
it takes more than five times. Just say hey, I'm
going through something. I really don't have time to hang
out for the next you know, a few months, I'll
call you when my crisis. I'll be in touch. I'll
be in touch. I'll be in touch. Is a great

(41:22):
way to end everything. Just I'll be hey, I'm sorry
you haven't heard from me for a while, but I'm
dealing with a lot of stuff right now. I don't
have time to hang out. I'll be in touch. That's perfect,
That's all you need. Why don't we take this moment
to take a little break. And I'd like to read
an ad. Actually, what was the last instance where you

(41:46):
had to dump a friend? The last instance? It's an
ongoing process because it doesn't take Yeah, I I say
that you're thinning the herd because when I started working
for you, which was five years ago, there were a
lot of people in the mix. There are a lot
of people on trips, there are a lot of people
popping in and out of the house. It isn't much smaller,
and I would say better group now in terms of quality.

(42:10):
This is a friend that I've had for many, many years,
an old friend who every once in a while pops up,
but it's always something work related, like do I want
to do this for her friends production? Do I want
to do this for a friend's production? Do I want
to do this? It's kind of always like that. Or
we have another friend in common, and she kind of

(42:34):
when that friend is around, will invite me around to
get me there for my other friend, right, and so
I obviously don't participate in that because it feels weird. Yes, yes, yes, yes.
So anyway, she emails me and she'll text me every
once in a while, and I just have always had

(42:54):
this feeling about her that I don't find her sincere,
and I find her to be a bit you know,
she's always working everything, which is very common in l A. Yes,
that's very common. So she texted me the other day
and was asking for us to get together out of
nowhere or she mentioned, oh I saw so and so
da dada, they said that you guys were just together

(43:16):
here and there and again it was like that weird,
you know, she just rubbed me the wrong way. So
then she texted me the other night and said, hey,
do you want to go to dinner? I'm back on
this date. Are you back from Canada? And I just said,
I am back from Canada, no time for dinner. Sorry,
I'm trying to figure out who this is. You wouldn't

(43:37):
know her, So this person is really not like part
of your No. No, no, no, not part of her. No,
you wouldn't even know her. But she's somebody who just
resurfaces all the time. And I'm not trying to end
the friendship. But I'm not going to dinner just to
be nice anymore. Why, which is okay? Yeah, it feels
good to say no and you can't like that is
a full, full sentence. No, that's it, like I don't

(44:00):
want to do that, and I don't owe you an
explanation exactly the explanation of like the excuse, like I
wanted to come, but it's like I'm not coming. Yeah. Sorry.
Do you feel like the friends that you have longevity
with and that you can be open with would you
give them that same response like no, I don't want
to or do you feel more of a need with
those people that you are good with my friends? I

(44:22):
could say I'm not in the mood for that, or
I don't want to do that or blah blah blah.
Those are the best friendships. Yeah, of course, and that's
how it should be with everybody. You shouldn't be doing
anything that like, I mean, the idea of going to
dinner with someone that I'm not really interested in seeing
it is not on the menu for me. There's nothing worse.
You said it when we've been somewhere, that I will
make an audible sound if I'm disinterested, or you can

(44:43):
see it on my face that like, I will roll
my eyes and I don't even I don't even know.
But that's why I don't engage in things I really
don't want to do because I'm I could never be
an actor. I hide it so poorly that I don't
want to. I also hide it poorly, which is why
it's even more frustrating for the people that the people
that I'm trying to blow off do not get it
because I'm not. There's no mirror shield here. They think

(45:04):
you're having a great time. So what what's wrong with
them that they don't understand that I no longer want
to engage. People are just very dense. It's hard for
them to understand that someone wouldn't want to hang out.
I think they're just, you know, they've got nothing going on.
But was this example, applying what we were talking about
with the last Well, I think you know, she wanted

(45:25):
to broach the subject of not being interested in friendships
anymore with some of these people in her life. Yeah, right, yeah,
so I think that that does apply. Right. You could
easily just say don't have time now, keep it short
and sweet, and don't worry about what their reaction is
to that. My friend's reaction was like, got it will
catch up in a couple of months. That was her reaction,
which is perfect. And see, I've just gotten to the point,

(45:47):
like you where no, I don't want to do this,
where if I feel like a relationship is kind of
run its course, saying that being like, hey, you know,
like we used to have a really good time together
and that was great, but like, you know, we're both
different paths now, or like I'm investing time myself, like
I really don't have time or energy to do that
right now. I don't know that sounds a little bit much.
I'm investing time in myself. It's just like I don't

(46:08):
have time right now. I'm sorry, period, that's it, because
you don't have the time. So I'm explaining too much.
Don't explain don't over explain. That's the minute. And then
that's when lies come in because we always are like
I was gonna come. It's so much cooler just to
say I'm not coming. Sorry, didn't work out tonight. Sorry
that in my phone. Yeah, I don't over explain because

(46:28):
I just feel like that just sounds like bullshit anyway.
I mean it probably is. It does. It sounds like bullshit,
and you know it's just another excuse. So you just
have to be direct. That's the moral of the story
in this episode. Yeah, If that's the moral of the
story of the season, I want a divorce. Goodbye. There
was a lot going on here today. What did you
take away from all this relationship the dynamics of them.

(46:51):
I think that comes back to the same fucking thing
all the time is that people a are annoying and
then be It's hard to have conversations about anything, right.
But I think the overarching advice that we gave is
that you have to just be honest with your communication
and just address it head on. I mean, you just
have to have that conversation. There's really no way around it.

(47:12):
Whether it's a note or in person, you're going to
have to deal with it. Yeah, yeah, you gotta just
sucking go for it. And the sooner the conversation happens,
the sooner it's over, and the sooner you have your
answer on the other side, you know, like it's just
saying it. It's just the ramping up to the actual
encounter that is the most anxiety induce it. What was

(47:32):
the most anxiety inducing for me during this episode was
thinking about you married. Oh my god, I won't get married.
Who's going to marry me anyway? Someone would? Someone will
if you wanted to, they would for sure. But I
couldn't go through that. You mean the actual wedding or
the post all of it, the lead up or the breakdown.
I don't want it. Like I want you to have
someone for intercourse. I support you and that, thank you

(47:54):
for that, even a live in to some degree, but
just everything that comes along with someone. I'm also in
support of that. Or maybe it's a Tim Burton and
Helena Bottom Carter thing. They just shared a common wing,
but they each have their own sides of the house.
Aren't they fucking divorced? Because he was having an affair
with the nanny. Let's call Laura Walster back will find out. Okay, Well,
I want to thank you listeners for calling in and

(48:16):
asking for our advice. I know how magical it must
be for you to get it. I would like to
thank my co host Brandon and his very bushy eyebrows.
But yeah, we want to say thank you for listening
and that we will be back here. We should be
announcing something, probably tour dates coming up, or you're getting
back on the road. Oh, don't say it like that.

(48:37):
That makes me sound like a motorcycle mama. I would
love for you to travel between cities on a motorcycle.
Oh my god, can you imagine what kind of shield
I would need. We could get a sidecar for Bert.
Bert would love it with those goggles on. That would
be so cute. I'll figure that out for your sweetheart.
Until next time, okay, Sam, And of course you've always

(49:00):
email your issues, your questions, your thoughts to Dear Chelsea
Project at gmail dot com. Again, Dear Chelsea Project at
gmail dot com. Problem solved.