August 17, 2021 • 31 mins
Imagine being the primary caretaker for your employer- making sure they take their medication, taking them to all their doctors appointments, cooking for them… the list goes on. For Denise, a domestic worker, the amount of jobs she does in a day is endless. Then the pandemic hit, and Denise didn’t stop caring for her employers. For domestic workers, many of whom are undocumented, the pandemic exacerbated a lack of protections that was already grave. Roundtable guest: Kristina Mevs-Apgar from the National Domestic Workers Alliance.
Learn more about the National Domestic Workers Alliance: https://www.domesticworkers.org/
Episode Transcript: https://app.trint.com/public/d3fb05ef-add2-4e40-8e0b-dc5993445053
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome back to Essential Voices. Welcome back, Mr Howdy Wilmer.
I'm excited for today's show. So today we're going to
hear from our essential worker, Denise Frederick. Denise is a
domestic worker whose responsibilities include being both a nanny and
a home attendant, and whose work didn't stop at all
as the world began to shut down around her due
to COVID. Denise shares with us what her day to
(00:23):
day life is like, along with the unique struggles faced
by domestic workers, especially those who are also undocumented immigrants.
And then to keep the conversation going, we'll have a
roundtable discussion with Christina mevs Apgar, who's the Culture Change
Director at the National Domestic Workers Alliance or the n
d w A for short. Not only does Christina speak
(00:44):
to us about the changes at the n d W
as lobbying for across the country, she also speaks to
the power of stories and the influence of popular culture
on how the public perceives are often overlooked domestic workers.
It's going to be a great conversation. Then story starts
right out. My name is Denise Frederick. I am a
(01:07):
worker leader, also a professional nanny and a home attendant.
Beautiful Dennis, thank you so much for talking to me today.
I've been a fan of what you do. I've seen
the direct impact of your work. How did you get
into it? How there's become a passion of yours. So
where I come from, I used to be a legal secretary,
(01:29):
and then when I moved to the US, you know,
as an undocumented immigrant, you really actually don't have a
wide variety of choices where you work. I wanted to
have gotten back and do the same bok that I
was doing, but then I would have to have a
degree to do that. I would also have to have
contact with somebody and experience. So it left me where
(01:53):
I was. The only thing I was able to have
done was domestic work. And here I am doing it,
and you know, I am very much into it. I
mean there are lots of ups and downs, but you
know it's a job that is important. It's like to me,
domestically is essentially is there something that happened that made
(02:14):
you go, wow, I really love this. I have my
love for kids because I only have I'm a single
parent with one child, so I have this love for kids.
So I'm going to go into the job wholeheartedly. My
main concern is making sure that the child is safe
and happy. So when I go and I perform my
(02:35):
job and the kids are happy, parents are satisfied, it
gives me such a great feeling, that of accomplishment that
I have done what I was supposed to do for
the day. As I think about the responsibility you have
in the workload that you have to embark in. You know,
then all of a sudden you introduce a pandemic, right,
(02:56):
and then all of a sudden, the world is just different.
What was those conversations like, where were those thoughts and
how did it all change since the pandemic. Parents have
been working from home. And when you're working from home,
you have those little kids running around mommy, mommy, mommy, daddy, daddy, daddy, daddy.
It's very distracting and you're not able to perform. So
(03:18):
we domestic workers, we nannies, We come in, we take
those kids, some of them, we have them out for
the entire day because having them in the house it's
a little noisy. And you know, we allow parents to work.
We would have forgotten workers of the country. And then
even in New York City fifteen dollars is the minimum
(03:41):
wage right now, But can you really live a fifteen
dollars in New York City? No? And the amount of
work that you do within your shift, it's crazy. And
there are some workers who work hours fifty hours a week. Wow.
(04:01):
And these employers, they're away that the work week is
for the hour. They are aware of that, But do
they uphold that and allow workers to work forty hours
a week and pay them over time? Most of them don't.
So that's where the exploitation of domestic workers starts to happen.
(04:25):
And it's been going on for years. You see some
ads telling you they want you to do housekeeping, walk
the dog, do the laundry, take care of the kids,
and give the kids of your attention. We're not robots.
That's not gonna happen. You know, a housekeeper as a housekeeper,
a cleaner is a cleaner, and a nanny's a nanny,
(04:46):
or a home attendant is a home attendant. But are
they all fall under the umbrella of domestic workers because
you go into somebody's house to work, then they tell you, okay,
well you're essential, which I mean, I think you're in
our on the same page when it comes to the
world essential, you know, because you're not allowed to go home,
(05:06):
you're not allowed to you know, really take care of
yourself or at oftentimes the families are now not comfortable
having you coming to the house after so many years, right,
I mean, and that's a really interesting thing to talk about,
because one thing is like, well, either you live here
in your quarantine with us and keep your job, or
like we just can't have your coming in out right.
So was that a conversation? Was that happening during the
(05:28):
stay at home orders and quarantines? My afternoon job as
soon as it was a shelter in place. They went
up to Boston. When they moved back to the city
in September, is when I started about working. So you know,
it was easy for me to commute to and from
working with them, unlike other domestic work. And somebody might
(05:50):
know how to walk to work, find their own mode
of transportation because I mean, being undocumented, some driver's license,
and you know a lot of them work throughout the pandemic.
A lot of domestic workers died from contracting COVID. Other
workers weren't as fortunate as me. We're workers, we're working
(06:10):
in families for thirteen years and their families just picked
up and left. And you know, some of those workers
they were not included in the similar package because they
were underdocumented and they were not able to get any
fun us. So they were workers who are way behind
in the rent. And you know, it showed a lot
of I guess shortcomings of the profession. You know, if
(06:34):
a worker gets COVID, what is the sickly, what do
you get and what insurance do you have? And like
it's such a high opening to hear all these stories
because they undocumented and just immigrant workers in general take
these jobs that most people often think that they're done magically,
that they just happened, like you know, out of sight,
(06:56):
out of mind, because we really and truly we we
work independent. We have nobody to go to to air
our complaints. We have no HR, so we go down.
Some of these workers suffers such cruelty and in your
mid things have been done to them that when you
hear those horror stories, you're just like, God, this is
not happening to people, but it happens. So as a community,
(07:21):
what we would like for every people out there to
do is call your representatives, tell them to support violence
infrastructure plan. It's our best opportunity to take nationwide action
right now. In the meantime, employers can provide the employees
with paid time off, paid sickly and a decent living
(07:42):
which domestic workers has one bill of rights intense states,
and it's time for domestic workers to have protection all
fifty states. I love that, and I'm excited to carry
this conversation and bringing it to as many people as possible,
to continue to broadcast that signal. You know, how do
we support that bill? And how a wee continue to
have this conversation so it kind of evolves and becomes
(08:04):
a lot more comprehensive. I feel like the families who
have experienced the profession, your expertise, your wisdom, your love
can really appreciate how to get behind this. And I
really think there's got to be a place where you
can go to feel not just heard, but to have
some type of authority that can really create a safer
(08:27):
environment that has boundaries. I wonder, you know, is there
other things that anything else that you would want people
to know that they maybe didn't understand that you had
to endure. You know, how do you even cope with
some of the stories that you mentioned. You know what
I mean is there's anything that you would want people
to know more of um, anything to be more aware of.
(08:48):
You know, Domestico has been going on for ages. What
I would like to live with people out there is
the time is now for us to fight for our
rights as domestic workers. I want them to do that.
Care jobs should be good jobs, jobs that are well
paid with benefits training. We need to have the ability
(09:11):
to join a union, just as a cappin could do
you know, provide process for qualified current and future care
workers who are undocumented, even for us to gain a
pathway to citizenship or even residency, like you know, because
we are really the backbone, you know, we are the
ones making things happen. Dennis, thank you for talking to
(09:36):
me today and giving me your time. And you know,
the long lasting effect of what you do ripples that
god decades of our lives beyond the engagement, and it's
something that we we learn from and it's made as
better people. And so I appreciate you and all my
love to you, and and thank you continue to work
and the advocacy. Thank you for appreciating us. Thank you.
(10:01):
Denise's story highlights so much work that gets taken for granted,
there are so few protections in place for domestic workers
to have fair labor practices, especially as Denise underscores, for
undocumented domestic workers. As de Niece said, there's no HR department,
and we need to figure out the best way to
support the folks, saying as the rest of us literally
(10:21):
cannot do our jobs without them. On that note, when
we come back, we'll talk to Christina, Meg's av guard
about getting that conversation going. Christina, thank you so much
for listening, Thank you for being here. It's exciting to
dive deeper into the previous conversation and really understand from
(10:44):
a holistic perspective what other places we can go, how
much more involved we can be. And then starting with that,
I know m R. You wanted to start a discussion
and dive right in. We're here today speaking with Christina
from the National Domestic Workers Alliance. Christie A welcome. So
for folks who aren't familiar with the nd w A,
(11:05):
could you describe what the d w A does and
what your role is with the organization. So my name's
Christina mevs Apgar and I am the Culture change director
at the National Domestic Workers Alliance. We represent house cleaners, nannies,
and home care workers. UM there's about two point five
million in the US. They are overwhelmingly women, largely women
(11:28):
of color, many undocumented, largely immigrant workforce as well, and
because of this, there are many intersecting identities there that
contain a lot of core vulnerabilities. So we really advocate
for gender justice, racial justice, labor justice, immigrant rights. We
really are on the front lines of representing the whole
(11:49):
identities of our workforce. So as the Culture change director,
what I'm responsible for is I work right at the
intersection of pop culture and our movement. So as I'm
sure you can appreciate, UM, we believe that culture matters,
art matters, stories matter, storytelling really matters, and for us
(12:11):
to win dignity, respect, power for our workers, it's not
enough to just win policy. Policy is important, you know,
but policy is not going to take hold if it's
not a cultural norm that the masses think and feel
and behave that way. So that's my core responsibility is
(12:34):
to use art and storytelling and partnerships and innovative ways
to tell story and work alongside the incredible work that
our domestic worker leaders are doing organizing. Wow, that's incredible
to hear storytelling definitely at the core of why we're
here today. Reflecting on Denise's story and what she shared. So,
(12:56):
can you describe how you're using storytelling in the arts
to promote that cultural shift that you're speaking of. Yeah,
So for us, we look at some keen narratives that
we believe need to shift. And I'll speak about this
a little bit more later, but the pandemic, while devastating
for our industry, actually really brought to the surface a
(13:18):
lot of the core narratives that the public needed to realize,
including that this work is essential. So what we do
is we have a podcast called Sunstorm hosted by a
Gun Poo and Alicia Garza, where we talked to great
female women of color leaders about the issues of our time.
We center the work of our workforce of care we
(13:41):
work in entertainment. We make sure that stories of domestic
workers on film and TV are accurate and timely and nuanced.
We create a lot of content. We anchor the Families
Belong Together campaign, and we created a coloring book called
Coloring Without Borders because you know, time to engage kids
(14:04):
talk about borders and what separates us and talk to
parents and families. And so those are some examples of
the sort of work we do. We work a lot
partnering with artists and storytellers. We create murals, art installations.
We even, you know, go to TikTok. We're trying to
be hip. We did our first TikTok fun thing the
(14:25):
other day. UM, you know, we try to follow the culture,
build relationships, um, and tell stories. I'm familiar with some
of the initiatives that you've done, specifically with the families
and the coloring book and all of that. I remember
when I first got that book. I I said to myself, well,
I've never seen a children's book so effortlessly infuse something
(14:48):
so real. I also wonder, when you talk about the
undocumented domestic workers, how do you even reach out for
them to know that you exist? I mean, how do
you even find ended? How do they find you? Right?
I mean, I know this is kind of like an
out of water question, but I mean you kind of
really trigger something to me because you have a statistic
number of how many are they out there and specifically
(15:11):
within your network, but how many of them are there
that don't really exist in any of the books around
the community. Yeah, so I started at and d w
A a a little over four years ago, and I remember
when I started hearing kind of really what is the
core of what we do? And the core is organizing.
(15:31):
And when and d w A founded, they said that
this industry was unorganizable, like you couldn't organize it. These
are women who work in our homes. There's no like,
Denis said, HR Department, There's no like meeting at the
water cooler to share your stories. There's multiple employers, it's
not one employer with tons of employees. But you know,
(15:54):
every group of people can be organized. You just need
amazing organizers. And domestic workers are the best organizers. They
are for domestic workers. So our movement is led by centered,
run by powered by domestic workers themselves. So Denise is
one of our workers leaders. In New York. We have
an incredible New York chapter leader, Allison, who's been involved
(16:15):
from the beginning, former domestic worker who you know, our
first state Bill of Rights happened in New York, New
York State, and so she was one of the first
powerful leaders our organization had. So she be in parks,
our organizers were in parks talking to other nanny's really
doing the deep organizing and getting to know people. And
(16:36):
when you build leaders who are from the community, that's
how you continue to build power and build community. And
we really consider ourselves a home for domestic workers. These
workers work in our homes, but we are also a home.
So it's not easy, but it can be done, and
we work really hard and you know it can be done.
(16:59):
We'll be right back after this break. Welcome back to
Essential Voices. Yeah, what you're describing about domestic workers speaking
with other domestic workers in parks, that's truly how organizing
starts from the ground up, being for and from the
community that's being organized. And then to address what you
(17:19):
were talking about, Wilmer, I think you were curious about
and alluding to the elephant in the room, undocumented domestic workers.
And this ties back into when Denise shared with us
just how many undocumented domestic workers there are and how
there's virtually no support in place for these undocumented domestic workers.
(17:40):
So Christina, can you raise awareness about the efforts that
the n d w A has in place for undocumented
domestic workers. Yeah, I mean when you hear Denise the
story and then you think about the pandemic. You really
see how vulnerable domestic workers are when the bottom falls out,
and in particular if they are undocumented. And we say
(18:03):
that this industry is like the wild world West because
each workplace which it is a workplace, every home is
a workplace, because there is no standards, no rights, you know,
no regulation. It's up to the individual employer. You are
at the whim of your employer. There if something happens,
you cannot go to hr wage. Stuff happens all the time,
(18:25):
so inherently there's a lack of structure to handle conflicts.
There is no formal process. And this workforce does not
have benefits, does not have paid time off, there are
not mandates for that, you know. Before our first New
York Bill of Rights, this workforce was largely left out
of all of our traditional labor laws that we all
(18:48):
take for granted. You know, she mentioned in the interview
forty hour work week. Well, domestic workers were excluded from those,
you know laws. They've been historically excluded due to races
them and the legacy of slavery and compromises with Southern legislators.
So to solve for this, we did state based bill
(19:10):
of rights, and so we were creating that floor of rights, standards,
paid time off, many of the things that you know
a lot of us take for granted, and we've had
a lot of success with that ten states. Now we
also have cities who have passed bill of rights. We
have Seattle, Philadelphia, UM. Just this week, New Jersey introduced
(19:35):
a Bill of rights, which is really exciting. That's my
home state, and we introduced two years ago our federal
Domestic Worker Bill of Rights. So it's time, it's past
time to have these rights, this baseline to ensure the
protections of this workforce, and so you know, it is time.
(19:56):
And that's how you can make sure that domestic workers,
including vulnerable workers like Denise, who quite frequently because they
are undocumented, there's even more vulnerability because their employers know
that they are in this precarious situation. There's no more
for them to go. So that is what we can do. Now,
can you provide specifics for folks who may not know
(20:17):
what exactly the Bill of Rights is hoping to accomplish
for domestic workers and what the bill entails. A livable
wage is definitely the most important. These jobs are often
underpaid and undervalued. Which is something that is still hard
to wrap your head around when you think about that
these jobs take care of some of the most precious
things in our lives, which is our loved ones and
(20:39):
our homes. There's not much more the weak value than
that UM livable wage, UM benefits, paid time off, sick days,
forty hour work week, ensuring over time and training. And
then also we've done a lot of innovation with our
Bill of Rights as we've gone on, and we've needed
(21:00):
UM boards where employers and domestic workers come together to
figure out what is reasonable, what is fair, what is
you know, what is working, what is not, and really
have that ongoing conversation about how the industry can thrive
and how our workforce can thrive. So those are just
some of the key provisions, and we're really excited that
we're going to be reintroducing the Federal Domestic Worker Bill
(21:24):
of Rights next month in July, and the follow up
to our beautiful Essential worker Chad, what is the path dissolution?
You know? How can we really get involved? You know?
And I think that it's important for people to know
that enough signatures and enough phone calls create a ripple
effect that they cannot deny. So you think about, oh,
I'm gonna call my Okay, I'm one phone call or
(21:44):
I'm one vote, which was the multi hundred year old daylima,
what is one vote going to do? You know? But
we've seen the effect of what one or a thousand
votes could do. So I just really think about really
understanding and how to provide some of our listeners in
this converse station with Look, it really does work, you know,
and and we all work together to change something you will.
(22:06):
So Mr, before we jump into some solutions, it would
be great if you can share a specific anecdote or
a story circling back kind of to how you shared
that the n d w A is channeling the power
of storytelling to promote that cultural shift for supporting domestic
workers that we were talking about earlier, and so to
that end, can you share a story that you've experienced
(22:29):
firsthand when storytelling has been really impactful for making community
base changed related to your work. So, within the first
couple of months of me working at the National Domestic
Workers Alliance, we organized a kids caravan of children who
traveled by bus from Florida to the White House to
(22:53):
tell the Trump administration to value you know, and to
stop attacking immigrants and to provide a pathway. And it
was this group of children who were twelve years old,
and they came from what we call mixed status families,
So some of the children, you know, had been born
in the US. They'd have a parent that was undocumented,
(23:15):
one that was potentially had a green card. You know.
It was each family had a different um personal situation.
And there was this one girl, Leiah, who was so
powerful and her mother was a dreamer, and I just
couldn't believe the courage of this young woman. She later
(23:36):
went on to when Families Belong Together held a huge
rally in DC. She gave a speech that had all
of us weeping, and it was so powerful seeing this
young girl speak for her family. And I remember thinking
to myself, what was I doing when I was twelve
(23:56):
and I didn't have to protect my mother? And this
girl should be in middle school and her worst concern
should be, you know, a subject she doesn't like in school,
and instead she just took a bus over like forty
eight hours to d C. And she is speaking in
front of a crowd on a megaphone in a way
(24:17):
that I as you know, a thirty something year old
woman would be intimidated by and that really struck me,
and that has continued to stick with me. And whenever
you know, she's still a leader, she's getting older. It's
been four years, and whenever I see her name or
see her face, it humbles me and it inspires me.
(24:38):
Her mother is a domestic worker. So again you see
these intersecting identities, and you really see people not just
for their titles domestic worker, essential worker, undocumented, you know, dreamer,
you know their whole humans. And you know, we get
to decide the culture we create and who who we
(25:01):
value and how we value. And I think it's stories
like that that actually really show the value of the woman.
You know, not just the value of the work that
she provides to the community, but these women are strong,
powerful women of color who our core members of their community.
(25:24):
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, that really leads nicely into talking
about community based solutions. Because we've heard about bills, and
we've heard about infrastructure, But what can you suggest that
listeners do in their spare time to spread the word
about supporting domestic workers. So I would say that, yes,
(25:44):
your phone calls to your elected officials work, you might think, oh,
I'm just a drop in the bucket. But it works
because you are telling your elected official as a constituent,
what matters to you and what should be at the
top of their list and what issues. You know, when
you say I care about care, infrastructure and the care economy,
(26:06):
and pass this bill past this infrastructure bill. This matters
to me. This is at the top of my agenda.
You know. I know sometimes the scripts can be confusing
for people. Just call say you're a constituent, you know,
and say this issue matters to me, and you work
for me, and add your voice to the tally, because
(26:28):
it is when the tally ratchets up and we have
a sea of people all saying that something matters to them.
People do listen, you know. If you say immigration matters,
I want to support my immigrant members of my community.
They are core pieces of our community and this is
(26:48):
important to me. So those phone calls work, those petitions work,
that flurry of activity works. People notice are elected officials
are accountable, So that definitely works. And I'd also say
that there's a role for everyone. So if we have
a mobilization and where like everyone get on the streets.
(27:09):
If that's not for you, that's okay, there's a role
for you. You can make a call, or you can
talk to your friend or you know, when you see
online us talking about the importance of like I said,
New Jersey introducing a state bill of rights, share it
with on Facebook. Maybe some of your neighbors employed domestic workers.
(27:29):
Maybe they'll message you and go, oh, what is this?
Can my domestic worker join this this organization? Where's the
link for that? Oh? Should I think of good practices?
I have a house cleaner? What are good practices? What
should I be providing? So it starts a conversation and
there is something for everyone. As we talk about how
(27:54):
these phone calls really do work. It's exciting to remind
us all why they do work, Like what is the
science behind a phone call? Is that the more phone
calls that are going the more this subject becomes a
major signal that's coming out of that sector. And that
official has to now answer to that because that is
exactly what he's hired to do, to listen to the
(28:14):
people's interests. We often times are very confused, like why
one phone call? But it's not just one phone call,
you know, just like you you representing people that might
have made that phone call, and then there's another phone
call and another focal. Now you're talking about thirty people
that actually are representating those three phone calls, so it
really kind of multiplies, and you have a major responsibility
to to make those phone calls. And that's exciting that
(28:36):
you drove that, Christina. I was really grateful for that.
And Mark, Christina, is there anything else that you want
to share with us, whether it's an anecdote or an action,
or anything that we didn't cover that you want to
make sure that folks are aware of. Yeah, I think
I'll just really say again that there is a role
for everyone in our movement. You don't have to be
(28:58):
an employer. You don't have to be you know, someone
who is ready to march, you don't have to be.
There's a role for everyone. Go to Domestic workers dot org,
join the movement and there's a place for you. There
is power in numbers, there's a power with all of us,
and we are all connected and care is really at
(29:18):
the center of our lives. And I think something that
the pandemic really showed to us all is that we
all have stories relating to care, whether it's a loved one,
or our community, all the mutual aid groups that popped up.
You know, care is really at the center. So the
women that do this work, domestic workers, you know, we
(29:40):
need to show that we value them by actually, you know,
paying them a livable wage and providing benefits and training
and a pathway to the documentation. And that's all possible.
We get to decide, We get to decide. I'm so
happy that we can uplift Denise's story today and help
(30:02):
shine a light on how to change the narrative around
domestic workers. Christina makes such a good point about how
culture needs to change along with policy. Yeah, I agree
that culture needs to change along with policy, but also
policy needs to change. And while the infrastructure bill that
Denise mentioned has changed since we recorded with her, there
are plenty of other bills that are being drafted as
(30:24):
we speak in order to protect women and other domestic
workers like Denise. So we encourage everyone to learn more
about what's going on in their local communities and also
to check out the work that the National Domestic Workers
Alliance is doing. Join us next time to hear us
talk to our next essential worker training a legal aid attorney.
Follow up by a roundtable discussion with guests Console member
(30:46):
Needi a Reman of the Los Angeles City Council and
Yvonne Marihi Menez, the CEO of Neighborhood Legal Services of
Los Angeles Counting. Thank you for joining us Essential Voices
with Wolmer val Drama is produced by me mr Ricka,
l Alison Shano and Kevin Rotkowski, with production support from
associate producer Lillian Holman. Executive producers Wilma val Drama, Adam Reynolds,
(31:10):
Leo Clem and Aaron Hilliard. This episode was edited by
Sean Tracy and Luigi Villanueva and features original music by
Will Risotti. Special thanks to this week's Essential Voice, Denise Frederick,
to Zamina Mahea for connecting us, and to our thought
leader Christina mevs Apgar from the National Domestic Workers Alliance.
Additional thanks to Melanie Murray, Sylvie snow Thomas, and Sedidra Harris.
(31:32):
This is a Clamor and w V Entertainment production in
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Welcome back to Essential Voices. Welcome back, Mr Howdy Wilmer.
I'm excited for today's show. So today we're going to
hear from our essential worker, Denise Frederick. Denise is a
domestic worker whose responsibilities include being both a nanny and
a home attendant, and whose work didn't stop at all
as the world began to shut down around her due
to COVID. Denise shares with us what her day to
(00:23):
day life is like, along with the unique struggles faced
by domestic workers, especially those who are also undocumented immigrants.
And then to keep the conversation going, we'll have a
roundtable discussion with Christina mevs Apgar, who's the Culture Change
Director at the National Domestic Workers Alliance or the n
d w A for short. Not only does Christina speak
(00:44):
to us about the changes at the n d W
as lobbying for across the country, she also speaks to
the power of stories and the influence of popular culture
on how the public perceives are often overlooked domestic workers.
It's going to be a great conversation. Then story starts
right out. My name is Denise Frederick. I am a
(01:07):
worker leader, also a professional nanny and a home attendant.
Beautiful Dennis, thank you so much for talking to me today.
I've been a fan of what you do. I've seen
the direct impact of your work. How did you get
into it? How there's become a passion of yours. So
where I come from, I used to be a legal secretary,
(01:29):
and then when I moved to the US, you know,
as an undocumented immigrant, you really actually don't have a
wide variety of choices where you work. I wanted to
have gotten back and do the same bok that I
was doing, but then I would have to have a
degree to do that. I would also have to have
contact with somebody and experience. So it left me where
(01:53):
I was. The only thing I was able to have
done was domestic work. And here I am doing it,
and you know, I am very much into it. I
mean there are lots of ups and downs, but you
know it's a job that is important. It's like to me,
domestically is essentially is there something that happened that made
(02:14):
you go, wow, I really love this. I have my
love for kids because I only have I'm a single
parent with one child, so I have this love for kids.
So I'm going to go into the job wholeheartedly. My
main concern is making sure that the child is safe
and happy. So when I go and I perform my
(02:35):
job and the kids are happy, parents are satisfied, it
gives me such a great feeling, that of accomplishment that
I have done what I was supposed to do for
the day. As I think about the responsibility you have
in the workload that you have to embark in. You know,
then all of a sudden you introduce a pandemic, right,
(02:56):
and then all of a sudden, the world is just different.
What was those conversations like, where were those thoughts and
how did it all change since the pandemic. Parents have
been working from home. And when you're working from home,
you have those little kids running around mommy, mommy, mommy, daddy, daddy, daddy, daddy.
It's very distracting and you're not able to perform. So
(03:18):
we domestic workers, we nannies, We come in, we take
those kids, some of them, we have them out for
the entire day because having them in the house it's
a little noisy. And you know, we allow parents to work.
We would have forgotten workers of the country. And then
even in New York City fifteen dollars is the minimum
(03:41):
wage right now, But can you really live a fifteen
dollars in New York City? No? And the amount of
work that you do within your shift, it's crazy. And
there are some workers who work hours fifty hours a week. Wow.
(04:01):
And these employers, they're away that the work week is
for the hour. They are aware of that, But do
they uphold that and allow workers to work forty hours
a week and pay them over time? Most of them don't.
So that's where the exploitation of domestic workers starts to happen.
(04:25):
And it's been going on for years. You see some
ads telling you they want you to do housekeeping, walk
the dog, do the laundry, take care of the kids,
and give the kids of your attention. We're not robots.
That's not gonna happen. You know, a housekeeper as a housekeeper,
a cleaner is a cleaner, and a nanny's a nanny,
(04:46):
or a home attendant is a home attendant. But are
they all fall under the umbrella of domestic workers because
you go into somebody's house to work, then they tell you, okay,
well you're essential, which I mean, I think you're in
our on the same page when it comes to the
world essential, you know, because you're not allowed to go home,
(05:06):
you're not allowed to you know, really take care of
yourself or at oftentimes the families are now not comfortable
having you coming to the house after so many years, right,
I mean, and that's a really interesting thing to talk about,
because one thing is like, well, either you live here
in your quarantine with us and keep your job, or
like we just can't have your coming in out right.
So was that a conversation? Was that happening during the
(05:28):
stay at home orders and quarantines? My afternoon job as
soon as it was a shelter in place. They went
up to Boston. When they moved back to the city
in September, is when I started about working. So you know,
it was easy for me to commute to and from
working with them, unlike other domestic work. And somebody might
(05:50):
know how to walk to work, find their own mode
of transportation because I mean, being undocumented, some driver's license,
and you know a lot of them work throughout the pandemic.
A lot of domestic workers died from contracting COVID. Other
workers weren't as fortunate as me. We're workers, we're working
(06:10):
in families for thirteen years and their families just picked
up and left. And you know, some of those workers
they were not included in the similar package because they
were underdocumented and they were not able to get any
fun us. So they were workers who are way behind
in the rent. And you know, it showed a lot
of I guess shortcomings of the profession. You know, if
(06:34):
a worker gets COVID, what is the sickly, what do
you get and what insurance do you have? And like
it's such a high opening to hear all these stories
because they undocumented and just immigrant workers in general take
these jobs that most people often think that they're done magically,
that they just happened, like you know, out of sight,
(06:56):
out of mind, because we really and truly we we
work independent. We have nobody to go to to air
our complaints. We have no HR, so we go down.
Some of these workers suffers such cruelty and in your
mid things have been done to them that when you
hear those horror stories, you're just like, God, this is
not happening to people, but it happens. So as a community,
(07:21):
what we would like for every people out there to
do is call your representatives, tell them to support violence
infrastructure plan. It's our best opportunity to take nationwide action
right now. In the meantime, employers can provide the employees
with paid time off, paid sickly and a decent living
(07:42):
which domestic workers has one bill of rights intense states,
and it's time for domestic workers to have protection all
fifty states. I love that, and I'm excited to carry
this conversation and bringing it to as many people as possible,
to continue to broadcast that signal. You know, how do
we support that bill? And how a wee continue to
have this conversation so it kind of evolves and becomes
(08:04):
a lot more comprehensive. I feel like the families who
have experienced the profession, your expertise, your wisdom, your love
can really appreciate how to get behind this. And I
really think there's got to be a place where you
can go to feel not just heard, but to have
some type of authority that can really create a safer
(08:27):
environment that has boundaries. I wonder, you know, is there
other things that anything else that you would want people
to know that they maybe didn't understand that you had
to endure. You know, how do you even cope with
some of the stories that you mentioned. You know what
I mean is there's anything that you would want people
to know more of um, anything to be more aware of.
(08:48):
You know, Domestico has been going on for ages. What
I would like to live with people out there is
the time is now for us to fight for our
rights as domestic workers. I want them to do that.
Care jobs should be good jobs, jobs that are well
paid with benefits training. We need to have the ability
(09:11):
to join a union, just as a cappin could do
you know, provide process for qualified current and future care
workers who are undocumented, even for us to gain a
pathway to citizenship or even residency, like you know, because
we are really the backbone, you know, we are the
ones making things happen. Dennis, thank you for talking to
(09:36):
me today and giving me your time. And you know,
the long lasting effect of what you do ripples that
god decades of our lives beyond the engagement, and it's
something that we we learn from and it's made as
better people. And so I appreciate you and all my
love to you, and and thank you continue to work
and the advocacy. Thank you for appreciating us. Thank you.
(10:01):
Denise's story highlights so much work that gets taken for granted,
there are so few protections in place for domestic workers
to have fair labor practices, especially as Denise underscores, for
undocumented domestic workers. As de Niece said, there's no HR department,
and we need to figure out the best way to
support the folks, saying as the rest of us literally
(10:21):
cannot do our jobs without them. On that note, when
we come back, we'll talk to Christina, Meg's av guard
about getting that conversation going. Christina, thank you so much
for listening, Thank you for being here. It's exciting to
dive deeper into the previous conversation and really understand from
(10:44):
a holistic perspective what other places we can go, how
much more involved we can be. And then starting with that,
I know m R. You wanted to start a discussion
and dive right in. We're here today speaking with Christina
from the National Domestic Workers Alliance. Christie A welcome. So
for folks who aren't familiar with the nd w A,
(11:05):
could you describe what the d w A does and
what your role is with the organization. So my name's
Christina mevs Apgar and I am the Culture change director
at the National Domestic Workers Alliance. We represent house cleaners, nannies,
and home care workers. UM there's about two point five
million in the US. They are overwhelmingly women, largely women
(11:28):
of color, many undocumented, largely immigrant workforce as well, and
because of this, there are many intersecting identities there that
contain a lot of core vulnerabilities. So we really advocate
for gender justice, racial justice, labor justice, immigrant rights. We
really are on the front lines of representing the whole
(11:49):
identities of our workforce. So as the Culture change director,
what I'm responsible for is I work right at the
intersection of pop culture and our movement. So as I'm
sure you can appreciate, UM, we believe that culture matters,
art matters, stories matter, storytelling really matters, and for us
(12:11):
to win dignity, respect, power for our workers, it's not
enough to just win policy. Policy is important, you know,
but policy is not going to take hold if it's
not a cultural norm that the masses think and feel
and behave that way. So that's my core responsibility is
(12:34):
to use art and storytelling and partnerships and innovative ways
to tell story and work alongside the incredible work that
our domestic worker leaders are doing organizing. Wow, that's incredible
to hear storytelling definitely at the core of why we're
here today. Reflecting on Denise's story and what she shared. So,
(12:56):
can you describe how you're using storytelling in the arts
to promote that cultural shift that you're speaking of. Yeah,
So for us, we look at some keen narratives that
we believe need to shift. And I'll speak about this
a little bit more later, but the pandemic, while devastating
for our industry, actually really brought to the surface a
(13:18):
lot of the core narratives that the public needed to realize,
including that this work is essential. So what we do
is we have a podcast called Sunstorm hosted by a
Gun Poo and Alicia Garza, where we talked to great
female women of color leaders about the issues of our time.
We center the work of our workforce of care we
(13:41):
work in entertainment. We make sure that stories of domestic
workers on film and TV are accurate and timely and nuanced.
We create a lot of content. We anchor the Families
Belong Together campaign, and we created a coloring book called
Coloring Without Borders because you know, time to engage kids
(14:04):
talk about borders and what separates us and talk to
parents and families. And so those are some examples of
the sort of work we do. We work a lot
partnering with artists and storytellers. We create murals, art installations.
We even, you know, go to TikTok. We're trying to
be hip. We did our first TikTok fun thing the
(14:25):
other day. UM, you know, we try to follow the culture,
build relationships, um, and tell stories. I'm familiar with some
of the initiatives that you've done, specifically with the families
and the coloring book and all of that. I remember
when I first got that book. I I said to myself, well,
I've never seen a children's book so effortlessly infuse something
(14:48):
so real. I also wonder, when you talk about the
undocumented domestic workers, how do you even reach out for
them to know that you exist? I mean, how do
you even find ended? How do they find you? Right?
I mean, I know this is kind of like an
out of water question, but I mean you kind of
really trigger something to me because you have a statistic
number of how many are they out there and specifically
(15:11):
within your network, but how many of them are there
that don't really exist in any of the books around
the community. Yeah, so I started at and d w
A a a little over four years ago, and I remember
when I started hearing kind of really what is the
core of what we do? And the core is organizing.
(15:31):
And when and d w A founded, they said that
this industry was unorganizable, like you couldn't organize it. These
are women who work in our homes. There's no like,
Denis said, HR Department, There's no like meeting at the
water cooler to share your stories. There's multiple employers, it's
not one employer with tons of employees. But you know,
(15:54):
every group of people can be organized. You just need
amazing organizers. And domestic workers are the best organizers. They
are for domestic workers. So our movement is led by centered,
run by powered by domestic workers themselves. So Denise is
one of our workers leaders. In New York. We have
an incredible New York chapter leader, Allison, who's been involved
(16:15):
from the beginning, former domestic worker who you know, our
first state Bill of Rights happened in New York, New
York State, and so she was one of the first
powerful leaders our organization had. So she be in parks,
our organizers were in parks talking to other nanny's really
doing the deep organizing and getting to know people. And
(16:36):
when you build leaders who are from the community, that's
how you continue to build power and build community. And
we really consider ourselves a home for domestic workers. These
workers work in our homes, but we are also a home.
So it's not easy, but it can be done, and
we work really hard and you know it can be done.
(16:59):
We'll be right back after this break. Welcome back to
Essential Voices. Yeah, what you're describing about domestic workers speaking
with other domestic workers in parks, that's truly how organizing
starts from the ground up, being for and from the
community that's being organized. And then to address what you
(17:19):
were talking about, Wilmer, I think you were curious about
and alluding to the elephant in the room, undocumented domestic workers.
And this ties back into when Denise shared with us
just how many undocumented domestic workers there are and how
there's virtually no support in place for these undocumented domestic workers.
(17:40):
So Christina, can you raise awareness about the efforts that
the n d w A has in place for undocumented
domestic workers. Yeah, I mean when you hear Denise the
story and then you think about the pandemic. You really
see how vulnerable domestic workers are when the bottom falls out,
and in particular if they are undocumented. And we say
(18:03):
that this industry is like the wild world West because
each workplace which it is a workplace, every home is
a workplace, because there is no standards, no rights, you know,
no regulation. It's up to the individual employer. You are
at the whim of your employer. There if something happens,
you cannot go to hr wage. Stuff happens all the time,
(18:25):
so inherently there's a lack of structure to handle conflicts.
There is no formal process. And this workforce does not
have benefits, does not have paid time off, there are
not mandates for that, you know. Before our first New
York Bill of Rights, this workforce was largely left out
of all of our traditional labor laws that we all
(18:48):
take for granted. You know, she mentioned in the interview
forty hour work week. Well, domestic workers were excluded from those,
you know laws. They've been historically excluded due to races
them and the legacy of slavery and compromises with Southern legislators.
So to solve for this, we did state based bill
(19:10):
of rights, and so we were creating that floor of rights, standards,
paid time off, many of the things that you know
a lot of us take for granted, and we've had
a lot of success with that ten states. Now we
also have cities who have passed bill of rights. We
have Seattle, Philadelphia, UM. Just this week, New Jersey introduced
(19:35):
a Bill of rights, which is really exciting. That's my
home state, and we introduced two years ago our federal
Domestic Worker Bill of Rights. So it's time, it's past
time to have these rights, this baseline to ensure the
protections of this workforce, and so you know, it is time.
(19:56):
And that's how you can make sure that domestic workers,
including vulnerable workers like Denise, who quite frequently because they
are undocumented, there's even more vulnerability because their employers know
that they are in this precarious situation. There's no more
for them to go. So that is what we can do. Now,
can you provide specifics for folks who may not know
(20:17):
what exactly the Bill of Rights is hoping to accomplish
for domestic workers and what the bill entails. A livable
wage is definitely the most important. These jobs are often
underpaid and undervalued. Which is something that is still hard
to wrap your head around when you think about that
these jobs take care of some of the most precious
things in our lives, which is our loved ones and
(20:39):
our homes. There's not much more the weak value than
that UM livable wage, UM benefits, paid time off, sick days,
forty hour work week, ensuring over time and training. And
then also we've done a lot of innovation with our
Bill of Rights as we've gone on, and we've needed
(21:00):
UM boards where employers and domestic workers come together to
figure out what is reasonable, what is fair, what is
you know, what is working, what is not, and really
have that ongoing conversation about how the industry can thrive
and how our workforce can thrive. So those are just
some of the key provisions, and we're really excited that
we're going to be reintroducing the Federal Domestic Worker Bill
(21:24):
of Rights next month in July, and the follow up
to our beautiful Essential worker Chad, what is the path dissolution?
You know? How can we really get involved? You know?
And I think that it's important for people to know
that enough signatures and enough phone calls create a ripple
effect that they cannot deny. So you think about, oh,
I'm gonna call my Okay, I'm one phone call or
(21:44):
I'm one vote, which was the multi hundred year old daylima,
what is one vote going to do? You know? But
we've seen the effect of what one or a thousand
votes could do. So I just really think about really
understanding and how to provide some of our listeners in
this converse station with Look, it really does work, you know,
and and we all work together to change something you will.
(22:06):
So Mr, before we jump into some solutions, it would
be great if you can share a specific anecdote or
a story circling back kind of to how you shared
that the n d w A is channeling the power
of storytelling to promote that cultural shift for supporting domestic
workers that we were talking about earlier, and so to
that end, can you share a story that you've experienced
(22:29):
firsthand when storytelling has been really impactful for making community
base changed related to your work. So, within the first
couple of months of me working at the National Domestic
Workers Alliance, we organized a kids caravan of children who
traveled by bus from Florida to the White House to
(22:53):
tell the Trump administration to value you know, and to
stop attacking immigrants and to provide a pathway. And it
was this group of children who were twelve years old,
and they came from what we call mixed status families,
So some of the children, you know, had been born
in the US. They'd have a parent that was undocumented,
(23:15):
one that was potentially had a green card. You know.
It was each family had a different um personal situation.
And there was this one girl, Leiah, who was so
powerful and her mother was a dreamer, and I just
couldn't believe the courage of this young woman. She later
(23:36):
went on to when Families Belong Together held a huge
rally in DC. She gave a speech that had all
of us weeping, and it was so powerful seeing this
young girl speak for her family. And I remember thinking
to myself, what was I doing when I was twelve
(23:56):
and I didn't have to protect my mother? And this
girl should be in middle school and her worst concern
should be, you know, a subject she doesn't like in school,
and instead she just took a bus over like forty
eight hours to d C. And she is speaking in
front of a crowd on a megaphone in a way
(24:17):
that I as you know, a thirty something year old
woman would be intimidated by and that really struck me,
and that has continued to stick with me. And whenever
you know, she's still a leader, she's getting older. It's
been four years, and whenever I see her name or
see her face, it humbles me and it inspires me.
(24:38):
Her mother is a domestic worker. So again you see
these intersecting identities, and you really see people not just
for their titles domestic worker, essential worker, undocumented, you know, dreamer,
you know their whole humans. And you know, we get
to decide the culture we create and who who we
(25:01):
value and how we value. And I think it's stories
like that that actually really show the value of the woman.
You know, not just the value of the work that
she provides to the community, but these women are strong,
powerful women of color who our core members of their community.
(25:24):
Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, that really leads nicely into talking
about community based solutions. Because we've heard about bills, and
we've heard about infrastructure, But what can you suggest that
listeners do in their spare time to spread the word
about supporting domestic workers. So I would say that, yes,
(25:44):
your phone calls to your elected officials work, you might think, oh,
I'm just a drop in the bucket. But it works
because you are telling your elected official as a constituent,
what matters to you and what should be at the
top of their list and what issues. You know, when
you say I care about care, infrastructure and the care economy,
(26:06):
and pass this bill past this infrastructure bill. This matters
to me. This is at the top of my agenda.
You know. I know sometimes the scripts can be confusing
for people. Just call say you're a constituent, you know,
and say this issue matters to me, and you work
for me, and add your voice to the tally, because
(26:28):
it is when the tally ratchets up and we have
a sea of people all saying that something matters to them.
People do listen, you know. If you say immigration matters,
I want to support my immigrant members of my community.
They are core pieces of our community and this is
(26:48):
important to me. So those phone calls work, those petitions work,
that flurry of activity works. People notice are elected officials
are accountable, So that definitely works. And I'd also say
that there's a role for everyone. So if we have
a mobilization and where like everyone get on the streets.
(27:09):
If that's not for you, that's okay, there's a role
for you. You can make a call, or you can
talk to your friend or you know, when you see
online us talking about the importance of like I said,
New Jersey introducing a state bill of rights, share it
with on Facebook. Maybe some of your neighbors employed domestic workers.
(27:29):
Maybe they'll message you and go, oh, what is this?
Can my domestic worker join this this organization? Where's the
link for that? Oh? Should I think of good practices?
I have a house cleaner? What are good practices? What
should I be providing? So it starts a conversation and
there is something for everyone. As we talk about how
(27:54):
these phone calls really do work. It's exciting to remind
us all why they do work, Like what is the
science behind a phone call? Is that the more phone
calls that are going the more this subject becomes a
major signal that's coming out of that sector. And that
official has to now answer to that because that is
exactly what he's hired to do, to listen to the
(28:14):
people's interests. We often times are very confused, like why
one phone call? But it's not just one phone call,
you know, just like you you representing people that might
have made that phone call, and then there's another phone
call and another focal. Now you're talking about thirty people
that actually are representating those three phone calls, so it
really kind of multiplies, and you have a major responsibility
to to make those phone calls. And that's exciting that
(28:36):
you drove that, Christina. I was really grateful for that.
And Mark, Christina, is there anything else that you want
to share with us, whether it's an anecdote or an action,
or anything that we didn't cover that you want to
make sure that folks are aware of. Yeah, I think
I'll just really say again that there is a role
for everyone in our movement. You don't have to be
(28:58):
an employer. You don't have to be you know, someone
who is ready to march, you don't have to be.
There's a role for everyone. Go to Domestic workers dot org,
join the movement and there's a place for you. There
is power in numbers, there's a power with all of us,
and we are all connected and care is really at
(29:18):
the center of our lives. And I think something that
the pandemic really showed to us all is that we
all have stories relating to care, whether it's a loved one,
or our community, all the mutual aid groups that popped up.
You know, care is really at the center. So the
women that do this work, domestic workers, you know, we
(29:40):
need to show that we value them by actually, you know,
paying them a livable wage and providing benefits and training
and a pathway to the documentation. And that's all possible.
We get to decide, We get to decide. I'm so
happy that we can uplift Denise's story today and help
(30:02):
shine a light on how to change the narrative around
domestic workers. Christina makes such a good point about how
culture needs to change along with policy. Yeah, I agree
that culture needs to change along with policy, but also
policy needs to change. And while the infrastructure bill that
Denise mentioned has changed since we recorded with her, there
are plenty of other bills that are being drafted as
(30:24):
we speak in order to protect women and other domestic
workers like Denise. So we encourage everyone to learn more
about what's going on in their local communities and also
to check out the work that the National Domestic Workers
Alliance is doing. Join us next time to hear us
talk to our next essential worker training a legal aid attorney.
Follow up by a roundtable discussion with guests Console member
(30:46):
Needi a Reman of the Los Angeles City Council and
Yvonne Marihi Menez, the CEO of Neighborhood Legal Services of
Los Angeles Counting. Thank you for joining us Essential Voices
with Wolmer val Drama is produced by me mr Ricka,
l Alison Shano and Kevin Rotkowski, with production support from
associate producer Lillian Holman. Executive producers Wilma val Drama, Adam Reynolds,
(31:10):
Leo Clem and Aaron Hilliard. This episode was edited by
Sean Tracy and Luigi Villanueva and features original music by
Will Risotti. Special thanks to this week's Essential Voice, Denise Frederick,
to Zamina Mahea for connecting us, and to our thought
leader Christina mevs Apgar from the National Domestic Workers Alliance.
Additional thanks to Melanie Murray, Sylvie snow Thomas, and Sedidra Harris.
(31:32):
This is a Clamor and w V Entertainment production in
partnership with I Heart Radio's Michael Dura podcast Network. For
more podcasts from I Heeart, visit the I heart Radio app,
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