November 1, 2023 • 28 mins
An explosive secret from a Greenwich Street neighbor reveals that Elma’s home environment was different than her cousin described it. An unconventional testimony takes Colden by surprise, and he’s powerless over the barrage of doctors that Burr and Hamilton call to the witness stand. Colden turns the jury’s attention to Levi’s brother Ezra Weeks.
Erased: The Murder of Elma Sands is released weekly, every Wednesday, wherever you get your podcasts. To hear all six episodes right now, ad-free, subscribe to Lava for Good+ on Apple Podcasts.
Erased: The Murder of Elma Sands is a production of Lava for Good™ Podcasts in association with Signal Co. No1.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Alison Flom. Welcome back to Erased. In the
last episode, Colden disproved the theory that Elma could have
taken her own life. He proved that there was a
struggle with someone else leading up to her death. Witnesses
heard screams of murder and help me from the area
of the Manhattan Well. Other witnesses placed Levi at the
(00:21):
murder site, potentially with his brother, who built it on
commission for Aaron Burr's company. So Coldon's task was just
to defend his version of events against whatever strategy his
opponents had in store. At the beginning of day two
of this trial, there was an eagerness in the courtroom
to get this done, to see justice prevail. To the public,
the crowds that showed up in the cold to wait
(00:42):
outside the courthouse through another trial day, to nearly everyone
in New York, seeing Levi weeks charged with murder would
restore a sense of peace. It would help relieve at
least a little bit of the pain that seeing Alma's
battered corpse had caused. Alexander Hamilton and Erinberg were busy
(01:02):
through the night. They came back caffeinated in fresh suits
with a new plan.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Order in the chambers. Order good morning, good morning shirt.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Once everyone settled in the defense lawyers called Joseph Watkins,
the Rings neighbor on Greenwich Street, back up to the stand.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Good morning everybody. Oh you look well rested, mister Hamilton.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I feel good. Mister Watkins. You've got a lot to
tell us. Yesterday you testified for the prosecution. I should
Did you said you found Elma's body in the well
and laid her out on your jacket? Is that right?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Exactly?
Speaker 5 (01:44):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
And what was your relationship to the victim at the
time of her death?
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I knew Elma for years, for as long as she
lived at the Rings.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
And how do you know the Rings?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I share a whole wall in my house with them,
So you and.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
The Rings essentially live in the same house right now.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
No, two different houses, different addresses, different entryways. They're too
A eight. I'm to ten. They were a boarding house
in Millinery. We're a single family rowhouse, but it's one
big structure.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Do you need a floor plan of the Rings in
Watkinson's houses? I have one if that.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
Might help, that's all right, coldon, No one really cares
about floor plans. Mister Watkins, who do.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
You live with?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
My wife Liz, my daughter Betsy, and our cat and
rose Lynn. I call them my three queens.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
That's sweet. Did you and your family ever overhear Elma
in the back bedroom on the second floor of the
Rings house? What?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
That's very specific, an alarmingly specific question. Actually, you might
remember in episode one, the defense lawyers asked Catherine where
Elma and Levi slept. It was a distinct and unprompted
question about the back room on the second floor in
the house, particularly the thin plaster partition that it's shared
(02:58):
with the neighbor, Joseph Watkins's house, so they knew exactly
what Watkins was about to say.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
That room happens to be closest to my bedroom, mister Hamilton,
So we'd hear Elma a lot?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
What types of sounds did Alma make? Objection relevance a
better question, actually, mister Watkins. In the months before Elma died,
did you hear anything unusual?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Well, i'd hear getting dressed, tripping on a stockings, singing
to herself.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Singing to herself. That's what happy people do.
Speaker 6 (03:31):
That's also what hysterical women do, mister Watkins.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Can you tell us about last September.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Last September, height of the pandemic, tons of people dying
from the fever, New York was quiet. I'd spent long
days in the house quarantining.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
And what did you hear coming from Elma's room during
that time?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I didn't expect to hear anything because I thought all
the women in the Rings house had gone up to
New Cornwall.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
But Elma stayed home with all the men.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
You got that right. And when I heard that, I
told my wife. You know what I said to her.
I said, somebody's gonna ruin that girl.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Yes, continue, mister Watkins.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
One night my wall started shaking, thumping, like Elma's bed
was moving on the other side. My wife and I
listened closely.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
What did you hear, mister Watkins?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
You want to know what I heard? I heard Elma.
I heard Elma wintern and what else?
Speaker 7 (04:32):
Well?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I heard Elias ring. He was grunting and scolding objection
corner in the chambers.
Speaker 8 (04:43):
Mister Watkins, did you say you heard Elias ring in
Elma's bedroom?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
That's right, your honor. I heard Elias ring ruining Elma sad,
Oh God over again.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
This moment was earth shattering for Coldon's case and for Thren,
for everyone.
Speaker 9 (05:01):
Mister is flying your honor.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
If what Joseph Watkins claim to under oath was true.
Elias Ring repeatedly raped his niece, Elma Sands in his
home in the months before she was murdered. Order stop order,
And while all the evidence did point away from Alma
taking her own life on that December night, this testimony
(05:24):
painted a very different picture of what was happening in
the boarding house and what Elma's life may have actually
been like. Obviously, this caused chaos, as the defense lawyers
intended the jury's attention turned towards Elias Ring, away from
Levi Weeks, Your honor.
Speaker 10 (05:42):
There's no evidence to suggest Elma and Elias Ring were
engaging in anything sectional.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Elias Ring was inflicting non consensual sex on Alma Sands
right before she died, Elias tortured her and drove her
to suicide.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
That's it, mister Watkins.
Speaker 10 (05:57):
You probably heard Levi Weeks and Elma room they began
an intimate relationship during that period of quarantine.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Uh Ah, it wasn't Levi, Sir. I'd recognize Elias Ring's
voice anywhere. It was definitely an Elias Ring.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Would you do this?
Speaker 10 (06:13):
You're you're speculated, Yes, speculation overruled.
Speaker 8 (06:17):
This is constable. Please remove mister Ring from the chambers
yet again? How does he keep getting in here? Just
removed him now, silence, mister Ring.
Speaker 6 (06:34):
I will, mister Watkins, how many times did you overhear
this improper intercourse between mister Ring and Elma?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Approximately oh nine or ten fourteen times? When Levi Weeks
was out of the house, mister Ring would.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Slither right there and you hear the violence.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Right, I'd hear Alma cry herself to sleep.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
And this continued until Catherine Ring came home to the city.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Once Catherine came back, I never heard Elias and Elma's
roam again.
Speaker 6 (07:15):
Because Elias was behaving himself better around his.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Wife, Your honor, a question from the jury. It's for
Catherine Ring.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
Is that okay?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think so?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Catherine? Is this the first you're hearing of your husband's deviance?
Speaker 5 (07:29):
She doesn't have to answer that, Actually she does.
Speaker 11 (07:32):
Catherine, Yes, this is the first I'm hearing about it
because it is not true.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 9 (07:38):
Uncle Elias would never Yes, it's ridiculous. My neighbor and
former friend.
Speaker 11 (07:44):
Joseph Watkins has just testified to something false. And yes
it's the first I'm hearing it because it's Catherine Foss.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
While Elma was alive? Did you protect her from danger?
Speaker 9 (07:56):
What sort of danger did you.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Protect Elma from? Your husband?
Speaker 11 (07:59):
My husban is not the one she needed protection from.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
Elias Ring is not on trial.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (08:04):
Elias Ring drove the victim to suicide.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
You made that up, mister Burton.
Speaker 9 (08:08):
I protected Alma perfectly. My husband, Elias protected her as well.
Speaker 11 (08:12):
Alma was safe with us until leeve weeks.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Mister Watkins, is Catherine Ring trustworthy?
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Ben's what you mean by trustworthy?
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Do you trust her? Do you believe that she was
actually ignorant of her husband's behavior?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
You know, I never know what to believe when it
comes to women, Like I always tell my wife, women
speak their own language, and I don't understand it.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Can I talk to your wife, mister Watkins?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Why Caldon my wife is not here, sir?
Speaker 10 (08:45):
And why is that Alma's next door neighbor seems like
a keyywitness in her murder trial.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Liz couldn't make it today. She provided a written testimony.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
How does that work.
Speaker 10 (08:55):
She wrote a little note for you to bring to court,
your honor, This is getting out of hand.
Speaker 8 (08:58):
Mister Colden in advance that Elizabeth Watkins would be unable
to appear in court, and we prepared accordingly.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
And why can't she appear in court?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Her breasts have been very sore infested for several weeks. Wait,
I don't know exactly what's wrong, but she's in pain.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Well I need to question her.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I can speak for my wife on any outstanding points.
We both heard Elma Sands being ruined.
Speaker 8 (09:25):
No need to speak for her, mister Watkins. Mister Coldon
should find her written testimony comprehensive and sufficient enough.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
All right, without further ado. Testimony of Elizabeth see Watkins.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Mark you read it, please absolutely.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Your honor. Testimony of Elizabeth C.
Speaker 12 (09:49):
Watkins, collected by Chief Justice John Lansing, Alexander Hamilton and
Yours truly, twenty eighth of March eighteen hundred at the
Watkins residence.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
Wait wait, wait, wait, leave your honor.
Speaker 10 (10:00):
You went with the Defense Council to collect a testimony
without my knowledge, the result of which could influence my
entire case.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
That just doesn't seem right.
Speaker 8 (10:09):
This is how the system works, mister Coldon, according to
whom we had to adjust because.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Of her breasts.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
So just like that, precedents were being set that would
remain in the system through this moment today. It was
decided then that written affidavits were admissible evidence. Thus Colden
couldn't question a key witness about the Elias allegations because
Hamilton and Burr found a loophole, and once again he
was out maneuvered.
Speaker 12 (10:36):
Catherine Ring the hat maker, chats with me about her
borders from the day Levi Weeks moved in.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
Catherine spoke highly of him. What we're not actually admitting
this written testimony? Are we?
Speaker 12 (10:47):
Supposedly Levi is the best border to aweight Greenwich ever had,
Your honor, there are discrepancies and lies all over this testimony.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Let's just hear the whole thing.
Speaker 8 (10:57):
Coldon Clerk, Wait minute, your honor, relax cold This is
inadmissible evidence.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I'll be the judge of that.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
This is ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Please sit down, mister Colton.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
The judge said, keep your pants on, mister Colton.
Speaker 12 (11:11):
Sorry, your honor, this part has a bunch of stuff
crossed out and written in the margins. Okay, new paragraph
missus Watkins says, the first time I saw Alma Sands,
I remember thinking that sweet miserable girl.
Speaker 5 (11:25):
Won't make it to thirty in New York. Objection, What
could that possibly mean?
Speaker 4 (11:29):
You can't object to her written testimony? Coldon stop interrupted, This.
Speaker 10 (11:33):
Just doesn't seem fair, you're honor clerk. I wasn't there
when this testimony was collected.
Speaker 8 (11:38):
Because it's a testimony for the defense's case.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Clerk.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
Missus Watkins continues.
Speaker 12 (11:44):
When I heard the rumor that Elma Sands ended her
own life, I felt relieved for her.
Speaker 10 (11:48):
We have heard countless testimonies about how cheerful and happy
and joyous Alma Sands was.
Speaker 6 (11:53):
And now we're hearing about how miserable and suicidal she
was because she was being repeatedly raped by Elias ring
the two sides to every Sorry bud.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
You gentlemen, still have a witness on the stand.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
Mister Watkins. How about your daughter Betsy? She was close
to Alma? Right?
Speaker 5 (12:12):
I don't think they were close.
Speaker 9 (12:13):
Yes, Alma hardly knew Betsy.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Betsy and Elma would sitting on a stooferoles just chatting away.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Let's bring her up in hopes of enhancing this dramatic
testimony and continuing to paint a picture of Elma as miserable.
The defense called Joseph's daughter Betsy Watkins and described her
as a friend of the deceased acquaintance.
Speaker 9 (12:36):
Excuse me, daddy, it's my true.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Oh I like it up here.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Good morning, miss Watkins.
Speaker 13 (12:45):
It's Betsy to you, mister Hamilton.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Uh Bessy. Alexander characterized Elma's sands for the jury. Who
was Alma?
Speaker 13 (12:55):
She was a melancholy, depressed, pale weirdo, not in a
mean way. She was kind of like a baby goat.
You know, I knew she wasn't a virgin objection?
Speaker 5 (13:05):
What is she talking about?
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Betsy? On the day Elma disappeared, did you see her?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (13:11):
I saw her almost every day.
Speaker 6 (13:12):
What was she doing that day, December twenty second?
Speaker 13 (13:16):
She was looking in the mirror, tying a handkerchief around
her neck in different styles?
Speaker 6 (13:21):
How did she appear to you?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Prettier than usual?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I guess she had lipstick on.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Finally, so I.
Speaker 6 (13:26):
Meant, how did she seem disposition wise?
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (13:31):
Stirr rest, mister burr.
Speaker 13 (13:32):
Super stressed yet like pale, nervous, kind of.
Speaker 6 (13:36):
Breathy like she might be on her way to commit suicide,
objection leading the witness.
Speaker 13 (13:41):
I've never seen someone on their way to commit suicide.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
But she didn't look like she was on her way
to get married, right, A person getting married would look happy, excited.
Speaker 13 (13:51):
Well, to be honest, I've never seen anyone on their
way to get married either, But if I.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
Had to guess, that'sy miss Watkins.
Speaker 13 (13:58):
Aaron, mister Burr.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
Did Elmo look frightened that day? Or did she look happy?
Or did she look sad?
Speaker 14 (14:08):
None of those things?
Speaker 6 (14:09):
Then? How did Elmo look? Betsy?
Speaker 13 (14:12):
She looked kind of cry when I saw her, But honestly,
after Catherine left for the quarantine and then came back,
Alma always looks sad.
Speaker 14 (14:20):
To me.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
She was sad and her sadness took her life. Not
LEVI weeks.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
What I spent all of yesterday proving that Elma was happy.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
To override Coldon's witnesses, the defense then called four expert witnesses, doctors,
real doctors to one up Coldon on the science, not.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
Dentists who once read a book on autopsies to confirm
that Elma Sans committed suicide.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
I've already proven that Alma wasn't alone when she died.
She screamed, murder.
Speaker 6 (14:50):
Can you stop interrupting? Coldon, there was no.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Suicide, so the defense kept bringing up the theory that
Alma took her own life, even though this was a
try murder and the coroner's jury had declared this a
murder months before, and although their job was to determine
a person's cause of death, the coroner's jury was not
a jury, and there were no coroners involved, and the
(15:15):
defense lawyers knew how this process went. The coroner's jury
was a guy in a room, not a doctor, but
he called himself a coroner who paid his friends and
colleagues to come in and decide how the dead person died.
And whatever they decided when they gathered around and looked
at the corpse became the findings for the case. And
(15:35):
in this case, the coroner's jury examined Alma's body twelve
days after it was found, which was eleven days after
she went missing, and determined as a group of pals
and non medical professionals that her cause of death was
indeed murder. And then they probably went to lunch, and
the case for Elma Sans relied on the decision that
(15:56):
they came to. On that January afternoon, Hamilton and Burr
called doctor Nicholas Romayne.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
What did you see, doctor?
Speaker 15 (16:08):
I saw a girl's body, mister Burr, super dead.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Who was actually doctor David Hosac's mentor and former teacher. Truly,
everyone knew each other except coldon.
Speaker 6 (16:20):
Any specific observations about the corpse.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
Oh not much.
Speaker 15 (16:24):
Scratches, bruising on the knee and that's all right, yeah, scars,
algrove skin standard stuff.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
Hold on, is it standard for a young girl to
be covered in scars?
Speaker 15 (16:35):
I don't know many young girls, mister Colton, but Elma
skin was all blistered and weather beaten in addition to
the injuries.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
And then, for even further reinforcement, they called New York's
most elite doctors up to the stand, first doctor McIntosh,
then doctor Prince Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton knew the
system like the backs of their hands because they helped
create it. They called New York's most elite and respected
(17:06):
physicians up to the stand. And these guys were all
friends and colleagues. They were on the boards of each
other's foundations, starting medical colleges together the defense lawyers knew
exactly what these doctors would tell the jury. In fact,
they probably all planted out together at the pub.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
I noticed four contusions on her breast, like she'd been grabbed.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
But doctor Macintosh, the injuries on the corpse were minimal, right, Yeah,
she was just scraped up from bouncing around in the
Manhattan well for eleven days, right, not from violence inflicted
by another person.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
Objection.
Speaker 10 (17:40):
Doctor The Corner's jury unanimously ruled this a murder when
they saw Alma's body.
Speaker 5 (17:44):
Yeah, but none of those guys are corners.
Speaker 10 (17:47):
So you genuinely believe Alma Sance died by drowning.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
There was a spoonful of water in her lungs. Water
in her lungs.
Speaker 6 (17:57):
So what does that mean, Doctor Romaine?
Speaker 7 (17:59):
It means and she was still breathing when she hit
the water. It means she threw herself in the left objection, Nope.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Continue.
Speaker 7 (18:07):
As soon as I saw Alma's body, I thought she
probably took her own life.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
She was pretty, but she was ugly, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
Of course, you're being very clear.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
It's hard to believe she wasn't pregnant. I thought for
sure we'd find a baby when we opened her up, Doctor.
Speaker 10 (18:23):
Romaine, what about the row of bruises on Elma's neck
and breast? What did you make of those? I'll rephrase.
Could the bruises on Elma's neck and breast have been
caused by someone's fingers?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Hmm?
Speaker 7 (18:34):
I see skin that's been gangreened all the time at
the Almshouse. The swollen, dark tissue could have been from anything.
Speaker 10 (18:39):
I wasn't asking about gangreen doctor, I was asking about
these specific bruises being caused by someone else's hands.
Speaker 7 (18:46):
I've already said, based on what I've observed, I think
Alma San's committed suicide.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
That's all I can tell you.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Wonderful And then, in the spirit of thoroughness and scientific proof,
the defense lawyers recalled their friend David.
Speaker 16 (19:01):
Hi again, everyone, energy isn't here is amazing legend.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
It's because of you. You ready, Doc hit me yesterday
You've testified that Almo's body might have been injured by
another person? Is that correct?
Speaker 14 (19:17):
Yes, that's what I said yesterday.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
And would you like to add to that statement?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Now?
Speaker 16 (19:23):
Well, I'm of two minds here, you guys. I stand
by my previous testimony. I mean that was a battered corpse,
injured and mangled and bad. But remember I didn't even
see the body until the coroner's jury, so a lot
could have happened before then.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
So what does that mean? Doctor?
Speaker 16 (19:41):
The coroner's jury met several days after Elma was pulled
out of the water, but before that, missus Ring displayed
the body in a box on her property. People were
touching it, handling it, moving it around to examine it.
So so it's possible that the neck got broken posthumously.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
Because of Catherine Ring's calculated, manipulative decisions. Elma's neck was broken,
not because of violence or choking. Catherine made this look
like a murder.
Speaker 15 (20:15):
Mister Colby objection.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
Everyone was so careful, LEVI was fraided. Catherine could not
have bruised the corpse.
Speaker 14 (20:22):
I disagree, mister Colden Corner.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
Thank you doctor. Nothing further.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yes, they literally tried to blame Catherine, and these details
were completely different from what doctor Hoseak had testified to
the day before.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
Doctor Hosek, do you often change your mind overnight?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Maybe the defense lawyers got to speak to their friend
during the overnight adjournment and convince him to change his testimony.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Mister Colden, Knowledge is fickle, but facts are.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Not objection badgering our witness.
Speaker 10 (20:54):
Again, my witness, Doctor Hosek, did you sit on the
coroner's journey which unanimously voted that Alma Sans was murdered?
I did, sir, So you said, as a member of
New York's trusted coroner's jury, that Alma Sans's cause of
death was murdered by violence? Right, yes, and yesterday you
(21:15):
stood by that decision.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I did.
Speaker 10 (21:17):
But today you're suddenly abandoning those facts, suddenly suggesting Alma's
death could have been a suicide. You changed your mind
between yesterday and today, right, I just want to make
sure you're as flaky as you've seen Coldin.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
Can you cease harassing our witness and at least pred
tend to be professional.
Speaker 16 (21:36):
There's a lot of new information now. I didn't realize
Alma's life was so traumatic.
Speaker 11 (21:40):
How was my cousin's life traumatic her chaotic sex relations alone?
Speaker 10 (21:46):
How are alma sex relations relevant to the scientific autopsy
of her body?
Speaker 16 (21:49):
Doctor Hosek, I have new insight now, mister Colden. Science
is like that, sometimes it builds on itself.
Speaker 10 (21:57):
I have nothing further for this witness step down doctor Hosak.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
And for their next trick, the defense called Timothy Crane
to the stand another short term border at two o
eight Grenache Street.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Mister Crane will get right into it. You're personally acquainted
with both Levi and as were Weeks.
Speaker 15 (22:15):
Right, yeah, yeah, I work for Ezra Weeks and uh listen,
Levi and Ezra are both good men.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
How would you characterize Levi Weeks specifically?
Speaker 15 (22:26):
Honest, hardworking, well rounded? Yeah, yeah, all integrity all the time.
Speaker 9 (22:34):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 4 (22:35):
And how about Alma Sands?
Speaker 15 (22:38):
Unstable, insecure, melancholy, hard to talk to, always chasing a high.
You know, that's why I was never attracted to her
or anything.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
So Elma was suicidal?
Speaker 5 (22:51):
Perhaps objection? There's overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Speaker 8 (22:55):
Mister Crane provided a jury with specific examples.
Speaker 15 (22:59):
Well, be honest, sir, I didn't get to know Elma
that well exactly.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
That's okay, Timothy. Just tell us how you know she
was depressed?
Speaker 5 (23:07):
You're honor a question for Katherine Ring.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Objection?
Speaker 8 (23:09):
He keeps interrupted, Yes, mister Colton, make it quick, coldon
missus Ring.
Speaker 10 (23:14):
How many days did this witness Timothy Crane overlap with
Elma in.
Speaker 9 (23:17):
Your home less than two week, literally want week. He
doesn't know anything almost so why did they get to
ask him what? I genuinely believe?
Speaker 11 (23:25):
It was eight days, sir, when he was between accommodations,
a little bit before Christmas.
Speaker 10 (23:30):
And Alma was murdered on the twenty second of December.
This witness didn't know Elm at all whatsoever?
Speaker 4 (23:35):
I disagreed. This witness knew Elma for several days before
she killed herself, and he has valuable insight if you'd
ever let him get to testify.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
All right, continue, mister crane.
Speaker 15 (23:45):
Okay, So one night we called a doctor to the house.
What Ford Russell had hemorrhoids and he wanted Perudian bark.
It was me, Russell and Elma in the parlor.
Speaker 14 (23:59):
No try sleeping on your stomach.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Okay, Am I dying? Doctor?
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Just tell me so.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Far from it, sir.
Speaker 14 (24:07):
Just an unflamed irritation of your bumhole. I've seen worse bumholes.
In fact, I've seen your bumhole look worse.
Speaker 9 (24:15):
Do you want another whiskey, Russell or tea?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Maybe I'm a whiskey. I'm dying and these are my
final breaths.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Don't bother.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
He's knocked out.
Speaker 14 (24:30):
All right, kids, I'm out of here. Keep his feet elevated.
Speaker 9 (24:34):
Oh should I grab more books for under his feet?
Speaker 14 (24:36):
Perfect? Yes, thank you.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Doctor before you go.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Yes, I'm do you buy any chance?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Have any laud in them in your trunk?
Speaker 14 (24:47):
Of course I have? Every doctor has them.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Could I have just a little?
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Please?
Speaker 14 (24:53):
Are you congested? Coughing? Experiencing physical pain?
Speaker 5 (24:57):
Wait?
Speaker 14 (24:57):
What's a lot?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I take it sometime?
Speaker 14 (25:00):
Oh you've had it before?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah? I love it.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
You love laudanum?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, I dig a whole vile of it if I could.
Speaker 14 (25:08):
Don't joke like that, Alma, too much laudinum would kill you.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
So the idea of overdosing on drugs was funny to Alma.
Speaker 6 (25:18):
Did the doctor give her the drugs?
Speaker 15 (25:20):
He put a few drops under her tongue right before
he left, but he wouldn't give her the file.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
And mister Crane, you didn't try the laudinum.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Right, why would I?
Speaker 15 (25:30):
I wasn't sick.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
Do people your age tend to crave full bottles of
heavy medication.
Speaker 15 (25:35):
An intense opiate for no reason?
Speaker 5 (25:38):
No?
Speaker 15 (25:38):
Most people my age are happy.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
So almost drug use suggests she was in a dark
place mentally just before she died. Was that right?
Speaker 15 (25:48):
If she was experiencing unwanted intercourse by Elias ring and
she was craving excess quantities of laudanum, Yeah, yeah, I'd
say Alma was in a bad spot.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
So this kid lived in the same house as Elma
for just over a week, but he characterized her as opiate, addicted, depressed,
and suicidal. And then he made Levi sound like an
absolute angel. But did you hear that key detail that
Coldon missed? This witness worked for Ezra Weeks. Of course
he'd say anything for the Week's brothers. He was on
(26:20):
their payroll. The defense lawyers overwhelmed the jury with as
many theories and stories as possible. Each of their arguments
had only one or two witnesses to substantiate it, and
then they'd move on to a new, distracting allegation. But
it was working. Midway through day two, the jury's attention
was far away from Levi Weeks. So can you blame
(26:44):
Coldon for missing key details? He had to put out
so many fires that his own argument got lost in
the sauce. This case was supposed to be simple, and
justice was supposed to be clear, but Colden couldn't begin
to disprove everything his opponents were throwing at him, and
the jury, Hamilton and Burr shifted gears.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
After this, we'll call our next witness, our most important
witness so.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
Far, all the witnesses are important.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Ezra week to talk about what a good guy Leave
I was. So what really happened on December seventeen ninety
next episode, We're one step closer to finding out. Stay
with us erased. The Murder of Elma Sans is a
(27:33):
production of Lunch Plans and Lava for Good Podcasts in
association with Signal Company Number One. The show is narrated,
written and produced by me Alison Flamm. It stars Alison
Williams as Catherine Ring, Tony Goldwyn as Alexander Hamilton, Barry
Scheck as Aaron Burr, and Jason Flamm as Judge John Dancing.
(27:55):
Our executive producers are Alison Williams, Jason Flamm, and Kevin Mortis.
This show is produced by Goldhalk Productions. The show is
sound designed and mixed by Steve Bond. The music is
composed and performed by Sasha Putnam. The producer for Goldhalk
is Andy Goddard, with production management from Emma Hearn, the
(28:16):
executive producer for goldhalk Is John Scott Dryden. You can
listen to every episode of Erased the Murder of Alma
Sands right now ad free by subscribing to Lava for
Good plus on Apple Podcasts. You can also follow the
show on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Lava for
Good and For more information on this story, plus a
complete list of our incredible cast, visit Lava Forgod dot com.
(28:39):
Slash Erased
Hi, I'm Alison Flom. Welcome back to Erased. In the
last episode, Colden disproved the theory that Elma could have
taken her own life. He proved that there was a
struggle with someone else leading up to her death. Witnesses
heard screams of murder and help me from the area
of the Manhattan Well. Other witnesses placed Levi at the
(00:21):
murder site, potentially with his brother, who built it on
commission for Aaron Burr's company. So Coldon's task was just
to defend his version of events against whatever strategy his
opponents had in store. At the beginning of day two
of this trial, there was an eagerness in the courtroom
to get this done, to see justice prevail. To the public,
the crowds that showed up in the cold to wait
(00:42):
outside the courthouse through another trial day, to nearly everyone
in New York, seeing Levi weeks charged with murder would
restore a sense of peace. It would help relieve at
least a little bit of the pain that seeing Alma's
battered corpse had caused. Alexander Hamilton and Erinberg were busy
(01:02):
through the night. They came back caffeinated in fresh suits
with a new plan.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Order in the chambers. Order good morning, good morning shirt.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Once everyone settled in the defense lawyers called Joseph Watkins,
the Rings neighbor on Greenwich Street, back up to the stand.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Good morning everybody. Oh you look well rested, mister Hamilton.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I feel good. Mister Watkins. You've got a lot to
tell us. Yesterday you testified for the prosecution. I should
Did you said you found Elma's body in the well
and laid her out on your jacket? Is that right?
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Exactly?
Speaker 5 (01:44):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
And what was your relationship to the victim at the
time of her death?
Speaker 5 (01:49):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:49):
I knew Elma for years, for as long as she
lived at the Rings.
Speaker 4 (01:52):
And how do you know the Rings?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I share a whole wall in my house with them,
So you and.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
The Rings essentially live in the same house right now.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
No, two different houses, different addresses, different entryways. They're too
A eight. I'm to ten. They were a boarding house
in Millinery. We're a single family rowhouse, but it's one
big structure.
Speaker 5 (02:10):
Do you need a floor plan of the Rings in
Watkinson's houses? I have one if that.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
Might help, that's all right, coldon, No one really cares
about floor plans. Mister Watkins, who do.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
You live with?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
My wife Liz, my daughter Betsy, and our cat and
rose Lynn. I call them my three queens.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
That's sweet. Did you and your family ever overhear Elma
in the back bedroom on the second floor of the
Rings house? What?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
That's very specific, an alarmingly specific question. Actually, you might
remember in episode one, the defense lawyers asked Catherine where
Elma and Levi slept. It was a distinct and unprompted
question about the back room on the second floor in
the house, particularly the thin plaster partition that it's shared
(02:58):
with the neighbor, Joseph Watkins's house, so they knew exactly
what Watkins was about to say.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
That room happens to be closest to my bedroom, mister Hamilton,
So we'd hear Elma a lot?
Speaker 4 (03:11):
What types of sounds did Alma make? Objection relevance a
better question, actually, mister Watkins. In the months before Elma died,
did you hear anything unusual?
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Well, i'd hear getting dressed, tripping on a stockings, singing
to herself.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
Singing to herself. That's what happy people do.
Speaker 6 (03:31):
That's also what hysterical women do, mister Watkins.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Can you tell us about last September.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Last September, height of the pandemic, tons of people dying
from the fever, New York was quiet. I'd spent long
days in the house quarantining.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
And what did you hear coming from Elma's room during
that time?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I didn't expect to hear anything because I thought all
the women in the Rings house had gone up to
New Cornwall.
Speaker 4 (03:58):
But Elma stayed home with all the men.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
You got that right. And when I heard that, I
told my wife. You know what I said to her.
I said, somebody's gonna ruin that girl.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
Yes, continue, mister Watkins.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
One night my wall started shaking, thumping, like Elma's bed
was moving on the other side. My wife and I
listened closely.
Speaker 4 (04:23):
What did you hear, mister Watkins?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
You want to know what I heard? I heard Elma.
I heard Elma wintern and what else?
Speaker 7 (04:32):
Well?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
I heard Elias ring. He was grunting and scolding objection
corner in the chambers.
Speaker 8 (04:43):
Mister Watkins, did you say you heard Elias ring in
Elma's bedroom?
Speaker 3 (04:48):
That's right, your honor. I heard Elias ring ruining Elma sad,
Oh God over again.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
This moment was earth shattering for Coldon's case and for Thren,
for everyone.
Speaker 9 (05:01):
Mister is flying your honor.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
If what Joseph Watkins claim to under oath was true.
Elias Ring repeatedly raped his niece, Elma Sands in his
home in the months before she was murdered. Order stop order,
And while all the evidence did point away from Alma
taking her own life on that December night, this testimony
(05:24):
painted a very different picture of what was happening in
the boarding house and what Elma's life may have actually
been like. Obviously, this caused chaos, as the defense lawyers
intended the jury's attention turned towards Elias Ring, away from
Levi Weeks, Your honor.
Speaker 10 (05:42):
There's no evidence to suggest Elma and Elias Ring were
engaging in anything sectional.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
Elias Ring was inflicting non consensual sex on Alma Sands
right before she died, Elias tortured her and drove her
to suicide.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
That's it, mister Watkins.
Speaker 10 (05:57):
You probably heard Levi Weeks and Elma room they began
an intimate relationship during that period of quarantine.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Uh Ah, it wasn't Levi, Sir. I'd recognize Elias Ring's
voice anywhere. It was definitely an Elias Ring.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
Would you do this?
Speaker 10 (06:13):
You're you're speculated, Yes, speculation overruled.
Speaker 8 (06:17):
This is constable. Please remove mister Ring from the chambers
yet again? How does he keep getting in here? Just
removed him now, silence, mister Ring.
Speaker 6 (06:34):
I will, mister Watkins, how many times did you overhear
this improper intercourse between mister Ring and Elma?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
Approximately oh nine or ten fourteen times? When Levi Weeks
was out of the house, mister Ring would.
Speaker 4 (06:59):
Slither right there and you hear the violence.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
Right, I'd hear Alma cry herself to sleep.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
And this continued until Catherine Ring came home to the city.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
That's right.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
Once Catherine came back, I never heard Elias and Elma's
roam again.
Speaker 6 (07:15):
Because Elias was behaving himself better around his.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Wife, Your honor, a question from the jury. It's for
Catherine Ring.
Speaker 5 (07:22):
Is that okay?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I think so?
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Catherine? Is this the first you're hearing of your husband's deviance?
Speaker 5 (07:29):
She doesn't have to answer that, Actually she does.
Speaker 11 (07:32):
Catherine, Yes, this is the first I'm hearing about it
because it is not true.
Speaker 5 (07:37):
It's ridiculous.
Speaker 9 (07:38):
Uncle Elias would never Yes, it's ridiculous. My neighbor and
former friend.
Speaker 11 (07:44):
Joseph Watkins has just testified to something false. And yes
it's the first I'm hearing it because it's Catherine Foss.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
While Elma was alive? Did you protect her from danger?
Speaker 9 (07:56):
What sort of danger did you.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Protect Elma from? Your husband?
Speaker 11 (07:59):
My husban is not the one she needed protection from.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
Elias Ring is not on trial.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 6 (08:04):
Elias Ring drove the victim to suicide.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
You made that up, mister Burton.
Speaker 9 (08:08):
I protected Alma perfectly. My husband, Elias protected her as well.
Speaker 11 (08:12):
Alma was safe with us until leeve weeks.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
Mister Watkins, is Catherine Ring trustworthy?
Speaker 3 (08:21):
Ben's what you mean by trustworthy?
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Do you trust her? Do you believe that she was
actually ignorant of her husband's behavior?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
You know, I never know what to believe when it
comes to women, Like I always tell my wife, women
speak their own language, and I don't understand it.
Speaker 5 (08:39):
Can I talk to your wife, mister Watkins?
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Why Caldon my wife is not here, sir?
Speaker 10 (08:45):
And why is that Alma's next door neighbor seems like
a keyywitness in her murder trial.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Liz couldn't make it today. She provided a written testimony.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
How does that work.
Speaker 10 (08:55):
She wrote a little note for you to bring to court,
your honor, This is getting out of hand.
Speaker 8 (08:58):
Mister Colden in advance that Elizabeth Watkins would be unable
to appear in court, and we prepared accordingly.
Speaker 5 (09:06):
And why can't she appear in court?
Speaker 3 (09:08):
Her breasts have been very sore infested for several weeks. Wait,
I don't know exactly what's wrong, but she's in pain.
Speaker 5 (09:17):
Well I need to question her.
Speaker 3 (09:19):
I can speak for my wife on any outstanding points.
We both heard Elma Sands being ruined.
Speaker 8 (09:25):
No need to speak for her, mister Watkins. Mister Coldon
should find her written testimony comprehensive and sufficient enough.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
All right, without further ado. Testimony of Elizabeth see Watkins.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Mark you read it, please absolutely.
Speaker 5 (09:43):
Your honor. Testimony of Elizabeth C.
Speaker 12 (09:49):
Watkins, collected by Chief Justice John Lansing, Alexander Hamilton and
Yours truly, twenty eighth of March eighteen hundred at the
Watkins residence.
Speaker 5 (09:58):
Wait wait, wait, wait, leave your honor.
Speaker 10 (10:00):
You went with the Defense Council to collect a testimony
without my knowledge, the result of which could influence my
entire case.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
That just doesn't seem right.
Speaker 8 (10:09):
This is how the system works, mister Coldon, according to
whom we had to adjust because.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Of her breasts.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
So just like that, precedents were being set that would
remain in the system through this moment today. It was
decided then that written affidavits were admissible evidence. Thus Colden
couldn't question a key witness about the Elias allegations because
Hamilton and Burr found a loophole, and once again he
was out maneuvered.
Speaker 12 (10:36):
Catherine Ring the hat maker, chats with me about her
borders from the day Levi Weeks moved in.
Speaker 5 (10:42):
Catherine spoke highly of him. What we're not actually admitting
this written testimony? Are we?
Speaker 12 (10:47):
Supposedly Levi is the best border to aweight Greenwich ever had,
Your honor, there are discrepancies and lies all over this testimony.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Let's just hear the whole thing.
Speaker 8 (10:57):
Coldon Clerk, Wait minute, your honor, relax cold This is
inadmissible evidence.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I'll be the judge of that.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
This is ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Please sit down, mister Colton.
Speaker 6 (11:06):
The judge said, keep your pants on, mister Colton.
Speaker 12 (11:11):
Sorry, your honor, this part has a bunch of stuff
crossed out and written in the margins. Okay, new paragraph
missus Watkins says, the first time I saw Alma Sands,
I remember thinking that sweet miserable girl.
Speaker 5 (11:25):
Won't make it to thirty in New York. Objection, What
could that possibly mean?
Speaker 4 (11:29):
You can't object to her written testimony? Coldon stop interrupted, This.
Speaker 10 (11:33):
Just doesn't seem fair, you're honor clerk. I wasn't there
when this testimony was collected.
Speaker 8 (11:38):
Because it's a testimony for the defense's case.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Clerk.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
Missus Watkins continues.
Speaker 12 (11:44):
When I heard the rumor that Elma Sands ended her
own life, I felt relieved for her.
Speaker 10 (11:48):
We have heard countless testimonies about how cheerful and happy
and joyous Alma Sands was.
Speaker 6 (11:53):
And now we're hearing about how miserable and suicidal she
was because she was being repeatedly raped by Elias ring
the two sides to every Sorry bud.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
You gentlemen, still have a witness on the stand.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
Mister Watkins. How about your daughter Betsy? She was close
to Alma? Right?
Speaker 5 (12:12):
I don't think they were close.
Speaker 9 (12:13):
Yes, Alma hardly knew Betsy.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Betsy and Elma would sitting on a stooferoles just chatting away.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Let's bring her up in hopes of enhancing this dramatic
testimony and continuing to paint a picture of Elma as miserable.
The defense called Joseph's daughter Betsy Watkins and described her
as a friend of the deceased acquaintance.
Speaker 9 (12:36):
Excuse me, daddy, it's my true.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Oh I like it up here.
Speaker 4 (12:43):
Good morning, miss Watkins.
Speaker 13 (12:45):
It's Betsy to you, mister Hamilton.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Uh Bessy. Alexander characterized Elma's sands for the jury. Who
was Alma?
Speaker 13 (12:55):
She was a melancholy, depressed, pale weirdo, not in a
mean way. She was kind of like a baby goat.
You know, I knew she wasn't a virgin objection?
Speaker 5 (13:05):
What is she talking about?
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Betsy? On the day Elma disappeared, did you see her?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 13 (13:11):
I saw her almost every day.
Speaker 6 (13:12):
What was she doing that day, December twenty second?
Speaker 13 (13:16):
She was looking in the mirror, tying a handkerchief around
her neck in different styles?
Speaker 6 (13:21):
How did she appear to you?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
Prettier than usual?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I guess she had lipstick on.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Finally, so I.
Speaker 6 (13:26):
Meant, how did she seem disposition wise?
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (13:31):
Stirr rest, mister burr.
Speaker 13 (13:32):
Super stressed yet like pale, nervous, kind of.
Speaker 6 (13:36):
Breathy like she might be on her way to commit suicide,
objection leading the witness.
Speaker 13 (13:41):
I've never seen someone on their way to commit suicide.
Speaker 6 (13:43):
But she didn't look like she was on her way
to get married, right, A person getting married would look happy, excited.
Speaker 13 (13:51):
Well, to be honest, I've never seen anyone on their
way to get married either, But if I.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
Had to guess, that'sy miss Watkins.
Speaker 13 (13:58):
Aaron, mister Burr.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
Did Elmo look frightened that day? Or did she look happy?
Or did she look sad?
Speaker 14 (14:08):
None of those things?
Speaker 6 (14:09):
Then? How did Elmo look? Betsy?
Speaker 13 (14:12):
She looked kind of cry when I saw her, But honestly,
after Catherine left for the quarantine and then came back,
Alma always looks sad.
Speaker 14 (14:20):
To me.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
She was sad and her sadness took her life. Not
LEVI weeks.
Speaker 5 (14:26):
What I spent all of yesterday proving that Elma was happy.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
To override Coldon's witnesses, the defense then called four expert witnesses, doctors,
real doctors to one up Coldon on the science, not.
Speaker 6 (14:39):
Dentists who once read a book on autopsies to confirm
that Elma Sans committed suicide.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
I've already proven that Alma wasn't alone when she died.
She screamed, murder.
Speaker 6 (14:50):
Can you stop interrupting? Coldon, there was no.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Suicide, so the defense kept bringing up the theory that
Alma took her own life, even though this was a
try murder and the coroner's jury had declared this a
murder months before, and although their job was to determine
a person's cause of death, the coroner's jury was not
a jury, and there were no coroners involved, and the
(15:15):
defense lawyers knew how this process went. The coroner's jury
was a guy in a room, not a doctor, but
he called himself a coroner who paid his friends and
colleagues to come in and decide how the dead person died.
And whatever they decided when they gathered around and looked
at the corpse became the findings for the case. And
(15:35):
in this case, the coroner's jury examined Alma's body twelve
days after it was found, which was eleven days after
she went missing, and determined as a group of pals
and non medical professionals that her cause of death was
indeed murder. And then they probably went to lunch, and
the case for Elma Sans relied on the decision that
(15:56):
they came to. On that January afternoon, Hamilton and Burr
called doctor Nicholas Romayne.
Speaker 6 (16:07):
What did you see, doctor?
Speaker 15 (16:08):
I saw a girl's body, mister Burr, super dead.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Who was actually doctor David Hosac's mentor and former teacher. Truly,
everyone knew each other except coldon.
Speaker 6 (16:20):
Any specific observations about the corpse.
Speaker 5 (16:23):
Oh not much.
Speaker 15 (16:24):
Scratches, bruising on the knee and that's all right, yeah, scars,
algrove skin standard stuff.
Speaker 5 (16:31):
Hold on, is it standard for a young girl to
be covered in scars?
Speaker 15 (16:35):
I don't know many young girls, mister Colton, but Elma
skin was all blistered and weather beaten in addition to
the injuries.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
And then, for even further reinforcement, they called New York's
most elite doctors up to the stand, first doctor McIntosh,
then doctor Prince Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton knew the
system like the backs of their hands because they helped
create it. They called New York's most elite and respected
(17:06):
physicians up to the stand. And these guys were all
friends and colleagues. They were on the boards of each
other's foundations, starting medical colleges together the defense lawyers knew
exactly what these doctors would tell the jury. In fact,
they probably all planted out together at the pub.
Speaker 5 (17:22):
I noticed four contusions on her breast, like she'd been grabbed.
Speaker 6 (17:26):
But doctor Macintosh, the injuries on the corpse were minimal, right, Yeah,
she was just scraped up from bouncing around in the
Manhattan well for eleven days, right, not from violence inflicted
by another person.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
Objection.
Speaker 10 (17:40):
Doctor The Corner's jury unanimously ruled this a murder when
they saw Alma's body.
Speaker 5 (17:44):
Yeah, but none of those guys are corners.
Speaker 10 (17:47):
So you genuinely believe Alma Sance died by drowning.
Speaker 5 (17:50):
There was a spoonful of water in her lungs. Water
in her lungs.
Speaker 6 (17:57):
So what does that mean, Doctor Romaine?
Speaker 7 (17:59):
It means and she was still breathing when she hit
the water. It means she threw herself in the left objection, Nope.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Continue.
Speaker 7 (18:07):
As soon as I saw Alma's body, I thought she
probably took her own life.
Speaker 3 (18:12):
She was pretty, but she was ugly, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 6 (18:16):
Of course, you're being very clear.
Speaker 7 (18:18):
It's hard to believe she wasn't pregnant. I thought for
sure we'd find a baby when we opened her up, Doctor.
Speaker 10 (18:23):
Romaine, what about the row of bruises on Elma's neck
and breast? What did you make of those? I'll rephrase.
Could the bruises on Elma's neck and breast have been
caused by someone's fingers?
Speaker 3 (18:33):
Hmm?
Speaker 7 (18:34):
I see skin that's been gangreened all the time at
the Almshouse. The swollen, dark tissue could have been from anything.
Speaker 10 (18:39):
I wasn't asking about gangreen doctor, I was asking about
these specific bruises being caused by someone else's hands.
Speaker 7 (18:46):
I've already said, based on what I've observed, I think
Alma San's committed suicide.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
That's all I can tell you.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Wonderful And then, in the spirit of thoroughness and scientific proof,
the defense lawyers recalled their friend David.
Speaker 16 (19:01):
Hi again, everyone, energy isn't here is amazing legend.
Speaker 4 (19:08):
It's because of you. You ready, Doc hit me yesterday
You've testified that Almo's body might have been injured by
another person? Is that correct?
Speaker 14 (19:17):
Yes, that's what I said yesterday.
Speaker 6 (19:20):
And would you like to add to that statement?
Speaker 1 (19:22):
Now?
Speaker 16 (19:23):
Well, I'm of two minds here, you guys. I stand
by my previous testimony. I mean that was a battered corpse,
injured and mangled and bad. But remember I didn't even
see the body until the coroner's jury, so a lot
could have happened before then.
Speaker 6 (19:39):
So what does that mean? Doctor?
Speaker 16 (19:41):
The coroner's jury met several days after Elma was pulled
out of the water, but before that, missus Ring displayed
the body in a box on her property. People were
touching it, handling it, moving it around to examine it.
So so it's possible that the neck got broken posthumously.
Speaker 6 (20:02):
Because of Catherine Ring's calculated, manipulative decisions. Elma's neck was broken,
not because of violence or choking. Catherine made this look
like a murder.
Speaker 15 (20:15):
Mister Colby objection.
Speaker 5 (20:17):
Everyone was so careful, LEVI was fraided. Catherine could not
have bruised the corpse.
Speaker 14 (20:22):
I disagree, mister Colden Corner.
Speaker 6 (20:25):
Thank you doctor. Nothing further.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yes, they literally tried to blame Catherine, and these details
were completely different from what doctor Hoseak had testified to
the day before.
Speaker 5 (20:38):
Doctor Hosek, do you often change your mind overnight?
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Maybe the defense lawyers got to speak to their friend
during the overnight adjournment and convince him to change his testimony.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Mister Colden, Knowledge is fickle, but facts are.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
Not objection badgering our witness.
Speaker 10 (20:54):
Again, my witness, Doctor Hosek, did you sit on the
coroner's journey which unanimously voted that Alma Sans was murdered?
I did, sir, So you said, as a member of
New York's trusted coroner's jury, that Alma Sans's cause of
death was murdered by violence? Right, yes, and yesterday you
(21:15):
stood by that decision.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
I did.
Speaker 10 (21:17):
But today you're suddenly abandoning those facts, suddenly suggesting Alma's
death could have been a suicide. You changed your mind
between yesterday and today, right, I just want to make
sure you're as flaky as you've seen Coldin.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
Can you cease harassing our witness and at least pred
tend to be professional.
Speaker 16 (21:36):
There's a lot of new information now. I didn't realize
Alma's life was so traumatic.
Speaker 11 (21:40):
How was my cousin's life traumatic her chaotic sex relations alone?
Speaker 10 (21:46):
How are alma sex relations relevant to the scientific autopsy
of her body?
Speaker 16 (21:49):
Doctor Hosek, I have new insight now, mister Colden. Science
is like that, sometimes it builds on itself.
Speaker 10 (21:57):
I have nothing further for this witness step down doctor Hosak.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
And for their next trick, the defense called Timothy Crane
to the stand another short term border at two o
eight Grenache Street.
Speaker 4 (22:10):
Mister Crane will get right into it. You're personally acquainted
with both Levi and as were Weeks.
Speaker 15 (22:15):
Right, yeah, yeah, I work for Ezra Weeks and uh listen,
Levi and Ezra are both good men.
Speaker 4 (22:23):
How would you characterize Levi Weeks specifically?
Speaker 15 (22:26):
Honest, hardworking, well rounded? Yeah, yeah, all integrity all the time.
Speaker 9 (22:34):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 4 (22:35):
And how about Alma Sands?
Speaker 15 (22:38):
Unstable, insecure, melancholy, hard to talk to, always chasing a high.
You know, that's why I was never attracted to her
or anything.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
So Elma was suicidal?
Speaker 5 (22:51):
Perhaps objection? There's overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Speaker 8 (22:55):
Mister Crane provided a jury with specific examples.
Speaker 15 (22:59):
Well, be honest, sir, I didn't get to know Elma
that well exactly.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
That's okay, Timothy. Just tell us how you know she
was depressed?
Speaker 5 (23:07):
You're honor a question for Katherine Ring.
Speaker 4 (23:08):
Objection?
Speaker 8 (23:09):
He keeps interrupted, Yes, mister Colton, make it quick, coldon
missus Ring.
Speaker 10 (23:14):
How many days did this witness Timothy Crane overlap with
Elma in.
Speaker 9 (23:17):
Your home less than two week, literally want week. He
doesn't know anything almost so why did they get to
ask him what? I genuinely believe?
Speaker 11 (23:25):
It was eight days, sir, when he was between accommodations,
a little bit before Christmas.
Speaker 10 (23:30):
And Alma was murdered on the twenty second of December.
This witness didn't know Elm at all whatsoever?
Speaker 4 (23:35):
I disagreed. This witness knew Elma for several days before
she killed herself, and he has valuable insight if you'd
ever let him get to testify.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
All right, continue, mister crane.
Speaker 15 (23:45):
Okay, So one night we called a doctor to the house.
What Ford Russell had hemorrhoids and he wanted Perudian bark.
It was me, Russell and Elma in the parlor.
Speaker 14 (23:59):
No try sleeping on your stomach.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
Okay, Am I dying? Doctor?
Speaker 4 (24:04):
Just tell me so.
Speaker 5 (24:06):
Far from it, sir.
Speaker 14 (24:07):
Just an unflamed irritation of your bumhole. I've seen worse bumholes.
In fact, I've seen your bumhole look worse.
Speaker 9 (24:15):
Do you want another whiskey, Russell or tea?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Maybe I'm a whiskey. I'm dying and these are my
final breaths.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Don't bother.
Speaker 5 (24:27):
He's knocked out.
Speaker 14 (24:30):
All right, kids, I'm out of here. Keep his feet elevated.
Speaker 9 (24:34):
Oh should I grab more books for under his feet?
Speaker 14 (24:36):
Perfect? Yes, thank you.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Doctor before you go.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Yes, I'm do you buy any chance?
Speaker 1 (24:44):
Have any laud in them in your trunk?
Speaker 14 (24:47):
Of course I have? Every doctor has them.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Could I have just a little?
Speaker 4 (24:52):
Please?
Speaker 14 (24:53):
Are you congested? Coughing? Experiencing physical pain?
Speaker 5 (24:57):
Wait?
Speaker 14 (24:57):
What's a lot?
Speaker 1 (24:59):
I take it sometime?
Speaker 14 (25:00):
Oh you've had it before?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah? I love it.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
You love laudanum?
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, I dig a whole vile of it if I could.
Speaker 14 (25:08):
Don't joke like that, Alma, too much laudinum would kill you.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
So the idea of overdosing on drugs was funny to Alma.
Speaker 6 (25:18):
Did the doctor give her the drugs?
Speaker 15 (25:20):
He put a few drops under her tongue right before
he left, but he wouldn't give her the file.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
And mister Crane, you didn't try the laudinum.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Right, why would I?
Speaker 15 (25:30):
I wasn't sick.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
Do people your age tend to crave full bottles of
heavy medication.
Speaker 15 (25:35):
An intense opiate for no reason?
Speaker 5 (25:38):
No?
Speaker 15 (25:38):
Most people my age are happy.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
So almost drug use suggests she was in a dark
place mentally just before she died. Was that right?
Speaker 15 (25:48):
If she was experiencing unwanted intercourse by Elias ring and
she was craving excess quantities of laudanum, Yeah, yeah, I'd
say Alma was in a bad spot.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
So this kid lived in the same house as Elma
for just over a week, but he characterized her as opiate, addicted, depressed,
and suicidal. And then he made Levi sound like an
absolute angel. But did you hear that key detail that
Coldon missed? This witness worked for Ezra Weeks. Of course
he'd say anything for the Week's brothers. He was on
(26:20):
their payroll. The defense lawyers overwhelmed the jury with as
many theories and stories as possible. Each of their arguments
had only one or two witnesses to substantiate it, and
then they'd move on to a new, distracting allegation. But
it was working. Midway through day two, the jury's attention
was far away from Levi Weeks. So can you blame
(26:44):
Coldon for missing key details? He had to put out
so many fires that his own argument got lost in
the sauce. This case was supposed to be simple, and
justice was supposed to be clear, but Colden couldn't begin
to disprove everything his opponents were throwing at him, and
the jury, Hamilton and Burr shifted gears.
Speaker 4 (27:04):
After this, we'll call our next witness, our most important
witness so.
Speaker 5 (27:08):
Far, all the witnesses are important.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
Ezra week to talk about what a good guy Leave
I was. So what really happened on December seventeen ninety
next episode, We're one step closer to finding out. Stay
with us erased. The Murder of Elma Sans is a
(27:33):
production of Lunch Plans and Lava for Good Podcasts in
association with Signal Company Number One. The show is narrated,
written and produced by me Alison Flamm. It stars Alison
Williams as Catherine Ring, Tony Goldwyn as Alexander Hamilton, Barry
Scheck as Aaron Burr, and Jason Flamm as Judge John Dancing.
(27:55):
Our executive producers are Alison Williams, Jason Flamm, and Kevin Mortis.
This show is produced by Goldhalk Productions. The show is
sound designed and mixed by Steve Bond. The music is
composed and performed by Sasha Putnam. The producer for Goldhalk
is Andy Goddard, with production management from Emma Hearn, the
(28:16):
executive producer for goldhalk Is John Scott Dryden. You can
listen to every episode of Erased the Murder of Alma
Sands right now ad free by subscribing to Lava for
Good plus on Apple Podcasts. You can also follow the
show on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter at Lava for
Good and For more information on this story, plus a
complete list of our incredible cast, visit Lava Forgod dot com.
(28:39):
Slash Erased
Host
Allison Flom
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.