Now Hang On a Second with Brooke Shields

Chelsea is joined by none other than Brooke Shields this week, to discuss the ways in which a long relationship changes over time, why not having kids can be a good thing, and forever choosing to be a hustler.  Then: A mom misses her dog who passed away, but worries about signing up for the same hurt with a new pup.  And a river-rafting trip turns tearful when a girlfriend’s in-laws reveal all the resentments they’ve been harboring against her - for years.

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Executive Producer Nick Stumpf

Produced by Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert

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The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi there everybody. What's going on? Hi Chelsea, what's happening?
Guy's going really good. Actually, our little puppy is growing up.
He's a month older and you know, getting potty trained,
getting there, getting there. Wendell Benyer is a month older
for Wendel ben. What's going to happen to Wendell's life?

(00:21):
He's going to get chebby like a pug shit. He's
going to come out of the closet very soon. Yes, Yes,
he's definitely he's definitely gay, for sure. For sure is
with a name like that? Well, Chelsea, I have a
quick follow up for you. This is from Rachel. She
called in on our microper Big La episode and she
was the one who was getting married and her brother

(00:41):
in law was not letting her sister's kids come to
the wedding. Hi, Catherine and Chelsea. I'm so sorry about
just now replying. I was waiting and hoping that something
would possibly change, but unfortunately that did not happen. My
niece and nephew will sadly not be a part of
my wedding. We're about forty days from the big day,
and after trying to reach out to my ex brother
in law, again, We've just accepted the situation as it is.

(01:04):
It's been about eight months since he and I have spoken,
and things are so messy that he and my sister
still have to communicate through a co parenting app for
documentation and legal purposes. It's a parent that he's hurting
deep down, and I just hope he can get some
help and heal one day. On the bright side, my
sister seems happier than ever nowadays. She's thriving in her
career as an elementary school principle, and she's been able

(01:26):
to really focus on herself for the first time in
a while. So we've taken your advice and decided to
have a private quote pretend wedding in my parents backyard
the week before our wedding. That way, my niece and
nephew can be our flower girl and ring bearer and
have all the attention and happiness directed toward them. Truthfully,
I just want them to be okay and not have
their childhood stripped of their innocence. Chelsea and Catherine, you

(01:49):
two are awesome. Thank you for keeping us all laughing
during some shitty situations. Love Rachel PS. I'll be sure
to send a picture of the three of us on
our backyard wedding stay tuned. Oh that's cute, that's all
good vibes. Too bad about the brother, but whatever it is.
And sometimes we just have to let other people do

(02:09):
what they're gonna do and make the best of a situation.
And I'm really happy that she's choosing to do that.
We've got an amazing guest today, Chelsea. Yeah, we do. Actually,
we just worked together sort of but not really. We
both did Kim Kardashians skims campaign bra campaign uh and
and we both I noticed, used the same hair dresser.

(02:32):
Dresser that's like an an outdated term, but anyway, hair
stylist Ronado, the Sky Ronado, and her hair looked so
badass during the campaign or for the photos. When we
got all the photos, I was like, I thought my
hair looked good. And then I saw brook Shields his
hair and I was like, whoa wait, But then I
realized she's Brooks Shields. Yes, that's where I guess is
today Brookshields. Yeah, she's known for her luscious hair. No,

(02:55):
she's known for her lusciousness. Yes. Absolutely. She is an actress, model,
CEO and host of the Now What podcast. Please welcome Brookshields. Hi, Brook, Hi, Hi,
how are you? I'm good? How are you? How are
you feeling? Oh? My god better? But I sell my
throat still has a pickle, a tickle pickle every I

(03:16):
guess it must be Postdaisal trip. But I'm lying in
bed and I go like this fifty thousand times. I'm
glad I'm single at this time in my life because
I don't know who would want to have sex with me.
All I always like this, My my Chris does that.
My husband Chris doesn't drive me insane insane because it's
neither nor it's not a great cough and it's not

(03:39):
really it's something else. Commit to one word or the other.
On the subject of your husband. Chris actually a good
place to start for us because I knew Chris years ago,
which I think I told you about. I used to
wait tables at a place called Roasty on Montana and
Chris was a young writer who would come in and
he was a really nice guy, and I think he

(03:59):
had some friends and he would come in with other
writer guys. Yeah, and he would come in and that's
how I knew him. And then he went off and
married you, and then I never saw him again. Well,
see it was a natural progression. Yeah, exactly, the man
who stopped speaking to me completely. Oh he said to
say hi, by the way, Oh tell him I say

(04:20):
hi back, please. I will, I will, I will, I will. Um.
But you guys have had such a long successful relationship, marriage, partnership.
I was wondering if you could speak to that and
tell us a little bit about how you feel about
your side of the street in your relationship, how you
feel like you've grown as a woman within your relationship
with having a family and everything, because these are things

(04:42):
I can't really relate to, so I'm so curious. I uh,
I'm his first marriage, or he likes to say I'm
her current marriage. But I had a marriage before, and
I think that that was probably one really great thing
because I learned really what I didn't want in a relationship.

(05:04):
Maybe I should have learned it without having to actually
go through the marriage. But I think that it's first
of all, it's a lot is attributable to him because
he's a very solid person. He doesn't get threatened easily
by any of any of that. I come with a lot,
you know, I come with a lot. It's hard it's hard,

(05:26):
not only my history, but because I'm recognized and because
the world feels like they own me. I think that,
you know, I come with a lot. So he's very,
very patient. And one of the things that I think
what he was willing to do is adapt to certain
things that I have asked him. For instance, when we

(05:47):
first met, it was always funny how he would make
fun of me. And he made fun of me, like
he was just I'm I do really geeky, stupid things,
and like I'm that kid that always said that different
color highlighters and I'm organizing and I like underlining, and
you know, I just I do things that are kind
of geeky, and and he used to make fun of me,

(06:08):
or the fact that I couldn't cook, and it was
cute in the beginning because it was it felt really personal,
but it was never mean. But they were little things.
And as you know, like ten years into the relationship,
I said to him, you know what, I'm growing as
a person, and I'm I don't want to self deprecate
as much as I used to in the same way

(06:29):
and for the same reasons. And you kind of knocking
me down a couple of pegs doesn't feel cute anymore
to me. And I know it sounds like a bait
and switch, and I know I'm changing the terms here,
but we all have to adapt. And you've mentioned accountability
when we were talking one time, and I think that
there is accountability to You're not trying to change the

(06:52):
other person, but there are certain things that have to
become a compromise, and you have to be able to
express what you need and also be able to change
in little ways that do make a huge difference to
your partner. And that type of back and forth in
exchange has been just really healthy for us. Wow. Yeah,

(07:12):
Like he'll if I start a sentence with to him,
I don't think you realize how much I have on
my plate, or something like that, he cannot stand it
because it underestimates how much he really does understand about
me and my life. And so he'll he'll get prickly
with something like that. So I have to keep in

(07:34):
mind that that's not a kind, that's not a rhetoric
that he It just makes him bristle and he in
a in a second. He's got his ire up, you know.
So I think that the willingness to be you know,
people say, oh, friendship. And so, first of all, laughter
is just key. I mean, he just makes me laugh
and that's been a big part of our relationship. He

(07:57):
is such a good father and he put it's in
the time, and that makes being a mother so much
more palatable in many ways for me, even though I've
always wanted to have kids. It's really not easy, and
it's a full time. It's just forever, and then some
that's forever, and then some it's neiver over no, and

(08:20):
and sometimes loving that much, it's just paying the ass.
It's just you're just like, why am I doing this
to myself? Yeah, I can imagine it's the kind of
worry that you're just like, God, did I did I
want to feel this horrible? It's weird. I mean, I
I have that conversation with a really good friend of
mine and she's sort of belaboring the fact that she's

(08:40):
not having children and she never wanted them. And then
the clock got a certain to a certain place, and
then it became difficult, and then it became, oh, no,
what am I missing out on? And I said, you know,
don't lose sight of how you can get love from
her husband's grandchild or how you know. And also to

(09:02):
keep in mind that she never was motivated to have
it wasn't a part of her the way it was
a part of me. I I say that in my
stand up special. On my new stand up special, I
talk about like, if you're on the fence at all
about becoming a mother, then don't become a mother. Like
if you're questioning it, if you're not a hundred and
in in it and saying like this is what I want,

(09:22):
I can't live without it, then you shouldn't have a
baby because it is that kind of commitment. You can't
be like, well, I guess I'm getting older and I
may as well have one, you know, tell your friends
to call me. I'll just shake her out. Well, it's
also true that, you know, hey, I don't I respect
the way you talk about it, because not everybody should
want to have children. If they don't want to, they

(09:43):
shouldn't be shamed into it. And it's a you know,
it is also it's the kind of thing that there's
a lot to it, and you know, it's not going
to fix a relationship. I hear couples talk about, you know,
their marriages having trouble and they think a baby is
going to fix it. Trust me, No, it's not. Whatever
your problems are become magnified right where you have baby, absolutely,

(10:07):
and then that then the blame starts and you're just like,
this is just becoming degraded. Now what Okay? Because I
know you have you spoken a lot and written a
lot about your relationship and the difficulties with your relationship
with your own mother, and I so I think for
your I'm so curious about when you became a mother.
I mean, you must have had such an inner dialogue

(10:27):
going on for fear of replicating any of the stuff
that was so painful or hurtful to you. The weirdest
thing is I've done so much work on myself in
therapy for decades that I focused on the things that
I want to replicate rather than just the things I
didn't want to replicate because I had done so much work.

(10:50):
And so to compare myself in in any way in
a negative way to a woman who really was so
broken and couldn't do the work on herself or for herself,
and you know it's not only just alcoholic. I don't
think she could ever get through step seven or whatever
the amends one is, but I think that her humor

(11:10):
was so important, her willingness to have fun with me,
her belief that I should always have someone my own
age around me, even within this industry, her very frank
way of of discussing anything. You know, she was ballsy,

(11:31):
and that really protected me. And so I try to
remember those things, and I try to be careful about
my drinking because I know that that is in my blood.
I'm surprised at how how much freedom emotionally I give
my kids, you know how. I I never thought that

(11:51):
talking to them about sex and talking to I thought
because my mother never talked to me about anything. You
just were told, don't do it, you'll burn in hell.
And then I became sort of known for being a virgin.
We talk about everything together and I have no judgment,
and I'm shocked at myself, you know. I mean, we

(12:15):
talked about it all, and I didn't think that i'd
be comfortable with it on that level. Yeah, I can
see what you mean by that. I mean, I'm just
thinking about my nieces and nephews and I'm like, yeah,
I guess I would be the closest to non judgmental,
but I'm still they're like my little babies, and I'm like,
I can't even think about the things that they might
be up to getting up to you right now. It's crazy.

(12:36):
It's just so crazy. And but I you know, I
always say, it's just it's important that you have an
ally within these these times in your life because you're
gonna need it. And who better than your mom in
my case with her, because I'm always going to be

(12:58):
here for whatever it is. I'm like, but don't be
an idiots. Do either of your girls remind you of
your mom? Oh, that's a great question. There's sometimes when
my older daughter will do something that is just so defiant,
like she's got balls, my daughter, And you think that

(13:20):
I would see my mom do that, or she would
do things just to be the first one dancing on
the table or something like that. So there are some
kind of ballsy and her sense of humor, My mom's
sense of humor does really sort of breathe through rowan
in particular. Yeah, that's cool. That must be really like

(13:41):
meaningful to see it is because I'll say things that
my mother would have said that just can sound borderline,
like you know, when a dog is outside the deli
or something, and they're looking inside to see where their
master is, like their masters like they just can't they
can only look at their math, her or whatever. My

(14:01):
mother used to walk by the dogs and go, she's
never coming back, which is a sick joke. It's a
sick joke. And my mom was full of sick jokes
like that, and so and I would like try them
out on rowan and she was like, Mom, that's so sick,
but it's so fucking funny. That's cute. Well, I think

(14:26):
that's a really beautiful sentiment, you know. Taking the best
out of a relationship was what we should all be doing,
out of our difficult relationships, out of our beautiful relationships,
out of our best relationships, but taking the best things
about that and trying to replicate those instead of focusing
on the things that you don't want to replicate, focusing
on the things that you do. The minute you start

(14:47):
going down the road of the things you don't want
or the things that are bad, you're now demonizing this
person even more, especially if they're not alive, right, and
then you're not even giving yourself a chance to sort
of not live with rose colored glasses about who they were,
but to also sort of say people are complex, and
I'm going to try to shift this and start with

(15:09):
a positive rather than, you know, making myself terrified that
i'm you know things. I'm my own person too, you know,
And I think that that's important for people to remember,
is that they are they can be their own people,
right exactly. Okay, So we are going to take a
quick break, and then we're going to come back and
get to some callers who need some life advice. Brooke,
We're going to dish it out and give real people

(15:31):
advice on what to do in situations. Catherine, are we
ready to take a quick break. I think we're ready
to take a quick Oh my god, we're taking a
break and we'll be right back, and we're back and
we're back. Well, you know what, I'm gonna switch up
the order that I intended these in because we've already
been talking about dogs, and I see you have it's Pepper,

(15:53):
right of Pepper, they're bored. She just got up and left. Now,
aren't dogs all bored all the time? It's not where
they're sleeping all of the time. And my dogs are
sleeping all of the time. Like cats are more bored
than than dogs. I think, I don't know. Mine is
so neurotic and insecure. My dogs are like cats. I
have two cat dogs, wow, and I have a neurotic

(16:15):
separation anxiety dog. She's a Portuguese water dog. I mean,
those are nice dogs. What happens when you have a
dog in the city, Isn't that just a fucking huge
pain in the ass brook to have to go outside
into the city every time they need to go out. Yeah,
it's it can be a bit can be, but you know,

(16:35):
you get your dog people in town and we are
able to leave the city in the summer, and I
have the best of both worlds. I mean, what's hard
is making sure your dog can tell you when they
have to go to the bathroom, which, like I now
know her look obviously when she's gotta go, but she's
not clear, Like she doesn't go to the door and
like paw the door. So there's been many a package

(16:58):
left room. We trained our little pug, Mimsy, using bells,
so she if she has to go out, she just
goes and rings the bell. I mean we take her
out at regular interviews anyway. But it's it's a life saver,
it's a carpet saver. Yeah, well it's too freaking late
for us, Catherine, thanks for the hot tip. Now, I mean,
you can't train these dogs to ring doorbells? Can't learn Okay, Well,

(17:21):
and I actually just got a new puppy. But I
actually picked this question for you weeks ago. So this
question comes from Lindsay. Lindsay says, Dear Chelsea, should we
get a new dog. It's been over four years since
our dog passed away. She felt like a soulmate to me,
and we went through so many life events together. I

(17:41):
loved her in a way that makes my heart burst
even today. Her passing was tragic and took years to
get through. I feel her presence all the time, and
I miss her every day. In the last year, I've
been finding myself wanting the physical presence of a dog again. However,
I'm terrified of not feeling that same love for a
new dog. Well also being terrified that I'll feel that
strong feeling again, which ultimately means I'll feel terrible loss again.

(18:05):
We travel often, have two senior cats and a six
year old. Our lives are busy, so I also wonder
if maybe the timing isn't right to add a dog
to our family. How will I know when the time
is right? How do I get past the fear? Lindsay,
Just get a fucking dog, Lindsay, I mean, this is
not a hard problem at all. Get a dog, and
don't compare that dog all the time to your deceased

(18:28):
little love bug. Because it took me a while too,
and I was like, I'm not gonna love this dog
as much, and then I was resistant, and poor dog
didn't know the difference. She didn't know my other dog.
You know, Um, I just think, get a dog, and
and it's good for a little girl to grow up
with with a dog. I mean, you know you're gonna
end up doing all the work, obviously, but but also

(18:50):
once you get a new dog, your love transfers. You
don't have any choice but to love and focus on
that dog that you're not going to have be comparing
it to your other dog, even like I've had so
many dogs, and every time you just have a different
kind of love for them. You're like, oh my god,
this is my number one now. It actually helps you
get over the loss of the other one too, actually too.
And if you have just one kid, I mean, think

(19:12):
about if you had another daughter, would you only love
the six year old more than the baby. I doubt it. Yeah, exactly,
So you just it's like growing another heart. So buck
up and just go get that dog. Okay, I think so,
lindsay get the dog. Well that was easy. That was
probably the easiest question we've ever gotten. So oh boy, Okay. Well,

(19:35):
our next question comes from Jesse. She's a caller, she says,
Dear Chelsea, my boyfriend and I recently went on a
camping trip with his whole family, mom, dad's sister, and
his nephew. My nine year old son and our dog
also joined us. Three days in, we had reservations to
go whitewater rafting with my boyfriend's sister, her son, my son,

(19:58):
and my boyfriend. The big ending of the river was amazing.
We were all laughing, screaming, and having the best time.
Shortly into it, I decided to move back a seat
to sit next to my boyfriend. His sister is an
aggressive type A and promptly turns around to tell me
to move back to my original seat. I told her
it should be fine because I'm still peddling in the
same area I was before. She continued to tell me, no,

(20:21):
I need to move back while raising her voice. I
told her not to talk to me like that, and
all hell broke loose. She used this moment to stand up,
point her finger in my face while telling me all
the things she's always hated about me since day one.
She concluded it by saying, and I'm not the only
one who feels this way. I immediately broke down and

(20:43):
cried the rest of the two hour trip down the river,
we packed up our camp and drove back home. As
soon as we got back to the campsite, his mom
and dad sided with his sister and also doubled down
on all the resentments they have had towards me for
the four years we've been together. Nothing they've said makes
any sense to me, and I honestly feel broken, sad,

(21:03):
and confused. I lost my dad to COVID. Have considered
his family my family. I can feel the energy shift
in my relationship with my boyfriend, and I truly don't
know where to go from here. Please help. Jesse Oh, no, Jesse, Hi, Jesse, Hi, Jesse. Hey,
this is our special guest, Brookshields is here today. Hi Brook,

(21:27):
So nice to see you all. I mean, first of all,
rapt trips are not easy they're they're challenging, and there
they bring out a lot in people. I think that
was that was one of the issues for sure. What
did you how did your Have you spoken at length
to your boyfriend about all of this? We actually both

(21:48):
started seeing a therapist. We both see the same therapist now,
which is convenient. So on Sundays basically that he does
him at ten am and at eleven am, and we're
both kind of talking it out with Arthur a pist, so,
I mean, we're just we're trying to get through it.
It's just it was a lot and he's not really
sure where to go from here either, Like what what

(22:09):
is he saying? Like how does he feel? I mean,
what does he agree with his family? Did he know
that they felt this way? He he's a different person
with them than he is with me. He's very quiet
around them, he's very doesn't really speak his mind, but
when he's with me, he's like, that was obviously crazy,
you know, And basically I don't want to surround myself

(22:29):
with somebody that's really negative and that just brings that
energy around. So he doesn't really agree with it at all.
Well usually though, But there's also a part in a
relationship where to a certain extent, your partner has to
be able to stick up for you in some way,
and it can be done in a loving way. But

(22:50):
you are his choice. His family, he was didn't have
a choice about, you know, is he older or younger
than the he's younger. She's actually my age and he's
three years younger than me. And what's her life situation.
She's a single mom. She's always had that aggressive side,
a little just abrasive. I think it's kind of like

(23:11):
a guard she has up to protect herself, if that
makes sense, because she's kind of always been on her own,
and she does take care of her son by herself,
so it's just her and him. What's interesting about that
is there I feel like there's some jealousy and projection.
But also when anybody says, and I'm not the only
one that feels that way, that's a sort of a
cop out because they're not owning their vitriol. You know,

(23:35):
they're sort of pawning it off on someone. I hate that.
I hate that when people use that in fights. Oh
my god, it was so hurtful. Yeah, I immediately started
crying and so unfair by the way to the rest
of his family also, because you know, sometimes that can
be an opening for the rest of his family talking
to them and sort of saying, is this true. Do

(23:58):
you have a problem with me that I don't know about?
Because I love your brother, I love your son. Can
we talk about this? Just because to hear it like
that and being such an outburst, there has to be
something else either going on. I mean, I would save
her to last, but I don't know. Also, funny you
say that because we have this conversation yesterday and I'm like,
you know, I feel like this was obviously a projection

(24:19):
of something, but this might have something to do with
her and his relationship. Oh you know, maybe that's what
made her because there wasn't anything that led up to
that other than the changing seats on the raft that
made her so angry. Yeah, is there another sister? Is
it just the two of them? It's just the two
of them? Well, you're invading her space, and you know, yeah,

(24:42):
something that popped up for me reading that, imagining myself
like if I were the sister blowing up, but you
is potentially she had some anxiety about the white water
rafting and you're moving it like brought out this other stuff,
but she's also clearly been harboring resentments. And I'm so
bombed out that this happened to you, But I'm also
sorry this happened in front of your son, like any

(25:02):
adult was one of the main issues for me was
it happened in front of my son. I couldn't, you know,
I couldn't. I couldn't scream at her. I I just
went in the other direction. But that's okay, because you
don't want to scream in Yale, because that's a loss
of control. Her screaming at you in the middle of
a white water rafting trip is like a complete loss
of control. So if any like that's on her, Yeah,

(25:23):
there's a million ways to have a rational conversation when
you have issues with somebody. Flipping out in the middle
of a trip is a loss of control that you
need to apologize for. That's where accountability comes in. You
have to go God, that was really inappropriate, especially in
front of your kid. And also, if you don't have
the guts to tell me personally, you need an audience.

(25:44):
I don't know what that says about her, you know,
I think I think she's she's obviously triggered and maybe
it sounds like she's jealous of whatever she thinks you have,
including her brother, or angry just at her own circumstances.
So what were the complaints that she had about you?
What did she say? Oh my god, they were so
ridiculous one of the main ones, because I didn't hear

(26:06):
them from her. The only thing on the trip that
I heard was that I keep bringing up their childhood
and she doesn't like that. I I don't know. I
like to get really deep when I talk to people.
It's almost to a fault, Like I immediately start talking
about therapy, and you know, everybody needs therapy. Therapy is great.
And I live in South Alabama. I live in in
a small southern town, but the people around here just

(26:29):
aren't that way, you know, And whenever I talk to
them about it, I can see they get uncomfortable. But
I almost take that as an opening to keep going
and like helping them just be happier and live happier lives. Almost,
you know, we don't have to worry about this other ship.
We can be on a happy path if we want to.
But I think maybe they did see me as a threat.

(26:51):
I don't know, maybe they saw me that's what our
therapist is saying that, like, I caused a disruption in
their family unit, which is no fault of yours. It's
not a fault just dating the sky. It's not a
fault of yours at all. I mean, I also think
holding a mirror up two people, you know, they get
really threatened if they don't have the guts to do

(27:13):
that kind of self exploration, you know, and admit things
that you know way aren't the best about them. But
this is not your fault. I mean, God, I just
I want him to come to your aid, but I
don't want it to be my decision. You know. We
had this conversation yesterday. I'm like, well, I was. What
I would love for you to do is to do this,

(27:34):
you know, to go over there and stand up for
yourself and say this is who I am, and and
we're not mad about any of the complaints. His mom
is the one who came over and kind of started
using this opportunity to tell me about things that have
made her angry over the years about me, and one
of them was that I didn't help do dishes on
Thanksgiving two years ago. And on my side, I'm like,

(27:55):
all you have to do is ask and I'll do
the dishes, you know. But also I don't really you
pick up after myself when I'm invited to Thanksgiving dinner.
You know, it's like this was your house, you know,
this is your stuff, and but all you have to
do is ask. But it was really petty stuff like that,
Like I didn't help pick up dishes at Thanksgiving. I
didn't help bring bags over to the campsite. I didn't

(28:17):
help them unload the stuff from their from their car
to their tent. Just things like that, and how they
don't think I treat their son right. But well, listen,
all of these examples you are giving are reasonable things
for someone. Listen, when I go to somebody's house, I
don't know how to do dishes, but I always clean
up after myself, whether it's someone else's house or not.
That's just kind of like a nice thing to do.

(28:39):
So the things that they're saying, whatever, it doesn't matter
whether they're right or you're wrong. It's just a matter
of how you're having the conversation, right, if they have resentments,
and like they shouldn't have to ask you to come
and help with the dishes as a guest. You should
try and help, and then they either say no or
thank you. You know what I mean, you no, you
sit down, or thank you. You know, there's there's a
certain like measure of manners that you should impart and when,

(29:01):
especially when you're at your boyfriend's parents house, just out
of decency, right, So all of these things, it's it's like, Okay,
that's a good point, that's a bad point. It doesn't matter.
It's just a matter of the tenor of the conversation
because they've they've clearly painted you as this person that
doesn't help out wherever you go camping over to Thanksgiving.
They think you're selfish and that I would imagine that

(29:22):
you don't treat your boyfriend with respect. In their eyes,
that's what they're thinking. It's funny. The dishes thing is
a funny thing because my daughter just recently said to me,
she said, Mom, I'm amazed at how badly behaved a
lot of young people are. She said, Whenever we're at
dinner at someone else's house, she was like, mom, my
sister and I are always the first up to go

(29:43):
help with the dishes, and it's either oh my god,
thank you so much, or no, no, no, Donnie, sit down,
like you know, but it's that little gesture. There are
little things that go a long way, but these things
feel that there's something deeper that they're using these petty
things to say, Oh, she's a princess, she doesn't want
to help with anything. You're obviously not that, but it

(30:05):
feels like there's something deeper. You know, you're taking her
son away? Are you his first real relationship? You know,
you're the other woman with regards to the sister. Whenever
these things happen, it's always about that person. The person
dolling out, the person doing that is the person with
the issue for sure, And that's hard for you to say,

(30:27):
But it's also important to say to take accountability when
it's when you don't even feel like you've done anything wrong.
You know what, I mean. To be a bigger person
in this larger conversation that you're having about your relationship,
I think it's really important for you to consider everything
that they're saying, and whether or not you think you're
wrong or right doesn't matter. Right, it's just about the
actual tenor of the conversation. Because if you come back

(30:48):
at them calmly in a month or so or whatever
and say, hey, listen, I've thought a lot about everything
you guys said, and I want to take some accountability
and responsibility from my end of the thing, and I
will definitely contribute more and this and that, But I
also you also need something in return for that too.
So when you're going to therapy with you and your boyfriend,
like when you say your boyfriend doesn't know how to

(31:08):
move on from this, you've been together for four years,
are you contemplating splitting up over this? It was actually
it was a thought just because I felt like I
was coming between him and his family. But isn't that
a defensive thought though? Is that a real thought or
a defensive Yeah, it was totally an insecurity. It was
fully based off of he's going to choose them, so

(31:29):
I better hurry up and in this right. So I
was just this whole thing just made me really uncomfortable.
Like the face to face confrontation kind of scared me.
And I'm like, well, my son is traumatized, and I've
tried to have open conversations with him, and just just
so he's not traumatized, do you think sitting down and

(31:50):
having a face to face conversation with his parents would
be beneficial. I think that you need to I think, yes,
I think you're on the defense and you have every
I understand why, But I think you need to like
or your defenses and come from a place of understanding
and love because they're looking at you as a threat
and a loss. So like you have to be bigger
than that, and you have to go, Okay, these people

(32:12):
are scared that they're going to lose their son. They
found a bunch of things they don't like about me.
Let me make this easier for everybody, you know what
I mean, And you be the bigger person who cares
how they behaved, who cares how they acted. You can
actually make like a blueprint for them moving forward on
how you're all going to communicate together. So it is
a big opportunity for you to be a bigger person
and to actually come from your heart, not being defensive,

(32:35):
not trying to get rid of him before he gets
rid of you, or get rid of him before his
family gets rid of you, because that's not really anything.
You know, then you might just be losing somebody that's
supposed to be in your life. If you put the
effort forth, coming from a place of love, and then
it doesn't work out, then you have no regrets and
you have nothing to be ashamed about, nothing at all
to be ashamed about. And the most disarming thing is

(32:58):
coming at people with love, because I always say to
my daughter's tug of war only works if both people
are pulling. And it's so disarming to sort of say,
all right, I'm going to own my part in this.
But when you these conversations, I've learned not to say
you made me feel like this, you did this. I say,

(33:18):
when you said that, all of this insecurity came up
in me, and I'm so sorry if if I haven't,
I didn't know that was the proper I didn't know
that's what you wanted. And I'll always you know. And
it's once you give them the littlest thing, like you know,
i'd love to help you in the kitchen. I didn't.
I didn't think whatever did. The reason is then you're

(33:40):
you've lowered the frenetic, like you said, the tenor of
the whole communication, and then you can say, you know,
I'm not trying to steal your son. I love this,
you know, family, or whatever you have to say. But
I do think that once you come at it from
a place like Telsea said, of love. Nobody can fight
against that. There's no nothing to fight against. Now, they

(34:03):
may not be the kind of arrived people emotionally that
will be able to handle it. You kind of have
to be ready for that too, you know. And then
you're like, look, I'm not I'm not trying to fight
with you. I'm trying to understand because I felt hurt
and I felt embarrassed in front of my son. And
this is an important moment. You know, we were on

(34:25):
a vacation. That's a very intimate thing, and I don't
want that to be the memory from this. Can we
move through this and can we have an open conversation
so that we can all own this and own our
truth without hurting each other. Yeah, it's such a good perspective. Yeah. Yeah,
it's the harder thing to do. It's the high road,

(34:46):
you know, but it's so admirable and it's so freeing because,
like Chelsea said, then there's zero regret and also there's
no defense in like, you know, if she's defensive, if
the sisters defensive, if the mother's defensive, you don't match
that defensiveness. The only way to diffuse that is to
have no reaction to that. Right, So if someone's screaming
at you and you're not screaming back at them and

(35:08):
you're just looking at them, then where do they go?
But they that situation just diffuses. It has to because
you can't yell alone. So like that's where I would
say to you know, to go to mentally when you
have this conversation, and should be in person, and it
should be with the whole family because they owe you
that for putting you in that situation in the first place,
you know what I mean. And also I think that

(35:29):
he obviously these are two very strong women in his life.
Was that his dad there and dad weren't on the
raft with us, they were back at the camp site.
Oh okay, but yeah he was there. So see I
wonder if that's the dynamic that has been set since
he was a little boy. You know, you've got these
two demonstrative women, then he always is silenced or his

(35:52):
masculinity is is not you know, important, or he watches
how his mother treats is dead or whatever that is.
Like that's the stuff that that's coming up and hopefully
will be dealt with in therapy. But what's really hard
to do is to put him and also in a
position like saying why didn't you stick up for me?
That's also a defensive you know, that's also very difficult

(36:12):
because if he doesn't know how to stick up for
himself and probably never did as a child or with
these women, it doesn't matter how much he loves you,
it's gonna he doesn't have the tools yet. He hasn't
learned how to stick up for yourself. Vote with love,
and remember if that's his blueprint for women, like you're
also that woman in his life, another strong willed, powerful woman.

(36:35):
So remember that when you're dealing with him, because you
want to have your own dynamic with him, so that
there's also value in dissecting that in therapy with alone
and with each other. Oh my gosh, he's never really
uncovered any truths about his past until recently. So while
I'm like repairing from what happened on the camping trip,
he's repairing from all all these years of trauma and

(36:58):
from his childhood unlearning things that he learned as a kid. Yeah. Wow,
that kind of patience is huge. And and you know,
I've found in relate my relationships that I'm always better
off if I somehow give them the space to have
whatever and without being the one that says you have

(37:20):
to do this and I want this, and because you
can do all that. By the way, the fact that
he's going to therapy with you is huge, huge, Yeah,
it is huge. And I think that that's where you
guys can heal, you know, I think in that together
and that's just yours. That's nothing that's not his family. Yeah. Yeah,

(37:42):
we did make the decision this year. I was going
to ask you, So, my birthday is the day after Christmas.
His birthday is on the thirtieth, and every year on
Christmas Eve, we go to his uncle's house for this
big Christmas Eve thing. His sister and his nephew go
and his mom and dad and just kind of an
intimate MS Eve thing. We made the decision not to
go just because his sister is going to be there.

(38:05):
It was hard, but we made the decision. So I
was listening to him one day, we were on our
lunch break and he got emotional talking about not going
to Christmas Eve. So I'm like, what, I'm going to
throw a surprise party for him. I've got to do
something for him, Like I gotta. I've got to repair this.
He's upset. So I texted his mom and I said,
I'd love to throw a surprise party on the thirty,

(38:27):
on his birthday. I'd love for you guys to be there,
if you could bring his nephew, and if you could
reach out to his uncle's as well to come, I
would love that. And they said what his mom's response was,
this puts us in an uncomfortable position because they wouldn't
want to bring the sun without his mom. They're basically
his sister, and I understand that for sure, but but

(38:50):
now I'm like, well, since I was shot down, that
was kind of embarrassing because I've put myself out there
that you're being defensive. Again, you're being defensive, but also
you put yourself out there in a way that's very hard,
because what that is, that's almost like you're doubling down
by going, oh, yeah, well I'm going to throw this
party for him. That's not and then but putting them

(39:13):
in a position where they're not going to invite their
own daughter. So that's not correct what you did. Okay,
I'm gonna be very honest with you, obviously, because I
can't be anything else but I think you were really
coming from a place where you have to adjust a
little bit now to these people definitely have adjustments to make,
but you need to adjust because you're putting them in
a position where they have to leave out their daughter
for their son's birthday. Paraty. Think about that. That's not

(39:35):
cool for you to do to a family, and that
is a disruption to a family. And if the most
generous thing you can do is send his mother at
text back and say, you know what, okay, I understand
that this puts you in a difficult position. He's very
upset about missing Christmas Eve. Either agree to go with
him and go together and bury the hatchet and send

(39:56):
everyone an email beforehand saying this is such an important
holiday for your boyfriend and I want to be there
for him, and I just want to be there in
support and love and I don't want to have any
issues or any problems. However you want to say it
in the most gracious way you can find unearthed all
of the therapy that you have gleaned and use it

(40:16):
and give it out right now, and and then go
to this Christmas Eve dinner if you can, if not
let him go without you you know, let him be
with his family. Don't take people's families from them. You know,
I definitely don't want I don't want it to be
my decision at all, right, but just offered up. I'd
stay offered up. And I was gonna say that early.
I was just trying to ease do it. But I

(40:38):
think the best thing you can do for him and
for yourself is to go to now. I don't I
don't believe they've uninvited you. I'm assuming not, but to
go and kill him with kindness and whatever it is.
I'm sorry I didn't help you in the kitchen. I
know holidays are really stressful. I wasn't thinking properly jump

(40:59):
in the kitchen and be like I'm cleaning all the
dishes or without making it a thing, but saying like
I apologize, What can I do to help? Yeah, you
don't even have to bring up the dishes. Just go
there this time and help and do all the things
that they accused you of. Just go in there. You
don't have to make it a thing and have a conversation,
just a show by example that you heard what they said,

(41:19):
regardless of how they came to you, and regardless of
the altercation that happened on the boat. You be the
bigger person. This is a huge opportunity for you to
go in. You were going to leave that Christmas Eve
dinner feeling fucking victorious. Yeah, God, I hope so you are.
I promise you you are. You're going to report back
to us right after. Also, and that's the most loving
thing that you can do for yourself and for your boyfriend.

(41:41):
And you need to apologize to his mother for putting
them in that situation. Also, just say, you know what,
I wasn't thinking. You're right. I wasn't thinking that wasn't right.
I'm very sorry for doing that, and I apologize, you
know what I mean, and then leave it at that.
Just then, that's a you put that in a text
back to her, you know when she said you're putting
us in an uncomfortable situation. Was that a text from her? Yeah,

(42:04):
that was a text from his mom. Yeah. I think
you should apologize to her, say you're right, I didn't
see it that way. I get it now. And then
whether you want to text them about showing up for
Christmas or talk to your boyfriend and how he wants
to handle it. But let him know that you're ready
to go and play ball and have a great time
and there are no hard feelings and you can deal
with the other stuff later. Do you think that I

(42:26):
should have a conversation with his sister and I just
don't see no confrontation kind of Well, you can send
her a text or an email and just say, hey, listen,
Christmas Eve is coming up. This is what's your boyfriend's name, Taylor, Taylor.
I know we have some stuff, unfinished business or whatever
however you want to frame it, but be like, this
is the holiday season. I just want Taylor to be

(42:46):
with his family and be happy. I know this is
meaningful to him. I'm going to do my best to
show up for you, guys in the ways that you
don't think I have or whatever. Just you know what
I mean, vastly in the whole situation, and then go
in there and demonstrate the fact that you heard what
they said and you're you're still in therapy. You guys
have all the time in the world to figure out

(43:07):
the nuances and the intricacies of how you want to
handle this situation. But in the meantime, go and show
yourself and make the situation lovely it's a good challenge
for yourself. You don't have to get into it with anybody.
If anyone says anything untoward towards you, just let it
roll over, you know, let it roll off your back.
Use it as an exercise. And also you've said more

(43:28):
than one time, I don't want it to be my decision. Well,
it has to be your decision, but it has to
be your decision under the right auspices, you know, with
the right heart, because he's in trauma with the all
with the whole process and dealing with issues that he's
had with his parents or with his mom and his sister.
You know, this is not the first time. I'm sure

(43:49):
something they have put him in some this position before.
He's looking to you also without saying it, to make
a decision, but do it because of love, and they
won't have anything to fight against. But you know, Chelsea's right,
like the actions are going to speak louder than any
text any words. Yeah, and I want you to think
about it in this way when you go in there.

(44:11):
This relationship may work and there are this relationship may
not work. But either way they were always going to
look back at the Christmas Eve that their son missed
and blame the girl that was be the cause of that.
So don't be that girl. Go be the girl that
actually looked over all of it and said, fuck it,
we're coming anyway. I'm a bigger person than this. I'm
not gonna let you bring me down. I'm gonna be
here to support my boyfriend, and I'm gonna be here

(44:32):
and show you what a loving family member I can be,
just for now, just so that that's not the memory
that any of you have that he missed a Christmas
Eve with his family because of some woman, do you
know what I mean? Yeah, and your son too. It's
really good for your son to see how you've processed
this information and see how you show up, see how
you show up for yourself, and the graciousness of that

(44:57):
is is such a good trait, my god. That Yeah,
I really need to stop being stop being defensive and
think of these two words grace and dignity. Grace and dignity.
Whenever I am dealing with somebody that I want to
fucking kill, I think about grace and dignity, and then
I just exude that. Oh my god, and yeah, and

(45:17):
putting myself in an uncomfortable position is only going to
be beneficial for me. You know, nothing bad can come
from that. They also, you know that they've put you
in a position to It's like they're trying to win, right,
and so if you cower away or then pull him away,
they've they've won. You know, they've won, and they're right
in everything they've said. But if you show them that

(45:39):
they're actually not right and this is how and this
is why, then there's nothing else. Either there's something much
much deeper, and it'll come out or it won't come out.
But the important thing is is that you are taking
this and saying, wow, I had no idea. Whether you
agree with it or not, it's not the point. Yeah,

(45:59):
these little gestures like I hurt them in some way
and just that, did they ever say that word you
hurt me? No? But you know, there were a lot
of different things that happened that were said. I don't
really remember all of them. I just immediately put up
a guard, immediately got defensive, like whoa, whoa, whoa who whoa,
Like y'all have never said this to me. And that's

(46:21):
kind of what I was focusing on, was the fact
that they've never said that to me. But they're saying
it now, so now I address it, you know. And also,
you know, is this is the way you've really always
felt about me. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to do
anything to you, and that it was never my intention,
and and try not to play like a victim role
at all. Just try not to be emotional about it.

(46:44):
I understand you have your emotions and you have your
right to them, but like, just try to be even
and just think about grace and dignity throughout the whole thing.
Even if someone says something untoward or unkind or a
little you know, slight, you can just look the other
way and just not engage, not react. It's not your place.
You're just here to support your boyfriend. That's it. Yeah,

(47:04):
don't make it about me, right, Yeah, and don't make
it a self fulfilling prophecy that you're the gal coming
in to keep him from his family. I'm I'm being
the bigger person. Yeah, this is this is yeah, And yeah,
don't expect like a metal or anything either, Like that's
the like, but I've done the altruistic thing, you know,
and it's like it's not the way it works, and

(47:26):
it's like it's almost like you have to do a
random act of kindness. You know, it's a very targeted
random act of kindness to snap out of it. My
mom used to pay the toll of the car behind
us and then just keep driving, and she and I'd say, oh, well,
you know, they don't know it's you. And because that's
why it's a random act of kindness, you don't pull
over on the side of the road and point to yourself.
I paid me. You know you're welcome. Yeah, you do

(47:49):
it without getting anything back, right, yeah? Yeah, Well Jesse,
let us know how it goes, okay, and I will
very good luck. Thank you. I think you's your son.
It's the best thing to do for your son too. Ye.
Conflict resolution, We've been talking a lot about about that,
like how kids will see arguments and they don't see

(48:11):
them resolved. So but I can't thank you all enough.
This was like huge for me, and I'm just I'm really,
really really happy that I got to talk to you.
All right, Well, good luck with everything, okay, thank you,
and keep us posted, okay, thank you, will all right,
bye bye bye, Brooke. You're so good at this. Oh god,

(48:32):
I've never done anything like this before in my life.
I'm sweating. Guys. She took up our whole fucking episode.
I was like, oh my god, this is a serious
situation because, you know what, when that call started, I
was like same, And once they I realized what they
said to her, I'm like, well, wait a second, maybe
they have a fucking point, because you know, there are
obviously two sides to every story. And then with her defensiveness,

(48:54):
I'm like, Okay, we're gonna have to spend a little
extra time with her because she does need to take
it down a notch. Right, Right, if someone showed up
at my house, I don't care who they are, and
they didn't at least attempt to help with the dishes,
it's like one oh one, Yeah, so that's a little
bit askew. Right, you don't say, nobody's gonna say, can
you come help with the dishes? As a guest, you
don't have. That's not their job to ask you. It's

(49:15):
your job to get my mom this I was. I
was like a kid, kid, like five or something, and
I went over to this little rich boy's house and
after we were finished eating, I brought my dishes to
the sink and the mom called my mom later and said, yes, well,
we just wanted you to know that we have people

(49:35):
to do that. And so you tell your daughter that
she she shouldn't bring her dishes to the sink, and
my mother said, well, we don't have people, and don't
worry about it because she's never coming over to your
house again. Click. She was always like, come on, you
gotta do it. It's they're little things go a long way. Yeah. Yeah, seriously.

(50:00):
So let's take a quick break and we'll be right
back to wrap up with Brooke and Chelsea. And we're
back to wrap up with Bookshield, who has been a
delight as Oh my god, good advice. Brook. I mean,
that was our longest call ever, I think, Catherine, but
it was complicated. Well, I'm kind of both. No, I'm

(50:24):
I was down for it. Listen, I could have been
on the phone with her all day. I'm I'm down
with that totally. Well, you know what, Brooke, do you
have any advice you'd like from Chelsea? Yes? Brooke, do
you have any advice you would like to ask me? Well,
there was one bit of advice that I was like,
because I don't this is really from your special because
I'm really bad with any kind of drug, like I

(50:46):
can't take anything. And I was like, I'm going to
ask her what she thinks would work for me, to
sort of dial me down a little bit every once
in a while so that I could relax a little more. Yeah, honestly,
I don't think you're I don't think you're cut out
for drugs either. I think I know what you mean.
I know. I mean, like I hate of a joint
would be fine for you, not inedible because those are

(51:07):
like long, but like just a hit, not a joint,
but just a hit would just take the edge off
and make you a little bit loosey, goosey and giggly
and not probably as tightly wound as you may feel,
because I can. I know you and I you've talked
about it, and you know I feel tightly wound a
lot of the times too, even though people would not
find that hard to believe. I am, you know, I
can be really stressed out about stuff, and I find

(51:28):
a hit of a joint, not a smoking a joint,
a cannabis drink would be good too. I'll send you
some leisure town here. So you know what I do, though,
is I try to beat it, like I try to
win at it. So the moment where you go, wait
a minute, did I did I just go somewhere Now
I'm back? That makes me like panic. I know, you
can need to have like less than two and a

(51:49):
half milligrams. You need leisure Town. This is a cannabis
drink that has two and a half milligrams. You have
to start with that and it just micro dose and
that's it and that's all you need and you will
feel it and you won't get crazy and you won't
go overboard. Okay, I mean I like tequila. You do,
like there's nothing wrong with drinking. You don't have a

(52:09):
drinking problem. Books, you don't have to worry about becoming
your mother. That's already a rap, Like You're not that person, right.
I do have one question, though, this is a different
type of question as a you said you're not an actress,
but you really your talent and your performance, the level
of rejection that is in this industry, Yes, how do

(52:33):
you find the way to say no, I'm I'm really
good and I'm going to keep putting myself out there
and I'm not going to take it personally, you know,
when you get doors slammed in your face, or you
don't get so many of these things. What's the thing
inside you that makes you say no, no, no, no no, no,
no, no no, nope, nope, nope. I will not be rejected

(52:55):
like this. I'm a hustler. God, that's me too, And
you're always gonna your been here this whole time. So
you've been here for thirty something years forty well for you,
I don't even know how many years because I started
when I was eleven months old, right, Okay, there you go,
and so you've been here this whole time, so you're
not going anywhere, so funk. Anybody who says no, listen,
rejection fucking sucks. I've rejected all the time too. It hurts,

(53:19):
it hurts, It hurts, it hurts, But it's not all
there is. There's always there's acceptance, and there's the one
person that says yes, or the one person that gives
you the deal or the opportunity or the podcast or
this or that. And when you're a hustler, you will
always find a way. So that's what you are. That's
why I've lived my life. And you know, people will
say to me, oh, you have such a varied career.

(53:39):
I'm like, why do you think that is. That's when
I'm shut out over here. I'm like, oh, God, write
a book or you know. And it's because I will
not not be creative in some way or another. I
just I hadn't heard you say it that way. I've
always when people say how are you, I say, it's
all soul, no matter what, it's all hustle. And there's

(54:04):
something liberating about that too. So you know what. Also,
I'm proud of being a hustler. That's a great way
to be. Yeah, my mom would be proud of both
of us. Well, thank you Brooks so much. It was
such a fun time talking to you. Thanks for taking
the time to do this. Thank you. You look like
you're in a beautiful, snowy place. I hope you're in
apecial place whatever that is, and enjoying the weather. Thank you,

(54:28):
Thank you. I am good, feel better. Thank you so much.
Have a great day. Thank you. Don't forget to watch
my special on Netflix. You guys revolution. It's a revolution.
So if you'd like advice from Chelsea, just send us
an email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com.
Dear Chelsea is a production of I Heart Radio executive

(54:50):
produced by Nick Stump, produced by Catherine Law and edited
and engineered by Brad Dickert.