July 16, 2024 • 45 mins
Hey, Fellow Travelers. This week, we explore what happens when a DNA test reveals a shocking surprise. Kristine was adopted and had always hoped to find her biological parents—and in her early twenties, she did. But there was a secret that she—and her biological father—didn't know about. We help her to navigate the fallout as she re-examines her definition of family.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, fellow travelers. I'm Lori Gottlieb. I'm the author of
Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and I write the
Dear Therapist column for the Atlantic. And I'm Guy Wench.
I wrote Emotional First Aid, and I write a Dear
Guy call Umn for Ted. And this is der Therapists.
This week, an adopted woman forms a close relationship with
her biological father, but then a DNA test reveals a
(00:26):
shocking surprise. Growing up, it was super important to me
to have the answers as to who my political parents were,
so it was pretty devastating when the person who was
supposed to be my father wasn't my father and I
had another father there somewhere. Listen in and maybe learn
something about yourself in the process. Hey, just a note
(00:49):
before we start. Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only,
does not constitute medical advice, and is not a substitute
for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the
advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified
health provider with any questions you may have regarding a
medical condition. By submitting a letter, you are agreeing to
(01:11):
let I Heeart media use it in part or in
full and we may edit it for length and or clarity. Hilauri,
Hey guy, Well, we have an interesting letter this week.
Let's get to it. DEA Therapists. I'm an adult adoptee
who reunited with both my birth parents twenty two years ago.
(01:33):
My birth father, whom i'll call Alan, put in his
name at the agency and facilitated the reunion, and he
tracked down my birth mother to give her the chance
to be part of it. All started off well with everyone.
About a year after the reunion, though, my birth mother
dropped out of the permanent picture, though she did make
a few reappearances over the years, the last one ending
badly as she said she was willing to have an
(01:54):
occasional relationship with only me, but not my kids, who
would have wanted a relationship her. I wanted more than
to be some sort of secret daughter. Meanwhile, Alan and
his family have shared a very close and loving relationship
with me and my family in the twenty two years
since our reunion, and it's been wonderful. However, after recently
(02:15):
doing DNA testing, I found out that Allan is not
actually my birth father. Needless to say, that was pretty
shocking news. Allen told me that it doesn't change anything
for him, but I'm heartbroken for him and his family.
Imagine all they've been through. For me, it doesn't change
the fact that he's been an amazing dad and grandpa
for twenty two years. But as I moved forward with
trying to find out the truth of who my real
(02:37):
father is, I feel like we needed to address it.
I reached out to Allan's wife, who has been like
a stepmom to me, for advice, only to discover that
she does not believe in DNA tests. In her mind,
that I walked identically to Uncle Terry was proof that
I was my dad's child. It had been upsetting for me,
and obviously the reality that the man I thought was
my father was lied to all those years ago is
(02:59):
huge for him and his family to deal with. I
suffer a lot of guilt thinking I'm a reminder of
massive pain to them. I also contacting my birth mother,
informed her that they did a DANNA test and that
Allan is not, in fact my birth father. Her response
to me was, this isn't mamma, don't contact me again.
I decided to write to my birth mother's other siblings.
(03:20):
I wanted them to know that I had wanted a
relationship with them all those years. The response was positive,
and now I am trying to navigate a relationship with them,
despite the fact that my birth mother wrote to me
after and told me never to contact any of her
family again. When I told my no longer birth dad
about this, he said, while he wished me the best
with it, he never wanted to hear any of their
(03:41):
names again. My adoptive mum is also not supportive of
my pursuing a relationship with them, so it's a bit tough.
And finally, a third cousin I matched with an ancestry
reached out and has unraveled who my biological father is.
All I know right now is that he was the
same age as my birth mother at the time of
my birth, sixteen and living on the same military base.
(04:03):
I find all of this a bit tricky to navigate.
Being adopted. I already know that family isn't just about blood,
but isn't honestly important or do I just leave that
be and carry on as we always have? Thanks Christine. Wow,
that is such a painful and complicated situation. Painful and
(04:25):
complicated indeed, and there's so many players and so many
of them are hurting, but especially Christine. It sounds like
because it's hard to make sense of one adoption. It's
really hard to make sense when you find out that
the person you thought was your biological dead actually wasn't.
Now you don't know who is Now you have to
(04:46):
start searching all over again. Everyone's hurt, she's not getting support.
It's a really tricky one. Yeah, There's there's so much
layered in here with the secrets and the lies. Carl
June called secret psychic pison, and I think that's what's
happening here too, is that there was this secret that
Allan didn't know about and that Christine didn't know about.
(05:09):
And it's not clear whether her biological mother lied or
whether she didn't know who the father was. So that's
an important piece of information. What I'm ering from a
lot of people is that DNA testing is so widely
available now it's making a lot of people have to
really think through what the definition of family is and
(05:33):
how we define family, and especially in this age where
we are going to find out that a lot of
who we thought were family are not biological family. Yeah, absolutely,
she said, being adopted, I know that family is more
than blood. But I also think family is about openness
(05:53):
and trust and safety and what she's missing right now.
And I'm not sure which pieces of her family she's
going to get this from, but I think she really
needs all three of those components for her to feel
like she has family that feels good to her. You're
listening to Dear Therapist from my Heart Radio. We'll be
(06:14):
back after a quick break. I'm Laurie Gottlieb and I'm
Guy Winch and this is Dea Therapists. Well, let's go
talk to her. Let's so, Hi, Christine, welcome. Great to
have you on our show. Thanks for having me. It's
(06:36):
a very complicated situation that you described, and it sounds
like there's been so many twists and turns, and all
of them so intense and emotional. And I guess, given
so much has happened, as anything else happened since you wrote,
you let it to us. Well, I have no connected
(06:57):
to my apological father, and I've spoken with him on
the phone now and I'm connected to his family. Wo yes,
So tell us about that a little bit, how that
happened and what that was like. So I guess the
individual who connected me to the family through ancestry. He
told the mother, like my political grandmother, that I existed,
(07:21):
and he put me in touch with her. Then she
connected me to my political father and we had a
couple of emails and then decided that it was good
to talk on the phone and chat that way. Was
he surprised to learn that he had a daughter? He
(07:41):
was surprised. So what happened is I sent my political
grandmother a picture of my birth mother from back then
and her name, just to see if she recognized or
new and she didn't. But she showed him the picture
and right away he knew who it was and said, yeah.
We were dating for a few months and then we
(08:03):
broke up and we knew that she went away but
didn't know what had happened. And as she came back
without a baby, no one knew that she had a baby.
So what was it like for him to hear from you?
What was his reaction? I think he's pretty shock and
still taking it in. I can't imagine what it would
(08:24):
be like to suddenly find out that you have a child.
That's a complete shock, which is very different from the
man I was told is my father for the twenty
whatever years before he put his name in on the registry,
had thought he had a child and felt the loss
of that child, and so that was like his impetus
(08:46):
to try to find me. What was it like for you,
because this has been such a long quest, So now
you actually know who both your biological parents are. What
was it like to actually get that answer for you? Well,
it's a huge relief. I mean, growing up was super
important to me to have the answers as to who
(09:07):
my polgical parents were, and so it was pretty devastating
in the period when then the person who was supposed
to be my father wasn't my father and I had
another father out there somewhere. So on the one hand,
it was a big relief. But then I have to
say when I called him, when I was making that
first call, it took me a really long time to
do it. It was very overwhelmed by emotion. Um. So
(09:32):
even talking about it now it's a little hard. Um.
It was also kind of acknowledging that Alan, the man
who was my father for the past twenty two years,
acknowledging that he's being kind of replaced by someone else,
because again I want to have a relationship with him,
and he'll always be a dad. But it was really solidifying,
(09:55):
like this is real, This other person is my father
and not Alan. Do you feel that sense of almost disloyalty. Yes, yeah,
can you say more about that? It does feel like
a bit of a betrayal because Alan has been my
father for the past twenty two years and a really
(10:18):
great father, and so a lot of people when this
all came to light, we're kind of like, well, do
you even need to find someone else? You know, you
have a great person in your life, so isn't that enough?
But it goes back to the first time when I
wanted to find out who my political parents were. It
wasn't any slight against my adoptive family. It was just
(10:41):
this needing to know. But I still feel guilt. I
mean it's been there. I guess from the beginning that
there's this feeling of guilt for any kind of pursuit
of your political family when you're adopted. Yeah, you know,
this is so common. I inc where there's this whole
(11:01):
question of if you want to understand more about where
you came from, which is a basic human need. What
is my identity? Where did I come from? Some people
feel like, well, wait a minute, are we not enough?
We love you, You're our family, and I think this
whole situation brings up this question of what are these
(11:22):
basic human needs about not having secrets and transparency. Could
you tell us a little bit about how you were raised.
My mom and dad were a couple who couldn't have
kids because my mom had a hysterectomy, and so they
adopted my brother, and then they adopted me, and we
were um reasonable family, average, like you know, growing up happy.
(11:47):
My adoptive dad did die the year after I had
the reunion with my other father and biological mother. How
old were you at the time. I was twenty two.
I'd had the reunion with my family and my adoptive
dad died, and so it was a pretty big year.
(12:10):
But I felt like in a way I was losing
one father, and then the universe gave me another father,
which was really wonderful. How was the fact that you
and your brother were both adopted talked about in your family?
So certainly the adoption was a really strong point of contention.
I was given a book and that was about the dialogue,
(12:32):
you know. Otherwise it was like this is supposed to
be secret, Like you know, we don't talk about it.
This is your family, and so I had a hard
time processing it when I was young that I had
parents that would give me away. You know, I had
a lot of questions and nowhere to go with them.
And then I knew as soon as I turned eighteen
and legally I could search myself, I would. And my
(12:56):
adoptive family was very upset with me. Even my brother
or who is also adopted, was not supportive at all
of me searching. Who is supporting you right now in
what's going on. My husband is very supportive. I have
a friend, she's a social worker, and so she was
very helpful and giving insight and information and my initial search.
(13:19):
I'm very grateful for her and other friends that I have,
and you know, even my kids. It's been a bit
eye opening for them, but they are very supportive and
and understanding. I can just see how emotionless is for you.
And it's not just about the discovery of okay, now
I finally connected. It's all these relationships that are being tested.
(13:41):
Which are the ones that are most troubling to you,
not the most important relationships, but which are the relationships
in which the tension is most urgent for you to repair.
I guess with Alan, the you know, the man who
has been my father the past twenty two years, just
making sure that that's okay because he's been such a
(14:02):
wonderful addition to my life and to my children's life,
and you know, I really don't want this to damage
that connection that we have. You were at twenty two
when Alan found you. What was the reaction of your
family since they had not been supportive of you're searching. Well,
(14:24):
initially they were very kind of trepidacious, aloof like not involved.
But over the years, it certainly like it has improved
that you know. Now it has just been like a
big extension of family, Like to the point that my mom,
my adoptive mom, when I told her I was going
(14:46):
to try to find out now who my biological father was,
her reaction was like, oh, poor Alan, you can't do
that to Alan, she related to that because that's how
it felt to her when you wanted to search. Yeah,
what's going to happen if you find these other people
and you have a relationship with them? She was projecting
(15:08):
that onto how Alan might feel. Right, Yeah, I can
see that. So what is the current situation with Allen.
Right now, I'm trying to find a balance of you know, sharing.
It's a big life event, right, and so I feel
like I should be telling my parents about what's happening,
but I worry like that it's hurtful if I'm like,
(15:32):
I've talked to my aboltical father and it was really wonderful. Like,
is that going to be difficult? And I know that
Alan has said that it is hard for him, but
he wants to know and be kept in the loop.
So we're trying to navigate it. It just I worry
(15:54):
every time I, you know, send an update, that it's
going to be really upsetting. What I think is running
through all of these stories is this fear of being
abandoned by people even though you've done nothing wrong. So
you were wondering when you were a little why did
(16:15):
my appearance give me up? Right? And then later you
found Alan, and then you got this information that he
wasn't really your biological father, and I think you're worried
about what are they going to feel the same about me?
And then there became this issue of and now I
found my biological father, and with every revelation there's this
(16:37):
question of who's going to stay with me through this,
Who's going to still love me? And what is going
to happen to these relationships? And that puts you in
a very precarious position emotionally. Yes, what's really compelling here
is that there's this parallel process happening on the other side.
(17:01):
In other words, part of why your mom and Allan
perhaps are having a hard time because there might also
be wondering if she's still going to love us if
she finds these people. And I think that's what's so
difficult here, because it sounds like a lot of you
are in pain and a lot of you are questioning things,
(17:21):
and with each new revelation, it's about, well, what does
that do to our relationship? What does that do to
the love she has for us? What does it do
to the love they have for you? And it sounds
like there's a lot of reassurance that's necessary all around.
How much of that goes on that reassurance from you
to them, from them to you? Is that something that
(17:44):
that's being expressed enough to a degree, But I guess
maybe there could be more on whose part? I feel
like I'm the initiator A lot of the times, like
I have to reach out to people more than people
reach out to me to say, you know, we still
love you and it's going to be fine. Have you
(18:06):
seen a change in your relationship with Alan and his
family since these revelations? Yes? Can you describe what's different?
Before it was just easy, but now it's like, I
feel like I have to take a deep breath. I've
lost that sense of ease that I had before, you know,
(18:26):
and then this worry that wasn't there. It's hard to describe.
This doesn't feel like the connection is the same. Right
there's this question of who am I to you and
who are you to me? Now? Can we find out
a little bit more about your biological mother and what
(18:47):
that experience has been like for you? It sounds incredibly
painful where you've reached out to her and at first
she was somewhat receptive and then she sort of closed
the door, and she did it with not a lot
of sensitivity. So can you talk more about what that
was like for you? In a word, it has been awful.
(19:11):
I think it's every adoptee's worst nightmare to be rejected again,
and with her having been multiple times now and the
time before when I reached out to her to find
out if she would give me any information about my
political father. We've been rebuilding our relationship and things seemed
to be going well, and you know, my kids were
(19:34):
excited because in their mind it was like, oh, you know,
a new part of our family. This is going to
be wonderful. And when I told her that, she just
said like, no, sorry, like your kids have no part
in my family. I don't want to meet them, and
that was it. Does she have children that she had
subsequent to you? Yes, she had a son after me,
(19:56):
about a year after she had me. Oh, still very
yes that she kept. Yes, And did you have any
contact with him? I did in the initial time when
Alan had put his name in and and let them
know he was going to be finding me. Her and
her family were interested, and I met her family, I
(20:18):
met her son, and things were good. But then when
things started to go bad, I could see that as
a son that he could see that his mom was hurting.
And so he was pretty angry by the end about
the reunion and felt like his life had been disrupted
and and everything. So do you know why she was hurting?
(20:41):
I think she was finding the reunion process hard. I
think that with her and Alan, that there were a
lot of unresolved feelings that they were dealing with. There's
kind of a whole side story of their own relationship
and trying to figure out what happened and where they were,
(21:02):
So there was conflict there at the time. What was
her relationship with Alan that made her either believe or
decide to say that Alan was the biological father. She
was fourteen when they started going out, and she was
sixteen when she had me, So they had a long
(21:24):
term relationship. He had given her a promise ring where
they were supposed to be together forever, but then she
moved away and she told him she wanted to see
other people, and one of those other people happened to
be a Bolantal father. But I guess at some point
they must have gotten back together, you know, after she
(21:45):
found ithed she was pregnant, and so Alan then was
led to believe that he was the father and they
were going to run away together to have me. And
the day before they were supposed to leave, she told
him that she had told her parents and that she
was going to be sent away and that was it.
M that must have been such a difficult memory for her.
(22:09):
You're a teenager and you're scared, and you don't know
what to do, and you make this decision to tell
your parents because you need to. And I don't know
how they reacted, but it was a secret. They sent
her away, and that must have been something that was
(22:33):
in some ways shameful in her family. Oh yeah, And
yet when you approached the rest of the family, they
were much more welcoming. It didn't seem like they had
whatever feelings might have been there a long time ago. Yeah. Right,
Given all the experience that you've now had with all
(22:54):
of this, how do you define what family is? Yeah?
I guess at this point, like my best answer is
that it's the people who are there for you, the
people who come into your life and stay there through
(23:15):
thick and thin, and who give love and receive love.
Mm hmm. I think that's an lovely definition. So for you,
that would be who right now, my kids, obviously, my husband,
my mom, Alan, and his wife Susan. Given the definition
(23:36):
you gave us of what family means to you, what
are your hopes for what your relationship with your biological
dad and his mom will be like going forward? Well,
I have to confess I'm hopeful that they will become
family two, but such an early stage of things that
I don't no. His mom is very warm and receptive,
(23:58):
but with him, I haven't had gotten a handle and
so I would say that there is that feeling of
worrying about rejection that has me kind of nervous at
this stage. I want to go back just once worth
this question of what happened with your biological mom. So
(24:18):
initially she was potentially interested in having some kind of
contact with you, and then she didn't want the kind
of contact that you wanted, which was to bring your
whole family into this relationship, and then she got very
closed off. And that comment sticks with me that you
(24:40):
wrote your letter about this isn't Mamma Mia right. There's
your story, and then it's a whole story that happened,
which was your mom had a boyfriend and then she
said I need to see other people, and she had
a different boyfriend, and then the other boyfriend maybe didn't
know about that boyfriend, We don't know, But there was
(25:01):
a whole drama going on with these three people. There
was a whole story going on. But the fact is
that the shadow of that story lives on in what's
happening right now for your mom and for everybody in fact,
I wonder how you've made sense of your mom's reaction
and have you been able to take in it all
(25:21):
the fact that other people in the family on that
side are interested in welcoming you. I don't know how
to make sense really, especially as a mother myself. It's
so hard to figure out why she wouldn't want to
be open to a relationship and why she's so closed off.
(25:43):
I have a really hard time understanding why it's such
a like hard no for her, and with her family
being receptive and and everything, it just it really doesn't
make sense. And they can't shut any in site themselves.
They actually don't know, or they can't because they feel
(26:04):
they need to be loyal to her and they don't
want to share that information with you. I guess that
could be part of it. I think with one of
her siblings like she's more open, and I would say
if like she had insight, I get the impression that
my bogical mother is a very emotionally closed off person.
(26:26):
Did you ever know you're mom's parents because it was
their decision to send her away to have the baby.
Do you know more about them or were they open
to meeting you? Yeah, so I did meet them and
they were very open. I reread all of the initial
letters and cards and everything I got from everyone recently
(26:48):
in going through all of this, and it was very
much like we've been waiting to do this, We've always
thought about you and everything. And even after things got
kind of kai bashed by my violet mother and everyone
else stopped having contact with me, there was a period
of time where I still would get letters from her
(27:11):
mom and she would send magazine subscriptions for my kids.
But then it dwindled off, and I'm not sure why
what happened on their side of things, you know. One
of the painful things in all of this was when
I found the obituary for my grandmother, and it was
really hard to deal with because I guess I naively
(27:33):
always thought that there would be some kind of reconciliation
or some kind of resolution, or like no one would
be gone permanently before there would be that opportunity. And
also by not being notified when you biological grandmother dies,
there's almost like a statement there about who is who
isn't part of the family that you don't even get
(27:55):
to know, and you have been in touch, and she
had been sending these subscriptions to your kids. That must
have been really difficult, but definitely felt like a huge
rejection because I would have thought, at least if someone
was sick or dying, that I would have been given
the opportunity to know at the very least. And then
(28:17):
reading the obituary which then had you know, all the
family listed, and my name wasn't there, and my kid's
names weren't there, So that was very hurtful thing to experience.
I have a question about the relationship between Alan and
your mom. So when Alan discovered you and then got
(28:39):
in touch with your mom, had they been in touch
at all over the years after she came back from
having me. They tried to stay together for a period
of time, and then the month or so after they
just found like the emotion of it was too much.
I think it was a very painful and emotional breakup
for them and light of their substances, and then that
(29:02):
was it, and they just never saw each other and
so hadn't seen each other or talked to each other
or had any kind of insight into each other for
twenty two years and then to be reuniting with the
child that they had given up, and everything opened a
lot of old bombs and a lot of people, you know,
(29:24):
looking from the outside in said to me after things
kind of went downhill that it seemed like she was
more interested in pursuing a relationship with him than she
was with me, even though he was married. Even though
he was married, so many hurt feelings all around, are
(29:45):
you able to focus on yours? I'm a person who
worries about other people's feelings, and I think that goes
back to adoption trauma and always having a worry about
being rejected and people abandoning me. I don't want to
self sabotage on the one hand, and I also don't
(30:06):
want to not consider my own feelings because I have
a tendency to make sure other people are okay and
at my own expense. Which of your relationships is the
one about which you feel most concerned, because I think
imagined Allen before yes, and I think that is the
most important one to me, because their life could have
(30:27):
been totally different if my bod mother had been honest
way back when. You know, it's just been so many
years of heartache for them until they met me, and
then it's been really great, and now it's like this
big bomb and this big betrayal, and so I feel,
I guess at times like it would be hard for
(30:47):
them to even look at me. I want to reframe that,
because yes, there was this time for twenty two years.
That's a long time to say I had this child
out there and I'm longing to connect with that child.
That is a lot of pain for Alan to have
dealt with. But then there's the other piece, which is
(31:09):
that for all of these years you have had this
beautiful relationship with him and his family. You say that
when they look at you, they see this reminder of
trauma and pain, But I think that when they look
at you, they see love and that they love you
(31:29):
so much that they are afraid of losing you. So
I think that what you're seeing in them isn't Oh,
you know, I want to avoid her because she's this
reminder of all of this pain. But I am so
attached to this person, and I'm afraid that our relationship
is going to be changed in a way that is
going to be very sad. And I think it also
(31:53):
is related to what you said that you have this
tendency to worry for other people's feelings more than your own,
and it's possible that you're assuming something that might not
be true. You're assuming that there in pain because you're
a reminder that they might be in pain, because they
see you in pain, and the pain that you might
(32:15):
see in their eyes the pain they see in yours.
This ping pong of pain going back and forth, but
not in any way related to any kind of regret.
You said if their lives would have been very different,
if it's all wouldn't have happened, it would have it
would have been less rich all around. That seems pretty clear,
given the strength of the relationship over so many years.
(32:38):
And so I want to caution you not to assume
that you know what the pain is that they're feeling,
and that you're the cause of it. And it can
also be many things at wance, like with your mother.
It might have been very painful for your mother to
have had a hysterect me and know that she wasn't
(32:59):
going to have a child in the way that she
had imagined, and that when you came into the family,
and your brother came into the family, and you became
those children and you fulfilled that dream for her, And
so there's that feeling of I got to have my kids,
and I love my kids so much, and now that
they found these other families, are they going to leave me?
(33:22):
We all have the same fear about We all love
each other, and there are so many different parts of
this family, and every single person is asking am I
going to get left out? Meaning Alan, his family, your mother,
and maybe even whatever develops with your biological dad and
(33:44):
his mom. And then there's there's your biological mother. You know,
right now the doors is really closed, but I don't
know that that's the end of the story, especially because
you're in touch with part of her family as well.
(34:06):
Maybe we can give you some tools for how you
might talk to say your mom and Alan about what
your experience is, and also allowing some room for you
to reassure them a little bit, which isn't so much
worrying about their feelings, but just to tell them about
the depth of your feeling for them, so that people
(34:27):
aren't wondering there's not this unspoken question lingering in the air.
And I think Christine, one way to do that is
to share with them that one thing that you've been
thinking about with all of this is what defines family,
and and your definition was very specific. It was that
(34:50):
the people who are there for you but consistently, who
remain there for you through the good and the bad,
through the ups and the downs. And I think if
you share that and say that your conclusion from all
of this was that by that definition, they are and
(35:11):
always will be your family and you will always be
their family. And to share that realization with them that
after all of these years, all of these searching, the
ups and the downs and the revelations, that that's what
you do know. And I think it would be really
(35:31):
powerful for you to share that with them and to
see how you feel in sharing that with them. I
think that's good. I think that would be helpful. It
helps me to think of it that way like that
this like, you know, it is my family, and these
are the reasons why. And so I think for me
to tell them that, and you know, for us to
(35:53):
discuss that, I think would probably be good for everyone.
And the aftermath of everything that's happened, um in all
of this, so I think that that would be a
good place to start a conversation about family and what
we mean to each other. And it's also a good
(36:13):
conversation to have with your husband and your kids because
they are a part of this too, to share with
them this is where you've landed at this moment in time,
and I think it will help your kids with whatever
confusion they might have around all of the events, and
it will help your husband to understand more about you
(36:36):
and your experience. Yes, that's a good point too. One
thing to keep in mind, Christine, based on what you've described,
it's possible that Allen or your mom might hear what
you have to say and probably really appreciate what you
have to say, but feel that it might be difficult
(36:57):
for them to enter into deep a discussion of it.
If that's the case, it would be great if you
could do it on a video call, because you might
see the reaction in their eyes more than in the
words they're able two convey to you. If you say
(37:18):
that to them and you see them being very moved
and very touched but unable to go further into the
discussion at that time, that that might be sufficient. Not forever, obviously,
but for that moment. I think that's a really good
point because so much being back and forth by email
or by tex you really miss out on that human
(37:41):
element of it that is in people's expressions and body
language and everything. And they need to see you too,
because they need to see how you feel when you're
conveying that sentiment, you know. I think that would be useful. Yeah.
And as we're talking about seeing them and having them
see you, I think there's a metaphor here, which is
(38:02):
that for a very long time you weren't seeing You
had all these questions, and you said it was such
a relief when you've got this information to finally both
see what the story was and to be seen. And
so just to keep that in your back pocket, that
idea of how important it is to finally be seen
(38:25):
and making these calls to them is a way of
of literally and figuratively being seen. Yes, yeah, I think
that that's important too. I really appreciated the insight. I
think something big for me is just thinking of the
context of sorry have emotional um of everyone being scared
(38:49):
and the fear that everyone has, And I think that
was a really important frame to put things in. You know,
the scariest thing for most humans is the idea that
the love they have will be taken away. Yes, and
I think that every single person here, including your biological mom,
(39:12):
because there's something there, whether it's her, her son who
is angry, or we don't really know. I think every
single person is afraid of losing love. And your message
is wait a minute, this is all about gaining love. Yes, yeah,
that's great. The other good point is not assuming what
(39:35):
other people are thinking, and you're thinking the worst with
Alan in particular, they might be thinking something totally positive,
like not wanting to to lease me. So I think
that's an important shift for me to keep in mind
too as I navigate this. So, thank you so much
for talking with us. Okay, well, thank you, thank you
(39:57):
so much, Christine. We look forward to hearing back from you. Thanks.
So I'm sitting here, I'm feeling this heaviness, this pain
of so many people hurting on the one hand, and
so many people who found love on the other. I'm
(40:19):
sure she's going to go ahead and do it. The
people she's going to say it too, well, I hope
they'll be touched by it. I hope they'll be reassured
by I hope they'll be able to verbalize something in return.
They might feel a little overwhelmed. But if she doesn't
get that response in the actual call, I'm pretty sure
she'll get it thereafter in some way. Yeah. I think
(40:42):
with these kinds of situations, they're evolving, they're very live,
and it takes time to really figure out what it
all means when you get new information like this on
this scale. So I think there is a good beginning
to not having this guessing game going on between I
(41:06):
wonder what they're feeling. I wonder how she feels about me.
But for her to just say I want you to
know how much I love you, I want you to
know this is how I think about family, and I
think that's a great place for her to start. So
I'm really interested to hear how it felt for her
to be able to do that. This is Dear Therapists
(41:30):
and we'll be back after a short break. You're listening
to Dear Therapists from my Heart Radio. So we heard
back from Christine. Oh wow, I really hope that went well.
Let's give it a listen, Hilari and Guy. I'm just
(41:51):
circling back on our conversation and my homework. I wanted
to update you. I had my face to face conversations
with most of my family members now and it has
been really healing. So much has been skirted around or
perhaps lost in translations of messages, emails, and calls till now.
It was really good to get down to the meat
of our feelings for a change and directly address elephant
that's been in the room since getting the shocking DNA results.
(42:14):
I think they appreciate hearing my definition of family, but
was really powerful was the acknowledgment of our mutual fear
of loss. Thank you for servicing that for all of us.
I really mulled over that fear of loss of love
aspect in my head since talking to you, and it's
really really helped me see things through a new lens
that makes me feel less insecure on a bigger scale.
(42:34):
I also think it helps me see my fellow travelers
in life in a gentler light, knowing we all share
that common fear. Thank you for helping me to get
the confidence to navigate this tumultus family situation and a
new lens to view things through. I love that she
(42:55):
got right to the heart of it, which is they
were all struggling with the same thingng with I'm worried
that I'm going to lose these people that I love,
and that they were receptive to hearing it when she
framed it in that way. And I think what's really
powerful was that we spoke just to her. But this
(43:16):
is what happens in therapy as well. When somebody gains
a certain insight that's related to their family, it really
has a ripple effect and it can impact an entire system,
and in this case, a really complex system. And so
they all had that awakening in a way. Right, if
just one person opens up a conversation that nobody knew
(43:37):
how to broach, what a relief it is for everybody
to have, as she said, the elephant in the room
out in the open. And now people could say me too,
I feel that way too, or I'm so glad you
brought this up because I was feeling this and I
didn't know how to talk about it, and I was scared.
And I think that scared is important because there was
(43:57):
a lot of fear on all sides. Everybody was just
so afraid of losing something. And once you can voice
that fear, then you can say, oh, wait a minute,
maybe that fear is unfounded. We actually don't want anything
to happen to the bonds that we have. Right Once
you remove the fear, what you're left with is the
love that brings us to the end of our show.
(44:24):
For this week, thank you so much for listening. If
you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate
and review it. You can follow us both online. I'm
at Lori Gottlieb dot com and you can follow me
on Twitter at Lori Gottlieb I or on Instagram at
Lori Gottlieb Underscore Author and I'm at guy Winch dot com.
(44:44):
I'm on Twitter and on Instagram at guy Wench. If
you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,
big or small, email us at Lorian guy at I
heart Media dot com. Our executive producers Christopher hascy Otis
were produced and edited by Mike john On special thanks
to Samuel Bennefield and to our podcast Fairy Godmother Katie Correct.
(45:06):
Next week, a teacher talks to us about the challenges
are being physically separated from her students. I have students.
When it comes up at the end of the hour,
we'll say I can't believe this is almost over. This
is the time during the week that I don't feel
lonely and that's just heartbreaking. Dear Therapists is a production
of I Heart Radio
Hey, fellow travelers. I'm Lori Gottlieb. I'm the author of
Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and I write the
Dear Therapist column for the Atlantic. And I'm Guy Wench.
I wrote Emotional First Aid, and I write a Dear
Guy call Umn for Ted. And this is der Therapists.
This week, an adopted woman forms a close relationship with
her biological father, but then a DNA test reveals a
(00:26):
shocking surprise. Growing up, it was super important to me
to have the answers as to who my political parents were,
so it was pretty devastating when the person who was
supposed to be my father wasn't my father and I
had another father there somewhere. Listen in and maybe learn
something about yourself in the process. Hey, just a note
(00:49):
before we start. Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only,
does not constitute medical advice, and is not a substitute
for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the
advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified
health provider with any questions you may have regarding a
medical condition. By submitting a letter, you are agreeing to
(01:11):
let I Heeart media use it in part or in
full and we may edit it for length and or clarity. Hilauri,
Hey guy, Well, we have an interesting letter this week.
Let's get to it. DEA Therapists. I'm an adult adoptee
who reunited with both my birth parents twenty two years ago.
(01:33):
My birth father, whom i'll call Alan, put in his
name at the agency and facilitated the reunion, and he
tracked down my birth mother to give her the chance
to be part of it. All started off well with everyone.
About a year after the reunion, though, my birth mother
dropped out of the permanent picture, though she did make
a few reappearances over the years, the last one ending
badly as she said she was willing to have an
(01:54):
occasional relationship with only me, but not my kids, who
would have wanted a relationship her. I wanted more than
to be some sort of secret daughter. Meanwhile, Alan and
his family have shared a very close and loving relationship
with me and my family in the twenty two years
since our reunion, and it's been wonderful. However, after recently
(02:15):
doing DNA testing, I found out that Allan is not
actually my birth father. Needless to say, that was pretty
shocking news. Allen told me that it doesn't change anything
for him, but I'm heartbroken for him and his family.
Imagine all they've been through. For me, it doesn't change
the fact that he's been an amazing dad and grandpa
for twenty two years. But as I moved forward with
trying to find out the truth of who my real
(02:37):
father is, I feel like we needed to address it.
I reached out to Allan's wife, who has been like
a stepmom to me, for advice, only to discover that
she does not believe in DNA tests. In her mind,
that I walked identically to Uncle Terry was proof that
I was my dad's child. It had been upsetting for me,
and obviously the reality that the man I thought was
my father was lied to all those years ago is
(02:59):
huge for him and his family to deal with. I
suffer a lot of guilt thinking I'm a reminder of
massive pain to them. I also contacting my birth mother,
informed her that they did a DANNA test and that
Allan is not, in fact my birth father. Her response
to me was, this isn't mamma, don't contact me again.
I decided to write to my birth mother's other siblings.
(03:20):
I wanted them to know that I had wanted a
relationship with them all those years. The response was positive,
and now I am trying to navigate a relationship with them,
despite the fact that my birth mother wrote to me
after and told me never to contact any of her
family again. When I told my no longer birth dad
about this, he said, while he wished me the best
with it, he never wanted to hear any of their
(03:41):
names again. My adoptive mum is also not supportive of
my pursuing a relationship with them, so it's a bit tough.
And finally, a third cousin I matched with an ancestry
reached out and has unraveled who my biological father is.
All I know right now is that he was the
same age as my birth mother at the time of
my birth, sixteen and living on the same military base.
(04:03):
I find all of this a bit tricky to navigate.
Being adopted. I already know that family isn't just about blood,
but isn't honestly important or do I just leave that
be and carry on as we always have? Thanks Christine. Wow,
that is such a painful and complicated situation. Painful and
(04:25):
complicated indeed, and there's so many players and so many
of them are hurting, but especially Christine. It sounds like
because it's hard to make sense of one adoption. It's
really hard to make sense when you find out that
the person you thought was your biological dead actually wasn't.
Now you don't know who is Now you have to
(04:46):
start searching all over again. Everyone's hurt, she's not getting support.
It's a really tricky one. Yeah, There's there's so much
layered in here with the secrets and the lies. Carl
June called secret psychic pison, and I think that's what's
happening here too, is that there was this secret that
Allan didn't know about and that Christine didn't know about.
(05:09):
And it's not clear whether her biological mother lied or
whether she didn't know who the father was. So that's
an important piece of information. What I'm ering from a
lot of people is that DNA testing is so widely
available now it's making a lot of people have to
really think through what the definition of family is and
(05:33):
how we define family, and especially in this age where
we are going to find out that a lot of
who we thought were family are not biological family. Yeah, absolutely,
she said, being adopted, I know that family is more
than blood. But I also think family is about openness
(05:53):
and trust and safety and what she's missing right now.
And I'm not sure which pieces of her family she's
going to get this from, but I think she really
needs all three of those components for her to feel
like she has family that feels good to her. You're
listening to Dear Therapist from my Heart Radio. We'll be
(06:14):
back after a quick break. I'm Laurie Gottlieb and I'm
Guy Winch and this is Dea Therapists. Well, let's go
talk to her. Let's so, Hi, Christine, welcome. Great to
have you on our show. Thanks for having me. It's
(06:36):
a very complicated situation that you described, and it sounds
like there's been so many twists and turns, and all
of them so intense and emotional. And I guess, given
so much has happened, as anything else happened since you wrote,
you let it to us. Well, I have no connected
(06:57):
to my apological father, and I've spoken with him on
the phone now and I'm connected to his family. Wo yes,
So tell us about that a little bit, how that
happened and what that was like. So I guess the
individual who connected me to the family through ancestry. He
told the mother, like my political grandmother, that I existed,
(07:21):
and he put me in touch with her. Then she
connected me to my political father and we had a
couple of emails and then decided that it was good
to talk on the phone and chat that way. Was
he surprised to learn that he had a daughter? He
(07:41):
was surprised. So what happened is I sent my political
grandmother a picture of my birth mother from back then
and her name, just to see if she recognized or
new and she didn't. But she showed him the picture
and right away he knew who it was and said, yeah.
We were dating for a few months and then we
(08:03):
broke up and we knew that she went away but
didn't know what had happened. And as she came back
without a baby, no one knew that she had a baby.
So what was it like for him to hear from you?
What was his reaction? I think he's pretty shock and
still taking it in. I can't imagine what it would
(08:24):
be like to suddenly find out that you have a child.
That's a complete shock, which is very different from the
man I was told is my father for the twenty
whatever years before he put his name in on the registry,
had thought he had a child and felt the loss
of that child, and so that was like his impetus
(08:46):
to try to find me. What was it like for you,
because this has been such a long quest, So now
you actually know who both your biological parents are. What
was it like to actually get that answer for you? Well,
it's a huge relief. I mean, growing up was super
important to me to have the answers as to who
(09:07):
my polgical parents were, and so it was pretty devastating
in the period when then the person who was supposed
to be my father wasn't my father and I had
another father out there somewhere. So on the one hand,
it was a big relief. But then I have to
say when I called him, when I was making that
first call, it took me a really long time to
do it. It was very overwhelmed by emotion. Um. So
(09:32):
even talking about it now it's a little hard. Um.
It was also kind of acknowledging that Alan, the man
who was my father for the past twenty two years,
acknowledging that he's being kind of replaced by someone else,
because again I want to have a relationship with him,
and he'll always be a dad. But it was really solidifying,
(09:55):
like this is real, This other person is my father
and not Alan. Do you feel that sense of almost disloyalty. Yes, yeah,
can you say more about that? It does feel like
a bit of a betrayal because Alan has been my
father for the past twenty two years and a really
(10:18):
great father, and so a lot of people when this
all came to light, we're kind of like, well, do
you even need to find someone else? You know, you
have a great person in your life, so isn't that enough?
But it goes back to the first time when I
wanted to find out who my political parents were. It
wasn't any slight against my adoptive family. It was just
(10:41):
this needing to know. But I still feel guilt. I
mean it's been there. I guess from the beginning that
there's this feeling of guilt for any kind of pursuit
of your political family when you're adopted. Yeah, you know,
this is so common. I inc where there's this whole
(11:01):
question of if you want to understand more about where
you came from, which is a basic human need. What
is my identity? Where did I come from? Some people
feel like, well, wait a minute, are we not enough?
We love you, You're our family, and I think this
whole situation brings up this question of what are these
(11:22):
basic human needs about not having secrets and transparency. Could
you tell us a little bit about how you were raised.
My mom and dad were a couple who couldn't have
kids because my mom had a hysterectomy, and so they
adopted my brother, and then they adopted me, and we
were um reasonable family, average, like you know, growing up happy.
(11:47):
My adoptive dad did die the year after I had
the reunion with my other father and biological mother. How
old were you at the time. I was twenty two.
I'd had the reunion with my family and my adoptive
dad died, and so it was a pretty big year.
(12:10):
But I felt like in a way I was losing
one father, and then the universe gave me another father,
which was really wonderful. How was the fact that you
and your brother were both adopted talked about in your family?
So certainly the adoption was a really strong point of contention.
I was given a book and that was about the dialogue,
(12:32):
you know. Otherwise it was like this is supposed to
be secret, Like you know, we don't talk about it.
This is your family, and so I had a hard
time processing it when I was young that I had
parents that would give me away. You know, I had
a lot of questions and nowhere to go with them.
And then I knew as soon as I turned eighteen
and legally I could search myself, I would. And my
(12:56):
adoptive family was very upset with me. Even my brother
or who is also adopted, was not supportive at all
of me searching. Who is supporting you right now in
what's going on. My husband is very supportive. I have
a friend, she's a social worker, and so she was
very helpful and giving insight and information and my initial search.
(13:19):
I'm very grateful for her and other friends that I have,
and you know, even my kids. It's been a bit
eye opening for them, but they are very supportive and
and understanding. I can just see how emotionless is for you.
And it's not just about the discovery of okay, now
I finally connected. It's all these relationships that are being tested.
(13:41):
Which are the ones that are most troubling to you,
not the most important relationships, but which are the relationships
in which the tension is most urgent for you to repair.
I guess with Alan, the you know, the man who
has been my father the past twenty two years, just
making sure that that's okay because he's been such a
(14:02):
wonderful addition to my life and to my children's life,
and you know, I really don't want this to damage
that connection that we have. You were at twenty two
when Alan found you. What was the reaction of your
family since they had not been supportive of you're searching. Well,
(14:24):
initially they were very kind of trepidacious, aloof like not involved.
But over the years, it certainly like it has improved
that you know. Now it has just been like a
big extension of family, Like to the point that my mom,
my adoptive mom, when I told her I was going
(14:46):
to try to find out now who my biological father was,
her reaction was like, oh, poor Alan, you can't do
that to Alan, she related to that because that's how
it felt to her when you wanted to search. Yeah,
what's going to happen if you find these other people
and you have a relationship with them? She was projecting
(15:08):
that onto how Alan might feel. Right, Yeah, I can
see that. So what is the current situation with Allen.
Right now, I'm trying to find a balance of you know, sharing.
It's a big life event, right, and so I feel
like I should be telling my parents about what's happening,
but I worry like that it's hurtful if I'm like,
(15:32):
I've talked to my aboltical father and it was really wonderful. Like,
is that going to be difficult? And I know that
Alan has said that it is hard for him, but
he wants to know and be kept in the loop.
So we're trying to navigate it. It just I worry
(15:54):
every time I, you know, send an update, that it's
going to be really upsetting. What I think is running
through all of these stories is this fear of being
abandoned by people even though you've done nothing wrong. So
you were wondering when you were a little why did
(16:15):
my appearance give me up? Right? And then later you
found Alan, and then you got this information that he
wasn't really your biological father, and I think you're worried
about what are they going to feel the same about me?
And then there became this issue of and now I
found my biological father, and with every revelation there's this
(16:37):
question of who's going to stay with me through this,
Who's going to still love me? And what is going
to happen to these relationships? And that puts you in
a very precarious position emotionally. Yes, what's really compelling here
is that there's this parallel process happening on the other side.
(17:01):
In other words, part of why your mom and Allan
perhaps are having a hard time because there might also
be wondering if she's still going to love us if
she finds these people. And I think that's what's so
difficult here, because it sounds like a lot of you
are in pain and a lot of you are questioning things,
(17:21):
and with each new revelation, it's about, well, what does
that do to our relationship? What does that do to
the love she has for us? What does it do
to the love they have for you? And it sounds
like there's a lot of reassurance that's necessary all around.
How much of that goes on that reassurance from you
to them, from them to you? Is that something that
(17:44):
that's being expressed enough to a degree, But I guess
maybe there could be more on whose part? I feel
like I'm the initiator A lot of the times, like
I have to reach out to people more than people
reach out to me to say, you know, we still
love you and it's going to be fine. Have you
(18:06):
seen a change in your relationship with Alan and his
family since these revelations? Yes? Can you describe what's different?
Before it was just easy, but now it's like, I
feel like I have to take a deep breath. I've
lost that sense of ease that I had before, you know,
(18:26):
and then this worry that wasn't there. It's hard to describe.
This doesn't feel like the connection is the same. Right
there's this question of who am I to you and
who are you to me? Now? Can we find out
a little bit more about your biological mother and what
(18:47):
that experience has been like for you? It sounds incredibly
painful where you've reached out to her and at first
she was somewhat receptive and then she sort of closed
the door, and she did it with not a lot
of sensitivity. So can you talk more about what that
was like for you? In a word, it has been awful.
(19:11):
I think it's every adoptee's worst nightmare to be rejected again,
and with her having been multiple times now and the
time before when I reached out to her to find
out if she would give me any information about my
political father. We've been rebuilding our relationship and things seemed
to be going well, and you know, my kids were
(19:34):
excited because in their mind it was like, oh, you know,
a new part of our family. This is going to
be wonderful. And when I told her that, she just
said like, no, sorry, like your kids have no part
in my family. I don't want to meet them, and
that was it. Does she have children that she had
subsequent to you? Yes, she had a son after me,
(19:56):
about a year after she had me. Oh, still very
yes that she kept. Yes, And did you have any
contact with him? I did in the initial time when
Alan had put his name in and and let them
know he was going to be finding me. Her and
her family were interested, and I met her family, I
(20:18):
met her son, and things were good. But then when
things started to go bad, I could see that as
a son that he could see that his mom was hurting.
And so he was pretty angry by the end about
the reunion and felt like his life had been disrupted
and and everything. So do you know why she was hurting?
(20:41):
I think she was finding the reunion process hard. I
think that with her and Alan, that there were a
lot of unresolved feelings that they were dealing with. There's
kind of a whole side story of their own relationship
and trying to figure out what happened and where they were,
(21:02):
So there was conflict there at the time. What was
her relationship with Alan that made her either believe or
decide to say that Alan was the biological father. She
was fourteen when they started going out, and she was
sixteen when she had me, So they had a long
(21:24):
term relationship. He had given her a promise ring where
they were supposed to be together forever, but then she
moved away and she told him she wanted to see
other people, and one of those other people happened to
be a Bolantal father. But I guess at some point
they must have gotten back together, you know, after she
(21:45):
found ithed she was pregnant, and so Alan then was
led to believe that he was the father and they
were going to run away together to have me. And
the day before they were supposed to leave, she told
him that she had told her parents and that she
was going to be sent away and that was it.
M that must have been such a difficult memory for her.
(22:09):
You're a teenager and you're scared, and you don't know
what to do, and you make this decision to tell
your parents because you need to. And I don't know
how they reacted, but it was a secret. They sent
her away, and that must have been something that was
(22:33):
in some ways shameful in her family. Oh yeah, And
yet when you approached the rest of the family, they
were much more welcoming. It didn't seem like they had
whatever feelings might have been there a long time ago. Yeah. Right,
Given all the experience that you've now had with all
(22:54):
of this, how do you define what family is? Yeah?
I guess at this point, like my best answer is
that it's the people who are there for you, the
people who come into your life and stay there through
(23:15):
thick and thin, and who give love and receive love.
Mm hmm. I think that's an lovely definition. So for you,
that would be who right now, my kids, obviously, my husband,
my mom, Alan, and his wife Susan. Given the definition
(23:36):
you gave us of what family means to you, what
are your hopes for what your relationship with your biological
dad and his mom will be like going forward? Well,
I have to confess I'm hopeful that they will become
family two, but such an early stage of things that
I don't no. His mom is very warm and receptive,
(23:58):
but with him, I haven't had gotten a handle and
so I would say that there is that feeling of
worrying about rejection that has me kind of nervous at
this stage. I want to go back just once worth
this question of what happened with your biological mom. So
(24:18):
initially she was potentially interested in having some kind of
contact with you, and then she didn't want the kind
of contact that you wanted, which was to bring your
whole family into this relationship, and then she got very
closed off. And that comment sticks with me that you
(24:40):
wrote your letter about this isn't Mamma Mia right. There's
your story, and then it's a whole story that happened,
which was your mom had a boyfriend and then she
said I need to see other people, and she had
a different boyfriend, and then the other boyfriend maybe didn't
know about that boyfriend, We don't know, But there was
(25:01):
a whole drama going on with these three people. There
was a whole story going on. But the fact is
that the shadow of that story lives on in what's
happening right now for your mom and for everybody in fact,
I wonder how you've made sense of your mom's reaction
and have you been able to take in it all
(25:21):
the fact that other people in the family on that
side are interested in welcoming you. I don't know how
to make sense really, especially as a mother myself. It's
so hard to figure out why she wouldn't want to
be open to a relationship and why she's so closed off.
(25:43):
I have a really hard time understanding why it's such
a like hard no for her, and with her family
being receptive and and everything, it just it really doesn't
make sense. And they can't shut any in site themselves.
They actually don't know, or they can't because they feel
(26:04):
they need to be loyal to her and they don't
want to share that information with you. I guess that
could be part of it. I think with one of
her siblings like she's more open, and I would say
if like she had insight, I get the impression that
my bogical mother is a very emotionally closed off person.
(26:26):
Did you ever know you're mom's parents because it was
their decision to send her away to have the baby.
Do you know more about them or were they open
to meeting you? Yeah, so I did meet them and
they were very open. I reread all of the initial
letters and cards and everything I got from everyone recently
(26:48):
in going through all of this, and it was very
much like we've been waiting to do this, We've always
thought about you and everything. And even after things got
kind of kai bashed by my violet mother and everyone
else stopped having contact with me, there was a period
of time where I still would get letters from her
(27:11):
mom and she would send magazine subscriptions for my kids.
But then it dwindled off, and I'm not sure why
what happened on their side of things, you know. One
of the painful things in all of this was when
I found the obituary for my grandmother, and it was
really hard to deal with because I guess I naively
(27:33):
always thought that there would be some kind of reconciliation
or some kind of resolution, or like no one would
be gone permanently before there would be that opportunity. And
also by not being notified when you biological grandmother dies,
there's almost like a statement there about who is who
isn't part of the family that you don't even get
(27:55):
to know, and you have been in touch, and she
had been sending these subscriptions to your kids. That must
have been really difficult, but definitely felt like a huge
rejection because I would have thought, at least if someone
was sick or dying, that I would have been given
the opportunity to know at the very least. And then
(28:17):
reading the obituary which then had you know, all the
family listed, and my name wasn't there, and my kid's
names weren't there, So that was very hurtful thing to experience.
I have a question about the relationship between Alan and
your mom. So when Alan discovered you and then got
(28:39):
in touch with your mom, had they been in touch
at all over the years after she came back from
having me. They tried to stay together for a period
of time, and then the month or so after they
just found like the emotion of it was too much.
I think it was a very painful and emotional breakup
for them and light of their substances, and then that
(29:02):
was it, and they just never saw each other and
so hadn't seen each other or talked to each other
or had any kind of insight into each other for
twenty two years and then to be reuniting with the
child that they had given up, and everything opened a
lot of old bombs and a lot of people, you know,
(29:24):
looking from the outside in said to me after things
kind of went downhill that it seemed like she was
more interested in pursuing a relationship with him than she
was with me, even though he was married. Even though
he was married, so many hurt feelings all around, are
(29:45):
you able to focus on yours? I'm a person who
worries about other people's feelings, and I think that goes
back to adoption trauma and always having a worry about
being rejected and people abandoning me. I don't want to
self sabotage on the one hand, and I also don't
(30:06):
want to not consider my own feelings because I have
a tendency to make sure other people are okay and
at my own expense. Which of your relationships is the
one about which you feel most concerned, because I think
imagined Allen before yes, and I think that is the
most important one to me, because their life could have
(30:27):
been totally different if my bod mother had been honest
way back when. You know, it's just been so many
years of heartache for them until they met me, and
then it's been really great, and now it's like this
big bomb and this big betrayal, and so I feel,
I guess at times like it would be hard for
(30:47):
them to even look at me. I want to reframe that,
because yes, there was this time for twenty two years.
That's a long time to say I had this child
out there and I'm longing to connect with that child.
That is a lot of pain for Alan to have
dealt with. But then there's the other piece, which is
(31:09):
that for all of these years you have had this
beautiful relationship with him and his family. You say that
when they look at you, they see this reminder of
trauma and pain, But I think that when they look
at you, they see love and that they love you
(31:29):
so much that they are afraid of losing you. So
I think that what you're seeing in them isn't Oh,
you know, I want to avoid her because she's this
reminder of all of this pain. But I am so
attached to this person, and I'm afraid that our relationship
is going to be changed in a way that is
going to be very sad. And I think it also
(31:53):
is related to what you said that you have this
tendency to worry for other people's feelings more than your own,
and it's possible that you're assuming something that might not
be true. You're assuming that there in pain because you're
a reminder that they might be in pain, because they
see you in pain, and the pain that you might
(32:15):
see in their eyes the pain they see in yours.
This ping pong of pain going back and forth, but
not in any way related to any kind of regret.
You said if their lives would have been very different,
if it's all wouldn't have happened, it would have it
would have been less rich all around. That seems pretty clear,
given the strength of the relationship over so many years.
(32:38):
And so I want to caution you not to assume
that you know what the pain is that they're feeling,
and that you're the cause of it. And it can
also be many things at wance, like with your mother.
It might have been very painful for your mother to
have had a hysterect me and know that she wasn't
(32:59):
going to have a child in the way that she
had imagined, and that when you came into the family,
and your brother came into the family, and you became
those children and you fulfilled that dream for her, And
so there's that feeling of I got to have my kids,
and I love my kids so much, and now that
they found these other families, are they going to leave me?
(33:22):
We all have the same fear about We all love
each other, and there are so many different parts of
this family, and every single person is asking am I
going to get left out? Meaning Alan, his family, your mother,
and maybe even whatever develops with your biological dad and
(33:44):
his mom. And then there's there's your biological mother. You know,
right now the doors is really closed, but I don't
know that that's the end of the story, especially because
you're in touch with part of her family as well.
(34:06):
Maybe we can give you some tools for how you
might talk to say your mom and Alan about what
your experience is, and also allowing some room for you
to reassure them a little bit, which isn't so much
worrying about their feelings, but just to tell them about
the depth of your feeling for them, so that people
(34:27):
aren't wondering there's not this unspoken question lingering in the air.
And I think Christine, one way to do that is
to share with them that one thing that you've been
thinking about with all of this is what defines family,
and and your definition was very specific. It was that
(34:50):
the people who are there for you but consistently, who
remain there for you through the good and the bad,
through the ups and the downs. And I think if
you share that and say that your conclusion from all
of this was that by that definition, they are and
(35:11):
always will be your family and you will always be
their family. And to share that realization with them that
after all of these years, all of these searching, the
ups and the downs and the revelations, that that's what
you do know. And I think it would be really
(35:31):
powerful for you to share that with them and to
see how you feel in sharing that with them. I
think that's good. I think that would be helpful. It
helps me to think of it that way like that
this like, you know, it is my family, and these
are the reasons why. And so I think for me
to tell them that, and you know, for us to
(35:53):
discuss that, I think would probably be good for everyone.
And the aftermath of everything that's happened, um in all
of this, so I think that that would be a
good place to start a conversation about family and what
we mean to each other. And it's also a good
(36:13):
conversation to have with your husband and your kids because
they are a part of this too, to share with
them this is where you've landed at this moment in time,
and I think it will help your kids with whatever
confusion they might have around all of the events, and
it will help your husband to understand more about you
(36:36):
and your experience. Yes, that's a good point too. One
thing to keep in mind, Christine, based on what you've described,
it's possible that Allen or your mom might hear what
you have to say and probably really appreciate what you
have to say, but feel that it might be difficult
(36:57):
for them to enter into deep a discussion of it.
If that's the case, it would be great if you
could do it on a video call, because you might
see the reaction in their eyes more than in the
words they're able two convey to you. If you say
(37:18):
that to them and you see them being very moved
and very touched but unable to go further into the
discussion at that time, that that might be sufficient. Not forever, obviously,
but for that moment. I think that's a really good
point because so much being back and forth by email
or by tex you really miss out on that human
(37:41):
element of it that is in people's expressions and body
language and everything. And they need to see you too,
because they need to see how you feel when you're
conveying that sentiment, you know. I think that would be useful. Yeah.
And as we're talking about seeing them and having them
see you, I think there's a metaphor here, which is
(38:02):
that for a very long time you weren't seeing You
had all these questions, and you said it was such
a relief when you've got this information to finally both
see what the story was and to be seen. And
so just to keep that in your back pocket, that
idea of how important it is to finally be seen
(38:25):
and making these calls to them is a way of
of literally and figuratively being seen. Yes, yeah, I think
that that's important too. I really appreciated the insight. I
think something big for me is just thinking of the
context of sorry have emotional um of everyone being scared
(38:49):
and the fear that everyone has, And I think that
was a really important frame to put things in. You know,
the scariest thing for most humans is the idea that
the love they have will be taken away. Yes, and
I think that every single person here, including your biological mom,
(39:12):
because there's something there, whether it's her, her son who
is angry, or we don't really know. I think every
single person is afraid of losing love. And your message
is wait a minute, this is all about gaining love. Yes, yeah,
that's great. The other good point is not assuming what
(39:35):
other people are thinking, and you're thinking the worst with
Alan in particular, they might be thinking something totally positive,
like not wanting to to lease me. So I think
that's an important shift for me to keep in mind
too as I navigate this. So, thank you so much
for talking with us. Okay, well, thank you, thank you
(39:57):
so much, Christine. We look forward to hearing back from you. Thanks.
So I'm sitting here, I'm feeling this heaviness, this pain
of so many people hurting on the one hand, and
so many people who found love on the other. I'm
(40:19):
sure she's going to go ahead and do it. The
people she's going to say it too, well, I hope
they'll be touched by it. I hope they'll be reassured
by I hope they'll be able to verbalize something in return.
They might feel a little overwhelmed. But if she doesn't
get that response in the actual call, I'm pretty sure
she'll get it thereafter in some way. Yeah. I think
(40:42):
with these kinds of situations, they're evolving, they're very live,
and it takes time to really figure out what it
all means when you get new information like this on
this scale. So I think there is a good beginning
to not having this guessing game going on between I
(41:06):
wonder what they're feeling. I wonder how she feels about me.
But for her to just say I want you to
know how much I love you, I want you to
know this is how I think about family, and I
think that's a great place for her to start. So
I'm really interested to hear how it felt for her
to be able to do that. This is Dear Therapists
(41:30):
and we'll be back after a short break. You're listening
to Dear Therapists from my Heart Radio. So we heard
back from Christine. Oh wow, I really hope that went well.
Let's give it a listen, Hilari and Guy. I'm just
(41:51):
circling back on our conversation and my homework. I wanted
to update you. I had my face to face conversations
with most of my family members now and it has
been really healing. So much has been skirted around or
perhaps lost in translations of messages, emails, and calls till now.
It was really good to get down to the meat
of our feelings for a change and directly address elephant
that's been in the room since getting the shocking DNA results.
(42:14):
I think they appreciate hearing my definition of family, but
was really powerful was the acknowledgment of our mutual fear
of loss. Thank you for servicing that for all of us.
I really mulled over that fear of loss of love
aspect in my head since talking to you, and it's
really really helped me see things through a new lens
that makes me feel less insecure on a bigger scale.
(42:34):
I also think it helps me see my fellow travelers
in life in a gentler light, knowing we all share
that common fear. Thank you for helping me to get
the confidence to navigate this tumultus family situation and a
new lens to view things through. I love that she
(42:55):
got right to the heart of it, which is they
were all struggling with the same thingng with I'm worried
that I'm going to lose these people that I love,
and that they were receptive to hearing it when she
framed it in that way. And I think what's really
powerful was that we spoke just to her. But this
(43:16):
is what happens in therapy as well. When somebody gains
a certain insight that's related to their family, it really
has a ripple effect and it can impact an entire system,
and in this case, a really complex system. And so
they all had that awakening in a way. Right, if
just one person opens up a conversation that nobody knew
(43:37):
how to broach, what a relief it is for everybody
to have, as she said, the elephant in the room
out in the open. And now people could say me too,
I feel that way too, or I'm so glad you
brought this up because I was feeling this and I
didn't know how to talk about it, and I was scared.
And I think that scared is important because there was
(43:57):
a lot of fear on all sides. Everybody was just
so afraid of losing something. And once you can voice
that fear, then you can say, oh, wait a minute,
maybe that fear is unfounded. We actually don't want anything
to happen to the bonds that we have. Right Once
you remove the fear, what you're left with is the
love that brings us to the end of our show.
(44:24):
For this week, thank you so much for listening. If
you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate
and review it. You can follow us both online. I'm
at Lori Gottlieb dot com and you can follow me
on Twitter at Lori Gottlieb I or on Instagram at
Lori Gottlieb Underscore Author and I'm at guy Winch dot com.
(44:44):
I'm on Twitter and on Instagram at guy Wench. If
you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,
big or small, email us at Lorian guy at I
heart Media dot com. Our executive producers Christopher hascy Otis
were produced and edited by Mike john On special thanks
to Samuel Bennefield and to our podcast Fairy Godmother Katie Correct.
(45:06):
Next week, a teacher talks to us about the challenges
are being physically separated from her students. I have students.
When it comes up at the end of the hour,
we'll say I can't believe this is almost over. This
is the time during the week that I don't feel
lonely and that's just heartbreaking. Dear Therapists is a production
of I Heart Radio
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