Split Sh*t 50/50 with Gabrielle Union

Gabrielle Union joins Chelsea this week to talk about what it meant to her to document her recent trip to Africa, finding her inner peace, and what it’s like to marry someone almost a decade younger than she is. Then: A want-to-be mom wonders if it’s time to give up the IVF fight - or try one last time.  An artist struggles with jealousy, and finding the patience to keep creating despite past failures.  And a bestie wonders if she’s lost her friend after their kids get in a tussle.  

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brandon Dickert

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi Catherine, Oh, Hi Chelsea. I'm watching my whole entire
crew that works with me at my house. I wouldn't
say works, I say works with me instead of works
for me, because I don't want to be a cunt.
But let's be honest. I'm not doing fucking anything at
my house. I am leaving so that they can move
me into my new house.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
We really is happening.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
Well, No, I'm moving out of my rental because I'm
going to be gone for pretty much the whole summer.
Although don't worry, we have fresh podcasts coming every week.
We've taken care of everything. We will not desert you.
But they're packing everything up and then I have to
basically pack everything that I want for the first leg
of my trip, which is a month London, Portugal, Norway,

(00:42):
and then I have to come back for Ben Bruno's
wedding at the end of July, so I'm stopping down.
So I was at my chiropractor yesterday for my neck
not cracking my necks because I have some neck issues.
So he's just doing bodywork on me and one of
the guys there, I go, are you guys all going
to Ben Bruno's wedding because everybody knows you're each other.
And the one guy was like, no, I'm not going.

(01:03):
You know, it's I've got kids. It's just too much,
I go too much. What he goes, I'm like, you've
got kids. It's on a fucking Saturday night. Like yeah,
mean he goes, Yeah, I just told him, it's just like,
you know, it's really hectic with the kids. I'm like,
first of all, dick shit, it's Saturday night, okay. Are
you too cheap to buy a present? Is that why
you're not going?

Speaker 3 (01:21):
I mean, I'm like, I'm flying back from fucking Europe
to go to bed Bruno's wedding and you're too lazy
to fucking get in your car on a Saturday and
drive over to the hotel where they're having the wedding.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
I mean, people get really offended if there's no kids
at the wedding though, like if you're not a wedding,
even if you have children, leave them home.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
But also it's kind of insulting to be invited to
a wedding and you don't go unless you have a
really good reason, not because you don't feel like it.
It's just like what like I missed my girlfriend's Sophia
Bush's wedding, for instance, but I was on tour, like
you know what, I would love, have loved for much
preferred to be with her than on tour.

Speaker 2 (02:00):
But I probably send a gift, yeah maybe hopefully hopefully
somebody said a gift. Yeah, Oh my gosh. I but
even you know, you bring up a good point, like
maybe it doesn't it doesn't have enough money to buy
a gift. Whatever, do a really nice card and be like,
we'll take you to dinner. Not, how ever, can afford
an expensive gift, but like you can go to the wedding.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
I do wedding.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
I don't even yeah, I don't even think people, Well
I shouldn't say that because people are expecting gifts, like
I shouldn't say I don't even think people are expecting gifts.
I know people. If I got married, I would not
want a gift, but I would also probably not get married,
so I wouldn't expect Yeah, but so I wouldn't say that.
I think they do want gifts this wedding. So I
think I got very specific instruction it's about a gift,

(02:41):
So hopefully somebody's doing that too.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
Oh my gosh, if you wanted to be really shady
for her, you could get her a bread box. But
we like her because she's no bread. She's at no Bread.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Oh yeah, right, no bread, at No Bread. Nicole Kogan.
That's her last name.

Speaker 2 (02:53):
And it's written free person.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
I appreciate her. Yeah, yeah, she's good. If you guys
are looking for dietary if anyone has or is gluten
free or all of these things, you can follow her
at No Bread on Instagram. She'll like that shout out yeah.
And then I come back. Well, I'm going on vacation
and then I come back in the fall and do
my debut performance, my fall debut performance at the Clubhouse

(03:15):
in East Hampton on August twenty sixth. By the way,
make sure you check out my tour dates everybody, because
I'm taking the summer off and then I'm going to
be back with a vengeance. Okay, guys, we have added
more shows to my Little Big Bitch tour because I'm
coming all over. We added a second show at the
Pantagius in Los Angeles. So that's October twelfth and Friday
the thirteenth, which is my favorite day of the week

(03:36):
or the year, I guess we added a second show
in Boston at the Waging Center September twenty ninth and
thirtieth is two shows in New York. I also have
a show in East Hampton, New York August twenty six.
We added a second show in Portland, So Thursday, November
tewod Friday November third, and Portland November fourth and fifth.
In San Francisco, two shows there. We added a second

(03:58):
show in Seattle November tenth and eleven. Two shows Boston
are November sixteenth and seventeenth at the Bach Center at
Wang Theater. And I'm also coming to Toronto and Montreal
and Ottawa and so many other cities Columbus, Cincinnati, Detroit, Louisville.

(04:20):
So I will see everybody at all of these shows.
Thank you. Get your tickets at Chelseahandler dot com. So
our guest is she has a new rum com actually
it's called The Perfect Fine. It is out on Netflix
June twenty third. She has a docuseriies called My Journey
to Fifty, which debuts on Beet June fifteenth. She is
the actress, producer, best selling author, and entrepreneur Gabrielle Union.

(04:44):
Oh my god, she's there. You made it helliy Hi, Gabrielle,
how are you beautiful? I'm good.

Speaker 5 (04:53):
Guy's a great. Where are you in the world.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
We're in the valley. Don't be jealous. Okay, we're right
around the corner, say.

Speaker 5 (05:00):
Bitch, like I am deep in the fucking valley.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
I'm like, oh, I wrote how deep?

Speaker 5 (05:05):
Oh deep, deep deep. We're like hidden hills.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
We're like, oh, are you with the Kardashian Do you
live with the Kardashians.

Speaker 5 (05:12):
I am right on the same street.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Oh wow, lucky you not upon you.

Speaker 5 (05:17):
Of course it's a shooting residence.

Speaker 1 (05:20):
But still, oh, I see copy that, yes, copy on
shooting residents. We need so many residences these days for
everything that everybody's shooting, don't we Well.

Speaker 5 (05:30):
It makes us relatable and and that's really what's important today.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
Totally totally. As soon as you say hidden hills, we
all know what's going on. It's so nice to speak
with you, Gabrielle. This is my co host Catherine.

Speaker 2 (05:44):
Hi. Oh, are you very good?

Speaker 1 (05:47):
And I wanted to just dive right into things because
one of the things I admire so much about you
is how outspoken you are about everything in your life
and everything that you've experienced with your family, with your career,
and I guess I want to ask you first off
about how your childhood impacted the way that you have
your family now. And our experiences are so different when

(06:10):
we become parents. So I'm curious because you're always learning
and growing and you're dealing with a non traditional family
that's blended, right, which is basically the new tradition. So
tell me, like, how you learn and grow as the
head of a family like that with you and your husband.

Speaker 5 (06:27):
Yeah, no, I mean, it's a process and it keeps changing.
But my ability to sort of weather those changes in
those constant evolutions comes from childhood. I come from a
family on my mom's side, the larger family is called
the Dozens of Cousins, and we have the largest black
family in the state of Nebraska and one of the
largest in the Midwest. And you're literally related to everyone,

(06:49):
and your business is their business, and if somebody sees
you on the street causing mischief, as one might say,
they are completely within their rights to smack the shit
out you. That was kind of how I grew up,
where your village was large and vast, and on my
dad's side, like both My parents are one of seven.
My dad's the youngest of seven, my mom's the oldest

(07:11):
of seven. And you are your brothers and sisters keepers.
That's just what it is. And my brothers and sisters
that could mean your actual siblings, siblings, or your extended family,
your community. You have responsibilities that are much much greater
than just you know, taking care of yourself. So that
was what I grew up. And we always had cousins, aunts, uncles,

(07:33):
everyone like would come to our house when they were
having you know, some troubled times or whatever, and they'd
stay for a couple of months. Or they'd send their
kid who was having disciplinary issues to my dad and
he'd straight them out, and you'd call it camp union
and we're like, don't come to camp union.

Speaker 4 (07:50):
It sucks.

Speaker 5 (07:51):
But they've just kept sending kids. So you just kind
of figured it out. You'd wake up and there'd be
a couple extra cousins there, and you know, you had
to figure out how to share service. Cereal and that
I've just sort of taken that into life. You do
what is necessary to cover as many people as possible.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
That's beautiful.

Speaker 5 (08:08):
That was so like controversial until oh.

Speaker 1 (08:12):
I tell you guys just talked about splitting shit fifty
to fifty?

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Right?

Speaker 1 (08:15):
Is that the big thing?

Speaker 5 (08:17):
Oh my god, I hadn't. Honestly, it wasn't even that
wasn't even the point of what I was talking about.
It was how feeling like you need to take care
of everyone can be fucking stressful, like incredibly stressful, not resentful,
not anything else, though that has percolated in my body
at times. But I was just talking about how it
can be incredibly stressful when you are the answer to

(08:40):
everyone's problems, and because you know, everyone's like, but your
husband has money, and it's like, yeah, he has money,
and he should keep his money. I don't need that
part of him to make me complete. And maybe knowing
that he could cover me if if need be makes
it easier to then set a different boundary where I'm like, no,
I'm paying half because that's what makes me comfortable. But yeah,

(09:03):
I was talking about, like I'm stressed. It's hard being
head of household for multiple households outside of the one
you're living in. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Right, so you were talking about splitting Wait, what was
the confusion? You were talking about splitting something fifty to
fifty that you like to split your economics fifty to fifty.
And then what were people saying? What was their problem?

Speaker 6 (09:24):
Now?

Speaker 5 (09:24):
They were outraged that I would even want to split
a bill, that my husband isn't forcing me to allow
him to pay my bills, or he just has so
much more than I do. I'm a damn fool for
even like looking at towards my purse or my checkbook like,
I'm a stupid idiot for even wanting to pay half.

(09:48):
And it was an eye opening conversation because I was like,
it's like if someone said, yo, I write checks and
somebody else was like, oh, I do direct deposit? No,
why why write a track? I go into the bank myself?
What the fuck? Wh what? Oh? You guys are legitimately
this is week two of this show.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
It just speaks to the patriarchy such bullshit where people
think that they're fucking with it and they know what's
going on. Yet these ideas are so old and stagnated
and stuck in their heads that the idea of a
woman wanting to pay for herself is so anathema to
so many people. It's like when I talk about not
wanting children, the iyre the anger I receive for men

(10:31):
who don't have anything to do with me. What the
fuck do you care what I'm doing? Why would it
make you so mad unless you had such a rock
stuck in your head about a belief system that is
starting to kind of you know shed.

Speaker 5 (10:44):
It was funny because we in our group chat, we
had we covered your your comments and everyone was like,
I don't really even see. It was the quickest debate,
non debate that we had in our group chat. Everyone's like,
I don't if she doesn't want to have kids, who cares?
What does that have to do with me? And I
was like nothing and they were like okay, moving on.
So it was a very quick discussion that we had

(11:04):
and it was like what you ate, don't make me shit?
Literally literally, like it has nothing to do with anything.
But what I will say is I remembered feeling very
triggered in a cluster of moms who made other choices,
different choices than I made, and feeling like them talking
about their lives and their joys and their decisions somehow

(11:29):
was an attack on me, and that I'm a bad
mom because I work, or I'm a bad mom because
I can't make it to you know, certain things and
they weren't even looking in my direction. They weren't They
could have given two foughs about me. It was everything
I was taking in because I hadn't made peace with
my choice. So that's what it sort of felt like
with this. It was like, if you feel triggered to

(11:52):
such a degree where you're going to do a whole
TikTok or a stitch or a real child, what maybe
that's not even that this conversation is between you and I.
It's between you and yourself, because what about how I
pay my bills even causes any kind of reaction for you?
Then I don't think it has with me because I'm

(12:13):
a faling stranger. But also, yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
It's also there's like the argument, you know, there's men
and there's women, and there's this kind of dynamic that's shifting,
and that's scaring a lot of old white guys about
powerful women, people not having a nuclear family, women working
God forbid, you know, everyone getting educated. But I also
the discussion is of women supporting women right like they

(12:37):
like to divide us too, and they've been very successful
at dividing women. This whole system of patriarchy that has
been in place since for so long, because before the patriarchy,
there was a patriarchy where women were in charge, you know,
and maybe if it had stayed that way, we would
our planet would it be on fire? And women now
are starting to understand, oh, it's not our job to
judge each other either. We need to support each other

(12:59):
if we're ever gonna win this quote unquote war. I
hate to say the word war, but that's what it
feels like. A culture clash and a culture war where
things are evolving, but now women are, it feels and
I know it too because I catch myself instead of
judging someone, I'm like, oh, oh, that's another woman. I'm
here for support. I'm not here to say she did
the wrong thing. I would have handled that differently. Who
gives a shit how you would have handled it? You're

(13:21):
not her?

Speaker 5 (13:22):
And no one asked, Yeah, and not exactly, especially her,
She didn't ask. But it's that feeling of wanting to
be accepted through saneness right with me and everyone I
know are making the exact same decisions, then we are
right because just look at the sheer numbers of us
doing the exact same thing. But if someone comes in
to do something just different. There's billions of people in

(13:45):
the world, which means there's billions of ways of getting
from A to Z, right, so what about someone doing
something different just makes us feel so fearful or judged
or observed or surveilled or attacked when people are just
talking about their choices and it really doesn't have anything
to do with or it shouldn't have anything to do

(14:06):
with how you walk into your home and how you
and your family get down, Like that has literally nothing
to do with me, and if you're making it about me,
then let's lookay, let's have the conversation. This one dude
was like, you know, a beautifully done stitch. I mean,
the production quality was phenomenal, the music supervisor was amazing,

(14:27):
but he was like, you know, at the end of
this stitch was like, Gabrielle Union, no one cares. I
don't care. And I was like, but look at you
caring injury with this whole ass damn for real. And
then for some reason it didn't send, and I was like, Okay,
because perhaps I am getting triggered that I'm not comfortable

(14:50):
with my decisions and I need to be in a
place of complete comfort that no matter what anyone else
says about anything that I do, it rolls off, and
sometimes it rolls off and sometimes it doesn't. And I'm
going to have a sassy little response.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, and well that's I mean, that's part of it.
And as you do as would I. I'm not going
to lie there and not say anything half the time,
you know, And then sometimes you got to I was
sending the email this morning. I got an email from
my attorney about this like lawsuit that I'm in. That's
so annoying. And I reacted right away. I'm like, you
know what, tell them forget mediation and this is what
needs to happen. And I was writing, and I'm like,

(15:26):
you're in a reactive mode. Why don't you just calm
down and wait till you get home and see if
you still want to send this. And you know, I
get home and I look down and I was like, oh,
what was I doing? Like it was only ten minutes ago.
But you know, as you get older, we catch ourselves
doing more and more when you're self examining and you
have self awareness and you desire to get to know
your inner self, and the work we do on ourselves

(15:47):
really results when we're in our forties and fifties. I
know you're celebrating. You just celebrated your fiftieth. Right, it's passed.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
Yeah, it passed. It's in October, right, Okay, so.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
You had a big party and you filmed it. Right,
it's a two part docuseries on b ET Right that's
coming out in June.

Speaker 6 (16:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:04):
I wanted to go back to Africa and take as
many people as possible and hit as many countries as possible,
as far as my little wallet could go.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
I think I got a bill for that too, and
I think we're going three ways.

Speaker 5 (16:18):
Oh Jesus. But yes, we started. We hit the Zanzibar
and Kraghana and we're in Namibia, and we went to
joe Berg and Sueto and Cape Town in South Africa
with just a roving band of my friends and family
and extended family, immediate family, and it was incredible. And

(16:39):
I was somewhere like as we were planning it, I
was like, I kind of feel like we should document this.
I don't know what we're going to do with it,
but I want this footage. I want to see what
my mom looks like growing up in Omaha, Nebraska, setting
foot back in the motherland. Where you can actually create
ties that had been denied us and had you know
that we've been ripped away from the and I wanted

(17:00):
to see that. I wanted to always have that. I mean,
she's seventy six now. And then I was like, wait, well,
I want to see what my daughter looks like. You know,
at that time she was three three going to Africa
and being embraced by a whole continent of people that
look like her. And then that turned into a docuseries,
two part docuseries for b ET plus.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Well, that sounds like a lot of fun. I thank you.
What is so obvious from your socials? You and your
husband are so vibrant and so happy and at peace,
and I think that speaks to an enlightening. You know,
you can see when people are enlightened that they live
with a different vibrancy, when you see that people have
been challenged, have had their thinking challenged, and come out
the other side, which is the way that the whole

(17:43):
world would ideally operate. Instead of having any sort of discrimination,
we just go at everybody with love. Everyone should be
treated equal, not just a certain section of people. So
I think that, like, what do you attribute the success
of your relationship with because the two of you have
have something great going obviously, what do you think about that?

Speaker 5 (18:02):
I think it's a choice every day. And I've heard
this before and I'm like, fuck off, but it really
legit is. It's a choice every day to show up
and to be kind and to be there physically there,
and to consider the other person truly and deeply and completely,
not just when it's convenient for me, and to not

(18:24):
look at our marriage or the moves in our marriage
as pieces in a chessboard where one of us is
going to win and one of us is going to lose, right,
and I damn well better be the winner. We just
make a choice to do better by each other every
day than the day before. And it's somehow working. One
of my therapists, it's hard to really discern which one
it is, just a but one said, the greatest gift

(18:47):
that we can give ourselves in each other is constantly
modifying your expectations, right, And he's like, we have expectations
of strangers we don't know, we don't know what their
lives entail, but our expectations are huge expectations. And what
you can do at any point is just bring those
on down to a reasonable place, right where if there's
someone that you work with or a friend, and you

(19:09):
know they're quite consistent in their fuckery, but we still
have these expectations that are this big for those people
when we know, damn well, the only person's going to
be disappointed and annoyed is us. So just constantly reshaping expectations.
And the more we learn and the more we offer
grace and consideration, you know, maybe now it's time for
harder conversations that I'd never I would have never thought

(19:32):
to have. I would have just been pissed. And then
when my ragie rage goes, then the anxiety is up,
and then everything is just like I wish them, we'll
just stay in this place and it's exhausting. And at fifty,
I'm tired. I don't want to I don't want to
live like that. I don't want to love. That feels
like a fierce competition, which is kind of goes back

(19:53):
to the fifty to fifty thing. He said in an interview.
I was I was listening, I was eavesdropping that was
and he was talking about our house in Miami. Well,
see how I said our house, And this man said oh, no,
my house. And I was like, I picked out this house.
I like like I was, I was instrumental in the

(20:13):
way this house looked like even finding the damn house.
And I was like, oh, never again, bitch, Like, never,
never again will I be in this position, And I'm
talking to myself, I'm the bitch here. Never again will
I be in a position where someone can say our
communal home is singularly owned. So after that, I mean,
this is like maybe a couple of years into our marriage.
So after that, anything else we bought, it was fifty

(20:36):
to fifty. And if our budget has to go lower
because of my black actress salary, then it's just going
to go a little lower. So we can both contribute
fifty to fifty. And I think the more he recognized
the peace that I have in always wanting to offer
fifty percent emotionally, you know, and a lot of relationships
we've been one hundred and ten percent, and we wonder

(20:58):
why we like I can't stand to see you come
because I'm doing all of the emotional labor, the physical labor.
No one's coming to save me from this situation. If
you're supposed to be the prince, No I need a
different fairy tale. This is not working for me. So
in the second marriage, after that comment, I was like, oh,
I can build my own fairy tale. They can look

(21:19):
however the fuck I want it to look, and I'm
gonna do that. And then he was like bet okay,
uh how about And we just started communicating what the
hell I've never done it? And the fact that like
people say it and you're like okay, But to truly
communicate and to hear each other and to listen and
not listen for my witty comeback which I like to do,

(21:42):
to really hear him and allow for a space of
vulnerability that has never existed in my life. And I
thought that was being strong. And I'm just trying new
shit at this point because the old way is not working.
Didn't work for my parents, didn't work for my grand parents,
didn't work for their parents. So doing the same shit

(22:03):
over and over again just sounds like madness. And I
want PEACEE.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
What do you want peace? I could tell you want
peace and you're and you're getting it. I feel like
you're getting peace in parcels. I feel like we all
are as we grow, you know, we start to understand
that piece is from within, and then we start to
understand our role and everything and how we can be
calmer and braver and more loving and all of the things.
And it's a nice awakening to keep happening, you know,

(22:28):
as we get older. What do you have to say
about a nine year age difference? What's that like?

Speaker 5 (22:32):
You know, at first it wasn't because he you know,
he was a teen parent. You know, he had his
first kid as a teenager. He moved out of his
family's home at fifteen, so he was a different kind
of twenty five year old when I met him, and
I was a clueless, wild, wild animal that probably needed

(22:53):
more nurturing than I was willing to admit, and he
definitely needed more fun. So at the time, it was like,
I'm going to bring the fun. We're going to have
fun as adventures. But along with that fun, I was
lacking in care. Someone to do that, to be caring
and nurturing and compassionate, and we kind of provided that
for each other. So the age range wasn't an issue

(23:16):
until when the Big Three came together in Miami and
Lebron's family sat in front of us, and so I
was like the first time I really got to meet
Glow Gloria Gloria James Lebron's mom, and I realized that
she was a senior when I was like a sophomore. Yeah,
and then when I realized I was older in fact,

(23:37):
then a lot of his teammates' parents and I had
a lot more in common with the coaches. In fact,
one of the coaches was like, we had a basketball
tournament in high school. We were at the same tournament. Yeah,
So those kind of things are like, oh, I want
to go to a concert. I want to go see
Holland Oates and Earth Wind and Fire, the Whispers, perhaps

(23:57):
the Spinners, And he wants to go to dre And I'm.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Like, oh, that's funny. That would be my reaction too.
I'm like, oh shit, I'm too old for this shit,
Like I.

Speaker 5 (24:10):
Want jazz best, you know what I mean. And he's
looking for like the Budweiser super Fast. So yeah, it's
like musically, it kind of is a thing some of
our friends and where we're at in life can be
a little different, but when we're home. Yeah, I think
he just experienced a lot in his childhood that I
didn't even start to have any kind of understanding for

(24:32):
until I was over forty that he had to intimately
understand at six. So I think due to life experience,
it kind of balance it out. But yeah, right now
when I wake well, Now, first of all, the fact
that sleep number has literally changed our lives, change our marriage.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
I'm so happy to hear that. What an easy thing.

Speaker 5 (24:54):
You know, hot it is like at night, and he's
the lady.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
I know how fucking hot it is. I keep my
air conditioning at six sixty six degrees at night. Now,
oh my god.

Speaker 5 (25:02):
Well, like he's always hot, so he likes it super cold.
I'm randomly hot and cold depending so like I can
set my core temperature to like very chilly, but my
feet toasty. And the fact that like I could have
one side with my legs up, because you know, inflammation
overnight is a killer. I got to reduce my risk
of stroke and heart attack.

Speaker 1 (25:23):
Every night.

Speaker 5 (25:26):
He's in his forty one year old slumber. So those
kinds of things where like, you know, he jokes, I
thought I had more time when you know, I can't
remember shit.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
You know, Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and
then we're gonna come back and we're gonna take a
couple of callers. Okay, and we're gonna give life advice
to real people. Oh jesus, yeah, you better get your
therapist cap on, girl, it's about to happen. All right,
we'll be right back, and we're back.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
We're back.

Speaker 5 (25:54):
Well.

Speaker 2 (25:54):
Our first question deals with some fertility stuff. Ky, says
dear Chelsea out, hoping you can give me a nudge.
I'm forty three years old. Much like the gorgeous Monica
Padman you had on a while back. I've been mysteriously
single pretty much all of my life. I'm pretty funny, creative,
a good friend, well traveled. I've had my own business
for sixteen years, et cetera, et cetera. I've done all

(26:16):
sorts of therapy around this singleness and can't seem to
define it or move through it anyway. Three years ago,
when I turned forty, I decided to try and have
a baby on my own. My thinking there was I
have plenty of time to fall in love and only
a finite time to have a baby, which was really
running out. I work for myself, have a strong support
network and my own condo. If anyone can do it,

(26:36):
I can.

Speaker 6 (26:37):
Well.

Speaker 2 (26:37):
The last three years have been grueling, many many, many
rounds of unsuccessful IVF despite a good prognosis, three pretty
devastating riskcarriages on top of the pandemic, living alone, paying
for it all on my own, and having some pretty
dark moments, I'm drawing a line in the sand. However,
my younger sister, who has had a baby i e.
Is fertile, has offered me her eggs. She's thirty eight.

(27:00):
Has been on the table for a while, so I've
processed the whole idea of this, and I'm fine with
the potential baby not being from my exact egg. But
I'm just so tired and traumatized and disillusioned and confused.
On one hand, calling it quits on the baby IVF
journey means I get my mind and my body back,
and I can focus on building my business up again,
being a good friend's sister, auntie daughter, work on creative projects,

(27:23):
traveling and potentially living overseas part time, and working out
why the fuck I'm single and trying to get over
this massive block. But then the idea that I won't
ever have a child just makes me so sad, and
I wonder if my excitement about all of the above
is just that idea of being released from three years
of failure, money going down the drain, having invasive procedures
every other month, all for nothing, and maybe I just

(27:43):
need to give it one last push. It's also annoying.
I see virtue and goodness and happiness and grief and
sadness in both paths. Most decisions are like doorways. You
can walk back through it if it doesn't work out.
But this is not a door you can walk back through.
My sister's getting older, too, so I can't sit on
it for too long.

Speaker 5 (28:01):
Help.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
I'm really confused and tired. Lots of love.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
K fuck, that was like a journal entry.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
I know a lot going on.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Okay, Well, Gabrielle, like, I'm gonna let you go first,
because I know you have experience with this.

Speaker 5 (28:14):
Yeah, and it's heartbreaking and it's exhausting. It is financially
incredibly draining. And I'm saying this as someone who has means.
It is expensive and it can devastate your financial outlook
for a while to come. I mean, I know plenty
of people who have got the baby, but their finances

(28:34):
never recovered from their fertility journey. First, I would say,
are we sure it's your eggs. A lot of times
they automatically just assume your eggs are just too old
at forty three. But it could be some other factor.
It could be your donor sperm. It could be how
your egg and that donor sperm come together in your body.
Your your uterus could actually be like a more of

(28:55):
a hostile environment. So there's other tests that you can do.
You can look into rheumatologists to see if there's other
reasons for the miscarriages. There's other specialists that can also
chime in outside of fertility specialists. So if you wanted
to just for your own peace of mind, you know
there's other medical routes you can go. But the way
you kind of describe life, what life could be if

(29:17):
you ought to let this go, that sounds like a
really pretty high quality life where some of your other
dreams are coming true and you're still being able to
stay true to your heart and get it that. I
like that she talked about wanting to like do some
deeper self excavation and see what else is going on there,

(29:37):
but also listen, if it's one of those things that
you're just never going to be able to make peace with,
then I say exhaust every option. But when you feel it,
your body and your brain will give you that this
is it. And if you already got that and now
it's just a matter of having peace with it, there's
so many great therapists that can help you make peace

(30:00):
with moving towards whatever's next.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Yeah, I would say, I would say to this woman,
it sounds like you are so so married to the
idea of having a baby. And to piggyback on what
Gabrielle says, I think you should definitely take your sister
up on her offer of an egg to see if
you have a better situation and a better result from that.
I think you should exhaust all possibilities if you want this.

(30:25):
This is just one more thing. You're already so far
down the road of it. I think you should give
it one more shot with your sister's egg, because that
could be a miracle waiting to happen, you know, and
maybe there will be different for biochemistry physiology with that
egg and the sperm and all of the other things
that were just mentioned. And then if that doesn't happen,
I don't think you should stay on this path interminably.

(30:47):
I think you do want to get yourself together and
get into therapy and start to really kind of capture
all of the other beautiful things you're going to be
able to contribute to this world by not having to
raise a child, you know. But I wouldn't give up
just yet. I feel like there's still hope left in
your story. So that's my two cents.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, And you just don't know what's coming down the pike,
like she spent so much time focused on sort of
why am I single? Like, you don't know if maybe
that means you're going to meet someone who has a
five year old that you then become like another mom too,
or you know, maybe adoption or fostering is in her future.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
And also just you know, I know you've had multiple miscarriages,
but that is a very familiar story too. A lot
of women miscarry multiple times before they do get pregnant,
and so it's not hopeless always in every situation. Obviously
I don't know your medical history, but there are so
many stories that happened to my sister, It's happened to
so many of my friends. So don't give up hope

(31:40):
until you're you know, you're you're ready to exhaust your
hope and you're not ready. I can tell by the
tone of your letter. So just keep trying and then
you know, let us know what happens. Please, And you.

Speaker 5 (31:50):
And your sister need to go to therapy before you
agree to take her eggs. Good idea, that old different
set of sisterly bonding and who I don't even know
what the right word is. You guys have to work
through all of it because it can be a bit
of a brain twister of mind. It's a mind fuck,
you know. And your sister may have feelings once the

(32:11):
child arrives that may not be in alignment with how
you want to raise your children.

Speaker 4 (32:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (32:17):
Yeah, So all of this needs to be talked about
ahead of you accepting her eggs. So everyone's clearly on
the same page and there's a path forward in case
there's any hiccups.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yeah, that's good preventive and more prophylactic prophylactic therapy.

Speaker 2 (32:31):
Yes. Well, our first caller today is Stacy dear Chelsea.
I'm a twenty seven year old woman getting married later
this year. I got engaged in January and immediately started planning.
I chose my bridal party the night I got engaged.
For context, I moved to a new city a couple
of years ago, and the friend in this scenario that
she's talking about is one I made through work. We

(32:53):
got closed pretty quickly. This friend was one that I
contacted immediately to tell her I was engaged and asked
her to be my bridal party. But over the last
few months, I've come to realize that this woman is
not someone I want standing at the altar with me.
She's extremely judgmental and often in opposition to me whenever
I have conversations with her about my career, finances, even
my relationship. On three separate occasions, she's asked me, do

(33:17):
you really want to get married to this man? Not
because she has problems with my fiance, but just because
she personally doesn't believe I'm old enough to get married.
Time and again she makes it clear to me that
she doesn't think I'm mature enough to make my own decisions.
I believe that she thinks, because she's thirty one and
I'm twenty seven, that she knows better than I do.
But she, on more than one occasion, has told me

(33:37):
I'm her therapist and will constantly treat the time we
share together as if she's in therapy. She's always asking
me for advice, but somehow thinks I'm not mature enough
to make my own choices. I'm trying to figure out
the best way to tell her she's not in my
bridal party an wed.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Fuck.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
I don't want it to seem like it's out of
nowhere when I tell her, but I'm absolutely positive I
don't want her in my bridal party, and I'm worried
it will cause a huge argument. Any help you can
provide is appreciated. Love the Show can't wait to hear
what you think. Stacy.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
Hi, Stacy, Hi, Stacy. Hello, Hi, you're raised with Gabrielle
Union today. She's our guest today.

Speaker 4 (34:15):
Oh my gosh, hello Gabrielle.

Speaker 6 (34:18):
Hi.

Speaker 5 (34:19):
Question, is that friend married?

Speaker 4 (34:22):
No, she's not surprised.

Speaker 5 (34:26):
Are you sure? She's just not afraid of being left
behind in her mind that she's going to be left behind,
which is why she suddenly had issues about your pending nuptials.

Speaker 7 (34:36):
You know, that's crossed my mind because then that kind
of would make her like one of my only single friends.
And you know, like people get scared that people get
caught up in their relationships and kind of neglect their friendships,
So I think that there may be some of that happening.

Speaker 5 (34:53):
Has she had any successful long term relationships?

Speaker 4 (34:58):
She's had one that I know.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
So she's going to be a part of the bridal party,
but you're trying to demote her. So you want her
to come to the wedding, but you don't want her
to be in the bridal party. Is that accurate?

Speaker 4 (35:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (35:08):
I do because I would like her there, but just
after everything she said and like being judgmental and like
unsupportive in me wanting to get married, I just feel
like that's not someone I want to up there with me.

Speaker 4 (35:20):
I don't know. And now I'm like, do I even
want her at the wedding? Good question?

Speaker 1 (35:24):
So but well, I mean if you get her, if
you if she do a season desist, she's not gonna
be your friend anymore. Is that what you're looking for?
Because it's really hard to make this move without ruining
a friendship exactly.

Speaker 7 (35:36):
And that's something that I've gone over in my mind,
and I think it would be okay if the friendship ended,
just because like it hasn't made the longest friendship. I've
only known her for a couple of years. We're close
but not too close.

Speaker 2 (35:52):
Do you still work together kind of?

Speaker 1 (35:54):
So she very vague all this information, it's very vague.

Speaker 7 (35:58):
I know she like fills in at different clinics, So
sometimes she'll fill in at my clinic. Sometimes she won't.
She's in school right now, so she's not working a lot.
But sometimes when she does work, she does fill in
at my clinic, but it's not very often.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Okay, Well, it sounds like if the relationship ends, you'll
be okay with it. And with that knowledge, I think
it's important for you. You absolutely do not want someone
standing up next to you when you get married, right, Gabrielle,
that feels that way about you.

Speaker 5 (36:24):
Ill, No, you don't want them in the building. Why
would you want that kind of negative energy in the building.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
No, I've heard, Gabrielle. I've heard you talk about when
people come over to your house, you have an energy
and a vibe in your house, don't fuck it up
when you come over, And that's how you should feel
about your wedding.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
Yeah, that's true. Absolutely.

Speaker 7 (36:40):
So I'm like you, guys, I wouldn't really want her
at the wedding, you know, just with everything she said
and how she feels.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Well, I think you can give her an opportunity to
recognize what she did. I think you can write her
a really nice email and say, hey, listen, I've been
thinking about my wedding and I've been really meditating on it,
whatever your form of you know, reflection is, and I
think it doesn't appropriate to have anyone that's not fully
wedding positive and happy about our union to be standing
up there with me. I would still love for you

(37:08):
to come to the wedding if you want to support us,
but I don't need you in the bridal party. And
you know you can make this not nasty, you can
make this loving, but that it's really coming from what
you need on your wedding day. You want to feel safe,
secure and surrounded by love and good vibrations, and that's
what you're after. And if she can bring that, then
she's totally welcome to come to the wedding, but she's

(37:29):
not going to be in the wedding party.

Speaker 8 (37:31):
Here's a question for you.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
Has she bought her dress yet?

Speaker 4 (37:35):
I don't think so.

Speaker 7 (37:36):
She was telling me she has a dress that she
wears to like a lot of weddings, that it just
happens to fit the color and my color is burgundy.
Then I'm having everyone wearing her dress is burgundy. She's like, oh,
probably just wear that one. So she already has that
in her closet. She's like, I'll probably just wear that one.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Do you feel comfortable writing a letter like that. I do,
because it seems like you kind of want to.

Speaker 4 (38:00):
I'm trying to.

Speaker 7 (38:01):
Get better at doing that and communicating with people like, Okay,
this isn't working for me.

Speaker 4 (38:06):
We need to do something about this.

Speaker 7 (38:08):
So I think, yeah, communicating it in a loving and
like I still respect you, like I don't want to
buck shit to you or anything like that. But I
think that's kind of the vibe I was going for,
because yeah, I don't want to be rude or mean
to her, but yeah, like you said, I don't want
any negative energy.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
After wedding, and you have every right to say that
to anybody.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
That's true. True.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
So write her a nice email and then you know,
follow up with her, and if she can't take the feedback,
maybe she'll surprise you, and maybe she'll be like, oh
my god, I'm so sorry. I hadn't even been thinking
about how negatively I've been coming across you know, And
then that would be a nice surprise, little rainbow. But
if that doesn't happen, you're already okay with the results
of not having that friendship. So I think you should

(38:50):
just be prepared and open minded for whatever happens. But
speak your truth because that's the most important element here,
is you saying what you need for on your like
special day.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Yeah, I think preparing for Like you mentioned, you think
it might be a blow up, which I love the email,
so it's not like she can't get into it with
you right then. But if she does have a negative
reaction and sends you some like email with a lot
of capital utters and all that sort of thing, maybe
just agree with yourself now that you're not going to
respond to it right away or maybe even at all.

(39:19):
You know, maybe just like let it lie. She might
have some big feelings about it, and like you don't
need to take that on either and make it like
a back and forth.

Speaker 7 (39:27):
Yeah that's true, because I definitely can be very reactive,
So I think that sending it and then if she
emails back, just like letting it.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah, don't get into one of those ping pong things.
That's not ever good for anybody.

Speaker 5 (39:40):
Listen, or let her have it. Let her have it.
I think maybe she seems at a little slick on
the tongue there, and too many people have led her slide.
So sometimes somebody needs a little emotional too, piece little
pop pop.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Saying to someone who's getting married, are
you sure you want to get married multiple times? Isn't
supportive unless you're a fiance is an abuser, you know
what I mean? Like, it's just not appropriate. So that's
already negative.

Speaker 7 (40:08):
Exactly, And I that was just crazy that you would
say that in the first place, after she had been
appointed to a bridesmaid, Like, how are you gonna question
this when.

Speaker 4 (40:21):
I've already asked you to be a part of it.

Speaker 5 (40:24):
How does she know him?

Speaker 4 (40:26):
So?

Speaker 7 (40:26):
And that's the thing that is also a little confusing.
So she has met him maybe four times total.

Speaker 4 (40:33):
We've gone out for drinks once.

Speaker 7 (40:35):
She's just come over to the house before me and
her going out somewhere, and he's been there and they
talk and have a conversation and she is like, yeah, he's.

Speaker 4 (40:45):
A really personal guy.

Speaker 7 (40:47):
Like I like the way that you can leave the
room and that we can have a conversation, and like
he seems really nice and so I'm like, Okay, then
why are you pressing me so hard about like when
you're telling me that he's this great guy and he's
great for me, Like, what's why are you pressing me
so hard into why do you want to marry this man?

(41:08):
It's very confused.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
Yeah, that's just her own shit, you know what I mean?
A little yeah she is. Anyway, write that email and
keep us posted, let us know what happens.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
Okay, yes, I will, thank you Stacy and keep us posted.

Speaker 1 (41:22):
Okay, Thanks day, sat.

Speaker 5 (41:24):
Thank you, thank you, congratulations, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
I like when our callers are feisty and they're already
ready to go, you know, because some people are just
like not ready to have a confrontation or any conflict.
They're very conflict of verse and they're scared to like
make that point of entry where you have to have
the discussion with someone. But she seems like she's ready
to rumble.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, and she's like ready to lose this girl.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
Yeah exactly, Yeah, a little nudge. Yeah, that's problem solved.

Speaker 6 (41:55):
Well.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Our next caller is Sarah. Dear Chelsea, I love your
advice on a situation I've found myself in with a friend.
My friend, Becky, and I met in prenatal yoga class
in twenty nineteen. Both of our sons were born in
early twenty twenty, right before the pandemic started. We became
very close and would text almost every day. We'd get
together for stroller walks outside regularly for the first couple

(42:16):
of years of our kids' lives. Now, both of our
boys are three, and in the last year and a half,
her son has had issues with being a little aggressive
towards my son, pushing, etc. I've mostly brushed it off
as toddler behavior, but it keeps getting worse. The final
straw was recently when her son put my son in
a headlock and body slammed him. Yeah. I had told
her that we had to take a break from hanging

(42:37):
out with the boys because of it. I reiterated that
our friendship was important to me and that I'd still
be open to hanging out without the kids. But I
haven't heard back from her at all. Should I reach
out or should I just accept that my boundary has
ended our friendship. Thanks and love your show, Sarah. Tricky
one mom's stuff.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
I know it is tricky, especially when they're three years old.

Speaker 5 (42:57):
Right, They all do weird some aggressive things. They all
do it, whether they get your kid gets caught at
it more often than not. It's just they all do it.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Hi, Sarah, Hi, Hi, how are you?

Speaker 6 (43:10):
I'm good?

Speaker 5 (43:11):
Are you?

Speaker 1 (43:11):
We're good. This is Gabrielle. She's our special guest today.

Speaker 5 (43:15):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Hi. So your kid got it. You got thrown down
with a headlock by the other kid and you said,
whoopsie do it all. Let's take a break.

Speaker 6 (43:24):
Yeah, that's basically it.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
And you haven't heard from her. How long has it been.

Speaker 6 (43:29):
It's been about three months?

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Oh okay, Yeah. What do you think, Gabrielle.

Speaker 5 (43:35):
I think she's just embarrassed, because it's it's hard, like
when your kid does something and you're like, they did it,
like they just did it, and you know, especially if
the other person is really as they should. All moms
should advocate for their own kids and make sure your
own child is safe. And when you have to create
that boundary of like, I know, they're just kids, da
da da dah, but you know it's the aggression is

(43:57):
amping up, and I think we need to pump the
brakes just for a while bit and you know, let's
let them grow separately. Whatever you want to say, you know,
I'm sure you handled it with you know a lot
of tact and kindness, but it is it's embarrassing to
come back from that. I've you know, when our older
boys were younger, one of them did something that I
was like and I was so embarrased, like they did it,

(44:21):
like they just did it, Like there was I couldn't
like try to get out of it. They just did
it and I had to just sit there and take
that l and I did not want to. I was
trying to find someone else to like blame it on,
to like shift the focus. You're just being harder my kid,
But my kid did it, and it's sometimes it's really
hard to see like your little loved one, your a
little well chipbopy old block doing something that requires a

(44:43):
hard boundary and it's embarrassing. But that's part of life.
And I think you know you're in the right position.
You did everything correct and just say hey, I know
it was probably hard to hear, and it was even
harder to say, and you know your kid, it was
even harder for them to experience. But I think this
could be a great learning lesson and how do we

(45:03):
bounce back after poor behavior.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yeah, that's nice.

Speaker 5 (45:06):
And can we work on it together like you and
I and then you know, help apply that to our kids.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
But who sucks?

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Yeah, I think that's great advice. I mean there's no point.
I mean you can totally reach out now it's been
a while and send her a loving email or whatever
however you communicate, call, text, whatever you feel comfortable doing,
and if you don't hear back from her, then you
don't hear back from her. But there's always a point
in I think reaching out again to show people some
grace too, Yeah, because of course I'm sure she's embarrassed.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, and a specific invite might be helpful as well,
especially since some water is under the bridge, like rather
than let's get together sometime, like something that your boys
would not naturally go to, so like, hey, do you
want to catch a movie on Thursday? Or like you
want to grab a drink or dinner or something like
that that's understood to be mom time or like girls time.

Speaker 5 (45:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (45:55):
My other thing about it is with it being a summer,
we live in like a small city, and I'm starting
to feel like are we going to see them somewhere?

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Sure?

Speaker 6 (46:03):
So lately I'm like I need to reach out and
see something. Yeah, if I do see them, it's fine. Yeah,
you know, I don't want it to be awkward.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Yeah, that's the right thing, you know what you want
to do? Yeah, just not Yeah what I'm.

Speaker 6 (46:18):
Not quite sure what to say. So I think asking
to get together is probably the best thing. And if
she doesn't want to, she doesn't want to, maybe.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Yeah, and then if you do see her, go up,
you know, give her a hug, say it's nice to
see you, and like you can move on, but you
can make it not awkward in that situation. But just
like let her have her space after that, like.

Speaker 6 (46:37):
High end, right, Yeah, yeah, that's true.

Speaker 5 (46:41):
I always lead with something weird that Cop has done
or one of the other kids have done Cop for
whatever reason. She is just a glutton for punishment. But
like when you had to have that, like, hey, get
a little rough out there and you do the with
the tchuble in trying to make everyone feel like this
isn't the end of the world, but also handle your kid.
My kid is kind of suffering out there. When it's

(47:01):
time to kind of circle back. It's oh my god.
I felt so embarrassed. I felt like when I was
spoken to by the teacher, by whoever. I felt like
I was indicted as a bad mom because my kids
behaved poorly, And I just want you to know there's
no correlation. Mommy is hard, parenting is hard, and at
this age, they're testing their boundaries. And you know, I'm

(47:24):
so glad that I have a friend who's understanding as you.
So when are we gonna go get a drink?

Speaker 1 (47:30):
And you're gonna feel better after you reach out, regardless
of whether you hear back, because you're acting on your
higher path, you know what I mean. You're just acting
out of love and grace and you do care about her,
So there's nothing wrong with doing with reaching out at all.

Speaker 6 (47:43):
Okay, yeah, thank you. I think I just need a
little push.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Yeah, yeah, no problem, Good luck with everything.

Speaker 6 (47:49):
Thank you. Nice to see you all today.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Thanks so much, Sarah, take care, honey, bye bye.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
I definitely bit my cousin Timmy until he bled when
I was two years old, and his mom didn't speak
to my mom for two years.

Speaker 1 (48:02):
Oh yeah, that's so stupid. If your mother's fault that
you bid him, no, like she's training you to bite kids. No,
just I mean, it's just so ridiculous.

Speaker 5 (48:14):
Look, it's hard because you want to be angry with
the kid, but they're children. So then it's like, well,
who made you.

Speaker 1 (48:23):
That Sue's really in trouble?

Speaker 5 (48:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (48:26):
Yeah, Well let's take a quick break and we'll be
back with one question to wrap up.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Okay, okay, and we're back again. We all got just
steam it along.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
This question comes from Quentin. He's in his thirties. I've
been reluctant to write in as they carry a lot
of shame when it comes to this topic. I'm a
black queer musician and dancer from New York, now living
in Los Angeles. I've been dancing professionally for several years,
as well as developing a music project that merges me
I work as a modern dancer and vocalist. During that time,

(49:03):
I faced a lot of hardship, including two major surgeries,
one for my vocal cords and the other due to
a dance injury. Thankfully, I was able to produce and
release my first album in the fall of twenty twenty.
The work was well received. However, I'm still sort of
struggling as someone who's an artist and creator. How do
you remain resilient in your twenties and early thirties before
finding success, After working so hard on my craft and

(49:26):
putting in the work to break down barriers and gain access,
I can't help but feel defeated and like all of
my effort is fruitless. I have a great deal of
friends and colleagues who are starting to actualize their dreams
in major ways, and I hate being jealous of them.
It's really shitty feeling envious of those close to you.
How can I restore my faith and belief in a

(49:47):
dream I've had since childhood? What mechanisms do you employ
when you feel your talent is overlooked? And how do
you stay positive? Quentin, good one, Quentin, Yeah, that.

Speaker 4 (49:58):
Is a good one.

Speaker 5 (49:58):
I mean, in anyone who's you know has had these
moments of or years of self doubt.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
I think resiliency is actually the exact word, because being
resilient is part of being rejected and not giving up.
Being resilient is knowing that, Okay, while you're putting all
this effort forward like it will result in something, it
always does. It may not happen when you want it
or exactly in the shape that you wanted or have
envisioned it, but it is going to happen, and part
of being resilient is accepting that there are going to

(50:28):
be lows and that they're going to be highs, and
neither one of those things are going to last forever.
It's an ebb and flow, And in any creative career,
anyone you talk to will have thought about giving up
at some point, and it's the difference between the people
who do give up and the people who persevere. Gabrielle,
I'm sure that you feel similarly about rejection resilience, right.

Speaker 5 (50:50):
Oh, the sheer volume of nos hell knows hell No, not,
you bitch, like there's just there's there's so many it's
actually an unnatural amount of rejection that we experience in
this industry. But you know, those bills and those bills
need to be paid every month, and so I never
let myself get too low where I thought, Okay, I

(51:11):
have to stop even trying to do this now, Mike.
I had to take some different lateral moves, you know
what I mean, to just sustain myself financially. But I
never gave up. And the art that I that I
was able to create, that's ever green, that never goes away.
You created something out of out of everything that is

(51:34):
going to last a lifetime, and that is your fucking win.
And if you look at like each little thing as
a major accomplishment, it allows you to kind of put
everything in perspective. If you look at your you know
those moments where you're like, Okay, I'm going to take fountain,
but I don't know if I'm going to get the
lights right. Those days where you take fountain and it's
just green light, green light, green light, that's a fucking win.

(51:56):
That's a great day, like, and you kind of give
weight to them. Similarly, some of those rejections aren't going
to feel as massive. And also know that everyone you see,
the biggest stars have been rejected way more than you
could ever imagine. And it's just a matter, like Chelsea said,
of resilience, but also recognizing where the line of resilience

(52:20):
is and where self flagellation is and where abusive situations are.
Those are different things, and you have to figure out
with the therapist or trained professional where those different lines are.
Because a lot of times we will be drinking curdled
milk like it's fresh, and sometimes somebody we got to

(52:41):
say to ourselves, is this milk is spoiled, and I
need to move on to something that's not going to
kill me.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
I love when you talk about the artwork you've created
being evergreen, because we live in this culture of like, okay,
it's up on social media, all right, your Netflix special
came out, all right, what's next, what's next, what's the
next thing? But like this stuff that Quentin's creating. I
went to his website. It's gorgeous art. It's beautiful and
it and it's there, and you know, it's made a
little while ago, but that's okay, it's beautiful, So I

(53:09):
love it.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
You said you want to give a shout out to
his website totally.

Speaker 8 (53:11):
If you want to check out Quentin, you can find
him at nolychildmusic dot com.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
That's his website.

Speaker 8 (53:18):
It's sort of a mashup of like dance and singing
and poetry, and it's very ethereal and moody and really
really lovely.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Yeah. And I also think the other thing is, like,
you know, when you get rejected, Gabrielle, I don't know
how you face things like this, but if I if
I don't get something that I want, I have a
much different attitude than I did. When I was younger,
I would, you know, stop my feet, and I was
more of a brat and entitled. And now I'm like,
what's meant for me? Doesn't pass me? Like? It doesn't.
I don't look at it as a so defeatists or

(53:46):
like and listen the comparison game. You're not alone. You're
not the only person who feels envy. That is a
natural feeling that human beings have. It's called envy. It's
you know what I mean, Like, that's that's the human condition.
As long as you're not acting on your end, it's okay.
That's just a feeling. Don't let your feelings define who
you are. That's not your sense of self. No one
wants to feel jealous or envious, but that's the world

(54:08):
we live in with the comparison and contrasting with what
other people are doing. Try and really really focus on
what you're doing and try not to look around at
your competitors so much. It's just not a good equation
and nobody comes out feeling great after that. So you know,
take pride in which you work and really level it
up so that you are beaming. You know what I

(54:28):
mean that you're giving off vibes that everyone wants to
be attracted to, and that when something doesn't work out,
it's just the water off a ducts back, you know,
and then you're closer to the next thing that is
going to work out. And so I think you just
change your philosophy.

Speaker 5 (54:43):
The things you're comparing yourself to may or may not
be real just because just because somebody posts it, or
just because there's an announcement. How many times have you
announced a project and people don't understand that development can
take vibors like and they're like, what, where's the where's
the where is the thing? Where the bring it on sequel?
Where do you guys been talking about it? It's like,

(55:04):
just because they say it we're working on it doesn't
mean that someone's so far out ahead of you. Or
there's this artist I found on social media years ago
and just again by chance, at least seven years later,
an agency, a big agency in LA that represents talent
has an artist kind of incubator and this artist work

(55:27):
is going to be in the incubator of showing in
Beverly Hills. And I was like, Mom, that girl that
I've we've been following, that I send you her work
she's going to be showing. So now I get to
meet this girl that was just some you know, this
internet artist that you know, I didn't think we were
ever our world would ever cross. I just really love
her work. You really have no idea how your work
is touching people and where it will intersect later. And

(55:51):
I'm going with a pocket full of cash ready to
buy everything because I'm just that into this.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
Well fifty to fifty Gabrielle. Yeah, you never know.

Speaker 5 (56:01):
Your art may be working some magic that you cannot
even fathom right now, but we'll pay off later in
a tremendous way.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Yeah that's very true. Yeah, Okay, well, thank you. So
you are a queen, Gabrielle. I want you to know
that I admire you. I love your energy, I love
your marriage. You guys belong together, it's so obvious. And
I love the family that you guys have and share,
and I just wish you the best. Thank you so
much for coming on and giving such sagacious advice.

Speaker 5 (56:30):
I am happy to be here, and thank you for
always being a cool chick. Everyone always gravitates towards you,
and there's a reason, and so I hope you owned it.
You're a life.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
You're so sweet. Thank you for saying that. I love that.
You made my day. You guys, this is so fun. Yeah,
so fun. Thank you so much for making the time appreciated, Gabrielle.

Speaker 5 (56:50):
Hi.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Guys, If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an
email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and
be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is
edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Katherine Law
and be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler
dot com