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June 17, 2024 47 mins

It may have been a season finale, but this episode had the feel of a series finale. There’s so much to unpack and emotions run high as the girls delve into Whitey and Dan, the long term real-life effect of Victoria’s apology and the weight of Hilarie and Chad’s last performances. 

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
First of all, you don't know me well.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
All about that high school drama, Girl Drama, Girl, all
about them high school Queens will take you for a ride,
and our comic girl sharing for the Righteen Drama Queens,
Jamie's my girl girl Fashion, but your tough girl.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
You could sit with us Girl Drama, Queens Drama, Queens Drama,
Queens Drama, drahn MC Queens Drama Queens.

Speaker 4 (00:26):
Well, Hillary, you want to bring us in?

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Oh my god, yes, guys. It is episode twenty four
of season six, Remember Me as a Time of Day
Air date May eighteenth, two thousand and nine. Uh, Nathan, Nathan.
I just loved Haley and Nathan. This episode, he is

released from the Chiefs and is forced to face Haley
and Jamie. That's a that's a that's a bit miss Yeah.
On the eve of Peyton's delivery, Lucas and Peyton receive
us prize visit from Karen. This synopsis is wrote this
too short. This synopsis doesn't want you to know any spoilers,

but we're gonna give them to you anyway.

Speaker 5 (01:10):
I'm like, shouldn't they say the night of Peyton and
Lucas's wedding not the eve of her delivery. What like
it was planned?

Speaker 4 (01:20):
Yeah, the uh, the imminent delivery.

Speaker 1 (01:24):
It's a really dark teaser emergency delivery. Yeah, big episode,
but big episode for everybody. I thought like this felt
like a two hour special. It really did.

Speaker 4 (01:36):
Yeah, every single character got a wrap up, including people
we haven't seen in a long time. Yeah, no, am
I wrong? You're like, well, you're like, you're nod in
your head, what do you mean?

Speaker 5 (01:49):
No, I agree.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
Yeah, there were people that didn't get wrapped up. Did
I miss anybody?

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Well, we didn't see skills. Oh, shoot, that's it. Yes,
he got kind of a nice wrap up in the
last episode with Miss Lauren, like we knew that they
were on a path. Yeah, this kind of set out
the future of the show, knowing that everyone's on their
path and everyone seems partnered up in a really healthy,
happy way, and that is a feel good thing. I

know that a lot of fans have said this felt
like a series finale instead of a season finale, and
it really I hadn't thought of it that way.

Speaker 4 (02:24):
It was not on purpose.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
We knew we were coming back, and it aren't even
announcedream were coming back that one season. We didn't need
a season finale or a series finale was the one
we got one.

Speaker 5 (02:35):
It almost felt like they'd written this, like they'd decided
what the end of the show was going to be. Yeah,
and then in six twenty one when we got the
pick up, they were like, well, it's honestly a really
good script, so.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Still a good episode.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
Just leave it alone, you know, the same thing I
was thinking. Absolutely, But it worked. I loved that, and
also it gave it as a place to I mean,
we did it the first time after for years to
come back. There was a wrap up, and then we
came back not quite knowing what to expect in the
next new phase of these characters' lives, and so especially

knowing that you and Chad were leaving, I think they
had to do something that was going to give viewers
a sense of closure and feeling like this whole chapter
is wrapped up, So we're going to start something new,
but it has to be able to feel new without
all these lingering issues.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Well, sometimes when a show has been on as long
as ours was, no cliffhanger is a cliffhanger, right, People
are so used to like, is Dan Scott dead? Who
lit the fire? You know, people are so used to
being teased in that way that when there's no teas
it makes you suspicious. You're like, when's the other shoe

get a job? Yeah, everybody's too, what's going on? It's
all been a dream? Everyone's dead. Dan Scott had a point.
This is hell, Oh Dan Scott even he got closure
with Whitey. What a romance there.

Speaker 4 (04:14):
I ah not expecting that circle moment. So much about
this episode that I completely forgot no recollection of this
so much, I have so many notes.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
I vividly remember the very first thing we see when
Chad carried me into the hospital and that shot kisses
Peyton's arm. It happens in a blink, and I had
completely like forgotten about it until I watched it in
the episode and just had the muscle memory of Chad
doing that and being I couldn't react because I'm like comatose, right,

but being so choked up that his immediate reaction was
to kiss anybody part of mine that he could reach
because it might be the last time he gets to
do that. Like that's still I'm still choked up, Like
it was such a it was a good instinct for him,
and I don't know if people even clock it, but

yeah I did, because it's also a weird thing when
someone kisses you like close to your armpit. It's not
like a natural not a natural spot. But I thought
it was such a sincere gesture. I liked it.

Speaker 4 (05:23):
Yeah, when Chad shows up, he shows up, and he
showed up in this episode. His performance was really beautiful.

Speaker 5 (05:30):
It's it's also so interesting to realize how much, to
your point, some of the stuff from this episode stuck.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
With all of us.

Speaker 5 (05:39):
Like when we were watching six twenty three, I was like, well,
where's the shot of you bleeding in the drag? Like
I've never seen it? How dare they edit this for streaming?
And then I was like, oh, there it is. Wow,
that's really burned into my brain in a way, Like
there's so many things that that stick. And I think
it is to your point, it's because people really showed

up and because they wrote this. Sure, it's kind of
a wrap up, but it's like, really it's emotional wish
fulfillment and you've wanted these people to have their dreams
come true for six years. And I mean I cried
through the entire episode. Yeah, and I thought I just
thought every single thing worked like from War Sweater being

the first song with that haunting like violin string and
just all of it, like it starts in this really emotional,
terrifying place and then as everything begins to grow happier
and you see this payoff, like I don't know, it

flowed in a way. The whole episode felt like music
to me. It was really special to watch it again.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
It was a lot of montage, you know, the montage
at the beginning where we're seeing everyone in places of
loneliness or peril or darkness. That is a different way
to start an episode. Hold on and I just everything

was working for me until they go to gas Peyton
and she opens her eyes and it turned into a
horror movie where it fell like the Twilight Zone. They
were like coming to me with the mask and hooking
on my arms and shit, and that was It was
not a fun day at work, but it was funny
to watch because it just went from being like everyone's sad,

try Hill, We're all really emo, to wait a second,
is this a horror movie? Like what's so funny?

Speaker 4 (07:40):
Eat Hillary Mine. I have in my notes what a
great moment that was for you. The because it's so
easy to overact and make it feel like a horror
movie where your eyes go wide.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
And you're like, oh, all these things are coming to me.

Speaker 4 (07:55):
And the camera's shot that the doctor's hands coming out
your face and all that. It's a very it was
a very horror movie shot. But because of the expression
on your face, because you didn't overact, you were completely
there still and all you did was look around with
this innocent like days, it was really good because you

could have overacted it. I mean anybody could have just
you know, open up your eyes wide and look scared.
That's easy to do. But you didn't, and so I
bought it, and it's in my notes. I was like,
that was a really well done moment for.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
You, guys. How do we feel about the O R
viewing room?

Speaker 5 (08:33):
In my notes in all caps, they would never allow
him in the operating gallery.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
They would never let us watch you have a C section, guys.
I said this on set that day. Yeah, we all
were like what are we doing?

Speaker 5 (08:47):
And they didn't care. They were like, it's emotional. We
were like sure, or it's gonna be the thing that
ruins the emotion because everyone watching the show is going
to be like, well, that's fucking stupid.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
I have never been to a hospital at all with
like a I don't know it's operating Galla orange? Yeah,
is that the green room up there? Is that just snack? Well?

Speaker 4 (09:09):
What made it even funnier was that they cut the
glass out. Do you remember that they had the glass
up and they got us all in there, and they
tried forever to get the setup right so that they
could get all of us in the shot and not
have reflections of the camera, and finally they were just like,
pull the glass out, and then we were really like, oh,
come on, you can just see straight through it.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Lucas's hands were you guys, It's like Evita for me.
I I enjoyed that. I mean it was funny and
totally unbelievable. But also, you know in tree Hill, anytime

something bad happens to you, there has to be an audience,
and I you know, everybody else gets hurt on a
basketball court or out on the street in front of everybody,
Payne just gets hurt in her house. So we had
to invite the audience in. We had to bring everybody
to her. But we shot the episode totally backwards, so
that actually was the last thing we shot, and we

shot all the happy ship first.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Oh that's why you were saying you were covered in
blood on your last day.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Oh yeah, I mean we shot all the happy stuff first.
So the day that we drove off into the sunset
was what we shot first. Oh, a motorcycle gang just
drove by. Oh hello boys. It's all like seventy year
old dudes. So we were out on the street and

there's like a viral video that's going around on Instagram
right now of Chad talking to fans and they're all like,
are you coming back next year and he's like, no,
they don't want me back. They're not going to pay me.
And it was from that day because we were out
on the street and there's this huge crowd and they're like, Chad,
we love Lucas, blah blah. And that surreal moment of
my character's beloved, I've done my job, I've shown up,

and this like you know, this mess is still happening
was very weird. And so Chad made that comment and
I don't know that he knew a fan was getting
it on camera. But then then we were in trouble
for spoiling the end of the show. I mean it
was just a comedy of errors. But the baby smiled

and everyone knew that was magic. So we only had
to do it like two times because they were like,
well we got it that shot again. Yeah, yeah, Yeah.
It was a weird. It was just a weird experience.

Speaker 5 (11:39):
Well, it was also like sort of surreal to me
because the song over the end is can't you See
And in the moment where you guys drive away and
it goes up into that big beautiful crane shot, the
lyric that plays over the car beginning to move is
Ain't Never coming back?

Speaker 1 (11:59):
And I was like, I didn't catch that. It like it.

Speaker 5 (12:04):
It made me jump when I heard it, and I
was like, that feels really surreal that that was the
moment of the sink And I was like, was that
on purpose? Did that just happen? I don't know, it was.
It was bizarre. So to hear that not only the
scene feels bizarre to watch, but that it was so

bizarre irl is interesting.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Well, and for people at home, our boss wrote and
directed this episode, so for all of the trauma of
the latter, it was like two months of weirdness at
the end there then like your grand finale, your final
exit is with the person who was at the epicenter
of just making this awful. There was no getting around it,
and so maybe that's why I'm kind of I've got

some gallows humor about it, because that was the only
way to function, just like, okay, cool, kill me, now
kill me. It'll be fine. I'm gonna be great. I
felt like Dan Scott in the episode, honestly, yea, and
Dan is so great in this because it's just like,
I don't know where this went sideways. I'm gonna I'll

try to go all the way back. I'll try to
look as far back as humanly possible to see where
I'm at fault here. And yeah, I liked that we
got to see Whitey again.

Speaker 5 (13:27):
I loved that moment.

Speaker 4 (13:29):
I needed that visual break from Tree Hill to go
out on a ranch, a random ranch house somewhere and
see Mary walking around to the horse in the wood
paneled home and old vintage couch fabric. There was something
about that that was a really nice break that helped

me continue to feel the flow of everybody else's storylines
rather than it feeling all blending into one. I was
so surprised to see Whitey did not remember that Dan
goes back to him.

Speaker 5 (14:02):
I didn't either. I thought it was such a cool
choice though, Oh so great.

Speaker 4 (14:08):
Yeah, And like you're saying, Hillary, going all the way
back to the beginning, He's like, what's the moment that
it had to have been before then? In real life? Obviously,
in real life, in the real life park of Dan
and whatever, you know, like it had real life and yeah,
dance made up for life. It had to actually go
back further than that. But the moment where he says

he's talking about everybody having these new moments in their life,
and he says, and I don't get to feel those moments.
It really struck me about how somebody grows into a
place where you can't. It's not that people are cutting
you out of feeling those moments. I mean they are,
but also you're incapable even if they let you in.

You can't allow yourself to feel it because of all
the things that you've done in your life to lead
you that place. And Whitey comes in with this line
and you created that Danny, Oh got me.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
That was a weird line to me though, because he's
just spent all this quality time with Jamie and so
I didn't understand if he was saying, I don't feel
anything when I get to experience that because Haley and
Nathan have let him in, they have let him be
with Jamie. He has spent a huge part of that
kid's life, and I was like it was a weird
thing to kind of minimize that, considering how important it

has been to Dan. Dan's also kind of grandiose, though,
and when he's feeling sorry for himself everything's wrong, when
really he still has a beautiful beach house like you, Dan.

Speaker 4 (15:42):
You know, I think it's true that he has trouble
feeling it like I think he wants to. But it
makes sense to me that he would even have access
to some of these things, like a relationship with his
grandson and still feel like I can't feel what I'm
supposed to feel here because I'm blocked because I don't

believe I deserve it because I've done all these shitty things.
People are complex, and I.

Speaker 5 (16:08):
Think there's something interesting too about particularly when you think
about what he says to Peyton when he says, she's
the only one in my life who doesn't know what
I've done, because now even Jamie knows. And I wonder
if for him. What he's trying to acknowledge and you

know what the writers didn't say, but it is that maybe,
like being with Jamie is hard because he gets just
a touch, like just a taste. He gets to hold
Sawyer for just a moment before you take her back,
and I could see how much it affected you to
see him with her. And I wonder if what he's

trying to say is that no matter what he knows,
he's on the outside.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Yeah. Boys, his sons won't talk.

Speaker 5 (17:02):
To him, like maybe the kid will, but nobody really
lets him in their adult lives.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
In a meaningful way.

Speaker 5 (17:09):
Yeah, and you know, Nathan walking around him to go
be with Whitey, all of it. It's such an interesting
thing because hell for Dan Scott is accountability. Yeah, he's
on the outside because he's being held accountable for his
actions and it is so painful for him.

Speaker 1 (17:32):
Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 4 (17:32):
It's like that's what shame does. It stops you from
being able to really enjoy the good things because it's
just you have to kind of cut yourself off from
it because the stakes are too high. You built up
too much, so you either have to double down or
you can ask for forgiveness. And try and forgive yourself.

But it's painful to do that. And when with somebody
like Dan who's done so many clearly morally objectionable, questionable
wrong things. Yeah, the level of shame, like how do

you how do you move past that?

Speaker 1 (18:29):
Don't you love them? Both Scott boys on the same day,
in the same hour went to their coach, Like Nathan
goes to his coach to deliver some amazing news and
Dan goes to his coach to ask him to kill him.
You know, like the role of mentors in a person's life,

it's really important. And and Whitey having removed himself from
Tree Hill, you know, he used to live in a
house a couple of doors down from Lucas Scott because
he went Lucas's house, Whitey's house, Jake Jigelski's house when
we were filming in that area. Yeah, he's now lived

his best cowboy life.

Speaker 4 (19:13):

Speaker 5 (19:14):
They really let Barry be Barry did those ties last forever?

Speaker 4 (19:20):
You know?

Speaker 1 (19:21):
And we see our boys coaching basketball now and wonder
you know, Nathan goes to Quentin's grave. Those are the legacies.
It's not blood, it's not family, it's it's that genuine
care that you choose, and Whitey still is coaching Dan.

He's coaching Dan through the self loathing even though he
hates this, dude, just love it.

Speaker 5 (19:51):
It's also a really interesting thing too. We're having all
these meditations on family in this episode and what family
and future looks like to people, and you know, is
it everything you always dreamed? And Dan struggles with this
idea that one of his sons has just had a

baby and he knows he won't be in their life,
so he goes to the only father figure he ever
really had, which is Whitey.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah, And.

Speaker 5 (20:24):
What a wild thing it must be for him to
realize that his boys feel the same, that Whitey was
much more a father figure to them, oh than Dan
ever was.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Wow, we needed more of Whitey this season.

Speaker 5 (20:36):
We really did.

Speaker 4 (20:36):
Also, like, Whitey didn't choose that. It's so like just
in piggybacking off of what you're saying, too, Hillary, because
he didn't choose that. He's like, I'm sure he was
not in the mood to mentor and be held account
holding this jackass accountable for the rest of his life
in town.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, constantly coached him at fifteen years old. He's like,
I got to do with Danny for how long?

Speaker 5 (20:59):

Speaker 4 (20:59):
But it's amazing how life does that, just keeps weaving
people together, kept putting Whitey in his path and Dan
and his Oh man, it's good storytelling, guys. It is.

Speaker 1 (21:12):
There should have been a trigger warning on this ideation,
the suicide bit, because you know, we've seen Nathan struggle
with it, We've seen Dan struggle with it. That is
something that is really sensitive, and Dan clearly is exhibiting
signs of distress. And I'm just like, did anybody make

a phone call after that? Or was it just like
not in my living room?

Speaker 5 (21:39):

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Just God, please do that somewhere else like that. Honestly,
that was making me crazy. I was like, is Dan
Scott so selfish that he's gonna go off himself in
Whitey's dream home? Like? That was something that was scary
for me because I was just like, what is he doing?
He's still not thinking about anybody other than himself in

this moment, and it was it was stressful to witness. Yeah,
and she didn't give trigger warnings very well.

Speaker 5 (22:06):
What a surreal thing like when you really think about that.

Speaker 1 (22:11):

Speaker 5 (22:14):
Ask a person who's known you most of your life.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
To kill you like.

Speaker 5 (22:20):
That is so heavy and I hadn't I hadn't thought
about what you were saying just now Hill in that way,
like the pressure to to put that pressure on someone else.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
My god, Dan is such a narcissist. Yeah, because then
he's still not held accountable. Then it's white he shot
him instead of him shooting himself. The accountability thing, You're right,
is like that's his kryptonite. He can't deal and he
makes assumptions about relationship that I don't think are there,

assuming that he was closer with Whitey than he really was.
When he talks about Sawyer and he says, she's the
only person in my life that doesn't know what I've
done in my head. I remember on the day and
when I just watched it back, thinking, you think she's
in your life, right, but you think there's a relationship there. Yeah,
that's weird. I would have never thought that.

Speaker 4 (23:19):
Yeah, he's he's so turned upside down. He doesn't know
what's up and what's down. That's what's so beautiful to
me about Whitey hugging him in that moment. That felt
so I wish we'd had more time with it, because
you could see how much work and time Paul and
Barry had put into that scene, and he only had

an hour for the episode, you know, but man, I
would like to have spent a little more time there
with them and that hug and just somebody letting him
know there's if there's a sliver of hope for you,
I'm willing to extend. In spite of all the things
you've done and all the things you've done to me,
I'm still willing to give you a hug and show

you love and compassion. That's outrageous, It's really beautiful.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
Well, he also I was scared for a moment that
Whitey was gonna, like really buy it. Barry was so
good in that when Nathan walks up, I was scared
that Nathan's moment was going to be ruined by Whitey
being like, you should share this with your father's son. Yeah. No,
they just like went and had the moment and Dan
had to walk away. And so while he showed compassion,

he's still maintained the boundary. Yes, you are on the outside, Danny,
and there's hope for you to be on the inside,
but you're gonna have to do the work. I'm not
your liaison I'm not your bridge. You go figure you
out and do the work. Yeah, And I think that's
important because we've given Dan's got chance after chance after chance,

and there are just certain personalities that cannot get out
of their own way and it's not anybody else's job
to fix them. He can sit. Maybe that applies to
our boss as well. There were so many apology speeches
in this script, and there was a part of me
sitting there listening to them, being like, what beautiful words,

what wisdom, what karma? Yeah, it's do the work. And
Dan hasn't done the work.

Speaker 4 (25:23):
He's on this journey now though it's like it seems
like it's actually starting, but we've had so many moments
of him feeling like he's actually starting, and so that's
what And so many people have told him that and
directly been there walking through that with him and giving
him these chances. And I want to believe it's new,

but I guess we'll see, we'll see what happens.

Speaker 1 (25:49):
I think when you take inventory of your life and
you look at the people who have stood by you,
and you look at the people who you were us
together with, there are people that need chance after chance
after chance, after chance after chance, and they're addicted to
new beginnings. They are addicted to conflict and resolution. In

my forties, I'm only now realizing to steer clear of
those people. I don't know if that's true. I think
it's really important to be empathetic and hold them at
arm's length because there are so many people out there
that are consistent and stable and supportive and safe, and

in realizing that, there's personality addictions. Like Dan Scott clearly
has this problem with wanting to start over and over
and over again, but never actually takes off. He never
actually gets to chapter two. He's always at chapter one
of the of the realization.

Speaker 4 (26:55):
Oh, you're saying like it's Sisyphus's rock, like people who
will get to the get to the breaking point and
then turn around and sabotage themselves all the way back
to the beginning. And then every time, Oh, I see
what you're saying, because I was like, yeah, I mean,
but everybody has to grow, like you have to have
constant new beginnings. How else do you grow as a human.
I don't know if that's an addiction. I think that's
actually like super important and healthy for people to continue

to grow in relationship.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
You can't continually sabotage your relationships over and over again.
And that's what we see Dan do. Yeah, and we
saw Lucas start to develop that pattern as a teenager
and grow out of it as an adult, which is
that's what you know, breaking generational curses is all about.
That's why we love Lucas because we know what he

could have been, we know what Nathan could have been,
and their whole storyline is to break that generational curse
and not follow what was modeled for them.

Speaker 2 (27:48):

Speaker 5 (27:50):
Yeah, well, and I think it's really it's a really
interesting thing. And they're you know, it's kind of like
JoJo's old phrase, right, like two horns on the same goat,
Like they're close together but also wildly different, these two
things we're talking about. You know, Yes, I think it's

an incredible thing to grow throughout your life and to
be willing to. By the way, like when we talk
about growth, when people you know, outgrow bad situations, or
they decide to break generational trauma, or they realize they're
in absolutely the wrong relationship and so they fucking leave.

Like I will celebrate people who leave what is not
good for them, who leave where they are being mistreated anytime.
I don't care how long you were there. I don't
care when you figured it out. If it was bad
for you, get out, like absolutely, And I also see
exactly that thing you're saying Hill where there's some people

who it's almost like people like Dan, people with those
sort of personality disorders create drama and harm so they
have something to talk about and fix.

Speaker 4 (29:11):
A problem to solve.

Speaker 5 (29:13):
Yeah, and it's I think it's really interesting. And you know,
obviously one of the signs of like healthy self reflection
when you're willing to take inventory and say like am
I outgrowing something? Or am I running from something? Am
I evolving in a good way? Or do I have

some crutch from my childhood or whatever? And it's like,
you know, there's that like famous adage that when we
talk about people like Dan, you know, when we talk
about narcissists, a narcissist will often tell you you're the
narcissist when you stop, when you start to refuse to

be on the receiving end of narcissistic abuse anymore. Yeah,
And you know, it's always a therapist who's helping you
cope with that. As I know, we've all had to
in our own ways. Who says, like, if you the
patient come in here and say, wait, could I be
the narcissist? No, because a narcissist will never ask if
they're a narcissist exactly, period, end of story. And so

I think all of that stuff, like everything we've learned
about who Dan is and how those sorts of personalities present.
And you know, the way Paul has been able to,
as such a talented actor, humanize this man who's a nightmare,
makes you feel for him in that moment, and it

allows Whitey to feel for him in that moment and
lovingly say to him, you did this. You are being
held accountable for the choices you made. You murdered your brother.
So it's really not surprising that your kids don't want
to hang out with you.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah, you know, and it's and it's wild to watch
what a hard pill that.

Speaker 5 (31:06):
Is for Dan to swallow.

Speaker 4 (31:07):
Yeah, Like, so you can escape and run away, or
if you're interested in redemption, there is hope for you
if you're interested in it. Yeah, if not, but you're
gonna have to do You get to choose.

Speaker 5 (31:19):
Yeah, it's a big it's a big thing. And what
an interesting thing too, like that the episode is actually
so happy. You see people everywhere choosing their joy, but this,
this heavy, heavy sort of anchor is in the middle
of it.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
But look at the flip side. Victoria is going through
the same situation, right, And so Dan, who's apologized and
apologized and apologize and apologized and apologize and apologize. I
mean it is an endless what the Dan Scott wants
a new chapter? Yeah? Sorry, Yeah, I'm bored bye. Victoria,

on the other hand, has also been a terrible selfish
me me and mom. And Victoria's apology in this episode
hit me totally differently because I believed it.

Speaker 5 (32:13):
Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 (32:15):
I think she actually will do the work. You can
tell that she's already done the work because she has
observed and been very specific in her apologies. Yes, And
that to me is the mark of a true apology,
because there's so many people that will say, well, whatever
I did, I'm sorry you No, you're not, Yeah, you
just wanted to end.

Speaker 4 (32:35):
Yeah, And there's action behind it, behind her apology.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
She's very specific. Yes, she hands over the companies, right,
that's right.

Speaker 5 (32:42):
And I like that you use the word observed because
something I love about this last series of episodes is
that we get to see and you know, they don't
give you a lot of quiet time on camera, especially
when you're in an ensemble cast like this. There's always
scenes that wind up on the cutting room floor because
you got to make the forty three minute line. Like

you know, for our friends at Home. It so much
gets cut out, all the air sometimes gets taken out.
And yet even in these jam packed episodes, we've gotten
so many scenes where we watch Victoria observe what's happening
around her, watching Brooke from behind, watching Brook with Sam,
watching Julian, watching She's watching, and she's realizing so many

things about her daughter's life that she just never knew
before because she was never around. And to see the
culmination of all that observation be that authentic apology where
she can look at Brooke and say, now I see
and I know what you need to hear, and I'm
sorry I didn't say it sooner. Oh I sobbed, I remember,

I mean genuinely sobbing.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
On the day I couldn't start. Daphnie and I just
wept together and.

Speaker 5 (34:06):
It made me cry. Today, the feeling of it is
so visceral, and it is exactly that. It's because it's
a real it's a real, deep observational apology, and there's
substance to it.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
Yeah, it requires real humility. It's not escape, it's not
self pity. It's actual humility. And I want to grow,
I want to change, And here's my attempt at action
behind it. Here's also this is such a great example
of tree Hill being such a central character in the
arc of all of our storylines that you look at

Dan who grew up in tree Hill, and he just
takes it for granted. He takes everything that he has
for granted. Big fish in a small pond. Here comes Victoria,
big fish in big pond, and comes into this tiny
little town and her whole heart is rearranged because of
her interactions with the people that live in this town

and stand on street corners and have kisses in moonlight,
and cars driving down the street that stop at red lights,
and boys coming in and out of the store, and
girls without parents coming in and meeting her daughter. Like
there's all these just beautiful, little romantic moments that have
chipped away at the ice around her heart. And this
moment was so satisfying for me because of that.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
I think there are also some parents that struggle to
connect with their children at different ages. So I know
a lot of people who are really great with their
kids until they hit about twelve. Everybody complains about like
middle school because they're like, all of a sudden, my
child's rebelling now, And I'm like, well, no, they're not.
They're own people, you know, And so it's really easy

to love us year old, super easy. And then there
are some people that are like little kids yack, and
they wait until their kids are like seventeen eighteen to
connect and have like a meaningful adult connection. And Victoria
just might be one of those people who until she
can speak to Brook woman to woman as an adult,

she struggles with no k Like we don't see her
with kids, we don't see her with like Jamie. She's
not a natural nurturer. She's not going to hold a baby,
you know.

Speaker 5 (36:33):
Peyton would rather hand her baby to Dan Scott than Victoria.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
A hundred of person, a hundred person.

Speaker 4 (36:41):
But I love that her performance wasn't overly emotional. That
was another thing that being someone who's not a natural nurturer,
who wouldn't be great with kids, she's not a super
emotional woman, or maybe she isn't.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
She just hides it all.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
But that's kind of also what made a great contrast
to dance performance, which was super emotional, super intense. That Victoria,
It's like, I'm not going to minimize your pain and
what I've done to you by making this moment about
me and needing you to comfort me because I'm crying
and I feel bad about myself and i feel bad
about all the things that I've done. It's like she

had enough respect for Brooke to hold that in ye
and let it, let the moment really be about Brook again,
so mature, so humble.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Loved it. I love that she talked about the dude
that she loved and that was the thing that like
got her. She's like, oh my god, I cannot let
my daughter make this life changing mistake that ruined my life. Yes,
meeting your father? Oof? I wonder who this guy was?
Was it Gregory Harrison? Did they meet later? And she's like, oh,

there you are.

Speaker 4 (37:47):
So good?

Speaker 3 (37:48):

Speaker 1 (37:49):
Yeah, who's the guy that broke Victorious hard? Does he
ever come back?

Speaker 4 (37:53):
Is that a thing that they bring back later?

Speaker 5 (37:55):
No? I mean you do meet my dad eventually, but
I don't think no.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
I bet he was like a Formula one race car
driver or a painter.

Speaker 4 (38:10):
Maybe he was a garbage man.

Speaker 5 (38:12):
Well, he definitely was. He did because she says he
didn't come from my circle. My parents wouldn't allow it,
and I, you know, I don't know. I think that's
a really profound thing as an adult and something that
I realized nobody talks to us about when we're younger.

You know, It's it's sort of been a big part
of my journey is figuring out like well, everybody says things.
You hear these phrases like marriage is hard, and you
know this is you really got to do the work,
and like, well, okay, but how hard Cause I don't know.
I've got friends, Like we've talked a lot about this, Hillary,

Like in all the years I've watched you and Jeffrey,
Like you guys done some hard work, but like you're
always having a good time and it might seem insane,
but like it really was this aha moment for me
of like, hold on, I don't think hard is supposed
to be torture.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
Right, that's just a cry every day.

Speaker 4 (39:17):
Yeah, for people who are used to laying down on
the in the road so everybody else can walk all
over that.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
You know.

Speaker 5 (39:22):
I was like, huh, I think like maybe sobbing at
the kitchen table every night is like not the kind
of hard that is sustainable.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, And I think there's something.

Speaker 5 (39:34):
So poignant about this moment between Brooke and Victoria watching
it now, like as a you know, woman in my
early forties who has just had the wild last couple
of years that I've had, It's like, I wish somebody
had been able to have that conversation with me in
my twenties, Like it's a conversation my mom and I

are having now where it's like, just because you do
everything you're supposed to do and everything society tells you
to do, and and you check every box on the
list that is presented to us, which is more or
less the same you know.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
For each good girl.

Speaker 5 (40:13):
Yeah girl, like and you do it and you're like,
is this it? Like is my reward for doing everything right?
Sobbing at my fucking kitchen table every night? Like really?

Speaker 1 (40:25):
And I love I love.

Speaker 5 (40:27):
That Victoria looks at her and says, I did what
I was supposed to do. I picked the right kind
of guy. And I've regretted it every day. Please don't
do what I did. Please go chase what makes you happy,
not the piece of paper or the guy from the
right social circle or you know, picking the beginning of
a season one of the knicks. Yeah, like, stop doing

the pr and go do your life.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
Stop doing the her is the thing when she said
I don't give a show that it's close over, bros,
that's bulls.

Speaker 5 (41:02):
Yeah, you misnamed your company.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
You need to take care of you and everything else
will be fine. Yeah, Like I loved that. Yeah, I
love that because old Victoria would have protected that brand
at all costs.

Speaker 5 (41:16):
Of course. And by the way, it's what we've all
been cultured to do. And you realize how your work
bleeds into your life, Like we've talked about it a
lot on this show. You get told you got to
show up. If you screw it up, you're screwing it
up for two hundred other people. You you better grin
and Barrett, you better do these days. You better not complain.
And when you learn to be a good girl, a

good soldier, you of course you take that home with you. Yeah,
and the permission slip to undo that, I mean, it
changed my life and I love from this moment in me,
my Sophia's life, watching this scene in this episode and going,
holy shit, that is even more profound then. I knew

it to be then, and I knew that scene was
a big deal then because I couldn't stop crying like
a baby all day while we shot.

Speaker 1 (42:08):
You're so good. You were so shocked, you were flabbergasted
to hear those words come out of her mouth. Yeah,
And it was so like sweet to watch. It was
almost like you were pinching yourself, like is this real?
Is there gonna be a punchline at the end.

Speaker 5 (42:24):
Yeah, When she says I am so proud of you,
like capital s O like I, I burst into tears
in the dead I was just like yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
But it's like it's it's a life lesson that we've
applied here because for ten years I kept my mouth
shut about what went on on our show because I
didn't want to be it for the fans. I was
a good girl. I towed the party line, you know
what I mean, Like I did all the things I
was told to do. I fulfilled the expectations. And the

second I said get and I just started telling the
truth about what really happened here. It didn't ruin it
for the fans. If anything, the love of our show
and the fervor for our show has grown since we
started telling the truth about what this was. And I
hope that's you know, I hope that means something to

somebody out there who's going through a similar situation. If
you're honest about it, if you're honest about your feelings
about the reality, the shame goes away, right, you can
actually take pride in it again. I hated talking about
our show for a full decade, and now I'm like, Jeffrey,

you got to watch this. We are adorable. We will
never be cute or in our whole life. I'm so
proud of this show because in telling the truth, I've
been able to separate the stuff I didn't like and
the stuff that I love. And so hearing victory like
a woman on the show be that called arms, you're right,

it is more meaningful now, all these years later.

Speaker 5 (44:08):
Yeah, I see things in it that I didn't see them,
and I love it. I love her so much. I
didn't think I could love Daphne anymore, and here we are,
and it makes me love our storyline even more because
it echoes the same sort of thing that you and
I get to have in this episode, Hillary, when I

come to see you with the baby, like we're the
love story. And I feel the same way about Daphne
and about Victoria and Brooke. I'm like, now they're a
love story too.

Speaker 1 (44:43):

Speaker 5 (44:43):
And it's so that's not to say our epic love
stories Peyton and Lucas and Brook and Julian and Haley
and Nathan are less valuable at all. You know, they're
the wish fulfillment. But the friendships we forge, they're the
things that raise us. They are the places we go
home to, Like, you know, it's just a different thing.

And when your best friend has a baby and you're like,
oh great, he's gone, Well it's our baby.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
This is actually our baby. Five.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
Victoria gave Brook what she's been searching for this whole time,
I mean the whole time we've known Brook. She's been
searching for that permission to stop, to be okay with
the mess. I feel like Brook's always pushing, She's always like,
the mess is okay, It's okay, we have to be messy.
But it's also like in action, it's all like trying
to be perfect all the time and then falling apart

and then trying to put it all together again. And
Victoria is the only person in the world who can
give that to her because she's the one who created
the problem in the first place with Brook by raising
her to be someone who felt the constant need to perform. Yeah,
and by giving her this gift of the opposite perspective

that she's always been told. I'm really curious to see
how that progresses for Brook having this now new permission.
The release is.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
Brook gonna wear sweatpants? Now? Could the imagine Brooke Lane
in Sam's bed, in the bedroom that looks just like
Peyton's old bedroom. Yeah, Brook Lane in the bed with
her mini skirt and her perfect hels. I was like,
Brooke Davis needs to Yeah, I'm like, could I just

have like some house shoes?

Speaker 5 (46:34):
What are we doing?

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Does Brook not have a robe? She is in action
has to be perfect all the time. So Yeah, I
love I love what you're saying. Their joy. The Victoria
is the only one that can break that spell.

Speaker 5 (46:46):
Friends, we're getting the signal from our producers that we've
done a whole episode, but we're clearly not done talking
we have a lot to discuss, and honestly, after six seasons,
I think we've earned it. So let's come back in
the next episode for part two.

Speaker 4 (47:03):
Hey, thanks for listening.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
Don't forget to leave us a review.

Speaker 5 (47:06):
You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens oh.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio dot com.
See you next time. We all about that high school drama.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Girl Drama Girl, all about them high school queens. We'll
take you for a ride at our comic Girl Sharing
for the right Teams. Drama Queenslease my Girl, rough Girl.

Speaker 1 (47:30):
Fashion with your tough

Speaker 3 (47:31):
Girl, you could sit with us Girl Drama Queens, Drama
Queise Drama Queens, Drama Drama Queens Drama Queens
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