Perfectionism Is Self-Doubt

Trying to do your best is always a good thing. Until it keeps you from doing anything at all. The Ellises and the crew discuss when perfectionism is low key self-doubt. Watch the full video version early on Patreon! Go to https://Patreon.com/EllisEverAfter to see the After Show and more exclusive Ellis Ever After video content. And find us on social media at @EllisEverAfterPodcast, @khadeniam and @iamdevale, @joshua_dwain @_matt.ellis, @tribbzthecool. And if you’re listening on Apple podcasts, be sure to rate, review and subscribe. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Discipline over desire determines your destination, but perfection is not possible.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Look at you. With all of these, I always keep
favorite at my big age. I've realized that do people
tend to mask procrastination as the pursuit of perfection?

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Hmm?

Speaker 2 (00:33):
I wonder.

Speaker 1 (00:36):
It all started with real talk, unfiltered, honest and straight
from the heart. Since then, we've gone on to become
Webby award winning podcasters in New York Times bestselling authors.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
That Ask was more than a podcast for us. It
was about our growth, a place where we could be vulnerable.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
Be wraw urse, but most appointingly be us.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
But as we know, life keeps evolving and so do we,
and through it all, one thing has never This is
after because we got a lot to talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
So storytime, I'm going to take you back to summer
two thousand and three, some of two thousand. Yeah, this
is over twenty years ago. This is when Kadeen and
I had already been together for a year. But this
is also my first off season as a college athlete,

(01:27):
and I remember going into this offseason telling everybody I'm
approved to them that I belong here. As a freshman,
I didn't start I only played in two games. Both
games I played and I scored touchdowns. I felt like
I was a best receiver on the team, and because
of that, I felt like I had to show everybody
who I was. You know, I was the only receiver
at the time that was a walk on and had

(01:48):
to earn a scholarship other than me and Brian Woman.

Speaker 4 (01:50):
At the time.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
So I was just kind of tired of people like
putting me with the walk on group. So I was like,
I am going to be perfect in anything came to
depth of routes, when it came to catching the ball,
knowing all the plays, I wanted to be perfect. And
you know what happened with my pursuit of perfection. I failed.
My sophomore season at HAFTA was the worst year I
ever played in football. And I'm explaining to you why

(02:14):
since I was trying to do everything with the standard
of perfection. If I was slightly off, I didn't accept it,
which means I spent many days in a row never
reaching a standard that I saw value in it myself,
and I started to get depressed. And as I started
to get depressed, it started to be like can I
do this because I couldn't do it perfectly. I started
to tell myself, Oh can I do this? Then I

(02:34):
told myself, when I'm a sophomore, it's a sophomore slump.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
I'm supposed to go through this.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
So in chasing perfection and then not getting it, I
then told myself I wasn't supposed to be here at
this moment and accepted the failures and it was the
worst thing that could ever happen to me. My sophomore year.

Speaker 2 (02:49):
I remember that time all right karaoke. So I figured
perfection and people trying to do things their way to
pursue their pursuit of perfection. It only made sense to
sing I just like this song on My Way by
us y'all. I had nothing to do or nothing, and
I was like, oh, you're still on tour is see.

(03:09):
I wish you would go back and do his residency
because I was like the best one. I preferred the
residency over the tour.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
I feel like the residency was more intimate. Yeah, but
we're not going to keep over. You're supposed to sing
my way.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
Will know you know I'm still getting better. You want
to help me out, please, I got you.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
But whatever you need, I got way.

Speaker 2 (03:26):
My way. I'm in contrust that met me to get
this funny.

Speaker 5 (03:42):
Why she's so fast.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
We never know the words, y'all, but y'all get the point,
okay about.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Doing things my way?

Speaker 6 (03:53):
Perfectionists, You are a perfectionists. Certainly am shout out to
Josh for bringing up this topic, because my wife is
a perfectionist and a lot of times she'll tell you
that leads to her procrastinating and.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
Not getting done. Me and Josh kind of cut from
the same cloth we've had.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
Oh yeah, we are. I'm glad Matt staring right at
you over there. You know who else is.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Like that too? Trouble Trible is definitely the type that's like,
if this ain't perfect, I'm not putting it out and
it will never go out. We want to pay some bills,
and we're gonna come back and attack these three. We're
gonna we're gonna attack these We're going.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
To call to the front of the congregation.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
You're gonna attack all of us. Yes, this nigga doesn't
live in a bubble just like us. Cat Oh we
got I can't wait for this.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Matt is hiding something that we don't know. That's the mystery.
Of Matt. That's why Matt will invite us over. That's
why Matt, guys. I'm just throwing it out there that
Matt hasn't invited us over to his house. And he's
lived here for two years, that is always here. But
Matt says he doesn't invite people to his house. So
we're just gonna pull up one of these days with
all the kids and we're going to break in. And
that's just what it is.

Speaker 4 (05:06):
We won't be just start cleaning the house.

Speaker 3 (05:08):
People on the way over.

Speaker 4 (05:11):
Look at that I want to start.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
I'm gonna change the door code. I'm not gonna let
him in unless he lets me over one day, Matthew,
So we're gonna come to the front of the congregation.

Speaker 4 (05:21):
But if she said you can't come in.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
Well, sometimes I'm looking for a place to send it out.
And where am I gonna send him?

Speaker 1 (05:31):
I say, you see, this is why I take the
cookies when I get the biggest.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
I mean, hey, it's a fair trade away. It's a
fair trade off.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
I think if they would have saw you by that address,
they would understand why you be trying to get rid
of me?

Speaker 2 (05:41):
All right, I understand. I'll stand up for you again
later and then.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Stand up for you again. Trust me. You know what, Yeah,
you know what I'm saying that I would stop playing with.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Twenty three years.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
Can we just go pay these bills?

Speaker 2 (05:56):
I would know better. Let's pay some bills, y'all. We'll
come back. Stick around for the snailigans. All right, We're back,
all right, Time for op or no op, take it away,
triple all right.

Speaker 5 (06:09):
This month is Father's Day.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
Shout out to all the father's baby to the two fathers.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
On the cast.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Amazing thing. Never want to do this life without, y'all.

Speaker 7 (06:21):
Yeah, big up to the guys who don't want to
be fathers because they've got some male birth control coming out,
but they do.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (06:29):
Yeah, it's an injection.

Speaker 7 (06:31):
It's some type of like jail that they inject into
the like semen ducks, sperm ducks, so that sperm doesn't
mix with the semen when it comes out here.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
They injected directly into the sack.

Speaker 5 (06:47):
Yeah, it's a I think it's an implant.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Oh, kind of like when women have like the the
implant that goes under the skin. Yeah, so this just
goes into the scrollum into that.

Speaker 7 (06:57):
Yeah, but I think it's just a jail and its
it says it's a water soluble hydrogel gel that's inserted
into the sperm ducks so the sperm doesn't mix with
the semen and they it said it it lasts for
two years.

Speaker 4 (07:13):
Oh, Josh said, he got out. This goes against all
that we stand for. I just want to say that first,
men or people men, Okay, Right, So my opinion in
general is women have been injecting stuff into them. Sorry,
women have been injecting things into them like forever or
placing things inside of them for the sake of not

(07:34):
having children. And I understand wanting to do this, but
this is this goes against everything that we stand for
as men. Right, does it come out?

Speaker 2 (07:45):
In what sense?

Speaker 4 (07:46):
Does it come out? You putting something in a block something?
Is it coming out?

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Says it's a jelu, So probably in after two years
it probably doesn't.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
No, no, no, that's coming out. I know that's coming out.
But is anything coming out?

Speaker 7 (08:00):
It is?

Speaker 2 (08:01):
It doesn't come out with sperms. It blocks the sperm,
but you can still ejaculate.

Speaker 4 (08:04):
And pulling out.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
No, you don't have to understand what I understand. It's
like getting to pisectomy. Remember when I was concerned that
it wouldn't be the same consistency. Oh, everything is still
the same.

Speaker 2 (08:18):
I can, yes, let you know that it is.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Everything is still the I didn't ask.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
I'm you didn't know.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
You didn't ask, but you technically did just ask. You
just said does it come out, which means does it
come out with the same.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
So it's not blocking an ejaculation, it's just brought the sperm.
That's what you meant by goes again because I'm like,
where is he going with? It goes against everything that
we stand for as a man, because it gotta come out.

Speaker 7 (08:43):
Yeah, we're doing men such a disservice by not giving
them birth control because as women, because we have to
do all this stuff, we have such an intimate relationship
with our anatomy.

Speaker 5 (08:54):
You niggas don't even know what seemen is.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
I do it.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
No, I do not.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
I know what semen y'all.

Speaker 5 (09:02):
Y'all don't know how it works. Y'all keep asking these
questions like.

Speaker 4 (09:05):
No, Josh asked answered the question. You just presented this
to me. My god, this is the problem. What am
I know what to do? Am I supposed to not
ask questions?

Speaker 1 (09:14):
You know what I'm glad Josh that you brought this up,
and I'm glad the Tripple brought this up because we
were talking about the female anatomy before this, and we
were saying that there's so many different things that women
go through that men don't know, and men, I mean
women expect us to know. We talked about the four
different phases of the menstal cycle and how you put

(09:35):
this pretty much four different people that live. That is
an actual fact, right, Men didn't know that, but women
will constantly be.

Speaker 5 (09:41):
Like, y'all didn't know that, Well, we didn't know for
a long time. A lot of us.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
I'm just learning about the luteal phase and all these
different phases and what emotions are corresponding with each week.
And then we feel like we're crazy half the time
because y'all tell us that we're crazy too. It's like,
I know I'm crazy, and then you co signed that
I'm crazy, But am I crazy? Or am I just
going through whatever my body is going through in the moment,
And it's yeah, no, no, no, no, but but no,

(10:07):
no change his dress.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
I'll change it with you. But no, you are right though, though,
you're right because you are going through changes and we
need to know. But I do kind of want to
get back to why you say it goes against everything?
Is it because you ejaculating is like the manliest thing?

Speaker 4 (10:25):
That's yeah, I mean that's part of it.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
Like he thought it was blocking ejaculation completely, and.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
You're saying it doesn't block, it just comes out just
what you think it's. Do you still have the same.

Speaker 4 (10:37):
App No, I don't. I do. I do have the
same app Now I'm not doing You're not with it? Now,
I'm not with it? Okay? Are you with EXECTI meies
you're not with exectories. I don't mind that, okay, okay,
But this is a foreign object, right. Exectly is a
procedure that's stopping something.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
This is a foreign object, which is the problem a
lot of women have with putting foreign in their bodies forever.

Speaker 4 (10:56):
And I see here it says non hormonal. Yeah, it's
not a non hormonal situation. So it's a foreign object
that's going into my body and we don't know what
the what the adverse respects of this is, Well, they.

Speaker 5 (11:08):
Said they've been testing it and there have been no
adverse effects recorded.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
No diarrhea, no leaky gut, no yellow eyes.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
When they put the joint on TV, it's going to
be like a whole bunch of stuff. Here go fall out,
your toe, nails go fall off.

Speaker 7 (11:24):
And this is a this is a reversible alternative to
the vissectomy because this will only last for two years.

Speaker 5 (11:30):
You get the implant taken out.

Speaker 4 (11:32):
But isn't the reversible checking bar?

Speaker 1 (11:36):
Yeah, so here's that it can be reversible.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
So here's my opponente because I can't speak to the
male anatomy, the nail male body. However, speaking about procreating
and having children, I think that men should be given
the option to say, you know what, I'm in a
space where I want to enjoy myself and I don't
want to have to worry about becoming a father before
my time. I don't want to have to make that decision.
So if he can take control over that, then it's

(12:00):
like why not. I'm all for that.

Speaker 4 (12:04):
I don't have an op.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
I had a vasectomy, So I'm all for men holding
the power and taking control over their own bodies if
there's something they want to do, especially if they have
a wife or a significant other. I gree with Josh
that putting something in your body is different than the vasectomy.
But I will also say this, now we've asked women
to take hormones, put in rings, put in coils.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Copper, and all sorts of gear.

Speaker 4 (12:30):
And for me, I'm not asking my wife to do that.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Oh and I'm not even talking about wives. I'm talking
about Say you a single dude out there right, my
first thing would be like to my sons, you need
to be putting on a fucking condom regards so you
don't need that anyway, but just in case you the
kind of breaks or something and you don't want to
have no kids. If you know for a fact you
don't have no kids, if this is healthy, and why not, Like,
to be.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Honest, why not prevent pregnancy. It's not preventing that.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
And everybody don't need to have kids. Everybody shouldn't. And
that's not a man thing. That's a man every person
and most some people you see here never wanted to
have the kids they have.

Speaker 5 (13:08):
It happened.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
And if there's a way to prevent that, I'm for that.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
Like just who around the South trips did you have
any feedback on it?

Speaker 7 (13:15):
I think men should definitely have birth control that they
are responsible for.

Speaker 5 (13:21):
I feel like the owner shouldn't be on women. The
medical field.

Speaker 7 (13:24):
They haven't done a lot of research on women's anatomy.
They've done more on men, so they should put it
on men to be responsible. And I think too, men
have the option of walking away when a woman gets pregnant,
when whereas a woman doesn't. The baby's in her body,
so if you don't want it, you should be responsible
for not having it.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
I do have a question too, though, to ask Allen's women.
I hear women say this all the time.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Men.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
If a man lays down with a woman and gets
her pregnant, but he has a chance to walk away,
that's unfair, right, But I do kind of feel like, well,
a woman also didn't have to lay down, So why
is it only put on a man like he got
her pregnant. She laid down and got herself pregnant too,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah, I think that's the case by case in thearor Yeah,
I agree that both people have to be responsible. I
think because women ultimately have the choice to have the
baby or not. Because you have choices, right when you
get pregnant and say you don't want the baby, you
can give it up for adoption. If you have the baby,
you can go get a plan B. If you know, like,
oh man, we got into a situation that we didn't
expect to be in. There's termination. There's so many options
available to women. So I think in that circumstance, you know,

(14:27):
giving men the power to create kind of their destiny
with knowing whether or not they want to have children
or not, with having them birth control method that works
because that way you don't leave it up to guests
with what the woman is going to do with her body,
because ultimately she has full autonomy over her body.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
I agree, I got four sons. I agree. I don't
want my sons to have to lay down and say
I hope she doesn't have it. I hope, to be honest,
I hope my sons would have used discernment before even
laying down with whoever, saying that, Okay, if I'm laying
down with her, then she might be the type of
person that I'll have a child with. But even if
you are laying down with her, if she's at the child,

(15:01):
you should have a choice contraceptive, whether it's a condom
or is this thing you're talking about. I think men
need to start taking more responsibility over what they do
with their seed, leaving it up to so only a woman.
To me is like, that's fuck boys shit if we
be honest, like, oh, she got pregnant, No, she didn't
get pregnant, nigga, right, you got her pregnant? Yeah, y'all,
I got pregnant.

Speaker 4 (15:20):
I would say, I do like that perspective, Ka, that
makes that makes perfect tense to me. And if that's
the situation for me personally, I'm just thinking about myself,
but in general, like that that is I mean, having
this Adam pill or whatever this thing is allows men
to like take control, right, So like, yeah, I know
for a fact that ain't mine, right, right, you know

(15:42):
what I mean?

Speaker 1 (15:43):
Right, So I get that, and then you won't get
that whose is it? It ain't mine? I'm on the
shot or you know what I'm saying. I got my
balls injected with this. It's not mine.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Now, you just hope that people will still take a
step further and we're condom so that there's influx of
it's not a past to just go out there and
be raw dog and everything. You know what I'm saying,
There has to still be that is.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
A deeper issue. Right about that. That's a deeper issue.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
So just be smart. People be smart.

Speaker 7 (16:08):
No on the same vein as Father's Day. I know
that you guys with kids in here, you try to
be good dads. But I often hear dad say they
don't get good gifts for Father's Day.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
We don't.

Speaker 7 (16:21):
So I'm like, does it make you feel doubtful as
a dad when your kids bring you a little shitty?
When they got mom, they got mom something to elaborate.

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Last month, that's they're gonna get their mom something elaborate.
I do have an op on that. I personally don't care.
My kids typically ask me that what you want for
Father's Day? And I to be like, I don't want nothing,
But they actually mother what you want? Well, I want flowers,
make sure you have a card, make sure we go
to dinner.

Speaker 4 (16:49):
So you ask your mom, your mom to do that,
Mom to do that. That's and that's why I feel
this way. I asked my mom, she tell me. I
asked my pops.

Speaker 1 (16:55):
He just be like, don't nothing. Ilse grill for y'all.
We watched the games. So to be honest, you can't
be upset at women saying exactly what they want. That
is just like the joke and complain, but realistically, I
don't want to go to a brunch.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Do not take me anywhere that's there. That's my devots hard.
He's hard in general. Like birthdays. Everyone always texts me
for birthdays and they're like, what do I get Devout?
We don't know what Devo wants his pajamas today, y'all
we were supposed to be dressing.

Speaker 4 (17:20):
Why they didn't even notice?

Speaker 2 (17:24):
Or are you serious? The theme around the theme around
elsejama like elevation. We're in a new space. Let's try
to dress nicely, make it a show. Blah blah blah.
And Deval comes down here in his Warriors pajama pans. Now,
I get just playoff basketball time. I get it, and
I get it that you're still holding on to dead ass.

(17:45):
But this is how he showed up to set today.
But that's indicative of who you.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Got a nice watch about, Thank you, Josh, because I
didn't realize I had on the dead ass shirt. I
woke up like this.

Speaker 2 (17:55):
Clearly you didn't make it like that exactly I was.
Which if you haven't gotten your dead ass merch, there's
not much less y'all is at this point of collector's
item invented, So make sure y'all hit up the website
and get what's left. But I'm just saying that to say,
devou is such a simple person, like he does not
want to go anywhere. So anytime I've tried to like, oh,
for Father's Day, we should go here, we should go that, devousa,
I don't want to go nowhere. It's my day. Why

(18:15):
are you trying to put your spin on what I
want for my day? I want you to sit at home.
I want to grill. He's like, essentially become his dad.
He's like, I want to sit home. I'll grill with
the boys, be hanging around, they get in the pool.
It's in June, they just got out to school. I
just want to chill with my family. And then still
I'll go and I'll buy him a couple of things here,
you know, a Mary's his spot or whatever, and then
he'll open it and it's like you didn't have to

(18:37):
get this, I didn't need this. So it's really ultimately hard.
But I get your point, tripe. But most of the time,
fathers feel like they're the second thought or they're the afterthought,
and that's not nearly the case. It's just that you
require less.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Well, let me ask, do fathers feel like they afterthought?
Do other people next to us say, why do y'all
do this.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
To dad's marketing your father's you know you think that's
what it is.

Speaker 4 (19:00):
I mean, there is a difference with how men and
women are celebrated on those days, like in general. But yo,
for me personally, I think, don't complicate that day. Yo,
Like it is my second birthday. Father's Day is literally
my second That's what it is. That's literally don't complicate it.
Like if I go to church on that Sunday, fine,

(19:22):
I come home. Not trying to go nowhere to eat, Nope.
I just want to sit down on a couch and
just watch TV. If y'all if this is a day
I'm celebrated, I don't celebrated. You're not gonna do something.
You do what you do. Like I don't give some
cool like I got I got five different mugs for
Father's Day. I got that. I don't even use them,

(19:44):
you know what I'm saying? Like one year, one year
I got like golf clubs. I love that. Would I
be okay without those golf clubs. I would absolutely be
okay with it. Why because I still haven't been to
damn driving ring, right, So don't overcomplicate my day. Just
let me chill man, like this is this is my
second birthday.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
So I know some moms we're for Mother's Day. Personally,
I like to be with my children on Mother's Day
because I feel like the kids look for me like
it's Mother's Day.

Speaker 4 (20:11):
I won't to be with y'all.

Speaker 2 (20:12):
Right, I know a contingent of moms that are like
for Mother's Day, send me away, take me away. I
don't want to be with them, damn kids. I have
a friend who every year, her husband books her a
hotel room from Friday night and she does not check
out until Sunday night because she just wants to be
alone to do nothing because she's always having to do something.
So it depends on the person. You gotta know your

(20:32):
person and know what they like and what they expect.
I'll just put it out there, baby, you don't have
to get me flowers as Mother's Day. I just bought
my Mother's Day gift.

Speaker 4 (20:43):
Y'all. See, y'all see how y'all see how this happening?
This go ahead, you what you gave me, whatever you bought,
Whatever you bought, you can have it.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
I just bought my Mother's Day gift. Guys, I got
a purse. I haven't got on in a well purse
you back. Don't worry about it. You'll see when we
go upstairs. Just don't check your phone yet. But I
couldn't make it to the store today because we had
to record. So just letting you know, just letting you
do not open your phone right now and making a thing.
But I'm just letting you know that just saved I

(21:16):
absolved him of having to go and shout for me. Yo. Today,
he was just happy.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
The go sit over there.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
What did you see? That's not mine? Okay, that's yours,
that's your.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
For me.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
No, I said, that was one of the expenses you had.
That wasn't an expense for me.

Speaker 1 (21:40):
Oh see, there's a bunch of I'm not even gonna
look at this.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
He's making it a thing. He's you know what I'm saying.
But in the pursuit of you trying to find the
perfect gift, as we're talking about the pursuit of perfection,
I found it for you, and I saved you. The trouble,
So don't worry about it.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
This is not making.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
It's just one little bag. I haven't brought a bag
in years, y'all. But since working, since is working now?
This is what I've always been working. But I'm working, y'all.
Gonna find out soon, I know.

Speaker 7 (22:15):
Cardi B said that she's gonna give her birkeens to
her daughter. Yeah, well you don't have any daughters, Kadeen.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
Are you making a look at this?

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Were talking about and somehow, somehow on Father's Day, Kadeen
got a bag and it's gonna pass it down.

Speaker 4 (22:31):
The triple won't be talking about God's triple. She really said,
you don't get me nothing. She led with, you don't
got to get me nothing.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Because I already got her something technical because you got it.

Speaker 2 (22:44):
To day, baby, you did. I saved you the trouble, honey.
I mean, if you'd like to get.

Speaker 1 (22:48):
More, listen, I don't. I don't have a problem giving
gifts and they're not for nothing. This actually goes back
like I'm joking. I really don't care what she getting
home thing, But this is the point. Kay says what
she wants. Women oftentimes say exactly what they want, show men,
especially dads, be like, I'm good, just leave me alone,
like and enough for nothing. If Kay says your mother's

(23:10):
that she want to go away, I'm gonna pay for
her go away and do this right. If I say
I want to go away for Father's Day, k would
definitely be like, yo, leave your pops alone. The thing is,
pops just normally don't say what they want.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
We really don't local guys. We're just trying to rock
our brain, trying to figure out what it is so
to make you feel special.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
You know you don't got to rock your brain. I
want cookies and brain and brain. That's all I want.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
And my lion, you're father, right, what do you want?
I just want somebody to pay attention, to be only me,
just for the day. And if that's gonna be you,
then that's what I want. Cookies and brain. Same thing
for Valentine's Day, right, Sandwich. Why do women get chocolates
and bracelets and diamonds as for Valentine's Day and we
don't get nothing but butt because that's what we asked for.
I don't want no diamonds, I don't want no cookies.

(23:54):
I don't want no flowers.

Speaker 7 (23:55):
I don't want to want to go to for Valentine's Day.
That was something you know, that's not all I want
to give, don't.

Speaker 5 (24:02):
Because because you're still for Valentine.

Speaker 4 (24:04):
I get it.

Speaker 5 (24:05):
That's that's gonna piss me off.

Speaker 4 (24:06):
That's why I couldn't they.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
Know lesbians because lesbians want to be women. And then
at the same time, Tripple want to funches, right, she
want toes and tell them bitches, Yo, I'm still a woman.

Speaker 4 (24:17):
You ready. Gift is a superwoman. All yes, she's complex,
He's super woman.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
I love it.

Speaker 5 (24:26):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
If I could go back and come back as anything,
I want to go back and come back as a
black lesbian. You know why. I have my own titties right,
my own pussy. I can play it with. I can
play with other people's titties and we talking.

Speaker 4 (24:39):
Plus on Valentine's Day.

Speaker 5 (24:40):
I get gifts that it is actually the best thing ever.

Speaker 1 (24:48):
See that lesbian privileged. Y'all heard it here first. Triple
don't be going through nothing in her life. Could you
imagine that people just die like diagnose lesbianism to like
Triple just have the perfect life. Couldn't that wouldn't that
be the most fucked up thing because TRUP will be
going through shit.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Is it perfect? Let's go on to perfectionist.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
We all talk about perfectionism.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
I'll be leading us down the path of somewhere else's.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
I know that that tends to happen. Do we have
another app or I forget what we know?

Speaker 5 (25:19):
I wanted this to lead and talking about perfectionism.

Speaker 7 (25:22):
When I was creating the run A show for this episode,
I was wondering, if de vou ever, it doesn't seem
like you suffer with perfectionism. It seems like there's something
else where you do things well, but it's not. There's
no pressure to do things well. It's just kind of
like an expectation from yourself. So I wanted to talk
about I guess you're gonna have to talk to the

(25:43):
rest of us about how perfectionism ruins our lives.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
It does it seriously?

Speaker 4 (25:48):
Does like I hope to God y'all stop doing that.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
Start with our oldest.

Speaker 4 (25:55):
Jackson because Jackson Jackson is just.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
Like and I think the hardest part part of dealing
with someone who suffers from this pursuit of perfect perfection
is the the anxiety that they build up and the
performance anxiety, the nerves. Like, that's something we noticed with Jackson.
It's like him wanting to do something perfect. There's like
a frustration that comes with it.

Speaker 5 (26:16):
There's this.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
You know, it's almost as if he talks himself out
of it sometimes. And that's that's what we have to
talk came back off the legend. It's like, no, you
can do this because you've prepared for it. That's why
we always tell them that the pursuit of perfection.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Practice practice, practice is not the pursuit of perfection, right,
practice is the pursuit of the process.

Speaker 4 (26:38):
Right exactly.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
And that's what we try to instill in the voids
time and and time and again, especially to vour working
with them closely on sports for example, you know, trying
to get over anxiety.

Speaker 1 (26:49):
But I changed it because remember it used to be
now a practice, practice used to it used to be
practice makes perfect, yeah, right, right, practice was perfect. So
I used to say that, right, and then Jackson want
to be perfect perfect. Analogy is to I no longer
preach perfection. It didn't start with Jackson, started with myself. Right,
Jackson is playing basketball. First half of the year, Jackson
is averaging like maybe eleven points. He's only shooting maybe

(27:11):
four shots a game, so once a quarter he shoots right,
but he's also scoring at a high percentage. I said, Jackson,
why are you not shooting? I'm afraid I won't miss
I'm afraid I won't make it. So then you shoot
another one. Yeah, but if I missed, then Oh, so
you think missing any shot in the game means that
you're not perfect.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
So you don't want to shoot.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, but what if your team could use those points? Jackson?
I said, Yeah, what if you make half and miss half,
but you still score twenty points? He said, he if
I scored twenty and our team's gonna win. Yeah, but
you had to miss half of them to make the twenty.
And that's when he got it and he realized, like, oh,

(27:52):
and he said to me, so I miss all the
shots you don't take Exactly, you don't take a shot
because you fear you won't be perfect. You've missed it.
So you've automatically disqualified yourself from the opportunity to even
be great because you avoided it out of the fear
of perfection. And he really got that out and then

(28:13):
he was just like, oh, so I don't got to
be perfect. No, the greatest shoot of all time shoots
at forty percent from three. That's Steph Curry. The best
batters in baseball all shoot between two hundred and three hundred,
which means that they miss way more than they make,
and those are the greats. And that's when he realized, like, oh,
so I don't got to chase perfection. Yeah, because perfection
is untainable. Nobody can always be perfect all the time.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Then you had Cairo who runs the two hundred, and
Cairo has figured out in his mind the perfect way
to pursue this perfect race. So Cairo running the two hundred.
They just started running track this year. Right at the
last track me, we were at Kiro's running the two hundred.
So Cairo gets out the gate, he's running, hits the curve,
He's at the back of the pack. So me and

(28:56):
DeValve were like, damn, he's at the back of the pack.
And then as he hits the straightaway, Cairo literally like
sonic blows past like five people everybody. They finished first
and right. So when he came off, he kind of
smirked and he was just like them, like is that
your strategy? Like you want to just coast around the

(29:16):
corner and then like turn it up and he's just like,
kind of yet, because I know I could once I
like hit the straightaway and then Deval was like, but bro,
if you were like hitting it the entire time, your
time would be faster, because in track it's ultimately you
against the time and you against your your last time
trying to get that personal record. But it's funny to
see how people's brains work differently, and we're noticing that
with our kids. The way they try to pursue what

(29:39):
their idea is of perfect is it's always with a
different process, Right.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
I think your point is super valid because he won
his heat, but since he won his heat, he thought
he's gonna get a medal. He didn't get a medal,
and he didn't get a medal because he finished only
top twenty in times. Now, in his mind, he ran
his race perfectly to win his heat heat, but he
still didn't get what he wanted. And that's the whole thing.

(30:04):
Perfect to you isn't perfect to everybody, which means perfect
to everybody isn't perfect to you. So if you're facing
your life or living your life saying my life isn't
perfect to everyone else. It doesn't have to be because
even when you think you're doing stuff perfect, it's not
perfect for everyone.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
You know, what do you guys think is the standard
of perfection for something in your life? For example, Triple,
you want to be perfect at something? What has set
that wants to What do you look at and say
this would be perfect for me?

Speaker 1 (30:33):
She wants to be a performer Shriple love stand up.
She wants to be a writer, show someone's to act.
So what would be the perfect performance?

Speaker 2 (30:41):
What would be like the perfect or the perfect avenue
to get to that for you that you feel like
you have not been able to unfold yet, the.

Speaker 5 (30:49):
Perfect avenue to get there? I don't think that I have.

Speaker 7 (30:54):
And this is probably the problem that comes with this
question of perfectionism, is it self doubt Because I think
the avenues the doors have been open. I've done almost
everything that I could think to do to get there.
But a lot of times when I get there, I'm like,
oh my god, you know what I'm saying. I get scared,

(31:14):
I get nervous, I fuck up somehow, or I moved
to the next thing, or I think I'm not good
enough to be here, and I don't keep going. Yeah,
I think that that has been my biggest hang up
in the last couple of years. It's just being like,
I'm not funny enough to be a comic.

Speaker 5 (31:33):
I can't do this. And then I just had this
situation happen.

Speaker 7 (31:38):
I made a video Mimicky and Gail King, and I
made the video and then I was like, I'm not
about to post this and I'm fucking funny.

Speaker 5 (31:46):
And then I was like, here I go talking myself
out of it. So I just posted it anyway. I'm like,
if it flops, it flops whatever, I don't care. And
it didn't flop.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
It like it did very well.

Speaker 4 (31:58):
Yeah, and I was surprised. Yeah, it was funny. I
was so.

Speaker 7 (32:03):
I was extremely surprised, and I was like, okay, Like,
so my best friend, who's the smartest, most ambitious person
that I've that I know. She finished her NBA this
year and she.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
Smarter than me.

Speaker 7 (32:19):
She chosen to give the commencement speech, and in the speech,
she talks about Steph Curry's three point average and his
mindset is that the next one is going on no
matter like how you do. The point is to get
better every time. Absolutely the point is to keep trying
so that the next one does go in so that
you do have a better shot if you keep going.

(32:39):
So I'll be trying to I'll be trying to keep
that in mind. But I think for me, I think
getting on stage, being able to perform. If I get
on stage, if I do the thing, I know that
I'm gonna do it well, So really it doesn't matter
how I get there.

Speaker 5 (32:53):
I think it's just getting there mentally.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
Battle for you.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
I think that people struggle with not being accepted right,
like for example, Tripple's thing was I created this, I
think it's funny, but what if it flops? That whole
what if it flops is also another word for what
if people don't think?

Speaker 2 (33:13):
It's other people to validate exactly it.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
Especially as a creative, you're constantly seeking validation to know
that your creativity is going to be appreciated. And it's
very hard if you're an artist. If people don't appreciate
your work, it doesn't matter if it's paint, music, film, TV.
If people don't appreciate your work, you start to feel worthless.
So I understand that from artists, for example, like Josh
and Matt, they both do pictures and video.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
Right.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
I remember saying to Josh, like, y'all say, yo, Josh,
you got mad pictures that you don't ever post, and
he'd be like, nah, it's just it's not it's not
And I'm like, you see, you get about to give
me a whole bunch of reasons why this picture isn't perfect.
But a picture doesn't have to be perfect to be
posted and hit. For example, remember when you said, I'm
gonna tell y'all how I just be throwing against the wall, Like, Okay,

(34:03):
I think this is funny. I'm gonna try I throw
it against the wall. It don't hit. I use that
opportunity to see why it don't hit, to learn and
understand from it. There's never no loss. A video that
don't hit, a picture that don't hit, a joke that
don't hit, is always just more information for you to
get better at what you do. It's not an end,

(34:23):
and that's what happens. People think if a video don't hit,
a picture don't hit, it's the end. It's still always
the beginning. Even when you have a picture of video
that hits, now you've got the information of why it hits.
It's just the beginning, because now you have to duplicate
that success.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
That's essentially what we did with social media, essentially devals strategy.
He said, We're gonna just keep posting, and if it
didn't hit, that's fine, because all it takes is for
one thing to hit, and then you have a catalog
of things for people to go and look at. That
happens all the time. I may see something come across
my page if I'm aimlessly scrolling one day, and I'm like, oh,
this is funny, and then I'll go to that person's

(34:58):
page and then look for other funny videos that caught
my attention or caught other people's attention, and before you
know it, you might have gained somebody who follows you
now because they see something there. But you also have
to understand that you're not for everybody you know who creative.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Barack Obama his first New York Times best selling book.

Speaker 4 (35:17):
People think it was his book.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Obama his first New York Times best selling book was
when he was running for president. I think he went
up to go speak in Chicago. Oprah was there, and
Oprah pretty much was just like, guys, this.

Speaker 7 (35:29):
Is going to be at the Democratic National Convention yeah.
I remember we watched it in high school and we
were like, dad, he's going to be the president.

Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yes, right now. He had two books that he had
already published before that when he was in college, and
the book sold like seven copies. He said he got
a phone call randomly from the publisher and which just like, hey,
we have a check for you, and he's like what
he was just like, you know, your books were flying
off the sales ever since the Democratic National Convention. Then
a couple of weeks later, both of his books became

(35:56):
New York Times bestsellers, but those were years after he
first released him So when he first released them, they
were considered flops. Nobody cared. Then two years go by,
people listen to him speak and then read his book
and go back like the catalog you talked about, and realize,
this man is brilliant. That's why you can't knock yourself
if something doesn't happen the way you want it to

(36:16):
happen in that time.

Speaker 4 (36:18):
Sometimes it takes people to catch on. And this is
not for Nobody's.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Chris Brown, who is in Everybody did the song Residuals,
But I said, so, when did that song come out?

Speaker 2 (36:31):
Years ago?

Speaker 1 (36:32):
And it just started popping last year.

Speaker 4 (36:34):
Yeah, like two, it came out.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Two or three.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
No, it came out like maybe five or six years.
Are started popping like two years ago.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
The fact it was like how does this song pop down?
When it came out, And when it first came out,
nobody was checking for it, so people consider it a flop.
To me, there's no such thing as a flop. It's
just people have to start paying attention. The only way
you get them to pay attention is consistency. But you
can't be consistent if you're a perfectionist and keep stopping
because you don't think what you're putting out is perfect

(37:04):
and that's ultimately the thing.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
Or if you're a procrastinator like I tended to be
for a large portion of my life and probably still
to this day. And I realized, like I said in
my sound by earlier, that I will sometimes mask putting
things off as me trying to find the perfect way
to do it when I'm realizing that I'm just really
not doing the work.

Speaker 5 (37:23):
Well, you know what I was reading on I think
it was like psych Central that.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Come on doctor mell me.

Speaker 7 (37:36):
As a neuro divergent person, myself I'm always trying to
figure out what the hell is going on?

Speaker 5 (37:43):
Get crossed? They said.

Speaker 7 (37:45):
Procrastination can be a personality trait for a perfectionist. It's
known as maladaptive perfectionism. So usually a perfectionist will try
to get things right, and they'll work on something until
they get it right because they have a fear of
judgment sometimes and procrastination is the same thing, but maladaptive

(38:06):
means that you are unable to do the thing you're
supposed to be doing because the perfectionism makes you shut down.
So perfectionists might have a you know, take more time,
but they get it done, whereas if your perfectionism is maladaptive,
you're not getting it.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
You never get it.

Speaker 5 (38:22):
That's me.

Speaker 2 (38:25):
I don't even want to repeat the word because I
feel like when you repeat the word, it like saying
that's what it is. Yeah, I don't want to I
don't want to say that that's what I am, what
I'm worting, But you.

Speaker 7 (38:32):
Know what I think, sometimes it is helpful to lean
on something like perfectionism, because perfectionism will take you to
the root of what it is that's hurting you or
what it is that's causing it, Like fear.

Speaker 5 (38:45):
Do you fear judgment? Is it something that happened to
your childhood? You can go back and.

Speaker 7 (38:50):
Understand why you're a perfectionist and then you can heal
that thing. But if you say something like, oh, I'm
a procrastinator, that's kind of negatively talking about yourself, like
I just am lazy.

Speaker 5 (39:00):
I'm just not able to do the thing.

Speaker 7 (39:02):
You are able, but there's something blocking you, so so
labeling it as perfectionism might help you to get to
the root of the block.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
Okay, Devil's Advocate. I do think some people be full
of shit. You know, people going on job interviewers right right,
and what's the first thing they say, tell me something
about yourself. I'm a perfection I'm a perfectionist. So that's
the first thing people say. And it's like almost like
when people say, you know, I have anxiety. It's almost
like it's a word that's so overused now that people

(39:31):
just throw it into their vernacular that seem like they're
self aware, when realistically they just scared. And a lot
of times I feel like this whole perfectionism thing like
you just described is a byproduct of something that's really
going on, and they use the perfectionist thing. So I
agree with that, Like, I didn't think about it until
you said it like that. How many people just say
I'm a perfectionist because it sounds better than saying I'm

(39:51):
scared as a motherfucker that this ain't gonna work.

Speaker 4 (39:53):
Yeah, I'm not.

Speaker 5 (39:54):
I don't consider myself a perfectionist. I am scared as fuck.

Speaker 7 (39:58):
I have debilitating anxiety whenever I think about, especially things
that are visible, Like I can go on stage, you know,
and do this, do the thing, but like posting something
on the internet, I'd be like, oh, I'll be ready.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
To throw which is so crazy because most people their
biggest for the number one fear except for people that's
like public speaking or being in front of a crowd
or an audience and speaking, which is something that I
feel like most of us can do pretty naturally in
this room, but.

Speaker 4 (40:21):
Public speaking, but I know Matt wouldn't. But I'm like,
I don't think it's the act of doing it is
not the issue. It's the result of it, Like how
is this going to be received after? For me personally,
Like how is it going to be received after? So
I have no problem doing the work, I have no
problem taking the photos. I have no problem making a video.
It's like afterwards and part of part my thing is

(40:44):
what I'm conscious of is well it doesn't look like
this person's especially when I'm in a foreign space.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
You think you want validation.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
It could be a form of validation, but it could
be a form of me trying to validate my own self.

Speaker 1 (40:59):
I get that.

Speaker 4 (41:00):
People, Then you want you want to valiance. I want
to feel like it's okay, right, Like I want to
say like, nah, this measures up. But the thing, like
we talked about with Jack's like, bro, you you got
to get more reps in like you got to be
able to do way more than you're doing right now.
This is me talking to myself. I gotta do way
more I'm doing right now, So like, stop thinking about
how this will be received and just do something right.

(41:23):
But like for me, it's it's perfectionism. It's almost like
you just keep putting roadblocks in your own way. That's
what I feel like you keep putting for me as
a personally like desperately wants to be a film director. Right,
It's it first started off like all right, I'm gonna
go to take classes. Then when you get these classes,
you're like, all right, this is not that easy, like okay,

(41:45):
I need something to make right. And then you're like, okay,
let me start writing. And then you start writing and
it's just like this is not good, like I'm not
writing good enough. So I'm like, now you're wasting time
trying to figure out how to write something when that's
not your goal. The goal is not trying to write.
Your goal is try to make something. So it's like
constantly putting things that you gotta hurdle over trip over

(42:07):
most of the time, and then try to like once
you trip, you gotta find another hurdle, and you're putting
those things in front of you.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
This is why I feel like people need to start
understanding the process of being great. People think the process
of being great just happens like someone just woke up
and was great and then they started practicing and they
made all the shots. That's not how greatness works. This
is literally how greatness works. I had never returned the
punt in college. That's not what I did.

Speaker 4 (42:31):
A punt.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
For people who don't know, is when the punter kicks
the ball off, the shit goes like ten stories even
higher than that in the air. It's a little tiny skittle.
You got to catch it in front of all the
people in the arena, plus eleven dudes trying to smack
you in the mouth. Right I'm in practice, Coach says,
you have to catch fifty punts after practice if I'm
going to even allow you to catch a punt in

(42:52):
the game. So the whole week of practice goes through,
and me and Chuck Priefer we go back after practice
and they kick these punts and through every aspect of
the punt. He made it more difficult. He started dumping
the balls and water. He started putting the stuff under
my arms to make it difficult. Out of the fifty
punts the first day, I only caught like ten. And
this is what I think people need to understand about

(43:12):
the process. I caught the ten out of the fifty,
which is like twenty percent of what it is. But
he was excited about me going through the journey of
constantly trying to catch it.

Speaker 4 (43:22):
Right after doing it for three weeks.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
I was starting to catch fifty out of fifty. But
the problem is people don't ever want to go through
that aspect of being terrible at something while they learn.
And I was freaking horrible the same way I was
horrible at making videos, I was horrible at color commentary,
I was horrible at football, I was horrible at basketball,
I was horrible at acting, I was horrible at writing.

(43:46):
When you start anything, you just be horrible. And we
all have to get used to the fact that you're
going to be horrible until you take the necessary time
to be miserable for a certain a lot of time
be great. And if people start realizing that, they'll do
like I do and start throwing shit against the wall. Hey,
the last time I tried to catch this point, the

(44:08):
shit hit me right in my face.

Speaker 4 (44:09):
Mass bounced up. I could at that point been like, I'm.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Not doing this. Look at how Chuck Chuck Prifa was
laughing laughing at first, you saying you and be an
NFL punp returner, send your black ass back to Brooklyn.
This is an old white man telling me this. I
had to ignore all that and let them shits bounce
off my face forty out of fifty times until I
returned my first punt in the NFL. And what happened.
I almost return that shit for a touchdown. Go back

(44:35):
to two thousand and six, Deval's first punt return against
the Chicago Bears. I returned that bitch on the two.
You ain't got that shit back to the fifty and
then that was my first punt return, and everybody kept
saying that that point, Oh, you're gonna be great. He's
a natural. This is first punt return. Yeah, y'all didn't
know that for three weeks. Them shits was bouncing off
my face mass in practice.

Speaker 2 (44:54):
And if I know anything about Daval the chip he
had on his shoulder after Teller, Everyone tells if you
want Devalu to do something, telling me.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Can't tell me I can't do it, tell me can't
do it.

Speaker 2 (45:03):
Fact, I can relate to you in the process of it. So, Josh,
when you were talking about having to write and then
having to do this, and you look at them as
hurdles to try to get you to be a director, right,
I instantly thought about, that's probably just a part of
the process to get you to understand the scope of
work of what a director does.

Speaker 4 (45:20):
Right.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
And I think about my recent project that I did
over at TPS, Divorced SSS make sure I'll watch on
b ET plus. Preparing for this particular role, I was
enjoying the process of it, because I've always wanted this
for myself, right, went to school for it, all of that.
So I had an opportunity to do the acting now
in a very prestigious role. When I say prestigious series

(45:46):
regularly everyone on the show, right and baby, let me
tell you when perfectionism, the pursuit of that, the pressure,
the process, all of the things were starting to fall
on my lap and imposter syndrome wanted to sneak in
every single time that I sat down and read those

(46:07):
scripts and had to prepare. So to your point, the
process of preparing for filming and the hours that I
put in to my scripts with my coach, developing Geneva
in the gym, changing my diet, like everything that I
did to prepare for that, which Devou thought I was

(46:29):
obsessive over. At some point he thought I was doing
the most. He was like, it shouldn't require all of this.

Speaker 4 (46:35):
I legit was like, are you okay? Like I was like,
this is not not realizing this was her first opportunity
to do that. I'm like, I do this.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, You're nine seasons in and fourth two shows, four
seasons in. This is my first time in the like
imagine me getting this opportunity and fumbling it as you
were just thinking of oportunities as Devou's wife missed the TPS.
You know what I'm saying. So I had all of
these things on my shoulders, and every time something crap
up to my this is how I knew that perfectionism

(47:02):
and procrastination, those are things that I throw in my way.
It's the process of preparing for it. So I prepared
so much, and I was so obsessive and I was
so drastic with it that when I got to set
for those two weeks, I was Jeneva. I was just
her like I wasn't Kadeen. I was so prepared, and

(47:24):
that just made me realize, like all the shit I've
told myself over the years, the self doubt, the imposter syndrome,
all of that, that's just the enemy. That's just the depth,
that's whoever you want to say, it is creeping in.
Because I was, I was capable. I was capable of
the whole time. All I had to do was the work,
and I think most people just shy away from committing
to doing the work and doing the process.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
There's no way you can avoid you can't cheat that, Yeah,
you can't avoid the fear or the nerves that come
with something new if you don't practice it. You have
to like, this is what I told Jackson said, if
you really Because Jackson was like that, I'd be nervous
before every game. A stomach be bothered me, and he's
just like, I don't know how to shake it. I
was like, well, the only reason why you're nervous is
because the unknown. You don't know what's gonna happen in

(48:08):
this game, do you. He's like, nah, I say, you
know why you don't know what's gonna happen in this game.
When you get in practice, you don't spend time in
practice throwing shit against the wall going full speed trying
to just func shit up to see what it is.
You spend time in practice trying to be perfect so
that coach can remember you perfect.

Speaker 4 (48:24):
Right.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
He was just like, yeah, I said, that's the wrong way.
The only reason why I knew I wasn't going to
drop the ball in the game is because I had
dropped it so many times in practice that by the
time the ball came to me, I had already knew
what was going to happen. And he was just like,
and I watched Kate do the same thing. Kate was
so nervous about the emotional scenes, right, and this is
important for acting. People always say, how you able to

(48:46):
just cry on Q? How are you able to be angry?

Speaker 7 (48:49):
How you?

Speaker 1 (48:50):
And I said, well, first thing is you don't just
cry on Q. That's not what happens. You become the person.
How do you become the person? You constantly rep the
emotions the person goes through. When you're going through the
lines before you get to the screen, like before it
even gets that you're going to rehearsal, you're going through
is you become this person? Then when you get there,
when they say action, there is no thinking about Now

(49:12):
I have to cry. Your person says the line, You
say the line back. Y'all live in the space, and
when you go watch, it's, oh shit, he cried. It's
the same thing with photography. Writing a joke, there's never
gonna be a I wrote this perfect joke on the
spot trouble It's gonna be I worked it. I wrote
this joke. I practiced this joke in front of a

(49:35):
bunch of audiences thousands of times before the Netflix special came.
So I knew the joke was gonna hit, and that's
what people miss. You know what I'm saying. At first,
It's just like I want my joke to hit on Netflix.
What did your joke flop and the laugh factory a
thousand times? Because if it flopped at the lave factory,
then you'll know how to adjust it to make it flip.

(49:56):
And that's what I want people to like take away
when they listen to this. Your afectionism is probably coming
from your lack of approach to consistently doing the thing
you say you love thousands of times to become great
at it.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
But I'll push back on that because he says I'm
a perfectionist. My wife probably said the same thing. I
wholeheartedly disagree because I go through the process. I'll take
pictures every day knowing nobody gonna see this picture, but
I know that pictures for me because I need to
put up shots.

Speaker 1 (50:21):
So what do you what do you think?

Speaker 4 (50:22):
It's not your issue? What's my issuer? I think you
also create herders for yourself as well. Because we talked
about you doing the gallery, and we talked about and
you talked about all the things that you had to
do to get to the place where not even a gallery.
You talked about selling your prints online, and you talked about, well,

(50:43):
I don't I don't know how to do the site
gotta be like this, The site gotta do that. You
gotta do the site got to do a damn thing.
All that's for me, person for you. Correct, And that's
the reason why you currently are not selling these prints.
By the way, you got this point, not that you
has phenomenal photos over that we know that go back
to so we understand no exactly right, though Matthew has

(51:05):
phenomenal photos, photos that would look amazing in your home.
Hell yeah, Matthew wants to sell you those photos. The
reason why he hasn't sold those photos is because he
keeps putting those hurdles in his own way. That's the
reason why that's not in this house right now on
the walls, because you're putting those hurtles in a way.

(51:27):
So I think taking a pictures point, you got a point,
because I agree with the point.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Why why some point you created the website yet for
people to buy them photos.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
His thing is he's not a perfectionist because he's still
doing the reps, he's still taking a picture because.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
I'm still in the process of building the project to
be what I wanted to be before I even put
it out to people.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
That's my point, and that's and that's what he's that's perfectionism.

Speaker 4 (51:50):
It hasn't I don't.

Speaker 3 (51:51):
Even know that is even to a point of imperfect
I just don't want to incomplete project out there where
you go, there you see his life.

Speaker 4 (51:58):
That's that's the thing. That's that's the things it has
to get, and that's the thing. It has to get
to a certain point until I feel it's ready for
public assumption.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
And I don't care about the public, so I'm ready
to put it out. That's when I don't put it out.

Speaker 4 (52:12):
I can put it out.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
I don't care if the public don't like it or
not if I'm not comfortable with it, because there's many
times where and I'll go back to and I'm not
comfortable with how it looks for me as an artist.

Speaker 4 (52:22):
That's what I want to go and change it. I'd
rather not put it out in a rush way. I
rather wait as a as a as a fellow artist.
I completely understand what you mean, right, you want to
be comfortable, to be able to stand on this product.
Once it's out that there's like, I have my hands off.
It's going to do what it does. If it does well,
does well, it doesn't. I put my all into it.

(52:42):
But there's a school of thought that says, put it
out there regardless right now, because you don't know you're
I would say, looking at it, you have a vision
of how this thing is supposed to look once it's done.
The reality is, you know, making movies, right, you know,
doing TV. Sometimes you get the script, it's one way
you feel it, it's one way. The finished product is

(53:05):
a completely different way, completely right. So I say that
because I think you should just start with the process.
This is your first time.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
We second because I put it out before, people didn't
receive it, and I left it out there and I
took it down because I wanted to go and revamp
it now.

Speaker 4 (53:24):
That's why it's not back up.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
My print shop has been up.

Speaker 4 (53:27):
Okay, can I just jump in?

Speaker 1 (53:29):
I want to point out something with perfection.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
But I'm here, I'm not being defended.

Speaker 4 (53:33):
I want to I want to point out something with perfection.

Speaker 1 (53:36):
I pointed out to Josh that he does that, and
Josh's first response was, no, I don't I don't care
what other people think. I didn't put it out because
I wasn't happy about it. That's what Josh said. Josh
just said to you the same thing I said to him.
Your first response is, it ain't about other people. I
don't like the way it's out. That's automatically typically a
response for someone who's using perfectionism as a defense to

(53:58):
not put their product out. Y'all both just did the
same thing, And while Josh was trying to help you
do it, he was doing the same thing because he
said the same response to me. I said, Josh, you
tend to wait to see if other people will receive it.
He said, no, I don't care how other people receive it.
It's me, the same way you just saying it's me.
That's what perfectionism is. You're using yourself as the reason

(54:20):
why you can't put your thing out. And the reason
why you can stand on that is because can't no
one else tell you nothing about you. So that's the
ultimate defense. It ain't about other people, it's about me.
So when people say it's about us, about you, now,
you're like, I win, that's why I put it out. No,
that's why you need to put it out because, like
I said before, if people didn't buy it, use that
as a lesson.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
Let me see why.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Let me not not put it out again. Let me
see why and what can I adjust correct?

Speaker 3 (54:46):
And that was the reason why I took it. I'm like,
I see how this looks. I didn't like it in
the first place, but I tried it. Let me take it,
let me go back, let me revamp this. I feel
like now when it's out, y'all gonna love it because
I revamped it. And then if y'all don't cool, it's
gonna be out there. I don't feel like it's out
of place now where I need to take it down.
I feel like I've gotten the project to a place
where I could keep adding to it. At this point

(55:06):
before it looked like an incomplete message to me as
an artist?

Speaker 1 (55:09):
What's the time on you?

Speaker 3 (55:12):
By the time this is out, y'all, y'all would be
able to buy prints, I guarantee.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
So do you have photos in your possession right now
that you feel like this is the perfect photo. I've
done all that I needed to do in terms of
edit whatnot, and I can put this on I said, okay,
put them up, absolutely and it's.

Speaker 4 (55:26):
Not the pictures.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
I don't think the issues the pictures because I went
to I seen the pictures. It's not the picture who
I said, I've seen. Like I said the same thing
to him at his wedding. Wedding, I said, and this
is the truth, man, you know you my man, I said, Yo,
what are these pictures that he's like, I'm working on
And that was your wedding was a year ago, and
he was like, I'm working on the gallery. It's been
over a year now. So now it's like at some point,

(55:50):
just like I did with Trouble, you got to stop
working on it.

Speaker 3 (55:53):
Yeah, I'll admit to that, you know, because you you
definitely said that. You said the same thing when I said,
and maybe it's just me again. But when you say gallery,
I push back because I'm thinking about public space where
I could bring people in. Y'all can see it on
the wall. The print shop is an issue of my
own that should have been up a long time ago,
and I need to get that fixed.

Speaker 4 (56:13):
The gallery.

Speaker 3 (56:13):
On another hand, I also don't want to waste the
money to put out it to do a gallery and
five people show up. Personally, I feel like I'm yeah,
monetarily and don't make sense.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
I don't bro I don't have camps where around the
whole city where three people came up to six camps.
Three kids came to six camps around the city. Remember
we was doing them camps and them three kids was family.
It was my cousin God, another one of my uncles,
one of my coaches, nephews.

Speaker 4 (56:45):
It shit hurts and I never have to do what
you came. I think I think that that we should
talk about, uh that depending on the position you're in financially,
uh or any any space in your life that also
plays a uh the place of a role in how

(57:06):
you approach things. And your back is against the absolute
against the wall like yours was probably at that time, Yeah,
at that time with the cams in my back, it's
more it's probably different from that at this point against right.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
He's trying to you absolutely like that.

Speaker 4 (57:23):
And that and that talks to your hustle. For me personally,
I know my back is in against the wall as
much as it could it could be. That's why the
firing on my ass is not what it is.

Speaker 2 (57:36):
Right.

Speaker 4 (57:36):
Like when you have when you have external forces forcing
you or pushing you in this direction because you need it, right,
that is something that you can't deny that that pushes
people out of perfectionism perfectionism and into a space of necessity.

Speaker 1 (57:51):
So check this out. So what you pretty much said
is that socio economic uh details can pretty much hunt.
Let you know, like, because if you comfortable, you're like,
I don't got a four stage year. But if you
back against the wall, that's a good point. Think of
the most comfortable people won't take chance.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Yeah, think about success stories though. Whenever you see people
at the top of whatever their industry is, usually they
have a struggle story behind it. Where I was living
out my car, I was working five jobs, I was
and the site out of that need for you know,
moving forward in life, your back's against the wall. You're
doing everything that you have to do the hustle, and

(58:30):
eventually you make it there because the fire is under
your tail.

Speaker 4 (58:34):
So this what I think, This what I think.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Y'all should do. Everybody over there, just give me all
y'all money. So y'all could be broke. So it's not
that y'all broke. Y'all could be struggling and dreams. Maybe
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (58:44):
Whatever money you get for everybody in the next six weeks,
I will say this, you have to look at your circumstances.
I had this like crazy eye opening, uh epiphany.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
This sounds moment of is it?

Speaker 4 (58:59):
It does two nights ago ahead and I'm not giving
the story, but I'll keep it. But I had this
epiphany about my circumstance and what I want to do,
and it was just like you almost have to put
in perspective. I'm not a millionaire, like I am not
a millionaire, so logistically, like for me personally, my back

(59:20):
is against the wall. Right, I can't take a month
off if I want to. I want to get to
the point where I could say, lie, I want to
take the summer off. I don't want to do nothing
for Junior July, and I want to go. I want
to live in Jamaica for two whole months. I want that, right,
And because I want that, I have to be able
to make myself uncomfortable about what I'm doing right now.

(59:40):
And I think that's that's where I'm at. It's like
the uncomfortability isn't there enough to push you? And that's
where that that that perfectionism is sort of like a crutch.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
You're just good though, because you sound like a like
a coach now, because coaches will tell you that, you
know what your problem is, you too fucking comfortable on
this team. You need to be uncomfortable. Then they bene you,
you understand.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
You like like a mind game. Essentially, it is a
mind game.

Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
Most people people comfortable bro even when they broke. They
just comfortable, and that's why they can't do other things.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
She just blew like that. Shit really just blew my
mind thinking about it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:16):
Now, I got to pay business.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
We do, gotta pay man, paypills, pay bills, come back all.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Right, all right, we gonna face some bills and come back. Okay,
as we talked about cutting everybody's salary, let's go face
some buildings. We'll do the listener letter, but will hold
your thoughts. We'll round it out in the moment of truth.

Speaker 4 (01:00:31):
Deal.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
All right, and we're back. We're gonna dive into listening letters.
As I hear the kiddos her home from school now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
About to come down at some point, somebody won't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Come to somebody gonna come down here. But let's jump
into it. Hey, de Valen Kadeen, I'm a new listener
for about a month and I love it. Here congratulates welcome.
I'm a single, twenty six year old who has no
trust in men, but I do wish to change that.
In my childhood I had an inconsistent father with a
mother who handled everything. It taught me to be very
independent and not to rely on anyone. During college, I

(01:01:14):
experienced sexual trauma with strengthened my mistrust. I do want
to eventually have a healthy black love relationship, even though
I never grew up seeing a strong black male figure
in my life. Here are my questions, Deval, What do
I do to place trust in men? So when mister
Wright comes along, I'm prepared. Kadeen, how did you learn
to lose control for Devo to handle things in times

(01:01:36):
where you weren't confident? Ps, Devo, I love your character
owned sisters.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
Thank you so much. First and foremost, I understand why
she doesn't trust men. You had a father who was inconsistent,
like most people get their idea of what the opposing
sex supposed to be by being a parent. So when
you look at our demographic of people and you think
about mass incarceration and the things they've done to our
people over the past fifty years, a lot of young

(01:02:02):
people men and women grew up without their father, especially
if they grew up in an urban area. So to
hearing young black women or black men say they don't
have a trusting male figure in their life has become
something I'm used to. So hearing this story. Remember my
track girls from Brooklyn, most of them were all single moms.
What came from single moms? But I understand where her

(01:02:23):
trust lack of trust comes from. Then the sexual trauma. Right,
she asked, what you did to be able to let
me in? I think she's going to have to do
the work to heal herself and find a way to
become more vulnerable and open. Two men, because every man
isn't going to be the person who assaulted you or
your father, right, but there still are men out there

(01:02:44):
who are just like them. So you have to learn
how to use discernment and see those red flags from
far away. For example, most people who go through stuff
like that are then attracted to that type because that's
all lace. And I just want her to hear my
voice and say, listen, all men are not like that.
They're not, so you don't have to accept that. And
if you ever get to a position where you feel like, well,

(01:03:04):
my dad was like this and this guy, So I
guess that's how all men are. Fuck, know, sweetheart, all
men are not like that. All men are not abusers,
all men are not inconsistent. So first work on yourself
to be able to heal for yourself. Don't try to
heal for a man that you think you might meet
in the future. Heal for yourself so you feel better
about who you are. And then once you feel healed,

(01:03:24):
use that discernment and pick the right type of man
who's gonna love you the where you want to be loved.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
And then when you find that person. So to answer
your question, for me, earn is something. Trust is something
that's earned, it's not just something that happens. So with
deval and I, I was able to develop a trust
for him, or a level of trust for him because
he consistently and we talked about consistency with even perfection istion,
but perfectionism, but he consistently showed me and proved to

(01:03:49):
me not just through words but through his action, the
character of the kind of man that he is and
would be. So that made it easy for me to
then relinquish control to him in certain situations, or be
able to kind of soften. You know what my mom
instilled in me to be that independent woman who does
not need anyone for anything and can do on her own.
But he also simultaneously never stripped that from me either

(01:04:12):
and required that I become a dumbed down version of
myself because he was able to take care of him provide.
So that's something that you have to find within that person,
like Davao said, after bettering yourself and making sure that
you're in a position to receive that kind of person,
allowing them to earn the trust not through just words
but also action. So it was easy for me to

(01:04:32):
just let everything down, panties included with DeVos. I trusted
him in every which way, honey, and still do twenty
three years in. So it gets better this, So thank
you so much for listening. I'm happy you found us,
I'm happy that you love it here. You have a
couple of seasons to catch up on, but thank you

(01:04:53):
for joining the family over here and ever after. All right, y'all,
if you want to be featured as one of our
listener letters, be sure to email us at the Ellis
advice at gmail dot com.

Speaker 4 (01:05:03):
That's t h E E L l I S A
d v I C E at gmail dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
All right, moment of truth time today we're talking about perfectionism,
the pursuit of that triple. What you got for us,
it's your moment of truth. This.

Speaker 7 (01:05:19):
I didn't just learn this, but I was pleasantly reminded
to appreciate the process. I do have a thing where
I'm just I'm realizing that it is and it's important
for me to be liked.

Speaker 5 (01:05:33):
And I don't like not being good.

Speaker 4 (01:05:36):
At stuff, and so that's honest.

Speaker 7 (01:05:39):
I always have to remind myself that practice makes you better. Yes,
so I gotta appreciate the process do that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
And you're just such a great person regardless, like I
think that that's the that's like the number one thing
at the top of the list, especially for us. Daval
and I we like you're just such a pleasure, a
pleasure to be with. That that's why we want to
keep you around. I mean, the work portion of it
is work, you know, that's business, but you as a
person is really what helps to keep this together because

(01:06:06):
we want you in our space. So never doubt that.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
Can I jump in real quick, trible. You've never been
a perfect producer, Yeah, but you've always been a really
good person. Yes, and outside of like we joke a lot,
all of us joke a lot. This is not a joke, bro,
Nobody here has ever been perfect at their job. I
fucked up as a whole site. We we fuck up
all the time. I need you to just know that you,
because of the person you are, shines through more people

(01:06:31):
will give you opportunities than not. We chose to because
of your character. It had nothing to do with the work,
you know what I'm saying. We're all not perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Worktuff we can work on, you know, but you can't
replace the heart and the self and the energy of
a person.

Speaker 7 (01:06:48):
Now that's something I do know. I always joke that
I'm a personality higher every jobs.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Absolutely yeah, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
And your personality will prevent you from being a fire.
What you got for us, Josh, moment of truth and perfectionism.

Speaker 4 (01:07:11):
If you're listening and you sound like me, you really
need to put yourself in an uncomfortable space to get
to your next level, follow your dreams. All that. It's
not eloquent, it's tough, And I'm talking to myself, but
it's possible. I think men who are lesser than me

(01:07:34):
as far as talent, have done it. So there's no excuse.
So Josh, as a fact, I've seen in the photography space,
not even don't you talk about with me? I won't
cut you up. Barack Obama had had an interview where
he talked about that. He said, at every level that
he went to, you realized it was just like not

(01:07:54):
that smart. They weren't smart. People are not And I've
noticed that my so at every level that people aren't
as as as affluent or or talented as you as
you might think they would be. So Uh, anyone who
listening it sounds like me, stop putting barriers or hurdles
in your way. Run through, not lying through.

Speaker 2 (01:08:17):
Have a little audacity, y'all. Audacity goes a long way. Matt.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
What you got, Uh, prints are available, That's what I'm
talking about.

Speaker 4 (01:08:28):
If you want a license photos.

Speaker 1 (01:08:31):
That's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
Period. You gotta plug your ship.

Speaker 7 (01:08:34):
Yeah, everybody listening to let's make sure we put this
pressure on Matt like y'all have been putting. Go to
that pair asking me if I started a business a
long time ago it's mad.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
By time out, y'all go on the website follow that
page too, or you can send it to a company
who wants to license it so we can see it
around the globe.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
Then do it.

Speaker 4 (01:08:55):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:08:56):
I guess my moment you kind of got inspired from Josh's.
But there are folks out here that are doing way less,
but they have consistency, they have audacity, they have nerve,
they have the gall and they just be doing it
and doing it consistently enough. Do not cheat the process
because eventually, whatever it is, it's gonna hit. And that's

(01:09:19):
me speaking to myself as well too, because I saw
what locking into the process did for me recently, and
it has completely changed my life. And I'm in my
forties now, well at the top of the forties, in
my forties, like I won toe in it. I'm forty one,
but at this age, and I'm sure there's people who
listen that are younger. We have so many younger listeners
like don't wait, you can do it sooner and enjoy

(01:09:41):
it longer.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
I agree, be uncomfortable. Josh brought up a real good
point about all of the people we know who have
done great things had they back against the wall, and
a lot of times it's easier to take chances when
your back is against the wall. Yeah, so these are
all my parents who have kids. Stop making your kids
life so comfortable, Kadeen Deval Mimi Pop, Like you know

(01:10:03):
what I'm saying. Like we all as parents, this generation
of parents who have more than our parents, we got
to stop making our kids life so comfortable so that
they can take chances and be better than us.

Speaker 4 (01:10:14):
That's what Josh.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
You brought that to me because I didn't even think
about the financial component and the fact that all those
times I was hustling, I was freaking broke.

Speaker 2 (01:10:22):
Because you had nothing else happening at that moment. Yeah,
it was all on you. Was this your topic today? Josh?
Did you put this one in there?

Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:10:28):
So we've been putting topics in the ring and in
the group chat and stuff, and this was a good
one for today. So Josh episode today, I know I
need to hear from you. Okay, all right, y'all, be
sure to find us on Patreon if you're not part
of the gang yet, because we have the exclusive after
show there, as well as more Ellis Family content, BTS,

(01:10:52):
all that good stuff. That you want to see from us,
and you can find us on social media at Elvis
ever After. I am Kadeen, I am I am.

Speaker 3 (01:11:00):
Devaal matt Ellis Photo dot com, M A T T
E L L I S P h O t O
dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
There you go, give him a lower third, bab.

Speaker 4 (01:11:12):
You double click on my fix at Joshua Underscore Dwayne.

Speaker 5 (01:11:17):
You can find me at tribs The Cool, t R
I B b Z The Cool on Everything.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
And if you're listening on Apple podcasts, be sure to
wait reviews such ribe and get your copy of We
Over Me. It's still available now, y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
It's everywhere.

Speaker 4 (01:11:31):
Baby Dad ass.

Speaker 7 (01:11:36):
Cut Ellis ever After is an iHeartMedia podcast. It's hosted
by Kadeen and deval Ellis. It's produced by Triple Video,
Production by Joshua, Dwayne and Matthew Ellis, video editing by
Leshan rothe

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Sa