September 21, 2021 • 40 mins
Many veterans come back from active duty with physical injuries and mental healthcare needs as they transition back to civilian life. A veteran himself, Tim Sutherland continues his commitment to service by working every day to help veterans with their disability claims. By doing so, he ensures they get the care they need from the VA even during the pandemic. Roundtable guest: Jane Horton.
Learn more about Veteran’s Guardian: https://vetsguardian.com/
Learn more about the USO: https://www.uso.org/
Episode Transcript: https://app.trint.com/public/51f3287d-ad64-4ede-836c-3c6a3afd1e72
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Alas and Wilmer bel drama and I'm m r Raquel.
So Wilmer, something tells me you're very excited for today's show.
I don't know where you cannady now, Like, what's going
on here? Hey? What is the egg? How can you tell?
But yes, yes I am. And before we dive into
this episode, I'd like to share a little context for
(00:23):
today's show. So when we were thinking about essential voices
before it became a podcast, I wanted to make sure
that we have left the stories from unsung heroes in
this country. We've been blessed to hear so many incredible
stories these last couple of months, and our show will
continue to be in a platform for these stories to shine.
We were heard from a huge variety of different kinds
(00:45):
of essential workers. Within the framework of essential work, something
I often think about is our military and armed forces.
Oh yeah, you've mentioned your involvement with the U s
O to me before, Wilmer, do you want to tell
me some more about that? Yes, I'd love to. Um.
This is some of my proudest moments of my life
and my career. And you know you're here more in
(01:06):
today's episode. But I'm actually the Global Ambassador for the USO,
which is an organization dedicated to supporting active troops in
their families. And the way I became involved was more
or less coincidence, I guess, but was centered around wanting
to be of service to the folks who in turn
serve our country. It began with an idea as simple
(01:29):
as how can I make these individuals laugh after a
long day? So over time I got more and more
involved and eventually leading me to where I am now.
And I'm honoring, proud to be a small part of
bringing joy to the armed forces. That's awesome that you
found a way to bring your skills and share them
(01:49):
with the community that you care a lot about. And
so this episode also comes at a particularly resonant time,
don't you think absolutely. I mean, I've been thinking about
this community and stuff for the past few weeks. The
enforces are on top of mind these days, not just
personally for me, but also publicly in the news, both
with the twentieth anniversary of Kind Of Loving in with
(02:11):
withdrawal from Afghanistan. The latter actually played a big bar
in shifting the direction of this episode. Yeah, I did,
because we recorded our conversation with our essential worker Tim
before the withdrawal, and we wanted to know at the
time how veteran services were impacted by the pandemic. Tim's
a veteran himself and works at a firm called Veterans
(02:32):
Guardian that assists veterans with their disability claims with the
v A. And after this conversation with Tim, I was
inspired and also thought a lot about who coo we
talked to in around table that would honor Tim's story
and service, And with the withdrawal occurring in real time,
I feel lucky that I've created some amazing friendships and
collaborative relationships with individuals working to advocate for round forces
(02:54):
and the decade and a half, almost two decades that
I've been working with the u S, So this man
that I ad folks I could talk to about what's
really going on. One of these incredible friends of mine
is Jane Harden, who is a goal star wife has
worked in the Pentagon as special assistant to the Chairman
of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and as a senior
(03:14):
advisor to the Secretary of Defense. We spoke to Jane
after the withdrawal and learn about her own service in Afghanistan,
along with how this withdrawal is impact in the community
in profound ways. I'm really looking forward to jumping into
the stories today. Yeah, me too, So let's dive in.
Tim's story starts right now. Tim, Thank you very much. Uh.
(03:38):
First of all, thank you for your service. Thank you
for everything you've done for our country. Do you mind
telling me a little bit about when was the moment
you decided to sign up, you know, and tell us
a little bit about your military journey. I am a
third generation Army veteran. My grandfather and my father were
both in I did not have that feeling, you know,
(03:59):
right after high school I need to to join the Army.
I wanted to experience the world a little bit. I
ended up joining at twenty three as a cavalry scout,
kind of small man groups. We do reconnaissance and I
honestly I loved every bit of it. When I joined,
did nine years active duty, swapped over, did three years
(04:21):
in the reserves, and finished up there. Just ended my
term in service. It was one of the proudest moments
in my life. I felt like it turned a lot around,
brought a lot of family pride, the sense of pride
the Brotherhood. There's not one thing I would take back
from it. How did you adjust and re entering Surveilian
life and what brought you to the the Veterans Guardian. Initially
(04:44):
it was pretty rough. I was combat arms in the army.
I came back to the civilian sector and it just
felt I'd kind of felt like, hey, I'm this isn't
my place anymore. Um So, starting out, jumped on a
lot of physical type jobs like I did tree removal,
something to keep myself busy in my mind moving. And
(05:04):
one day I was just on indeed looking for a
new job. I saw an ad for this place Veterans Guardian,
did a little research on it, came in for an interview,
and to be honest, from that moment, I wasn't even told, hey,
you've got the job, and I knew in the back
of my head this is where I have to end up.
I have to end up here. It's turned my life around.
(05:26):
Um the amount of people we have helped here at
Veterans Guardian is it's just amazing. Can you explain the
need for a Veterans Guardian? So there are other organizations
out there, You've got v s O s A Veteran
service officer, you've got the d a V organization that
helps him. While I will never bad mouth any of them,
(05:49):
a lot of times as one individual attempting to help,
you know, a hundred maybe plus veterans with us. For
every veteran that comes through, you've got a little over
a hundred and twenty employees right now. So with that,
it's not one person helping you with your claim. We've
got an entire team, you know. I guess you could say.
(06:11):
It's kind of along the same lines of taxes. We
all can follow our taxes for free, just going to
the I r S website, download the forms you need
to go for it, but it's time consuming, it's scary.
If you mess up, you're gonna pay for it. Um So,
I mean, that's what we're here for. You know. If
you don't have the time, or if you've attempted it
and you're just burnt out, we don't want you out
(06:33):
there suffering. If anything else, give us a call. We'll
take care of you. What is another one issue that
effects our veterans today? One of the big ones, and
I paid for it myself. Every aspect of the army
is different, but especially in the combat arms side, if
you're hurt, we are very big on suck it up
and move on. That is not the case. We've had
(06:56):
so many vets come to us that just you know,
maybe they were airborne, their knees, their ankles are shot,
and they were trying to be a tough guy and
they did not go get it documented. Those are those
really tough phone calls, it's said, because you're trying to
help them, but there's nothing you can do for him
because there's no medical evidence to help them out. So
(07:17):
if anything else, if you were currently in the military,
if you're injured, if you've had an injury, go get
seen for it, because later down the road it's gonna
come up, it's gonna be worse, and you're gonna regret
it when you didn't have that medical evidence for it.
Is there a specific moment or a memory that reminds
you how important is what you just said? Oh? Absolutely,
(07:39):
I did nine years active, the last probably six months
before I got out of that. I was one of
those guys, Hey, I'm tough. I don't need to go
to to sit call. I'm just gonna get out and
you know, move on with my life and I had
a buddy who was getting out, probably about a month
before me, and he just did not give me a break.
(08:00):
He said, go get seen for everything. I see you.
Get out of the chair. I see you. You know,
you're only thirty something years old, and you don't stand
up right at first. So I listened to him. I
went and got the medical evidence, and it benefited me greatly.
You know, I'm assuming that's one of the things that
makes your passionate is how much you relate to your
own experience and how much you see yourself and everyone
(08:22):
that needs your help. Right, Is that? Is that what
keeps you passionate about what you do? Absolutely A lot
of it is the education piece to it as well.
We've had active duty people call in, there's nothing we
can do for you while you're still serving the v
as for you afterwards, but we'll give them as much
info as we can because a lot of these people.
For instance, nineteen seventy three, there's uh the National Archives,
(08:46):
so if you were in the military, you get out
your medical records, go to the National Archives and they're
stored there. So if you ever need them, you can email,
call request them. Nineteen seventy three, the entire building burned
to the ground owned, So every veteran who joined before
nineteen seventy three, if they did not take those medical
(09:07):
records when they left, there is no medical evidence. That's
an entire generation that just you basically can't do anything
for and if nothing else, I just I don't want
to see another generation end up like that. What specific
challenges related to cover nineteen for the veteran community in europinion?
To be honest, Um, well, this is in the closeness
(09:30):
I've been with. When I was in the military, we
got so much preparation for Murphy's Law. If someone's gonna
go bad, just expected to go bad. And it was
almost like those uh we're kind of like, Okay, this
is out, just deal with it. And it was I'm
not gonna say we took it too lightly, but I
think a handful of his dead, you know, just kind of, oh,
(09:52):
this is something new in the media, it's not that
big a deal, let's move on, when in reality it was.
I mean, for us, when it first hit, every employee
we had was physically here in the building, and at
that point, you know, you got one or two that
contract COVID and that's a huge fear we're getting ready
to get the entire building sick. So then at that
(10:13):
point you got to start looking into how can we
get people home working remotely? So, I mean it was
all kinds of obstacles in the beginning leading up to it.
You have a moment, specifically during the pandemic where you
were proud how all of you gather around the issues
and try to problem solve so your services were still
available and you guys were still up and running. Absolutely
(10:36):
when we had to scare okay, we don't want to
worry about spreading the disease around. We got with our
I T department and in one day, less than twenty
four hours, we sent every single individual home with a laptop,
set them up on VPNs. The entire company was working
remote in one day. And I mean we were a
(10:57):
new company. This is something we've never attempted it. R
I T guy actually called a friend who had dealt
with it before and was like, what do we do
and he's like, well, you need about four months to
prep for it. It's like, that's not happening. We've got
one day. So we made it work, and I thought
that was just amazing. Throughout the pandemic, we were pretty
much challenged to kind of find where do we find serenity,
(11:19):
Where do we find our zan where do we find
a place to recharge, to regoog and you know, what
were the things that you did for yourself. So initially
when the pandemic hit, it's pretty rough on me. Um
At the time, I was reviewing the majority of the
mental health surveys coming in screening, making sure okay, yes,
(11:40):
you fit the bill for this. And it turns out
being locked up in your house and not talking to
anybody reviewing mental health surveys or take a toll on you.
It got me for a while. And I've always been
big on fitness, and obviously Jim shut down, and it
just I hit a slump and finally I just I
got up one day it was like, hey, this is enough.
(12:02):
Started up a workout routine out in the backyard. And
a big one is reading. I've always been an active person.
I enjoy reading, but it's like I'll read for fifteen
minutes and it's like, Okay, I gotta get up and
do something. And being stuck in the house learning to
entertain yourself, I'll say this, I learned patients I can
sit and finish the whole book. Now, so we all
(12:24):
did one of the biggest misconceptions events. How about veterans
and how would you like the attitudes to change, both
individuals and institutions. Well, I will say this. I can't
speak for everybody, but when I was in uniform, especially recruiting,
because you're out in the civilian population, they come up
to you, they got a lot of questions. It always
(12:46):
seemed to me that every civilian person I came up
to just imagined, you know, we were all these war
touring people live on the front line, eating our beams
and trenches, and it's like that's not the case. Like, yes,
some of us do go do that, but I mean
the army has hundreds of jobs and out of that,
you know, maybe twenty of them are combat arms, especially
(13:09):
while stay with the kids, like my nephews. When I
came back from deployment, I moved back home, a lot
of them were a little standoffish with me. You know,
they're like, this guy's been to war. Should I be
nervous of him? And it's like, I'm a normal person,
just like you and me. You know, you chose this
for a profession, I chose that for a profession. We're
normal people like everybody else. What do you feel like
(13:31):
our community can do more, like to really support the
work that you're doing and amplify your message. To me,
it's just the moral support. When I was in Afghanistan,
I mean, yeah, we had random people millist boxes of goodies,
thank you for this and that, But at the end
of the day, it was just knowing somebody's got your
back back home. I got letters from random people from
(13:54):
churches just hey, I know you're deployed. I want to
thank you, and you know, hey, I have no clue
who this per some is, but I feel so much
better now reading that. To me, it's just the moral support.
And when messages that you want to leave for veterans
and active service members, um, you know, and why would
you tell your younger self take care of yourself? One
(14:16):
of the big things when we get in the army,
you know they army, our country. This is what comes first,
and a lot of us take that seriously and we
will put our own health on the sidelines for that. Like, no,
take care of yourself please. I am grateful for your time, Tim,
and thank you, Thank you so much for your service
and your continuing devotion to the veterans and their families.
(14:39):
So I appreciate you a lot. Absolutely thanks for having me.
It was a pleasure, even though I was there for
the conversation with Tim here, and it again makes me
very proud. During all of my time with the US
so I've seen this incredible commitment to being of service,
which we've seen not just with Tim but with lots
(14:59):
of other essential voices on our show. Dame really embodies
the spirit of service to this community and his country,
and that makes me so grateful for my position with
the US. So it's awesome to see you connecting so deeply, Warmer,
And I mean you said it best. Tim's spirit of service,
as you said, is it's inspiring. And when we get
(15:20):
back from the break, we'll talk with Jane Horden, my
friend and a goal star wife who worked in the
Pentagon as a special assistant to the Chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff and as a senior advisor to
the Secretary of Defense. Jane, I am filled with joy.
(15:43):
I have nothing but the utmost admiration. Respect. I'm one
of your biggest fans, and I used to consider myself
a brother of yours. You know, for a little more context,
Jane and I have traveled the world visiting the troops.
She has devoted so much of her life for, you know,
the understanding and the support of all our service members
(16:04):
and their families, and I'm so proud of the work
you've done and what you've done for this country. Just
kind of diving into it, how did you feel listening
to Tim's story? I mean what stood out to you?
It was such an honor to hear from him and
to hear his whole journey and what he does now
to serve. And I think that's what stood out to
me is members of our military love to serve, and
(16:27):
they love to serve America. They love to serve people,
and once they leave the military, their heart of service
doesn't leave them. So I thought it was very incredible
to hear that after he got out, he wanted to
go back and continue to serve. Thank you, Jane. That
message of service that you're alluding to is definitely felt
throughout everything that Tim shared with us. And you know,
(16:49):
in the same vein of service, Wilmer, you're using your
skills to be of service with the USO. So how
did you feel listening to Tim's story? And you've been
working with the USO for a long time, so also
could you say more about the work that you do
with veterans. Yeah, I mean we went through my mind
is um how little we really understand and how connected
(17:10):
we are to the subject. So when you think about
someone who's devoted his life to continue to welcome the
ones he understands, it fills me up with joy to
see that there's people like Jane and like him that exists,
you know. So that's one thing that I kind of
take from it, is just to see how selfless he is,
you know. But I also you grew very frustrated, you know,
because there is so much about it that hasn't been
(17:32):
a topic, hasn't been a priority. And I think that
there's there's a time that we are entering. There's a
window for us to have national conversations, and you know,
I hope to God that we can continue to bring
their sacrifice to the forefront and never make it a trend,
make it a national treasure that we celebrate every day.
M M. And then what about your personal work with
(17:55):
the USO. I was working through an airport and and
to sort was when I came up to me and said, hey,
you know, we watched the seven Show, you know, and
we exchanged the DVDs of the seven in show after
a long day of doing what we gotta do. Then
those laughs really helps, So thank you, sir. And I
was like, you're kidding me, thank you? What are you?
What are you thanking me for? You know? And ultimately
I called my team and I said, hey, imagine if
(18:17):
I just apparently they liked the seven show there, maybe
I can come over there. And I didn't have no
idea how hard or how easy it could have been.
And I'm like, what if I just went over there
and then, you know, went to one of the bases
and just freaked him out. I'm like, man, what is
Fez doing here? You know? And that was that was
my perspective over there in my early twenties, you know,
Can I just go there and freak them out and
be like, what are you doing here? And I called
the U s O, and the U s O in
(18:38):
two seconds booked me, and in two seconds I was
already in an airport and going over there then, and
my first show taught me so much about myself and
what I was grateful for. It reminded me of why
I look at the American flag and with so much pride,
and why I I want to be of service, why
I want to pay it forward, what I want to
(18:59):
show up them. You know, I think that I don't
want to say we forget, because we never do for
us that don't, but I definitely want to say that
through these trips, I've learned to really love not just
our country, but the top of individuals our country create,
and that that was really something I took from that
work and and you know, and just entertaining and seeing
(19:19):
laughter and bringing a piece of home to them was Joe.
And I mean, that's the only thing I could do
to serve. Now, I wasn't wearing the uniform, but now
as the years went by, I took more responsibility, more
of a bigger role in the u s O. And
then now I serve as the global ambassador for the USO,
and it's one of my proudest moments. I remember watching
Bob Hope right as a little kid, you know, entertaining
the troops, and I wanted to be him, you know,
(19:41):
I just wanted to be on stage like him. M M.
That's really beautiful. Your message of wanting to serve and
be of service using your skills and your talents to
bring smiles on people's faces. It really echoes a sentiment
of service that's present throughout this entire conversation. Um, Jane,
you look like you wanted to add something, any thoughts
to share Now? I just love Wilmer's heart, and I'm
(20:02):
grateful for some of the stuff that he's championing and
leading the layon, especially some of the stuff he brought
up about the perception of service members by some communities,
but also the soul and the heart of them. And
I'm currently near seventh Special Forces Group right now down
an Eggland Air Force Base area, and I'm actually in
(20:24):
the home of Sergeant first Class Jaguar Gutiers, who was
killed in Afghanistan less than two years ago, and so
meeting his four kids. And I'm sitting here looking at
a sign that he wrote his daughters, he has three
of them and one son, and he wrote, one day
they'll be warriors, Mike Queen love Jaguar. And it was
(20:45):
a letter he wrote to his wife. And so just
you know, getting to know even these heroes that have
given their life for me and for all of us
and warriors like so money that Wilma and I get
to serve and and get to meet and be a
part of their world at such an honor, and there's
never enough that I could do for them. And it's
been it's changed my life to meet someone with the
(21:06):
same heart, and that's Wolmer. So that's kind of my
thoughts from that. And and yeah, for folks who may
not be aware, could you explain what a gold star
family means? Absolutely? So a gold star family is traditionally
a family of a service number that's killed in combat.
And so this family, their loved one was killed in Afghanistan,
(21:26):
So that came from actually World War two. Historically one
families would hang up blue star flags in their windows,
and so people would know who had a loved one
deployed by the blue star that would hang in their window,
and so when that loved one was killed, they would
change it to gold And that's kind of how the
(21:47):
meaning of gold star came to be. Yeah, you know,
I didn't know what a gold star family was before
speaking with you, So thanks for sharing that with us.
And it sounds like being a gold star wife is
really central to your identity and to your service, and
that your extremely proud of your husband's service as well.
It's important for Americans to know what a gold Star
family is. And I don't want them to know about
(22:07):
a gold Star family so they feel sorry for me.
I want them to know that I'm a gold Star
wife because that is the only way that they're going
to know about my husband who gave his life for them.
And so if I don't represent him, and if I
don't give him a name and a voice, people will
never know he existed. And that's why that's important. You're
honoring his memory and his legacy. And as a gold
(22:29):
Star family member, you've held multiple roles in the Pentagon
and you advocate for veterans and their families every day.
What would you say your biggest initiatives when you're advocating.
My top priorities are doing the best I can for
service members on the ground to ensure they continue the
mission to keep us safe. And the best way that
I found to do that and to honor our service
(22:49):
members isn't sure that they're taken care of, that their
families are taken care of. And so by doing that,
it ensures that we'll be able to preserve an all
volunteer for men and women will continue to volunteer to
fight because they know their families are going to be
taken care of in life and in death. And so
for me, it's the greatest honor of my life to
(23:11):
advocate for them while they're here, to make their lives
easier as they're defending me and my family and my freedoms.
And then so they know that if God forbid, something
should ever happen to them, I will always be there
for their family, and we as a country and our
government will always be there for their families no matter what.
We'll be right back after this break, Welcome back to
(23:33):
Essential Voices. You know, Jane, you and I have had
multiple conversations about this topic I'm about to bring up,
and it's a topic that I don't believe a lot
of our national community understands, specifically on what it could
cause and ripples of consequences and how it affects all
(23:53):
of us directly and indirectly, and especially our military community,
and that is the withdrawal from our Hondesstan. You know,
it's troubling. I've had some really dark moments about this.
I think you and I have had some sobering conversations
about this as well. But there has been plenty of
coverage by the media and conversation about the war as
a whole. You know, But when you see that coverage,
(24:18):
I mean, what do we wish was being discussed? What
do you feel we're missing in this narrative? As you know,
Afghanistan is a very special place in my heart. I've
been there on six different occasions and just love the
country and its people and deeply care about the mission
in Afghanistan. And so the number one thing that I
(24:40):
wish that our country would grasp is that our service
members fight the wars in which we tell them to fight.
And when I say we our government, and so most
Americans it's kind of interesting, a lot of them don't
equate their government with them. But we are a government
of the people, by the people, and for the people.
And whether we that are not our representatives representatives. That's
(25:03):
why members of Congress are Congressmen are called representatives or
senators because they are direct representatives of us who make
the laws and the policies that our service members have
to follow. So a lot of times the troops get
blamed for things that they literally have no control over.
You know, when they fight wars for a very long
time and people ask constantly, you know, why are they
(25:24):
in Afghanistan? Why did your husband die? What was it for? Well,
that's a question that I often like to turn back
on the American people, because when I sent my husband
to war, he was not my husband. I sent him
as America's son. He was all of ours, and so
the policies in which affected him and all of our troops,
you know, they have no control over They go and
(25:46):
they do what the government tells them to do. And
that's the number one thing that I wish that Americans
would really grasp is that they're just going and doing
what they have to do. They have no choice over
what they do. They have no choice over the mission.
And so if we don't know what the mission is,
we should probably start asking questions and getting involved as well.
And so that's kind of one of the main things
(26:06):
that's been on my heart a lot. So it sounds
like you haven't just worked with veterans and families here
in the United States. You just mentioned you've been Afghanistan
six times, and you've been on the ground abroad, so
can you tell us more about your experiences and the
folks that you've worked with? Lebron Absolutely, so each trip
has been completely different. That I've done a lot of
work with Afghan war widows. So their military was our allies,
(26:30):
and so we worked hand in hand with them, We
trained them, we did a lot of work with them.
And what a lot of people don't know either is
that they were losing massive amounts of people in their military. So,
for example, over twenty years of war, we've lost around undred.
The Afghan army was losing about twenty thousand a year
(26:51):
or so, so it was a lot and so I
was helping them come up with programs to ensure their
widows and their orphans were taken care of. So I
did a lot of stuff with that. I did some
work with orphanages and honestly, just learning about the Afghan people.
Like to be honest, you know, as military spouses, we
send our loved ones off to war. But as most Americans,
(27:12):
we don't know anything about these places that they go.
We don't know much about Afghanistan or Iraq. Afghanistan is
a beautiful place, their clothing is beautiful. They were these bright,
colorful dresses for their weddings. They had beautiful beaded gowns.
I didn't realize I usually go in the winter. This
year I was there for the summer. There's roses everywhere
(27:33):
and it was so green. It was just incredibly beautiful,
sitting in courtyard smelling the roses, drinking tea, listening to music,
and we danced in cobble, you know, we danced in
someone's courtyard and they did their traditional dance called the
ton and it was just the beautiful, wonderful time. Going
back to what we were talking about, Team spoke about
(27:55):
the pressure for many of the soldiers to may not
when they are angel either physically or mental. The you know, meanwhile,
the Pentagon is reporting a rise in active duty suicide rates.
With this in mind, can you speak a bit more
about the mental health of soldiers, veterans and their families.
I love to hear your thoughts a little bit more
on that. Absolutely, Thank you so much for bringing that up,
(28:15):
because it's one of the most important conversations we have
in the military community and in the Pentagon as well.
Mental health is incredibly important when you're sending your loved
one off to war, when you're fighting a war when
you've been through so much, it's something that definitely needs
a tune up, just like you need physical tune ups.
You know, just as we go in and get our
hearing checked or to go get our cholesterol checked, we
(28:37):
also have to go and get our mental health checked.
You know. There's been a lot of new initiatives on that.
We don't really feel in the military community that anyone
has really cracked the code on that. But as Tim
said as well, you know, it's in the culture of
the military to kind of man up because the number
one thing that service members want to do is they
want to get in the fight and they never want
(28:57):
to leave a teammate behind. So they don't ever want
to be told you have to sit on the bench
or you can't be in the fight, and so that's
one of the main hurdles we have to get over, um.
But to be fair in the past as well, like
a lot of times when people have come forward with
mental health concerns, they have been benched. So we're working
on that to make sure that if people come forward,
(29:18):
they're going to still be able to do their jobs
and get the health they need and do the best
we can to keep our force the healthiest they can
be and the most mentally fit they can be. I'm
also going to bring up something that's pretty new as
we're talking about Afghanistan. I've been in the military community
for maybe fifteen years now, and I've never seen anything
like we're seeing now. Um. I've never seen my whole
(29:39):
community walking around wounded, whether they admit it or not. UM.
And this has added some pretty deep wounds on top
of already a mental health crisis. And so there's a
lot of people hurting right now, and I'm just hoping
that the country and we can all wrap our arms
around each other and help each other grow and help
each other heal. I also love to act to that
(30:00):
something that you and I talked about the other day, Jane,
which is are somewhat and very unfortunate inability to see
the tide away that we're about to inherit with our
veterans as they return from Afghanistan. After this mission, however
you call the outcome of the mission, there are some
(30:22):
consequences that are going to be felt, and I would
look for you to help us describe a little bit
of the sentiment and also what's to come, What we
need to be ready for we have not even talked
about yet. What's the next phase of this conversation. And
that's the one that that really keeps me up at night.
It's a good conversation and it's very relevant. It's very
(30:45):
much needed because everything that's gone on in Afghanistan after
years of war, people have given up everything, their families.
Sometimes people are on multiple marriages, Sometimes they don't come home,
as we've talked about. But this whole conversation about the
war and what's to come with that is it's unlike
anything I've seen in my lifetime. And people going from
(31:08):
being tired already for fighting for twenty years too, was
it worth it? I'm getting asset almost every day. I
just sat in front of a different gold Star wife
about an hour ago. You know, English wasn't her first language,
but she said to me, did my husband died for nothing?
Do you think my husband died for nothing? And I
was just like, I'm not even ready to face these questions,
(31:30):
like how do I answer her as she's taking care
of her kids alone? You know, did your husband die
for nothing? And so I bring that up. It's very deep.
I bring it up because everyone's struggling with this right now,
and it shouldn't just be the one percent that have
served the country needs to think about this as well,
and they really need to look at if and I'm
not trying to steer people in one way or another.
(31:52):
If you feel like it was, that's great. If you
feel like it wasn't, that's your personal decision. But either way,
decisions need to be made going for war because our
service members deserve better than people believing that people died
for nothing or this was for nothing. Well, then we
need to stand up as Americans and we need to
be heard because we here in America have a voice
and we can make a difference that we can do something.
(32:15):
And so it's our duty, I feel, to protect our
war fighters as well and those that go on our
behalf and to ensure that something like that, if we
decide it wasn't worth it doesn't happen again. And so
with all these questions being asked, you know, and with
people feeling like what did happen in the end, you know,
it's adding on top of what was already there, and
(32:36):
it's adding a layer of hopelessness. And how do I
put the pieces in my head together about everything I've
done with my life, you know, why did I go
to war? Why did I have to do this? Why
did my family fall apart? Why did all of this happen?
And when you can't piece together the purpose, it just
adds on top of the mental health crisis that was
(32:57):
already there. And so I'm deeply concerned. And you know,
the other thing that I've noticed that's very interesting, it's
it's really beautiful and it's really wonderful. But with most
of the fundraisers I've been doing for Afghans and most
of the stuff I do for gold Star families and veterans,
it's always veteran single star families that contribute are the
(33:17):
first ones there. And sometimes I do think, why doesn't
the civilian community engage more? And one of my friends
explain to me, She's like, it's because people can't relate
to a service number that goes off to war and
dies because there's so few, or an Afghan child overseas
that's mom is brutally murdered by the Taliban and father,
(33:41):
And so I think just getting to know the military
community more, getting to know your neighbor, getting to know
people in your community, and engaging and learning from each
other because we think a certain way in the military community.
So how can we learn from you and how can
you learn from us so we can get to know
each other better and do more for our country as
a team. So one thing I've been hearing you talk
(34:01):
about a lot is service and healing and community, and
not just for folks in the American Armed Forces, but
also for families in Afghanistan and other countries. You mentioned
you've worked to raise money for Afghan refugees after the
American withdrawal, So could you speak a little bit about
the efforts to get Afghan allies the United States and
(34:21):
how to best support Afghani refugees once they're in the
United States. You know, I've firstly been involved with getting
multiple people over to America. It's been a very hard,
honestly horrific process. It's been very scary, very heart wrenching.
Many of us that have been involved in US haven't
gotten sleep in weeks because during the night here in
(34:42):
America is daytime in Afghanistan, and people are terrified because
everything went so quickly in the tal Band took control
so quickly, a lot of people didn't see it coming,
and so you know, people literally had to leave their homes.
One of my friends personally, i'm gonna call her Jamie
for today, I'm not going to use her name, but
she's twenty three years old. She held a very senior
(35:05):
position in the Afghan government, and she's a wonderful friend
of mine. She's incredible, and she literally had to leave.
I had to tell her, you can't bring your mom
or your sister, you can't bring anyone because I couldn't
guarantee her safety. And I had to tell her, you
have to go alone. So she literally left her country.
The Taliban's taking a lot of people's bags at the airport.
(35:26):
She left her whole life, lost her government, her dreams,
got on a plane. She didn't even know where she
was going to go. You know, there are several different
options where they were sending people. For the first country,
she ended up going to cut her Quitar. She was
there for a couple of days, then ended up going
to Germany, and now she's in processing in America. So
it takes a little while for them to get vetted,
(35:48):
process go through their paperwork. But she literally has nothing,
like nothing, only the clothes on her back. And so
it's one of the first times in my life that
I've been really raising money raising things for people because
they've left everything they've ever known, and so it's also
their dream to come to America, and I want to
(36:08):
ensure that we give them a warm welcome, and I
do all I can to show people that have been
through the worst thing that a human can go through
that we love them here in America. We're happy to
have them, and we still want to learn about their
culture and their people, and we're here for them. I'm
proud of the work that you do, Jane, I'm proud
of the partnership we have, and I'm excited for everyone
(36:31):
who's listening to this conversation to discover that there is
another perspective that unfortunately, it's not the invitation we're getting
from media or news. When you think about the news,
when you think about people's opinions on Facebook, they're met
with one size or the other. And I hope that
through this conversation, Jane, in through your beautiful words about
(36:54):
what it really was like, what it really is like,
in the reality of what it is, that we can
find some top a perspective and understand that Okay, maybe
as we know it. At the very least, let me
reopen my heart again and let me just really see
how I really feel. My passion comes from a hopeful
and exciting new horizon. I see, and I see opportunity,
(37:17):
and I see a road map that we are going
to continue to pay from community and all the way
up to the top level. And I can't help but
to think about what this all means for the next
generation and what we can do as individuals today. You know,
I would love for you, Jane, to have any words,
any reflections or what I just said, but you know,
(37:39):
also maybe provide a little bit of light for those
who are listening to you and understanding there there are
allies like you and I proudly call ourselves, you know,
that are out there really trying to not just connect,
but understand and move tactically into a place where we
can all be more aware of one another. Agreed, And
(37:59):
just like you said as well, to the veterans and
military community that's listening, Wilma and I are here for
you always, and we're never gonna stop serving you, We're
never gonna stop thanking you, and we're never gonna stop
being engaged in the community. You know, This country wasn't
founded for people to sit back and just enjoy the
freedoms that we have. Democracy is not a spectator sport,
you know. It was built for people to get involved
(38:22):
and to do things. And so this is a chance
for us to all get involved as a family and
do things to better this country and also wrap our
arms around this community as our service members start to
come home after years and years and years of fighting.
And so I think it's a wonderful way for us
all to come together on something that we're passionate about
and help rebuild this country. Jane, thanks so much for
(38:43):
your candor today, for speaking with us so openly, and
for your time. Thanks so much. Thank you. It was
an honor to be here. And thank you Wilma again
for facilitating this, for your leadership, and for having this
conversation because it's much needed and it's a beautiful thing.
So thank you. Wow. Even though I've gotten to talk
(39:04):
to Jane both on and off the clock, you know,
I'm always just amazed by listening to her speak. I mean,
I'm thankful that she was willing to talk to us
about such a difficult topic, especially when the wounds she
referenced are so fresh. I also loved hearing Jane talk
about her work with the Afghani widows and orphans. I
learned so much today. I definitely learned a lot from
(39:27):
both Jane and Tim this week. Thanks so much, Wilmur
for having me facilitate this conversation between you and Jane.
Of course, I wouldn't have it any other way. So Wilmer,
what do we have to look forward to next week? Well?
Next week, well speak with Essential Worker Blanca, a farmer
worker in California, followed by a round table with none
other than the iconic civil rights activists The Lotus and
(39:49):
lawyer activists Monica Remidz, the founder of Justice for Migrant Women.
Essential Voices with Wilmer val Drama. It's produced by me
m r Raquel, Alice in Shano and Kevin Rotkowski, with
production support from Associate producer Lillian Holman. Executive producers Wilmer
Val Drama, Adam Reynolds, Leo Clem and Aaron Hilliard. This
(40:11):
episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original music
by Will Risotti. Special thanks to this week's Essential Voice,
Tim Sutherland, a veterans guardian, and to our thought leader
Jane Horton. Additional thanks to William Taylor and Mark Christensen.
This is a Clamor and w V Entertainment production in
partnership with I Heart Radio's Michael Dura podcast Network. For
(40:33):
more podcasts from i Heeart, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Alas and Wilmer bel drama and I'm m r Raquel.
So Wilmer, something tells me you're very excited for today's show.
I don't know where you cannady now, Like, what's going
on here? Hey? What is the egg? How can you tell?
But yes, yes I am. And before we dive into
this episode, I'd like to share a little context for
(00:23):
today's show. So when we were thinking about essential voices
before it became a podcast, I wanted to make sure
that we have left the stories from unsung heroes in
this country. We've been blessed to hear so many incredible
stories these last couple of months, and our show will
continue to be in a platform for these stories to shine.
We were heard from a huge variety of different kinds
(00:45):
of essential workers. Within the framework of essential work, something
I often think about is our military and armed forces.
Oh yeah, you've mentioned your involvement with the U s
O to me before, Wilmer, do you want to tell
me some more about that? Yes, I'd love to. Um.
This is some of my proudest moments of my life
and my career. And you know you're here more in
(01:06):
today's episode. But I'm actually the Global Ambassador for the USO,
which is an organization dedicated to supporting active troops in
their families. And the way I became involved was more
or less coincidence, I guess, but was centered around wanting
to be of service to the folks who in turn
serve our country. It began with an idea as simple
(01:29):
as how can I make these individuals laugh after a
long day? So over time I got more and more
involved and eventually leading me to where I am now.
And I'm honoring, proud to be a small part of
bringing joy to the armed forces. That's awesome that you
found a way to bring your skills and share them
(01:49):
with the community that you care a lot about. And
so this episode also comes at a particularly resonant time,
don't you think absolutely. I mean, I've been thinking about
this community and stuff for the past few weeks. The
enforces are on top of mind these days, not just
personally for me, but also publicly in the news, both
with the twentieth anniversary of Kind Of Loving in with
(02:11):
withdrawal from Afghanistan. The latter actually played a big bar
in shifting the direction of this episode. Yeah, I did,
because we recorded our conversation with our essential worker Tim
before the withdrawal, and we wanted to know at the
time how veteran services were impacted by the pandemic. Tim's
a veteran himself and works at a firm called Veterans
(02:32):
Guardian that assists veterans with their disability claims with the
v A. And after this conversation with Tim, I was
inspired and also thought a lot about who coo we
talked to in around table that would honor Tim's story
and service, And with the withdrawal occurring in real time,
I feel lucky that I've created some amazing friendships and
collaborative relationships with individuals working to advocate for round forces
(02:54):
and the decade and a half, almost two decades that
I've been working with the u S, So this man
that I ad folks I could talk to about what's
really going on. One of these incredible friends of mine
is Jane Harden, who is a goal star wife has
worked in the Pentagon as special assistant to the Chairman
of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and as a senior
(03:14):
advisor to the Secretary of Defense. We spoke to Jane
after the withdrawal and learn about her own service in Afghanistan,
along with how this withdrawal is impact in the community
in profound ways. I'm really looking forward to jumping into
the stories today. Yeah, me too, So let's dive in.
Tim's story starts right now. Tim, Thank you very much. Uh.
(03:38):
First of all, thank you for your service. Thank you
for everything you've done for our country. Do you mind
telling me a little bit about when was the moment
you decided to sign up, you know, and tell us
a little bit about your military journey. I am a
third generation Army veteran. My grandfather and my father were
both in I did not have that feeling, you know,
(03:59):
right after high school I need to to join the Army.
I wanted to experience the world a little bit. I
ended up joining at twenty three as a cavalry scout,
kind of small man groups. We do reconnaissance and I
honestly I loved every bit of it. When I joined,
did nine years active duty, swapped over, did three years
(04:21):
in the reserves, and finished up there. Just ended my
term in service. It was one of the proudest moments
in my life. I felt like it turned a lot around,
brought a lot of family pride, the sense of pride
the Brotherhood. There's not one thing I would take back
from it. How did you adjust and re entering Surveilian
life and what brought you to the the Veterans Guardian. Initially
(04:44):
it was pretty rough. I was combat arms in the army.
I came back to the civilian sector and it just
felt I'd kind of felt like, hey, I'm this isn't
my place anymore. Um So, starting out, jumped on a
lot of physical type jobs like I did tree removal,
something to keep myself busy in my mind moving. And
(05:04):
one day I was just on indeed looking for a
new job. I saw an ad for this place Veterans Guardian,
did a little research on it, came in for an interview,
and to be honest, from that moment, I wasn't even told, hey,
you've got the job, and I knew in the back
of my head this is where I have to end up.
I have to end up here. It's turned my life around.
(05:26):
Um the amount of people we have helped here at
Veterans Guardian is it's just amazing. Can you explain the
need for a Veterans Guardian? So there are other organizations
out there, You've got v s O s A Veteran
service officer, you've got the d a V organization that
helps him. While I will never bad mouth any of them,
(05:49):
a lot of times as one individual attempting to help,
you know, a hundred maybe plus veterans with us. For
every veteran that comes through, you've got a little over
a hundred and twenty employees right now. So with that,
it's not one person helping you with your claim. We've
got an entire team, you know. I guess you could say.
(06:11):
It's kind of along the same lines of taxes. We
all can follow our taxes for free, just going to
the I r S website, download the forms you need
to go for it, but it's time consuming, it's scary.
If you mess up, you're gonna pay for it. Um So,
I mean, that's what we're here for. You know. If
you don't have the time, or if you've attempted it
and you're just burnt out, we don't want you out
(06:33):
there suffering. If anything else, give us a call. We'll
take care of you. What is another one issue that
effects our veterans today? One of the big ones, and
I paid for it myself. Every aspect of the army
is different, but especially in the combat arms side, if
you're hurt, we are very big on suck it up
and move on. That is not the case. We've had
(06:56):
so many vets come to us that just you know,
maybe they were airborne, their knees, their ankles are shot,
and they were trying to be a tough guy and
they did not go get it documented. Those are those
really tough phone calls, it's said, because you're trying to
help them, but there's nothing you can do for him
because there's no medical evidence to help them out. So
(07:17):
if anything else, if you were currently in the military,
if you're injured, if you've had an injury, go get
seen for it, because later down the road it's gonna
come up, it's gonna be worse, and you're gonna regret
it when you didn't have that medical evidence for it.
Is there a specific moment or a memory that reminds
you how important is what you just said? Oh? Absolutely,
(07:39):
I did nine years active, the last probably six months
before I got out of that. I was one of
those guys, Hey, I'm tough. I don't need to go
to to sit call. I'm just gonna get out and
you know, move on with my life and I had
a buddy who was getting out, probably about a month
before me, and he just did not give me a break.
(08:00):
He said, go get seen for everything. I see you.
Get out of the chair. I see you. You know,
you're only thirty something years old, and you don't stand
up right at first. So I listened to him. I
went and got the medical evidence, and it benefited me greatly.
You know, I'm assuming that's one of the things that
makes your passionate is how much you relate to your
own experience and how much you see yourself and everyone
(08:22):
that needs your help. Right, Is that? Is that what
keeps you passionate about what you do? Absolutely A lot
of it is the education piece to it as well.
We've had active duty people call in, there's nothing we
can do for you while you're still serving the v
as for you afterwards, but we'll give them as much
info as we can because a lot of these people.
For instance, nineteen seventy three, there's uh the National Archives,
(08:46):
so if you were in the military, you get out
your medical records, go to the National Archives and they're
stored there. So if you ever need them, you can email,
call request them. Nineteen seventy three, the entire building burned
to the ground owned, So every veteran who joined before
nineteen seventy three, if they did not take those medical
(09:07):
records when they left, there is no medical evidence. That's
an entire generation that just you basically can't do anything
for and if nothing else, I just I don't want
to see another generation end up like that. What specific
challenges related to cover nineteen for the veteran community in europinion?
To be honest, Um, well, this is in the closeness
(09:30):
I've been with. When I was in the military, we
got so much preparation for Murphy's Law. If someone's gonna
go bad, just expected to go bad. And it was
almost like those uh we're kind of like, Okay, this
is out, just deal with it. And it was I'm
not gonna say we took it too lightly, but I
think a handful of his dead, you know, just kind of, oh,
(09:52):
this is something new in the media, it's not that
big a deal, let's move on, when in reality it was.
I mean, for us, when it first hit, every employee
we had was physically here in the building, and at
that point, you know, you got one or two that
contract COVID and that's a huge fear we're getting ready
to get the entire building sick. So then at that
(10:13):
point you got to start looking into how can we
get people home working remotely? So, I mean it was
all kinds of obstacles in the beginning leading up to it.
You have a moment, specifically during the pandemic where you
were proud how all of you gather around the issues
and try to problem solve so your services were still
available and you guys were still up and running. Absolutely
(10:36):
when we had to scare okay, we don't want to
worry about spreading the disease around. We got with our
I T department and in one day, less than twenty
four hours, we sent every single individual home with a laptop,
set them up on VPNs. The entire company was working
remote in one day. And I mean we were a
(10:57):
new company. This is something we've never attempted it. R
I T guy actually called a friend who had dealt
with it before and was like, what do we do
and he's like, well, you need about four months to
prep for it. It's like, that's not happening. We've got
one day. So we made it work, and I thought
that was just amazing. Throughout the pandemic, we were pretty
much challenged to kind of find where do we find serenity,
(11:19):
Where do we find our zan where do we find
a place to recharge, to regoog and you know, what
were the things that you did for yourself. So initially
when the pandemic hit, it's pretty rough on me. Um
At the time, I was reviewing the majority of the
mental health surveys coming in screening, making sure okay, yes,
(11:40):
you fit the bill for this. And it turns out
being locked up in your house and not talking to
anybody reviewing mental health surveys or take a toll on you.
It got me for a while. And I've always been
big on fitness, and obviously Jim shut down, and it
just I hit a slump and finally I just I
got up one day it was like, hey, this is enough.
(12:02):
Started up a workout routine out in the backyard. And
a big one is reading. I've always been an active person.
I enjoy reading, but it's like I'll read for fifteen
minutes and it's like, Okay, I gotta get up and
do something. And being stuck in the house learning to
entertain yourself, I'll say this, I learned patients I can
sit and finish the whole book. Now, so we all
(12:24):
did one of the biggest misconceptions events. How about veterans
and how would you like the attitudes to change, both
individuals and institutions. Well, I will say this. I can't
speak for everybody, but when I was in uniform, especially recruiting,
because you're out in the civilian population, they come up
to you, they got a lot of questions. It always
(12:46):
seemed to me that every civilian person I came up
to just imagined, you know, we were all these war
touring people live on the front line, eating our beams
and trenches, and it's like that's not the case. Like, yes,
some of us do go do that, but I mean
the army has hundreds of jobs and out of that,
you know, maybe twenty of them are combat arms, especially
(13:09):
while stay with the kids, like my nephews. When I
came back from deployment, I moved back home, a lot
of them were a little standoffish with me. You know,
they're like, this guy's been to war. Should I be
nervous of him? And it's like, I'm a normal person,
just like you and me. You know, you chose this
for a profession, I chose that for a profession. We're
normal people like everybody else. What do you feel like
(13:31):
our community can do more, like to really support the
work that you're doing and amplify your message. To me,
it's just the moral support. When I was in Afghanistan,
I mean, yeah, we had random people millist boxes of goodies,
thank you for this and that, But at the end
of the day, it was just knowing somebody's got your
back back home. I got letters from random people from
(13:54):
churches just hey, I know you're deployed. I want to
thank you, and you know, hey, I have no clue
who this per some is, but I feel so much
better now reading that. To me, it's just the moral support.
And when messages that you want to leave for veterans
and active service members, um, you know, and why would
you tell your younger self take care of yourself? One
(14:16):
of the big things when we get in the army,
you know they army, our country. This is what comes first,
and a lot of us take that seriously and we
will put our own health on the sidelines for that. Like, no,
take care of yourself please. I am grateful for your time, Tim,
and thank you, Thank you so much for your service
and your continuing devotion to the veterans and their families.
(14:39):
So I appreciate you a lot. Absolutely thanks for having me.
It was a pleasure, even though I was there for
the conversation with Tim here, and it again makes me
very proud. During all of my time with the US
so I've seen this incredible commitment to being of service,
which we've seen not just with Tim but with lots
(14:59):
of other essential voices on our show. Dame really embodies
the spirit of service to this community and his country,
and that makes me so grateful for my position with
the US. So it's awesome to see you connecting so deeply, Warmer,
And I mean you said it best. Tim's spirit of service,
as you said, is it's inspiring. And when we get
(15:20):
back from the break, we'll talk with Jane Horden, my
friend and a goal star wife who worked in the
Pentagon as a special assistant to the Chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff and as a senior advisor to
the Secretary of Defense. Jane, I am filled with joy.
(15:43):
I have nothing but the utmost admiration. Respect. I'm one
of your biggest fans, and I used to consider myself
a brother of yours. You know, for a little more context,
Jane and I have traveled the world visiting the troops.
She has devoted so much of her life for, you know,
the understanding and the support of all our service members
(16:04):
and their families, and I'm so proud of the work
you've done and what you've done for this country. Just
kind of diving into it, how did you feel listening
to Tim's story? I mean what stood out to you?
It was such an honor to hear from him and
to hear his whole journey and what he does now
to serve. And I think that's what stood out to
me is members of our military love to serve, and
(16:27):
they love to serve America. They love to serve people,
and once they leave the military, their heart of service
doesn't leave them. So I thought it was very incredible
to hear that after he got out, he wanted to
go back and continue to serve. Thank you, Jane. That
message of service that you're alluding to is definitely felt
throughout everything that Tim shared with us. And you know,
(16:49):
in the same vein of service, Wilmer, you're using your
skills to be of service with the USO. So how
did you feel listening to Tim's story? And you've been
working with the USO for a long time, so also
could you say more about the work that you do
with veterans. Yeah, I mean we went through my mind
is um how little we really understand and how connected
(17:10):
we are to the subject. So when you think about
someone who's devoted his life to continue to welcome the
ones he understands, it fills me up with joy to
see that there's people like Jane and like him that exists,
you know. So that's one thing that I kind of
take from it, is just to see how selfless he is,
you know. But I also you grew very frustrated, you know,
because there is so much about it that hasn't been
(17:32):
a topic, hasn't been a priority. And I think that
there's there's a time that we are entering. There's a
window for us to have national conversations, and you know,
I hope to God that we can continue to bring
their sacrifice to the forefront and never make it a trend,
make it a national treasure that we celebrate every day.
M M. And then what about your personal work with
(17:55):
the USO. I was working through an airport and and
to sort was when I came up to me and said, hey,
you know, we watched the seven Show, you know, and
we exchanged the DVDs of the seven in show after
a long day of doing what we gotta do. Then
those laughs really helps, So thank you, sir. And I
was like, you're kidding me, thank you? What are you?
What are you thanking me for? You know? And ultimately
I called my team and I said, hey, imagine if
(18:17):
I just apparently they liked the seven show there, maybe
I can come over there. And I didn't have no
idea how hard or how easy it could have been.
And I'm like, what if I just went over there
and then, you know, went to one of the bases
and just freaked him out. I'm like, man, what is
Fez doing here? You know? And that was that was
my perspective over there in my early twenties, you know,
Can I just go there and freak them out and
be like, what are you doing here? And I called
the U s O, and the U s O in
(18:38):
two seconds booked me, and in two seconds I was
already in an airport and going over there then, and
my first show taught me so much about myself and
what I was grateful for. It reminded me of why
I look at the American flag and with so much pride,
and why I I want to be of service, why
I want to pay it forward, what I want to
(18:59):
show up them. You know, I think that I don't
want to say we forget, because we never do for
us that don't, but I definitely want to say that
through these trips, I've learned to really love not just
our country, but the top of individuals our country create,
and that that was really something I took from that
work and and you know, and just entertaining and seeing
(19:19):
laughter and bringing a piece of home to them was Joe.
And I mean, that's the only thing I could do
to serve. Now, I wasn't wearing the uniform, but now
as the years went by, I took more responsibility, more
of a bigger role in the u s O. And
then now I serve as the global ambassador for the USO,
and it's one of my proudest moments. I remember watching
Bob Hope right as a little kid, you know, entertaining
the troops, and I wanted to be him, you know,
(19:41):
I just wanted to be on stage like him. M M.
That's really beautiful. Your message of wanting to serve and
be of service using your skills and your talents to
bring smiles on people's faces. It really echoes a sentiment
of service that's present throughout this entire conversation. Um, Jane,
you look like you wanted to add something, any thoughts
to share Now? I just love Wilmer's heart, and I'm
(20:02):
grateful for some of the stuff that he's championing and
leading the layon, especially some of the stuff he brought
up about the perception of service members by some communities,
but also the soul and the heart of them. And
I'm currently near seventh Special Forces Group right now down
an Eggland Air Force Base area, and I'm actually in
(20:24):
the home of Sergeant first Class Jaguar Gutiers, who was
killed in Afghanistan less than two years ago, and so
meeting his four kids. And I'm sitting here looking at
a sign that he wrote his daughters, he has three
of them and one son, and he wrote, one day
they'll be warriors, Mike Queen love Jaguar. And it was
(20:45):
a letter he wrote to his wife. And so just
you know, getting to know even these heroes that have
given their life for me and for all of us
and warriors like so money that Wilma and I get
to serve and and get to meet and be a
part of their world at such an honor, and there's
never enough that I could do for them. And it's
been it's changed my life to meet someone with the
(21:06):
same heart, and that's Wolmer. So that's kind of my
thoughts from that. And and yeah, for folks who may
not be aware, could you explain what a gold star
family means? Absolutely? So a gold star family is traditionally
a family of a service number that's killed in combat.
And so this family, their loved one was killed in Afghanistan,
(21:26):
So that came from actually World War two. Historically one
families would hang up blue star flags in their windows,
and so people would know who had a loved one
deployed by the blue star that would hang in their window,
and so when that loved one was killed, they would
change it to gold And that's kind of how the
(21:47):
meaning of gold star came to be. Yeah, you know,
I didn't know what a gold star family was before
speaking with you, So thanks for sharing that with us.
And it sounds like being a gold star wife is
really central to your identity and to your service, and
that your extremely proud of your husband's service as well.
It's important for Americans to know what a gold Star
family is. And I don't want them to know about
(22:07):
a gold Star family so they feel sorry for me.
I want them to know that I'm a gold Star
wife because that is the only way that they're going
to know about my husband who gave his life for them.
And so if I don't represent him, and if I
don't give him a name and a voice, people will
never know he existed. And that's why that's important. You're
honoring his memory and his legacy. And as a gold
(22:29):
Star family member, you've held multiple roles in the Pentagon
and you advocate for veterans and their families every day.
What would you say your biggest initiatives when you're advocating.
My top priorities are doing the best I can for
service members on the ground to ensure they continue the
mission to keep us safe. And the best way that
I found to do that and to honor our service
(22:49):
members isn't sure that they're taken care of, that their
families are taken care of. And so by doing that,
it ensures that we'll be able to preserve an all
volunteer for men and women will continue to volunteer to
fight because they know their families are going to be
taken care of in life and in death. And so
for me, it's the greatest honor of my life to
(23:11):
advocate for them while they're here, to make their lives
easier as they're defending me and my family and my freedoms.
And then so they know that if God forbid, something
should ever happen to them, I will always be there
for their family, and we as a country and our
government will always be there for their families no matter what.
We'll be right back after this break, Welcome back to
(23:33):
Essential Voices. You know, Jane, you and I have had
multiple conversations about this topic I'm about to bring up,
and it's a topic that I don't believe a lot
of our national community understands, specifically on what it could
cause and ripples of consequences and how it affects all
(23:53):
of us directly and indirectly, and especially our military community,
and that is the withdrawal from our Hondesstan. You know,
it's troubling. I've had some really dark moments about this.
I think you and I have had some sobering conversations
about this as well. But there has been plenty of
coverage by the media and conversation about the war as
a whole. You know, But when you see that coverage,
(24:18):
I mean, what do we wish was being discussed? What
do you feel we're missing in this narrative? As you know,
Afghanistan is a very special place in my heart. I've
been there on six different occasions and just love the
country and its people and deeply care about the mission
in Afghanistan. And so the number one thing that I
(24:40):
wish that our country would grasp is that our service
members fight the wars in which we tell them to fight.
And when I say we our government, and so most
Americans it's kind of interesting, a lot of them don't
equate their government with them. But we are a government
of the people, by the people, and for the people.
And whether we that are not our representatives representatives. That's
(25:03):
why members of Congress are Congressmen are called representatives or
senators because they are direct representatives of us who make
the laws and the policies that our service members have
to follow. So a lot of times the troops get
blamed for things that they literally have no control over.
You know, when they fight wars for a very long
time and people ask constantly, you know, why are they
(25:24):
in Afghanistan? Why did your husband die? What was it for? Well,
that's a question that I often like to turn back
on the American people, because when I sent my husband
to war, he was not my husband. I sent him
as America's son. He was all of ours, and so
the policies in which affected him and all of our troops,
you know, they have no control over They go and
(25:46):
they do what the government tells them to do. And
that's the number one thing that I wish that Americans
would really grasp is that they're just going and doing
what they have to do. They have no choice over
what they do. They have no choice over the mission.
And so if we don't know what the mission is,
we should probably start asking questions and getting involved as well.
And so that's kind of one of the main things
(26:06):
that's been on my heart a lot. So it sounds
like you haven't just worked with veterans and families here
in the United States. You just mentioned you've been Afghanistan
six times, and you've been on the ground abroad, so
can you tell us more about your experiences and the
folks that you've worked with? Lebron Absolutely, so each trip
has been completely different. That I've done a lot of
work with Afghan war widows. So their military was our allies,
(26:30):
and so we worked hand in hand with them, We
trained them, we did a lot of work with them.
And what a lot of people don't know either is
that they were losing massive amounts of people in their military. So,
for example, over twenty years of war, we've lost around undred.
The Afghan army was losing about twenty thousand a year
(26:51):
or so, so it was a lot and so I
was helping them come up with programs to ensure their
widows and their orphans were taken care of. So I
did a lot of stuff with that. I did some
work with orphanages and honestly, just learning about the Afghan people.
Like to be honest, you know, as military spouses, we
send our loved ones off to war. But as most Americans,
(27:12):
we don't know anything about these places that they go.
We don't know much about Afghanistan or Iraq. Afghanistan is
a beautiful place, their clothing is beautiful. They were these bright,
colorful dresses for their weddings. They had beautiful beaded gowns.
I didn't realize I usually go in the winter. This
year I was there for the summer. There's roses everywhere
(27:33):
and it was so green. It was just incredibly beautiful,
sitting in courtyard smelling the roses, drinking tea, listening to music,
and we danced in cobble, you know, we danced in
someone's courtyard and they did their traditional dance called the
ton and it was just the beautiful, wonderful time. Going
back to what we were talking about, Team spoke about
(27:55):
the pressure for many of the soldiers to may not
when they are angel either physically or mental. The you know, meanwhile,
the Pentagon is reporting a rise in active duty suicide rates.
With this in mind, can you speak a bit more
about the mental health of soldiers, veterans and their families.
I love to hear your thoughts a little bit more
on that. Absolutely, Thank you so much for bringing that up,
(28:15):
because it's one of the most important conversations we have
in the military community and in the Pentagon as well.
Mental health is incredibly important when you're sending your loved
one off to war, when you're fighting a war when
you've been through so much, it's something that definitely needs
a tune up, just like you need physical tune ups.
You know, just as we go in and get our
hearing checked or to go get our cholesterol checked, we
(28:37):
also have to go and get our mental health checked.
You know. There's been a lot of new initiatives on that.
We don't really feel in the military community that anyone
has really cracked the code on that. But as Tim
said as well, you know, it's in the culture of
the military to kind of man up because the number
one thing that service members want to do is they
want to get in the fight and they never want
(28:57):
to leave a teammate behind. So they don't ever want
to be told you have to sit on the bench
or you can't be in the fight, and so that's
one of the main hurdles we have to get over, um.
But to be fair in the past as well, like
a lot of times when people have come forward with
mental health concerns, they have been benched. So we're working
on that to make sure that if people come forward,
(29:18):
they're going to still be able to do their jobs
and get the health they need and do the best
we can to keep our force the healthiest they can
be and the most mentally fit they can be. I'm
also going to bring up something that's pretty new as
we're talking about Afghanistan. I've been in the military community
for maybe fifteen years now, and I've never seen anything
like we're seeing now. Um. I've never seen my whole
(29:39):
community walking around wounded, whether they admit it or not. UM.
And this has added some pretty deep wounds on top
of already a mental health crisis. And so there's a
lot of people hurting right now, and I'm just hoping
that the country and we can all wrap our arms
around each other and help each other grow and help
each other heal. I also love to act to that
(30:00):
something that you and I talked about the other day, Jane,
which is are somewhat and very unfortunate inability to see
the tide away that we're about to inherit with our
veterans as they return from Afghanistan. After this mission, however
you call the outcome of the mission, there are some
(30:22):
consequences that are going to be felt, and I would
look for you to help us describe a little bit
of the sentiment and also what's to come, What we
need to be ready for we have not even talked
about yet. What's the next phase of this conversation. And
that's the one that that really keeps me up at night.
It's a good conversation and it's very relevant. It's very
(30:45):
much needed because everything that's gone on in Afghanistan after
years of war, people have given up everything, their families.
Sometimes people are on multiple marriages, Sometimes they don't come home,
as we've talked about. But this whole conversation about the
war and what's to come with that is it's unlike
anything I've seen in my lifetime. And people going from
(31:08):
being tired already for fighting for twenty years too, was
it worth it? I'm getting asset almost every day. I
just sat in front of a different gold Star wife
about an hour ago. You know, English wasn't her first language,
but she said to me, did my husband died for nothing?
Do you think my husband died for nothing? And I
was just like, I'm not even ready to face these questions,
(31:30):
like how do I answer her as she's taking care
of her kids alone? You know, did your husband die
for nothing? And so I bring that up. It's very deep.
I bring it up because everyone's struggling with this right now,
and it shouldn't just be the one percent that have
served the country needs to think about this as well,
and they really need to look at if and I'm
not trying to steer people in one way or another.
(31:52):
If you feel like it was, that's great. If you
feel like it wasn't, that's your personal decision. But either way,
decisions need to be made going for war because our
service members deserve better than people believing that people died
for nothing or this was for nothing. Well, then we
need to stand up as Americans and we need to
be heard because we here in America have a voice
and we can make a difference that we can do something.
(32:15):
And so it's our duty, I feel, to protect our
war fighters as well and those that go on our
behalf and to ensure that something like that, if we
decide it wasn't worth it doesn't happen again. And so
with all these questions being asked, you know, and with
people feeling like what did happen in the end, you know,
it's adding on top of what was already there, and
(32:36):
it's adding a layer of hopelessness. And how do I
put the pieces in my head together about everything I've
done with my life, you know, why did I go
to war? Why did I have to do this? Why
did my family fall apart? Why did all of this happen?
And when you can't piece together the purpose, it just
adds on top of the mental health crisis that was
(32:57):
already there. And so I'm deeply concerned. And you know,
the other thing that I've noticed that's very interesting, it's
it's really beautiful and it's really wonderful. But with most
of the fundraisers I've been doing for Afghans and most
of the stuff I do for gold Star families and veterans,
it's always veteran single star families that contribute are the
(33:17):
first ones there. And sometimes I do think, why doesn't
the civilian community engage more? And one of my friends
explain to me, She's like, it's because people can't relate
to a service number that goes off to war and
dies because there's so few, or an Afghan child overseas
that's mom is brutally murdered by the Taliban and father,
(33:41):
And so I think just getting to know the military
community more, getting to know your neighbor, getting to know
people in your community, and engaging and learning from each
other because we think a certain way in the military community.
So how can we learn from you and how can
you learn from us so we can get to know
each other better and do more for our country as
a team. So one thing I've been hearing you talk
(34:01):
about a lot is service and healing and community, and
not just for folks in the American Armed Forces, but
also for families in Afghanistan and other countries. You mentioned
you've worked to raise money for Afghan refugees after the
American withdrawal, So could you speak a little bit about
the efforts to get Afghan allies the United States and
(34:21):
how to best support Afghani refugees once they're in the
United States. You know, I've firstly been involved with getting
multiple people over to America. It's been a very hard,
honestly horrific process. It's been very scary, very heart wrenching.
Many of us that have been involved in US haven't
gotten sleep in weeks because during the night here in
(34:42):
America is daytime in Afghanistan, and people are terrified because
everything went so quickly in the tal Band took control
so quickly, a lot of people didn't see it coming,
and so you know, people literally had to leave their homes.
One of my friends personally, i'm gonna call her Jamie
for today, I'm not going to use her name, but
she's twenty three years old. She held a very senior
(35:05):
position in the Afghan government, and she's a wonderful friend
of mine. She's incredible, and she literally had to leave.
I had to tell her, you can't bring your mom
or your sister, you can't bring anyone because I couldn't
guarantee her safety. And I had to tell her, you
have to go alone. So she literally left her country.
The Taliban's taking a lot of people's bags at the airport.
(35:26):
She left her whole life, lost her government, her dreams,
got on a plane. She didn't even know where she
was going to go. You know, there are several different
options where they were sending people. For the first country,
she ended up going to cut her Quitar. She was
there for a couple of days, then ended up going
to Germany, and now she's in processing in America. So
it takes a little while for them to get vetted,
(35:48):
process go through their paperwork. But she literally has nothing,
like nothing, only the clothes on her back. And so
it's one of the first times in my life that
I've been really raising money raising things for people because
they've left everything they've ever known, and so it's also
their dream to come to America, and I want to
(36:08):
ensure that we give them a warm welcome, and I
do all I can to show people that have been
through the worst thing that a human can go through
that we love them here in America. We're happy to
have them, and we still want to learn about their
culture and their people, and we're here for them. I'm
proud of the work that you do, Jane, I'm proud
of the partnership we have, and I'm excited for everyone
(36:31):
who's listening to this conversation to discover that there is
another perspective that unfortunately, it's not the invitation we're getting
from media or news. When you think about the news,
when you think about people's opinions on Facebook, they're met
with one size or the other. And I hope that
through this conversation, Jane, in through your beautiful words about
(36:54):
what it really was like, what it really is like,
in the reality of what it is, that we can
find some top a perspective and understand that Okay, maybe
as we know it. At the very least, let me
reopen my heart again and let me just really see
how I really feel. My passion comes from a hopeful
and exciting new horizon. I see, and I see opportunity,
(37:17):
and I see a road map that we are going
to continue to pay from community and all the way
up to the top level. And I can't help but
to think about what this all means for the next
generation and what we can do as individuals today. You know,
I would love for you, Jane, to have any words,
any reflections or what I just said, but you know,
(37:39):
also maybe provide a little bit of light for those
who are listening to you and understanding there there are
allies like you and I proudly call ourselves, you know,
that are out there really trying to not just connect,
but understand and move tactically into a place where we
can all be more aware of one another. Agreed, And
(37:59):
just like you said as well, to the veterans and
military community that's listening, Wilma and I are here for
you always, and we're never gonna stop serving you, We're
never gonna stop thanking you, and we're never gonna stop
being engaged in the community. You know, This country wasn't
founded for people to sit back and just enjoy the
freedoms that we have. Democracy is not a spectator sport,
you know. It was built for people to get involved
(38:22):
and to do things. And so this is a chance
for us to all get involved as a family and
do things to better this country and also wrap our
arms around this community as our service members start to
come home after years and years and years of fighting.
And so I think it's a wonderful way for us
all to come together on something that we're passionate about
and help rebuild this country. Jane, thanks so much for
(38:43):
your candor today, for speaking with us so openly, and
for your time. Thanks so much. Thank you. It was
an honor to be here. And thank you Wilma again
for facilitating this, for your leadership, and for having this
conversation because it's much needed and it's a beautiful thing.
So thank you. Wow. Even though I've gotten to talk
(39:04):
to Jane both on and off the clock, you know,
I'm always just amazed by listening to her speak. I mean,
I'm thankful that she was willing to talk to us
about such a difficult topic, especially when the wounds she
referenced are so fresh. I also loved hearing Jane talk
about her work with the Afghani widows and orphans. I
learned so much today. I definitely learned a lot from
(39:27):
both Jane and Tim this week. Thanks so much, Wilmur
for having me facilitate this conversation between you and Jane.
Of course, I wouldn't have it any other way. So Wilmer,
what do we have to look forward to next week? Well?
Next week, well speak with Essential Worker Blanca, a farmer
worker in California, followed by a round table with none
other than the iconic civil rights activists The Lotus and
(39:49):
lawyer activists Monica Remidz, the founder of Justice for Migrant Women.
Essential Voices with Wilmer val Drama. It's produced by me
m r Raquel, Alice in Shano and Kevin Rotkowski, with
production support from Associate producer Lillian Holman. Executive producers Wilmer
Val Drama, Adam Reynolds, Leo Clem and Aaron Hilliard. This
(40:11):
episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original music
by Will Risotti. Special thanks to this week's Essential Voice,
Tim Sutherland, a veterans guardian, and to our thought leader
Jane Horton. Additional thanks to William Taylor and Mark Christensen.
This is a Clamor and w V Entertainment production in
partnership with I Heart Radio's Michael Dura podcast Network. For
(40:33):
more podcasts from i Heeart, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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