August 27, 2024 • 55 mins
Hey, Fellow Travelers. Liam has just come out to his family as a transgender man and begun hormone replacement therapy. His sister is getting married soon and he promised to be her Maid of Honor, and while he no longer feels comfortable wearing a dress, he also doesn't want to make things awkward for his sister and the rest of the family. We discuss his struggle over his gender expression and help him to see that being true to himself is what will ultimately make everyone most comfortable.
If you have a dilemma you’d like to discuss with us—big or small—email us at LoriAndGuy@iHeartMedia.com.
Follow us both online:
LoriGottlieb.com and on Twitter @LoriGottlieb1 and Instagram @lorigottlieb_author
GuyWinch.com and on Twitter @GuyWinch and Instagram @Guy Winch
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, fellow travelers. I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of
Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and I write the
Dear Therapist advice column for The Atlantic. And I'm Guy Wench.
I wrote Emotional First Aid, and I write a Dear
Guy column for Ted. And this is dea Therapists. This week,
a trans man deals with family pushback as he begins
transitioning right before his sister's wedding. My mother will go
(00:27):
march for gay rights and all of these things, but
you know, as soon as her son comes out to
her that he is part of the transgender community, that's
where issues start arising. And then it's like, Okay, well,
maybe you're not as accepting as you think that you are.
Listen in and maybe learn something about yourself in the process.
(00:49):
Dea Therapists is for informational purposes only, does not constitute
medical advice, and is not to substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis,
or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental
health professional, or other qualified health provider with any questions
you may have regarding a medical condition. By submitting a letter,
you are agreeing to let Ihart Media use it in
(01:10):
partter and fall, and we may edit it for length
and or clarity. Hey Laurie, Hey guy, Well, this week
our letter is time sensitive. Oh well, in that case,
let's get right to it. Indeed, let's do that, Dear therapists.
I come to you both begging for help on a
tough issue I'm facing. Last month, I came out to
(01:32):
my family as transgender and began my homeown replacement therapy
in the lengthy conversion of female to mail. My sister
is getting married, and because of COVID, the wedding was
postponed for months. The wedding was originally planned for April
and now will commence next month. I'm serving as my
sister's maid of honor, and I'm expected to wear a
(01:53):
dress and make up. I've suffered from body dysploria since
a young age, constantly covering up my body when swimming,
dressing more masculine, and it has been getting worse with
the wedding drawing closer. Finally allowing myself to wear what
I feel comfortable in has really made me so much happier,
and I feel like this wedding is throwing me back
into the old discord. I spoke to my sister about
(02:16):
alternative options, but she gave me an ultimatum. Wear the
dress and stand on her side, or wear the same
thing as the men and stand on his side. Standing
next to a slew of sisgendered males in nice formal
wear will only make my body dysphoria worse. I've spoken
to my other sister about the matter, but she does
not know what to do or have any suggestions besides
(02:37):
not being in the wedding altogether. Please let me know
if you have any advice or even something I can
do to try and ease my anxiety about this day
coming soon. The plan at the moment is to endure
the mental depression and to just do this one thing
for my sister, even though it's really taking a toll
on me. Liam. This is a really tough situation for
(02:59):
Liam A It's especially hard because I think that he's
an uncharted territory and I think that his family has
just gotten this news and they are trying to be supportive,
but Liam is not feeling supported, and it's hard for
(03:21):
them to communicate about what would make Liam feel supported.
We are at a place now in society where we're
recognizing that gender is not binary, and here Liam is
faced with a binary choice when he really doesn't want
to have to make a bindory choice one way or
the other at the moment. And so there's this very
literal translation of where society is in terms of coming
(03:43):
to terms with the fluidity of gender. I think you're
right that this really underlines how society has not caught up.
And you can see that on the smaller level within families,
where people say this is who I am and there
are no rules. People don't know what to do. And
(04:03):
I think that we need to help Liam to get
his voice heard. Here, let's go talk to him. You're
listening to Dia Therapists from iHeartRadio. We'll be back after
a quick break. I'm Lori Gottlieb and I'm Guy Wench
(04:24):
and this is Dia Therapists. So Hi Liam, Hi, Thank
you guys so much for having me, Thank you so
much for coming on. So Liam, we know this was
time sensitive. Tell us if there's been any development since
you wrote your letter. Yeah, absolutely so. Initially upon touching
(04:45):
on this subject, I feel as though I reached a
point where I kind of gave in to Yeah, I
will go with what you truly want and then we
kind of left it and I started to talk to
my other sister, Tina, and she really had no advice
(05:06):
on where to go. It was still bothering me. And
then it just so happened that my sister Sarah called,
and it kind of seemed like, oh, she called, let
me just lightly bring the subject back up, and at
the mere mention of the subject, she got very defensive
and very touchy. I reiterated that I was just trying
(05:26):
to have a conversation, but it was very clear her
frustration about it. It was I thought we dealt with
it already. I thought we had discussed what we were doing.
So I was met with a lot of emotion. So
Sarah's the one who's getting married, right, and what is
(05:48):
the birth order? Tina is the oldest, She's about seven
years my senior, and then Sarah's two years my senior,
and then I'm the youngest. Okay, And before this wedding
stuff came up, and before you told them that you
were transitioning, what was your relationship like with both of
your sisters. We had a bit of a rocky childhood,
(06:10):
so we got very close very quickly. I was closer
with Sarah because we shared a room for majority of
our childhood. I mean, we've always been really close. I
don't think there's a day that I go without speaking
to both of them. Tell us about the rockiness of
(06:31):
the childhood. We had abuse of parents, so we stuck
together through a lot of hard times. We constantly were
ripped out of our home, stayed with other people. Some
of our friends couldn't know where we lived, so that
was kind of hard. We kind of looked at Tina
like the mother sometimes, if you will. She did a
(06:54):
lot because she was the oldest. I think everything affected
her a little bit differently. She kind of looked took
on this leadership role and me and Sarah kind of
were waiting on her word, doing what she thought would
be best. When you say you were ripped from your home,
do you mean that child's services took you out of
the home. I don't want to say child's services ever came,
(07:18):
but family members would come. My aunt would come and
grab us and we'd stay at her house. A lot
of my best friends in school, they weren't allowed to
know whose house we were staying at, just in case
it were to get back to my father. But we
still went to the same school, so he was able
to come and he had lunch with me a couple
of times, so that I feel like alienated me a
(07:40):
little bit because I would be sitting at the lunch
table with my father crying at the end, while the
rest of my class was happy eating lunch, and they're like,
why is her Why is his dad coming and sitting
with them? And all they do is cry? Can you?
Can you tell us a little bit about your parents
and what might have been going on with them and
(08:02):
what kind of abuse you had to endure. The physical
abuse was towards my mother. We witnessed it and heard
it a lot. We often were the ones that had
to call the cops, so that was terrifying. We also
had family members that would stop us from calling the
cops and tell us to go back in our room
(08:25):
and everything was fine, So then we would have to
crawl on the floor to get to the phone to
call for help. We were in a really underdeveloped neighborhood,
so it wasn't like we could run to the neighbor's
house and go, you know, ask for help or anything
like that, so that kind of banded us all together.
I feel like, in unfortunate ways, there were other family
(08:47):
members living in the home. They were just visiting so
this and then told you not to intervene they would
be visiting. My maternal grandmother was majority of the time
the one to say, put the phone down, go to
your room. They're having a discussion your maternal grandmother. No,
I'm sorry, I think I misspoke my paternal grandmother. And
(09:09):
then because of that going on, my then maternal grandmother
came and stayed with us, kind of acting like a
guard dog almost to make sure that none of that
was going on with her daughter being involved. And at
what point did you leave the home the final time
that we left and did not come back. I was seven,
(09:31):
so that would make Sarah nine and Tina must have
been around fourteen. And where did you go? What happened?
We went to one of my aunt's houses. It was
in the same town. It wasn't too inconvenient, but that
was one of the addresses that I wasn't allowed to
have friends over, and we kind of all crammed in
(09:53):
this two bedroom house and tried to live as completely
normal as every thing was with your them, with my mother.
When did the body dysphoria start? Honestly, when I was
speaking to my mom about it the first time. The
way that I introduced the topic was, do you remember
(10:16):
when I was about five and every time I would
go in the pool, I would wear this giant T shirt.
Numerous times it was the reason that I would be drowning,
where it was like, why do you wear that? That's
not going to help you. You know, wearing a bathing
suit would be easier for you to swim in. So
I remember from a young age I was constantly covering
(10:38):
myself when I was going in the pool. Also, I
mean just dressing in general. I was always I was
very famous for wearing soccer shorts to school, the same
boyish outfits if you will. So, I would say, as
young as I can remember, around like five or six,
I was tending to cover up. How old are you Liam? Eight? Yeah?
(11:04):
So what was it about the last maybe year when
you decided you were ready to transition? I think the
biggest factors that allowed me to be true to myself
was that I just bought my first house this year,
so I have a perfectly safe environment. I have a
(11:26):
great job that I work for, amazing people that don't
treat me any different. They don't make me feel as
though I'm jeopardizing my job by being honest. So really
those main things is just having my shelter that I
don't have to worry about, and having my job that
isn't going to terminate me for any of these reasons.
(11:50):
When did you first start to realize that you were
transgender and when did you come out and how did
that go? I think I've always really known. I was
always wishing on my birthday candles that I was a
boy for as long as I can remember. I thought
(12:11):
that it was something that nothing could be done. I
just had to deal with it. I had to suppress it.
I had to come to terms with this is the
way I was born, this is the way I'm going
to die. There's really nothing you can do about it.
But really seriously got into the idea of transitioning back
in twenty fourteen. As soon as I got out of college.
(12:32):
I went to a big university, so it was very diverse.
I went to a lot of the LGBTQ community meetings,
met a lot of people through that, and twenty fourteen
I spoke to one friend about it, one person I
confided in and really expressed my true feelings and he
was great. He was amazing, and he encouraged me to
(12:56):
take the next step. I set up all of the
appointments that I needed to with the doctors, and to
be honest, at the last second, I just did not
go to any of them. At the time, when I
moved back from college, I was living with my mother again,
regrouping on where to go now. I just finished college.
What kind of career am I going into? And I
(13:19):
think by that pressure it kind of deterred me from
taking this route any sooner. When you say that pressure,
you mean you came home from college, you told your
mom and she didn't react. Well, I didn't tell anybody
back in twenty fourteen except that one friend. The one friend.
(13:40):
By skipping those appointments, I think that was me weaseling
out of actually addressing the issue and talking about it
with any of my family. So I recently just came
out to her last month, and she is legally deaf,
you realize, heavily on reading lips. We have a house
(14:04):
phone that when you call, it will type the dialogue
so that she can read it back. So I actually
had her come and stay with me, and I wanted
to have this conversation face to face with her. How
did that conversation go? So I explained to her about
the body dysphorius. Since I was young, you know, the
(14:27):
bathing suit, the covering up. I kind of was allowing
her to connect her own dots there. And as soon
as I said the words like I'm going to transition,
the first thing that she said was I knew you
were going to say that. In that moment, she told
me everything that I did want to hear. I still
(14:48):
love you. I will never cut you out of the
family or stop talking to you or stop loving you.
And I felt very relieved and very happy at that time.
She was actually the last person that I told. Even
though I have a great relationship with her, it was
the hardest because she was brought up very Catholic, and
(15:12):
I just was very unsure of how she would take it.
So I left the best relax. Have you discussed it since?
I mean, sometimes there's the coming out conversation and then
things get kind of shelled or ignored or dismissed. Has
it been discussed since with her? It has actually so
when she got back from the vacation here, it was
(15:32):
as if she flipped a switch. And everything she said
was null and void. She tried to talk me out
of it, as if it was something that one could
be talked out of. She told me that I need
to be true to who I am, in which case
I responded, I'm trying to be who I really am.
(15:53):
She asked why I had to alter my body with hormones,
why I have to look differently, ultimately pointing out that
my biological makeup isn't going to ever be the way
that I really truly want it to be. So hearing
all of that made me frustrated at first, because these
(16:15):
would have been things that I wanted to discuss face
to face. Again, she is deaf, so all of this
is being portrayed through text messages, which tone can be
interpreted differently, you know, out of context. And I really
didn't want to make her feel as though I was
attacking her or anything. But on the other hand, I
(16:36):
felt very attacked and very lied to. I felt like
she was saying that because she was in front of me,
not because she was really accepting and really loved me
and really didn't want me to feel alienated. You know,
what happens sometimes with parents in these situations is that
when she's face to face with you, she is in
(16:59):
that moment living how much she loves you and how
much she cares about you. And I believe that what
comes out in those moments can be more authentic because
she's with you. This is how she truly feels about you. Yes,
I want you to be happy. But then when she
goes home and you're not in front of her, then
she deals with the consequences of having to deal with
telling the people around her in the community and the
(17:21):
family knowing, and what feedback she will get from that,
And she starts to think about herself perhaps and what
she's going to say to people, how she's going to feel,
And then she takes a step back, And I think
what's important to remember is that you've had many, many
years to process this, and she needs a little bit
of time to go through that process as well. She's
(17:41):
hearing this for the first time, even though she's suspected
that's not the same as really processing it. I can
understand why you feel hurt, because what you want from
your parent is I'm really happy for you that you
are finally going to get to live in the way
that is true to you. Right and now, you get
to live who you actually are. She does have some
(18:05):
catching up to do, but at the same time, there's
this ticking clock of this wedding, and so I wonder
how your sisters since you told them first, how did
your sisters react? Who did you tell first, and how
did those conversations go and when? Yeah, so, honestly, this
was the second time that I've come out to my family.
(18:27):
I identified for the first twenty eight years of my
life as a lesbian. So the first time around, Tina
was the most accepting, and she was also the one
that was like, yeah, I know, it's okay. It's okay
that you finally are okay with it. That meant the
world to me. That made me feel exactly how I
(18:48):
feel she intended to make me feel. Sarah, on the
other hand, was very surprised, which it made me giggle.
It was funny because I'm like, you know me better
than anyone. We've shared a room for almost twenty years together,
and this is catching you off guard. But sure, all
very accepting about coming out as gay in high school.
(19:10):
The second time was harder for me, but I feel
like they were both very, very accepting, very supportive, and encouraging,
actually very encouraging. You came out to Sarah and Tatino?
When was that second time? A month ago? Okay, very recent? Yeah,
(19:35):
I wanted to tell them before I actually started my
hormone replacement therapy. I wanted to clear the air so
everybody would be on the same page. I anticipated needing
a lot of support, so I wanted everybody to be
caught up in well aware. Can I ask you who
else is there in your life that gives you support?
(19:56):
Plot twist? My father is actually a huge part of
my life. Now there is a plot twist. Yeah, I've
always considered myself like a well from before this point,
a daddy's girl. Right. I am very much my father's son.
I've connected through my childhood, even through all of the
horrible things that I've endured because of him, our relationship
(20:21):
now is truly better than ever when I came out
to him. My father is very open minded. When I
first told him that I have always felt like his son,
he responded to that by saying, I've always felt you
were my son, and he normalized it and made me
feel as though this was a realization that maybe I
(20:42):
was just coming to. But he had thought about before,
but he treated me with nothing but respect and love
and support. And it really caught me off guard because
I thought the reactions between my mother and father would
have been criss crossed if you would have asked me,
who was going to react? Which way? Can you fill
us in on what happened to once you moved out
(21:05):
and there was this abuse going on? How did you
reconcile with your father after that? There was a lot
of time that I didn't. There was a lot of
time that I would see him and I would give
him the silent treatment and the cold shoulder. Christmas would
come and go, my Birthday would come and go, and
I would have no contact with him, nothing, And those
(21:29):
were really what hurt me. So mostly I responded by
not speaking to him and kind of just pushing him
further away. Did you ever have a conversation as you
got older about the abuse and did he ever take
responsibility for it? I actually did the last time that
he was here. My whole family still resides in Florida,
(21:51):
so he came up here and we had been great
the entire time that he was here, but plans got
mixed up because of COVID and my mother was supposed
to come up as well, and my father was still here,
so they went ahead. The plan was that my father
was going to leave and before my mother came, so
(22:13):
there was going to be no overlap. Unbeknownst to me,
they went ahead and main plans in which my mother
was now coming up while my father was still here,
and then they were going to drive back to Florida
together while staying at my house for another seven days. Now,
I work an overnight job, so I tend to leave
(22:35):
my house at six pm and I don't get home
until around five thirty six am. So those feelings started
to resonate with me. Oh my gosh, my parents are
going to be alone in my house while I'm not there,
and all the memories started flooding back. Everything started making
(22:57):
me anxious, and I didn't feel like I really had
a say in it at all until I really sat
with my feelings and spoke to both of my sisters, like,
why are our parents acting like this is normal that
they're going to come and stay with me. That would
be perfectly normal if they were a couple and they
were still together, and you know, our childhood didn't happen.
(23:19):
But I feel like I was being extremely gaslighted into
thinking that this was not only okay but normal. I
hate to use that word safe. Safe is better? Yeah, absolutely,
So clearly they had been in touch and had some
kind of understanding. Were you aware of that? When I
addressed my mother, she told me your father and I
(23:43):
have had a relationship for the past two years. We're friends,
we know where we stand with each other, and then
she went on to say during the hurricanes, he stayed
at the house with me. Now, that was more than
I really needed to hear. I appreciate that they have
been honest throughout this entire thing, but it didn't ease
(24:04):
any of my anxiety or make me feel safe at all.
So what happened when you addressed it? Did that give
you an opening to have a conversation about the abuse
that had happened. When I told my mother I don't
feel okay with this, it was very well, we told
you about this, Well you were fine about this. Well
why is it a big deal now? And I persisted
(24:25):
to tell her it doesn't make me feel okay. I've
been very anxious. And then that led to just inevitably
my father being like, what's going on? You don't want
your mother to come up here very innocently, very you know,
testing the waters. And that was kind of just the
last straw, I would say. I went off on him
(24:45):
in the sense of saying, I think my opening remark
is I'm finished calling the police. I'm finished doing that.
I do not want to do that again. And he
was taken back by it, and the ball started rolling,
everything started coming out. I've told him how everything he's
(25:06):
done in the past had manipulated the way that I
turned out, and maybe he didn't realize it because he
wasn't around to see the effects that he had then
had on my life. I even apologized halfway through it, saying, look,
I'm sorry to dump all of this on you, but
you have been gone for almost twenty years. You never
had to sit here and listen to what has happened
(25:29):
to me, and you never got to hear what you
did to me. I have thrown all of that on
mom for the past twenty eight years. She has heard
everything because she was there. You weren't there. And I
told him how it felt that I was abandoned. And
my dad isn't a bad guy. I know the reason
(25:50):
that this all had occurred was due to heavy drug use.
And I told him I felt every day you had
a choice, and every day you walked right past your
family and you chose the lifestyle that you wanted. And
I told him how that made me feel, And honestly,
I think that is why we have a great relationship. Now.
(26:12):
I never had that cathartic release of look at what
you did? How did he respond? A few tears? He
was really taken back. He was very silent. I remember saying,
do you have anything to say? Because now I feel
(26:34):
like I had just spilled my heart out to somebody
and then them just be like silent. Was he able
to talk to you about what had happened and was
he able to take responsibility? He did say sorry. He
never touched on any subjects of abuse or drug use
(26:54):
or anything. It was just I'm sorry. So you've been
practicing being authentic of the past couple of years, and
you because you're laying it on out there in terms
of friends, who a partner, other people can you? And
I who supports you. Unfortunately, I moved up here out
(27:18):
fresh off of a breakup. Our plans were to move
here together and then I was dumped and I continued
on and I said, Okay, well, this is the plan
that I've been working towards. I'm just going to go
ahead and do it myself. Then so I packed up
and moved out here, and not too long ago, I
was contacted again and I was given the whole I'm
(27:42):
so sorry. I really messed up. I'd really like to
try again. I'm going to move up there. Can we
work this out? And me, being the one that never
lost the love in the first place, was like, of course, yeah,
I've been working on myself for the past year. I'm
not the same person. I'm sure you're not the same person.
But if it's true, it'll work. And we started to
(28:06):
see each other, and then when I came out as transgender,
she told me that this wasn't what she wanted, and
then that was the last time we spoke, sorting to
hear that I even touched with any other transgender people.
In terms of getting support through this process, I've heavily
(28:26):
relied on social media to allow me to have visibility
into this community. But I can't say that I have
one in person, real life friend that I see or
talk to. Just people that are visible for other people
that can't be that want to provide information and support,
and YouTube has really been a life saving tool for
(28:50):
me for just any type of information or education. Really, Yeah,
what I think about when I'm hearing all of this
is how difficult your childhood was, and how you were
so resilient throughout all of this and at the same
(29:12):
time you were struggling with this knowledge is place of
knowing in yourself that you are male, and so there's
something in you that has been so able, even with
this last breakup, to say this is who I am.
And so when I fast forward to the wedding and
I think about the trouble you're having, you've been through
(29:34):
so much and gotten through so much and stayed true
to yourself. So let's talk a little bit about why
this wedding makes it so hard for you to stay
true to yourself. As much as my family is very accepting,
I think that this issue really shows that people can
be accepting and supportive, but I think once that person
(29:57):
is involved in their inner sphere, that is where the
really it shows that they aren't as accepting as they
think they are. Like my mother will go march for
gay rights and all of these things, but you know
as soon as her son comes out to her that
he is part of the transgender community, that's where issues
(30:19):
start arising. And then it's like, Okay, well maybe you're
not as accepting as you think that you are. And
I think that that is showing a little bit with
my sister, and I don't want to hurt her feelings
by saying that she's not accepting as she may think
she is. I just think that she has traditional values
and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I just think
(30:42):
it's harder for me to fit those traditional values and
still be true to myself. So let me ask you this,
in your mind, what would it look like to be
true to yourself at Sarah's wedding? So I am her
maid of honor, so I know that I'm going to
(31:02):
be at her side. What would make me feel comfortable
would be wearing men's formal wear? The day of her wedding,
I will be taking my seventh testosterone shot, so my
mind is somewhere, and then my outer appearance is I
(31:22):
feel is being stuffed back into a closet. Well, so
you're seeing you want to wear men's formal wear? Right?
I mean? She pointed out that the mother of the
bride and the grandmother of the bride are usually in
a pantsuit or you know, something different than a formal gown,
and even that I would feel a little bit less
(31:45):
out of place. I would feel a little bit more
aligned if I was wearing anything, honestly other than a dress.
Didn't Sarah offer, Didn't she say to you one of
the options was that you could wear what the men
are wearing. Yeah, so I think that that was not
(32:05):
a very genuine option, and only because they are having
a man handstitch these beautiful Italian suits and they had
to start this process because they are being handmade so
long ago. She may have meant it genuinely, but in actuality,
(32:27):
I don't think there was any way of that truly happening.
If there was a way to make it happen. Does
that excite you the idea of wearing this custom made suit? Honestly,
it actually pushed me more towards okay, just conform to
this female appearance, because all I could think about when
(32:50):
she said that was standing next to a bunch of
CIS gendered males that are going to look great in
their formal wear. And then you have me going through
my second puberty, only like six to seven weeks on testosterone,
still very female presenting, and I think that that would
do more harm to my mind than anything. I think
(33:12):
it would make me feel even worse out of place,
like I don't fit so you want to wear men's
formal wear, but you don't want to wear something that's
such a direct comparison to those men. And I think
standing on his side also, I was against, and not
because I don't like him. He's a great guy. This
is where I guess my values don't align with traditional values,
(33:34):
because in my mind, the perfect way this wedding would
go would be me wearing this nice suit or blazer
or whatever, matching her, standing on her side. Whereas she
sees it as okay, if you want to be male presenting,
stand on the male side. If you want to be
female presenting, stand on my side, which is fine, it's
(33:55):
just more traditional, whereas in I could see me very
well wearing men's form aware but standing on her side.
Have you had a discussion with her about this whole
idea of gender being non binary and that she's actually
asking you to revert one or the other, and your
(34:16):
feeling is I would like to do something that's a
little bit more in the middle. Stand on your side,
but where's something that has a jacket to it or
something like that. Have you had that discussion with her
so she can connect it not just to the visuals
of the wedding, but to the feelings you have about
gender and about yourself and what you want to present
(34:37):
to the world. Yeah. So in the very first conversation
we spoke about this, there was a point in the
conversation where we were discussing me wearing something other than
the dress that I already bought. We already have it.
I mentioned wearing the same color but something different, and
her response, which I took as the most authentic, raw
(35:01):
emotion of how she truly felt, was her saying, I
don't want my photos to look weird. And once she
said that, I felt something in me shut down. I
was like, Okay, nope, I'm not doing this. I don't
want her to feel any type of way. This is
her special day. I will choke down any feelings I have.
I can do this one thing for her. And I
(35:23):
knew that no matter how many times, if she were
to say I take it back or I don't think
photos would look weird. I knew that that was how
she truly felt, and I was like, it's over in
my mind. I'm going to do this for her. She
told me how she really feels. Is that where you
are right now when you're thinking yes, Because the second
(35:43):
time that we spoke about it, where I was kind
of just trying to talk to her about it, after all,
is my best friend, and I went to the depths
of saying, you know, I haven't been shaving my legs
or shaving under my arms, and I was explaining to
her how it felt so relieving. I was finally able
(36:04):
to express how I feel. Things were actually starting to align,
and I told her, if this may sound very trivial
to you, but I don't want to shave, and of
course I'm going to need to. I mean not, of course,
but I guess I would be expected to. And I
was telling her how those little things may not mean
(36:24):
much at face value, but they really did mean something
to me. At that time, she was like flustered again,
and I feel bad because I know that this was
all just another issue that she had to deal with,
the makeup people, canceling, the hair people. You know, it's
a crazy time to have a wedding. So when I
brought it back up, I think that's where some of
(36:45):
the frustration went, because she's like, great, another thing I
have to deal with. So was there any closure on
that issue of what you were doing that record? I
think she realized that she was being a bit harsh,
that she was maybe coming across as unwilling to move
her position or look for a solution, and after leaving
(37:07):
the conversation like that, giving herself time to reflect, I
then got a text message later at work saying, look,
I'm really sorry if you feel like I'm not supporting you.
I want you to be happy, and I know you're
going along with this because you want me to be happy.
And then she followed that up by saying, let's fix this,
let's do something about this. But I see where she's
(37:31):
going with it, and I really just think that I
need to just do this for her. What do you
mean you see where she's going with it? I think
she wants me to know that she would maybe sit
with some uncomfortable feelings that she had if I were
to Okay, yeah, let's change it up now, which I
(37:52):
don't feel like I can do because of time constraints
and just truly knowing that she wouldn't be as happy
with her phone photos. She might not be as happy
with her photos if she thought you weren't happy in them.
And that's another thing. She was saying. She doesn't want
her photos to look weird. And what's going through my
(38:12):
head is I'm never gonna want to look at those
photos because it's not going to be who I am.
So when she said to you, let's fix this, have
you given any thought to what that might be on
your end that would make you feel less dysphoric. Yeah? Absolutely.
I did suggest that maybe after the ceremony I could
(38:36):
change and then were something that involves pants as opposed
to the dress, and she went for that, and she said,
of course, whatever you want. And I guess that has
kind of just been the middle ground that we're leaving there.
I don't know if I actually will end up going
to change. I guess I'm kind of waiting to really
(38:59):
see how I feel in it. I'm thinking about how
it was only a month ago that you revealed that
you were transitioning, and with weddings, there's a lot of
planning that takes months and months and months and so
(39:20):
I'm just curious to know if you thought about that
while she was planning the wedding, while all this was
going on, how you thought about the timing of that
and what you thought would be realistic given the tight timing.
So originally the wedding was supposed to take place in
April pre COVID, so I thought I wouldn't even come
(39:42):
out until after the wedding was already finished, and then
it being pushed back presented obviously more problems. When I
did initially come out to Sarah, I told her I
can wait to even begin my transition until after your wedding,
if that would make you feel better, make anybody feel better.
(40:06):
I was a little bit worried about how his family
might react, and she was quick to say, absolutely not.
You've waited long enough. You do what you want to do,
and it's okay. Both of you are sort of saying
we want to make sure the other person is happy,
and yet you are holding onto those words about the
(40:29):
photos that I think she's come around in a lot
of ways where maybe in a perfect world for her,
she would like her photos to look a certain way,
but she also says, I love you so much and
I want you to be happy and I want you
to be who you really are. And yet you're saying, yeah,
(40:50):
but I'll just wear the dress to make her happy.
Do you see? So it's almost like you're putting yourself
in a prison that you're not actually in. I agree.
What stands out for me is how much you and
Sarah love each other. You've been through this really difficult
traumatic childhood. You shared the room, you were there for
(41:14):
having to call the police. You clearly really love each other.
And as Laurie was saying, she wants you to be
happy and you want her to be happy. You really
have done such a remarkable job of being authentic and
speaking your truth and really telling people how you feel
and who you are over these past years. And I
(41:38):
think there has to be elements of that in this
wedding where you feel authentic to you. But when you say, well,
I'll do it for her, that is you not getting
yourself the authenticity. They have to be pictures you can
look at and be happy. I mean, when Tina got married,
I wore a dress and I love those pictures. I
(42:02):
think maybe I'm a very anxiety written person. Maybe I
am just letting my thoughts get the better of me,
and that when I do see myself in that dress,
and when I do see how happy my sister is,
maybe I don't feel the way that I anticipate that
I'm feeling. You know, at Liam, I hear you talking
yourself out of your truth. And when you say that
(42:25):
you were happy looking at the pictures at Tina's wedding,
you were in a different place. Yeah, And this is
where you are now, and all of you siblings have
gone through so much together and here's a really happy occasion.
And what's so happy about it is that your sister
(42:47):
is saying, look, I'm human. I have reactions to things.
You are human, You have reactions to things. But in
the end, we always come back to we love each
other and we want each of us to be true
to our And you keep fighting that she has come
back to multiple times. You've recounted in this conversation how
(43:07):
many times she has come back to you and said,
I want to fix this, I want to make it right.
I want you to be comfortable. And every time you
argue with it, and so this conversation with her just
gets prolonged and it becomes almost an argument where you're
arguing against yourself, and then she has to be the
person who is arguing on your behalf. And I think
(43:29):
what's happening is you're externalizing an internal argument. So you're
making this internal argument that you're having with yourself about well,
how public should I be about this? And how do
I feel about being public about this in front of
my family, in front of all of these people. And
you may have some fear around that, but don't make
Sarah the bad guy in this, because she's not right.
(44:00):
So we're thinking about your situation, and we have two
pieces of advice that we'd like you to try this week, sure,
And the first is that we would like you to
have a different conversation with Sarah than the one that
is getting nowhere, that just keeps going back and forth.
And that is for you to say it is, Sarah,
(44:21):
I am so excited for your big day. I am
so excited for this new chapter of your life, and
I want it to be everything that you want it
to be. And the reason that it's hard for me
to either wear a bridesmaid dress or to wear men's
formal wear is because I am transitioning and I am
in the middle. Right now, and I would like to
(44:43):
go to your wedding in a way that reflects that
middle ground where I actually am in life. And you
have been so gracious and supportive and I so appreciate that,
and I would like to figure out with you what
would make you comfortable that I can wear that reflects
(45:03):
the actual place that I am right now, which is
in that middle ground. And you talk about colors, and
you talk about style, and you talk about whatever it is,
and by the end of that conversation you say, this
is the tailor we have to call. This is the
thing we're going to order, and you get that order
in by next week. Okay, So none of this back
(45:27):
and forth, none of this what do we do? And
oh no, she's going to be displeased. Oh no, then
she thinks, so I'm going to be displeased. I think
you both actually agree. You've already resolved this. You're not
taking away anything from her day. The spotlight is on
her and you're in the middle, and you want to
wear something that reflects that. I think you're both in
agreement on that. So now you just have to execute that.
(45:50):
And so instead of having this internal argument with yourself
that you're now externalizing to Sarah. You can say, wait
a minute, I need to look at why this is
so hard for me to accept your offer. Laurie said
you that you're having this argument in your own head
that you're then externalizing with Sarah. I think that's primarily
because you don't have other trans people to talk to
(46:15):
about very specific situations. You're on a journey that's a marathon,
it's not a sprint, and you really need to have
people who've been through it, who understand it, who are
going through it that you can talk to and you
can share some of these feelings so that you can
get clear in your head that what you feel is
(46:40):
completely valid and legitimate and important. So the second part
of the advice we're giving you that we'd like you
to do this week is to find some kind of
trans support group where you're talking about these things. You
need to have around you people who really truly get
you from experience and not just from love, which is
(47:03):
what you have right now, and that's great, by the way.
So those are the two things. How do you feel
about doing those things. I've actually found a group that
meets every other Sunday with a focus on the transgender community.
I just have not yet made it to a meeting
just because of work constraints, but it is worth it
(47:26):
to take a day off of work to make this
happen and to get the support of people in my shoes.
And it really pained me to hear the first bit
of advice because I'm realizing that I did not say
any of those things. I'm so happy for you, I'm
so excited for your big day, and I really am
thrilled for her and I am excited for her, and
(47:48):
it makes me sad that I haven't vocalized that yet.
So I think both bits are very doable and I
think this will definitely get us past, like you said,
this back and forth of really not getting anything done,
and it will be helpful to hear it too, because
(48:08):
there's so much stress before a wedding, and to say, listen,
I think this got lost in all of the logistics.
I just want to let you know that I am
so excited you found this great person and I hope
to find a great person, and that you are there
just as she has supported you. You are there to
support her that day. And to say it's been hard
(48:29):
for me to accept your support because I'm so worried
about your feelings, and I realize that not accepting your support,
I'm actually making it harder for you. Yeah. Absolutely well,
we wish you luck with this this week. Thank you, guys,
appreciate it so much. What I really liked about Liam
(48:54):
was that he was so resilient. He had been through
so much in his life, and yet every turn he
was able to stay true to himself to get to
the point where he got to today. And I think
there's still a part of him because this is so
new that he's gone public, that isn't so sure about
(49:17):
how to navigate this. And I think because he's been
so resilient, he thinks he should just know how to
do this, And that's why it's so important for him
to be able to talk to other people and have
some community around him. I think what's blogging him a
little bit is that he loves his sisters so much
and his mom, and he's been able to forgive his dad,
(49:37):
and he was able to forgive his former partner and
try again. Is so empathetic that I think that that's
what's blogging him. He's thinking a little too much of
other people's feelings and not prioritizing himself quite enough and
being on the path that he's on will help him
find balance between his own needs and the of the
(50:00):
people around him. You're listening to Dear Therapist from My
Heart Radio. We'll be back after a quick break. So, Laurie,
(50:22):
we heard from Liam. Let's hear what happened. Hi Laurie.
Hi guy. So I spoke with Sarah one last time
and we've come to the conclusion that I will wear
the dress throughout the ceremony and after the ceremony when
we all go to sit down to eat and then
dance later, I'm going to change into a really nice
(50:45):
mauve colored blazer with just some nice pants and a
nice shirt underneath. That way, I can also get a
bunch of photos in that outfit that I feel more
comfortable in, and also my sister can get at her
ceremonial pictures how she likes it. And I did try
to go to an in person support group, but it
(51:07):
does look like the COVID restrictions are still a little
too strict to have those in person meetings. I did
contact the group and they did say that they do
think that they will be open soon, but I am
continuing to look for a virtual support group until I
can make those meetings. So again, I just wanted to
thank you guys so much for listening and sharing my
(51:29):
story and providing me with some really great advice. So
thank you guys so much. I'm really glad that Liam
talked to Sarah. I remember that one of the things
we wanted him to get across to her was how
excited he is for her wedding, and I think that
(51:50):
that somehow maybe got lost in here, even though there's
so much love between the two of them, and so
we didn't hear from Liam whether that happened. I don't
know if it's just hard for the two of them
to communicate because of the discomfort they're having around talking
about something that's hard for both of them. And this
(52:11):
might be hard for Sarah in ways that they haven't
been able to talk about, or Sarah hasn't been able
to talk about for fear of hurting Liam's feelings. So
I'm glad they came to a compromise. I'm not convinced
that the sentiment that we hoped Liam would get across happen,
(52:31):
And I also think it's very common that something very
concrete like a wedding, becomes the focus of a deeper
conversation that needs to be had. And so this just
happened last month. Everybody is all of a sudden talking about, Okay,
Liam is transitioning. What does that mean for how Liam
is going to be at the wedding? And that's one conversation,
(52:54):
but it opens the door for the many conversations that
are going to happen after this. I completely agree. The
one great service this wedding did is it forced them
to have several conversations about Liam's transitioning, which meant that
in the early stages, they already established this is something
(53:14):
we're going to be able to talk about, we're going
to need to talk about, and they already established that precedent,
which will be so valuable going forward with the process
for Liam especially, but for his sisters and family as well.
It's great that Liam is looking into local support groups
because it's really important for him to be able to
(53:35):
talk with other people who are going through what he's
going through. I think Liam is setting the stage for
creating the kind of support around him that will make
this process go as smoothly as possible for him. Yeah,
it's going to be an exciting time ahead for Liam. Hey,
fellow travelers, if you've used any of our advice from
(53:57):
the podcast in your own life, send us a quick
voice memo to Lori and Guy at iHeartMedia dot com
and tell us about it. We may include it in
a future show. Thank you so much for listening. If
you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate
and review it. You can follow us both online. I'm
at Lori Gottlieb dot com and you can follow me
(54:17):
on Twitter at Lori Gottlieb I or on Instagram at
Lori Gottlieb Underscore Author. And I'm at Guywinch dot com.
I'm on Twitter and on Instagram at Guywinch. If you
have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us, big
or small, email us at Lorie and Guy at iHeartMedia
dot com. Our executive producers, Christopher Hasiotis, were produced and
(54:40):
edited by Mike John's Special thanks to Samuel Benefield and
to our podcast Fairy Godmother Katie Currek. Next week, we'll
talk to a mother trying to forge a more open
line of communication with her adult children after years of turmoil.
I don't want to be a word between him and
his wife. I want them to figure it out. And
so I think part of what's been holding me back
(55:02):
is saying I don't want to be in charge of
my children making personal decisions on such a huge scale
because of a comment I might have made. Dear Therapist
is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey, fellow travelers. I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of
Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and I write the
Dear Therapist advice column for The Atlantic. And I'm Guy Wench.
I wrote Emotional First Aid, and I write a Dear
Guy column for Ted. And this is dea Therapists. This week,
a trans man deals with family pushback as he begins
transitioning right before his sister's wedding. My mother will go
(00:27):
march for gay rights and all of these things, but
you know, as soon as her son comes out to
her that he is part of the transgender community, that's
where issues start arising. And then it's like, Okay, well,
maybe you're not as accepting as you think that you are.
Listen in and maybe learn something about yourself in the process.
(00:49):
Dea Therapists is for informational purposes only, does not constitute
medical advice, and is not to substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis,
or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician, mental
health professional, or other qualified health provider with any questions
you may have regarding a medical condition. By submitting a letter,
you are agreeing to let Ihart Media use it in
(01:10):
partter and fall, and we may edit it for length
and or clarity. Hey Laurie, Hey guy, Well, this week
our letter is time sensitive. Oh well, in that case,
let's get right to it. Indeed, let's do that, Dear therapists.
I come to you both begging for help on a
tough issue I'm facing. Last month, I came out to
(01:32):
my family as transgender and began my homeown replacement therapy
in the lengthy conversion of female to mail. My sister
is getting married, and because of COVID, the wedding was
postponed for months. The wedding was originally planned for April
and now will commence next month. I'm serving as my
sister's maid of honor, and I'm expected to wear a
(01:53):
dress and make up. I've suffered from body dysploria since
a young age, constantly covering up my body when swimming,
dressing more masculine, and it has been getting worse with
the wedding drawing closer. Finally allowing myself to wear what
I feel comfortable in has really made me so much happier,
and I feel like this wedding is throwing me back
into the old discord. I spoke to my sister about
(02:16):
alternative options, but she gave me an ultimatum. Wear the
dress and stand on her side, or wear the same
thing as the men and stand on his side. Standing
next to a slew of sisgendered males in nice formal
wear will only make my body dysphoria worse. I've spoken
to my other sister about the matter, but she does
not know what to do or have any suggestions besides
(02:37):
not being in the wedding altogether. Please let me know
if you have any advice or even something I can
do to try and ease my anxiety about this day
coming soon. The plan at the moment is to endure
the mental depression and to just do this one thing
for my sister, even though it's really taking a toll
on me. Liam. This is a really tough situation for
(02:59):
Liam A It's especially hard because I think that he's
an uncharted territory and I think that his family has
just gotten this news and they are trying to be supportive,
but Liam is not feeling supported, and it's hard for
(03:21):
them to communicate about what would make Liam feel supported.
We are at a place now in society where we're
recognizing that gender is not binary, and here Liam is
faced with a binary choice when he really doesn't want
to have to make a bindory choice one way or
the other at the moment. And so there's this very
literal translation of where society is in terms of coming
(03:43):
to terms with the fluidity of gender. I think you're
right that this really underlines how society has not caught up.
And you can see that on the smaller level within families,
where people say this is who I am and there
are no rules. People don't know what to do. And
(04:03):
I think that we need to help Liam to get
his voice heard. Here, let's go talk to him. You're
listening to Dia Therapists from iHeartRadio. We'll be back after
a quick break. I'm Lori Gottlieb and I'm Guy Wench
(04:24):
and this is Dia Therapists. So Hi Liam, Hi, Thank
you guys so much for having me, Thank you so
much for coming on. So Liam, we know this was
time sensitive. Tell us if there's been any development since
you wrote your letter. Yeah, absolutely so. Initially upon touching
(04:45):
on this subject, I feel as though I reached a
point where I kind of gave in to Yeah, I
will go with what you truly want and then we
kind of left it and I started to talk to
my other sister, Tina, and she really had no advice
(05:06):
on where to go. It was still bothering me. And
then it just so happened that my sister Sarah called,
and it kind of seemed like, oh, she called, let
me just lightly bring the subject back up, and at
the mere mention of the subject, she got very defensive
and very touchy. I reiterated that I was just trying
(05:26):
to have a conversation, but it was very clear her
frustration about it. It was I thought we dealt with
it already. I thought we had discussed what we were doing.
So I was met with a lot of emotion. So
Sarah's the one who's getting married, right, and what is
(05:48):
the birth order? Tina is the oldest, She's about seven
years my senior, and then Sarah's two years my senior,
and then I'm the youngest. Okay, And before this wedding
stuff came up, and before you told them that you
were transitioning, what was your relationship like with both of
your sisters. We had a bit of a rocky childhood,
(06:10):
so we got very close very quickly. I was closer
with Sarah because we shared a room for majority of
our childhood. I mean, we've always been really close. I
don't think there's a day that I go without speaking
to both of them. Tell us about the rockiness of
(06:31):
the childhood. We had abuse of parents, so we stuck
together through a lot of hard times. We constantly were
ripped out of our home, stayed with other people. Some
of our friends couldn't know where we lived, so that
was kind of hard. We kind of looked at Tina
like the mother sometimes, if you will. She did a
(06:54):
lot because she was the oldest. I think everything affected
her a little bit differently. She kind of looked took
on this leadership role and me and Sarah kind of
were waiting on her word, doing what she thought would
be best. When you say you were ripped from your home,
do you mean that child's services took you out of
the home. I don't want to say child's services ever came,
(07:18):
but family members would come. My aunt would come and
grab us and we'd stay at her house. A lot
of my best friends in school, they weren't allowed to
know whose house we were staying at, just in case
it were to get back to my father. But we
still went to the same school, so he was able
to come and he had lunch with me a couple
of times, so that I feel like alienated me a
(07:40):
little bit because I would be sitting at the lunch
table with my father crying at the end, while the
rest of my class was happy eating lunch, and they're like,
why is her Why is his dad coming and sitting
with them? And all they do is cry? Can you?
Can you tell us a little bit about your parents
and what might have been going on with them and
(08:02):
what kind of abuse you had to endure. The physical
abuse was towards my mother. We witnessed it and heard
it a lot. We often were the ones that had
to call the cops, so that was terrifying. We also
had family members that would stop us from calling the
cops and tell us to go back in our room
(08:25):
and everything was fine, So then we would have to
crawl on the floor to get to the phone to
call for help. We were in a really underdeveloped neighborhood,
so it wasn't like we could run to the neighbor's
house and go, you know, ask for help or anything
like that, so that kind of banded us all together.
I feel like, in unfortunate ways, there were other family
(08:47):
members living in the home. They were just visiting so
this and then told you not to intervene they would
be visiting. My maternal grandmother was majority of the time
the one to say, put the phone down, go to
your room. They're having a discussion your maternal grandmother. No,
I'm sorry, I think I misspoke my paternal grandmother. And
(09:09):
then because of that going on, my then maternal grandmother
came and stayed with us, kind of acting like a
guard dog almost to make sure that none of that
was going on with her daughter being involved. And at
what point did you leave the home the final time
that we left and did not come back. I was seven,
(09:31):
so that would make Sarah nine and Tina must have
been around fourteen. And where did you go? What happened?
We went to one of my aunt's houses. It was
in the same town. It wasn't too inconvenient, but that
was one of the addresses that I wasn't allowed to
have friends over, and we kind of all crammed in
(09:53):
this two bedroom house and tried to live as completely
normal as every thing was with your them, with my mother.
When did the body dysphoria start? Honestly, when I was
speaking to my mom about it the first time. The
way that I introduced the topic was, do you remember
(10:16):
when I was about five and every time I would
go in the pool, I would wear this giant T shirt.
Numerous times it was the reason that I would be drowning,
where it was like, why do you wear that? That's
not going to help you. You know, wearing a bathing
suit would be easier for you to swim in. So
I remember from a young age I was constantly covering
(10:38):
myself when I was going in the pool. Also, I
mean just dressing in general. I was always I was
very famous for wearing soccer shorts to school, the same
boyish outfits if you will. So, I would say, as
young as I can remember, around like five or six,
I was tending to cover up. How old are you Liam? Eight? Yeah?
(11:04):
So what was it about the last maybe year when
you decided you were ready to transition? I think the
biggest factors that allowed me to be true to myself
was that I just bought my first house this year,
so I have a perfectly safe environment. I have a
(11:26):
great job that I work for, amazing people that don't
treat me any different. They don't make me feel as
though I'm jeopardizing my job by being honest. So really
those main things is just having my shelter that I
don't have to worry about, and having my job that
isn't going to terminate me for any of these reasons.
(11:50):
When did you first start to realize that you were
transgender and when did you come out and how did
that go? I think I've always really known. I was
always wishing on my birthday candles that I was a
boy for as long as I can remember. I thought
(12:11):
that it was something that nothing could be done. I
just had to deal with it. I had to suppress it.
I had to come to terms with this is the
way I was born, this is the way I'm going
to die. There's really nothing you can do about it.
But really seriously got into the idea of transitioning back
in twenty fourteen. As soon as I got out of college.
(12:32):
I went to a big university, so it was very diverse.
I went to a lot of the LGBTQ community meetings,
met a lot of people through that, and twenty fourteen
I spoke to one friend about it, one person I
confided in and really expressed my true feelings and he
was great. He was amazing, and he encouraged me to
(12:56):
take the next step. I set up all of the
appointments that I needed to with the doctors, and to
be honest, at the last second, I just did not
go to any of them. At the time, when I
moved back from college, I was living with my mother again,
regrouping on where to go now. I just finished college.
What kind of career am I going into? And I
(13:19):
think by that pressure it kind of deterred me from
taking this route any sooner. When you say that pressure,
you mean you came home from college, you told your
mom and she didn't react. Well, I didn't tell anybody
back in twenty fourteen except that one friend. The one friend.
(13:40):
By skipping those appointments, I think that was me weaseling
out of actually addressing the issue and talking about it
with any of my family. So I recently just came
out to her last month, and she is legally deaf,
you realize, heavily on reading lips. We have a house
(14:04):
phone that when you call, it will type the dialogue
so that she can read it back. So I actually
had her come and stay with me, and I wanted
to have this conversation face to face with her. How
did that conversation go? So I explained to her about
the body dysphorius. Since I was young, you know, the
(14:27):
bathing suit, the covering up. I kind of was allowing
her to connect her own dots there. And as soon
as I said the words like I'm going to transition,
the first thing that she said was I knew you
were going to say that. In that moment, she told
me everything that I did want to hear. I still
(14:48):
love you. I will never cut you out of the
family or stop talking to you or stop loving you.
And I felt very relieved and very happy at that time.
She was actually the last person that I told. Even
though I have a great relationship with her, it was
the hardest because she was brought up very Catholic, and
(15:12):
I just was very unsure of how she would take it.
So I left the best relax. Have you discussed it since?
I mean, sometimes there's the coming out conversation and then
things get kind of shelled or ignored or dismissed. Has
it been discussed since with her? It has actually so
when she got back from the vacation here, it was
(15:32):
as if she flipped a switch. And everything she said
was null and void. She tried to talk me out
of it, as if it was something that one could
be talked out of. She told me that I need
to be true to who I am, in which case
I responded, I'm trying to be who I really am.
(15:53):
She asked why I had to alter my body with hormones,
why I have to look differently, ultimately pointing out that
my biological makeup isn't going to ever be the way
that I really truly want it to be. So hearing
all of that made me frustrated at first, because these
(16:15):
would have been things that I wanted to discuss face
to face. Again, she is deaf, so all of this
is being portrayed through text messages, which tone can be
interpreted differently, you know, out of context. And I really
didn't want to make her feel as though I was
attacking her or anything. But on the other hand, I
(16:36):
felt very attacked and very lied to. I felt like
she was saying that because she was in front of me,
not because she was really accepting and really loved me
and really didn't want me to feel alienated. You know,
what happens sometimes with parents in these situations is that
when she's face to face with you, she is in
(16:59):
that moment living how much she loves you and how
much she cares about you. And I believe that what
comes out in those moments can be more authentic because
she's with you. This is how she truly feels about you. Yes,
I want you to be happy. But then when she
goes home and you're not in front of her, then
she deals with the consequences of having to deal with
telling the people around her in the community and the
(17:21):
family knowing, and what feedback she will get from that,
And she starts to think about herself perhaps and what
she's going to say to people, how she's going to feel,
And then she takes a step back, And I think
what's important to remember is that you've had many, many
years to process this, and she needs a little bit
of time to go through that process as well. She's
(17:41):
hearing this for the first time, even though she's suspected
that's not the same as really processing it. I can
understand why you feel hurt, because what you want from
your parent is I'm really happy for you that you
are finally going to get to live in the way
that is true to you. Right and now, you get
to live who you actually are. She does have some
(18:05):
catching up to do, but at the same time, there's
this ticking clock of this wedding, and so I wonder
how your sisters since you told them first, how did
your sisters react? Who did you tell first, and how
did those conversations go and when? Yeah, so, honestly, this
was the second time that I've come out to my family.
(18:27):
I identified for the first twenty eight years of my
life as a lesbian. So the first time around, Tina
was the most accepting, and she was also the one
that was like, yeah, I know, it's okay. It's okay
that you finally are okay with it. That meant the
world to me. That made me feel exactly how I
(18:48):
feel she intended to make me feel. Sarah, on the
other hand, was very surprised, which it made me giggle.
It was funny because I'm like, you know me better
than anyone. We've shared a room for almost twenty years together,
and this is catching you off guard. But sure, all
very accepting about coming out as gay in high school.
(19:10):
The second time was harder for me, but I feel
like they were both very, very accepting, very supportive, and encouraging,
actually very encouraging. You came out to Sarah and Tatino?
When was that second time? A month ago? Okay, very recent? Yeah,
(19:35):
I wanted to tell them before I actually started my
hormone replacement therapy. I wanted to clear the air so
everybody would be on the same page. I anticipated needing
a lot of support, so I wanted everybody to be
caught up in well aware. Can I ask you who
else is there in your life that gives you support?
(19:56):
Plot twist? My father is actually a huge part of
my life. Now there is a plot twist. Yeah, I've
always considered myself like a well from before this point,
a daddy's girl. Right. I am very much my father's son.
I've connected through my childhood, even through all of the
horrible things that I've endured because of him, our relationship
(20:21):
now is truly better than ever when I came out
to him. My father is very open minded. When I
first told him that I have always felt like his son,
he responded to that by saying, I've always felt you
were my son, and he normalized it and made me
feel as though this was a realization that maybe I
(20:42):
was just coming to. But he had thought about before,
but he treated me with nothing but respect and love
and support. And it really caught me off guard because
I thought the reactions between my mother and father would
have been criss crossed if you would have asked me,
who was going to react? Which way? Can you fill
us in on what happened to once you moved out
(21:05):
and there was this abuse going on? How did you
reconcile with your father after that? There was a lot
of time that I didn't. There was a lot of
time that I would see him and I would give
him the silent treatment and the cold shoulder. Christmas would
come and go, my Birthday would come and go, and
I would have no contact with him, nothing, And those
(21:29):
were really what hurt me. So mostly I responded by
not speaking to him and kind of just pushing him
further away. Did you ever have a conversation as you
got older about the abuse and did he ever take
responsibility for it? I actually did the last time that
he was here. My whole family still resides in Florida,
(21:51):
so he came up here and we had been great
the entire time that he was here, but plans got
mixed up because of COVID and my mother was supposed
to come up as well, and my father was still here,
so they went ahead. The plan was that my father
was going to leave and before my mother came, so
(22:13):
there was going to be no overlap. Unbeknownst to me,
they went ahead and main plans in which my mother
was now coming up while my father was still here,
and then they were going to drive back to Florida
together while staying at my house for another seven days. Now,
I work an overnight job, so I tend to leave
(22:35):
my house at six pm and I don't get home
until around five thirty six am. So those feelings started
to resonate with me. Oh my gosh, my parents are
going to be alone in my house while I'm not there,
and all the memories started flooding back. Everything started making
(22:57):
me anxious, and I didn't feel like I really had
a say in it at all until I really sat
with my feelings and spoke to both of my sisters, like,
why are our parents acting like this is normal that
they're going to come and stay with me. That would
be perfectly normal if they were a couple and they
were still together, and you know, our childhood didn't happen.
(23:19):
But I feel like I was being extremely gaslighted into
thinking that this was not only okay but normal. I
hate to use that word safe. Safe is better? Yeah, absolutely,
So clearly they had been in touch and had some
kind of understanding. Were you aware of that? When I
addressed my mother, she told me your father and I
(23:43):
have had a relationship for the past two years. We're friends,
we know where we stand with each other, and then
she went on to say during the hurricanes, he stayed
at the house with me. Now, that was more than
I really needed to hear. I appreciate that they have
been honest throughout this entire thing, but it didn't ease
(24:04):
any of my anxiety or make me feel safe at all.
So what happened when you addressed it? Did that give
you an opening to have a conversation about the abuse
that had happened. When I told my mother I don't
feel okay with this, it was very well, we told
you about this, Well you were fine about this. Well
why is it a big deal now? And I persisted
(24:25):
to tell her it doesn't make me feel okay. I've
been very anxious. And then that led to just inevitably
my father being like, what's going on? You don't want
your mother to come up here very innocently, very you know,
testing the waters. And that was kind of just the
last straw, I would say. I went off on him
(24:45):
in the sense of saying, I think my opening remark
is I'm finished calling the police. I'm finished doing that.
I do not want to do that again. And he
was taken back by it, and the ball started rolling,
everything started coming out. I've told him how everything he's
(25:06):
done in the past had manipulated the way that I
turned out, and maybe he didn't realize it because he
wasn't around to see the effects that he had then
had on my life. I even apologized halfway through it, saying, look,
I'm sorry to dump all of this on you, but
you have been gone for almost twenty years. You never
had to sit here and listen to what has happened
(25:29):
to me, and you never got to hear what you
did to me. I have thrown all of that on
mom for the past twenty eight years. She has heard
everything because she was there. You weren't there. And I
told him how it felt that I was abandoned. And
my dad isn't a bad guy. I know the reason
(25:50):
that this all had occurred was due to heavy drug use.
And I told him I felt every day you had
a choice, and every day you walked right past your
family and you chose the lifestyle that you wanted. And
I told him how that made me feel, And honestly,
I think that is why we have a great relationship. Now.
(26:12):
I never had that cathartic release of look at what
you did? How did he respond? A few tears? He
was really taken back. He was very silent. I remember saying,
do you have anything to say? Because now I feel
(26:34):
like I had just spilled my heart out to somebody
and then them just be like silent. Was he able
to talk to you about what had happened and was
he able to take responsibility? He did say sorry. He
never touched on any subjects of abuse or drug use
(26:54):
or anything. It was just I'm sorry. So you've been
practicing being authentic of the past couple of years, and
you because you're laying it on out there in terms
of friends, who a partner, other people can you? And
I who supports you. Unfortunately, I moved up here out
(27:18):
fresh off of a breakup. Our plans were to move
here together and then I was dumped and I continued
on and I said, Okay, well, this is the plan
that I've been working towards. I'm just going to go
ahead and do it myself. Then so I packed up
and moved out here, and not too long ago, I
was contacted again and I was given the whole I'm
(27:42):
so sorry. I really messed up. I'd really like to
try again. I'm going to move up there. Can we
work this out? And me, being the one that never
lost the love in the first place, was like, of course, yeah,
I've been working on myself for the past year. I'm
not the same person. I'm sure you're not the same person.
But if it's true, it'll work. And we started to
(28:06):
see each other, and then when I came out as transgender,
she told me that this wasn't what she wanted, and
then that was the last time we spoke, sorting to
hear that I even touched with any other transgender people.
In terms of getting support through this process, I've heavily
(28:26):
relied on social media to allow me to have visibility
into this community. But I can't say that I have
one in person, real life friend that I see or
talk to. Just people that are visible for other people
that can't be that want to provide information and support,
and YouTube has really been a life saving tool for
(28:50):
me for just any type of information or education. Really, Yeah,
what I think about when I'm hearing all of this
is how difficult your childhood was, and how you were
so resilient throughout all of this and at the same
(29:12):
time you were struggling with this knowledge is place of
knowing in yourself that you are male, and so there's
something in you that has been so able, even with
this last breakup, to say this is who I am.
And so when I fast forward to the wedding and
I think about the trouble you're having, you've been through
(29:34):
so much and gotten through so much and stayed true
to yourself. So let's talk a little bit about why
this wedding makes it so hard for you to stay
true to yourself. As much as my family is very accepting,
I think that this issue really shows that people can
be accepting and supportive, but I think once that person
(29:57):
is involved in their inner sphere, that is where the
really it shows that they aren't as accepting as they
think they are. Like my mother will go march for
gay rights and all of these things, but you know
as soon as her son comes out to her that
he is part of the transgender community, that's where issues
(30:19):
start arising. And then it's like, Okay, well maybe you're
not as accepting as you think that you are. And
I think that that is showing a little bit with
my sister, and I don't want to hurt her feelings
by saying that she's not accepting as she may think
she is. I just think that she has traditional values
and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I just think
(30:42):
it's harder for me to fit those traditional values and
still be true to myself. So let me ask you this,
in your mind, what would it look like to be
true to yourself at Sarah's wedding? So I am her
maid of honor, so I know that I'm going to
(31:02):
be at her side. What would make me feel comfortable
would be wearing men's formal wear? The day of her wedding,
I will be taking my seventh testosterone shot, so my
mind is somewhere, and then my outer appearance is I
(31:22):
feel is being stuffed back into a closet. Well, so
you're seeing you want to wear men's formal wear? Right?
I mean? She pointed out that the mother of the
bride and the grandmother of the bride are usually in
a pantsuit or you know, something different than a formal gown,
and even that I would feel a little bit less
(31:45):
out of place. I would feel a little bit more
aligned if I was wearing anything, honestly other than a dress.
Didn't Sarah offer, Didn't she say to you one of
the options was that you could wear what the men
are wearing. Yeah, so I think that that was not
(32:05):
a very genuine option, and only because they are having
a man handstitch these beautiful Italian suits and they had
to start this process because they are being handmade so
long ago. She may have meant it genuinely, but in actuality,
(32:27):
I don't think there was any way of that truly happening.
If there was a way to make it happen. Does
that excite you the idea of wearing this custom made suit? Honestly,
it actually pushed me more towards okay, just conform to
this female appearance, because all I could think about when
(32:50):
she said that was standing next to a bunch of
CIS gendered males that are going to look great in
their formal wear. And then you have me going through
my second puberty, only like six to seven weeks on testosterone,
still very female presenting, and I think that that would
do more harm to my mind than anything. I think
(33:12):
it would make me feel even worse out of place,
like I don't fit so you want to wear men's
formal wear, but you don't want to wear something that's
such a direct comparison to those men. And I think
standing on his side also, I was against, and not
because I don't like him. He's a great guy. This
is where I guess my values don't align with traditional values,
(33:34):
because in my mind, the perfect way this wedding would
go would be me wearing this nice suit or blazer
or whatever, matching her, standing on her side. Whereas she
sees it as okay, if you want to be male presenting,
stand on the male side. If you want to be
female presenting, stand on my side, which is fine, it's
(33:55):
just more traditional, whereas in I could see me very
well wearing men's form aware but standing on her side.
Have you had a discussion with her about this whole
idea of gender being non binary and that she's actually
asking you to revert one or the other, and your
(34:16):
feeling is I would like to do something that's a
little bit more in the middle. Stand on your side,
but where's something that has a jacket to it or
something like that. Have you had that discussion with her
so she can connect it not just to the visuals
of the wedding, but to the feelings you have about
gender and about yourself and what you want to present
(34:37):
to the world. Yeah. So in the very first conversation
we spoke about this, there was a point in the
conversation where we were discussing me wearing something other than
the dress that I already bought. We already have it.
I mentioned wearing the same color but something different, and
her response, which I took as the most authentic, raw
(35:01):
emotion of how she truly felt, was her saying, I
don't want my photos to look weird. And once she
said that, I felt something in me shut down. I
was like, Okay, nope, I'm not doing this. I don't
want her to feel any type of way. This is
her special day. I will choke down any feelings I have.
I can do this one thing for her. And I
(35:23):
knew that no matter how many times, if she were
to say I take it back or I don't think
photos would look weird. I knew that that was how
she truly felt, and I was like, it's over in
my mind. I'm going to do this for her. She
told me how she really feels. Is that where you
are right now when you're thinking yes, Because the second
(35:43):
time that we spoke about it, where I was kind
of just trying to talk to her about it, after all,
is my best friend, and I went to the depths
of saying, you know, I haven't been shaving my legs
or shaving under my arms, and I was explaining to
her how it felt so relieving. I was finally able
(36:04):
to express how I feel. Things were actually starting to align,
and I told her, if this may sound very trivial
to you, but I don't want to shave, and of
course I'm going to need to. I mean not, of course,
but I guess I would be expected to. And I
was telling her how those little things may not mean
(36:24):
much at face value, but they really did mean something
to me. At that time, she was like flustered again,
and I feel bad because I know that this was
all just another issue that she had to deal with,
the makeup people, canceling, the hair people. You know, it's
a crazy time to have a wedding. So when I
brought it back up, I think that's where some of
(36:45):
the frustration went, because she's like, great, another thing I
have to deal with. So was there any closure on
that issue of what you were doing that record? I
think she realized that she was being a bit harsh,
that she was maybe coming across as unwilling to move
her position or look for a solution, and after leaving
(37:07):
the conversation like that, giving herself time to reflect, I
then got a text message later at work saying, look,
I'm really sorry if you feel like I'm not supporting you.
I want you to be happy, and I know you're
going along with this because you want me to be happy.
And then she followed that up by saying, let's fix this,
let's do something about this. But I see where she's
(37:31):
going with it, and I really just think that I
need to just do this for her. What do you
mean you see where she's going with it? I think
she wants me to know that she would maybe sit
with some uncomfortable feelings that she had if I were
to Okay, yeah, let's change it up now, which I
(37:52):
don't feel like I can do because of time constraints
and just truly knowing that she wouldn't be as happy
with her phone photos. She might not be as happy
with her photos if she thought you weren't happy in them.
And that's another thing. She was saying. She doesn't want
her photos to look weird. And what's going through my
(38:12):
head is I'm never gonna want to look at those
photos because it's not going to be who I am.
So when she said to you, let's fix this, have
you given any thought to what that might be on
your end that would make you feel less dysphoric. Yeah? Absolutely.
I did suggest that maybe after the ceremony I could
(38:36):
change and then were something that involves pants as opposed
to the dress, and she went for that, and she said,
of course, whatever you want. And I guess that has
kind of just been the middle ground that we're leaving there.
I don't know if I actually will end up going
to change. I guess I'm kind of waiting to really
(38:59):
see how I feel in it. I'm thinking about how
it was only a month ago that you revealed that
you were transitioning, and with weddings, there's a lot of
planning that takes months and months and months and so
(39:20):
I'm just curious to know if you thought about that
while she was planning the wedding, while all this was
going on, how you thought about the timing of that
and what you thought would be realistic given the tight timing.
So originally the wedding was supposed to take place in
April pre COVID, so I thought I wouldn't even come
(39:42):
out until after the wedding was already finished, and then
it being pushed back presented obviously more problems. When I
did initially come out to Sarah, I told her I
can wait to even begin my transition until after your wedding,
if that would make you feel better, make anybody feel better.
(40:06):
I was a little bit worried about how his family
might react, and she was quick to say, absolutely not.
You've waited long enough. You do what you want to do,
and it's okay. Both of you are sort of saying
we want to make sure the other person is happy,
and yet you are holding onto those words about the
(40:29):
photos that I think she's come around in a lot
of ways where maybe in a perfect world for her,
she would like her photos to look a certain way,
but she also says, I love you so much and
I want you to be happy and I want you
to be who you really are. And yet you're saying, yeah,
(40:50):
but I'll just wear the dress to make her happy.
Do you see? So it's almost like you're putting yourself
in a prison that you're not actually in. I agree.
What stands out for me is how much you and
Sarah love each other. You've been through this really difficult
traumatic childhood. You shared the room, you were there for
(41:14):
having to call the police. You clearly really love each other.
And as Laurie was saying, she wants you to be
happy and you want her to be happy. You really
have done such a remarkable job of being authentic and
speaking your truth and really telling people how you feel
and who you are over these past years. And I
(41:38):
think there has to be elements of that in this
wedding where you feel authentic to you. But when you say, well,
I'll do it for her, that is you not getting
yourself the authenticity. They have to be pictures you can
look at and be happy. I mean, when Tina got married,
I wore a dress and I love those pictures. I
(42:02):
think maybe I'm a very anxiety written person. Maybe I
am just letting my thoughts get the better of me,
and that when I do see myself in that dress,
and when I do see how happy my sister is,
maybe I don't feel the way that I anticipate that
I'm feeling. You know, at Liam, I hear you talking
yourself out of your truth. And when you say that
(42:25):
you were happy looking at the pictures at Tina's wedding,
you were in a different place. Yeah, And this is
where you are now, and all of you siblings have
gone through so much together and here's a really happy occasion.
And what's so happy about it is that your sister
(42:47):
is saying, look, I'm human. I have reactions to things.
You are human, You have reactions to things. But in
the end, we always come back to we love each
other and we want each of us to be true
to our And you keep fighting that she has come
back to multiple times. You've recounted in this conversation how
(43:07):
many times she has come back to you and said,
I want to fix this, I want to make it right.
I want you to be comfortable. And every time you
argue with it, and so this conversation with her just
gets prolonged and it becomes almost an argument where you're
arguing against yourself, and then she has to be the
person who is arguing on your behalf. And I think
(43:29):
what's happening is you're externalizing an internal argument. So you're
making this internal argument that you're having with yourself about well,
how public should I be about this? And how do
I feel about being public about this in front of
my family, in front of all of these people. And
you may have some fear around that, but don't make
Sarah the bad guy in this, because she's not right.
(44:00):
So we're thinking about your situation, and we have two
pieces of advice that we'd like you to try this week, sure,
And the first is that we would like you to
have a different conversation with Sarah than the one that
is getting nowhere, that just keeps going back and forth.
And that is for you to say it is, Sarah,
(44:21):
I am so excited for your big day. I am
so excited for this new chapter of your life, and
I want it to be everything that you want it
to be. And the reason that it's hard for me
to either wear a bridesmaid dress or to wear men's
formal wear is because I am transitioning and I am
in the middle. Right now, and I would like to
(44:43):
go to your wedding in a way that reflects that
middle ground where I actually am in life. And you
have been so gracious and supportive and I so appreciate that,
and I would like to figure out with you what
would make you comfortable that I can wear that reflects
(45:03):
the actual place that I am right now, which is
in that middle ground. And you talk about colors, and
you talk about style, and you talk about whatever it is,
and by the end of that conversation you say, this
is the tailor we have to call. This is the
thing we're going to order, and you get that order
in by next week. Okay, So none of this back
(45:27):
and forth, none of this what do we do? And
oh no, she's going to be displeased. Oh no, then
she thinks, so I'm going to be displeased. I think
you both actually agree. You've already resolved this. You're not
taking away anything from her day. The spotlight is on
her and you're in the middle, and you want to
wear something that reflects that. I think you're both in
agreement on that. So now you just have to execute that.
(45:50):
And so instead of having this internal argument with yourself
that you're now externalizing to Sarah. You can say, wait
a minute, I need to look at why this is
so hard for me to accept your offer. Laurie said
you that you're having this argument in your own head
that you're then externalizing with Sarah. I think that's primarily
because you don't have other trans people to talk to
(46:15):
about very specific situations. You're on a journey that's a marathon,
it's not a sprint, and you really need to have
people who've been through it, who understand it, who are
going through it that you can talk to and you
can share some of these feelings so that you can
get clear in your head that what you feel is
(46:40):
completely valid and legitimate and important. So the second part
of the advice we're giving you that we'd like you
to do this week is to find some kind of
trans support group where you're talking about these things. You
need to have around you people who really truly get
you from experience and not just from love, which is
(47:03):
what you have right now, and that's great, by the way.
So those are the two things. How do you feel
about doing those things. I've actually found a group that
meets every other Sunday with a focus on the transgender community.
I just have not yet made it to a meeting
just because of work constraints, but it is worth it
(47:26):
to take a day off of work to make this
happen and to get the support of people in my shoes.
And it really pained me to hear the first bit
of advice because I'm realizing that I did not say
any of those things. I'm so happy for you, I'm
so excited for your big day, and I really am
thrilled for her and I am excited for her, and
(47:48):
it makes me sad that I haven't vocalized that yet.
So I think both bits are very doable and I
think this will definitely get us past, like you said,
this back and forth of really not getting anything done,
and it will be helpful to hear it too, because
(48:08):
there's so much stress before a wedding, and to say, listen,
I think this got lost in all of the logistics.
I just want to let you know that I am
so excited you found this great person and I hope
to find a great person, and that you are there
just as she has supported you. You are there to
support her that day. And to say it's been hard
(48:29):
for me to accept your support because I'm so worried
about your feelings, and I realize that not accepting your support,
I'm actually making it harder for you. Yeah. Absolutely well,
we wish you luck with this this week. Thank you, guys,
appreciate it so much. What I really liked about Liam
(48:54):
was that he was so resilient. He had been through
so much in his life, and yet every turn he
was able to stay true to himself to get to
the point where he got to today. And I think
there's still a part of him because this is so
new that he's gone public, that isn't so sure about
(49:17):
how to navigate this. And I think because he's been
so resilient, he thinks he should just know how to
do this, And that's why it's so important for him
to be able to talk to other people and have
some community around him. I think what's blogging him a
little bit is that he loves his sisters so much
and his mom, and he's been able to forgive his dad,
(49:37):
and he was able to forgive his former partner and
try again. Is so empathetic that I think that that's
what's blogging him. He's thinking a little too much of
other people's feelings and not prioritizing himself quite enough and
being on the path that he's on will help him
find balance between his own needs and the of the
(50:00):
people around him. You're listening to Dear Therapist from My
Heart Radio. We'll be back after a quick break. So, Laurie,
(50:22):
we heard from Liam. Let's hear what happened. Hi Laurie.
Hi guy. So I spoke with Sarah one last time
and we've come to the conclusion that I will wear
the dress throughout the ceremony and after the ceremony when
we all go to sit down to eat and then
dance later, I'm going to change into a really nice
(50:45):
mauve colored blazer with just some nice pants and a
nice shirt underneath. That way, I can also get a
bunch of photos in that outfit that I feel more
comfortable in, and also my sister can get at her
ceremonial pictures how she likes it. And I did try
to go to an in person support group, but it
(51:07):
does look like the COVID restrictions are still a little
too strict to have those in person meetings. I did
contact the group and they did say that they do
think that they will be open soon, but I am
continuing to look for a virtual support group until I
can make those meetings. So again, I just wanted to
thank you guys so much for listening and sharing my
(51:29):
story and providing me with some really great advice. So
thank you guys so much. I'm really glad that Liam
talked to Sarah. I remember that one of the things
we wanted him to get across to her was how
excited he is for her wedding, and I think that
(51:50):
that somehow maybe got lost in here, even though there's
so much love between the two of them, and so
we didn't hear from Liam whether that happened. I don't
know if it's just hard for the two of them
to communicate because of the discomfort they're having around talking
about something that's hard for both of them. And this
(52:11):
might be hard for Sarah in ways that they haven't
been able to talk about, or Sarah hasn't been able
to talk about for fear of hurting Liam's feelings. So
I'm glad they came to a compromise. I'm not convinced
that the sentiment that we hoped Liam would get across happen,
(52:31):
And I also think it's very common that something very
concrete like a wedding, becomes the focus of a deeper
conversation that needs to be had. And so this just
happened last month. Everybody is all of a sudden talking about, Okay,
Liam is transitioning. What does that mean for how Liam
is going to be at the wedding? And that's one conversation,
(52:54):
but it opens the door for the many conversations that
are going to happen after this. I completely agree. The
one great service this wedding did is it forced them
to have several conversations about Liam's transitioning, which meant that
in the early stages, they already established this is something
(53:14):
we're going to be able to talk about, we're going
to need to talk about, and they already established that precedent,
which will be so valuable going forward with the process
for Liam especially, but for his sisters and family as well.
It's great that Liam is looking into local support groups
because it's really important for him to be able to
(53:35):
talk with other people who are going through what he's
going through. I think Liam is setting the stage for
creating the kind of support around him that will make
this process go as smoothly as possible for him. Yeah,
it's going to be an exciting time ahead for Liam. Hey,
fellow travelers, if you've used any of our advice from
(53:57):
the podcast in your own life, send us a quick
voice memo to Lori and Guy at iHeartMedia dot com
and tell us about it. We may include it in
a future show. Thank you so much for listening. If
you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate
and review it. You can follow us both online. I'm
at Lori Gottlieb dot com and you can follow me
(54:17):
on Twitter at Lori Gottlieb I or on Instagram at
Lori Gottlieb Underscore Author. And I'm at Guywinch dot com.
I'm on Twitter and on Instagram at Guywinch. If you
have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us, big
or small, email us at Lorie and Guy at iHeartMedia
dot com. Our executive producers, Christopher Hasiotis, were produced and
(54:40):
edited by Mike John's Special thanks to Samuel Benefield and
to our podcast Fairy Godmother Katie Currek. Next week, we'll
talk to a mother trying to forge a more open
line of communication with her adult children after years of turmoil.
I don't want to be a word between him and
his wife. I want them to figure it out. And
so I think part of what's been holding me back
(55:02):
is saying I don't want to be in charge of
my children making personal decisions on such a huge scale
because of a comment I might have made. Dear Therapist
is a production of iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
1. Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
2. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
3. Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.