October 10, 2023 • 56 mins
Episode 5 of 8
Beth combs through the trial transcripts to understand how Toforest was convicted of Deputy Hardy’s murder with no physical evidence. During the trial, the State introduces a new witness - the earwitness. Violet Ellison claims she overheard Toforest talk about the murder on a jailhouse phone call – a theory the State initially rejected but now throws all its weight behind once Yolanda Chambers’s story falls apart. Beth walks listeners through one of the most shocking aspects of this case: in five different court proceedings, prosecutors presented five different, mutually exclusive theories about how Deputy Hardy was killed. Her investigation then leads her to the prosecutor who asked a jury 25 years ago to sentence Toforest to death.
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http://www.ToforestJohnson.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Last time on ear witness.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
You are in a position now to be one of
two things.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Okay, you can either be a witness or you can
be a defendant. R.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Dregus was in his wheelchair sitting there, and he looked
at me and he said, listen, I'm not gonna lie
for anybody. I would happy to give to Forrest up
in a heartbeat, except it would be a lie, and
I'm not gonna lie. I said, all right, well, they're
going to wheel you to jail and they're gonna charge
you with capital murder, which is definitely offense. And he goes,
(00:48):
I wasn't there, tell him to take me to jail,
and they did.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
Charged with capital murder of a law enforcement officer. Our
twenty two year old toward Forrest Johnson, twenty one year
old Our drag Us Ford, twenty three year old oh
Min Berry, and twenty one year old Quinn tes Wilson.
They are held without bond.
Speaker 6 (01:09):
Evidence wise, well, we had visually no evidence. We had
the word of a fifteen year old who told lies,
a lot of lies.
Speaker 7 (01:22):
Ilie outline a fly.
Speaker 6 (01:25):
We had this table empty, wasn't nothing on it, and
we were still trying to try the case, and we
were like, man, what we gonna do.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I'm gonna win this.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
It's nineteen ninety seven, two years after Deputy Bill Hardy
was killed to Forrest Johnson and Ardregis Ford are headed
to trial for the murder, and so far, the only
evidence the state has presented connecting them to the crime
is the changing story of Yolanda Chambers. But there was
(02:12):
something else, something detectives had known about for two years,
something they kept quiet until now.
Speaker 8 (02:22):
This is sorry to Tom saw for Jeffson County Sheriff's
firmat President of the Room, or sorry to Tony Richson
and missus Violet Ellison and her daughter, Katrina Ellison.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Violet Ellison, a fifty three year old black woman, and
her sixteen year old daughter Katrina, met with detectives Tony
Richardson and Tom Salter at the Sheriff's office. Violet Ellison,
who knew Deputy Hardy, came forward a few weeks after
Hardy's murder. She called investigators seven days after the governor
(02:58):
announced an additional ten t one thousand dollars for information,
bringing the total reward offered in the case to twenty
thousand dollars. Her recorded interview with detectives is less than
seven minutes long.
Speaker 8 (03:14):
Mis Ellison, would you tell us about the information that
you have for us?
Speaker 9 (03:20):
You got a name Fred, I'm not sure of his
last name.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Call my daughter.
Speaker 10 (03:24):
Katrina Ellison home.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Violet Ellison says some guys in the jail were asking
Katrina to make three way calls for them so they'd
only have to pay for the original call to Katrina.
They didn't want to keep feeding quarters into the payphone.
One of those guys was named Fred, and he.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Asked my daughter to use her three way to call for.
Speaker 11 (03:49):
His homeboy, and he named the fellow's name is Tamars Johnson.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Violet Ellison says her daughter dialed the number of a
girl named Daisy to create a three way call. In
the jail, Fred handed the phone to Forest so that
he could talk to Daisy back in the Ellison house.
Once Katrina heard the three way call go through, she
put the phone down and walked away, but her mom,
(04:17):
Violet Ellison, picked it up and listened in.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
He said that on the night of the.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Ancident.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Violet Ellison tells detectives that she heard to Forest Johnson
telling Daisy what happened the night of Deputy Bill Hardy's murder.
I've listened to this recording over a dozen times and
it's not easy to follow, but in summary, Violet says
that to Forest described following a man. They planned to
(04:50):
rob a man.
Speaker 12 (04:53):
And they had been following this man.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
This man had a girl with him, and the girl
had a gun gone a shot was fired.
Speaker 10 (05:02):
It was one shot that was fired.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
And Deputy Hardy heard the commotion and came out to investigate.
Speaker 8 (05:09):
Investigate, and that's when.
Speaker 11 (05:14):
Tavars Johnson shot one time and he named another guy,
which was.
Speaker 10 (05:25):
Quin to your tas both.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Of them shot, She says she overheard to Forrest Johnson
say that he and quint Has Wilson each fired one
shot at Deputy Hardy. At this point, quint Has Wilson
was also in jail charged with Hardy's murder. The story
Violet Ellison tells police is disjointed. There are a lot
(05:51):
of details that are similar to the facts about the
case that were reported in the news, but others that
don't fit the evidence at the crime scene, and after
less than seven minutes, detectives say they have no further
questions for Violet Ellison and her daughter.
Speaker 8 (06:09):
That makes a lot of sense. Do you think they
are okay?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Two years after Violet Ellison first comes to police, the
state is preparing to put Ardregis Ford and to Forrest
Johnson on trial, but Yolanda Chambers is falling apart. She's
recanted her testimony under oath, and she doesn't always show
up to court when she's supposed to be there. It's then,
(06:46):
in their time of need two years later, that detectives
suddenly remember Violet Ellison's statements.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
BALI, that was k marking that door. You stand up
on this dayling and say what she said. We got
a full table. Now we got all the evidence we need. Well,
not that we need, we'd like to have a lot more,
but we got evidence.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Violet Ellison would become the states star witness and the
trial against Forrest Johnson and her ear witness testimony would
be the key evidence linking him to Deputy Hardy's murder.
But there wouldn't be just one trial for the murder
of Deputy Hardy, or two or even three. The state
(07:34):
will pursue four capital murder trials, and at each of
these four trials, the state will present separate, mutually exclusive
theories about who pulled the trigger and fired the fatal shots.
I'm Beth Shelburne. This is ear witness, Chapter five. Anybody
(08:00):
will do if Tony Richardson was initially enthusiastic about Violet
(08:32):
Ellison's revelations. I can't tell by the investigative file. He
wrote a report about the meeting he had with her.
It's just seven sentences long, concluding the conversation concerned the crime.
That's it. Detectives and prosecutors do not publicly mention Violet
(08:54):
Ellison or her claims for the next two years. It's
like they just forgot about her. The most glaring example
of this, Detective Richardson testifies at a grand jury hearing
five months after his conversation with Violet Ellison. He says
(09:14):
under oath that all four men charged with capital murder
were in the back parking lot of the Crown Sterling
Suites when Hardy was killed, but he says Omar Berry
and Ardregis Ford were the shooters. This story is based
(09:34):
on one of his conversations with Yolanda Chambers, and Detective
Richardson tells the grand jury there is no doubt that
Yolanda Chambers is telling us the truth. There is no
mention of Violet Ellison and tel To Forest is on trial,
(10:05):
but the state puts ardregas Ford on trial.
Speaker 12 (10:08):
First, my grandmother spent everything she had, everything that a
poor woman had. She spent our money to defend him,
you know, to get him the best.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Representation she could.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Ardregas's cousin, Nicole Blunt Kerksey, comes to my house to
talk to me about the case. She's wearing a patterned
dress and cowboy boots. Her hair is pulled back into
a high bun. For many years, she grew up in
the same house as ar Dregas. Their mothers are sisters.
Speaker 9 (10:43):
It was a lot of money for a poor family.
It really was a lot of My grandmother had a
lot of money saved back then. Even poor people like
she didn't spend everything she had. She always put money back.
She worked for a Union Envelope, which was like a
factory over in Press City for years, and then she
used to wash clothes and clean houses for people, and
(11:07):
so she just tucked a lot of that money, she
just tucked it away, and she exhausted just about everything
to try to get him the representation that he needed
for that trial. Other than my grandmother's money. I mean
we had barbecues and just you know, things to raise
money so that we could pay the attorney.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Ardregas's mom, Joyce, tells me the same thing. So you
had to raise.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Some of the money, some of it.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, do you remember how much you ended up paying?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Looked like, I don't know, might have been over for
the thousand or something. Mother.
Speaker 11 (11:50):
It's a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
It was.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Ar Dregas's family hires Richard Jaffe, a renowned defense attorney
who would represent it dozens of people facing the death
penalty to Forrest. Johnson's cousin, Antonio Green remembers trying to
figure out what his family could do to get to
Forrest the best legal defense available.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
One of the prominent attorneys during that time.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Me and my uncle went and talked to him about
taking this case for the forest during that time, and
he told us it's right, that's in his office. He said,
bring him a ten thousand dollars retainer and he'll bring
our love one home. Of course, ten thousand dollars, he
might well say ten million at that time to me,
(12:38):
you know, and you know, we just we just didn't
have it, couldn't do it.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Everybody scratching to make it and feed the family.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And we all understood that because I'm thinking, okay, I
got to get a loan, I got to do you
know something. But that was what was amazing too. Bell
to fires he understood that. He was like, because don't
worry about that. I'm gonna be all right. I didn't
do this. That this old thing. They're not gonna lock
me up because I didn't do this.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Judge Alfred Bayhackle appoints two attorneys to represent to forrest,
a sharply dressed thirty two year old black man named
Darryl Bender and Erskine mathis a white, middle aged former
police officer with a thick mustache. In nineteen ninety seven,
Alabama paid appointed defense attorneys just twenty dollars an hour
(13:34):
for work outside the courtroom, with a cap of one
thousand dollars. Most appointed lawyers can't afford to work for free,
so this very low cap limited how well they could
prepare for trial. Ardregis Ford is first to go to
(13:58):
trial in November of no nineteen ninety seven. There's a
photo of him in the newspaper. He's sitting in his
wheelchair in court wearing a starched collared shirt and dark blazer.
The junior prosecutor on the case is a thirty four
year old black man named THEO Lawson. Jeff Wallace is
(14:19):
the lead prosecutor. He's tall, white, a commanding figure in
the courtroom, forty three years old, twelve years into his career.
Speaker 7 (14:30):
I think my reputation was of being a tough prosecutor,
meaning if I had the case, I pushed it toose limits.
And I think my reputation might be that I was
maybe a little too tough. Sometimes I hope that's not true,
but I'm afraid it might be true.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Jeff Wallace was assigned to major cases and aggressively sought
to please his boss, DA David Barber, who was a
tough on crime leader focused on getting convictions, and this
the case was personal for Jeff Wallace. He knew the victim.
Speaker 7 (15:05):
Every prosecutor who is diligent works closely with the police,
and when something happens to one of them, you're not
one of the boys in blue, as they say, but
they're your friends. So when this happened at Deputy Hardy,
he got my attention.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
The trial against ar dregas Ford starts at one fifty
pm on November fifth. In a short opening statement, the
prosecution summarizes the crime for the jury, arguing that ar
dregas Ford is guilty of capital murder. They don't mention
a motive. Afterwards, Jeff Wallace calls the county's chief medical
(15:46):
examiner to the stand. He explains that Hardy's wounds were
at an upward angle through his head. Jeff Wallace argues
this would be consistent with Ardregis firing the show shots
from his wheelchair. Prosecutors also call Yolanda Chambers as a witness,
(16:06):
even though she recanted her story in court a year ago.
Since then, she's gone back to saying that she was
there when Hardy was killed. She now says she saw
ardregas Ford fire at least one shot Richard Jeffy. Ardregas's
lawyer argues that if the hotel witnesses had seen ardregas
(16:30):
Ford commit the crime, they would have seen this.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Ur dregas Ford wheeling up about thirty feet of an
incline in his wheelchair, somehow finding an ability to shoot
two shots into Deputy Hardy, then be wheeled down by
someone all the way back to their car. The wheelchair
(16:58):
would have had to been put in Thereregas. That's what
I had to have been physically put into the driver's seat.
DeForrest would have had to have gotten back into the
passenger seat, and then they would have driven off, and
that would have taken at least a minute or two minimum.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Of course, no one at the hotel saw anything like that.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
The only thing they had on our Dregas forward was
Yolanda Chambers.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Jaffe calls witnesses to the stand who saw Ardregas at
Tea's place at the same time that Deputy Hardy was shot.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
We didn't call any witnesses other than alibi witnesses.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
The key decision the jury has to make. Do they
believe Yolanda chambers testimony that Ardregas killed Deputy Hardy behind
the Crown Sterling suites, or do they believe the three
alibi witnesses who say he was at Tea's place at
the same time that Deputy Hardy was murdered. The jury
(18:07):
votes ten to two to acquit Ardragas Ford, but that's
not enough. Murder trials require a unanimous verdict. Since this
decision was split, Judge bay Hackle declares a mistrial, but
ardregas Ford is not set free. The state plans to
try him a second time. Two weeks later, the first
(18:53):
trial against to Forest Johnson begins. Here's to Forrest's cousin,
Antonio Green.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I remember me personally myself. I was very optimistic. I
was very optimistic simply because I knew what they had,
which was nothing as far as evidence goes. I'm like, Okay, well,
it's just a part of the process. They'll hear the
evidence or like thereof and we'll be going home, you know,
and this is all over. But as the days went on,
(19:23):
from the first couple of days of the trial, you
could see a really different environment in the courtroom.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
The only video from the trial I've seen is a
short TV news clip. It's filmed through a window on
the courtroom door, and to Forrest looks so young, much
younger than twenty four. He's clean shaven, baby faced, dressed
for court in a striped button down shirt and tie
with a gray blazer. He looks around the courtroom, maybe
(19:56):
he's nervous, but then he lights up with the huge
smile when he sees a family member who comes over
to speak with him. The state's lead prosecutor Jeff Wallace
gets up in front of the jury. Just two weeks earlier,
he argued that our Dregis Ford shot Deputy Hardy, but
now he tells a completely different story. He says that
(20:20):
to Forrest Johnson shot Hardy. The theory that the shooter
was seated in a wheelchair is never mentioned, and Yolanda
Chambers never sets foot in the courtroom. Instead, the prosecution
tells the jury in opening statements that they will hear
evidence that will convince them beyond a reasonable doubt that
(20:40):
to Forrest shot and killed Deputy Hardy. Then Jeff Wallace
introduces the state's new star witness, Violet Ellison. She tells
the jury she evesdropped on several three way calls because
she was concerned about her daughter talking to people at
the jail, and because she's naturally nosy. She says she
(21:04):
contacted detectives six days after she listened in on the
first call because she couldn't sleep after hearing information about
the murder of Deputy Bill Hardy. On the stand, Violet
Ellison tells the jury that she overheard to Forrest say
these words, I shot the fucker in the head, and
(21:26):
I saw his head go back and he fell, and
he shouldn't have got in my business messing up my shit.
There was no mention of I shot the fucker in
(21:46):
the head or anything like that. And Violet Ellison's original
recorded statement to police, she did write the statement down
in notes on the back of an envelope that she
submitted to police, but she gave them these notes six
weeks after her first recorded statement on the stand. She
(22:10):
says she jotted down the notes while she listened in
on the call between to Forest and Daisy, and then
copied the notes onto a sheet of paper. But it's
hard for me to believe that these notes were written
during the phone call she claims she overheard. For example,
Violet Ellison is adamant in her testimony that she heard
(22:33):
to Forest only use his first name, but her notes
refer to him as Johnson. If she was just writing
down what she heard while she heard it, why wouldn't
she have written to Forest? How would she have known
his last name to Forrest's attorneys also say that what
(22:57):
Violet Ellison heard was just one side of a conversation.
They say to Forest was telling Daisy what he was
accused of doing, not what he did. He was responding
to her question, why are you in jail? But when
Darryl Bender questions Violet Ellison, she tells him she's positive
(23:18):
that Daisy never asked to Forest why he was in jail.
But then she also says that she didn't pay any
attention to Daisy's side of the conversation because she was
only interested in what to Forest had to say. If
this feels confusing to you, welcome, I've been trying to
(23:39):
make this make sense for two years. How can Violet
Ellison insist that she knows what Daisy did or did
not say, while also admitting that she only listened to
one side of the conversation. Antonio Green, to Forest's cousin,
remembers watching Violet Ellison on this stand.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
The only evidence supposedly they had against was this ear
witness who had never heard him speak before, who had
no idea who he was. But to sit in there
and see how the system from you know, the judge,
the prosecutors and all that pushed that case towards him.
(24:22):
I mean constantly it was he did it. We got
the right one. He did it, and forget the evidence.
Don't worry about that we're just telling you he did it.
It's pretty much it's all they had.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
When Violet Ellison finishes testifying, Daisy Williams takes the stand,
she says to Forrest did not admit to the murder
on that phone call, and she never heard him say
the things Violet Ellison claimed to overhear. So Violet Ellison,
(24:55):
a friend of the victim, says she heard one thing.
Daisy Williams, friend of the accused, says she heard another.
The case comes down to who the jury will believe.
(25:18):
After five days of testimony to Forrest's supporters nervously wait
as the jury begins to deliberate, and once again, the
jury cannot reach a unanimous decision. Nine jurors vote to convict,
but three others are not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.
(25:39):
The judge declares a mistrial.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
They deliberated and they couldn't come to a verdict, so
they took him back to kept him locked up, and
immediately pretty much scheduled another date for a second trial.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
So there wasn't really any time to celebrate.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
No, no, oh no, no, it wasn't any of that.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
And then even then I didn't think I didn't look
at it as any type of victory, because an innocent
man should be found innocent.
Speaker 13 (26:34):
Later on, Yeah, I'm nice to see you, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I'm at Shelburn. You can call me back.
Speaker 11 (26:41):
Can I call you?
Speaker 13 (26:42):
Jeff?
Speaker 11 (26:43):
Okay? Great.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Jeff Wallace prosecuted both to Forrest and Ardregis. When I
emailed him to set up an interview, he asked me
to meet him at the large Methodist church he attends
in a Birmingham suburb. He's now retired, but spent twenty
five years as a pro in Jefferson County.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Sure, we record the interview in the church's empty sanctuary.
He tells me he prefers to do interviews standing up
because of all of his courtroom experience. So we're standing
in this sanctuary at the altar, facing each other, having
this conversation in front of a giant pipe organ. The
(27:23):
way we're set up, it feels like we're either here
to debate or get married. Anyway. This is why the
recording sounds a little echoey.
Speaker 7 (27:34):
We had a weak case. It's placed on testimony of
one witness.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Jeff Wallace remembers that the case against to Forrest Johnson
hinged on the testimony of Violet Ellison.
Speaker 7 (27:45):
That is extremely strong evidence if it's believed. Of course,
the question becomes, so you believe that evidence? Well? To
believe that evidence, you have to believe mis Ellison. To
believe mis Ellison, you have to look at the facts
how she said it happened.
Speaker 11 (28:00):
To.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Forrest's second trial begins eight months after the first one
ends in a mistrial. Jeff Wallace is the lead prosecutor. Again.
He calls Violet Ellison to the stand, where she testifies
that she overheard to Forrest admit to Hardy's murder on
a three way phone call. Jeff Wallace says Violet Ellison
(28:22):
listened in on the calls because she was concerned about
her daughter, and once again to Forrest's attorneys call Daisy Williams,
who maintains that to Forest never confessed to the murder.
To Forest's lawyer, Darryl Bender asks Daisy, did he describe
to you the series of events that he said had occurred?
(28:45):
Daisy no? Bender? Did he tell you where this happened again,
Daisy no Bender? Did he tell you that he had
killed somebody? Daisy no, Sir. Jeff Wallace tries to cast
doubt on Daisy's testimony. He says, maybe Daisy is testifying
(29:07):
about a different call, or maybe she's just the wrong Daisy.
Yet again, it's one witnesses word against another. Right before
Jeff Wallace addresses the jury for closing statements, he picks
up a piece of evidence, Deputy Hardy's hat, the one
(29:27):
that he would always wear on duty, the one he
was wearing when he was shot. It has a bullet
hole through the brim. Jeff Wallace argues that Violet Ellison
heard to Forrest Johnson bragging about what he did. Wallace
(29:48):
turns to the jury and says, let me read you
the words, his words, not mine. I shot the fucker
in the head. I saw his head go back and
he fell. He should never have gotten my business messing
up my shit. He says these words to the jury
(30:12):
like this is an on the record statement directly from
to Forrest Johnson, when it's really Violet Ellison's testimony of
what she says she overheard, however it occurred. Wallace continues,
he's proud of his role in it, and don't forget that,
(30:34):
no matter how many shots were fired, he's proud of
the one he put into Deputy Hardy's head. Here's his
respect for Bill Hardy. Wallace throws Hardy's hat onto the
courtroom floor. He's as guilty as they come. Judge bay
(30:59):
Hackle gives the jury instructions to carefully consider all of
the evidence. They begin deliberations at four twenty five pm
on a Friday afternoon to Forest's family waits for the verdict.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
He's a defendant, but he's innocent until proven guilty.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
That didn't seem to be the case in the courtroom
during that time.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
It was like, you have to go above and beyond
to prove you're innocent because as a right now you're guilty.
And that was that there was a dark feeling in there.
You couldn't you couldn't get around it.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Two and a half hours later, at seven to ten pm,
the jurors file back into the courtroom with their decision
to Forrest Johnson is found guilty of capital murder. Judge
bay Hackle schedules the penalty phase for the following Monday.
(32:00):
This is when the jury will decide to Forrest's fate,
should he be sent to prison for life without parole
or put to death. For Hardy's murder. The penalty phase
of a capital murder case represents the highest stakes in
our criminal justice system. Defense attorneys often call lots of
(32:20):
witnesses and sometimes spend weeks presenting evidence to try to
convince the jury to spare their client's life. The penalty
phase hearing for to Forest Johnson lasts only eighty minutes.
To Forrest's attorneys call three members of his family to testify.
(32:41):
When Erskine Mathis asks to Forre's grandmother, you know what
we're here for today, she answers, well, yeah, I guess
not really, though it's clear Mathis and Bender didn't adequately
prepare her for the hearing. On the stand, to Forrest's mother,
Donna cries so hard she can barely hold her head up.
(33:04):
At one point, Mattha says to her, listen to me.
Can you raise your head up and look at me?
Donna Johnson tells the jury through her tears, just don't
give my baby no electric chair. The final witness is
to Forrest's cousin, Antonio Green.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I'm fifty two years old and until the day, that's
probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do,
was get on that stand and beg for his life.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
The jury deliberates to Forrest's fate for over five hours.
In the decision about whether or not to Forest should
live or die, all of the jurors don't have to agree.
A unanimous vote is needed for guilt or innocence, but
a jury in Alabama can sentence a person to death
(33:57):
with a majority vote of ten to two, and just
after five pm they reach a decision with the minimum
number of votes needed ten to two. The jury recommends
the death penalty. Judge Alfred Baackle affirms the recommendation that
(34:26):
to Forrest Johnson be executed for the murder of Deputy
Bill Hardy. One newspaper reports that to Forest sat motionless
as the jury's recommendation was read, appearing to be stunned.
To Forrest's mother, Donna, screamed no, no, no. To Forrest's
(34:51):
oldest daughter, Shane, was in the courtroom that day. She
was six years old at the time, and I.
Speaker 13 (34:58):
Just kept kind of trying to get his attention and
blurting out how nice he loved in his suit, And
so finally the judge kind of had me escorted out.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Of the courtroom.
Speaker 13 (35:10):
But there's a little small window and my cousin had
me on his shoulders. He escorted me out. He had
me on his shoulders so I could just peek through
and see my dad through that little small courtroom window,
and ironically stole that was my last memory of him in.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
The free world.
Speaker 14 (36:12):
So my thing is this, why didn't they abandon reach
out to me?
Speaker 1 (36:19):
To Flores Felanick Sanders aka Quisy, still wonders why to
Forrest's attorneys didn't call her or Mama Cat to testify
at his second trial like they did in the first one.
Speaker 14 (36:33):
That makes me feel like we failed them because we
saw them and we wasn't the only ones, so it's
like what we said didn't even matter, like they didn't
take it into consideration.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Mama Cat and Quisi were important alibi witnesses at his
first trial who saw him at Tea's place the night
party was murdered, and their testimony may have created enough
reasonable doubt to prevent a guilty verse. Instead, to Forrest's
attorneys called two other witnesses from Teas, but these witnesses
(37:08):
didn't seem well prepared and were flustered on the stand.
I wondered the same about Marshall Kelly Cummings, the Keebler
cookie guy. Why didn't they call him as a witness
in the second trial? What he saw out the window
one person slowly driving away in a copper colored car
(37:31):
that contradicted the state's story, But the jury that sentenced
to Forrest to death never heard from him. The third
difference between to Forest's first and second trials involves Latania Henderson,
the friend of Yolanda Chambers who was in the car
with to Forest and Ardregis after they left Tea's place. Remember,
(37:55):
Latania was facing a charge of hindering prosecution. She went
to jail for five months because she refused to go
along with Yolanda chambers story. At the time of Taforest's
second trial, Latania was still facing this charge when prosecutor
Jeff Wallace called her as a witness right before the
(38:17):
jurors were brought into the courtroom. Jeff Wallace told the judge,
the state wants to secure her testimony, and in that regard,
we are dismissing her hindering prosecution case. For years, Latania
said that she didn't know anything about Deputy Hardy's murder
and it was only just before she took the stand
(38:40):
for the prosecution that the state dropped the felony charge
against her poof like magic. When she took the stand,
Latania stuck to her story that she wasn't there when
Hardy was murdered, that no one in Rodregis's car talked
about killing anyone. But she did say that she had
(39:02):
a gun that night, and so did to Forrest. On
the stand, she said she hid her gun on the
tire of another car, and that Ardregis Yolanda and to
Forrest hid the other gun under the dashboard. Police searched
Ardregas's car after they impounded it. They never found a gun,
(39:24):
but Latanya's testimony put a gun into Forrest's hand on
the night of the murder, and this likely stuck with
the jury and finally to Forest's lawyers called an unexpected witness.
Speaker 10 (39:40):
The thing that happened to me that is the most
just stunning is putting Elanda Chambers on the stand in
the defense case.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Derek Drennan was a young lawyer working with Jaffey on
Ardregas's case at the time. Both attorneys were paying close
attention to to Forrest's truckles. When I first read the
trial transcript, I wondered why would the defense call Yolanda
Chambers to the stand, And Derek had the same question
(40:12):
as he watched it unfold.
Speaker 10 (40:15):
Why would you call the only person on the planet
who will testify on her oath that your client was there?
You know, and lia I mean knowing they're lying about it.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yolanda testified that she was at the scene of the
crime with to Forest, Latanya and Ardregis. She said it
was Ardregas, not to Forrest who killed Deputy Hardy, but
still her testimony directly contradicted to Forrest's alibi that he
was at Teas place.
Speaker 10 (40:50):
They're asking a Drew to believe her when she says,
you know, Johnson didn't shoot him forward it. I don't
know how that could that could be justified. There's nobody
on the planet that's going to put your client on
that parking lot that night except for Yolanda Chambers. Nobody
(41:13):
will and to put her up there to say that
their client was innocent because Ford did. It just beyond me.
You know, that to me is just it's just really inexplicable.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Prosecutor Jeff Wallace seized on this at trial. In his
closing statement, he told the jury. If you go back
in the jury room and decide that Yolanda Chambers ought
not to have been allowed to testify because she's a
liar or whatever you might decide about her, that's okay.
State didn't call her the defense. Did I want you
(41:59):
to rem that. I called both of to Forrest's original
trial lawyers to ask about the decisions they made in
defending to Forest, but neither would sit down with me
for an interview.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
We forget sometime that there was a third person on
that phone who told him to discredits what this lady says.
She heard you know what I mean? And now, how
much closer can you get than that you're the third
party in that three way conversation and you say, no,
that's not what it was.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
I needed to find the person on the other end
of the phone call that Violet Ellison overheard. The person
who actually talked to to Forest, Daisy Williams. Daisy was
nineteen when she testified it to Forest's second trial. She's
now in her mid forties and has never spoken publicly
(43:02):
about the case, but she agrees to come to my
house to talk.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I'm a mechanic.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
How did you get into being a mechanic into working.
Speaker 11 (43:11):
On Camba growing up.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
I love cars.
Speaker 11 (43:15):
I have a seventy one four at home now that
I'm trying to restore. I love working all them. I love,
you know, going to like the car races and everything.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
We settle in on the couch and talk for over
an hour.
Speaker 11 (43:27):
So Fars is a real good person.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
He got a real good.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Heart, Daisy tells me to Forrest was friends with her
two brothers, Charles and Eugene. They used to hang out
and play basketball when they were growing up in Pratt City,
and her story about what happened on that phone call
is consistent. What she tells me more than twenty five
years later doesn't vary from what she said on the stand.
Speaker 11 (43:54):
My cousin actually called me because he was in the
county jail at the time.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
And who was that?
Speaker 13 (44:00):
Was that?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Fre Fred Carter?
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Okay, Yeah, So when that initial call came to you,
I guess Fred had called Katrina Violet Ellison's daughter, and
then she made the three way call to connect him
to you. Yes, and then he put to Forrest On
is that how it went?
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yes?
Speaker 11 (44:19):
He actually, like I said, he told me, he was like, yes,
who up here with me? And he knew, you know,
we all grew up in Press City together. And he
was like, to far, it's not like for real, and
he was. He gave Forrest phone, let me talk to him.
So I'm talking to him, like, man, what's going on?
And he told me I've been accused of, you know,
killing somebody. And I was like, man, you got a
lawyer and he was like yeah. And we left it
at dick. We didn't go no further with that conversation
(44:41):
about the depth they that share. He said he was
accused and that's all he said to me.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Why did the jury believe this woman who eavesdrop on
the call over you who actually.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Had on the call.
Speaker 11 (44:55):
I don't understand. I never understood it. You know, they
went on hearsay, They went on which she says she overheard.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
They didn't actually.
Speaker 11 (45:03):
Listen to me. I was young, so I feel like
by me being young, they didn't actually listen to me. Oh, well,
she's just you know, somebody you know knows she probably
just saying something.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
And that's how I felt.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
There are two recurring questions that come up when to
Forest's family and friends talk with me about the case.
The first, why isn't Violet Ellison's testimony hearsay. Usually something
that someone overheard is considered hearsay and not admissible as
(45:42):
evidence in court. To Forest's lawyers tried to argue that
Violet Ellison's testimony was hearsay to get it thrown out,
but the judge overruled them. It turns out there is
an exception to the hearsay rule when someone claims to
overhear the fen admitting to the crime. The second isn't
(46:05):
the jail supposed to record phone calls. According to testimony
from a jail supervisor, the phones in the Jefferson County
jail weren't equipped with the ability to record in nineteen
ninety five. One of the hardest things to comprehend about
(46:29):
this case is what happens ten months after to Forrest
Johnson was convicted and sentenced to death. In June of
nineteen ninety nine, the state once again tries to convict
Ardregis Ford. Jeff Wallace prosecutes the Hardy case for the
fourth time. In the state's star witness, Yolanda Chambers, Violet
(46:55):
Ellison is never even mentioned, and Wallace presents yet another
theory of the crime. A fifth theory at the grand
jury hearing, the state argued that Ardregas and Omar Berry
killed Deputy Hardy. Then, at Ardregas's first trial, Jeff Wallace
(47:15):
said Ardregas was the only person who killed Deputy Hardy.
Then at to Forrest's first trial a month later, he
argued that to Forrest was the only shooter. A year later,
when to Forest was tried a second time, the state
said to Forrest fired a shot, and so did Quintez Wilson,
(47:36):
but they said Wilson was not being tried because of
a lack of evidence. And finally, after to Forrest, Johnson
was sentenced to death. And after Jeff Wallace characterized Yolanda
Chambers as a liar, he turns around and uses Yolanda
as his own star witness against Ardregis Ford. The jury
(48:01):
in Ardregas's second trial deliberates for less than an hour
and declares him not guilty. Ardregas is acquitted. I talked
to his cousin Nicole about that moment. I wonder how
that made you feel. I mean, did it make you
feel like the system worked? That ar Dregas was acquitted.
Speaker 11 (48:23):
It didn't make me feel like the system work.
Speaker 9 (48:25):
It showed me that Richard Jaffi did a wonderful job
defending him.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Ardregus and to Forrest had the same alibi. Nobody denies
that they were together the knight Hardy was killed, but
there was a major difference between their cases. Ardregas's family
was able to pay for a renowned attorney and to
Forrest's family wasn't. Meanwhile, prosecutors had a powerful tool at
(48:56):
their disposal, the ability to use multiple theories to get
the outcome. They were seeking someone to go down for
Hardy's murder.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
No prosecutors should be allowed to, in any case, much
less a death penalty case, to try two different defendants
for the same crime using a different theory and different
sets of witnesses, as if they're staging two Broadway plays
(49:29):
of the same scenario.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
Richard jeffy Ardregus's lawyer, this.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
Case is all about alternative worlds that are in conflict
with each other and in conflict with truth, and in
conflict with what our justice system stands for.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Arguing inconsistent theories isn't technically illegal, but I mean, come on,
five different theories. There is no way all five of
these theories can be true. These theories are mutually exclusive
in conflict with each other. I ask Jeff Wallace to
(50:11):
explain how could he argue these mutually exclusive theories against
two different people for the same crime.
Speaker 7 (50:21):
It's a valid question, but it's not the right question.
The right question is whether or not we argued something
that was supported by the evidence in that trial.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
But help me understand how as a prosecutor you can
argue that one person is the gunman in the killing
of a deputy, he's convicted and sentenced to death, and
then at a subsequent trial argue that another person was
the shooter.
Speaker 7 (50:48):
Well, it would not be, if I can be hyper technical,
it would not be the shooter of the same bullet.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Jeff Wallace gives me a long winded ex explanation about
how two people could be guilty of the same crime if,
for example, one person shoots a victim and another fires
a shot but the bullet flies off into space. But
that's not what Jeff Wallace argued at trial the victim.
Speaker 7 (51:20):
You don't have to decide which one fired the shot
or both guilty.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
But the evidence showed that there was only one gun
and one gunman.
Speaker 4 (51:26):
Right.
Speaker 7 (51:27):
Oh, I don't know if you say that.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
I think that's what the firearms expert testified to he did.
A firearms examiner looked at the two shell casings found
at the murder scene and determined they had been fired
from the same nine milimeter pistol, indicating there was only
one shooter. I keep pressing him. I want Jeff Wallace
(51:53):
to tell me how he squared in his own mind
these contradictory theories about who fired the fatal shots. Jeff
and I go round and round. In theory. Prosecutors are
employed to seek the truth. They don't have a mandate
to obtain convictions. But the law allowed him to do
(52:15):
what he did. And Jeff Wallace told me himself he
was known to push a case to its limits.
Speaker 7 (52:22):
I'm afraid that my reputation was that I was fairly
pan Oh. I tried to follow all the roads, tried
to do exactly what the boss wanted done, and so
I tried to follow all orders. And now wish I'd
been a little more yielding. Sometimes I wish I'd seen
(52:44):
a little more gray. But I was fairly black and white.
Speaker 5 (52:46):
And.
Speaker 7 (52:48):
I'm afraid I was fairly mean. And I'm not necessarily
proud of that.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
As to Forrest's family watched their worst nightmare unfold. It
was clear that he wasn't the only one failed by
these trials. They also thought about Deputy Bill Hardy and
his family.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
You know, the victim's family deserved to know what happened
to their loved one, but they get no justice, no
peace out of a wrongful conviction, you know. And this
is simply a case of just anybody all do and
looking at it from the inside, it seems like the
whole thing was just put together like a puzzle. All
(53:36):
this is going on in a court of law that's
supposed to be the most honest place in our country.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
After he sentenced to death, correctional officers put to Forest
in a van and drive him two hundred miles south
of Birmingham. He arrives at Holman Prison and is assigned
a five y eight cell on death row, where he'll
spend twenty three hours a day. Roaches crawl everywhere, and
(54:12):
there's no air conditioning in the sweltering Alabama heat. As
months go by, to Forrest learns to survive in this
agonizing space, but he also sees prison guards take men
from their cells and walk them around the corner to
the death chamber, and he wonders when they are coming
(54:35):
for him?
Speaker 6 (54:36):
Is he next?
Speaker 10 (54:40):
He just started crying and I asked him what was wrong,
and he said that he had just assumed that they
could come any minute and take him to be executed.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
That's next time. Ear Witness is a production of Lava
for Good podcast in association with Signal Company Number One.
Executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and
me Beth Shelburn. The investigative reporting for this series was
(55:13):
done by me and MARAA McNamara. Producers are MARAA McNamara,
Hannah Bial, and Jackie Pawley. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer.
Britt Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from
Marie Sutton, fact check help from Katherine Newhan, and special
(55:35):
thanks to to Forrest Johnson's legal defense team. You can
follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and Twitter at
Lava for Good. To see behind the scenes content from
our investigation, visit Lava for goood dot com slash ear
Witness
Last time on ear witness.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
You are in a position now to be one of
two things.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Okay, you can either be a witness or you can
be a defendant. R.
Speaker 4 (00:25):
Dregus was in his wheelchair sitting there, and he looked
at me and he said, listen, I'm not gonna lie
for anybody. I would happy to give to Forrest up
in a heartbeat, except it would be a lie, and
I'm not gonna lie. I said, all right, well, they're
going to wheel you to jail and they're gonna charge
you with capital murder, which is definitely offense. And he goes,
(00:48):
I wasn't there, tell him to take me to jail,
and they did.
Speaker 5 (00:53):
Charged with capital murder of a law enforcement officer. Our
twenty two year old toward Forrest Johnson, twenty one year
old Our drag Us Ford, twenty three year old oh
Min Berry, and twenty one year old Quinn tes Wilson.
They are held without bond.
Speaker 6 (01:09):
Evidence wise, well, we had visually no evidence. We had
the word of a fifteen year old who told lies,
a lot of lies.
Speaker 7 (01:22):
Ilie outline a fly.
Speaker 6 (01:25):
We had this table empty, wasn't nothing on it, and
we were still trying to try the case, and we
were like, man, what we gonna do.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I'm gonna win this.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
It's nineteen ninety seven, two years after Deputy Bill Hardy
was killed to Forrest Johnson and Ardregis Ford are headed
to trial for the murder, and so far, the only
evidence the state has presented connecting them to the crime
is the changing story of Yolanda Chambers. But there was
(02:12):
something else, something detectives had known about for two years,
something they kept quiet until now.
Speaker 8 (02:22):
This is sorry to Tom saw for Jeffson County Sheriff's
firmat President of the Room, or sorry to Tony Richson
and missus Violet Ellison and her daughter, Katrina Ellison.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Violet Ellison, a fifty three year old black woman, and
her sixteen year old daughter Katrina, met with detectives Tony
Richardson and Tom Salter at the Sheriff's office. Violet Ellison,
who knew Deputy Hardy, came forward a few weeks after
Hardy's murder. She called investigators seven days after the governor
(02:58):
announced an additional ten t one thousand dollars for information,
bringing the total reward offered in the case to twenty
thousand dollars. Her recorded interview with detectives is less than
seven minutes long.
Speaker 8 (03:14):
Mis Ellison, would you tell us about the information that
you have for us?
Speaker 9 (03:20):
You got a name Fred, I'm not sure of his
last name.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Call my daughter.
Speaker 10 (03:24):
Katrina Ellison home.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
Violet Ellison says some guys in the jail were asking
Katrina to make three way calls for them so they'd
only have to pay for the original call to Katrina.
They didn't want to keep feeding quarters into the payphone.
One of those guys was named Fred, and he.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Asked my daughter to use her three way to call for.
Speaker 11 (03:49):
His homeboy, and he named the fellow's name is Tamars Johnson.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Violet Ellison says her daughter dialed the number of a
girl named Daisy to create a three way call. In
the jail, Fred handed the phone to Forest so that
he could talk to Daisy back in the Ellison house.
Once Katrina heard the three way call go through, she
put the phone down and walked away, but her mom,
(04:17):
Violet Ellison, picked it up and listened in.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
He said that on the night of the.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Ancident.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Violet Ellison tells detectives that she heard to Forest Johnson
telling Daisy what happened the night of Deputy Bill Hardy's murder.
I've listened to this recording over a dozen times and
it's not easy to follow, but in summary, Violet says
that to Forest described following a man. They planned to
(04:50):
rob a man.
Speaker 12 (04:53):
And they had been following this man.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
This man had a girl with him, and the girl
had a gun gone a shot was fired.
Speaker 10 (05:02):
It was one shot that was fired.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
And Deputy Hardy heard the commotion and came out to investigate.
Speaker 8 (05:09):
Investigate, and that's when.
Speaker 11 (05:14):
Tavars Johnson shot one time and he named another guy,
which was.
Speaker 10 (05:25):
Quin to your tas both.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Of them shot, She says she overheard to Forrest Johnson
say that he and quint Has Wilson each fired one
shot at Deputy Hardy. At this point, quint Has Wilson
was also in jail charged with Hardy's murder. The story
Violet Ellison tells police is disjointed. There are a lot
(05:51):
of details that are similar to the facts about the
case that were reported in the news, but others that
don't fit the evidence at the crime scene, and after
less than seven minutes, detectives say they have no further
questions for Violet Ellison and her daughter.
Speaker 8 (06:09):
That makes a lot of sense. Do you think they
are okay?
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Two years after Violet Ellison first comes to police, the
state is preparing to put Ardregis Ford and to Forrest
Johnson on trial, but Yolanda Chambers is falling apart. She's
recanted her testimony under oath, and she doesn't always show
up to court when she's supposed to be there. It's then,
(06:46):
in their time of need two years later, that detectives
suddenly remember Violet Ellison's statements.
Speaker 6 (06:55):
BALI, that was k marking that door. You stand up
on this dayling and say what she said. We got
a full table. Now we got all the evidence we need. Well,
not that we need, we'd like to have a lot more,
but we got evidence.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Violet Ellison would become the states star witness and the
trial against Forrest Johnson and her ear witness testimony would
be the key evidence linking him to Deputy Hardy's murder.
But there wouldn't be just one trial for the murder
of Deputy Hardy, or two or even three. The state
(07:34):
will pursue four capital murder trials, and at each of
these four trials, the state will present separate, mutually exclusive
theories about who pulled the trigger and fired the fatal shots.
I'm Beth Shelburne. This is ear witness, Chapter five. Anybody
(08:00):
will do if Tony Richardson was initially enthusiastic about Violet
(08:32):
Ellison's revelations. I can't tell by the investigative file. He
wrote a report about the meeting he had with her.
It's just seven sentences long, concluding the conversation concerned the crime.
That's it. Detectives and prosecutors do not publicly mention Violet
(08:54):
Ellison or her claims for the next two years. It's
like they just forgot about her. The most glaring example
of this, Detective Richardson testifies at a grand jury hearing
five months after his conversation with Violet Ellison. He says
(09:14):
under oath that all four men charged with capital murder
were in the back parking lot of the Crown Sterling
Suites when Hardy was killed, but he says Omar Berry
and Ardregis Ford were the shooters. This story is based
(09:34):
on one of his conversations with Yolanda Chambers, and Detective
Richardson tells the grand jury there is no doubt that
Yolanda Chambers is telling us the truth. There is no
mention of Violet Ellison and tel To Forest is on trial,
(10:05):
but the state puts ardregas Ford on trial.
Speaker 12 (10:08):
First, my grandmother spent everything she had, everything that a
poor woman had. She spent our money to defend him,
you know, to get him the best.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Representation she could.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Ardregas's cousin, Nicole Blunt Kerksey, comes to my house to
talk to me about the case. She's wearing a patterned
dress and cowboy boots. Her hair is pulled back into
a high bun. For many years, she grew up in
the same house as ar Dregas. Their mothers are sisters.
Speaker 9 (10:43):
It was a lot of money for a poor family.
It really was a lot of My grandmother had a
lot of money saved back then. Even poor people like
she didn't spend everything she had. She always put money back.
She worked for a Union Envelope, which was like a
factory over in Press City for years, and then she
used to wash clothes and clean houses for people, and
(11:07):
so she just tucked a lot of that money, she
just tucked it away, and she exhausted just about everything
to try to get him the representation that he needed
for that trial. Other than my grandmother's money. I mean
we had barbecues and just you know, things to raise
money so that we could pay the attorney.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Ardregas's mom, Joyce, tells me the same thing. So you
had to raise.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Some of the money, some of it.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Yeah, do you remember how much you ended up paying?
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Looked like, I don't know, might have been over for
the thousand or something. Mother.
Speaker 11 (11:50):
It's a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
It was.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
Ar Dregas's family hires Richard Jaffe, a renowned defense attorney
who would represent it dozens of people facing the death
penalty to Forrest. Johnson's cousin, Antonio Green remembers trying to
figure out what his family could do to get to
Forrest the best legal defense available.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
One of the prominent attorneys during that time.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
Me and my uncle went and talked to him about
taking this case for the forest during that time, and
he told us it's right, that's in his office. He said,
bring him a ten thousand dollars retainer and he'll bring
our love one home. Of course, ten thousand dollars, he
might well say ten million at that time to me,
(12:38):
you know, and you know, we just we just didn't
have it, couldn't do it.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
Everybody scratching to make it and feed the family.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
And we all understood that because I'm thinking, okay, I
got to get a loan, I got to do you
know something. But that was what was amazing too. Bell
to fires he understood that. He was like, because don't
worry about that. I'm gonna be all right. I didn't
do this. That this old thing. They're not gonna lock
me up because I didn't do this.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Judge Alfred Bayhackle appoints two attorneys to represent to forrest,
a sharply dressed thirty two year old black man named
Darryl Bender and Erskine mathis a white, middle aged former
police officer with a thick mustache. In nineteen ninety seven,
Alabama paid appointed defense attorneys just twenty dollars an hour
(13:34):
for work outside the courtroom, with a cap of one
thousand dollars. Most appointed lawyers can't afford to work for free,
so this very low cap limited how well they could
prepare for trial. Ardregis Ford is first to go to
(13:58):
trial in November of no nineteen ninety seven. There's a
photo of him in the newspaper. He's sitting in his
wheelchair in court wearing a starched collared shirt and dark blazer.
The junior prosecutor on the case is a thirty four
year old black man named THEO Lawson. Jeff Wallace is
(14:19):
the lead prosecutor. He's tall, white, a commanding figure in
the courtroom, forty three years old, twelve years into his career.
Speaker 7 (14:30):
I think my reputation was of being a tough prosecutor,
meaning if I had the case, I pushed it toose limits.
And I think my reputation might be that I was
maybe a little too tough. Sometimes I hope that's not true,
but I'm afraid it might be true.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Jeff Wallace was assigned to major cases and aggressively sought
to please his boss, DA David Barber, who was a
tough on crime leader focused on getting convictions, and this
the case was personal for Jeff Wallace. He knew the victim.
Speaker 7 (15:05):
Every prosecutor who is diligent works closely with the police,
and when something happens to one of them, you're not
one of the boys in blue, as they say, but
they're your friends. So when this happened at Deputy Hardy,
he got my attention.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
The trial against ar dregas Ford starts at one fifty
pm on November fifth. In a short opening statement, the
prosecution summarizes the crime for the jury, arguing that ar
dregas Ford is guilty of capital murder. They don't mention
a motive. Afterwards, Jeff Wallace calls the county's chief medical
(15:46):
examiner to the stand. He explains that Hardy's wounds were
at an upward angle through his head. Jeff Wallace argues
this would be consistent with Ardregis firing the show shots
from his wheelchair. Prosecutors also call Yolanda Chambers as a witness,
(16:06):
even though she recanted her story in court a year ago.
Since then, she's gone back to saying that she was
there when Hardy was killed. She now says she saw
ardregas Ford fire at least one shot Richard Jeffy. Ardregas's
lawyer argues that if the hotel witnesses had seen ardregas
(16:30):
Ford commit the crime, they would have seen this.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Ur dregas Ford wheeling up about thirty feet of an
incline in his wheelchair, somehow finding an ability to shoot
two shots into Deputy Hardy, then be wheeled down by
someone all the way back to their car. The wheelchair
(16:58):
would have had to been put in Thereregas. That's what
I had to have been physically put into the driver's seat.
DeForrest would have had to have gotten back into the
passenger seat, and then they would have driven off, and
that would have taken at least a minute or two minimum.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Of course, no one at the hotel saw anything like that.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
The only thing they had on our Dregas forward was
Yolanda Chambers.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Jaffe calls witnesses to the stand who saw Ardregas at
Tea's place at the same time that Deputy Hardy was shot.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
We didn't call any witnesses other than alibi witnesses.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
The key decision the jury has to make. Do they
believe Yolanda chambers testimony that Ardregas killed Deputy Hardy behind
the Crown Sterling suites, or do they believe the three
alibi witnesses who say he was at Tea's place at
the same time that Deputy Hardy was murdered. The jury
(18:07):
votes ten to two to acquit Ardragas Ford, but that's
not enough. Murder trials require a unanimous verdict. Since this
decision was split, Judge bay Hackle declares a mistrial, but
ardregas Ford is not set free. The state plans to
try him a second time. Two weeks later, the first
(18:53):
trial against to Forest Johnson begins. Here's to Forrest's cousin,
Antonio Green.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
I remember me personally myself. I was very optimistic. I
was very optimistic simply because I knew what they had,
which was nothing as far as evidence goes. I'm like, Okay, well,
it's just a part of the process. They'll hear the
evidence or like thereof and we'll be going home, you know,
and this is all over. But as the days went on,
(19:23):
from the first couple of days of the trial, you
could see a really different environment in the courtroom.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
The only video from the trial I've seen is a
short TV news clip. It's filmed through a window on
the courtroom door, and to Forrest looks so young, much
younger than twenty four. He's clean shaven, baby faced, dressed
for court in a striped button down shirt and tie
with a gray blazer. He looks around the courtroom, maybe
(19:56):
he's nervous, but then he lights up with the huge
smile when he sees a family member who comes over
to speak with him. The state's lead prosecutor Jeff Wallace
gets up in front of the jury. Just two weeks earlier,
he argued that our Dregis Ford shot Deputy Hardy, but
now he tells a completely different story. He says that
(20:20):
to Forrest Johnson shot Hardy. The theory that the shooter
was seated in a wheelchair is never mentioned, and Yolanda
Chambers never sets foot in the courtroom. Instead, the prosecution
tells the jury in opening statements that they will hear
evidence that will convince them beyond a reasonable doubt that
(20:40):
to Forrest shot and killed Deputy Hardy. Then Jeff Wallace
introduces the state's new star witness, Violet Ellison. She tells
the jury she evesdropped on several three way calls because
she was concerned about her daughter talking to people at
the jail, and because she's naturally nosy. She says she
(21:04):
contacted detectives six days after she listened in on the
first call because she couldn't sleep after hearing information about
the murder of Deputy Bill Hardy. On the stand, Violet
Ellison tells the jury that she overheard to Forrest say
these words, I shot the fucker in the head, and
(21:26):
I saw his head go back and he fell, and
he shouldn't have got in my business messing up my shit.
There was no mention of I shot the fucker in
(21:46):
the head or anything like that. And Violet Ellison's original
recorded statement to police, she did write the statement down
in notes on the back of an envelope that she
submitted to police, but she gave them these notes six
weeks after her first recorded statement on the stand. She
(22:10):
says she jotted down the notes while she listened in
on the call between to Forest and Daisy, and then
copied the notes onto a sheet of paper. But it's
hard for me to believe that these notes were written
during the phone call she claims she overheard. For example,
Violet Ellison is adamant in her testimony that she heard
(22:33):
to Forest only use his first name, but her notes
refer to him as Johnson. If she was just writing
down what she heard while she heard it, why wouldn't
she have written to Forest? How would she have known
his last name to Forrest's attorneys also say that what
(22:57):
Violet Ellison heard was just one side of a conversation.
They say to Forest was telling Daisy what he was
accused of doing, not what he did. He was responding
to her question, why are you in jail? But when
Darryl Bender questions Violet Ellison, she tells him she's positive
(23:18):
that Daisy never asked to Forest why he was in jail.
But then she also says that she didn't pay any
attention to Daisy's side of the conversation because she was
only interested in what to Forest had to say. If
this feels confusing to you, welcome, I've been trying to
(23:39):
make this make sense for two years. How can Violet
Ellison insist that she knows what Daisy did or did
not say, while also admitting that she only listened to
one side of the conversation. Antonio Green, to Forest's cousin,
remembers watching Violet Ellison on this stand.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
The only evidence supposedly they had against was this ear
witness who had never heard him speak before, who had
no idea who he was. But to sit in there
and see how the system from you know, the judge,
the prosecutors and all that pushed that case towards him.
(24:22):
I mean constantly it was he did it. We got
the right one. He did it, and forget the evidence.
Don't worry about that we're just telling you he did it.
It's pretty much it's all they had.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
When Violet Ellison finishes testifying, Daisy Williams takes the stand,
she says to Forrest did not admit to the murder
on that phone call, and she never heard him say
the things Violet Ellison claimed to overhear. So Violet Ellison,
(24:55):
a friend of the victim, says she heard one thing.
Daisy Williams, friend of the accused, says she heard another.
The case comes down to who the jury will believe.
(25:18):
After five days of testimony to Forrest's supporters nervously wait
as the jury begins to deliberate, and once again, the
jury cannot reach a unanimous decision. Nine jurors vote to convict,
but three others are not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt.
(25:39):
The judge declares a mistrial.
Speaker 3 (25:45):
They deliberated and they couldn't come to a verdict, so
they took him back to kept him locked up, and
immediately pretty much scheduled another date for a second trial.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
So there wasn't really any time to celebrate.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
No, no, oh no, no, it wasn't any of that.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
And then even then I didn't think I didn't look
at it as any type of victory, because an innocent
man should be found innocent.
Speaker 13 (26:34):
Later on, Yeah, I'm nice to see you, Jeff.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I'm at Shelburn. You can call me back.
Speaker 11 (26:41):
Can I call you?
Speaker 13 (26:42):
Jeff?
Speaker 11 (26:43):
Okay? Great.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Jeff Wallace prosecuted both to Forrest and Ardregis. When I
emailed him to set up an interview, he asked me
to meet him at the large Methodist church he attends
in a Birmingham suburb. He's now retired, but spent twenty
five years as a pro in Jefferson County.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
Beautiful.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Sure, we record the interview in the church's empty sanctuary.
He tells me he prefers to do interviews standing up
because of all of his courtroom experience. So we're standing
in this sanctuary at the altar, facing each other, having
this conversation in front of a giant pipe organ. The
(27:23):
way we're set up, it feels like we're either here
to debate or get married. Anyway. This is why the
recording sounds a little echoey.
Speaker 7 (27:34):
We had a weak case. It's placed on testimony of
one witness.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
Jeff Wallace remembers that the case against to Forrest Johnson
hinged on the testimony of Violet Ellison.
Speaker 7 (27:45):
That is extremely strong evidence if it's believed. Of course,
the question becomes, so you believe that evidence? Well? To
believe that evidence, you have to believe mis Ellison. To
believe mis Ellison, you have to look at the facts
how she said it happened.
Speaker 11 (28:00):
To.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Forrest's second trial begins eight months after the first one
ends in a mistrial. Jeff Wallace is the lead prosecutor. Again.
He calls Violet Ellison to the stand, where she testifies
that she overheard to Forrest admit to Hardy's murder on
a three way phone call. Jeff Wallace says Violet Ellison
(28:22):
listened in on the calls because she was concerned about
her daughter, and once again to Forrest's attorneys call Daisy Williams,
who maintains that to Forest never confessed to the murder.
To Forest's lawyer, Darryl Bender asks Daisy, did he describe
to you the series of events that he said had occurred?
(28:45):
Daisy no? Bender? Did he tell you where this happened again,
Daisy no Bender? Did he tell you that he had
killed somebody? Daisy no, Sir. Jeff Wallace tries to cast
doubt on Daisy's testimony. He says, maybe Daisy is testifying
(29:07):
about a different call, or maybe she's just the wrong Daisy.
Yet again, it's one witnesses word against another. Right before
Jeff Wallace addresses the jury for closing statements, he picks
up a piece of evidence, Deputy Hardy's hat, the one
(29:27):
that he would always wear on duty, the one he
was wearing when he was shot. It has a bullet
hole through the brim. Jeff Wallace argues that Violet Ellison
heard to Forrest Johnson bragging about what he did. Wallace
(29:48):
turns to the jury and says, let me read you
the words, his words, not mine. I shot the fucker
in the head. I saw his head go back and
he fell. He should never have gotten my business messing
up my shit. He says these words to the jury
(30:12):
like this is an on the record statement directly from
to Forrest Johnson, when it's really Violet Ellison's testimony of
what she says she overheard, however it occurred. Wallace continues,
he's proud of his role in it, and don't forget that,
(30:34):
no matter how many shots were fired, he's proud of
the one he put into Deputy Hardy's head. Here's his
respect for Bill Hardy. Wallace throws Hardy's hat onto the
courtroom floor. He's as guilty as they come. Judge bay
(30:59):
Hackle gives the jury instructions to carefully consider all of
the evidence. They begin deliberations at four twenty five pm
on a Friday afternoon to Forest's family waits for the verdict.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
He's a defendant, but he's innocent until proven guilty.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
That didn't seem to be the case in the courtroom
during that time.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
It was like, you have to go above and beyond
to prove you're innocent because as a right now you're guilty.
And that was that there was a dark feeling in there.
You couldn't you couldn't get around it.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Two and a half hours later, at seven to ten pm,
the jurors file back into the courtroom with their decision
to Forrest Johnson is found guilty of capital murder. Judge
bay Hackle schedules the penalty phase for the following Monday.
(32:00):
This is when the jury will decide to Forrest's fate,
should he be sent to prison for life without parole
or put to death. For Hardy's murder. The penalty phase
of a capital murder case represents the highest stakes in
our criminal justice system. Defense attorneys often call lots of
(32:20):
witnesses and sometimes spend weeks presenting evidence to try to
convince the jury to spare their client's life. The penalty
phase hearing for to Forest Johnson lasts only eighty minutes.
To Forrest's attorneys call three members of his family to testify.
(32:41):
When Erskine Mathis asks to Forre's grandmother, you know what
we're here for today, she answers, well, yeah, I guess
not really, though it's clear Mathis and Bender didn't adequately
prepare her for the hearing. On the stand, to Forrest's mother,
Donna cries so hard she can barely hold her head up.
(33:04):
At one point, Mattha says to her, listen to me.
Can you raise your head up and look at me?
Donna Johnson tells the jury through her tears, just don't
give my baby no electric chair. The final witness is
to Forrest's cousin, Antonio Green.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
I'm fifty two years old and until the day, that's
probably one of the hardest things I've ever had to do,
was get on that stand and beg for his life.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
The jury deliberates to Forrest's fate for over five hours.
In the decision about whether or not to Forest should
live or die, all of the jurors don't have to agree.
A unanimous vote is needed for guilt or innocence, but
a jury in Alabama can sentence a person to death
(33:57):
with a majority vote of ten to two, and just
after five pm they reach a decision with the minimum
number of votes needed ten to two. The jury recommends
the death penalty. Judge Alfred Baackle affirms the recommendation that
(34:26):
to Forrest Johnson be executed for the murder of Deputy
Bill Hardy. One newspaper reports that to Forest sat motionless
as the jury's recommendation was read, appearing to be stunned.
To Forrest's mother, Donna, screamed no, no, no. To Forrest's
(34:51):
oldest daughter, Shane, was in the courtroom that day. She
was six years old at the time, and I.
Speaker 13 (34:58):
Just kept kind of trying to get his attention and
blurting out how nice he loved in his suit, And
so finally the judge kind of had me escorted out.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Of the courtroom.
Speaker 13 (35:10):
But there's a little small window and my cousin had
me on his shoulders. He escorted me out. He had
me on his shoulders so I could just peek through
and see my dad through that little small courtroom window,
and ironically stole that was my last memory of him in.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
The free world.
Speaker 14 (36:12):
So my thing is this, why didn't they abandon reach
out to me?
Speaker 1 (36:19):
To Flores Felanick Sanders aka Quisy, still wonders why to
Forrest's attorneys didn't call her or Mama Cat to testify
at his second trial like they did in the first one.
Speaker 14 (36:33):
That makes me feel like we failed them because we
saw them and we wasn't the only ones, so it's
like what we said didn't even matter, like they didn't
take it into consideration.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Mama Cat and Quisi were important alibi witnesses at his
first trial who saw him at Tea's place the night
party was murdered, and their testimony may have created enough
reasonable doubt to prevent a guilty verse. Instead, to Forrest's
attorneys called two other witnesses from Teas, but these witnesses
(37:08):
didn't seem well prepared and were flustered on the stand.
I wondered the same about Marshall Kelly Cummings, the Keebler
cookie guy. Why didn't they call him as a witness
in the second trial? What he saw out the window
one person slowly driving away in a copper colored car
(37:31):
that contradicted the state's story, But the jury that sentenced
to Forrest to death never heard from him. The third
difference between to Forest's first and second trials involves Latania Henderson,
the friend of Yolanda Chambers who was in the car
with to Forest and Ardregis after they left Tea's place. Remember,
(37:55):
Latania was facing a charge of hindering prosecution. She went
to jail for five months because she refused to go
along with Yolanda chambers story. At the time of Taforest's
second trial, Latania was still facing this charge when prosecutor
Jeff Wallace called her as a witness right before the
(38:17):
jurors were brought into the courtroom. Jeff Wallace told the judge,
the state wants to secure her testimony, and in that regard,
we are dismissing her hindering prosecution case. For years, Latania
said that she didn't know anything about Deputy Hardy's murder
and it was only just before she took the stand
(38:40):
for the prosecution that the state dropped the felony charge
against her poof like magic. When she took the stand,
Latania stuck to her story that she wasn't there when
Hardy was murdered, that no one in Rodregis's car talked
about killing anyone. But she did say that she had
(39:02):
a gun that night, and so did to Forrest. On
the stand, she said she hid her gun on the
tire of another car, and that Ardregis Yolanda and to
Forrest hid the other gun under the dashboard. Police searched
Ardregas's car after they impounded it. They never found a gun,
(39:24):
but Latanya's testimony put a gun into Forrest's hand on
the night of the murder, and this likely stuck with
the jury and finally to Forest's lawyers called an unexpected witness.
Speaker 10 (39:40):
The thing that happened to me that is the most
just stunning is putting Elanda Chambers on the stand in
the defense case.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
Derek Drennan was a young lawyer working with Jaffey on
Ardregas's case at the time. Both attorneys were paying close
attention to to Forrest's truckles. When I first read the
trial transcript, I wondered why would the defense call Yolanda
Chambers to the stand, And Derek had the same question
(40:12):
as he watched it unfold.
Speaker 10 (40:15):
Why would you call the only person on the planet
who will testify on her oath that your client was there?
You know, and lia I mean knowing they're lying about it.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
Yolanda testified that she was at the scene of the
crime with to Forest, Latanya and Ardregis. She said it
was Ardregas, not to Forrest who killed Deputy Hardy, but
still her testimony directly contradicted to Forrest's alibi that he
was at Teas place.
Speaker 10 (40:50):
They're asking a Drew to believe her when she says,
you know, Johnson didn't shoot him forward it. I don't
know how that could that could be justified. There's nobody
on the planet that's going to put your client on
that parking lot that night except for Yolanda Chambers. Nobody
(41:13):
will and to put her up there to say that
their client was innocent because Ford did. It just beyond me.
You know, that to me is just it's just really inexplicable.
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Prosecutor Jeff Wallace seized on this at trial. In his
closing statement, he told the jury. If you go back
in the jury room and decide that Yolanda Chambers ought
not to have been allowed to testify because she's a
liar or whatever you might decide about her, that's okay.
State didn't call her the defense. Did I want you
(41:59):
to rem that. I called both of to Forrest's original
trial lawyers to ask about the decisions they made in
defending to Forest, but neither would sit down with me
for an interview.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
We forget sometime that there was a third person on
that phone who told him to discredits what this lady says.
She heard you know what I mean? And now, how
much closer can you get than that you're the third
party in that three way conversation and you say, no,
that's not what it was.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
I needed to find the person on the other end
of the phone call that Violet Ellison overheard. The person
who actually talked to to Forest, Daisy Williams. Daisy was
nineteen when she testified it to Forest's second trial. She's
now in her mid forties and has never spoken publicly
(43:02):
about the case, but she agrees to come to my
house to talk.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I'm a mechanic.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
How did you get into being a mechanic into working.
Speaker 11 (43:11):
On Camba growing up.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
I love cars.
Speaker 11 (43:15):
I have a seventy one four at home now that
I'm trying to restore. I love working all them. I love,
you know, going to like the car races and everything.
Speaker 1 (43:23):
We settle in on the couch and talk for over
an hour.
Speaker 11 (43:27):
So Fars is a real good person.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
He got a real good.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Heart, Daisy tells me to Forrest was friends with her
two brothers, Charles and Eugene. They used to hang out
and play basketball when they were growing up in Pratt City,
and her story about what happened on that phone call
is consistent. What she tells me more than twenty five
years later doesn't vary from what she said on the stand.
Speaker 11 (43:54):
My cousin actually called me because he was in the
county jail at the time.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
And who was that?
Speaker 13 (44:00):
Was that?
Speaker 2 (44:00):
Fre Fred Carter?
Speaker 1 (44:01):
Okay, Yeah, So when that initial call came to you,
I guess Fred had called Katrina Violet Ellison's daughter, and
then she made the three way call to connect him
to you. Yes, and then he put to Forrest On
is that how it went?
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yes?
Speaker 11 (44:19):
He actually, like I said, he told me, he was like, yes,
who up here with me? And he knew, you know,
we all grew up in Press City together. And he
was like, to far, it's not like for real, and
he was. He gave Forrest phone, let me talk to him.
So I'm talking to him, like, man, what's going on?
And he told me I've been accused of, you know,
killing somebody. And I was like, man, you got a
lawyer and he was like yeah. And we left it
at dick. We didn't go no further with that conversation
(44:41):
about the depth they that share. He said he was
accused and that's all he said to me.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
Why did the jury believe this woman who eavesdrop on
the call over you who actually.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Had on the call.
Speaker 11 (44:55):
I don't understand. I never understood it. You know, they
went on hearsay, They went on which she says she overheard.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
They didn't actually.
Speaker 11 (45:03):
Listen to me. I was young, so I feel like
by me being young, they didn't actually listen to me. Oh, well,
she's just you know, somebody you know knows she probably
just saying something.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
And that's how I felt.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
There are two recurring questions that come up when to
Forest's family and friends talk with me about the case.
The first, why isn't Violet Ellison's testimony hearsay. Usually something
that someone overheard is considered hearsay and not admissible as
(45:42):
evidence in court. To Forest's lawyers tried to argue that
Violet Ellison's testimony was hearsay to get it thrown out,
but the judge overruled them. It turns out there is
an exception to the hearsay rule when someone claims to
overhear the fen admitting to the crime. The second isn't
(46:05):
the jail supposed to record phone calls. According to testimony
from a jail supervisor, the phones in the Jefferson County
jail weren't equipped with the ability to record in nineteen
ninety five. One of the hardest things to comprehend about
(46:29):
this case is what happens ten months after to Forrest
Johnson was convicted and sentenced to death. In June of
nineteen ninety nine, the state once again tries to convict
Ardregis Ford. Jeff Wallace prosecutes the Hardy case for the
fourth time. In the state's star witness, Yolanda Chambers, Violet
(46:55):
Ellison is never even mentioned, and Wallace presents yet another
theory of the crime. A fifth theory at the grand
jury hearing, the state argued that Ardregas and Omar Berry
killed Deputy Hardy. Then, at Ardregas's first trial, Jeff Wallace
(47:15):
said Ardregas was the only person who killed Deputy Hardy.
Then at to Forrest's first trial a month later, he
argued that to Forrest was the only shooter. A year later,
when to Forest was tried a second time, the state
said to Forrest fired a shot, and so did Quintez Wilson,
(47:36):
but they said Wilson was not being tried because of
a lack of evidence. And finally, after to Forrest, Johnson
was sentenced to death. And after Jeff Wallace characterized Yolanda
Chambers as a liar, he turns around and uses Yolanda
as his own star witness against Ardregis Ford. The jury
(48:01):
in Ardregas's second trial deliberates for less than an hour
and declares him not guilty. Ardregas is acquitted. I talked
to his cousin Nicole about that moment. I wonder how
that made you feel. I mean, did it make you
feel like the system worked? That ar Dregas was acquitted.
Speaker 11 (48:23):
It didn't make me feel like the system work.
Speaker 9 (48:25):
It showed me that Richard Jaffi did a wonderful job
defending him.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Ardregus and to Forrest had the same alibi. Nobody denies
that they were together the knight Hardy was killed, but
there was a major difference between their cases. Ardregas's family
was able to pay for a renowned attorney and to
Forrest's family wasn't. Meanwhile, prosecutors had a powerful tool at
(48:56):
their disposal, the ability to use multiple theories to get
the outcome. They were seeking someone to go down for
Hardy's murder.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
No prosecutors should be allowed to, in any case, much
less a death penalty case, to try two different defendants
for the same crime using a different theory and different
sets of witnesses, as if they're staging two Broadway plays
(49:29):
of the same scenario.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
Richard jeffy Ardregus's lawyer, this.
Speaker 4 (49:35):
Case is all about alternative worlds that are in conflict
with each other and in conflict with truth, and in
conflict with what our justice system stands for.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Arguing inconsistent theories isn't technically illegal, but I mean, come on,
five different theories. There is no way all five of
these theories can be true. These theories are mutually exclusive
in conflict with each other. I ask Jeff Wallace to
(50:11):
explain how could he argue these mutually exclusive theories against
two different people for the same crime.
Speaker 7 (50:21):
It's a valid question, but it's not the right question.
The right question is whether or not we argued something
that was supported by the evidence in that trial.
Speaker 1 (50:31):
But help me understand how as a prosecutor you can
argue that one person is the gunman in the killing
of a deputy, he's convicted and sentenced to death, and
then at a subsequent trial argue that another person was
the shooter.
Speaker 7 (50:48):
Well, it would not be, if I can be hyper technical,
it would not be the shooter of the same bullet.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
Jeff Wallace gives me a long winded ex explanation about
how two people could be guilty of the same crime if,
for example, one person shoots a victim and another fires
a shot but the bullet flies off into space. But
that's not what Jeff Wallace argued at trial the victim.
Speaker 7 (51:20):
You don't have to decide which one fired the shot
or both guilty.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
But the evidence showed that there was only one gun
and one gunman.
Speaker 4 (51:26):
Right.
Speaker 7 (51:27):
Oh, I don't know if you say that.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
I think that's what the firearms expert testified to he did.
A firearms examiner looked at the two shell casings found
at the murder scene and determined they had been fired
from the same nine milimeter pistol, indicating there was only
one shooter. I keep pressing him. I want Jeff Wallace
(51:53):
to tell me how he squared in his own mind
these contradictory theories about who fired the fatal shots. Jeff
and I go round and round. In theory. Prosecutors are
employed to seek the truth. They don't have a mandate
to obtain convictions. But the law allowed him to do
(52:15):
what he did. And Jeff Wallace told me himself he
was known to push a case to its limits.
Speaker 7 (52:22):
I'm afraid that my reputation was that I was fairly
pan Oh. I tried to follow all the roads, tried
to do exactly what the boss wanted done, and so
I tried to follow all orders. And now wish I'd
been a little more yielding. Sometimes I wish I'd seen
(52:44):
a little more gray. But I was fairly black and white.
Speaker 5 (52:46):
And.
Speaker 7 (52:48):
I'm afraid I was fairly mean. And I'm not necessarily
proud of that.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
As to Forrest's family watched their worst nightmare unfold. It
was clear that he wasn't the only one failed by
these trials. They also thought about Deputy Bill Hardy and
his family.
Speaker 3 (53:11):
You know, the victim's family deserved to know what happened
to their loved one, but they get no justice, no
peace out of a wrongful conviction, you know. And this
is simply a case of just anybody all do and
looking at it from the inside, it seems like the
whole thing was just put together like a puzzle. All
(53:36):
this is going on in a court of law that's
supposed to be the most honest place in our country.
Speaker 1 (53:52):
After he sentenced to death, correctional officers put to Forest
in a van and drive him two hundred miles south
of Birmingham. He arrives at Holman Prison and is assigned
a five y eight cell on death row, where he'll
spend twenty three hours a day. Roaches crawl everywhere, and
(54:12):
there's no air conditioning in the sweltering Alabama heat. As
months go by, to Forrest learns to survive in this
agonizing space, but he also sees prison guards take men
from their cells and walk them around the corner to
the death chamber, and he wonders when they are coming
(54:35):
for him?
Speaker 6 (54:36):
Is he next?
Speaker 10 (54:40):
He just started crying and I asked him what was wrong,
and he said that he had just assumed that they
could come any minute and take him to be executed.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
That's next time. Ear Witness is a production of Lava
for Good podcast in association with Signal Company Number One.
Executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wardis, and
me Beth Shelburn. The investigative reporting for this series was
(55:13):
done by me and MARAA McNamara. Producers are MARAA McNamara,
Hannah Bial, and Jackie Pawley. Kara Kornhaber is our senior producer.
Britt Spangler is our sound designer. Additional story editing from
Marie Sutton, fact check help from Katherine Newhan, and special
(55:35):
thanks to to Forrest Johnson's legal defense team. You can
follow the show on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook and Twitter at
Lava for Good. To see behind the scenes content from
our investigation, visit Lava for goood dot com slash ear
Witness
Host
Beth Shelburne
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