EP 446: The Box Theory (ft. Jodie K. Taylor)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Decisions Decisions.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I don't think you should say decisions decisions. It sounded
like you was talking to Kurston.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You definitely say to welcome.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Welcome to the new podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:10):
Oh wait, you want to say together decisions Decisions.

Speaker 3 (00:13):
Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Decisions Decisions.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
I'm your girl, mad e b.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
We have to be very proper. I'm your I feel
like we have like a and you're from Boston, but
southern Bale.

Speaker 4 (00:26):
I have a You have a New England girly here.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Oh is that the New England vibe?

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yeah, it's a new England.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Are they proper?

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Yes? I went to private school.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
All I know is if y'all watching these holes on
the YouTube, they sat up and they got these little
demure dresses on, and I'm over here looking like a foster.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
I look like a backup. You're not going this right now?

Speaker 1 (00:48):
No, No, this fits the vibe?

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, no, look good. Yeah, I look like if this
was a girl group, I'd be the rapper. That's what
I agree. That's what it's we're giving three O.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
W oh wait, I thought you were gonna say TLC
because it's given given, so we I don't know when
you met Jody, but maybe we met at the same time.
I met Jody and Can for our first time. We
went and I think the bathroom and I was like.

Speaker 5 (01:15):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
I was like, oh my god, because I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
Obsessed with you, but like that love a good bathroom na,
because you don't really meet people after and even though
we haven't hung after yet, but I find that, like
the bathroom moment always ends, and I really appreciated that.
When I started to see your videos later, I was like,
oh the girls. Girls energy is real, because sometimes meeting
people in the flesh is a little bit of a disappointment.
So if y'all are here because you followed Jody, she

(01:38):
was kind of the same period. How do y'all know
each other?

Speaker 2 (01:41):
I don't know. I did see you and Can.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
We were on the gary V yacht. I think, oh wait,
it was yeah, not the gry V yacht. It was
the I know I saw you outside of that. It
was the one with was it the one where Lucky
they perform?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
May I saw you at CAN. You looked great. Oh
thank you that you can be having about eleven afarol
sprits to me.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
So it's like I gotta get the number, and everyone
from CAN I have to meet back up with when
I come to the States. Otherwise that week I meet
so many people. It's so many like that's all you do.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
All Yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (02:13):
Actually one of the events where I wonder if you've
ever dropped it. We're gonna ask you later like where
to set the social scheme. But that's when I would
put up there.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
To me, CAN has been like, first off, it's now
on my list for the rest of my life until
they start pushing those niggas out. But it's it's one
of the places where it's been so easy to meet
other like minded professionals. And to me, just because you're
out there, you black, everyone's dressed to the nine and
everyone is there just to have a good time, and

(02:42):
that when you are having a good time in another
country with someone else, you want to bring that energy.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Different too than experiencing Like for anyone listening Can's lines festivals,
what we're talking about it is a creative festival. It
feels different than afrotech to me because for some reason,
when you're that far, yeah, it's a different like, oh,
it's a different vibe. And not only that they know
that the job you're holding must already be something, yes,
or if you are an influencer and starting out like

(03:07):
you've made it this far. I think sometimes the other
ones can feel a little bit too convention y, like
too desperate, too, like I need something. I saw a
lot of bad reviews about Afrotech, and I don't know why, Like, oh, I.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Know a thousand people going No, it's just because black
people love to talk shit about our own things. Like
they do it with and best fast, they did it
with essence, they do it with like and I literally
talked about this on selective ignorance. There's it's frustrating to see, like,
the more things that we create of our own, right,
we need funding, we need people to give us money.

(03:39):
Baby Di is already gone. So the fact that we
want to shit on our own, you know, things that
we're creating for ourselves, what it's really doing is hurting
the ability or opportunity that we may have to find
funding or get sponsorships, because maybe if the black people
don't believe in it, how we gonna get the white
people to believe in it to cut checks.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
So to me, that's the bet wards being stepped up.

Speaker 3 (04:03):
I was really they stepped it up and then got
rid of soul train and hip hop.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
So it's like, yeah, I do believe black people are
hyper critical, but it's because I don't think they feel
like they have agency. And so when you don'teel like
you have agency to do, then you only have agency
to critique.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
But how you can take our own ship. Clearly we
have the agency too, and we see people getting bigger
and bigger and bigger, and it's almost like a bit
of some hate, like you also don't want to see
your own gear and black people excel beyond the thing.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
How you feel like white ice is colder And that's
why I probably said Kansas bad as shit there it is,
Oh my god. Okay, Jody, Jody Taylor, we just started
reading bios on the show.

Speaker 3 (04:47):
I ain't gonna hold you. We've eve been killing the biles.
I'll say this is what we got, Bawn.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Okay, Jody, don't your native who is called New York
City home for the past decade? Is it distinguished leader
in the corporate strategy and digital influence space. A modern
day aspirational figure providing unparalleled access. OOH embraces too and
transparency into the concept of the glow up lifestyle and

(05:14):
being on an intentional journey of growth self betterment. With
a strategic and empowering approach, she is inspiring women to
embrace new habits, elevate their ambitions, and become the best
version of themselves. Sorry, now I want to say, it's
not just your TikTok and ig stuff, because this is
to be the Jody effect in person, right, which is
so adorable. So traphouse open. First week, I was like,

(05:35):
Jody com she comes through Brionda text to group chat.
Oh my god, there's a girl so hot here, and
I'm gonna trust that you reader to come all the time.
And when we started talking about just maybe the aesthetic
of people coming in, how to market to people, she
was like, I want one hundred JODI's I want more
c suite beautiful women. I want powerful black women. I

(05:57):
want to feel it when they come in the door.
Because sometimes we're out and we meet someone that has
a job but you can't tell. And one of the
things that you've talked about is like leveling up and
how you're carrying yourself, how you're dressing, which for me
doesn't look the same because I'm an entrepreneur that doesn't
have that esthetic. And it's like sometimes I've watched those
videos and felt a little bit invalidated in the younger

(06:18):
years of entrepreneurship, like I do this thing, or I
talk about sex and needing to like own it is
all also part of the power.

Speaker 4 (06:26):
So I don't wait question for you though in terms
of feeling invalidated.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Tell me a little bit more about that, or we
think about what our god damn book, Okay, tell it.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
We don't get supported, we don't get asked to inswer
certain space.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
And you think it's aesthetic, it's because we're sexually liberated.
It's because of the time I see it. And so
the problem that.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
I've been having, and it's funny because I just had
an episode shout out to Ashley cop who's a sexpert,
it's the same thing. It's like we're battling with the
freedom to exist as C suite entrepreneurs and all these things,
while also having the space to own our own autonomy,
which is being taken away from us through laws, and

(07:04):
then also just being able to be happy with how
we're existing right and we're getting the issues from brands,
from corporations, and then also from other black women even
within the space. And it's what I'm realizing too, is
just like, damn, how much hard can I bitch? New
York Times bestseller now means nothing even to our goddamn publishers.

(07:26):
They're like, yeah, well, if you want to sit here
and promote the book, maybe you need to just go
to sex conventions.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
No, no good.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
We were told as New York Times bestsellers with a
book that is being transformative, with a lot of reviews
on Amazon, that actually has has been transforming the way
people view themselves and stepping into their power and overcoming trauma.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
Well maybe y'all should go to sex conventions.

Speaker 4 (07:49):
What I think, it's difficult because people want to compartmentalize, right,
It's easy. It's human psychology to dictate you look like this, ergo,
you deserve these things and you're this kind of person. However,
you all exist across multitudes, and that is a really
difficult place to be. You all are the pioneers of this,
so you're going to have an undue burden. It's going
to be easier for the next Wheezy and Mandy, But

(08:12):
y'all are the first to do something like this where
you're cascading against entrepreneurship, sex positivity podcasting. You all own
this shit. This is crazy that y'all are owning this.
But unfortunately people don't have the space to hold multiple
truths at once. And that's why when I talk about
like presenting, it's not from a it's not from a
place of being inauthentic. But quite frankly, people make snap judgments.

(08:34):
They're deciding within seven seconds whether to give you the funding,
They're deciding within seven seconds how to engage with you.
Men are deciding in seven seconds, like you said, the
box theory, what category to put you in. And either
you can choose to play the game, which I think
many people do, or you can choose not to, which
is what y'all are doing. But that's incredible and fantastic, Yes.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
It is the way like the amount of knows we've
heard me.

Speaker 3 (08:58):
We even just got into a group chat together with
with tempests and we were like, oh, we're so sick
a fucking here and no, like we've heard no so
much over the last fucking two years, even like after
the rebrand, and there's still just been like God, damn,
what the fuck can we do? Like and there's a
there's a thing I talk about, like even with shooting
your shot right, being able to accept rejection. Being able

(09:21):
to accept rejection goes around hearing no in so many ways,
so many facets, not just not just dating, like it's
in almost every fucking corner, Like hearing know that much
is like this is exhausting.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
It is no. It's exhausting.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
It is exhausting. But no is also data. There is
no such thing as a no. It's just information. So
when I hear no, I hear this is information that
I'm getting from this space. What can I do to
alchemize this no? So it's never a no, it's what
are the pieces that I'm So for example, if someone
does a video, this is a very like tepid example.
But if someone does a video and I also do
the same video, my video flops, Their video does fantastic.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
It's a no in terms of the algorithm, it's the know.

Speaker 4 (10:01):
In terms of perception, fine, but what I'm able to
do is sit in the know because it's uncomfortable and
it sucks. But also I can either continue to do
that or I can figure out what is this person
doing that's better than me, and how can I alchemize
that information and data to make me better?

Speaker 2 (10:14):
And that is how I've built a platform because.

Speaker 4 (10:16):
I've been doing content for a minute and some of
the girls blew up way past me. But what I
was able to do is say, oh, she's doing this,
she has the right lighting, she has the right hook,
she has expyz. So even on a metas scale, and
I'm not comparing a TikTok video to what y'all are
going through, but on a meta scale, no is data.
And I really lead into the note and I actually
think you should chase the nose, especially right now, like
y'all are no.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
But the thing that I'm thinking about with what you're saying,
especially with the being feeling like sorry, where was validated?

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah, being invalidated by women that are chasing a certain
life or trying to get somewhere and we look different
for me. Unfortunately, it did have to come with other accolades,
like yeah, our podcast did so many numbers, so many
things that it had broke barriers for so many accomplishments
we've had, even with like being part of the inception

(11:06):
of the black Back network that's now huge, just being
those girls, the first girls like just like being unleashed
on this whole big journey that Charlene Charlemagne started. This
now beyond him when I got back into corporate. So
Mandy and I left corporate. We were corporate girlies. That
started our show. When I got to run a podcast division,
and I mean still doing it when I got to

(11:27):
do that again, being in a different space showed made
me feel more powerful, and I hated that it did
that because the entrepreneurship was really the big deal. I
left my corporate job, being a sales engineer and working
in tech to talk about sex for a living make
more money than I did. But the second I got
right back into having that kind of title, that made

(11:47):
me feel good. What's strange to me is how much
we need the validity from others. The way that I
felt for my own self was amazing. Oh my god,
I don't have to get up to where I'm like
loving it. I'm on vacation, I'm working from home. I
can record my podcast on Zoom. But the second I
was on a payroll again, I was like, oop, yeah,

(12:08):
I'm really doing it. And it's ridiculous because at the
end of the day, entrepreneurship is the goal for everyone.
I was working with all of them, all of them,
all of them, all of them, and they're all like, damn,
what the fuck made you want to get back and
do this. I'm like, I don't fucking know, but I
will say my aesthetic. Learn to lean in and love it.
It was weird for me for the first year of

(12:30):
being single after relationship, because I thought, oh, I'm starting
to have a look. I didn't have as many tattoos,
I didn't have a septum ring when I got with him.
But this is my thing. Things I like and what
I learned is like my tribe is my tribe. Like
the men I'm looking for kind of look the same. Right.
I don't really do well with finance bros because most don't.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
I would say most don't.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
I don't the baby doing cochi shit. Them niggas be
having the bacca bottle at the bottom of the death.
They work a lot of hours, then they got to
hang out with other bros. What other bros like? Stripper bitches?

Speaker 2 (13:05):
No, they in broths, they strip clubs, they coked it out.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
I say, the skills and the rich, but the girls
that are chasing the finance bros. I think there's girls
chasing them. They've never gd any finance. Have you seen
on TikTok? I want a man six to finance whatever,
like the black girls and white girls everybody, but they
haven't got They haven't gotten it because what you don't
understand is the skills that make you great at finance
are the exact skills that make partner.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
The way the girls be uh one in the athlete niggas?
Now have you like? Oh, girls, the girls want athlete.
They all growing woman girl the girl. You know, it's funny.
You know what's funny about that? I'm not gonna lie.
All of my homegirls thirty five don't nobody want them on.
I can't think of it.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
I think athletes are like, it's a young girl's game.
It's a game either you got them in find you.
I still got one on my roster, but just one.
I only got one, Yes it was I.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
Have one, just one one.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
But I don't want to be with I don't desire
being with him.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
Like the idea of being with a guy.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
Like that, yeah, is like fuck, wait, why tell me experience?

Speaker 2 (14:10):
I think the way you think. I mean, they don't
do coke because they get drug tested well. Apparently they
do the pick coke on the yachts in off season.
That was crazy.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
I don't want them to take a black manta say hey,
everyone's doing gummy bear stuff whatever.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Listen to me. I think just there.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
They're the type of men that have never had to
really compromise. They're the type of men that have always
been given everything to them, that have never been held
accountable for how they treat others because the world has
been a runway for them, because they've been able to
provide for family. They don't have friends that check them
because the friends are on the paywall, and so in

(14:48):
terms of how they show up in relationships, it's very surface,
it's very lonely.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
It's very empty.

Speaker 3 (14:54):
And then you do have to realize that is going
to be a person that you share that will most
likely embarrass you.

Speaker 1 (15:00):
And now you know what's interesting though, what because I
know a lot of your content has been about rich men.
In that discussion, people would say that for any rich guy.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Do you do you believe that about any rich men?

Speaker 4 (15:10):
I do believe that about any rich man. I think
I believe that about a lot of men. Actually, they
don't even have to be rich.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
Then if you are super attracted, if you're attracted, if
you make in this economy over two hundred.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
It's funny that it's funny that you said that in
compared to the dark. So I was with my family
this weekend and my sister is talking to a new
guy his career. You wouldn't think anything up, but my
mom has experienced with men in this career. So for
if we're not talking about rich, wealthy men, apparently truck
drivers are terrible men today and so listening to them

(15:44):
this weekend, talk about how truck driving is a career
that if a man has he.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Ain't shit because he's always on the road.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
He might have his certain routes, so he got a
bitch on these Routes's what.

Speaker 1 (15:55):
So my partner is a real estate investor and he
has been for the last I don't know, maybe six seven.
We've only been did in two years. But that was
his first job and that was how he got in come.
You might be right the truck literally, but I didn't
know about drivers, but I know those careers are the
all that time on the truck, listening to them pop

(16:16):
flipping houses, learning shit.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Okay, what other career then? If you're like, it's any guy.
Are you just saying all men, whether I've got a
job or not. I'm not saying all men.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
Some of the some of the most insane men I've
ever dated, have been in construction, I mean fantastic HVAC
like it can be anything. The issue is supply and demand,
and the issue is perception and access. It doesn't really
matter how much money they have. What matters is who
they have access to their perception.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
Everybody got access to everybody now with social media. I
also think it depends.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
So for example, if me and my homegirls are at
a party, I have seen this with my own eyes.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
A regular dude who works at a great.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
Tech company, you would think he was lebron the way
that women are like circulating it.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Now, what is it? Is it?

Speaker 4 (16:59):
The I mean, he's moderately attractive, has a good job.
But in this economy where most men don't have a
lot of those things, we're in a scarcity mindset. They're
going to be rotating. And that's why I always say,
I think it is very lame and very corny, and
I got lit up for this when women are obsessed
with David rich men, I think it is extremely lame
and I think it's extremely corny. I think it's a

(17:19):
proxy for low self esteem keyword being obsessed.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
So what is what is your thoughts on women who.

Speaker 4 (17:26):
Are obsessed sprinkle sprinkle all of that with the sprinkle, Yeah,
I think so.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Wait, what do you sprinkles?

Speaker 2 (17:32):
Sprinkles, sprinkle sprinkle the little sprinkle sprinkle. Lady who was
talking about.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
The I'm sorry, is this a new drug?

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (17:42):
So I did a TikTok say I think women who
are obsessed with rich men are lame. And I kind
of got lit up. Some women understood, some did it okay.
I For example, if this.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Is a longer format, you could break it down to okay,
per so explain. Okay.

Speaker 4 (17:57):
So, for example, if a man said I'm obsessed with models,
I think we would be like, oh, that's lame and
that's corny. I think I don't understand where their dichotomy
is for some people. But when women are outsourcing their
agency and autonomy to a man with money, because it's
very difficult to have that sort of relationship and there
isn't any leverage points that aren't being exploited because that's

(18:20):
human nature, there is going to be a level of
exploitation when someone has such an advantage over someone else. Additionally,
when you are using a socially valued resource like beauty
or money, and you are obsessed with capturing that resource
and a partner, I believe it is a proxy for
having low self esteem. The women who I think have agency,
who feel beautiful, who feel great about themselves, They're not

(18:42):
really the ones that are obsessed with marrying rich. It's
usually the people who have never experienced it or who
don't like themselves. Similarly, with men, men who are obsessed
with dating the baddest women, it's never the fine men,
and it's never the super wealthy men. It is the
people who are using other people their partners. Is proxies
for their own low self esteem. And so that's why
when I think women who are obsessed with dating rich

(19:02):
about the they don't believe they can do it themselves.
They're outsourcing their future to somebody else.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
That's why I said, I feel powerful now makes money
like I like that because here's the thing.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
You just check boxed something for me that I said
the other day, so went to dinner with a friend
of mine, I would say maybe ten figures which to
me is insane.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, we all go eat great brings.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
A partner, new partner, and my homegirl says, can I
say it? I was like, say it, babe. She was like,
not that she wasn't great. I just thought he'd have
this like super hot Russian model. But I see why
because she's like, you know, and the way that he
talked about. He's like, oh and she just left your
pana was doing and like they're enamored by these other

(19:46):
things they do. And do you remember my friend, my
friend that dated the manager at Ross. Yeah, that to
me the way everyone treated it. So we listen and
we judge. Okay, my homeboy, who maybe nine figure not
ten okay, but a lot of bread at the airport,

(20:09):
couldn't take his plane, was in the lounge. I think
that's where he met the girl. She was going on
a solo trip somewhere to go to the jungle. He
was obsessed with the fact that she was able to
do this alone. He's like, I could tell this was
like her itinerary, like she wasn't meeting a man. I'm
so used to women moving for a man. I see
a girl in the Turks, I know who they would Drake.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Drake. I'm glad we all know that. Oh my goodness.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
So starts connecting with her, finds out she does lashes
on the side or something, but she manages like a
TJ Max or.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
She got very insulted that he wanted to level her up.
I see cut him off when he tried to give
her money to more so invest in lash business or whatever.
And I've been thinking about what you're saying, because that,
to me is super wealthy. We think super rich niggas
are playing ball and all that, and that's the low
self esteem shit. We want to recycle the same pot
girl every time. But that's super super next level wealthy.

(21:11):
It's not that to me. And this is why I
want to bring it up in segue. So you talk
a lot about hobbies, and I've been experiencing a lot
of friends maybe having call outs by men that feel
like they're out too much. And to me, it's like, Okay,
we need more hobbies.

Speaker 3 (21:26):
What do you think of the loose we women women
need more hobbies or men need more hobbies?

Speaker 1 (21:31):
I think we all do. I think women women too universally.

Speaker 4 (21:34):
So I actually did a poll on Instagram to ask
men what they think women can do to glow up.
And the number one thing that they said was, jes know,
nothing physical. It was hobbies. It was getting a better
group of friends. It was self investment. It was spending
time meaningful. Swear to you, I believe you. One hundred
and seventy five thousand people I asked, and all the

(21:55):
men said, you got that?

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Do you agree with it? I agree?

Speaker 2 (21:58):
But why is that such a problem. It was going
to be physical.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
I thought it was going to be physical, like especially
because men like to be in the gym, so I would.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Think that what they do.

Speaker 3 (22:08):
So I'm thinking that's what men would want women to do,
because I really feel like most menigcaus want to day
they God damn him home un But.

Speaker 4 (22:17):
Girl, they're spoiled with beauty. Men don't care about beauty anymore.
There's a million when I tell you, so many beautiful
women so extraordinarily boring and have nothing.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
No dynamic girls say this all the time. Well, we
go out.

Speaker 3 (22:30):
We were just out with my homeboy the other day
and he literally brought this up because he ended up
meeting us at this place that was like, uh, it
was a rooftop.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
He meets us at the rooftop.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
We go from the rooftop to get food, so we
go to like this little Korean spot. Then we he
ends up taking us to one of his homeboys restaurants
that his homeboy owns, and literally in between he was like, yo,
this has that happened in a while. He was like,
I can't hang with y'all all night, like we're talking,
and he was just like, that's rare. Constantly he's in
the industry, constantly around beautiful women, and I hear this

(23:02):
all the time when me and my homegirl Christal or
even when me and Rosie be we goddamn niggas it.
They literally said all the time, like, oh, y'all are
cool if we don't, there's so many there's so much
about women now that y'all have to realize too. Being
able to just talk to a man that doesn't involve
you trying to date them, that doesn't involve you trying
to get to know their baby mama or their backstory

(23:23):
on dating. Just being able to exist with men in
a way that y'all can both enjoy each other platonically.
May y'all suck each other dick at the end of
the night. It's possible, not each other did because both
of y'all gotta dick and lets one of the clauses
like me. But may y'all fuck at the end of
the night. Sure, But there's a thing about women, not.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
What because you said have one in the closet like me.
I mean, I just got to throw that in there,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
But there's a thing right now around women not knowing
how to just engage with men when it's not them
interviewing them to be their partner or interviewing them to
be their fuck buddies. It's like, oh, just hang out
with the guys.

Speaker 1 (23:58):
Tell us you have a masterclass. Now, what's the master
class about? Because we need a little crash course today.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yes, okay, I'm gonna tell you.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
So the master class is born out of I felt
like I, children of immigrants, came to New York City
and there was so much I didn't know. I didn't
know about having hobbies. I didn't know about joining a
junior board. Do y'all know what a junior board is?

Speaker 1 (24:16):
That's like school boys club, stuff like that sort of.

Speaker 4 (24:19):
So, for example, all of them exactly, so all of
these philanthropic organizations, they have junior boards for people forty
and younger. And that is where a lot of the
networking that's happening with the upwardly mobile exists in boards.
I didn't know about joining boards. I didn't know about conferences,
I didn't know about events, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
The Master class is built to help three components. Physical
number one. So we're talking about hairstyles that work for you.

(24:42):
Love that you did the blonde and the shore Oh girl,
go bet yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
So these women in a class and you'd be like,
no to the ball.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Sometimes it'll drop photo.

Speaker 4 (24:52):
Sometimes in the group chat though out of photo, and
they'll be like, should I wear my boss? I also,
I was actually looking at y'all. This is this is it.
Both of you found your our looks.

Speaker 3 (25:02):
I ain't gonna hold you when I see like the
throwback ship of how I used to like wear my hairs.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
You found the hair of even mind you.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
I've had men in my life that are like when
I said I was gonna cut it off.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
You know, black men will tell you not.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
To cut your hair.

Speaker 2 (25:17):
Oh, I like exactly, it's so weird.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
I want to say, your long hair fixed now.

Speaker 3 (25:22):
I want to ask you that actually to as a
black woman with short hair, because I know we have
a lot of the short hair girlies, and when we
see each other, it's like a it's almost like an
empowered thing to see other girls with short hair. It's
almost like a club. Every time I'm out they see it.
But I want to know what your experience was, specifically
as a black woman, maybe dating black men or talking

(25:42):
to any man and their connection to your hair and
what that what that was like because me being biracially,
you know, I don't.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Think it's the same.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
My relationship to my hair isn't the relationship that most
black women have with their hair.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Correct. What did cutting your hair off mean to you?

Speaker 1 (25:58):
And and dating?

Speaker 4 (25:59):
Yeah, so when I cut my hair, it was very therapeutic.
So I grew up in an immigrant household where we
prioritize achievement and appearance over everything. So I grew up
in a very strict Christian That's why you're probably like, oh,
you're acting like that. That was That was how I
was socialized as a child. I went to prep school.
I did all of those things right. So I got
rewarded for getting a's, for getting into a great college

(26:22):
for doing the right corporate palth beautiful and to look
beautiful and to be prim and proper.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
All of that that was my rewards growing up.

Speaker 4 (26:28):
So then as I got older and was in therapy,
I realized I didn't know who I was because I
was defaulting so much of my identity to all right,
this is what people like, this is what people says
should do. And so as I was on learning and unpacking,
I went to the hairdresser and I was like, shave it,
Like this is a therapeutic moment for me. I want
to be able to walk into a room and feel

(26:49):
confident and to feel sexy without having to hide behind
the hair. And also, as you know, as women of color,
black women, you know, it's such a hinderance.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, it is.

Speaker 4 (26:58):
Depending Like there were so many things I was out
of in life because I was like, oh, I can't
participate in this because my hair's not done hard. My
hair is really of course, also I had like I
have four sea hair, so it's like, all right, it's
a thing we'll have to d tangle and I have
to think about it. And you begin to like socialize
your life around your hair in a way that was
just like, oh, I can't.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
When you said hide behind your hair, I have three
sea hair. And to me it's interesting because like four
A three C blend. And I always said like mixed girls.
Grown up people be like, oh, how can you got
black girl hair? And you don't have this kind of
hair like and a lot of my biracial friends have
that super curly like Tracy Ellis ROSSI.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
My boyfriend said to me when my raids came out,
he made me wear no fucking braids in Thailand. We
were ever a month. Yeah, and so he goes, stop
putting on makeup because you don't even put this much
makeup on when.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
You ever interesting.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
I didn't even clock it. He was like, you are
just suddenly you need this.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Your hair is out.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
That's a good partner, it is, and it's a something.
And great partners will hold a mirror up. Yea, but
we need to hold the mirror up. Sorry, go back.

Speaker 4 (27:59):
So physical physical, Oh yes, okay, So the masterclass, so
we talk about physical it's everything from me. We'll have
makeup artists come in, We'll have posture coaches come in,
stylists come in and talk to you about your physical presence.
Not only on the physical plane, but also how you
hold yourself in a room. So that's why the posture piece.
It might seem frivolous, but truly exactly, truly, you learn
how to take up space differently exactly you're doing it.

(28:21):
You got to sit at the end of the seat though,
you got to shoulders back, and you got to put
your hands like that, but you hold up space.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
Yeah, do you know they say.

Speaker 1 (28:30):
I think it was someone at the stretch lab that
told me. She was like, oh, you need your postures changed.
I was like, almost bust me from stretch Lab. She's like,
maybe something good's going on because you're walking with.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
Your heart open. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yea yeah, learn how
to take it.

Speaker 4 (28:40):
And I think a lot of women, women of color,
especially when we're in these spaces like corporate, we have
to shrink ourselves like it's literally a physical manifestation of
how we feel in a space. And so when you
begin to walk open like that, it's indicating to yourself
and others like I'm free to take up space and
I'm allowed to move how I want to. So anyways,
physical we cover that. Social we talk about building social capital,
which is a concept I don't think a lot of people,

(29:02):
especially people of color, think about in a meaningful way.
So I'm talking about how you get mentor sponsors, joining
junior boards, how do you go event to events like
CAN and when you go to CAN, how do you
show up in a way that leaves with meaningful connections
and that you can also build an ROI off of.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
And then lastly his career.

Speaker 4 (29:18):
So that's everything from working in corporate, we talk a
lot about entrepreneurs. So the person who's actually in the
class tonight is the woman who did Anmars ten thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (29:26):
Do you remember, Charlie, Yes, they did it.

Speaker 1 (29:28):
Did you see this?

Speaker 2 (29:31):
That's my sast girl, because it's funny to me and
my homegirl. Literally we're just.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
Talking about her last week, Yes, because she met some
girl that had a matchmaking service and we were talking
about the difference between dating coach matchmaking service, and she
was five thousand dollars. So we ended up talking about
the girl who paid the ten thousand dollars but now
is engaged, and so we were talking about the investment

(29:57):
of dating. Because where we invest in college, we invest
in our looks.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
We invest in all these things.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
She now at thirty nine. Yes, thirty nine is like damn,
she said, I paid twenty five hundred. But we're talking
now about what the investment in dating looks like as
a woman approaching your thirties that wants a family unit
or that wants to get a partner. And so it's
interesting to hear her say that she would pay twenty

(30:24):
five hundred even for a matchmaker, because I see in
her mind she's like, oh, yeah, this is something now
that I have to invest in.

Speaker 1 (30:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:30):
So I made the face because I ain't paying ten
thousand dollars for no niggas.

Speaker 4 (30:33):
Well. I did Aniars program too. I paid six or
seven six or seven thousand thousand.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
You got a man?

Speaker 1 (30:38):
How did it go? Oh?

Speaker 4 (30:39):
I have myself and I have you know how I
have my sanity. That's what I do.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
We're your ROI on the six to seventh.

Speaker 4 (30:46):
Though, So the point of NRS program is, and I
love Edward, the point of NRS program isn't to get
a man, because that's also.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
Contingent someone else.

Speaker 4 (30:53):
Okay, ballad right, that's contingent on the pool.

Speaker 2 (30:55):
That's continent.

Speaker 4 (30:56):
What it is though, it taught me boundaries, and it
taught me vulnerability, and I think.

Speaker 1 (30:59):
As of color, how I grew up vulnerability.

Speaker 2 (31:02):
I did not know how to be vulnerable. I did
not know.

Speaker 4 (31:04):
Okay, so if I were to ask you, how are
you feeling, how would you respond to it.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
I'm feeling great. I had a good day, I worked out,
and now I'm at work.

Speaker 2 (31:12):
And I love my job.

Speaker 4 (31:13):
Okay, you didn't use a feelings word, right, you said
I feel great, active addctives. That's not vulnerability. I didn't
tell me anything meaningful about your inner world when we
talk about vulnerability in relationships and dating with my relationships
gave me the feelings.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
With the feelings feeling, I use my feelings.

Speaker 4 (31:32):
We all, so I'm talking about Oh, I'm feeling really
anxious right now, I'm feeling frustrated, I'm feeling really excited.
Here is why. It's giving people a peak into your
inner world and when you grew up how I grew up,
which was perfectionism, and you can only let people. And
I think a lot of black women feel this way too.
If I have to be perfect in how I show
up in order to say made silent very Jamaican, yeah,
you could tell or I have.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Dated a Jamaican girl. For a bit that was constantly
talking about perfection. She's like, why don't think you understand? Like,
so they came from Jamaica when she was maybe five
and just almost like I would say, adjacent to Africans
wanting to be the standards. But I didn't really hear
that before.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
Because what what type, like did you come from money?
Because like, I'm Jamaican, I was gonna say Jamaica, I'm
Jamaican and white. What where from They're from Saint Catherine?
Where from the township? I don't know, day from the
country as the Latin the hood.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
That's my family. Okay, okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
We weren't like they say Catherine. But what's crazy? And
that's why I asked, though, did you come from money?
Because the difference with my family wasn't that, but they
were workers like my uncle, my aunts, my like from
doing the paper the paper route in the morning to
then working at a at a convention store, to then taking.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Care of all the kids to me, which is why my.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
Dad for so long even with this podcast, specifically when
I was bartending, it was a part of why I
even went to college and went to school because when
I was bartending, it didn't matter how much money I
fucking made every time I went home, when you're gonna
get a real job, and he just didn't think I
had a fucking real job. Even though I made money,
even though I was paying my own bills, it didn't matter.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
He wanted me to have a real job.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
And it wasn't until like even recently, like I was
surprised he was proud of me because this, to him
isn't a real job.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Of course, and so.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
Doctor engineer get me, and he's but he's also like
blue blue, blue collar. He's a construction worker. My mom
works in healthcare. My uncle's also construction worker. Everyone had
blue collar jobs. So for me, it's interesting hearing your
upbringing like that, because for me, it was just always work, work, work,

(33:46):
make money, and have all the jobs that you can,
which is probably why I keep wanting to make jobs
for myself. It was always have multiple jobs, just keep
working and make all the money.

Speaker 2 (33:55):
And then also sexuality. This is definitely not gonna say,
how does he feel about oh girl.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
My sister was growing up the favorite daughter. My sister
is lesbian.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
Okay, well I have seen.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
It's so interesting subconsciously seeing him detach like my cousin
had to leave Jamaica because he was gay, and I
talk about it in the book where we have to
unlearn so many things, because for me, even though we
know he's gay, never saw any partner.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
We never were introduced to anything he did, even sexually.
He just showed up.

Speaker 3 (34:32):
We knew he was gay, and he existed in however
he had to in his other life. And I literally
talked about it with my cousin recently because I was like, damn,
how lonely must.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
That have been.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
Like we all knew he was gay, we never asked
me as partners. We never welcomed it like growing up,
and it was just like, it's hurtful now to realize,
like damn, we never embraced his sexuality, and now as
a fluid sexual bitch, I am now my sister's gay.
My sister said she might go get because these niggas
ain't shit. It's so interesting how we're able to talk
about it now, but that was not talked about growing up,

(35:06):
not talking.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
I don't know one gage of making and statistically they
have to go.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
And that is why I never really got anywhere with
their girls.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
I don't think you get it.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
You know, she's probably living in the closet.

Speaker 2 (35:19):
Oh yeah, yeah, she had to have.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
And honestly, when she met me, she said she was
Caribbean and didn't specify, which I thought was so strange.
But anyway, hold on, we need to get into joke.
Let me shut the fuck U about my life. This
is what y'all came for.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
I'm not gonna give it to you.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
Well, okay, investments for women, yes, I want to talk
about both investments for women, investments for men. We've talked
about social capital, but dig into what we need to
be spending our money on because we're thinking it might
be expensive clothes. It might just be one really good
little black dress. Who knows what should we be investing?

Speaker 4 (36:00):
So I think women focus on the wrong things. We
hyper fixate on the micro that is it actually moving
the needle. You need to focus on the big four
that's moving needles. Hair, skin, teeth, nails, our hairskin, teeth,
body actually, and then we can kind of like fold in.
Sometimes nails can fold in, like maybe.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
They just don't care about nails. They actually don't like may.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
No, no, no, yeah, they care about feet in toe
they care rah. I'm telling you right now, my man
clut Yeah, we were watching ninety why, like, look at
this girl.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
Someone paid me three thousand dollars because one of my
nails fell off and he was like you can't.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
No, no, no, no broken nails. I get that nail key. Yeah,
he was like men clock.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
Yeah, but if you don't have polish on your nails,
a man isn't going to be like you need a
f that's not nails to me though, that's what I'm
what I'm saying. If you're a woman that gets your
nails done, keeping them up is a thing for me.
You could have no nails literally, no designs, just your
naturals and the man ain't gonna come up and be
like you need a.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
Full Setma, Yeah that's not what I think. That's what. Yeah,
it's just nail up keep and nails that's upkeep. But
don't have a chip. Don't have it.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
I'm talking about the same like I don't. I don't
even know if I'm dating man that date girls like
they like you know, like the crazy Yeah, like that's
not because that's hygiene.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
Yeah, but a lot of people question the hygiene.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
And that I don't even know if they know what
a full say is.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
But my point, which is why I'm.

Speaker 4 (37:25):
Like they like a well talking about men, we're not
even talking about like that wasn't even the calculus that
we need to be making. Because when I'm talking about
self investment, I'm not even thinking from the lens of
like what male care, what men care about? I'm thinking
from the lens of like what is going to make
you feel good and like begin the practice of focusing
your energy on yourself.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, I don't even it's about bet or not.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
I don't care what the bad they So when I
think about like the things that really move the needle
in terms of personal appearance and personal brand, it's going
to be getting the hairstyle that works for you. It's
going to be getting your like the body the person right.
And it's not about a size. It's more about getting
your capsule wardrobe together. It's about finding clothes that like
you back, finding hairstyles that like you back, finding things

(38:08):
that flatter the body that you're in, not the body
that you used to have or the body that you
trant to have, exactly the body that you're currently in.
It's about getting your teeth together in whichever way that
makes sense. So none of this is prescriptive, right, None
of it is like you better get ozembic or you
better get but it is making sure that you're demonstrating
like care in each of those spaces. So even if
it's just like whitening or flossing whatever, teeth make a

(38:31):
big difference or a hygiene makes a big difference. And
then lastly, some of those like smaller things like yeah,
you can focus on the nails and the makeup and
things like that, but the big things that will move
the needle in terms of how you show up in
a physical room and then also how you feel about yourself.
It's gonna be hair. Skin, Skin is another thing. Go
to the germatologist, get skincare if you need it, hair skin, teeth,
and then like that body piece that's really what women

(38:53):
should be actually think.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
Teeth was my biggest elevation in my life. Same people
keep saying that I look better than I ever have,
And I thought it was like hair, But I'm.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Like, I thought that about you too. I'm like, you
look good.

Speaker 4 (39:03):
It was like your Instagram recently, I'm like, but you
know what teeth does too. It also changes your face shape.
It does so it's not about the teeth, it's about
like your jaw.

Speaker 2 (39:13):
This is so different.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
I'm sorry for saying this. I went to this doctor
of her east side. She said something. I am thirty
four years old. I never wanted to have races until
she goes, oh, it's gonna change your face. This line
isn't gonna yeah, you're gonna get a little up. Yeah,
but you people are gonna think you got cheth filled.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
I was like, oh, really, you're like done, But.

Speaker 1 (39:32):
I'm telling you. It changed me. It's making people respond
to me different way. And I never thought teeth were
this important. Yeah, because I thought, fuck yeah, it was
one of the.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
First things I did.

Speaker 4 (39:41):
Yeah, teeth changes your face shape, it changes how people
interact with you.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
I was thinking about that. You about Wheezy.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
I saw your Instagram and I'm like, she looks good.
I'm just happy, and I don't know what that's true.
It might also be happy, but I do think it's
a teeth.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
Actually, I actually think don't have to keep racist in fail.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Okay, wait, now this one I heard has been like
your ship. Yes, I want you to pick three. One
has to go.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Botox fitness therapy for the glow up, which one.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
I think botox can go because you can get similar,
similar results from not using botox. So there's a product
called Brownies. I don't know if y'all have ever heard
of it, but it's almost like put us on base
taping and you sleep with it on and then it
kind of creates the same effect. There's a bunch of
products and like lasers and stuff that you can get
collagen you get CO two lasers, you can get clear
and brilliant.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
All of that now, Oh clear and brilliant. Yeah, I
got seven hundred. You gotta get me a guy, I
got that's cheaper, all right. Another one investments for men.
But the men watching that need to have their glow up?
What do you feel like isn't hitting for men?

Speaker 4 (40:43):
Okay, So I did the same poll I ask all
men dusty they do.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
And the issue is it's sorry, Ed, you don't look
at you don't look dusty. You don't look dusty, Eden,
I don't even believe it. No, you look like, yeah,
you're good for it. Actually the diametric opposite.

Speaker 4 (41:01):
So men cared a lot about what women were doing
in terms of like personality stuff. They were like, oh,
she should have friends, but the women were actually the
ones who were very caught up on the physical.

Speaker 2 (41:10):
The hygiene.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
The hygiene, yes, the nail care, the teeth care.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Beard, yeah, like don't cut it off. Keep you might
clean them.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
No, I think it was like beard trimming, like keeping,
like the general up, keep up.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
I think seeth is very important with men.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
But also yes, the hygiene, especially because like how are
you trying to finger a bit in your nails?

Speaker 4 (41:31):
Their nails is dirty, the nails are long.

Speaker 2 (41:33):
And then it was and then it was really nasty too.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
It was one of the streamer's brothers was talking about
he just lets the water go down his ass crank,
he don't wash his ass because it's.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Gay, And I was like, what that literally you ain't
see the clip.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
He literally was so proud to say, yeah, like I'll
be digging in my ass, like I just let the
water go down, It'll be fine.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Bro.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
What And this is why we need full frontal alone
Like what the that say?

Speaker 3 (42:03):
But this is why you can't they a man who's
homophobic because he not washed his ass exactly.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
I mean we can end it now.

Speaker 1 (42:11):
That's fact that we're not because the girls want more.

Speaker 4 (42:14):
Okay, wait, I didn't finish investments for men though, so
it was a lot around the physical. Also, I think
what a lot of women are looking for. Women are
making more money, so money is not moving the needle anymore,
and I think we, I think, unfortunately, men have been
socialized to believe that money is moving the needle. Ergo
the men who are actually investing in therapy, the men
who actually have emotional availability.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Those are actually the men who are going to win.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
So a lot of the girls that I know who
are true ten out of ten baddies, they're not dating
the athletes. They're dating the guy who's doing well, who
who asks therapy, emotionally available, can put himself together, has
has somewhat of a wardshrope. Those are actually like the
prime candidates right now.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
So my friend taught me capsule capsule collection. He went
to his closet because he always dressed so well. So
the first time I w into his house, I said,
this all.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
Seems like a lot, yeah, because you know how to
mix it match it.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
When I'm looking at all the shoes, it's Margella, he's
wearing the you, Saint Laurent, he's at the ricks. The
best of the best. I'm like, I understand now, and
I don't think that what's been easy for me, especially
because we've got to have alphas all the time. Instagram
really fucks your brain with gospash. Oh my gosh, you're
sitting here watching this TikTok of this battie and now
we've bought all these thirty dollars.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
Dresses in our class yep that you never wear, which
I wear them? You wear all of your thirty dollars.
I wear all my two dollars sheets.

Speaker 3 (43:30):
I wear its cute Sanda repeated, and then I let
my friends wear it, and I'll be like, bitch, I
want to beg and I get it.

Speaker 2 (43:36):
Bag.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
I literally moved to Atlanta for another closet, so I
mean that's what I tell you. Feel me, I'd be like, bitch,
I needed a closet. But I love just a lot
of options. I do love a lot of options too.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
However, it creates paralysis, and it creates cognitive dissonance, so
people don't always know how to engage with you when
they don't know how to perceive you. And in terms
of like how you're showing up on the physical plane,
it's giving so many different so if you're a girly
in corporate specifically, there should be one aesthetic that you're
really leading into and then maybe on the weekends you
can play around with different things. Also, I rent clothes,

(44:08):
and a lot of girls need to start renting their clothing.
There are services like by Rotation, Newly Pickle where you
can rent and you can play around with different esthetics
and then give it back, so your closet isn't overboarded.
But find the esthetic and the silhouette that looks good
for you. See, I can hear all those stresses don't
look good for me.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
It goes by my mood.

Speaker 3 (44:25):
Okay, Sometimes I want to give study, Sometimes I want
to give hope. Sometimes I want to give corporate baddies
for me.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
And I think that.

Speaker 3 (44:32):
That's been the joys of maybe entrepreneurship and freedom for me.
Like I hated the frumpiness of what corporate attire for
the pond people, and so like now that I just
get to some which is why my friends make fun
of me. It don't matter if I'm somewhere. This is
like the most the least I've packed ever. If I
come to New York for three days, which my suitcase
is sixty pounds because I don't know if I'm going

(44:54):
to wake up and want to wear boots or heels
or slides or sneakers. To me, it's a mood when
I want. I've seen I've seen all your clothes before.
You have a similar theme. It's just different items within that.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
It is very important because something people have told me
over the years that I kind of like. I love
that everyone knows exactly what my neil color will be
exactly my hair is always pretty much gonna the same.
That it's not natural. I think it's nice to even have,
even with us being on tour now, like blonde, it's
a signature the last tour that you did, we had
that look.

Speaker 4 (45:24):
Yeah, this signature a lot of pr people actually tell.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
So I don't know if you do y'all know Elaine.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
Mall Turos, Yes, yes, okay, I don't know if you
remember when she came out on the scene.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
She used to have the big blacks and the big
white boots.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
And the big hair.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
And I don't know her if she did this intentionally,
but it was something that or de Ray do you
know y'all.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Know Drays the blue vest, blue vest exactly because the
blue best I'd be like, what exactly to this?

Speaker 4 (45:48):
So there is a there's a currency in being able
to have things that people can identify you by. So
it doesn't have to be clothing like you have the hair,
you have the hair, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
But we can all say deray in the blue vest.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
We can all say wireframe glasses it and now now
we know exactly, so.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Screwed when I get these braces off. Okay, dating A
ten out of ten? You had a video about this.
What the hell was that?

Speaker 4 (46:11):
I don't even remember this video? But what was the
concept dating a ten out of ten?

Speaker 1 (46:14):
It was like who you are and dating experience or person?
Maybe that was the same one, but oh that one
I really like. Okay, tell me who are you in dating?
You said there's either two type of people. Are you
an experienced data or person data? Y? What is that?

Speaker 2 (46:28):
I remember?

Speaker 1 (46:29):
I was digging girl.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
I'm like, I don't even remember.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
I didn't agree with and then things I did, but
I wanted j all to find.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
About Ooh, I want to hear what you don't agree
with as well. But okay, tell me this one.

Speaker 1 (46:39):
We're talking.

Speaker 4 (46:39):
Okay, So people oftentimes fixate on the person in dating.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
This is something I learned from Nmar as well.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Fixate on the person, right, Like I like this man
so much, I'm going to figure out how to make
it work. Instead, we need to focus on the experience,
Like what is the experience that I'm having, and whoever
offers me the best experience is the person I'm going
to go with. So I don't think it's particularly controversial.
I just won't think people.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Do it well.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
Right, So you meet somebody he has all of these
like checklist qualities, You're like, I'm going to figure out
a way to make this work. Instead, you should be
doing what are the feelings, the experiences, the ease that
I want to feel, and whoever offers that within the
realm of like your standards and boundaries is the person
that you need to go with. And I feel like
that's pretty that's that's yeah. I feel like everyone should

(47:20):
feel that way. I don't think everyone executed love that.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
I don't even want to like get too much into
our own ship to stuck up your time. But there
was a recent thing that I've been talking about on
Horrible that was so important to me. My boyfriend told
me I really don't know if I dated a woman
that liked me, or they were seeing me and they
knew I was fly or attracted. I have a great job,
like I'm working for myself. They're like, oh, I need him.
He's like, I don't know if they even were like like,

(47:45):
but that is a thing that women feel a lot
when they're exceptionally people or popping or like all of
I'm sure all of us can attest. Yeah, our friends
that maybe celebrities or something like that are continually having
this experience. They're always saying, and it's a celebrity thing,
it's all of us. There's something that someone sometimes wants
to take and they're not even trying to get to
know you. I've felt that because we've talked about sexe

(48:07):
many years think outsido.

Speaker 4 (48:08):
But I also want to bring it to the Ross
point where your rich friend was dating the girl who
worked at Ross, and we see that dynamic a lot.
I feel like we see that dynamic with men who
are exceptionally wealthy end up dating women who are like, ah,
not doing that well. It's because they offer a unique experience.
They're not eliciting something from them. I think unfortunately a
lot of girls who are doing like exceptionally well.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
We lean on qualities that don't.

Speaker 4 (48:30):
Make us softer partners, and I think you were kind
of saying this earlier too. Sometimes we over index on
like the harder qualities, like the fact that we make money,
the fact that we have these degrees, and don't lean
into the more feminine, soft qualities that I think a
lot of these high earning men are really looking for.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
M oh no, I'm very feminine. I will ask any money.
I want to go on vacation. I really need a break.
I'm tired.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
Like, oh no, I lean And I think that that's
been the best part about me currently dating.

Speaker 2 (48:57):
Like I used to think I couldn't ask for things. Yeah,
but I go. I not ask for exactly.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
I love it and I get to do it. Yeah,
And I'm all right, schall for our reaction. Before we
get out of here, I want to play this and
tell you what various men said in my phone, including mine.

Speaker 5 (49:13):
The box theory when it comes to men is completely true.
Guys when they start to see a girl, will put
you in one of three boxes. The first box is
someone that they are not really attracted to and they
just don't want to date.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
The second box is someone.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
That they want to hook up with.

Speaker 5 (49:25):
So even though they may tell you that they like
you or they enjoy.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Hanging out with you, maybe they take you on dates.

Speaker 5 (49:30):
They just only want to hook up with you. And
then the third box is, of course they want to
date you, and guys will know what box to put
you in literally within like the first twenty minutes of meeting.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
You agree.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
I don't agree.

Speaker 4 (49:42):
I agree to an extent, but yeah, I don't agree.

Speaker 6 (49:46):
I think there's more than three boxes oo before it,
I can't. I can't give you another one right now,
but there's in my head I tell us, I'm sure
that there's more than three boxes for me. I can't
just put you as then like I just want you
as a friend, I just want to fuck and then
I just want.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
To be there, especially within the first twenty minutes, Like
I think both of my last two relationships, it's like
they were shocked, like because who they thought I was
once they actually got to know me, they were like,
you're nothing like I thought you'd be. I thought this
would just be one thing, and now I've fallen for you.
Like the people that have been around for a long time,
even she know my little other little boo, like we've

(50:22):
known each other for a long time and now like
the dynamic has changed so much. I don't think we
envisioned it being that either. And so for the guys
who actually take the time to not box me in
and get to enjoy everything and experience me for who
I really am, not for maybe how the internet sees
me or how I walk into the room, because I

(50:43):
could probably have my whole ass outfit all that night.
I could probably look like a stud and you think
I bump couchies all the time.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
So to me, how you meet me immediately, You're not.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
Gonna know in twenty minutes, because I'm someone that you
kind of have to peel back the layers like an
onion to really experience it.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Thinks in the opposite you, I think a lot about
a wife, this girl, and then after maybe.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
Like so I think for me, they expect me to
be one way. I actually am shockingly very down to earth.
I don't really like to go out that much. I'm
a homebody. I like to kick it that they might
think they set it on couch exactly and only talked
to whatever. Whatever people think about whomever I think there's
an opportunity.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
I think I'm a dynamic person, so I don't want
to be.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
At a club.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
How come off seener?

Speaker 1 (51:22):
The clue A last two times?

Speaker 2 (51:23):
When was the last time you sat me?

Speaker 1 (51:24):
The can't exactly.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Did a little intake.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
I asked my boyfriend, Jeff, who's a fitness structure of
trap Arsante, who does drink ConTroll off some other guys. Now,
every single man said yes, but one. And what I
found interesting was Jeff was like absolutely yes, yes I
did bottle box. But there was one girl that got out.
All of them.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Always get out the box. Now you might be the one.

Speaker 1 (51:49):
One thing my boyfriend said that was interesting to me.
That started to connect the dots with the others. When
I started to dig deeper, like what was it with
the other women? They all were maybe influencer, maybe DJ,
maybe someone You're like, this is scary a sex podcaster?

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Yeah, very scary. Yeah. Now big big red flags, right,
And so.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
My red friend's like, of course, He's like, actually, I
just wanted to fuck everybody until I'll talk a little more.
But I then asked what brought me out of the box,
and this I found interesting. I don't want to lie
to you. It didn't take weeks to.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Get out of the box.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
It did take months. I didn't fall for you till
month three because I just kept thinking you were so
cool and I had to study a little bit more.
I'd like to date for a long time before making
someone my girl, and I don't think you're understanding that
if it's working faster for you. I'm consistently putting everybody
in the same box because I am not actively looking
for a partner in that or at that time, right,

(52:43):
And a lot of men, I think find their answer
to be the same. He said, finding a wife wasn't
right or die for me. I can spend time with
a woman as long as I was having a good time.
Theory does stand correct to me, because at the end
of the day, you were in a box of fun
party girl to me until we actually got to spend time.
Maybe we fucked the first night, wouldn't have gotten there, right.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Oh, Because I mean I for my ex first night,
it was the other three years.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
And that happens though, because.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
It happens quite a bit.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
Like Yeah, we had a conversation with Paul Pierce and
he said his wife sucked on the first night.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
But that's the thing too, Like even if the sex.

Speaker 2 (53:18):
That is hilarious that he came out here.

Speaker 3 (53:21):
That he did, he said, And I stayed with her
for like two weeks after that because she's just yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:28):
This is very I mean they're not married, Okay, I said,
besides cooking and cleaning, what were the qualities? And I wait,
you were cooking and cleaning, because I know that's what
I do. I'm saying, besides me cooking or whatever, you
were cooking and cleaning, though not in three months, but
you're cooking, yes, not cleaning. Okay, Okay, okay, I think
if we're cleaning, you know I'm a clean girl. Okay,
went home. Yeah, you smell the dip tea. I love it.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
Man, you're gonna come to mysel and be like, my
cleaner ain't coming.

Speaker 4 (53:53):
She's not here yet, you're coming tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
And then cooking. I ain't doing that for a while.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
So confidence was one. Honesty didn't find you to be
a liar. And I really think some real shit.

Speaker 2 (54:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
A lot of the girls he did before me were
very like primp popper girls. Yeah, you know, those are
the girls that are acting like they never sucked the day. Yep,
they've never had a partner, and I think men are
very taken back when women get to talk about relationships
and exes. I'd love to know what you think of
that too. Nurturing, I found that many women are not
I'm looking for them to be softer, and it's not

(54:29):
happening for me. A few other traits, but for one,
many women aren't finding places to be soft all caps,
tell me where, and let's end it with this, because
we're all women doing well and strong and don't need
men in our lives. Well, I need be effucked. But
the softness, where are we losing it? And where should

(54:50):
we be showing up softer?

Speaker 4 (54:53):
We're losing I think unfortunately society has changed in a
way in which we are having multiple roles. The household
used to be someone was a primary breadwinner, then someone
was taking care of the home, and a contemporary society,
we're doing both roles right Like we go home and
we cook and we clean and we meal prep, and
then we're also going out and doing work. Softness comes
from having the psychological space to rest and be able

(55:15):
to sort of like disconnect from your mind and into
your body. And I think unfortunately we live in a hypersocialized,
hyper capitalistic and also just like logical society in which
all day I'm making decisions, we're all making decisions, we're
directing people, we're having conversations, et cetera, we don't have
the opportunity to lean into our body. And so something
that I encourage a lot of the women, particularly in

(55:37):
my masterclass, to do, is to think about ways to
connect back into your body, back into your intuition, because
that's where we're losing the softness. I also think anwhar
you know, I love Anwar does a really great job,
and that's where we talk about vulnerability. And part of
vulnerability is one understanding how you feel and two being
able to express that. And the amount of men that
have told me I love the fact that you're able

(55:58):
to tell me what you're feeling, because most and don't.
Most women kind of sit on it and are kind
of weird and passive, aggressive and in a mood, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
I won't say most, but some are.

Speaker 4 (56:06):
But if you're able to say, like, hey, I'm feeling
this way, can we talk about it. The emotional regulation
and the emotional control that comes with UH being able
to one identify your own feelings and then verbalize it
to someone else. I think that's the softness that men
are really looking for. But generally, if a woman wants
to reconnect with her femininity, with her softness, with whatever one,
it's doing things that you like to do growing up,

(56:28):
like whatever you like to do as a child, like
reconnecting with that to reconnecting with your body. And then
three figuring out ways to offload decisions to other people,
So figuring out like who can you have to delegate
to cleaning your house, who can you have as a
chief of staff, et cetera, So you can reconnect to
who you are and like what your intuitive self is thinking.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (56:48):
I love that, boss pitch the chief of staff and
let our listeners know where they can follow you.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
So on TikTok, I'm Jody k Tay on Instagram, I'm
the same thing, but with an L at the end,
Jode Kate Tail Hey y L And then yeah, my
masterclass and all information is also on my website, which
is jodykta dot com.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Is only in person now it's virtual.

Speaker 2 (57:11):
We have girls all across the world and we will we.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
Will include the link. Thanks the discersion of this episode
at to make sure you get it. Thank you guys
so much for tuning in. Make sure you become a patron.
Make sure you buy our books. This has been another
episode of Decisions, Decisions.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Bye,

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Mandii B

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}EP 446: The Box Theory (ft. Jodie K. Taylor)