July 24, 2024 • 30 mins
Hey, Fellow Travelers. This week, a dedicated young teacher deals with the guilt of not being able to connect with her students while being physically separated from them during the pandemic. But it isn’t just her students who are craving connection. We help Allison navigate through her own loss as well.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, fellow travelers. I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of
Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and I write the
Dear Therapist column for The Atlantic. And I'm Guy Wench.
I wrote Emotional First Aid, and I write a Dear
Guy column for Ted. And this is der Therapists. This week,
a teacher talks to us about the challenges of being
physically separated from her students by her students, who, when
(00:26):
it comes up at the end of the hour will say,
I can't believe this is almost over. This is the
time during the week that I don't feel lonely. I'm
that's just heartbreaking. Listen in and maybe learn something about
yourself in the process. The therapist is for informational purposes only,
does not constitute medical advice, and is not a substitute
(00:48):
for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the
advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified
health provider with any questions you may have regarding a
medical condition. By submitting a letter, you are agreeing to
let I help media use it in potterm and full
and we may edit it for length and of clarity.
(01:09):
Hey guy, Hilri So this week we got a letter
from a teacher, and I'm gonna read it to you.
Dear Lorian guy. I am a teacher who is now
transitioning to online learning with all of my ninth grade
math and science students. Trying to be a good teacher
in the midst of this pandemic has taken a toll
on me. I love teaching math and science, but I
(01:29):
also became a teacher to be a source of emotional
support to kids because I recognize that students can't learn
well while stressed or distracted. For me to feel like
I'm teaching them well, I need to be addressing a
wide variety of needs. Teenagers don't often ask for help verbally.
Typically it is through behavior, But now I can't really
see changes in their behavior over here comments or pull
(01:50):
them aside to check in, but I know they need it.
I feel bad about not being able to offer my
usual level of support to these kids, and on top
of that, I'm trying to take care of myself. My
boyfriend and I don't live in the same town, so
we spend several hours together online each night, watching movies, shows,
playing games, or researching future activities, and I find that
regular interaction very helpful. Overall, though, I'm feeling very restless
(02:15):
and feel a deep yearning for face to face interaction.
I've been organizing and cleaning, taking baths, talking to friends
on the phone or on video calls, sitting outside, and
going for walks. I also like to plan ahead and
have things to look forward to, and not knowing when
this will end feels very daunting. I had trips to
visit my boyfriend planned, as well as trips to Australia
(02:36):
and Indonesia. I'm finding that the stress of not being
able to help my students in the same way as
I used to, along with the need to care for
myself daunting. My question is how do I do both well?
And this is assigned from Allison. I wish I had
Allison as my teacher. Yeah, a lot of teachers feel
(02:56):
like her in that they are not going into just
part academic knowledge. They really want to connect with our students.
That's an important part of their jobs. And I can
just imagine how difficult it must be to teach with
the remote learning going on, to not be able to
have that face to face, informal kind of connection with
(03:20):
them and chickens and be able to talk to them
must be a real luss for her. I think what
people are noticing during these times when they can't go
to work, like people in lawison situation, is that they're
noticing what was meaningful to them about what they did
every day. But a lot of times we complain about work,
and you know, I wish I could take the day off,
(03:42):
but I think we actually get a lot of nourishment
from the little things and the big things. But some
little things are talking to our coworkers in the hallways,
or having lunch with somebody, or the chit chat. And
sometimes it's about the work itself, like with Allison, where
she gets so so much out of being the kind
(04:02):
of teacher that matters. She loses so much of this
sense of purpose that she had when she would go
to work every day. Yes, and I think that's a
really profound loss of this time. And she's got a
bunch of them. I mean, these trips, they these are
not small trips Indonesia and Australia. These are big trips
that probably planned for quite a while. And I think
(04:24):
she said that she enjoys that process of planning as well.
You get excited about planning trips, and now you have
to spend almost exactly amount of time trying to cancel everything.
That is super depressing. When you were talking about losing
those vacations, I had two reactions in the first was
the reaction I think a lot of us have, which
(04:45):
is about she can always go later. But then there's
the other reaction, which is that there's no hierarchy of grief.
And we talk about this with our patients all the time.
People will come in and they'll be talking about something
and they're embarrassed ring it up. They'll say, yeah, I
have this problem, but hey, I know a lot of
people have it worse, and that prevents people from looking
(05:06):
at their problems. This isn't the pain Olympics. This isn't
the grief Olympics. So right now, a lot of people
feel like if it's not about loss of life, loss
of health, or loss of a job or income, we
can't really talk about these losses like they're missing their
book club, the daily things of life, that the things
that make us feel human on a daily basis. I
(05:27):
think that sometimes because we worry that other people will
minimize our losses, we tend to do that to ourselves.
I knew, she said, I think they're making me depressed.
So that's good. That's good that she can acknowledge that
she's struggling. And I think it's appropriate to struggle given
the circumstance. Sometimes people are having bad days and they're
wondering whether they're failing at self care or whether they're
(05:48):
not managing, when in fact they're managing pretty much as
well as you can manage. You're listening to Dear Therapists
from I Heart Radio. We'll get Alison on the phone
after a quick break. I'm Lori Gottlieb and I'm Guy
Winch and this is the A Therapists. So we talked
(06:10):
about Allison's letter about being disconnected from her students during
the pandemic. Let's talk to Alison herself. Hi Allison, Hi,
Hi Allison, Hello, thank you so much for coming on
our show. We read your letter and we were really
impressed by how dedicated you sound as a teacher, and
(06:30):
I'd like to hear a little bit more about what
are your touch points with students pre COVID when you're
teaching them in person, and what are the touch points
you have with them now when you're doing the remote
learning what are the differences? So pre COVID, I spent
about three hours with each of my classes each day.
(06:54):
I teach two separate Grade nine classes. I teach both
of them their math courses and their science courses, and
I consider it pretty significant because it's more time and
they spend with their parents based to face it, So
I take that pretty seriously. So throughout the day, I
can check in on them, I can observe any changes
(07:15):
of behavior, um, I can overhear their conversations, and I'm
also seeing how well they're working in class and how
focused they can be, which is often an indicator of
how well they're doing overall. But now they have far
less contact with them, and from what I've heard from them,
they are struggling and they are looking for that connection,
but they don't necessarily know how to find it. Can
(07:36):
kids set up an individual time to talk with you.
They're definitely more than welcome to set up an individual
time to talk with me. But my office hours are
scheduled one hour on Tuesday and one on Thursday. But
what I'm finding most interesting is that during my office hour,
I have a group of kids that I would not
have picked out as the ones who would come to
(07:57):
my office hour had I've been asked for it, And
they don't often actually want to talk about any of
the academic things. They'll ask me questions for the first
five or ten minutes, and then they want to show
me their room, or they want to show me their pet,
or they want to tell me what trouble they've got
in with their parents. But it's not nearly the same.
And I know that they're craving it because I have
(08:18):
students who, when it comes up at the end of
the hour, will say, I can't believe this is almost over.
This is the time during the week that I don't
feel lonely, and that's just heartbreaking. They get so much
out of connecting with you. It's interesting because you're concern
in your letter is that you're not able to give
(08:39):
them that kind of support that you normally would give
them at school, and yet it might not be the
way that it normally happens. They are saying, you matter
so much to me, you make me feel less lonely.
Let me show you my dog, let me show you
my room. So I think sometimes we don't realize the
impact that we have on other people, just because it
(09:00):
so different right now. Yeah, it's it's true. I just
worry about the kids who don't have that self advocacy
tool set. I used to have class meetings with my
home room and we would go around and thank each other,
and oftentimes they would thank me for something that I
had said two weeks prior. You never know what, what
(09:20):
little comment that you make that makes a huge difference
to them. And oftentimes it was kids that I didn't
feel personally that I had that deep connection with. But
you learn that that they really take what you say
pretty seriously and it does matter to them quite a bit,
right And I think even this act of them wanting
(09:40):
to show you their room or their pets, that's such
a personal invitation into their lives. It's such a trust
thing for a kid to do. So it's very clear
they have this really strong connection with you if they're
doing that kind of thing. Last week I offered to
show my house to them and I had the highest
(10:01):
attendance that week. Did you clean up? Yeah? Must have prepared.
So I have a question about what happens during school.
You said you might overhear something between classes, or you'll
notice something. What's an example of something where maybe you
overheard a conversation, or you just noticed something. Because you
(10:23):
were physically there, I could hear anything from the a
couple has broken up, or someone's parent lost a job,
or someone's father's in the hospital, or just just really anything.
You find out so much about these kids lives. I
often say that the parents would be mortified if they
(10:44):
knew how much I knew about their home life. You
mentioned travel in your letter. You had a trip to
Indonesia to Australia that you've had to cancel. Can you
tell us a little bit about what travel means to
you and maybe one of the meaningful experiences you've had
and travel that that vidy resonates with you. So, uh,
(11:08):
last year I had my first really big trip and
I actually went with my dad. My mom passed away
and unexpectedly about two years ago, and so he and
I planned a really big trip together. And so that
kind of gave me just a taste for the travel
bug in terms of going outside of North America. And
so this summer I was planning to go to Australian
(11:30):
Indonesia with a friend of mine. We have spent hours
and hours planning and I put aside a whole bunch
of money for this trip, and I was to celebrate
my thirtieth birthday. And so it's been a huge loss
for me because I've lost a whole bunch of money
and I just have so much time to think about
(11:51):
it now that we're in COVID and there's not a
ton of structure to my day. I definitely am someone
who likes to plan and look forward to things. I still,
fortunately have had the trips with my boyfriend because we
have decided that it's just more important for both of
our mental health and for to s our overall well being.
(12:15):
And uh, we're just extremely careful. You know. What I'm
hearing so much of and what you just said and
what we were talking about with your students is the
sense of loss. I think that when we think about
going to work right a lot of times maybe people think, oh,
I wish I could sleep in or I wish I
didn't have to go every day, But we get so
much out of going to work. For you, a lot
(12:39):
of it is your connection with your students. In addition
to what you like about teaching the academic side of things,
I imagine you have relationship with your coworkers and you
miss seeing them as well. There's the routine of our
lives that we're losing. And here with the travel you mentioned,
you experienced, first of all, a huge law A couple
(13:00):
of years ago you lost your mother, and your mother
now in this time is not here. So I think
that that is a big loss to go through something
so incredibly difficult and not have your mother here to
talk to. Yeah, it is. I think about it quite
a bit. There's just a lot of things, whether it's
(13:21):
how to follow a certain recipe or how to do
something in my house that she would normally know. There's
a significant loss there and I've really tried to build
that up with a variety of people in my life
to kind of piece together what I've lost, But it
will never be the same. What would you what do
you imagine you would be talking to her about right now? Oh?
(13:42):
I probably call her multiple times a day and it
would just be about a different project or she would
often give me creative ideas of what to do with
my students. Um she often knew all of my students
by name. She would look forward to the crazy stories
of the thing is up to but really just everything
and laughing at the same time. The thing about this
(14:05):
pandemic is that sometimes it brings up other big losses
that we've had, And so I imagine that it's not
just not being able to talk to your mom right now,
but it might bring up what it was like a
couple of years ago when you lost her, and you
were talking about your relationship with your dad and how
(14:25):
much traveling with him felt so good, how much you
get out of planning and anticipating these trips, And now
you've had this other trip canceled that was not only
just a trip, which is fun in and of itself,
but it was a trip to celebrate your thirtieth birthday.
(14:46):
And so there are all these layers of loss in here.
There are There are a lot of layers. My dad
actually ended up in the i c U last weekend
critical condition, and he's home now, but he was there
for ten days and it was a bit touch and go,
and that certainly spiked a lot of fear in me
(15:06):
and a lot of memories of losing my mom. But
it was all the more difficult because I just don't
have people around here right now. I think that's one
of the real hardships that everyone is going through at
the moment is that when life events happen like your
dad ends up in the hospital in the ICU, you
can't be with anyone, and you also probably can't go
(15:27):
on really visit him. Were you able to visit, I
don't know if you live close enough, is that something
you could do. We actually live on opposite sides of
the country. But when he went into the hospital, I
certainly had my eye on a plane ticket. Um. I
had a similar experience with my mom passed. She was
on a cruise and so I had to really quickly
(15:49):
find my way to Florida to be with my dad.
So I just kind of seemed like, Okay, here we
go again. But at the end of this one, I
might not have any parents left. Thankfully didn't happen, um,
but I was. I was really expecting to have to
go home and take care of my brothers and just
kind of fix everything out. Yeah. So it's trauma that
(16:11):
activates trauma that sounds like you've really been through a rough,
rough couple of weeks. Yeah, which makes teaching and being
emotionally present and available for my students even more difficult.
I'm wondering, as you're talking about this was taking care
of you. Yeah, I mean, right now, it is it
is just me physically here. I'm pretty drained from video
(16:35):
chat at this point. It's really just not the same,
and uh, it's it's pretty hard. But I have an
incredible group of friends. I've collected a lot of really
wonderful people in my life. And then my boyfriend's pretty
amazing too, So he and I spend a number of
hours on the phone each night and that really helps me.
(16:57):
And you're turning thirty. Yeah, don't tell anybody, you know,
We'll keep it secret. It's just a podcast. My boyfriend
sent me a pretty extravagant gifts that took me a
while too to like fully work through. And basically he
(17:18):
sent me a puzzle. I really loved puzzles, and he
uh bought me a thousand piece puzzle, put it together himself,
and flipped it over and wrote me a secret message
on the back and then took it apart and sent
it to me. But parts of it were missing, and
so then when he arrived for his trip, he brought
the rest of the puzzle pieces and I got to
(17:40):
finish the letter. So that was probably the best part
of my birthday. That is beautiful and so creative, and
I bet made you feel so seen because that was
such a specific kind of gift, which is the best
kind of gift, where it's specifically meant something to you
(18:02):
in a way that it would not to anybody else. Yeah,
he even sent me the glue so I could glue
it together and then afraid. So that's a thousand pieces
that didn't happen in one setting for sure, and so
that's amazing gift. We could see why you miss being
with him. Yeah, and it's pretty significant to He's willing
(18:22):
to travel during a pandemic to see me, so I'm
thankful for that. So what do you think turning thirty
will be like now without these trips. I have a
bit of a bucket list and one of the items
on my bucket list is to snarkle the Great Berry
Reef and that was what my immediate family gave me
(18:45):
money for to do on that trip to Australia, so
that was what I was really looking forward to. So
it's kind of a thirtieth birthday celebration event plus a
bucket list item. So in my mind, I fully intend
to still go to Australia at some point. We want
(19:12):
to offer you some suggestions. So the first thing is
that we know that it's important for you to be
there for your students, and you can still do that
even if you can't catch them in the hallway for
a chat. And so what we'd like you to do
is to think about maybe sending videos to your kids,
like maybe make a video once a week for them
(19:34):
with maybe a tip, maybe some humor, maybe some reassurance,
whatever you would offer them in person. That becomes something
fun for them and a way for you to connect
with them and then get them involved. So it's not
one way, so it's not just you're putting out a video,
but you get their feedback, Like you can put out
a question to them like how are you coping? Do
(19:54):
you have tips for your classmates and they can post
them with the video. Are there any other subjects you'd
like me to cover, and then have them suggest like
what the topic of next week's video will be. And
that will also help you to get a window into
what maybe is going on in their hearts and minds
as well. So there's a real sense of community, a
sense of fun, a sense of students communicating with each
(20:16):
other and communicating with you. And getting them to participate,
and maybe that would feel even though it's not the
same as spontaneously running into them at school, it would
be a new way of connecting with them that isn't
just and here's your algebra assignment. And we also think
you know them well enough that even if they're not
telling you some of the things they're struggling with, you
(20:37):
can probably anticipate and address them without naming any students,
but just in those general videos that you send and
thereby know that you're actually touching them in that way. Yeah, definitely, So, Alison,
we have another piece of advice for you. Since you
love trips and the planning and the traveling, and since
you were planning to have a real celebration of your
(20:59):
thirtieth birthday your friend in Australia and Indonesia and in
snarkling the great barrier reef which you won't be able
to do. One thing we had is that there might
be a way to take some virtual trips with your friends,
perhaps perhaps even with a friend with whom you were
going to go to Australia and Indonesia. And one way
(21:20):
we've been thinking of how you might do that is
to choose a destination when you haven't chosen so far
that isn't on your list, and then to plan an
evening where you both agree on a recipe and cook
together a recipe from the area that you'll be visiting.
That you each dress up in whatever the local garb
(21:40):
is and then do a reveal and kind of show
each other how you got dressed up, and then take
a virtual tour in a local museum or heritage site.
A lot of those have virtual tours that you can
take and then even learn a phrase in the local
language or if it's English, a local dialect or accents, pronunciations,
(22:02):
whatever makes it fun, and teach it to the other person.
But if once a month you have some kind of
virtual travel planned, it can keep your travel routine alive
and well even during the pandemic and the shutdowns. What's
fun about this is there are some surprises built into
(22:22):
it that make it different. So when you are thinking
of I'm going to teach my friend or my boyfriend
the phrase in the language of that country, find something
that's very personal, just like the puzzle was for your birthday,
and it's almost like giving them a gift in another language.
The point is to just have some kind of adventure
and surprise that's in connection with somebody else on a
(22:46):
regular basis, so that it does kind of break up
the routine in the monotony, and it also gives you
that pleasure that you lost of planning and anticipation, which
seems really fun for you. Yeah, that sounds like a
really fun idea, just to go to different places, and um,
I'll save me a lot of money, that's right. We
(23:08):
have one last piece of advice. We feel like we
enumerated the losses for you, but we don't know how
much you've enumerated your losses to other people. And it's
really important to acknowledge what you're going through with the
people who care about you, because then it kind of
lightens you up. You're not carrying that burden inside and
(23:30):
wondering why you're feeling the way you're feeling. And you'll
get a lot of support and compassion when you talk
to your boyfriend or your friends, your family about what
you're actually experiencing. So we just want you to be
able to have one conversation with a friend about, Hey,
you know what, even though I'm doing relatively well, I
have some hard days and here are some of the
(23:51):
things that I noticed that I don't have in my
life anymore. And just see what it feels like for
someone to mirror back to you. Yeah, I get it,
I see you, hear you, I understand you. So how
does that all sound to you? I mean it sounds good,
sounds um like there's some structure to be added, which
(24:13):
is something that I create, and uh, it all sounds
pretty fun. I think my kids would like a video
for sure, so I'm sure that they will will respond
pretty positively to that. That's a great idea, wonderful. All Right, Allison,
It's been a pleasure speaking with you, and we look
forward to hearing how things go for you this week.
(24:33):
Thank you. Yeah, it's been awesome. Thanks so much for
sharing this with us. Allison. You're listening to Dear Therapist
from my Heart Radio. We'll be back after a quick break. So, guy,
(25:01):
we heard back from Allison. Remember, we only asked that
to get back to us about the assignment for her students.
The other suggestions with for her to do in her
own time read let's take a listen. So I decided
to make a little video of myself sitting on my
couch talking about how bored I am at home and
how much I'm missing my students, and uh I talked
(25:23):
about how we were likely in day six thousand if
I have counted correctly, and so they must be just
as bored as I am. And I asked them some
questions about what they're doing, see if they could provide
anyone else some suggestions on how to stay busy and
connected during this pandemic. And I also asked them to
do something kind for a family member and to reply
(25:48):
with how that went, if they're comfortable. And I was
posting this on my Google classroom, and I posted it
just as an option for them. They didn't have to
do it, they have to watch my video. But I
got the most immediate response then compared to any of
the other actual assignments and posts, and most of them
(26:09):
responded as though they were talking directly to me. I
called a few students out in my video about specific
things that I miss about them, and in future videos,
I'm planning to eventually mention each student in my home
own class and something that I'm missing about them. And
it was pretty incredible to see their reaction and to
(26:29):
see that they are seeking that connection and that they
still they're missing school. Despite kids notoriously saying that they
don't like school, I think they really do and I
think they are missing it big time right now. It
really helped me as well, because it helps me to
feel connected to them and helped me feel like I
was still connecting and doing a good job for them.
(26:51):
So it was really great advice. Wow, that was beautiful.
She took the suggestions and then used her intuition as
a teacher to really know how to reach her students.
(27:14):
So I love that part where she called out specific
students and that she's going to call out her whole
home room and talk about what she appreciates about them,
but also the piece about where she asked them to
do something kind for someone else during this time, because
she knows intuitively as a teacher that when we reach
out and do something for someone else, it actually boost
(27:36):
our own sense of well being absolutely. And I think
when she said at the end that that video got
the quickest response from her students. I tend to think
that teach us sometimes underestimate the impact they have on
their students, underestimate the meaningfulness of the connection they do
(27:57):
have with their students, and maybe quite realize how powerful
that connection is. You know, students want to show her
their own she's showing them her apartment. I really hope
she realizes how significant a role she's playing in their
lives and in many lives. Also. It's interesting we gave
her an assignment and to watch a teacher do an assignment,
(28:19):
and she did it so beautifully because she did it
from the heart, and she added her own specific pieces
to the assignment and she got something out of it.
Her students got something out of it. And I think
if we were to grade her on her assignment, not
that great people on what we do here, but she
(28:40):
would get an A plus. Hey, fellow travelers, if you've
used any of our advice from the podcast in your
own life, send us a quick voice memo to Lorie
and Guy at I heart media dot com and tell
us about it. We may include it in a future
show that brings us to the end of our show
(29:01):
for this week. Thank you so much for listening. If
you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate
and review it. You can follow us both online. I'm
at Lori Gottlieb dot com and you can follow me
on Twitter at Lori Gottlieb one or on Instagram at
Lori Gottlieb Underscore Author, and I'm at guy Winch dot com.
(29:22):
I'm on Twitter and on Instagram at guy Wench. If
you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,
big or small, email us at Lorian guy at I
heart Media dot com. Our executive producers Christopher hasci Otis
were produced and edited by Mike John's Special thanks to
Samuel Bennefield and to our podcast Fairy Godmother Katie Currect.
(29:44):
Next week, a new father worries that his parents constant
criticisms could be as damaging to his child as they
were to him. I called my mom and it was
a snotty, crying mess and told her, when you say
those things, that makes me feel really bad. And I've
been working really hard to accept myself. I love myself
and it just really hurts. I'd appreciate if you didn't.
(30:06):
And her response was something along the lines of you
think you've got problems, get over it. Deer Therapist is
a production of I Heart Radio
Hey, fellow travelers. I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of
Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and I write the
Dear Therapist column for The Atlantic. And I'm Guy Wench.
I wrote Emotional First Aid, and I write a Dear
Guy column for Ted. And this is der Therapists. This week,
a teacher talks to us about the challenges of being
physically separated from her students by her students, who, when
(00:26):
it comes up at the end of the hour will say,
I can't believe this is almost over. This is the
time during the week that I don't feel lonely. I'm
that's just heartbreaking. Listen in and maybe learn something about
yourself in the process. The therapist is for informational purposes only,
does not constitute medical advice, and is not a substitute
(00:48):
for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the
advice of your physician, mental health professional, or other qualified
health provider with any questions you may have regarding a
medical condition. By submitting a letter, you are agreeing to
let I help media use it in potterm and full
and we may edit it for length and of clarity.
(01:09):
Hey guy, Hilri So this week we got a letter
from a teacher, and I'm gonna read it to you.
Dear Lorian guy. I am a teacher who is now
transitioning to online learning with all of my ninth grade
math and science students. Trying to be a good teacher
in the midst of this pandemic has taken a toll
on me. I love teaching math and science, but I
(01:29):
also became a teacher to be a source of emotional
support to kids because I recognize that students can't learn
well while stressed or distracted. For me to feel like
I'm teaching them well, I need to be addressing a
wide variety of needs. Teenagers don't often ask for help verbally.
Typically it is through behavior, But now I can't really
see changes in their behavior over here comments or pull
(01:50):
them aside to check in, but I know they need it.
I feel bad about not being able to offer my
usual level of support to these kids, and on top
of that, I'm trying to take care of myself. My
boyfriend and I don't live in the same town, so
we spend several hours together online each night, watching movies, shows,
playing games, or researching future activities, and I find that
regular interaction very helpful. Overall, though, I'm feeling very restless
(02:15):
and feel a deep yearning for face to face interaction.
I've been organizing and cleaning, taking baths, talking to friends
on the phone or on video calls, sitting outside, and
going for walks. I also like to plan ahead and
have things to look forward to, and not knowing when
this will end feels very daunting. I had trips to
visit my boyfriend planned, as well as trips to Australia
(02:36):
and Indonesia. I'm finding that the stress of not being
able to help my students in the same way as
I used to, along with the need to care for
myself daunting. My question is how do I do both well?
And this is assigned from Allison. I wish I had
Allison as my teacher. Yeah, a lot of teachers feel
(02:56):
like her in that they are not going into just
part academic knowledge. They really want to connect with our students.
That's an important part of their jobs. And I can
just imagine how difficult it must be to teach with
the remote learning going on, to not be able to
have that face to face, informal kind of connection with
(03:20):
them and chickens and be able to talk to them
must be a real luss for her. I think what
people are noticing during these times when they can't go
to work, like people in lawison situation, is that they're
noticing what was meaningful to them about what they did
every day. But a lot of times we complain about work,
and you know, I wish I could take the day off,
(03:42):
but I think we actually get a lot of nourishment
from the little things and the big things. But some
little things are talking to our coworkers in the hallways,
or having lunch with somebody, or the chit chat. And
sometimes it's about the work itself, like with Allison, where
she gets so so much out of being the kind
(04:02):
of teacher that matters. She loses so much of this
sense of purpose that she had when she would go
to work every day. Yes, and I think that's a
really profound loss of this time. And she's got a
bunch of them. I mean, these trips, they these are
not small trips Indonesia and Australia. These are big trips
that probably planned for quite a while. And I think
(04:24):
she said that she enjoys that process of planning as well.
You get excited about planning trips, and now you have
to spend almost exactly amount of time trying to cancel everything.
That is super depressing. When you were talking about losing
those vacations, I had two reactions in the first was
the reaction I think a lot of us have, which
(04:45):
is about she can always go later. But then there's
the other reaction, which is that there's no hierarchy of grief.
And we talk about this with our patients all the time.
People will come in and they'll be talking about something
and they're embarrassed ring it up. They'll say, yeah, I
have this problem, but hey, I know a lot of
people have it worse, and that prevents people from looking
(05:06):
at their problems. This isn't the pain Olympics. This isn't
the grief Olympics. So right now, a lot of people
feel like if it's not about loss of life, loss
of health, or loss of a job or income, we
can't really talk about these losses like they're missing their
book club, the daily things of life, that the things
that make us feel human on a daily basis. I
(05:27):
think that sometimes because we worry that other people will
minimize our losses, we tend to do that to ourselves.
I knew, she said, I think they're making me depressed.
So that's good. That's good that she can acknowledge that
she's struggling. And I think it's appropriate to struggle given
the circumstance. Sometimes people are having bad days and they're
wondering whether they're failing at self care or whether they're
(05:48):
not managing, when in fact they're managing pretty much as
well as you can manage. You're listening to Dear Therapists
from I Heart Radio. We'll get Alison on the phone
after a quick break. I'm Lori Gottlieb and I'm Guy
Winch and this is the A Therapists. So we talked
(06:10):
about Allison's letter about being disconnected from her students during
the pandemic. Let's talk to Alison herself. Hi Allison, Hi,
Hi Allison, Hello, thank you so much for coming on
our show. We read your letter and we were really
impressed by how dedicated you sound as a teacher, and
(06:30):
I'd like to hear a little bit more about what
are your touch points with students pre COVID when you're
teaching them in person, and what are the touch points
you have with them now when you're doing the remote
learning what are the differences? So pre COVID, I spent
about three hours with each of my classes each day.
(06:54):
I teach two separate Grade nine classes. I teach both
of them their math courses and their science courses, and
I consider it pretty significant because it's more time and
they spend with their parents based to face it, So
I take that pretty seriously. So throughout the day, I
can check in on them, I can observe any changes
(07:15):
of behavior, um, I can overhear their conversations, and I'm
also seeing how well they're working in class and how
focused they can be, which is often an indicator of
how well they're doing overall. But now they have far
less contact with them, and from what I've heard from them,
they are struggling and they are looking for that connection,
but they don't necessarily know how to find it. Can
(07:36):
kids set up an individual time to talk with you.
They're definitely more than welcome to set up an individual
time to talk with me. But my office hours are
scheduled one hour on Tuesday and one on Thursday. But
what I'm finding most interesting is that during my office hour,
I have a group of kids that I would not
have picked out as the ones who would come to
(07:57):
my office hour had I've been asked for it, And
they don't often actually want to talk about any of
the academic things. They'll ask me questions for the first
five or ten minutes, and then they want to show
me their room, or they want to show me their pet,
or they want to tell me what trouble they've got
in with their parents. But it's not nearly the same.
And I know that they're craving it because I have
(08:18):
students who, when it comes up at the end of
the hour, will say, I can't believe this is almost over.
This is the time during the week that I don't
feel lonely, and that's just heartbreaking. They get so much
out of connecting with you. It's interesting because you're concern
in your letter is that you're not able to give
(08:39):
them that kind of support that you normally would give
them at school, and yet it might not be the
way that it normally happens. They are saying, you matter
so much to me, you make me feel less lonely.
Let me show you my dog, let me show you
my room. So I think sometimes we don't realize the
impact that we have on other people, just because it
(09:00):
so different right now. Yeah, it's it's true. I just
worry about the kids who don't have that self advocacy
tool set. I used to have class meetings with my
home room and we would go around and thank each other,
and oftentimes they would thank me for something that I
had said two weeks prior. You never know what, what
(09:20):
little comment that you make that makes a huge difference
to them. And oftentimes it was kids that I didn't
feel personally that I had that deep connection with. But
you learn that that they really take what you say
pretty seriously and it does matter to them quite a bit,
right And I think even this act of them wanting
(09:40):
to show you their room or their pets, that's such
a personal invitation into their lives. It's such a trust
thing for a kid to do. So it's very clear
they have this really strong connection with you if they're
doing that kind of thing. Last week I offered to
show my house to them and I had the highest
(10:01):
attendance that week. Did you clean up? Yeah? Must have prepared.
So I have a question about what happens during school.
You said you might overhear something between classes, or you'll
notice something. What's an example of something where maybe you
overheard a conversation, or you just noticed something. Because you
(10:23):
were physically there, I could hear anything from the a
couple has broken up, or someone's parent lost a job,
or someone's father's in the hospital, or just just really anything.
You find out so much about these kids lives. I
often say that the parents would be mortified if they
(10:44):
knew how much I knew about their home life. You
mentioned travel in your letter. You had a trip to
Indonesia to Australia that you've had to cancel. Can you
tell us a little bit about what travel means to
you and maybe one of the meaningful experiences you've had
and travel that that vidy resonates with you. So, uh,
(11:08):
last year I had my first really big trip and
I actually went with my dad. My mom passed away
and unexpectedly about two years ago, and so he and
I planned a really big trip together. And so that
kind of gave me just a taste for the travel
bug in terms of going outside of North America. And
so this summer I was planning to go to Australian
(11:30):
Indonesia with a friend of mine. We have spent hours
and hours planning and I put aside a whole bunch
of money for this trip, and I was to celebrate
my thirtieth birthday. And so it's been a huge loss
for me because I've lost a whole bunch of money
and I just have so much time to think about
(11:51):
it now that we're in COVID and there's not a
ton of structure to my day. I definitely am someone
who likes to plan and look forward to things. I still,
fortunately have had the trips with my boyfriend because we
have decided that it's just more important for both of
our mental health and for to s our overall well being.
(12:15):
And uh, we're just extremely careful. You know. What I'm
hearing so much of and what you just said and
what we were talking about with your students is the
sense of loss. I think that when we think about
going to work right a lot of times maybe people think, oh,
I wish I could sleep in or I wish I
didn't have to go every day, But we get so
much out of going to work. For you, a lot
(12:39):
of it is your connection with your students. In addition
to what you like about teaching the academic side of things,
I imagine you have relationship with your coworkers and you
miss seeing them as well. There's the routine of our
lives that we're losing. And here with the travel you mentioned,
you experienced, first of all, a huge law A couple
(13:00):
of years ago you lost your mother, and your mother
now in this time is not here. So I think
that that is a big loss to go through something
so incredibly difficult and not have your mother here to
talk to. Yeah, it is. I think about it quite
a bit. There's just a lot of things, whether it's
(13:21):
how to follow a certain recipe or how to do
something in my house that she would normally know. There's
a significant loss there and I've really tried to build
that up with a variety of people in my life
to kind of piece together what I've lost, But it
will never be the same. What would you what do
you imagine you would be talking to her about right now? Oh?
(13:42):
I probably call her multiple times a day and it
would just be about a different project or she would
often give me creative ideas of what to do with
my students. Um she often knew all of my students
by name. She would look forward to the crazy stories
of the thing is up to but really just everything
and laughing at the same time. The thing about this
(14:05):
pandemic is that sometimes it brings up other big losses
that we've had, And so I imagine that it's not
just not being able to talk to your mom right now,
but it might bring up what it was like a
couple of years ago when you lost her, and you
were talking about your relationship with your dad and how
(14:25):
much traveling with him felt so good, how much you
get out of planning and anticipating these trips, And now
you've had this other trip canceled that was not only
just a trip, which is fun in and of itself,
but it was a trip to celebrate your thirtieth birthday.
(14:46):
And so there are all these layers of loss in here.
There are There are a lot of layers. My dad
actually ended up in the i c U last weekend
critical condition, and he's home now, but he was there
for ten days and it was a bit touch and go,
and that certainly spiked a lot of fear in me
(15:06):
and a lot of memories of losing my mom. But
it was all the more difficult because I just don't
have people around here right now. I think that's one
of the real hardships that everyone is going through at
the moment is that when life events happen like your
dad ends up in the hospital in the ICU, you
can't be with anyone, and you also probably can't go
(15:27):
on really visit him. Were you able to visit, I
don't know if you live close enough, is that something
you could do. We actually live on opposite sides of
the country. But when he went into the hospital, I
certainly had my eye on a plane ticket. Um. I
had a similar experience with my mom passed. She was
on a cruise and so I had to really quickly
(15:49):
find my way to Florida to be with my dad.
So I just kind of seemed like, Okay, here we
go again. But at the end of this one, I
might not have any parents left. Thankfully didn't happen, um,
but I was. I was really expecting to have to
go home and take care of my brothers and just
kind of fix everything out. Yeah. So it's trauma that
(16:11):
activates trauma that sounds like you've really been through a rough,
rough couple of weeks. Yeah, which makes teaching and being
emotionally present and available for my students even more difficult.
I'm wondering, as you're talking about this was taking care
of you. Yeah, I mean, right now, it is it
is just me physically here. I'm pretty drained from video
(16:35):
chat at this point. It's really just not the same,
and uh, it's it's pretty hard. But I have an
incredible group of friends. I've collected a lot of really
wonderful people in my life. And then my boyfriend's pretty
amazing too, So he and I spend a number of
hours on the phone each night and that really helps me.
(16:57):
And you're turning thirty. Yeah, don't tell anybody, you know,
We'll keep it secret. It's just a podcast. My boyfriend
sent me a pretty extravagant gifts that took me a
while too to like fully work through. And basically he
(17:18):
sent me a puzzle. I really loved puzzles, and he
uh bought me a thousand piece puzzle, put it together himself,
and flipped it over and wrote me a secret message
on the back and then took it apart and sent
it to me. But parts of it were missing, and
so then when he arrived for his trip, he brought
the rest of the puzzle pieces and I got to
(17:40):
finish the letter. So that was probably the best part
of my birthday. That is beautiful and so creative, and
I bet made you feel so seen because that was
such a specific kind of gift, which is the best
kind of gift, where it's specifically meant something to you
(18:02):
in a way that it would not to anybody else. Yeah,
he even sent me the glue so I could glue
it together and then afraid. So that's a thousand pieces
that didn't happen in one setting for sure, and so
that's amazing gift. We could see why you miss being
with him. Yeah, and it's pretty significant to He's willing
(18:22):
to travel during a pandemic to see me, so I'm
thankful for that. So what do you think turning thirty
will be like now without these trips. I have a
bit of a bucket list and one of the items
on my bucket list is to snarkle the Great Berry
Reef and that was what my immediate family gave me
(18:45):
money for to do on that trip to Australia, so
that was what I was really looking forward to. So
it's kind of a thirtieth birthday celebration event plus a
bucket list item. So in my mind, I fully intend
to still go to Australia at some point. We want
(19:12):
to offer you some suggestions. So the first thing is
that we know that it's important for you to be
there for your students, and you can still do that
even if you can't catch them in the hallway for
a chat. And so what we'd like you to do
is to think about maybe sending videos to your kids,
like maybe make a video once a week for them
(19:34):
with maybe a tip, maybe some humor, maybe some reassurance,
whatever you would offer them in person. That becomes something
fun for them and a way for you to connect
with them and then get them involved. So it's not
one way, so it's not just you're putting out a video,
but you get their feedback, Like you can put out
a question to them like how are you coping? Do
(19:54):
you have tips for your classmates and they can post
them with the video. Are there any other subjects you'd
like me to cover, and then have them suggest like
what the topic of next week's video will be. And
that will also help you to get a window into
what maybe is going on in their hearts and minds
as well. So there's a real sense of community, a
sense of fun, a sense of students communicating with each
(20:16):
other and communicating with you. And getting them to participate,
and maybe that would feel even though it's not the
same as spontaneously running into them at school, it would
be a new way of connecting with them that isn't
just and here's your algebra assignment. And we also think
you know them well enough that even if they're not
telling you some of the things they're struggling with, you
(20:37):
can probably anticipate and address them without naming any students,
but just in those general videos that you send and
thereby know that you're actually touching them in that way. Yeah, definitely, So, Alison,
we have another piece of advice for you. Since you
love trips and the planning and the traveling, and since
you were planning to have a real celebration of your
(20:59):
thirtieth birthday your friend in Australia and Indonesia and in
snarkling the great barrier reef which you won't be able
to do. One thing we had is that there might
be a way to take some virtual trips with your friends,
perhaps perhaps even with a friend with whom you were
going to go to Australia and Indonesia. And one way
(21:20):
we've been thinking of how you might do that is
to choose a destination when you haven't chosen so far
that isn't on your list, and then to plan an
evening where you both agree on a recipe and cook
together a recipe from the area that you'll be visiting.
That you each dress up in whatever the local garb
(21:40):
is and then do a reveal and kind of show
each other how you got dressed up, and then take
a virtual tour in a local museum or heritage site.
A lot of those have virtual tours that you can
take and then even learn a phrase in the local
language or if it's English, a local dialect or accents, pronunciations,
(22:02):
whatever makes it fun, and teach it to the other person.
But if once a month you have some kind of
virtual travel planned, it can keep your travel routine alive
and well even during the pandemic and the shutdowns. What's
fun about this is there are some surprises built into
(22:22):
it that make it different. So when you are thinking
of I'm going to teach my friend or my boyfriend
the phrase in the language of that country, find something
that's very personal, just like the puzzle was for your birthday,
and it's almost like giving them a gift in another language.
The point is to just have some kind of adventure
and surprise that's in connection with somebody else on a
(22:46):
regular basis, so that it does kind of break up
the routine in the monotony, and it also gives you
that pleasure that you lost of planning and anticipation, which
seems really fun for you. Yeah, that sounds like a
really fun idea, just to go to different places, and um,
I'll save me a lot of money, that's right. We
(23:08):
have one last piece of advice. We feel like we
enumerated the losses for you, but we don't know how
much you've enumerated your losses to other people. And it's
really important to acknowledge what you're going through with the
people who care about you, because then it kind of
lightens you up. You're not carrying that burden inside and
(23:30):
wondering why you're feeling the way you're feeling. And you'll
get a lot of support and compassion when you talk
to your boyfriend or your friends, your family about what
you're actually experiencing. So we just want you to be
able to have one conversation with a friend about, Hey,
you know what, even though I'm doing relatively well, I
have some hard days and here are some of the
(23:51):
things that I noticed that I don't have in my
life anymore. And just see what it feels like for
someone to mirror back to you. Yeah, I get it,
I see you, hear you, I understand you. So how
does that all sound to you? I mean it sounds good,
sounds um like there's some structure to be added, which
(24:13):
is something that I create, and uh, it all sounds
pretty fun. I think my kids would like a video
for sure, so I'm sure that they will will respond
pretty positively to that. That's a great idea, wonderful. All Right, Allison,
It's been a pleasure speaking with you, and we look
forward to hearing how things go for you this week.
(24:33):
Thank you. Yeah, it's been awesome. Thanks so much for
sharing this with us. Allison. You're listening to Dear Therapist
from my Heart Radio. We'll be back after a quick break. So, guy,
(25:01):
we heard back from Allison. Remember, we only asked that
to get back to us about the assignment for her students.
The other suggestions with for her to do in her
own time read let's take a listen. So I decided
to make a little video of myself sitting on my
couch talking about how bored I am at home and
how much I'm missing my students, and uh I talked
(25:23):
about how we were likely in day six thousand if
I have counted correctly, and so they must be just
as bored as I am. And I asked them some
questions about what they're doing, see if they could provide
anyone else some suggestions on how to stay busy and
connected during this pandemic. And I also asked them to
do something kind for a family member and to reply
(25:48):
with how that went, if they're comfortable. And I was
posting this on my Google classroom, and I posted it
just as an option for them. They didn't have to
do it, they have to watch my video. But I
got the most immediate response then compared to any of
the other actual assignments and posts, and most of them
(26:09):
responded as though they were talking directly to me. I
called a few students out in my video about specific
things that I miss about them, and in future videos,
I'm planning to eventually mention each student in my home
own class and something that I'm missing about them. And
it was pretty incredible to see their reaction and to
(26:29):
see that they are seeking that connection and that they
still they're missing school. Despite kids notoriously saying that they
don't like school, I think they really do and I
think they are missing it big time right now. It
really helped me as well, because it helps me to
feel connected to them and helped me feel like I
was still connecting and doing a good job for them.
(26:51):
So it was really great advice. Wow, that was beautiful.
She took the suggestions and then used her intuition as
a teacher to really know how to reach her students.
(27:14):
So I love that part where she called out specific
students and that she's going to call out her whole
home room and talk about what she appreciates about them,
but also the piece about where she asked them to
do something kind for someone else during this time, because
she knows intuitively as a teacher that when we reach
out and do something for someone else, it actually boost
(27:36):
our own sense of well being absolutely. And I think
when she said at the end that that video got
the quickest response from her students. I tend to think
that teach us sometimes underestimate the impact they have on
their students, underestimate the meaningfulness of the connection they do
(27:57):
have with their students, and maybe quite realize how powerful
that connection is. You know, students want to show her
their own she's showing them her apartment. I really hope
she realizes how significant a role she's playing in their
lives and in many lives. Also. It's interesting we gave
her an assignment and to watch a teacher do an assignment,
(28:19):
and she did it so beautifully because she did it
from the heart, and she added her own specific pieces
to the assignment and she got something out of it.
Her students got something out of it. And I think
if we were to grade her on her assignment, not
that great people on what we do here, but she
(28:40):
would get an A plus. Hey, fellow travelers, if you've
used any of our advice from the podcast in your
own life, send us a quick voice memo to Lorie
and Guy at I heart media dot com and tell
us about it. We may include it in a future
show that brings us to the end of our show
(29:01):
for this week. Thank you so much for listening. If
you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to rate
and review it. You can follow us both online. I'm
at Lori Gottlieb dot com and you can follow me
on Twitter at Lori Gottlieb one or on Instagram at
Lori Gottlieb Underscore Author, and I'm at guy Winch dot com.
(29:22):
I'm on Twitter and on Instagram at guy Wench. If
you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,
big or small, email us at Lorian guy at I
heart Media dot com. Our executive producers Christopher hasci Otis
were produced and edited by Mike John's Special thanks to
Samuel Bennefield and to our podcast Fairy Godmother Katie Currect.
(29:44):
Next week, a new father worries that his parents constant
criticisms could be as damaging to his child as they
were to him. I called my mom and it was
a snotty, crying mess and told her, when you say
those things, that makes me feel really bad. And I've
been working really hard to accept myself. I love myself
and it just really hurts. I'd appreciate if you didn't.
(30:06):
And her response was something along the lines of you
think you've got problems, get over it. Deer Therapist is
a production of I Heart Radio
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