August 10, 2021 • 38 mins
The trauma of COVID-19 has left no ones mental health unscathed. Everyone is affected- kids, older folx, and everyone in between- in unique ways. This week’s essential voice is Dr. Kavner, a school guidance counselor and therapist. Dr. Kavner works every day to support her students through the loss and emotional uncertainty of the pandemic. Roundtable guests: California Surgeon General Dr. Nadine Burke Harris, and the creator of the Latinx Therapy podcast Adriana Alejandre.
Learn more about Dr. Burke Harris’s work and ACES: https://numberstory.org/
Listen to Adriana’s “Latinx Therapy” podcast: https://latinxtherapy.com/podcast/
Episode Transcript: https://app.trint.com/public/46b8e96f-938e-4538-8865-f32d62a2147b
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, everyone in Wilmer bad Rama and I'm m ri Riquel.
Welcome back to Essential Voices. This week, we'll hear another
story from one of our essential workers. As always, will
follow this conversation with a roundtable discussion between thought leaders
who share our Essential workers commitment to service and care. Today,
we're going to hear from Dr Caroline Kavner, who's a
(00:23):
school guidance counselor and therapist in Los Angeles. Dr Kavner
works every day to support her students and has been
helping them grapple with the emotional uncertainty of the pandemic.
After we hear from Dr Kavner, will be in conversation
with the California Surgeon General, Dr Nadine Burke Harris and
with Adrianna Alejandre, a therapist and the founder of the
(00:44):
Latin Next Therapy podcast, which is one of my favorite podcasts.
Dr Burke Harris took office in and she's actually the
first Surgeon General in California. Dr Burke Harris has a
background as a family physician specializing in childhood trauma and
tell us all about aces or adverse childhood experiences and
her plan to screen for them and reduce toxic stress
(01:07):
by half in a generation. Meanwhile, Adrianna is a passionate
advocate for making mental health care accessible for all and
destigmatizing mental health care, specifically in the Latin Next community.
Through her practice and podcast, Adriana will speak to us
about how she's helped her clients and other mental health
practitioners of color cope with the trauma of the past
(01:28):
year and a half, and also shares with us her
vision for a brighter future or mental health care is
accessible for everyone. But First, Wilmer's conversation with school guidance
counselor and therapist Dr Caroline Kavner. I can't wait, Dr Gavner.
Story starts right now. Dr Kavner, thank you so much
(01:49):
for being here with me and having this conversation. UM,
going back a little bit too, when you first started, Um,
can you tell me about your first day and the
job and what got you involved? Like when they do
passionate over this. Well, my story is I went to
college and to become a journalist to work in public relations.
I had zero intention of going into becoming a therapist.
(02:11):
I didn't really know anything about the career. UM, my
sister had a really rough time in high school, um,
middle school and high school, and just through that experience
got to see the power of therapy and I got
to see how impactful mental health professionals can be. Two
people struggling, and I just felt the need to help
(02:33):
and to be there for others, and that's what drew
me to the career. I went into school counseling thinking
I would be a therapist and my first day, I
was sat down with a bunch of papers and my
assistant principle said, Okay, we need to schedule all these
students for their classes for the upcoming school year, and
(02:53):
we're really behind, so get going. Well, we didn't really
have training and scheduling, so I just kind of had
to flounder and figure it out. And that was my
first day. I think I thought, what did I get
myself into? But um, but I figured out the scheduling
part and it's all worked out. Maybe look us a
little bit of what are some of the cases, what
(03:14):
are some of the things that some of the conversations
that you're called on to have. Can you tell me
a little bit about how kind of like what it
was a day in life and you're you know, what
you were calling to do, and then a pandemic gets
introducing how to change. I'll never forget the week leading
up to the pandemic, our principle said, I want all
teachers to get ready and create lesson plans and be
(03:37):
ready to start teaching on zoom. And we're like, what's like,
what are you talking about? Like, okay, how do we
do this? What do we do? And we had no
idea what we were going into. And I think my
pre pandemic job and my pandemic job looked very similar
(03:57):
in many ways, outside of the fact that the problems
were amplified. There were more students who were depressed. There
were more students who were anxious, there were more students
who are were suicidal. There was more homelessness, more job
loss like we had. I mean the first weekend of
us being off, I had two students who lost their dad,
(04:20):
and just the grief, the loss that came about with
the pandemic that all existed prior, but it increased. So
it was responding and supporting and being there and being there.
However I could whether it was by phone, whether it
was by zoom, whether it was messaging my students and
(04:43):
emailing my students and even text messaging my students, and
it was challenging. I think that most challenging part of
it two parts. One, I didn't know if I was
reaching everybody, and I guess you never really know that,
but it just felt like there was much more of
a disconnect, especially as everything went on, where I knew
(05:07):
kids had to be struggling, and I hated that I
couldn't reach them or that I wasn't necessarily aware as
to what everybody was going through, and so that that
was tough, And the other tough part was reaching them.
I would hear like, this kid hasn't been in school
for weeks, we haven't heard from this student. Can you
(05:30):
go find them? And I felt like a detective a lot,
you know, figuring out like, Okay, I've got these phone
numbers and emergency contacts and nobody's answering, and I'm messaging
this kid and I can't go to his or her
home because it's the pandemic. And I felt like I
was wrangling a lot to try to wrangle the students
and really hunt them down, which I really grew in
(05:52):
appreciation for being on campus and realized how much that
helped to be able to connect to the kids and
to get ahold. What do you think with some of
those reoccurring conversations you were having with the kids and families,
you know, what were some of the things they were
struggling with the most, Maybe emotionally, maybe internally, you know,
(06:12):
but what were some of those turmoils and what was
affecting them. The conversation I had most frequently was just
lack of motivation, feeling isolated, lacking drive to why continue?
Why do I need to do this school stuff? My
parents lost their job, or I lost my parents, or
(06:33):
you know, I'm babysitting my siblings. I'm not even home,
I'm working to try to make ends meet. And why
is school importance at that point? And how do you
ration with that thinking? And how do you ration with
that thought? I mean, it seems really challenging. I can't
even imagine, right being a parent. I'm a new parent now,
(06:53):
I have a four month old, and I can't even imagine,
you know, how do you have a logical conversation when
everything they knew and they had program to have as
a pattern, as a scheduled you know, safety and and
all of that. It's kind of throwing out the window.
You know, how do you answer those questions like how
do you even advise? Yeah, well, first of all, congratulations,
(07:14):
that's also on your baby. Um. I think the therapist
you're used to having difficult conversations and it's something that
I never thought would be easy to do. But it
is easy to do in a sense because you just
have empathy. You say, you know what, I get it,
(07:34):
and I often will share my own experiences like honey,
I understand I don't want to wake up sometimes either,
and this does feel really uncertain and this is scary,
and this is challenging, and just be there for them.
Just empathize, I guess is what you do and and normalize.
(07:56):
How do you think that we as a community can
come together to really in a more comprehensive way support
not just your efforts, but your self care, your well being,
you know how I would love to hear a little
bit about that, And also like any words of wisdom
you will have to any future essential therapists out there
who are going about to enter into the journey you
have been doing so far, So I would love to
(08:16):
hear about that. I think, like what can the community do?
What can others do? And I'm not going to say
just for myself, but what I would love to see
as a reduction in stigma with mental health. My dad's
a medical doctor and he used to always say to
his patients, if you're diabetic, would you take your influence?
(08:38):
And they're like, yeah, duh, Well why won't you take
care of the depression? Why so hesitant? Why? Because I
think in society, I think it's a community. I think, culturally,
whatever it is, we think that when it comes to
our behavior, when it comes to our thoughts, that we
(08:59):
should be able to control it, that we should be
able to handle it. We don't think about that when
it comes to our physical health, but we sure do
think that when it comes to our mental health. And
so I think as a community, just working to end
that stigma and to understand that it's okay not to
be okay, it's okay to ask for help. And I
(09:21):
know I only have my small window, but I feel
like at my school we really push that, We really
like it's okay, you know, we all have our stuff, everybody,
and just ask for help. If you're parents, or your
sibling or your cousin or your friend is struggling, don't
(09:41):
tell them to just suck it up and to fix
it and to push through this isn't that challenging? Support
them and see, you know, maybe they do need attention
and maybe they do need assistance, and it very well
could be out of their control. And I think just
ignore leedging that for therapists all around, it would be
(10:03):
great because we fight that every single day. I have
that conversation all the time with students and parents, and
that would be great. That's a big ask, but that
would be great. I love that reminder and I really
appreciate that you could bring that to light again because
I think it's important to lean on the people you
love and trust. I mean, and look, sometimes at home
(10:23):
we might not have the understanding of the comprehension we
may need. And for that and there is incredible souls
like you, Dr Kavner who is willing to listen and
go the extra mile to make us feel heard, makes
us feel comprehended, and makes us feel normal that there's
nothing wrong with us as long as we're doing the work.
So that's important. So I just want to say thank
(10:45):
you so much for letting us borrow some of this
time and and for being such an example, and for
all those future therapists out there, you know, I I
hope that this conversation is a good reminder of the
passion that you know and and ignite the passion you
have for this career. Any words, anything else you'd like
to add. I think that that's good for any future therapist.
(11:05):
I would definitely say, just keep going. It's an awesome career.
It's so fulfilling, and um it's challenging at times, but
it's so worth it. People are worth it, and and
so just continue the journey and keep being going to
one another beautiful, beautiful, and never forget as part of
your career. Take care of yourself. Absolutely, it's important. So
(11:29):
I appreciate you so much. Thank you again for your
time on this. You're welcome, thanks for having me. I
appreciate it. I really love what Dr Kavner was saying
about starting from a point of empathy and sharing her
own experiences with her mental health with her students. When
we take her approach working with her students and apply
it to larger systems, this is how we can make
(11:51):
real progress. When we get back from the break, we'll
talk with California Surgeon in General Dr Nadine Burke Harris
and Latin X Therapy podcast create Ariana, alejandri about how
they want to shape our mental health infrastructure moving forward.
(12:13):
We're here today with Dr Nadine Burke Harris, the Surgeon
General of California, and with Adriana Lejandre, the creator of
the Latin X Therapy podcast. Dr Burke Harris, Adriana, Welcome, Wilmer,
take it away. I'm so proud to be here with
you both. Dr Burke Harris. You're the first person to
(12:34):
hold the position of Surgeon General of California. First of all,
super proud that a person of color can lead those
conversations for our state, considering how diverse our state is,
and only we know what affects our communities of color,
and to have a leader that looks like all of
us and sounds like all of us is incredibly important.
(12:55):
So I'm very proud to have you on for this conversation.
So what was it like to be the first in
that position and to give phase with something as big
as the global pandemic? Um It was hard, I will
not lie about that. You know, it's an It's an
interesting situation, I would say, becoming the first certain general
of the State of California for me, has been a
(13:16):
complete dream come true. List for real is my dream job.
I love caring for people, I love caring for communities,
I love helping people be healthier. And then you know
COVID and that was really really intense. I will say
I have never worked so hard in my entire life,
(13:36):
including during my residency. I mean it was really really intense,
but it was also beautiful. People showed up and there
were people working literally around the clock to save lives.
And we saw it among our first responders, among our
health care workers, among just and it felt really special.
(14:01):
And it's not over yet, so we're still working hard,
but it has been I would say a defining experience
for me. I've certainly learned a lot. And you know,
one of the things that was really important to me
is showing up authentically, and you know, as a black woman,
and you know, my Spanish is not that hot, but
anytime I could if I could deliver a message and
(14:24):
then deliver the same message as good as I can
get it Spanish, that was it was more important. Ye
damne California, Okay, ablamos nue So that was that was
you know what, I'd be trying to do a little
bit of that. Amazing, amazing. I first of all incredibly
(14:47):
proud of you, but also incredibly proud to hear you
speak Spanish. It's just it goes to tell you that
there are leaders of our community out there that care
enough to speak not just the language, but understand the
culture or two you know, and I just really really
command you for that. That's unbelievable. There's beautiful and thank
you for sharing a Spanish and please keep speaking as
(15:08):
at least they know I'm trying, even even if it's
not perfect, they can tell that I'm making an effort.
So Adrianna, could you tell us a little bit about
your reaction to Dr Kavner's story, and then Dr Burke
Harris could you do the same. Absolutely, thank you so much.
I think everything that Dr Kavner mentioned really resonated. I
(15:30):
don't work in the school setting, but I work with families.
I work with individuals, and I hear a lot of
stories through our Instagram platform as well, people that share
about what they're going through. And we really did see
the big mental health crisis at the start of the pandemic.
Just about everything was triggering, and the other side that
(15:51):
I saw, because I work with a lot of mental
health professionals of color as well, is burnout and a
lot of fatigue in general, and being in the helping
profession has some burnout. But this just really we had
to stay there, you know, be there for our clients,
and we wanted to, but on the back end, we
were also experiencing confusion and our own emotions. So a
(16:14):
lot of us did get back into our own therapy.
But I think what Dr Kavner mentioned in terms of
becoming an investigator and trying to find her students, as
much as I wish we also as therapists could have
done that, we weren't totally able to with some clients
because there's a certain level of boundaries right in other
(16:36):
settings outside of the school, like private practice settings. So
we did have some clients that didn't come back because
of fear, that didn't want to do tell a therapy
because that was new to them too, and so everything
felt so uncertain and was so uncertain, and that was
valid and it's scary validating uncertainty for a lot of clients.
(16:57):
And there's no manual right that therapists were given to
learn how to deal with the pandemic and the mental
health crisis. But that definitely resonated and it took me
back to March times. So, Dr Burke Harris, what were
your thoughts on Dr Kavner's story and could you speak
a little bit about adverse childhood experiences which are also
(17:18):
known as aces. Yeah, I'll jump in and say that
as a certain general of California, when I was first
looking at the data and the information that was coming
in about COVID and about the pandemic, that was one
of the lowest points for me because I kind of
immediately flashed forward to all of the impacts. And one
(17:41):
of the big guest was as we were getting ready
to do the shelter in place and recognizing what that
would mean in terms of the fact that we had
this huge stressor this huge scary thing, and that the
typical resources that we do to overcome things that are
(18:03):
stressful and scary reach out to the people that we
love right touch base with our family and and connect
with our friends and the people that we trust. So
much of that was being cut off because of the
sheltering place and just because of the pandemic. It was
all about being away from the people that we normally
(18:25):
connect with, and you know, kids not being in school,
all of the above, and that was I remember right
at the beginning of the pandemic because my background as
a pediatrician is on the effects of stress and trauma
and adversity on our health, on children's developing brains and bodies,
(18:48):
and a lot of that we learned from the research
on adverse childhood Experiences, which was this huge study that
was done by the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control
and Prevention, and what they found was that when we
experience stressful or traumatic experiences, especially during childhood, when our
(19:09):
brains and bodies are just developing, that it actually can
change the way our brains and bodies develop and it
can lead to significantly increase risk of mental health conditions,
which we're seeing now with the pandemic, of behavioral health conditions,
substance dependence, other things which we're also seeing, but also
(19:33):
of health concerns later on down the line, things like
asthma and diabetes and heart disease and stroke. Because it's
all connected, right, The brain and the body are all connected.
And what we now understand is that when we experience
something really stressful. It releases a ton of stress hormones
(19:54):
in our bodies, and there are a couple of different
ways that our bodies can calm that down, and part
of it is through our relationships, connecting with people that
we love and trust. Therapy and mental health treatment as
another one. Exercise is another one. And then what we
(20:15):
saw in the pandemic was all of that stuff got
so much harder, and so it's it's not a surprise
some of the trends that we've seen with many, many
more people struggling with their emotional health and well being.
We'll be right back after this break. Welcome back to
Essential Voices A. Brianna, you specialize in working with adults
(20:35):
who have PTSD and trauma. Do you think that you've
witnessed the impact of these ACES on your patients? And
I guess more broadly, how have your patients been responding
to the pandemic in general? Yes, absolutely, I definitely witnessed
all the implications and impact of the pandemic in relation
(20:55):
to the ACES, and I actually integrate a lot out
of psych education and the A study specifically with my clients.
I specialized in trauma, as you mentioned, and this information
was actually a life changer for many of my clients
and the way that they adapted to coping during the pandemic,
because many of them felt invisible, right, like invisible in
(21:20):
terms of, oh, you know, I don't have to worry
about heart disease, I don't have to worry about depression.
Because if it's not affecting them in the now, right,
if they don't see any implication of it, then it's
easier to turn the other way from it. But we
really have to reframe the way that we see therapy,
especially in my culture, people tend to go to it
(21:42):
when they're in a moment of crisis, when it's rock
bottom time. But we can really really help ourselves by
using therapy as a preventative strategy, just normalizing it really
And so I think that when that information has been
brought up in therapy and they're able to become more
(22:03):
aware of it, it kind of becomes real to them
and they're able to recognize it and get more motivated
in their own healing journey because there's something that proves,
you know, if they come from a lineage of trauma,
then there's a high risk of implications and consequences towards
their mental health and health in the now and in
(22:25):
the future. And so that's how I witnessed the impact
of ACES and my clients, and definitely people that had
complex PTSD in their history experienced higher levels of depression
and to a sideality, higher levels of anxiety as well.
During the entire trajectory of the pandemic, many of them
(22:46):
were able to, at least on my case load, we're
able to get to a baseline. But when people come
from intergenerational trauma, wellness has to become a lifestyle versus
just a one and done type of deal. And so
in terms of the question how have my patients been
responding to the pandemic, that's essentially how they really dedicated
(23:07):
themselves to their wellness and their well being, seeing the
connection that, oh, when I took that month off, it
did not go too well. And I tend to work
also on this basis of you know, we come in
weekly when that's necessary, and then when they reach a goal,
we take off a week in the schedule if it's
clinically appropriate, until they graduate to every other week so
(23:28):
that they're able to feel their progress. They can feel
the difference. Dr Burke Harris. So. Dr Kavner was speaking
about the major mental health impact of COVID and remote
learning on her students during her conversation, and as an
expert on these adverse childhood experiences, could you speak to
(23:48):
the long term effect that the pandemic could have on
children and teens. Yeah, I will have to say that
I completely agree with everything that Adrianna just said. An
in fact, this is one of the things that so
I'm a full disclosure, total science nerd, like I'm a
super super a science geek. And one of the things
(24:10):
that the science of adverge childhood experiences and toxic stress
shows us is that, first of all, when we've experienced
adversity in childhood or in our past, right, even though
we may be feeling fine, we may be not noticing anything,
it can make us more vulnerable to the impacts of
(24:34):
other stressors later on down the line. And so when
COVID hits right, we're thinking about the kids who are
experiencing that as an adversity in their day to day
lives and all the changes and all of the disruption,
and then we're also thinking about the adults who are
experiencing all this stress changes disruption in the context of
(24:59):
you know, it's across your whole life course. So this
is an additional stressor that's kind of stacked up on
top of anything that happened in the past. And so
for many people, what they found was that it was
enough to kind of tip them over. But one of
the things that I think, and speaking to what you
mentioned Adriana in terms of there are so many folks
(25:22):
who feel like, I'm not going to the doctor until
it's something terrible, right, And so one of the things
I love to do. I have this red yellow green
chart or green yellow, red, and like green, is what
do I do for self care to keep myself doing fine? Right?
So for me, that's exercise, it's meditation, it's good nutrition.
(25:44):
And then what does it look like when I'm not
doing so hot? Because all of us, all of us
have times when we're doing better and when we're doing worse,
and that's not something to be afraid of. It's normal,
it's life. And so what does not do in so
hot look like? For me? What does yellow look like
(26:04):
for me? Oh, maybe it means that my appetite is
out of control, or maybe it means my mood is
a little bit lower, or I'm having trouble sleeping. What
do I do when I'm feeling that way? Oh? I know, Okay,
I know. I gotta call my one girlfriend who always
gets exactly how I feel and helps me feel validated.
You know, maybe I'm going to exercise a little bit
(26:26):
more as an adult. I'm definitely gonna, you know, lay
off that glass of wine. You know, it's fine when
I'm feeling fine, but when I'm feeling low, it's better
that I don't because that's what helps my brain to
be able to recover. Right. And then you know, what
does red look like like? Oh my goodness, the wheels
have seriously fallen off the cart. I feel terrible. Okay,
(26:47):
what does that look like? How do I recognize it?
How do I know? Oh my goodness, this is the
time when I'm supposed to do the thing. I've got
to go call my therapist. I've got to have a
conversation with someone who I really love and trust. I've
got to consider medications. I've got to whatever it is,
and then that's what helps to bring us back on track.
(27:09):
That's just something I love doing. I really love that green, yellow,
red system. Doctor Birg Harris, and I also love that
it's analogous to a stoplight, because it's an image that
almost everyone can relate to as a physical act of
either you know, slowing down if you see a yellow light,
or speeding up if you're seeing a green light, or
(27:30):
stopping all together when there's a red light. But sometimes
it's hard to be in touch with yourself to look
internally and say, okay, I'm in a red light moment
that means I have to stop and take care of myself.
Whereas if you find yourself in a yellow moment, it's
almost like a warning of hey, it's it's time to
slow down a little bit. And a green light moment, well,
(27:53):
you know, green is gold in this situation. So um
switching gears a bit Adrian that what would you suggest
for folks who are hesitant to try therapy and what
would be your approach if let's say someone comes to
you and it's curious about starting therapy, but they're perhaps
you know, reluctant due to stigma. Ultimately, I think therapy
(28:17):
is a process and a journey per person as well,
and there are people that are very hesitant and afraid.
So if you identify with those feelings. I think a
lot of reflection and even some self help can be beneficial.
Some research, as I mentioned earlier, in terms of who
you envisioning your therapist to be, how you found them,
(28:38):
you know, who you found them from, could be beneficial.
But I think if you're willing to go to therapy,
it's a way to understand yourself more than change anything
and lead you into a whole journey and lifestyle of
wellness and of healing. Thank you, Adrianna and Dr Burke Harris.
What would you say to your patients or friend or
(29:00):
strangers who are considering therapy? For myself as a physician,
one of the things that I've said often to my
patients is to offer them therapy as a resource to
help with some of the other things that they may
not recognize or an issue for example, like we know
that when the body is making a ton of stress
(29:21):
hormones it can affect you know, our diabetes, right, And
so I've had patients who are have diabetes that's out
of control and I say, hey, you know what I
want to get a I want to put a finger
on how we're managing stress and what you're doing and
bring you additional resources there, right, And so I've thrown
it in for all kinds of things, kids who weren't
(29:41):
growing well, kids who were having really severe asthma, all
different things, to again get back to that mind body connection,
because I think so many people think about it just
in terms of am I crazy? Is it my mental health?
And it's like it's part of our total well being? Right,
And so most people recognize, oh, you want to exercise,
(30:03):
you know, exercise that part of your mind that supports
your well being, in your connection to others and calming
down your your stress response. And that's a big part
of it as well. So how can we support the
mental health professionals who in turn are supporting the folks
in this country? Go ahead, Dr burg Harris. Oh yeah,
(30:24):
you guys can tell I'm dying to answer this question, right,
because this is this is my damn man. This is
what I do every day for me, the big picture
and what I am working towards. I have set a
bold goal to cut adverse childhood experiences and toxic stress
in half in a generation. Of course, I said that,
(30:45):
and then COVID happened. So I have my work cut
out for me. But I will tell you is that
Step one is raising awareness and reducing stigma. That's what
number story dot org is all about. It's about raising awareness,
offering people resources, reducing stigma. Step two is doing early
detection because one of the things that Dr Kavner talked
(31:06):
about was how challenging it is to be trying to
reach so many of her kids to try to understand
what they're going through and provide them with the right resources.
And in California we launched an initiative called the ACES
Aware Initiative. And this is before you even get to
a therapist. This is like your regular doctor, you're going
(31:27):
for your check up, right, we're screening for ACES. We've
trained almost twenty thousand healthcare providers to screen for ACES
because what the science shows is that early detection and
early intervention improves outcomes. So that makes everybody's job easier.
And then on top of that, as I mentioned, the
governor is investing four billion dollars incomprehensive mental and behavioral
(31:51):
health for children and youth. And what that means is
a big part of that is providing mental health care
ware kids are in school right and on top of that,
with our safe reopening of schools. We have additional resources
to make sure that educational professionals, teachers, school therapists, folks
(32:18):
like Dr Kavner actually have resources for self care right
self care for those who are caring for our young people.
And so all of this, this is the Surgeon General thing.
Like my whole, my whole thing is to like get
all these pieces and figure out how do you put
the pieces of the puzzle together, because that's public health, right,
(32:41):
That's how we do it. And I'm so excited. I'm
so grateful to be able to be of service in
this moment of need and to be able to show
up my way right authentically and to be able to
reach out to our communities. Adrianna, where are your thoughts? Yeah?
I love that. I love that vision. We need that
(33:03):
vision definitely. And to add I think when I envisioned
an answer for this, the first step for me is
for graduate programs for the curriculum that teaches therapists to
be therapist, such an important part in people's lives. Is
to diversify that curriculum and to also decolonize that curriculum
(33:25):
so that there's less harm that goes on. Because there's
validity in people's pain and in people not wanting to
go to therapy because of previous harm that was caused
in the field. So we recognize that, we honor that,
and we want to change that. But that also has
to change from a national or even global level of recognition,
(33:46):
where this curriculum that prepares therapists for it to be
more representative and be more open to seeing the clients
as people. Alright. So then the next step that I
would say is normalizing mental health overall, as Dr Burke
Harris has emphasized, and so I'll go into step three
(34:07):
is to have mental health care for all. So normalize
it in that sense and a policy sense uh systemic
change also that recognizes farm workers, immigrants, and essential workers
within this infrastructure, within this systemic change, because we know
that many times they're excluded out of a lot of
the bonuses and the policies creating the resources that are
(34:30):
needed to support these vulnerable, the very resilient communities that
help us to keep going and ultimately for communities to
be given spaces to heal and begin. That begins with
dismantling these oppressive systems that cause harm to communities of color.
So uplifting and amplifying professionals of color that are doing
(34:50):
the work. And I don't know exactly how that is,
but I know we need to unite and advocate for
more of that to happen. I just want to point
out Dr Burke Harris, your passion and your energy for
your agenda ahead gives me so much peace. It brings
(35:12):
me so much joy to see someone in a position
of leadership embodying the solution, understanding the language. And I
mean that metaphorically because there is a way that we
have to communicate this and the fact that you're in
the driver's seat it brings me so much joy. So
I'm so so proud to be here to see the
beginning of what I know will be an incredible legacy,
(35:34):
and excited to do more. And Aleanna, do you know
how proud I've been of you for so many years already?
You know, I've seen the evolution of Ariana, you know,
and so many aspects of her career, and it's been
beautiful to see her becomes such a leader as well.
Um m R. I'm floored by this conversation today and
I want to thank both of you, Dr Burke Harris
(35:55):
and Adrianna for being so present and open with us today.
It's been amazing to hear your wisdom. So thank you again,
Oh thank you. It's been our privilege. Thank you so much.
Dr Burke Harris mentioned number story dot org where you
can go to learn more about adverse childhood experiences and
(36:18):
how you are a loved one may have been affected.
You can also check out Adriana's podcast called Latin x
Therapy wherever you listen to your favorite shows. What I
love about both these resources is that they help keep
the conversation about our mental health care going. Yes, and
the more we keep the conversation about mental health going,
the more we challenge this stigma of mental health and
(36:41):
work tours. As society where mental health resources are available
for all, We'll keep learning and growing as we continue
to talk to our essential workers. Next time on Essential
Voices Join us next time to hear us talk to
Denise Frederick, a domestic worker, followed by our roundtable guest
Stina men Apgar, the Culture Change Director at the National
(37:03):
Domestic Workers Alliance. Essential Voices with Wilmer Val Drama is
produced by me m r Riquel, Alison Shano, and Kevin Rotkowski,
with production support from Associate producer Lillian Holman. Executive producers
Wilmer val Drama, Adam Reynolds, Leo Clem, and Aaron Hilliard.
This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original
(37:25):
music by Will Risotti. Special thanks this week's essential voice,
Dr Caroline Kavner, and to our thought leaders California Surgeon
General Dr Nadine Burg Harris and the founder of the
Latino Therapy podcast, Adriana Lejndre. Additional thanks to Brandon Piper,
Dennis Saint Rose, Julie Rooney, Talia Fatante, and Quinlin Fitzgerald.
(37:45):
This is a CLAIMER and w V Entertainment production in
partnership with I Heart Radio's Michael Dura podcast Network. For
more podcasts from I Heart, visit the i Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Two
Hi, everyone in Wilmer bad Rama and I'm m ri Riquel.
Welcome back to Essential Voices. This week, we'll hear another
story from one of our essential workers. As always, will
follow this conversation with a roundtable discussion between thought leaders
who share our Essential workers commitment to service and care. Today,
we're going to hear from Dr Caroline Kavner, who's a
(00:23):
school guidance counselor and therapist in Los Angeles. Dr Kavner
works every day to support her students and has been
helping them grapple with the emotional uncertainty of the pandemic.
After we hear from Dr Kavner, will be in conversation
with the California Surgeon General, Dr Nadine Burke Harris and
with Adrianna Alejandre, a therapist and the founder of the
(00:44):
Latin Next Therapy podcast, which is one of my favorite podcasts.
Dr Burke Harris took office in and she's actually the
first Surgeon General in California. Dr Burke Harris has a
background as a family physician specializing in childhood trauma and
tell us all about aces or adverse childhood experiences and
her plan to screen for them and reduce toxic stress
(01:07):
by half in a generation. Meanwhile, Adrianna is a passionate
advocate for making mental health care accessible for all and
destigmatizing mental health care, specifically in the Latin Next community.
Through her practice and podcast, Adriana will speak to us
about how she's helped her clients and other mental health
practitioners of color cope with the trauma of the past
(01:28):
year and a half, and also shares with us her
vision for a brighter future or mental health care is
accessible for everyone. But First, Wilmer's conversation with school guidance
counselor and therapist Dr Caroline Kavner. I can't wait, Dr Gavner.
Story starts right now. Dr Kavner, thank you so much
(01:49):
for being here with me and having this conversation. UM,
going back a little bit too, when you first started, Um,
can you tell me about your first day and the
job and what got you involved? Like when they do
passionate over this. Well, my story is I went to
college and to become a journalist to work in public relations.
I had zero intention of going into becoming a therapist.
(02:11):
I didn't really know anything about the career. UM, my
sister had a really rough time in high school, um,
middle school and high school, and just through that experience
got to see the power of therapy and I got
to see how impactful mental health professionals can be. Two
people struggling, and I just felt the need to help
(02:33):
and to be there for others, and that's what drew
me to the career. I went into school counseling thinking
I would be a therapist and my first day, I
was sat down with a bunch of papers and my
assistant principle said, Okay, we need to schedule all these
students for their classes for the upcoming school year, and
(02:53):
we're really behind, so get going. Well, we didn't really
have training and scheduling, so I just kind of had
to flounder and figure it out. And that was my
first day. I think I thought, what did I get
myself into? But um, but I figured out the scheduling
part and it's all worked out. Maybe look us a
little bit of what are some of the cases, what
(03:14):
are some of the things that some of the conversations
that you're called on to have. Can you tell me
a little bit about how kind of like what it
was a day in life and you're you know, what
you were calling to do, and then a pandemic gets
introducing how to change. I'll never forget the week leading
up to the pandemic, our principle said, I want all
teachers to get ready and create lesson plans and be
(03:37):
ready to start teaching on zoom. And we're like, what's like,
what are you talking about? Like, okay, how do we
do this? What do we do? And we had no
idea what we were going into. And I think my
pre pandemic job and my pandemic job looked very similar
(03:57):
in many ways, outside of the fact that the problems
were amplified. There were more students who were depressed. There
were more students who were anxious, there were more students
who are were suicidal. There was more homelessness, more job
loss like we had. I mean the first weekend of
us being off, I had two students who lost their dad,
(04:20):
and just the grief, the loss that came about with
the pandemic that all existed prior, but it increased. So
it was responding and supporting and being there and being there.
However I could whether it was by phone, whether it
was by zoom, whether it was messaging my students and
(04:43):
emailing my students and even text messaging my students, and
it was challenging. I think that most challenging part of
it two parts. One, I didn't know if I was
reaching everybody, and I guess you never really know that,
but it just felt like there was much more of
a disconnect, especially as everything went on, where I knew
(05:07):
kids had to be struggling, and I hated that I
couldn't reach them or that I wasn't necessarily aware as
to what everybody was going through, and so that that
was tough, And the other tough part was reaching them.
I would hear like, this kid hasn't been in school
for weeks, we haven't heard from this student. Can you
(05:30):
go find them? And I felt like a detective a lot,
you know, figuring out like, Okay, I've got these phone
numbers and emergency contacts and nobody's answering, and I'm messaging
this kid and I can't go to his or her
home because it's the pandemic. And I felt like I
was wrangling a lot to try to wrangle the students
and really hunt them down, which I really grew in
(05:52):
appreciation for being on campus and realized how much that
helped to be able to connect to the kids and
to get ahold. What do you think with some of
those reoccurring conversations you were having with the kids and families,
you know, what were some of the things they were
struggling with the most, Maybe emotionally, maybe internally, you know,
(06:12):
but what were some of those turmoils and what was
affecting them. The conversation I had most frequently was just
lack of motivation, feeling isolated, lacking drive to why continue?
Why do I need to do this school stuff? My
parents lost their job, or I lost my parents, or
(06:33):
you know, I'm babysitting my siblings. I'm not even home,
I'm working to try to make ends meet. And why
is school importance at that point? And how do you
ration with that thinking? And how do you ration with
that thought? I mean, it seems really challenging. I can't
even imagine, right being a parent. I'm a new parent now,
(06:53):
I have a four month old, and I can't even imagine,
you know, how do you have a logical conversation when
everything they knew and they had program to have as
a pattern, as a scheduled you know, safety and and
all of that. It's kind of throwing out the window.
You know, how do you answer those questions like how
do you even advise? Yeah, well, first of all, congratulations,
(07:14):
that's also on your baby. Um. I think the therapist
you're used to having difficult conversations and it's something that
I never thought would be easy to do. But it
is easy to do in a sense because you just
have empathy. You say, you know what, I get it,
(07:34):
and I often will share my own experiences like honey,
I understand I don't want to wake up sometimes either,
and this does feel really uncertain and this is scary,
and this is challenging, and just be there for them.
Just empathize, I guess is what you do and and normalize.
(07:56):
How do you think that we as a community can
come together to really in a more comprehensive way support
not just your efforts, but your self care, your well being,
you know how I would love to hear a little
bit about that, And also like any words of wisdom
you will have to any future essential therapists out there
who are going about to enter into the journey you
have been doing so far, So I would love to
(08:16):
hear about that. I think, like what can the community do?
What can others do? And I'm not going to say
just for myself, but what I would love to see
as a reduction in stigma with mental health. My dad's
a medical doctor and he used to always say to
his patients, if you're diabetic, would you take your influence?
(08:38):
And they're like, yeah, duh, Well why won't you take
care of the depression? Why so hesitant? Why? Because I
think in society, I think it's a community. I think, culturally,
whatever it is, we think that when it comes to
our behavior, when it comes to our thoughts, that we
(08:59):
should be able to control it, that we should be
able to handle it. We don't think about that when
it comes to our physical health, but we sure do
think that when it comes to our mental health. And
so I think as a community, just working to end
that stigma and to understand that it's okay not to
be okay, it's okay to ask for help. And I
(09:21):
know I only have my small window, but I feel
like at my school we really push that, We really
like it's okay, you know, we all have our stuff, everybody,
and just ask for help. If you're parents, or your
sibling or your cousin or your friend is struggling, don't
(09:41):
tell them to just suck it up and to fix
it and to push through this isn't that challenging? Support
them and see, you know, maybe they do need attention
and maybe they do need assistance, and it very well
could be out of their control. And I think just
ignore leedging that for therapists all around, it would be
(10:03):
great because we fight that every single day. I have
that conversation all the time with students and parents, and
that would be great. That's a big ask, but that
would be great. I love that reminder and I really
appreciate that you could bring that to light again because
I think it's important to lean on the people you
love and trust. I mean, and look, sometimes at home
(10:23):
we might not have the understanding of the comprehension we
may need. And for that and there is incredible souls
like you, Dr Kavner who is willing to listen and
go the extra mile to make us feel heard, makes
us feel comprehended, and makes us feel normal that there's
nothing wrong with us as long as we're doing the work.
So that's important. So I just want to say thank
(10:45):
you so much for letting us borrow some of this
time and and for being such an example, and for
all those future therapists out there, you know, I I
hope that this conversation is a good reminder of the
passion that you know and and ignite the passion you
have for this career. Any words, anything else you'd like
to add. I think that that's good for any future therapist.
(11:05):
I would definitely say, just keep going. It's an awesome career.
It's so fulfilling, and um it's challenging at times, but
it's so worth it. People are worth it, and and
so just continue the journey and keep being going to
one another beautiful, beautiful, and never forget as part of
your career. Take care of yourself. Absolutely, it's important. So
(11:29):
I appreciate you so much. Thank you again for your
time on this. You're welcome, thanks for having me. I
appreciate it. I really love what Dr Kavner was saying
about starting from a point of empathy and sharing her
own experiences with her mental health with her students. When
we take her approach working with her students and apply
it to larger systems, this is how we can make
(11:51):
real progress. When we get back from the break, we'll
talk with California Surgeon in General Dr Nadine Burke Harris
and Latin X Therapy podcast create Ariana, alejandri about how
they want to shape our mental health infrastructure moving forward.
(12:13):
We're here today with Dr Nadine Burke Harris, the Surgeon
General of California, and with Adriana Lejandre, the creator of
the Latin X Therapy podcast. Dr Burke Harris, Adriana, Welcome, Wilmer,
take it away. I'm so proud to be here with
you both. Dr Burke Harris. You're the first person to
(12:34):
hold the position of Surgeon General of California. First of all,
super proud that a person of color can lead those
conversations for our state, considering how diverse our state is,
and only we know what affects our communities of color,
and to have a leader that looks like all of
us and sounds like all of us is incredibly important.
(12:55):
So I'm very proud to have you on for this conversation.
So what was it like to be the first in
that position and to give phase with something as big
as the global pandemic? Um It was hard, I will
not lie about that. You know, it's an It's an
interesting situation, I would say, becoming the first certain general
of the State of California for me, has been a
(13:16):
complete dream come true. List for real is my dream job.
I love caring for people, I love caring for communities,
I love helping people be healthier. And then you know
COVID and that was really really intense. I will say
I have never worked so hard in my entire life,
(13:36):
including during my residency. I mean it was really really intense,
but it was also beautiful. People showed up and there
were people working literally around the clock to save lives.
And we saw it among our first responders, among our
health care workers, among just and it felt really special.
(14:01):
And it's not over yet, so we're still working hard,
but it has been I would say a defining experience
for me. I've certainly learned a lot. And you know,
one of the things that was really important to me
is showing up authentically, and you know, as a black woman,
and you know, my Spanish is not that hot, but
anytime I could if I could deliver a message and
(14:24):
then deliver the same message as good as I can
get it Spanish, that was it was more important. Ye
damne California, Okay, ablamos nue So that was that was
you know what, I'd be trying to do a little
bit of that. Amazing, amazing. I first of all incredibly
(14:47):
proud of you, but also incredibly proud to hear you
speak Spanish. It's just it goes to tell you that
there are leaders of our community out there that care
enough to speak not just the language, but understand the
culture or two you know, and I just really really
command you for that. That's unbelievable. There's beautiful and thank
you for sharing a Spanish and please keep speaking as
(15:08):
at least they know I'm trying, even even if it's
not perfect, they can tell that I'm making an effort.
So Adrianna, could you tell us a little bit about
your reaction to Dr Kavner's story, and then Dr Burke
Harris could you do the same. Absolutely, thank you so much.
I think everything that Dr Kavner mentioned really resonated. I
(15:30):
don't work in the school setting, but I work with families.
I work with individuals, and I hear a lot of
stories through our Instagram platform as well, people that share
about what they're going through. And we really did see
the big mental health crisis at the start of the pandemic.
Just about everything was triggering, and the other side that
(15:51):
I saw, because I work with a lot of mental
health professionals of color as well, is burnout and a
lot of fatigue in general, and being in the helping
profession has some burnout. But this just really we had
to stay there, you know, be there for our clients,
and we wanted to, but on the back end, we
were also experiencing confusion and our own emotions. So a
(16:14):
lot of us did get back into our own therapy.
But I think what Dr Kavner mentioned in terms of
becoming an investigator and trying to find her students, as
much as I wish we also as therapists could have
done that, we weren't totally able to with some clients
because there's a certain level of boundaries right in other
(16:36):
settings outside of the school, like private practice settings. So
we did have some clients that didn't come back because
of fear, that didn't want to do tell a therapy
because that was new to them too, and so everything
felt so uncertain and was so uncertain, and that was
valid and it's scary validating uncertainty for a lot of clients.
(16:57):
And there's no manual right that therapists were given to
learn how to deal with the pandemic and the mental
health crisis. But that definitely resonated and it took me
back to March times. So, Dr Burke Harris, what were
your thoughts on Dr Kavner's story and could you speak
a little bit about adverse childhood experiences which are also
(17:18):
known as aces. Yeah, I'll jump in and say that
as a certain general of California, when I was first
looking at the data and the information that was coming
in about COVID and about the pandemic, that was one
of the lowest points for me because I kind of
immediately flashed forward to all of the impacts. And one
(17:41):
of the big guest was as we were getting ready
to do the shelter in place and recognizing what that
would mean in terms of the fact that we had
this huge stressor this huge scary thing, and that the
typical resources that we do to overcome things that are
(18:03):
stressful and scary reach out to the people that we
love right touch base with our family and and connect
with our friends and the people that we trust. So
much of that was being cut off because of the
sheltering place and just because of the pandemic. It was
all about being away from the people that we normally
(18:25):
connect with, and you know, kids not being in school,
all of the above, and that was I remember right
at the beginning of the pandemic because my background as
a pediatrician is on the effects of stress and trauma
and adversity on our health, on children's developing brains and bodies,
(18:48):
and a lot of that we learned from the research
on adverse childhood Experiences, which was this huge study that
was done by the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control
and Prevention, and what they found was that when we
experience stressful or traumatic experiences, especially during childhood, when our
(19:09):
brains and bodies are just developing, that it actually can
change the way our brains and bodies develop and it
can lead to significantly increase risk of mental health conditions,
which we're seeing now with the pandemic, of behavioral health conditions,
substance dependence, other things which we're also seeing, but also
(19:33):
of health concerns later on down the line, things like
asthma and diabetes and heart disease and stroke. Because it's
all connected, right, The brain and the body are all connected.
And what we now understand is that when we experience
something really stressful. It releases a ton of stress hormones
(19:54):
in our bodies, and there are a couple of different
ways that our bodies can calm that down, and part
of it is through our relationships, connecting with people that
we love and trust. Therapy and mental health treatment as
another one. Exercise is another one. And then what we
(20:15):
saw in the pandemic was all of that stuff got
so much harder, and so it's it's not a surprise
some of the trends that we've seen with many, many
more people struggling with their emotional health and well being.
We'll be right back after this break. Welcome back to
Essential Voices A. Brianna, you specialize in working with adults
(20:35):
who have PTSD and trauma. Do you think that you've
witnessed the impact of these ACES on your patients? And
I guess more broadly, how have your patients been responding
to the pandemic in general? Yes, absolutely, I definitely witnessed
all the implications and impact of the pandemic in relation
(20:55):
to the ACES, and I actually integrate a lot out
of psych education and the A study specifically with my clients.
I specialized in trauma, as you mentioned, and this information
was actually a life changer for many of my clients
and the way that they adapted to coping during the pandemic,
because many of them felt invisible, right, like invisible in
(21:20):
terms of, oh, you know, I don't have to worry
about heart disease, I don't have to worry about depression.
Because if it's not affecting them in the now, right,
if they don't see any implication of it, then it's
easier to turn the other way from it. But we
really have to reframe the way that we see therapy,
especially in my culture, people tend to go to it
(21:42):
when they're in a moment of crisis, when it's rock
bottom time. But we can really really help ourselves by
using therapy as a preventative strategy, just normalizing it really
And so I think that when that information has been
brought up in therapy and they're able to become more
(22:03):
aware of it, it kind of becomes real to them
and they're able to recognize it and get more motivated
in their own healing journey because there's something that proves,
you know, if they come from a lineage of trauma,
then there's a high risk of implications and consequences towards
their mental health and health in the now and in
(22:25):
the future. And so that's how I witnessed the impact
of ACES and my clients, and definitely people that had
complex PTSD in their history experienced higher levels of depression
and to a sideality, higher levels of anxiety as well.
During the entire trajectory of the pandemic, many of them
(22:46):
were able to, at least on my case load, we're
able to get to a baseline. But when people come
from intergenerational trauma, wellness has to become a lifestyle versus
just a one and done type of deal. And so
in terms of the question how have my patients been
responding to the pandemic, that's essentially how they really dedicated
(23:07):
themselves to their wellness and their well being, seeing the
connection that, oh, when I took that month off, it
did not go too well. And I tend to work
also on this basis of you know, we come in
weekly when that's necessary, and then when they reach a goal,
we take off a week in the schedule if it's
clinically appropriate, until they graduate to every other week so
(23:28):
that they're able to feel their progress. They can feel
the difference. Dr Burke Harris. So. Dr Kavner was speaking
about the major mental health impact of COVID and remote
learning on her students during her conversation, and as an
expert on these adverse childhood experiences, could you speak to
(23:48):
the long term effect that the pandemic could have on
children and teens. Yeah, I will have to say that
I completely agree with everything that Adrianna just said. An
in fact, this is one of the things that so
I'm a full disclosure, total science nerd, like I'm a
super super a science geek. And one of the things
(24:10):
that the science of adverge childhood experiences and toxic stress
shows us is that, first of all, when we've experienced
adversity in childhood or in our past, right, even though
we may be feeling fine, we may be not noticing anything,
it can make us more vulnerable to the impacts of
(24:34):
other stressors later on down the line. And so when
COVID hits right, we're thinking about the kids who are
experiencing that as an adversity in their day to day
lives and all the changes and all of the disruption,
and then we're also thinking about the adults who are
experiencing all this stress changes disruption in the context of
(24:59):
you know, it's across your whole life course. So this
is an additional stressor that's kind of stacked up on
top of anything that happened in the past. And so
for many people, what they found was that it was
enough to kind of tip them over. But one of
the things that I think, and speaking to what you
mentioned Adriana in terms of there are so many folks
(25:22):
who feel like, I'm not going to the doctor until
it's something terrible, right, And so one of the things
I love to do. I have this red yellow green
chart or green yellow, red, and like green, is what
do I do for self care to keep myself doing fine? Right?
So for me, that's exercise, it's meditation, it's good nutrition.
(25:44):
And then what does it look like when I'm not
doing so hot? Because all of us, all of us
have times when we're doing better and when we're doing worse,
and that's not something to be afraid of. It's normal,
it's life. And so what does not do in so
hot look like? For me? What does yellow look like
(26:04):
for me? Oh, maybe it means that my appetite is
out of control, or maybe it means my mood is
a little bit lower, or I'm having trouble sleeping. What
do I do when I'm feeling that way? Oh? I know, Okay,
I know. I gotta call my one girlfriend who always
gets exactly how I feel and helps me feel validated.
You know, maybe I'm going to exercise a little bit
(26:26):
more as an adult. I'm definitely gonna, you know, lay
off that glass of wine. You know, it's fine when
I'm feeling fine, but when I'm feeling low, it's better
that I don't because that's what helps my brain to
be able to recover. Right. And then you know, what
does red look like like? Oh my goodness, the wheels
have seriously fallen off the cart. I feel terrible. Okay,
(26:47):
what does that look like? How do I recognize it?
How do I know? Oh my goodness, this is the
time when I'm supposed to do the thing. I've got
to go call my therapist. I've got to have a
conversation with someone who I really love and trust. I've
got to consider medications. I've got to whatever it is,
and then that's what helps to bring us back on track.
(27:09):
That's just something I love doing. I really love that green, yellow,
red system. Doctor Birg Harris, and I also love that
it's analogous to a stoplight, because it's an image that
almost everyone can relate to as a physical act of
either you know, slowing down if you see a yellow light,
or speeding up if you're seeing a green light, or
(27:30):
stopping all together when there's a red light. But sometimes
it's hard to be in touch with yourself to look
internally and say, okay, I'm in a red light moment
that means I have to stop and take care of myself.
Whereas if you find yourself in a yellow moment, it's
almost like a warning of hey, it's it's time to
slow down a little bit. And a green light moment, well,
(27:53):
you know, green is gold in this situation. So um
switching gears a bit Adrian that what would you suggest
for folks who are hesitant to try therapy and what
would be your approach if let's say someone comes to
you and it's curious about starting therapy, but they're perhaps
you know, reluctant due to stigma. Ultimately, I think therapy
(28:17):
is a process and a journey per person as well,
and there are people that are very hesitant and afraid.
So if you identify with those feelings. I think a
lot of reflection and even some self help can be beneficial.
Some research, as I mentioned earlier, in terms of who
you envisioning your therapist to be, how you found them,
(28:38):
you know, who you found them from, could be beneficial.
But I think if you're willing to go to therapy,
it's a way to understand yourself more than change anything
and lead you into a whole journey and lifestyle of
wellness and of healing. Thank you, Adrianna and Dr Burke Harris.
What would you say to your patients or friend or
(29:00):
strangers who are considering therapy? For myself as a physician,
one of the things that I've said often to my
patients is to offer them therapy as a resource to
help with some of the other things that they may
not recognize or an issue for example, like we know
that when the body is making a ton of stress
(29:21):
hormones it can affect you know, our diabetes, right, And
so I've had patients who are have diabetes that's out
of control and I say, hey, you know what I
want to get a I want to put a finger
on how we're managing stress and what you're doing and
bring you additional resources there, right, And so I've thrown
it in for all kinds of things, kids who weren't
(29:41):
growing well, kids who were having really severe asthma, all
different things, to again get back to that mind body connection,
because I think so many people think about it just
in terms of am I crazy? Is it my mental health?
And it's like it's part of our total well being? Right,
And so most people recognize, oh, you want to exercise,
(30:03):
you know, exercise that part of your mind that supports
your well being, in your connection to others and calming
down your your stress response. And that's a big part
of it as well. So how can we support the
mental health professionals who in turn are supporting the folks
in this country? Go ahead, Dr burg Harris. Oh yeah,
(30:24):
you guys can tell I'm dying to answer this question, right,
because this is this is my damn man. This is
what I do every day for me, the big picture
and what I am working towards. I have set a
bold goal to cut adverse childhood experiences and toxic stress
in half in a generation. Of course, I said that,
(30:45):
and then COVID happened. So I have my work cut
out for me. But I will tell you is that
Step one is raising awareness and reducing stigma. That's what
number story dot org is all about. It's about raising awareness,
offering people resources, reducing stigma. Step two is doing early
detection because one of the things that Dr Kavner talked
(31:06):
about was how challenging it is to be trying to
reach so many of her kids to try to understand
what they're going through and provide them with the right resources.
And in California we launched an initiative called the ACES
Aware Initiative. And this is before you even get to
a therapist. This is like your regular doctor, you're going
(31:27):
for your check up, right, we're screening for ACES. We've
trained almost twenty thousand healthcare providers to screen for ACES
because what the science shows is that early detection and
early intervention improves outcomes. So that makes everybody's job easier.
And then on top of that, as I mentioned, the
governor is investing four billion dollars incomprehensive mental and behavioral
(31:51):
health for children and youth. And what that means is
a big part of that is providing mental health care
ware kids are in school right and on top of that,
with our safe reopening of schools. We have additional resources
to make sure that educational professionals, teachers, school therapists, folks
(32:18):
like Dr Kavner actually have resources for self care right
self care for those who are caring for our young people.
And so all of this, this is the Surgeon General thing.
Like my whole, my whole thing is to like get
all these pieces and figure out how do you put
the pieces of the puzzle together, because that's public health, right,
(32:41):
That's how we do it. And I'm so excited. I'm
so grateful to be able to be of service in
this moment of need and to be able to show
up my way right authentically and to be able to
reach out to our communities. Adrianna, where are your thoughts? Yeah?
I love that. I love that vision. We need that
(33:03):
vision definitely. And to add I think when I envisioned
an answer for this, the first step for me is
for graduate programs for the curriculum that teaches therapists to
be therapist, such an important part in people's lives. Is
to diversify that curriculum and to also decolonize that curriculum
(33:25):
so that there's less harm that goes on. Because there's
validity in people's pain and in people not wanting to
go to therapy because of previous harm that was caused
in the field. So we recognize that, we honor that,
and we want to change that. But that also has
to change from a national or even global level of recognition,
(33:46):
where this curriculum that prepares therapists for it to be
more representative and be more open to seeing the clients
as people. Alright. So then the next step that I
would say is normalizing mental health overall, as Dr Burke
Harris has emphasized, and so I'll go into step three
(34:07):
is to have mental health care for all. So normalize
it in that sense and a policy sense uh systemic
change also that recognizes farm workers, immigrants, and essential workers
within this infrastructure, within this systemic change, because we know
that many times they're excluded out of a lot of
the bonuses and the policies creating the resources that are
(34:30):
needed to support these vulnerable, the very resilient communities that
help us to keep going and ultimately for communities to
be given spaces to heal and begin. That begins with
dismantling these oppressive systems that cause harm to communities of color.
So uplifting and amplifying professionals of color that are doing
(34:50):
the work. And I don't know exactly how that is,
but I know we need to unite and advocate for
more of that to happen. I just want to point
out Dr Burke Harris, your passion and your energy for
your agenda ahead gives me so much peace. It brings
(35:12):
me so much joy to see someone in a position
of leadership embodying the solution, understanding the language. And I
mean that metaphorically because there is a way that we
have to communicate this and the fact that you're in
the driver's seat it brings me so much joy. So
I'm so so proud to be here to see the
beginning of what I know will be an incredible legacy,
(35:34):
and excited to do more. And Aleanna, do you know
how proud I've been of you for so many years already?
You know, I've seen the evolution of Ariana, you know,
and so many aspects of her career, and it's been
beautiful to see her becomes such a leader as well.
Um m R. I'm floored by this conversation today and
I want to thank both of you, Dr Burke Harris
(35:55):
and Adrianna for being so present and open with us today.
It's been amazing to hear your wisdom. So thank you again,
Oh thank you. It's been our privilege. Thank you so much.
Dr Burke Harris mentioned number story dot org where you
can go to learn more about adverse childhood experiences and
(36:18):
how you are a loved one may have been affected.
You can also check out Adriana's podcast called Latin x
Therapy wherever you listen to your favorite shows. What I
love about both these resources is that they help keep
the conversation about our mental health care going. Yes, and
the more we keep the conversation about mental health going,
the more we challenge this stigma of mental health and
(36:41):
work tours. As society where mental health resources are available
for all, We'll keep learning and growing as we continue
to talk to our essential workers. Next time on Essential
Voices Join us next time to hear us talk to
Denise Frederick, a domestic worker, followed by our roundtable guest
Stina men Apgar, the Culture Change Director at the National
(37:03):
Domestic Workers Alliance. Essential Voices with Wilmer Val Drama is
produced by me m r Riquel, Alison Shano, and Kevin Rotkowski,
with production support from Associate producer Lillian Holman. Executive producers
Wilmer val Drama, Adam Reynolds, Leo Clem, and Aaron Hilliard.
This episode was edited by Sean Tracy and features original
(37:25):
music by Will Risotti. Special thanks this week's essential voice,
Dr Caroline Kavner, and to our thought leaders California Surgeon
General Dr Nadine Burg Harris and the founder of the
Latino Therapy podcast, Adriana Lejndre. Additional thanks to Brandon Piper,
Dennis Saint Rose, Julie Rooney, Talia Fatante, and Quinlin Fitzgerald.
(37:45):
This is a CLAIMER and w V Entertainment production in
partnership with I Heart Radio's Michael Dura podcast Network. For
more podcasts from I Heart, visit the i Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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