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April 29, 2024 50 mins

The girls get into a very charming villain, an especially gnarly time period, a world class jab and Sophia opens up about a difficult battle she hasn't gotten over losing.

Plus, find out why this episode in particular results in the girls getting made fun of the most!

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
First of all, you don't know me.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
We all about that high school drama, Girl Drama, Girl,
all about them.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
High school queens. We'll take you for a ride.

Speaker 3 (00:09):
And our comic girl Cheering for the right Teams.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Drama, Queens up Girl Fashion, which your tough girl, you
could sit with us, Girl Drama, Queens Drama, Queens Drama,
Queens Drama, Drama, Queens Drama, Queens.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Welcome back, friends, and welcome back to the States.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Joy, Thanks so much.

Speaker 3 (00:31):

Speaker 1 (00:31):
I'm glad you guys held down the fort. Well, I
was gone. I missed you, but I'm glad to be back.
And what an episode to come back to.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
What an episode to come home to. And also you
poor thing to be so jat lagged for.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, I'm okay, I'm gonna survive. But yeah, it's the
second day. I took that flight from London to Nashville,
the direct flight yesterday, and it's the one you really
try and stay awake on because you land at seven
pm and you want to be able to actually fall
asleep at night. So it was it was fine, but

it got me. It got me the next day.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Yeah, the second day hit. Yeah, your body's like, what
do you mean sleep, we're supposed to be awake right now,
and then vice versa.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
So if I don't make a lot of sense today,
y'all just can forgive me. Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
So when this episode opened on the SIMS, did you
think you were hallucinating or were you I clicked the
wrong show for a second.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
What is this?

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Why are we?

Speaker 4 (01:32):

Speaker 1 (01:33):
Wait, it's Tree Hill characters. Okay, this is definitely something
there was. I can't even as soon as I saw
the hospital, yeah, it opened on the SIMS. But as
soon as I saw the hospital and then Dan's heart
the little beeper thing, I went, oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
I know you knew what the episodes guys, this is
the episode we get talked about. Well, I won't say
talked about the most, for I will say made fun
the most.

Speaker 4 (02:00):

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Yeah, that's accurate.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
It is none other than season six, episode eighteen, Searching
for a Former Clarity. The episode aired March twenty third,
two thousand and nine. Lucas and Julian hit a setback
with the production of the film when Julian's dad gets fired.
Peyton and Haley helped me out with her new single.
Brook must intervene when Sam is arrested for stealing. Not

sure she does it appropriately, but we'll get to that,
and Jamie discovers the truth about Dan and Uncle Keith.
This episode, there are such sweet moments in it, and
it's also such a doozy and yeah, dog eats a
heart and everything is insane. But first and foremost, I
have to say when it started on the SIMS, I literally,

out loud said why are we starting on the Sims?
And then I said why is Andy here? And then
I realized it wasn't Andy, it was Dan.

Speaker 4 (02:53):
Oh my gosh, that's funny.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
But Dan's Sims animation to me looks like Karen's husband Andy.

Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah, yeah, that's right he did. Oh that's so funny. Yeah,
I'm glad it was only briefly though, the yeah the
Sims thing, but it was cute. I like the idea
of seeing things through Jamie's eyes, which they seemed to
do a lot of in this episode, just taking a
look at you know. Yeah, you're right. So there were
a lot of really poignant, meaningful moments, and then there

were just bizarre dog eating hearts moments.

Speaker 4 (03:29):
But I liked it.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
I think overall, I'm just thinking about this now, like
if the dog eating the heart in the hospital was
not in this episode. Do I like this episode? And
I do? I do.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
Yeah, here's the thing. There has to be a way
for Dan to not get the heart.

Speaker 4 (03:51):

Speaker 3 (03:51):
The extreme choice of having a dog that's eaten pounds
of weed so it's high and hungry eat the heart is,
you know, a choice that was made choice. I just
it was so silly to me, let's just get it
over with it, like pulled me out because I was like,

why is it in a lunch box? A lunchbox?

Speaker 1 (04:14):
Why is it sealed?

Speaker 3 (04:15):
It should be hermetically sealed or whatever the term is for,
you know, so it doesn't get contaminated, and like all
of the little things where I was like, it's so
far fetched that I can't Yeah, I can't stop asking
questions instead of actually watching the scene. But then I
did have to wonder, is that because we've been ridiculed

for this for a decade and a half and so
we're just ready to hate it. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
No, I think you're right. I think they The mistake
that they made, in my opinion, was not building it
up enough, not taking the time to show, like instead
of starting on the sims, which I appreciate the sentimentality
of seeing things through Jamie's eyes. However, if we had
started on the medic who was whatever coming in from

a bender of the night before and didn't seal the
thing up properly, and we follow the case and it's like,
why is it? I have no idea why it was
in a.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
Lunchbox lunch fuck. I was like, what's happening?

Speaker 1 (05:12):
I don't know why. But if we if they had
actually come up with plausible explanations for just you know,
when it rains, it poors, when everything goes wrong. There
are days when it's the perfect storm. If we saw
why the heart falling out was the perfect storm, then
it really would have actually paid off. I think, yeah,

that you've been following it the whole time, like here
it comes, here, it comes, here, it comes and then
and then it doesn't. Then the dog eats the heart
like that would have been interesting. But yeah, to have
it suddenly just be there and then gone, well, it
didn't quite And why.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Did the man whose dog ate his drugs take the
dog to the er and not to the vet because
he was high too. And the nurse said it.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
She was like, I'm gonna sit your ass down. I'm
gonna call a veterinarian. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, it was.
There were ways, there were ways that could have improved that,
but it didn't happen. Nevertheless, that setting that to the side,
I did really there were so many things about this

episode that I really did love, enjoy, appreciate. Yeah, so,
I don't know, let's get started. What was the first Okay,
I didn't write my notes in order because I'm brain
dead right now.

Speaker 3 (06:31):
I've got mine in order. I will say I loved
just getting to watch Kate sing and how it sets
us up later for the arc for Mia and Hayley
and Peyton, and I really like that there was this
sort of mirroring thing happening with the boys with Julian

and Lucas and Vanderbeek. I don't know why I can't
call him by his character's name because he just makes
me giggle. But it's like, I like seeing these creative teams,
and in a way, it gives me that sort of
nostalgia for the high school years of the show, because
it's like the girls are off on an adventure and
the boys are off on an adventure, and then you
actually see skills with all the little kids playing basketball,

and I don't know, there's something really sweet happening, and
it's fun to get to watch those groups. I really
enjoyed all.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Of that me too. It was there were a lot
of moments of transition. I did love seeing the groups
of Hayley, Mia and Peyton. Was nice to see them
back together. It did remind me a bit of, Yeah,
the high school stuff when we would go off and
we had scavenger hunt night, or when we had stuck
in a car siphoning gas night inside of the road stuff,

all those little moments. They really were good. That Writer's
room was good at bringing back that feeling recalling those
moments for the audience.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah, and there was something happening in this episode too,
where we were using our locations really well. I loved
seeing all the boys on the river court over and
over again, and not just the three making the movie,
but also you know, Nathan and Lucas at the end.
I loved you know you guys all over you were
home and at school and at trick and like everything

just felt so full, even that scene with all of
us lined up at the bar kind of drowning our
sorrows together. And then beak comes highly upy like it
just a lot of it felt fun. There was a
lot of really good motion and blocking. Yeah, and it
was nice.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
I'm gonna give up my honorable mention early because James
Vanderbeek is electric in this episode. I mean he's great.
I feel like he always comes in. He had a
lot of energy, but it was as though he he's
the anti Dawson in this in this space, which must
have been interesting for him as an actor to come
back work on the same stages with this whole new

crew of actors that took over the the crew in
the stages that they had been on for so long.
And I love that he made this choice to come
in and play this wild, loud, over the top character
and he did it so sincerely. It didn't feel it
was over the top, but it didn't feel implausible again

like that. There was something about the way he did
the performance that was like, Yeah, I'm like, I mean,
he's a douche, but I kind of know this guy.

Speaker 4 (09:25):
He kind of met.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
This guy so much energy. Every single scene that he
walked into he just soaked up sucked all the energy,
not sucked, but I guess he he absorbed all of it.
I'm saying it wrong. Help jet Lag.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
I know what you mean. It's like he he really
gave it all.

Speaker 4 (09:44):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
Yeah, it's like he would he would take whatever was
thrown at him and then throw it back twice the
size in a good way. Like he was making so
much more out of what was happening in the room.
And it was really fun by the way, I even
I wrote this down in his first scene. You know
that he's so gross, this man sitting saying, you have

to get me a helicopter so I can have sex
in it. But he's so funny. I was like, he
is even charming to me. While by the way, literally
that whole scene revolving around the fact that this director
is rewarding the casting couch, Like it's so gross and
it's such a clear, so gross, icky thing that our

boss like wrote into this episode and it's oh, it's
just gross, and yet watching James Vanderbeek do it, I
absolutely love it. He's a douche and I love him.
It's like the guy you love to hate.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah, well, in the context he's making fun of it,
but he's doing it in a way where you can
enjoy the experience, but you're aware of how absolutely disgusting
and ridiculous it is.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
It was great.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
It was the very masterful performance.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
I really it's really fun when you get a charming villain. Yeah,
you know, it's someone who's fun to think the worst about.
That's really enjoyable, rather than having to be terrified or
you know, traumatized or whatever that we're all just exhausted by.
I really like being able to laugh at the bad guy.

Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, I do too, because we used to be able
to do that with Dan early on, but he went dark,
so fat, But now it's so dark so fast. Now
it feels a lot like he's I mean, he's going
through a very dramatic transition.

Speaker 3 (11:35):
Yeah, this is a gnarly time for Dan. I did
love the little jab that Lucas gets in when Lucas
and Peyton come in for their checkup and see Dan
and he says I'm getting a heart and Luke goes,
it's about time.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
I was like, that's so good. Yeah, I did a
little double take on that one.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
It's so on the nose, but like it's funny about time.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, it's so interesting to be in a small town.
You got your heart transplant coming in, and everybody he
knows that is around him. It's so funny actually, how
everybody is dealing with his impending death. The everybody's pretty

casual about it, I guess by now because they're like
they're like, just die already.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
It's so dark, Like the fact goes this is where
I say goodbye and then just like turns around to
keep doing whatever she's doing in the kitchen. I was like,
I mean, I know you hate him more than anyone,
but woman, you were married to this man, Like that's it.

Speaker 4 (12:39):
That's it.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Yeah, that was that was gnarly. Poor little Jamie's the
only one who cares. And then finally he says, you
shot Keith. I gotta get out of here, take me home.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Yeah, there's something very It almost feels very plaintive, you know,
in Paul's performance, the the wanting a second chance so
badly and then realizing you're not going to get it,
and having to see that everyone is okay with that.
Everyone in your life and family is like, good, you

didn't deserve a second chance. That has to be so heavy.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah, how would you deal with that? I mean, that's
like him going out into the ocean. I guess that's it, right,
just I really did love that scene him in the water.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
I did.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, Yeah, I loved it. I loved so much about it.
I loved because I've been there. I've been in that
in the pain of feeling like, hey, God, you like,
I'm how dare you? How dare you allow this abency
to happen to me? And I you know, I'd love

that He's like, I'm not going to pray and I'm
not gonna I'm not gonna cower whatever. If you you're
you come get me, because that's that's the best you got,
you know. I love it because it's so funny because
he is praying, that's what he's doing. That's what he's
exactly what he's doing by even just acknowledging the presence

of something bigger than him that is.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
Watching. I don't know, involved.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
Doesn't care, well, whatever, whatever the perspective is, he still
is acknowledging that and having this dialogue that keeps him
from being lonely.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Well, and he has no one else left to talk to.

Speaker 4 (14:37):
He has no one else left.

Speaker 3 (14:39):
And what a big statement, right, you know, he's in
the ocean screaming I give up.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
Yeah, yeah, I give up.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
It's like more than surrender. Yeah, because he's, you know,
potentially attempting to end his life. And it's so it's
interesting that someone like Dan, who has always exhibited that

he thinks he's in control like a real narcissist does,
to say I give up is like, oh boy, and
I don't think it's an accident. Then afterward, the next
meaningful interaction he has with the only person who's still
interested in speaking to him, who's Jamie, is when he

tells the truth about Keith.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, he just gave up. He's like, I'm actually just done. Yeah,
what's left? Trying to manipulate, organize what I'm true now,
but now knowing kind of what comes in the next
few seasons with Dan that he did he actually give
up or did he just become the same person all

over again.

Speaker 4 (15:54):
I don't know. He's heavy.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
But I thought Paul did such a great job that
I really did, and it was moving. M deb I
was happy to see the two of them in this
episode too, because it's been a minute. Yeah, they were
on camera together and back in the same room. Barb,
I mean, she had a lot to do in this

episode between dealing with all the emotional stuff. Okay, my
ex husband is, who has tortured me and destroyed relationships
all over this town and destroyed so many things in
my life, is about to die. I feel good about that.
And I've got this hot young snack who is all
about me, wants to have kids with me, he wants
to do this whole life, and she's trying to let

him down easy. I mean, this woman has a lot
going on.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
She's really she's really on the roller coaster of the
highs and lows. But I have to say I just
loved that when Skills does the thing where he, you know,
flirts with her about how they could have some kids
eventually and she says, no, no, and he's like, oh,
you know, baby, you could have more kids, like you're

not that old whatever that means, and she just very
simply says, yes, I could, but I don't want to. Yeah, like, no, sir,
that's not going to be my journey. And I I
loved that, and I love that we did that in
two thousand and nine, like it's not this year, by

the way, where Sophia Vergara talks about her marriage to
our friend ending because he wanted to have kids, and
she was like, I've done that, like my son is
post college. No, sir, that's not my journey.

Speaker 1 (17:37):
Oh is that what happened? Yeah, she talked.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
About it like publicly recently, and I thought, how just
how cool to be able to be so honest, you know.
And I think people are just getting honest about so
many more things, like whether it's you know, saying no,
I'm done, or fertility or whatever it is. Like, you know,

I feel like more and more people are just getting
a little more pragmatic about it. And maybe that's because
we realize that not being pragmatic about women and our
health and our bodies leads to people with no medical
expertise making laws about them. So like, we better talk
about it.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
I guess we should start talking.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Yeah. I just thought that was so refreshing. It was like,
it's not drama, it's not anything. It's just these two
people are at very different stages in their lives, which
means their relationship can't continue. And it was really interesting
to see that modeled on our show by this woman
who just stood in her power and just went own.

Speaker 1 (18:36):

Speaker 3 (18:37):
I know, but that's that's not for me. I was like, Oh,
it really I was so taken aback by it in
a good way.

Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah, and also that that she had the it's a sacrifice.
It's not just standing in her she is for sure
standing in her power, but there has to there's a
real humility and sacrifice to putting what someone else, what's
best for someone else, in front of what you want.

Because I'm sure like nothing would have made her feel
better than to hunker down with skills.

Speaker 4 (19:11):
That they had a good thing going.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
It was fun, they made each other feel really good
and really safe, and it was I really have enjoyed
the trajectory of their relationship me too. It was a
surprise and I loved it. But putting like she could
see his future, that he was not old enough to
understand what it is that he would be sacrificing, and

she was man. When I was I don't know, nineteen
or twenty living in New York City, somebody invited me
to this slam poetry thing, and slam poetry was not
a It wasn't popular back then. Nobody I'd never heard
of it, nobody was really doing much of it. But
it was at CBGB's which is now closed.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
So now it's a John Varvados, not that I don't
like John Varvados, but it does break my heart. Oh God,
I'm like, your leather jackets are great, but this place
needs to be really cool epic.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
So I got invited to this thing and I went,
and it was super cool. I mean just hearing all
of these artists get up and share poetry, sometimes with music,
like they might have somebody with them playing music where
they would just kind of wrap it out or whatever.
And this woman gets up and she doesn't have music,
and she's not rapping or anything, and she just has

this story to tell, and she told a story of
this beautiful it was probably like a five minute story.
This beautiful romance that she had with this younger man
who is ten years younger than her I think she
was maybe thirty five, was so it made her feel
so alive. She had so many bad relationships before and
it was so healthy and beautiful. And they got engaged

and she realized that the one thing he really wanted
with kids, and she.

Speaker 4 (21:18):

Speaker 1 (21:19):
She just did not. She just didn't want to have them,
and she had to. She told this really heartbreaking story
about how she let him go, and it was it
was a major sacrifice, and it broke her heart and
it broke his heart, and so many people in their
life were like, are you sure. I mean, like, come on,
is that you guys love each other? You only get

one life. She just said, I cannot do that to him.
He doesn't know what he's losing, he doesn't know what
he's sacrificing. But I promise I am helping him with
his future. This is the best thing I could do
for him anyway, she said. At the end of the story.
Fast forward three years later, she runs into him on
the street and got a two year old on his

shoulders and his new wife had a baby in her arms,
and he just gave her a big hug and said,
thank you, thank you so much. And I have never
forgotten that story.

Speaker 4 (22:15):
It is.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
It's so powerful to think about how difficult it is
sometimes for us to let things that we really want
go for the sake of someone else. Is good.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
Yeah, And you know what I think about that too,
is like when you can see the writing on the wall,
it doesn't matter how much love there's been between you,
or what the history is, or how hard you wanted
to try, Like you just know and somebody has to
be brave first. Yeah, But if you're willing to be

brave first, you can set the both of you free. Yeah,
Because to your point, someone might be like, no, I
don't want it to be over, and it's like, yeah,
but you're not going to get what you ultimately want here,
and neither am I, And so one of us has
to be brave.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
It's just gonna it's gonna rot. Like you've got to
You got to get to it before it starts to turn. Oh,
which doesn't negate all the time you've spent, or all
of the investment or all of it doesn't. Because something ends,
it doesn't mean that it was a waste of time.
But you cannot keep wasting time once you know where

you're at M.

Speaker 3 (23:27):
Once you see it, you just can't unsee it. Yeah,
And I think I actually think that's something we should
start celebrating, because what we like to do is celebrate
the surface and be like, oh, look at this thing
that looks picture perfect or that thing that looks whatever
fill in the blank. But it's like, yeah, I think
we should start to celebrate each other when we say,

you know what it's it's not what I thought I've
learned the lesson. Okay, Like it's a really it's a
really brave thing and I like it and I like
that Nanny Debb is sorry cool.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
So if what would that look like celebrating sacrifice, it's.

Speaker 3 (24:07):
Not even necessarily the sacrifice. I just think we should
celebrate people when they make the best decision for them,
whether that's saying or leaving, whether that's deb honkering down
with skills or saying, I know this part of you
because by the way, we would all be healthier. And

to bring it back to the show, it's such a
healthy thing. She's modeling and she sees him and she's
just like, listen, I see this about you. And it's
a smart device in the writing that we get to
watch him coaching the kids because it's so cute and
it is so sweet, and we see Andre and Jamie

together and we love that their friendship is continuing. And
you know, the best three name we've ever heard is
coach uncle Skill and it just does it like melts
your heart. You know. He he sits those kids down
and he gives them these compliments and he tells them
why they're great even though they're small and no one's
in actually no one's actually a skilled athlete yet you know,

and you really do get to see that he has
an innate goodness with them, and that's what she mirrors
back to him. And she doesn't make it personal and
she doesn't make it emotional, and she's not cold, but
she's not sobbing. It's not this big thing. It's just like,
this is the end of the line for us because
we both want two very different outcomes. And that's okay,

I agree.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Another testament to Antoine's abilities to I don't know that
he was given not I don't know. He definitely wasn't
utilized to the best of his abilities on the show.
I mean, he got some moments, but man, I really
wish he had been integrated more heavily into a lot
of the storylines because he's just so capable, so capable

as an actor, going from fun and playful immediately into
dropping it and realizing how difficult this is going to be,
and just watching him go from being even playing a
teenager to being a really a strong young man who's
now growing up into a full grown man to figure
out what he wants with his life. He gave his
character such a such an arc that the writers didn't

give him. He took care of it himself. He just
was like, I got this, let me. You're not gonna
give it to me, let me just do it myself.
So talented.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
Yeah, he always did. And it's so it's just so
much fun, I know, you know, And it's like you
sort of wonder, is it the chicken or the egg
right where you're like, well, he was always so good
at making a meal out of anything they gave him.

Did that make them a little lazier with him? Or
were they just, you know, folks based on the quote
unquote core five storylines more and then putting him in
where it felt like it made sense. I don't know,
but I agree, I just want more.

Speaker 1 (27:10):
Yeah. I think that happens on a lot of TV
shows though, when you've got a character who's really charismatic
and an actor you can just trust to run with something. Yeah,
I think they do. At the end of the day,
the squeaky wheel gets the grease. The ones that are
like you can rely on are just kind of okay, well,
we can trust him, He'll take care of this. But yeah,

I mean I can't. I would love to see more
of him. I love seeing more of antoine and anything. Honestly, yeah, I.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Do want to. I'm just gonna say it now, because
perhaps that's that musing or questioning I just did. It
is going to be viewed as a criticism of the writers.
I didn't mean it to be, but I actually do
have a major criticism. I hate hate that they made
me use the R word in that scene with Sam.

I hated it then, I hate it now. I think
the idea that like a foster parent would say that
to a kid, I don't know. I just I hated
it so much, but it was a battle that I lost.
They wanted the fight to be like explosive and whatever,
and it makes me feel so cringey.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
Now, wait, but she didn't say that Sam was. She
was saying that she told the store owner as that,
like as an excuse. It was meant as a comedic moment, right,
And I'm not saying it's okay, I'm just clarifying, like
what the.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
Yes, I think it was meant as a comedic moment,
but I just think it's like, I think it's so ugly.
I think like, if you have to punch down to
tell a joke, you're just not that good at telling jokes. Yeah,
and oh boy, I hate it so much. But I
will say in the like mediate like, oh I remember
this day and like the fights about it. I also

remember something that I like, which is they were like,
this has to be like an explosive fight, and I
was like, I can't just like scream at her because
I am like.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
I was expecting Unfixable to be the thing that you
fought on.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
Yeah, well, I mean I did love that either, but
the idea where the idea that it had to be
so explosive for everything to change later, for her to
go to Julian on my behalf, for Julian to come
to me on her behalf, for us to make up
over Jack, like all the stuff that I loved so much.

It was actually a moment that I was really grateful
to be pushed because the conversation was if it's not
something you feel so bad about doing, the payoff won't
be as big for the audience when you feel bad
about yep. And And it's really interesting because sometimes it
made me think like, yeah, sometimes I have this instinct

where I don't want I don't want my character to
be an asshole, especially six years in I love Brooke Davis,
and I am like, I think she knows better than
this by now, But the reality is that human beings
made mistakes. And by the time I got to the
end of the episode, I was like, they were right.
Having me really flip out and really raise my voice
was right. It was the right call. I needed to

really go overboard so I could apologize for going overboard, okay,
And it was so funny to me to be watching
it at you know, in twenty year twenty four and
be like, I remember how upset I was about this
in two thousand and nine, and I'm glad. I I'm
glad I was pushed.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
That's great. No, I'm glad you were too. Yeah, and
I'm glad you.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
You brain is shutting down.

Speaker 4 (30:51):
I have no vocabulary words.

Speaker 1 (30:52):
When you give in whatever, there's a better word for that,
when you when you go yes, I thought I was
a C word, but I can figure it out. Thank
you when you And I'm glad that you did, because
I agree. It was a total It was a payoff,
totally worth experiencing. It really was, and it was great
for Sam's character too, to be able to go through
that arc of walking through the whole episode and feeling

like I really am unfixable, and then to have that
mirrored back to her, Actually, I was wrong.

Speaker 4 (31:20):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
There's so many great things that happen when a adult
admits they were wrong to a child. Yes, it's so powerful.
I've seen it happen in my own life with my daughter.
It's been powerful for me even in my adult life
when one of my parents has apologized for something. It's
really powerful. I loved seeing that.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
And I think, what's cool about it? You know, it's
really interesting right having this perspective twenty years after the
show came out, Because one of the words we use
on this podcast a lot is modeling, Like what are
we modeling for our audience? What are we you know?
What were we modeling then? That we can see now?

And I really think it's important. What you're talking about is,
especially when kids are young and adults are willing to
admit that they were wrong or apologize for mistakes, or
say they're sorry for raising their voice or hurting their
feelings or whatever it might have been. It also teaches
kids that they are allowed to make mistakes and that
the mistakes are not catastrophic. Yes, they are allowed to

be imperfect and it's totally human and okay. And as
a person who does a lot of therapy for this,
cut to the ad JK, I know how transformative it's
been to begin to have that with my own family,
even as an adult, because I didn't.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah, do you think the reason you were fighting back
on it so much when you were younger is because, like,
did you have trouble admitting when you feel like you
had made a mistake in real life?

Speaker 4 (32:54):
You didn't know where to put it, like was it?

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Did it feel like there was shame and so you
didn't know where to put it and you didn't want
Brooke to feel that way.

Speaker 3 (33:01):
Yeah, I think anything that pushes like on the shame
button is hard for me because there there was just
no room for mistakes like that didn't That just was
not a thing that was allowed. And the irony is
like perfectionism is when you are ingrained to be or
become a perfectionist, you are consciously or unconsciously signing yourself

up to be a constant failure because perfection doesn't exist,
So it just like keeps you living in a shame
spol And I think what's really powerful about what you're saying,
like modeling with your kid. Now, what I've been able
to see shift in my family as an adult with
my own you know parents, and what I see with

so many of the parents in my life is the
space you know for fallibility and for mistake and having
it be something you don't have to be ashamed at
all is such a big deal. And the interesting thing
is that I can see how much shame Sam carries

and how that's one of the things that Brooke wants
her not to feel. But in a way Brooke has
to make her feel ashamed in this episode for them
to both learn.

Speaker 4 (34:20):
That's a great point.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
I love when I see that happen in stories like
these or just in real life, when the thing that
you're going through or the mistake that like the mistake
that I make and feel horrible about and then I
have to go back and apologize or whatever, and then
seeing how the other person actually needed that, Like Maria

for example, if I do something, I yell or I whatever, whatever,
whatever it is all the many millions of mistakes that
I have made as a parent, and going back and
then it does it gives her the permission. And when
you kind of pull back for a bird's eye view
and look at the cosmic meanings of things like this,
and you go, oh, so, in a way, my mistake

was always meant to happen because it's providing the sense
of mercy and space for another person to realize, Oh,
it's okay to make mistakes, and we're all just doing
that for each other, like handing off the permissions to
be human.

Speaker 4 (35:19):
It's lovely.

Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, yeah, it really is. And it's like, I think,
the interesting thing about what I see in Brooke and
Sam's dynamic from this vantage point is they both really
see the best in each other, and they both see
the way the other gets in their own way. Like

you can see where Sam gets in her own way,
and Sam fully calls Brooke out on how she's getting
in her own way and calls Joy.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
And she the message on the machine.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
So good, and her grabbing the phone and being like, yeah,
she's right here, and forcing the adult in the room
to talk to the other adult because they're the ones
being children and they won't do it. Like, I love
the dynamics so much, and I love I love that
because someone is advocating for her in this new way,

it really does force Brook to confront the fact that
she is terrified to be in love with someone again.
You know, she's just like, I don't know if I was.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
Doing you by the way that opening sequence with you
and Austin with the I don't do that last I
love you. Oh yeah, so funny, Yeah, really funny. I
know you guys are great together.

Speaker 3 (36:38):
Yeah. We I mean, we just have so much good
chemistry and like, you know, we've known each other since
we were twenty three years old, Like there is so
much even now, like there's just so much affection between us,
and I love getting to look back at There's really
something too, I think when you have such deep familiarity

with people, like if he'd if he'd been a stranger cast,
I'm sure we would have, you know, found something great.
But like, sure, there's a when you have a depth
of familiarity on camera with someone, it adds like a
little something special. And I yeah, I don't know. I
love their dynamic together. I'm like, I room for these two.

They're very cutey.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
I did too, and it's kind of immediate too. I mean, well,
you know, you like Brooke and Owen. I liked the
doctor guy that she never got to have a relationship
with I liked I'm trying to you know, Brooke and
Lucas had their moment that there was some really fun
stuff there, but it wasn't It wasn't electric like it
is on camera with Man. You guys are so great

and it's that friendship. It's the familiarity, it's the ease
of moving around each other where it's you're not getting
to know a new actor in each other's mannerisms and
it's just so so much comfort and you could see that.
And I really love these two together a lot.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
I feel like I see the exact same thing in
Haley and Nathan in this episode too, Like you and
James have such a good shared language after all these
years that I love the humor that they put into
the dynamic of him sort of sitting back and letting
you like hurricane around because you're mad and you're hurt
and you're righteous and you're all these things that you

absolutely deserve to be and he's just like you reorganize
in the kitchen, like it really killed me in I
also was like, wow, this is like a moment where
as a viewer, I feel a little attacked because I
reorganize the kitchen when I am stressed out, I was like,
why do we do that? Is that just like, is
that like such an adhd thing that we do where

we're like, wow, I don't want to deal with this.
So what I'm going to do is alphabetize the spice.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Oh yes, oh yes, I don't well, I don't tend
to do that in a I guess it's two different
types of neurodivergent. You can always have a different flavor.
My flavor is I'll do that in the middle of
the argument, Like I get avoidant in the middle of it,
and I'm organizing the drawer while I'm trying to have
a real conversation.

Speaker 3 (39:07):
It's like, your hands need to be busy for your
mind to have something to do.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
It's probably my pride too, because it's too vulnerable to
just sit and stare at somebody in the eyes and
be like, I'm mad at you.

Speaker 4 (39:16):
Why did you say that?

Speaker 3 (39:18):
This is uncomfortable?

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Yeah, it feels better. Just be like, I'm going to
organize the drawer and you can think about what you did.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yeah, you can sit there and look at me while
I do something productive.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
It's right, it's right. It's so dumb and transparent.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
I loved the I loved the phone call with you guys.
I thought that it was so sweet and it just
made me giggle. It felt really familiar. I thought it
was great writing. And then when you circle back and
you know, he's telling you the things he knows about you, right,
that you're going to do the right thing, that you're
gonna that you're you're going to figure it out. And

I love that we see as the episode goes on,
Haley really sink into the realization that the right thing
is the true thing. And I'm going to tell these
kids and yes, I'm I'm gonna lose my job and
it's going to be awful and they will miss out
on the rest of the year in my class, but

this will be the example I can set for them
that they will never forget. Yeah, And I thought that was.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
It's great cool, Yeah, because when somebody I was thinking
about that too, that storyline that that is how tough
decisions come up. It's like it's going to have to
be one thing or the other, and when somebody puts
you in a position where you have to either do
it their way or lose. I don't know, something that's

important to you or it put you know you're gonna
it's gonna cost someone else something, like her class is
going to lose. They're a really great teacher. But at
the end of the day, that's not on her, that's
on principal rim GISs. Is that what I called this
was her name red ho No, but it is. It's
on her and Haley. I really appreciated watching watching her

as you know, I'm removed now it's been so long
because I don't really remember doing this storyline.

Speaker 3 (41:17):

Speaker 1 (41:19):
Walking with the character through realizing I've been put into
this position by someone else and I just can't. You
can't force me to change because of whatever your power
thing Like, I just can't. And I want to stay
here for these students and I want to be the
best teacher that they've ever had, but not at the

expense of you know, truth and what she feels. So
she's she walks out, and I kind of was surprised
because I didn't remember what actually was going to happen.
I thought maybe Haley was going to just go, yeah,
look I didn't. I didn't do what I was told
to do because there is something a little complicated about that,
like that's her boss. That's her boss telling her you're

not allowed to do this, and so I guess technically
she could have said, I disobeyed my employer. I went
against what I was told to do as an employee,
and therefore I'm suffering consequences for it. I mean, I
guess you could have made a case for it. But anyway, sorry,

I'm just babbling through that in my brain.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
No, it's but it does. It gives you that like
yucky taste, and I think it's really interesting because I
could see that it gave you that yucky taste in
your mouth. When Nathan said to Haley, sometimes you gotta
play the game, you were like, no, I don't want to.
This isn't one of those times. And I think there
is something to be said for that, when you have

that sort of intuition and you go, no, this is different.
Something's different. And yeah, I just I loved it, this
whole storyline for you. I love when you get, you know,
the opportunity to be like frustrated and pissed, and I
love that it winds up giving us this like you know,

girls summer camp energy in the studio.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
Yeah, so fun, it's fun. I'm excited to see what
happened with MIA's record too. I don't remember much of
the Mia storyline, so this will be fun to see
what happens. Yeah, and Peyton kind of got a break
in this episode. There wasn't much except for her dealing. Yeah,
she had so much in the previous so much heavy.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Yeah. I was wondering, and I don't know if you remember,
but I was like, what were Hillary and James doing
because they both really really got a break on this one,
and I was like, did they get sent somewhere to
like do something or did they just get lucky and
have a couple of days to like walk around downtown
or go to the beach. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Okay, But speaking of Nathan, I really loved seeing him
out on the river Court with Lucas again. Any time
I see those boys together on the river Court, it
makes me so happy. And it was really fun on
the heels of Lucas and Julian creating these new river
Court memories, but really folding Julian in with everybody.

Speaker 3 (44:15):

Speaker 4 (44:15):
I thought that was a really.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Smart, fun nuanced way of bringing him into the family,
which clearly he was brought in by the next season. Yeah,
I love seeing those boys. Anytime we get to see
those boys on the court, and watching the two of them,
two brothers come to grips with the death of their father,
the impending death of their father, and talking about it

so casually, but also he's bravatas, but it's like, what
do we do with this? We can't we keep going
around and around in this circle with him. I guess
it's over weird.

Speaker 3 (44:51):
Yeah, it's a lot to carry. And I thought I
was really glad that they got to laugh a bit
when Lucas told Nathan had happened. It was it was
the sort of this is ridiculous, comic relief that we
all needed, even as viewers, And then to see them
begin to sink into the heavier bits and then Dan

show up, it felt nice. Yeah, you know it. It
was nice to see them, to your point, trying to
make sense of this thing that makes no sense at
all together.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yeah, yeah, I agree this. I love that this episode
set us up so much for the future. There were
so many doors that opened up in this episode for
what's going to happen next. What's going to happen with
Mia Peyton was set up in the previous episode and
what's going to happen with Haley now no job? What's

going to happen with Brooke and Julian Now he's leaving.
What's going to happen with Sam and.

Speaker 4 (45:54):

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Now that he's throwed it back in the picture and
there's a there's maybe a safer space and that what's
gonna happen with Brooke and Sam? And then with deb
debn Skills both now separating. There's all this open there's
open runway in front of everyone except Dan.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
Yeah, it feels exciting.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
I guess his open runway is the afterlife, whatever that
looks like for Dan Scott his runways. Juliana says, what

is one trend from your teenage years that you wish
would come back? I say, listening to music? Like just
everybody's on their phones now, man, just to get in
the car, go for a drive and put on an
album and listen to the record. Just that's what you're doing.
You're just listening to the to the album together.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Oh, it's so funny that you said that, because I
was gonna say, really, and I know they're wasteful and
I know, but that's thing of you would put on
an album to listen to it from top start to finish.
You would buy a whole album you wouldn't listen to
like songs in a jumbled Spotify playlist of the week

learned by the algorithm. Like I miss putting a CD
in and being like here, yeah, go, because a CD
can't be interrupted by a phone call. You know, when
we listened to music on our phones were also then
just on our phones all the time, and our phones
are designed to keep us on apps and social and

email and texting, and I miss the folks of it.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
I miss when I would put a CD in and
I had my three or four favorite songs, and I
would just listen to those over and over. And then
there were times when I'd put the album in and
I'd kind of forget that it was on because I'd
be doing something else. And then I'd find a song
I had heard before that I kind of thought was boring,
but then I hear it from a new perspective, and
I fell in love with that one, and then I.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
Listen to some of the others.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
It's just a constant gift that keeps on giving, and
now we don't really get that opportunity, which is why
everyone just releases singles instead of albums because we all
have the attention span of a gnat and I miss
it it.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
I do want to just say I absolutely understand the
irony of two women with ADHD talking about how we
have to attention span. But it is a global thing.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Okay, everyone hyper focus. Okay, it's a superpower.

Speaker 3 (48:25):
Yeah. Yeah, That's why one of my love languages is
to unpack for people when they move. I'm like, please,
please give me eight hours of boxes to open.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
It's like, yeah, give me a break from my life.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Oh, it's like cat for me.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Okay, we're spinning a wheel.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
D We're spinning a wheel.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
Well, okay, I read the fan question.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
Go okay, who is most likely to blab their best
friends secret?

Speaker 1 (48:56):
I can't think of anybody in real life, I mean,
character wise, I don't know Rachel.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
I was going to Rachel too, which is funny because
Danielle is such a good, safe vault of a human.
But yeah, I think Rachel had that, especially in the
high school years. Her character had that default of I'm
going to weaponize what I know yet you. So I
think that's probably why I think it's I.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Feel like I could see a world where it's Bevin,
but it's like a character wise yeah, yeah, character wise
but an accident, or like she really is, like she
didn't know it was a secret, or she's trying to
she's trying to help, you know.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
Yeah, yeah, I can see Bevin like saying the secret
again on camera Bevin Yeah, and then being.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Like wait, I thought everybody, well, I'll take those two
because I can't. I can't think of and even if
I could, I wouldn't say it a real life person. No, no, thanks,
we like friends.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
No, we we've been. We've been vaults for a long time.
We shall continue to be. Next up, we have season
six episode nineteen called letting Go.

Speaker 4 (50:13):
Goodbye, can Goodbye?

Speaker 3 (50:15):
See you next week?

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Hey, thanks for listening.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also
follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's Oth.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio dot com.
See you next time.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
We all about that high school drama Girl drama girl,
all about them.

Speaker 1 (50:34):
High school queens.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
We'll take you for a ride at our comic girl
sharing for the right teen.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Drama Queenslease my girl up girl fashion, but your tough

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Girl you could sit with US Girl Drama, Queens Drama,
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