December 14, 2025 • 23 mins
Why do Hallmark Christmas movies hit so hard when life feels complicated? We talk cozy psychology, evolving tropes, and which holiday movies are actually worth watching with Hallmark super-reviewer Jenna Golden. Happy Holidays!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
I'm t T and I'm Zakiah, and this is Dope Labs.
Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore
science with pop culture and a healthy.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Dose of friendship.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
T T. This lab is gonna be a fun one today.
I already know it is because wine. It ties in
a few of my favorite things.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
A few of your favorite things. Tell us?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
What are they? So the holiday season? I think it's
just a nice time of year. You know, the radio
stations are playing all the Christmas carols. Mariah Carey back
on her bullshit and I love her for it. I
think also there's just something about the holiday times, like
throw your cares away. You know, everybody's working together so
(00:53):
we can have some of that holiday magic, which I
know is invisible labor by someone else, but it just
helps us socialize and enjoy one another. And we've talked
about like the art of celebration in a lab before. Yeah,
you know, it's like temporal, so like based on time,
it's like the people you have around you. It really
just puts a lot of people in a very good mood. Well,
(01:16):
we talk about tradition, particularly around the holidays. There is
a holiday carols and there's what I consider to be
like the backdrop of every holiday season for me, and
that is a TV in the living room going with
a Hallmark movie, okay, a Hallmark Christmas movie. Every year
Hallmark drops about forty of these things. Absolutely, absolutely, I
think Brandy is going to be in one with her
(01:39):
daughter this Christmas. Yes, I'm pretty sure Kelly Rowland did one.
It feels like you gotta do one at least once
I'm ready to do. My Christmas movies are the new
like Marvel or superhero movies, Like everybody had to have
a superhero movie. Now everybody has to have a Christmas movie.
And so I was like, there has to be something
to it right, and who's track these movies? And what
(02:00):
are the best ones? We got to get into it,
and so we say, hmm, we know somebody who was
able to take some analytics and some feel good vibes
and put it right with those Christmas movies. And so
I talked to Jenna Golden about the Hallmark movies. Yes,
and Jenna Golden is a woman of many talents, and
so I was so sad I missed this episode, but
(02:21):
I know you got all the goods from Jenna.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I am Jenna Golden, and I don't really know why,
but somehow I decided that I wanted to start watching
all of the Hallmark Christmas movies every year and rating
them on a scale of one to five, as well
as providing a little bit of context and a review
on social media channels. And I started doing it. I
(02:51):
believe it was twenty twenty, which makes sense because we
were all home and there wasn't a whole lot to do,
and there also wasn't a lot of joy in the
world at that time, and it just felt like there
was time to engage on something like that. And I
started watching them and found it slightly more entertaining than
I thought I would actually liked some of them, which
(03:14):
I wasn't sure was going to be the case. And
now here we are, six years later, getting ready to
start the new year and the new cycle of the
twenty twenty five Hallmark Christmas movie season.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Now I love that you've added a rating system, and
I'm like, this may have to do with some of
your other background.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, I think that what happened was when I started
watching the movies and then I started posting about them
on Instagram and on Twitter. I was sort of shocked
how many people secretly replied to me that I've actually
been watching these for years, or I actually secretly really
like these movies, and there's like this underground group of
(03:54):
people who tend to love it. But most people do
not have time to watch four Christmas movies every year,
and I think a lot of people realize that some
of them are good and most of them are eh. Yes.
So I kind of thought, well, if people are only
going to watch two or three of these every season,
(04:16):
if I could kind of create this ever evolving list
that pushed the best ones to the top, then people
could come back when they finally had that moment during
the holidays with their family or free time on Sunday
in front of the fire and say, Okay, if I'm
going to watch one of these, which one is going
to be the best one to watch? And so providing
a rating system helps people to look through and sift
(04:40):
through and figure out, all, right, which one's the best,
so that I'm going to have the best experience when
I decide to actually sit down and watch one of these.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
I like that it feels like you are simplifying the
process of discovery when it comes to holiday movies, and
I think that's one of the things that deters me
when it comes to watching these kind of movies. Some
of them are there's just a few good, and the
rest of them just kind of fall on the uh
iffy end right now. Do you feel like there are
(05:08):
things that you can tell very early on, like are
you able to kind of nail your rating early on
when you first started watching a film.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, I think you've.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Got a good sense for it pretty early on. There's
a few things that I feel like you're always looking for.
And let's be clear, like none of these are all
that unique or creative or like totally outside of the box.
So you pretty much know going in like it's probably
going to get wrapped up in a nice neat boat,
someone's gonna probably fall in love, there's gonna be a
good kiss. So all things being equal, the things generally
(05:41):
are looking for, or I'm looking for in the beginning
that are going to let me like check them off
the list. First is chemistry. Do you feel like the
leads actually are into each other? A lot of times
some of these movies, you honestly feel like they're brother
and sister and you're a little bit like, yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Not feeling that vibe. That's not doing it for me.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
So there's chemistry for me, there's like the cozy feels
and vibes. So am I seeing like cookie baking? Is
there like a snowball fight?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Are we having cocoa? Are we decorating a tree? Are
we sledding? All of these like typical things that make
you feel like it's very seasonal. And then lastly, generally
you're looking for something that isn't overly cheesy and isn't
too silly that you're actually kind of buying it a
little bit and jumping in.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
In that way.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
So oftentimes you can tell some of those things from
the beginning. And I think also to your point that
you mentioned earlier, in addition to their being so many,
so Hallmark alone this year is actually making a change.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So there's actually only.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Twenty four new movies in twenty twenty five, which sounds
like a lot, but there were forty one last year,
and there were forty the year before, So that's just Tallmark,
and I think that they are hopefully moving towards a
quality verse quantity. But then there's Lifetime, then there's Netflix,
(07:10):
there's ABC, So it's not just Hallmark themselves in terms
of the amount that they have really spearheaded and they
have kind of been king of the hill in this area.
But all these new entrants into the space too have
added additional holiday viewing, which sounds great but can be really.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Overwhelming when you're trying to figure out what you want
to watch.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
You know, I think that makes a lot of sense.
I was listening to you say like, I'm looking for
the cozy factor, and immediately there's a little bit of psychology,
you know, stirring around in my head, because I was like, oh, yes,
I think there are certain like sensory elements, Like I'm
thinking about what's happening when we're watching these movies.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
If it's a holiday time, it's already chaotic.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I am trying to figure out which holiday parties I'm
going to how I'm going to tell my nephews that
I'm not buying them gifts this year, you know. But
I think there's often just all of this stuff that's
happening in the background of our own lives, and that
we sometimes are looking for things that feel soothing and calm.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
For me, It's like snow is on the ground, there's
a fire lit somewhere inside, there's cookies in the oven.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Like that just is the perfect winter time experience. So
I love.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
That whole look and feel and it just kind of
like takes you into the season and you don't have
to even celebrate Christmas or be religious to appreciate that
it's still this beautiful season filled with all these traditions
and warmth.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
And I think also your question.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
About you know, or your point about the fact that
like it's a hectic time of year, I mean that
is why people are drawn to these movies. Yeah, no
one's watching these movies for like the complex story lines, right,
no one's expecting anything. Crazy people say over and over again,
I can't believe you watch not just one of those movies,
(09:02):
but forty of those movies. Aren't they all the same?
And the answer is sort of. But honestly, the reason
why people watch them is because they're light, they're easy,
they're low stakes, they're totally uncomplicated, and also like the
world's complicated, and so people just want easy for an
hour and a half, and like Hallmark delivers that times
(09:26):
a thousand.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
When you mentioned the snow scene, I was thinking back
to a childhood Christmas classic for me was home Alone.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I love It's a top five for me. Top five.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
First of all, there was snow on the ground, and
that was so rare growing up in North Carolina. It
was it was like, it's not snowy, you know. So
I was like, oh, I love that. Being home alone
my dream as a kid, making mac.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
And cheese and just sitting by yourself at the table.
Like he doesn't want to do that, right, Yes.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I don't know why it was okay with the burglars
trying to get in, but you know, as time has
gone on, those things have shifted. And when I was
just thinking, like, what's the kind of element that I
really like in holiday movies, I think that it's everybody
coming together for a big dinner or big meal, a
scene that is set around the Christmas meal. It used
(10:35):
to feel like Thanksgiving movies had that kind of thing,
but I think the Christmas meal is very important and
the chaos that goes on in the home around that.
I think one of the things that I hear people
talk about or I spy on people talking about on
threads and on Instagram, and I think this may be shifting,
like the big city character goes to small town, runs
(10:58):
into someone from high school or whatever, and now there's romance.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I think that the real truth is that those are
all absolutely storylines period.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Like I'm not going to lie to you.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
That is one hundred percent a very common trope that
takes place in Christmas movies, not just Hallmark Christmas movies,
but traditionally have been common in Hallmark Christmas movies.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Very often.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
You've got big city girl, you know, boss lady goes
to her hometown, meets old boyfriend who runs a Christmas
tree mill with this family. The business is going to
be sold. What are they going to do? Like that
is the stakes of the situation. In the past, though,
I would say it was almost ninety eight percent of
(11:46):
the time that the big city business woman ends up
leaving her career and leaving the city and moving and
becoming a partner to the Christmas tree farm. Which listen,
if that's your dream, have at it. Nobody is judging
that choice. But I would say in the last five
ish years that has changed, and so we're not always
(12:10):
seeing the same outcome, even if we're seeing some of
the same actions throughout it. Oftentimes more recently, the man
moves to the city, or the woman decides to split
her time, or they come up with like a more
modern take on how this can look. And the real
truth is that Hallmark itself, if you want to go
(12:32):
there like, has gone through a massive shift in the
last five to seven years in terms of leadership, in
terms of diversity. And so I think when you talk
to people at first and you say Hallmark Christmas movies,
there is especially for people like me who live in
a big city and you know, live on a coast,
(12:54):
there is an assumption that these are very traditional, very conservative,
very white movies. And it is one hundred percent true
that for most of Hallmark's existence that was the case,
and in the last five years that has changed a
lot due to a massive shift in leadership. And so
(13:15):
I would say to people who think of the old Hallmark,
it's not that anymore. It is shifting and changing. There's
still work to be done, but there is a lot
moving there.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So if you haven't seen a Hallmark movie since COVID,
I would just say give it another try. Maybe there's
something out there for you. Yeah, we've talked about the
snow and kind of the scene setting what we typically
think of for the holidays. I think so many of
them have in the past led with like a romantic
interest for these holiday movies. But we're also seeing the
(13:47):
rise of a broadcast of characters very much where you're
not leaning on just you know, two people. I'm curious,
you know, when we look at all these elements, particularly
as we see the shift from romance to the broadcast,
you think that's positive. What's your take on that as
a reviewer of so many of these films.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, I think you're exactly right. That has been a
huge shift in the last few years. On Hallmark in particular,
it was always a story of a man and a
woman and waiting for the kiss at the end.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And for those who have.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Not watched older Hallmark movies, the kiss always happened in
the last one minute of the movie until the last
five to six years, so very chaste, waiting till the
end and then you get the kiss and then credits
roll and it is done. What we've seen in the
last few years is so many stories that are around
(14:44):
sisters as the main storyline of love, you know, through
working through their familial relationships, best friends, large families that
are dealing with multi generations, and so I would say
Hallmark made a very large shift that maybe even twenty
(15:04):
percent of the movies aren't just focused solely on this
one romantic connection, and I think it's positive. I think
that love is happens in many different ways, and romantic
love is one way, but there's all other types of love,
whether it's friendship or siblings or other different types of relationships,
(15:26):
and I think that it gets boring watching the same
exact relationship over and over.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
And over again.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
So I welcome the fact that we can explore all
different types of relationships and enjoy them just as much
as the others. And I also really love a love story,
so you know, I like it all. But I think
that always relying on the exact same formula, especially in
today's age, where people live very different types of lives
(15:54):
and there's so many different ways to live, I think
it's nice to highlight different And then also to your point,
there have been a lot of movies in the last
few years that have been kind of like these gigantic casts.
So twenty people and it's busy and crazy and everyone's
running around, and fifteen people came in for the holiday
(16:15):
and they all rented out a hotel or whatever that
might be. And so it's like these ensemble casts of
all these different stars together and that's also fun. It
breaks up the monotony of the same story over and
over again.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
You have helped us kind of think about some of
the shifts. I think it's easy to rely on, you know,
a first experience you had with Hallmark, like Hallmark and
Lifetime movies being on in the background is something I
am very familiar with and think about when I think
about the holiday season. But I have to be honest,
I haven't given them another shot. I see your reviews,
(17:04):
but I haven't given them another shot. And so for
someone who is saying, okay, Jenna, we hear you, we
hear that there's some changes, we should give it another shot.
What's on your mount Rushmore? Who's your list of you know,
your list of movies you think people should check out.
They can be Hallmark or if you want to bring
in some of the competitors, if you have some Netflix, Lifetime,
Hulu recommendations, We're open to those two.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Okay, Well, first of all, I would say, you know,
all of these places, whether it's Hallmark or Hulu, or
whatever have apps and descriptions and so like, definitely do
a little bit of research beforehand, because again, what you
don't want to happen is you decide to like cozy
up for that first holiday movie of the year and
(17:48):
it's like the only day that you have and you're
so excited to like put on the pajamas and sit
by the fire and do the thing. Yeah, and then
you watch like the total dud and you're like, oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Did I even bother right?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Yeah, So I would definitely, you know, do your best
to kind of look around. For me, I would say
there are also specific actors and actresses that I like
regularly am super drawn to and do an amazing so
on Hallmark. For me, Ashley Williams, they are some of
the queens of Hallmark that have been there for years
(18:22):
and years that really do a wonderful job of acting
and they really pull you in and they could balance
the emotional with the funny. So for me, I'm kind
of gravitating towards some of them. I would say for
Hallmark last year there was a really really fun new
(18:43):
partnership that they did with the Kansas City Chiefs. So
for those of you who like sports but also want
to watch a Hallmark Christmas movie. They did this crossover.
They're they're doing another one this year. Okay, so last
year's was Holiday Touchdown, A Chief's Love Story, and this
(19:03):
year is going to be a Holiday Touchdown a Bill's
Love Story. And the one last year was just really fun.
It was about a family that loved sports, loved football.
It ran through all the generations, and there's a love story,
but there's the family component, but there's the sports, and
I think it was just like really different than anything
(19:24):
they'd ever done, and I think it appeals to a
very wide swath of people, not just females.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Lots of people that might.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Be interested if you're cooking or you're at home and
people can kind of watch in the background. So I
would recommend checking out one of those because they tend to.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Be really appealing and fun.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Another one that's been really popular in the last few
years was there's now been I think three or four
of them, but the first one, I believe was Three
Wise Men and a Baby and they took like three
of the Hallmark hunks that have been around for years
that are brothers and they end up with a baby
for a long weekend, and it's you know, the brothers,
(20:06):
it's the family, it's the baby. It's funny, it's romantic,
it's all the things. And it's obviously a riff on
a movie from our childhood, which was Three Men and
a Baby, So.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
That's a fun one.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
It is quite surprising how many secret Hallmark movie watchers
are out there that you don't know that will slide
into my dms. People like very sophisticated conservative men, like
people you just would not expect.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
But there is something kind of universal.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
About that warm Christmas movie in the background that everybody
just kind of craves when it gets cold out. And
so people I think are becoming more and more comfortable
with coming out with it because it's become cooler to
like like this stuff. But I would say, also, there's
so many people who will tell me, Okay, I don't
(20:59):
necessarily love the movies, but like my mom and my
grandma watched these when I was growing up, and like
that's really special to me, and so I associate with that.
So I think so many people have like a generational
pull to it because so many moms, grandma's aunts spent
a lot of time watching these movies.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, another holiday tradition. T T. I gotta make sure
I watch the Hallmark movies this year because I think
I had been sleeping on them. Yeah. I feel like
lots of people sleep on them. And I am the
type of person that, like, you know, I'm scrolling on
(21:37):
TV and trying to find something to watch, and I'll
see Hallmark has hours and hours and hours.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Of movies just back to back.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
And it's not just Hallmark. Yeah, Brandy, she has a
Lifetime movie that is coming out and it's a Christmas
movie and it's called Christmas every Day. And I'm definitely
gonna be watching that. So, you know, all these Christmas movies,
they may feel a little cheesy, but you know, I
think they're sweet and they're starting to change. So there's
a little bit of something for everybody out there now,
not just waiting for the build up to the single kiss.
(22:08):
Tell us what you're watching this holiday season? Mm hm
ooh you remember This Christmas? Yes, the one that had
Chris Brown in it. My friend went to trivia and
somebody said Chris Brown's version of This Christmas was better
than Donnie Hathaway's version. Yeah, we have got to be
more serious as a people. This is very unserious times
and we have got to be more serious. I want
(22:30):
to hear everybody's holiday fads, all your hot takes. What's
your favorite holiday movie? Is a Hallmark? Is it not?
Tell me why all of it? Yeah? My brother in
law said Mariah Carey can't sing? Is he?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Well?
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Clearly no, he needs help. You can find us on
X and Instagram at Dope Labs. Podcast ct is on
X and Instagram at d R Underscore t Sho, and
you can find Zakiya at Ze said so. Dope Labs
(23:03):
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(23:24):
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Dope Labs is executive produced by us T T Show
Dia and Zakiyah Watkia,
I'm t T and I'm Zakiah, and this is Dope Labs.
Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore
science with pop culture and a healthy.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Dose of friendship.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
T T. This lab is gonna be a fun one today.
I already know it is because wine. It ties in
a few of my favorite things.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
A few of your favorite things. Tell us?
Speaker 1 (00:32):
What are they? So the holiday season? I think it's
just a nice time of year. You know, the radio
stations are playing all the Christmas carols. Mariah Carey back
on her bullshit and I love her for it. I
think also there's just something about the holiday times, like
throw your cares away. You know, everybody's working together so
(00:53):
we can have some of that holiday magic, which I
know is invisible labor by someone else, but it just
helps us socialize and enjoy one another. And we've talked
about like the art of celebration in a lab before. Yeah,
you know, it's like temporal, so like based on time,
it's like the people you have around you. It really
just puts a lot of people in a very good mood. Well,
(01:16):
we talk about tradition, particularly around the holidays. There is
a holiday carols and there's what I consider to be
like the backdrop of every holiday season for me, and
that is a TV in the living room going with
a Hallmark movie, okay, a Hallmark Christmas movie. Every year
Hallmark drops about forty of these things. Absolutely, absolutely, I
think Brandy is going to be in one with her
(01:39):
daughter this Christmas. Yes, I'm pretty sure Kelly Rowland did one.
It feels like you gotta do one at least once
I'm ready to do. My Christmas movies are the new
like Marvel or superhero movies, Like everybody had to have
a superhero movie. Now everybody has to have a Christmas movie.
And so I was like, there has to be something
to it right, and who's track these movies? And what
(02:00):
are the best ones? We got to get into it,
and so we say, hmm, we know somebody who was
able to take some analytics and some feel good vibes
and put it right with those Christmas movies. And so
I talked to Jenna Golden about the Hallmark movies. Yes,
and Jenna Golden is a woman of many talents, and
so I was so sad I missed this episode, but
(02:21):
I know you got all the goods from Jenna.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
I am Jenna Golden, and I don't really know why,
but somehow I decided that I wanted to start watching
all of the Hallmark Christmas movies every year and rating
them on a scale of one to five, as well
as providing a little bit of context and a review
on social media channels. And I started doing it. I
(02:51):
believe it was twenty twenty, which makes sense because we
were all home and there wasn't a whole lot to do,
and there also wasn't a lot of joy in the
world at that time, and it just felt like there
was time to engage on something like that. And I
started watching them and found it slightly more entertaining than
I thought I would actually liked some of them, which
(03:14):
I wasn't sure was going to be the case. And
now here we are, six years later, getting ready to
start the new year and the new cycle of the
twenty twenty five Hallmark Christmas movie season.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Now I love that you've added a rating system, and
I'm like, this may have to do with some of
your other background.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yeah, I think that what happened was when I started
watching the movies and then I started posting about them
on Instagram and on Twitter. I was sort of shocked
how many people secretly replied to me that I've actually
been watching these for years, or I actually secretly really
like these movies, and there's like this underground group of
(03:54):
people who tend to love it. But most people do
not have time to watch four Christmas movies every year,
and I think a lot of people realize that some
of them are good and most of them are eh. Yes.
So I kind of thought, well, if people are only
going to watch two or three of these every season,
(04:16):
if I could kind of create this ever evolving list
that pushed the best ones to the top, then people
could come back when they finally had that moment during
the holidays with their family or free time on Sunday
in front of the fire and say, Okay, if I'm
going to watch one of these, which one is going
to be the best one to watch? And so providing
a rating system helps people to look through and sift
(04:40):
through and figure out, all, right, which one's the best,
so that I'm going to have the best experience when
I decide to actually sit down and watch one of these.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
I like that it feels like you are simplifying the
process of discovery when it comes to holiday movies, and
I think that's one of the things that deters me
when it comes to watching these kind of movies. Some
of them are there's just a few good, and the
rest of them just kind of fall on the uh
iffy end right now. Do you feel like there are
(05:08):
things that you can tell very early on, like are
you able to kind of nail your rating early on
when you first started watching a film.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah, I think you've.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
Got a good sense for it pretty early on. There's
a few things that I feel like you're always looking for.
And let's be clear, like none of these are all
that unique or creative or like totally outside of the box.
So you pretty much know going in like it's probably
going to get wrapped up in a nice neat boat,
someone's gonna probably fall in love, there's gonna be a
good kiss. So all things being equal, the things generally
(05:41):
are looking for, or I'm looking for in the beginning
that are going to let me like check them off
the list. First is chemistry. Do you feel like the
leads actually are into each other? A lot of times
some of these movies, you honestly feel like they're brother
and sister and you're a little bit like, yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Not feeling that vibe. That's not doing it for me.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
So there's chemistry for me, there's like the cozy feels
and vibes. So am I seeing like cookie baking? Is
there like a snowball fight?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Are we having cocoa? Are we decorating a tree? Are
we sledding? All of these like typical things that make
you feel like it's very seasonal. And then lastly, generally
you're looking for something that isn't overly cheesy and isn't
too silly that you're actually kind of buying it a
little bit and jumping in.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
In that way.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
So oftentimes you can tell some of those things from
the beginning. And I think also to your point that
you mentioned earlier, in addition to their being so many,
so Hallmark alone this year is actually making a change.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
So there's actually only.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Twenty four new movies in twenty twenty five, which sounds
like a lot, but there were forty one last year,
and there were forty the year before, So that's just Tallmark,
and I think that they are hopefully moving towards a
quality verse quantity. But then there's Lifetime, then there's Netflix,
(07:10):
there's ABC, So it's not just Hallmark themselves in terms
of the amount that they have really spearheaded and they
have kind of been king of the hill in this area.
But all these new entrants into the space too have
added additional holiday viewing, which sounds great but can be really.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
Overwhelming when you're trying to figure out what you want
to watch.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
You know, I think that makes a lot of sense.
I was listening to you say like, I'm looking for
the cozy factor, and immediately there's a little bit of psychology,
you know, stirring around in my head, because I was like, oh, yes,
I think there are certain like sensory elements, Like I'm
thinking about what's happening when we're watching these movies.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
If it's a holiday time, it's already chaotic.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
I am trying to figure out which holiday parties I'm
going to how I'm going to tell my nephews that
I'm not buying them gifts this year, you know. But
I think there's often just all of this stuff that's
happening in the background of our own lives, and that
we sometimes are looking for things that feel soothing and calm.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
For me, It's like snow is on the ground, there's
a fire lit somewhere inside, there's cookies in the oven.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Like that just is the perfect winter time experience. So
I love.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
That whole look and feel and it just kind of
like takes you into the season and you don't have
to even celebrate Christmas or be religious to appreciate that
it's still this beautiful season filled with all these traditions
and warmth.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
And I think also your question.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
About you know, or your point about the fact that
like it's a hectic time of year, I mean that
is why people are drawn to these movies. Yeah, no
one's watching these movies for like the complex story lines, right,
no one's expecting anything. Crazy people say over and over again,
I can't believe you watch not just one of those movies,
(09:02):
but forty of those movies. Aren't they all the same?
And the answer is sort of. But honestly, the reason
why people watch them is because they're light, they're easy,
they're low stakes, they're totally uncomplicated, and also like the
world's complicated, and so people just want easy for an
hour and a half, and like Hallmark delivers that times
(09:26):
a thousand.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
When you mentioned the snow scene, I was thinking back
to a childhood Christmas classic for me was home Alone.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
I love It's a top five for me. Top five.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
First of all, there was snow on the ground, and
that was so rare growing up in North Carolina. It
was it was like, it's not snowy, you know. So
I was like, oh, I love that. Being home alone
my dream as a kid, making mac.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
And cheese and just sitting by yourself at the table.
Like he doesn't want to do that, right, Yes.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
I don't know why it was okay with the burglars
trying to get in, but you know, as time has
gone on, those things have shifted. And when I was
just thinking, like, what's the kind of element that I
really like in holiday movies, I think that it's everybody
coming together for a big dinner or big meal, a
scene that is set around the Christmas meal. It used
(10:35):
to feel like Thanksgiving movies had that kind of thing,
but I think the Christmas meal is very important and
the chaos that goes on in the home around that.
I think one of the things that I hear people
talk about or I spy on people talking about on
threads and on Instagram, and I think this may be shifting,
like the big city character goes to small town, runs
(10:58):
into someone from high school or whatever, and now there's romance.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
I think that the real truth is that those are
all absolutely storylines period.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Like I'm not going to lie to you.
Speaker 3 (11:12):
That is one hundred percent a very common trope that
takes place in Christmas movies, not just Hallmark Christmas movies,
but traditionally have been common in Hallmark Christmas movies.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Very often.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
You've got big city girl, you know, boss lady goes
to her hometown, meets old boyfriend who runs a Christmas
tree mill with this family. The business is going to
be sold. What are they going to do? Like that
is the stakes of the situation. In the past, though,
I would say it was almost ninety eight percent of
(11:46):
the time that the big city business woman ends up
leaving her career and leaving the city and moving and
becoming a partner to the Christmas tree farm. Which listen,
if that's your dream, have at it. Nobody is judging
that choice. But I would say in the last five
ish years that has changed, and so we're not always
(12:10):
seeing the same outcome, even if we're seeing some of
the same actions throughout it. Oftentimes more recently, the man
moves to the city, or the woman decides to split
her time, or they come up with like a more
modern take on how this can look. And the real
truth is that Hallmark itself, if you want to go
(12:32):
there like, has gone through a massive shift in the
last five to seven years in terms of leadership, in
terms of diversity. And so I think when you talk
to people at first and you say Hallmark Christmas movies,
there is especially for people like me who live in
a big city and you know, live on a coast,
(12:54):
there is an assumption that these are very traditional, very conservative,
very white movies. And it is one hundred percent true
that for most of Hallmark's existence that was the case,
and in the last five years that has changed a
lot due to a massive shift in leadership. And so
(13:15):
I would say to people who think of the old Hallmark,
it's not that anymore. It is shifting and changing. There's
still work to be done, but there is a lot
moving there.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
So if you haven't seen a Hallmark movie since COVID,
I would just say give it another try. Maybe there's
something out there for you. Yeah, we've talked about the
snow and kind of the scene setting what we typically
think of for the holidays. I think so many of
them have in the past led with like a romantic
interest for these holiday movies. But we're also seeing the
(13:47):
rise of a broadcast of characters very much where you're
not leaning on just you know, two people. I'm curious,
you know, when we look at all these elements, particularly
as we see the shift from romance to the broadcast,
you think that's positive. What's your take on that as
a reviewer of so many of these films.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, I think you're exactly right. That has been a
huge shift in the last few years. On Hallmark in particular,
it was always a story of a man and a
woman and waiting for the kiss at the end.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
And for those who have.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Not watched older Hallmark movies, the kiss always happened in
the last one minute of the movie until the last
five to six years, so very chaste, waiting till the
end and then you get the kiss and then credits
roll and it is done. What we've seen in the
last few years is so many stories that are around
(14:44):
sisters as the main storyline of love, you know, through
working through their familial relationships, best friends, large families that
are dealing with multi generations, and so I would say
Hallmark made a very large shift that maybe even twenty
(15:04):
percent of the movies aren't just focused solely on this
one romantic connection, and I think it's positive. I think
that love is happens in many different ways, and romantic
love is one way, but there's all other types of love,
whether it's friendship or siblings or other different types of relationships,
(15:26):
and I think that it gets boring watching the same
exact relationship over and over.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
And over again.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
So I welcome the fact that we can explore all
different types of relationships and enjoy them just as much
as the others. And I also really love a love story,
so you know, I like it all. But I think
that always relying on the exact same formula, especially in
today's age, where people live very different types of lives
(15:54):
and there's so many different ways to live, I think
it's nice to highlight different And then also to your point,
there have been a lot of movies in the last
few years that have been kind of like these gigantic casts.
So twenty people and it's busy and crazy and everyone's
running around, and fifteen people came in for the holiday
(16:15):
and they all rented out a hotel or whatever that
might be. And so it's like these ensemble casts of
all these different stars together and that's also fun. It
breaks up the monotony of the same story over and
over again.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
You have helped us kind of think about some of
the shifts. I think it's easy to rely on, you know,
a first experience you had with Hallmark, like Hallmark and
Lifetime movies being on in the background is something I
am very familiar with and think about when I think
about the holiday season. But I have to be honest,
I haven't given them another shot. I see your reviews,
(17:04):
but I haven't given them another shot. And so for
someone who is saying, okay, Jenna, we hear you, we
hear that there's some changes, we should give it another shot.
What's on your mount Rushmore? Who's your list of you know,
your list of movies you think people should check out.
They can be Hallmark or if you want to bring
in some of the competitors, if you have some Netflix, Lifetime,
Hulu recommendations, We're open to those two.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Okay, Well, first of all, I would say, you know,
all of these places, whether it's Hallmark or Hulu, or
whatever have apps and descriptions and so like, definitely do
a little bit of research beforehand, because again, what you
don't want to happen is you decide to like cozy
up for that first holiday movie of the year and
(17:48):
it's like the only day that you have and you're
so excited to like put on the pajamas and sit
by the fire and do the thing. Yeah, and then
you watch like the total dud and you're like, oh, wow.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Did I even bother right?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Yeah, So I would definitely, you know, do your best
to kind of look around. For me, I would say
there are also specific actors and actresses that I like
regularly am super drawn to and do an amazing so
on Hallmark. For me, Ashley Williams, they are some of
the queens of Hallmark that have been there for years
(18:22):
and years that really do a wonderful job of acting
and they really pull you in and they could balance
the emotional with the funny. So for me, I'm kind
of gravitating towards some of them. I would say for
Hallmark last year there was a really really fun new
(18:43):
partnership that they did with the Kansas City Chiefs. So
for those of you who like sports but also want
to watch a Hallmark Christmas movie. They did this crossover.
They're they're doing another one this year. Okay, so last
year's was Holiday Touchdown, A Chief's Love Story, and this
(19:03):
year is going to be a Holiday Touchdown a Bill's
Love Story. And the one last year was just really fun.
It was about a family that loved sports, loved football.
It ran through all the generations, and there's a love story,
but there's the family component, but there's the sports, and
I think it was just like really different than anything
(19:24):
they'd ever done, and I think it appeals to a
very wide swath of people, not just females.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Lots of people that might.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Be interested if you're cooking or you're at home and
people can kind of watch in the background. So I
would recommend checking out one of those because they tend to.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Be really appealing and fun.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Another one that's been really popular in the last few
years was there's now been I think three or four
of them, but the first one, I believe was Three
Wise Men and a Baby and they took like three
of the Hallmark hunks that have been around for years
that are brothers and they end up with a baby
for a long weekend, and it's you know, the brothers,
(20:06):
it's the family, it's the baby. It's funny, it's romantic,
it's all the things. And it's obviously a riff on
a movie from our childhood, which was Three Men and
a Baby, So.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
That's a fun one.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
It is quite surprising how many secret Hallmark movie watchers
are out there that you don't know that will slide
into my dms. People like very sophisticated conservative men, like
people you just would not expect.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
But there is something kind of universal.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
About that warm Christmas movie in the background that everybody
just kind of craves when it gets cold out. And
so people I think are becoming more and more comfortable
with coming out with it because it's become cooler to
like like this stuff. But I would say, also, there's
so many people who will tell me, Okay, I don't
(20:59):
necessarily love the movies, but like my mom and my
grandma watched these when I was growing up, and like
that's really special to me, and so I associate with that.
So I think so many people have like a generational
pull to it because so many moms, grandma's aunts spent
a lot of time watching these movies.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, another holiday tradition. T T. I gotta make sure
I watch the Hallmark movies this year because I think
I had been sleeping on them. Yeah. I feel like
lots of people sleep on them. And I am the
type of person that, like, you know, I'm scrolling on
(21:37):
TV and trying to find something to watch, and I'll
see Hallmark has hours and hours and hours.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Of movies just back to back.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
And it's not just Hallmark. Yeah, Brandy, she has a
Lifetime movie that is coming out and it's a Christmas
movie and it's called Christmas every Day. And I'm definitely
gonna be watching that. So, you know, all these Christmas movies,
they may feel a little cheesy, but you know, I
think they're sweet and they're starting to change. So there's
a little bit of something for everybody out there now,
not just waiting for the build up to the single kiss.
(22:08):
Tell us what you're watching this holiday season? Mm hm
ooh you remember This Christmas? Yes, the one that had
Chris Brown in it. My friend went to trivia and
somebody said Chris Brown's version of This Christmas was better
than Donnie Hathaway's version. Yeah, we have got to be
more serious as a people. This is very unserious times
and we have got to be more serious. I want
(22:30):
to hear everybody's holiday fads, all your hot takes. What's
your favorite holiday movie? Is a Hallmark? Is it not?
Tell me why all of it? Yeah? My brother in
law said Mariah Carey can't sing? Is he?
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Well?
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Clearly no, he needs help. You can find us on
X and Instagram at Dope Labs. Podcast ct is on
X and Instagram at d R Underscore t Sho, and
you can find Zakiya at Ze said so. Dope Labs
(23:03):
is a production of Lemonada Media. Our supervising producer is
Keegan Zimma and our producer is Issara Acevez. Dope Labs
is sound designed, edited and mixed by James farber Lamanada
Media's Vice President of Partnerships and Production is Jackie Dansinger.
Executive producer from iHeart podcast is Katrina Norvil. Marketing lead
(23:24):
is Alison Canter. Original music composed and produced by Taka
Yasuzawa and Alex sugi Ura, with additional music by Elijah Harvey.
Dope Labs is executive produced by us T T Show
Dia and Zakiyah Watkia,
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