Kill Them (with Kindness) with Julianna Margulies

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, Catherine, Hi Chelsea. Hi, Well, I have been traveling
like a little at easter Bunny. Yeah, you're making my
rounds around the world, and I cannot tell you how
exciting and fun it is. It's so nice to be
out of the country. I've been out of the country.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
I have to ask you, you have been so many
places this summer. You're going to Africa, are going to
all these different places. Is there anything still on your
bucket list? What's still on your bucket list?

Speaker 3 (00:23):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Yeah, of course. I haven't been to a lot of places.
I have never been to Prague. I've never been to Beirut,
which is supposed to be really interesting. I've never been
to Well. I would like to go to Istanbul, and
I want to go to Jordan. I want to go
to Jordan.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Oh yeah, So isn't that where that church that's like
carved into the stone is from Indiana Jones.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
I'm not sure about that. But I need to know
someone who has lived in any of these places when
I go, because when I go to somewhere that I
really need to like, usually we get a tour guide
and that's fine. You know, they're actually very informative and
it's It's a good way to learn about the city
better than me left to my own devices, because I'll
just end up at a cafe drinking all day if
nobody says anything. But yeah, I don't know. I have

(01:05):
to find out who to take those trips with, and
I like to be with somebody who's been there before,
Like India is another place that I would like to
go back to without working, because when I went there,
I was filming as well. Russia. I've been there. I'm
wrapped on Russia as everyone. You're good with that, I'm
good with that. So I don't know what I have
on my bucket list. Probably I want to take my

(01:26):
sisters to Bora Borat because they've never been there and
that was one of the happiest trips of my life,
which I've discussed on the show. Oh. I also started
reading The Body Keeps the Score You did. It's pretty heavy,
Like I didn't realize how heavy it was. So I
started reading that, and then I realized I have eight
books i'm reading, and with traveling, I'm downloading them on
my kindle. I mean, oh, sorry, I don't have a
kiddled my iPad, but my iPad's fucking battery runs out

(01:50):
so quickly, so it's very so I need a hardcover,
and I much prefer a hardcover anyway. But I'm in
the middle of like six books, and when I travel,
I don't read as much because I'm too busy gallivan
hunting around, you know, hooking up with strangers and chatting
to meet friends and being like that.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Yeah, well, okay, tell me if you can help me
with this, because Brad and I are going well, we
have our fifteenth wedding anniversary this year. Oh my god,
how wild?

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Fifteen years is a long time, a long.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Time, and we've been together for eighteen oh like truly,
if we had gotten pregnant our first night dating, then
we would basically have a high school graduate.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Yeah, but what kind of fucking logic is that we
are not talking about that I was almost in a
plane crash. What do you mean?

Speaker 4 (02:32):
Yeah, it does feel that way, but I.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Actually it was pregnant when I was fifteen years old,
So if I had a baby, that's something to talk about.
If I had a baby. If I had had my
baby when I was pregnant, wait, let's do the math
on this. I would be he would be I'm forty eight,
that baby would be thirty. Shit, I would have a
thirty three year old baby. Wow, well you woun to

(02:57):
be a baby. I don't know why it's a he
but yeah, oh god, thank god you made some right
life choices.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
So we are going away somewhere for our fifteenth anniversary.

Speaker 4 (03:12):
Underware.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Okay, Brad says his limit for a trip is nine days.
He won't go for longer than way to Italy for
a month.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
We can work from there. He's like, no, why, Brad,
what's your doing? I get stir crazy, stir crazy. You're
on vacation.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
But I've got other stuff that I like to do, Chelsea.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
Yeah, I got shit to do.

Speaker 3 (03:35):
No, I feel like nine days you start to feel like,
all right, I'm ready to go home now.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
Oh that's so funny. I never feel like it's time
to go home.

Speaker 4 (03:44):
I mean, don't get me wrong.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
I like being on the road. I like traveling, but
then at a certain point I'm ready for my own
bed and a comfortable familiar surrounding.

Speaker 5 (03:51):
You know.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
Okay, so nine minutes, get back to nine days. I
don't well, you could do that anything. I don't know
where you would go for nine days? You could break
it up. Go to Italy, go to Pulia. Yeah yeah,
people like those pictures there. And then there's Chinca tra
or Sinca Ta, I don't know how you say it.
And that's supposed to be beautiful. You can bounce around

(04:13):
Italy in nine.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
Days, That's what I'm kind of.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Florence is the best city in Italy in my opinion
that I've been to, most like the most beautiful, sexy,
beautiful museums there. I mean, Rome is cool, but Rome's
like a shit show.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
Yeah, out of control. Yeah. I've literally been trying to
get her to go to Italy with me for like.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
Oh, there you go.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
That's so any time you just take me.

Speaker 5 (04:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
The thing is with my house in my Orca. I
stopped going to Italy when I bought this house. I
don't really go anywhere else except for my worka so yeah,
but I'm heading to Portugal soon, so we'll see how
that goes.

Speaker 4 (04:45):
That will be fun.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
We were almost going to go to Portugal because my
cousin was getting married there and now she's getting married
in La.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
I need to find a Spanish, Portuguese or Italian man
that is taller and bigger than me.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Who knows the area so he can take you on tours.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah yeah, yeah and broken English like that, back and forth.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, send us your recommendations, everybody.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
Okay, okay, guys, we have added more shows to my
Little Big Bitch tour because I'm coming all over. We
added a second show at the Pantagius in Los Angeles,
so that's October twelfth and Friday the thirteenth. We added
a second show in Boston at the Waning Center September
twenty ninth and thirtieth is two shows in New York.
I also have a show in East Hampton, New York,

(05:24):
August twenty six. We added a second show in Portland,
so Thursday, November tewod Friday November third, and Portland November
fourth and fifth. In San Francisco, two shows there. We
added a second show in Seattle November tenth and eleventh.
Two shows Boston are November sixteenth and seventeenth at the
Bach Center at Wang Theater. And I'm also coming to

(05:48):
Toronto and Montreal and Ottawa and so many other cities Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, Louisville.
So I will see everybody at all of these shows.
Thank you, get your tickets at Chelseahandler dot com. Our
guest today is back by popular demand. Many of you
love her because you've heard her on this podcast, or

(06:11):
I should say you love her on this podcast if
that's not how you've heard of her. But she's a
very good friend of mine, and it is an absolute
delight because she loves giving advice as much as I do.
Juliana Marghi, le's Catherine. Hi, Hi, your favorite person is here?

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Hi, Catherine, Hi, Juliana.

Speaker 4 (06:29):
I knew Katherine wasn't going to be here, so I
didn't bring you this disgusting.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
I heard Macha lemonade.

Speaker 4 (06:38):
So there's a store downstairs, and I was like, well,
she's probably already had coffee. I've had coffee. What's a
Maucha lemonade?

Speaker 1 (06:44):
You've been watching too much of Keeping Up with the Kardashians.
Oh no, it's not called that anymore. What is it
called the Kardashians? The kardash Courtney Kardashian All. She bangs
on about Macha lemonade the whole time.

Speaker 4 (06:55):
Do you know I've never seen one episode?

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Of course you haven't. Good for you?

Speaker 4 (06:59):
Okay, Hi, Hi?

Speaker 1 (07:01):
More than that. Later we'll talk about it. I'm sure
we are. We have our very sexual guest. She's back
by popular demand because of her sexual voice and her
sexual advice. Juliana marky Lea's is back for the What time?
Is this the third time?

Speaker 4 (07:17):
Third time?

Speaker 1 (07:18):
I love it? But we're on season four, so we're
gonna have to double up because you need to be
in and I think we need to stop having seasons. Catherine,
isn't that girl?

Speaker 4 (07:25):
How does the podcast season work?

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Exactly?

Speaker 4 (07:27):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (07:28):
We make it up as we go along. Basically fiscal year?

Speaker 4 (07:31):
How does that work? Do I do my taxes by it?

Speaker 1 (07:36):
It's basically whenever I decide I need two weeks off,
that's the break we get.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
Got it? And this time I'm just your cohort.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, I mean, I don't even have any questions to
ask you, because I've talked to you all the time. Actually,
I do have some questions to ask you. Juliana and
I have a date tonight.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
We have a romantic evening planned.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
Because Juliana also has a birthday coming up tomorrow, which
she wants to spend with her husband. I'm not sure why,
but I'll go with it.

Speaker 3 (08:01):
I know.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Chelsea was like, no, let's do it on your birthday.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
I'm like, ah, I'm a husband, have dinner.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
What does he have to do with anything?

Speaker 4 (08:13):
You can? Yeah, so we're doing it. Actually it's better because,
first of all, I want to say one thing. I
was listening to a podcast. Rarely do I not listen
to yours, Okay, but I heard Dion von Furstenberg on
Julia Louis Dreyfus is Wiser than me.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Oh yeah, I heard. That's a great podcast.

Speaker 4 (08:30):
It's great. I think I texted you and I was like, Chelsea,
you need to listen to this because it's all women
are older than her, and she and Julie is older
than us. So it's just these beautiful words of wisdom.
And Dion, who I know, but oftentimes when I see her,
I can't really understand what she's saying. I've met, but

(08:50):
she was so clear on this podcast. Anyway, I was
watering my garden last weekend and one of the questions
that Julia Louis Dreyfus always asks her guests or do
you mind if I ask you your age? And most
of them all say not at all, I'm seventy five
whatever not Dion. Dion said, you can but I don't
like the way you phrased it. I like to say,

(09:12):
how many years have you lived? It's much more honorable
it is. And I realize, like, yeah, to say even
to a kid, like how many years have you lived
on this planet? I've lived nine years. It suddenly makes
age seem exciting, yeah, rather than horrifying.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
I agree with that. I've been actually examining the way
that I feel about elderly people recently, because you know,
in other cultures. I mean, I hate when people say
certain cultures are more family oriented than other cultures, because
to me, what culture isn't family oriented? Besides like isis?
You know what I mean? Like everyone likes their family anyway.

(09:50):
I don't know if isis is a culture, but they'd
like to be any anyway. And I realize, like when
my grandparents, like when people become kind of i don't know,
ineffectual or like they're not really participating in life the
way that you value people participating in life. I've noticed
that I don't take the elderly as seriously as I

(10:11):
want to, Like, I'm dismissive of somebody when they're out
of it, when they're old and they're out of it,
like when my dad hit a wall. And I know
your mom had a big birthday recently, eighty eight.

Speaker 4 (10:22):
Right had my stepmother's ninety one today. Oh wow, yeah,
thank you dad for leaving me her and.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
And tell me what your thoughts on that what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
So you know in Japan it's opposite, right, The older
you are, the more respected you.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
The more revered. Sorry, I have Juliana brought some Macha lemonade.
It's awful, it's not I have to gargle really sparkling water.
I'm actually going to find you for bringing that instead
of saying thank you.

Speaker 4 (10:48):
The reason I brought it was because I'm always early.
I was downstairs early at two rather than to twenty
five when I was supposed to be here. And I thought, oh,
I'll bring Chelsea something to drink. She's been in a
studio all day. And then I thought, Chelsea's so adventurous,
she's always trying new things, she's always going to different countries.
Don't get the same old same old get her. And
I said to the guy, what's a matcha lemonade? That

(11:10):
sounds bizarre, and he goes, it's really good. It's awful,
and it.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Also needs to be. I don't understand in New York
or really anywhere why they don't put more ice in drinks.
When you put a little amount of ice in drinks,
it melts faster.

Speaker 4 (11:25):
It's a natural store down there, that's why.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (11:28):
Yeah, anyway, that's a very American thing.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
Ice. I know, I know, I know. I've been traveling.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
You understand that when we're going on a romantic vacation,
Chelsea and I, and when we go to London and
you ask for ice, they put one cube.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
In the Oh. I don't worry. I'm prepared, okay, I
already ship ice, ship ice ahead. You think with all
these ice, you think with all these ice cups melting,
we'd have more fucking ice, not less of it. We
need to get that ice and use it for drinks.
My friend was going off the other day about water,
and then I was talking to somebody else this morning
about water. You know, because everyone's always shoving water or

(12:02):
down our throats, like water is so important. You have
to have water, water, water, water. And now all I
hear from doctors is it doesn't matter how much water
you drink, you will never hydrate yourself. You have to
put electrolytes in the water you have to And I'm like, okay,
but why has everyone been banging on about water for
so many years if it doesn't do anything. In fact,
if you drink too much water, it can make you dehydrated. Yeah,

(12:25):
so now I'm just gonna snort my electrolytes.

Speaker 4 (12:27):
So I put I use those doctor Nigba electrolytes with
vitamin C complex or whatever it is, and I put
a big thing in when I go work out, and
I drink that whole thing and then I'm like, I'm
good for the day. I'm sure I should have more.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
I don't think so.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
No, it's enough.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
I mean there's water and everything else we're drinking.

Speaker 4 (12:42):
Although I had a friend who was addicted to diet
coke and she's like, it's liquid waters.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Tell me about Okay, go back to the elderly conversation.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
So like in Japan, they revere their elders. The older
you are, the more respect you get. And that makes
total sense to me. In Sweden, the elderly are cared
for in this country, especially because I'm taking care of
two elderly women. My stepmother is she can't move and
she has m essay which is multiple systems atrophied. Everything
is atropheeded. So she you know, you need to feed

(13:11):
her and what. And I have her in a nursing home.
But I'm lucky because I can afford it. Insurance doesn't
pay for a nice one, you know, And I pay
for a woman to come and see her every day
because she's way up in Massachusetts and she didn't want
to move when my dad died. And I just think, like,
this country doesn't take care of their elders. All the
old people unless you are financially okay, you're screwed. And

(13:33):
the young people don't respect the elders at all.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
I know.

Speaker 1 (13:36):
It's a really I noticed that about myself and I
was like and then I was like, oh, maybe it's
my own experience with my father, because when he became
so old, he was just kind of, you know, not
really there and in a home, and so we'd go
and visit him and it was like talking to a
big brick and I was like, well, what's the point
of this, Like, what's the point of even visiting? And
my sister's like, it's matters to touch and to talk,

(13:57):
like it matters, even though he doesn't know what's going
on really like it's important for you to like give
him loving words and stuff. And I was like, oh, okay,
I didn't realize that, but I think I have to
pay more attention to the elderly.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
Also, my mom has middle stage dementia, and there are
days where it's brutal, but then there are moments where
she's really lucid, and the clarity and the little snippets
of wisdom I had to read because I would get
angry because I didn't want to see her like that.
I would be like, stop, you know, because it's your mom.
But then I decided, Okay, this is where where I

(14:29):
can't change what's happening to her brain or her age, right,
this is the natural progression of life. But what I
can change is my response to it. So one of
the things I started doing instead of saying, because she
punishes me for taking her car away, she could not
drive anywhere, And instead of me getting angry or saying, well, mom,
you would leave the car on in the garage for

(14:50):
five hours while you were home. You understand you can't
drive on, instead, I go, you know what, that must
be really hard when you're used to being independent your
whole life and having that taken away. I have such
empathy for it. And she just looked and she goes, oh,
thank you. It stopped the fighting and it stopped It
made our moments together joyful rather than tense, which they

(15:13):
were in the beginning, because it was a very difficult
transition to go from an independent woman to assisted living.
I mean, she was mortified in her lucid moments. But
I tell you, I am restructuring my brain on how
to respond even to my stepmother, who hallucinates great shit.
She I mean, I went to see her last week

(15:35):
and she said, oh, your sister is such a bitch.
My sister lives in Los Angeles. And I said, and Vicky,
my step mother can't talk on the phone because she
can't hear and she can't pick up the phone. And well,
she was sitting right there in that chair this morning
and told me I looked fat and old. And I said, oh, Vicky,
she even if she thought that, I pretty I'm pretty

(15:55):
sure she wouldn't say that to you. And also she
lives in California. Nope, I was sitting right there. And
then I said, VICKI think about it. Maybe you're projecting
how you feel about yourself and you're putting it onto her.
And she had this incredibly lucid moment. She goes, she
calls me Julie. She goes, Julie, Oh my god, you're right.
It's how I feel.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
And I just thought, like, this is great.

Speaker 4 (16:19):
This is great material for writing, this is great material
for a life lesson, Like, I'm not going to get
angry at her because she called my sister a bitch.
I know she doesn't mean it. My sister certainly isn't
a bitch. And my sister wasn't even there. This is
all in her head and it's theater. It's like I
sit there and I watch her. I mean, she told
me she was writing a book. I said, you are.

(16:39):
I'm not going to tell you the title. It's great,
you'll steal it. And I said, no, no, I'm good,
vic I'm not going to steal it, but don't tell
me if you don't want. She goes, well, hold on,
let me ask how. And I thought how was like
a nurse's aid or somebody. And she leans over sort
of with her neck, and then she looks at me.
She said, Hell says it's okay, And I go, oh,
is hell here? And she goes, of course, like I'm

(17:03):
an asshole, and I said, I'm so sorry I didn't
see him. And here's the title of the book. Now,
how can this happen? Okay, the title of the book
is Placido Domingo Sings in the Furnished Basement.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
That's so funny, man. I used to do that shit
all the time, writing books, writing books, writing books. I
wonder if that's something that comes when you're older and
you have dementia, that you think you're like whatever you
wished you were right, you become.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
She loved Placido Domingo and she was an a cheerier designer.
She likes to redo a basement, so maybe it's also
her mind realizing it has to keep itself company, you know.
So maybe she's keeping herself company. So instead of me
walking out of their feeling depressed, which is how I
used to feel all the time, or I'd look up
and be like Jesus Christ, Dad, seriously, you left me

(17:47):
this because it's a lot, and I always feel guilty
for not doing more. Instead, I like, I drive back
to the city laughing because I'm like, that was such
great entertainment and I will use it one day. For sure.
I'm going to write a book called Placido Domingos Things.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
I'll send you a copy of this book. But in
a past life, I was a ghostwriter for people who
work with Alzheimer's patients and dementia patients. And that's actually
exactly what they recommend that you do. Is rather than saying, like,
you know, if they're asking about their husband, like oh,
he died several years ago, then they go through this
whole grief stage all over again, you just say, oh,
I haven't seen him today. Change the subject. You know,

(18:28):
it's this response in a different way, just go yeah, yeah, exactly.
But I'll send you a book by Joe Huey. She
was one of the most wonderful experts that we worked
with and went through it with her own mother and
developed all these amazing strategies.

Speaker 4 (18:44):
Oh wonder, I didn't know that you did that note.
That's fascinating. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
When you said previous life, I thought you were talking
seriously about a previous life. I'm like, well, I just
pretty specific. First, are we going there?

Speaker 4 (18:57):
Passwork life?

Speaker 1 (18:58):
It's a bit much at the top of the show.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
No, thank you, But I do think it's about art.
It's about how what our responses are with anything. Obviously
it's your response to it. And the elderly need to
be respected and loved, you really do. And they're baddy
and crazy some of them, and some of them aren't.
Like some of them are completely lucid and have the
best advice to give.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Like my friend's dad just died and she was telling
me how he was. You know, they were sitting together.
Obviously that's a different situation when someone's passing, but they
were sitting together and she's like, yeah, you know, I
had to change his diapers five days in a row.
And I'm like, I don't know that I would do that.
She goes, of course you would do it, Chelsea, and
I'm like, I don't know that I would. I would
probably have somebody else do that. Like I don't think
I could handle changing my father's diaper. I don't think

(19:43):
I could either, and I wish I could, but I
don't think that that's I would be dishonest to pretend
that I think I could do.

Speaker 4 (19:49):
Although you never know until you're you know. I always
say to my husband every time after I visit my stepmother,
because my mother's living a beautiful life and she walks
and still teach us at this place, like she's living
a full life. But my stepmother's in a bed, you know,
in a nursing home and can't move. And I every
time I come home, I say to him, if I
cannot wipe my own ass, please just put a pillow
over my head and kill me. And he's very philosophical

(20:12):
about always goes. You know, you never know until you're
in their shoes. You just don't know. Maybe she actually
is enjoying her life. You know, people are doting on her,
everyone's around her. She doesn't have to lift a finger.
She certainly doesn't have to cook, clean or make her bed.
And he goes. You just don't know until you get there.
But I do believe you don't know until you're.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
There that I would clean somebody's shit up, or if
I would enjoy myself, if I would enjoy shitting my
own pants. Is that what you're saying?

Speaker 4 (20:37):
Ay, I don't think you would enjoy shitting your own pants,
but be when you're at the point of shitting your
own pants. I don't think you know.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Right, But you could be happy, as your argument.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
Or my argument is not that I would ever be
happy cleaning up someone's shit, I'd probably vomit a little bit.
But I think if you love someone, yeah, and you
get over the first few times of it, it becomes listen,
look what That's why nurse are my heroes. Yeah, they're
my heroes. Look what they do, I know, and they
do it without blinking.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
I know.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
And the smells that are in the it is.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
But you are right. I think if you do clean
up someone's shit a couple of times, it probably isn't
so traumatizing the fourth or.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
Fifth Yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
Mean, no, let's switch topics. I want to give it
okay because that was a lot of poop, yeah, and
a lot of elderly talk. But we're going to revere
our elderly, or at least I'm going to make a
bigger effort to revere my elderly. I need to get
more elderly people in my life.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
Well, you've got me.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
I know that you. You already mentioned that you've been
moonlighting by listening to Julia Louis Dreyfus's podcast, which we'll accept,
but we also I have intel that you were called
into Sarah Silverman's podcast and left a message.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
I did, I did, I was given that private friends
friend's number, and I did not use it because I
felt like it was weird. I was like, I'm just
a caller. I'm a listener. I listen and I love her.
And I just was listening to how anxious people are
about the rise of anti Semitism. It's gone up seventy

(22:13):
seven percent. I saw that in the last two years,
and it is frightening. And it's not just a Jewish problem,
it's a universal problem. And I listened to podcasts all
the time because I'm always in the kitchen by myself,
and it's like I have my friends with me. And
so I called in. I looked it up on the
computer and then I left a message and I just said,
I am hearing everybody, and I feel like I felt

(22:33):
the same way, and I took a step to do
something about it rather than complain about it. And I
feel like you can reach out into your own community
and do something. And what I decided to do was
just educate, because I think anti Semitism is ignorance. And
if we educate our children, because only nineteen out of
fifty states in our country teach about the Holocaust, so

(22:55):
we need to start educating and it's been an incredible
journey and it's true bold and size in two years
my program, and I just feel like you can reach
out into your own community and do something rather than
sit by or sit back and feel afraid. And I
had no idea how many people feel the same way,
because when I reached out to everyone, I knew to

(23:19):
tell them about this program HESP that I started with
interns teaching middle and high school students. Everyone responded, everyone donated,
whether it was one hundred dollars or thirty five thousand dollars.
It was unbelievable. And within three weeks we have two
more years set up already. Wow with ten instead of
six in terms, we have ten now, so that'll reach

(23:41):
that'll reach sixty five hundred students.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
And how did you work to conceptualize that with? I mean,
did you do that with somebody else?

Speaker 4 (23:48):
I did it with the Museum of Jewish Heritage here
in New York because I happened to know if you
ever go to any of the Jewish museums across this country,
nine out of ten times is usually me touring. Get
I give my voice to them, and I do the tours. Really,
so when you put on the little yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, Julia, and his voice is all over the world.
You never know, but you're always listening to Juliana. She
does a lot of voiceovers.

Speaker 4 (24:11):
So it's one of the things I give because I
feel so blessed to be in the position I'm in.
So whenever they ask, I'm like, yeah, of course, let me.
I'll be your the tour guide for the new exhibit.
Did you ever read that book that Jodie Picot wrote
called Small Great Things? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (24:27):
I think so.

Speaker 4 (24:28):
So remember so that so Small Great Things is Martin
Luther King said you can't do big great things, but
you can do small great things. That's where the title
came from, which is how I feel about HESP. I'm like, okay, well,
and so I called him after I did this hosting
for CBS. I didn't think i'd get paid. I mean,

(24:48):
it was, of course a labor of love. But they did.
They paid me, and I wouldn't. I was like, that's crazy,
you can't, like, let's put that money to something. So
I called Jack Kleeger and I said, I want to
start an education program. Help me. Here's the money I
made from this thing, which was more money than I
thought i'd have, so I gave him the one hundred
grand and I said, let's start an education program. So

(25:09):
he and I sat down, because they have amazing Holocaust
historians there. So this program, we do an eight day
intensive training on how to teach about the Holocaust, and
then we send our interns out to all these schools,
mostly in the outer boroughs, and they teach middle to
high school students, all age appropriate. You know, we don't

(25:31):
go lower than middle school because it's tough. The younger
children don't need to know yet, but they do need
to know in seventh and eighth grade. And then after
the one hour class, we bust them all and all
of this is free. We bust them to the museum
and so then they can see what they've just heard
about and learned.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
And are these non Jewish kids or Jewish kids?

Speaker 4 (25:52):
Also the kids were teaching, uh huh, most of them
are non Jewish. There was a little boy in the
Bronx eighth grade and this little boy said, wow, so
six million Jews died in the Holocaust? Are there any left?
He didn't know, and he's what are you in eighth grade?
Twelve thirteen years old? So it's just lack of education,
and I feel like if we teach our kids young enough,

(26:15):
when they get old enough, because part of that book,
Small Great Things, which I found quite remarkable, was to
see the white supremacist side. She goes in there and
she sees the white supremacist side, and most of the
kids who are in these families were abandoned, had alcoholic
parents who didn't give a shit about them, and the
white supremacist said, you'll have a family with us, and

(26:38):
then they grow up with the hate learning they don't know,
but that's what they're taught. But they feel the love
from these people, and that's then what they vomit out
to the world.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
And we only have fifteen million Jews left in this
whole world.

Speaker 4 (26:51):
And the survivors are dying out. So part of this program,
which we are slowly taking to the national stage, the
idea is that this is a blueprint because it is working.
And I've now partnered with the AJC American Jewish Committee,
so we're going to start with the eastern seaports, so
we're going to spread it out to Connecticut, New Jersey
down to Washington and then hopefully spread it across the

(27:12):
country in rural places in Kentucky and Oklahoma and all
the places that never teach about Honestly, it's just history itself,
and if we don't teach about it, it will repeat itself.
So the idea is never again. But I feel strongly
for the children, grandchildren and great grandchildren of Holocaust survivors.
Because the survivors are dying out, you know, there's only

(27:35):
a few left. It is now their responsibility to make
sure that memory stays alive and to spread the word
that this can never happen again, and to share the
stories that their grandparents and great grandparents told them as children.
And one of the reasons why I think my program
is working is because we bring in these hip, young
college and graduate students to teach. Right, so high school

(27:58):
students in middle school kids love a young, hip teacher.
I don't know if they're hip, but to them they are.
You know, they're young, They're not like I know. I
said the word slay you slayed it the other day
and my son, my son looked at me and goes, oh,
my god, don't ever say that word. So my hope
is to get these great grandchildren into these classrooms to

(28:20):
talk about their great grandparents to tell the story because
it's the Holocaust deniers. It's just so bizarre that they're
just denying what has been archived for eighty years. But
anyway to say when they grow up, to say no, no,
that's not true, when they start hearing all that stuff,
go no, no, no, that's not true. But also to

(28:42):
turn it into something else, which is in October it
will be the eightieth anniversary of the Great Danish Rescue.
The Danes were incredible in World War Two. They rescued
seventy five hundred Jews by themselves in boats. And we
have the boat at the museum. It's in Connecticut, Mystic
Connecticut right now. And it was children, families rescue them

(29:05):
from where, rescue them from the Nazis from where Denmark
to Sweden, oh oh, at midnight in boats, back and forth,
back and forth, back and forth. And we're doing a
great exhibit actually in October at the museum for it.
But I was saying to the board there because I
wanted this to become a bigger and bigger program. I said,
you know what, movies, the movies that are huge that

(29:28):
kids go to are all about heroes. The Danes who
rescued these Jews who called them our brothers, our Danish
brothers and sisters, you know, and we will protect you.
They were heroes. So let's make this about being a
hero standing up to evil as opposed to it becoming
too political or too religious. Kids understand a hero, they

(29:50):
love going to see Marvel movies, which is all about heroes.
Let's make this about a heroic act to stand up
to someone who's anti Semitic. So I don't know, We're trying,
and it's we're starting.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
How can our listeners learn more about HESSP, which means
at the end HESP H E s P.

Speaker 4 (30:10):
I call my interns, my hespians. If you just go
on to the Museum of Jewish Heritage dot org and
type in HESP H e SP or the hes program,
you go right to it.

Speaker 1 (30:23):
Yeah, Sarah Silverman is going to be very interested in this.
Does she know about it?

Speaker 4 (30:26):
She's amazing. And can I just say, of all my
Hollywood friends like you and Sarah, when I sent out
that email, not only responded right away, but donated right away.
And I have to tell you I was really touched.
That was really touching because not a lot of Hollywood
has responded.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
Oh, that's really disappointing.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
Really disappointing. But you guys did and and all my
you know, I mean every parent at my kid's school
and friends and family, but you guys like were the
first ones to donate.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
Did you watch Sarah's new special?

Speaker 4 (30:59):
I haven't seen it. You have to stay in her.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
New specials on HBO. Everybody needs to watch there as
a new special. It's fucking so smart. You know what's
so great about I was at her house to watch
it because she didn't want to watch it. I was like,
we're watching it with a group of people, like, this
is your special. She hasn't had one in five years.
So we went over there and a bunch of people
came over and we sat there. And what's so special
about Sarah is she's never talking about herself. Yeah, she's

(31:23):
writing jokes like old school comedians, like some people. There's
some people out there that do that, like Tig and
zach Alifanakis and a couple of others. But most of
us are just telling our stories, and Sarah is just
writing jokes that are silly and brilliant at the same time.
You know, she can make a fart joke brilliant she's
so good.

Speaker 4 (31:43):
Did she come to New York already with her show?
I missed it? How did I miss that? Did she come?

Speaker 1 (31:47):
She came to New York? She doesn't. She doesn't tour
like I know. She very often, she hates it. She's
a home She and I couldn't be any more different.

Speaker 4 (31:56):
I know. But do you know what I love about you? Guys?
The two of you are so supportive of other comedian
because I always see it in the comedian world. You
all support each other, and so many times I feel
like actors tear each other down. Sarah talks about you
on her podcast all the time.

Speaker 5 (32:11):
You know that, don't know?

Speaker 1 (32:12):
No, I didn't know that.

Speaker 4 (32:14):
Oh that's so cute. Oh no, she does. She talks
about you. I get so excited. I don't know why.
I feel like the proud mom. I'm like, yeah, my
girls love each other. But she does. She talks about
you in a beautiful way, and she's just like she's
so fucking look because people will call in with, you know,
saying like I really want to be a comedian and
I bet no da, And she's she's like, just you
gotta just go do it. Look at my friend Chelsea

(32:36):
she fucking she's just on the road. I'm not like that.
I can't do that, Chelsea. Just the two of you
support each other. I love it.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
So I once said to her, we're on this app,
you know, this video app were we're always talking, and
I said to her, I mean, we couldn't be more different.
Like I love adventure, I love to go out. She
wants she's a come over and we'll go for a hike.
I'm like, I don't, Sarah, I hate hiking. Like I
don't want a hike. I'm like, I'll come for the
joint and the pool after skipped the hike part. But

(33:04):
we've gotten to a place in our friendship where we
both well, we've always been at this place kind of
ever since we became friends, where we know each other
and we know we have very little in common, but
we managed to have a friendship. You know what I mean,
We don't we're so dissimilar.

Speaker 4 (33:19):
But anyway, tian Yang, though, sometimes that really works.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
I know that does work. It works for me always. Anyway,
we need to take a quick break and we'll be
right back, and we're back.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
We're back. I have an update from Juliana's last appearance.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
With us, So what's happening already?

Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yes, this was from one of our last episodes with
you had a title that was about red Flags. This
is our Red Flags girl, so Renee says, Hi, Chelsea
and Catherine and Juliana, here's an update on the red
Flags saga. The day I listened to the episode, I
had a calm chat with my partner about my concerns

(33:59):
and need for change. I told him I was ready
to walk away if he felt he didn't want to
improve as an individual and a partner. He said he'd
go to a counselor with no hesitations. Within a week,
we were lucky enough to get in with a recommended counselor.
He speaks openly and honestly, and even showed vulnerability. I'm
so proud of him. We've been four times and I

(34:19):
feel like this has already changed the dynamics of our relationship.
We've gained a different perspective of each other's history, learned
more about ourselves, and have become more nurturing regarding each
other's needs. We're completely honest with each other no matter
how sensitive the topic is. Calmly discuss our thoughts and
feelings while supporting one another. I feel more secure now
than I've ever been, and this has given my partner

(34:41):
the opportunity to show me how much I mean to him.
The man's heart is like an onion, so many layers,
but the counselor and I are slowly learning how he
tries to hide his strong emotions. Turns out he thinks
and feels a whole lot more than he's letting on.
Thankscals for giving me the kick up the ass I needed.
I feel at peace in my relationship now and in
our future together. Today we celebrate five years together and

(35:03):
one hundred days until we leave for our big trip.
Habby Travels and keep your ears peeled for the Aussie
accent in Majorca. Next year it could be us with love, Renee.

Speaker 4 (35:13):
Got you know this is going to tie into your
episode with a Lease Lonan and her book which I'm
reading right now. It's really heavy duty. It also ties
into a book I read when I found out I
was having a boy, because I'm only like no girls,
so I didn't understand, like, how am I going to
raise a boy to be a human, empathetic, feeling person
with a pinis? And this book that I read called

(35:35):
Raising Caine was by these two psychologists who deal with
difficult teenage kids, and they said, you know, children, boys
at a very young age are taught not to cry
be a man. They're three and they're on the playground
and they're kids, and they're immediately taught to hide their feelings.
And I think, and that's what Elise was talking about,

(35:56):
and she talks about it in her book, how men
grow up to be afraid of their feelings because they
were taught that from a very young age. Your boy,
don't cry. It's such bullshit where girls when they cry
are hugged. So we grow up and we're emotional, you know,
like it can be these emotional rollercoasters. But men swallow, swallow,
swallow until they implode, and so it takes therapy. I'm

(36:20):
so happy to hear that that she got well. She
didn't seem to get him into therapy. He did it willingly.
It's probably a relief for him, right.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Remind me what those red flags were.

Speaker 2 (36:30):
They'd been together a few years, but he'd like randomly
broken up with her out of the blue a couple
of times in there, and they were trying to make
plans for their future.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
I remember this yeah, they were going to go hiking
or something.

Speaker 2 (36:43):
Right, They were going on like a mountain climbing trip
around the world for like a year, and he was
like keeping secrets from her. She felt really fishy about it,
and we were like, these are huge red flags. Try therapy,
but it's probably over with and sounds like he's unburdening
himself and getting in touch with his emotions.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
There are so many men in my life that I
wish we're just you know, so many of my friends'
husbands or it's so nice when a man is self
actualized and self aware and is interested in doing the
work on themselves. Who isn't like I can't do that.
I can't, I don't want to go to therapy. So
many men are like that. It's like it's so old

(37:23):
fashioned at this point.

Speaker 4 (37:24):
I think it's because they're just afraid.

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah, they don't want to face that.

Speaker 4 (37:27):
And also I think, you know, changing your habits is
so difficult, and when you have grown up a certain
way and lived a certain kind of life, it's very
scary to have to undo that. Yes, and that's what
therapy does. Always say to my husband, I'm like, oh, so,
how is so and so with their new girlfriend and
he's like, I don't. We don't talk about that. It's like,

(37:47):
how do you not talk about that? Like it would
be the we mean my girlfriends, that's what we talk
about all the time, Like I ask, and you know,
but they don't communicate the same way women do. It's
just a different way.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
I was out with a gay guy friend the other
night for and he was talking to me about it.
He's going through a difficult time and he's like, I
went to therapy. He's like, I don't like it. I
don't like it. And I said, well, I know. I
bet you don't because a lot of stuff comes up.
But it's necessary work because otherwise it will tap you
on the shoulder when you least expect it and it's
going to take you down. There is no way to
escape it, right, like your trauma, whatever it is, you

(38:18):
have to discuss it because you can't get away from it.
And I said, if you can't go to the therapist,
at least pursue keep pursuing it until you find somebody.
And he said, I gotta be honest. All of this
talk just makes me uncomfortable, like I don't want to
talk about it, and he revealed to me that he
had been molested when he was younger. So it's such

(38:38):
a deep programming. It's run so deep.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
Anyway, on that note, our first caller, I thought would
be a good question for Juliana, since you're a New
Yorker and you are familiar with what life is like
when you're all living on top of each other in
a big city.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
So beautiful and the beautiful sunny New York smoke Felts
smoke free smoke sky day, Well Canada, I mean.

Speaker 5 (39:02):
I know.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Chelsea sent me a picture. It looks like the apocalypse.
Stephanie says, Dear Chelsea, My husband and I bought a
condo a few years ago, and our building has four units,
so pretty small. All the neighbors were fine when we
first moved in, but a few years ago, the daughter
of someone who lives in a nearby unit, not the
person who owns the unit lives there, but his daughter

(39:23):
got to move in for free with her husband, and
the husband is awful. She goes on to talk about
how the husband moved her laundry one time and it
escalated into a screaming match and he told her to
go fuck herself. He screams at his wife on a
regular basis, but she hasn't called the police. She says,
living next to the sky gives me extreme anxiety, and
I absolutely hate it. My husband wants to confront him,

(39:46):
but I don't think that would end well for him
or us. There's other stuff about how he's complained about
their dog, even though his dogs bark all the time.
He's complained about another neighbor who has a daycare, but
it's not very loud. So she says, my question is
what should we do about this asshole? And Stephanie is
here with us.

Speaker 4 (40:04):
Oh, hi, Stephanie, Hi, Stephanie.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
I'm sorry that you're dealing with all of that. What
a nightmare.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yeah, it's not exactly ideal, especially since we had a
baby seven months ago, so to be bring that on
top of having a baby.

Speaker 4 (40:23):
Can I ask you something? Are you are the walls thin?
Can you hear him? Can you you can? Oh?

Speaker 3 (40:30):
I don't want to hear him, but like I can't
help it?

Speaker 4 (40:33):
Yeah, God, yeah, this is I mean, this is New York.
This is the you know the big problem with New York.
I think you're right you and your husband not to
say anything because it sounds like he's a little unhinged,
and I think you need to be careful. But you know,
I have this motto I live by, which is kill
him with kindness. What if you go out and buy

(40:55):
some cookies and leave them with a note hope your
day gets better every day? Maybe just keep leaving sweet
things and kill him with kindness.

Speaker 3 (41:04):
During my resting bitch face, because.

Speaker 4 (41:07):
Because it's just going to make you more and more angry,
and it's gonna make him more. It looks like he's
looking for a fight. Yeah, yeah, if he's screaming, I
didn't quite understand the laundry thing. He moved moved your
laundry and screamed at you what happened with the laundry?

Speaker 3 (41:22):
He so, we have one washer and one dryer, and
he accused me of stopping his dryer so that his
clothes were like soaking wet, which is I wouldn't even
think nobody.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Would he by the way, nobody fucking would.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
I had this like dumb look on my face as
he's yelling and screaming at me, and I think that
pissed him off even more. But I genuinely like had
no idea what the hell he was talking.

Speaker 4 (41:49):
About, Yeah, it sounds like he's rearin for a fight,
and I think the best way to quash that is
to not give him one.

Speaker 5 (41:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
I think that is actually very very advice, none that
I would ever give you. And I am on Juliana's
team right now. I think that's great because people like
that you're right there and they're so unhinged that they
have a whole narrative going in their mind about what
they think is happening. And if you just keep showing
like at some point, the levee has to break with

(42:17):
kindness because you can't argue by yourself.

Speaker 4 (42:20):
It's so true. And I just know this from being
you know, I'm an actress and I'm very passionate about things,
and sometimes I like a good argument. And I married
a guy who does not like to fight. Ever, and
I realize I'll say, you know what, blah blah blah blah,
and he goes, oh, I hear you, honey, I hear you.
That will never happen again. I have nowhere to go.

(42:43):
It's over, you know what I mean. And of course
we've been together seventeen years, so now I'm so appreciative
of it because it's such a better state of mind
to be in. It's like, oh, I don't need to
keep this going. We can just have a peaceful, lovely day.
So I have learned from that not giving ammunition gives

(43:04):
them nowhere to go. And eventually he's going to realize
that he can't. He sounds like an angry guy if
he's yelling at his wife too, you hear that or
girlfriend whatever, Yeah, but it sounds like he's looking for
a fight, and so if he can't take it out
on her, he's going to take it out on you
or your husband or whatever. But just smile, you know,

(43:25):
and if he says, oh, your dog was barking, you
just be like, oh, I heard yours barking too. I know,
crazy New York, right. You know, kill him with kindness,
because also it'll make you feel better. Like my objective
here is I want you to feel better. I don't
really care about him. Yeah, it'll make you feel better,
and you're just taking the high road, and he's not

(43:47):
going to know what to do with himself.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Yeah. One of my girlfriends says, you know, if somebody
is like that, they're yelling at you and there's nothing
to do about it. You just say okay, well what else?
And you just whatever they yell at you say okay,
what else? And eventually one, yes, one's a good one.

Speaker 1 (44:02):
I like this all the advice. I love this. I
love this, but more importantly what Juliana said, how it's
going to make you feel better, Like I decided a
couple of years ago, and I have reminders too, like
whenever something is not going my way or not the
way I want it to go, I just have to
overcome it with my attitude to have a positive attitude.

(44:24):
And when you do that, it is infectious to other people.
People feel your vibe and they pick up on it.
And it's obviously not going to happen right away, but
it's gonna make your mental state so much more, like
at a higher frequency, instead of letting him drag you down,
you're pulling him up, you know what I mean by that?
And also everybody in your building by looking at it
and going at it from Juliana's angle, is kind of genius.

(44:47):
It's kind of the best way to treat him because
he's a child.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
Yes, that's when he confronted me about the laundry thing
and was screaming at me and he was screaming at me,
but like walking away with his back face to me,
and I told him to grow up because he looked
like a toddler having a temper tangent, and he told
me to go back myself.

Speaker 4 (45:08):
So she didn't like that, You know it? Oh God.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
It's also you know that feeling you get when this
happened to me. Recently, I talked about my plane ride
where I had to confront these two racists. But you
know that feeling you get in your heart where you're
arguing with a stranger like you can't That is the
most unpleasant feeling, and you want to get to the
opposite of what that feeling is.

Speaker 4 (45:29):
It's also unpredictable, Like it's one thing to argue with
a friend or a boyfriend or a husband because you
know them, yes, but when it's a stranger, you actually
don't know how they're going to react. And the state
of our world right now. I always say to my kid,
not that he's a chill kid, but I'm always like,
you never know who has a gun? Just walk away? Yeah,
you know road rage? When people have road rage. I'm

(45:51):
always like, so, what is this going to get me?
If I flip the finger a bullet in my head.
Maybe I just don't want to deal. It's not worth
it. It's just not worth it. Kill him with kindness. Maybe
that'll spread on who knows.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
I bet you it will. I bet you you'll infect him,
You'll infect his family. Like if you just hit it
up and be consistent about it. I know it's not
your responsibility, but why not, you know, why not just
be why not take this on as an experiment, you know,
for human behavior.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
And you may need to practice some breathing when you
when you want to scream and he's or you hear him.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
Well, like, I'm actually I'm a chill person, So I
would rather kill him with kind like that's actually more
my alley. It's not like me to like be a
bit and ignore people like.

Speaker 4 (46:38):
That, But Bacon Brown, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
What else to do. I'm also really shy, so the
ignoring him is also easier.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
But yeah, yeah, I think there's some people in life
who just wake up in the morning looking for a fight,
and those are toxic people. You don't need that. And
he's already too close to you, guys in the apartment
next door, so put the distance and draw your circle, right,
that Buddhist thing. Here's my circle. You can't come in it.

(47:06):
I'm hearing my boundary.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Up and here are your cookies.

Speaker 4 (47:08):
And here are your cookies.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
This is my circle, and here are your cookies there
outside of my fucking circle. Now eat one and shut up, asshole.

Speaker 4 (47:17):
Oh my god, good luck.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Bye bye. Well, I'm retiring and you're gonna take over.
Because I was just sitting there watching you, falling more
in love with you. I was like, oh, Juliana, I
would never even been thought of that.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
I was like, who's gonna deal with this? Asshole? Am
I gonna have to go down there?

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Well?

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Our next caller has I think a very interesting issue.
Her name is Rita Dear Chelsea. I'm a thirty three
year old married mother of two. I've always been an
incredibly independent and self sufficient person. I worked my ass
off to buy my first house at age twenty three,
and since then worked to continue to build my career

(48:03):
and succeed financially while also doing ninety percent of the
childcare and household tasks. From a young age, I knew
I had no interest in getting married. I thought if
I ever did decide I wanted kids, I would adopt
on my own or use a sperm donor. However, I
was twenty five when I met my now husband and
got swept up in love and societal norms and happily
married him and completely ignored everything I'd previously known to

(48:26):
be true about myself. Now I'm in this marriage with
a man who is emotionally unavailable, and I feel completely alone.
I look at my kids and my life, and I
know without a doubt that I could do it all
without him. But what do I do? I think I'd
be happier alone, But how do I know that isn't
just the grass is always greener mentality. I hate that
I hold most of the work and responsibility, but then

(48:49):
have to answer to a man for everything I do.
Do I blow up my whole life and my kids'
lives for the selfish reason that I just no longer
want to deal with a man. I keep daydreaming about
taking my kids and leaving everything behind. Please help kindly, Rita.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Wo hi Rida, oh read us in her car Ritas
we have Juliana Marguleay's is our guest today.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
Here for you, Hi Rita.

Speaker 5 (49:13):
Oh wow, so nice to meet you guys.

Speaker 4 (49:15):
Hi, Hi, Hi?

Speaker 2 (49:18):
Are you pulled over? Are you stabbed somewhere?

Speaker 5 (49:20):
I am Catherine Notes, I'm always driving.

Speaker 4 (49:23):
What do you do? What is your career?

Speaker 5 (49:25):
I'm a therapist?

Speaker 4 (49:27):
You're yeah, Chelse, you want to take this one? I
mean I have a million.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Let's talk about your relationship first. Have you ever suggested
going to therapy? Is he completely I gets that? Or
is he open to that?

Speaker 5 (49:37):
I have suggested it. He wanted to go on his own,
so that was fine, but then he went one time
and then wouldn't go back. Kind of said like he
thought one time was enough and then he's done with it.

Speaker 4 (49:52):
People hate sitting in I know, I know.

Speaker 5 (49:57):
And he won't talk to me, so I think that's
that was the reason I suggested it. And he won't
connect or discuss things with me, So I thought, okay,
well you need to talk to somebody.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
And have you expressed how you feel to him as
well as you can?

Speaker 5 (50:12):
Yeah? I think the challenge is, you know, we just
have the same conversation over and over and over again,
and then we never get anywhere.

Speaker 4 (50:21):
Okay, how many children do you have?

Speaker 5 (50:23):
Two? Two?

Speaker 4 (50:24):
And how old are they?

Speaker 5 (50:25):
Two? And five?

Speaker 4 (50:26):
Oh? Boy? Can I ask you this, have you fallen
out of love with him?

Speaker 5 (50:31):
I think I've fallen out of like I don't really
like him as a person right now, but love him
as a husband and a father. If that makes sense.

Speaker 4 (50:41):
Yeah, that's actually I think it's very clear. I mean,
I think it's really hard not to like the person
you're married to, harder than not loving them. Honestly, It's
so interesting because we're multitaskers. Women are just naturally multitaskers.
You know, we know how to do things and get
things done, you know. They what's the saying give a

(51:01):
busy woman a task and will get done? Is that
the saying something like that? Right, give a busy woman,
it's pretty Ask a busy woman a favor and it'll
get done because they know how to schedule it. Like
women are like, oh and then I have to do
that and that and that. Like women are very we're
multitaskers by nature. But I would never because your children

(51:22):
are so young, I would never say just get up
and go. But I also would never say stay in
something where you're going to resent your children ultimately because
you stayed there for them, right, your children will end
up hating you for the fact that you stayed in
a loveless marriage. But from what you're saying, there's love there.
But I think have you ever said to him, honey,

(51:43):
I'm at a place where I'm thinking of getting up
and going. The only thing that will work here is honesty. No,
I haven't see his reaction. Maybe he doesn't know how
bad it is. It sounds like he doesn't.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
They don't know how bad it is until it's too late.
That's what happens in all these marriages. The men do
not want to see they don't want to face it.
And of course it's so funny that you said that.
My girlfriend went to therapy once and she's like, yeah,
the therapist told us we didn't need to come back.
I go, oh, really, is that what she said? You
fucking lit her like that is that is? She's like, yeah,
she didn't think we needed to see her again. I'm like,

(52:15):
oh my god. Talk about not wanting to face your issues.
But let's talk about it in a more practical sense.
Are you abled financially? If you were to decide to
leave right there are some steps to take before. Obviously
you you do get up and leave, But if you
wanted to leave, what would that look like.

Speaker 5 (52:31):
Oh gosh, I mean financially, I think it would be fine. Family,
it would, I said this to Catherine, like it would
kind of just blow everything up. Our families are all
very close around us. We see them all the time.
It's we depend on like family for different things. And
that's kind of my conundrum. It's like everything else in
my life is great except for him. So do you

(52:54):
blow up everything for that?

Speaker 4 (52:57):
Not yet. You can't blow it all up yet because
you haven't tried. First. You haven't been fair to him
by telling him you're at the end here until he
knows exactly what's going on. So you're making up your
own narrative and he's making up his own narrative, but
you're not on the same page. And until you sit

(53:17):
down with him and say, honey, I love you, but
you need to know what I'm feeling. I'm feeling like
grabbing these kids and getting the fuck out of here
because I feel very alone. I don't want to do that,
but I'm letting you know. If this continues and we
don't start talking and communicating and you start helping and

(53:38):
we go to therapy together to discuss this, I'm gone.
They understand that, but he doesn't know you're thinking of
what you're thinking. He has no idea.

Speaker 1 (53:47):
And also the key sentence is to make sure you
impress upon him how alone you feel, because you shouldn't
feel alone. You know you're in a marriage. What's the
point of being in a marriage if you feel that way?
So there are you do have to have a conversation
with him. But on a more practical level, I just
want to say a couple of things about like you

(54:07):
blowing up your family, You're not blowing up your family.
You have to take care of yourself for the sake
of your children. You need to be healthy, you need
to be happy, and you need to be fulfilled to
raise healthy, happy children. That's what is the most important thing.
And worrying about what everybody else is the impact and
the ripple effect that it's going to have on everyone else.
When you're just protecting yourself, it's not like you're abusing

(54:30):
someone or doing drugs or you're an addict, you know,
and you're blowing something up. You're blowing something up in
your mind because you're going to be taking care of yourself.
That's not blowing everything up. People adjust and acclimate to
things all day long. People are dealing with new situations
in family dynamics every single day.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
And kids are resilient.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Yes, And all these people who I stay together for
the children, I stay together for the children. And your
child's going to grow up and get in the same
dynamic that you were in that you modeled for them.
So financially, if you're capable, you're free, you know what
I mean. Like so many people don't have that. They
don't have the financial freedom to leave. So I'm not
saying to just get up and walk out the door. Yes,

(55:10):
you should have a conversation with him. There needs to
be more of a commitment than one therapy session. You
have to go to couple's therapy, and if he has
to go on his own, he has to go on
his own, And if he's not willing.

Speaker 4 (55:21):
To do that, then you go to the next step.
Then you can leave, and then you can leave feeling
good about your decision.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
And you should leave at that point.

Speaker 4 (55:28):
Yeah, but I think you're sort of throwing the baby
out with the bathwater because you're not. He's not on
the same page as you. Yet. Once he knows, you
owe it to yourself to tell him how you're feeling.
You know what, you have nothing to lose because you're
already out the door, right, you have one foot out
the door. You're already thinking of the consequences of what's
going to happen when you leave, and he doesn't even

(55:50):
know you're thinking of leaving, So you have nothing to
lose by saying I need to talk to you. You
and I get a babysitter, go out to dinner so
no one can raise their voices in the restaurant.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Hmmm, oh god, you're full of it today. I love it.
Got such a good stuff going.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
But it does help, you know, because you have the
boundaries of a restaurant, right, and be empathetic to him. Listen,
men are limited. I'm not saying let him get away
with anything. I'm saying, talk to him as if he
knows absolutely nothing, and say I've never been lonelier in
my life. I don't know if you've noticed. I cannot

(56:30):
bear feeling like ninety percent of the responsibilities of this
family and our livelihood is on me. I am fine
to leave this marriage and go out on my own.
I'll be fine, I'll take care of the kids. Fine,
But if you want me and the kids in your life.
You need to know what's going on. Then if he
is just such a douchebag that he doesn't even respond

(56:51):
to that, or or thinks it's going to go away,
and you need to say that to him, you can
say this isn't going away by the conversation ending. I
often think in relationships they're like, oh, yeah, hurt, I
sat through it. I nodded my head, and now we're fine. No,
this isn't going away. We need to work on it
tomorrow and the day after tomorrow. And then if it

(57:13):
doesn't work, you wipe off your hands and you go,
I gave it my all. And you look at your children.
You have boys girls, a boy.

Speaker 5 (57:20):
And a girl, A boy and a girl.

Speaker 4 (57:22):
What a great example to set for your children to say,
mommy wasn't happy. It wasn't working. Daddy, he's not happy either.
How can he be happy if he's with someone who's
never felt lonelier And you've got to be def dumb
and blind not to take that in.

Speaker 1 (57:39):
I don't think a lot of people are expecting to
be happy. Quite frankly. They think life is like going
to work, coming home, drinking a beer, going to sleep.
You know, like they're not engaged in their life and
you seem like somebody who is, so like, you can't
give that gift away, you know what I mean, and
just throw it, throw it away and not live your life.
You have the potential to be in love in the

(58:01):
way that you want to be in love with a man,
and he just has to be aware of that. And
you know, sometimes people don't react in the moment, but
once they have a couple of days to think about it,
there is a different reaction. So I like, I would
be very vehement about starting therapy, figuring out, like finding
a therapist that you guys can go start talking to
and say like, that's the only way I'm willing to stay.

(58:21):
I think we have a lot to uncover and work
together if you want to save this marriage. And if
you don't, also, that's okay, right, no problem, Like, yes,
this is going to be disruptive, but if you don't,
I can't. I'm not going to make you do anything.

Speaker 4 (58:37):
And you can say I don't like you right now,
I don't like you. I love you, But why am
I not liking you? Why have you become complacent in
our life? I'm not saying we should all live in
some fluffy cloud where every day is like, oh it's
a blessing because it's hard and raising two children is
hard and working every day it's hard. But if you

(58:57):
don't have the other side of that, which is fine
and then laughter and enjoyment and great sex and you know,
then why stay in it?

Speaker 5 (59:05):
Yeah? I think you guys are bang on. Like I
think he doesn't think that happiness is important, Like he
kind of thinks like, oh, yeah, this is life, Like
this is the daily slug and like you just do
it and it doesn't matter if we're friends or we
have fun together, we laugh together. It's just like this
is we just have to get through it and there
maybe there will be better times ahead kind of thing.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
That's really depressing.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Yeah, that is depressing, But I think you're right. I
think a lot of people feel that way. It's just
a grind and they're just getting from one point. I
heard a couple the other day saying as soon as
they have a two and a four year old, and
they're like, as soon as they grow up, then we're
free again. I'm like, you're saying that when they're two,
and why do you even have fucking children? Right, you know,
free again. You're never going to be free from your children,

(59:48):
first of all.

Speaker 4 (59:49):
So also there's just saying that my husband and I
say to each other all the time.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Give a woman in an errand and she got no.

Speaker 4 (59:57):
Which is happy parents', happy baby. And I really strongly
believe that. And when we had our kid, we made
sure one night a week the two of us had
dinner together, no matter what, no matter what. I mean,
I was like hunched over from a c section, and
I was determined to have that date. I was like,
We're gonna go and have dinner just the two of

(01:00:18):
us and go away on little trips whenever we could,
when we could get his parents to come and stay
with the kid, Like you need to celebrate you because
when those kids see happy parents, they feel secure and
safe and happy. Believe me, they feel what you're feeling.
They might not show it, it seeps in and they
feel the tension in the marriage. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:00:37):
I think I almost like avoidant of date nights now
because they're so uncomfortable and like we have nothing to
talk about and it's not like a fun night out.

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
Maybe start there, Yeah, say to him, when was the
last time you took me out to dinner. When was
the last time you and I decided to go see
a movie and hold hands? Start with the little things.
You can't do it all in one day, but you've
got to give it a chance, and then to see
to make sure you have nothing to feel guilty about. Nothing.

(01:01:11):
You are obviously a successful, independent woman. That is awesome.
He should worship you. But with that also makes a
lot of men. I you know, I don't mean to
sound like I'm man bashing, but a lot of men
are insecure when they are with an independent, strong woman.

Speaker 5 (01:01:30):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:01:30):
Wait, wait till you get to fifty, sister, you're going
to be like, No, don't like that. Don't like that.
Like the older you get, the more sure of yourself
you are, you know. But I do believe that if
you are true to yourself, you need to be true
to him first so that you can live your truth
and know that you did the right thing. And he
might surprise you. You never know, and he might not,

(01:01:52):
but you may as well find out.

Speaker 1 (01:01:55):
Yeah, and I think you should just change that framework
that you have in your mind blowing up your family,
blowing up your family, change that to saving your family.
You're saving your kids from a life of that and
a cycle. You know, we don't see what we're doing
in our lives, but there's intergenerational trauma for a reason,
like your kids will perpetuate that most likely, not that

(01:02:16):
it's like a cycle of abuse, but it's a cycle
of unhappiness. Why be unhappy? There's you know, we're only
here for a short time. You got to get after it, girl,
Like you need to get after it. So get after
your marriage and see what you can do there. And
if you can't figure it out, then you have to
get after it on your own.

Speaker 4 (01:02:32):
Live your life. Also, you don't know what your family
around you is thinking. Either you don't know, you may leave,
and then your mom's like, oh thank god, honey, I
couldn't say anything because you were you never know, you know,
don't make it. So don't you think other people are
judging or saying anything. You don't live in their heads.
You live in your head, and your head's the only
one you need to worry about.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
Like, can I ask you a question? And this is
mostly just for our listeners, because I'm sure a lot
of people are like, oh, sounds like me, what is
your life like? When he gets home for work, or
when you get home from work at night, Like what
is the communication?

Speaker 5 (01:03:03):
Like, there's zero communication, Like if we even say like
hello to each other, that would be a special day.
And it's mostly because like the kids are just on
top of me all the time, Like they just pick
me over him every single time, and so I can't,
like I can't speak to him or have a conversation.
So then like we kind of just go our separate

(01:03:24):
ways and I deal with the kids and he does whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
What does he do?

Speaker 5 (01:03:28):
Well, he does work a lot, so he often doesn't
come home for dinner or bedtime. So if he's there,
then he would like kind of hang around and have
dinner with us or read the newspaper or whatever. But
if he's not there, then I just go through the routine.

Speaker 4 (01:03:42):
Is he an old man.

Speaker 5 (01:03:46):
At heart?

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
Yeah? At heart.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
You don't think he's having an affair though, do you.

Speaker 5 (01:03:52):
I don't. I think there's potential, but it's almost it's
it's kind of sad because I almost have had these before,
Like oh if he did, I wouldn't care because I'm
just like that disconnected.

Speaker 4 (01:04:05):
I've been there. I've been there. I remember I was
with this guy I had fantasies of coming home and
catching him in bed with another woman so I could leave.
But that's because I was too scared to leave. You know,
you need to confront him with the truth. The truth ultimately,
will say, I know, but it will set you free.

Speaker 1 (01:04:25):
Well done. If you give a busy woman an errand
she'll get it done, and then the truth will also
set you free. Okay, did everybody hear that? You can
read more about Juliana's dysfunctional relationship in Sunshine Girl, where
she really talked about it.

Speaker 4 (01:04:39):
Talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
After I read that book, I had to find out
who the X was, so I looked it up right away.
But anyway, to you, you are full of life. Yeah
you are, Vibrett, you know what I mean, it's just
your fate.

Speaker 4 (01:04:48):
You're like you are. She's like, yeah, you want to
go live life. You're the best to do. Can I
ask how many years you've lived? How old do you?

Speaker 5 (01:04:57):
Thirty three?

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
I mean you are like, yeah, You've got a whole
other section ahead of you, a few sections actually.

Speaker 4 (01:05:05):
And you shouldn't waste it for a minute on not
celebrating who you are and showing your kids that, Like,
I just truly believe that you owe it to yourself
and your children to be happy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Have you confided to any of your family members?

Speaker 5 (01:05:20):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
No, nothing?

Speaker 4 (01:05:21):
Well, now do any of them listen to your child?

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
That's why she used an alias. Oh okay, and we
won't be using her image. Yeah, that's okay.

Speaker 4 (01:05:31):
Talk to him first. Have you talked to any of
your friends about it or people who know who he is?

Speaker 5 (01:05:36):
Just like little things, but not to the full extent.

Speaker 4 (01:05:40):
But that's why you feel so lonely, honey, I know. Yeah,
you're not sharing it, that's why you're feeling so lonely.

Speaker 5 (01:05:47):
But I also you know, if you are going to
stay with the person, you don't want everyone around you
to hate them either.

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
No, but everybody has problems in their marriages, you know,
it's not like people. Everyone has to have a confidant,
and it's going to be it's going to lighten the
load for you as well, getting it off your chest,
so to speak. You want to confide in people. People
are there for you that you don't realize a lot
of us want to like carry the burdens all by ourselves,
and that's just not fair. You know, when you you

(01:06:15):
need somebody to lean on, I guarantee you there's plenty
of people that would welcome that in your life. So
open that channel too.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
You don't have to sit there alone with it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
Talk about how much you know how terrible he is.
It's just that you feel alone and your marriage is
definitely in a rut. You're not even communicating. He must
feel that way, and I think you should tell him. Listen,
even if you were having an affair, I'm not sure
that I would care at this point.

Speaker 4 (01:06:39):
That's a great point. Yeah, tell him that. See how
that makes him feel.

Speaker 5 (01:06:44):
Yeah, I will.

Speaker 4 (01:06:45):
You need to talk to him, and then you need
to go and live your life on your terms. But
you're not alone. Go talk to you must have girlfriends.
You're so lovely. Go talk to your girlfriends.

Speaker 5 (01:06:54):
I do have girlfriends.

Speaker 4 (01:06:55):
Talk to them because it helps to get perspective for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:06:58):
For sure. Don't carry it alone. And then check in
with us, okay in a few months, and let us
we know what you're doing. If you guys got into therapy,
if you're planning on leaving, what your plan is. But
know that financial freedom is probably the most important ingredient
in this equation, you know, because that means that you
can leave if you want, and a lot of people
don't have that privilege.

Speaker 5 (01:07:18):
Okay, thank you guys so much. It was so nice
speaking with.

Speaker 4 (01:07:21):
Oh, it was a pleasure. Good luck, Yeah, good luck.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
You can do this.

Speaker 4 (01:07:24):
You've got this, go do it.

Speaker 5 (01:07:26):
Thank you, brave.

Speaker 4 (01:07:27):
You got it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Good Luye Bye, bye, thanks girls.

Speaker 5 (01:07:32):
Bye.

Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Okay, we're going to take a quick break and then
we're going to come back and wrap up with Juliana
Margy Lee's.

Speaker 4 (01:07:41):
Oh, there's nothing worse than feeling alone in a relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:07:45):
I know my friend said this the other day. She
was saying, well, she said it pretty publicly. I heard
Gwynneth say on Gwyneth Paltrow was talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:07:54):
Well, I mean, you don't need the Pealtrow, but go on, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
Call her daddy this Alexandra Cooper podcast, and she was
saying how she felt very alone in her marriage to
Chris Martin, and I thought, how sad. You know, how
sad to feel alone in a marriage? You know, you
grow up. We are fed all of this bullshit. I mean,
you have a very healthy marriage. You're one of my
girlfriends that is in a normal, healthy relationship, and you

(01:08:21):
want to spend your birthday with him, So there you go.
But you grow up being fed this idea that we're
going to meet Prince Charming and that we're gonna fall
madly in love and all of these things, and we're
gonna have kids and that's gonna just be one big
rainbow after another. And it's like, well, that's ridiculous, and
I don't know why we're being spoon fed that. It's
just not realistic at all, and it doesn't take into

(01:08:43):
account life, right.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
And it was interesting because when she was talking about
in her letter, when she was like, I never wanted kids,
I never wanted a husband. I'm independent, I'm you know,
she's a career woman. She's got and then she fell
in love, right, and in those love like when you're
all in love and then the babies come, and then
the fucking hard work comes and the sleepless nights and
the exhaustion. Not to put people off, but the truth

(01:09:05):
is it's not easy. It's just not it's easier. You know,
I got married at forty, I got pregnant at forty.
I suggest everybody do that because I had lived and learned.
The reason I'm in a good marriage is because I
was in terrible relationships for years and I vowed rather
be alone than be with an asshole, And by the

(01:09:27):
time I met my husband, I was like, I don't
do this. I don't do that. Not to say I'm
not flexible, but.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
You also make better decisions as you get older because
of our experience. So the longer you can prolong getting
married or having a child, the better.

Speaker 4 (01:09:41):
But I do think the biggest issue, and this is
something that happens I think with much younger. You know,
she's thirty three and she's worried about the families, what
the outside families are going to think. When you get
to my age, you don't give a fuck exactly, Like
you're not You're not in my shoes and you're not
in my bed.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
So you know, it's so silly to consider other people
really at all when you're dealing with a breakup. No,
unless it's just so silly because it's like, that's not
what it's about, right, Juliana, I'm going to see you
again in about an hour.

Speaker 4 (01:10:12):
Yeah, we have an early dinner before our theater date
and so fun. I love doing your show.

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
Thank you for the sagacious advice today. You were amazing.
You really really were just blowing me away. I didn't
even know what to say.

Speaker 4 (01:10:26):
I just love a girlfriend who knows to say sagacious.
Can we just start there? Yeah, just let's ed here,
t me on a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:10:34):
Well now you're lesbian.

Speaker 4 (01:10:36):
Thank you, honey, thank you for having me. I'll be back.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Goodbye, everybody Bye.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
and engineered by Brad Dickard executive producer Catherine Law and
be sure to check out our march at Chelseahandler dot
com

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