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January 26, 2024 230 mins

N.O.R.E. & DJ EFN are the Drink Champs in this episode the champs chop it up with the legend himself, Grandmaster Flash!
Grandmaster Flash shares his journey. The creator of the Quick Mix Theory, Grandmaster Flash explains how he created the technique which gave birth to scratching, cutting, and transforming!
Flash shares stories from the early days of his iconic group “Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five” and much much more!
Lots of great stories that you don’t want to miss!
Make some noise for Grandmaster Flash!!! 💐💐💐🏆🏆🏆 🎉🎉🎉

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
He is drinks chests, motherfucking podcast makes He's a legendary
queens rapper.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
He ain't agree.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
That's your boy in O R E.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
He's a Miami hip hop pioneer put up as d
J e f N.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Together they drink it up with some.

Speaker 4 (00:24):
Of the biggest players, you know what I mean, and
the most professional, unprofessional podcast and your number one source.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
For drunk drink chans.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Mothers Day is New Year's c That's it's time for
drink champs.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Drink up, motherfucker?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Would good be you hoping this would have stupid? This
is your boy in O R E. What up is
DJ e f N. This is Militopa crazy wore drink Champs.

Speaker 1 (00:50):

Speaker 2 (00:56):
When me and e f N started this show, got
together and we said, we want to give flowers, we
want to give props, we want to give love to
the people who came way before us.

Speaker 5 (01:11):
You know, to the icons. To literally if.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
This man that we're about to introduce right now, if
it wasn't for him, this show wouldn't exist, DJs wouldn't exist,
Hit records wouldn't exist.

Speaker 5 (01:25):
This man has been there, He is is all and
is all.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
Legendary icon, they said, the first time you ever heard
of a scratch period in hip hop, it was his fingers.
We're gonna make sure we get a fingerprint of his
fingers today. He is a legend of a legend. We
are so when we started this show seven years ago,

we wanted to give this man his flowers so bad
and we are so happy today. Me and EFN as
been like, this is Christmas, even though it is a
New Year's gift for you motherfuckers, this is Christmas for
me and e FN because we we're gonna start this
out with the flowers. Is the flowers here? We we
we we we we go right into it.

Speaker 6 (02:14):
We don't stop theself.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
You know what, why we do the flowers. This is
why we get the flowers. It's in case you don't
know who the fuck we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
We're talking about the one.

Speaker 3 (02:33):

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, we are so happy to have you here, and
I'm so happy that you're you're like crazy because you
got you got.

Speaker 5 (02:40):
Notes, you have got back. I think it's the only
people who came with notes.

Speaker 7 (02:45):
I'm gonna key.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yes, you know I didn't think mathematically and with science.
That's that's pretty much how I do things.

Speaker 7 (02:53):
You know what I'm.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Okay, so we're gonna start this off. We're gonna start
so I'm gonna get straight to it. Did you ever
do cocaine?

Speaker 1 (03:00):
James? No, actually, Rick James. Rick James was a musical mentor.
Okay to me. Okay, so this is what I mean
by that. We were on tour and our tour buss

busses were close together, and I seen Rick and Rick
sat me down and said, the records you got is
really big, man. You're publishing should be huge. Wow you
I said, you didn't know about publishing.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
At this time.

Speaker 1 (03:38):
I said, what is it I thought about I thought
it was a book.

Speaker 5 (03:40):
You didn't say what is published?

Speaker 1 (03:44):
Publishing? Yeah, because books are publisher So me and Rick
were talking. He broke it down to me what it was.
So when we got back home from the tour, you know,
I went to the the first five tour, the Grand
Master Fest, went back to the office and I started

asking questions.

Speaker 7 (04:09):
So let's just.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Say, you know, things got a little rocky. You know,
things is got a little strange because you got realized
coming from the hood and doing this thing in the streets,
we was kings. You know what I'm saying that going
to the record business. We know what this ship was,
you know what I mean? So, uh, let's just say
you me going too long into the story. Things started

to get really really strange because you could be an
expert of what you do in the streets, but getting
in the record business, there's there's so many legal factors.
There's so many things that you don't understand how it works,
and it works in layers legal this, that that. That

uh got really rocky after that, And I just want
to say that thank God that I had so many
people that loved me then, that loved me now and
understand that I am one of the architects mathematically and

scientifically of this culture. Absolutely, so with or without records,
I still would have been here, you know so. But
for me, I could honestly say I didn't have a
fucking clue about the record business at that time. Who
Rick put us onto the record business, put me on
about certain things, how published it works, this and that

and that. And then when I asked the questions.

Speaker 5 (05:39):
Did you hear about warranties back then?

Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yes, I heard roughly about royalties, but the publish that
they didn't have a clue about that, you know so,
and there was a lot of other business factors that
I didn't know about. Uh, to find out about it
late in the game, shit got really ugly, you know
what I mean.

Speaker 7 (05:59):
That's pretty much.

Speaker 3 (06:00):
And it's crazy that even it's early in the game
that you got in in terms of hip hop being monetized,
and still it took decades, almost a decade or more
for hip hop to get hit to the publishing game
and the and the and the legalities of the industry
and how the industry was working.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
Right, like for example, me being the first human sampler.
Like even the lawyers at that time couldn't figure out
this division of music is taking a portion of an
existing composition and they and they're inserting it into a
new composition. How do we quantify that? The music business

couldn't figure out even how to quantify it. And it
got down to the point where they finally got smart,
even James Brown's Huh, you had to pay royalties on
it if you asserted it into a new composition called
the sampling.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Okay, come on, because we had I think we had
someone on here and they said that Molly was the
first person to sample on record. But you're saying you're
the first person in the sample period.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
He invented. What I actually invented was sampling. Okay, what
I actually invented is human sampling. I took a particular
area of the existing composition, preferably the area where there
was no singing, just the drummer and maybe light accompaniment
might be the drummer in the bassis, the drummer in

the throw this. And when I did this with two
copies of record, this particular area of the song was
ten seconds long.

Speaker 7 (07:37):
That pissed me to fuck off.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
So I had to figure out the way, how can
I take this ten seconds from this? Pop rock, jazz,
blue funk, disco, R and B, alternative, Caribbean Latin this
one particular section and elongated just enough so that the
breakers could have a steady beat to dance on. Later,
it became the music bed for the rapper to speak on.

Today they called it rap. Back then, we called it
him singing. I gotta.

Speaker 5 (08:12):
But by way go ahead, because we still didn't get
a yes and no.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
If you sniffed copd no, no you never said yes.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
I know, but but I know because I feel like
we're jumping a little bit further than I would want
to because I go back.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
I want to go back.

Speaker 7 (08:32):
Let's go back.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
What's you because you started as you were a kid,
we started doing this. So who's around you? What does
influenced you? What is happening and shaping hip hop at
this time? Where are you at when when Hirk's doing
the parties? Like, where is this all beginning for you?

Speaker 7 (08:49):
My beginning was.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
My father was an avid collective of records, but he's
his main job was a track repairman in New York
for the subway.

Speaker 7 (09:00):
Wow, my dad had this closet.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
And the rules in the Saddler house was this, never
go in that closet where Dad's music lives, and do
not go into the living room where the brown box lived.
And as a single digit toddler, I was wondering, why
is that Dad would come home, Mama feed and his dinner,

he'd gave this alcoholic beverage. He would go to this
closet and he will open this closet and e there
was these square things with art on it, a train, flowers, people,
picture of a can. I'm wondering.

Speaker 7 (09:53):
What is he going to do with that?

Speaker 1 (09:56):
And inside this square thing he pulls out this black
circular thing. I wasn't allowed in the living room unless
I was accompanied by an adult. He's an adult, So
I follow him into the living room where the brown
box lives. He pulls out this circular, brown black thing.
He puts it inside this brown box and this arm

thing goes up. The record goes down as the sound
comes out of the brown box. I thought my dad
was a fucking magician. How could he pull this off?
I say to myself. I say to myself, guys, I'm

gonna watch that. Dad comes home about box six o'clock.
Mom feeds food, he goes over with the closet. I'm
following him for a couple of weeks. Now, I said
to myself when he was at work, hmm, what if
I when so I went to the kitchen, got a chair,

dragged it over to the closet because the knob is
kind of high. Turn the knob, open it.

Speaker 7 (11:15):
I see many of.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
These square things in this closet. I I grabbed the
nearest one. Now. Remember now, I've been watching him the routine.
So I take the nearest square one. I pull out
this circular thing. I go over to the brown box.

I watched him do the routine. How you press the button.
He puts it on this stick thing. It sits up,
the arm goes up, the vinyl goes down. Was it
called vinyl? Do you know what it was called? The
arm goes down? Music comes out of there. I'm dancing
in the living room. Mom comes in the living room
and says, Dad, am I allowed to say? Yeah? Whatever? Dad, Well,

I'm gonna use was because moms didn't curse God wrestler.
So Dad's gonna tear your backside up. So I'm getting
your wrisk. I'm taking a black thing off. I'm putting
it back into the square. I think I'm going back
to the closet, and I put it in the closet.
I close the door. I'm scared as fuck. All right,
Dad comes home, He does the routine. He goes to

the closet, He opens the closet. We're all home. Violet,
come here, Cometta, Penny, Lily, little Joe who was in
my closet, Violet, which I think was his favorite. Oh Dad,
you know, I don't message your records. And Committa said

I don't. I got my own records. And Penny, He's
like no. And Lily was too young. She was the
youngest saw by the time he's getting to me, I'm
like this. I get my heine hand, I get my
dinner fit to me. I have to go to bed early.

Now I have to figure out not when he comes
home from work, but when he leaves. So my dad
had his pouch because he was attract me, and he
had on his tools, and I can hear the pouch
go over his shoulder, clink, the door opens up, the
door slams. I wait, I go back in the kitchen.

I get the chair, I drag it over the closet.
I pull out the nearest one. After a while, it
was like me getting my hindee tanned and my dad
just not being able to stop me doing this. Eventually,
Dad left left Mom to take care of all of us.
I come from the projects twenty seven to thirty two Avenue.

I was on welfare, the food stamps, the whole nine yards.
You know, moms had to take care of us. I
still hadn't understood where the music was coming from. Mom
was a seamstress. When Mom wasn't looking, I went into
her plastic needle case and I grabbed the needle.

Speaker 7 (14:12):
I grabbed this needle.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
I turned the stereo partially on so that the arm
went and go up, and I took the needle and
I put it down on the black disc. I felt
vibration coming through my fingers. Oh, the music lives in
the black tunnels. From this point on, I got goosebumps.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
My nigga, hold on, I'm sorry, man, this is getting
real goo ahead.

Speaker 1 (14:42):
From this point on, I figured out where the music
was coming from. As I got older, I now wanted
to I just could not understand. How is it? What
is that little red light when Dad pushes his button,

and everything in the house that was operable, let's say,
was being plugged into this thing into the wall. I'm like,
what are these two little holes? And how are things happening? So,
as a young teenager, I was unscrewing the back of everything,
the stereo in the living room, the table radio, my

my sister's hair dryers, and the whole shit. I became
public enemy number one in my crib. If the hair
dry didn't work, body was saying yo at the table
radio didn't work, the stereo didn't work, the TV didn't work.
Because when I opened up the backyarll, I seen these
things that look like light bulbs in the back, I'm like,

what are these things? When I opened up the hair
dry I would see these little, tiny, different color objects
in it. My mom said, listen, you have to stop
doing this. I'm going to have to send you somewhere
that you can so that you can understand what it
is that you are doing, because you're taking apart this stuff,

but you can't put it back together. She sent me
to Samuel Gofi's loo case doing technical high school, and
this is where I learned about Tesla, Westinghouse Banneker.

Speaker 7 (16:31):

Speaker 1 (16:34):
This is where I learned about amplitude modulation AM, frequency
modulation FM, solid state versus vacuum tubes. What is her
own meter? What is a signal generator? These are the
things that you diagnose circuits. What is the bread board?
What is a resistant? What is the capacitor? What is

a transformer? What is a step up step down transformer?
What is a diode?

Speaker 7 (16:59):
What is a tube?

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Now I got to understand what these things was and
how they worked. So once I understood what Tesla did,
which is alternating current, and Edison did direct current. Now
behind the projects of the Throws, next project behind twenty

seven thirty Dewe Avenue there was a junkyard people throughout
the stereos, burned out cars, burned out.

Speaker 7 (17:29):
Stuff was back there.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
So now e and NORII, I'm dragging this stuff inside
the grib. My moms, my sisters is like, what are
you doing. I started to understand how I could take
this piece from here and this piece from here and
this piece from here, and started building my own amplifier

to build my speakers. I had to understand how they work.
You had your own speakers, right, I built my own speakers,
so listen to me. Can'tflee gods.

Speaker 7 (18:04):
We get ready to go. We get ready to go
to the rabbit hole. I didn't do this on any
other show.

Speaker 5 (18:12):
Difference between you and her is that you had your
own speakers.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
That he had a pretty pretty silence. So my system
was shipped. So it's a difference. But here's the difference.

Speaker 8 (18:23):
With me.

Speaker 1 (18:24):
I had to figure out how the speaker works. So
I say my way was math and science. So math
is bars how to count them fronts and backwards. This
is what DJs do, right. The science is kinetic energy.
And here's how I went about understanding.

Speaker 5 (18:47):
That's why we're gonna be a DJ. I ain't that
some mark.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
When you put the vinyl on the platter and you
allow it to spin up to speed, and you put
the needle on the vinyl. The move of air, it
is connectic energy out of the turntable, goes into the receiver.
It becomes electrical energy. Out of the back of the receiver,
it goes through the speakers that returns back to connectic energy.

That's science. There are those and I look at Wikipedia.
I'm so angry at them. I came up with this
of building a amplifier and human samping from no one.

Speaker 7 (19:36):
My mom taught me what.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
The value of a needle was, and my father, kicking
my ass, taught me the value of what final was.
Samuel gomp has taught me how to put it all together.
So when I go up on the turntables. This is
what made me fall in love with DJ and the

disco DJ yo E, my Boya, Larry Levan, Grandmaster Flowers,
P DJ Jones. When they play, they don't play like us,
but they blend, and they might be between two records
for fucking five minutes, and I'm like watching them, and
I'm watching them here and the other record arriving while

the other one is departing, I'm like, oh my god,
these people are amazing on what they do. But you
and I we have a shorter runway. So I had
to figure out how to connect a short runway and

a short amount of time. The right way to DJ
is picking up their tone arm and putting it down
and letting the record play. That's the way a lot
of the DJs played before me, the ones that weren't

weren't disco DJs. It is absolutely impossible to pick the
tone of them up and drop it back down on
the beat and keep the floor rocking. It's impossible. P
DJ Jones gave me a turn when I met him.
He says, people that cannot keep the beat on time,

it's called train wreck DJ in I did not want
to be that, so I had to figure out how
like the DJs would play the turntable, the vinyl, and
the mixer the right way. By the time I figured
out how to do this, I had to play the vinyl,
the mixer, and the turntable the wrong way. This is

the way that me and you play. It's called the
quick mix. I grew up in a home where it
was pop, rock, jazz, blues, funk, disco, R and B, alternative,
Latin Caribbean, jazz, all of it. So where I come from,
music has no color. Dope music is just dope music.

So now, when I listened to Curtis Mayfield song called
move On Up that Break, and that song was made
in nineteen seventy, I would notice when when my mom's
or my cousins giving house parties, when a drum part came,
the high knees will move more. So in my mind,
I said to myself, that's the best part.

Speaker 7 (22:37):
Of the record.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
But when I thought I listening to other records, I
noticed that that part was incredibly short. That made me
so fucking angry. And that's when I had to figure out,
how can I take this part thatst like five ten

seconds and e law gated ten minutes seamlessly, so the
people on the dance floor wouldn't have a clue of
what I was even.

Speaker 7 (23:08):
Doing. No other DJ gave me this inspiration.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
The disco DJs taught me the law of being a
DJ respectfully for people who's on the dance floor, heads
should go like this. If you're playing good Times, heads
should go like that. If you're playing Queen, heads should
go like that if you're playing jay Z, heads should
go like that.

Speaker 7 (23:34):
If you're playing.

Speaker 1 (23:35):
Drake, DJ should not be hold on okay, head should
not when the DJ transition. Head should not be going
like this trying to find a beat that is breaking
the law of transition DJAN.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
And that's where my ship comes from, right Is DJ
Hollywood considered a DJ just because DJ When I met.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Hollywood, he was bigger than disco and he was actually
king in the discos and he was actually one of
the first DJs I seen that was able to have
four or five parties in one night, like we would
set out, set out equipment up and play form nine
to four and the gymnasium or whatever whatever. This motherfucker
was playing eleven o'clock at Club one in Manhattan and

then maybe twelve to one in Brooklyn, Club two, and
then Club three. Is that lowland? This montherfuckers getting kk
Kate Kate Kate Kate. I considered him like one of
the smartest in the game at that time because he
got five he got five checks. He was doing this shit,
but he was he was doing it disco, you know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (24:43):
Because said disco. Yeah, I know, we bouncing around a
little bit.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
What is the what is the term?

Speaker 1 (24:49):
When's the first time you heard the term.

Speaker 6 (24:51):
Mc in.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
The first time I heard the term mc in? That's
when I took the microphone.

Speaker 7 (25:10):
All right. I was playing in sixty three park Frox.

Speaker 1 (25:15):
Steve jaying. People were looking at the table. What its
his magic? Tricking that shit he's doing. I needed somebody
to take the attention off of me. I'll put a
microphone on the other side of the table, Norrie and
anybody that I could talk to. This new style of
djy in lots of motherfuckers was whack. But it was

this one guy that I eventually met. His name was
Keith Wiggins. Street name is Cowboy, Keith Cowboy, Keith Cowboy.
If I played Apache or play whatever, he had a
way of having the crowd. I call it hip hop aerobics.

Almost he had him here. So now, ain't a shy
geek person that I was. I can't go into my
collection and go in because Cowboy go and stay with me.
I asked him, do you want to say me so
we could go to different park to different areas to
do this, and he said why not. That's the first
time I heard am saying.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Okay, let me interrupt you a little bit, because all right,
but what are you playing? If this record wasn't made,
what are you actually d.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
I'm playing Apache, I'm playing Rufus Thomas. I'm playing an
incredible bob Go band. I'm playing oh Man. I'm playing
Curtis Mayfield. I'm playing all early Man Drill. I'm playing
early Barrier White. I'm playing I'm in my I'm in
my head right now because I want to establish this.

Speaker 5 (26:45):
I want to establish this for all the listeners listening.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
You're saying the very first hip hop parties.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Didn't play hip hop. What he was doing was eventually
just think about thinking about the lagic of what you're
just saying, like, because this is a hip hop Remember
hip hop isn't just the music of it.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
But we're still think and we still got this hip
hip hop the wrapping side of its developing. When he
came out, actually wasn't playing hip hop.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
And now see this is where we different.

Speaker 7 (27:22):
So the question is this what was hip hop back then?

Speaker 1 (27:26):
Hip hop was a regurgitation of using songs that already
exist exactly. Some of our dopest songs were white records
and black records and foreign records. On American records, they
were R and B. They would disco, they were jazz,
they were Latin, they were but we had to find
that little So when I started playing, I can remember

guys that used to use what I call heavy on
the toe arm type DJ N and as Pete would say,
trade records. I was probably the most hated DJ during
this time. It's because connoiseus are very careful about how

they handle their record, like newborn baby, say, take it
out of the white sleeve, right, and they carefully put
it on the turntable, and they're very careful with it.
When they finished with it, they take it out off
the turntable, he put it back into the white paper
and they carefully put it into the jacket. Me I

took copies of the motherfucking record and just slammed it
in one jacket. I was putting crayon marks or in
the whole shit so it could mark, so I could
mark the bricks because I played in dark places and
I had to be able to find it immediately, which
remember our runway was really short. So when people found
out that I was putting, I was the first DJ
to make records dirty.

Speaker 7 (28:53):
I tried getting jobs and clubs. Motherfuckers was like YO.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
And some of the DJ that was play ain't at
that time when my friends aren't YO telling the boss man,
let me get a job.

Speaker 7 (29:04):
You're like YO, last day know about you?

Speaker 2 (29:05):

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Like you? You moved your record back and forth, you
put your fingers on it, you crayon marks in it.
I couldn't get a job to save my mother, but
they thinking maybe I probably was gonna spread that for
me today DJ. So it wasn't until I went to
this club on the off days on one hundred and

sixty seventy set in Jerome and it's Italian guys own
this disco club called disco Field.

Speaker 7 (29:33):
All right, come on.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
So I go in there and I mean Ali and
sal Sal's the son, Ali's the father, And I say
to him, well, uh, did you do you think I
could get a night in here? Because Salad already heard
of me, and I found that out recently. He went

to the park and seeing this thing that I was doing.
So by the time I got to him, I was like, yosel,
you did I could get a Saturday night in your club?
He looked at me like I was fucking crazy, right,
he says.

Speaker 9 (30:15):

Speaker 1 (30:16):
He says, what I will do is I'll give you
a Tuesday. I was angry as a fucking He said, flash,
if you do this, I promise you this is gonna
make you huge. I was angry at first. Two months
later Tuesday was rivaling Saturday. Then I got a Wednesday.
So this is when I started playing in clubs with this.

So I bought hip hop into disco Fever. And the
people that used to come there hecked the Mansall Camacho,
the Gap Band, like all the big stars that if
they were in town, they came to disco Fever. They
hecked a mas cocaine in the club. No you're I mean,

so are you? At that time, Oh man, I was
the disco Fever. I want to say, in my early twenties,
maybe crazy.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Okay, what is considered the first hip hop club?

Speaker 10 (31:12):

Speaker 1 (31:13):
You know, it's hard to say because when we was
playing in the parks and this is where I kind
of step out of this. In my humble opinions, I
do not think a DJ came up with the title
h I P H O P. They said Cowboy or

love Bucks Dartsky, but they both were rappers, So it's
still up for whatever for debate, debate where he came from.
I personally think, in my opinion, when we was doing
this earlier, early and early on, I think that it
didn't have a title yet. I think we were creating

something because the monster at that time was disco, and
with disco you had you had to have a hard
bottoms suit, jacket, no jeans, no hoodie, like we dressed
the way that we dressed pretty much. So as disco
was fading, hip hop came alive. But musically and how

it happens is the graffiti artist was already out there,
and I was told by these other breakdances that they
were already out there as well. They connected to herk
and to flash and to bam the rapper as we

know it. Because we jackshits, we jack words from other things.
So when they say am singing, M seeing really means
I'm talking to you right now, and I'm a master
of ceremonies and I'm sort of presiding over the room
and I'm speaking. But we jack ship to call it
something else. Me, I think that MC is ridically talking

to the beat of a DJ's rhythm.

Speaker 4 (33:13):
That's what I I personally called it. So it started
with Keith Cowboy. That's what I say that I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
That's what I say. The others say, you know, and
this is where I'm really said Cowboy here as well.
I'm kind of confused.

Speaker 7 (33:35):
It is because, Okay, put it this way.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Coo Hurk incredible, incredible sound system, he played incredible music.

Speaker 7 (33:46):
His crew, Cocar Rock, Timmy Tim Clark.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Say, Coclar Rock was one of the first MC two
as well.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
When I went to go see them, Coca Rock was
a DJ. So I don't understand where that comes from.
So if I'm seeing, if we jack the word, I'm
seeing from the masses, and it's defined as a human

being who talks rhythmically on the beat of music. Wasn't
nobody doing that back then? We all had echo chambers.
HRK had the best echochamber. We were just blabbing out whatever,
but serious speaking to the beat of music. Maybe I'm

going crazy. I didn't see that yet. It had it
happen yet. And this is why I'm saying, out of
all the four elements, the rapid did come last, but
they are undisputedly the crown jewel all of this. They
took this thing where it had to be, and I'm
saying there was no steady beat for them to rhyme

on at that time because people were using the tone
arm and the beat wasn't steady, so it had been
absolutely impossible for a rapper to wrap on that. So
you're saying you bring that to the game, I'm saying
that I did.

Speaker 6 (35:21):
Very humble.

Speaker 3 (35:22):
I just had the ball even showed, because I don't
think people would understand what he means by picking up
the tone arm, the DJ wasn't mixing, blending and bringing
it on beat. They were literally picking up the record
and putting it on the record like.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Beat was crashing into the right. They weren't trying to
make it sound smooth.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
They were just bringing it close enough by just bringing
it up and down, bringing it, just dropping the needle
on the record to switch the record.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
I'm going to remonstrate that when I get up there,
you know. So for me, like last summer, I sit back,
I watch all the press that comes out hYP Hop fifty.
You know, first of all, they shot it on the
Bronx for years and years and years. Oh this place

has all the fires, the political upheaval, cops taking payoffs.
You know, the Bronx is fucked up, and all of
a sudden, now the Bronx is the blomb now and
it's this, that, that that, and now it's mainstream. You know.
So I'm saying, I'm saying to myself, well, if that
is the case, why is it that all the press

that I look at they say, let's start it right here,
and I just say you three And it's in two
thousand and four, So what the fuck happened to where
it started? And carefully chronologically speaking, going how it got here?

You know why that's so important because people who are eighteen, right, thirty,
forty fifty, you actually have to say you were near
sixty to say that you were in the park with us.
So much respect to the PR and to all the

depressed people. There's a whole forty eight years that has
not been put in the press that is unfair to
people like myself, like Africa Bambada, like Coolhirk, like DJ Breakout.

Why isn't this press being definitively put in so that
the babies, because things work in trends right now with
the shit right now become August fourth is grand Master
last day August eleven is cool. Heirk day from August
twelfth as the next fucking trend. Maybe microphones, Maybe it's
a fucking.

Speaker 7 (38:01):
Bottle of water.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
We need we need to get this ship right now
because we're trending, because after that it goes into history
history books incomplete or incorrect. And this is why I
find it critically necessary that I do as much speaking
and I'm only one of four, what I want to

do as much speaking as possible because Norwy, you need
to know, because you're an expert in your field. You
need to know where this shape came from. Like you
said when you opened up the show before you you
should know where it does come from, who, what, where
and why. And this is the reason why I'm going

to be going to all the sunny colleges. I'm going
to the y m c A, to all the babies,
all the corporates. I'm doing this birth of a Culture
corporate tour. I'm gonna go around and speak as much
as I possibly can because I have to. This is
this is, this is our thing, and long after I'm
going I'd like to know that this thing is correct

because being quite frankly, a lot of people celebrate their birthday, right.
I don't give a fuck about a birthday. You know
what I care about my death day? What am I
leaving so the babies could build on that? That's where
I'm at. So this is why I got to speak.

Speaker 5 (39:26):
You said one of the four, who's the other three?

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Quirk bam botta breakout flash? The four of us the
ship ain't just one person at one time frame. This
is a combination of a lot of things. I got
a bullet point thinking, Man, I'm gonna go all now,
I'm a fucking geek. Imma, I gotta I gotta do this.

Like you know, we need to to congratulate the breakdances,
to congratulate the like the producers. Why the fuck are
we not talking about to producers? Because I'm telling you
what I did. Human sampling. There was just a machine
that came into play called the computer and the sampler.

They took that same piece of information and inserted in
the computer. Hit the spacebom and tell the space to
tell the computer to repeat this loop. It's the shit
that I did. If we don't give love to these producers,
this ship would have never become big business. It's not
possible somebody had to go in and do that. And

this is why I talk about these I think it's
really important that journalists interview to the producer because a
lot of your rappers, you'll come in and say to Ron,
you get the fuck out and keep.

Speaker 7 (40:43):
Going, right.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Somebody got a say in the room and put that
bitch together, yep, And that is the producer. Why aren't
we talking about these people? Premiere Dre Oh shit, I
gotta fucking lift Pete Pete Rock Can I missed exactly?
Timberlind like exactly? We have to Kanye West. Let's talk

them about that because the nine times out of ten,
if you would have asked a rapper with his truncation
with a sampling, what is equeuing? We don't know that
ship right, Oh, thank you so much. They don't want
to have a clue to this. So it's just important

on how I did my science. But it's just important
as some producers in the studio in their science to
deliver the master to the record companies, and then the
record companies they should get love too, because they didn't
have to put this ship out. We had there was
no bootprint before this to say that this ship was
gonna be the ball. They took a chance with this

ship to the Sylvia Roans and the rest of them.
They took Sugarhill Record. Yeah, Sylvia Robinson, all these people.
They didn't have to do this so that we could
sit here and live comfortable and eat off this ship
that we love. I'm walking into the room. I'm walking
into the up to the to the to the room
here that I'm in, and I'm like, oh, let's just

fly as a mother fucking may back right there.

Speaker 7 (42:13):
I said, who fucking maybag is that?

Speaker 11 (42:15):

Speaker 1 (42:16):
You looked at me and said, hey, man, so let
me ask you a question.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
I was clear something you mentioned Marty Mark what I think?
What what he said and will is that he recreated
with flash. He was one of the first producers or
the first producer to recreate on record.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, on record, that could be possibly true because it
was Cold Child and Water Brothers was probably one of
the first. But then it was Death Chair two. You know,
it's it's up for debate, but the insertion of music
inside of a new production and the human beings speaking
on it. There were three major labels that was pretty

much doing that, and that was Cole Chilling, Cole Chilling,
Warner Brothers. Marley mar was and he was a producer
for all the artists, but Big Daddy Kane and bis
Walking all of them, you know. And then there was
sugar Hill, and then they then came Russell Simmons with
jam and Leo Cohen, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 7 (43:16):
And it just went from there, and it was Uptown.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Records, bad Boy Records, and it goes on and on
and on and on and on. So this thing has
so much of a story of substance. And when I
look at the press that's happening, I'm like, who is
controlling the narrative of the press, because they're leaving out

so many things?

Speaker 2 (43:43):
But it isn't. I'm sorry, but this is kind of
like the NBA, Like like when you look at the
NBA right now, right the NBA and anybody playing in
the NBA, I got so many friends, so many people
who have my phone numbers, so.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
Do not call me.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Not talking about you particularly, but the NBA kind of
seems soft right now, right And it's like like and
and when you compare it to the nineties, right and
it's like if you don't have these old clips.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Of the nineties.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
These people don't understand that the NBA was like playing
right as out. It was like right as a boy,
and now it's like playing in fucking Barbie Land.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
You know what I'm saying, like like Disney learned.

Speaker 5 (44:19):
I'm sorry, Like.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
People, please don't hit me. I don't mean it like that.
But what I'm trying to say is, isn't it isn't it?
Isn't it? Isn't it?

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Like when you see these young kids, right, these young
kids they twenty they they are twenty five and under,
and they would actually sit there and be like, Okay,
I'm gonna go get to the New Jordan's. But they're
making money through hip hop. Yes, they're making money through
hip hop, but there would go and they don't. They
haven't seen Michael Jordan play or Doctor Dre But why
wouldn't they go? And yeah, yeah, why wouldn't they do

their research if they're making money through hip hop?

Speaker 1 (44:50):
That's my biggest thing.

Speaker 2 (44:51):
Okay, But this new generation is like I think you
said it earlier, like like you said, the people.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Need to know and that's what they need to want
to know. That's the biggest problem too. But you gotta
teach them to know, like you have to drop the
science to these babies and say this is what it is,
this is what it is. Now go look at go
look for the rest. Like when I play sometimes depending
on what country I'm in, Norrie, I listen all over

the world exceeds, you know, like before COVID, I was
I was going to one hundred and fifty countries a
year before COVID for the past, you know, eighteen years
before COVID. So for me, sometimes I'll be playing the
old school ship all the way back to our time
and I see in the front row kids like around seventeen,

eighteen nineteen, and I when I went backstage, I grabbed
two of the kids and I said, how do you
know this stuff? They said, my mom, my dad, and
my uncles. You know, my aunts taught them. So it's
like what you're saying, Norri. You know, we as eld,
the state's people have to inform the baby. So this
is why I'm saying the breadcrumbs from the seventies to now,

you have to put all of them down. You can't
just say the Bronx say ship and then all of
a sudden, the next two years, the Bronx says the ship,
and it went putting this to that. So how the
fuck did it happen?

Speaker 7 (46:20):
And who did it?

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Some people lost their lives, some people ain't here no more.
That helped make this ship what this ship is. And
this is why I find it really important. I think
the DJ is extremely important because there was a time
before the game change. Record companies like Death Jam and

all the other labels shoots to bring me white labels
one o'clock in the morning, knocking on my door saying
this shit is fresh off the fucking prints. We need
you to tell us what this record is. Twing we DJs.

Speaker 5 (46:59):
You was the influence, said before influence, it was aflu.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
And so all this constitutes the building blocks of why
this thing is still here. Why don't we do this
step by step by step by step by step.

Speaker 7 (47:17):
It's just.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
Just boggles my mind. Let's continue the mixtape. The mixtape. Okay, wait,
wait wait.

Speaker 5 (47:26):
I love how you control on an interview, like.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Not get it to the mix tape. I like that.
I like that. I think that. I'm sorry, you know,
I'm just really crazy comfortable here.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
What is the first term? First time you heard that
term mixtape? And was it because it was mixes on
the tape because I actually got an album on the
tape cassette. There were two there were two versions of mixed.
There were two DJs that would record this shows when

we was playing back then, me and Bam Bam, and.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
That's what we called it because a DJ was mixing
on tape. There's two types of tapes.

Speaker 5 (48:23):
The Bam always have beats is one point.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
He never had beats. I'm gonna talk about Bam in
the mix mixtapes. Two types of mixtapes.

Speaker 7 (48:32):
There's the tape. There's the one. There's the one.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
You pop in while we're performing and the whole group is,
you know, doing anything. The DJ is the rapper. That
is the customized tape. Let's talk about the customized tape.
I would get called to do customized tapes for the.

Speaker 5 (48:51):
Drug dealers, the street vendors, the.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Street, the street. My client teller was the street farmaceutical
people and they lived in the hall in the Halem
and the Bronx, and this.

Speaker 7 (49:11):
Is what they would ask me. They said.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
I would say to them, just give me two souls
that you like. That would give me an idea of
what they like, and I would build around that. I said, so, well,
how long do you want this cassette tape to be?
If they said sixty, I say, here's my price, a
dollar a minute, so and I would look at the
distreet pharmaceutical person and say that's what it would course

they said, so what they says, all I want you
to do is this on your echo chamber. I just
want you every few minutes to say my name, because
you gotta realize, these street pharmaceutical people had the dopest
cause the dopest motherfucking sound systems, and it was going through.
So if their name was drink Champ stream tramp all

through the through the city, show the other the other
pharmaceutical people, You're like, yo, where the fuck you get
that comfort of mind?

Speaker 7 (50:07):
They're wrong or we got that shit from Grand Master.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
And I would and I would say, all right, what
you want sixty ninety one twenty Some would say ninety.

Speaker 7 (50:16):
I say ninety.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
Dollars one twenty one hundred and twenty. Some wanted a
real to real and it'd be sixty minutes or one
side and you reverse it and that you recorded, and
that was two hundred dollars. So this is the common
kind of money I was making. When I wasn't making
money doing the parties. I actually made more money do
doing the tapes than I was doing the parties. So

now a mixtape, I think now, correct me if I'm wrong.
It's like the pre album. It's like an artist that's
not signed what mix tape even.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
Signed today today out of their label Big Safe today,
but finished with you.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
Yeah, I'm not trying. I'm just trying to because I
don't really know what it what it became.

Speaker 5 (50:54):
Today exactly, say today savent finish with you?

Speaker 2 (50:57):
What you think?

Speaker 1 (50:58):
I'm thinking it's artists that are so dope but they're
not signs yet and they can make money without the label.

Speaker 7 (51:06):
This is what I'm thinking.

Speaker 3 (51:07):
But it's it's artists that are signed as well doing
street albums.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
But is it both?

Speaker 5 (51:11):
Is he either or it's both? It's both, Yes, both both.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
It's both because even artists like Faustis has a mixtape
and he sampled a bunch of beats, but he also
actually paid for the samples, you know what I'm saying.
So the fact is it's not an actual album, so
it doesn't go on sound scan as an album, but
it does, I guess because they still got to pay
the producers, and ultimately.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
If you ask a newer generation what a mixtape is,
they just think of an artist doing a street yes,
street a street album.

Speaker 7 (51:39):
So it's not just so.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
It could be a street album that's signed to a label,
or a street album that's not signed to a label,
and it could be an incredibly dope artist that's not
signed to a label. Right, And it's usually using beats
that they're not paying for. Usually that's what it is.
That's really, that's what really is what the mixtape became.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
They're taking instrumentals, they're taking whatever, and they're spitting over
whatever they want and not clearing any of these beats.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
Okay, so okay, then I want to ask you, how
does the mixtape today quantify the sales? How do you
know what it sold?

Speaker 7 (52:17):
Or is it more like we called it an audio
flyer or.

Speaker 5 (52:21):
The first audio DJ drama.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
That's how let changed after you got everything with Internet
from the mixed ere I started doing mixtapes on cassettes,
then on CDs. I didn't like as much, but I
did it. But once everything went Internet, that to me
changed what it meant. A mixtape meant the culture. Mixtapes
to me ended.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Because even even like let's say fifty he kind of
like ushered in the artist mixtape, he.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
Was still putting them on CD dipset as well, and
say so that's.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
That culture of physical Once that physical culture ended.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
I feel like kind of like the mixtape era ended
in a sense, people still put stuff on streaming said this.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Is my mixtape album all But I.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Think at first when it got to the fifty dipset era,
I think that that they were the first time that
it wasn't hosted by DJ right, or that was hosted
by DJ yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:10):
Most of the yeah, yeah exactly.

Speaker 3 (53:11):
Still a lot of those those mixtape albums incorporated the
DJ putting it together and and and doing like you know,
drops Ford and hosting it.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
Okay, got it, got it, got it? So okay, I understand.
So executives got the record labels, man basically get some
love to man. Yeah, all of them. There's some fund
up people that there is there, there there is by me,
I'm gonna go with a few that I know. Pretty cool,
that's right, And I'm sure you share the fucked up

when as I called him to you, Sylvia wrong, Electra
the wrong. She drew as album as well, yeah, Russell
Simmons and Leo Cohen Depth.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Jam specifically up even though either my definitely.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
Have no more flash, right, you know what I'm talking
about earlier Onstable here, Yeah, yeah, historical yes, Tom Silvanan
and Monica Lynch, Tommy Boy Record Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
don't know that one. Okay, Okay, Steve Stout r c
A Records, I think what a J jay Z's first

record label, Sleeping Bag Records. Will sockle Off Okay, yeah, wait,
hell his name is so off SoC st Yeah, Steve
uh will will sockle Off Right, leave that alone, Okay.
Sylvia Robinson, Sugar.

Speaker 10 (54:39):
You Records, your Sugar Hell Records, you had a second ago,
Steve Riston, Yeah, Aaron Fukes, Tough City Records, Fred Bounet,

Select Records Back.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
So there's a few, but there's so many more. And
to the people that's watching and listening, like, if I
do not say your label, you know or what you've done,
it would take me like five years to say all
the names, so please excuse me. So in the interest
of time, I had to put together a short list of.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
That because we could have easily added and easy with
Ruthless Records, or yes with two life with absolutely Skywalker
Records and a J Prince will.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Wrap a lot records right exactly. So for me, this
thing has like, you know, I haven't been on the
train in fifty years, but if I were to get
on the local, not to express the local, every stop
is something, Every stop is something, Every stop is something.
Every there's something to talk about until you get to

hear that's it really really important. Man.

Speaker 5 (56:03):
Let me ask you flash. Aliens come down.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
They come down, Aliens from a different planet, a different planet.
They hire as a motherfucker right. They high, They on
alien shit, they on alien ship. They come to you, flash,
they flash. We need one record to describe hip hop,

one record to describe this fifty years of hip hop,
this fifty one years of hip hop. They don't want
one record? Nah no, this is his question, brother Dominicans,
come a thing one record for alien. Never heard one
never heard, he never fingerpoped nothing, He doesn't know nothing.

Speaker 5 (56:53):
He just an alien. One record.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Nor can we go to no get too alien? Say
you know what, go ahead, you want to you top three?
It's just too to its two records. I think o
that and this is that that that are the absolute top.

If you were to say these records help start a movement,
would be Coherks discovery of Apache and my discovery. I'll
take me to the money grap by Bob James, one A,
one B.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
And look for the Remember who we're talking to. Some
people that don't even understand when you say discovery of
that record what that meant. Okay, so record shopping digging,
by the way, can I stop me for my second?

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Let me just tell you something, Just show me she
have a DJ friend and y'all are on the road.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
If you ever want to do something cool for your DJ.

Speaker 5 (58:07):
Friend, find a record store.

Speaker 1 (58:13):
It's like leaving a gamber at a casino.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
I can take.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
Anywhere in the world, and I can leave him at
a record store and a casino and I could go
out for six hours. No one would never know what's mission.

Speaker 2 (58:34):
So if you ever know to any DJ, listen, any artist,
anybody you've had a DJ friend, go overseas or go
somewhere you can bring him to a to reconstr herm
and her or her all they you know this ship
is real out right now?

Speaker 1 (58:49):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 7 (58:50):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (58:51):
If you don't want to fend nobody. Everybody can use
every bathroom.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
But if you want him to a DJ friend, you
bring him to a record store and they will enjoy
the ship out of the store. By the way, these
records don't have to speak at English.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
Don't matter.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
These records don't have to be hip hop.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
You prefer they could be harmor. But DJs are so
crazy they can listen and be like, oh, I'm taking this.

Speaker 2 (59:23):
I'm just telling you DJ's and producers, that's a treat.

Speaker 1 (59:26):
I'm sorry. I gave you out a tea cold for.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
So record shopping.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Record shopping.

Speaker 7 (59:34):
I'm in my teens.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
During the week I have to do my chores and
do my homework. Uh, do school work. On the weekend,
I'm getting up about eight o'clock in the morning, getting dressed,
washing my ass. I am going record shopping. I'm going

to which I think used to Will the godfather of
eclectic records was Downstairs Records, Nick and Barry. Okay, in
the village, and what street was at all thirty Street,
it's been that was much later. So I would go

down to Downstairs Records, and Nick and Barry would hey, Flash,
how you doing I'll say, uh, I just want to
go through some stuff because somehow or another, these two
white boys knew how to go out and get records
that would possibly work. That's crazy. So they're like curating

before you guys. Yeah, so I'm in there. Actually, Nick
and Barry would have two rooms. There's the public room
that people come in from the street. Then there's the
room in the pack VIP.

Speaker 5 (01:01:02):
You have VIP before VIP. I respect it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Go ahead. We in there all day in the turntable.
I'm in there looking in the cup one. I'm holding
the record up in the air because you could see
the break on the record, and how you could see
this the area of the composition has a bright spot,
so that tells you that the most of the band
members are not playing. The figures not playing in that area.

I would find that pop record, put it on. All
I needed was four bars. I'm buying two copies of that.
That was the love there. But then you would go
to the big stores where you have no cloud.

Speaker 7 (01:01:42):
Like there was a storm who was just thirty fourth
Street and eighth.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
AVEU called disco mad and this motherfuckers this store must
have been the size of a Walmart. So you just
in there, just searching. And I would go to the
pop session in the rock all of them, and I
would look at the cover. That's what spoke to you first,
That would speak to me first. And I remember this
one particular one was I was in a rock session.

The fucking album said toys in the attic. I'm like,
who the fuck wants to put their toys in the attic?
I held it up, put it down. I said, I'm
gonna just think about that and just search for others.

Speaker 7 (01:02:29):
But that shit was talking to me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
And Disco Matt no privileges. Once you break the street wrap,
you buy it. If there's nothing on it, you fucking
stuck with it. You gotta go to the cash register
and pay for some I call it a.

Speaker 5 (01:02:44):
Stiff as a scram. Joe still call it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
And I went over to the turntable and I played
most of the records whack whack, whack, whack, whack whack.

Speaker 7 (01:03:01):
Then the band put the.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
Bam boom bampoo, put the drum break in a front
of that ship.

Speaker 7 (01:03:08):
I'm like, oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
This group was new then, Columbia Records, didn't nobody know
much of who it was, and they had this they
had a really real weird name, arrow Smith, and the
cut on it. I would have missed it because that

end of the cut prior got the man, this this nasty,
fucked up guitar piece. But I stuck with it and
I let it play, and then it got quiet onto
the next section. I was like, oh my god, I'm
taking two of those. But there are times when I

look at the album cup and the fucking shit was
whack right, But I bought two of them. I gotta
go to the cash register and buy them. And in
my room mom's house these I had a stiff's crate.
So this is the purpose of this crate. When you're playing.

Sometimes DJ's mother camps, you know, because some weeks it's
hurts and a crap. Most across come to see him.
Sometimes it's flash, sometimes it's breakout. Sometimes you know whoever,
they'll send spies. You won't know who they are, but
they twenty feet away looking at the label.

Speaker 7 (01:04:42):
So this is what I did.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
I took the two copies of the Stiffs that I'm
stuck with, and I soaked them in the bathtub, and
I soaked the heat and the bathtub too, until the
label came up. And then I switched them. So now
follow so when that DJ would come there seeing what

that ship was, and I got to tell you years later,
we all at they said, flash, we cleaned our house,
cook the food, let the fucking album play, and the
break was never there. We had a way of keeping
our secrets. But today, ah, you know, I I there
no more secrets. I think it's important that the kids know.

Speaker 7 (01:05:27):
But we had to have a way.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
I used to mark the record with magic marcle or
scrape the label out and call it. If the ship
was called fucking Fiji, I'll call the shit can C
A N. So now the motherfucker's going looking for a
record called can. But we had to have secrets. We
had to to keep our fans. And that's what record
shop was to me. And I might record shop from

nine in the morning till ten o'clock at night, and
I may go to a record shop and find one
and twenty one copy in the fucking store. I'm like,
I'm like, yo, you can't get another way. He said, Man,
this is a small label and this is all they
had one copy. Now I'm calling stage in Brooklyn, Queen's Island.

Do you have a fucking do you have this record?
Because you had to have two? Wait, why did you
have to have two? So he could bring it back,
keep blooping it right to continue it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
And this is their version of having an exclusive ry,
saying they're hiding the record so the other DJ's camp
couldn't see right and get that record exactly, so that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Drum beat to continue that drum beat, norway, I had
to continue it. But I had that shit covered because
I didn't know who was in the building, and I
wanted my fans to stay with me, so I wanted
all my heat to stay with me. Herk was always
up high, bam Barda had goons, breakout was way up

in the north, so everybody was just protecting their own shit.
But record shopping, I can remember going for twelve thirteen
hours and not finding it, getting up Sunday and going
again and just trying to calling around, calling around, begging, pleading,
I need one more copy of this record. Sometimes the
copy would be printed and it might be a red

label for the same album somebody reprinted it. It might
be a white label, you know what I'm saying. And
I got two odd labels. I didn't give a fuck.
This iss log as I was able to keep that
beak on and keep that crowd rocking. And these are
the things that you know, I find very important to
talk about.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
But let me ask you because what you're saying, and
you're describing right there, is you're describing a DJ like
being a producer.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):

Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
That's actually kind this is kind of a producer. So
it's kind of like to say, if you do it
the way that you're describing.

Speaker 1 (01:07:43):
Which is the wrong way, louse. You don't play a
turntable that way. I came up with the wrong way
because your theory is the wrong way.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
That But what you're saying is basically, if you're a DJ,
you're an automatic producer. But if you're a producer, doesn't
automatically make you a DJ.

Speaker 1 (01:07:59):
Right, But I'll tell you this much, and we're gonna
go We're gonna go back to the producers. If they
were fifty producers on the first batch that went out
in the eighties, forty eight of them with DJs that
understood the law.

Speaker 7 (01:08:17):
Of a seamless loop.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
So from Dre to Pete Rock to Premiere to Battlecat
you know, to Christ the Glove tailor, all of them
they were DJs.

Speaker 7 (01:08:31):
So they knew how one.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
To make a seamless loop, which I'm going to show
you what that is over there. Use it and the
sampler inserted at New Kicks Snaars make that shit sound incredible.
So the rapid could come in and say what you
can say that, he'll go leave, and then it's the
producer and that track and making that track as fat

as possible. That's what the majority of the DJs are
at that time coming to help. That made the only
incredible records Q tip, all of them they were DJs,
and that's why all them records to this day, like
if you if you were in the club on you
in the spot where you playing for a couple of hours,

it is almost impossible to not have to go back
there and grab one or two. It's almost impossible because
that music never died. It's all still here pretty much.
So I'm gonna go over here. Now.

Speaker 2 (01:09:36):
You said that's the first beat machine in hip hop?

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):

Speaker 6 (01:09:40):
Yeah, what is that?

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
Yes? The big box? Okay, it's called the beat box
B box.

Speaker 5 (01:09:45):
I always thought Dougie Fresh was the B box c B.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Doug You're gonna talk right after. We're gonna talk later
on today too okay, so nor Red, this was my
secret weapon. Evy DJ back then had turntables. Right now,
there was this guy uh Dame escapes me. He lived
in a Jackson Projects and I would hear this machine

being played out the window. I made it a point
to keep going back there, keep going back there, till
finally I met this guy and I asked.

Speaker 7 (01:10:21):
Him what was it that he was playing?

Speaker 1 (01:10:24):
He was playing this. He was a drummer, but when
he were practice, he would practice with this. I said
to myself, if I can learn how to play this,
just basic, I could come off the turntables and jump
on this. So ray Challa, I'll manage. At that time

said we're gonna put that on the Flyer. Secret weapon,
the beat box. The Furious came up with the saw.
It was a party and his own me I was
on this sand and people.

Speaker 3 (01:11:08):
So l.

Speaker 1 (01:11:11):
So this became a secret weapon. And this got us
more more fans. Years when by later and they were
these super people. I called them this Markey rest in Peace,
Dougie Fresh that decided to replicate the sounds of a

drum with their mouths, and they made huge records off
of this. But this is this box that I found
and I called it the beat box. Wow.

Speaker 6 (01:11:45):
So I'm gonna just mess around a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:11:58):
Wow, so pretty much. And Meldon the Boys wrote a

song on it. So now see knowing these are the
kind of things that I'm talking about, and I appreciate you. First,
you will eat Huh. That's the first you can say
the person first drum, drum machine and hip hop period
credecessor for yeah, the cast cast didn't even have a
C yet.

Speaker 6 (01:12:37):
It wasn't even see you on cast.

Speaker 7 (01:12:38):
It wasn't around yet.

Speaker 1 (01:12:39):
You know, this is why I found it critically important
to come here. And I appreciate the EFN and and
and nor to allow me to expound, expound on this.
Appreciate you because I'm dragging you guys in and out
of the rabbit hole we started. Okay, so so.

Speaker 12 (01:13:02):
This song right here some of nineteen seventies, when it
was me try to snap here.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
At the house Parkings in my mom's house or my
bucker's house, the backside used to move more and his
break still going, still going now, I thought back then,

and I was twelve or thirteen, old records have the
break like that, But when they didn't, that's when I
became very angry and that's when I had to come
up with this thing where I extended to break. So
now all, let's I'm gonna move through a couple of

things here. I'm gonna try to think within the five
second law, but try to do that, okay. So the
genius of the producers doctor Dre, like like they all
love me, Dre loves me and he's as huge as

he is, He's not afraid to say that I inspired
him to do what he does. Absolutely, you know what
I'm saying, So.

Speaker 13 (01:15:00):
Hold on.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
That was all the genius of the producer to put

this in the computer and a sampler and the incredible
rhymes of nas.

Speaker 7 (01:15:37):
Let's continue on.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
And some of these records were popped. Were rocking with
Jason and Blues, were funking with disco, they were R
n B.

Speaker 14 (01:15:45):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
So when people ask me know where to do a set,
I played pop rock, They're like, what the no, what
the fuck are you doing. I'm saying, I'm playing a
hip hop set. I'm playing what I know.

Speaker 15 (01:15:56):
This song here has has the worst name in the
even in the world. Uh Sweet green Fields, Shields and Cross.
The producer that did Cliff one. The producer that took
Cliff one, the producer.

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
That followed me.

Speaker 6 (01:16:27):
Now that's the black part.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
So all the producer did is take to see this
loop theory that falls under the quick mix theory and
made big records. Why doesn't the press talk about this?
But it was in front of me. I would keep

it beat steady, those you can still do it. Let's
gettue on. Oh, thank you, thank you. Let's shit. Let's
go here. Uh m hm, Let's go a little further.

Let's go a little fir Let's go a little first,
Let's go a little check the Ryan.

Speaker 11 (01:18:06):
So much, so much.

Speaker 1 (01:18:11):
If Piggy was in front of me so much, it's crazy.

He's showing you the where he started and how that
translated in the production. This one's quite special. H This
recon probably would have been double leg that was sold
a copy until it's incredible. Rapper put his voice on

this feat one of my favorite freaky mules.

Speaker 11 (01:19:19):
Y're going, it's like it's where.

Speaker 1 (01:19:46):
So that's wh just playing this produced this ship out.

Speaker 14 (01:20:03):
If it's not damn record right, mel hold my god up.
Let's play some disco. Let's play some disco. Let's play
some disco. Let's play from disco. Let's play some disco.
Let's play some disco.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
But the motherfucking producers, he said to yourself, let me
let me slow this down. And these are the things
are Presice not talking about. Why not jazz heard Albert

don't care about this racket? Nobody? Yes, crazy, I watched

the press last last summer. I'm like, how on earth,
how on earth could he let stuff like this goes by?
I'm sure Bam got a story. I'm sure Breakout got
a story. I'm sure her got a story.

Speaker 7 (01:21:55):
So now sure should I wait?

Speaker 3 (01:21:58):
For now?

Speaker 1 (01:21:59):
We canna keep talking. Okay, let's get geek. I'm gonna
take your guys down a rabbit hole. Let's go, let's
go over to the to the easel.

Speaker 7 (01:22:07):
Yeah, okay, so.

Speaker 16 (01:22:10):

Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
This took much thinking because the way DJ's playing music
the right way was heavy on the tone R. But
in order for me to e to connect the short runway,

I needed a quicker way to do this. This took
me about two and a half years to put this
formula together because I kept saying to myself, the non
disco DJs I heav you on a tone are to
disco DJs to heavy on the tone. Are I have
to stay heavy on the tone ar And it turned

out that I couldn't right. And here's my formula. It's
called the quick mix theory. This is this is pretty
much the math in me and this is how I did.
How old are you coming up with this? How old
are you now? About fifteen? Look at this. You got

into perspective.

Speaker 7 (01:23:23):
About fifteen sixteen.

Speaker 13 (01:23:31):
And there are DJs that make incredible sounds with this.

Speaker 1 (01:23:44):
But I'm not talking about the sound. I'm talking about
the mechanics, the reason why you do it. And here's
the math. Guys.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
Four bars four.

Speaker 1 (01:24:04):
Way equals six counterclockwise revolutions equals full yeah, loop extraction.
And I'm gonna do this on the turn tables in
a little while, but I'm gonna show you to be

deep in a rabbit hole right now. Guys, final one.
Any watch outs I can see clockwise? Thank you.

Speaker 17 (01:24:58):
My drawing is fucked up. I'm not good like that
DJ mixer. I'll this run table.

Speaker 1 (01:25:16):
This one is going counterclockwise counter and is this without
you queuing it in headphones? Is this why you can?

Speaker 6 (01:25:31):
But I didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
I didn't figure that out until later. You could, But
you're absolutely correct counterclockwise, so four bars forwards, it's equal
to six counter clockwise revs r evs. This way of DJing,

the mechanics.

Speaker 6 (01:26:13):
Of this has not changed them fifty years.

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
That's not.

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
I said something on the internet many years ago. I'll
put up ten grand for anybody that can do this
without using my mechanics. Not the machine, not a computer.

I'm talking about human.

Speaker 7 (01:26:47):
Beings like you and me.

Speaker 6 (01:26:50):
Let's see still waiting, Hey, do you want to do this?

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
Man? So, God is wonderful. I've been able to Nori.
I'm trying to figure out what's going when you Okay,
If then I did this when I was sixteen, I'll

be sixty seven in the week and a half. God
is absolutely wonderful.

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
Bring bring cheering for Scram Jones. Is bring Scram Johnson.

Speaker 5 (01:27:35):
Because I want to get into the music.

Speaker 1 (01:27:36):
But before we get into that, we're somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:27:39):
You played overseas that you was just like wow, that
you was shocked that you went to Brazil.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
Brazil, ninety thousand people she but there were a few
that I played sixty thousand. On the average, I played
twenty five thousand, fifteen thousand. Now light work, I don't.
I don't do.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
I'm like, you put them over there by on that side,
by bad, yeah, over there on that side, yeah yeah,
by my bad.

Speaker 5 (01:28:11):
Oh, come on, you're supposed to be holding the chair,
not Jamie Jesus.

Speaker 1 (01:28:14):
Yeah, riggers, ramming, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I
called us do super fingers. The fu's Graham Jones.

Speaker 2 (01:28:25):
You just want to shine out of here, bro.

Speaker 1 (01:28:35):
So you said Brazil is ninety thousand people. Get the
ship out of me. What was really cool about it?

Speaker 7 (01:28:41):
It's like.

Speaker 1 (01:28:43):
The big E d M DJs. They do that ship
in the regular So when I first okay, got into
playing with them on the lineup, I remember my my
agents said, I'm gonna put you on the lineup. That's
a little different from what you used to do in
the clubs, you know. And the whole ship, you know,
it's this E d M DJ So I'm like, what

does that mean? Electronic dance music. I'm cocky as a motherfucker,
you know. I'm even the office, the whole ship. We
drive to the to the to the thing for the
sound check. This is the first time here at a
d M. I'm looking at what I'm getting read of
the plane in front of Nervous is a motherfucker. I'm like,

I never did no ship like this outdoors, me and
my little lonely turntables in this gigantic ass tape stage
with nothing on it. I said to myself, I'm gonna
have to do this a little. I'm not to go
seriously hip hop with this ship. One thing about the
E d M DJ is they grabbed. They acquired those

audiences very easily, but they ain't asked the audience to
do anything.

Speaker 7 (01:29:53):
I'm like, oh m hm, I I'm going.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Into laptop e hip hop paray. I'm gonna flip this
motherfucker upside down and yep, Apache take me to the
Mardi Gras.

Speaker 7 (01:30:15):
Weren't that bitch.

Speaker 1 (01:30:18):

Speaker 7 (01:30:20):
From that point on, I said to myself, this is
what I want to do on this level.

Speaker 1 (01:30:24):
I got to insert hip hop and every anti hip
hop circuit possible so they know what we fucking DJs
can do.

Speaker 2 (01:30:36):
To see.

Speaker 1 (01:30:38):
Ninety thousand people go like this, yes, stupid that energy
Mine Woggley And then I talked to some of these
idiom fans. It says.

Speaker 7 (01:30:55):
We come from nineties hip hop.

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):

Speaker 7 (01:30:59):
I'm like, well, he says, yeah, we come from eighties
and nineties hip hop. But we just got introduced to
this is where we are.

Speaker 1 (01:31:07):
So when I'm playing these joints, motherfucker's just reacting. I'm like,
let's go hard, let's go apatche, just go this and
that that flip the whole room upside down. Wonderful, look, man, wonderful.
Look what's going on with the scram Scoop? So good
to see your baby.

Speaker 5 (01:31:24):
Because when scramplay DM, he takes ecstasy.

Speaker 1 (01:31:28):
I guess you got it. You don't have that experience.
You don't, I'll just ask, you know. That's what talk about.
I'm straight sober when I play because I got I'm
seeing things go reverse fort reverse forward four six six

four four six, the inversion. I gotta be really sober
when I do it, you know. But you know, you know,
out of all of this, I love the idea of
watching my mechanics and watched people like Scram play.

Speaker 5 (01:32:04):
Not the name Flash right? Was you a comic book guy?

Speaker 11 (01:32:09):

Speaker 7 (01:32:11):
I got Flash on Flash Gordon.

Speaker 18 (01:32:13):

Speaker 1 (01:32:14):
I lived nine twenty seven Fox Street in the Bronx
and then down the block. One of my best friends
was named Gordon. Now what I did do is I
ran fast. I ran fast, so Gordon named me Flash.
And then three years later I moved my UH set

and I got down with a gentleman by the name
of Me and Jean, and it was it was on
Boston Road where I started doing my parties at a
place called the Black.

Speaker 7 (01:32:44):
Door, right, And.

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
I want to say seventy two, seventy three, seventy four,
I can't remember exactly.

Speaker 7 (01:32:55):
One of the most notorious gangsters.

Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
Like, when we did our parties, we knew our motherfuckers
is gonna try to pluck it up, so we had security.
Some people were allowed to carry the gun, some weren't.
Joe Kid was allowed to carry the gun. We knew
he wasn't gonna pop off for nobody. He was kind
of just watching my back him in a castanovs, right.

So yeah, they were security. They were my security, you know,
along with the Boston Road Boston roll crew. And it
was New Year's seven. I'm gonna say seventy three, let
me say seventy four. Let me just say I'm bad
with days. After the party was over, he says, you

handle those turntables like a grand master. Oh, I'm like,
what did you just say? He says, you handle these
turntables like a grand master. The next day I went
to every library possible trying to find out what that

word meant. Karate, right, and then karate and the people
that do the chest. Bruce Lee was big with us
back in the day. If he was a DJing party
and we was going to see Bruce Lee, Bruce Lee
was big so and I can remember after Joe Kidd
did that, I'm walking down the street because I was

just DJ Flash.

Speaker 7 (01:34:24):
Now I'm going.

Speaker 1 (01:34:25):
Master, grand Master flash.

Speaker 7 (01:34:29):
Master, rand Master, rand Master Flash.

Speaker 1 (01:34:32):
And I got used to it, and did Rach Hanner
put it on the flyers grand Master Flash and the
beat box, you know, and then our crowd just got
bigger and bigger and bigger, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:34:41):
And now you, you and Grandmaster Cast ever had anything
because of the grand Master's.

Speaker 9 (01:34:48):
I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
Grand Master Cast was called something else before that original
grand Master. You know, I have, I mean me and it.

Speaker 7 (01:35:04):
We love each other, we ain't be for with each other, right, But.

Speaker 2 (01:35:09):
So how did you feel like because you had to
use the first grand Master, then he was going about
a different name and then he came up with grand Master.

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
I mean, we we grew up together. I didn't. I
didn't have no problem with it. You know, It's just
that I learned quickly because I was an idiot when
I signed to sugar Hill. When I got older, it's
like anything you do copyrighted trademarket because what happened to
me in the record business. So I you know, if

you're going to use it, if you're gonna use grand Master,
I'm gonna pop up first.

Speaker 7 (01:35:48):
So there are a few people that want to call himself.

Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
Grand Master, but they're saying Joseph Sadler is the owner
of the title.

Speaker 7 (01:35:58):
Joseph Sadler's me.

Speaker 1 (01:35:59):
You know, you learned. You learn when you get burned,
you learn. And it was a time when I was ignorant.
I'm dumb, So you get smart after a while and
you pick a shit out, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (01:36:11):
How competitive were were you guys, the different crews back then?

Speaker 1 (01:36:16):
You know something, we didn't really battle with each other
too much. You know now that you know hindsight is this.
We were like four corporations. Breakout had the North, Cork
had the West, I had the East, Bam had Bronx River.

Whenever I wasn't playing, I go see herk or I'd
go see Bam, I go see Breakout. Me and Breakout
never played together. I think that bad or HERK played together,
but I never played with HERK. Me and band played together,
but it wasn't. This thing didn't become a battle thing
until the next tier came, because now people is battling

for their existence. The fourth fors Hacken was already kings
in our whole lives. We were established. So all the
crews that became the understudies or became prodigies, now they're
battling for this. And that's when a lot of people
were going into different territories. But with the first four,

the problem why we we didn't play with each other
whole lot is because the gang violence was.

Speaker 7 (01:37:31):

Speaker 1 (01:37:32):
You go into a wrong area, you might not make
it out of there. So and I'm talking about the
black space of Black Pearls, Savage Skulls, seven, Immortal Freeze Donation,
because that's what right now. Now we're gonna go into
Bam so Bam shopping for records having the most beats

Numero Uno Bam had more beats. If you played a
patche he had four different versions. If you played the bells,
he had six different versions. He had records like where
did you get that from? Kind of records. You couldn't
fuck with his collection. So let's not look past the

situation that he's in right now.

Speaker 7 (01:38:26):
If I were to.

Speaker 1 (01:38:29):
Do a short blurb on Bam, King of the Beats,
absolutely and he's doing that calmed down this gang violent shit.
And I think, personally, in my opinion, if he didn't
do that, they wouldn't have been too many block parties
because their motherfuckers would have been up in there shooting,
stabbing the whole shit. So a lot of them groups

he turned them around, and then these groups became security
for a lot of us, like a lot of the
Black Spades and the Pearls became casting overs. They were
my crew that rode with me on security, along with
the Boss and road crew. So he that that day
he did he did a big thing there. You know
what I'm saying, Uh, I miss him, but you know

he's sitting on the situation that he's in.

Speaker 7 (01:39:18):
He was big on that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:19):
Uh HERK if I do a short blurb on him.
He had a sound system that we all wanted. He
could play some of these old old house party records
on his sound system, and that ship was absolutely amazing.

Speaker 17 (01:39:39):
His ship was.

Speaker 1 (01:39:42):
In incredible sounding. His record collection was also pretty decent.
The technical aspect, me and him, we go back with that,
back and forth with that. I say me, he say him,
wait it again for part, the technical part or who
did one on the ones and the whole ship and

how it works out? You know, his thing it's called
America around minus is called the quick Mixedterey, you know.
And I love the ground he walks on. You know.
When he got sick, I was one of the first
first people looking for him, and I went to Yankee Stadium,
not to only see the acts, but just strictly to
go see him in his dressing room and see how

he's doing.

Speaker 7 (01:40:26):
I'm saying, what's up, old man?

Speaker 1 (01:40:28):
He said, Yo, I'm cool, old man, I says, Man,
lots of wars, lots of we went through, you know.

Speaker 7 (01:40:35):
He looks at me. I look at him.

Speaker 1 (01:40:39):
I said, I ain't fight no fucking more. He said,
I ain't fight no more either. Man. We're too old
for that shit.

Speaker 7 (01:40:42):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:40:43):
But now it's a time. Yeah, yeah, Cause me and
Heck we hurt. We battle about who did what and
what did who?

Speaker 2 (01:40:51):

Speaker 19 (01:40:51):
You know so me.

Speaker 1 (01:40:55):
I think these years now this year especially Nori is
show and tell no more quiet, holding it, marking it,
you know, and hiding what it is. It's time for
Hirk's crew to talk. It's time for a Breakour's crew
to talk. It's time for band like it should be.
And quite frankly, I would love it if all of

us can sit down at one table. This will be
the biggest This would be the biggest story and hip
hop ever, just sit down, have it and tell stories.
How was it at your mom and dad's house and
how was it and what got you into it? I'm

telling you my portion of it, but it's three more
and that adds on to how this thing progressed.

Speaker 2 (01:41:46):
All right, So it's four y'all to get together. And
then y'all say we want to add one MC.

Speaker 1 (01:41:55):
Why you gotta fuck with me regard actually give you
if I want to have one MC, one wrapper one
in this.

Speaker 2 (01:42:09):
Y'all falling one rapper at Eddy ever in time, any
area in time. I'm getting the about it any aer
in time, won man, It's on you, everyone say flash
just you will to pick the m C.

Speaker 1 (01:42:23):
Every MC want to be there too, Okay, m HM
one one. I'm not Yeah, that was warned about your father.

Speaker 7 (01:42:43):
Want to he said, are you gonna ask.

Speaker 1 (01:42:47):
Getting questions? One?

Speaker 5 (01:42:49):
I want see join y'all at dinner and talk some ship.

Speaker 1 (01:42:54):
It's up to you not to one one Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I get you too.

Speaker 20 (01:43:01):
Before if you were still here, I would say cowboy
que cowboy yeah makes a noise, fag.

Speaker 3 (01:43:16):
Don't forget the fourth the blurb for the fourth. But
you said body he said, hrk yourself.

Speaker 7 (01:43:22):
Yeah, and breakout?

Speaker 1 (01:43:24):
Did you say the blurb for him? What you would
say about him? All?

Speaker 2 (01:43:27):
Breakout because he's like, out of everyone that you name,
he's like the.

Speaker 5 (01:43:31):
Least known of right.

Speaker 7 (01:43:32):
That's that's why I wanted.

Speaker 1 (01:43:35):
Breakout first DJ to have a female MC shot Rock
up the shot Rock Shot Rock, you know, Like now, I.

Speaker 7 (01:43:50):
I felt so sorry for us because this is the
male dominated that.

Speaker 1 (01:43:54):
Was grew up on my back down right now, absolutely connected,
I'm going back get it. She was only the MC
that and she had to contend with all of us.

You know, So DJ Breakout in the four plus one,
so break your Shot Rock has shot Rock sound system.
It wasn't pretty like herks, but that ship was loud
like hurks and if I could speak scientifically, his base
bottoms will reverse. The wolf was put in reverse and

he threw the hole in the back. They re poored
it and he had him angled. They were garbage cans,
the big garbage cag with the base bottoms. So when
he played the big beat boo like the bass was
like gum. It was incredible. He had an amazing sound system.

Was called the Mighty Sasquatch was called the Hercules Mines,
was called the Gladiator. But my ship was kind of whack.
Bands was just I don't know what bands was called.
I don't think BAM had a name, you know, but
these are the things that I love talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:45:25):
We love hearing it now, White lines how much cocaine
was in that studio session.

Speaker 7 (01:45:37):
This guy, let me be totally honest with you.

Speaker 2 (01:45:39):
By that time, by the way, we was looking at
the lyrics coming here.

Speaker 1 (01:45:47):
I don't write lyrics, okay, So like we were probably
the tightest unit in the streets, mean and five, you know,
we just go being easy, Mike. Then when we got

into the record situation and I realized that we weren't
weren't in a great situation. I was the first one
that wanted to leave. Uh, but it didn't happen that way.
So from the six of us, three went with me
to Electra and three pretty much stayed back. That record

was on its way to being made. We left by then,
so Mel and the rest of them made that record.
So that's actually million Maail's record.

Speaker 5 (01:46:44):
Wow, I'm not gonna lie.

Speaker 2 (01:46:46):
Whenever I met a like a like a like a
white industry party and that record, come on, you know, I.

Speaker 1 (01:46:51):
Know the white people, but I know it's a great
Millie is a great rid. But by that time we
had split, you know, and yeah, that was his record.

Speaker 6 (01:47:01):
You found out sample of the Cavern.

Speaker 2 (01:47:03):
Of course I did right your record because people credit
that to the some say reality rap. Right, so people
say that's the first song that details reality rap.

Speaker 1 (01:47:14):
And then some people.

Speaker 2 (01:47:15):
Outright say that that is the first message because white
message was first. Yeah, but that's broken glass. Everybo thea
talking about getting coked. That's a message I ain't gonna
live man, white. And we thought they were subtle until

this morning we listened to the white White.

Speaker 1 (01:47:44):
Dig I'm like, Diego, you know, it's record better than me.
But I come to find out Diego's.

Speaker 2 (01:47:49):
He's he's reading the words and I'm like, damn, these
words are pretty foul.

Speaker 1 (01:47:55):
Like a great writer, tell me split by till me split,
and uh they continued on, and we continued on with
an electro pretty much.

Speaker 2 (01:48:06):
Sylvia Rome wasn't there yet all Sylvia Rome was there.

Speaker 1 (01:48:14):
She's not.

Speaker 7 (01:48:14):
She wasn't in a powerful position.

Speaker 1 (01:48:16):
And she said now and she deserves every bit of
what she did because she was always the first one
to say, let's work it out.

Speaker 7 (01:48:28):
She didn't she she didn't really Sylvia.

Speaker 1 (01:48:31):
It wasn't really business business talking was more like friendship,
like what does you what you want to do?

Speaker 7 (01:48:38):
How can we make it work? Could we tweak it
a little bit?

Speaker 1 (01:48:42):
You know? She had like a heart. That's how I
remember m Sylvia Sylvia Rome.

Speaker 2 (01:48:49):
And how about the masters? Did you guys go back
and get your masters?

Speaker 1 (01:48:53):
Like everyone?

Speaker 18 (01:48:54):

Speaker 2 (01:48:55):
Whoa so yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:48:57):
I said no. That got a little messy with the
record label and the group. Yeah, you know, because after
a while we we broke up. We all went out
in separate ways. I went on and did what I
had to do, but then we got back together to
figure out how we could.

Speaker 7 (01:49:20):
Make this happen.

Speaker 1 (01:49:21):
Because New World now, shit could be played on things
like Spotify and all this. It's a new all these
new lanes and the whole ship. So we had to
get together and figure out how we could. So we
got a company who handles that right now, so we
get royalties coming in, you know, I get a couple
of checks now finally, So it's it's not bad. I

do think if I had understood the business back then,
things would have been financially much better now.

Speaker 7 (01:49:52):
But you live and you learn.

Speaker 1 (01:49:53):
You know, there's some things, you know a lot of things.
I'm perfect at that type ship contract with illegal and
this and that that that didn't have a clue about that.

Speaker 7 (01:50:01):
But now our ship plays, we get paid.

Speaker 2 (01:50:06):
And Rick James was the first person to tell you
because this like roomors like even a prince like not
wanting to deal with artists who didn't own their masters that, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:50:17):
He didn't want to deal with artists like not not
not to with it, like he didn't want to nas.

Speaker 2 (01:50:21):
It's the famous story like we act nas like what
is the person that turned you down? And now I said,
one time he asked Prince to get on the record,
and Prince just asked him, do you own your master's
and then Nas was like no, and he was just like, yeah,
well get back to me.

Speaker 1 (01:50:33):
When you own you probably you probably he knew what
the game was like. And this is back then Prince
ben dead like ye, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:50:41):
He said something like I don't want to put the
like the executives of the I don't want to put
their kids through college.

Speaker 5 (01:50:46):
I'll put yours. That's hard, that's hard, that's hard, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:50:52):
I think of how young Prince was and think.

Speaker 2 (01:50:54):
About how much he must have like NOAs my brother,
think how much he must have fucked Nas up. But
you know, you know, you don't expect that, like you
can't do a record with me? Yeah, do you own
your own master's you know what I mean? Like that
feels it's probably like the smartest answer you could probably
you know, answer with So.

Speaker 1 (01:51:11):
WHOA I didn't know about I didn't know that about
prin don't know that about Rick James.

Speaker 2 (01:51:15):
Because like Rick telling you, like yo, you're schooling you
about publishing? Was that like like that type of insensative
I knew I was in trouble after I talked to Rick.
Business wise, I knew cocaine and all that. Rick still
knew his ship.

Speaker 1 (01:51:31):
I knew we was in deep ship. We know, uh
learning the business because we learned the business too late. Wow,
we was really young. So but I'll say this again,
with the work that I put into this, that's why

I say birthday, I don't give a fuck about it
my death day. What am I going to be behind
for you younger people?

Speaker 2 (01:52:03):
Yeah, because man, I'm gonna just tell you man like
you are, like, I'm gonna I'm gonna read a message
and I'm gonna y'all tell.

Speaker 7 (01:52:15):
Me and I want to talk about some people.

Speaker 1 (01:52:17):
Many you gotta return whatever you you said something up
over there too. Yeah, get me to do some Get
me do the analog version.

Speaker 2 (01:52:22):
This is someone who says Grandmaster Flash to not hear
his name mentioned in the Crazy Legs with disrespect. F
y I Kirk cannot dj as we do today, he
cannot blend records. Flash invented turntable lism as we know
it today. There's no debating this. Flash invented the slip matt,

which required a slip matt and the art of juggling
a record to seamlessly extend a break, which allowed a
rapper to wrap.

Speaker 1 (01:52:51):
Cowboy was the.

Speaker 2 (01:52:51):
First one to do it Kirk and Bambarda did it
like Jamaican's.

Speaker 1 (01:52:55):
I don't know if that was I don't know if
that was like a shot.

Speaker 2 (01:53:04):
Yeah, hold on, I was born in the Bronx and
did it like Jamaicans did. They just chucked the records
and breaks on without blended. Herk refused to learn how
to juggle flash style and has invented flash to advised

Flash to this day, Flash can tell you the story himself.
You need to interview him. He's the godfather of hip hop.
Herk was the godfather of hip hop party. Bambada had
the streets, big Big, I got you, I.

Speaker 1 (01:53:42):
Got I got said, I don't know what they took
a shot?

Speaker 6 (01:53:52):
Yea, what did you?

Speaker 1 (01:53:52):
What do you think about?

Speaker 9 (01:53:53):
The hell?

Speaker 17 (01:53:53):

Speaker 11 (01:53:54):

Speaker 1 (01:53:55):

Speaker 10 (01:53:55):
Just let many.

Speaker 1 (01:54:00):
Okay, y okay, okay, lady. The enemy, that's the enemy.
It come to the turntable wants to cut me off.
So when you first bought the turntable, it comes with this.

Speaker 3 (01:54:17):
And I'm gonna tell you, ladies and gentlemen, okay, Mike
move man.

Speaker 1 (01:54:21):
I do not to this day, fifty two years later,
I don't understand what the purpose of this survey, because,
like I told you earlier in the interview. The disco
DJ had a long runway I roll with it was
really short. So when I moved the microphone closer to him, guys,

So when I put the record, I'm saying to myself,
I gotta get to the beat quicker and connect the
duplicate records quicker to make the seamless loop when I
put the needle down, because this is the right way,

which is being sarcastic. That's when he says the way, Yeah,
this is the right way to DJ, because that's the
way we're doing it. That's the way they DJ. But
when I started figuring out when I look at when
I looked at the record, I knew to myself, Flash,
it is fucking impossible. Because you look at the record

this she got ten million grooves. How can I pick
the arm up and hit that spot every time and
keep it seamless and smooth. It's impossible. And that's when
I started thinking to myself, I have to learn how
to play the turntable the wrong way. I have to
go outside of what the norm was according to the

disco DJs and the non disco DJs that were heavy
on their tone arm and my first move was to
study the components.

Speaker 7 (01:56:11):
The cartridge.

Speaker 1 (01:56:13):
Contriin comes in two classifications, ceramic and magnetic. The ceramic
culture came out in the sixties the seventies, but it
didn't translate well over records that had heavy bottom. So
here comes to the magnetic cartridge. Then I studied the needle.

The needle was called the stylist. Stylist comes in two classifications.
There's the elliptical. Now this is the groove. The elliptical
needles sat in the groove halfway because when I tried
to spin it back, it kept spinning out of the groove.

It's epherical. Conical needle was shaped.

Speaker 7 (01:57:01):
Like a nail.

Speaker 1 (01:57:05):
So when that sat in the groove, and I went
back and stayed in the groove. Although the elyptical needle
sound better, the conical needles sound like shit, but it
stayed inside of the groove. Needle figured out turntable. I

went in the backyard, took as many turntables out of
this brown Blox stereos that was in the backyard. Maga
the box Fisher price seen if One day I was
coming home from the school, there was a store and
a Hunts Point. Part of the Bronx called Dick mar

There was this gray battleship, nasty looking table in the window.
It had these things on it looked like they had
the mumps. I go inside this door and I say
to the first salesperson, I'm doing a study on turntables.

Is it possible because you take that turntable out of
the window because I'm doing his study. He says, I'll
be right back. He comes right back with two football
player dudes, because he was under the impression that I
was trying to steal or take the turntable, and I says, no, sir,
I was not. I'm doing a study on turntables, and
I just want you to just put it on account
to plug it in because I want to test something.

And what I wanted to test is when the platter
is in a state of inertia, how long does it
take to pick up the speed? Turntables back then took
a whole turn, half a turn, three quarters of a turn.
Just particular turntable picked up in a quarter of a turn,
which meant the tor the muscle on that platter will

be able to go clocklockwise while I went counterclockwise. The
big problem was I didn't have the money, so I
asked at Vicmar, which was the name of the store,
how much would the turntables. He says, there's seventy five
dollars apiece. And I looked down at the company. I

never heard of it before. It was this little label
called Techniques thirty five dollars apiece and we ain't got
me a messager job. I worked at Cramp text Fabrics
fourteenth for a boat throwaway and I went delivering swatches
to different company and this is swatches is like the

material that design is used before they make the outfit.
I also used to go to the supermarkets and any
elderly person that needed help with their their their bags,
their groceries and stuff, I would help them to their house.
So I had to make one hundred and fifty dollars
to get these two turntables. And when I finally got

them and I got them home, there was this big
nasty rubber thing on this Now in my mind, I'm
already saying to myself, I have to be able to
go counterclockwise, and when you try to go counterclockwise with that,
you will notice the whole platter is going counterclockwise. I'm
like no, this is not working. My mother was a seamstress.

I watched her make our clothes polyester rayon, silk, cotton, leather,
swede felt.

Speaker 6 (02:00:53):
Let me, that's case saying.

Speaker 1 (02:00:56):
Felt. I remember member felt because in grade school we
used to cut out letters and if you cut out
letters looking really good, you get five stars. You'll be
going home.

Speaker 16 (02:01:07):
Mommy would like love you open that up. So felt,
it's limb, pray limb.

Speaker 1 (02:01:34):
This became the enemy. Well, mom wasn't looking. No before Mom,
I ran to the material store because I used to
watch the ball make clothes. I'm going through the.

Speaker 13 (02:01:50):
Aisles polyester, rayon, cotton, silk.

Speaker 1 (02:01:56):
Felt. I bought two pieces felt that was the size
of two albums and it was very very length the felt.
So when Mom was looking, I did. I took this
spray starch and I sprayed it on what I called

the wafer, and I called it a way for ladies
and gentlemen. It's because during the Easter, Mom used to
get us shark and take us to the neighborhood church.
And I don't know if you guys know about this.
What during the easy to give you this to a
white wafer thing to eat I called it a wafer.
And when I ironed it and I put it on
the turntable, I called it a wafer an the other

ones today. But there was what the opponent missing. Let me,
let me, let me get that part.

Speaker 21 (02:02:54):
When I put the wafer on top of the platter
and I put the record on top of the wafer,
there still was a degree of resistance because I could
feel it. My sisters on my mom used to make
these chocolate chip cookies on this type of paper.

Speaker 1 (02:03:20):
I cut out the circle amount of it, and then
I put I put the wax paper on this on
the platter, and I put the wafer on the wax paper,
and I put the record on the wafer, and now

no resistance. When I went counter clockwise, problem solved.

Speaker 6 (02:03:53):
How long is that presence?

Speaker 1 (02:03:55):
Give me a second four block or with six counterclockwise.
This is where I got stuck. And this is where
I almost walked away. When I walked away, for about
two or three weeks, I got stuck. Why is it

the vinyl going four bars? Let's take good times? Four bars?
Do do do do do, don't do doom doom doom
do do do do do do do do four bars. Statistically,
it takes the brain four bars to understand a new song.

So for me, the problem for me was I had to.

Speaker 22 (02:04:56):
Play the songs the wrong way. So what I did was,
first things first, I put crayon on.

Speaker 1 (02:05:09):
The mark because this break happens to be on the top.
So now we're gonna do this with one record first,
four boss first, and we're gonna count four bars one, two,
three and four right now, four boss forward? Why is

it if I bring it back four bars? Why might
wrong place? Four bosses went by? It passed the line
four four times, and this.

Speaker 16 (02:05:59):
Is what stoped me, goes Ram, you wear your white
hand wall loom.

Speaker 6 (02:06:08):
Don't don't as the.

Speaker 1 (02:06:13):
Going I wear four moss, Like, why didn't I go
fit the best? Why?

Speaker 6 (02:06:24):
Why it's not really a clear instagram?

Speaker 1 (02:06:32):
Don't answer that with the speed. No it doesn't. That's
to me. That's what I'm thinking.

Speaker 6 (02:06:37):
Speed if necessarily amount of it?

Speaker 1 (02:06:44):
Answer, but she was choo, I don't know what he
did guns right? Go on?

Speaker 23 (02:06:49):
Okay, it's because the average you were cloth the average
seed all that album best falls inside fins thirty three.

Speaker 13 (02:07:03):
And a third.

Speaker 1 (02:07:04):
Because of forty five that will.

Speaker 6 (02:07:05):
Be different than.

Speaker 24 (02:07:08):
Say eight the same year season two more, but I
have to re arrive on the top of the break,
and I'm.

Speaker 1 (02:07:18):
Gonna show you how it works. And the Bird of
the Quick three weeks to feel three, three weeks I
walked away. I was mad at the fall four pause
four with why can't I go? Four bars back? And
I'm in the wrong place.

Speaker 6 (02:07:31):
I got a question.

Speaker 1 (02:07:32):
So any any speed be right? Eddie speed me four
to six, four to six, forty six, any b any
speed forty five, thirty three, sixteen, she could be a
that could be whatever right, I'm gonna show you. Member, man,
hell but I'm kind of seeing four. Okay, I'm gonna
show you right now, let's do. Let's go through it, man,
let's go. Let's go through it now. Good, let's go.

And I'm doing the real basic, no fancy ship seem
as lou.

Speaker 19 (02:08:07):
One two three four five six shick throw, one shoe
three four five six shack.

Speaker 11 (02:08:23):

Speaker 1 (02:08:25):
Let's do it with a rock record. When I told him,
I howk that ship? Let's go.

Speaker 25 (02:08:34):
We a white point record, down, white record, right down,
here we go. One tchoo three four five six shack
throw one two three four five six check.

Speaker 1 (02:08:59):

Speaker 25 (02:09:01):
Let's use a jazz record. This's a jazz record. This
is a Jazz records tough line two three four five

six check bro one two three four five six check.

Speaker 8 (02:09:38):

Speaker 1 (02:09:46):
So now, now there's some songs that are an exception
to the rule and it's just two bars. And if
it's two bars, now this becomes two b effort, this
becomes three counterclockwise resume revolutions, full loop extractions all at this.

Speaker 26 (02:10:08):
How I almost slipped on this record when I heard
this and I put I put the deed.

Speaker 1 (02:10:19):
Now this one. When I went in a record shop,
this death. It was annoying as fucking It was long
as fuck. I almost missed this bitch, and so I

let it play for a little while.

Speaker 8 (02:10:48):
One two three check call one two three check go
one true three check call. This is the quick knick
theory because no, it's because the drunk PAM was so short. Okay,

so if because most of.

Speaker 6 (02:11:20):
Those were similar to BPM.

Speaker 1 (02:11:22):
So my question is would that apply for a one
a house factor or something like that. I'll try that.
I never tried that, But it has to be four bars,
because four bars for four bars like this this this device, this,
this device is static. So four bars on a house
record would still be six counterclockwise to get back to

the beginning of that particular section. You did what I'm saying, Like,
if it's a house beat and it goes into something
funky for four bars, you still would have to go
six count of clockwise to get back with it. Because
this is static. So this works with a record, a
rock record, a jazz record, a blues record, and every

genre of records in the world. So when I figured
this out, this, yes, all of them. This is what
made me so this is this is what made me dangerous.
This is what made me dangerous, and this is what
made DJs had to go back and retool because they

all I'm gonna try, I'm gonna try. This is what
I call let's use seven minutes, let's use that. Have
you on a tone on. I don't give a fuck
who you are. It is impossible to do what I
just did by just doing the tone arm. Now you

have no control of the record. You're doing this. That's
peak rock causes trade record. A rapper cannot wrap on this.

A dancer maybe they could dance all that.

Speaker 27 (02:13:23):
Just now you have no control, no control, right transition
the law come on talking, no, no, no, don't talking,
don't talk in private.

Speaker 1 (02:13:37):
That's it.

Speaker 6 (02:13:39):
The sign between the drops. I seem like you disgratuated,
like bringing it.

Speaker 1 (02:13:43):
Back now.

Speaker 6 (02:13:46):
That what's the sign that this is?

Speaker 1 (02:13:48):
This is this is DJing the right way. This is
DJing the right way. You don't put your hands on
the record too much. You don't you know, and you
put it down and you move it over right, scram

We break the law. Louie turned this into a more code.
We break the law. We're touching our fingertipty and making
the record dirty. We're putting stress on the platter. This
is breaking the law. And it took me almost three
years to break the law.

Speaker 25 (02:14:29):
And when I did this, when all rappers in front.

Speaker 1 (02:14:32):
Of me, he's in good hands telling his story. And
this is when the rappers who were I mean the
producers who were DJs. They knew how to take a
seamless loop and put it into a machine and then
produce the shit out of the fucking beat. So when
people like Nori walk in and says wraps and get out,
he's in good hands. Producer gonna gonna complete the mix.

You know how a recording console. It's like fifty two
fadus a lot of work to put a record together.
This is the type of ship that I'm talking about,
nor that needs to be talked about. Throw him in jail.
You're breaking along a long time.

Speaker 6 (02:15:18):
What about forty.

Speaker 1 (02:15:25):
Material material quake time? Break him in.

Speaker 5 (02:15:39):
No, I wait for he to come back for that one. Damn,
I ain't never better.

Speaker 2 (02:15:47):
Okay, we didn't actually we talked about Rick James. We
didn't understand. We didn't talk about the meaning of that record.
Which one p I m P the s I m
P SIMP that's mel did that record with him? I
didn't even know about the record. Simp the pimp something
like that, Yeah, pimp the sim.

Speaker 1 (02:16:09):
You know it is. And this is the ship that
got Sylvia so pissed off because Sylvia Robbinson, what cause
sugar Hill Motown called sugar Hill for Mail to guest
star on a Rick James record. So, but Rick James
knew who I was, he knew the group, and he

knew that Grand Master Flash with the trademark, with the
mark that was going to.

Speaker 7 (02:16:36):
Sell the record.

Speaker 1 (02:16:37):
So when he didn't put Melody mail, that made sugar
Hill Records very angry. But that was a mail and
that was a deal. Long after I left right, was
doing a few things that nothing happened. Let's put it
that way, Okay, okay, But if I had it to
do over again, I do just exact same way, man,
because I love what I do, all right?

Speaker 5 (02:16:59):
And then talk about get down the was that on Netflix?

Speaker 1 (02:17:04):
Is that based on you?

Speaker 28 (02:17:07):

Speaker 1 (02:17:08):
Here's here's the thing about Boss Lehmann. Bos Lehman would
take this big can and he would make this ship
look like the most incredible ship ever. And this is
why I love Boss learning so much because nobody else
other than the people who made Wild Style gave a
fuck about wanting to come into the Bronx and film it.

So when I met him, he wanted me to just
be to help him with uh how the clothing was
back then and kind of like a you know, a
small role. But then what was happening was as he
was filming, getting putting it together, and he would ask

me to come down to say, what do you think
about this scene? I say, that was the wrong area
of the Bronx, Like he was spending you know a
lot of money on the wrong area shooting. And so
then he asked me to be a producer with him,
and then he asked me to stay home for my toys.

Speaker 7 (02:18:13):
I said, well, if you can master.

Speaker 1 (02:18:14):
Money that I make on my toys and I'll stay
home and he did. Wow. So from there then one day,
you know, shooting, he says, man, I need to put
you in this.

Speaker 7 (02:18:25):
I need to get to find somebody to play you
in this.

Speaker 1 (02:18:28):
I'm like, well, let's get the fuck out of here,
so I'll get down to get down, you know, he
tells you this.

Speaker 7 (02:18:33):
You know, I'm going to my area to work.

Speaker 1 (02:18:35):
He's going to this area to work, like passing each
other in the hallway, like I'm like, yeah, whatever. About
three weeks later, I come to work. He asked me
to come in this office.

Speaker 8 (02:18:46):

Speaker 1 (02:18:47):
He and I walk in the office and I'm like,
who's your mother? Just like me, Oh shoo, who's your mother?
Wait about hold on, yeah, except who's your mother?

Speaker 2 (02:19:03):

Speaker 1 (02:19:03):
Who's who's your How you walking in the office? Who's
your mother? No?

Speaker 11 (02:19:07):

Speaker 1 (02:19:07):
Walk in. I looked at him and I said, because
I was like, what's your mother's name? Because he looked
just like me. And sometimes we do things.

Speaker 7 (02:19:16):
You know, and we don't know.

Speaker 1 (02:19:20):
On the hunt. No, I thought that he was my son,
I know, not.

Speaker 5 (02:19:35):
You know so to smart.

Speaker 1 (02:19:36):
So bos Bo's got his bozs. You know. He said
that she to be in pastor in the hallways. So
I didn't take that shit serious. And then he says,
your class coming to AUSO, come in to office. I
want you to meet somebody I'm walking here. He looks
at me. I look at him. I asked him, what's

his mother's name? I respectfully, because I mean, I'll say
I had fun on the road and I did some things,
you know, and people.

Speaker 2 (02:20:07):
That is knw listening to this. He is saying he
was the original snipe flo.

Speaker 1 (02:20:15):
Oh my god, why over there? Take down? So I
asked him and then I found out, you know who
was you know? He told me, told me his background,
his family background. I was like, okay, let's go to work.

Speaker 7 (02:20:36):
Let me teach you.

Speaker 1 (02:20:36):
So I taught him somewhat of the basics. I didn't
want I didn't want to play the role. He needed
somebody younger to play a young flash. So he had
to scour the world in front of somebody, and he
found he found his dude. That ship I'm Michael. That
made me think, on planet Earth, we all have a duplicate.
The double Ganger is that what they called it.

Speaker 3 (02:20:59):
That's legitimate, what they called a double ganger. Everybody has
an exact twins somewhere in the world.

Speaker 1 (02:21:05):
Double ganger.

Speaker 2 (02:21:06):
Oh ship, I think right, like, Oh, that's bigley up.

Speaker 7 (02:21:12):
Were especially do before good Kid Man.

Speaker 1 (02:21:16):
Good Kid took me a by the month to teach
him how to just do the basics, you know, so
that you can form on the get down.

Speaker 7 (02:21:21):
So let me tell you something.

Speaker 1 (02:21:23):
That was not a realization of the hood in the Bronx.
But that wasn't the intention, right, The intention was to
take elements and then glorify it with his story. And
the one good thing about that that ship gave attention
to the Bronx. It gave it. Even motherfuckers saying that

fucking ship was whack. It wasn't real.

Speaker 7 (02:21:47):
It was whatever gave attention to the Bronx.

Speaker 2 (02:21:51):
Was you an executive produco in that series?

Speaker 1 (02:21:52):
I was a producer. I was a producer. Curves Blow
was the producer. It was a few, but I was
producers all. It was the greatest experienced to be able
to just see how a soundtrack is written, and seeing
the motherfuckers with the strings and the whole ship, and
to see how a movie is made, like to be
in the back room and see how it's constructed.

Speaker 7 (02:22:13):
Fucking amazing.

Speaker 3 (02:22:14):
It was.

Speaker 1 (02:22:15):
It filmed in the Bronx. It was filmed in the
Bronx and it was filmed and then Boz rented the
area in Queens and this must have been the size
of ten fucking walmarts and they replicated a bedroom in
the seventies, they replicated and this is where he asked
me to go to the clothing department to make sure
that white clothing at the time, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (02:22:36):
Silver Cup Studios and Queens.

Speaker 15 (02:22:38):
Oh was it.

Speaker 1 (02:22:41):
As soon as you get the bridge. Yeah, this ship
was like this ship was like a whole city block
and each room had a replication of like the kitchen,
a bedroom, you know, clothing and the whole shit. And
he asked me to just kind of oversee a lot
of this and then from there he did this glorifying
thing that he does, but it wasn't real, but he

damned Sho'll put brocks on a map on it with
that shit there for real?

Speaker 2 (02:23:06):
Thinking for that now, on that soundtrack, you got Teddy
Penneygraft on that soundtrack.

Speaker 5 (02:23:10):
Yeah, did you work with Teddy Penny.

Speaker 7 (02:23:12):
Gra No, I actually did the remix on it.

Speaker 5 (02:23:14):
Oh, that's the remix.

Speaker 1 (02:23:15):
So what happened was they needed certain records in the
show with less talking, so he I guess he cut
a deal with Sony, and Sony allowed me to go
into the vaults and see the masters, and I was

able to take masters like I wish I could go
back in there now, Like you know, you and I
we we look for that shit forever and ever. But
imagine going in there and seeing motherfuckers with really white
coats on. You got to put gloves on because his
masters are so old that they could break, you know
what I'm saying. I'm looking at like Miles Davis. I'm
looking at like fucking Cheryl Lane. I'm looking at I'm like,

oh my god, I'm looking at the mass that made
these songs that I cut up and do what I do.
I'm looking at the fucking original mask and it was
tons of them, and they just said go around and
just pick what you wanted.

Speaker 6 (02:24:13):
Wow, And they're gonna let you open it.

Speaker 7 (02:24:15):
Up and you know what you want. And they baked.

Speaker 1 (02:24:18):
They baked the poppy dams.

Speaker 7 (02:24:21):
You can't stay. I need a baseline from No no, no.

Speaker 6 (02:24:23):
No, the.

Speaker 1 (02:24:27):
Studio they let me do it. They cook the stems
back because they don't want us, they don't want us
to have that.

Speaker 6 (02:24:34):
That's a museum.

Speaker 1 (02:24:35):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's that's pretty much that.

Speaker 6 (02:24:38):

Speaker 1 (02:24:38):
You ever met Prince of Michael. I met Prince when
I was when I did the Chris Rockshaw was his
music director, and to sit down with him and just
talk to him about life, very low speaking, very calm,
very intelligent. That ship blew my motherfucking mind. Man, to

see that ship, man, Prince, Prince else I never got
yet because she's she's really a little guy, little guy,
you know. So it was wearing heels though, man, whatever
it was.

Speaker 7 (02:25:15):
He was a great fucking artist.

Speaker 1 (02:25:18):
Yeah, it was so doing that. Doing that, you know,
I got a chance to meet you know, that's probably
when I first the first chance I got to sit
and talk with jay Z because he came on the show. Wow,
you know, so I had it was quite a moving
experience to learn TV. So I've been behind movies and
I've been behind TV shows and I remember when the
Chris rock Show was on. She was supposed to be

just a pilost, but the ship went five years wow,
and then year five we both said let's let's let's
jump off on the ship is doing hot, because sometimes
you could do a sequel sequel, sequel, sequel and she
just get whack after a while. So he jumped off
when the.

Speaker 7 (02:25:53):
Ship was hot.

Speaker 1 (02:25:53):
It's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (02:25:54):
Let's talk about B Street, the street That wasn't me,
that was Mail twelve and single Vital get the fun.

Speaker 1 (02:26:03):
Damn you got your name on everything. It was all over, Norrie.
The business did what the business did. I'm much smarter
than now, a much moreder now. So limitally are you
teople who's tuning in right?

Speaker 2 (02:26:21):
When you google this? When you google this actually comes
up right, all of these these words with your name
attacks you're saying for people who don't know that most
of this this was the record label because your name
was hotter at the time, or was that name?

Speaker 5 (02:26:35):
Grand Master Flash and.

Speaker 2 (02:26:36):
The Furious Five together simultaneously.

Speaker 1 (02:26:40):
It's that humantained clan. Okay, it's like this here, grand
Master Flash and the Furious Five. It's six people. Grand
Master Flash was hot from the streets, made hot by
the record label. And there was a time when I
had to go in to court to fight for my

name because it was getting a little bit out of hand.
I think at that particular time, I lost everything. But
when the day came when the judge says that this
marriage has to be ended, and Joseph Sadness awarded his name,

this is the court's downtown with the White Steps. Who
was fighting for your name? The label, the label was
trying to keep it. So when the judge awarded Sugar Hills.
So when when when when the judge awarded me my name?

Speaker 7 (02:27:43):
I ran out the.

Speaker 1 (02:27:46):
The judge said it in judge terms, and my lawyer
is looking at me, like, what's.

Speaker 7 (02:27:52):
The matter with you?

Speaker 1 (02:27:52):
You just got your name back. I ran out of
that courtroom. And the way the courtrooms are is like
the White Steps. I felt that all my knees and
I thank God, and I was crying like a baby
because all I wanted was my name back. Whatever you
took for me financially, okay, fine, please take that. Because

I think at that particular time, I had done enough
imprint in the business and our little business of hip
hop that the world would take me in.

Speaker 7 (02:28:25):
And they did.

Speaker 1 (02:28:26):
So that's when I started all over again. I started
in clubs and I started playing alone. And I took
the theory to the next level, and eighteen years later,
here we are. So it was rough, but you know,
there's faith and his belief, and I'm very spiritual. I'm

big on gods. You know a lot of things that
I do.

Speaker 2 (02:28:53):
Guess now, what was your name before before DJ Flash?
Just know you said, but your boy didn't do that
because you was fast, run fast? So what do you
have a name before that?

Speaker 11 (02:29:07):

Speaker 2 (02:29:08):
No, no, Mines was empty Yahoo with the ball to being.
I had a funcked up name. You ain't have you
just a flash name. He's always had a fly Repeat
that again? Is the name empty Yahoo with the ball
to Bean.

Speaker 1 (02:29:21):
You didn't come out with the record with that name.
That's big, That's what you always came up with.

Speaker 2 (02:29:31):
Flash. You always had a full flash.

Speaker 1 (02:29:33):
Yeah, okay, the Grand Master was put in front of it,
you know.

Speaker 7 (02:29:36):
But other than that, no, I wasn't. I wasn't nothing else.

Speaker 1 (02:29:38):
Right, So we got a quick time.

Speaker 2 (02:29:42):
Yeah, they could do a quick time. But Scram is
gonna be the designated drinker because you're not drinking.

Speaker 6 (02:29:46):
I'm not drinking drinking.

Speaker 1 (02:29:47):
No designated drinking. Come on, no reason, I'm fast.

Speaker 2 (02:29:56):
No, Yeah, Scram gotta take shots. Man, Yeah, come well,
you gotta do it in the name a motherfucker.

Speaker 6 (02:30:02):
I got three questions.

Speaker 2 (02:30:04):
At the quick time, quick time, quick time, the quick
time stop quick.

Speaker 1 (02:30:09):
He wants you to drink it.

Speaker 6 (02:30:10):
It means you have to answer everything because if you
do know, answer and I gotta take a shot.

Speaker 1 (02:30:13):
You got slain them rules, Oh shipla, the rules. Explain them.
I'm gonna ask you one one thing or the other.

Speaker 6 (02:30:19):
Some some controversy questions.

Speaker 7 (02:30:21):
That's one thing.

Speaker 1 (02:30:22):
Get it more complicated, bro, It's just it's just we're
gonna give you.

Speaker 3 (02:30:25):
Two two names, two things. You pick one nobody drinks.
If you say both or neither of them, then we
all drinking. You're not drinking.

Speaker 6 (02:30:37):
You'll see. It's so easy. But but just answer everything.

Speaker 3 (02:30:41):
Multiple choice, Get to pick one nobody drinks, you say
both and neither were drinking.

Speaker 1 (02:30:48):
We're drinking with you. We're drinking with you. Ready here, scram, scram,
just one shot glass? Come on, you can just be easy.

Speaker 2 (02:30:57):
I he's gouts right, it's not me. Okay, ready for
you guys, have a sign? Sign Yeah what you drinking?

Speaker 1 (02:31:07):
What's drinking over there? I'm not the drink. Tell you
I want you.

Speaker 2 (02:31:14):
You said you ain't drinking.

Speaker 1 (02:31:14):
I'm gonna say.

Speaker 5 (02:31:19):
No way, all right, Melly Mail or or keep Cowboy.

Speaker 1 (02:31:26):
Oh, this is what I'm saying, load up, scram drink.

Speaker 3 (02:31:32):
And this is is actually a positive thing we trying
to bring. We want to talk about these people in
a positive way. You can pick up. It's not that
you're just say one.

Speaker 1 (02:31:38):
Or the other.

Speaker 2 (02:31:38):
Yeah, we're scram drink.

Speaker 18 (02:31:42):
Melly mill or keep Cowboy? Yeah Mail, Okay, you got it? Yep,
cool Hirk or Bambara?

Speaker 2 (02:32:13):
Oh man, just either or either, but you could say
both are neither both if you say both scrammed drinks.

Speaker 1 (02:32:29):
I'm sorry, man, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Speaker 7 (02:32:34):
Oh I get it now.

Speaker 1 (02:32:35):
Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:32:38):
Look yeah, it's like we ain't we ain't going crazy.
I got one hold hold on, let me, let me
get me get I'm outing.

Speaker 1 (02:32:44):
I'm out. Yeah, the b Boys or the mcs.

Speaker 4 (02:32:55):
Oh man, scram o w you love you man, you
can't leave do it this man, just both goad go
square scare.

Speaker 7 (02:33:06):
I'm sorry, scramm sorry man.

Speaker 1 (02:33:09):
Who Dani or run DMC?

Speaker 7 (02:33:14):
You don't set me up?

Speaker 6 (02:33:16):
Oh my god, man, mascot this ship.

Speaker 2 (02:33:19):
But these guys come up in this. Get these speak English,
Run run DMC, run DMC. That's cool, all right, you
got it. The Beastie boys or fat boys, Oh, the
beef Boys, red Alert or DJ breakout.

Speaker 1 (02:33:36):
Oh ship, I'm sorry man, Both go ahead, square square
at the boil bro.

Speaker 6 (02:33:45):
I don't got no line. I've got no chasing.

Speaker 1 (02:33:48):
Nice champs. Biggie, you want some water to go with?
Biggie or Big Al? What is this water? Yes? Water,
so if you want to chase it?

Speaker 7 (02:34:00):
Both the ones?

Speaker 6 (02:34:03):
Well you said big.

Speaker 5 (02:34:04):
Big yet big gl Big Al, Curtis blow or slick Rick.

Speaker 1 (02:34:11):
Both go ahead, grabbed tiggity you're supposed to be doing.
Let me ask you eventually, I'm drinking alcohol.

Speaker 2 (02:34:18):
You would have guessed. You'd have guessed we got a
kter Go ahead, I guess and.

Speaker 3 (02:34:25):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (02:34:26):
That's right, Come on, get that. That's top alcohol going.

Speaker 1 (02:34:33):
Oh my god, only because this is an honor to
be drinking. Thank you, Thank you. Crush Groove or b
Street crush groove. Damn the next one I know we drinking.
You would have went be Street.

Speaker 2 (02:34:45):
Let's see, let's see Primo or Pete Rock both. I'm
a don't leave the witness things out there. Man, I
knew he was gonna say both. Yeah, both, I'm skipping
in George Clinton or Rick James.

Speaker 5 (02:35:03):
I don't know what you gotta you gotta say.

Speaker 2 (02:35:05):
You gotta say that, I gotta say that.

Speaker 1 (02:35:07):
You gotta say that both both again.

Speaker 7 (02:35:10):
Sorry, I'm sorry, man, I owe you. I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (02:35:15):
Curtis Mayfield kind of with James Brown.

Speaker 1 (02:35:17):
Oh my god, just pick pick a better one, a
better second to breathe. Yeah, you gotta say both.

Speaker 7 (02:35:26):
I have to say both.

Speaker 1 (02:35:28):
You have to say both.

Speaker 2 (02:35:29):
Go ahead, go ahead. Shot, that's okay, it's tiny shot,
and you're spending tonight.

Speaker 1 (02:35:34):
Right Hey, yeah, I tell you man, I'm high and
don't want to we yes, I'm fucked up right now.

Speaker 2 (02:35:44):
This is a chance for we see other shows taking
this question.

Speaker 1 (02:35:50):
We don't show us up. A lot of shows, see
a lot of time.

Speaker 27 (02:35:55):

Speaker 1 (02:35:56):
But it's all love.

Speaker 2 (02:35:57):
It's all just all love of my favorite fan goodies,
d m X or Tupac.

Speaker 6 (02:36:09):
Great questions.

Speaker 1 (02:36:12):
M hm hm.

Speaker 7 (02:36:16):
Both Yeah, hey man, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (02:36:21):
He wants you to have fun. I'm a d J
to tonight, but I don't worry about it. I didn't
learn I'm here with bad luck. It's not with somebody ahead.

Speaker 29 (02:36:34):
I'm drinking with you, Okay, Benz Markey or O D B. Yeah,
if I thought to where you're at, chiz mark.

Speaker 1 (02:36:49):
Next one's good analog or digital?

Speaker 7 (02:36:57):
H I gotta go in my world?

Speaker 1 (02:37:00):
Man, what's the analog? Don't need to witness my bad,
my bad judge. Yeah, bro, no, I did it a
couple of times. Already a man along for sure. Yeah.
So we're taking a shot.

Speaker 2 (02:37:11):
Get Scram Jones or Scram Jones, all three scam drones.

Speaker 1 (02:37:19):
Take a drink. Take a shot for yourself. Oh okay,
look at it. L L cool j or Big Daddy.

Speaker 2 (02:37:33):
K Now, this is offensive because I'm thinking they saying
light skin against brown skin.

Speaker 1 (02:37:37):
I'm thinking this what they're going.

Speaker 5 (02:37:40):
They both they both look their lives a lot.

Speaker 1 (02:37:42):
Hey yeah, both of them, both of them. Let's go.

Speaker 7 (02:37:51):
Ok this is this is lethal. This is lethal.

Speaker 5 (02:37:56):
Grab Master cast or Cool Mode.

Speaker 7 (02:38:00):
Coumo d m hm.

Speaker 5 (02:38:02):
Sounds like you still got a little smoke.

Speaker 7 (02:38:04):
I love him. Okay, you got it.

Speaker 28 (02:38:14):
Molly mak you put your head back with Molly ma
or Diamond d oh ship.

Speaker 7 (02:38:27):
Both sorry, both both put them are incredible.

Speaker 2 (02:38:35):
Walk wol or dr period walk, Wow, DJ Clue or
funk Master flex.

Speaker 6 (02:38:46):
God, you get political, then I can get the car down.

Speaker 7 (02:38:52):
Right, say it again.

Speaker 1 (02:38:58):
You can also say neither.

Speaker 2 (02:38:59):
That's so you can say you can say or both,
or you can say or flex, d J Clue or
Master Flex.

Speaker 5 (02:39:07):
He's like the last of the masters, right, funk Master.

Speaker 1 (02:39:12):
Both both? Okay, Then I got the Then I get
the shot. Hey man, I'm drinking out of my cup.
Now I'm switching in. I'm just look, I'm just that's
a good one.

Speaker 2 (02:39:30):
Crazy rock him okay, verst one, Oh boy, both both, Marvin.

Speaker 1 (02:39:43):
Gay Movie Roberson scream Marvin who I smell it? Wow,
Oh my god. I feel for you, Dog, I feel
for you.

Speaker 5 (02:39:55):
Kanye West or Pharrell Williams both.

Speaker 1 (02:40:03):
I'm gonna hold you up there as soon as you
know supposed to be done.

Speaker 5 (02:40:06):
Here, Goad got yeah, yeah, alright, man, you.

Speaker 1 (02:40:13):
Michael Jackson or Prince both.

Speaker 2 (02:40:17):
Double fisted, bro, No worry, man, I'm respecting from a
flash two sober to to not sober. No, that's not
the way this works. Come, you gotta follow the rules.
He's saying, he's grand Mescenory right now. Your TV raps
or video music box.

Speaker 6 (02:40:38):
Don't bring me no more. I'm getting your music box.

Speaker 2 (02:40:40):
Ralph McDaniel's we let you having you, We need you
all here.

Speaker 1 (02:40:44):
Yeah, it's not it's a good question.

Speaker 2 (02:40:48):
Stevie wonder away, Charles Stream Yes, scramming man both both. Yeah, yeah,
I see that coming.

Speaker 1 (02:41:07):
Oh you see that? He said you you in the
djus killed that? What about you kills that shot with me?
Fand oh god, I can't do that, man, I'll sleep
for a week. Are you ready?

Speaker 6 (02:41:20):
I'm like, I'm.

Speaker 2 (02:41:23):
Ready to take your shot.

Speaker 1 (02:41:24):
Take it.

Speaker 2 (02:41:24):
You've got a lot of shots you ain't taken.

Speaker 6 (02:41:26):
Look at that.

Speaker 1 (02:41:27):
Yeah, but but look at if you're twenty five. Come on, bro,
come on right now.

Speaker 2 (02:41:32):
Come on at least come on, come on, I'm on
to the next one. You got to take at least
two of those. Come on, bro, you're embarrassing us. Jamie
sitting over here, You're not even come on.

Speaker 1 (02:41:41):
Jamie's like He's like, She's like, this is the work shot? Yes, ever,
come on? Come on? Yeh we hard But where's my toast?

Speaker 11 (02:41:52):
You brother?

Speaker 1 (02:41:53):
You the heat man and the DJ yea, what do
you say?

Speaker 11 (02:41:56):
Take the shot?

Speaker 1 (02:41:57):
You want to take the shots? Sheep, don't put me
on the man. You want shot and you want shot.
It's okay, you can't.

Speaker 7 (02:42:09):
Shot from.

Speaker 1 (02:42:15):
You ready about the quiller, he's livery suckers. So we
could be here today, Tequila? What you not me? Bro?

Speaker 2 (02:42:24):
Your dreams Lieu Richie or Teddy puttograph it's horrible ass.

Speaker 7 (02:42:30):
That's a They both was dope right.

Speaker 6 (02:42:36):
Yo, this segment is open.

Speaker 3 (02:42:38):
We were almost over thirty more say Teddy Teddy.

Speaker 5 (02:42:44):
Okay gang star or E P M. D Oh.

Speaker 2 (02:42:49):
Come on, scram ticket.

Speaker 1 (02:42:51):
We're not gonna give you new shots and please take it.

Speaker 2 (02:42:52):
Take you're five older children.

Speaker 6 (02:42:55):
Speeding though you speaking.

Speaker 5 (02:42:57):
Chill out, chill out, You're never gonna be invited back.

Speaker 1 (02:43:04):
I called you personally. Can you come out here I'm
doing I'm not gonna be good, you know, come on,
come on. They're good people. They're good people.

Speaker 2 (02:43:14):
The good people ain't gonna let you shoo off front
of your airline.

Speaker 1 (02:43:17):
They're good people. Taking a goddamn cherry. Come on, just
take a shot. Thank you?

Speaker 2 (02:43:26):
Goes all right?

Speaker 5 (02:43:30):
Oh man trip coll quest or day lot so oh.

Speaker 1 (02:43:34):
Damn man'll slam up man A segments over Bro, No, no,
come on, scrap, we're talking here. Both both yeah, man.

Speaker 2 (02:43:44):
Okay, n w wah wu tang clan, Oh my goodness both.
I was gonna let you do the ice ce No, No,
there's uh they got a square walk the executioners or
the scratch pickles both. That's three you scraam.

Speaker 3 (02:44:05):
Come on ice Cuba, scarface, I need to yeah both,
he's got enough for the for the three year limit.

Speaker 2 (02:44:21):
Three and then you got this litt you're almost you
gotta take those three though, come on, I'm drinking.

Speaker 5 (02:44:32):
Drink Champs Christmas Party.

Speaker 1 (02:44:37):
Want to get back to the interview. Loyalty or respect?
Mhm say both? So he could just spoilt.

Speaker 5 (02:44:44):
Man, you gotta take all all of those shots.

Speaker 1 (02:44:47):
I'm gonna take a shot with you though. Thanks for
taking one one shot I took a couple.

Speaker 2 (02:44:51):
Were talked about flash we access to the heavy guess
and it's almost like a cliche type of question, but
it really isn't.

Speaker 1 (02:44:59):
Not we went accident to you. You want to manage it?

Speaker 5 (02:45:05):
Hey, no, sod conversations.

Speaker 1 (02:45:06):
You heard them.

Speaker 5 (02:45:07):
We're in the resource room staying there.

Speaker 7 (02:45:09):
That's just.

Speaker 5 (02:45:12):
Did you ever think that hip hop would make it
this far.

Speaker 1 (02:45:18):
Back then? Like you got to see it from the.

Speaker 7 (02:45:22):
No, no, I think, especially during that error, this coat
was very neat.

Speaker 5 (02:45:33):
White people always burp it.

Speaker 1 (02:45:35):
This coat was very neat and like they had they
had it together. Yeah, it was pretty neat and hip hop.

Speaker 7 (02:45:42):
Even to this day it's tattered.

Speaker 1 (02:45:44):
Right. You know, we we swag a little different. We
were closed a little different. We we dressed a little different.
We were I this this or like this, like we
do things many flavors of hip hop. Yeah, we we
break the laws too much. I didn't think that a
major corporation, a major situation, would say, how we're gonna

take these guys who were their hats backwards, who don't
dress like the average partygoer, We're gonna invest money in them.
Never my wildest dreams, which you know, someone wherever I am,
whether I'm in Australia or Japan or England or London
or California or right here, I thank god that I

see this, Like this whole shit that I did could
have missed, right. But what happened was people said, what
is that? So just that little bit of daylight of
what is that was just saving grace for me for
hip hop. This is when all the producers were coming
in town, like what is this thing these kids is doing.

Speaker 2 (02:46:51):
What is that?

Speaker 1 (02:46:51):
It could have been ill and ill. I don't think
none of us would be here. We will probably be
doing some other shit. I'll be doing something different. I
would have hated it, but I would have been doing
something different.

Speaker 5 (02:47:03):
You wore a lot of spikes back then.

Speaker 1 (02:47:06):
I didn't, but yeah the crew did. Yeah, No, I
didn't win no spikes. You know, you know we wore
we wore a lot of leather. Lets. We know we've
heard different stories. Why, but what's your take on why?

Speaker 30 (02:47:20):
That was the I think we wanted to be when
we we we we idolized rock and rollers, rock and Rollers,
Parliament and Parliament pumpadelic, Like they dressed one way when
they went in the streets and they dressed that way
when they were on stage.

Speaker 1 (02:47:36):
So we were like, let's let's not go buy leather.
Let's hire somebody and fly him around the country with
us to make our ship.

Speaker 7 (02:47:50):
So we had a letter name was Mickey.

Speaker 1 (02:47:51):
Yeah, I had stylist from back then. Yeah, So we
like if we wanted like turquoise in black, you know,
just way in that way. He would high home and
then a week lady he would come with six suits
boom is he French? Is black?

Speaker 5 (02:48:06):
He's black black French.

Speaker 7 (02:48:10):
You're hele the shop. He's so hard Okay, we told
him close that ship down.

Speaker 1 (02:48:16):
We're gonna pay you.

Speaker 3 (02:48:17):

Speaker 7 (02:48:18):
And he took care of us.

Speaker 1 (02:48:20):
God damn it.

Speaker 2 (02:48:20):
Man got to take a shot for that man. Take
a shot. Take a shot.

Speaker 1 (02:48:28):
This is his boss side. Right.

Speaker 2 (02:48:34):
Do you like going in the studio making records or
do you like performing records?

Speaker 1 (02:48:39):
What is? What is?

Speaker 16 (02:48:40):
What is what?

Speaker 1 (02:48:41):
I like doing both? Okay, I like doing both because
producer records is technical and that's where I come from.
That's a scientist, that mean. But then the performance side
of me is the other side, all right playing, So
I would say both nor here I say both.

Speaker 2 (02:48:56):
Let me ask you because like the way you broke
this down, this was very scientific.

Speaker 5 (02:49:01):
This was very biology.

Speaker 11 (02:49:04):

Speaker 2 (02:49:04):
This was like this was like a science project how
you broke it down. But then I got a lot
of friend DJs that's dumb. How do they get over DJ?
Because they're not smart? He did all the hard work
for it. Oh you literally you know all this shit.

Speaker 1 (02:49:22):
And somehow it transcended to me as a d like
we did all the hard work and it just all
that information came to this is the top tier learn
how to DJ. I don't go this. Yeah, you know
how we all just screwing the ball.

Speaker 3 (02:49:35):
But we didn't fucking do all this ship for the
light to turn on right the DJs afterwards.

Speaker 1 (02:49:41):
Don't get me wrong.

Speaker 3 (02:49:41):
There's DJs that are really technical, really amazing. But for
the most part, he did the hard part. He created
the ball.

Speaker 1 (02:49:47):
We just screwed it in.

Speaker 7 (02:49:48):
That's probably a good way to put it.

Speaker 2 (02:49:50):
Okay, okay, So basically, you ever walked into a party
and the DJ is DJ and off his.

Speaker 1 (02:49:55):
I pard or his I haven't seen that yet, but
I've heard about it.

Speaker 7 (02:49:58):
I haven't seen that yet.

Speaker 1 (02:49:59):
We you do.

Speaker 2 (02:50:03):
If you walked in the party right now, would you say, damn,
it's come a long way? Or would you be like
J mister Lee for the Dominican Republic was back there
damn into his phone.

Speaker 1 (02:50:19):
The Dominican guy. Let me ask the question, would it
be like a party with people dancing? DJ?

Speaker 3 (02:50:27):
But he's looking in the mirror though when he's doing it,
because I can imagine you're doing that.

Speaker 1 (02:50:33):
You know, you know what I say to myself? What
would you? Yeah, I'm a scientist, right and I'm always
wanting this to see people push the envelope, to see
somebody DJ off their iPod.

Speaker 7 (02:50:54):
What is it two iPods that one.

Speaker 1 (02:50:55):
Would be ins iPhone. Now there's no more. It's his phone.
He got, he got his phone, so he's getting so
he's just pretty much just playing. He's playlisting.

Speaker 3 (02:51:05):
Yeah no, they actually have little turntable apps in the
phone and some people are.

Speaker 1 (02:51:09):
Actually I've never seen it, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:51:13):
Yeah, showing this despicable showing I heard about it.

Speaker 6 (02:51:17):
Never seen someone.

Speaker 1 (02:51:18):
Yeah no, I've seen you in your phone from.

Speaker 3 (02:51:23):
Anybody just playing a playlist off their phone saying their DJs.

Speaker 1 (02:51:25):
That's the most disrespectful shit in the world.

Speaker 3 (02:51:27):
You at least have the app that you're doing, like
a ticket ticket and then fucking.

Speaker 5 (02:51:31):
I think I've seen Shot get busy on his phone
one time.

Speaker 3 (02:51:34):
I bet you, I bet you has he's a DJ
bro He's yeah, he has a better Shay app.

Speaker 2 (02:51:38):
Yeah, it was a shock.

Speaker 1 (02:51:40):
Who was that's big in sports? Play for the Lakers.
Point god, you know what I'm talking about. Play for
the Lakers. He's a DJ, early early Lakers, when the
Lakers was killing it. Magic Johnson was a DJ really.

Speaker 7 (02:51:55):
Hell yeah, he played the Pay's.

Speaker 1 (02:51:57):
Been older for twenty five years. Yeah, played for the
like Magic Johnson want to DJ Jesus right now? The
masic was the DJ. I didn't know that. I thought
you was talking my home Russell? What Russell? I want
to show up to.

Speaker 7 (02:52:19):
The breakdances? Who like I see them? I see them?

Speaker 1 (02:52:23):
You never see these motherfuckers do that crazy leg like
crazy legs and and and and in the shott that's
going into the Olympics. Yeah, it's incredible, like the way
they contort their body.

Speaker 7 (02:52:34):
And do that ship they do.

Speaker 9 (02:52:35):
Yeah, absolutely shout out to do on concrete early Breakers,
my early breakers, BAMS early breakers, and then the second
tier that came along the Breakers, you know all.

Speaker 1 (02:52:47):
Absolutely one.

Speaker 3 (02:52:48):
Can we actually go go back to the convo of
that's when you that's the beginning of you wanting.

Speaker 1 (02:52:54):
To continue those breaks was for the breakers, for the breakers,
the breakers where the stars the rappers hadn't arrived yet, right,
they hadn't arrived yet, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:53:04):
And and sorry sout, but the audience came to hear
you and see them right right or you could see
a Breakdan So with the boom box on any corner
the Street corner doing a ship with the cardboard, with
the cardboard exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:53:21):
Come look at the.

Speaker 5 (02:53:21):
Back of your shirt real quick.

Speaker 2 (02:53:23):
Please, I want to say, by the way, we get
disestablished and we laced you with some drink Champs gear
right there.

Speaker 7 (02:53:29):
I got you.

Speaker 1 (02:53:30):
Yes, can you read that for me?

Speaker 31 (02:53:31):
Scram First DJ to make the turntable an instrument, you know,
to have a rapper that's makes no noise for that.

Speaker 32 (02:53:49):
DJ to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Face.
First DJ to be on serious ex DJ to get
a Grammy. It was DDA to get a polar price.

Speaker 1 (02:54:06):
Can't you read the box?

Speaker 7 (02:54:08):
Thank you?

Speaker 6 (02:54:09):
You're good?

Speaker 7 (02:54:09):
Yeah, we got Yeah, you took a lot of them shots. Man,
you're good.

Speaker 1 (02:54:14):
He took it for the culture. What do you do
with your Grammy right now? Like? Do you sip out
of it? Actually? I do a show on Twitch every Tuesday,
New high Noon Experience and then Thursday's eight pm. Uh

my Grammy is in my studio. Okay, well, well I
do my show. Yeah, you know, like one is on
one podium, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame one
is on the left podium, the Grammys on the right,
and then all the other awards are kind of.

Speaker 2 (02:54:52):
You know, uh sped around, you know, so good because
k Rest said that he boycotted, not boycotted, but he
didn't want to participate and the Grammys ceremonied because like
forty years of hip hop. He's like, yo, that could
have started at forty seven and gave us a warning
and you know what I mean, And he's like, you
guys just want to you want to ignore us for
fifty year.

Speaker 3 (02:55:10):
But he said that he didn't feel that hip hop
was fully represented in that.

Speaker 1 (02:55:13):
Yeah, like the B Boys, the Big Girls. Yeah, I
mean I would agree that needs to be seen on
a major network. Four elements. Nobody has done that yet,
So I do respect charts KRS one four four elements
is to break, Yeah, and then the fifty artist abatable

and yeah, four elements and the knowledge yourself and be
boxing are always like be boxing, I don't know what
that is because the B boxes right there, So you
think about being boxing that falls under wrapse speaking, you know, musically.

Speaker 3 (02:55:54):
Do you feel that everything for fifty Yeah, for fifty
years hip hop, whether it was author or not, was
it positive because you know a lot of obviously a
lot of corporate interests show advantage of Oh, okay, it's
hip hop fifty. So we're gonna have we're gonna do
all these things. So your question is what now, Like,
do you feel that it was positive in general for
hip hop?

Speaker 1 (02:56:12):

Speaker 7 (02:56:12):
I do in general.

Speaker 1 (02:56:14):
I just think that, as I said earlier, the detail
of where it came from and what it took to
get here has not been properly represented. And this is
what I say to the PR people and to the
press people, like, if you want to know like at

the beginning, beginning, beginning, you got to ask somebody that's
around sixty. You have to. You can't ask somebody thirty
or twenty five. You just cannot. And this is why
I find it critically important to speak. It's because, like
I said once August twelf gifts here, it's a new trend,
new shit.

Speaker 7 (02:56:55):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:56:56):
No, what is it?

Speaker 2 (02:56:57):

Speaker 30 (02:56:57):
What is it?

Speaker 1 (02:56:58):
Five to twenty?

Speaker 2 (02:56:58):

Speaker 1 (02:56:59):
What is iteen twenty Saturday, fifteen twenty? That's herks Plax?
Mine is is twenty seven thirty two we Avenue. That's
a two part question.

Speaker 2 (02:57:06):
Is that actually the first hip hop party that ever
was there?

Speaker 1 (02:57:09):
I didn't see it, Okay, I never I didn't see it.
I don't know what's here. And I've never talked to
anybody that went to this party. And I'm not saying
that it didn't exist for sure, but I haven't seen
anybody on the internet talk about I was there. I
that's what crazy, legs, that's what crazy.

Speaker 3 (02:57:27):
He said that the discrepancy with that party is one
of the biggest contested things really the history. He feels
that that flyer keeps getting remixed, where people keep adding names,
taking names away.

Speaker 1 (02:57:38):
Yeah, that's he said it on the show.

Speaker 3 (02:57:40):
He said that that's a contested event, like nothing it happened,
but how it happened, or who involved or what.

Speaker 1 (02:57:46):
Yeah, I'd love to know who was there and how
the party turned out, how many chicks were versus guys
when you break it, Like, I want to know that too,
Like I want.

Speaker 7 (02:57:59):
To know the mayor go around.

Speaker 1 (02:58:00):
I want to know what that technique of minds to
the quick mix theories.

Speaker 7 (02:58:03):
I'd love to know, you know, what was that for
us party? And what's the merry go round?

Speaker 1 (02:58:08):
When did you first hear about that party? Like when
was it first?

Speaker 3 (02:58:11):
Like when did people start saying this is the first
party identifying it as the beginning of hip hop, is
that you remember, because that's that's crucial. You would be
the one to tell us because we wouldn't know that's
way before our time, right, you would say, Hey, you
know what, guys, I really didn't remember this being talked
about as much. And that's kind of like what Crazy

Legs was kind of talking about.

Speaker 7 (02:58:33):
I don't want to I don't remember.

Speaker 3 (02:58:34):
I don't remember what he said. I can't remember because
it's all rallying around that point. That's why we're celebrating fifty, right.

Speaker 1 (02:58:42):
But then if we're going to celebrate fifty, then we
got to talk about the party, who was there, right
where it was, what happened, and this is you know,
this is probably probably why he's he's he's saying that,
you know, like I would respectfully love to sit down

with Hurricane, you'll sit down with his crew. That's why
it's crucial that he does what you're doing.

Speaker 7 (02:59:14):
It's it's it's extremely important.

Speaker 1 (02:59:15):
And I can tell you even on my streams, I
have people who were at my parties in the beginning
when I was nothing. Uh, that that will tell you
what my party who's like the They remind me of
ship that I forgot about his Cookie Monroe, Anna Monroe,

Jacqueline Tucker, like these people that are still here, and
one of them actually works works with with me in
my company, that remembers ship that I totally forgot. And
this is was really critically important because that kind of
verifies when you got the layman's and and and the
party goal with saying yep, that ship was true and

it's verified. I'm still yet to hear, and I love
to hear who was at that first party, if it
happened at the center, what happened at that center, what.

Speaker 3 (03:00:08):
Was going on?

Speaker 7 (03:00:10):
Like, what was happening?

Speaker 1 (03:00:13):
We need to know that. It's critically this happens before
August eleventh.

Speaker 7 (03:00:20):
That's just my opinion.

Speaker 2 (03:00:21):
Respect August eleven for making fifty one years.

Speaker 1 (03:00:23):
After that it becomes of fifty one years and then
it's over. You know, next fifty years, I ain't gonna
be here, you know, So do you think I remember? That?

Speaker 2 (03:00:31):
Was another thing that Crazy Legs was playing was that
hip hop is older than fifty.

Speaker 3 (03:00:37):
Yeah, he's saying because and DMC said this, he said
documented hip hop, we can call it fifty. But he
said hip hop was happening before that that's what even
DMC was saying that, Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (03:00:56):
Let's define it. If we define it, guys, it's the
DJ only and playing what we call bastard music. The
C cuts, the D cuts, the F cuts off the album.

That's where hip hop. To me, that's where we had
no title. It wasn't it wasn't named yet.

Speaker 7 (03:01:24):
That's why it.

Speaker 1 (03:01:28):
Could be up for discussion, you know, because there's two
ways to look at it. When it was fully formed
and all four elements came into into play, that would
make it me seventy four because that's when hip that's
when Cowboy joined me. But if we go pre then

it was just the dj M and the breakers and
the graffiti artists. Coclorac says he's a rapper, but he's not.

Speaker 7 (03:02:01):
He was a DJ.

Speaker 1 (03:02:01):
I used to go watch him and if he was
talking on the mic, you know with the echo, Chambers
was just rambling. So there are some things that are
up that a subject. And I want to give Perk
all his flowers. He deserves everything that he's done. But
there are some things that are up for question, and

I think either all of us or one at a time,
like Cochlar Rock, Timmy Tam, I think he's passed away.
Clock can't the original clocks, you know, and the twins,
you know, they gotta start speaking. It would be great if.

Speaker 3 (03:02:42):
It would be a lot of you guys together because
you could cross reference, debate things, and hash it out
of that moment.

Speaker 1 (03:02:49):
Speaking on cross referencing Wikipedia, they have been extremely just
suspectful to me. There's supposed to be the standard for
information for the world to see old and new. Right.

They got my birthday wrong. Fifty eight supposed to be
fifty seven. I was born in the Bronx. They are
you know their process on how they say yes or
no to something. I tried even talking with them. They said,
mister Sadler, I say I did this. They say, missus Sadler,

there's no reference to you doing this. I'm saying this.
They can't be a reference because Wikipedia wasn't born then,
So you mean to tell me all these things? And
I'm telling you that I did. And they kept just
as we was talking with them, they kept not being like, no,
you can't the beatbox, no, the cutting, no to quick

mys theory, no. Wow. So you Wikipedia is saying to me,
you there's no reference to this stuff.

Speaker 7 (03:04:09):
Of course there's no reference because I didn't talk about it.

Speaker 1 (03:04:12):
I just started talking for a long time, and I'm
gonna tell you why, Because talking these things and this
math is geeky, and for a long time, geeks weren't cool, right,
so I shut the fuck up. For a long time.

Speaker 7 (03:04:27):
Now geese ruled the world. I'm talking.

Speaker 1 (03:04:39):
So, yeah, you know, like Wikipedia, once you hiring.

Speaker 3 (03:04:44):
Me, Yeah, Wikipedia, hire motherfucking grandmaster flash, please.

Speaker 1 (03:04:48):
You hire me. I can really help you with, especially
with the historical area and your process on how you
say something is credible versus something that's.

Speaker 3 (03:04:56):
Not, because they allow people to go in there that
are like Wikipedia approved, so they input it. But it's
like like, like how can they You can't for yourself
think right?

Speaker 1 (03:05:05):

Speaker 13 (03:05:06):

Speaker 1 (03:05:07):
They're talking in the horse's mouth like you're talking to
the person. No, we're sorry, Uh, we'll get back to you.
And then when we get back to them, all we
couldn't find no reference. You ain't gonna find no reference.
Put you on the right link when links weren't available
at that time. But you know what, the references the streets, right,
that's a reference.

Speaker 6 (03:05:27):
No one's gonna check you.

Speaker 7 (03:05:28):
Who's gonna say that I didn't do it.

Speaker 1 (03:05:31):
Here's the man in the science, and then I physically
done it. That leads me to a thought.

Speaker 3 (03:05:36):
And I don't know if you guys brought it up
before when I went to the restaurant, but is there
any documentary that you would co sign and say this
is the best documentary right now that tells you the history? Oh?

Speaker 1 (03:05:49):
Man, there's so many I seen ship, so many that
I seen. Oh, I can't answer that question right now.
There was a few that was pretty good. I think
Rebel Kings was really dope. I don't know if you
saw that. No, I didn't see that one.

Speaker 3 (03:06:01):
There was a man fresh dress which felt like a
complimented rubble guy. I don't know everybody saw that saw that.
But I felt like those two documentaries need to look
at I need to look at those. It tells the
Bronx history, like what was happening through the Gang Wars
all hip.

Speaker 1 (03:06:15):
And I think for me, the documentary that I'd love
to see is if someone paints a picture of the
beginning and then slowly take it up.

Speaker 6 (03:06:27):

Speaker 1 (03:06:28):
A few of the of the documentaries I did see,
they're incomplete. They're not wrong, they're just holes in it.
You know you can poke holes in it because you
got to say, wait a minute, if that was that,
then how did that get to that?

Speaker 7 (03:06:42):
And that there? I'd love to see you ever got
to be Biggie?

Speaker 1 (03:06:50):
No? Oh wow?

Speaker 5 (03:06:52):
How about Tupac?

Speaker 1 (03:06:54):
I sat next to Tupac at a gathering and we
talked for a few minutes, but we didn't.

Speaker 7 (03:06:59):
I didn't to talk to these two.

Speaker 1 (03:07:00):
I would have.

Speaker 7 (03:07:03):
I think.

Speaker 1 (03:07:06):
When I heard what happened them too, I cried. I
didn't really know them. I never had coffee and t
with them. I know their parents, I kN know nothing,
but they've done so much for the culture.

Speaker 7 (03:07:18):
I think.

Speaker 1 (03:07:21):
This thing has to stay. If it has to exist,
it's just stay competitive. Nobody should lose their life over this.
That there is insane, like why did they have to die?
And then here is the crazy shit. Please can't find

out who did what what? It's still a question mark, right,
it's a conspiracy. We don't know nothing. What the fuck
is up with that?

Speaker 33 (03:07:50):
Why is this they held in public places where there's witnesses.

Speaker 1 (03:07:56):
That makes me crazy? And them two going at it
east and west? What's healthy to hip Hopa's healthy competition?
But people losing their life come on. I tried like
a baby, and I never met them personally because of
what they meant to the culture. We have a big
fun You ever met Big Pun I met him once

for a brief period of time. I didn't get to
talk to him much either.

Speaker 2 (03:08:22):
Nor if you get asked to do a party right now,
and this party is sixteen to twenty one, they're saying
they want new music.

Speaker 5 (03:08:35):
What is a new artist?

Speaker 2 (03:08:36):
A new artist that grand Master Flash is getting the
party jumping to him.

Speaker 7 (03:08:42):
Can I be totally honest with you, Yes?

Speaker 5 (03:08:44):

Speaker 1 (03:08:46):
I have a lane, and respectfully, if I'm not an
expert in what I do in my lane, I don't
go near it. I don't know enough about the music

that the sixteen to twenty one's love.

Speaker 7 (03:09:12):
I couldn't play a two hour set.

Speaker 1 (03:09:15):
I don't. I don't.

Speaker 7 (03:09:18):
I don't know enough to play to know this.

Speaker 1 (03:09:24):
And scram could definitely identify and you there's that nine
o'clock record, and there's a record to.

Speaker 7 (03:09:29):
Hold to one o'clock.

Speaker 1 (03:09:32):
I'll probably played the one o'clock record at nine, like
I will probably screw the whole fucking shit off.

Speaker 7 (03:09:38):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (03:09:39):
My children they't tell me about records all the time,
you know, and I check it. But I am not
going to try to be something that i'm not and
service because I'm a servant and if I can't serve
you properly, then I will serve you at all respectfully.

Speaker 2 (03:09:58):
It's like one time I was hanging with Bust and
I'm be paraphrasing or thinking this in a different form.
So if I if I if I get it wrong,
then I apologize. But bus one time someone calls him
and they wanted him to perform at an old school event,
and the fact that they called it old school, I
don't think he wanted to participate, you know.

Speaker 1 (03:10:17):
What I mean?

Speaker 2 (03:10:17):
Hmm, because he felt like, yo' I might be old
school to some, but I'm not old school, So he
didn't want to participate in that. Is that something like
if it's like a new school jam, like you don't
want to like indulge in because no.

Speaker 1 (03:10:30):
I'm not saying I don't want to indulge in it.
Don't do him. Yeah, I don't write because I'm gonna
do me right. And they're gonna say, what is he playing? Yeah, yeah,
I'm gonna do what we understand. I'm gonna do with
everybody in this room understand what a sixteen year old
gonna say?

Speaker 6 (03:10:45):
What is that right?

Speaker 1 (03:10:47):
And why are you playing that right? We don't want
to hear that, And I had nothing. He has nothing
to do about whether I love or hate or whatever.
I don't know that music enough anything that I want
to put sick my teeth into. I'm really having to
master it and understand it and know it so that
when I get on them ones, I know where to

take you.

Speaker 5 (03:11:09):
All right, what else you got your notes?

Speaker 1 (03:11:11):
Let's let's listen all let's see. Yeah, I'll make sure
we get every data. Yeah, exactly, exactly exactly.

Speaker 7 (03:11:17):
Oh, let me just.

Speaker 1 (03:11:22):
I want to make this clear. There are so many
DJ techniques that has that has happened, and I want
to make sure people truly understand DJ's played turntable is
the right way. I don't know how to play that way.

I played DJs, I played the wrong way. So there
are some of the DJ techniques that I didn't create.
There's a few that was a great creative by me.
Because everything that's going to last has to be taken
to another level. There's incredible DJs out there. What I'm
trying to say to the world. Is the actual the

mechanics of this putting your fingertips on the vinyl, where
the vinyl has two purposes, the sound source and also
used as a controller, your other hand on the fader,
and the opening and closing the circuits. If you look

at any DJ playing, he is using the mechanics the
how too hands, whether you're going counterclockwise, forward and back,
you're opening and closing the fader. These mechanics all what

I invented. That is the quick mix theory that I
want people to understand, the mechanics, the how to the
fundamentals of what it is. I don't know how to
play where they're putting the needle down. I don't know
how to do. That is why I took three years

of my life to reinvent DJ in the mechanics. And
this led to the rapper, and this led to the producer,
and this led to the big business that we are at.

Speaker 7 (03:13:35):
Right now.

Speaker 2 (03:13:37):
That's crazy, And they fact checked they said that in fact,
Magic Johnson is a DJ.

Speaker 1 (03:13:47):
Oh you the checks, Yes, Google, Can I ask you