The Shame of Asking For Help

We all need a little help sometimes. The trouble comes when we don't ask for it. In this episode, the Ellises and the crew talk about how to ask for help when we need it. Dead Ass. Watch the full video version early on Patreon! Go to https://Patreon.com/EllisEverAfter to see the After Show and more exclusive Ellis Ever After video content. And find us on social media at @EllisEverAfterPodcast, @khadeeniam and @iamdevale, @joshua_dwain @_matt.ellis, @tribbzthecool. And if you’re listening on Apple podcasts, be sure to rate, review and subscribe.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
You are looking at a man, no matter how much
money I have or don't have in my pockets, if
I need help, I am going to ask, period.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
That is a fact. And as his wife, I'm gonna
ask too. We both go double down and ask for help.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Dead ass.

Speaker 3 (00:17):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
It all started with real talk, unfiltered, honest and straight
from the heart. Since then, we've gone on to become
Webby award winning podcasters in New York Times bestselling authors.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Dead Ass was more than a podcast for us. It
was about our growth, a place where we could be vulnerable.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
Be wraw or but most apportly be us.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
But as we know, life keeps evolving and so do we,
and through it all, one thing has never changed.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
This is a severafters.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Because we got a lot to talk about.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
All right, story time, So I'm gonna take y'all back
to twenty fourteen. I don't know if I told this
story specifically what I'm gonna tell it now. I'm training
at the gym. This is twenty fourteen. It's January. I'm
about to turn thirty. I say to K I'm like, yo,
I really want to focus on TV film like I've
been doing everything with the gym.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
We built it up and making good money.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
But I can't do what I really want to do
if I don't find a way to duplicate myself and
have more space and time to chase my dream. She
was like, what you want to do. I was like,
you know, I want to try to open up my
own gym. Because at the time we were paying crazy
rent to Aviator. They were also charging us per person
for each person that signed up for membership, and they

(01:30):
kept taking our field time away and they put us
in this back little corridor.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
They'd removed us from the gym and put.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
Us in this back little room that we made into
a gym. At this time, we had about three hundred clients.
So I went to Chase Bank because I was a
member of Chase Bank, and I was like, Yo, how
do I go about getting along right? And I'll never
forget And this is the Chase Bank on Rockaway, oh yeah,
and flat Land and the Rockaway Avenue L and I

(01:57):
went and how do I go about getting the bank?
And you know, they was like it was paperwork and
stuff like that. But she kind of smirked at me,
and she was just like like she was like you're not, like,
you're not gonna get it, and I was just like,
I have capital, you know, my business has solvency, and
she was just like so I was like, you know what,
freak this. I'm not even gonna go about this where
i'mna find my own way. Just so happens I meet

(02:18):
a man by the name of Marcel Vernon. Marcel Vernon
was senior VP at Cushman and Wake. He had just
left that job to do some other work somewhere else.
I think he was working in Boston, but his children
were training under Elite Prototype Athletics and he was like, yo,
I see what you're doing here.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Have you ever thought about scaling the business? And at
that moment, I said, this is a time for me
to ask for help. And the reason why I set
help is because he had capital. I didn't have capital.
Whenever you go to someone with a business idea, ultimately
you're asking would help with capital to help scale your business,
but you also have to give up part of your business,

(02:56):
which I was prepared for. And the reason why I'm
telling this story is because the help I got from
Marcel Vernon turned into me having autonomy over my time
because I got ownership in something that I never had
ownership before. Yes, I had to give up a small
percentage of my company, but the help was so valuable
because it came at a time where I had no
other options and I had to put my ego aside.

(03:17):
He also was able to show me how to grow
my business, not just give me the capital. And if
I had put my ego ahead of what I really needed,
I would still be sitting there trying to figure it out.
And on this episode, I want to talk to people
about how to ask for help and what to expect
when someone helps you, what to give back, because it's
not just the money that.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
You got right now, break it down, baby.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
So I noticed karaoke don't go with anything, but it
would make sense afterwards past.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Did I go da music? Let me jump fund? Where
did that come from?

Speaker 4 (04:07):
It was random?

Speaker 1 (04:08):
It was it was.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
It was random that I was like, I got the
karaoke song for today.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I was like, okay, And I thought about this since
last night. And part of the reason why I went
with this song is because when you pass the Dutch,
people don't understand if you're not a part of smoke culture. Right,
you're helping someone, right, someone is sitting there waiting. They
don't have nothing.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
Waiting to get lifted. Yes, that's what we're waiting.

Speaker 2 (04:29):
When you passed the Dutch, there was often like a circuit.
You passed them, you have time to enjoy your process.
But the Dutch often does what.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
Come back comes back.

Speaker 3 (04:39):
It's like a susu Yes, right, understand, Pardner, when your partner.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Draw community economics of the marriage, juanna right, all right,
But that's why I chose the song, because it's just
let it keep circulating, just like the finances. I'm big
on group economics, past the Dutch, past the Green. Let's
keep circulating it so we all can win.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
We only we can do that within our community. That's
when I'm talking about our black dollar in the black circle.
You know what my my carro was gonna be. It's
a little more wholesome. Lean on me strong, I help you, kyon.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
I ain't gonna lie. You had those pants on, so
those pants reminded me.

Speaker 5 (05:24):
Of the.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Well you know exactly what's that? I mean? Shoot, because
at some point we're all gonna need somebody to lean on,
right mm hmm, And we might have to lean on
y'all to go pay these bills. So let's take a
break and then we'll come back. We'll chat a little
bit more about story time and get into our new
favorite segment of the show. Op or no ops. Stick around, y'all,

(05:50):
we are back. So I feel like before, sorry, real quick,
just the story time made me think about how layered
this episode could potentially be because you talked about scaling
a business, you know, asking for help yes, some of
which would have to be monetary, yes. And I think
as a culture in general, we don't necessarily understand what

(06:10):
it means to start a company, grow it, scale it,
sell it, like that's something that is the aspiration when
you start a company and you have, for example, a
product line or just any business in general. So I
think this will be a great episode where we can
dig into some of that, where you can talk about,
you know, how Marcel was able to help you scale

(06:31):
your business essentially to make more money.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
So yeah, I feel like this is important for our
community because we do have a lot of trauma, you know,
from you like to call it the scarcity mindset, right,
and we say it all the time that well we
don't say it all the time. But you hear it
online that for black people there only can be one
at the top, which is really not true. Why there
can be a whole bunch of us at the top,

(06:54):
like there's plenty, there's room for all of us. The
one thing I will say, though, to just drive home
this thing is when you do ask for help, you
have to understand that you don't just get to ask
for help and not have a plan. Right like anybody
I asked help for, I had a plan. I said
this on a previous episode. I was eight thousand dollars
short for our wedding to finish, and I went to

(07:14):
our friends Tiffinny and Steve and I said, hey, I
need to borrow eight thousand dollars. This is my plan.
You know, I make X amount of dollars per month.
I'll be able to give your money back within this
many days. And once I set the plan with them,
then I was like, okay, well here's the money. Not
only do you have to have a plan, give people
their money back, and then give them something for helping

(07:36):
you in that time of need. So for example, theyrow
I borrowed eight thousand dollars. My thing is, if I'm
gonna give your money back. I'm gonna give you that
plus ten percent because that's the least I can do.
If you were going to have that money, you would
have that money in investment or a stock and you
could have made money on that money.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
But you decided to lend me that money. So you
know what I'm gonna do.

Speaker 2 (07:53):
Here's eight thousand plus eight hundred dollars. I appreciate you
because you let me rock for three months.

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Right, just a little sign of good faith. But to
pay people back then money facts Like, we don't want
to just talk about the plan and not actually pay
people back them money facts, because that's where things get
very hearing. Relationships tend to get dismantled after that. But yeah,
let's trickle all into op or no opp triuble. What
you got for us today?

Speaker 5 (08:18):
Well, I got one thing today, Shador Sanders.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
It's been in the news lately.

Speaker 5 (08:25):
I think he had a little run in with the
press his first week at the Browns.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Sounds normal, that sounds about normal.

Speaker 5 (08:33):
But that's not the reason why I wanted to bring
him up. He negotiated his deal with the Browns, and
he put in a clause called the prime equity clause
have you heard about it?

Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yes, So this clause.

Speaker 5 (08:43):
Gives him a share of revenue that the Browns generate
from his name, image, and likeness. Any content that he
makes he gets revenue from. He basically is like a
partner with the Browns. And I wanted to know if
y'all have an op or no op a about this.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
You did the right thing, brother, You did the right thing,
because what's going to happen is that I don't know
much about all the semantics when it comes to football
and whatnot, but your likeness, okay, as a Sanders, Yes,
capitalize on that shit.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
It's no differlutely no different than what Brownie did and
what Bryce James will have any child of a celebrity
who's going into the same sport, right, Bronnie James, even
though he was think taking in the second round, his
jersey sales for Rookie was number one, number one, which
means the company is making millions and millions of dollars.

Speaker 1 (09:36):
And it didn't just start. Now.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
I remember when I was playing in college, right, there
was a player by the name of Reggie Bush. If
you don't know who Reggie Bush is, go look up
Reggie Bush. Reggie Bush was the most famous football player
on the planet his last two years of college, won
the Heisman Trophy. Right well, also wanted a national title
until they lost to Texas, they would have won three
in a row.

Speaker 1 (09:54):
But he goes to the NFL.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
They do this whole expos about how his parents took
some money from an agent and they strip them of
his Heisman Trophy and they strip them of everything. Right Meanwhile,
USC gets to keep all of the money and everything
they generated off his likeness as an amateur. So when
I look at this new deal with NIL, It's like, Hey,
as an amateur, I'm still bringing value to the company
regardless of where I'm drafted. Because it doesn't matter where

(10:19):
Shador and Shiloh get drafted.

Speaker 1 (10:21):
They are coming with a brand.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
They're also coming with eyeballs because content is king, and
since they do contact, they're bringing a whole bunch of
people since they stream to watch the Browns.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
So why not get a percentage of equity of what
I deserve?

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Absolutely, since I'm bringing so much to the company. And
you know why the NFL said yes, because it is
a fact.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
Yeah, Like, what was their argument going to be to
counter that?

Speaker 1 (10:44):
None know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
So, and I'm glad that this is on the like
we're talking about this because this is what we as
a people need to understand.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
We can get equity in things when we know our value.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
Because when you know your value, like we learn from Tyler,
you don't always accept the big cash upfront.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
Give me equity so I can.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
Continuously make money when I'm no longer playing, no longer shooting,
no longer you know, filming things.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
So I'm excited about it. I think this is dope.

Speaker 2 (11:09):
But I think a lot more athletes are going to
have to look into this when they go into play
professional sports or even on the film. You know, I
go into films now and it's like, what equity can
I get? Because I'm coming with my audience. We have
an Emmy Award winning podcast, we wrote books. Yeah, those
people are going to come support the film.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
Okay, you said Emmy Award, Emmy award, you better speak.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
There's also a thing I know if you say, I
am followed by whatever it is. Yeah, the power of manifestation.
I believe that wholeheartedly. So if we're coming that, we're
bringing that to projects.

Speaker 3 (11:39):
Give me what I owe and what you'll mean give
me my money.

Speaker 6 (11:42):
I'm glad you brought that up for because I saw
it online, but I wasn't too sure that it was
a real thing.

Speaker 7 (11:47):
The equity clause.

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Yeah, and he named it after his father. Let's give it.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Ain't nothing. There's nothing much better than that, you know
what I'm saying. I hope my boys do that.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
You know what I'm saying. You know you just got.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Clause you want to put you get the lawyer.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Get the lawyer on the phone.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
This is also coming off of Jackson saying, like, guys,
I think I really like football. Now, I'm like, man,
these kids going to just drag us through every sport
until they decide which one that is going to surface
us the first one. So we got time. But that's dope.
I'm actually really happy to hear about that.

Speaker 5 (12:30):
I think speaking of the Sanders and asking for help,
like we're talking about on this episode, I think Dion
Sanders recently had to have surgery to remove his bladder.

Speaker 6 (12:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
I did see that bladder.

Speaker 5 (12:42):
Cancer issues, and uh, the person that decided to help
him through surgery was Caruccie.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
What she really on the side, Yeah, she was.

Speaker 7 (12:53):
That's what I was. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (12:54):
Yeah, it was like a hard fact.

Speaker 7 (13:02):
That's your business.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Promise the fact.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
Absolutely. Yeah. I have no idea what the context of
the relationship is. But you know, hey, like Matt said,
he had there.

Speaker 8 (13:12):
You know, I feel you what you think, Josh, I'll
be swiping away man, I already do.

Speaker 7 (13:17):
I don't think I.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Care one thing. I will say.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
I'm happy he talked about, you know, the project can
go through the process because one thing he said, and
this is what's more important.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Everyone was talking about.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Who was by his side, but not listening to the
fact that he was saying, go get checked. Yeah, you
know the reason why I'm here today is because they
found it early and I had good people by my
side to help me through the process.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
That should be the lead story, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
So I'm happy to promise stepping out here and letting
black men know, like yo, a fight and if you
don't go to the doctor, you could be at risk
in your family.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
You won't be it for your family. So shout out
to Prime for that man for sure.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
I love you man, all right? Cool? So asking for help,
any of y'all had to ask for help and got
turned down I'm horrible.

Speaker 5 (13:59):
I'm actually really bad at asking for help. I'm glad
we're talking about this today.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Yeah, So what's the apprehension. Is it a pride thing?
Is it that you don't want to bother people? Is
it that you know you won't have a way to
compensate them back or to pay back if it's something financial,
for example, you won't have the means to do it.

Speaker 5 (14:17):
Well, I think, just in general, asking for money is
probably the last thing that I would ever do, unless
I'm asking my parents, But anything else, I'll just be
nervous that I'm gonna sound dumb, or the perfectionism issue
where I feel like I need to have all of
my ducks in a row before I ask anybody to
help me, or I'm like, oh, have I done everything

(14:38):
that I should do before? Have I exhausted my own
resources before I go ask somebody for theirs?

Speaker 7 (14:44):
Well?

Speaker 2 (14:44):
I think that that's part of it, though, right, I think, yeah,
all it was all valid. Yeah, that's say, that's all
like valid, Like if you haven't exhausted all your resources,
and how do you know if you really need help?
You have to exhaust them first, and then once you've
exhausted all of those things, and now you realize, like, wait,
I got all my ducks in a row. Still not there,
I've exhausted my resources, still not there all right? At

(15:05):
this point, I need to find out who can get
me over that hump.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
But I think that's the that's the that's the whole
point of it, because when you do approach someone who
could potentially help you and then that you don't have
a plan or you haven't exhausted those options, then you
look like somebody that doesn't have it together. And I'd
be less likely to lend you money or to help
you through a situation if I don't fully believe that
A you're capable of seeing it through, B that you

(15:29):
even need the help you know legitimately, and see, like,
maybe you're gonna ghost me and I won't get my
joint back.

Speaker 7 (15:35):
I like, I won't say saying or do you don't
even know what you want?

Speaker 1 (15:38):
I was gonna say the same thing about being deliberate
about what you want.

Speaker 7 (15:41):
But here's the thing, people, some people don't have it
all together. Right.

Speaker 8 (15:45):
The help that we offer people doesn't necessarily need to
be monetarily all a full fledged sort of plan. It
is helping people get to that direction where they need
to be absolutely coming to you for you know, like, yo,
this is what I this is what I want to do,
or this is what I think i want to do.
I really don't know what I'm going to do. I
don't think you need to wait until you get all
your decks and roll always either. Sometimes the ducks are

(16:06):
going to get in a roll when you ask for
the help. That's all you need instruction to get to
that point.

Speaker 3 (16:11):
So maybe trying to get motivation, Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 8 (16:15):
When Trimple says she has to do all these things,
I think you mentioned like three things. I don't think
you need to wait all the time. It's good to
be conscious about those things, right, It's good to know, like, yo,
maybe I should be doing this, and that's a responsible person.
That's the way you want to lend money. Yes, it's responsible.
But sometimes people just don't know that they got to
do this, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (16:33):
That's fair. Remember someone had come to you and asked
for you to invest. I think it was like a
gym business or a startup with their gym business, and
you said, did you know that you have to have
this much amount of rent in capital so that when
you can pay your rent for the first six months.
Is that like you literally listed all of the things
that you needed in order to.

Speaker 7 (16:51):
Start guys that that person needs.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
And then they went back and was like, oh, shoot,
I don't have those things in place and that can
do the work.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
They no longer ask me for the money.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah, because to your point, they didn't have all the
adducts in the row. And it was like, yo, coach Deval,
I want to do what you did. You know, I
want to borrow twenty five k to open up my gym.
And I was just like okay, because I told.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Them the story about how I borrowed money.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
But I also told them, I said, you do realize
that you have to have first, last, and security deposit
for rent. You also have to have a duplicate of
that rent because you're doing an industrial space. So say
the rent is five thousand dollars, you have to have
twenty thousand dollars in your bank account just to be
qualified to get in the building to see it. And
they were like, oh, I didn't even know that, So like,

(17:36):
all right, let me get my money together first before
I come back to you.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
But that goes back to what Matt was saying.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
I think people when they're asking for her help need
to be deliberate about what they're asking for because that
also shows me that you have a plan. Right if
you come to me and you say, Hey, Deval, I'm
looking for help. It may not be financially, it may
be can you put me in contact with, for example,
a writer because I'm looking for something, Well, let me
see what you're working on.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
Because I do have writers.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
But I'm not going to put you in contact with
somebody when I look at what you have and you're
not even prepared to sit down with that person and
take time. So the biggest thing for me with people
asking help is once you get past the fear, make
sure you have a plan and you're deliberate about what
you're asking for because a lot of times the people
who are trying to help you would love to help
you if they knew how you know. And I think

(18:25):
that's why people feel like I don't want to sound dumb,
you know, because if you're not deliberate about what you're
asking for, and the person's looking at you with the
slow blink like.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
What now, You're like, you know what?

Speaker 2 (18:34):
I'm not asking nobody, but it's like, no, ask me,
but you're not being clear.

Speaker 7 (18:38):
But also don't don't feel afraid to feel like to
feel like you're being dumb.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
Yeah, I feel you.

Speaker 8 (18:43):
These hesitation as will hold you back absolutely shack people
come to for me, Like nobody's asking me for money.

Speaker 7 (18:49):
That's a lie.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
I know that's a lot. I know that's a lie.

Speaker 8 (18:53):
But the make a lot of my a lot of
people coming to me for help, and that probably talking
from the creative process to feel like, yo, I want
to start a podcast, or yo, I want to sell
my photography business, or what I want to do this,
And generally they're talking about like sometimes they coming to
me and they do sound dumb, but it's okay, Like
y'all want to start a podcast, Do I need like
a live audience or.

Speaker 7 (19:16):
Right everybody's recording there.

Speaker 8 (19:18):
Like that Sometimes people need it, or like, yo, I
want to start my photography business. You think I just
charge five hundred dollars for a wedding, bro, don't even
think about that, Like you're charge and go work with
somebody for a few years. And that's some of the
guidance that some people need. Sometimes they don't really understand,
like what's the path to go, And sometimes that that

(19:38):
little that help and asking is sounding stupid, like you
don't need that focus on this, that's the direction.

Speaker 3 (19:45):
So it's overall just like guidance.

Speaker 7 (19:48):
Yeah, I mean, help doesn't necessarily need to be the money.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
The money, Yeah, that's my thing.

Speaker 5 (19:52):
That's the last thing I'm thinking about, like is asking
somebody for money, But even just asking for help because
I don't know something, I a lot of times learn
the hard way because I don't ask for help.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (20:04):
I learned by failing, and it takes me a lot longer,
it's a lot more costly, and you know, I could
have already gotten some help and probably did things more efficiently, quicker,
and been more successful if I ask for help.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
See that's what I deal with now, even with my
prototype kids who asked me about going to the next
stage in life. What I've learned from a lot of
people is that sometimes when they ask for help, they're
not happy with the help they get. Oh yeah, you know,
And if you're gonna ask for help, you need to
understand that if someone's going to help you, they're also
going to be terms in which they're going to help you.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
So, for example, if it's money, y'all, don't mind giving
you this money back, but I need my money in
a certain amount of time.

Speaker 1 (20:47):
Then you get to, oh, you're gonna put a limit
on it.

Speaker 7 (20:49):
Wha what? Wait? Wait?

Speaker 2 (20:51):
So I'm not allowed to create no boundaries or no
guidelines for how I help you. And I see a
lot of people nah nah nah, you're doing it, or
you lend a person of money, Now you have to
ask ask them, Hey, why are you hounding me? Yeah,
I'm not hounding you, bro' I'm asking you the same
way you asked me for help.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
I'm asking you.

Speaker 6 (21:10):
I was in grant Cam and I went for a
little photo walk on the beach. Excuse me, and a guy,
a gentleman out there was arguing with his friend about something.
Then they passing by me and YO, can we ask
you a question like? Yeah, what's up? I lend long
story shot, I lend my boss some money. I need
to get paid and I need to go to ATM.
He wouldn't let me go. My boss lent me some money,
he said, and I said, I'll get it back to you.

(21:31):
On Monday, so everything cool, perfect.

Speaker 7 (21:34):
Monday.

Speaker 6 (21:34):
Come he don't got the money for him because something
popped up emergency, so he had to use the money
he was going to give back that he lent him
to cover the emergency. So he went to his boss like, yo,
I'll get you back the money in like two three days.
His boss is like, that wasn't the deal. So now
he tied. He like, yo, charge you interest on top
of that. So the dude, he's mad as hell. He's like, yo,
I don't think. I don't think he shouldn't be hounded.

Speaker 7 (21:56):
Men. Now, man, I'm like, bro, you you realize you agreed.

Speaker 6 (21:59):
To borrow the money give it back to him on Monday.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
So now you didn't keep it, You're end of the bargain.
And now you're mad that he is asking you and
trying to hold you accountable to it. That's up.

Speaker 2 (22:07):
That to me, is why it seems like people don't
like asking for help because once they they ask for help,
they don't want.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
To be accounting the hook. They want it on their terms.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
And the truth is a lot of people who only
want things on their terms. That's the reason why they
need help. You gotta be uncomfortable to succeed in life.
If you want everything to be on your terms, even
how you ask for help, you're never gonna get to
where you're going. Like the key to life is being uncomfortable,
stepping out of bounds. Me and Matt talk about this,
and me and Josh talking about this last night. If
you want to do anything great in life, not status quo,

(22:38):
you're going to have to step outside of what everyone
else is doing to do it on your own right.
More than likely there's going to be no road in
front of you or no road map of how to
do that. So you're going to be lost a lot.
And it's okay to be lost a lot. But when
you lost and you see someone who may be able
to shine a light on a little bit of road,
you can't then be too egotistical to say I can't ask.

Speaker 6 (23:02):
I think you said it right there. I think all
of it balls into a little bit of pride. You've
got to put your pride to the side to just accident, right.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
And then also some people skip over the sacrifice portion
of it, like sometimes you're going to have to sacrifice
one thing for the other. For example, someone had approached
the val about borrowing money to propose to his girlfriend. Yeah,
and it's like so it's like, okay, you have the
idea and you want to propose, so clearly this is

(23:29):
a plan that you want to put in action. So
instead of asking me to borrow ten thousand dollars, how
about you save five hundred each month until you're able
to Then.

Speaker 7 (23:40):
Yo, nobody gets money for you.

Speaker 8 (23:42):
Don't borrow money for your wedding like brands I had
to No. No, but you didn't borrow your friends money.

Speaker 7 (23:49):
He did your friends money. Yeah, it was your parents.

Speaker 1 (23:53):
No, I bought Steve and Tiffany's the time.

Speaker 7 (24:00):
Clearly, I remember you said that. But that's us. You
had a plan.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
You had a plan.

Speaker 7 (24:05):
That makes sense.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
But bro, I had two separate people asked me the
same thing.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
Yes, I let one bar the money and I didn't
let the other one because one had a plan. One
also had a record of paying me back consistently on
things that I didn't.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
Ask for, so it was easy for me.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
It was just a thing of capital he didn't have
at the time, not that he didn't have money.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
He had a plan at everything.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
He's like, Yo, I don't got so and so, and
I'm like, hell, yeah, take it. And even that person
was trying to give me interest back on it, and
I was like, nah, bro, like you had the plan
you did this, I wouldn't have made that much money back,
like go.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Ahead, the other person, I said, absolutely not.

Speaker 2 (24:44):
I said, if this was your plan, the fact that
I've lent you money before and you still haven't paid
me the money back from then why would I give
you money now?

Speaker 1 (24:51):
And they cussed me out, like.

Speaker 7 (24:52):
Those are two different people.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
Completely different people, the whole character different.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
And because I wouldn't help this person, the person cursed
me out. And we don't talk like a dog. Yeah,
we don't talk no more.

Speaker 8 (25:04):
That's the type of people. You don't let money to
it in the first place. See, but that happened for
a reason. You don't need You're right, And I don't
lose no sleepover it.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
I don't because you and you think I took that
curson and laid down to know I this ass?

Speaker 1 (25:19):
Who do you think man? Hold up? You sending me
text messages? Now I'm getting on the phone. Who do
you think you talking to?

Speaker 7 (25:24):
Like?

Speaker 2 (25:25):
Because I'm a nice person, but don't take advantage of that.
You know what I'm saying, because I do honestly believe
in group economics, I do honestly believe that no one
who lives in abundance should be living in abundance and
gatekeeping all.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Of their resources.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
I honestly feel that because the people who are at
a different level where I am have never gate kept
their resources from me.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
The only reason why I'm here is because of people like.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Marcel verning, people like IRVN and Mike at the gym,
people like Tyler. I'm like, there's so many names that
I can people like my dad. My dad helped me
when I needed the most.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
You know what I'm saying. I got friends Bo Sharif.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
Me and Sharif was both broke, both broke, and he
looked together living together, looked in my eyes and could
tell that it was like like I was going through it.
And then at the time, our rent was fifteen hundred
dollars and he just was just like yo, heare And
I was like what's this. He was just like, yo,
it's just fifteen just hold it. And I was just like, yo,

(26:23):
I'll just put it on rent. He's like, no, I
covered the rent.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
And I was like.

Speaker 4 (26:29):
You right, you know.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
Me, you know I Yo, I tried because you.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
Just thought in that moment you felt seen like damn,
like you really didn't have to. You don't got it neither.
But something on his spirit was like, yo, I have
you this month.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
And my ego did not say no, Bro. My ego
said thank you, and I hugged up man.

Speaker 7 (26:55):
Bro.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
I was just like, yo, you have no idea what
you're just doing for me. I didn't ask for help,
but I accepted the help.

Speaker 6 (27:02):
That's the big thing as well.

Speaker 8 (27:04):
People some people need help too. I think it also
act like what's the word, what's a big word? It
behooves us uh tod.

Speaker 7 (27:20):
It was supposed to be bigger than that. I didn't
realize it was that little.

Speaker 8 (27:24):
It's also responsibility for us, like you said, like too
much as given much as required. Yes to also see
when people do need help that we also reach out to.
And I think I'm guilty of not helping people enough.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
You know.

Speaker 7 (27:34):
That's when I see that myself, Like, but.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
You know what it is.

Speaker 8 (27:37):
Sometimes you try to help people too, and people just
you realize that people don't need your help.

Speaker 7 (27:43):
They I mean, they need to help, but they're just
not willing to accept it.

Speaker 4 (27:45):
They don't want it.

Speaker 2 (27:46):
And that's really what this episode boils down to, Right,
you don't want to ask for help because you don't
want to be on the hook, but also you don't
want to feel like because we had another friend of
our was saying, I don't like ask people help, especially
when people think that I'm the one that got it.
That's the problem. We're all thinking that other people are thinking,
and other people are worried about themselves because we all

(28:06):
are out here struggling. Everybody everybody within.

Speaker 8 (28:09):
Their absolutely Like I think people look at you guys
and saying like, nah, y'all got it made, and y'all
don't need help.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
You absolutely need know that, And it's all the people
that were helping in the process. Like we're not just
sitting back here just like yeah, we live in abundant No,
we literally are supporting so many people.

Speaker 7 (28:31):
Help is basically community building.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
That's what it is because in turn helping us in
different ways that it may not be financial. Right, you
can grab my kids for me, and I don't got
to stress about that.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
Please go grab my cat.

Speaker 3 (28:46):
Talk about the power of delegation. Oh yeah, Like I
am the queen of you know what, I just don't
have the capacity right now. Like I even think about
just help in terms of being a mother and being
a wife, being a new mom or a new dad.
It's just like being able to say, Hey, this is
what I need in this moment just to stay afloat
or just to survive. Yeah, Like, it doesn't have to

(29:06):
be again money, it doesn't have to be big life
changing things. Something as small as just lending a hand
or doing a task can really be life changing for
people on a daily basis.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Spending time.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
For me, some of the biggest help that I got
is when my boys come over and we work out,
and we sit down and we smoke afterwards, and we
just talk about what we're going through and then we
look at each other and be like, Yo, you're going
through that too, how are you going through that? And
we help each other through emotional hard times. It's like, oh,
your wife is going through that, your kids are going
through this. A lot of times we need to ask

(29:40):
each other help about that. How are you getting through
this hard time emotionally or spiritually?

Speaker 1 (29:45):
And having friends that you can trust and sit down with.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
That also breaks the ego because we've talked about it too,
like don't ever be in a spot where there's six
of us in the room and one of us is
not doing well and the other five of us is
not going to.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Be in a position to help them at one person.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
Sure, but you only get that community when y'all help
each other and other things. You know, because I got
college buddies. Now we get together and they be like, yo,
so and so is going through it. You know what
I'm saying, Like, Yo, let's all throw two grand in
the pot and you can just throw somebody ten thousand
dollars and they can just be settled. And then a
couple months go buys your turn. He's like, man, I
was looking to do this thing for the kids.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
But we can't travel.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
And then now you just get a zelle from your
homies and it's like, Yo, I got five stacks my
homies put together so I could take my kids on vacation.
I have friend group that do that. You know what
I'm saying. I think that we all have to start
understanding that that's how you as a community grow so
that nobody's struggling, you know, And you're also not shaming people. Now, Nigga,
we paid for your family to go on vacation. We're

(30:42):
not doing that, neither nobody. And this is the thing
we tell in our groups, don't tell the wives. Let
that man walk in his house and his wife understand
that he found a way to make sure they got it.
Not your boys had to give you money because maybe
that was his turn to get the money. But you
don't know how many times he's getting help to give

(31:05):
someone else. So for us, it's you know, amongst us
as men, sometimes let's get together, let's rock with each other,
you know, let's create a bond so that we can
all be good.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
Yeah. I love that support group because, like like he says,
he always has you know, his friends over here, and
the best way to kind of give help sometimes is
just to lend an ear or to have advice or
bro do you think about this same thing goes for
me and my girlfriend's handy a little guidance, Like it's
it's it's really great when you do have that kind
of camaraderie, that brotherhood and sisterhood of people you can
rely on. We right right right.

Speaker 1 (31:39):
You know I did how much that time because y'all
talked about me crying.

Speaker 2 (31:43):
You know how many dudes on the set down on
that on that freaking balcony and cried, I mean the.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Workouse was hard, but.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
For different reasons.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
In the house, man, she's gonna ask me what's the dinner.
I'm like, bro, it's all right.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
So we touched on the word gatekeeping, right, and and
I Devine I think recently mentioned like we don't understand
why people gatekeep, or like, what's the feeling like you
want to keep things to yourself?

Speaker 5 (32:14):
Right?

Speaker 3 (32:15):
What's you guys' idea about gatekeeping information? You know, your
favorite nail tech? Like some people feel like I don't
want to share you know who I go to get
things done a because they won't be available for me anymore?
Or be it to st want anybody to have the
experience I have? What did you say?

Speaker 4 (32:31):
It was scarcity mindset?

Speaker 5 (32:33):
People think that if I have it, it's there's not
enough for everybody. Or even I hate when girls be like,
you know, she copied my haircut, Girl, you don't have
an original idea, No.

Speaker 7 (32:46):
Copy you.

Speaker 5 (32:47):
It's okay because even if they do have the same haircut,
they can't do it like you because there's only one
of you. Yeah, but there's nothing there's there's enough for everybody.
And if you have what they say, you gotta closed
fist you want have room for more.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
That's true.

Speaker 5 (33:02):
So people that have a scarcity mindset they don't want
to give, but they also don't even have room to
receive more.

Speaker 3 (33:08):
That's so true.

Speaker 7 (33:09):
Also, people want you to tell them everything. Man, I
tell you everything, Son that everything.

Speaker 3 (33:15):
People sometimes don't even read a caption that says go
to click the link in the bio, like ye, I
see questions sometimes that pop up and I'm like, did
you even listen to the podcast episode? Did you listen
to the clip?

Speaker 7 (33:26):
Like?

Speaker 3 (33:26):
Why are you asking a question? You want me to
go to Google and find this for you to send
you the dress to put it in your shopping cart,
to send it to your house to like.

Speaker 8 (33:37):
People will be like, yo, what kind of camera you use?
I tell you this, what kind of lends you use?

Speaker 4 (33:42):
All?

Speaker 8 (33:42):
I tell you this, what you do, like, how you
process it? I tell you this at the end of
the day, Bro, if I want tell you everything, I'm
not really gatekeeping, Like they just understand what gatekeeper actually is.
That people are not going to give you every piece
of information. I can tell you, you know what I
went through to get to it. But my road is
now your role like my gate at your gate son.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
I have nothing to add to that.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
I agree, like your process and how you found out
is what made you learn how to do it. When
you take away the process from them, just like a child,
you take away the process, I'm not helping you if
I just give you all the answers how to figure
it out.

Speaker 8 (34:17):
And talked about the coconut the spot in Brooklyn with
the coconuts, and was like, you're not going to just
give you the supply. It's not a gatekeepro this is
what this is my business.

Speaker 5 (34:27):
That is a fact, and that's a boundary more so
than gatekeeping.

Speaker 2 (34:31):
Right.

Speaker 5 (34:32):
People ask me like oh, people will try to finesse
and BM me like you know, I just got a
couple of questions about podcasts and and I'm like you
can click the link in and there's too much.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Like you have to sign up for my I don't like.

Speaker 7 (34:51):
I don't like the term gatekeeper. It pisses me off. Man.

Speaker 8 (34:54):
It's making me can tell you can tell maeople do anything.
You literally can do anything out here, bro. And people
be like yo, this person's gate keeping.

Speaker 7 (35:03):
End up giving me the information.

Speaker 8 (35:04):
Right time, cameras just like people hold back. People think
people are holding back, but I think the reality is
people are not.

Speaker 7 (35:15):
People are over sharing.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
If anything, I feel you on that I do.

Speaker 8 (35:19):
I do feel like you want my produce like you
want my producers information like some people just like I
think what it like, what I think we should be
doing is asking for help, but at the same time
doing You checked me on it yesterday, you be like, Yo,
it's not just I'm hustling too, It's not just me
doing that. People want to see you're you doing something
at the same time. So there's a happy balance in

(35:42):
asking for help and doing the work because if you're
doing something, people are going to ask you, right, and
if that person is doing something as well, that's what
makes the whole thing go together. This is a role, right,
And some people are on a moving train, and that
train you have some people are going slow than others,
and some people are going backwards. But if you're going backwards,
if my train is moving, how do you expect me.

Speaker 7 (36:03):
To help you?

Speaker 3 (36:03):
And some people want the shortcut. Ultimately, people just want
the shortcut. In a world of instant gratification, people want
to skip the steps. Yes, tell me all the things
that you did so I could blow through that so
I can get to where I think I want to be,
which is where you're at. When it's like yo, you're
completely disrespecting the entire process of trying to do the
work required to get to where you want to go.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
That's where the people say you gay keeping that is
a fact.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
I'm trying to find something to argue because.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
You see, I'm trying to look for something, but I
can't because.

Speaker 7 (36:35):
You absolutely how many trains, how many people you work with?

Speaker 8 (36:38):
Right, people only work with you, and you've only worked
with people because your trains are moving in the same
direction all the time.

Speaker 7 (36:46):
It doesn't need to be moving at that same speed.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 8 (36:49):
I could pick you up and you could jump on
my train and we could just take this train together.
I'm helping you. But you talked about it with your
boy myself. It was a moving train. It was it
was a moving train. Because if you're going back to
the business, if you were going back where he wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
Right, right, if you were a flaky dude, if you
weren't building your own thing from the ground up, he
just yeah, like Joshaid found the opportunity.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
You also brought up a good point. You got to
understand when something is in investment and something is helped,
because that's also a big difference, right, Yeah, if someone
invests in your idea, they expect a return on that investment.
So yeah, they're going to be on you, like what's
moving with the business. If someone's just giving you money,
then that's a that's a favor, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
People have to know the difference. With Marcel, it wasn't
a favor.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Our trains were going in the same direction because he
was leaving Cushman Awake and he was looking to invest
in small businesses to build out his portfolio. So it
was like he saw me go in this direction and
this is what we had.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
So you're absolutely right. People do need to know the
difference between an investment and a favor.

Speaker 7 (37:50):
You mean people I've.

Speaker 8 (37:54):
Used in my business as either assistance or whatever, and
I know that they need help and they want to
help me, Like they say they want to help me,
they really want money, which is fine, right right, But
I see a lot of times they're just not willing to,
like I want to do this. It's not about earning
something or whatever. They want to be putting a certain musician.

(38:17):
They want to feel like they're in a position and
not realizing that the help that they're getting it might
be menial, right, It might be just carry backs. It
might be just standing at this photoboo from pressing his button.
But yo, you're getting to help you need, bro.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
But you know why that that's disappeared in this demographic
or age group. There's no more like trades and mentorship programs.
Remember when we were growing up, you did things for
somebody and didn't get paid because you wanted to learn
how to do it. Now it's you got to pay
me for my time even if I'm not qualified to do.
And I feel like we're losing a lot of good

(38:50):
hard workers because, yeah, you have no experience in this,
and you expect to get paid sixty thousand dollars to
come here and have me teach you. Like I'm not
doing that.

Speaker 7 (38:59):
Nobody want to work or nothing.

Speaker 1 (39:00):
Man, That is a fact.

Speaker 7 (39:01):
I've seen.

Speaker 8 (39:01):
I've seen a post on threads the other day where
somebody posted like, this is you know this job is open,
it's not a paid position. All the comments in it
was this is if you're looking to be in this field.
This is an opportunity for you. Now, I do know
people exploit other people.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Absolutely.

Speaker 8 (39:18):
Everybody in the comments was like, so you just want
people work for free?

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (39:22):
Do you know how many internships.

Speaker 7 (39:24):
You're going to learn SOMETHINGE?

Speaker 8 (39:26):
You don't got to do this every weekend, but son
take the experience, ya I did.

Speaker 5 (39:30):
I learned podcasting by working for free for like five years,
making my own podcast, making other people's podcasts, not getting
paid anything, and people would help me and do things
for me for free. And now that I've started my business,
like I produced my own my first live show twenty
seventeen for my podcast, and I got people to like

(39:53):
steal recording equipment from a recording.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Studio, Way.

Speaker 5 (40:03):
Who had just started her like taco catering business. She
did tacos and she sold them because I couldn't pay
for them. I didn't charge people to get in, but
I sold like raffle tickets. We did like a raffle
and I hired a band, a five piece band, because
I wanted it to look like a nightly show.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
And I had cameras.

Speaker 5 (40:22):
I had three cameras, five piece band, two interviews, and
it was all recorded the band. I was like, y'all
can have whatever we make off the raffle. We made
twenty five dollars and they had to split it between.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
But this year, well last.

Speaker 5 (40:39):
Year, when I started my business, I started to need
somebody to make original music for me. So the girl
who made the music for my podcast and put together
that band.

Speaker 4 (40:48):
For me, I was able to hire her first project.

Speaker 5 (40:50):
So that and she worked for free for me for
all that time, and we just had fun because we
both had a desire to live off of our creativity.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
But you so you started to from the ground up.
And we said before that too many people sometimes want
to jump down the steps and to get to the
person who's already at the top. And it's like, nah,
build with the people around you. Because what happened, you
had an opportunity to be able to pay her for something,
and you then was like, yo, it was great to
work with her. She did a great job this time unpaid.
Now I have somebody to throw her away to do

(41:20):
something years later. You never know the impact you're going
to make on somebody when you do have a free
opportunity to do her internship.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
And I want to say this too, man, it ain't
just they make it seem like, you know, they only
ask poor people or broke people to work for free, which.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
Is not true.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
Jonah Hill was one of the highest paid actors in
Hollywood when.

Speaker 1 (41:38):
He did Wolf of Wallstrouke, and he took.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
An extremely high pay cut because he wanted to see
what it was like to work on a set with
the Leonardo DiCaprio. He was like, this is just going
to change my career. So just being here, I think
he got paid.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
His SAG minimum per day rate.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
It was I here like, I think it was something
like twenty six thousand dollars, which if you understand the
music industry, I mean that the movie industry at that time,
he was worth anywhere between ten to fifteen million dollars
per movie. But he took a job making twenty six
thousand dollars because he wanted to learn, but also getting
an experience. That goes back to what Josh is saying,
you see something.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
That's going to help you.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
You can't always get paid for stuff, especially if you
don't have experience. And if your response is going to
be you expect people to work for free, the answer
is yes, especially if you don't have experience. I just
did my last TV or a film project. By talks
about did my last film project, and I make a
lot of money on TV, but I did it for
free because I had never worked in that space, doing

(42:34):
that genre. So I felt like I didn't have to
be compensated because I was not.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
What's talk about qualified.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
I didn't think I was qualified to I thought I
was qualified to act in the project, but I didn't
think my value came enough. I had to learn some
and I was willing to do that. And I think
more people need to understand that your value in something else.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Yeah, it's a sacrifice.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
So even at this stage in the game, you still
felt like, yo, I can do projects that are as
an investment for me because I'm going to gain from that,
and the potential opportunity that are going to come from
it is contingent upon me taking this unpaid right now.

Speaker 5 (43:10):
I have always refused to work for free, Yeah, when
I wanted to. So I got into podcasting because I
wanted to be a radio host, and in order to
get on the radio, you got to work for the
radio station for free. Radio stations really don't have a
lot of money. They always want interns they want people's
street team people, and they want you to work for
free just to get your fucking foot in the door.
I was already a host for live events, and I

(43:32):
was like, well, if I can do something on my
own that I can teach myself more skills that could
possibly pay off even more than just being a radio host.
And I would rather do it myself and use the
resources that I have available to me for free and
create something rather than just working toward creating something for
somebody else. I can create something for myself. So I

(43:53):
feel like there is a way that you can do it.
If you don't want to work for free for somebody else,
that's you're putting all of your effort into creating somebody
else's dream. You can put your effort into creating your
own dream and learning and building your expertise. I read
this book called The Defining Decade by doctor Meg ja
Hy thirty is not the New twenties what it's called

(44:14):
and it's about. She talks about this thing called identity
capital and building your identity capital in your twenties so
that you can have a job that you are good
at and that you like. You go to college, you
don't really know what you want to do with your life,
and then you discover you might be into something else.
So you go out and you either you can find
a mentor or take an internship or a free job fellowship,

(44:37):
or you can teach yourself new skills that build your
identity capital and make you a better candidate for things
that you want to do. But you don't have experience
in today, So I feel like you don't necessarily have
to work towards somebody else's goal, you know, if you're
not going to be getting paid, because I think that
is it can be exploitation, especially when we're talking about
certain industries. You can do it yourself, teach yourself like

(45:01):
there's nothing wrong with being self taught. And the internet
is so fucking vast. You can learn how to do
anything on YouTube. On people have put out free textbooks
about anything you want to learn.

Speaker 4 (45:12):
It's all there for you.

Speaker 5 (45:13):
But you have to put the time in, which is
either it's going to cost you. You know, there's a
cost associated with it. You got to decide what it's
worth to you to do it.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
I agree with you, but I do feel like there's
value in apprenticeship. I do too, absolutely not think that's
the working for free aspect, because yeah, you can work
for free and try to figure it out on your
own and that can take you five years, or you
can apprentice for someone for six months and learn all
of that. Yeah, I'm the king of working for free
or for six months to a year. I did that

(45:43):
at Parici Speed School. I was making ten dollars an hour.
As a former NFL athlete. I was making five hundred
thousand dollars a year coming out the NFL, and then
they were like, Devale, we can pay you ten.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
Dollars an hour. I was like, cool, because I learned.

Speaker 2 (45:55):
I learned how I got my degree in kinesiology through them.
I got my certifications for my Nation National Academy.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
Of Sports and Pride. Some companies will invest in you
by putting you through these certification programs that you paid for.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
They paid for my certifications.

Speaker 2 (46:10):
Plus I also just saw how the business worked, and
I realized, and I'll never forget this. I go in
there to PEIZI and I'm speaking to them. I said,
that's what we need to do. I just came out
to the league. We get all these high end athletes, we
can get these schools in that school, and they were
just looking at me and they said, that's nice. They said,
our demographic is between seven and eleven. And I was
just like what I said, I can get. I can

(46:31):
get Calvin Johnson. That's my boy. I get this price,
he said, Devalo. Those people do not pay the train.
They're already elite athletes. They are going to come here
for free. We need people who are going to pay
for training. You know who pays for training. The kid
who wants to get faster, to be the fastest in
their class. You know why, because that's all they want
to do, seven to eleven. They don't care about Gucci

(46:53):
belts and sneakers. Mom, I just want to be the fastest.
And then I realized, like, wait a minute, so y'all
business model isn't dependent upon elite.

Speaker 3 (47:01):
Athletes like no, it's dependent upon parents who need to
send their kids somewhere and after school. I only learned
one of them until they get tired.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
And I only learned that through apprenticeship because if I
would have tried to do it my own, I would
have been fumbling and bundling how to get my friends
to join my gym.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
So that that alone just taught me like, sometimes it's
good to work for free.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
Yeah. I did the same thing at MAC. I mean
it wasn't completely free, but I was working part time,
self taught makeup, like you said, going online, you know,
playing around in it a bit, and then finally getting
hired and then realizing, oh, they're going to put me
through training anyway, So I already had an act for
doing makeup. Then I get some kind of formal training
by going through their training process, and then I start

(47:39):
working with people, and then I start making relationships, and
then I started building clientele, and then I'm like, oh,
I can do this outside of the store. Oh I
could make X amount of dollars outside of the store.
And that's how I was able to transition from being
in retail to having my own makeup business. You know.

Speaker 8 (47:55):
So I would say, don't it's not really working for free.
Don't work for free if you're gonna get it transaction. Yeah,
if it's transactional and you're learning something, fine do that,
but and make sure it's short term. Don't go to
nobody's job and just be working for free. If you're
getting something from it and it's going to help you

(48:15):
in what you're doing.

Speaker 7 (48:16):
In your learning. Do that.

Speaker 8 (48:17):
But yeah, nobody, do not work for don't go to
Wendy's for free, don't do that, don't do anything you
don't enjoy doing for free.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
To be somewhat mutually benefitical usanity.

Speaker 5 (48:30):
Capital is just as valuable as I wouldn't say just
as valuable, but it's valuable in terms of like pain.
So if it is you're getting pain and experience, that's
going to help you to expand your career, do more
of what you love, do something better, then that is
worth your effort.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
That's my just got my moment, I just got my
moment of truth.

Speaker 3 (48:53):
Yeah, you know where I think is one of the
biggest ecosystems of help. Essentially working at Tyler Perry Studios,
I was able to see it firsthand filming this first
season of the show Divorces This because I realized that
people who had positions like the reader or just the PA,

(49:13):
you know, they are so vital to the bigger picture,
but so many of them are like, you know, I
want to be an actress too. I want to be
an actor, like I want to be this, I want
to be that. So while you're doing reading with me
and you're grabbing my coffee. You have a front row
seat to seeing how every aspect of the production is done.
And I think that that is a valuable situation where

(49:35):
you can get paid because you technically are working and
it maybe won't be a lot, but the interactions you
have with people. It's an industry where people never forget
a face. So if you have a really good interaction
with someone, it may lead to something else in the future.
If you have a very poor interaction with folks, then
it may not lead anywhere. But it's nice to see
that there are people who are willing to say, you
know what, I want to start from the bottom up

(49:56):
and see how every bit of this production works. Because
you also then get to understand what you like and
what you don't like. You might have thought you wanted
to be a cameraman and then you're like, you know what,
I actually don't want to touch a camera. I want
to do this instead, you know. So that was an
interesting dynamic to be in in that capacity for the
first time because it was really like an intensive for
whatever you want to do within that field.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
Yeah, I've been I need that Tyler Perry help.

Speaker 7 (50:22):
I knew that was coming.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Once the season.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
Right now, be there, Gate, just don't say we sent
you all right, all right, now, we can't keep these bills.
Let's go pay some bills, and we're going to come
back with listen to another episode for today, So stick

(50:50):
around all alrighty then are we back? We're back, all right,
We're back with our listener letter episode, well not episode.

(51:10):
I love the listener episode sidebar, but this is not that.
We just have one for today. I feel like I've
been sitting on the couch right next to y'all, nodding
my head, laughing and taking notes every time I listen.
I appreciate how honest and layered your conversations are, especially
when it comes to identity, family growth, and marriage, even
though I'm not married yet. Thank you. You both are
a mara for how I think and feel. I'm a

(51:32):
twenty five year old creative entrepreneur building my brand and
business from the ground up with photography, media, digital products
all under my brand z MF Studios. I'm a minimalist
with a big vision, and I've always walked with walked
a little differently from the people around me. I'm the
quote unquote quiet storm in my family, observant hardworking, deeply

(51:53):
self aware, but also loud with my dreams, and always
seeking more, not just financially but emotionally, in space virtually.
That's awesome. The episode you guys did on perfectionism hit
me hard because I often feel like I'm doing life
quote unquote wrong, simply because I do it differently, moving
in silence, focusing on long term over flashy quick winds,

(52:15):
taking time to heal and grow even when folks around
me don't understand. I stay low key, but I'm always
building something. Still, I struggle with feeling misunderstood and over
responsible for everyone's expectations of me. How do I show
up as my full, unique self, especially in a household
or environment that doesn't get it. How do I balance
honoring the way I think with being open to growth

(52:38):
when I feel like the odd one out? Yep, I
can already tell. Also, as a fellow creative, I gotta
say I love seeing how you support black artists. It's
inspiring to see black creators being uplifted in spaces like yours.
I hope to be on that level one day. And
if y'all ever need a fresh creative eye or someone
behind the lens with love and intention. I'd be honored

(52:58):
to connect. Thank you offer being real and keep doing
and keep doing, keep doing what you do. Wow, that
was awesome. I get ready to tell that she's destined
for greatness.

Speaker 5 (53:08):
Let me just interject, because she's not gonna be great
if she keeps trying to take my job, though, it's.

Speaker 4 (53:14):
Gonna be a great gonna be a great ass trying
to take my job.

Speaker 7 (53:18):
Was about to say this, she drop an Instagram.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
She hit her hit her, you hit her email address,
so we can't conte.

Speaker 7 (53:29):
Her photography name on it was she put it by.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
The contact asked triple for what.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
B b L Studios.

Speaker 7 (53:42):
Studios.

Speaker 3 (53:44):
Oh my goodness, baby, you are destined for greatness. I
could already tell you're misunderstood. Who was successful?

Speaker 1 (53:51):
Tyler said, this is season one. He was just like
I asked him what do I have to do to
be like the greatest? And he's like, what do you mean?

Speaker 2 (54:01):
And I was just like, I want to be the greatest.
I want to be the biggest. I want to be
the biggest star I can be in this generation. And
he was just like, be prepared to be lonely, be
prepared to be misunderstood. Be prepared to take chances when
no one else sees your vision, and be prepared to
sit in that. It seems like she's going through that
right now and doesn't know what that feels like. But
I tell you every step of my life. I walked

(54:22):
on the hospital when I had a scholarship the Stony
Brooks people said I was stupid. I tried out to
be a free agent for the lines. When I had
a job offer from Hostital, people said I was stupid.
Then I left the NFL and started doing social media
and TV.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
People said I was stupid. But I just had my
own vision and I just didn't care.

Speaker 7 (54:40):
I think you get motivated with people call you stupid.
I think you need people to call you stupid to
get stuff done.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
You know, it's funny.

Speaker 2 (54:49):
Time you want to tell de Val you want to
see the valve do something, telling me can't do it.
That's but that's how most great people.

Speaker 3 (54:56):
I can't get on this plane and go on vacation
with me calling too.

Speaker 7 (55:00):
You can't give me a million dollars stupid.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
See how they do me, guys. I need new funds,
I need a new wife. I'm putting it. Yeah, get
what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (55:11):
Now, You're absolutely right. What I'm saying absolutely right.

Speaker 2 (55:14):
And everything she's feeling that uncomfortable feeling of working on herself,
and no one understands, no one should understands your vision.

Speaker 1 (55:21):
God gave you your vision. If God gave everybody your vision,
it wouldn't be.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
Yours, it wouldn't be your will be doing it.

Speaker 2 (55:27):
The fact that it feels uncomfortable means you are exactly
where you're supposed.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
To be, so right, Yeah, And that discomfort that you
feel is probably people around you who are probably going
to remain stagnant. They're probably existing in a space of
mediocrity that they may be okay with. But I would
say protect your energy as well. Like a part of
the process too, is not trying to convince others to
believe what you believe or to see what you see,
or feel like they can get what you're going to get.

(55:52):
Sometimes you have to be the proof, you have to
be the example. And if there are people who want
to follow suit and eventually to bring it back to
the topic ask you for help because they've seen the
fruits of your labor, then it's up to you to
decide if you want to be that person not to gatekeep,
but instead to help another person alone.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
You need to talk more. That first part you said
was so profound.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
Thanks, Like, seriously, when the spirit moves me, you.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
Know, forget the spirit. Well, don't forget the spirit.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
God, that's all there is no But that was really really.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
Good advice, especially in the beginning, about understanding where you're
supposed to be and leaning into that. A lot of
people run from that you're saying and protecting your energy.
Like that's a good point. People see you and see
your strength, and they may be okay with their mediocrity,
but then when they see you moving beyond, oh they
consider your standard that they have for you, that's when
they get uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
That to me is so profound, Like you need to
talk more.

Speaker 3 (56:47):
People want to hold you. People want to hold you
though to where they get where they see you, where
they first met you. Think about it. We just spoke
about this, and I think we'll probably make this a
podcast episode eventually. But someone had said somewhere. I don't
know if somebody must have sent me the comment or what,
but someone said that they unfollowed you and I because
they felt like we were losing our authenticity and people

(57:11):
were going back and forth in the comment threat or whatever,
and I was just like, Man, are we losing our
authenticity or is it that people just want us to
stay where they met us in that Brooklyn apartment that
is holding the iPhone up, doing the videos with the kids.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
I see those comments. I like y'all betting when y'all
was in the.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
Apartment, right, And it's just like, so, we're not supposed
to grow. The reason we started doing this was in
order to grow and to you know, create a lifestyle
for ourselves and our family, for us as both talents
and being wanted to be actors, being on screen.

Speaker 5 (57:41):
Like.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
The reason we started all of this was to do that.
So the people who can no longer feel like they
can relate to us or they felt like they liked
us better when we were doing those things. Unfortunately, everybody
can't go with you, you know, and you have to
be comfortable knowing your people are going to find you,
and you'll also find like minded individuals who can now
be your new circle of people or your circle of support.

(58:04):
So don't be afraid of that. You know, you have
to be true to who you are and standing your
purpose because everyone's not going to understand it, and not
everybody's going to want to be alone for the ride.
They might want to get off that train. As Josh
talked about trains earlier and trains being parallel and moving alongside,
sometimes you have to turn off and take that other route.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
So good stuff, though, you did that.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Thanks, you really did that. Yeah. But I'm excited when
I hear from someone, you know, at a tender age
of twenty five, who seems to like get it, you know.
I think it's such a blessing because at twenty five,
I didn't know what I was trying to do. I
had an idea, you know.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
But you knew what you were doing.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
I had an idea.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
You was really focus and you just had to get
out of the scarcity mindset.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
That.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Yeah, that about.

Speaker 3 (58:49):
Mindset what people think of you being. You know, when
I told my mom and dad that I was not
going to go away to college for my first semester
because I was conflicted about doing nursing or doing communication,
and I went to middle high school in Brooklyn. I
went to Brooklyn College across the street for a year,
and my mom was like so embarrassed.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
That was mature, though, because for you to be eighteen
and to say, like you were a valedictorian and in
Bethlehem you finished with a ninety something average at Midwood,
And for you to say, I don't care what people think.
I'm going to go to Brooklyn College even though people
expect me to go to like a duke. Yeah, yeah,
that was you saying I'm stepping outside of what y'all
want me to do. So you've been You've been very
profound and very self aware, even from.

Speaker 1 (59:28):
Eighteen giving that.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
Yeah, and I'm looking back now and I'm just like,
that was something that I said. You could go and
drop thirty grand a year on this private institution because
you want people to say, my daughter's going here while
I'm figuring things out to take liberal arts courses, or
I can go across the streets for another year, figure
that shit out. Yeah, get my GPA up and.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Then but imagine your eighteen year old comes to you
and say, hey, I'm gonna save you thirty thousand. I'm
gonna go to this community college while I figure it out,
then get a scholarship to transfer to Hostra. Like you,
I have always been self aware, even the self awareness
for you to be like when people are saying, like
you and Devias staying together.

Speaker 1 (01:00:03):
He's a place football, and you be like, I don't
care what y'all think. Really, you've always been very self.

Speaker 3 (01:00:09):
So he could pay rent, and I could pay rent
to fund somebody else's dream when we could just live
together and focus on the stuff that we want to
focus on.

Speaker 5 (01:00:15):
Like I swear, I didn't even know money was real
until like last year. I was not thinking about how
much college costs. When I was in trible last year,
I was like, damn, oh, money, that's the thing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
That's a thing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Eighty eighty thousand dollars right now to go to college
for four years.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Now they're saying you have to stay for five years,
get a master's to even be bachelor's is nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
Well, I got to spend a half a million dollars
just to be like on a level playing field with
people ought to be replaced by AI, right, And that's
just today.

Speaker 4 (01:00:47):
That's just today.

Speaker 5 (01:00:48):
With the dismantling of the Department of Education and education
being privatized, it's gonna be way get it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:54):
But that's the way it always was supposed to. This
is a whole different podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
But remember we talked about this before the elites created
college for a place for all of their kids to
go and learn how to run their businesses, and all
of the people who weren't elites were supposed to just
learn how to work at those companies. Once they realized
that other people who weren't elites wanted to go to college,
they just write them them prices up and like put
them in debt, put them in debt, make it so

(01:01:19):
expensive that they can't get there, that even if they go,
they're gonna have to job to pay off that education.
They're gonna work for our kids anyway, That's always been man. Man,
we could go podcasts about that.

Speaker 3 (01:01:32):
Look at that. Just from out of that listener letter,
we got to potential podcasts that we can do just
around the overarching topic of just growth, you know, people
meeting you where they are, you know, knowing how to
just work and put your head down and not be
concerned with everybody else. So good luck to you and
your endeavors. And if Triple goes on probation, at least
we know we have someboda, we have somebody else back up.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
We got you. Let me see what.

Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
ZMF ZMF Studios baby were coming the UZMS.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
All right, y'all, if you want to be featured as
a listener letter here on the show, be sure to
email us at the Elisadvice at gmail dot com.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
That's th h E E L L I S A
d V I C E at gmail dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
All right, who wants to kick off moment of truth time?

Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
I got mine?

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
Hopefully this helps people with asking for help. You don't
have to go to help and just beg be beggy, beggy.
You can offer services in exchange for help, like apprenticeship.
This way, you don't have to feel as if you're
owing somebody, because a lot of it is people have
scarcity mentality when you go and ask for help, have

(01:02:43):
a plan, but offer something if you're asking for something,
and even if you're asking for something monetarily, if you
can offer services in the meantime to help that at
least take the guilt office that you're getting something for nothing.
And it was having all of you guys talk about
the mindset of what people go through, no disrespect for
people going through that. I just never had that mindset,
So hearing y'all talk about it made me be like, oh, shoot,

(01:03:05):
people really be thinking that so then that's that's just
never been me.

Speaker 1 (01:03:08):
I've just been the dude like her to jump out
the window. I'm gonna ask for hell, can you help me?

Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
But I understand how people could feel like guilt, you
know what I'm saying, So you know what, I don't want.

Speaker 1 (01:03:16):
To feel guilty. Yeah, can you help me?

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
I can offer these services. I can come clean your
car to you know every week. I can I can
watch your kids. I can is it something for your business?
I can do clerical work. There's always a way to
help someone. So yeah, come with a plan and be yes,
be willing.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
Yes, all right, Matt, what you got I need help?

Speaker 7 (01:03:38):
That's my motive, the truth.

Speaker 6 (01:03:39):
If there's anybody out there that's has experiencing curating galleries, uh,
curating photo books, I'm trying to do it. I don't
know what I'm doing, but I'm trying to keep making
I have exhibits ready to go, but I need help.

Speaker 7 (01:03:54):
On that part. So that's my job.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
Man, there exactly anybody can cure galleries. Help me that out.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Watch watch and I.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Hope hey, whoever's cutting this clip, cut that clips. We'll
posted on social so we can get out there. Because
I don't want that. Just live in the patreon.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
We want that to go, so come on man, Yeah
it works too, Joshua, do we in.

Speaker 8 (01:04:16):
My moment with the truth is just keep asking for help, man.
You you never really know where your help is coming
from and when it will come. People will always people
are everyone's hustling and everybody's trying to get their own
So sometimes people don't have time to help you. But
keep helping, keep asking, and also why you're doing it.
Exhaust all your resources. Make sure you're taking care of
what you need to do so that when your time

(01:04:38):
comes up, you are absolutely prepared to receive that help
and also give and be of service to somebody else.

Speaker 6 (01:04:45):
Stay ready so you don't got to get ready.

Speaker 7 (01:04:46):
There you go, short person.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
I love it, Love it.

Speaker 5 (01:04:51):
You know, learn how to sit in discomfort. You know
that that phrase that goes don't let temporary feelings make
permanent decisions. Yes, when you're asking for help, you might
have to let temporary feelings help you to make permanent
decisions that are good for you. So if you're scared
of feeling judged, you're scared of feeling stupid, you're scared

(01:05:12):
of like what somebody might say, when you ask for help,
just remember that the help that you receive in that moment,
in that moment of discomfort, is going to be a
lasting It's going to make a lasting impact.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
That's life good.

Speaker 3 (01:05:23):
I like that. I think two things came to mind
for me from my mown of truth. The first thing
is initiative. Initiative comes hand in hand with help. If
you're going to ask for help, you have to take
the initiative to say, hey, what's my plan? Am I
coming with a well thought out plan? Maybe I'm not
coming with that, so maybe I need to have advice
or exee guidance from someone. So taking the initiative is
something that people can see, especially when you're going to

(01:05:45):
ask for help, because it's like, you know what, I'm
going to be more inclined to help you because I
see that you have the ambition and you're taking the
initiative to come with a planned and also if you
are in a position to help, pay it forward, Like
that's something that Deval and I do all the time,
Like we think about how much help we've received, not
monetarily per se, but even just people who've supported us,
who've invested in us. We don't take for granted our

(01:06:06):
Patreon gang, who you guys are helping to help us
to do our content and to put things out there
and to help our make our dreams come true. And
we take a responsibility very heavily to pay it forward,
and we do that. So I encourage anyone else who's
in a position to help to pay it forward.

Speaker 6 (01:06:22):
Thank you, Patreon. You're not just helping them, You're helping us, Tooks.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
We love y'all. Patreon gang gang, Gang Gang Gang.

Speaker 3 (01:06:29):
Yes, yes, yes. And I guess if you're not on
Patreon yet, or if you have some friends who are
lingering in the abyss and they're debating about joining Patreon,
they can see Ellis After content, Ellis ever After content,
the After Show, as well as more exclusive Ellis Family content,
and then you can find us, of course on social
media at Ellis ever After. I'm Kadeen, I am I

(01:06:50):
am deval on the.

Speaker 8 (01:06:51):
Score on Matt Ellis, and I am Joshah Duwayne, who
is sick and tired of that young lady who keeps
asking where's the video miss that comes out on Friday?
Name Josh.

Speaker 5 (01:07:06):
We're not gonna put your own blastes, but Friday could
she be acting like we post the podcast just for her.

Speaker 4 (01:07:13):
She's like, guys, I've told you before.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
I don't like the audio.

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):
I'm polightly asked.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
I don't want to listen to our heart. I want
to keep the video.

Speaker 4 (01:07:28):
I'm at trips, the Cool t R I B b Z.
That's cool on everything.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
And if you're listening on Apple Podcasts, be sure to rate,
review and subscribe. Shout out to my man Leonny Green
from Quiet.

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
Oh, and we're going into the fall, y'all, so be
sure to get your vintage. At this point collector's item
Dead Ass Hoodies. They're going back on sale, so don't
forget to grab yours in the merch section. And hopefully
soon we can have some Ellis ever After merch out.
We just want to make sure it's perfect for y'all.
You know what I'm saying, It's gonna be fire.

Speaker 5 (01:08:03):
Got Ellis ever After is an iHeartMedia podcast. It's hosted
by Kadeen and Deval Ellis. It's produced by Triple Video,
Production by Joshua Duane and Matthew Ellis, video editing by
Lashawan Rowe.

Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
To Gift, Hoping and Waiting