July 27, 2025 • 31 mins
Why do some sounds feel like a personal attack while others just fade into the background? In this episode, Titi and Zakiya dive into the science of noise with journalist Chris Berdik, author of Clamor: How Noise Took Over the World and How We Can Take It Back. They explore how noise impacts your sleep, stress, heart, and focus—even when you think you’re tuning it out. From the sonic fallout of gentrification to rogue scientists chasing deadly soundwaves, we’re unpacking the cultural, biological, and political power of noise. Spoiler: silence isn’t always the goal.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
TC.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
You've been around, You've seen me live many places. Oh yes,
I move a lot, but nothing gets me up out
of there quicker than a noisy neighbor. I feel like
I'm so sensitive to it.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
And you know, as soon as you tell me, you're like,
I can hear my neighbors. I'm like, oh, give her
three months, she's gonna be gone. She just needs to
find a place. She's gonna be out of there. My friend,
uh uh, those ears are sensitive. She don't want to
hear none of it. She's not gonna be like, oh,
you shouldn't be doing nothing. But she's like, if I
can find quiet her neighbor, I will opt for that.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm gonna opt for it. I know I have a
little sensitivity, but I also know I'm not alone. There's
plenty of memes, but people are like the moon walking upstairs,
or they're a town stomping or like next door. I'm like,
they have to be playing soccer, they must be preparing
for the World Cup.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
What is it?
Speaker 5 (00:55):
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Oh my gosh, I'm TT and I'm Zakiyah And this
is Dope Labs. Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast
that mixes hardcore science with pop culture and a healthy
dose of friendship. All right, we know I'm not alone
(01:20):
when it comes to the noise and just sound in general.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
M h.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
You know, and I think that we also know that
not all noises created equal. There's some noise that you
can live with where it's like, Okay, my washing machine
is loud, but it's fine. But then there are other
noises where it's like, uh uh, I can't build this
at all, Like nails on a chalkboard.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
My equivalent of nails on a chalkboard is people playing
YouTube videos and stuff on speakerphone, Like why does it
sound so different than if it were coming from real speakers.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
I'm just like, why do you think all of us
want to hear what you're doing? Just like people have
physical space bubbles, I feel like we should also be
considering people's sound bubbles. Yes, I'll be trying to be quiet,
like I'm like, I don't want to be intruding on
people's ears.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yes, I was also raised with parents that said shush.
It feels like nobody ever told some of y'all to
shush listen.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
We used to be a country. We used to shush
people all the time. Now everybody's just running rampant. So
considering all of that, what do we want to know?
I want to know what makes a sound a noise?
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, Like, it's not just sound anymore exactly, it's a
nuisance exactly. And it feels like there's a thin line
between what makes the difference between the two. So I
want to know where that line is.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I want to know more about not just how we
categorize the sounds, but like the intensity of it, So
more about volume, you know. I know Apple had that
thing on the phone that's like, yeah, you could set
up and it'll tell you or your Apple Watch it
will be like loud noise. I used to do it
in the shower, and so I'm like, when can a sound?
And I was like, is that just the sound of
the water that is that dangerous for me?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
And mine would do it every time I laughed, which
I felt like was offensive or acuri.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
I don't know, you could choose.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
But what decibels do we need to be looking out
for or is it just decibels?
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Is decibels what.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
We should be checking?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
You know? I feel like prolonged exposure to noise can
drive someone nuts like my friend, but is it deeper
than that, Like can a long exposure to noise have
other effects on us?
Speaker 5 (03:35):
Let's jump into the dissection.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Okay, so today we're talking to someone who has brought
the conversation about noise front and center, and they've done
that in a way that challenges some long held assumptions.
We're joined by Chris Burdick, author of Clamor How the
Noise took Over the World and How We Can Take
It Back.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
And this book really had a side eye everything. They're
doing construction two houses down for me, and we want
to figure out how our brains brace for sound. It's
part science, part history, and all real life implications.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Chris, Welcome to the lab.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Thank you guys so much for having me.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
All Right, I'm excited to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Okay, because you called noise a major public health threat,
and that's a strong claim, but I am in agreement
because I feel like I hear.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Noise that other people don't very sensitive and I'm like,
what is that?
Speaker 5 (04:32):
What did you hear that?
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Low hum?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
And I think before we even get into the effects
of it, I want to say define for our audience
what counts as noise because it's not just as you
say in your book, is more than unwanted sound. Help
us understand what noise is.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
It's very tricky to define it.
Speaker 6 (04:48):
And one new definition that has come up that I
kind of like was put out by the American Public
Health Association in twenty twenty one, and they said noise
should be defined and as unwanted and or harmful sound.
And so they were saying what has been known but
has been overlooked, is that whether or not you love
(05:09):
the sound that you're listening to at ninety five decibels
in your AirPods, it's going to cause damage to your
inner ear. You know, you have interruptions of sleep that
you are not aware of from noise from roads and
airplanes and et cetera. And that does not require you
to not want the sound. It just happens. So there's
(05:30):
all sorts of ways that noise can affect us. It
is a subjective thing, but there are many many ways
that go beyond the sort of simplified way that we've
traditionally defined it.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So you mentioned ninety five decibels, and I want to
give some context for folks. So around ten decibels is
the level of like normal breathing. We go up from
their thirty decibels. That's a whisper, and both of those
are designated as like safe noise levels. On the other
end of that range is like a police siren and
that's around eighty decibels, and that is designated as loud.
(06:04):
Now ninety to one hundred and ten, that's considered very
loud and dangerous if you were exposed to it for
longer than thirty minutes. And so that's stuff like power tools, blenders,
anybody has a ninja creamy, I know you know what
I'm talking about. And like nightclubs, so you really only
need to be in the club for thirty minutes, get
you a couple dances, and get out there.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
It was free before midnight.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Just go there thirty minutes, get out out, and then
one to one hundred and forty decibels that's dangerous noise
levels and that's painful. So that's concerts, fireworks, gunshots, jackhammers, ambulances.
This tracks for me because the last time I was
at a concert, I was like, oh, I need ear plugs,
I needed things. I need to open the ear things
(06:46):
they put on the babies for safety.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
So also in Clamor, you challenge the classic definition and
you make the case that it's not always about volume,
it's about contacts and perception. And so just like the
cure saying, where I will be in her house and
she'd be like, do you hear that?
Speaker 4 (07:04):
It's driving me nuts? And I'm like, is it me talking?
Speaker 3 (07:10):
And she'd be like, no, my neighbors. Can't you hear them?
It sounds like they're they're moving something slim.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
And cabinets, we're back is something.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I don't hear a thing, and so I don't feel
like I notice those types of frequencies. Can you break
down how quieter sounds can still cause harm or distraction?
And why do we underestimate noise as a population.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
Our hearing is a defensive sensory system first and foremost.
If you think about when we go to sleep, we
shut down for the night, our eyes close, but your
ears stay awake. Your ears are still attuned. And then
what they're looking for are signals. They're looking for anything
that is a potential danger to you, and we have
(07:57):
no idea what the dangers might be, so we are
constantly kind of what the sleep research is called having
these awakenings, so periods of time when our resting heart
rate raises up, our blood pressure goes back up to normal.
These happen about twenty to twenty five times a night
in a normal night's sleep. The problem happens when sound
(08:20):
that the research says starts around forty five decibels. When
that kind of sound is in your bedroom, it can
start to increase the number of awakenings that you have.
This can lead to a chronic triggering of a stress
reaction has all of the same cascading impacts that kind
of a chronic stress has and lead to those sorts
(08:41):
of things. So that's one way when you're awake, the
same things happen with Say you're in an office space
and you're trying to get your work done and your
coworkers are chattering on their cell phones with their friends
about their weekends or something like that. This is something
that's not pticularly loud, but because you can understand them
(09:03):
and your brain is looking for those signals, and so
your focus has diverted, your ability to do your work
is stymied, and this causes again stress. People who have
done the lab work on this show how when people
are trying to do these cognitive tasks and they're being
interrupted by noise, then their cortisol levels go up and
their stress reactions go up.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
That means my cortisol is through the roof.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Now, when you gave that example, Chris, of being in
office and hearing other people chatter, I feel that way
about when people are playing like their phones or watching
videos on speaker and you can hear it because it's
like a high pitch. Do you know what I'm saying?
I read rather if it was like musaic or something
that I can't pick up every now and then I
(09:49):
hear the words and I'm like, what is it?
Speaker 5 (09:51):
I hate it?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Well, that's the thing I wrote about restaurant noise.
Speaker 6 (09:56):
So there's a there's one issue there where in the
nineteen nineties they that they wanted to get rid of
all the upholstery and all the carpets and got this
new modern industrial look with all kinds of hard surfaces everywhere,
which allowed every sound to reverberate and endlessly bounce. And
then you brought the kitchen in from where it was
and put it in the middle of everybody, and then
(10:17):
you had cranking up the music so this creates a
cacophony that people have a real hard time having conversations in.
But on the flip side, have you ever eaten in
a restaurant that's too quiet where you hear everybody's slurping
their soup next to you and you can hear everybody's
you know, everyone has to like whisper and they're kind
(10:38):
of afraid to talk. It's excruciating. And so there's a
level at which having sound as a background, when you
can't distinguish and it's not intelligible, is a benefit to
your ability to focus and have conversations or do your work.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Now, I think we're talking about sound and noise as
a nuisance, but in your book you talk about noise
being weaponized, and I'm curious about, like, what's one of
the wildest examples you came across while researching this.
Speaker 6 (11:11):
So well, the wildest one was a French I think
it might have been Russian originally, that he was living
in Marseille and he was a rogue scientist at this
lab where he was trying to use infrasound, which is
sound that's below our ability to hear. It's really low frequency,
and he was trying to use that to essentially kill people.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I mean, oh, what like.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
The ear did kind of Okay, So let's talk about
frequency before we get into this death sound. So sound
is all about vibrations, and they're invisible waves that travel
through the air, water, and solids. And frequency is how
many of those vibrations happen in a given amount of time,
(11:57):
and that's measured and hurts. And the faster the vibrations,
the higher the frequency. And that's when we hear a
high pitch sound like a whistle. And on the other
side of that, when vibrations are slower, like the deep
banging of a drum, we hear a lower pitch. So,
in essence, frequency and pitch are two sides of the
(12:18):
same coin. Fast vibrations create a high pitch and slow
vibrations create low pitch. Okay, So Chris, let's continue with
the death sound machine that they were trying to make.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
He created this giant whistle essentially that blasted out in
for sound at t one hundred and sixty decibels or
something like that, so very intense but very low frequency.
The problem was he just he didn't kill anybody. The
body is too compost the problem.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Okay, this is getting a little dark.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
The problem for his theory.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Okay, with you, I'm with you.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
And with such a low frequency, that sound wave is
like really big, you know, and it would be really
hard to actually hit a person with a sound wave
that is that big. It's like trying to hit a
fly with a jump rope, you know, Like if you're
like flinging that jump rope up and down to create waves,
(13:22):
like the chances of you hitting the fly is yeah,
slim to none.
Speaker 6 (13:28):
So the idea being, if you're going to try to
harness that much power to hurt somebody, there's a lot
easier ways than trying to aim some kind of infrasound
gun at them. In general, the sound weapons that are
actually working and are out there are based on loudness.
They're based on just blowing your ears out, which has
(13:50):
some serious long term irreversible damage. These things were developed
by the Navy. They're called the l RAD, which is
the long Range Acoustic Device, and they have subsequently been
used by law enforcement, and that's been very controversial because,
like I said, when you get hit by a sound
(14:11):
that loud and it damages your inner ear, you don't
get that back. So it's as a crowd control measure.
It's controversial depending on how it's used. How powerful.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, Oh my goodness, I don't think I knew that.
I did not know that that's still in use today.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
Or protests in New York of it was a police
brutality case that was that people were protesting and they
came out with this l rad device and they blasted
at people. They were holding it right at them. There
was a lawsuit where the defense was saying that the
police department was saying sound noise is not a use
(14:48):
of force, but of course it is.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
It is.
Speaker 6 (14:52):
It is okay, So the ruling came down that they
settled it. Basically, they're allowed to use this advice now
to sort of broadcast that please disperse commands, but they're
not allowed to use what's called the deterrent tone, which
is the super high intensity pain causing decibel tone. That's
(15:13):
where things stand. They're still in the arsenal right.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Wow, I think this is a great transition into the biology.
You just talked about the extreme effects of really really
(15:39):
loud sound, But how does chronic noise affect our bodies
like sleep, heart, and stress?
Speaker 6 (15:45):
The stress response in an acute way is a potential
benefit to us. This is something that when you have
a response, you have this inflammatory response where you know,
white blood cells and other disease fighting cells come rushing out.
When you have this stress response, just in case you
know you're about to get bit by a sabertooth tiger
(16:07):
or something like that, you need to have that wound
healing quickly. But like any stress response, when it becomes chronic,
when you have so much inflammation coming all the time,
your arteries get clogged, you have a dysregulation in terms
of hormones. Your stress hormones are all out of whack. Basically,
(16:28):
stress in a chronic way, no matter what the source,
is a toxic thing.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
There was a.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
Study out of mass General Hospital that was doing pet scans,
full body pet scans of people who had cancer and
so they were coming back periodically to have to be
checked to see, you know, if they still had you know,
we're still in remission. And so they did these pet scans,
and so these cardiologists looked at the data of seven
(16:57):
or ten years of these pet scans, and they looked
at where these folks lived, and they decided they sort
of categorized them as being in they were stressed exposed
or not stress exposed. If they lived in an area
that was high noise exposure based on the modeling of
nearby roads or overflights and transportation noise, they were stress exposed.
(17:20):
It's part of the kind of stress soup. And I
often think about a lot of the non auditory noise
that we have to deal with now that's also stressing
us out. All of the overstuffed email in boxes, and
we can't get away from the pings and dings of
our phones because people are constantly trying to reach us,
and then we are scrolling through our social media and
(17:43):
that's stressing people out. I think it's of a piece
that is weighing on our cognition and on our focus
and on our I don't know, peace of mind, for
lack of a better term.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
We've talked about this a little bit. T T and
I did this kind of web campaign that was about
looking up from your phone. Just because we get tied
in this loop of scrolling and seeing notifications. I have
moved to like putting my phone and focus mode where
I don't even see the badges that show up on
the apps. I don't even want to see them anymore,
(18:17):
you know, because I think those kind of things just
build up a little bit of stress and every now then,
like especially when you start your morning with that kind
of activity, it sets the tone for the entire day.
And you know, I was going to ask you to
help me understand how anticipating noise, you know, could affect us.
But once you define noise as unwanted signal, then it
(18:41):
became very clear. Because I was thinking, I can anticipate, Oh,
there's gonna be so many emails, or oh I I
have this project, have so much stuff to do, they're
gonna message me. Yes, you ever wake up a few
minutes before.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Or when somebody's ring tone is your alarm sound the
amount of stressed or even like, oh you have a
meeting coming in fifteen minutes, that sound, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
It stresses me out every.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
Time I put my phone on silent, and I get
in trouble for it because I miss all the calls
from my wife and my kids are like trying to
get me.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
But it's worth it.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
You're not stressed out. They are because they can't get
in touch me.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
That's right.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
My court is all is low.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I love that that's so funny.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I think we're talking about silencing our devices, getting rid
of some of the noise. This also makes me think
about this concept. There's this book about like your address
or zip code, and it talks about how almost it's
almost like destiny of sorts, where you live in your
exposure to yes, chemical and ear pollutants, but sound as well,
(19:51):
like you're talking about. And I think it makes me
think about is silence always the goal or are there
other types of sounds that are good for us? Because
we had a listener Linda who sent me a message
asked about sound baths and healing and so can sound
be restorative in a way?
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Yes, And I'm glad you asked that because another thing
that when I started writing this book, when the pandemic
really came down on us, I had to cancel all
the reporting I had planned, and everything had to be
stopped for a while. But beyond that, I was kind
of struck by all of a sudden, the cities were
emptying out, and businesses were shutting down, and people weren't
(20:30):
going to school and nobody was getting together. And when
people measured this different cities, they found a four to
six decibel drop during the height of the COVID, and
people had a lot of I had mixed feelings about it,
of course, it was sort of like, yeah, I love
hearing the birds.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
That's great.
Speaker 6 (20:50):
I do find some solace in that amidst all this insanity.
But you can't escape the context that this quiet world
stems from people losing their livelihoods, people losing their lives, people,
you know, over trauma, a huge amount of trauma. And
so I started thinking about what do we really want
(21:13):
when we're fighting noise? What is the kind of goal here?
Is it just quiet? Because we had quiet? And I
don't know if that's really what we wanted. There are
so many ways that sound can be our ally, and
when we think about it, especially when we think about
it proactively, and we're not just what I call whack
(21:37):
a molling decibels. Quiet is not the only worthwhile sonic goal,
and silence certainly is not.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Are there long term of differences and people who grow
up around a lot of noise versus people who don't.
But then when I think of that question, I think
of the demographics of people who are most likely going
to be in louder environments. There was someone who wrote
that the sound of gentrification is silence. So wealthier people
(22:05):
weaponize noise ordinances to turn down vibrant cultures, particularly in
areas undergoing rapid gentrification.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Can you talk.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
About how silence is weaponized and then the effects of
silence versus noise on different populations.
Speaker 6 (22:22):
First of all, I think two things can be true.
I think our interpretation of sound and what we designate
noise versus sound is absolutely impacted by our personal histories,
our cultural backgrounds, our mood, what have you.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
That matters a lot.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
I don't know that everybody who grew up in a
city feels the same way about sound, or I would
certainly not say that everybody belonging to any particular ethnic
groups thinks the same way about sound. But those things
do matter a lot, and it's true in the same
vein that noise ordinances and anti noise campaigns throughout history
(23:08):
have been used to target the particular noise makers, not
just the sounds themselves, just to people that if you
were in Victorian England, you have all these immigrants coming
from southern Europe working in the factories there, and then
they were the targets of the anti noise or ordinances
and when you have gentrification, noise complaints go up and
(23:31):
they correlate with that change in.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
The neighborhood as well. And I know that there is
I think there were.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
In the eighties, there was an anti noise campaign. There
was ostensibly just about amplified music in public, but it
basically used to target black youth with boomboxes.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
It's the key.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
I don't know if you remember, but I talked to
you about this because I used to live in DC
proper in Shaw and there was a store that had
a speaker outside of it that played Go Go music
and every day it was blast and it was loud,
but it was like the sounds of DC Go Go
music exactly.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
It's like a lot of percussion, and no one had
a problem. We would always just you know, walk past it.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
But then there was this luxury apartment that was built
like kind of right across the street from that, and
someone started calling the police and complaining, and so that
store had to move their speaker away. But that was
like a staple in the neighborhood, and so it caused
like a huge backlash where it started the whole Don't
(24:51):
Mute DC movement and sooner or later that speaker was
right back out there playing Go Go because we read that.
Speaker 6 (24:59):
I think the other thing that I think is true
is that there is so much that we share as
humans in our reactions to sound.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
We share the same.
Speaker 6 (25:11):
Delicate inner ear anatomy and connections to our brain. We
share the same hair trigger connections between hearing and our
fight or flight response and stress. We share certain limitations
and our ability to focus. We all need to sleep.
I talk to so many people from Washington Heights and
(25:34):
in southwest Detroit and areas that have so many other
kind of environmental insults aimed at them, and they care
about noise. They care about noise as part of a
sort of caring about having a healthy place to live.
Sometimes we get caught up in one or the other.
We get caught up in noise as just a straight
up health threat that is this next second half smoke
(25:57):
and we need to stop it, or we get caught
up in talking about this is another just another piece
of gentrification. I think that these two things exist side
by side.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, as you've been sharing this, I've been thinking about
structurally some things we know. I've been thinking about even
just accit like even just trees in neighborhoods to absorb sounds,
to keep in place, especially I'm in the South, to
keep neighborhoods cooler where they have historically been trees and
they're able to give great tree cover and to absorb sound.
(26:29):
I think about it in the context of, yes, it
would be great, you know, the neighbor thing I'm used to.
I have been in a townholl I don't want to
say I'm used to I deal with I've been in
a townhome or an apartment, but I think that everybody
can't be in a single family home. The best solutions
are some kind of trade off of yes, hearing noise,
but also being close to work, and being close to
(26:52):
not just work, but like parks, and being close to
healthy food. Right, and when we have mixed use developments
or we have multifamily units and structures that allow that,
there may be some noise trade off that comes with that.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
TT and I think a.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Lot about soundscapes as creators of audio. She came to
visit me at my parents' house a couple of weeks ago,
and I was thinking about when I first got there
and you were like, oh, we're in the country, and
I'm like yes, And I had to just stop and
be like.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
What do I hear? What birds? Do I hear? What
insects trilling? Do I hear?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
That?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Feel like home to me? That's part of my soundscape.
That would probably be a nuisance to someone else that didn't.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
Like what is that? I'm like, that's a frog?
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Don't you know that? I don't that near me?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Told us about things you've seen that are creative or
maybe even counterintuitive approaches to creating soundscapes that fight noise
pollution also allow vibrant living.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Yeah, So I'll tell you about a researcher who she's
an urbanist. Her name is Antonella Riddicki, and she created
an app called Hush City. Antonella was looking at some
of the big cities that have quiet areas, and what
she saw was many of them tend to be in
the middle of some giant park, or on the outskirts
(28:13):
of the city, or somewhere that people have a really
hard time getting to them. And so the question is
what's the purpose here. The widest number of people access
to a respite from city noise and a place to
feel rejuvenated, we should have what she called everyday quiet areas.
So the purpose of this Hush City app was the
(28:35):
crowdsource what everyday quiet areas would be in your city
and what she was doing it as part of a
public service, but part of a research project. So the
question is, like, what were people identifying as quiet? What
did people like? And it wasn't the lowest decibel places.
They liked places that had a different kind of an
(28:56):
acoustic feel to your busy, crazy streetscape. Maybe it was
a pocket park, maybe it was just a quieter side street.
They really liked when they could hear people, not tons
of people, like they like places that were conducive to socializing.
Antonella said is people are not looking for silence, they
(29:17):
want places of high sonic quality. And this approach is
kind of, I think, gaining ground at least where people
think about sound already. They're starting to think about soundscapes,
They're starting to think about high sonic quality and how
to achieve that and what that means. The larger point
I think is that sound connects us to our world,
(29:39):
it connects us to our neighborhood, it connects us to
each other. And when I think about noise, noise gets
in the way of that noise is something that interrupts
our connections.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
I feel like I've learned so much about sound from
reading your book and talking to you today, Like it's
really just revolutionizing how I'm just moving through the world
and the things that I'm paying attention to.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
All Right, can you let folks know where they can
find your book.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
The book is called clamor How Noise took Over the
World and How We Can Take It Back. It is
out now and available everywhere books are sold. I'll direct
people to my web page, which is TRIPLEW dot Chris
Burdick dot com, and that will link you to the
book and some other writing that I have done. Anything
(30:29):
you want to know and be able to contact me
through it as well.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
That sounds great, amazing.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
This is really helping me. I just had some neighbors moving.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I was just complaining to ts she was and so
I was like, Okay, this is.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
Just part of living. This is important and I'm getting
used to it. I'm getting better.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope
Labs podcast, tt.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Is on X and Instagram at d R Underscore t Shoe.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
And you can find Takiya at z said so.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
Dope Labs is a production of Lamanada Media.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate
producer is Issara Savez.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Dope Labs is sound design, edited and mixed by James Farber.
Lamanada Media's Vice President of Partnerships and Production is Jackie Danziger.
Executive producer from iHeart Podcast is Katrina Norvil.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
Marketing lead is Alison Kanter.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Original music composed and produced by Taka Yatsuzawa and Alex
sudi Ura, with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Lab
is executive produced by us T T Show Dia and
Kia Wattley.
TC.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
You've been around, You've seen me live many places. Oh yes,
I move a lot, but nothing gets me up out
of there quicker than a noisy neighbor. I feel like
I'm so sensitive to it.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
And you know, as soon as you tell me, you're like,
I can hear my neighbors. I'm like, oh, give her
three months, she's gonna be gone. She just needs to
find a place. She's gonna be out of there. My friend,
uh uh, those ears are sensitive. She don't want to
hear none of it. She's not gonna be like, oh,
you shouldn't be doing nothing. But she's like, if I
can find quiet her neighbor, I will opt for that.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm gonna opt for it. I know I have a
little sensitivity, but I also know I'm not alone. There's
plenty of memes, but people are like the moon walking upstairs,
or they're a town stomping or like next door. I'm like,
they have to be playing soccer, they must be preparing
for the World Cup.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
What is it?
Speaker 5 (00:55):
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Oh my gosh, I'm TT and I'm Zakiyah And this
is Dope Labs. Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast
that mixes hardcore science with pop culture and a healthy
dose of friendship. All right, we know I'm not alone
(01:20):
when it comes to the noise and just sound in general.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
M h.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
You know, and I think that we also know that
not all noises created equal. There's some noise that you
can live with where it's like, Okay, my washing machine
is loud, but it's fine. But then there are other
noises where it's like, uh uh, I can't build this
at all, Like nails on a chalkboard.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
My equivalent of nails on a chalkboard is people playing
YouTube videos and stuff on speakerphone, Like why does it
sound so different than if it were coming from real speakers.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
I'm just like, why do you think all of us
want to hear what you're doing? Just like people have
physical space bubbles, I feel like we should also be
considering people's sound bubbles. Yes, I'll be trying to be quiet,
like I'm like, I don't want to be intruding on
people's ears.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yes, I was also raised with parents that said shush.
It feels like nobody ever told some of y'all to
shush listen.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
We used to be a country. We used to shush
people all the time. Now everybody's just running rampant. So
considering all of that, what do we want to know?
I want to know what makes a sound a noise?
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yeah, Like, it's not just sound anymore exactly, it's a
nuisance exactly. And it feels like there's a thin line
between what makes the difference between the two. So I
want to know where that line is.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I want to know more about not just how we
categorize the sounds, but like the intensity of it, So
more about volume, you know. I know Apple had that
thing on the phone that's like, yeah, you could set
up and it'll tell you or your Apple Watch it
will be like loud noise. I used to do it
in the shower, and so I'm like, when can a sound?
And I was like, is that just the sound of
the water that is that dangerous for me?
Speaker 3 (03:05):
And mine would do it every time I laughed, which
I felt like was offensive or acuri.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
I don't know, you could choose.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
But what decibels do we need to be looking out
for or is it just decibels?
Speaker 5 (03:18):
Is decibels what.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
We should be checking?
Speaker 3 (03:20):
You know? I feel like prolonged exposure to noise can
drive someone nuts like my friend, but is it deeper
than that, Like can a long exposure to noise have
other effects on us?
Speaker 5 (03:35):
Let's jump into the dissection.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Okay, so today we're talking to someone who has brought
the conversation about noise front and center, and they've done
that in a way that challenges some long held assumptions.
We're joined by Chris Burdick, author of Clamor How the
Noise took Over the World and How We Can Take
It Back.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
And this book really had a side eye everything. They're
doing construction two houses down for me, and we want
to figure out how our brains brace for sound. It's
part science, part history, and all real life implications.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
Chris, Welcome to the lab.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
Thank you guys so much for having me.
Speaker 5 (04:16):
All Right, I'm excited to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Okay, because you called noise a major public health threat,
and that's a strong claim, but I am in agreement
because I feel like I hear.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
Noise that other people don't very sensitive and I'm like,
what is that?
Speaker 5 (04:32):
What did you hear that?
Speaker 4 (04:33):
Low hum?
Speaker 2 (04:33):
And I think before we even get into the effects
of it, I want to say define for our audience
what counts as noise because it's not just as you
say in your book, is more than unwanted sound. Help
us understand what noise is.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
It's very tricky to define it.
Speaker 6 (04:48):
And one new definition that has come up that I
kind of like was put out by the American Public
Health Association in twenty twenty one, and they said noise
should be defined and as unwanted and or harmful sound.
And so they were saying what has been known but
has been overlooked, is that whether or not you love
(05:09):
the sound that you're listening to at ninety five decibels
in your AirPods, it's going to cause damage to your
inner ear. You know, you have interruptions of sleep that
you are not aware of from noise from roads and
airplanes and et cetera. And that does not require you
to not want the sound. It just happens. So there's
(05:30):
all sorts of ways that noise can affect us. It
is a subjective thing, but there are many many ways
that go beyond the sort of simplified way that we've
traditionally defined it.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So you mentioned ninety five decibels, and I want to
give some context for folks. So around ten decibels is
the level of like normal breathing. We go up from
their thirty decibels. That's a whisper, and both of those
are designated as like safe noise levels. On the other
end of that range is like a police siren and
that's around eighty decibels, and that is designated as loud.
(06:04):
Now ninety to one hundred and ten, that's considered very
loud and dangerous if you were exposed to it for
longer than thirty minutes. And so that's stuff like power tools, blenders,
anybody has a ninja creamy, I know you know what
I'm talking about. And like nightclubs, so you really only
need to be in the club for thirty minutes, get
you a couple dances, and get out there.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
It was free before midnight.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Just go there thirty minutes, get out out, and then
one to one hundred and forty decibels that's dangerous noise
levels and that's painful. So that's concerts, fireworks, gunshots, jackhammers, ambulances.
This tracks for me because the last time I was
at a concert, I was like, oh, I need ear plugs,
I needed things. I need to open the ear things
(06:46):
they put on the babies for safety.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
So also in Clamor, you challenge the classic definition and
you make the case that it's not always about volume,
it's about contacts and perception. And so just like the
cure saying, where I will be in her house and
she'd be like, do you hear that?
Speaker 4 (07:04):
It's driving me nuts? And I'm like, is it me talking?
Speaker 3 (07:10):
And she'd be like, no, my neighbors. Can't you hear them?
It sounds like they're they're moving something slim.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
And cabinets, we're back is something.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I don't hear a thing, and so I don't feel
like I notice those types of frequencies. Can you break
down how quieter sounds can still cause harm or distraction?
And why do we underestimate noise as a population.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
Our hearing is a defensive sensory system first and foremost.
If you think about when we go to sleep, we
shut down for the night, our eyes close, but your
ears stay awake. Your ears are still attuned. And then
what they're looking for are signals. They're looking for anything
that is a potential danger to you, and we have
(07:57):
no idea what the dangers might be, so we are
constantly kind of what the sleep research is called having
these awakenings, so periods of time when our resting heart
rate raises up, our blood pressure goes back up to normal.
These happen about twenty to twenty five times a night
in a normal night's sleep. The problem happens when sound
(08:20):
that the research says starts around forty five decibels. When
that kind of sound is in your bedroom, it can
start to increase the number of awakenings that you have.
This can lead to a chronic triggering of a stress
reaction has all of the same cascading impacts that kind
of a chronic stress has and lead to those sorts
(08:41):
of things. So that's one way when you're awake, the
same things happen with Say you're in an office space
and you're trying to get your work done and your
coworkers are chattering on their cell phones with their friends
about their weekends or something like that. This is something
that's not pticularly loud, but because you can understand them
(09:03):
and your brain is looking for those signals, and so
your focus has diverted, your ability to do your work
is stymied, and this causes again stress. People who have
done the lab work on this show how when people
are trying to do these cognitive tasks and they're being
interrupted by noise, then their cortisol levels go up and
their stress reactions go up.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
That means my cortisol is through the roof.
Speaker 4 (09:26):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Now, when you gave that example, Chris, of being in
office and hearing other people chatter, I feel that way
about when people are playing like their phones or watching
videos on speaker and you can hear it because it's
like a high pitch. Do you know what I'm saying?
I read rather if it was like musaic or something
that I can't pick up every now and then I
(09:49):
hear the words and I'm like, what is it?
Speaker 5 (09:51):
I hate it?
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Well, that's the thing I wrote about restaurant noise.
Speaker 6 (09:56):
So there's a there's one issue there where in the
nineteen nineties they that they wanted to get rid of
all the upholstery and all the carpets and got this
new modern industrial look with all kinds of hard surfaces everywhere,
which allowed every sound to reverberate and endlessly bounce. And
then you brought the kitchen in from where it was
and put it in the middle of everybody, and then
(10:17):
you had cranking up the music so this creates a
cacophony that people have a real hard time having conversations in.
But on the flip side, have you ever eaten in
a restaurant that's too quiet where you hear everybody's slurping
their soup next to you and you can hear everybody's
you know, everyone has to like whisper and they're kind
(10:38):
of afraid to talk. It's excruciating. And so there's a
level at which having sound as a background, when you
can't distinguish and it's not intelligible, is a benefit to
your ability to focus and have conversations or do your work.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Now, I think we're talking about sound and noise as
a nuisance, but in your book you talk about noise
being weaponized, and I'm curious about, like, what's one of
the wildest examples you came across while researching this.
Speaker 6 (11:11):
So well, the wildest one was a French I think
it might have been Russian originally, that he was living
in Marseille and he was a rogue scientist at this
lab where he was trying to use infrasound, which is
sound that's below our ability to hear. It's really low frequency,
and he was trying to use that to essentially kill people.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
I mean, oh, what like.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
The ear did kind of Okay, So let's talk about
frequency before we get into this death sound. So sound
is all about vibrations, and they're invisible waves that travel
through the air, water, and solids. And frequency is how
many of those vibrations happen in a given amount of time,
(11:57):
and that's measured and hurts. And the faster the vibrations,
the higher the frequency. And that's when we hear a
high pitch sound like a whistle. And on the other
side of that, when vibrations are slower, like the deep
banging of a drum, we hear a lower pitch. So,
in essence, frequency and pitch are two sides of the
(12:18):
same coin. Fast vibrations create a high pitch and slow
vibrations create low pitch. Okay, So Chris, let's continue with
the death sound machine that they were trying to make.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
He created this giant whistle essentially that blasted out in
for sound at t one hundred and sixty decibels or
something like that, so very intense but very low frequency.
The problem was he just he didn't kill anybody. The
body is too compost the problem.
Speaker 4 (12:52):
Okay, this is getting a little dark.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
The problem for his theory.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Okay, with you, I'm with you.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
And with such a low frequency, that sound wave is
like really big, you know, and it would be really
hard to actually hit a person with a sound wave
that is that big. It's like trying to hit a
fly with a jump rope, you know, Like if you're
like flinging that jump rope up and down to create waves,
(13:22):
like the chances of you hitting the fly is yeah,
slim to none.
Speaker 6 (13:28):
So the idea being, if you're going to try to
harness that much power to hurt somebody, there's a lot
easier ways than trying to aim some kind of infrasound
gun at them. In general, the sound weapons that are
actually working and are out there are based on loudness.
They're based on just blowing your ears out, which has
(13:50):
some serious long term irreversible damage. These things were developed
by the Navy. They're called the l RAD, which is
the long Range Acoustic Device, and they have subsequently been
used by law enforcement, and that's been very controversial because,
like I said, when you get hit by a sound
(14:11):
that loud and it damages your inner ear, you don't
get that back. So it's as a crowd control measure.
It's controversial depending on how it's used. How powerful.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Yeah, Oh my goodness, I don't think I knew that.
I did not know that that's still in use today.
Speaker 6 (14:27):
Or protests in New York of it was a police
brutality case that was that people were protesting and they
came out with this l rad device and they blasted
at people. They were holding it right at them. There
was a lawsuit where the defense was saying that the
police department was saying sound noise is not a use
(14:48):
of force, but of course it is.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
It is.
Speaker 6 (14:52):
It is okay, So the ruling came down that they
settled it. Basically, they're allowed to use this advice now
to sort of broadcast that please disperse commands, but they're
not allowed to use what's called the deterrent tone, which
is the super high intensity pain causing decibel tone. That's
(15:13):
where things stand. They're still in the arsenal right.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Wow, I think this is a great transition into the biology.
You just talked about the extreme effects of really really
(15:39):
loud sound, But how does chronic noise affect our bodies
like sleep, heart, and stress?
Speaker 6 (15:45):
The stress response in an acute way is a potential
benefit to us. This is something that when you have
a response, you have this inflammatory response where you know,
white blood cells and other disease fighting cells come rushing out.
When you have this stress response, just in case you
know you're about to get bit by a sabertooth tiger
(16:07):
or something like that, you need to have that wound
healing quickly. But like any stress response, when it becomes chronic,
when you have so much inflammation coming all the time,
your arteries get clogged, you have a dysregulation in terms
of hormones. Your stress hormones are all out of whack. Basically,
(16:28):
stress in a chronic way, no matter what the source,
is a toxic thing.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
There was a.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
Study out of mass General Hospital that was doing pet scans,
full body pet scans of people who had cancer and
so they were coming back periodically to have to be
checked to see, you know, if they still had you know,
we're still in remission. And so they did these pet scans,
and so these cardiologists looked at the data of seven
(16:57):
or ten years of these pet scans, and they looked
at where these folks lived, and they decided they sort
of categorized them as being in they were stressed exposed
or not stress exposed. If they lived in an area
that was high noise exposure based on the modeling of
nearby roads or overflights and transportation noise, they were stress exposed.
(17:20):
It's part of the kind of stress soup. And I
often think about a lot of the non auditory noise
that we have to deal with now that's also stressing
us out. All of the overstuffed email in boxes, and
we can't get away from the pings and dings of
our phones because people are constantly trying to reach us,
and then we are scrolling through our social media and
(17:43):
that's stressing people out. I think it's of a piece
that is weighing on our cognition and on our focus
and on our I don't know, peace of mind, for
lack of a better term.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
We've talked about this a little bit. T T and
I did this kind of web campaign that was about
looking up from your phone. Just because we get tied
in this loop of scrolling and seeing notifications. I have
moved to like putting my phone and focus mode where
I don't even see the badges that show up on
the apps. I don't even want to see them anymore,
(18:17):
you know, because I think those kind of things just
build up a little bit of stress and every now then,
like especially when you start your morning with that kind
of activity, it sets the tone for the entire day.
And you know, I was going to ask you to
help me understand how anticipating noise, you know, could affect us.
But once you define noise as unwanted signal, then it
(18:41):
became very clear. Because I was thinking, I can anticipate, Oh,
there's gonna be so many emails, or oh I I
have this project, have so much stuff to do, they're
gonna message me. Yes, you ever wake up a few
minutes before.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Or when somebody's ring tone is your alarm sound the
amount of stressed or even like, oh you have a
meeting coming in fifteen minutes, that sound, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
It stresses me out every.
Speaker 6 (19:08):
Time I put my phone on silent, and I get
in trouble for it because I miss all the calls
from my wife and my kids are like trying to
get me.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
But it's worth it.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
You're not stressed out. They are because they can't get
in touch me.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
That's right.
Speaker 5 (19:24):
My court is all is low.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I love that that's so funny.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
I think we're talking about silencing our devices, getting rid
of some of the noise. This also makes me think
about this concept. There's this book about like your address
or zip code, and it talks about how almost it's
almost like destiny of sorts, where you live in your
exposure to yes, chemical and ear pollutants, but sound as well,
(19:51):
like you're talking about. And I think it makes me
think about is silence always the goal or are there
other types of sounds that are good for us? Because
we had a listener Linda who sent me a message
asked about sound baths and healing and so can sound
be restorative in a way?
Speaker 6 (20:10):
Yes, And I'm glad you asked that because another thing
that when I started writing this book, when the pandemic
really came down on us, I had to cancel all
the reporting I had planned, and everything had to be
stopped for a while. But beyond that, I was kind
of struck by all of a sudden, the cities were
emptying out, and businesses were shutting down, and people weren't
(20:30):
going to school and nobody was getting together. And when
people measured this different cities, they found a four to
six decibel drop during the height of the COVID, and
people had a lot of I had mixed feelings about it,
of course, it was sort of like, yeah, I love
hearing the birds.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
That's great.
Speaker 6 (20:50):
I do find some solace in that amidst all this insanity.
But you can't escape the context that this quiet world
stems from people losing their livelihoods, people losing their lives, people,
you know, over trauma, a huge amount of trauma. And
so I started thinking about what do we really want
(21:13):
when we're fighting noise? What is the kind of goal here?
Is it just quiet? Because we had quiet? And I
don't know if that's really what we wanted. There are
so many ways that sound can be our ally, and
when we think about it, especially when we think about
it proactively, and we're not just what I call whack
(21:37):
a molling decibels. Quiet is not the only worthwhile sonic goal,
and silence certainly is not.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
Are there long term of differences and people who grow
up around a lot of noise versus people who don't.
But then when I think of that question, I think
of the demographics of people who are most likely going
to be in louder environments. There was someone who wrote
that the sound of gentrification is silence. So wealthier people
(22:05):
weaponize noise ordinances to turn down vibrant cultures, particularly in
areas undergoing rapid gentrification.
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Can you talk.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
About how silence is weaponized and then the effects of
silence versus noise on different populations.
Speaker 6 (22:22):
First of all, I think two things can be true.
I think our interpretation of sound and what we designate
noise versus sound is absolutely impacted by our personal histories,
our cultural backgrounds, our mood, what have you.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
That matters a lot.
Speaker 6 (22:46):
I don't know that everybody who grew up in a
city feels the same way about sound, or I would
certainly not say that everybody belonging to any particular ethnic
groups thinks the same way about sound. But those things
do matter a lot, and it's true in the same
vein that noise ordinances and anti noise campaigns throughout history
(23:08):
have been used to target the particular noise makers, not
just the sounds themselves, just to people that if you
were in Victorian England, you have all these immigrants coming
from southern Europe working in the factories there, and then
they were the targets of the anti noise or ordinances
and when you have gentrification, noise complaints go up and
(23:31):
they correlate with that change in.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
The neighborhood as well. And I know that there is
I think there were.
Speaker 6 (23:38):
In the eighties, there was an anti noise campaign. There
was ostensibly just about amplified music in public, but it
basically used to target black youth with boomboxes.
Speaker 5 (24:05):
It's the key.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
I don't know if you remember, but I talked to
you about this because I used to live in DC
proper in Shaw and there was a store that had
a speaker outside of it that played Go Go music
and every day it was blast and it was loud,
but it was like the sounds of DC Go Go
music exactly.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
It's like a lot of percussion, and no one had
a problem. We would always just you know, walk past it.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
But then there was this luxury apartment that was built
like kind of right across the street from that, and
someone started calling the police and complaining, and so that
store had to move their speaker away. But that was
like a staple in the neighborhood, and so it caused
like a huge backlash where it started the whole Don't
(24:51):
Mute DC movement and sooner or later that speaker was
right back out there playing Go Go because we read that.
Speaker 6 (24:59):
I think the other thing that I think is true
is that there is so much that we share as
humans in our reactions to sound.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
We share the same.
Speaker 6 (25:11):
Delicate inner ear anatomy and connections to our brain. We
share the same hair trigger connections between hearing and our
fight or flight response and stress. We share certain limitations
and our ability to focus. We all need to sleep.
I talk to so many people from Washington Heights and
(25:34):
in southwest Detroit and areas that have so many other
kind of environmental insults aimed at them, and they care
about noise. They care about noise as part of a
sort of caring about having a healthy place to live.
Sometimes we get caught up in one or the other.
We get caught up in noise as just a straight
up health threat that is this next second half smoke
(25:57):
and we need to stop it, or we get caught
up in talking about this is another just another piece
of gentrification. I think that these two things exist side
by side.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Yeah, as you've been sharing this, I've been thinking about
structurally some things we know. I've been thinking about even
just accit like even just trees in neighborhoods to absorb sounds,
to keep in place, especially I'm in the South, to
keep neighborhoods cooler where they have historically been trees and
they're able to give great tree cover and to absorb sound.
(26:29):
I think about it in the context of, yes, it
would be great, you know, the neighbor thing I'm used to.
I have been in a townholl I don't want to
say I'm used to I deal with I've been in
a townhome or an apartment, but I think that everybody
can't be in a single family home. The best solutions
are some kind of trade off of yes, hearing noise,
but also being close to work, and being close to
(26:52):
not just work, but like parks, and being close to
healthy food. Right, and when we have mixed use developments
or we have multifamily units and structures that allow that,
there may be some noise trade off that comes with that.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
TT and I think a.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Lot about soundscapes as creators of audio. She came to
visit me at my parents' house a couple of weeks ago,
and I was thinking about when I first got there
and you were like, oh, we're in the country, and
I'm like yes, And I had to just stop and
be like.
Speaker 5 (27:24):
What do I hear? What birds? Do I hear? What
insects trilling? Do I hear?
Speaker 1 (27:28):
That?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
Feel like home to me? That's part of my soundscape.
That would probably be a nuisance to someone else that didn't.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
Like what is that? I'm like, that's a frog?
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Don't you know that? I don't that near me?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Told us about things you've seen that are creative or
maybe even counterintuitive approaches to creating soundscapes that fight noise
pollution also allow vibrant living.
Speaker 6 (27:50):
Yeah, So I'll tell you about a researcher who she's
an urbanist. Her name is Antonella Riddicki, and she created
an app called Hush City. Antonella was looking at some
of the big cities that have quiet areas, and what
she saw was many of them tend to be in
the middle of some giant park, or on the outskirts
(28:13):
of the city, or somewhere that people have a really
hard time getting to them. And so the question is
what's the purpose here. The widest number of people access
to a respite from city noise and a place to
feel rejuvenated, we should have what she called everyday quiet areas.
So the purpose of this Hush City app was the
(28:35):
crowdsource what everyday quiet areas would be in your city
and what she was doing it as part of a
public service, but part of a research project. So the
question is, like, what were people identifying as quiet? What
did people like? And it wasn't the lowest decibel places.
They liked places that had a different kind of an
(28:56):
acoustic feel to your busy, crazy streetscape. Maybe it was
a pocket park, maybe it was just a quieter side street.
They really liked when they could hear people, not tons
of people, like they like places that were conducive to socializing.
Antonella said is people are not looking for silence, they
(29:17):
want places of high sonic quality. And this approach is
kind of, I think, gaining ground at least where people
think about sound already. They're starting to think about soundscapes,
They're starting to think about high sonic quality and how
to achieve that and what that means. The larger point
I think is that sound connects us to our world,
(29:39):
it connects us to our neighborhood, it connects us to
each other. And when I think about noise, noise gets
in the way of that noise is something that interrupts
our connections.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
I feel like I've learned so much about sound from
reading your book and talking to you today, Like it's
really just revolutionizing how I'm just moving through the world
and the things that I'm paying attention to.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
All Right, can you let folks know where they can
find your book.
Speaker 6 (30:09):
The book is called clamor How Noise took Over the
World and How We Can Take It Back. It is
out now and available everywhere books are sold. I'll direct
people to my web page, which is TRIPLEW dot Chris
Burdick dot com, and that will link you to the
book and some other writing that I have done. Anything
(30:29):
you want to know and be able to contact me
through it as well.
Speaker 4 (30:31):
That sounds great, amazing.
Speaker 5 (30:33):
This is really helping me. I just had some neighbors moving.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I was just complaining to ts she was and so
I was like, Okay, this is.
Speaker 5 (30:41):
Just part of living. This is important and I'm getting
used to it. I'm getting better.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
You can find us on X and Instagram at Dope
Labs podcast, tt.
Speaker 5 (31:06):
Is on X and Instagram at d R Underscore t Shoe.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
And you can find Takiya at z said so.
Speaker 5 (31:13):
Dope Labs is a production of Lamanada Media.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
Our senior supervising producer is Kristin Lapour and our associate
producer is Issara Savez.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Dope Labs is sound design, edited and mixed by James Farber.
Lamanada Media's Vice President of Partnerships and Production is Jackie Danziger.
Executive producer from iHeart Podcast is Katrina Norvil.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
Marketing lead is Alison Kanter.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Original music composed and produced by Taka Yatsuzawa and Alex
sudi Ura, with additional music by Elijah Harvey. Dope Lab
is executive produced by us T T Show Dia and
Kia Wattley.
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