May 15, 2024 • 37 mins
Finance plays a critical role in addressing climate change, but the current approach is seen as insufficient. In this episode of the Bloomberg Intelligence ESG Currents podcast, Executive Vice President and Head of CDPQ Global and Global Head of Sustainability Marc-André Blanchard joins Eric Kane, BI’s director of ESG research, at the Bloomberg Sustainable Finance Forum in Toronto to discuss how sustainable finance should be done differently. They also talk about sustainability at CDPQ, the role of engagement, the importance of blended finance, incentives vs. penalties and the need to use all the tools at our disposal to address the climate challenge. Register here for BI ESG’s June 4 virtual conference, COP 28.5: Looking Back on Dubai, Looking Ahead to Baku.
This episode was recorded on May 7.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
ESG has become established as a key business theme as
companies and investors seek to navigate the climate crisis, energy transition,
social mega trends, mounting regulatory attension and pressure from other stakeholders.
The rapidly evolving landscape has become inundated with acronyms, buzzwords,
and lingo, and we aim to break these down with
(00:31):
industry experts. Welcome to ESG Currents, brought to you by
Bloomberg Intelligence, your guide to navigating the evolving ESG space,
one topic at a time. I'm Eric Kine, director of
ESG Research for Bloomberg Intelligence, and I'm your host for
today's episode. For this episode, we're going to do something
a little different, and we're going to present a fireside
(00:53):
chat that I had with Marc Andre Blanchard at last
week's Bloomberg Sustainable Finance Forum in Toronto. As I mentioned
in the introduction I gave on stage, which you'll hear,
Mark Andre is the executive vice president and head of
CDPQ Global and Global Head of Sustainability. We talked about
what sustainability means for CDPQ, the role that finance plays
(01:16):
in addressing climate change in biodiversity, the importance of blended finance,
the need to think about risk and opportunity differently, engagement
and much more so. With that, we'll take you to
the conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So I have the.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Immense pleasure of chatting with Mark Andre Blanchard today. His
CB is too long to review in its entirety, but
I pulled out a few highlights. I hope you don't mind.
So Mark Andre is currently the executive Vice President and
Head of CDPQ Global and Global Head of Sustainability. He
(01:57):
also currently sits on the Board of Directors and Executive
Committee of the Sustainable Markets Initiative, which was launched by
His Majesty King Charles the Third, where he also chairs
the Blend of Finance Task Force, something we'll discuss in
a few minutes.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And then.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Before joining CDPQ in September of twenty twenty, he was
Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Canada to the United Nations
in New York from twenty sixteen to twenty twenty. So again,
Mark Andre, thank you so much for taking the time
to join us during this great event.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Thank you. I'm very happy to be here. Thank you,
Thanks for Bloomberg and yourself for the invitation.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So I'd like to start by asking you about sustainability
at CDPQ and what your role entails.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
So well. CITPQ, I think I just want to make
sure that I give you the basic information about CITYPQ.
It's a ninstitution investors from the province of Quebec. It's
we have, you know more, managing myn for forty eight
investors or forty eight depositors. Six million people in Quebec
(03:07):
are counting on us to actually receive a pension when
they retire. We have We are Canada's second largest pension
funds or institution investors. We have four hundred and thirty
four billion dollars of assets under investment. We are under management,
we have we're invested in seventy countries. The peculiarity of
(03:30):
CDPQ is we have a dual mandate, a mandate for
return to our depositors and a mandate as well of
contribution to the economic development of Quebec, which makes us
the actually the fund that is the most invested in
the world in its local economy. We have eighty eight
billion dollars CAD invested in the economy of Quebec and
(03:56):
we are actually aiming to bring this hire by twenty
twenty six to our one hundred billion dollars invested in Quebec.
We believe that actually this gave us a very special
DNA to actually to invest in the world. We have
a strong belief that when our communities where we invest
are strong, that actually our investments are doing better. And
(04:20):
for those of you who are asking you, we don't
divulge the difference between our investments in Quebec and the
rest of the world for when we report them. What
I can tell you and what our CEO says all
the time is that actually you know what it pays
to invest in your local communities, and actually we do
very well in our investments in Quebec. The dual mandate
(04:43):
brings us eric to Actually I've thought about it. I've
thought to make sure that we could think about it
differently for sustainability, and that's why we were the first
institution investors in the world to in twenty seventeen to
actually have a very aggressive plan. So since then we've
reduced by fifty nine percent our carbon footprint. Since twenty seventeen,
(05:09):
we've increased our green assets. We have now fifty three
billion dollars of green assets and we have like eighty
percent of our portfolio is with low carbon with a
low carbon footprint. So we believe what we deploy constructive
capital and for us, sustainability is part of constructive capital
(05:34):
and this is you know where we think it's going.
And if you look at how that our sustainability. I'm
the responsible for sustainable lity throughout the CITYPQ. When you
look at how my group is divided, it just shows
(05:55):
you where we put the emphasis going forward. So we
have every investment we may there's an ESG analysis that
is done pre investment with actually a view also to
put a plan together for how you know the value
creation of this. The second is obviously we have a
group that deals with engagement with our portfolio companies including
(06:19):
proxy voting and the engagement with public companies and also
with our companies where we have governance rights or where
we have control or where we we in context of
the private equity. And the third one is actually on
value creation and also investing in the in the transition
(06:44):
because these are the three components. For me, it's actually
are we investing taking into account erg creditias? Are actually
are we engaging with our companies. And the third are
we investing and promoting value creation? Because that's a part
that is often missed and by by I find in
the narrative that it's it's also the transition, A just
(07:07):
transition is all also about value creation for investors and
for the academy.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Absolutely, it's a great introduction, and you mentioned a couple
of key principles in there. Of course, you know the
ESG analysis that you do before an investment. You mentioned
of course engagement as well. So I think you've kind
of answered pieces of the next question, but maybe just
to kind of reiterate, I'm curious as to your views
(07:34):
on cdpq's role and the role of finance in general
in addressing climate and biodiversity.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Well let's take climate first. Just for the the I
was actually reading something published by TPG Rice Climate, and
you know they were assessing that about six point five
trillion dollars per year will be spent on energy transition
(08:03):
in the coming ten to ten two fifteen years. So
you know, just think about it. This is on a
magnitude that is difficult to grasp even you know, six
point five trillion dollars a year. That's six thousand, five
(08:23):
hundred billion. This is this if you know, when you
think about it, if only twenty percent of this happens
in the private market, it will make the scale of
investment in energy transition greater than the entire private equity
market or private equity industry today. That's that's how that's
(08:48):
the scale that we're talking about. So for us, what
we believe is we need to work on the on
the on the transition of the economy as a whole.
You know, there's and that I showed it with our targets.
(09:09):
It's you're reducing the carbon footprint of of everything, but
also of IE emitting sectors. This is why we have
a transition envelope of ten billion dollars that skated to
actually I emitters the art to abate sectors. Investors have
(09:30):
a role to play to actually reduce the the the
emissions of those that sector. And as I mentioned and
you'll hear it often from me during this presentation. For me,
it's it's it's also about the opportunity of the of
the transition as investors. So yes, increasing the number of
(09:52):
our green assets, but also of the value creation to
work with our companies to actually take that route, that
journey of the transition. The biodiversity is an interesting question, Eric,
it is, it is not nascent, but it's it's coming
(10:14):
a little bit more and more to the part of
the agenda. Uh, it's still it's in its infancy, I mean,
but we actually believe that if you think about supply
chain disruption, about price volatility, about the destruction of real
(10:35):
assets due to the erosion or wildfire, wildfire, of course
biodiversity needs to be taken into account as an investor,
and and we actually more and more take that into
account in our investment. The issue there is the development
(10:56):
of tools to measure the potential impact on biodiversity and
and so make the right decision to invest limit our impact.
And and so what we've done so far is, uh
is we we've we've joined a group part of Cambridge
University to actually look at, uh, you know, how how
(11:18):
to respond really in in concrete ways to some of
the systemic risks like biodiversity or you can think about
another nascent risk is the the the the the NPT
microbio resistance. That is also a growing issue. And so
we with Cambridge University, we're working there and with other
(11:39):
institution investors for one point, through trillion dollars of assets
under management, we're part of that. And then and so
how how do we integrate that in our investment processes?
And then you search and df Marine, the CEO of
fond acc is one of the top leaders in the
country on the is on these issues. And so we
(12:00):
actually partnered with pond Acco and others, with Canadian Parks
and Wilderness Society and others in Quebec to actually work
with the University share Brook to develop, you know, the
teams that will lead to indicators for the financial sector.
So that's that's how we see diversity and that's uh,
(12:23):
but we believe it's actually going to gain in importance
and relevance for investors in the future.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Absolutely. So you mentioned, of course the opportunity side in
addition to the risk side when you think about issues
like climate, bio diversity, and fascinating that you brought up
anti microbial resistance as well. I'm curious to hear your
thoughts on what structures and policies you ultimately I think
are needed in order to kind of strengthen the role
(12:52):
that finance plays in these issues and finances kind of
ability to recognize these opportunities.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Specifically, if you ask me one thing about sometimes I
find the narrative of HG, I'll make one introductory comment
that is not an answer to your question, but it's
where I come from personally. As I when I think
about this as a leader from my institution, I often
hear us about the narrative of the transition, and it
(13:26):
is a very very narrative, a very negative narrative, and
we have to be careful with that. Yes, we must
see it from a risk perspective, but you also must
see it when you're an investor, as an opportunity to invest.
And this is often lost a little bit. And I
(13:50):
warn people who are in the room here and are
part of sustainable investment, a chief sustainability offices and all
of that. In different kinds of institutions, we we a
lot of our culture and philosophy come from the risk culture,
and and we meet at the moment. I feel in
(14:13):
some institutions there's a like, we must not lose the
dialogue with the investors in our institutions with the one
with the companies that we're doing business with. And that's
why I put a lot of emphasis on this So
that's one thing that's not an answer to your question.
I'm coming to the answer to but that just shows
(14:34):
you that we must think about doing it differently and
think about us. We are a pension fund quote unquote,
when you think about it, is a lot of what
we do is related is a pension fund. A lot
we have other investors, but it's a significant part of
what we do. We have built a sixty seven kilometers,
(15:03):
we've designed, built, and we're managing and we're going to
operate and we're operating sixty seven kilometers of light rail
train around Montreal. You know, it's the longest automated light
rail line in the world. This is something that actually
has reduces you know, the emissions by one hundred thousand
(15:28):
tons a year. It's a virtual circle when whenever you're
a Quebecer you sit on that train, you're basically paying
helping your pensions. It's a model that has been recognized
for its efficiency. I mean, I'll brag about it for
one second because I'm in Toronto and you have some
(15:50):
issues with some of the but like, it's the least expensive,
least expensive new public transit system built in North America.
It's one hundred and fifty million by the kumilomitter. And
I won't ask you what is the cost of the
Egglinton line. But I've been a resident. I'm a big
(16:12):
fan of Toronto. I've been a proud resident of this
city for my family for eleven years. So I can
do that when I'm in Toronto and talk. But it
just shows you that there's a different role for investors
in the transition. And for example, that brings us to
blended finance that has been made possible through a blended
(16:36):
finance arrangement with the Government of Quebec, the Government of Canada,
Iidro Quebec or is the energy supplier, the municipalities that
it goes through, the airport in Montreal and all of that.
This is the way of the future. When you think
about that, a lot of the things we need to
be doing in the transition. The risk return equation will
(16:56):
not be quite right for institution investors. It will not
be quite right either for governments because they cannot put
that on their balance sheet because they won't have the
physical space. It is not something that can be done
by philanthropy. It is not something that can be solved
alone by technology, and we need to actually come together
(17:19):
in a way that we've never done before. Really, And
so this is why I'm telling you we need to
think differently about risk. We need to think differently about opportunities.
When we don't know something, we tend to overestimate the risk,
underestimate the opportunities. And actually we need to think differently
about partnerships. And we need to partner with an organization
(17:45):
that we're not used to partner with. And this is
a big thing for us. You know, governments, you know
they kind of know what we do, the institution, investors,
the Maple Aid in Canada, but not really. And we
kind of know how they operate in governments, but not really.
And then the philanthropy. So we all need to learn
(18:11):
to work together and spend more time thinking about how
we're going to make these partnership works because they are
essential to the transition. Just think about it that it
is both in the developed world and in the developing world.
And forget one thing I want to I would just
to make sure that I'm a little respectful also of
(18:34):
my experience at the UN and all of that. If
the transition does not happen in the South, it will
not happen in the world, and we sometimes forget it
and we say, now, that's not an issue for us. Well,
those of us who believe we have a strong role,
an important role to play in the transition, we also
(18:57):
need to think about how we're going to play that
role in some other parts of the world. Just think
about it, Southeast Asia in the next I think I'm
not precise on that number, so just don't hold it
against me, But in the next ten to fifteen years,
we'll actually be consuming the entire if we let it go.
(19:17):
If we let the situation go with the way it
is at the moment and with the growth they have,
they will be eating the entire carbon budget of the
planet just them alone. So we need to think about
how we're going to be part of that solution as well.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Absolutely, I won't wait until the rivalry between Montreal and Toronto,
but I do a friendship.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
We are very good friends and complementary in so many ways,
and so much stronger together, I'm sure. But I do
very much appreciate.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
You're bringing up the idea of blended finance. I think
it was, you know, one of the things that I
wanted to ask you about and I think the example
you gave of the light rail project in Montreal is
quite telling and powerful. So maybe going back to your
introductor your remarks, you mentioned the importance of engagement when
you think about, you know, cdpq's approach to sustainability, wondering
(20:17):
if you can, you know, tell us a little bit
more about how CDPQ engages with portfolio companies and how
critical that really is to progress.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I and I was listening to the to anna from
teachers before they do engagement as well at teachers and
I salute them for that. And we're not alone doing this,
but I really believe if you're an asset owner, your role,
you have a big role to play with the engagement
with your portfolio companies. And this is this is to me,
(20:53):
this is very key to the future of what we
need to be doing. And just give you an example.
Last year, my team add three hundred interaction engagement with
our portfolio companies. And you know it goes from simply
raising awareness of HGS among our portfolio companies to helping
(21:15):
them design some of some plans to get to net
zero and looking at opportunities. I actually believe we really
need to go to the two point zero, in the
three point zero in the coming two three four years
of how we engage with our portfolio companies to really
(21:35):
it's again changing the narrative. We're not there to tick
boxes and ask them and only an investigation and ask
them for numbers and all of that and data. We're
also there to create value with them, and this is
the this is how we need to build that partnership,
(21:56):
and it's going to be good for the company, good
for the insitution investors, and good for the planet at
the same time. For example, my dream is to actually
bring CDPQ CDPQ, we own all sorts of participation in
companies that can contribute to so much to actually make
sure that some of our portfolio companies actually progress and
(22:19):
accelerate their progress on their net zero net zero pathway
and and so. But sometimes some of our companies cannot
do that alone. So if we do it together, if
we bring three, four, five, six, seven, ten of them
together with the right resources, then we can leap frog.
And I think it's the role of insution investors like
(22:40):
us to do that. But again that's a different role
than the traditional role that we had as an asset
owner and so we need that's how we need to
think about the partnership differently, the blended finance differently, the
way we look at the world differently.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Absolutely, the idea oftnership, I think ties into my next question.
So CDPQ is a signatory to both the Nature Action
one hundred and the Climate Action one hundred plus, and
you sit on the Board of Directors of the Executive
Committee of the Sustainable Markets Initiative. As I mentioned during
your introduction, I just want to hear, you know, maybe
(23:19):
some additional thoughts on the importance of these collaborations and
these initiatives for engagement.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, it's exactly. It goes right into what I was
just saying. The Sustainable Market Initiative was created when King
Charles the Third was Prince Charles, and it's now led
by Brian Monhan who is the CEO of Bank of America,
and it's between two hundred and fifty and three hundred
(23:49):
members that are there, and it's all at the very
high level, but it's all representatives of the real economy.
And that's why I love that it's a mess sometimes
because it has all sorts of vehicles in different industries
and it's a mess because we're all starting on this journey.
(24:09):
You know, we've never done it before, taking an entire
planet and transitioning it. So it's complex. How do you
deal with the issue that you've raised about sustainable aviation
a few feel a few minutes ago. I mean, you
need to deal with the production in agriculture. You need
(24:30):
to deal with the regulation in transportation, you need to
deal with the airport owners. You need to deal with
the aircraft manufacturer. You need to deal with the airlines.
You need to deal with the price tickets in some
developing market of the of the of the airline tickets
you need. It's endless, and so how do you need
to bring these people, the right people around the table
(24:52):
to actually make sure that we can develop the partnership
and the right investment platforms and all of that. And
that's what these groups do, like the Sustainable Market Initiatives.
You have other groups like the Net zero Alliance and
stuff that is more about standards and disclosure and that
that is very that is essential as well as a role.
But now what needs to be done is a lot
(25:14):
about doing We we now know the objectives that where
we have to go to for the most part, now
the issue is how are we going to get it done?
And this is a very tough part. I'm not saying
that the first the other what we've done so far
was easy, but I think what we have to do
now can be tough. But the opportunities linked to it
(25:39):
are really big and important and significant for for for everybody.
And and this is this is, this is part of
the difference. I'll show you. I'll give you an example
of a different partnership that I never thought would happened
in a few years ago the US Treasury, So we
(26:01):
created when canadastood the last G seven in twenty eighteen,
under Prime Minister Truro, we created the Investors Leadership Network.
It's a group of institutional investors from the G seven
that came together on climate, infrastructure and diversity. And the
group is still going on stronger than ever. Fourteen members,
(26:23):
ten trillion of assets under management, all the many of
the big players around there. And you know what, last year,
a year ago, we did an agreement with the US
Treasury to actually because on the transition, they wanted to
make sure that we were looking more closely at how
(26:46):
we could contribute to the transition in some parts of
the emerging markets, and that led to an agreement with
USTDA with is the US Trade the Development Agency to
actually a project preparation facility of one hundred million yes
available to the institution investor around the table who would
(27:10):
have taught and the and the leads on this agreement
were CDPQ, NETICXIS and in ninety one. None of these
funds are of the of Residency in the US. So
the US Treasury making an agreement with something flowing from
the G seven in Canada, that's fine, But then U,
(27:32):
S D S U S TDA that does something. And
with the US Treasury and three main institution investors representing
that group that are none of them are you are American?
So it just shows you that actually how people are
looking at this differently than before, and who would have
taught that institution investors would be interested in project preparation
(27:55):
on such a scale. And so this is this is
this is the new world that we live in and
we need to make progress on that. Because everybody recognized
what are the impediments to get the institution investors like
CDPQ to invest in the transition in some parts of
the world. Well, it's the lack of bankable projects. It
(28:18):
is the fact that we need some deriskking tools that
are at scale, and we need the de risk king
of the foreign exchange and we need as well access
to better information about the data of multilateral development banks.
And so just to finish on this because it's an
interesting topic that I'm also passionate about. When you look
(28:39):
at it, people talk about the reform of the World Bank.
Actually the actual president of the World Bank is a
great ag Bank is fantastic, is you know, giving a
lot of implementing a lot, pushing it through a lot
of reforms. But think about it. The institution investors, like
the one I represent in the world, all of us
(28:59):
can buy. All of the institution investors in the world
have nine hundred times nine hundred times more capital than
all of the multilateral development banks taken together. So when
the multilateral development banks were created sixty seventy years ago,
(29:22):
the institution investors did not really exist in the world.
Like us, We did not exist. We're sixty years old,
and so that's the world has changed. But the institution
are now catching up. And it's tough in this current
geopolitics actually to get the nimbleness that is needed to
(29:45):
do what we need to be doing. So that's why
you need this new kind of these new kinds of
partnership and new ways of thinking about the around these
problems and these issues. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
So maybe for our last question, you mentioned, of course
the US stress and its involvement in the project that
you just mentioned. Obviously, the Treasury plays a big role
in the Implesion Reduction Act, which in the US I
think continues to be described as kind of a great
example of the power of incentives, which is perhaps leads,
(30:16):
you know, back to this idea that you're mentioning of rethinking,
you know, how we're approaching these problems. So I just
wanted to hear maybe in the in the closing moments
here kind of how ultimately you view the balance between,
you know, the two regulatory approaches of you know, the
character versus the stick, or incentives versus penalties.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
So, you know, I'll tell you a story. When I
arrive as Ambassador of Canada to the UN, I was
coming from the private sector. I was sharing CEO of
Makarta Titro, one of Canada's national law firms, before I
was appointed by Prime Minister Trudro to the UN and
I arrived at the UN and I asked the Secretary General,
(30:58):
how can I help. I'm here, I'm Canada, I represent Canada,
and as you know, we're here to help. He said, well,
you know, we we have. We've just signed the Purse
Accord and we've just agreed on the SDGs. But he said,
we're so lucky to have someone from the private sector
(31:19):
coming to the UN because nobody's talking here about how
we're going to finance all of this. So you need
to bring that discussion to the u N. And that's
what I've tried for the for the four years. And
after I was there, then I went to see the
number two of the UN and I said, you know,
I said, how do you see the u N? And
(31:41):
how you know for someone like me coming from the outside.
He said, you only need to remember one thing. World
piece is like a stool that stands on three legs,
and the role of the UN is these three legs.
There's a leg on security, there's a leg on development,
(32:05):
and there's a leg on governance. And if you only
work on one legs of the stool, the stool will
not stand. There will be no world peace you need,
and you said, just understand that the world will be
always imperfect, but we all need always need to work
on security, development and governance at the same time. And
(32:27):
to me, really it struck me and I kept it
in my mind since then. It's the same thing with
what we're trying to do in the transition. If we
only work on the governance, which is the stick, I
actually believe it won't work. And we need we need
(32:50):
the governance, but we also need the opportunities, you know,
we need the development side, and and and whatever the
other leg you want, which is probably I think the stakeholders.
We need to work make sure that we also work
with the social license needed to get all of this
(33:13):
to be working together. So my point is with the RARA,
that was a great way of remembering or noticing that actually,
you know what, Yes, the stick works. It has moved
some capital, not as much as we would have liked,
(33:36):
and not as fast as we would have liked. We
have to notice that. And then you had the RARA
that was completely like a different approach, a carrot, not
a stick. Four hundred billion dollars of public money, no cap.
They now believe it's going to be six hundred billion.
(33:58):
The four hundred billion was supposed to trig one point
two trillion. The sixth underd billion will move one point
one point I do you have my math right in
one point eight whatever? From three times? Yes, one point eight.
So this is also a number that we have to
(34:20):
So we have difficulties putting our mind around. But you
know what, Just remember there's a in the South. In
the US, there's a debate about ESG, there's a debate
about climate, but without any I don't want to judge
anything in the US. But let's notice that what the
(34:41):
New York Times and CNN reminded us a few months
ago about the money. The money is going faster in
some Republican states who are not known to be the
most enthusiastic about the transition. Why. Some may say it's
(35:03):
because of regulation, but some may say all suits because
of the financial opportunities that are looked at. So my
point here is, let's use everything we have, and if
we only use one side, I actually build. That's why
I want to make sure that we have the right
narrative in place. We're still all human beings at the
(35:26):
end of the day, and our psychology works for that
as for other stuff, and you know, we tend to
be a risk averse when there's a gain and risk
taker when there's a loss, because we always think we
can postpone that loss, and so we tend. So I
(35:48):
invite us to think about also the carot and the
gain and make sure it's part of the story, because
I think there's room for the entire story there to
be part. We also need to be very realistic about
the challenges the urgency, but also let's not forget what
are the opportunities and how we can actually all benefit
(36:10):
from it. So thank you very much, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
I think that's a great way to end, and thank
you so.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Much for joining us. Thank you, thank your pleasure.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I think the idea of using everything we have to
address the climate challenge and making sure we tackle the
problem from all legs of the stool is a fantastic
way to conclude this conversation. And I want to thank
Mark Andre again for joining me at the Bloomberg Sustainable
Finance Forum for an on stage recording of the podcast.
I do also want to mention that the BIESG team
(36:46):
will be hosting a virtual conference on June fourth called
COP twenty eight point five, looking back on Dubai, looking
ahead to Baku. The event will include a panel on
funding the Transition, where I'm sure many of the concepts,
including blended finance that we discussed with Marc Andre, will
be talked about. You can find out more about the
(37:08):
virtual conference and register by clicking on the link in
this episode's description, And as always, you can find more
information on all things ESG by going to our dashboard
BI Space ESG go on the Bloomberg terminal, and if
you have an ESG quandary or burning question you would
like to ask bi's expert analysts, send us an email
(37:31):
at ESG Currents at Bloomberg dot net. Thank you very much,
and we'll see you next time.
ESG has become established as a key business theme as
companies and investors seek to navigate the climate crisis, energy transition,
social mega trends, mounting regulatory attension and pressure from other stakeholders.
The rapidly evolving landscape has become inundated with acronyms, buzzwords,
and lingo, and we aim to break these down with
(00:31):
industry experts. Welcome to ESG Currents, brought to you by
Bloomberg Intelligence, your guide to navigating the evolving ESG space,
one topic at a time. I'm Eric Kine, director of
ESG Research for Bloomberg Intelligence, and I'm your host for
today's episode. For this episode, we're going to do something
a little different, and we're going to present a fireside
(00:53):
chat that I had with Marc Andre Blanchard at last
week's Bloomberg Sustainable Finance Forum in Toronto. As I mentioned
in the introduction I gave on stage, which you'll hear,
Mark Andre is the executive vice president and head of
CDPQ Global and Global Head of Sustainability. We talked about
what sustainability means for CDPQ, the role that finance plays
(01:16):
in addressing climate change in biodiversity, the importance of blended finance,
the need to think about risk and opportunity differently, engagement
and much more so. With that, we'll take you to
the conversation.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
So I have the.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Immense pleasure of chatting with Mark Andre Blanchard today. His
CB is too long to review in its entirety, but
I pulled out a few highlights. I hope you don't mind.
So Mark Andre is currently the executive Vice President and
Head of CDPQ Global and Global Head of Sustainability. He
(01:57):
also currently sits on the Board of Directors and Executive
Committee of the Sustainable Markets Initiative, which was launched by
His Majesty King Charles the Third, where he also chairs
the Blend of Finance Task Force, something we'll discuss in
a few minutes.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And then.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
Before joining CDPQ in September of twenty twenty, he was
Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Canada to the United Nations
in New York from twenty sixteen to twenty twenty. So again,
Mark Andre, thank you so much for taking the time
to join us during this great event.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Thank you. I'm very happy to be here. Thank you,
Thanks for Bloomberg and yourself for the invitation.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
So I'd like to start by asking you about sustainability
at CDPQ and what your role entails.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
So well. CITPQ, I think I just want to make
sure that I give you the basic information about CITYPQ.
It's a ninstitution investors from the province of Quebec. It's
we have, you know more, managing myn for forty eight
investors or forty eight depositors. Six million people in Quebec
(03:07):
are counting on us to actually receive a pension when
they retire. We have We are Canada's second largest pension
funds or institution investors. We have four hundred and thirty
four billion dollars of assets under investment. We are under management,
we have we're invested in seventy countries. The peculiarity of
(03:30):
CDPQ is we have a dual mandate, a mandate for
return to our depositors and a mandate as well of
contribution to the economic development of Quebec, which makes us
the actually the fund that is the most invested in
the world in its local economy. We have eighty eight
billion dollars CAD invested in the economy of Quebec and
(03:56):
we are actually aiming to bring this hire by twenty
twenty six to our one hundred billion dollars invested in Quebec.
We believe that actually this gave us a very special
DNA to actually to invest in the world. We have
a strong belief that when our communities where we invest
are strong, that actually our investments are doing better. And
(04:20):
for those of you who are asking you, we don't
divulge the difference between our investments in Quebec and the
rest of the world for when we report them. What
I can tell you and what our CEO says all
the time is that actually you know what it pays
to invest in your local communities, and actually we do
very well in our investments in Quebec. The dual mandate
(04:43):
brings us eric to Actually I've thought about it. I've
thought to make sure that we could think about it
differently for sustainability, and that's why we were the first
institution investors in the world to in twenty seventeen to
actually have a very aggressive plan. So since then we've
reduced by fifty nine percent our carbon footprint. Since twenty seventeen,
(05:09):
we've increased our green assets. We have now fifty three
billion dollars of green assets and we have like eighty
percent of our portfolio is with low carbon with a
low carbon footprint. So we believe what we deploy constructive
capital and for us, sustainability is part of constructive capital
(05:34):
and this is you know where we think it's going.
And if you look at how that our sustainability. I'm
the responsible for sustainable lity throughout the CITYPQ. When you
look at how my group is divided, it just shows
(05:55):
you where we put the emphasis going forward. So we
have every investment we may there's an ESG analysis that
is done pre investment with actually a view also to
put a plan together for how you know the value
creation of this. The second is obviously we have a
group that deals with engagement with our portfolio companies including
(06:19):
proxy voting and the engagement with public companies and also
with our companies where we have governance rights or where
we have control or where we we in context of
the private equity. And the third one is actually on
value creation and also investing in the in the transition
(06:44):
because these are the three components. For me, it's actually
are we investing taking into account erg creditias? Are actually
are we engaging with our companies. And the third are
we investing and promoting value creation? Because that's a part
that is often missed and by by I find in
the narrative that it's it's also the transition, A just
(07:07):
transition is all also about value creation for investors and
for the academy.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Absolutely, it's a great introduction, and you mentioned a couple
of key principles in there. Of course, you know the
ESG analysis that you do before an investment. You mentioned
of course engagement as well. So I think you've kind
of answered pieces of the next question, but maybe just
to kind of reiterate, I'm curious as to your views
(07:34):
on cdpq's role and the role of finance in general
in addressing climate and biodiversity.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Well let's take climate first. Just for the the I
was actually reading something published by TPG Rice Climate, and
you know they were assessing that about six point five
trillion dollars per year will be spent on energy transition
(08:03):
in the coming ten to ten two fifteen years. So
you know, just think about it. This is on a
magnitude that is difficult to grasp even you know, six
point five trillion dollars a year. That's six thousand, five
(08:23):
hundred billion. This is this if you know, when you
think about it, if only twenty percent of this happens
in the private market, it will make the scale of
investment in energy transition greater than the entire private equity
market or private equity industry today. That's that's how that's
(08:48):
the scale that we're talking about. So for us, what
we believe is we need to work on the on
the on the transition of the economy as a whole.
You know, there's and that I showed it with our targets.
(09:09):
It's you're reducing the carbon footprint of of everything, but
also of IE emitting sectors. This is why we have
a transition envelope of ten billion dollars that skated to
actually I emitters the art to abate sectors. Investors have
(09:30):
a role to play to actually reduce the the the
emissions of those that sector. And as I mentioned and
you'll hear it often from me during this presentation. For me,
it's it's it's also about the opportunity of the of
the transition as investors. So yes, increasing the number of
(09:52):
our green assets, but also of the value creation to
work with our companies to actually take that route, that
journey of the transition. The biodiversity is an interesting question, Eric,
it is, it is not nascent, but it's it's coming
(10:14):
a little bit more and more to the part of
the agenda. Uh, it's still it's in its infancy, I mean,
but we actually believe that if you think about supply
chain disruption, about price volatility, about the destruction of real
(10:35):
assets due to the erosion or wildfire, wildfire, of course
biodiversity needs to be taken into account as an investor,
and and we actually more and more take that into
account in our investment. The issue there is the development
(10:56):
of tools to measure the potential impact on biodiversity and
and so make the right decision to invest limit our impact.
And and so what we've done so far is, uh
is we we've we've joined a group part of Cambridge
University to actually look at, uh, you know, how how
(11:18):
to respond really in in concrete ways to some of
the systemic risks like biodiversity or you can think about
another nascent risk is the the the the the NPT
microbio resistance. That is also a growing issue. And so
we with Cambridge University, we're working there and with other
(11:39):
institution investors for one point, through trillion dollars of assets
under management, we're part of that. And then and so
how how do we integrate that in our investment processes?
And then you search and df Marine, the CEO of
fond acc is one of the top leaders in the
country on the is on these issues. And so we
(12:00):
actually partnered with pond Acco and others, with Canadian Parks
and Wilderness Society and others in Quebec to actually work
with the University share Brook to develop, you know, the
teams that will lead to indicators for the financial sector.
So that's that's how we see diversity and that's uh,
(12:23):
but we believe it's actually going to gain in importance
and relevance for investors in the future.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Absolutely. So you mentioned, of course the opportunity side in
addition to the risk side when you think about issues
like climate, bio diversity, and fascinating that you brought up
anti microbial resistance as well. I'm curious to hear your
thoughts on what structures and policies you ultimately I think
are needed in order to kind of strengthen the role
(12:52):
that finance plays in these issues and finances kind of
ability to recognize these opportunities.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Specifically, if you ask me one thing about sometimes I
find the narrative of HG, I'll make one introductory comment
that is not an answer to your question, but it's
where I come from personally. As I when I think
about this as a leader from my institution, I often
hear us about the narrative of the transition, and it
(13:26):
is a very very narrative, a very negative narrative, and
we have to be careful with that. Yes, we must
see it from a risk perspective, but you also must
see it when you're an investor, as an opportunity to invest.
And this is often lost a little bit. And I
(13:50):
warn people who are in the room here and are
part of sustainable investment, a chief sustainability offices and all
of that. In different kinds of institutions, we we a
lot of our culture and philosophy come from the risk culture,
and and we meet at the moment. I feel in
(14:13):
some institutions there's a like, we must not lose the
dialogue with the investors in our institutions with the one
with the companies that we're doing business with. And that's
why I put a lot of emphasis on this So
that's one thing that's not an answer to your question.
I'm coming to the answer to but that just shows
(14:34):
you that we must think about doing it differently and
think about us. We are a pension fund quote unquote,
when you think about it, is a lot of what
we do is related is a pension fund. A lot
we have other investors, but it's a significant part of
what we do. We have built a sixty seven kilometers,
(15:03):
we've designed, built, and we're managing and we're going to
operate and we're operating sixty seven kilometers of light rail
train around Montreal. You know, it's the longest automated light
rail line in the world. This is something that actually
has reduces you know, the emissions by one hundred thousand
(15:28):
tons a year. It's a virtual circle when whenever you're
a Quebecer you sit on that train, you're basically paying
helping your pensions. It's a model that has been recognized
for its efficiency. I mean, I'll brag about it for
one second because I'm in Toronto and you have some
(15:50):
issues with some of the but like, it's the least expensive,
least expensive new public transit system built in North America.
It's one hundred and fifty million by the kumilomitter. And
I won't ask you what is the cost of the
Egglinton line. But I've been a resident. I'm a big
(16:12):
fan of Toronto. I've been a proud resident of this
city for my family for eleven years. So I can
do that when I'm in Toronto and talk. But it
just shows you that there's a different role for investors
in the transition. And for example, that brings us to
blended finance that has been made possible through a blended
(16:36):
finance arrangement with the Government of Quebec, the Government of Canada,
Iidro Quebec or is the energy supplier, the municipalities that
it goes through, the airport in Montreal and all of that.
This is the way of the future. When you think
about that, a lot of the things we need to
be doing in the transition. The risk return equation will
(16:56):
not be quite right for institution investors. It will not
be quite right either for governments because they cannot put
that on their balance sheet because they won't have the
physical space. It is not something that can be done
by philanthropy. It is not something that can be solved
alone by technology, and we need to actually come together
(17:19):
in a way that we've never done before. Really, And
so this is why I'm telling you we need to
think differently about risk. We need to think differently about opportunities.
When we don't know something, we tend to overestimate the risk,
underestimate the opportunities. And actually we need to think differently
about partnerships. And we need to partner with an organization
(17:45):
that we're not used to partner with. And this is
a big thing for us. You know, governments, you know
they kind of know what we do, the institution, investors,
the Maple Aid in Canada, but not really. And we
kind of know how they operate in governments, but not really.
And then the philanthropy. So we all need to learn
(18:11):
to work together and spend more time thinking about how
we're going to make these partnership works because they are
essential to the transition. Just think about it that it
is both in the developed world and in the developing world.
And forget one thing I want to I would just
to make sure that I'm a little respectful also of
(18:34):
my experience at the UN and all of that. If
the transition does not happen in the South, it will
not happen in the world, and we sometimes forget it
and we say, now, that's not an issue for us. Well,
those of us who believe we have a strong role,
an important role to play in the transition, we also
(18:57):
need to think about how we're going to play that
role in some other parts of the world. Just think
about it, Southeast Asia in the next I think I'm
not precise on that number, so just don't hold it
against me, But in the next ten to fifteen years,
we'll actually be consuming the entire if we let it go.
(19:17):
If we let the situation go with the way it
is at the moment and with the growth they have,
they will be eating the entire carbon budget of the
planet just them alone. So we need to think about
how we're going to be part of that solution as well.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Absolutely, I won't wait until the rivalry between Montreal and Toronto,
but I do a friendship.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
We are very good friends and complementary in so many ways,
and so much stronger together, I'm sure. But I do
very much appreciate.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
You're bringing up the idea of blended finance. I think
it was, you know, one of the things that I
wanted to ask you about and I think the example
you gave of the light rail project in Montreal is
quite telling and powerful. So maybe going back to your
introductor your remarks, you mentioned the importance of engagement when
you think about, you know, cdpq's approach to sustainability, wondering
(20:17):
if you can, you know, tell us a little bit
more about how CDPQ engages with portfolio companies and how
critical that really is to progress.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
I and I was listening to the to anna from
teachers before they do engagement as well at teachers and
I salute them for that. And we're not alone doing this,
but I really believe if you're an asset owner, your role,
you have a big role to play with the engagement
with your portfolio companies. And this is this is to me,
(20:53):
this is very key to the future of what we
need to be doing. And just give you an example.
Last year, my team add three hundred interaction engagement with
our portfolio companies. And you know it goes from simply
raising awareness of HGS among our portfolio companies to helping
(21:15):
them design some of some plans to get to net
zero and looking at opportunities. I actually believe we really
need to go to the two point zero, in the
three point zero in the coming two three four years
of how we engage with our portfolio companies to really
(21:35):
it's again changing the narrative. We're not there to tick
boxes and ask them and only an investigation and ask
them for numbers and all of that and data. We're
also there to create value with them, and this is
the this is how we need to build that partnership,
(21:56):
and it's going to be good for the company, good
for the insitution investors, and good for the planet at
the same time. For example, my dream is to actually
bring CDPQ CDPQ, we own all sorts of participation in
companies that can contribute to so much to actually make
sure that some of our portfolio companies actually progress and
(22:19):
accelerate their progress on their net zero net zero pathway
and and so. But sometimes some of our companies cannot
do that alone. So if we do it together, if
we bring three, four, five, six, seven, ten of them
together with the right resources, then we can leap frog.
And I think it's the role of insution investors like
(22:40):
us to do that. But again that's a different role
than the traditional role that we had as an asset
owner and so we need that's how we need to
think about the partnership differently, the blended finance differently, the
way we look at the world differently.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Absolutely, the idea oftnership, I think ties into my next question.
So CDPQ is a signatory to both the Nature Action
one hundred and the Climate Action one hundred plus, and
you sit on the Board of Directors of the Executive
Committee of the Sustainable Markets Initiative. As I mentioned during
your introduction, I just want to hear, you know, maybe
(23:19):
some additional thoughts on the importance of these collaborations and
these initiatives for engagement.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Well, it's exactly. It goes right into what I was
just saying. The Sustainable Market Initiative was created when King
Charles the Third was Prince Charles, and it's now led
by Brian Monhan who is the CEO of Bank of America,
and it's between two hundred and fifty and three hundred
(23:49):
members that are there, and it's all at the very
high level, but it's all representatives of the real economy.
And that's why I love that it's a mess sometimes
because it has all sorts of vehicles in different industries
and it's a mess because we're all starting on this journey.
(24:09):
You know, we've never done it before, taking an entire
planet and transitioning it. So it's complex. How do you
deal with the issue that you've raised about sustainable aviation
a few feel a few minutes ago. I mean, you
need to deal with the production in agriculture. You need
(24:30):
to deal with the regulation in transportation, you need to
deal with the airport owners. You need to deal with
the aircraft manufacturer. You need to deal with the airlines.
You need to deal with the price tickets in some
developing market of the of the of the airline tickets
you need. It's endless, and so how do you need
to bring these people, the right people around the table
(24:52):
to actually make sure that we can develop the partnership
and the right investment platforms and all of that. And
that's what these groups do, like the Sustainable Market Initiatives.
You have other groups like the Net zero Alliance and
stuff that is more about standards and disclosure and that
that is very that is essential as well as a role.
But now what needs to be done is a lot
(25:14):
about doing We we now know the objectives that where
we have to go to for the most part, now
the issue is how are we going to get it done?
And this is a very tough part. I'm not saying
that the first the other what we've done so far
was easy, but I think what we have to do
now can be tough. But the opportunities linked to it
(25:39):
are really big and important and significant for for for everybody.
And and this is this is, this is part of
the difference. I'll show you. I'll give you an example
of a different partnership that I never thought would happened
in a few years ago the US Treasury, So we
(26:01):
created when canadastood the last G seven in twenty eighteen,
under Prime Minister Truro, we created the Investors Leadership Network.
It's a group of institutional investors from the G seven
that came together on climate, infrastructure and diversity. And the
group is still going on stronger than ever. Fourteen members,
(26:23):
ten trillion of assets under management, all the many of
the big players around there. And you know what, last year,
a year ago, we did an agreement with the US
Treasury to actually because on the transition, they wanted to
make sure that we were looking more closely at how
(26:46):
we could contribute to the transition in some parts of
the emerging markets, and that led to an agreement with
USTDA with is the US Trade the Development Agency to
actually a project preparation facility of one hundred million yes
available to the institution investor around the table who would
(27:10):
have taught and the and the leads on this agreement
were CDPQ, NETICXIS and in ninety one. None of these
funds are of the of Residency in the US. So
the US Treasury making an agreement with something flowing from
the G seven in Canada, that's fine, But then U,
(27:32):
S D S U S TDA that does something. And
with the US Treasury and three main institution investors representing
that group that are none of them are you are American?
So it just shows you that actually how people are
looking at this differently than before, and who would have
taught that institution investors would be interested in project preparation
(27:55):
on such a scale. And so this is this is
this is the new world that we live in and
we need to make progress on that. Because everybody recognized
what are the impediments to get the institution investors like
CDPQ to invest in the transition in some parts of
the world. Well, it's the lack of bankable projects. It
(28:18):
is the fact that we need some deriskking tools that
are at scale, and we need the de risk king
of the foreign exchange and we need as well access
to better information about the data of multilateral development banks.
And so just to finish on this because it's an
interesting topic that I'm also passionate about. When you look
(28:39):
at it, people talk about the reform of the World Bank.
Actually the actual president of the World Bank is a
great ag Bank is fantastic, is you know, giving a
lot of implementing a lot, pushing it through a lot
of reforms. But think about it. The institution investors, like
the one I represent in the world, all of us
(28:59):
can buy. All of the institution investors in the world
have nine hundred times nine hundred times more capital than
all of the multilateral development banks taken together. So when
the multilateral development banks were created sixty seventy years ago,
(29:22):
the institution investors did not really exist in the world.
Like us, We did not exist. We're sixty years old,
and so that's the world has changed. But the institution
are now catching up. And it's tough in this current
geopolitics actually to get the nimbleness that is needed to
(29:45):
do what we need to be doing. So that's why
you need this new kind of these new kinds of
partnership and new ways of thinking about the around these
problems and these issues. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
So maybe for our last question, you mentioned, of course
the US stress and its involvement in the project that
you just mentioned. Obviously, the Treasury plays a big role
in the Implesion Reduction Act, which in the US I
think continues to be described as kind of a great
example of the power of incentives, which is perhaps leads,
(30:16):
you know, back to this idea that you're mentioning of rethinking,
you know, how we're approaching these problems. So I just
wanted to hear maybe in the in the closing moments
here kind of how ultimately you view the balance between,
you know, the two regulatory approaches of you know, the
character versus the stick, or incentives versus penalties.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
So, you know, I'll tell you a story. When I
arrive as Ambassador of Canada to the UN, I was
coming from the private sector. I was sharing CEO of
Makarta Titro, one of Canada's national law firms, before I
was appointed by Prime Minister Trudro to the UN and
I arrived at the UN and I asked the Secretary General,
(30:58):
how can I help. I'm here, I'm Canada, I represent Canada,
and as you know, we're here to help. He said, well,
you know, we we have. We've just signed the Purse
Accord and we've just agreed on the SDGs. But he said,
we're so lucky to have someone from the private sector
(31:19):
coming to the UN because nobody's talking here about how
we're going to finance all of this. So you need
to bring that discussion to the u N. And that's
what I've tried for the for the four years. And
after I was there, then I went to see the
number two of the UN and I said, you know,
I said, how do you see the u N? And
(31:41):
how you know for someone like me coming from the outside.
He said, you only need to remember one thing. World
piece is like a stool that stands on three legs,
and the role of the UN is these three legs.
There's a leg on security, there's a leg on development,
(32:05):
and there's a leg on governance. And if you only
work on one legs of the stool, the stool will
not stand. There will be no world peace you need,
and you said, just understand that the world will be
always imperfect, but we all need always need to work
on security, development and governance at the same time. And
(32:27):
to me, really it struck me and I kept it
in my mind since then. It's the same thing with
what we're trying to do in the transition. If we
only work on the governance, which is the stick, I
actually believe it won't work. And we need we need
(32:50):
the governance, but we also need the opportunities, you know,
we need the development side, and and and whatever the
other leg you want, which is probably I think the stakeholders.
We need to work make sure that we also work
with the social license needed to get all of this
(33:13):
to be working together. So my point is with the RARA,
that was a great way of remembering or noticing that actually,
you know what, Yes, the stick works. It has moved
some capital, not as much as we would have liked,
(33:36):
and not as fast as we would have liked. We
have to notice that. And then you had the RARA
that was completely like a different approach, a carrot, not
a stick. Four hundred billion dollars of public money, no cap.
They now believe it's going to be six hundred billion.
(33:58):
The four hundred billion was supposed to trig one point
two trillion. The sixth underd billion will move one point
one point I do you have my math right in
one point eight whatever? From three times? Yes, one point eight.
So this is also a number that we have to
(34:20):
So we have difficulties putting our mind around. But you
know what, Just remember there's a in the South. In
the US, there's a debate about ESG, there's a debate
about climate, but without any I don't want to judge
anything in the US. But let's notice that what the
(34:41):
New York Times and CNN reminded us a few months
ago about the money. The money is going faster in
some Republican states who are not known to be the
most enthusiastic about the transition. Why. Some may say it's
(35:03):
because of regulation, but some may say all suits because
of the financial opportunities that are looked at. So my
point here is, let's use everything we have, and if
we only use one side, I actually build. That's why
I want to make sure that we have the right
narrative in place. We're still all human beings at the
(35:26):
end of the day, and our psychology works for that
as for other stuff, and you know, we tend to
be a risk averse when there's a gain and risk
taker when there's a loss, because we always think we
can postpone that loss, and so we tend. So I
(35:48):
invite us to think about also the carot and the
gain and make sure it's part of the story, because
I think there's room for the entire story there to
be part. We also need to be very realistic about
the challenges the urgency, but also let's not forget what
are the opportunities and how we can actually all benefit
(36:10):
from it. So thank you very much, wonderful.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
I think that's a great way to end, and thank
you so.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Much for joining us. Thank you, thank your pleasure.
Speaker 1 (36:25):
I think the idea of using everything we have to
address the climate challenge and making sure we tackle the
problem from all legs of the stool is a fantastic
way to conclude this conversation. And I want to thank
Mark Andre again for joining me at the Bloomberg Sustainable
Finance Forum for an on stage recording of the podcast.
I do also want to mention that the BIESG team
(36:46):
will be hosting a virtual conference on June fourth called
COP twenty eight point five, looking back on Dubai, looking
ahead to Baku. The event will include a panel on
funding the Transition, where I'm sure many of the concepts,
including blended finance that we discussed with Marc Andre, will
be talked about. You can find out more about the
(37:08):
virtual conference and register by clicking on the link in
this episode's description, And as always, you can find more
information on all things ESG by going to our dashboard
BI Space ESG go on the Bloomberg terminal, and if
you have an ESG quandary or burning question you would
like to ask bi's expert analysts, send us an email
(37:31):
at ESG Currents at Bloomberg dot net. Thank you very much,
and we'll see you next time.
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