What’s Not to Love? • EP413

While OTH certainly had its episodes where multiple girls were in love with the same guy, we don’t think there’s been a case where three girls have fallen in love with one episode. That is…until now. Hilarie, Joy and Sophia go head over heels for this rewatch. 

Find out what part of the episode they wish had happened IRL, why they want to bring it to Broadway and what incident Hilarie and Sophia couldn’t help but tease Joy about.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
First of all, you don't know me. Were all about
that high school drama, Girl Drama, Girl, all about them
high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in
our comic girl sharing for the drama Queen's Girl Fashion.
But you'll tough, girl. You could sit with us Girl
Drama Queens, Drama Queen's Drawn mc Queen's Drama John mc

(00:21):
Queen's Drama Queens. You guys, we needed this episode so bad. Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, Hey,
Season four. I love this episode is so good. Episode
thirteen Pictures of You. I wish we had all these pictures?
How come we never got copies of these? I know

(00:43):
somebody sent us some presents. Damn it? All right, give
him the synopsis. Grundown ladies, Okay kids. This episode aired
originally February seventh, two thousand seven. A class assignment reveals
the deepest secrets and desires of Luke and the students
at Tree Hill. Hi Lori about college prospects. Antoine turns
to Haley, while Nathan Russell's with deb suicide attempt. Chase

(01:06):
learns that Brooke cheated on her calculus exam. All nudity
and drugs run rampant. In the halls of the school. Surprise, Surprise.
I don't know what it is like the last couple
of weeks, these these synopsis that the plurals, I don't
like them. I'm like, I feel that these are undercutting
the importance of an episode like this. I don't know whatever,

(01:28):
but it has to be titilating to get perhaps so
much more that happened in this episode. This episode is
a testimony to how teenagers talking about their feelings and
just having conversations is great TV. It's interesting, like nothing happened,
Nothing happened happened, guys, it's one class like And that's

(01:51):
the cool thing, you know, when you when you edit
your hour of television for network with commercial breaks, it's
forty three minutes, and and the the teacher of the
coping John Capellas, the custodian from the breakfast Club Iconic
Get for Us, says, you've got forty five minutes. And
it's so cool to have an episode actually take place

(02:13):
in the length of time of episode. I mean, we
could have made this show run forever if every episode
was just like a class period, like the whole season
is just like a couple of days, we would have
been so old by the time senior year would have

(02:35):
been seasons one through ten. Yeah, fine, good. John was
a big get, big, huge, huge get because we all
grew up watching The Breakfast Club and John Hughes movies. Yes,
and Seinfeld, what is your favorite John Hughes movie, because
that was you know, for the kids that watch our
show on streaming right now and they watch our show

(02:56):
is kind of this like retro you know, throw back thing.
For us, it was John Hughes movies, Like I watched
them obsessively in high school to the point that I
joined the John Cryer fan club, and because I loved
Duckie so much from Pretty and Pink. Yes, I didn't

(03:20):
watch John Hughes movies growing up. For me, it was
I was that was like a few years before my time, um,
and so I just was watching. I was either watching
like really old like Turner classic movies, which is kind
of I think probably where your retro love for John
Hughes movies came into, because we all loved stuff that
was older. But yeah, but I don't remember what I

(03:41):
was watching. I didn't start watching John Hughes movies until
I was in my twenties and was like, wait, what
did I miss? I miss? I love I just I did.
I loved them so much and I got into Interestingly enough,
this season of the show. I was watching Breakfast Club
on EPTE and Bevan and I were living together in

(04:03):
l A. She was my roommate in l A. She
was coming back and forth because she was starting to
audition for other stuff because she was doing so well
on our show. And I will just never forget. There
was like a holiday break. I think it was when
I was going home for Thanksgiving and I had the
flu and I got home and just crawled on my
couch and turned on The Breakfast Club. My mom brought
me soup and I was like, I'm miserable, but this

(04:25):
is also my best day. And I watched The Breakfast
Club twice, just like back to front, and I was
like playing again. My favorite one was Curly Sue, though,
if I had to pick, like, I think that's just
because that was the one that he made during our
actual era. Everything else was made. Yeah. Oh, I totally
didn't even know that. I've never seen that one. Oh

(04:50):
my gosh, Jim Belushi and Kelly Lynch Okay, great, she's
she's this little orphan like a con artist. It's great, okay, dude.
Watching John Hughes movies as an adult with my pre
teen child has been an eye opener because, like you, Sophia,

(05:12):
I have, it's all warm and fuzzy. It's like, these
movies are my childhood. I love him so much. And
then you sit down and you watch you know, Pretty
and Pink with a little boy, and he's like The
Breakfast He's like, this movie is disgusting, the way they
objectify the school and the fact that she picks that
rich bull over ducky. Like my child was mad. Like

(05:34):
three quarters of the way through the movie, he's like,
I love this. Last quarter he's like, this is stupid.
I hate it. I watched The Breakfast Club with him
at the beginning of the school year because I thought
it would be a cool way to kick off middle school,
like seventh grade and wrong. Wrong. He was so grossed
out by everything that they did to Molly Ringwald and

(05:56):
then the bad makeover they gave Ali shetty at the
end where they took her from me the Weirdo and
made her look like a middle aged grandma Frosting. Yeah,
and so it's kind of um It's kind of strange
to look at this episode, which is so deeply based
on the Breakfast Club, and I think this one holds up.

(06:17):
You know, it's not quite as quite as gross. They're
not not I and I will say, I think what's
interesting is you look, you realize that as every decade passes,
you look back on your warm and fuzzies and you go, oof,
that didn't that didn't age great? Okay, But I think
the overarching idea to Joy's point is that kids talking

(06:40):
about their feelings, trying to find their way, however flawed
those movies look to us now, however flawed certain episodes
of our show look to us now. I mean, god, Joy,
we had a field day with last week's episode. Oh
and then this comes we missed you. We were just
like this is scary. Um. You know, then you get

(07:01):
to an episode like this and it's like, this is
the best of what it can be and absolutely and
these all of these kids trying to find their place,
trying to do their best, trying to figure out, you know,
who they are when no one's looking, and what they
can say when barely anyone is around. Like it's beautiful

(07:22):
metering sing it maybe that's what's fixing. It is teenagers
sitting around talking about their feelings. Because the Breakfast Club,
which took place in the eighties, is talking about how
they cannot relate to their parents who grew up in
the sixties and seventies, and then our show is taking
place in the early two thousand's talking about how we
don't understand the grown ups in the world around us

(07:43):
that existed in the eighties. And so maybe this new
incarnation of teenagers sitting around talking about what nightmares we
are and dissecting shows like ours is incredibly helpful because
with each generation of teenagers that come through, hopefully the
conversation is getting more on and like making everyone, um
more empathetic to each other. Yeah, I that was a

(08:07):
major That was a huge Probably the overarching theme of
this episode is empathy because it made me that moment
at the end when Lucas walked up to Glenda's car,
it really got me. It made me emotional. Um, just
being able to put yourself in the shoes of someone

(08:27):
who you don't normally spend time with her, whose eyes
you don't normally look through. Um, there was something so
beautiful about that, And I hope that It seemed like
at the end of this episode, if I was a
teenager and watching this, it would make me want to
go to school the next day and reach across to
somebody that was really different from me, who I didn't
normally interact with. It's such a cool idea for an assignment,

(08:49):
you know, the the icebreaker of it all makes that possible.
And I I loved Lucas and Glenda. I loved it,
like and by the way, there was a moment where
I was thinking, like, these are the scenes I wanted
to see last week between Lucas and Peyton. Yes, how jealous.
I I'm like, look, how where are you? Look how

(09:09):
much fun they're having just talking to each other. It
looks so nice. It was such a good storyline. And
and yeah, the way they bridge that divide as these
two characters. And you see, you know from the Jimmy
Edwards episode in season three, who she is becoming in
the way she is kind of hiding herself. And at

(09:31):
first she says that that's out of anger and dismissal,
and then she admits it's a little out of fear.
And I don't know, there's something in the way that
they're able to open up to each other. Maybe because
I think we said this a few episodes ago, maybe
it's a little lower stakes when it's someone who doesn't
know you as well. But oh man, I love the
hand highlight. We finally got Lucas is a goth. I

(09:52):
mean begging for this for weeks and we got it.
We were the leader to seeing all the makeup on
the ground and I'm like, yes, yes, hold on it.
And it was like a split second. I needed to
live in like deep eyeliner Lucas more than a split second. Definitely,
I wanted more. I wanted like the nail polish on
the eyeliner. I could have done without, like whatever they

(10:13):
put in his hair, but you know whatever, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I'm not the department head. It's not my job. Amber
Wallace deserves a huge show because she really did such
a great job carrying this episode. You know, her portion
of this episode. To come in as a recurring guest star.
She was not a part of our normal family, and

(10:34):
so to be able to have her come in and
carry that weight on a level playing field with everybody else,
um was really impressive. Um. I thought she was so
understated and honest in her performance, and she brought out
the best in Chad too. He did such a nice job.
You could tell that he really trusted her, And that's

(10:55):
unusual for a lead in a series with a with
a guest that comes in because we have so many
people that rotate through. It can feel hard to fully
trust an actor who you don't know very well when
you get a constant rotation of people. And it's a
real testimony to her abilities. So I just wanted to
give her a shout out because she's great, absolutely, and

(11:16):
they had such a good chemistry And I love again,
you know, this notion that it's so important to talk
and get vulnerable to figure out where you are on
your journey. I love seeing chemistry between two characters like
these that isn't laced with sexual attention. Yeah, because so

(11:36):
much of it is. And it's like, oh god, I
want more of this. I want more scenes like this. Yea,
beyond their their sexuality, people are interesting. Yeah, what's so
funny though? The boys get to do that all the time.
Like Lucas had his friend that girl he met out
on the basketball Corps. He and Daniella got to have
like a platonic thing once she was like, we're not

(11:57):
working out. Um, Hayton and Lucas were platonic for a
very long time. Uh, and he's platonic here. He's platonic
with Haley, Like he gets to do that all the time.
And Nathan also gets to do that a lot of
the time. But for characters like Brook, you know or
not really Peyton's good nightmare. Um, but like Brook and

(12:22):
Rachel and the other girls, mouth is the only one
they're platonic with, and literally everyone else is like just
laced within you end out. And I wish that everyone
had gotten those platonic relationships because of the things that
I've maintained from my high school experience. I mean, you
guys know, I'm friends with all my friends from high school,
and it's because we were all like pals and grew

(12:45):
up together. And I don't know, I wish the girls
had more opportunity to lean into that. I do too.
You're not gonna have to kiss everybody, And you know
what I like about you bringing that up? Is it
in a way that what Shelly is talking about. In
this episode, Liz's whole storyline revolves around Shelly saying, I

(13:06):
don't know why I have to either be a radical
virgin or a slut. I'm just a girl and I
like I like boys, and I'm nerdy and I'm excitable
and sometimes I feel awkward, and and it's that's that's
the truth. Like there seemed to be this really kind
of extreme um spectrum for for all the girls. It

(13:30):
was like you wanted to sleep with everybody, or you
slept with nobody, And it's like, that's kind of not
real point. It's funny that it's so ironic though, that
they were writing that for her and trying to make
that the point, and yet her photo at the end
was so sexualized, and so that was something that would
belong in Maxim magazine, a photo of a top on

(13:52):
it says teen, you know what I mean what we say,
don't look at what we do. That's kind of I
was like, where they nail the photos with everybody except her,
that was the only one. I thought, Yeah, we could
have represented that better. I mean, even if she was
just standing in a white T shirt, like what in
the middle of a I don't know what it what

(14:12):
is it like a normal sitting at a desk, I
don't know. I don't know what do you think I
I don't know, it would have been I think what
would have been really cool? And maybe we just didn't
have the capabilities with the tiny cannon elf that we
were taking photos on at this era, But I would
have loved to have seen if they had split screened it,

(14:34):
So if you had given her half of that photo
and half of a photo of her in the clean
teen shirt and the jeans, and like, I like the
idea that she's like, no, I'm both of these things.
But but to go from you know, me as a
clean teen and here's my wild side. I was like,
I kind of feel like the point of her conversation

(14:54):
is I run. I run the length of this spectrum. Actually,
and all all girls do. We have the easy She
should have been wearing her clean teen shirt, but like
cut off the clean part, so it just seventeen, yeah,
with the so easy exactly exactly cut clean teen into

(15:15):
a crop top since those were a big deal then
because we were all miss in the top half of
our plants, lean into the two thousand seven style and
like say both aims. Leave it a teen, just teen,
just standing there with a backpack slung over her shoulder
by one of the trees on the campus in a
teen shirt. Yeah, it would have been really cool. Okay, okay,
we rewrote it. In my memory, it's different. You know

(15:39):
what I did love though, enjoy You weren't You weren't
with us last week. But Liz was saying how much
she really enjoyed filming that whole sequence with Lee, that
the Shelly and Mouth storyline, that that despite everything going
on behind the scenes, filming with him, she felt really
safe and protected and that that scene was really fun.

(16:01):
And I love knowing that that, you know, despite us
looking at it and going, okay, they really they took
it real far in the writer's room, that that they
were able to have like a really great positive experience
together is nice to know they had great chemistry. I
love that that when they're walking out on the edge

(16:22):
of the quad and they're both they both have their
hands in their pockets and their shoulders are kind of
up and they're just walking side by side, but they're
not touching what they want to hold hands like that
killed me, the way they were mimicking each other's body language.
I love these two. Yeah, it felt like doing theater
this episode because we all we all would work like

(16:42):
two or three days with just our person, and we
got to do longer scenes and it really felt like
scene study with just one partner, and we didn't get
to do that very often. Normally our world is so
like there's eight hundred extras and you're on the quad
odd and it's chaotic. And the fact that we all
just got to do scene work, it was a nice,

(17:05):
relutely right that in fact, you could take that entire
episode and put it on stage, different vignyettes in different areas,
and it would live on its own. It could totally
live on its own. You don't need to know any
of the characters, because they say everybody explains everything about
themselves to each other, so the whole episode lives on

(17:28):
its own as a play, even if you don't know
any of the characters. We have to do this in
high school somewhere, we should what's our new honey Grove um. Also,
I love that You're like, let's do it at a
high school, and I'm like, let's take it to Broadway.
I'm like this, I actually think this would be like incredible.

(17:58):
Let's talk about let's talk about our characters. I loved
Sophia watching Brooke um, be honest and vulnerable and not
getting anything out of it like she I don't know
that she normally does. That's not like a comparison, but
it was just nice to see someone do that. But
she was just so real and honest with him, and

(18:20):
at the risk of losing something that she she did
really like this guy. I mean, okay, it has been
like a day, but you know they how long does
she know him? Like three days? Yea. But for her,
those emotions felt really big, and it's so scary every
time you get a new opportunity, Um, it's scary to
risk it. Mm hmm. And something I loved about it

(18:42):
is that it's really the first time that you begin
to understand more about her in her life. And it's
such a great scene because this is true for so
many people. Chase when she admits that she feels like
she's not enough And I said this while we were watching.
I said, you know, it's the only time I'm glad
that the boss like betrayed my trust because that was

(19:05):
a conversation that we had had and I remember, I
remember getting the script and feelings, so I just felt
like naked. What was the conversation? Would you were you
just about how you felt to yeah, take our sort
of most personal stories and then would use them in
the show. And for me, it had been so hard,

(19:29):
and it had been long before this too, to admit
feeling that way and to then see it come around
in the script, I was just like, oh no, yeah,
without getting a phone call of like, yeah, you know,
that was really inspiring to me. I feel like we
can use that with Brooke and a lot of girls
will relate to this. Whatever that there was no warning,

(19:51):
and especially now we're at the point where we knew
we couldn't trust our boss, so it's like, oh God,
I shared something with you before I knew I couldn't
trust you, and now you're using it against But it's
truly the only time I will ever say I'm so
happy my confidence was betrayed, because this is such a
powerful moment. And what I love seeing about it is

(20:12):
that as she admits this, Chase is like, what are
you talking about? And he lists all of the accomplishments
that everyone on the outside sees, and she gets to
say without saying it, that's performance. I'm expected to be
perfect in my house and it doesn't matter. Nobody cares
about me. Nobody calls me, nobody supports me, nobody asks

(20:34):
me if I'm okay. So I show up and I
do my best and it doesn't matter. And it's such
a beautiful representation of, you know, the old adage like
money doesn't buy happiness, success doesn't buy happiness. You never
know what's really going on with someone, so be kind
and and to have this girl explain that to everyone else,

(20:58):
what makes her look like a six story is just
like weight on her shoulders and it and she feels small. Oh.
I loved it. I loved learning that having to give
myself permission to say that. As this episode aired and
the mail started coming in, and it still comes in,

(21:19):
and people send that photo over and over and over again,
and they say, this is how I feel. That's such
a universal truth, is so iconic, it's like generationally iconic.
It's one of those photos that anywhere you are, if
you see that, you know exactly what that is and
what that moment is and what that represents. Was really

(21:39):
exciting to see that come to life because I don't much.
I don't know. I feel like I did watch this episode,
but it's been fifteen years. I liked Brooks level of embarrassment. Um,
do you know when you've been confronted with some of
your own bullsh and you have to make the choice
of like denying it or admitting it or turning it

(22:05):
into a tool, like, actually, don't be mad at me.
You should really feel sorry for me because the reason
I lied is this, you know, book just kind of
sits in this puddle of embarrassment in a way where
it's like, you know what I did up and it
and you want to know what's worse because I've stup

(22:26):
some more and here's some more stuff that maybe you
didn't know about me, and why don't we just get
it all? Like, like to sit in your own embarrassment
is a sign of emotional maturity that it took me
a minute to like figure out what exactly I was
watching because when she's sitting in the classroom and she's

(22:47):
talking about her parents and all this stuff, I was like,
what is this? You know, is Brooke trying to I couldn't.
I couldn't really put my finger on it. But that's
what it is. It's embarrassment. It's like I'm just going
to say all the things because if you're already out
the door. I don't have to worry about you dumping
me again because you've pretty much don't me earlier today.

(23:07):
But we are still stuck together for the next five minutes,
so let's just let's just let it out. Um. Yeah,
being embarrassed is like the worst, especially at that age.
And yeah, yeah, to have someone like see through all
your hard work. I worked so hard at this veneer.

(23:28):
Um and this boy is in town for five minutes. Yeah,
any tracks it. And I think there's something really powerful too.
You know, for parentified children who grow up being trained
to be perfectionists, it's very easy to to bolster your image,

(23:48):
to tell a little white lie that feels like it's
not important, but to your point. When somebody goes will
but you lied to me and you realize how that
makes someone feel, you can see her wheels turning of Oh,
I've been pretending to be perfect for so long that
I haven't paid attention to what it's cost me, and

(24:10):
it's just cost me you well, very similarly to Lucas
and Glenda, it's like there's a in a deeper way
obviously for Brooke and Chase, but not much. It's only
been a date. It's like, well, I don't know you
that well, so I might as well. You know what,
cool we're here. I'm just gonna I'm gonna lay it
all out. I'm gonna practice honesty. Yeah, it's so good.

(24:32):
It's good for the soul. I saw that in um
Bevin and Rachel too. There was something so honest. First
of all, what a great performance Bevin gave at the
end that scene that lead up just getting to that
place where she was just patient, just sitting there waiting,
letting Rachel's spin and act out and do all her craziness,

(24:53):
and then finally standing up at the end and mean
like all right, it's my turn to talk now, so good,
pivoting right back into pleasantness. It's like, I'm gonna I'm
gonna tell you exactly what I think and then I'm
gonna get back to business because I am an adult,
I'm a professional. I'm gonna, you know again, emotional maturity.

(25:13):
I can tell you what I think and not throw
a temper tantrum about it. And now we're moving on.
That's right, that's right. Isn't that funny that Bevin, who
is so sort of seems like wild and fun and
kind of did see and cute and whatever and like, oh,
she's gonna be just fine. But that she's got she
actually has a solid head on her shoulders, and she's
like got the over over. I am bird's eye view

(25:35):
of things that we used to think Rachel had, but
where she can sort of look over all of it
and go all right, this will be over soon. I'll
be somewhere else. I'll just let if you need to
be crazy, I'll I'm happy to sit in the bimbo
slot for a little while and let you be. It's
actually a super alpha move to just sit back and
let the other people spin because they need to and

(25:56):
not have to step in all the time. Well, but
don't you find that is kind of exactly what our
relationships from our youth are. Like you pick your role
and then it doesn't matter how many decades go by,
you fall right back into that role. And so if
this little group of chicks needs Bevin, you know, to
play the bimbo like you said, okay, I can do that.

(26:20):
If you need me to play a different part one day,
I can. But it's not actually threatening her identity, Like
she knows who she is, so stepping into a role
for someone else to make it easier for someone else
to figure out who they are. That's really cool to
be able to just go okay, if that's what you need,
go ahead, I know who I am, so I can float. Yeah.

(26:40):
It requires such a supreme amount of confidence, and it's cool.
With all these people in this episode, we're we're getting
to peek behind the curtain. Some are, you know, the
initial peaks, and some are these deeper dives into people
we think we know really well, and now we're learning
about a whole another level. And so amazing with her storyline,

(27:03):
we think we know exactly who feminin and then she's like,
oh no, there's so much going on in here, but
you guys all seem really stressed. So I make and
like are you okay? And you just go oh, Like
she's she's laughing at everybody else. I didn't even Nevin
is the one person who has parents on our show. Yeah,

(27:24):
probably goes home to a mom and a dad and
like maybe an older brother or something does do By
the way, he just told the Skills has a family.
He's a he's fine, he's all right. All the kids
that have parents are fine, they're doing great, God, and
they're and they're dating each other. By the way, it's
like the healthy kids find each other and they're like,
we don't want to mess with this other train wreck

(27:44):
over here. Yeah, we just stay together. Um. Speaking of skills,
like you two magic magic magic. You had fun and
it was like you ate up the impression scene, ate
it up. Oh my god, doing scarface with your crutches

(28:05):
so funny. We had a blast. Did they give you
a list of people to impersonate or you just like
mad up? I think they asked me, well, the al
Pacino thing was there, but then they were like, do
you have other impressions? Like do as many as you
can think of? So I did, because I don't know.
I did Katie Holmes, and then I think I did
a Drew Barrymore that didn't get in, which is so

(28:26):
crazy because like, I am actually really in love with
Drew Barrymore and I love doing impressions of her because anyway,
but it didn't get in. And then I don't know
what the other one was. Oh yeah, Mary, Kate Nashley.
But Chad did such a great job with the impressions too.
He threw himself fully into those, so he cracked me

(28:48):
up and it's so funny when Glenda thinks that scalam
is Elmo just like undercuts because he does such a
good impression of it and you just see him to
late and like, obviously it's written, but god, it's so
so funny. No, it's good. We got to do stuff
that we didn't normally get to do. And I think

(29:09):
that's who were you guys impersonating? I didn't it was
it was right when Umhor. I hadn't seen Borat, but
James was obsessed with it, and so James was asked, like,
who can you impersonate? And he was like, we're doing
this and I'm just like, yes, yes, And it was

(29:32):
before we had iPhones, so I couldn't like look it up.
I didn't know. And I was like, so just tell
me what to say and I'll say it exactly the
way you want me to say it. That was That
was on James. It's also cute watching Peyton and Nathan

(29:55):
doing the same impression back and forth, because you it's
like sibling energy. Yeah, it's so silly and nerdy and
sweet and and it's like it's almost a full circle.
When we talk about how Lucas and Glenda and Brooke
and Chase are able to get really vulnerable with each
other because they don't know each other that well. Yet

(30:16):
there's an inverse that happens with Peyton and Nathan where
it's like, you know each other so well, you've seen
each other through so many things that you become the
only person besides Haley that he tells about his mom.
You've settled into this almost sibling like energy, which can

(30:37):
happen with like, you know, the first person you ever
fall in love with when you're young. Years later you're
like we're bros. Like that's that dork, Like oh my god,
and they say the same thing about you, and you
guys personify that energy, you know, even when he's trying
to be like we were good and you're like, we
were the worst. Look at my hand, it's broken, Like

(30:58):
it's all so great trying to figure out that bit too.
But it comes full circle because this idea that that
Nathan is a martyr. He starts off this little experiment
by being like, hey, so I carved your initials into
these weight plates and like we were good, right, And
it's like he's playing a part. He's like he's like,

(31:20):
we gotta do this thing together, and I do care
about you, Peyton, Like I know you've been through a
lot lately, so I'm gonna say this. I'm gonna say
this flowery thing. And we've watched Nathan do that all season,
like I can't commit to a school because my wife's
not here, and I'm gonna try really hard to be
the good guy with Rachel and my parents are nightmares.
But he's been trying to say all these flowery things

(31:44):
because it makes the people he loves feel good, right,
And he tries to do it with Peyton in this
episode and she laughs in his face and it's like
cut the ship, like ah no, and and and I
think that's what the whole just is. It's like, I know,
you're trying to be captain of the team for every

(32:06):
situation in your life. You want to be team captain
for your wife, for your parents, for your sibling, for
your friends, such a good way to put it, for everybody.
You don't have to be my team captain, man, I
know you're a cup I have the broken knuckle to
prove it, you know. And I think we also in
our lives feel a lot of pressure to be grand

(32:27):
or super present or just like be a lot for everyone. Um,
and so I appreciate the patents in my life that
are like, hey, I know you're a nightmare, like stop
you don't put it down, put it down. And so
I liked the patent. Got tasked with that message of
like hmm, yeah, like you exist, you matter, you need

(32:51):
to take up space. Yeah, you should have picked the
college you wanted to go to. Nathan like like, have
a moment, let it be yours. You just her to
take care of yourself. And that's a nice message. And
it's so cool to see again when we think about
all of this chemistry we normally don't get to see.
We see so much chemistry between Haley and Nathan, the

(33:13):
love story and the romance and the thing we've all,
you know, loved the whole time. We're seeing. We've seen
all the chemistry with Peyton and Lucas that they've pretended
to deny for so long, and now we're getting the payoff,
seeing a typical chemistry Halian skills Peyton and Nathan, like
growing out, being confidence for each other, being sweet but

(33:34):
having no again, no sexual tension under it. It's so
interesting to watch it. Sure is what do you think Peyton.
That was the one because Peyton was really servicing Nathan's
storyline at a lot, like really, you know, pushing him forward.
But I don't feel like we talked about Peyton enough
enough really in this episode or a lot. You know.

(33:58):
I guess we've we've been focused so much on her
as the person that has to cry in every episode.
I loved her ostrich mentality in this It's like, oh,
you want me to talk about my feelings, Like, here's
what's not going to happen. It's like, I don't do
what I've been doing. But also, um, I think Peyton

(34:20):
knew that if she got into her own it would
end up being like not a pissing match between her
and Nathan, but there's a level of competition she knows
exists between the two of them. That's why their relationship
was volatile. Um like, oh, your family sucks, well, my
family sucks more. And uh, I like that she acknowledged

(34:42):
what he was dealing with with his mom, and then,
rather than let that conversation spiral as it very well
could have, she just changed the subject to whistling, Like
how I alleviate this? You know, we all have to
get through the day, sometimes it's not worth going down

(35:03):
that dark path, like sometimes we just have to keep
it light. Um. Yeah. I like that Payton finally got
to do that because historically she's the one that's like,
oh there's something to cry about, let's go dig in.
I also like that because they've really been she's really
been holding space for him to share. She's given him

(35:27):
that beautiful advice don't be haunted, like Dan, don't be haunted.
Messed me up. That hit me so hard and I
and I feel like, in the face of what he
shares about his mom, I like seeing her be a
teenage girl that is like, I am not equipped for this,
Like I've given you my my deepest advice and and

(35:50):
now you have so much on your plate. I think
the best thing I can do for you is make
you laugh. Like Peyton is not the one that's generous
when he says I wish that I was relieved to
hear that my mom might die. Payton just lost both moms,
Like the girl with two dead moms is not the

(36:12):
one you tell like wish my mom was dead. And
so rather than give him like a speech about it,
the gift of the Painton gives is like, you know what,
we're gonna We're gonna just put this away. That's right,
she's she's flipping the pancake. She's just gonna turn it
right over. Yeah. Again, emotional maturity work, racious of her,

(36:39):
very gracious. Can I mean, how many times in your
life if you had to do that when someone says
something to you that's just so insensitive and so you
just looked them right in the face and you're like,
we're going to talk about something else, because I just
I don't know it in me, especially in our industry
where we know it's like eighteen hours a day on set,
you and me, huh, okay, well I could pick a fight,

(37:02):
or I could make a joke, and I'm going to
make a joke right now. You know what if you
feel it though, because I've been on the other end
of that too, where I've said stupid things and then
you see that the look wash over someone's face and
then you see them switch the conversation and be really
generous with you and still kind and then just keep
moving on. But it sticks in your crush. You're like,

(37:23):
oh my god, I feel like such an idiot, and
then you carry you think about it that night and
the next day and overthinking it's almost better to just
be be nice and move on because it'll just keep
haunting that person later. It's cruel. Um. Had you gotten
to work with Antoine much before? No, And I was
so happy we finally got time together. We've got great

(37:46):
chemistry together on camera, and we always get along really well.
He's just easy to act with, easy to talk with.
Aund he is and when you're acting with him, he
really listens, He sense to what you're saying and he responds,
and usually his response is some version of the line,
but sometimes it's not, and that's what it really does.

(38:11):
I mean, I love the idea that your scenes together
this episode informed past and future because we can totally
visualize elementary school skills and Haley like in the same
class with Lucas like pound around Bodorco's. But we're also
getting the foreshadowing of him being a huge influence in

(38:32):
Jamie's life. Yeah, both things are accomplished in these scenes
that you guys have. That's right, and it's so nice
to get some of the depth for skills too. I
love when you get exposition about a character that doesn't
feel like exposition. Yeah, none of this episode did, which
is kind of a miracle, and there was so much

(38:54):
backstory and none of it felt like and then my
parents said to me, you know, and and it was
so cool to learn about his fears and his family
and his dreams and and his his real worry that
if he didn't get a scholarship. That was kind of it.
That was wrap. That scene made me immediately burst into tears.

(39:17):
Me too. When you read that letter, I was like, oh,
there he goes. It was beautiful and the misdirect was
so good and like him, I'm like literally tearing up
again theater about oh my god, him telling you how
messed up it is. Yeah, and be like that's dark,
Like it was so sweet, but knowing how much was
writing on that for him, Yeah, the way of that,

(39:40):
how that would have felt to to really accept, like, Okay,
it's just not in the cards for me the dream
that I wanted. And Lucas has had a dream too,
by the way, the basketball, and you know the idea
of having to give up one dream and here's the
second one and if this doesn't work out, it's going
to be really hard to find a third. Dreams are

(40:01):
such a big deal when you're in high school. They
are they are at any point in life, but it
seems like they get harder to reach for the older
you get. And um, I liked what this teacher was
saying about. You know, you get a chance to reinvent
yourself only so many times in life. You're about to
go do it right now, think about who you are,
what your dreams are, what you want to be. I

(40:24):
also really liked the reality check of some of you
will feel free when you leave here, and for some
of you will be very hard. You know, that's that's
really nice And to your point, he'll like this idea
that we're all supposed to just kind of play our
role and how when you're around people you've grown up with,

(40:44):
it can be really easy to fall back into those roles.
And you know, we talked about this a couple of
episodes ago about friend breakups. Sometimes when your role changes,
people really don't like it. They don't want you to grow,
they don't want you to be different. And then you
figure out, you know, is this a moment of growing pains?
Like am I going to go and create new relationships

(41:06):
with people that are gonna allow me to be this bigger, better,
version of myself and it's it's it's all represented in
this episode without having to specifically say it, and that
is my favorite kind of story. Yeah, I like the freedom.
You know, so many times when we talk about reinventing ourselves,

(41:28):
it's about being a louder, more outgoing version of ourselves,
and for me, it's been the exact opposite. Like I
was a performative young person, and the friendships that I've
cultivated as an adult have been ones where I'm allowed
to be not the decision maker and like the passive

(41:48):
one and the quiet the follower. Like I get to
be the follower and I feel very taken care of
in those relationships because it's filling a need that you know,
was a void for so long. Um. And so this
idea that some of our characters are also doing that,
It's like certain characters are going out and being bolder,

(42:09):
but then other characters, like Lucas. Lucas is letting Glenda
be like the leader in this conversation, be the sharer,
be the one that like sets the tone about sharing
and things like that. Like I like that he kind
of falls into a more passive position. Um. I like

(42:31):
the patent falls into a more passive position of just
like I'm going to center you here, let you be center. Um. Yeah,
it's not always about getting out and getting loud and
bold and things like that. Sometimes blossoming means like turning inward,
and so I like the both sides of that are
represented here. M hm. You know what when you talk

(42:54):
about that, how we're centering each other's experiences in new ways.
I also really like that this is one of the
first times I feel like we've seen Haley grapple with
the weight of what it means to be a pregnant
teenager to say, like, I'm excited to meet my son,
and what's going to happen to me, what's going to

(43:15):
happen to my dreams? You know you you say I
wrote it down, you say, I still want to leave
my mark on this world. And and it's so nice
to see her really hold the reality, not just the fantasy,
to say I'm feeling all of these things at the
same time, and I'm scared. It's a beautiful vulnerability. Yeah.

(43:39):
I loved it. Also the sort of the normalization of it,
that it's just this is just real life, Like sometimes
girls get pregnant in high school, and then they got
to deal with how to if they want to keep
their baby, if they you know, how they're going to
handle this? What what are you gonna do? And not
having everybody around her get a problem. It's just normal,

(44:02):
Like everybody's like, okay, hey, let's pregnant. Okay, and she
moves on and everybody supports her and it's all good.
And I love that And I loved seeing her have
that kind of system around her with the friends that
she's chosen. So now she can really just settle into Okay,
what does this mean for me? Now? It's not a
massive torture about oh my god, I'm a pregnant teenage girl.

(44:24):
It's okay, I'm a pregnant teenage girl. What happens next?
What's the next chapter gonna what is my life going
to be? Yeah? What do I And And there's there's
a fear, but there was an excitement there too that
it's something that is um it's not when I say normalized,
it is out of the norm for most of the population.
But in terms of like her just not feeling alone,

(44:51):
that's special. To feel alone special. Yeah. Well, and by
the way, regardless of what age, women become mothers. That's
the key, right, is you either have a community that
supports you and you're having an incredible experience because ps,
we've got enough friends who have done it, you two included.
It's hard. So you either have a support system and

(45:15):
you have people who hold you through the herd and
who enable the happy to multiply, or you feel alone
and it is terrifying. Yes, and it's it's you're right.
It's really lovely to see that the people in her life,
knowing she's made her decision, are like, how can we
support you? What joy? Did you feel that way when

(45:38):
you were pregnant in real life? I mean, I feel
like there's kind of this thing in storytelling in our country.
I can't speak to any other countries where there's this
drumbeat of like, if you become pregnant, no matter the age,
if you become pregnant, you have to start over or
the trajectory you were on has to pause and if

(46:01):
you can get back on track, you know, it's there's
some ketchup work to do. Like I've just so I
was scared both of my pregnancies the way that Haley
is scared, where it's like, yeah, I'm super pumped up
having a baby. Also, there's like things that come with that,
you know, Um, hold on, can we talk about the stomach?

(46:23):
Can we talk about the baby? I can't decide if
I think that it's our honorable or our dishonorable mention,
Like okay, our friends at home. In this gorgeous sequence
of scenes with Joy and Antoine, Haley and Skills are
up on the roof. They're having this moment and she's

(46:44):
laying down. The blocking is so good. The blocking is
so good and casual and and you like, you take
a little stretch, and someone in the edit bay didn't
zoom in on the screen, which you can do in
the edit. People like they can go, oh something, there's
a boom in the corner of the shot. Let's zoom

(47:05):
in to cut it out. And Joy lifts her arms
over her head and there's the pregnancy belly pad just
out front and sad all it's glory and not only
the like part that goes down around your hips, but
the center padding with the stitching around it, like you
see the whole thing down to the stitch lines. It

(47:27):
was a man. You know it was a man because
he's like, no, she's wearing a tanktown. That's a tanktown.
It's like that's for sure, and you're like, that's definitely
not what that is that awkwards like not white, not
flesh colored, pale yellow banks or underwear. But except for
the padding, it was just so clearly. Yeah, I'm really
surprised nobody caught that, Like nobody just punched in on

(47:50):
the shot. It's because you're blocking was so good looking.
At if you have is that you your physicality is
not performative, like you know, just how to take up
space in a scene in a really natural way. And
so of course you laid down on that big like
concrete block or whatever the hell you were on, just

(48:10):
kind of laid out and you were doing like cat stretches,
which is what pregnant women too. And they're like stretching
is too good. Like we have another take where we
can't see the baby pad, but we don't have the
stretching in that one, so stick to the wrapped it
out whatever. Okay, honorable mentioned to my baby belly pad.

(48:30):
Then baby belly. Well, we have some listener questions, guys.
That went by so fast. That episode went by so fast.
I want to like, I want to watch this one again.
All right, me too good? All right. Our listener question

(48:53):
from Brianna. I noticed conversations going on in the background
with main cast members. Are you all really talking or
just moving your mouth? How does it work as being
a background extra, especially when it's a main cast member.
It's an interesting question. It depends on the day. I mean,
sometimes you've been there so long and you have nothing
to talk about, so you just say watermelon, watermelon, watermelon,

(49:15):
over and over again, and it looks like you're talking.
And then sometimes you're having real conversations with people and
you just mouth it. You have it quietly so they
can't because you can't make noise. But that I think
is part of why when it's us, especially, you get
great background acting because you're just mouthing to each other

(49:35):
and sometimes that makes you laugh, but you have to
laugh silently, and then it makes the other person laugh
because you know that you can't make noise. And if
if you've got twenty background actors who all think they're whispering,
they're very loud on the mic, like the microphones can
hear everything. So especially when it's us in the background,

(49:56):
we're really serious about not making noise because we do
not want to do another take because we're being irresponsible
in the background of somebody else's shot. But I think
I think that can actually make for the best background
acting because you're just like, what the are you saying?
What is that word? Yeah, I'm gonna promise you. I
am always talking when I am like extra, if I'm

(50:18):
in the background of your scene, I am talking, And
I delight in it because that's like the one time
where people's focuses elsewhere, they're like focused on the people
who are actually doing the scene work, and I'm like, Okay,
here's what we're gonna do now. Now we're gonna tell secrets. Yes,
what I love being background and scenes like that, and

(50:40):
like I might have more of a sense memory about
doing that stuff than about doing the actual scenes, just
sitting in the background being hey, oh wait, we need
to give an honorable mention to Billy, your brother who's
in the bathroom. Funny, I forgot about that. That was
about the time that like Billy had a crush on her,

(51:00):
and I think that they threw him that bone just
so they could be in the same scene together. Like
there was a point where I definitely wanted Bevan to
date my brother because I was just like, oh, this
would be so cool, Christmas would be so fun. Related
it didn't work out. It didn't work out. Um, but yeah,
Billy had a crush on her for a while there,
and I think that they just thought they were being

(51:22):
real cute throwing him in there at the urinal with her.
They gave him a shot. We've got one more question
from Liz. She says, if you could play a male
character from the show, who would it be? And why?
Dan Always it's just dance the guy. You know, he's
got the media storyline. It's so fun. Um. My first
instinct was Nathan, Yeah, I want to play Lucas like

(51:47):
I do because because a lot of reasons, he got
paid the most and and a lot money. Uh no,
but also I think that Lucas had some really interesting
things to do and and yeah, I yeah, and I

(52:08):
just want to brood. That's it, Like I can only
relate to Emo characters. Yeah, I was gonna say, would
you would you want to play him even more Emo? Yes? Yes,
oh yeah. Not only would he be like we're an eyeliner,
but he'd be We're in like the used T shirts.
T shirts and you know, like sad sad bands. He'd
like love Paramore, you know, Oh my gosh, what a

(52:30):
singer she is, though have voice. We're spinning, let's do it.
What do I have this week? Oh my god? Who
is the most likely to move in with you? I mean,
you did have people move in with you? I always

(52:52):
have people move in with me. I just want to
live on a commune. I want to live with all
my best friends. Bevin lived with you. Who else lived
with you? Bevan lived with me, Um Daniello was with
me like most weekends. Uh Lee was with Bevan and
I in l A a lot. Yeah, I just I
love I love having people around. Jenny, my best friend,

(53:13):
moved in with me Um when we were still doing
the show. The whole reason that Jensen and Danielle set
me up with Jeffrey is to get me off their couch.
Like I had posted up in their l A house
and Jensen was like, I only get to see my
girlfriend on the weekends. You can't be here, Go away away.

(53:33):
And I also I did the same thing to Elizabeth
on wah Uh. I have that little sister energy where
I'm like could come over over. I you were very
similar in that way. I feel like I have the
big sister energy where everyone moves in with me. But
that's my dream come true. Like last weekend, I woke
up on a Sunday morning. I had gone to a

(53:53):
friend's birthday the night before. I had made a plan
to get bagels with my friends, and they apparently had
gotten up very early and gone and gotten through the
line because like a there's a line at at our
favorite bagel store, the lines can be like two hours long,
and and they had gotten through the line so fast
for some weird reason that they were like, well, she

(54:15):
hasn't texted yet. We'll just go over and everybody is
a key to my house. So I woke up. People. Oh,
I woke up to three friends sitting in the guest
room with coffees and bagels. And ten minutes after I
woke up, four more people walked in the door, and
I was like, this is the best day of my life.
This is the best day. Like all my people are here,
were in pajamas. This is all I want. That's all

(54:39):
I want. I love who? Okay, so who from the
cast moved in with you? Yeah? Bevan and I lived together,
which character is the most likely to move in with you.
I mean, Brooke also moves in with everyone. That's true.
She moves in with Lucas, she moves in with Rachel,
shes in with Haley. She lived with Peyton for a
hot second. That's true. So Hillary in real life, Brooke

(55:03):
and fake life. I'll just anybody who'll tell day, I'll
show up like like a sad little paper. Well, guys,
that was a nice palate cleanser. I really appreciate this
episode for its bottle quality. It exists in the middle
of nowhere. We want to see a high school production
of this episode. Yeah, yeah, man, all right, what do

(55:25):
we have next week? Season four, Episode fourteen, Sad Songs
for dirty lovers sounds dirty? Okay, guys, let me see
you next week. Thanks for joining, Bye, hey, thanks for listening.
Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also
follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O t H
or email us at Drama Queens at I heart radio

(55:47):
dot com. See you next time. We are all about
that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them
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(56:09):
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